Ready to be flamed.....

(135 Posts)
Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:20:44

My dd has just started Reception. An old friend (different schools) has invited her to a birthday on Sun which we rsvpd yes 2 weeks ago. She's just been invited last minute to a class party (no particular friend) and wants to go as she doesn't want to miss out being with new friends. My old friend (lots of history.....) is not going to like it but I don't want to force my daughter to "do the right thing".....I just want to let her choose. WIBU to un RSVP and tell my friend the truth?

I don't want to force my daughter to "do the right thing".....I just want to let her choose. She will learn that lesson, and well. Do you want that? Or, do you want her to learn to do the right thing, even when it is hard or upsetting?

OliverBoliverButt33 Fri 11-Oct-13 00:24:00

I think your friend will understand. I would. Just be VERY apologetic, explain that it's a whole class party and your DD would be the only one not there and make sure her DD gets a nice prezzie & card and some fun playtime together.

Absolutely tell your friend the truth though.

Nombrechanger Fri 11-Oct-13 00:25:59

Is it a kids party you're turning down with your old friend?

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:25:59

Yes you would, it's rude to accept an invitation then ditch it when something else better turns up.
You should be teaching your DD better manners.

I do get where you're coming from with regard to new friends but there will be plenty more opportunities.

LackaDAISYcal Fri 11-Oct-13 00:26:55

Could you do half time at one party and half at the other?
Then DD gets to spend time with her new friends and your old friend isn't insulted?

or just say something has come up and you can't make it after all. No need for a further explanation really.

or feign illness and hope that your old friend doesn't know anyone at the new party?

Or, just tell her and acceot that it might be a nail in the coffin of that particualr friendship.

I'd hope though, that as a mother herself, she will understand the need for your DD to be involved in her new class.

PedlarsSpanner Fri 11-Oct-13 00:27:01

You can be as rude as you like to your old, dear friend but don't come crying to us in a few years when last minute/second tier guestlist party invites dry up and your old friend has cast you aside as a lost cause

HTH

Pagwatch Fri 11-Oct-13 00:27:35

It would depend on a couple of things.
If the old friend is having a gaggle of children in a relaxed setting I might speak to her. If she has very few children going and/or a paid for activity I would probably get my DD to go to the party we/she agreed to attend.

There will be other class parties. I would feel dreadful declining anything after I has accepted but maybe the old frind won't care.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Oct-13 00:29:39

Your DD will have plenty of opportunities to attend the parties of her classmates. I think she would benefit more from going to the old friend's birthday. Also OP do you really think that she should let down her old friend because she has new ones?

Joiningthegang Fri 11-Oct-13 00:29:44

I think yabu - the lesson you would be giving your daughter is that it is perfectly fine to dump someone if something else better comes along.

Although, i must say it also depends on the party your friend is having - is it a few friends (up to 10) type organized party, or a big hall type party where she would be barely missed.

Given it is this Sunday I would explain to dd that you already have plans and she should stick to what has been accepted.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:31:12

i wouldn't tell your friend the truth if you know she won't like it. Tbh I'd be a bit narked if an old friend had said her dc was coming to my dc's party then knocked us back last minute for something more preferable.

If you want to allow your dd to go to the school friend's party then I'd tell old friend a white lie and say she was ill. Leave it a couple of weeks before the dc see eachother in case your dd lets the cat out of the bag, but try to get the card and present to the child without your dd there as it will remind her of the occasion and she might blurt something out.

LackaDAISYcal Fri 11-Oct-13 00:31:30

I'm having a similar issue with my DD at the minute as well coincidentally. She accepted an invitation to a party, and then I found out we had tickets to the MN Cloudy w Meatballs thing. She has decided, after a lengthy inner debate, to do the right thing and go to the party. I did give her the choice to cancel though, but explained that her friend might not be very happy she had changed her mind. She is 6.5 though so probably a bit more socially aware than a 4/5 year old.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:33:47

I don't see it as a white lie, I see it as a lie and I see it as teaching your DD that it's ok to lie if something better turns up.

Balaboosta Fri 11-Oct-13 00:35:30

Poor form. Bad lesson for daughter. What are you thinking of?

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:36:47

Well a white lie is well-intentioned lie in the interests of tact, diplomacy and politeness so imo fits the bill here.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:37:19

Both parties are big hall type things and my old friend has a magician booked. It's not so much ditching the old friend for better new friends I just want my daughter who is finding the whole "making new friends" thing a bit of a struggle to not miss this opportunity. I suppose deep down I also want her to go to this first party and be invited to others. If the situation was flipped I would be understanding ( I'm fairly easygoing) but my friend is less so. Really don't want to lie....I think once honesty is gone, the friendship is dead.....

Really appreciate all the input though....

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:37:25

And if you pretend your DD is ill how will you explain it if your friend pops round to see how she is or keeps her a party bag for later because she feels sorry that your DD has had to miss out on the birthday party.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:38:32

I'm not saying I agree with what OP is proposing mind, I just said if she decides to let her dd go to school party then a white lie will avoid hurting her pal's feelings.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:39:24

They all find new schools a bit of a struggle.
Lying to save someone's feelings is one thing, lying to get out of something because you'd rather be somewhere else is another.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:40:25

Well just arrange to see her in a couple of weeks. I don't know whether the popping in scenario is likely, the OP knows better than me confused.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:40:52

Slippery slope imo, one lie always leads to another.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:42:01

"Lying to save someone's feelings is one thing, lying to get out of something because you'd rather be somewhere else is another."

Kind of both in this case.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:42:52

Okaaay.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:43:23

She has actually been sick....ridiculously enough...which is why the invite's been sitting around since last Friday in her tray and this is so rudely short notice.... But I just can't lie (eventhough I'm all for the feelings' saving white lie every now and again). My 4.5 year old just doesn't get the social rules yet and I suppose I don't want to push the emotional guilt button in this situation.

How would you feel if it was your dd being let down and pushed aside because basically she is "old news"? I could never knowingly be so unkind especially to a child.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:45:26

Whatever, I don't like lies or liars, you can't trust someone if they lie to you.
If you really want her to go to the second one then tell your friend that.
Then your DD isn't going to have to 'remember' she was ill and had to miss the party when your friend asks her how she is now.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Oct-13 00:45:33

Then don't. Be the adult and you make the decision.

Nombrechanger Fri 11-Oct-13 00:46:04

I think it's very rude and hurtful if you turned your old friend down. You're insulting her child by choosing another kid over her.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:46:51

She definitely won't pop over, our friendship has been turbulent in the last couple of years (rather not get in to it) but definitely still want us to have a relationship. Quite honestly, I'm realising this s more about OUR relationship in many ways rather than the party. First world problems......

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:48:22

Oh missed your update OP. Well if you don't want to do the white lie thing then yeah, tell her the truth but be prepared for her to be a bit hacked off.

Or just stick with the original plan and go to mate's party. Not all the class will be attending this party, and tbh you say the invitation came last minute, so maybe dd was on a 'standby' list and only got invited when others said they couldn't make it.

Pagwatch Fri 11-Oct-13 00:49:51

I agree with Dionne tbh.

You are talking about this in really emotive terms as if your daughter will be burdened.

Why cn't you just say 'oh what a shame. We have already booked to go to xxx party. Still you will have a lovely time and we can invite xxx over to tea instead. Won't that be lovely. There are going to be lots of school parties....' and stop making it about her moral choices.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:49:55

I honestly don't think her daughter will mind too much. She'll have her new school friends plus old nursery friends there and in some ways I'm also worried DD will feel the odd one out. We only get together once a month at most these days.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:52:17

You're right Lazygaga I think she was probably on the standby list which is why I can see why she wants to go. SHE doesn't realise there is a standby list but I do......just want her to make some friends.

May09Bump Fri 11-Oct-13 00:53:00

I've always experienced its better to look after outside school friends more than school friends as kids / parents are always falling out in school and its better to have a broader range of friends in this circumstance.

I think it's quite rude to accept then ditch for another invite. It would be better to invite more kids to play after school if she is finding it hard to make friends. I do understand where you are coming from though.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:53:03

How old is your DD?

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:54:19

I have never heard of standby lists for children's parties, how sad to think you might be on one.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 00:54:26

Keep x posting here. Off to bed but I'm a bit confused that PP states lies are never good, liars are not to be trusted etc. I had a mid pregnancy bleed with dc2, very scary, had a night in hospital, everything turned out fine. My DM rang me later in the week asking if we'd had a good weekend, how was I so I lied and said all was well and we'd had quiet weekend. I lied because my DM would've worried herself sick and constantly stressed for the rest of the pregnancy. It was a white lie to protect her and doesn't make me a shitty, untrustworthy person.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:56:30

Hardly the same LazyGaga.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Oct-13 00:56:45

Lazy, it is never good (or reliable) to teach a 4yo to lie.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 00:58:05

She's 4.5 reelingintheyears too young to understand the social rules but I agree with a lot of the others...maybe she never will unless I start reinforcing them early. I just wish this situation was less emotionally loaded....it is just a party.

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 11-Oct-13 00:58:45

OP, you say you want this friendship to continue. Please take Pags advice and tell your DD that as you RSVPd, you have to go.

May09Bump Fri 11-Oct-13 00:59:13

God, standby lists - how depressing. I'm sure your LO will make friends - do invite kids back after school, it's easier to make friendships 1 to 1 anyway.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 00:59:57

It's not just social rules though is it.
It's teaching her that lying is ok if you can get away with it.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 01:03:11

Yes well you're making blanket statements reelingintheyears so I'll throw the kitchen sink in.

Who's teaching the 4 yo to lie? The OP is not going to get her dd to phone up and make her excuses. I have a just turned 5 yr old. in a scenario like this she would forget completely about the mate's party and be entirely focused on the school one.

I've never said I agree with ditching the prior arrangement. However, OP was asking about the best way to approach it and said her mate would be upset if told the truth.

I've never said I agree with ditching the prior arrangement. Just repeating that to make my point.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 01:03:17

Reelingintheyears I really have no intention to lie to my friend. I've always said that I would be honest with her...I just know that she'll be hurt rather than just seeing it as a way for my dd to make some new friends.

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 01:08:07

Lazygaga you hit the nail on the head...she's excited about the new school party that she doesn't even think about her old friend's party. She just said to me after I explained that we'd already said yes that "it's ok we can give her her present next time we see her". How do you make a 4.5 year old understand that it's not about the present? I also keep coming back to that actually the kids are not going to let this effect their relationship but it could very well effect ours....

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 01:09:19

A 4 year old will not know about any excuse or lie. A 4 year old will not ask "What have you said to X about me not going to her party? I need to know what reason you've come up with in case I'm cross examined." A 4 year old will be entirely focused on doing the thing that appeals to them most.

I've never said I agree with ditching the prior arrangement.

Standby list - they're not a thing. Just seemed like short notice but then OP explained the invitation had been in drawer.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 01:10:03

Sorry OP X post again!

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 01:13:42

Looks like it's you and me Lazygaga...what do you really think? Can a party really mean so much to us adults because as you sort of said the kids are only focused on the present and will hardly notice.

Itsaboatjack Fri 11-Oct-13 01:20:58

How far away are the parties? Is there anyway she can go to the old friends first, drop off a pressie, stay for a while and then go later to the new friends party?

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 01:23:21

It's definitely possible Itsaboatjack. Just don't know how to split it as first half is usually fun and second is food. Feels a bit rude to drop in and eat.....

Onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 01:29:03

Going to bed now. Thanks for all your advice will sleep on it....

I was your friend in this exact situation a wee while back and everybody started to cancel (after RSVPing) until one person was left and attended my daughter's party. None of them were school friends as DD is home educated and the mums knew me personally. I felt very upset on behalf of my DD who had a lovely party laid on for the few children that were invited and it has changed a couple of friendships forever as far as I am concerned. I felt my daughter had been let down and it was horrible to see her trying to put on a brave face.

Good manners would mean you should not cancel one invitation to take advantage of a more favourable invitation.

Caitlin17 Fri 11-Oct-13 01:34:54

Unaccepting an invitation you've already accepted just because something better has turned up, no matter what your age, is unacceptable behaviour.

FixItUpChappie Fri 11-Oct-13 03:14:42

What if your not the only one ditching your old friends kid for a better option, out of laziness or whatever? Suddenly her kid is sitting there with no friends at their birthday - it DOES happen. How would you like that to happen to your daughter? Would you like to go to the effort to plan and organize something and have guests drop off like flies because - "oh well, its not big deal right?". Not to you anyway.

I think its a shitty message and very unfriendly of you. You know your friend will be hurt but are looking for a way to justify it....I think that is pretty unfriendly too.

fuckwittery Fri 11-Oct-13 03:31:59

I would have said immediately on receipt of invite oh dd we're already going to friend1's party, its going to be brilliant, she's got a magician, you can't not go she'll be so upset, we'll make a lovely card for friend2 though shall we.
I.e. not dither and give her any expectation or choice going to about new classmate party.

Really don't think you should ditch invite1 for 2, will really risk upsetting first party mum. There will be loads of reception parties and I remember dd1 not going to a few as we had out of school friend parties. I also don't think an all class party will have any effect on your daughter trying to make friends, they all run about screaming 4 and 5 yr olds wont really remember who's there or not there after a day, she'll make friends over time in the classroom, in the many shared experiences to come day in day in school.

fuckwittery Fri 11-Oct-13 03:39:08

*day in day out in school

In fact i'd say all class parties are rubbish as friend making activities, kids way too excited. More an opportunity for parents to meet socially. OP just think of all the time your dd is spending in the classroom and playground, her opportunities for friend making are there not a 2 hr party. Yes kids will be excited and talking about party in run up to class but i promise as soon as party day is over its forgotten, never known my dd to still be talking about a party on the monday afterwards, v v much doubt reception kids talk about a party at school afterwards in the who was there who wasn't!

BraveMerida Fri 11-Oct-13 04:45:16

YABU

This is an opportunity to explain to your dd what the right thing to do is and why.

If my DD had the choice, she would be eating chocolates for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and would be doing zero homework....but she doesn't, because I'm the parent and she doesn't understand that she doesn't always know what's best for her.

kali110 Fri 11-Oct-13 06:23:19

Tough spot to be in but think yabu if you cancel on your friend. It will teach your daughter bad manners and bad habits.
Plus big chance your dd will let cat out of bag if you see your friend after, or before!

PoisonousCentipede Fri 11-Oct-13 06:47:51

Fuckwittery has it spot on.

Fakebook Fri 11-Oct-13 07:13:32

YABU. You always go to the event you rsvp'd for unless its an emergency.

Also, do people really have stand by lists? Sounds horrible.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 08:13:28

Sorry OP I'd gone to bed. Also sorry but I agree with the other posters who say you should stick to your original plans and take dd to the party accepted first for the reasons outlined above by other posters.

The whole thing got a bit sidetracked by ways of trying to soften the blow if you were determined to cancel. Personally I would rather have someone bail out on me because the were 'ill' (whether the truth or not) than because they'd had an offer which was more appealing.
I think you should do the right thing. Honestly your dd will have loads of other class party invitations in Reception (my 5yr old is the youngest of three, I'm all partied out these days!).

HarryTheHungryHippo Fri 11-Oct-13 08:32:59

I'd try and do both. Do they both start at exactly the same time? Surely there must be a bit of overlap for you to spend an hour at each. Maybe you could even go to old friends a bit early on top, let you dcs play together and help her set up?

Jollyb Fri 11-Oct-13 08:49:09

I really don't see that missing a class party is going to affect her chances of making friends.

redskyatnight Fri 11-Oct-13 08:55:32

At this stage in a Reception term, the parent of the classmate has invited everyone in the class as a politeness, and has sent the invites last minute because they don't actually want everyone to turn up.

I'm sure your DD would have a great time at both parties and it's just rude to cancel the acceptance already made. DD will have many more class parties - but limited opportunities to meet old friend.

If you're worried about DD making friends, a big party in a hall is really not going to help her - invite 1 or a small group of children round to your house.

Jinty64 Fri 11-Oct-13 09:02:48

You have accepted the first invite and that is where you should go. Invite some dc's round after school or, if you work full time as I do, invite them to soft play, pictures etc at the weekend. She will soon make friends.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:04:36

This situation is one of my unmovables.
I think it is the height of bad manners to ditch an arrangement in favour of a better offer. Unless circumstances are exceptional, which they aren't here, you stick with what you agreed to do first.

I know loads of people who think nothing of ditching for a better offer, and they will lie, or just bare face it out unapologetically. I think those people will pass on the idea that it is fine to prioritise yourself and let other people down if you feel like, to their children.

Those values promote bad manners, lack of consideration, and selfishness. Not something I wish to teach my kids.

Buglugs Fri 11-Oct-13 09:05:25

Unaccepting an invitation you've already accepted just because something better has turned up, no matter what your age, is unacceptable behaviour

I agree with this. You'll seriously piss your friend off by the sound of it. I've just had to cancel dd's first school party because she is ill. It's unfortunate but these things happen. There'll be others I'm sure.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 09:12:20

Lazy, we'll have to disagree then, but it wasn't the OP who suggested lying in the first place it was you who said don't tell your friend the truth.

The child wouldn't be making up the lie but I think you teach by example when they are small.

geekgal Fri 11-Oct-13 09:16:39

It's just a bloody kids party, no one will care in six months, so do what your DD wants to do! Yes, for grown ups it is rude to ditch a PERSON but not a PARTY if something better turns up - seriously, if you'd agreed to go round to your friend's house with loads of other people to watch tv but someone else gave you an offer of a free jet to Paris and champagne cocktails with (insert name of favorite celeb here) you'd turn them down?

Also in twenty years time NONE of these kids will even know each other, so for the sake of getting along better every single day at school I'd say pick the second party, she won't be hanging out with the kid from the first party every day and the other kids at the second party will form groups that don't include your daughter if she doesn't. Etiquette unfortunately means nothing to 4 year olds, they won't care if she does the polite thing!

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 09:19:58

No, you're right geekgal, they probably won't know each other in twenty years time but the example you set in their early years means they will probably still be stitching their mates for something better even then.

Nothing means anything to a four year old socially, that's why we teach them manners.

fluffingtons Fri 11-Oct-13 09:21:31

I think you should bite the bullet and tell your friend the truth. It sounds to me like you two are the friends here and your children are just chummy through you. I think it will be hard for your Daughter on monday morning at school when everyone else is talking about the party they all went to together. She's 4, she shouldn't have to 'do the right thing', as long as you are honest and maybe pop by later on to give a present and say happy birthday to your friends child then your friend should be satisfied you didnt just forget the birthday. The child will probably just be happy to get another gift! And i would also worry your daughter would gte pushed out if she only really knows your friends child. I went to a party for my niece recently and there was one little girl a year younger than the rest and she only knew my niece because their mums were friends. She looked so lost and out of place bless her.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:22:37

- seriously, if you'd agreed to go round to your friend's house with loads of other people to watch tv but someone else gave you an offer of a free jet to Paris and champagne cocktails with (insert name of favorite celeb here) you'd turn them down?

Well those would count as exceptional circumstances wouldn't they, so it's a moot point.

Two parties are like for like, and it is common decency to stick with what you agreed.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:23:09

Nothing means anything to a four year old socially, that's why we teach them manners.

Exactly!

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 09:23:35

Pictish, quite.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 09:24:14

Ha!

comewinewithmoi Fri 11-Oct-13 09:24:19

I would let dd go to her school party. She's just started, making friendships is important. You friend is an adult.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:28:31

Parties are neither here nor there when it comes to enduring friendships at school. They are a mish mash of noise and sugar, and no bonding takes place whatsoever.
Friendships are important, but whole class parties really and truly do not influence them.

kerala Fri 11-Oct-13 09:28:50

Caitlin is right its shoddy to bail on an invite you have accepted because a "better" one came along. I was always taught this as a child and its stuck. I wouldnt want to be that person or teach my child to be.

I remember my friend who accepted a wedding invitation of an old school friend she didnt see often then was invited to a wedding of a much closer friend geographically nearer where all her other pals were going to be on the same day. Because she is honourable she went to the first wedding despite being gutted at missing the other one. She had been single for ages and at the wedding she didnt want to go to met her lovely DH smile they now have 2 gorgeous kids karma!

There will be loads of parties. Missing one wont make much if any difference to your childs social development.

Mumsyblouse Fri 11-Oct-13 09:30:17

All class parties as others have said, are not the best place to make friends. And making friends is not a one off thing that if they don't make friends in week 3 of their new school they will never have friends, children leave and join classes, friendships shift. You will have plenty of opportunities to ask children over for tea, have your own party and make friends that way and attend other parties.

Your dd is only going on about the whole class party as you have let her. The second you saw the date clash, you should have said 'but we are going to X's party that day, what a shame, perhaps we can have new classmate round for tea'.

I often ask old friends/friends of the family along to our birthday parties to keep the overall connection with the family/kids that is very easily lost. If they cancelled on me, I would be a bit annoyed really.

This is not debatable at all to me, but I understand your anxiety over your dd making friends, but relax, they really do and it's not all about one event in the first term.

MillyONaire Fri 11-Oct-13 09:31:07

Go to the one you have committed to and invite the class birthday girl over for a playdate later in the week or next weekend.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 09:32:55

Or have a class party of your own for your own DD.

reelingintheyears Fri 11-Oct-13 09:34:41

Is this standby thing a new thing, I've never heard of it but it sounds awful.

geekgal Fri 11-Oct-13 09:38:55

Ok, that example is a bit extreme, but think of it in adult work terms then - party 1 is an old work colleague who invites you out to hang out with your other old work colleagues (who you like but only really knew through your old job) and party 2 is a new work colleague at the place you've just started at that you're having problems adjusting to and forming new groups in order to one day gain a promotion? Again, you'd still choose party 2, and only a fool would flame you for that choice.

And I agree with fluffington, it sounds like party 1 kid isn't really that close to DD anyway and it's more the parents that are friends. In that case, again, you'd choose party 2 as it's unfair to make your kid miss out on a party they want to go to in order to go to one that neither of the kids are really that bothered about. Like she said, give her a present later, that's probably mostlywhat she's interested in anyway.

fluffyraggies Fri 11-Oct-13 09:40:30

I second pictish.

If your DD was, say, 7,8,9 or up i would say perhaps attending/not attending the school party may have more influence over her friendships or bonding. At 4 i don't think it's going to make any difference either way. Honestly.

(and i know about little girls and schools and friendships - worked in a primary school + 3 teen DDs of my own grin )

So i would say on this specific occasion you should honour your original arrangement.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:40:44

I know how I regard people that ditch for a better offer, and it is not favourable at all.

If someone does this to me or my kids (and it has happened) and the reasons are spurious, I just cease to give a fuck about them, and strike them off my list of people to consider.

There is an extra special level of contempt for those that make up lies, and offer them up by way of explanation.
Arseholes.

heartichoke Fri 11-Oct-13 09:43:52

but I don't want to force my daughter to "do the right thing"....

Why not? Do you want her to grow up to be rude and selfish? Surely it's our job as parents to forceteach our children to "do the right thing"?

I agree with fuckwittery about immediately pointing out acceptance of a prior invitation - and in similar situations in the past, this is what I've done.

Similarly to not wanting to lie, surely this is a social no-brainer?

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 09:45:22

Just got to whatever party you want and politely inform the other.

You're not teaching her social rules, your teaching the angst women tend to have when trying to be people pleasers. She's FOUR, it really doesn't matter whether she goes to one party or another. Why make it such a big deal?

geekgal Fri 11-Oct-13 09:48:26

I don't consider this excuse to be spurious - if one of my friends said to me that their child was having problems making friends at school so they really wanted that kid to attend said party to try and make some then I would be ok with that. My friendship is already there, and I have enough of my own friends to not be too concerned if someone didn't come to my kids magic show - there will be other magic shows!

Gingersstuff Fri 11-Oct-13 09:48:40

You're making this into a massive deal when it needn't be, OP. It's really simple. Tell your daughter that as you've already accepted the first invite, you'll be taking her to that party as anything else would be extremely bad manners.
There will be ample opportunities for her to cement her new friendships quite apart from birthday parties. Missing the second one will not scar her for life.

geekgal Fri 11-Oct-13 09:49:34

PeppiNephrine FTW!!!

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:53:01

I don't consider this excuse to be spurious - if one of my friends said to me that their child was having problems making friends at school so they really wanted that kid to attend said party to try and make some

I do consider it spurious...and nowhere has the OP said her dd is having trouble making friends...you just made that up to back up your argument that it is fine to let people down and treat them as disposable.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 09:54:52

And I know it's 'only' a kiddy party...but values are born from somewhere, and this is how it starts.
Do the decent thing from the outset, and those values will stick to your children.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 09:55:27

"Lazy, we'll have to disagree then, but it wasn't the OP who suggested lying in the first place it was you who said don't tell your friend the truth."

I suggested a white lie to preserve the friend's feelings if the OP was to cancel on her. That's all. OP said she'd rather be honest and tell friend the truth, that's entirely up to her.

In this situation I think it's about the adults appeasing one another. I'm doubtful the dd will take an important life lesson from this and remember it for all time. I can almost read her mind "Aargh, s'not fair, don't wanna go to that party, wanna go to this party! S'not fair!!!!".

I don't think the emotional maturity is there at 4 years old to understand the social etiquette side.

However I stick by my original assertion that speaking as an adult if I was the OP I would make my dd go to the first party - I couldn't bring myself to say to someone we're not coming because we'd rather be somewhere else. I wouldn't expect my dd to take much from it at 4 though.

I know people will now say these learning experiences are all incremental.

Pagwatch Fri 11-Oct-13 09:56:14

Ok. I stuck with it as long as i could...
This really is not a drama laced with moral questions and angst.

Just make a decision and tell your child in a matter of fact, upbeat way.

If you don't stop handwringing about every nuance of which party to take your four year old to, life will be a fucking nightmare by the time she is 10.

You are the adult. Just decide in te full knowledge that no one involved will even remember in a months time - assuming they have any sense.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:01:15

no idea what FTW means. Or why it necessitates 3 !.

It just does not matter. This board is full of women agonising over tiny imagined slights and unimportant dilemmas of their own making. We all do it. Why are we trying to train babies to do the same?

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:03:09

You're right Peppi - we should just doi what the fuck we feel like, and screw everyone else.
Good call.

I am not angsting or hand wringing over tiny thing...I'm just the sort of person who does what I say I will. Fancy that!

I tend to go by the rule that you go with the one you accepted first, but your friend might not mind if you explain to her, I personally wouldn't though.

I'm guessing that those of you astonished at reserve lists don't have dc with birthdays in Sept? Ds has just started a new nursery, we couldn't invite all the children he sees on different days, but wanted to invite those he got on well with. We didn't have a reserve list as such, but a few good friends were told about it initially, others we invited as he said he would like them to come. It might have looked like a reserve list (although we did explain to parents that it was because ds had asked for their dc to be there) was actually just that was how he was making friends.

When he starts reception he will probably know most children and will do a full class invite but it is hard when they have only just met each other to arrange a party.

I would maybe invite the birthday girl from the class back for a play date and maybe little present next week, but go to original party.

itsn0tmeitsyou Fri 11-Oct-13 10:10:12

You're right PippiNephrine. No one should give a fuck about anyone or anything, just behave in their own selfish, self-centred ways pleasing themselves, and if some pathetic little losers are going to get upset about it then that's their problem. If we were all like that the world would be a much better place. Go you!

TerrorTremor Fri 11-Oct-13 10:11:16

If your friendship is really turbulent then I would leave going to the party anyway. Unless your DD and her DD are very good friends, in which case I'd stick to that party because friends outside of school do have a tendency to last longer than just random friendships in school. This is in general though, not by all means scientifically proven.

When is your DDs birthday? If she does go to your friends party, couldn't she invite a bunch of her friends out to a fun party on her birthday to make lots of friends? That's if it's fairly soon that is, if it's in June that might not work quite as well.

papalazaru Fri 11-Oct-13 10:14:20

Never 'trade up' - its very bad manners. There will be lots of other opportunities to socialize with the reception kids.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:16:38

pictish, and the other one, its a childs birthday party. Chill the fuck out. Did I say we should ALL ALWAYS do as we like? no. Do calm down dears. hmm

Would you really send a little kid to a party they don't want to be at while one they really do want to go to is on? Why? They aren't going to have fun. But at least your manners will be good? Great parenting there!

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 10:20:08

"There is an extra special level of contempt for those that make up lies, and offer them up by way of explanation.
Arseholes."

For fuck's sake.

Is everything in life laden with moral dilemmas, ethical quandries, lessons to be learned? Even a kid's birthday party. How bloody exhausting.

Fuck me. There's black and white and shades of grey in between!

CrapBag Fri 11-Oct-13 10:21:20

YABU.

You want your DD to go to the second party so you are looking for validation that it would be ok to change your mind.

Its not ok, its downright rude.

So the whole class have been invited, they won't all be there. Maybe about half. This isn't some golden opportunity for them to all suddenly be best friends so stop thinking that it is. At this age, they won't remember who was at what party and all be talking about it after. DS has been to a few parties and they don't all go into school talking about it.

There is something going on with you and your friend. Tough. You accepted the invitation for your DD, you should stick to it. I wouldn't understand either in her shoes. It smacks of "we have a better offer so we aren't interested in yours now thanks very much."

Make a decision and stick to it. If you let your DD go to the class one, you aren't teaching her good manners at all but that's your prerogative I guess. And be prepared to not have much more to do with your friend, she may well see this as the nail in the coffin if the friendship is already drifting. If you weren't keen in the first place, you should have made an excuse not to go originally, not change it now.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 10:22:06

X post with Peppi.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:22:47

Where does the OP say her dd doesn't want to go to the first party? The dd was quite happy to attend the first, before the second invite came along!

She would prefer to attend the second, which is quite different from not wanting to go to the first.

Well there are times we would all prefer to do something else, but we stick to what we agreed because we are not ill mannered arseholes.
Or at least, I'm not.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:23:04

Ah, now I see. Is it yet another one of these terribly English horrors of appearing rude? Or saying that everything people do is rude?

How bloody tiring for you all.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:23:59

"
Well there are times we would all prefer to do something else, but we stick to what we agreed because we are not ill mannered arseholes.
Or at least, I'm not"

Are you sure you're not? But you're older than 4, right?

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:24:19

lazy - I was referring to life in general there, not specifically kiiddy parties...but yeah they come under that bracket too.

Just do what you said you would, no matter what the occasion. It's really that simple.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:27:01

Tiring...or considerate?

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:28:21

Really? So I said I'd have a coffee with you, but then I'm invited to a reception with the queen, and I say: no thanks, I'm busy!

People change plans all the time. Take the rod out of your arse and have a word with yourself.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:28:54

Totally agree crappy.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:31:22

Read the thread Peppi - I already said that exceptional circumstances such a tea with the Queen, would prevail.

Otherwise no. It's rude, socially inept and selfish, to ditch for better offer.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 10:31:35

Ok, that's your philosophy on life and you're entitled to it.

I'm the Machiavellian arsehole who suggested a white lie to keep the peace if the OP decided to cancel. And I'm quite happy with that!

Never the twain shall meet in this case.

LazyGaga Fri 11-Oct-13 10:32:47

Tea with the Queen? You can shove that up your arse, I'd rather go to the kid's party wink.

cheeseandpineapple Fri 11-Oct-13 10:33:22

Would call old friend and after initial pleasantries to establish everything on track for party eg check if lots of people coming would say,

"something's come up which I wanted to sound out with you. An invite for a class party for exactly same time as your dd's party was sent last week but dd was sick so only just got it.Ordinarily I would just turn the invite down but dd has been finding it really tough to make friends and settle into new class so a class party might really help her with feeling more connected and settled with her class. Really annoying that it's at exactly the same time as your party as dd's been looking forward to it and don't want to let your dd down but was wondering how your dd might feel if dd goes to other party and we could have your dd over for a birthday tea separately so we can give her pressie or take her out for a treat to make up for it as really keen to ensure that dd maintains her old friendships too, feel lousy even raising it but wanted to sound you out and see what you think. Personally would much rather come to yours and catch up with you and everyone else but also thinking this might be a chance to help dd settle better at school, what do you think?"

Chances are your friend will give you her blessing even if deep down she's miffed but at least you've been straight with her. It can be tough when kids start school and parties do help break the ice, that said, there are bound to be plenty more parties which your dd will be invited to as class parties tend to be the norm when they're younger, partic in reception so it's probably not her only chance.

Just be sure it's not going to be a big let down to your friend's dd if your dd doesn't come along so if during pleasantries your friend says oh it's a nightmare everyone's cancelling, then don't say anything just ask her if there's anything you can bring and how much dd is looking forward to it. Only if it sounds like everything is on track and most of her good friends are going would raise the possibility of other party, if you really think it will help your dd...

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:33:56

I didn't even see your post suggesting the OP lie. I was talking about my own experiences there.
And yes - I think they are arseholes.

Viviennemary Fri 11-Oct-13 10:34:16

She should learn good manners and go to the party she has accepted the invitation for.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:34:30

How very exhausting it must be to be so rigid.
You're welcome to your own opinion though you might want to be a bit less proper, it's not the beacon of good manners you seem to think.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:35:19

Me too lazy grin

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:36:03

Oh I am far from proper Peppi - but I am considerate to my friends. smile

CrapBag Fri 11-Oct-13 10:36:49

Peppi if you think its ok to cancel on friends when a better offer comes along and everyone should be ok with it because we all live with rods in our arses and need to be more free and easy going then you are not a considerate person and clearly have no respect for people.

I certainly wouldn't be friends with people who think its ok to treat others like that.

mrsjay Fri 11-Oct-13 10:40:48

well I think you are teaching your dd to be rude and you are not doing the right thing because you are now dismissing your friends party for some random school child just because you dont want your dd to miss out, I would be hurt and wouldn't understand if my friend did this to me, your dd has years of parties she is not going to be a social outcast because she didnt go to a school party,

mrsjay Fri 11-Oct-13 10:43:08

and by nt going to the first party isn't appearing rude it is rude, it is saying well this is more important than that

pootlebug Fri 11-Oct-13 10:43:22

Peppi your coffee v tea with the Queen analogy is missing the point. This is rather that you've arranged coffee with a friend and another friend that you're keen to get to know better asks if you can do coffee at the same time. Most people would say they had a prior arrangement, not cancel in favour of the better offer. Nothing to do with rigid rules, just basic politeness.

PeppiNephrine Fri 11-Oct-13 10:44:34

If you don't read the posts don't comment on them. Especially with idiotic generalisations that say more about you.
I wouldn't want to be friends with people who get shreiky if kid doesn't come to their kids party for whatever reason. And I reckon all you "its rude" types do this anyway, you just justify it to yourself when you do it.

Hiding thread. You folks are too much like hard work.

mrsjay Fri 11-Oct-13 10:47:16

och well peppi i am sure you are as fickle as your sound on here lets just all do what suits us and feck other peoples feelings sigh

AbiRoad Fri 11-Oct-13 10:50:19

My DDs were invited at that age to parties of friends from nursery who had gone to different schools. I have to say that they did not particularly enjoy them as old friend was mainly hanging out with their new school friends and they did not know anyone else. They are twins so could at least hang out together, but would have been tough if they had gone on their own. So I can understand why your DD prefers to go to the school party, but I think you are stuck with the original acceptance. In your situation, if it was a good friend I would be minded to mention the situation in passing phrased on the basis that she is going to original party... "DD is struggling with making friends and was delighted to get the invitation but shame she cant go as on the same date etc etc"... I think most of my friends would in that situation say oh of course she must go to new party, in which case I would probably let her go and immediately arrange something else with friend and DC at my expense. If friend did not offer the get out I would stick with the original invitation.

pictish Fri 11-Oct-13 10:50:55

Awww poor Peppi - hahahahaaa! grin

Never mind love - you hide the thread and tell yourself you're not a selfish git, and it's everyone else that's in the wrong with their boring old manners and consideration for others. Lovely!

CrapBag Fri 11-Oct-13 10:56:46

pictish grin

PatoBanton Fri 11-Oct-13 11:01:58

We have missed LOADS of parties and I've never even held one for my children till they got to about 7 anyway - their friendships have definitely not suffered as a result.

OTOH a friend your child rarely sees, well that will mean more than a party with kids she sees every single day iyswim.

I think you're overthinking it - just go to the original one you agreed to, and wait for the enormous number of class parties yet to come, especially in the summer months.

Everyone stops doing whole class stuff and often just does boys or girls once you get to KS2 anyway. Or just a few mates to the cinema, etc.

I hate the social pressure and find that they just encourage children to go apeshit, it's the pack mentality, someone always gets hurt, etc etc.

onlylonelymonster Fri 11-Oct-13 12:49:16

OK...I seem to have inflamed loads of people and reading all your comments has definitely been food for thought. I decided to stick with the first party as we had rsvpd and I don't want to upset my friend (eventhough I personally wouldn't think it was a big deal myself). DD took it ok though was a bit anxious, with reassurance she seems fine. Really hope she has a good time now. Thanks for the advice everyone it helped.

PatoBanton Fri 11-Oct-13 16:09:33

Oh I think you have done the right thing - nice work smile

Beastofburden Fri 11-Oct-13 17:21:14

I would tell the child that she isn't free to accept because she has made a promise to someone else. She is absolutely old enough for this message; equally she is absolutely old enough to get the message that you can let people down if you feel like it.

If you worry she is missing out, hold your own class party around Christmas instead.

Beastofburden Fri 11-Oct-13 17:21:46

sorry- xposted- well done OP, right move.

think about having the 2nd party around xmas smile

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