School banning party invites unless...

(214 Posts)
Sparklymommy Tue 15-Oct-13 08:53:09

The whole class is invited. How ridiculous! What about if your in a school with three classes for each year group? Do you have to invite the whole year group?!?!

Currently organising a disco for my four children and they have got the invite list down to 66. That's NOT inviting everyone, just the children they want to come. And I'm sure a few extras will be added before the actual day. If we had to invite everyone then that would be the WHOLE SCHOOL plus lots from the dance school. I'm mad, but not completely gaga!

Sirzy Tue 15-Oct-13 08:54:38

I think the point that was being made is that it isn't nice to give out invites at school to all bar a few children which is right IMO.

Personally I think you either need to invite less than half the class or all of the class. To leave out just a handful isn't very pleasant.

bigbrick Tue 15-Oct-13 08:56:10

Not everyone is good friends with their whole class. Why is the school class taken as the group for the child as children are also friends with children not in their class - other school classes, neighbours, hobbies, sports etc. The school doesn't control the kids parties or friendships

PresidentServalan Tue 15-Oct-13 08:56:24

I read the article and I think the guy was asking that party invites not be given out at school if the whole class wasn't invited (that's how I read it but I could be wrong - it was in the Daily Fail!)

gordyslovesheep Tue 15-Oct-13 08:56:45

Actually they have banned them being given out in school ...which seems fair to me

CeliaLytton Tue 15-Oct-13 08:56:57

What do you mean by 'banning'? That children can't give them out in school? If so, I think fair enough. Arrange for them to be given directly to parent before or after school, no need for a grand display of 'YOU are invited but YOU are not invited' within school time.
YABU

mrsyattering Tue 15-Oct-13 08:58:27

it is absolutely ridiculous! invite who your kids want. childen find out soon enough that they can't be everyone's friend. school can't dictate like this to you shock

Sparklymommy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:00:36

Fair enough, but if you only see that child at school then sometimes it's the only way to give out invites. Perhaps it will come to the point where people will post invites, but then I don't know all the addresses of my children's friends. Or all the e-mail addresses. I don't know all the parents. I can see that it isn't nice to be left out, but its not always possible to invite everyone. And as someone else said, what about friends from other places? Half my children's invites are for children outside of school.

mrsyattering Tue 15-Oct-13 09:00:37

I agree with handing to the parents though

CeliaLytton Tue 15-Oct-13 09:02:08

If you see a child at school you must also see them before and after school. So hand to the parent/carer. Problem solved.

gordyslovesheep Tue 15-Oct-13 09:03:24

No ones saying you HAVE to invite the whole class though ...read the article. He is simply preventing invites being handed out in class

Pagwatch Tue 15-Oct-13 09:05:10

If you see the parent at school, ask for thir address or email address. Or ask a mutual friend. Or ask the teacher to give the parent a note to call you...

<wonders why this is complicated>>

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 09:05:23

school can't dictate like this to you
I would imagine that the school is perfectly entitled to ban the use of its premises to facilitate social arrangements scheduled to take place outside school.

nomorecrumbs Tue 15-Oct-13 09:05:37

Initially I was against this, then I thought of school as like a workplace.

Well, all colleagues are invited to work parties which happen off work premises, why can't schoolchildrens' parties be the same?

If children want a private party they can still do so, just don't hand out the invites at school.

Sparklymommy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:06:19

It's not our school, just to clarify. It's in the news review on LK. I just think its absurd. My children will be taking in invites this week. I expect them to give them out before/after school. I don't often go to the school so won't be overseeing it and as I said, I don't know every parent. Bizarre!

MadeOfStarDust Tue 15-Oct-13 09:06:21

So what age to kids then get to realise that the sun does not shine from their bum and that sometimes they will not be invited to things that someone else is??

treaclesoda Tue 15-Oct-13 09:06:45

When I read these things I just wonder why has this suddenly become an issue now? When I was at primary school it was the norm to give out party invitations at school, no one thought anything of it, and there was no real drama. Some kids went to one kids party, others went to other kids parties, it all worked out ok.

For my kids parties, if I had to give party invitations directly to parents, I could only invite the kids who have SAHM's because I wouldn't know their granny/granda/auntie/childminder at the school gates. And I certainly don't know where they live.

Tailtwister Tue 15-Oct-13 09:07:17

At DS's school the teacher won't distribute party invites into book bags unless it's for the whole class. We have a parent contact list with everyone's address/email on, so if you want to do a smaller party you can. I think that's a very good way of dealing with things.

However, you won't spare children the disappointment of not being invited because parties are talked about afterwards. DS mentioned one he wasn't invited to and I just explained that sometimes it's not possible to invite everyone. He seemed happy with that.

Theas18 Tue 15-Oct-13 09:07:36

They are only banning giving out of invites in school aren't they . This is surely to avoid the " everyone else but my child was invited" type postings ( and I assume also having the teacher/TA given them out/put them in book bags is a bind too taking work time from them- if everyone gets one then it's just a pile by the door saying " billys party please take one") .

They aren't making you " friends with everyone" just if you want specific kids you should invite them yourself

Small parties really should be a 1 to 1 invite anyway?

fluffyraggies Tue 15-Oct-13 09:08:02

Yes, they are saying invite who you want, but if you are inviting lots of children from one class but not all then please do it discretely to save the feelings of those left out. Not much to ask.

You wouldn't send your kids in with a bag of sweets to proudly hand out to only 20 of the 25 kids in their class and leave out the ones they don't like.

ToggyD Tue 15-Oct-13 09:08:24

I might start a thread about this in chat. I'll invite:

Gordyslovesheep
Celialytton
Mrsyattering
PresidentServalan
Bigbrick
and Sirzy, to post on it.

ToggyD Tue 15-Oct-13 09:09:28

And Fluffy
Theas
Tailtwister
Teacle
and Stardust

ToggyD Tue 15-Oct-13 09:10:17

And Pagwatch
Sooty
and Nomorecrumbs

Lottiedoubtie Tue 15-Oct-13 09:10:33

I imagine they will realise it once they hear from X that they are going to Y's party but they are not.

That seems like a normal way to find out.

What seems cruel is Y being allowed to hold court in the cloakroom (or wherever) saying 'one for you, one for you, oh, yes and you I love you, but no not you, you're one of the two people I've decided to leave out....'

MidniteScribbler Tue 15-Oct-13 09:11:12

I do the same as Tailtwisters teacher above. Unless it's for the whole class, then it needs to be done away from the classroom. It's not that people need to invite the whole class, but it stops the big display that often goes along with the invitation process. Yes, I'm looking at you woman who thought she'd send a clown to stand at the door of the classroom to ask each student's name and hand them a balloon only if they were invited. Four students out of thirty were not invited. Rude bitch.

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 09:14:06

I don't see why teachers and TAs should have to distribute invitations. They have enough to do already.

SHarri13 Tue 15-Oct-13 09:14:23

Isn't in a book bag far more discreet than on the playground with everyone observing?

Sparklymommy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:15:11

I don't do school run, my husband does. And about half the school aren't dropped off or picked up by a parent. They go on school buses. It's not a problem at our school, as I said. I just think its craziness. I understand its difficult when children aren't invited, but to go so far as to ban invites? Just seems extreme.

WestieMamma Tue 15-Oct-13 09:15:20

I think it's a good thing. My daughter has finished with school now but ib her 15 years of school she wasn't invited to a single party. Not one. The hurt and damage that has done to her is irrepairable and not a lesson she should have been learning at school.

treaclesoda Tue 15-Oct-13 09:15:26

but yes, on the general party theme, I detest the idea of inviting 25 children out of a class of 26. It's a select few, or else its everyone as far as I'm concerned.

My dd got an invitation earlier in the year where the whole class had been invited except one little girl. DD refused to go, because she thought it was horrible to leave the other girl out. It was a massive 3 hour party at a soft play place, so it was something she knew she would enjoy, but she just felt it wasn't right. She was only 6 at the time, and if a 6 year old can see how cruel it is, you'd hope that a parent could. hmm

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:15:56

Midnite - That is awful.

But yes, good manners should be encouraged around this. But kids have to learn they won't get invited to everything. It is life. And why should a child invite a child who is perhaps bullying them to their party?

It really isn't a teacher's job to hand out party invites. If they don't want to be party to the kind of mean exclusions you often see on party lists, then good for them I say.

Sirzy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:16:33

That is awful Midnite!

Sirzy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:17:40

Treacle - what a lovely little girl you have smile

treaclesoda Tue 15-Oct-13 09:19:01

I must say, I was very proud of her. There's no way I was as mature as that at the age of 6!

Sparklymommy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:20:57

midnite words fail me! That's horrendous.

I understand about being discreet. I also understand why these rules come into force if people are so cruel as in midnites post. People need to use common sense!

DoJo Tue 15-Oct-13 09:22:46

The problem is that if schools allow/facilitate the giving out of invitations, then it is hard for them to stay neutral when it comes to any fall-out. Not getting involved seems to be the best way to reduce the chances of the teachers becoming embroiled in any more than they absolutely have to.

Pagwatch Tue 15-Oct-13 09:23:06

And let's just be honest - its often the same child being let out over and over again. And not ususual for that child to have issues of some description.

So I think it is a great thing.
Get off your arse and find some contact details.

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:24:05

I agree with schools not distributng invitations. But the children can give them out themselves.

Please can I come too Toggy! I think from yr1 onwards the child can just give the invite themselves. I tell mine that if they make a big song and dance about giving invites then they will have to explain to others why they aren't invited (I always make sure their close friends are invited). If they do it discretely then others will be less likely to ask.

In reception I can see that book bags are the best way, still no need to make a big fuss in lesson time. The clown thing is awful though, hope there were some conscientious objectors among the invitees.

GooseyLoosey Tue 15-Oct-13 09:25:50

This is a private school (near me) and I am sure that the head is merely doing what the parents have asked.

It is rather odd though as the children are taught in different classes for maths at least and there is boys games and girls games. I wonder if they have to ask the whole of each class they are in?

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 09:25:55

Agree with Pagwatch

Make your own social arrangements exercising a bit of sensitivity and decency and leave the school out of it.

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:26:55

Pag - tat child will still know. Other kids in the class will talk about the party. There is no way realistically to hide that a child wasn't invited to a party.

Personally I blame the rise of big parties. Children's birthday parties, except for the very rich, used to be fairly small affairs with only a small group of close friends invited to a birthday tea and a few party games.

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 09:27:34

I don't think the invitations should be given out on school premises at all.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

treaclesoda Tue 15-Oct-13 09:31:13

someone earlier mentioned there being a contact list for all parents, is that common? Its not something our school would do. Just wondering, because I really would have no way of getting contact details for some of the kids in my daughter's class. Whilst I agree with not humiliating children who aren't invited, I also think it would be a shame for a child not to be able to invite a friend because they have no contact details outside of school. Its quite a balancing act.

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:33:02

There is no way I would want my contact details going out to every parent in a class. Would be fine if all parents were nice reasonable people, but in some areas, that is not the case.

Scholes34 Tue 15-Oct-13 09:37:09

We always did our own contacts sheet in primary school. It just needs a couple or so parents to co-ordinate it. It helps if you have at least one girl and one boy from the class between you. You can work out how many children are in the class so you know when you've covered everyone.

It takes time, but you need to approach all parents, grandparents, carers dropping off, send a note home with a childminder and in time you'll accumulate a list.

The criteria for being on the list is that you don't object to having your details circulated to the other parents. The completed list is the one thing the school was happy to put into book bags, but this was in the days before everyone had an e-mail address. Now you can simply e-mail it to the list . . . along with your party invite.

Twelve years down the line, I'm still using the same reception class list for phone numbers for working out lift-sharing, invitations, etc.

Someone just has to put in a little effort.

Scholes34 Tue 15-Oct-13 09:38:19

coldwinter - then you wouldn't be on our list. I assume, though, that you'd easily suss out who you want to get to know and who you'd want to invite to your parties, so that's not a problem.

BanjoPlayingTiger Tue 15-Oct-13 09:39:33

Having been the child that was always excluded I think this is a fantastic idea! Until you have been the child who just isn't invited to parties then you have no idea how much this affects you. Not just in school but throughout life.

I could not agree more with Pagwatch

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:39:36

Email addresses would be fine. But when I think of some of the parents I have met, I would not want them to have my home address or telephone number, if I could help it. You do know there are plenty of anti social, aggressive parents out there?

TheCrackFox Tue 15-Oct-13 09:42:34

The last 4 parties I have had have been at home - I am not having 30 children in my house, my limit is 12.

My eldest son was bullied by one particular boy - was I honestly expected to invite him to the party?

The school can't give out details but class reps organise it themselves. Most of the time it is easy to get names in reception, we have names and e-mail address. Any who weren't around at pick up time we sent a note to either via book bag or via our children. Obviously up to parents to want to be included but it does make it easier to keep track of who is in the class etc and less likely to accidentally leave someone off a full class party because your child has never mentioned the child.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 09:45:11

I don't know the addresses, emails or phone numbers if the majority of parents in my ds's class at school and even less so at dds school (where dh teaches so does not want our details circulated)

I think it's a ridiculous policy that will just discriminate against working parents like myself who often don't do the school run.

MidniteScribbler Tue 15-Oct-13 09:45:36

12 out of 30 is fine. 29 out of 30 is not.

EBearhug Tue 15-Oct-13 09:45:50

There have been plenty of threads here where someone's DC has been the one in the class who hasn't been invited, so I can see where it's coming from. That doesn't mean it is always a practical solution.

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 09:46:21

Fine. You can choose not to be on a contact list but make your details known to like minded parents. The school should be kept out of party invitations and certainly shouldn't facilitate children's exclusion.

MrsCampbellBlack Tue 15-Oct-13 09:47:49

I know the school in question well and it is an old policy and fully supported by the vast majority of parents.

I think many schools have the same policy.

Sirzy Tue 15-Oct-13 09:48:22

I think it's a ridiculous policy that will just discriminate against working parents like myself who often don't do the school run.

Of course, its better for children to be discriminated against as long as things aren't made a little bit harder for parents!

ginslinger Tue 15-Oct-13 09:49:22

am I too late for the invite to the thread? My internet broke and it's not my fault.

Alexandrite Tue 15-Oct-13 09:49:26

Probably already been mentioned but the school in question is a private school, so we are not talking 30 kids per class. He probably did this in response to someone handing out invitations on the school playground to 14 kids out of a class of 15 or something, with the one left out standing watching the children flapping their invitations around!

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:49:37

I do think if a child is unpopular with virtually all their classmates, then they need some support to address the issues behind this - I am talking about NT children here only. Often it is poor social skills or that the child is a bully. Both need to be addressed.

I know as a young teenager I really struggled and was a clear outsider. I couldn't fathom the rules teenage girls operated by, and so instead hung out with the boys.

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:51:05

Alex - And what if the child not invited is a bully? At my primary school there was one sweet lookng girl who bullied all the girls. The teachers thought she was lovely. I would not have invited her to my party in a million years.

ginslinger Tue 15-Oct-13 09:51:26

On a more serious note, DC1 went to school 30 years ago and this rule was in place then and we did things like ask for addresses, phone numbers or gave them to parent at gate. It seems that we have a myriad of ways off communicating with people now yet so many struggle to do it.

Floggingmolly Tue 15-Oct-13 09:52:41

This has been the rule at our school for years. The school are not attempting to exert control over your party guests; they're simply refusing to allow the invitations to be given out on their premises, when some children who never get invited anywhere find it a source of humiliation and upset.
Stop being hysterical and get your facts straight hmm

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 09:53:39

After reception, the child can themselves just hand out party invites. What is the big deal? And if they are not being discrete about it, then that needs to be dealt with as poor behaviour. Children should be taught good manners.

fluffyraggies Tue 15-Oct-13 09:54:35

But no one is saying you HAVE to invite this one child.

The idea is being put forward that in order to safeguard against situations where children are being hurt that you should find an alternative way than handing out invites in class.

Just because something has always been done a certain way, and just because it's easy doesn't make it right.

RayABlokeIUsedToKnow Tue 15-Oct-13 09:55:08

Can I just clarify the school don't give a shiny shit who you choose to invite to your child's party. Clearly they are not telling you to invite children who your children aren't friends with! They are simply saying that they don't want to waste time dealing with the fall out out of invitations being given out at school.

As a teacher I have witnessed some really horrible party invitation giving out as described by the poster ^ ^ above. One for you, one for you, no you aren't my friend, one for you. I have also dealt with a very upset little girl that was the only girl not invited in the class.

I now take the invitations and put them in book bags discretely. The children (y1/2) don't tend to look in their book bags until they are home and this takes away the handing out 'drama'.

MidniteScribbler Tue 15-Oct-13 09:55:10

Children should be taught good manners.

Yes. It should be taught to them by their parents.

But seeing as how there are so many parents willing to exclude one or two children from a children's birthday party, I don't think there's too much hope of their children learning anything about appropriate manners.

Midnite that clown idea is horrible and tantamount to bullying if only 4 children were so conspicuously excluded!

This is not a new story though is it, its an old, old thing that at least half primary schools probably do, that's been turned into a news story by the Daily fail. Its only about the handing out of invites, not about who is invited. Apart from anything why should teachers have to take time out to police the handing out of invites or deal with the fall out if it being done in a Prima donna fashion.

fluffyraggies Tue 15-Oct-13 09:56:07

My last post was to folk saying why should i invite the class bully.

It's not always the class bully getting left out.

gamerchick Tue 15-Oct-13 09:57:23

Unless you have a kid who never gets invited you will struggle to understand the issue.

I've seen my 6 yr old have invites waved in his face.. I've had him come out of school breaking his heart time after time because they've all been invited except him.. he's been invited to one party in all his time at school (year 3) and he loved it and never in nursery.

I understand why he isn't invited ever but he doesn't and I would be really grateful if this was brought in to the school but I don't expect it.

WestieMamma Tue 15-Oct-13 09:57:42

In my experience it's nearly always the children with SN who are excluded and also, in my experience, that exclusion is normally driven by the birthday child's parent not the child.

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 09:58:03

Why should children be allowed to use the school premises to hand them out at all?

Coupon Tue 15-Oct-13 09:58:32

YABU. If the school want to keep things inclusive on their premises then that's a good thing.

WestieMamma Tue 15-Oct-13 09:59:20

gamerchick I watched my daughter's best friend hand out invites to everyone in the playground except my daughter. My daughter was heartbroken. Her friend said that she wanted to invite her but her mum said she couldn't.

Sirzy Tue 15-Oct-13 10:01:47

Some adults are truly horrible and encouraging that sort of behaviour in their children is awful. It also shows exactly why things like party invites need to be kept as far out of the class as possible, to protect the feelings of the children who are always the victims of parents/pupils lack of consideration.

gamerchick Tue 15-Oct-13 10:04:40

Westie judging by some of the behaviour by parents regarding my son I really wouldn't be surprised it's parent driven. In fact it would explain one smug look I got from a mother once who was dishing out invites.

I want to do a party for his next birthday but don't know who to invite sad

My daughter goes to school on the bus and we have small birthday parties at home or special outings, also with limited numbers. Oddly enough she knows where her friends live, so we deliver the invites in person grin (Actually we do this because her birthday is at the start of term, so we want to give the invites out in the holidays, but still grin ) .

Reception kids are getting to know each other, so I assume that is where the problem lies, and where the whole class party thing comes in too, but by Year 1 and beyond if you're having a small party, won't you tend to actually know the kids and have met their parents because the kids play together outside school? confused

fluffyraggies Tue 15-Oct-13 10:09:05

Honestly - if you really haven't the time (and i appreciate this) or the inclination to find out the email addresses or phone numbers of the children that you want to invite, then perhaps it's time to accept that your child can't have loads of their class at a party.

A class of children at school is a delicate dynamic of lots of growing little personalities, all gathered together every day to LEARN. They're not all gathered together to make it handy when it comes to party invites.

It's heartbreaking to see the faces of the children being left out due to stupid recent playground spats, or because they come to school in scruffy clothes etc etc. Especially if you know, for eg. that that child is currently having a shit time at home, and school is a refuge for them.

How can anyone say my convenience as a working mum is more important than those children's feelings, or that those children have to just 'take it on the chin' as that's life!?

angry

treaclesoda Tue 15-Oct-13 10:09:43

I'm not sure that kids do play together outside of school very much, When parents are working during the week they usually want to keep their weekends as family time, My dd doesn't go to friends houses nearly as much as I did at that age. So most of her party invitations come from kids who we don't actually know outside of school.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 10:10:26

My child dies go to a private school, is SN & does miss out because I work when parent social events take place & because some parents think he's a naughty kid

But this rule would just make things worse for us.

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 10:12:14

Great post fluffy

Leopoldina Tue 15-Oct-13 10:12:56

Westie, that's the most upsetting thing I've heard. What kind of morons are these? what sort of appalling behaviour are they reinforcing? your poor little girl. That makes me ache.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 10:13:15

Also he misses out because we live away from where most of his friends live so he doesn't see them outside school.

sue52 Tue 15-Oct-13 10:13:46

YABU. It is an excellent idea. There have been so many threads on here about upset children, it is good to see head making a stance against such petty behaviour.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 10:14:37

Not just the time/inclination but the confidence to approach someone to ask for their details.

gamerchick Tue 15-Oct-13 10:14:50

Did you speak to the mother Westie? Your daughter must have been devastated. sad

NoComet Tue 15-Oct-13 10:15:08

DD has a lovely DF, with a non English speaking mother, who comes on the bus!

School is the only place they can exchange party, play date invites and hopefully her, utterly dippy, English father reads them.

DeWe Tue 15-Oct-13 10:15:52

I'm not sure that banning the invites in school will actually solve the problem. In fact, it might increase it. A parent who knows the teachers will notice that they're leaving out one person, may well be happy to do it when it's unseen-and maybe they can always claim "I did send it, maybe your email was wrong".
If a teacher noticed one out of a class was missed out, then they could, and possibly should comment to the parent-it may have been an accident anyway.

Also I suspect you'll also find that the children do things like stand by the gates to give out the invites. And they'll talk about it in school. Given them out discretely in the playground often doesn't work because it only takes one child to jump up and down excited and they can all come running round asking if they have an invite. Slipping them into bookbags is actually quite discrete.

Then you have the issue of the parent who doesn't come into school/isn't in the clique so no one has their contact details so the child then can't be invited. Surely it will increase that.

I think saying half the class or less, or whole class is fine.

ilovesooty Tue 15-Oct-13 10:17:13

The school is not there to facilitate your child's social arrangements outside school, much less be a party to some of the horrible exclusions described on this thread.

Leopoldina Tue 15-Oct-13 10:17:14

gamer, invite the kids he likes from school (and friends from outside school). Don't get caught up in the other parents' games - because the thing that surely is most likely to get them to issue return invitations and understand is seeing how he behaves, rather than them imagining it.
I

NoComet Tue 15-Oct-13 10:18:55

Also, I'm not on face book or in the mum's clique so school gate was my one interaction with the other mum's too.

Seriously notes and invites will be passed round at school and parties and sleep overs discussed and DCs upset.

Just as I'd love an invite to some of the other mum's events, but it won't ever happen.

fluffyraggies Tue 15-Oct-13 10:20:38

pictures - i see what you are saying (I'd have that problem too). Perhaps ask the class teacher or TA for help with getting the info?

dewe - ''I think saying half the class or less, or whole class is fine. - yes, i think this too. An easy way to stop just 1, 2 or 3 children being left out.

Another whose children go on the bus so I dot. Know the other parents or their contact details. I also can't give them out or receive myself so this new rule would leave my children out.
Luckily for my children I couldn't handle a party with a whole class so we now just do a treat with one friend each. I do know their best friends so that's easier.

HexU Tue 15-Oct-13 10:21:58

I don't know a lot of the other parents - lots of working parents so lots of childminders/GP drop off or before and after clubs.

I've approached a few parents directly when DC have asked to set something up and been shouted in very unpleasant and aggressive way and I'm a very polite person, DC have written notes with my permission and phone no to set things up and been ignored, and when a DC had been ill and eldest wasn't sure she had invite texted with phone number given for that DC party return to be told off for not having deleted the number and how dare I use it to get in touch.

So I prefer to go through teachers.

I assumed at first that the teachers discretely handed the invites out but a few years of eldest begging for party turned out they were publicly handed out at end of day and she wasn't being invited because she wasn't having parties and she was sitting there feeling left out and upset.

We've also had our well behaved DS not invited because his year is cliquey and I'm not in with them so he doesn't get to go to his closest friends parties. I'm sure if it was completely outside school DS would notice less.

I hate giving parties with non rsvping, rsvping then not turning up, turning up with uninvited siblings and expecting us to cater for them to but we do it so the DC feel they fit in at school.

So maybe it's not such a bad idea - perhaps the pressure to have big expensive whole class parties which then require venues to host them would fall away.

WestieMamma Tue 15-Oct-13 10:23:13

Did you speak to the mother Westie? Your daughter must have been devastated. sad

No I didn't. For some unknown reason she hated me and used to completely blank me and turn her back on me if I so much as said hello. God knows why.

pigletmania Tue 15-Oct-13 10:26:02

Well arty invites should not be given out in school time, hand them out on collection after school away from the classroom

HexU Tue 15-Oct-13 10:26:03

I think saying half the class or less, or whole class is fine.

Yea we've done whole class and when DC picked an expensive venue one sex. This does require a venue setting as couldn't have that many DC in the house.

Once eldest hit KS2 have done much smaller group across year, 2 classes, and held it at our house but they were old enough to be very discrete handing out invites.

pigletmania Tue 15-Oct-13 10:27:22

Westie tats so bad, some mothers are like overgrown children!

pigletmania Tue 15-Oct-13 10:29:14

Westie do you think it was because you have ASD? Even if she knew and that was the reason, what a horrid thing to do. Karma to her not her poor dd!

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 10:30:18

How can you hand them out on collection when a third if the children are collected at 3.30pm, a third do clubs and are collected at 4pm, & a third go to after school care until 5pm

My ds has always handed his out at break time or at the end if the day himself or when in reception the ta put them in the book bags.

However he did require help to do this for ages probably due to his undiagnosed SN.

Sirzy Tue 15-Oct-13 10:32:07

That is why lists of parents contacts is by far the most sensible way.

It shouldn't be down to children feeling alienated because others are giving them out and they are never getting one.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 10:41:23

There are lots of parents in ds's school who can't have their details on general lists though. Off the top of my head the psychiatric dr, social worker & several teachers spring to mind.

HexU Tue 15-Oct-13 10:44:27

Westie do you think it was because you have ASD?

Might not be my DS is NT and well behaved and I'm very normal have even been described as friendly and I'm polite - but I'm not in the clique mothers in his year. My face doesn't fit.

I've fitted in other places and none of the other year groups have an issue with me.

I expect we have the same problem Westie - it's them not us and bizarrely they must believe they can influenced their DC choice of friends in this manner.

ginslinger Tue 15-Oct-13 10:53:52

I don't see why a list of parents and their email addresses can't be issued. For people with privacy concerns they open a gmail address which can then be set up to forward mail to their main account. It could be explained clearly that this is purely for social contacts and no 'business' be discussed

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 10:56:25

What's. gmail address? Is it a bit like hotmail?

WestieMamma Tue 15-Oct-13 10:59:23

Westie do you think it was because you have ASD?

Even I didn't know I had AS back then. It would account for me not interacting much in the playground but I can't see how it would lead to the open hatred. I could be wrong but the impression I got was that she thought we were beneath her and also that she wanted her daughter to be best friends with her friend's daughter and she was really angry that this was spoilt by my daughter existing.

ginslinger Tue 15-Oct-13 10:59:25

yes, or any web based email.

KepekCrumbs Tue 15-Oct-13 11:13:50

I remember a poster on here saying her son with cp, a wheelchair user had never received a party invitation. Until the one for a sleepover which was then withdrawn, which she wrote about. Heartbreaking.

Including children with additional needs is part of learning to be socially inclusive surely.

comingalongnicely Tue 15-Oct-13 11:47:00

People at work go out in different groups & not everyone is invited. It's still arranged at work as that is the one piece of common ground. It's the same with school surely?

Why on earth would anyone want to give their email address or phone number to 30 randoms? Just because little Timmy gets on with Jenny it doesn't mean you want to deal with his parents in any way beyond a nod at the gate & telling them what time to pick him up from the party.

Would there be an issue with handing an envelope addressed to a parent for your DC to give to their DC - that way the kids are out of the loop & not taunting/flaunting?

As for "socially inclusive", in some situations maybe, but I don't think you should dictate to kids who they have to invite to their party.

Dubjackeen Tue 15-Oct-13 11:53:03

A clown at the door, handing out invitations to all but four children, having asked their names, Midnight Scribblerwords fail me!

coldwinter Tue 15-Oct-13 11:54:46

I think if I was a teacher I would have been so angry, I would have escorted the clown off the school premises. Some parents are idiots.

kerala Tue 15-Oct-13 11:56:26

My two are small group types anyway. I invited all the girls in DD1s class one year in the interests of being "fair"- never again. It was a nightmare as we have parties at home, half the girls there DD either had little to do with and was indifferent to and a couple she actually didn't like (the worst behaved being the pretty/clever/precocious doctors daughter even the entertainer described her as "spirited" which was being polite).

From now on they invite 6ish guests, as there are 15 girls in the class, some of the guests are from other classes so actually the majority are "left out". My dds don't seem to give 2 hoots when they are not invited to other peoples parties think some people do overestimate the effect on kids. That said I appreciate never being invited to anything would be upsetting.

ringaringarosy Tue 15-Oct-13 11:59:40

i think its rubbish,i wouldnt encourage my kids to invite people they dont like,and i wouldnt want my kids at a party they werent really wanted at either.

ringaringarosy Tue 15-Oct-13 12:00:42

there is a boy in my sons class who is never invited to anything and tbh i can see why,i wouldnt want him at my party!

pigletmania Tue 15-Oct-13 12:18:51

I know Westie just thinking of any reasons. Dd 6 has ASD and that kind of thing worries me. She just sounds like a nasty woman, I feel for her poor dd having such a toxic mother

facedontfit Tue 15-Oct-13 12:20:03

My daughter had her party, all girls in her year invited (8), including her best friend. Five days later best friend hands out her invites at school (I'm not there, best friends mother is) to all girls in year apart from my daughter shock

A month previous father of best friend had been spoken to by the head teacher and chair of governors about the way he spoke to my daughter in the playground before school. angry angry Yes, I am still murderous.

pigletmania Tue 15-Oct-13 12:23:10

Oh Westie helicopter mother trying to social,engineer her dd friends, I see. I have been on mumsnet for a while, and have read shocking things that partie mums have done. Westie you have done nothing wrong, it's her!

pigletmania Tue 15-Oct-13 12:35:47

The behaviour of these parents is shock

MistressIggi Tue 15-Oct-13 12:46:17

Glad I'm not a primary school teacher. I assume they have enough to do without thinking of discreet ways to hand out invites.
Don't get the idea either that children should never have to have someone they don't want at their parties - adults certainly do, think of the wedding threads on here! I don't mean ask the one who is bullying them, but ask the shy or less popular child? Yes I think they should.

lainiekazan Tue 15-Oct-13 12:49:43

Mixed feelings about this.

The people going on about "parent lists" - get real.

Those saying "all should be included" - nuts. Parties come in all shapes and sizes. Some people spend a lot of money for a smaller group to do an activity; some have parties at home [and don't want guests who might wreck the joint]; some have the big community centre disco thing and can be more flexible on numbers. But - every case is different.

Of course, leaving out one child is not on. But this would still happen if the invitations were issued "secretly".

Of course being left is painful. And I have been there - at all ages! But banning the handing out of invitations at school will not stop it.

sashh Tue 15-Oct-13 12:52:56

People at work go out in different groups & not everyone is invited. It's still arranged at work as that is the one piece of common ground. It's the same with school surely?

Many many years ago I was working at a hospital in city A, I was working my notice to move to both a new hospital and a new city, city B.

One person in the department in city A was getting married just after I left. But he made sure before he left that he handed out wedding invitations to everyone in the department except me.

It was meant to hurt.

The funny thing about it was that I would not have been able to go had I been invited, too far and no transport after I moved but that everyone else assumed that everyone had been invited.

I kept being asked about the invite because people were making arrangements to car share etc. A few people said, "oh he must not have got to you yet".

Nope, he invited 20+ people but not me. He ended up looking like a twat.

I was late 20s and thought the whole thing was childishly funny.

If I had been 5 I think I would have been incredibly upset.

Like it or not party invitations can be a tool used to bully and discriminate and that is what the school are trying to stop. They don't care who is invited to a party, they care about bullying.

jacks365 Tue 15-Oct-13 12:53:47

Let me turn this on its head can anyone give me a good reason why teachers and ta's should have to deal with any invitations?

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 15-Oct-13 13:03:28

I don't see why email addresses can't be circulated on a class list.You don't even need the parents names. One parent in ds's class has an email address which is pretty obviously just for this purpose - x'smom at whatever for com.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Tue 15-Oct-13 13:04:30

jacks they shouldn't but if it was hassle free I imagine they would, which implies that it's not.

Alexandrite Tue 15-Oct-13 13:10:57

One good reason for TAs dealing with party invitations is that it is a lot more discreet for them to be put in book bags than for them to be presented on the playground in front of children who didn't get them.

DiamondMask Tue 15-Oct-13 13:18:22

This is what DH wrote recently in respnse to this topic
'There's a debate that's been aired on UK TV recently about whether schools should allow birthday invitations to be handed out in class if not all the children are invited to the party. Obviously there are plenty of sides to that debate, both practical (maybe you can't host a whole class full of kids), particular (do you have to invite the kid that bullies you), moral (why is it any of the school's business - though they're only suggesting a rule for what happens in school) and emotional (isn't 5-11 years of age too young to learn such cruel lessons about exclusion - can't we save those a little longer?) It's drawing in a lot of people because, as every parent knows, there are few injuries that can be done to you that are as painful as seeing your child left out, disappointed, hurt without understanding why... As the parent of a little girl (aged 9) who received her only ever invitation to a school friend's party five years ago the discussion hit me hard. I know at school she must hear the children talking about parties, who went, what they wore. She can't ask me why she's not invited, and honestly, if she could I wouldn't know what to tell her - I can imagine few more difficult conversations. DD has her own birthday parties and I'm more grateful than I can say that each year six or seven little girls turn up and light up her day for a few hours. It's frightening to think how much I'd pay them to come if that were necessary and an option. I understand the reasons she's not invited. People are awkward around her disabilities, worried they might have to cope with something, worried perhaps that we might just leave her for them to look after or that the presence of her carer would spoil things... I understand all that and I can't condemn it. But I think that when those girls are grown, if they could look back at their parties and remember DD was there - they'd feel better about themselves, about their parents, and they'd be better people. So perhaps those mothers could think of my daughter as an opportunity rather than a problem.
I know that the hard lessons have to be learned, that they can't be put off forever... but doctors and statistics tell us that DD is unlikely to ever be an adult, and for me, knowing all the shit she has to put up with and that she's already had to come to terms with... I'd rather see her life punctuated by parties than by disappointments. Bit of a ramble. Sorry.'

Spinkle Tue 15-Oct-13 13:29:24

My son has ASD and has never had an invitation. Parents hand them out surreptitiously (but badly) in front of me. Since he doesn't realise it doesn't matter but makes me feel terrible. Really terrible.

I have not been brave enough to have a party for him. He finds loud music difficult at times. What if no one came? How would he ever get over that?

It's not pleasant to be excluded. He's excluded because of something he has. Not his choice to be autistic. But their choice to exclude him.

Yeah. Keep that shit out of school.

bigbrick Tue 15-Oct-13 13:36:34

I'm not sure what ASD is but when I had a party with a child of special needs invited I asked the mum what I could do to make it easier for her child to have a good time. She said he needed a large mirror to look in and this what I set up. She said he wasn't normally invited and I said my dd was his friend so she would be happy he was at her party.

HopLittleFroggiesHopSkipJump Tue 15-Oct-13 13:43:21

The school in question is a private school with very small classes if this is the same article.

Coupon Tue 15-Oct-13 13:47:39

ASD = Autistic Spectrum Disorder

bigbrick Tue 15-Oct-13 13:56:18

Thanks Coupon for explaining

comingalongnicely Tue 15-Oct-13 14:02:12

So are Teachers & TA's dishing these out or are the kids just giving them out?

School staff shouldn't be involved, it's not their job. Kids should hand them out.

Someone up a few raised a good point - we sometimes did expensive things like take them all to laserquest & then McD's afterwards. No way would that happen for more than 4/6 kids.

It's not nice to not be invited, but it's life. Same as losing at games or competitions. Never mind the kids, there seem to be quite a few adults that haven't learnt this yet!!

DiamondMask Tue 15-Oct-13 14:09:02

You seem to have missed the point comingalong that its often the same kids, often those with disabilities, who never ever get an invite. Life has already shat on them, should the parents of their peers rub it in. Or perhaps should people reading this actually think 'you know, that disabled kid never gets invited maybe i will be the one to make an effort'.

Or just say 'tough shit kids, and it's going to get worse'

DiamondMask Tue 15-Oct-13 14:10:22

But long as it's not your child then I suppose 'I'm alright Jack' is a attitude to have hmm

kerala Tue 15-Oct-13 14:13:45

But I'm not sure children are that upset? With mine if they are not going it doesn't exist they don't think that party "applies" to them and they get on with stuff that does. Wonder if alot of the upset is over thinking by parents. Although agree leaving 1 or 2 out of a class invite is not on.

reelingintheyears Tue 15-Oct-13 14:14:26

I agree with the school, ask after school or e mail or ask the teacher to put them in book bags.
It is exclusive and can be used to bully and I've seen it done with my own eyes.

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 14:14:38

In reception- yr 1 it's usually the TA

I n juniors its the kids

Our school is very good & will pass all sorts on such as when ds left his phone at his friends house it got left at reception for me so he didn't get in trouble for having it at school.

There is no way either of my two would have had any parties if they couldn't give invites out at school. I know ds doesn't get invited to a lot, but at least he gets something, a small party if his own most years.

labelwriter Tue 15-Oct-13 14:16:17
Spinkle Tue 15-Oct-13 14:17:18

D'you know, my ASD done has taught me so much about life and myself. I have scraped myself up from the depths of despair and worked wonders with the boy. He works incredibly hard too.

He genuinely brings out the best in those around him. His classmates are always pleased to see him, but goose who don't know him, like said kiddies' parents, see him as odd, strange, a freak.

That's right, my lovely beautiful son, the freak.

They are scared we will poke in their precious party and drive away. Leaving them to Deal With The Freak. oh course we would not do such a thing.

But of course I will explain to him, 'yeah son, that's life, have some more shit to deal with' hmm 'get used to it'

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 14:17:36

In fact the dd got just as upset when she was deliberately excluded from a sleepover arranged out of school time (group of 6 friends she was the only one not invited) as she was when she was the only one out of the group of 6 not invited to a party where the invites we're given out in school

Spinkle Tue 15-Oct-13 14:18:26

*those

Bloody phone

Picturesinthefirelight Tue 15-Oct-13 14:19:54

Spinkle - ds's last party was like an ASD support group. School nurse said that quite common that they tend to hone in on kids who are like themselves. Probably a generalisation but true in ds's case.

Coupon Tue 15-Oct-13 14:22:12

kerala children will often be aware that someone's having a party. There's a difference between accepting that no-one is invited to everything, and being rarely/never invited to anything.

moldingsunbeams Tue 15-Oct-13 14:26:15

I would welcome them being handed to parents in the playground/school gates and not in school/class.

On one occassion a child who had bullied dd invited everyone in the SCHOOL (small school only 50 odd from reception to year 6) but dd to an exclusive party, private hire of a venue and limos, chocolate fountain etc.

She handed them out like royalty in school and dd had her nose fully rubbed in it, she handed one to every child in class and then said to dd "oh theres not one for you sorryyyy " in a silly voice.

On two more occassions well behaved dd who has sen and another boy with downs syndrome were the only ones without invites. DD was not invited because at the time she didn't really play with anyone, the other boy was not invited because he was very giddy.

I have no issue with half the class and her not being invited or small groups but what kind of parent knowingly leaves one/two children out of a whole class party?

So for that reason I would support school for parents to be given them and not given out in class.

StanleyLambchop Tue 15-Oct-13 14:34:42

I can see the sense in e-mailing invites from a parents POV, but children like to receive invitations, my DD proudly blu-tacks them to her bedroom wall (and she does not get that many invites, before anyone asks!) She also enjoys giving them out, usually in the playground before school. Having your Mum e-mail your friends Mum surely takes some of that enjoyment away??

lainiekazan Tue 15-Oct-13 15:15:11

Dd rarely gets invited to parties. She has no additional needs; she's just not that popular.

I just don't think you can legislate about mean behaviour or popularity. And, as Picturesinthefirelight says, a child might be just as upset, if not more so, about being left out of a party for five children as a party for 20.

When I was 10, in Year 5, a girl in the year above who, along with her friends, bullied me relentlessly, and bullied others too. They hated lots of people, but when it came to her party, she invited everyone from Year Three to Year Six, with the exception of me - she invited all the others she picked on and bullied, but not me. She then got her friends to come up to me through the day and ask if I'd had my invite, and when I said no, they'd say "Oh yeah - she doesn't want you there" or "Oh yeah, she said you'd spoil the party if you were there".

At the end of the day I went to the school gates and her Mum was asking if everyone had their invites yet. I said no and she said "Oh yes... sorry, she didn't want you there" in the nastiest way possible.

I didn't want to go to her party, but it was clear that she - and her mum, who hated me because she hated my parents for being a) English and b) on benefits - had decided to hand out invites in that particular way to rub it in my face, and I was heartbroken over it. Had I been invited... or even just not given an invite... I wouldn't have gone, and would probably have been fine, but to have had it rubbed in my face that I'd been purposely not invited - when everyone in the surrounding years of school was - by not only the girl and her friends, but by the parents too - it was awful.

Whenever I had a party, I'd seek out those I wanted to invite and give them the invite personally, rather than getting the teacher to do it/standing in front of the class. When I did have a big birthday party - I think I was 5 - we did invite the whole class. Leaving one or two people out - unless that person has bullied the child - is disgusting.

comingalongnicely Tue 15-Oct-13 15:57:28

DiamondMask - sorry, thought we were talking about most parents not wanting their kids to invite a class of 30 to a party.

If you want to turn that around to mean "no disabled kids" feel free, no one has said anything like that. hmm And as for my "I'm alright Jack" attitude - shove it up your sanctimonious arse, don't try and turn my comments around to fuel your agenda.

Back on topic -

This is just about one school deciding it's going to try & extend its remit outside of its grounds, for shits & giggles as far as I can see 'cos it won't make any difference!

What are they going to do - confiscate all envelopes addressed to "Parent/Carer of Jimmy Osmond" that they find kids giving to their friends?

Alexandrite Tue 15-Oct-13 16:03:08

Stanley, when your dd is handing out invitations in the playground are there children nearby who have not been invited?

jacks365 Tue 15-Oct-13 16:07:08

Coming along nicely all this school is saying is that unless you are inviting the whole class they do not want to be involved at all ie they do not want to hand out invites or ensure they go to the select few. They do not want to be involved at all in something that excludes any children no matter what the reason.

Tailtwister Tue 15-Oct-13 16:09:33

At DS's school the invitations are given to the teacher and they are then put into the book bags the children take home. As far as I know, the children don't know there's an invitation in there until they open the bag for their homework. This is for very young children though and they are usually whole class parties.

The parent contact list we have is an optional thing, but to my knowledge has everyone on it. We have several teachers and doctors on it, but no social workers as far as I know. Obviously there are cases where someone wouldn't want their address down, in which case an email address could be used?

This is just how it works as DS's school, but it does rely on everyone being pleasant and behaving themselves. I can appreciate that there might be some parents who you would rather not give your address to.

PaperSeagull Tue 15-Oct-13 16:09:56

The local schools where I live have a blanket ban on handing out party invitations in school. It simply is not allowed. And I for one am completely in favor of that.

When I was a child, things were different. Most schools permitted the distribution of invitations. One of my brothers was excluded from every party. He never received a single invitation. Never. He is on the autism spectrum but he desperately wanted to be included. The other kids and their parents just thought my brother was "weird." Their casual but deliberate exclusion really hurt him, as much as the more obvious bullying he was subjected to all through school.

Mirandafart Tue 15-Oct-13 16:25:17

Too right, how awful if only a few were uninvited and why should teachers be expected to give them out anyway.

nkf Tue 15-Oct-13 16:30:07

I wouldn't publicly invite all my office minus a couple of people. It's rude.

lainiekazan Tue 15-Oct-13 16:52:47

What about having friends to play?

Sometimes you see a group of friends skipping off to someone's house and another 'friend' who wasn't asked trailing along the road some distance behind with a jolly mum offering trips to the sweet shop etc in recompense.

People are always going to get hurt.

You cannot makes rules about it.

MrsLouisTheroux Tue 15-Oct-13 17:02:55

ilovesooty: I would imagine that the school is perfectly entitled to ban the use of its premises to facilitate social arrangements scheduled to take place outside school.

I love it when such simple statements are put so 'officially'!

FixItUpChappie Tue 15-Oct-13 17:16:40

I haven't read the whole thread but wanted to add that my friend's child's school have moved to printing out the class list with mailing addresses for the parents at the start of the year (with approval of course)....that way invites can be mailed to whom you like and aren't handed out in class which I think is a wonderful idea.

FixItUpChappie Tue 15-Oct-13 17:21:43

Ah I see parent lists have come up already....*I don't see why a list of parents and their email addresses can't be issued. For people with privacy concerns they open a gmail address which can then be set up to forward mail to their main account. It could be explained clearly that this is purely for social contacts and no 'business' be discussed*

Perfectly logical solution IMO

MidniteScribbler Tue 15-Oct-13 22:07:22

I think if I was a teacher I would have been so angry, I would have escorted the clown off the school premises.

He was. Mum then tried to say we should recompense her for the cost of said clown because she didn't get her full 1hr that she'd paid for. Principal for very forthcoming about his reasons for not permitting such foolish things to happen and exactly why mum was a bitch of the highest order (though not necessarily in those words) and that if she put one toenail out of line again she would be asked to take her children and leave the school.

Let me turn this on its head can anyone give me a good reason why teachers and ta's should have to deal with any invitations?

We shouldn't. But we actually give a shit about every single student in our classroom and we don't like to see any of them upset because of being excluded from a party because another parent doesn't like their parent, or because of bullying, or because they have additional needs that others aren't willing to take the time to understand. I will not enable other people to be arsesholes.

TwoAndTwoEqualsChaos Wed 16-Oct-13 00:57:51

I think some of the experiences on this thread are dreadfully sad. We are are only at the beginning of all this but, in a single-form entry school, most people have had no parties, class parties or single-sex parties, which, to my mind, are all fine. There have been a couple which, either, selectively, invited a mixture of boys and girls (about half the class) or about half the girls, about which things were more hmm (I have to confess to some discreet texting to discover if DD1 was the only ones not invited).

In DD1's class, there is a little boy who (and no one knows why) doesn't ever go to parties, but we still invite him.

In DS1's class, there is a child who appears to have substantial needs (arrives (pre-arranged) five minutes after school starts, leaves at lunch, wears reins out of school) who was invited to our whole-class party. We are only a few weeks into Reception and they declined the invitation so I only met the mother after the party, due to the above. However, he would have been very welcome and we would have done all we could to help him enjoy it.

Perhaps it is the BF-ing hormones, but I was very weepy reading some of the above (and horrified at some of the parents). Yes, life IS brutal, but I hope I can bring up my children to be considerate and empathetic to others (and secure enough to shrug-off petty rejection). Kudos to the mother of the 6 year-old up-thread who took a principled stance.

Oh, and when all other explanations fail, I have (in a slightly different context) had to say that I don't understand why So-and-So said such-and-such and that people can, sometimes, be rotten and mean and unkind for no apparent reason and it was best just to realise that and leave them to it. Horrid for DD, but, I hope, a lesson she will learn so she treats people courteously and can measure people for their real worth.

Driz Wed 16-Oct-13 03:16:42

Invites are not allowed to be handed out in my children's school. (USA) Or birthday cards/presents. We have to use the postal service. It is a very very good idea, it avoids upset.

AnneTwacky Wed 16-Oct-13 03:54:09

I had this discussion with DD on Monday, after they had an article about it on Newsround.
She, not wanting to be unfair, wanted to invite the whole class to her party. I told her it's not always that easy as you may only have space/ food for a few people.
She came to the conclusion that if she couldn't invite everyone she would save a space and invite somebody who doesn't get many invitations or is having trouble making friends, because although it's still not fair it is kind.
I'm proud of my thoughtful little girl. smile

Moln Wed 16-Oct-13 05:46:09

My boys school has this policy, has had it for years. No issue, for the parties where it's a small number (the normal type in our house) I have the contact details of the parents already as they are already friends. Ds2 is having his first party and all the boys in the class are invited. I gave out the invites outside the gate.

There is also a class contact list, always has been. Where I work is not something I want generally know, so I have a home email on it. I have to say I'm a bit hmm at anyone. who says contact lists are terribke because then strangers would have their contact details (an attitude seen only on here on here, in my boys's school all children in each class have some form of parental contact down). it's not as if just because your email is available people all go mad with the urge to email a 'stranger'

It does minimise exclusion, not handing out in class, it doesn't remove exclusion as there are sadly, some horrible people out there who will not invite that one child anyway.

sleepywombat Wed 16-Oct-13 06:09:32

This was the policy at the London school I worked in (5 years ago). It worked OK. The rule was only the one class must be included if invites given out, not the year & our school always separated twins - so that sometimes caused a bit of whinging from parents. Tbh, a lot did seem to have whole class parties, but it was quite a wealthy area!

Yes the kids often talked about other parties afterwards/moaned that they weren't invited - I was quite happy as their teacher to explain 'c'est la vie' & they seemed fine.

My mother didn't have a clue who my classmates were - she would just tell me to choose 6-8 friends & I would give the invites to them at school. It didn't seem to be a massive issue in those days. There were a lot of children who were really nasty to me, plus I was pretty shy, so there is no way I would've wanted a whole class party even if my mother did have the money/time/inclination/energy.

sashh Wed 16-Oct-13 10:28:42

AnneTwacky

Sounds like you are bringing up a star.

Hullygully Wed 16-Oct-13 10:34:21

I'll never forget my ds' face as his arsewit five year old reception class teacher handed out invites to a select few as they all sat agog on the carpet at the end of school...

Bloody right it should be kept out of school.

cory Wed 16-Oct-13 10:50:50

If these things have to be negotiated totally out of school, surely it will just mean that parents will invite the children whose parents they already know, so anyone who is new to the area or has a shy parent or a parent who works full time or a parent from a different social class will simply never get any invites. I can't see how it will lead to less exclusion.

Hullygully Wed 16-Oct-13 11:22:41

Not if the school is a bit organised and gives every parent a list of email addresses with the child's name next to it. Like they do for form reps. Then your child chooses the children and you email the parents. Peasy.

cory Wed 16-Oct-13 11:26:36

That would be the solution, Hully. But for some reason many school refuse to give out any personal details, so then you're pretty well stuck. We never had a list of any kind.

Handing out invites at carpet time or in the classroom does sound one step too far, though: at our schools it was always done by parents in the playground; nobody would have thought it right to saddle teachers with that.

reelingintheyears Wed 16-Oct-13 11:35:21

Ask the TA or the teacher to put them in book bags, not difficult, they manage to put letters home in book bags.
No place for it in school, get in early and catch the parents and give the invitations to them.

TwoAndTwoEqualsChaos Wed 16-Oct-13 11:58:57

Oh, and between the induction days over the Summer and the start of term, one child had left and one joined so, even though we had a list containing allt he children's names from the induction day, the school office wouldn't give me a complete class list hmm anyway, I managed to establish who had left and provided an invitation filled in bar the name for the Reception teacher (as well as another spare in case I had boo boo-ed) and, on hearing a child was away in the run up to our party (short notice as the beginning of term), I put a First Class stamp on it and got the office to address and send it out (fwiw, they weren't back in time but were pleased to be included).

pigletmania Wed 16-Oct-13 12:49:15

Annetwaky that is lovely of your dd,, se sounds fantastic, I wish all children thought that way. My dd6 used to be lucky with parties in her mainstream school, people used to be great, but as she became older, the whole party thing stressed her out and invites petered out. But it was lovely that people thought to invite her. Now dd is in a special Autistic school so no parties

Rosa Wed 16-Oct-13 12:52:55

In our school its either a whole class invite or .Single invitations have to be given out not on school grounds.

Worried123456 Wed 16-Oct-13 12:58:50

Ask the TA or the teacher to put them in book bags, not difficult, they manage to put letters home in book bags.

On Friday afternoon (whilst trying to teach), I had a newsletter, 2 leaflets, a magazine, school photos and assorted head bump/cold compress letters to put into 30 book bags as I have no LSA anymore. Frankly, I would rather spend my time teaching your children and let parents give out their own invitations after school!

fortheloveofmike Wed 16-Oct-13 13:05:40

The teachers put invites into book bags and we've never had issues.. my ds doesnt get invited to all the parties but thats life!!
Most of the mums ive spoken to all agree and we all understand that our children all invite who they want and none if us are offended. We're all grown ups after all smile

Worried123456 Wed 16-Oct-13 13:26:15

When I was an NQT, many hundreds of years ago-I was asked to give our a big wadge of invitations to my Y1 class. Two parents had joined together to do a joint party for two of the girls in the class and had invited every child in the class except two boys. The boys were utterly distraught and went out in floods of tears. They had no idea why they were the only ones without a yellow envelope with balloons on and kept asking me where their one was. I had to to explain the situation to them and then again to their parents as I had to explain why they were so upset.

I didn't think too much about it at the time-I was just sad for them, but now, as an experienced teacher and parent, I'm cross they put me (and those boys) in that situation. It really wasn't anything to do with me and I should never have been involved sad

Slipshodsibyl Wed 16-Oct-13 14:34:45

My children's school did this. The birthday child could hand out invitations for the whole class or just all the girls/boys, so that there was a clear gender divide and no personal hurt. I thought it was wonderful. I also think it is fine to ask those on a child's 'table' only. But the whole table must be asked.

The bewilderment and hurt at not being invited is palpable on the faces of parents as well as children and I cannot understand how any parent can think this acceptable.

It will not stop some horrible parents from continuing to bring up their children to ignore the feelings of others, but it does send a very clear message that the school does not approve which is very valuable. Good for that school and I am utterly astounded that so many people think it wrong.

pigletmania Wed 16-Oct-13 14:43:16

Oh worried that is just disgusting, yes I remember those invites with balloons in (I'm 36), the ones I never got sad. From 4-11 years, I was only invited to 2 parties. I was the weird non academic kid, funny now I have a good MSc In psychology.

I actually disagree that all the boys or all the girls is acceptable. It is reinforcing stereotypes that boys and girls shouldn't play together. Both my girls now have friends who prefer to play with girls than boys - they either don't get invited to any parties or parties with boys whom they don't play with. Obviously we invite them but they get just as upset when all their friends are invited to a party and they don't because they have a penis. Rather I go by a rule of thumb of whole class or half the class or fewer.

I should have said is more acceptable - obviously however you do it some children may be upset if you only invite half the class, but to divide by gender can be just as hurtful. You don't need to invite everyone but don't call it fair if you just invite one gender.

hettienne Wed 16-Oct-13 14:53:46

Seems totally reasonable to me. I'm surprised anyone thinks differently!

If you want the school/teacher to be involved in distributing invites, invite the whole class.

If you want to invite a select few, organise it yourself - give them to parents in the playground/post them/email/call.

What's the problem?

lainiekazan Wed 16-Oct-13 14:54:37

Whole class? Whole table? How bizarre.

Tables are arranged according to... who knows what criteria, and a child shouldn't be forced to invite the whole eight pupils who they may never play with/speak to. Most parties we have had have been eight guests in total - and it would be a strange sort of party that consisted of an engineered group like that. I also agree that stating girls only or boys only - what tripe.

Slipshodsibyl Wed 16-Oct-13 17:30:00

It is an engineered division but if the whole class cannot e catered for then the division is the least hurtful. I understand that it is stereotyping but if the reason for it is clear, then I consider it preferable to leaving out a small number of children. Anyway, by a certain age, many children have single gender parties by choice, though I accept by no means all.

Eight guests in total would be a small enough selection to be acceptable and not leaving out just a few children in most cases I guess, with invites issued away from the school gates

It's not an engineered division, just a lazy one. Why is it fairer for dd1 to invite 20 girls to her 9th birthday party, half of whom she never plays with, and leave out one of her good friends because he has a penis? Surely you would be less upset if a girl who you never plays with doesn't invite you than if a girl who is one of your best friends doesn't.

Slipshodsibyl Wed 16-Oct-13 19:20:17

Well it was what the school requested. And while I agree that it might be clumsy or lazy, it had the desired effect: to make explicit to parents that in a community of, children, the actions of some parents was causing unnecessary distress to some children. And that the school and teachers found this kind of behaviour unacceptable and they were formalising their disapproval.

This was a primary school (international) of about 600 children and as far as I am aware, not a single one of the many teachers disagreed with the policy, despite its obvious imperfections. Lets be honest. It shouldn't have been necessary for them to do this had parents not caused sadness.

I would have thought the whole class was the class that your child was actually in and not the othet two classes as well - obviously if there were 3 classes in that year group.

I am all for it. DD2's birthday is in March and we will be inviting the 23 children from her class because I cannot handle to utter heartache that comes with not getting an invite to a schoolmates birthday. My daughter has come in tears four times since she started school in August (only 8wks!) because she hasn't been invited to a party. She's not spoiled, she does understand that she can't get invited to every party but ffs mums, handing invitations out in front of 5yr old who isn't being invited is harsh and downright nasty imho - I wouldn't do that to their children so why can't they have a bloody heart and not do it to mine?! My poor DD is a lovely child through no fault of her own attending a school that she doesn't know anyone from nursery, but out school are happy to hand out a list with the whole class first names on for the purpose of invitations so that no child gets left out.

I completely understand if you are having a party at home and can only invite a couple of children, in which case maybe pulling their mum/grandparent/carer/whatever aside and handing them the invitation maybe at hometime or sending them into school (prior agreement with teacher) for teacher/helper to slip into bags for parents? At nursery last year a childs mum put the invites in brown envelopes (unappealing to children!) and marked them FAO X's mummy/daddy and the nursery were happy to hand them over and no children were knowingly left out.

and breathe

littleblackno Wed 16-Oct-13 21:09:15

My dd has just taken in her party invites into school to hand out for her 6th party. She's only inviting 8 people. She goes to breakfast club and after school club 4 days a week and the other day I don't always drop off/ pick up. I don't know half of the people she's invited so no way of contacting their parents. How else is she supposed to invite her friends to her party? I offered her a party where the whole class were invited but she didn't want it (thank goodness). It's a hard lesson and i agree its cruel if only a couple have been left out but if it's the minority being invited then I don't see the problem really.

fluffypillow Wed 16-Oct-13 21:16:25

My children have invited the whole class in the past, and the invitations have been given out in school. When they've had a smaller Birthday outing, then the invitations are given out discreetly, away from the classroom.

I feel that is cruel to 'rub childrens noses' in the fact that they are not invited to a party. Of course we can't always invite the whole class to parties, but there are kind ways of doing it, and downright mean ones.

A little thought goes a long way.

YABU op.

jellybeans Wed 16-Oct-13 21:19:25

I always hand mine out to the parents by stealth so not to offend parent or child. I do soft play type parties and can only afford 10-14 guests. If I had bags of money i would invite more. Although i don't see why should invite children who are mean to/have bullied my child relentlessly. My son hasn't been invited to a few this year and he wasn't really bothered/didn't notice and usually the parent's were only having a few friends or at their house so numbers were limited.

jellybeans this will be DDs first proper party and I have been putting the £6 away for the past 10wks...another 20 to go and I will have enough for 30 children to attend (23 class children, my 2 and 5 family children).

jellybeans Wed 16-Oct-13 21:31:37

'Don't get the idea either that children should never have to have someone they don't want at their parties'

There is no way i would have had 2 boys to my party. One was extremely violent and racially abusive. Beat up my son on a daily basis at one point as well as picking on his (minor) disability. Invited all the kids to his party (including his brother) but not him BECAUSE of his disability which he told everyone including him about. Why then should we invite this child (child has no special needs other than behavioural). The other boy was also violent and racist (heartbreaking the things that were said) and bullied my sons. No way would he be welcome just to prove a point. However they were never the only ones not invited, we never invited more than 1/3 to 1/2 the class and it was always discreet through parents.

Floggingmolly Wed 16-Oct-13 21:32:03

Aw, prettyplease, that's lovely; hope she has the time of her life smile

Thanks Floggingmolly I hope so too grin

jellybeans Wed 16-Oct-13 21:36:05

prettypleasewithsugarontop

Are you saying I should simply save up? I have 5 DC!! Along with uni fees and a huge list of commitments!!! In addition my DS only wants the people he plays with and that aren't 'mean' to him. As it is not excluding a small number of people I don't feel bad so long as i am discreet with the invites. As I said we only invite 10-14 maximum.

In addition many parties have size limits such as bowling, build a bear, go karting etc. It would be hundreds to pay for that.

In my experience with all 5 DC, most parents do not invite the whole class. That is a minority that tend to hire halls or swimming pools. It's not the sort of party everyone wants.

mameulah Wed 16-Oct-13 21:41:04

Party invitations are post.

Take them to the post office.

I have, more than once, been on the wrong side of a parent for not prioritising the distribution of party invitations.

If you are happy to organise my post at your work then I will organise your post at my work.

IHaveA Wed 16-Oct-13 21:46:12

My kids old school had this rule although it also allowed either EVERY boy or EVERY girl in the class.

I liked it. The parents association collected and distributed all the parents contact details at the beginning of term (you could opt out if you wanted)
So it was easy to invite whoever you wanted.

It's a much nicer way to do it rather than risk upsetting someone. This isn't a matter of protecting our special little snowflakes, it's just good manners to be discreet about invites whatever you age.

jellybeans no I wasn't saying that at all; that's what I am doing. It's the only way I can afford to do it.

As you've said yourself, you are discreet when you hand the invites out. I completely understand only wanting or being able to have a small party, my issue was with the ones at my daughters school/other classes etc who are inviting most of the class and excluding a very small amount and doing it publicly. That's my beef smile. It drove me nuts this mother shouting childrens names out at the top of stairs, 23 in the class (24 inc DD), she shouted out 20 childrens names, all of whom were in our class. It's so sad sad

jellybeans Wed 16-Oct-13 21:54:40

prettypleasewithsugarontopOh I see, I agree with you there, that is quite mean when it excludes just a couple/few so publicly. I have always been discrete as have my friends that do the same. I guess sadly there are always some that don't really think of others feelings.

JenaiMorris Wed 16-Oct-13 21:57:45

The head in this story has been totally misrepresented. Still, why let the facts get in the way, and all that.

frogspoon Wed 16-Oct-13 22:12:03

I think this is a good idea. I remember being particularly upset aged about eight, to be one of the only children in the class not invited to an ice skating party. It was particularly upsetting as I had invited this girl to my own (numbers limited) party and had considered her to be a friend and because everyone was talking about it at school.

I agree that learning you can't always be invited to everything is an important skill, but there is no need to make rejection so obvious, particularly to the child who never gets invited to anything.

If you can't host the whole class, just hand the invitations out outside school, or by phone, email, text, snail mail etc

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 17-Oct-13 13:10:23

Having a contact list with email - a new one if need be - blondesmum@hotmail.com for example is the way round all the hassle of sending invited out at school

Kids can't go to every party nor should that think they should be invited to all events but if always being left out that's hard sad

Those who said their children never went to parties /often left out - did you do parties? Did you invite those children who didn't invite yours?

minniemagoo Thu 17-Oct-13 13:29:52

I am genuinely surprised at how many parents say they have no contact details for their DCs friends parents. We have a full class list for all parents and we sign up to a code of conduct ie numbers not to be used for touting business etc.
For those who hand out invites to Dcs without a contact number for parents what happens if the child has an accident in your care or even at a 3rd party location.
Also for those of older children surely by the time a child is in their 3rd/4th year of school you would know their friends parents socially even minimally?

HexU Thu 17-Oct-13 14:03:46

For those who hand out invites to Dcs without a contact number for parents what happens if the child has an accident in your care or even at a 3rd party location.

If you mean at parties - parents tend to stop as late as 6/7 years here and if they don't reply by text they usually leave their phone numbers if they do leave them or you ask them to.

Prior to 8 years though do find even if you do ask for them to reply by text - many don't though they do then stay or arrange for another adult to say. So it's not uncommon not to have other parents numbers.

People here are very suspicious - though I'd go for the e-mail list I'm not so sure about other parents.

Also for those of older children surely by the time a child is in their 3rd/4th year of school you would know their friends parents socially even minimally?

Some to talk to, some to nod to others by sight a few I've no idea who they are or which DC is there but seem to know me when they want something others never see. So leave it to eldest to sort out invites.

Outside of school and a few clubs DC don't socialize with their class mates despite living close to school and despite my many and varied attempts to try and facilitate this over the years. Lucky they are close in age.

It's not a friendly area and even at DC parties other parents don't alway want to talk to us or they do but don't even say hello when you next see them.

ilovesooty Thu 17-Oct-13 14:22:07

So people are suspicious enough not to give out any contact details but still happy enough to accept invitations to strangers' houses?

Very peculiar.

I'm glad I didn't teach in primary. Why on earth should teachers and TAs act as postal go betweens and deal with any upset caused?

ilovesooty Thu 17-Oct-13 14:23:43

Sorry HexU that's not a criticism of you!

HexU Thu 17-Oct-13 16:12:38

Most people have grown up here and seem to have very negative outlook thinking everyone has ulterior motives - with some lovely exceptions though many of those are blow ins like us or have lived elsewhere. There is this under currant of local things for local people.

I've never lived anywhere like it before and I grew up in a small village and lived all over UK and this is a suburb of a small town.

Though to be fair there are very few house parties as its usually venues- and when I left reception DD1 at one years ago she was upset because apparently a large number of other parents stopped in the small house making it very over crowded but I hadn't.

We plan to move away soon.

<does little happy dance at thought>

needaholidaynow Fri 18-Oct-13 17:51:30

I don't remember going to every child's party in my class.

I also don't remember feeling hard done by because I didn't get an invite to every party. I went to a few, mainly my close friends' parties, and that's really all that mattered to me.

Are children more sensitive these days? Seems so because "there are no winners on sports day or in football matches" and now this.

Where's my violin?

CrohnicallyLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 17:59:45

It's a great idea. We had a case of one child (with SEN) not getting an invite and becoming upset. Teacher managed so smooth things over 'oh, but not everybody can be invited, there just isn't space' and the birthday child piped up 'oh no miss, there's space, but my mummy said I wasn't allowed to invite x'. Obviously x got more upset, and every time the teacher tried to calm him down the birthday child piped up again. This was in the morning, x was upset all day. If invites weren't dealt with in school then a) x may well have not realised and b) the teacher would not have been in the position of trying to do the register, calm down x and shut the birthday child up all at the same time.

CrohnicallyLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 18:01:14

Oh, and I completely understand birthday child's mum not I voting x- it's the way she clearly made a big thing of 'not being allowed to' invite x rather than making an excuse such as space.

CrohnicallyLurking Fri 18-Oct-13 18:01:59

Inviting, not I voting

roadwalker Fri 18-Oct-13 21:57:29

I have no problem with a group of children being invited to a party but I do not think it is the teachers/TA job to give them out
I do have a problem with 1 or 2 children out of a class being left out and I have never done this myself
Either a few or the whole class
A boy in my DD's class had a whole class party (30 kids) 2 years running except her
The boy told my DD ( who has SEN) that his Dad couldnt stand her and would 'knock her head off if she was at his party'
The whole class was talking about the party and the whole class knew my DD was not invited
I am happy to say the family have moved and the boy is not in my DD's class any longer
It was disgraceful behaviour

gamerchick Sat 19-Oct-13 06:43:19

Needaholiday if you were NEVER invited and had your face rubbed in it. Would you have been fine with that as a kid?

Some of the posts in here are so sad. sad

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