To be more angry than I've ever been at DH?

(140 Posts)
desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 14:16:08

Hi,

Have NCed for this and posting here for more traffic. Really don't know what to do and am feeling so desperately angry & upset.

After a year of trying for our much wanted 2nd child (& suffering a loss at the beginning of the year), I've finally been given clomid to help me ovulate properly. The trouble is every time we now DTD DH doesn't ejaculate. First time laughed it off, second was slightly concerned, now I've lost count & I'm fuming. How the hell are we supposed to conceive if he doesn't play his part?! I've tried talking to him & he days he's turned on, he wants to but doesn't know what stops him. He won't go to the GP so basically we're stuffed. We have just tried for the millionth time & it's ended up with me walking out in floods if tears leaving him in bed.

What do I do?

TheOneAndOnlyAlpha Sun 13-Oct-13 14:18:05

Hmm. First instinct is to say poor guy. The pressure he's under from you can't help matters. Be sensitive.

juneau Sun 13-Oct-13 14:20:27

Has he ever had this problem before? It sounds like performance anxiety to me, probably brought on by the stress of a year of trying. Is there any way to take the pressure off? Could you try and let him initiate sex i.e. put your fertile 'window' on the calendar, or something? I can only imagine the pressure you both feel under at this point, and it's really not sexy.

TidyDancer Sun 13-Oct-13 14:20:29

You have my sympathy but honestly, putting him under such pressure will not be helping.

juneau Sun 13-Oct-13 14:22:53

P.S. 'Angry' isn't sexy either. Is taking a break for a month or two to let things calm down an option? If you're 40+ I'm guessing you'll shout 'NO!', but otherwise it might be a good idea.

Diamondsareagirls Sun 13-Oct-13 14:23:17

Oh, OP you need to take a step back and really think about what this must be doing for your relationship. I know it must be so frustrating but taking this approach will damage things with your DH. I really think you need to take a little break from trying and take the time to connect properly as a couple and talk about the reasons why this is happening.

I am not sure I would orgasm if I felt under massive pressure to 'perform' either.

It's very stressful for both of you. But still doing some shagging that is just for fun/pleasure, or not necessarily to end in him getting you pregnant is surely still important for your relationship.

anotetofollowso Sun 13-Oct-13 14:23:41

I identify with your desperation and disappointment. So I really don't mean this to be judgemental or harsh. Try to remember that he wants a 2nd child too, and that he wants to please you. If you can treat this as a mutual problem rather than something he is doing to you then it might help. Is there any way to have a few glasses of wine and talk about why he thinks this is happening ?

Very best of luck OP. This is so hard.

Fuzzysnout Sun 13-Oct-13 14:24:11

So sorry you're going through this. Take care of each other though. No doubt DH is not doing it on purpose and your understandable anger and frustration will only make it worse not better. Upsetting each other in the bedroom will not resolve anything.

Ultimately you may have to persuade him back to the doctor, but give each other some time. Being seen purely as a baby making machine is no more sexy for a man than a woman and is not going to allow him to perform.

Could you, would you be able to orgasm for someone who was angry and frustrated with you?

It's so hard but think about having a little break and rebuild your relationship first otherwise it will all be for nothing.

Take care and be kind flowers to both of you.

DropYourSword Sun 13-Oct-13 14:24:17

I can sympathise with how desperately you want to conceive, but your DH is not some sort of performing seal! Maybe you're putting too much pressure on him.

Hissy Sun 13-Oct-13 14:24:17

Bloody he'll woman! How would you like it if your H was on here bitching about your 'failure' to do your part?

This is so wrong, on every level! Wake up and see this please?

Back off the whole thing a bit, chill out and if it happens, It happens.

MyNameIsWinkly Sun 13-Oct-13 14:26:08

Bloody hell, telling the OP its her fault for putting him under pressure is really unfair! There's a very small fertile window, and you can only have something like 6 cycles of clomid EVER. So there is a certain degree of "now or never" which comes from the facts of the situation NOT the op.

OP it is shit that he won't see the GP and for that, I don't blame you for being angry. Alas anger will be counter productive. Keep talking and talking some more.

MissMarplesBloomers Sun 13-Oct-13 14:26:33

Why not fool around a bit , let him ejacualte for pleasure wherever he wants then have a nice cuddle and DTD after a bit when he's recovered.

Performance anxiety can really ruin it for a man, don't presume its a voluntary thing.

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 14:27:30

He told me he doesn't want to know when I'm fertile as this makes him over think things so wants me to initiate sex. Our fertility consultant has told us we should have sex every other day from CD 10 to CD 20.

I know he feels under pressure but I'm the one who has had to go through the testing, the physical pain of MCing, the constant questioning from HIS mother about why I'm not pregnant (he's got the high sperm count, I'm the one with the problems).

I know I'm coming across as a heartless cow but after a horrendous year I thought the drugs would be our solution & this is yet another barrier to deal with.

AllThatGlistens Sun 13-Oct-13 14:27:57

Bloody hell that's a huge amount of pressure to be putting on him!

lemonstartree Sun 13-Oct-13 14:29:10

'Angry' ? I wouldn't be bale to orgasm either if I expected my partner to be ANGRY with me if I could not.

Get a grip. honestly. do you want a child or HIS child? a child at any cost? Imagine if the tables were turned?

TheRobberBride Sun 13-Oct-13 14:29:22

Really, OP YABVVU for being so angry at him over this. It sounds like he is suffering from performance anxiety. He deserves sympathy and understanding not vitriol. Could you orgasm under such pressure? I know I couldn't.

I'm truly sorry for your miscarriage and I understand how frustrated you must be by the situation. But you really really need to back off.

DontCallMeDaughter Sun 13-Oct-13 14:31:04

OP, we are in the same boat. It's called delayed ejaculation and it's basically the opposite of premature ejaculation only rarer and harder to treat.

PM me if you'd like more info, I don't want to be posting intimate details here. But suffice to say we've had all of the rows and I know how you feel. We've found a way around it to avoid the awful emotions but it's not pretty smile

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 14:31:14

In addition to what I said earlier we've only been given 4 rounds of clomid. I'm now on round 2 which means I've only got 2 left.

LEMisdisappointed Sun 13-Oct-13 14:34:03

You poor thing. It must be really difficult but please just take the pressure off. Maybe even take a month or two off ttc get back on track and start again. Could you actually start again and not tell him? Then the mental block wont happen.

ForTheLoveOfSocks Sun 13-Oct-13 14:35:15

You are being extremely unfair on him. My DH has the same problems and I'm carrying DC#2. We have also both had fertility issues.

My DH can't perform to cue either. We used artificial insemination to concieve both children. He would do his thing on his own into a softcup, (bit like a mooncup) and I would put it in. He found it really took the pressure off him.

You need to calm down and talk to him. If your not careful you may lose him over this.

DontCallMeDaughter Sun 13-Oct-13 14:36:06

And just for all the people who think OP is being unfair... Don't judge unless you've walked in her shoes... It's a fucking nightmare, damaging to the self esteem when DH can't ejaculate and really upsetting when you're ttc. It's emotional agony every month for both people involved....

lizzzyyliveson Sun 13-Oct-13 14:36:48

Not sure if you can get this on the NHS but you can ask a private clinic to arrange for artificial insemination of husband's sperm. It will be discrete and sympathetically handled. Your husband can do the deed without telling you which day he did it. All you need to do then is get to the clinic on the day and they will inseminate.

Bowlersarm Sun 13-Oct-13 14:37:04

Poor you OP. But poor DH as well. Clearly he's not coping well with the pressure, and 'pressure' is coming over loud and clear from your posts. Be kind to both of you. I doubt he isn't ejaculating on purpose.

Bowlersarm Sun 13-Oct-13 14:38:49

Sorry, that sounds insensitive, I didn't mean it to be.

MistressIggi Sun 13-Oct-13 14:39:14

Have the people rounding on the OP read the sentence "he won't go to the GP"?
Why won't he go? Too embarrassing? Ahhh. Bet the OP found it fairly embarrassing to go through all the investigations she'll have had to get to this point.
No of course being angry with him won't help, but does she have the right to feel miserable and frustrated? Of course she does.
Can he ejaculate by himself? Maybe he could do that to relax a bit, or even as a way of obtaining the sperm I suppose, though no idea how easy it is to insert blush

Shellywelly1973 Sun 13-Oct-13 14:40:59

I feel sorry for you both.

Try & take some time out to enjoy stuff with your dh. It sounds really stressful & I appreciate your annoyed but its a waste of energy.

Take care of yourself & really hope the situation works out well for you all.

LtEveDallas Sun 13-Oct-13 14:41:48

You have one child, are you sure your DH wants another?

CoffeeTea103 Sun 13-Oct-13 14:41:52

You are putting too much pressure on him. Your desperation is probably turning this into an unpleasant experience. He wants the child just as much as you. Stop being so pushy and if it happens it will happen.

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 14:43:32

I know it's horrible for him, it's horrible for me too. I feel like the failure - I can't ovulate, I couldn't carry a baby to term. I know it's difficult for him to perform under the pressure but unfortunately we've been given the pressure: only 4 rounds, advised to opk 3 x a day, DTD every other day. I would seriously love the artificial insemination, I've even asked him to do this, but he says he'd have the same problem. It took him ages to give the sperm sample.

PlayedThePinkOboe Sun 13-Oct-13 14:44:57

OP - I sympathise as time is quite clearly of the essence. For all those who "accidentally" got pregnant, it's easy to shake the Calm Down Dear pom-poms. How about getting him to JIAP (jizz in a pot) on his own and then give you the pot.

Delayed ejaculation/performance anxiety/overbearing wife - call it what you will - has anyone ever met a man who can't regularly ejaculate when wanking? grin

Strumpetron Sun 13-Oct-13 14:49:23

No I wouldn't be angry at all, I'd be worried about him.

ForTheLoveOfSocks Sun 13-Oct-13 14:50:40

My DH hated giving the sample too Desperate. But if he is in his own home it's completly different to a doctors room with strangers walking up and down the corridor.

I know it's shite for you too. DD was a clomid baby and was two years in the making, so I do understand (to some extent) how you feel.

Maybe if you speak to him again and try to sell it as being different to when he had to give a sample. You would be suprised at the amount of couples who have to do this in order to concieve.

Iamsparklyknickers Sun 13-Oct-13 14:51:38

Ok you need to take a step back and remember that even though you're dealing with a lot of crap - so is he. Please don't get competitive over whose got the worst hand - you're both in it together. What affects one will affect the other. In different ways, but equally as valid.

I'm not being blase about your situation, we've been trying for years and I'm the one with the issues so whenever I feel like DP isn't putting the same amount of importance on things I want to wring his neck tbh - but what's the point? I have to accept that he needs to deal with the situation in his own way too and there's no point in dividing the team iyswim?

Come on here and rant away, but don't rant at him it's counter productive.

Practically - any chance of taking the pressure off? Get drunk, put on a porno, give him a BJ or get him to go down on you with no expectation of intercourse. It's stressful (as you well know) thinking of your body as a baby making machine, never mind someone else viewing it as one.

passmetheprozac Sun 13-Oct-13 14:52:25

If he is having that much sex and not ejaculating surly he will be in pain?

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 14:53:41

Thanks fortheloveof, will approach the subject later. Going out for a meal with in-laws so after a few drinks he maybe more relaxed. Although we'll no doubt get the pregnant yet? Such and such is expecting conversations first!

ForTheLoveOfSocks Sun 13-Oct-13 14:57:15

Good luck Desperate, fx it all goes well

WaitingForMe Sun 13-Oct-13 14:58:44

I get quite annoyed when the pressure card gets trotted out. Part of being an adult is dealing with pressure when things matter. Deadlines at work, paying the bills, every aspect of raising a family. Why be a precious little snowflake when it comes to sex? Especially with something this important.

OP is not at all unreasonable to want her DH to man up a bit.

To man up????!!!! Bloody hell, no wonder men don't want to go to the doctor about issues like this. shock

OP - I do think that yabu but I also feel that you are very, very stressed. All of that, and the pressure to 'man up' (fgs) will make it harder and harder for your dh - your anger will make the problem much worse. You make it sound as if he's 'failing to perform' on purpose.

I'm sorry about your loss, but your relationship and your existing child, really are more important than all of this, you know.

froken Sun 13-Oct-13 15:03:47

Poor you sad both of you, it must be a really hard situation.

Personally I think advising you to have sex every other day and doing 3opks a day is far too much. Could you just try to take the pressure off you both and aim to have sex twice midcycle?

Do you ever ovulate on your own? Did you need Clomid for dc1 and the baby you miscarried?

I know how infertility feels, both me and dp have fertility issues and it took years to conceive ds, I hope you are not offended by me suggesting that you relax.

We were told that I wouldn't ovulate the cycle before we were due to start ivf ( internal ultrasound, the Dr saw no eggs maturing) we went on a skiing trip, drank lots and didn't have planned sex ( just spontaneous sex) and I got pregnant.

We had spent years having dull baby making midcycle sex, it just didn't work for us.

Can you take a break for a couple of cycles? My Dr said they would prescribe Clomid for a maximum of 6 cycles, it seems a waste to be using up you cycles if there is no hope for sperm.

You could possibly start taking the Clomid again and not tell your dp? Fertility treatment really isn't sexy unfortunately.

Best of luck, I am sorry for your loss sad

gobbin Sun 13-Oct-13 15:08:33

You've got one child, yes? I'd be grateful for the one and give up on number 2, honestly.

Strumpetron Sun 13-Oct-13 15:09:41

Man up?!! What sort of sexist bullshit is that

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 15:12:40

froken, I have PCOS so was always told I would need fertility treatment but conceived twice without it (miraculously). Unfortunately since the MC nearly a year ago, I haven't ovulated at all. I might just have to bite the bullet & stop taking the clomid til that has resolved.

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 15:15:52

gobbin I am and always will be eternally grateful for my DD. what's wrong with wanting another? We are fantastic parents & both of us have always wanted more than one child - DH actually wants 3 - why shouldn't we?

DropYourSword Sun 13-Oct-13 15:21:32

It's it at all possible to stop taking it, get things in the bedroom back on an even keel then start taking it without him knowing so the pressure to perform is off.

Bluegrass Sun 13-Oct-13 15:27:35

"Man up" ffs!! He's not a machine, he doesn't just decide to come and then it happens! Can you imagine a guy plugging away at you with an expectant look on his face waiting for you to come? Do you think it's very likely that you could just man up and orgasm on demand?

He's probably reluctant to waste a busy GPs time when all the GP will say is "yup, I completely understand, you can't come to order - welcome to the human race".

HandbagCrazy Sun 13-Oct-13 15:27:55

We are trying at the moment and my dh is feeling the pressure, although not on this scale. My only 2 suggestions are to spend some time talking things through - explain you're not angry at him but are frustrated by the situation. then maybe initiate some sort of sex but not necessarily the type you get pregnant from. If he realises baby making isnt on the agenda, he may relax. If he manages then, you know he doesnt need the gp, its a mental block. If he cant then push for the gp.
I do think you're reaction is a little harsh but i also understand that its coming from a place of complete frustration and pressure. Please try and remember though, that you are a team, so you need to work together to sort this out.

Also, tell his mother that you've changed your mind and are no longer trying. She'll stop asking and then you can surprise her nicely when you're expecting. I have told my inlaws that we're not ready yet so that they dont ask because its a horrible question to have to answer x

ShadeofViolet Sun 13-Oct-13 15:31:00

**I get quite annoyed when the pressure card gets trotted out. Part of being an adult is dealing with pressure when things matter. Deadlines at work, paying the bills, every aspect of raising a family. Why be a precious little snowflake when it comes to sex? Especially with something this important.

OP is not at all unreasonable to want her DH to man up a bit.**

What a load of bollocks

WorraLiberty Sun 13-Oct-13 15:31:36

You need to listen to what your DH is saying and try to calm down a bit.

As others have said, putting the pressure on will just make it worse.

Imagine if you also had to orgasm in order to get pregnant...I'm sure you'd feel the pressure too.

You could always try artificially inseminating yourself if he can manage to come into a cup.

I know that sounds clinical but I wouldn't rule it out.

LeoandBoosmum Sun 13-Oct-13 15:32:03

I know you want a second child and have suffered loss. Perhaps that's clouding your judgement... You should put your anger aside and be concerned about your DH's inability to ejaculate as it could point to a medical issue, not just a psychological one. You need to convince him to go to the doctor!!
If the issue is psychological, you are approaching it in the worst possible way and compounding the problem.... Not a great analogy but it's rather like screaming at a child who wets the bed and expecting them to stop!

ImperialBlether Sun 13-Oct-13 15:32:32

I think the first thing to tackle is your mother in law. I would put it in writing to her that she is making you very, very unhappy at the moment with her constant references to your fertility. Tell her when and if you are pregnant you will let her know but in the meantime you'd be very grateful if she would stop asking intrusive personal questions.

Next, never mind the every other night sexual challenge, go for every night. Have sex to be closer to him and I'm sure he'll relax. Don't mention fertile periods to him. Can you phone your mum or a friend if you need to talk about it? I know it's unfair but at the moment your goal is to get pregnant and if he can't come when he feels under pressure, all you can do is remove the pressure and go for some good close sex.

WorraLiberty Sun 13-Oct-13 15:33:13

And yes, I second 'man up' as being a total pile of bollocks.

So he's less of a man if he can't ejaculate under pressure?

Nice.

Secondary infertility hurts terribly. I feel for you, OP.

Beccagain Sun 13-Oct-13 15:34:25

I say this in all love. If I were you I would step away from TTC for the time being. The way you're going, you're not going to be 'fantastic' parents for much longer, either because you'll have split up (you could still be fantastic, but separately, I guess) or because your focus will be so off your current child that she will start to feel the strain too.

Nothing whatever wrong with wanting more children... there is a LOT wrong with being so obsessive about it and thinking that wanting should be the same as getting.

LeoandBoosmum Sun 13-Oct-13 15:36:38

Glad I'm not married to you ShadeofViolet!

StUmbrageinSkelt Sun 13-Oct-13 15:41:26

Less of a responsible human being if there are 6 possible cycles of clomid and he's unwilling to look at what he can do to enhance the chances of conceiving.

cupcake78 Sun 13-Oct-13 15:45:31

Two words, artificial insemination! It can be done at home and no one needs to know.

Sex should be kept as sex if its ruining your relationship there are other ways.

Being horribly clinical about it to get pregnant you've just got to get sperm to egg! A penis is the usual way but syringes can also work wink.

I'd say your both under too much pressure. Don't ruin your sex life and relationship simply because he gets stage fright.

Keep sex for intimacy and love.

MokuMoku Sun 13-Oct-13 15:47:13

I think he should man up and tell his mum to back off but apart from that I think you should stop trying for at least a year. Take the pressure of you both and I say that as someone who went through fertility treatment and lost 4 babies to miscarriage and one to ectopic pregnancy so I know how hard it can be.

whois Sun 13-Oct-13 15:49:54

Why won't he go to his GP? I would be angry/upset about that. And, actually, I would probably be really upset if my DP couldn't ejaculate with me.

But being openly angry with him isn't going to help, but must be v upsetting for you OP.

Wilberforce2 Sun 13-Oct-13 15:57:41

Op yanbu to be feeling so upset over this, I have been where you are twice and it's horrendous I wouldn't wish fertility problems on anyone. It is pressure for him but for you as well, I remember getting a sinking feeling when I knew ovulation was coming around because it of the whole "right it needs to be tonight and tomorrow" then DH would work late and be stressed and tired I would get stressed we would argue and miss the window. I remember DH screaming at me during an argument once "I am not a fucking machine" and that's when I realised it was really hard for him as well.

If I were you (and I know how hard it is to do this) I would take just two months off, use that time to just have sex because you want to and not to make a baby and then start the Clomid again but do not tell him. I started keeping the whole thing to myself, I didn't even tell DH when I was ovulating in the end. After 4 years of trying I am 22 weeks pregnant number 2 so it will work. I really feel for you as the shittiness of the whole situation is still very fresh in my mind.

Oh and people telling the op how selfish she is clearly haven't been there.

cantspel Sun 13-Oct-13 16:00:06

He doesn't need a gp to tell him what is wrong. Nothing is broken it is just he is being treated like a performing seal and his body is rebelling against it.

The only thing that will work is to take the pressure off him and get back to having sex rather than trying to make a baby.

Crying and blaming him will just make it worse and could end up destroying your marriage.

Strumpetron Sun 13-Oct-13 16:02:24

I'd feel under enormous pressure if I knew I HAD to do something and it was so detrimental to someone. People can't orgasm at whim. It's as much a mental process as a physical. Imagine if we were telling women to get a grip because they couldn't orgasm hmm

Agree with cantspel

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Sun 13-Oct-13 16:02:25

Yanbu. I would be very upset too.

cantspel Sun 13-Oct-13 16:03:06

Wilberforce i dot think anyone has called her selfish but she is not behaving well either and yes i say that as someone who did have fertility problems. 3 years to conceive my first 2 of those on clomid and plenty of being poked around by a doctor.

tracypenisbeaker Sun 13-Oct-13 16:12:42

Maybe you could just spend time just having foreplay without having actual penetrative sex, just to reconnect for a bit. Then maybe move onto having sex using condoms, so that he is aware that there is no pressure on him to necessarily ejaculate as it's going in the bin anyway. Hard, I know, but maybe if you stop treating his cum like liquid gold he might not feel so under pressure and used.

JaneFonda Sun 13-Oct-13 16:16:31

Good God OP, how horrendous for your poor DH.

WickedPlans Sun 13-Oct-13 16:33:35

I don't think there is a simple solution to be found with the GP.
This is performance anxiety. Putting pressure on him will make it worse.
Talk to him openly and sensitively to see if there is something you can do to help, even using AI

GatoradeMeBitch Sun 13-Oct-13 16:43:26

I'm so sorry OP, you sound like you've been through an awful time. Perhaps you should stop taking the medication for now, let your hormones settle and give your OH a bit of breathing space.

Alternatively, only begin to have sex once he's so excited he's almost at the no-return stage, no more standing starts.

WorraLiberty Sun 13-Oct-13 16:45:43

He doesn't need a gp to tell him what is wrong. Nothing is broken it is just he is being treated like a performing seal and his body is rebelling against it.

Exactly.

What's the point of wasting the GP's time?

It's not like he can't get an erection, he just can't ejaculate because of the pressure to do so.

What can the Doctor do about that other than tell the OP to ease the pressure on him?

GatoradeMeBitch Sun 13-Oct-13 16:47:10

Or possibly, he's upset by the miscarriage or doesn't want any more children despite what he says.

Counselling might be a better idea than a medical appointment. It sounds like he has a psychological problem, not a physical one.

LIZS Sun 13-Oct-13 16:48:47

I'm with Juneau , take a break this month and relax then see how you feel next . Conceiving in anger isn't going to help your relationship

Branleuse Sun 13-Oct-13 16:49:07

calm it down, or your marriage wont even survive ttc. Youre being ridiculus

Polpotsbabyteeth Sun 13-Oct-13 17:00:30

We TTC for 4.5 years in total with various fertility treatments. If I'd had to orgasm to someone else's schedule I dare say we would still be childless.

I feel sorry for you I do, but I feel really sorry for your DH.

MistressIggi Sun 13-Oct-13 17:48:48

However, many, many men do orgasm to a schedule when ttc, when there are difficulties. So why is this particular woman being viewed as so unreasonable in wanting hers to do the same?
And Gobbin, that was one of the most unhelpful posts I've seen on secondary infertility.
Yes sex does become more "business-like" when ttc if there are problems. But that can be fixed. Sex for us became formulaic when ttc dc2. Then he arrived and it became non-existent! But we built it up again. A strong relationship survives such a thing. Neither of us would swap our happy ending (dc2) for any amount of relaxed sex, I don't think.

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 18:13:17

Thank you everyone for your frank replies and honest advice. After dinner out & a few hours thinking time I've calmed down.

I'm not angry with DH, it is the situation but I do also think there are other couples who have to do this so we just have to get on with it.

I know the sensible solution would be to take a break but we're nearly 40, time is ticking!

This bloody sucks.

WorraLiberty Sun 13-Oct-13 18:13:54

However, many, many men do orgasm to a schedule when ttc, when there are difficulties. So why is this particular woman being viewed as so unreasonable in wanting hers to do the same?

She's not.

She's being viewed as unreasonable for 'being angrier at him than she's ever been' and for failing to empathise with how difficult it must be to ejaculate under such pressure.

I'm a woman and I know I couldn't orgasm on demand.

MistressIggi Sun 13-Oct-13 18:23:22

One thing telling us she's angry with him, don't think she has said these things to him? She said after the last time she ended up "in floods of tears" - now that may not help matters, but I refuse to think a woman going through these problems and letting her emotions get the better of her is being unreasonable, I think it is very natural in the circumstances. And I do think the dh is not looking at suggested solutions (help from GP, AI) from the OP which will make her feel more powerless.
OP before I came on MN I didn't know anyone who had babies in their forties - now I know of many, myself included. Don't give up yet smile

Strumpetron Sun 13-Oct-13 18:35:33

OP I hope it all works out for you I really do. Must be awful for both of you. Just take some time to get back to being naughty lovers for a bit wink

notnowImreading Sun 13-Oct-13 18:36:06

Echoing what other posters have said, with a warning attached - my DH left me over this and I don't think my reactions were anywhere near as extreme as you describe yours to be. We had gone beyond clomid towards ivf and he hated the whole medicalisation of the process so much that he decided he never wants children and went off to get himself a much younger girlfriend who doesn't want kids and just wants to have fun.

Probably what you both need is a lovely holiday, somewhere hot, without the clomid and an agreement to let it be for a while at least. You have a child and I'm sure you want her father to stick around.

God, that's a bleak post. I'm not deleting it though. Ttc is really rough on both of you and I didn't realise in time just how rough.

Bluegrass Sun 13-Oct-13 18:39:54

I can certainly imagine how, after desperately trying and failing to find somewhere in the recesses of his mind away from the emotional pressure and expectation that might just trigger an orgasm so he can finally stop, roll over and retreat into the depths of his own self doubt, the sight of his DW bursting into tears and walking out on him would have left him feeling fantastic. I don't suppose that scene is going to be playing itself on an endless loop in his mind next time he tries!

I know its tough (been there and came out the other side) but you have to support each other, that's what marriages are about, not getting angry about it and trying to cast blame.

MistressIggi Sun 13-Oct-13 18:40:23

Notnow if he really wanted to ensure no more pressure to have kids, he'd be better with an older girlfriend, surely?
It does highlight the fact though that a man can take a longer break from ttc, and still have the option to revisit the idea later. Perhaps this is part of why women can get so caught up in all this.

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 18:41:15

notnow, I'm so sorry that happened to you. What an awful time. I really don't know what to say but I hope your future is much brighter than the past.

10 years ago I would've thought what's the worry? Chill out & it'll happen but now time's ticking its just adding to the pressure. Clomid is our last hope, we can't have IVF on the NHS as we have DD. It's clomid or a loan!

OwlinaTree Sun 13-Oct-13 18:47:21

I remember the stress of clomid treatment, pressure to have sex, husband working away all week, feeling under pressure to perform, being told to do it, not to do it, him failing to perform, tears, knowing you've only got a limited number of goes.

Infertility sucks. i hope it works out for you OP. i'm sorry i have no advice, just sympathy.

harticus Sun 13-Oct-13 18:49:37

Poor man - and poor you.
Too much stress all round.
Time to ditch the pressurised mechanics of baby manufacturing and get back to makin' lurv.

Retroformica Sun 13-Oct-13 20:03:52

Talk to your GP yourself. Tell him DH is feeling the stress. Ask for help.

I know there is a lot of pressure on you both to make the most of the limited fertile window in the 6 cycles using clomid.

Can you start by having a little bit of fun. A date? Dont talk about fertility, just have some nice non sexual times together. Can you give him some slow sensual massages (pretending to be uninterested in sex initially). Can you buy some Anne summers stuff and try a few things out. Has he or you a secret fantasy? Can you make it a laugh. What about waking him with a sneaky blow job type thing?

I have walked in your shoes. I have 3 clomid boys after years of painful secondary infertility. The first child conceived without clomid.

Retroformica Sun 13-Oct-13 20:06:30

There are other things that can be tried if clomid doesn't work. I'm not talking IVF. Much cheaper. I can forward my consultants details if you like.

kiriwawa Sun 13-Oct-13 20:22:37

Clomid isn't very expensive (well it's a lot cheaper than most other kinds of fertility treatment).

It's not a race and clearly you need to take the pressure off him - I feel for both of you but he needs to perform to give you what you so desperately want and clearly that's stopping him.

I know a friend of mine's DH had similar issues but then they had 2 DC. Not sure how they resolved the issue but if it's never been a problem before, I'd stop PIV sex altogether and bring him to orgasm in other ways. Right now, he must feel like a performing monkey

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 13-Oct-13 20:30:14

I feel sorry for you and him. I can only imagine the damage it would do to our relationship, though, if I was expected to orgasm on demand.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 13-Oct-13 20:34:42

"However, many, many men do orgasm to a schedule when ttc, when there are difficulties. So why is this particular woman being viewed as so unreasonable in wanting hers to do the same? "

That is so incredibly sexist that I'm aghast.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Sun 13-Oct-13 20:36:01

Clomid might not be helping you emotionally- one of my friends used to refer to it as being in the rage zone as she said it just magnified everything x1000.

I know you both feel under pressure and the clock is ticking, but is it worth pausing for a month or so to try and get back on track - have a mini-break? Has your GP done D21 bloods etc., to check your levels? I have PCOS too so I know the whole ovulating thing can be a frigging nightmare. I can recommend the Verity PCOS website if you haven't used it before. The forum is a bit pink and 'hun' but the women on the TTC boards have been through the journey every which way and there is lots of PCOS-focused fertility support there.

kiriwawa Sun 13-Oct-13 20:43:51

OMG PAs - I can't believe I'd forgotten about that! Clomid made me utterly unhinged!

Not saying you are OP and not wishing to belittle your frustration but it most definitely does affect emotional responses

FingerPicker Sun 13-Oct-13 20:47:37

Just to point out that we only have one child as I am medically unable to have another. It's really not all that bad y'know smile

HavantGuard Sun 13-Oct-13 20:50:37

If I were taking a drug, one of the common side effects of which is serious PMT, that meant I was putting myself at risk of ovarian cysts and fibroids for the chance to have a baby and my OH wasn't ejaculating, I would be furious too.

You're taking drugs and risking your health for a child and he won't even talk to the doctor about his issue?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 13-Oct-13 20:52:50

Havant

In reply to that, I think I'd agree with what Worra said at 16.45.

notnowImreading Sun 13-Oct-13 20:57:43

Thanks, desperate. I'm sure there are brighter times ahead and there will be for you, too. I didn't mean to make your thread about me - it's just that nobody even thought to warn me about the possibility of trouble in the relationship coming from TTC (beyond the very general 'oh it can be tough, you know') and I don't think I'd have taken it seriously if they had.

Mistress, I'm pretty sure that the (much) younger girlfriend is helping to restore his self-esteem, which took a big hit through the TTC process. An older girlfriend might have been (God forbid) closer to his own age, and wencant have that, oh dear me, no.

Good luck, desperate.

PresidentServalan Sun 13-Oct-13 20:59:52

Sounds like he is struggling with the pressure to 'perform'. This is not something to be angry with him about, you need to sit down and talk to him - I don't know of any man who would be feeling particularly good about himself if he couldn't ejaculate.

fluffyraggies Sun 13-Oct-13 21:02:13

Perhaps he knows that talking to the doctor will increase his performance anxiety? He has told OP that it would help if he weren't aware of the fertility window, so i guess he knows this is his issue. The man must know his own mind.

If i had to orgasm to order, and was having trouble doing so because of feeling the pressure, someone ordering me to talk to a doctor would make it worse still sad

^ ^ that was to posters asking why on earth he isn't rushing to the docs.

OP - i've been on the desperate ttc train. It's horrid. My DH asked me to 'hide' when i was ovulating if i could, to avoid TTC sex for him. I took it badly at the time. I felt it was unfair that i should have to do all the charting and worrying and timing and also be adept at being a temptress at the right moment without letting on IT needed doing tonight!

In hindsight i can see that for me - i just had to lay there and be happy to have sex. He had to actually orgasm. If that didn't happen we had no chance. So it was worth doing what he asked.

I sympathise massively. But take the pressure off somehow now. Try the soft cup method method? Stop the clomid for a couple of months and start again without his knowledge?

flowers

froken Sun 13-Oct-13 21:06:07

My fertility specialist told me that my fertility should actually improve as I got older because I have PCOS, his theory was that as your body starts to run out of eggs so you start to ovulate more normally. I do hope this happens to you.

Your body has ovulated before without treatment, maybe if you take a very quick break (a couple of months) your body will have got into the swing of ovulation becuse the clomid gave it a kick start. Even if you don't ovulate and just spend time rebuilding your intimacy with your dp that would be better than subjecting your body to cycle after cycle of clomid with no chance of any sperm.

HippoSlug Sun 13-Oct-13 21:09:39

My DH struggled to perform when we were ttc DC3. Obviously we weren't in the same boat as you, but I can relate to the frustration. I tried not to make him feel bad about it as he already felt he was failing and letting me down, I'm sure your DH feels the same and it only compounds the problem! After a year of ttc I got practical - made him use a cup and I squirted it up there straight away with one of those pamol syringes!! Worked a treat. Got pregnant that month. It was very low on the romance scale, but I was desperate! His performance issues instantly disappeared too. Ttc puts a lot of pressure on a guy, especially in your case where the opportunity is limited by the clomid.

cherrytomato40 Sun 13-Oct-13 21:20:28

YANBU, DD1 is a clomid baby and I totally get it..It's a horrible drug that gives you hot flushes and mood swings, you become obsessed with cycle days and ovulation. It sucks.

I remember having the most almighty row with DH when I was on clomid when he couldn't 'perform' because he admitted he'd had a wank in the shower that evening. I just let rip: "Don't you UNDERSTAND, it's DAY 14 OF MY CYCLE, you've RUINED EVERYTHING!!" He looked at me like a crazy lady and surprisingly we didn't conceive that cycle blush

desperateandangry Sun 13-Oct-13 21:32:18

Thanks everyone.

I actually did say to DH this afternoon "I'm taking the drug, it's making me feel like shit and you can't do that!" Felt awful :-( We've made up now though (without sex!). The clomid is making me crazy. Getting angry ever so easily :-(

I've tried to initiate sex "secretly", not revealing I'm ovulating, but when it doesn't happen I just want to scream we've now just wasted a round! We've only got 4!

Clomid sucks!

LadyKatherine Sun 13-Oct-13 22:04:33

You should be able to take clomid for up to 12 cycles as long as there are no serious side effects. DS was conceived after one round and DD after 4 rounds so i've still got 7 left when we try again. If you do exhaust that, I am fairly certain there are alternatives that can be used to help with ovulation.

My husband also suffered pressure to perform as I went from not being bothered about sex, to pushing him to have sex every couple of days during my fertile window. (If it helps, I was told to take clomid on days 2-6 of my cycle and we DTD every couple of days wef day 6/7.)

I had to try to make it more spontaneous while also making sure it was spontaneous at the right times iyswim. I also used the clearblue fertility monitor while ttc DD and i think it helped although not sure if this would work for you and also they are costly.

VivaLeThrustBadger Sun 13-Oct-13 22:17:56

Have you tried different times of the day, like early in the morning?

PresidentServalan Sun 13-Oct-13 22:35:19

Man up???

FFS - it's not like the guy is doing it deliberately!

ilikemysleep Sun 13-Oct-13 22:36:14

Someone who was definitely not me got pg with one of their children via blowjob. Spat the doings into a cup and squirted it with a calpol syringe. Bingo :-)

MistressIggi Sun 13-Oct-13 23:17:19

Jamieandthemagictorch - what was unbelievably sexist about my post? Sex is reduced to a schedule for both men AND women when having difficulties conceiving. I spent about a year sticking a thermometer in my fanjo the moment I woke up each morning, plotting the results and knowing that, in the mood or not, tonight was the night. I took lots of drugs and took the physical pain of rmcs, alone. It is hard for both partners in this scenario, but I do think the female partner has got it harder - that's not sexist, and I know my dh doesn't think so either - he saw what I went through.

MysteriousHamster Sun 13-Oct-13 23:28:23

Really feel for you OP. AIBU isn't really the place for discussions about fertility once it gets to the complex stuff like you feeling ragey, knowing you shouldn't necessarily, but feeling it anyway!

TTC is so so hard for both partners. As the one with the issues (not all of them, clearly!), OP is under enormous pressure and if she's been given limited amounts of clomid (not all GPs will prescribe more than a few months worth, some won't prescribe it at all), then no wonder she feels like time is running out.

And advising her to take a YEAR out is madness. Madness.

What they need to do is talk openly and honestly about what would make a DH feel better and enable to go forward in TTC.

Maybe he could do it in a cup? I've known it work for a few people.

CharityFunDay Sun 13-Oct-13 23:33:18

YABVU

It's not his fault and it's totally unforeseeable.

Perhaps, as suggested, AI would be the way to go?

cantspel Sun 13-Oct-13 23:53:31

MistressIggi having also gone through fertility treatment i would say i had it way easier than my husband.
I didn't have to perform to order. Yes i had to put up with the doctors poking about, checking my mucus, taking and plotting temperature charts but my husband had to produce sperm to order which is way harder to do than anything i had to do.

Quandary to the public opion on mn men are not unfeeling machines who are up for sex 24/7.

MokuMoku Mon 14-Oct-13 02:52:23

Why is it madness to take a year off?

I think the OP is the one who needs to talk to her GP, explain how things are not going well and ask if she can take time off and restart the clomid when she and her DH are both ready.

Perhaps her DH would prefer not to know when she re-starts the treatment?

There are other ways of treating PCOS such as weight-loss, healthy eating, supplements that she could do in the meantime but the main thing is to work on re-building things with her DH. She has already said he struggles to produce a sample in a cup.

I know many people who have decided to take time out from TTC, some permanently.

If this last cycle of clomid fails the OP is going to feel very resentful towards her DH. If she miscarries again she is going to be devastated.

Mimishimi Mon 14-Oct-13 03:01:10

YABU. I'm sure he doesn't mean to be doing that and your anger/anxiety wouldn't exactly put him in the mood would it?

desperateandangry Mon 14-Oct-13 08:09:53

Moku, I have PCOS but am a size 8, exercise regularly and eat v healthily & take vitamins every day. Can't do much more!

Thanks to all for advice, interesting to hear the AI stories. Something I never considered but will def look into. I've missed my fertile window this month which means only 2 rounds of clomid left. It's not prescribed by my GP but a fertility consultant at my hospital so I can't discuss anythin with him til my follow-up once my 4 cycles have finished.

Strumpetron Mon 14-Oct-13 08:37:35

Yeah my friend has PCOS is very small, but toned but with big boobs and bum and hips, this made her BMI too high and the doctors weren't willing to help until her BMI lowered hmm ridiculous. Luckily they just went with the flow and after two years, she gave birth to my god daughter last month.

vtechjazz Mon 14-Oct-13 10:26:04

Sleep naked. Tell your dh that from now on you will sleep naked, and you are not telling him when you will ovulate. Maybe even quit the clomid until you can rely on his regular servicing!

musicismylife Mon 14-Oct-13 11:06:07

So, because he can't perform like the circus animal that he is hmm, you're 'running out in floods of tears'?

Stop acting like a spoilt brat and give the poor man a break. He is not a means to an end.

Kewcumber Mon 14-Oct-13 11:14:54

OP - it is not Clomid or IVF and you have been poorly advised if you have been told that. In addition to IUI after clomid you can move to injectible drugs and IUI (or sex) which even if you have to pay for it privtaely is significantly cheaper than IVF. I'm also slightly confused why you only have 4 rounds of CLmoid

These are the NICE guidelines -

"Women with World Health Organization Group II ovulation
disorders (hypothalamic pituitary dysfunction) such as
polycystic ovary syndrome should be offered treatment
with clomifene citrate (or tamoxifen) as the first line of
treatment for up to 12 months because it is likely to
induce ovulation."

cantspel Mon 14-Oct-13 11:33:06

I did 2 years on clomid. Ok that was nearly 18 years ago but even today i am sure that you can take clomid for more than 6 months. It took several months alone for them to find a dose that made me ovulate.

MokuMoku Mon 14-Oct-13 12:04:37

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything. Just trying to say that there are alternatives. You seem to be pinning all your hopes and dreams on the next two months and that is so much pressure for you both.

I think a good talk with your DH when you are both calm is a good step to step. Hopefully your consultant with have something to offer you as well.

I wish you both all the best.

MistressIggi Mon 14-Oct-13 13:01:31

Musicismylife that was a nasty post. You're telling a bereaved woman desperate for a child that she is a spoilt brat?

desperateandangry Mon 14-Oct-13 13:50:49

I've only been given 4 rounds as my consultant says he's "confident" I'll conceive in that time! After that I'll be sent for more tests.

Thanks Moku :-)

Music I can assure you I am far from spoilt - I feel like a failure. I can constantly asked by friends & family when I'm having another child esp since I lost out baby there have been 10 pg announcements in our family. I'm not a brat, I am the reason why out family is incomplete.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill Mon 14-Oct-13 13:56:20

Hi OP, I'm a guy who has gone through this scenario, except my wife wasn't taking clomid so in your situation there is even more pressure.

My wife got really pissed off with me which made everything far far worse. The only thing that worked for me was having no pressure to perform. We did do the 'turkey baster', so I knew there was an alternative if it didn't happen. I didn't like doing that but it did at least take some of the pressure off, in that I knew we could still do something. In the end we did conceive 'naturally'.

A note of caution: the whole thing has completely fucked up our sex life. We have got a wonderful son though.

SnakeyMcBadass Mon 14-Oct-13 14:14:45

I feel for you, OP. The need for a child isn't rational, and it's all consuming. I can only advise you to keep on talking to your DH, and to try and step back from pressuring him. He's going through this, too.

icklemssunshine1 Mon 14-Oct-13 14:54:05

Thanks whatsthat, interesting to see the other side. I'm hoping after all this is over our sex life will return to normal. Sick of it being so difficult.

Shockingundercrackers Mon 14-Oct-13 15:19:34

I can't read and run... Poor you OP, what you are both going through really is the absolute pits. Ttc after miscarriage is a total passion killer in my experience. I lost all confidence when that happened to me (twice hmm). Please don't underestimate how hard it is for your DP as well. MC is terribly sad for dads too, but no one talks to them about it. That said, i do think you should take a step back You aren't even 40 yet. There's so much pressure on you, but please remember a lot of that is utter utter bollocks. You still have plenty of time (really) and you still might conceive without the drugs. It happens. As a 40 (cough) something myself i know a number of friends who've conceived after the clomid, after the IVF, after they've given up all hope. Just shagging for fun has given DS three of his little playmates! Don't put so much pressure on yourself.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 14-Oct-13 15:56:57

MistressIggi

I said sexist because if a man had made an assumption about what all women should do/feel/behave based on what they perceive to be the norm for women then he'd be - rightly- criticised. Women would also, rightly, be upset to have it assumed that their feelings about sex don't matter.

I can see it's really hard all round, but my posts, and others have cautioned against blaming each other and losing sight of the foundations of raising a child - the relationship.

Bexamundo Mon 14-Oct-13 16:50:05

Gosh OP I feel for you. We had a long journey TTC for DD (currently asleep on my chest!). DH had performance issues (maintaining mostly). I too got incredibly angry at times and wondered if he wanted a baby. He did have av underlying medical problem. However a lot of it was psychological. One thing that really helped us was taking the pressure off by introducing massage. Massage provides skin-to-skin contact and is both sensuous and relaxing. We used to agree it wasn't an automatic pre-cursor to sex but often lead to it. One too though - was your hands between massaging and sex or your lady bits will be on fire! I speak from experience!

JustThisOnceOrTwiceOrThrice Mon 14-Oct-13 16:55:02

Have you considered some "help"? Might not be something you would normally do but something like putting porn on and dressing up in something that he likes? Might tip him over the edge?

(or put the pressure on even more!)

Sounds tricky all round.

MistressIggi Mon 14-Oct-13 17:00:12

Nope Jamie, still not seeing it - especially as I used the word "many" rather than the word "all" when talking about men. Not saying his feelings don't matter either - let's consider both their feelings, it's not one or the other.
Think you were looking for something that wasn't there - wouldn't be pursuing it only unbelievably sexist is not a label I can take lightly.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 14-Oct-13 17:03:52

I think we'll have to agree to differ then.

complexnumber Mon 14-Oct-13 17:09:26

As a bloke, I have had times problems ejaculating when we were TTC.

If I thought that, at any time, my DP was hating me because of this I would have buggered off sharpish.

For both our sakes.

MistressIggi Mon 14-Oct-13 17:19:36

Or we could agree that you're wrong
wink
Complexnumber, feelings are complex too - OP has said she is the one who can't provide the 2nd child they long for, lot of guilt and inadequacy wrapped up in that. Hopefully you would stick around long enough to see if it was actual hatred, or anger/frustration/misery at the whole situation.

Mojavewonderer Mon 14-Oct-13 17:22:24

Personally I don't think any of this is doing either of you any good.
I think you need to step back and stop putting so much pressure on yourselves.
When you have run out of the medication and go back to the doctor you had best be honest and tell them the problems you are having and they will probably give you another few doses.
Having sex like a robot is not natural and it's certainly not sexy. For a man to ejactulate he needs to be stimulated and he can't do that if his mind has a mental block. You need to make sex fun again. Maybe get him excited and then back off a few times until he can't take it anymore and has to have it! Dress up ;) Use food and/or toys. Make it so he is enjoying it and can't help but ejaculate. I bet you also wouldn't mind a bit of fun too. Bit more romantic than being ordered to drop your pants because it's baking making time.
Good luck op.

Mojavewonderer Mon 14-Oct-13 17:22:47

Baking?? Baby making obviously.

olathelawyer05 Mon 14-Oct-13 18:38:12

This is the equivalent of your husband getting frustrated at you for not conceiving. Yes, you are being unreasonable expecting him to 'do his duty' so to speak. You sound horrible.

PeriodFeatures Mon 14-Oct-13 18:44:45

NYANBU...

Of course you are angry. Another hurdle has been put in front of you

But....

It's not rational, it's not fair and it's misdirected. You both need a cuddle... with each other.

PAsSweetOrangeLurve Mon 14-Oct-13 18:45:02

I would strongly recommend that you get your husband to have a word with his parents and ask them, nicely but firmly, NOT to keep cross examining you about conceiving a second child.

Likewise, ask your family not to keep asking you. The last thing both of you need is more pressure.

MistressIggi Mon 14-Oct-13 19:30:58

Don't take Ola's comment to heart OP, I think he thinks all us women are horrible really biscuit

MysteriousHamster Mon 14-Oct-13 20:42:11

I think 'a year' out is madness, because it's overkill. When you're in your thirties and watching your fertility slip away, a year out might sound nice but you could be faced with more problems later on. Surely a month to three would be just as beneficial.

It's also patronising and something that you (the generic you) would not advise yourself to do at the same moment.

OP does not sound 'horrible', she sounds like she's at the end of her tether and venting here. Her husband deserves understanding, and she could do with a bit of support.

olathelawyer05 Mon 14-Oct-13 22:50:08

MistressIggi ....lol. Yes I think all you women are horrible... but some of you are clearly more horrible than others.

Sorry if you think me harsh, but people - ALL people - need to be called out on their sh*t. You haven't addressed the 'comparison' that I made, probably because you know there is truth to it. If a man wrote the equivalent of the original post, you would (rightly) jump all over his sense of entitlement at expecting his wife to fulfill her duty to him and conceive.

Can he ejaculate on his own? If so, have him do it in a cup and use a turkey baster.

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