Prams and lifts in Peter Jones(64 Posts)
Interested to get views.
I was in Peter Jones yesterday with 4mo in buggy. I was on the first floor and needed to get down and was asked not to put pram on escalator but to get the lift. Fine.
I waited for the lift and every single one was full of people standing. I waited for about ten minutes then resolved myself to ask the next lot if a couple of people would mind using the escalator (approx 10 seconds away) instead. The next lift was full. Doors opened and opened for some time - long enough to explain situation in full, and that staff had stopped us using escalator.
I was amazed that not one person offered to get out and use escalator. The majority ignored me, one woman just shrugged. To be honest, I would have offered without being asked if I'd been in an earlier lift, so I was really surprised.
I also know in a few cases people would not have been able to have used escalators - but a whole lift full? Unlikely surely.
I know that I didn't have any more right than them to use the lift, but surely common courtesy would imply people would be willing to help, even if not obliged to.
When that happened to me I used to get in the lift on the way back up and stay until it was going down again.
I think I'd have been a bit stunned if I'd been in the lift and the doors opened and you started to explain what was going on.
I may have got out for you but it would have needed 3 people to, wouldn't it?
YANBU. Have never understood why able-bodied people use a lift when there's an escalator or stairs option. Even taking into account any people with disabilities, old people who don't feel comfortable on escalators etc., you aren't telling me that no-one from that lift was able to walk upstairs/escalator. I'd be horrified to take up space that a pram needed.
This happens all the time at Tate Modern and there it's all groups of teenage tourists who really could take the escalators or even, shock horror, the STAIRS. They even have signs (with pictures) saying that wheelchairs and buggies take priority, but people are bloody rude, and astonishingly lazy
Yes, a few people would have needed to get out.
The lifts going up were all full too! I was surprised because why would you choose slow lift over escalator if you had that choice?
I guess people may have been surprised, but the lifts were on a go-slow (member of staff mentioned this after we'd been waiting a while) so they had longer than normal to digest info.
Morgause, I don't think OP would expect anyone else with a pram to get out, but it's fair enough to ask able bodies to move. I wouldn't have been 'stunned', I'd have been embarrassed (and rightly so if I was taking up space without a pram).
YANBU. Before I had DS I never took the lift! I always used the stairs or escalators.
I always think the same thing on buses - young, able-bodied people sitting on the seats reserved for the elderly or disabled? We have double deckers around my area, again before I had DS I would always go and sit on the top deck.
YABU - surely you would have known to put baby in a sling, fold up the pram & load yourself up like a donkey & use the stairs. Just wrote this in advance of all those people who were parents back in the day before all this new fangled technology like lifts.
This happened to us in a multi story car park last week. We stood waiting for the lift for ages but it was always full. In the end dp and I carried the pram down 3 flights of stairs.
That does sound a long time to wait but I wouldn't have dreamed of asking someone to get out. In somewhere with time constraints eg train station, airport etc I may have considered it.
I'm terrified of escalators and often think I must look like a selfish arsehole for standing in a lift, as I appear able bodied. That said, it's unlikely that all the people in the lift were escalatophobes.
Anyone can use the lift if they want to though and it's not for you to say who can and can't. It's frustrating having to wait but I do think asking others to get out for you was wrong.
I ended up getting special dispensation to use the escalators from the staff. Breaking the rules at Peter Jones - rock 'n roll!
Well, depending on which of the two banks of lifts you were using, the actual lifts themselves are pretty small, so you'd essentially be asking everyone to get out. And those are people who have also waited ages for a lift.
YABU - if you cannot manage the stairs or escalator, then you need to use the lift. And that applies to everyone - not just those with pushchairs.
I'd have been stunned if the lift doors had opened on anyone who started talking, is what I mean. It's an unusual thing to happen, maybe people just didn't think fast enough.
I don't think I implied that OP expected someone with a pram to get out, I certainly didn't mean to. That would be daft.
We have the same problem in our local John Lewis. There's one really small lift which goes from the very bottom floor right up. There are escalators and other lifts on the other side of the shop. Now we aren't using a pram any more I simply don't use this lift, but I'm amazed at how many people do. Even when we were out together with the pram, DH used to take escalator so he wasn't taking up space.
I don't know about asking people to get out, but tbh if people were considerate then the problem shouldn't occur in the first place.
Everyone would not needed to have got out - travelled up with lots of other people.
I think the point is that it was unlikely that everyone did need to use the lift (in the one I asked people and the ones before). Possible I guess, but highly unlikely.
As witnessed by the couple who tried to push in front of me while waiting, discovered lift was full, then went to use escalator instead.
Gin I actually thought I could use the escalator! or obvs I would have switched to sling!
YANBU - it's one of the reasons I refuse to use a pram/buggy unless I really have to (not that anyone should have to think like that).
DP and I would have got out, even with baby and toddler if we'd been in that lift because we've been there ourselves and would sympathise. I'm actually surprised that no-one else did because in my experience people have always been very helpful (especially teenagers - who seem to get a bad reputation undeservedly) - perhaps it's the demographic of Peter Jones that's the problem.
I probably would have got a staff member to do the asking, yanbu to hope for some common decency and I would have got out to let you in.
sirzy I know anyone CAN use the lift - I said that in OP. I am always just surprised when people aren't more helpful to others even if they don't HAVE to be - in general, not just to those with babies.
I do take the point about people not having time to think and react though - as I say, doors were open longer than normal but I guess they were not expecting to see anyone speaking to them!
I also wondered about the demographic in Sloane Square but didn't want to be inflammatory/cloud the issue
What is Peter Jones? I'm assuming some kind of dept store?
I think it's a John Lewis that's kept it's old name.
They were very rude!!
unless they ALL happened to have disabilities
I would have really asked for someone to get out or just tried to barge in anyway. If there were staff around I might have got them to help.
If it was a group of teens I would have insisted they got out. I am afraid I find the big gaggles of foriegn students to be spectacularly rude.
Just barge in, it's the only way
Peter Jones is the only one of the John Lewis shops to have kept its original name officially (though many are still called by their original names in practice). It's because there are two in central London, and it saves confusion with the Oxford Street one.
And yes, there are a lot of overseas visitors in that area, and no, not all speak English.
Yep, that's a good point about possible language barrier for some (prob not all). Although I need to clarify that I wasn't thinking of foreign visitors/ex pats when I said about demographic!
Also, language barrier would not be a reason to use lift unnecessarily
Having a very rigid, go anywhere mountain buggy, I sometimes and DH always used the escalator. Never had the staff say anything anywhere.
YANBU at all.
People haven't got a shred off decency sometimes. It's vet unlikely they all had a disability or health problem that prevented them from using the stairs, so you'd think some of them would use their noggins and allow you the only option you have.
I don't think you were unreasonable to ask, to demand yes, but not to ask. Barging in with the pushchair would have been out of order, as someone could have been hurt, I appreciate you didn't do this OP but a couple of posters have suggested it.
I rake our buggy on escalators loads too but it seems the OP was told not to initially by staff?
You may be BU, you may not. Lots of people have invisible disabilities you can't see. I have been glared at by mums with prams when I am in a lift. I only use it when I can't physically use an escalator.
I wouldn't use escalators with a pram because its dangerous. Often now they have barriers to stop you doing it.
Lifts are however essentially first come first served.
If you'd got on the lift on 5th floor, what would you have done if a random other person had said at an intermediate floor "Get off, my need's greater than yours"?
And I'm trying to imagine what an onlooker would make of someone trying to barge into a full lift, or attempting to physically remove occupants (for that's what insisting would mean in practice - words wouldn't be enough).
I didn't demand - I asked, but was surprised that no one offered once I'd explained (tbh I thought it was people being thoughtless rather than selfish hence the surprise).
Again, I agree it is first come first served and I didn't have the right to demand someone get off, but I was just surprised at least a couple of people didn't OFFER to help. I understand they didn't HAVE to.
You say you agree it's first come first serve but then you ask, and expect, people to move for you so really you think it's first come first served as long as you don't have to wait your turn!
I have never had this problem in peter Jones but I have in the Tate modern, the staff are normally great in peter Jones so next time I would ask one of them to help you. it is really inconsiderate.
I do think YANBU but I also agree with Sirzy. Waiting is a PITA but there was no reason that you couldn't have waited. If you had a disability that meant standing and waiting caused you distress or pain, then that would be different but otherwise, why couldn't you wait?
I agree it's technically first come first served, but my point was I think it doesn't hurt people to use a different option (escalator) if that option is also easily available to them. So, assuming others could use the escalator, both them and I could have got down.
I suppose I mean why wouldn't you help someone out if it's little or no trouble to you, but makes a difference to them?
I did wait, but since approx ten mins had passed I didn't know if there was going to be a free one. Maybe I should have been more patient in terms of time I waited.
Maybe they were thinking that it wouldn't hurt you to wait. I'm not saying I agree with that mentality but just that if it is first come, first served, maybe they were thinking that...?
Maybe they are fed up of getting electric shocks from the escalators? Or is it just me who finds that in Peter Jones?
I got a shock several times when I pressed the button, which was often!
candy I'm sure they were thinking that. I suppose I just wonder why you would make people wait when a quicker option is available to you too.
YANBU. Drives me crackers when perfectly able-bodied people bung up lifts and make it difficult for others to move around. Lifts are there for when you can't use the escalator or stairs people!!! And you're absolutely right, the kind thing would have been for someone to offer to get out. It's not all about 'rights' or 'waiting your turn', kindness and politeness are important too.
Captain - how do you know they are able bodied?
The bentalls centre in Kingston is like this ALL te time. I just get in regardless of if it is going in the direction I want to,
As I said up thread, I get glares from mums with prams waiting to get into lifts. I can't take the escalator at times. You would never know looking at me.
I appreciate this is not the case with everyone, and some people are just lazy. But people do make an awful lot of assumptions.
Coldwinter- I suppose I wouldn't know for sure. I would be very surprised if I was waiting in a shop and several packed lifts went by, all full of people with hidden disabilities which made them unable to use an escalator though. But I guess it's possible. I wouldn't glare at anyone though.
This is very interesting! The very first flaming of a poor OP when I joined MN was a new mum asking this exact question. Nearly every person that responded hounded the poor woman and said that probably everyone who had pushed her out of the way had an unseen health problem that meant they could not do stairs! While I know many of us do have such health issues I think it is ridiculous to suggest that most people do! I agree OP. If you are abled bodied, take the stairs especially if there is a queue.
I had a pram-in-lift moment today. Crowd of people go into lift, there's a spot left big enough for me to nip into with the pram (single pram containing 6m old and a seat on top for 2yr old). I reach to press the button for my floor as it wasn't pressed and a person in the lift snaps that her daughter's not in yet, so I press the door open button. (No one was hanging around by the doors as I entered, it all looked clear). Woman and daughter then bellow a conversation about getting in the lift inculding daughter yelling "I'm no' tha' skinny!". Woman asks me if I can move up, and I reply "this is as far as I can go without running other people over" (her tone of voice riled me). The lift was delayed for a minute or two while this drags out, before the woman gets out to join her daughter (who was never in sight through the whole exchange). The stairs would have been much quicker! Unfortuntately despite using baby carriers (I had a sling with me) there's just no way I can manage to carry a young baby, manage a toddler when he's reached the end of his tether, a baby changing bag and any purchases without use of a pram, so lifts it is.
I have no idea why people would choose to use a lift if there is no particular need as they're so irritatingly slow, and often awkwardly placed. Priority should go to people who don't have other options avaliable, and I doubt very much that all the other people in the OP's incident needed the lift over the escalator in the first place. Unfortunately if they are of that mindset (to take a slow lift over another method), few would be willing to get out partway through.
Sorry for my hijack, it just stirred up my moment.
of course YANBU OP. For every person in every lift for ten minutes to be physically unable to go on an escalator is highly unlikely. I actually think ten mins is a pretty damn long time to wait and would have asked a member of staff to enforce their policy of not having buggies on the escalators by asking the some of the lift people to move. Most people respond better to an "official" request. I get very at the huge number of threads on here that are the result of an "each man for himself" mentality and think life would be so much nicer if people did just generally give a tiny little bit of thought to others on a more regular basis - not cos they HAVE to, just because it would be nice (and I include P&C spaces in this)!
It used to annoy me the most in the CLIMBING CENTRE in Edinburgh. Perfectly able-bodied people who were there to climb hundreds of ft were in the lift (with their climbing harnesses on) when people with prams had to wait for ages. Often bunches of teenagers. It is the slowest lift in the world too.
Oh and the lift in John Lewis in Edinburgh is the same, although you have to walk past the escalator to get to it. I think it has a sign asking for people to leave it for buggies/elderly/wheelchairs etc however. I am so happy that I a) never go to real shops any more and b) no longer have a buggy.
Train stations are pretty bad. Especially the one at Westfields.
I remember in my old job it used to drive me nuts when people used to get in the lift on the first floor to go down to the ground.
In my local John Lewis I think a lot of people use the lift because it goes to the underground car park.
No suggestions about lift etiquette or how to get people to move. I used to live near a shopping centre where I think you could have waited all day to use the little glass lifts that went up and down in the main 'atrium'. However, there was a lift in a the linked department store that nobody seemed to use except staff (Near staff canteen, not a goods lift!).
Maybe scope out the store a bit?
If you'd been waiting 10 minutes for a lift, presumably everyone else on the lift had been waiting about the same amount of time? I don't think I would have given up my spot either, TBH, but if I'd met you by the stairs I would've offered to help you carry the pram.
FWIW, people hailing lifts when they are full is part of the reason they get clogged up - the whole thing takes longer to get between the required floors to deposit shoppers, so fewer people are able get off. I think I would've just gone away and come back again in a few minutes to see if the backlog had cleared.
And yes, I always get electric shocks in Peter Jones too!
In this situation in the (long distant) past, I've enlisted the shop assistant's help to find a way to make a space in the lift.
But <long sigh > I remember when Dickins & Jones had lift operators who would have cleared a space
impossibly old fogey
YANBU OP, I get full on rage at lazy fuckers who can't be bothered to walk up a set of stairs or even a bloody escalator!
Lifts are for the disabled and for pushchairs, you know people who can't physically use the alternatives.
DP is very vocal about this and has several times asked people to let me in a lift with the pushchair.
Probably not the case here but the mall in our city centre has this problem. The reason most people choose to use the lift instead of the escalators is because you have to walk around half of the mall to get to the next down (or up) escalator, they are not side by side. The down escalator is alongside the up escalator, iyswIm
Obviously this is because the owners hope people will be attracted by the stores they have to walk past to get to the next escalator but to most people it is a nuisance, especially if it's crowded.
So they take the direct route using the lift. Shopping centres should have escalators phased so that there is a direct route up and down. I think that would help.
Harrods might still have lift operators? Maybe shop there? .
YANBU. The lifts are the slowest in the world in PJ. And the lifts are right by the stairs for the escalator-phobic.
I always get massive electric shocks in there too. I go around with my hands covered by my sleeves. It really hurts!
Demographic is a bit <ahem> eclectic at that store.
As far as I remember the demographic of Sloane Square is confused tourists. Maybe everybody was just stressed and lost and trying to find a loo.
If you'd been waiting 10 minutes for a lift, presumably everyone else on the lift had been waiting about the same amount of time?
No, because the OP was unable to get into the lifts that did arrive because she needed space for the pram.
OP, YANBU, I am often surprised at how selfish society has become. No, they didn't have to move but it wouldn't have cost them anything to do so. It is extremely unlikely that every single person in all the lifts had some kind of disability that required them to use a lift not an escalator.
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