To be a bit suspicious of all the wide eyed 'why do muslims' and 'is this racist' threads?

(435 Posts)
MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 12:55:18

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Yep, agendas ahoy.

TheVermiciousKnid Mon 07-Oct-13 12:59:24

Yanbu. Depressing.

Hayleyh34 Mon 07-Oct-13 13:00:24

YANBU

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 13:00:31

This thread comes a slight relief. I thought I was being paranoid and overly sensitive.

BuzzardBirdBloodBath Mon 07-Oct-13 13:00:50

Ah, she's onto em...

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:01:21

So are they targeting MN or are there just a lot of individual posters who are incapable of rational thought?

wigglesrock Mon 07-Oct-13 13:02:12

YANBU, it's just all a bit depressing and obvious now.

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:02:16

God yeah. Just posted similar on the 'black man' thread.

Beyond coincidence, replicates threads we've had relatively recently, lots of posters with names I don't recognise piling in to say things that are either disingenuous or unbelievably thick.

Dobbiesmum Mon 07-Oct-13 13:02:27

YANBU at all.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 13:02:55

They're like buses - you don't see one for ages then loads come along together.

The press seems to be keeping up with their 'outrage' stories too. That and Lauren Booth blabbering on (for the column inches) telling us all how right she is about religion and child rearing these days.

There are some 'you white people' and 'you lot all have underage sex' posters on here too which are equally as tiresome.

I suspect some bored/lazy 'journalists' or freelancers are just stirring the pot.

Ignore, don't engage and they will get tired. I'm just sticking to the baking threads for a while.

Mischief making morons. I ignore most but some just make you cross. It's too nice a day to spend time dealing with it. Ignoring works best....

Madlizzy Mon 07-Oct-13 13:05:09

I just ignore threads like that. They can only fan the flames if people engage.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:05:51

I am sick of it. But I can't stop myself posting when I see such utter crap. It is really boiling my piss.

ubik Mon 07-Oct-13 13:06:38

Why do you think journalists would post threads like this? What is there to gain exactly? It's not really a story is it?

'Some mumsnetters are really stupid shock'

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:06:48

Ah ha but thats where they are a bit different.
They tend to start off in a fairly benign way.
By the time you realise what is going on its too late.

You are sucked in.

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:07:07

Another one just popped up-imams advocating child marriage. OP is not getting an easy ride, thank heavens.

quoteunquote Mon 07-Oct-13 13:07:17

As long as you reply to the OP, with a genuine response, the information you share is sincere, it matters not if they are a troll.

Hopefully anyone who is reading, who maybe able to relate to the situation being discussed will find something useful in the responses,

If some sad sack wants to be a troll, let them, they always come unstuck eventually, none of us have to live with them, they fester all alone for eternity knowing that they will never be a complete person, just a shadow of their full potential, they choose to waste their one and only life, being sad and pointless.

We know they will never quite get it, because we never see threads started, "Help, I have a compulsive urge to troll all the time, how do I stop".

The Human race will always have the thick, stupid,vile and nasty, all we can do is hope that one day they will finally get what life is all about, unfortunately for the really sad ones, they don't.

I put the above on another thread couldn't be bothered to rewrite.

People who do care about animal welfare have opinions on halal meat, Forced marriage and women covering themselves up are issues that are relatively new problems introduced to society, these issues are going to come up time and again, either avoid the threads, give a genuine reply or report to MNHQ if you think the whole think has a fishy smell.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:07:27

And isn't it odd that Fruity has only posted on her thread about forced marriages and the latest Halal meat one? hmm

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:07:49

Mass comedy derail required. Where's Hullygully when you really need her?

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:09:13

I am just getting ready for DS2's Black History Month assembly.

Blood Pc GORN MAAAAD. You don't see a white history month do you? Huh, oh NO THAT would be racist and anyone who mentioned it would be put in jail.

I know because it happened to my mum's, friend's, great aunt.

Onesleeptillwembley Mon 07-Oct-13 13:09:14

YA totally NBU. It's quite patronising, as well.

We even had the "some of my friends are..." comment. You could almost play bingo.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:10:05

HOUSE! grin

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:11:39

They are not technically trolls though are they?

Trolls do stuff for a laugh or to cause problems.

This is different. They may be using trollish techniques but they are not inventing things. They believe it and are trying to spread the message.

Maybe.

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:12:21

Yes. Trolls don't proselytise.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 13:12:25

'Why do you think journalists would post threads like this? ' They are not 'proper' journos.

They are lazy hacks or 'oooh I have a blog, therefore I'm a journalist' types who are desperate to find an angle to 'funny forriners and the headscarved type story.

The sad thing is that an extreme opinion (from any angle) is often the 'unsaid thought'. I've read some doozies on here in the goodness-knows how many years I've been on here (about 7 or 8 now). Do we air them and give them the oxygen of ridicule or discussion?

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:12:26

They are vile. Just vile.

Inciting racial hatred.

gordyslovesheep Mon 07-Oct-13 13:13:10

Yes Mrs dv you don't get music of WHITE origin either ...its outrageous

I suspect the edl loving stuff may have started the current wave

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 13:15:15

oops missed a bit (fat fingers) 'funny forriners and the headscarved-peril'. I love a 'peril' angle.

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:15:55

The Headscarved Peril sounds like a rather cool superhero.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:16:24

We are all at peril of 'Sharon' law and being forced to worship Aslan I tell you! grin

YouTheCat
grin

MrsDeVere
Whilst they are possibly trying to spread a message they also give people the opportunity to answer that message. The poster on the Halal meat thread who refused to believe that most Halal meat slaughtered in the UK is pre-stunned exposed their agenda very clearly given that the report containing the relevant figures was produced by the RSPCA. However, at least the the facts were put on the thread so people who didn't know much about the issue could see the debate and decide for themselves.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:16:43

The mum of a black child who was wondering what all the fuss was about re the EDL?

Yeah, whatever.

gordyslovesheep Mon 07-Oct-13 13:17:11

They will make us all practice sharia law you know ...the forrin, creeping veil peril

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:18:03

That was just bizarre, that one. But at least these threads show up who the racists are.

nennypops Mon 07-Oct-13 13:18:28

Yup, I've definitely noticed it. My feeling is that it's EDL idiots or similar hoping to spread the agenda that being racist is somehow normal and acceptable.

Given how many posters are lapsing into txtspk recently, I wonder if there's an influx of Huns. Have they had the banhammer out recently?

noddyholder Mon 07-Oct-13 13:18:49

agree

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 13:19:09

MrsDV its muslim week. Next comes breastfeeding,then a dalliance into a lavish lifestyle on benefits,a bit of parent and child parking,the annual poppy thread and then the Christmas palavar.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:20:01

It makes it very difficult to have an actual discussion about issues around race and religion.

Its almost impossible for a black or Asian MNer to report a racist comment or attack.

They are almost always dismissed as being over sensitive.

tethersend Mon 07-Oct-13 13:20:10

I love it when someone comes along and claims that because their black friend is fine with it and thinks its a laugh, they speak for ALL black people EVERYWHERE and therefore the golliwog/B&W Minstrel show/burning cross is definitively not racist, as black people all have only one opinion and anyone who disagrees is a hand-wringing white liberal lefty PO trying to speak on black people's behalf which is actually RACIST.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:20:24

Of course, Poppy thread time! grin

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:21:18

Got it in one, tethers.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 13:21:22

I like Aslan. Come on, a cool lion? How many others gods can actually tear the baddies limb from limb and eat them?

The original Headscarved Peril (they eat their young you know...)
acorntoyshop.com/product/matrushka-doll/571/dolls/105/947/

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:21:25

I have reported a load of racist posts recently. Some upheld and some not.

DameFellatioNelson Mon 07-Oct-13 13:21:36

I agree - sometimes they are genuine and raise valid questions, but you can usually tell a thinly veiled dig a mile off. It's something in the tone of that faux concern/bewilderment.

thegreylady Mon 07-Oct-13 13:22:31

Hear Hear Mrs DV.I have just looked at one such thread and the barely veiled racism is shocking.I hate the references to 'Muslims' as if all were the same in their attitudes and practices.You wouldn't get away with 'Christians' or 'Jews' in the same way.

gordyslovesheep Mon 07-Oct-13 13:23:03

Oh good Lord yes the time of Winterval and 'them nylons banned Christmas' is almost upon us

gordyslovesheep Mon 07-Oct-13 13:23:44

My phone is racist it turned Muslims into nylons!

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 13:23:51

Aslan are an Irish band too which are quite good.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 13:25:06

Muslims banned nylons? Whatever next...

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:26:47

Bastards! grin

You can spot the dodgy questions a mile off - the OP will be new or have only recently joined and will only have posted on threads about their personal axe to grind.

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:29:30

Also, they answer no questions, generally, and the posts have a repetitive quality about them often as the OP sticks quite closely to the script.

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 13:30:00

No point letting off the Hully klaxon. We are not allowed to redirect conversation anymore. Its BULLYING.

curlew Mon 07-Oct-13 13:30:26

The difference with the current lot is they all seem to be able to spell "racist".

But as usual, they all have lots of black friends, and don't see colour.

Maybe they are softening up for the "we're not allowed to celebrate Christmas any more" threads?

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:30:58

Well, I will bully fucking racists 'till the cows come home. They've done it to me often enough, after all.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:31:57

Them Nylons....I sense a MN in-joke developing grin

I always look forward to the competitive fuckery on MN and FB around Poppy Day.

Who can care the most? Who can make the most heartrending claim to a connection to someone lost in WW1 (can't we all?P

When will the first post complaining about people on tv not wearing poppies pop up?

Who will claim to have been spat on for wearing a Poppy?

Who will just start ranting about 'Just you TRY and tell me not to wear one' in the manner of Harry Enfield's outraged Cab Driver.

Such fun

it isnt

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 07-Oct-13 13:32:35

YANBU MrsDevere, I really can't stand the "why do Muslims..." threads. If you really don't know: google it.hmm That's what god invented the Internet for.grin

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:32:38

One thing that I find quite heartening, is the fact that these arseholes get shouted down my the majority.

Portofino Mon 07-Oct-13 13:33:10

Gordy - I had a very disturbing conversation with dh at the weekend discussing secondary schools in Brussels. I mentioned that I was disappointed that all the recommended schools seem to be affiliated to the Catholic Church and have 2 hours per week of RC RE. We are not catholic and I would prefer that dd learnt about all religions, not just one. His response that at least the school was not likely to be 50% muslim children (like dd's current school).

I was shock and said "Did you mean to sound so rascist?" Dd's two best friends are muslim so i am in total shock that he seems to hold such views. He seems to have convinced himself that as a teenager, dd (who doesn't even belieive in God) would somehow be swayed to the "dark side" and mentioned those UK guys who go off to train to be terrorists. Dd's friend's mother is a medical secretary not a recruiter for Al-Qaeda hmm

I told him he was being a twat. But I think this is the danger of all this DM twaddle. He is not a stupid person and heads up the Diversity committee in his workplace. Stupid fears based on ignorance I put it down to. And all these stories just propogate that

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:33:49

by not my - daft fingers

curlew Mon 07-Oct-13 13:33:58

Shall I get things going by starting a thread about white poppies? grin

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 13:33:59

Don't get ahead of yourself, Mrs.DV, we're got a while to go for Poppy threads, it's 'PC-world-gorn-mad-is-this-racist-you-have-to-be-so-^careful^' week this week. Focus!

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 13:36:16

Oh I can always win the competitive sad story from forces one.

Dh fell off a ship serving in the Navy.

It is very important to remember when running along a ship that eventually the dry bit runs out. And the wet bits an awful long way down.

Now would someone like to pat my hand and stroke my hair after I relayed my heartfelt tale to you all?

magimedi Mon 07-Oct-13 13:36:25

Curlew you are wicked & I luff you!

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:37:09

I'm hoping he survived his ordeal, HoneyD?

thegreylady Mon 07-Oct-13 13:37:26

I want to be able to wear a poppy without being sneered at.
I want to be able to wear a white poppy alongside it to show that I remember and respect those who died and also that I want peace above all.
I will always respect the rights of those who choose not to wear any poppy but never their right to disrespect those who do.
I hate racism, terrorism,warmongering and sabre rattling.
I love my Muslim dgd as much as I love my RC and CoE dgc.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:37:32

Right I am off to the assembly now.

I may come back and start a thread about how pissed off I am that all they bloody went on about was singers and sports.

That should be fun.

Cheerio!

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 13:38:54

Honey
OH lost his Tank.

I think he and your DH should meet. They sound like they would get on.

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 13:39:08

Yes, YouTheCat, he survived. He didn't notice the internal bleeding till he'd driven 150 miles home either hmm.

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 13:40:15

I think they would MrsD. grin

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 13:40:22

Now there's been some changes regarding our post Christmas threads,the crap present brigade will go on after the bragging posts so they can get really riled up,regifting group will go up then and finally the Christmas dinner disasters can be smattered about for entertainment purposes.

Now all we need is the token .In-laws-from-hell thread.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:40:25

Grey, where are these people disrespecting anyone's right to wear whatever colour poppy they like? confused

thegreylady Mon 07-Oct-13 13:41:21

Why has a thread always moved on several posts by the time I finish mine? It makes me look like the wally [is that allowed/] I probably am!

BuzzardBirdBloodBath Mon 07-Oct-13 13:42:01

I think we should all be less up'tight' about the nylons grin

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:42:11

I like a good 'IL' thread.

My Granddad was a tunnel rat (was a miner) in WW1.

My dad was shot in the foot (he did it himself) in an attempt to get out of service in NI in the 50s as he was 18 and bricking it.

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 13:42:29

Thegreylady grin

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 13:43:12

grin

My nylons are too tight.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 13:43:58

No poppy threads yet,refer to careful listing on previous post. There's a schedule to follow.

Sked-ju-al
Shed-ju-al

For the pedantic grin

NoComet Mon 07-Oct-13 13:52:02

"Who can care the most? Who can make the most heartrending claim to a connection to someone lost in WW1 (can't we all?)"

Mrs DV that is getting close to offensive, as I do often genuinely mention my Grandfather on poppy threads out of genuine affection.

However, I won't take offence, because he would have hated the competitive patriotism that comes with Remembrance Sunday.

His life was saved by a German soldier who pointed him back to his own lines, when he was wandering dele riots and wounded in nomansland.

His thanks of his own government for being wounded at 17 was to do their dirty work in Ireland.

NoComet Mon 07-Oct-13 13:53:13

Delirious (I wish auto correct didn't split words so easily)

Thumbwitch Mon 07-Oct-13 13:59:18

I have seen around 3 or 4 thread titles that probably fit into the group you're talking about but haven't clicked on any of them.

I've had enough fun with the 2 nephew threads that were created by the hairy-handers!

nennypops Mon 07-Oct-13 14:01:43

No poppy threads yet,refer to careful listing on previous post. There's a schedule to follow.

Quite right. We've got to get through the Hallowe'en and Guy Fawkes threads first, probably with an oh-so-ingenuous query or two about Diwali thrown in as well.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 14:03:54

Well, it keeps me from the housework. grin

AmberLeaf Mon 07-Oct-13 14:07:59

YANBU

2tiredtocare Mon 07-Oct-13 14:10:12

I like the 'is this racist' threads because Sporks always comes to comment and she blows me away

Dawndonnaagain Mon 07-Oct-13 14:10:38

So bloody pleased it's not just me!

crescentmoon Mon 07-Oct-13 14:11:19

Thanks OP

BeCool Mon 07-Oct-13 14:14:32

Hang on we're still dealing with the "Stupid non-British American commercialised nonsense begging Halloween" threads, then we'll get the Guy Fawkes hysteria, THEN you can descend into poppy madness <all the while humming Christmas carols>

AmberLeaf Mon 07-Oct-13 14:14:35

YY Sporks is brilliant.

BeCool Mon 07-Oct-13 14:15:49

And Eid - I forgot Eid shock
<hangs head in racist shame>

thegreylady Mon 07-Oct-13 14:21:23

Hi Dawndonna [waves]

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 14:23:45

When's Diwali?

Can I just say - I really don't like the commercialised trick or sodding treat malarky. In my day it was turnip lanterns, home made cozzies and you did your party piece to get your sweeties/monkey nuts.

And party bags! In my day it was a flat balloon and a piece of birthday cake in a soggy tissue if you were lucky.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 14:26:42

You were lucky! We never had costumes. sad There was only a small, mouldy turnip. sad

No one got any birthday cake... because it was my bloody birthday cake, I tell you. MINE Mwahahahaha grin

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 14:26:56

How about we all substitute the poppy threads for mars bar thread.

'AIBU to be shocked that <insert minor sleb> is not wearing a mars bar?'
I tuned into <sleb contest> and was enjoying the show until I noticed that <minor sleb> had no mars bar on shock.
I know some people don't agree with the mars bar or have white mars bars but I think as a symbol of all who have died in war that they should be made to wear their mars bar.

WahIzzit Mon 07-Oct-13 14:27:08

Oh yes we have Eid next week. But which day will it fall on? I can already see it 'my Mozlem colleague has taken two holidays for Eid, Tuesday and Wednesday. Aibu to think its sooo backward that they cannot decide which day it is'

TheBigJessie Mon 07-Oct-13 14:27:39

YANBU!

Also, the Outraged With Poppy On Brigade has already started on Facebook.

Apparently I should share "if I don't care who my poppy offends". I considered asking "what if it was a war veteran who is offended?" but I decided to just ignore the victimhood. There's no point having an argument with someone who keeps sharing pictures saying "[insert company] have agreed to donate 50p for every person who shares this picture of an ill kitten who saved her owner's life".

I have never been hassled for wearing a poppy, and I doubt I ever will be...

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 14:29:39

Any of that shite on my wall and it's delete and block time.

roundtable Mon 07-Oct-13 14:30:54

Yanbu - I've stopped posting on the, 'I'm not a racist, honest - but...' as they go round in circles and I end up very disappointed.

I do read them to keep updated as to who the wankers are.

Enjoy the assembly. smile

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 14:33:04

I bet a white Mars Bar would be gorgeous. You'd so be sick but it would be worth it.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 14:34:28

I need a white mars bar.

But I've just eaten a huge slice of carrot cake.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 14:35:27

The poppy isn't generally worn here,can I please have a special How dare they not wear green on StPatricks Day thread instead??
We also don't do Guy Fawkes.

Echocave Mon 07-Oct-13 14:36:18

I think the majority of these posters are genuine. They have views a lot of people find offensive. They may also be thick.
Given some of the comments I hear down my local high street in London, I'm prepared to believe these are not trolls, lazy hacks or wind up merchants.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 14:37:11

They've already had Eid celebrations in Erskine.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 14:37:43

It really would be divine. I might pitch that idea....
White Mars bar™ .....for the 'I'm not a racist but' -in you

TheBigJessie Mon 07-Oct-13 14:37:54

YouTheCat I consider it regularly, but then I get invited to those urban rumour groups. I join them, just so I can post the snopes links on the group wall.

That superior feeling afterwards makes all the months of "share if you care!" posts worthwhile!

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 14:38:49

But why do they seem to join specifically to spout this shite? Either that, or they namechange to spout the shite.

If they are genuine members why not post under their usual name?

If they only joined to spread racist lies then they aren't genuine - they have an agenda.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 14:39:19

grin BigJessie.

Viviennemary Mon 07-Oct-13 14:39:38

YANBU. I reply to some of these threads and then look days later and they are still going strong. With people all trying to trip each other up and misunderstandings. And I do think it matters if the original OP is a troll. Why should I waste my time replying to trolls.

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 14:42:11

I'm struggling to stick to the point now. My head is full of chocolate.

But. I do think some posters have an agenda. Sorry but I do.

Dawndonnaagain Mon 07-Oct-13 14:48:16

<waves at the Grey Lady grin

Coupon Mon 07-Oct-13 14:51:24

These are interesting topics to discuss and it's perfectly possible to talk about these things sensibly. Obviously there are some people who just want to stir up trouble, but I think it would be a pity if some topics became taboo. We just need to ignore any trolls and debate everything in a respectful way.

DiamondMask Mon 07-Oct-13 14:57:01

tsk. You forgot hannukah. You like racist or something. Fit that in the shedjual. In between poppies n Winterval somewhere. And Thanksgiving grin

LittleMissGerardLouiseButler Mon 07-Oct-13 15:00:17

The thing I find scary is that while some posts are started to wind people up, there are people who actually hold these views and believe they are right!

Surely if you are having to ask if something is racist then it generally is, and if you are not sure, then don't say it?

Or is that too simple?

Oh and YANBU!

TheBigJessie Mon 07-Oct-13 15:17:46

I had a job interview/thingymajig the other week. I started chatting to the next person in the queue about safe topics (like how much unemployment sucks). He jerked his head at some of the other applicants and said, "you know our problem? We're the wrong ethnic [sic] these days".

There's plenty of racist idiots about.

2tiredtocare Mon 07-Oct-13 15:42:58

What a dick

BoreOfWhabylon Mon 07-Oct-13 15:54:12

YANBU MrsDeV

I have developed RSI of my reporting finger this week.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 15:56:19

StarBall but why is it close to offensive?

People have every right to be proud and affectionate about their relatives who have fought or otherwise served.

You must admit that people do get very competitive on anti Muslim/Bloody Poppy Haterz type threads.

'How dare they tell me I can't wear my poppy! I am in floods of tears today remembering my mum's, great-grandmother's second cousin'

They generally haven't a scooby what the poor bloke did or what happened to him and they wouldn't know the Western Front if it fell on top of them.

There cannot be family in the UK who has been left untouched by the ravages of WW1 let alone the conflicts that followed.

Remembrance Day is for just that. Remembering and honouring your Grandfather and my Grandfather and Great-Grandfathers and Great Uncles and all the young lives wasted.

Its really not for twats to compete about just how bloody patriotic they are. It is incredibly ironic how it has come full circle after finding its right tone after the initial jingoism of the early years.

Like you say, what would your Grandfather think of it?

For all my piss taking and ranting, this stuff does matter to me and I hate to see it co-opted by the likes of the EDL who know feck all about any of it.

I was the first to visit my Great Grandad's memorial at Tyne Cot.
I think every single member of the EDL should be forced to visit before they get to spout their hate filled tossery.

I doubt they would come back so full of themselves.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 16:01:38

Anyway....that wasn't meant to be rant against you star so sorry if seems like it. I was ranting about 'them', not you.

So just got back from DS's Black History Month Assembly.
Nothing to worry the Nylon Haterz and the PC Gorn Maaaaad lot.

Slavery - Check
Muhammad Ali - Check
Jayden and Willow Smith - Check
Bob Marley - Check

Actually Bob Marley was my fault because I have somewhat nudged DS in that direction and being Autistic he tends to get really enthusiastic about things.

They gave Nelson M an mention and a black lady astronaut but otherwise it was much as I expected.

Sigh.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:03:48

All of you are anti catholic,not one person wants to celebrate StArtaldus day. Shocked I am.

Needingthework Mon 07-Oct-13 16:05:15

Not sure why the EDL think they can hijack Poppy Day. Lots of soldiers from the Empire fought in WW1 for Britain as they did in WW2.

TheBigJessie Mon 07-Oct-13 16:06:33

<had to google Jayden and Willow Smith. Was disappointed by results. Thought they might have been famous scientists or something.>

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 16:07:03

What, no Barack Obama or Rosa Parkes or ancient African kingdoms or Timbuktu library or Aesop or anything? Boo hiss.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:12:08

What exactly have Jayden and Willow done?

nennypops Mon 07-Oct-13 16:14:28

Has the one about child brides disappeared? Were our suspicions about the OP realised?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:15:03

YANBU

<taps nose>

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:16:13

Is it OK to just say "you are unbelievably thick?"

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 16:17:49

No - the wording is '__I believe__ that you are incredibly thick'. Liable and all that...

TheBigJessie Mon 07-Oct-13 16:17:53

FreakinRex

Jaden has been born the son of two actors (Will Smith is good, imo- don't know the other half of the couple) and had some roles as an actor.

Willow has been born, and is launching her singing career. She's twelve.

RebeccaMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 07-Oct-13 16:18:29

Hi all,

We've had a few reports about this thread.

Can you please report anything nylon racist that you see and we will take a look. As you know, racist posts are against our Talk guidelines, as is Troll hunting and this thread does wibble on the edge of Troll hunt town.

Report, report, report - please grin

Dawndonnaagain Mon 07-Oct-13 16:19:26

Did somebody forget Mary Seacole, Maya Angelou, Toni Morrison, Courtney Pine?

As you say, it's all so bloody predictable

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:19:38

Rebecca

I would, but there's nothing at all concrete. Just some wide-eyed dweeb who seems to be totally unaware of facts and stuff

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 16:19:41

needing when I was on the Western Front Tour some bloke decided to ask us where we all lived. My mum had moved to Devon and he said 'oh well you won't have many darkies there then will you?' shock

On a tour of the bloody trenches!

I made sure he understood my stance on the subject and the next day we happened to be visiting the Sikh Memorial at Hollebeke.

I stalked him round it. The stupid twat.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 16:20:13

Oooooh. I've just got it - Will Smith...Willow Smith.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 16:21:59

Reports about my thread shock

I told you it was a conspiracy!

They won't silence me <waves placard>

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 16:24:09

I haven't seen any troll hunting. I just think some posters have a pretty clear agenda. They maybe genuine posters with an agenda though. Doesn't mean I think they're trolls.

If I think someone is a troll, I report... sometimes in rhyme. grin

ButteryJam Mon 07-Oct-13 16:25:11

YANBU. I'm fed up of them too and just ignore them now confused

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 16:25:50

Seriously, Mumsnet, the threads we've had the last few days and you're popping up on this one? Pah!

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:26:52

Yes, it is a bit annoying. I'm going to go back and report a disingenous post. See what happens

JamieandtheMagicTorch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:30:09

dONE

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 16:32:34

That other thread has moved to 'In the News'.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 16:33:03

I am going to SO get in trouble for stirring.

MNHQ will send me one of those kind but stern emails.

<scared>

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:33:21

I know who they are but what have they actually done.
Dd has just done a project on Waris Dirie,a truly inspirational woman.

TheBigJessie Mon 07-Oct-13 16:36:07

Freakin They're sort-of child stars. But hey're nowhere as successful as Tatum O'Neal!

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 16:37:50

Or Shirley Temple.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:38:24

Or Cuba Gooding Jnr.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 16:39:26

Or Morgan Freeman.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 16:39:44

The Smiths are nice kids, don't get me wrong but really?

Anyway I don't want to diss the contribution made by the children. I just think maybe the teachers might have steered them in a slightly different direction.

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:39:46

Sorry I was replying to myself blush

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:41:58

Yes MrsDV people who have achieved something,who are inspirational. Its not that hard,there are loads.

Can I just say something about black history month (which baffles me anyway, surely history is history, just sodding well teach it all year round)

My dd is 15 now. So she has done this black history for, what, 11 years now?
All she has been taught is slavery. And Rosa parks.
It appears that is the extent of black history. Literally, that is it.
How is this even possible? How can black history not extend beyond slavery and rosa parks?

My ds1 tried to do his black history project on Malcolm X last year. He was told, no. He couldn't. Because they were not "doing" Malcolm x. So he said, that's ok, my mum and dad have taught me already. We can do some research at home.
No, Malcolm x was not appropriate.

I always get into a rage about this time of year. I don't understand it. I don't understand why black history isn't just history. And, why, if you really have to do "black history" can you not actually teach it? There's more to it than slavery. And rosa parks.

Sorry, I know this is not the topic of conversation. But it drives me mad.
As you were grin

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 16:43:53

Oprah... amazing businesswoman (dreadful shows though)

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 16:46:51

Tbh Tantrums, I agree. It is just history.

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 16:47:50

Me and OH had this conversation on the way home. I am quite old and the only thing we did at school about black people was slavery.

It was like that was all you needed to know. Now they have chucked a bit of music and some running into it but come ON, where are the engineers, the medics, the scientists etc. Yes its fine to have artists but lets have a look at something beyond RnB.

I do love Bob Marley though so lets keep him in. We got to sign Three Little Birds and that was lovely.

You can keep bob marley if ds2 can have Malcolm x. grin

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:50:09

I agree in a way,like black history is american black history.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 16:50:49

Wasn't Bob Marley mixed race? Can't we all have him (I used to play 3 little birds to DS when he was a baby).

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 16:52:54

But Black history would surely cover a huge chunk of Africa as well. And would you include Aborigine and Maori people?

So why not just simplify it all and call it 'History'?

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 16:53:17

Sorry that sounded weird,like the black history they teach is american black history. How about learning about the colonies,apartheid etc etc.

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 16:54:35

Yes. Marley's father was white Scottish.

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 16:56:06

One of us! One of us! Yay! So he's Bobby McMarley then?

SecretWitch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:57:34

I would also venture that black history predates the American Civil War. Surely, through millinia there have been black contributors to medicine, art, engineering, music and battle?

Please do not think for one minute I am minimalising contributions made by persons already mentioned. I just feel it is time African history is looked at in a whole way.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 16:58:50

World history!

SecretWitch Mon 07-Oct-13 16:59:19

Ahhh, YoutheCat, an important point! Carribean history would need to be included as well..

FreakinRexManningDay Mon 07-Oct-13 17:01:10

But that's the thing,black people are not just from Africa.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 17:02:40

Precisely.

Dawndonnaagain Mon 07-Oct-13 17:03:26

As I said, Mary Seacole, a nurse who set up behind the lines in the Crimean, providing care and clean clothes and bedding. Oh, hang on, Florence Nightingale was there, too, and she was white. hmm
Mary Prince, an author who wrote in the early 1800s about slavery.
Yvonne Brewster, an inspirational teacher.
Benjamin Zephaniah. Poet and writer.
Bill Morris. Trade Unionist.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 17:05:10

So it is just history.

And not surprisingly, some of the contributors of importance weren't white! It's a revelation! grin

EldritchCleavage Mon 07-Oct-13 17:34:42

To me, Black History Month makes sense primarily to consider the history of black people in the UK.
Slavery is a large and necessarily important part of that history, but by no means all of it.

But really, I see no bloody reason to conform to the cultural imperialism that interprets all consideration of the black diaspora as being about African-Americans and does not even consider any other racial groups at all.

How about at least teaching children how many people from all over the British Commonwealth fought for the UK in the 2 world wars, a shamefully neglected part of our relatively recent history?

What is Black History Month for otherwise? If it is to redress the way BME people are often viewed, all the more reason to do something a bit deeper than applaud a list of currently popular American slebs.

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 07-Oct-13 17:48:21

As always Yanbu.

I don't doubt some are started out of genuine curiosity but of late I have seen thread titles and thought "really? Ffs!" quite often.

2tiredtocare Mon 07-Oct-13 18:01:25

In the 90's I was taught about Apartheid and the false arrests and subsequent murder of black people in S Africa. We were shown the records kept by the prison guards and it was shocking, the amount of prisoners who 'fell down the stairs' and died was staggering

Portofino Mon 07-Oct-13 19:05:10

They don't have Black History Month in Belgium. Given the goings on in the Congo, I suspect I know why.....

Latara Mon 07-Oct-13 19:06:39

YANBU. I find the 'Halal Meat' thread most suspicious - the OP allegedly had a Halal Bacon and Brie Pannini... yes Halal bacon! Hmmm....

nicename Mon 07-Oct-13 19:10:21

You never know what passes for meat these days. It was probably horse. Or donkey. Or rat.

FruityPops Mon 07-Oct-13 19:13:03

Latara - people have been eating turkey "ham" for years.

Latara Mon 07-Oct-13 19:22:21

Still hmmm... I've never known a Halal place to advertise bacon or ham or any pork products real or fake; so I assumed the OP was not for real.

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 19:32:30

That was another thread started by a newish poster.

Latara Mon 07-Oct-13 19:34:11

I thought so.

Latara Mon 07-Oct-13 19:35:19

As for the 'EDL' thread that was another one!

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 19:35:26

Funny coincidence isn't it? hmm

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 19:36:29

Yep. And some of the vocal dodgy posters on that thread seem to have buggered off - or have they just name-changed?

Latara Mon 07-Oct-13 19:36:38

Yes very.

Latara Mon 07-Oct-13 19:39:36

I was quite shocked at some of the views on that thread and i'm not easily shocked. But it's made me think about joining the local 'stop the edl' group.

WhizzforAtomms Mon 07-Oct-13 20:14:54

Thank you for starting this thread, I'm glad others have noticed too.

I've previously reported a post for being racist but it wasn't deleted - the argument being that the poster was challenged on thread. That has put me off reporting again.

The effect of having multiple muslim-bashing threads is really insidious, and it shouldn't be down to individual mumsnetters battling it out on thread or having to report, report, report.

I wish mumsnet would take a stronger line on racist threads and delete them straight off. Also ban posters after clearly racist posts (not just delete the particular posts). That would go some way to addressing the problem.

After the Woolwich murder, I stayed away from mumsnet (for a month? maybe more...) because I knew how upset I'd be to find loads of Islamophobic / racist threads on here. Maybe unfair - I don't know if that is what happened, but I was going on previous experience.

For what it is worth, I think there are EDL people who create profiles on mumsnet specifically to start shit-stirring OPs in the knowledge that people will take the bait and they won't be deleted.

I've been on mumsnet years by the way (and am not a muslim).

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 20:23:01

I recognise the posting style of one of the thread's OPs. I'm pretty sure it's a namechange situation. But that's not against any rules.

It just feels a bit wrong to me to hide your views behind a namechange.

Hubb Mon 07-Oct-13 20:54:56

Wow that fruitypops is still going on the child bride thread still repeating stuff over and over. I went to report them but didn't know what to say....

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 20:56:23

Goady racist with an agenda?

gordyslovesheep Mon 07-Oct-13 21:06:27

is HQ run by pesky forrin nylons hmm

gordyslovesheep Mon 07-Oct-13 21:07:06

just report with one word ;)

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 21:09:38

I definitely recognise that posting style. I argued with her enough the other week on a similar thread.

Hubb Mon 07-Oct-13 21:12:43

Youthecat - how does it not drive you crazy to keep going with them? Or is it for the entertainment value grin

I'm going to report fruity, got nothing to lose I guess!

YouTheCat Mon 07-Oct-13 21:14:44

It is exasperating. On a different thread though, one of the posters actually had an epiphany and realised why what they were saying wasn't on. I can't remember which one it was.

I think it's worth posting and challenging as much as possible.

Hubb Mon 07-Oct-13 21:24:00

That is great if they end up having a realisation. You've got more energy than me though, I always avoid threads I like that as I know I will get upset!

HoneyDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 21:52:47

I missed the pro EDL threads. So I have started my own pro EDL thread in AIBU.

FreudiansSlipper Mon 07-Oct-13 21:54:05

yes i have noticed it too

pointed it out on another thread

no one noticed most too involved in the oh so complicated issue of people having a different set of beliefs or different skin colour

MrsDeVere Mon 07-Oct-13 22:27:23

One of the threads has just reached new heights of cringiness.

Hubb Mon 07-Oct-13 22:30:03

Ooh which one?

curlew Mon 07-Oct-13 22:32:54

Black people are the same colour as chocolate.......oh, how we laughed....

curlew Mon 07-Oct-13 22:33:19

I am sure we've been there before.....

FreudiansSlipper Mon 07-Oct-13 22:36:25

one recalls the she has a chocolate face thread apparently the woman was offended hmm

silly woman it was only a child being observant hmm

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 04:44:18

The effect of having multiple muslim-bashing threads is really insidious, and it shouldn't be down to individual mumsnetters battling it out on thread or having to report, report, report.

I wish mumsnet would take a stronger line on racist threads and delete them straight off. Also ban posters after clearly racist posts (not just delete the particular posts). That would go some way to addressing the problem.

I do agree with your second paragraph, but I think your first paragraph illustrates how two very separate issues, those of racism and a dislike of Islam can become awkwardly muddled. They are not the same thing necessarily, are they?

There is a very tricky crossover that is not always clearly defined, between a potentially racist thread and a muslim bashing thread. I'd be the first person to say you should not incite religious hatred, but you should feel free to debate aspects of any religion and shout loudly if you feel there is that religion encourages, promotes or demands anything that we feel has a negative impact on our society and human rights, particularly women's rights.

The difficulty is that if muslims feel 'got at' they can close down debate by shouting 'racism!' in a way that a white Christian cannot. Plenty of (largely white) Christians get bashed on here all the time and they don't have that particular 'racism' weapon in their armoury so they have to slug it out the old fashioned way - by justifying their beliefs.

Whereas often I've seen the response here from Muslims of 'you cannot question my values, it's racist/religious hate speech and I'm going to you deleted.' It's actually nothing to do with race though, is it? Of course there is often a strong underlying element of distrust of people of different ethnicities and cultures, but actually the main issue for many people is merely Islam, not whether the followers are black white or brown.

If someone had an issue with Christianity no-one would give it second thought whether they were specifically having a dig at black Christians or white ones. I am not trying to deny that some people use Islam as a stick to beat black people with, just because they are black. I know it happens. But there isn't always a racist slant to an anti-Islam thread, and robust debate should not be censored, provided that it doesn't cross a line into inciting hatred.

fuzzywuzzy Tue 08-Oct-13 05:12:42

'Whereas often I've seen the response here from Muslims of 'you cannot question my values, it's racist/religious hate speech and I'm going to you deleted.'

I've never come across that attitude, could you please link to where one so the Muslim posters has said that?

Mumsnet's response has never been to automatically delete a thread because it's Islam bashing.

We usually have a long running headscarf/veil thread going at least every month. They usually go down a particular route, I wouldnt be allowed to wear a bikini in Saudi Arabia/it's opressive to women in Afghanistan etc.

Generally on MN, there's a very low tolerance for organised religion as a whole, which is logical given that I guess that the majority of MNers are not a part of any religion so the rest of us get put in the woo box.

The recent threads however go beyond that and are deliberatly goady, with the OP blanking posts correcting her/him/it, and insisting that Muslim and Islam is to blame for all the woes of the world or the fact they unwittingly ate a halal turkey ham sandwich (FYI, if a eatery has the words halal displayed on the outside, don't go in expecting a real bacon sandwich).
As far as I can see at least two threads are thinly veiled attacks on Islam and Muslims, with no desire for intelligent debate or acquiring knowledge about Islam on the part of the OP, Mumsnet has not deleted the threads and I've not come across a single Muslim poster so far who's threatened to shut down the threads either, I doubt any could.

I have however found the attitude that them mozlems threaten us with xyz and dont let us criticise them , pretty prevalent with no basis at all.

MistressDeeCee Tue 08-Oct-13 05:30:29

I wonder...hmm

crescentmoon Tue 08-Oct-13 05:38:16

often islam bashing is also done by those who want to rally a cry for the 'white British majority' - remember the ancient enemy! It's a racial dimension and a religious dimension. Sikhs or the nepalese gurkhas are often lauded for being loyal to Britain because they were loyal to the British empire in the days of colonialism. Whereas, Muslim colonies often fought against colonial rule, not just British but also against French rule, Russian rule, prominent slave revolts in the americas against the portugese and the spanish were led by african muslims. So what modern Europeans have taken from that is that Muslims are historically troublemakers, they don't assimilate is much older than the issues about hijab or marriage. 'Muslims as violent' was a lament of the 18th / 19th century colonialists as well - why couldn't they follow peaceful 'turn the cheek' Jesus?

crescentmoon Tue 08-Oct-13 05:53:46

Iv never seen a single Muslim come onto Christian bashing threads to piss take or make fun of with the others. Yet the decline in the respect for the official religion and church is not to do with Muslims but we r blamed for that so the hostility is aimed at us.n

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 06:33:42

Haha fuzzy I knew someone would immediately say that. Well as I said they are sometimes deleted. I'm sure there are plenty still there if you care to look for them, but I don't have the time thanks. I have seen it though - several times. Scouts honour. If you don't believe me I'm really fine with that.

Although an example that springs to mind would be in the recent threads about routine male circumcision performed as a religious ritual at birth. IIRC there were accusations of of racism and religious persecution from both Muslims and Jews on that thread, and the Nazis and the holocaust were brought into it.

Sometimes it is often non-Muslims getting twitchy, and maybe they report on behalf of Muslims who might be offended or feel attacked - who knows?

Maybe there is a patronising tranche of people on MN who do not think that Muslims are up to the job of robustly defending their own beliefs? Of course they shouldn't have to, no-one should - unless they are practising/living in a away that steps outside of the laws of the the UK.

But then if you do not feel the need to defend or justify your religion (and I wouldn't blame you) the answer would be not to get involved in the thread/debate. Not to say 'I don't need to justify myself to you therefore if you continue to insult me by criticising or questioning aspects of my belief system and religious culture then I shall arrive a the conclusion that you are merely a racist with an agenda, and the debate should be closed down on those grounds.'

Of course often you'd be bang on - but not always. Certainly not on MN anyway, where there is often less of an Daily Mailesque xenophobic angle and more or a human rights/women's right angle to criticism of Islam or aspects of cultures rooted in Islam.

MNHQ don't automatically delete, no, but there are certain subjects (and this is one of them) where they get a twitchy trigger finger, mostly due to the many reports I am sure, and whether the reports are entirely justified or not I imagine they just take the path of least resistance where certain sensitive matters like race and religion are concerned. This happens a lot on threads about gypsies and Travellers as well.

It can be very difficult to voice one's uneasiness with aspects of a culture or religion, or extremist subsections thereof, without it being assumed by some to be distrust or criticism of the all people in that wider culture or religion, which can often then be perceived as racism, but isn't necessarily. Sensitivity and intelligence is called for and it's a tricky path to tread admittedly.

curlew Tue 08-Oct-13 06:38:14

"Haha fuzzy I knew someone would immediately say that. Well as I said they are sometimes deleted. I'm sure there are plenty still there if you care to look for them, but I don't have the time thanks. I have seen it though - several times. Scouts honour. If you don't believe me I'm really fine with that."

Surely it's up to the person who makes the accusation to provide the evidence? If you don't have time to do that, then surely don't make the accusation?

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 06:40:31

And for the record I want to make it clear that I am completely without religion, I do not favour any one over any other, I hate no religion in particular but I have much, much less respect for the core values of some religions than others.

And most importantly I am very aware that how people choose to interpret the written texts of their religion is what defines them as a fundamentally good and tolerant person, a decent but misguided and backward thinking person or a malevolent, dangerous, divisive person who prefers to exert control through fear.

That much is true for all religions, and I have personal anti-Islamic axe to grind. I hope you can see that.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 06:45:21

well like I said Curlew, I am not on a mission to prove that Muslims are bad, so I really don't care whether you belleve me or not, but I have cited an example right there ^ of an instance where people who argued vehemently against ritual circumcision were outrightly accused of religious and racial hatred.

And I didn't say that MNHQ always delete - I said that people jump up and down and say (and I am paraphrasing here) 'you can't say that, it's a racist/religious attack and therefore deletion-worthy.'

fuzzywuzzy Tue 08-Oct-13 06:59:40

Your example Nelson, showed how a thread insulted both Muslims and Jewish posters, you can't then say if the thread/posts were deleted that it was due to complaints from Muslim posters!

I didn't go on the circumcision thread, that one is always massively offensive, predictably a poster will come on and say Jewish boys are circumcised by a Mohel using his nails, every single circumcision thread has had that little gem trotted out!

I've never seen a thread deleted due to it being exclusively derogatory to Islam and Muslims. I will always go on a thread about Islam and inject facts in to it, although obviously the truth is always roundly ignored on such threads.

NicholasTeakozy Tue 08-Oct-13 07:18:31

I will always go on a thread about Islam and inject facts in to it, although obviously the truth is always roundly ignored on such threads.

Facts about religion? Really?

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 07:18:43

I'm not a Muslim. I'm not even religious. The recent thread about apparent Muslim people in denial about child marriages is utterly racist. There is no room for any religious debate there as far as I can see (from the OP's point) - she has made it about religion when it is not a religious issue and continues to blame Muslims.

It should be deleted. It is not about debate, just hate and spreading lies.

fuzzywuzzy Tue 08-Oct-13 07:28:12

Yes Nicholas facts about the way we practice Islam.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 07:33:00

As I said in my OP these goady, wide eyed threads are the very threads that prevent discussion on genuine ones.

Because they wind people up, make them suspicious and generally piss people off.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 07:40:42

The one started by a Muslim woman who was experiencing verbal abuse for covering her face was a revealing thread. She just wanted to know what to do about it but it descended into people telling it is her own fault and being very nasty. So even threads not started with 'evil' intent tend to go that way as people impose their own agenda. It wasn't about the rightness of her choice of headcovering, it was about a woman with young children being verbally assaulted and should have been treated that way.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 08:31:08

Its all debate though, isn't it?

Ignore/report the numpties.

I have no problems with people asking questions - even if they are daft. I'd rather people came and asked, than learn all their facts from the Daily Mail. This cuts both ways. Half my family is muslim and I've heard a few corkers (and not just from those living in the ME) about christianity and the west. I'm sure I've asked dumb qs too.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 08:37:15

It is not about dumb questions.
It is about hiding behind the dumb question in order to start a racist thread.

People ask dumb questions all the bloody time on MN.

There is a thread on here atm where the OP keeps popping up gleefully with a 'oops what have I started lol' sort of post.

I am not denying these threads can bring out some intelligent debate and show people at their best as well as their worst but they are becoming tedious.

They are like the disability/SN/SEN ones that end up turning parents of children with disabilities away from MN because they just get sick of reading the same old rubbish over and over. Then they are expected to educate and debate and understand that not everyone 'gets it'.

It is unbelievably frustrating. Do we really want BME MNers to feel that way about MN?

To see yet another 'I'm not being racist but....' thread and think 'fuck that, I'm off'

I don't.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 08:50:00

I thing the genuine gets lost in the malicious and that's a sad thing. It goes from education to ignorance.

I'm a therapist and we have a saying: its all bullshit before the 'but'. So my spidey senses tingle when I see 'I'm not being racialist (that word is enough to make me scream) but...'.

Some post/ers you just 'get a feel' for but its not always something you can put your finger on. Maybe the wording, repeated phrases, comments you have heard on another thread from another poster, new posters who just appear for one thread then disappear again. I've reported threads, usually on my 'gut' and sometimes they go 'pufff' and sometimes not.

There isn't really an answer. Its an open forum and the risk is that anyone can post just about anything. You can challenge and call someone on a post but that's what they want - they may not even believe what they are saying, they just want some verbal aggro.

Not everyone is what they seem. As my old punch cartoon on my pinboard at work says 'on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog' (its a cartoon of a dog typing on a pc).

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 08:58:45

Oh goodness, I meant I have NO anti-islamic axe to grind! Sorry - what an unfortunate typo!

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 09:02:17

As I said in my OP these goady, wide eyed threads are the very threads that prevent discussion on genuine ones.

Because they wind people up, make them suspicious and generally piss people off.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 09:03:24

Opps, sorry, mean to say yes, I completely agree. And they are usually very transparent.

but goading in the context of robust debate can be a very difficult thing to pinpoint and prove.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 09:05:51

'I'm not being racialist (that word is enough to make me scream) but...'.

Ho, yes!!! It's like a massive big racist klaxon going off isn't it? grin

SamG76 Tue 08-Oct-13 10:30:22

As one of the particpnats in the last circ thread, I will give a view on the difference between debate, goading and racism. I can't recall any Holocaust/Nazi references. There may have been a reference to a poll showing that the only party with a majority of supporters looking to ban circumcision is UKIP.

Robust Debate

I was astonished to see in that programme on the UK Jewish/ Turkish/Kurdish community that they had a big party to celebrate a circumcision. Yeucch! Is that legal? - surely it should have to take place in hospital, if at all. Is it really necessary - I'd never do do that to my DS's.

Goading

Yes, it should be banned immediately. A [website in the US with 2 subscribers] says it's not part of Judaism and my brother's wife's cousin's nephew is Muslim/Jewish and didn't have it done. It's mutilation. How can any mother do that to their child? I'd be in tears for weeks.

Racist

Yes, I'm not racist, but every time I see a Jewish/Muslim mother I think about the terrible thing they have probably done to their sons. These parents are just evil, and when their sons grow up they will hate them for ever for what they did. Why can't they understand that we don't do this sort of this in the UK? I think it should be banned immediately, and parents should be prosecuted. If I ever hear of a circ in my area, I'll call social services.

crescentmoon Tue 08-Oct-13 10:49:54

^^ yes definitely

musicismylife Tue 08-Oct-13 11:11:48

This: Of course there is often a strong underlying element of distrust of people of different ethnicities and cultures,

Contradicts this: but actually the main issue for many people is merely Islam, not whether the followers are black white or brown

musicismylife Tue 08-Oct-13 11:13:58

To have a strong element of ditrust about people of different ethnicities and cultures is racist, surely? Damefellationnelson hmm

TheBigJessie Tue 08-Oct-13 11:15:56

I don't see the contradiction.

Main issue for many people <gestures vaguely to the right> is Islam's principles.

However, amongst many other people <gestures vaguely to the left> the issue is that many Muslims look a bit furrin.

It's a bit like: spectacle users often need strong lenses to adjust for weak distance vision, but many use glasses to compensate for long-sightedness, in order to read.

EldritchCleavage Tue 08-Oct-13 11:16:56

Do we really want BME MNers to feel that way about MN? To see yet another 'I'm not being racist but....' thread and think 'fuck that, I'm off'

I'm getting there, this week. And I never thought I'd say that.

TheBigJessie Tue 08-Oct-13 11:22:55

Or: the Roman Catholic branch of Christianity is criticised by many people.

For some, there is an underlying issue of bigotry, which has been inculcated over generations.

Others have philosophical, moral, and theological objections to the Vatican's policies over the last thousand years.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 12:09:49

I may have dented my keyboard by banging my head off it. Made the mistake of posting on that other thread again.

Thumbwitch Tue 08-Oct-13 12:16:27

Thick question, sorry - does BME stand for British Middle Eastern or something completely different? And if different, what does it stand for please? Thank you.

EldritchCleavage Tue 08-Oct-13 12:17:24

Black (or) Minority Ethnic

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 12:23:36

This: Of course there is often a strong underlying element of distrust of people of different ethnicities and cultures,

Contradicts this: but actually the main issue for many people is merely Islam, not whether the followers are black white or brown

I disagree. You are confusing often and sometimes with always, and you are confusing/conflating ethnic and cultural distrust with unease at certain elements of a particular religion.

And you have just proved my whole point really, which is that they are not the same thing at all.

crescentmoon Tue 08-Oct-13 12:24:27

"Do we really want BME MNers to feel that way about MN? To see yet another 'I'm not being racist but....' thread and think 'fuck that, I'm off'

i felt like that for awhile, but realised others who are not muslim or even BME are speaking up. and it was worth it just ot interject facts in whatever people wish to do or not do with it afterwards!

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 12:24:44

yes usually music - where did I suggest that it wasn't? I think you are misunderstanding me.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 12:31:35

I'm sorry music I have just re-read my paragraph containing that line you quoted and I can see why you have misunderstood - my fault entirely.

I meant that in some instances criticism is of elements of Islam itself, nothing more nothing, less, but in other cases of course there is often a strong underlying...blah blah.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 12:35:39

* Nicholas facts about the way we practice Islam.*

But that's a bit like saying 'the facts about how we practise Christianity.'

The facts according to whom?

Banning contraception? Banning abortion? Allowing gays to marry in church? Not allowing them? Refusing blood transfusions? Beating and torturing children to exorcise the devil out them? Polygamy? Monogamy? Dancing with snakes and speaking in tongues? Having gay vicars? Not having them? Worshipping the Virgin Mary? Not worshipping her? Which?

Just because someone feels alarmed and appalled at some things some Muslims do, and they publicly say so, it should not be taken as evidence that they are racist, or anti-Muslim, merely that they are anti-the thing.

YANBU at all OP.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 12:44:00

It's when you get a poster saying that all Muslims should be doing something - implying blame - that things get nasty.

I'm not a Muslim, but I'd imagine the ways of practising religion vary as much amongst Muslims as it does amongst Christians or Jews.

Should all Christians be tarred with the Westboro Baptist church views and actions?

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 12:45:20

Yes exactly You.

Thumbwitch Tue 08-Oct-13 12:56:25

Thanks Eldritch! I got that one completely wrong then [fick]

FavoriteThings Tue 08-Oct-13 13:04:16

Tricky one isnt it. I would say report if dodgy.

monday 13.20pm I dont understand why a black or Asian MN cant report? Who are they dismissed by?

EldritchCleavage Tue 08-Oct-13 13:04:20

Thumbwith, darling, compared to certain posters I could mention you are a woman of wit, erudition and Nobel prize-winning levels of intelligence and perspicacity. No criticism from me for not knowing that!

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 13:05:57

I didn't know it either, Thumbwitch.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 13:09:50

Thumb aren't you in Oz? Perhaps you don't have the term BME there - it might be peculiar to the UK. Although I'm pretty sure plenty of people in the UK won't know what it means either. grin

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 13:17:57

I didn't know that either.

I googled BME and saw something about the BME Pain Olympics so didn't want to look [chicken]. Don't google it (I think its people chipping fingers off and things like that).

TheBigJessie Tue 08-Oct-13 13:21:15

I know the term, but I always feel vaguely confused about the ordering of the M and the E, because there is also the term of "ethnic minorities".

I may be viewing it too simplistically, but I see it and think, "but this is English, not French, we put adjectives before nouns, unless we're composing shit poetry".

I expect there's a good reason though.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 13:21:47

Sounds nasty hmm grin

I am extremely ignorant when it comes to actual knowledge about different religions. But I don't think ignorance can be used as some kind of excuse (seen it on many threads) for racism and bigotry.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 13:25:15

I assumed Middle East (DH is from the ME, so an easy assumption). He just says 'harrumph' to such labels.

Wannabestepfordwife Tue 08-Oct-13 13:40:51

Yanbu I think their are posters with an agenda there's one in particular who seems to comment on all Islamic threads and I'm pretty sure I know their previous posting name.

Have been tempted to ask them outright if they are who I think but didn't know if its against the rules

Wannabestepfordwife Tue 08-Oct-13 13:41:14

Meant there are not their!

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 13:43:16

We might be thinking along the same lines, Wannabe.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 13:44:37

Some people are just arses.

Its not Ian Paisley is it? I'm related to her.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 13:45:20

(sorry - family joke 'Ian Paisley in a headscarf' is a relative of mine)

musicismylife Tue 08-Oct-13 13:49:51

No worries DameFellatioNelson smile

musicismylife Tue 08-Oct-13 13:58:09

And for what it is worth. I hate being called an 'BME' or whatever the latest buzz word for non-white/ non-whatever is. I am me. I am a part of this (sometimes) wonderful society. I work. I have kids. I am human. I am not 'other'. That is not to say that I am not aware of my roots, or whatever. But to be reminded every.single. day hmm

When I look in the mirror, I see music. My kids and friends and family see music. Only people who don't know me see 'BME'.

musicismylife Tue 08-Oct-13 13:59:43

Disclaimer: not literally 'see music' grin

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 14:02:40

Disclaimer: isn't 'nice' at all!

annoyednow Tue 08-Oct-13 14:06:47

Someone said that people should not have to defend their beliefs if they don't step outside the law. As far as I am aware nobody is forced to defend any belief in the UK. It is entirely a matter for our own minds what we believe in and we don't have to justify it to anyone if we do not interfere with anybody else or anyone else's freedom.

Now ideologies/religion/philosophies are an entirely different matter. All ideologies. They are fair game for anybody to speak their minds about. They are ideas, not people. Is there a blasphemy law? As people can put in the public domain that this is a good/only true ideology/ philosophy according to them, so others can say it is total bunkum. In fact I believe it is very important to have this freedom.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 14:15:45

No one is forced to defend anything but when I see nasty little subtle racist comments pervading general thought, I feel like I should say something.

Music, I agree. I see people. Sometimes I see nice people. Sometimes I see vile people. But all are just people.

annoyednow Tue 08-Oct-13 14:25:43

Yes, I understand what you're p**d off about. The two issues should be differentiated though.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 14:37:55

But they aren't and that's where the problem lies.

I am very much a live and let live person. Other people's religions and beliefs don't really impact on my life. They are entitled to believe what they want and do what they want... but only up to a point. Once someone else's ideals start impacting on others in a negative way (such as the woman who was verbally abused in the street for wearing a scarf, who was hounded off her own thread) then the entitlement to express those beliefs is void, imo.

The right to express an opinion does not entitle anyone to go around belittling others.

Thumbwitch Tue 08-Oct-13 14:58:19

Aww fanks Eldritch! blush

And glad that I was able to clarify for everyone else who didn't know what it meant either! grin
<<polishes class monitor badge>>

Fell, yes, am in Australia, never seen or heard of the term at all. They have their own ways of categorising people here, some of which don't really match what I "knew" - for e.g., Asian here means Sino-Asian, not Indo-Asian. Indo-Asians are called Middle Eastern (no idea why!).
Plus the ever-delightful refusal to accept that the shortened form of Pakistani is not particularly polite. They use that all the time on Sports reports. Makes me cringe every time.

annoyednow Tue 08-Oct-13 15:12:21

Verbal abuse is not the same as expressing an opinion. You cannot lump everybody who disagrees with any/all religions/ideologies dictates as guilty by association with someone who verbally abuses someone. People are entitled to hold opinions.

Verbally abusing someone is regarded as assault isn't it? Xenophobes, racists and thugs are xenophobes, racists and thugs.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 15:16:02

People are entitled to hold opinions, yes. They aren't entitled to express them necessarily.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 15:19:05

I used it as an Internet acronym in the same we use lots of annoying DH, DD, Ils etc.

Not to make some sort of special point.

I don't look at people and think 'oh she's a nice looking BME'

It isn't an uncommon abbreviation.

I was at work and on my phone.

annoyednow Tue 08-Oct-13 15:30:27

I agree that we need to be responsible (in the interests of the individual and common good) how and where we express and moderate our opinions and beliefs. This, I believe, applies to everybody.

Out of interest, do you think people who expound religious beliefs and practices should likewise restrain themselves in the expression of their opinions?

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 15:39:44

That would depend on the context.

SamG76 Tue 08-Oct-13 15:46:58

annoyednow - from what I've seen, there are very few people on MN expounding extreme religious views. Personally, I've never called for mass conversion to Judaism, not have I suggested banning pork products from the UK or that, eg, Catholic schools should be abolished because RC's are heretics. Many people have taken issue with posters who go beyond robust debating (see my previous post), but general abuse (eg "Muslims and Jewish parents are evil") is generally the preserve of the militant atheist brigade.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 15:48:45

As an atheist, I don't really want to be lumped in with militants. Can we not just call them bigots and have done with it?

annoyednow Tue 08-Oct-13 15:50:35

Well, should all rights be balanced. Those who profess and those who disagree. In a way, if someone asserts a belief, should someone who disagrees not have an equal right to say they think that idea is bunkum.

SamG76 Tue 08-Oct-13 15:57:00

annoyednow - Of course. if someone says that Judaism (or Hinduism or Freudiansim) is a load of codswallop, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. If they follow it up by saying that Jews or Hindus are evil people who hate their children and are so stupid that they only do what they are brainwashed into doing, that is a matter of concern for me.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 15:58:59

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me. Life would be pretty boring if everyone held exactly the same views.

But if someone disagrees and by expressing their views they seek to belittle, bully, demonise etc, one portion of the community, then I believe that is wrong. If they use lies to illustrate their point and try to incite hatred of one group because of their race or religion, I'd say that's pretty poor show.

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 16:02:49

Ha! Yes Thumb I have made a few Aussie friend since moving to the ME and their brazen use of the P word always makes me gulp. It took me a while to work out that it is no more intended as an insult than Pom, or Kiwi or Aussie, but it still makes me wince very time. grin

filee777 Tue 08-Oct-13 16:05:42

YANBU to disagree with needlessly 'goady' threads that seem to entice racial arguments.

YABU to believe that the 'demographic of Mumsnet' is well traveled and well educated!

fromparistoberlin Tue 08-Oct-13 16:06:17

I have been disappointed in the past at some of the veiled racism I have seen on MN, not surpised though.

then again, MrsDV, I sometimes think you have a twitching radar for this as even one glimpse of racism and you just pop up! But I get it, your DS are mixed race, and we are like lionesses for our kids

but ...sometimes we need to ascertain whether the battle is worth out energy

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 16:09:16

It's always worth our energy to challenge racism.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 16:14:12

I agree with YoutheCat the battle is always worth our energy.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 16:16:07

tbh I had some genuine questions I wanted to ask but didn't in fear of people reacting like this thread...

I wanted to know why.....

1) when I was sat in a popular coffee shop chain, there was a sticker in one of the toilet cubicles that was advertising a rape crisis line to Black, Asian and ethnic minority's. Run by the local council. So to me that means its open to anyone but white women.

I could understand if it was solely Black or Asian or even Ethnic minority but all three together is such a huge umbrella. So if a white woman rang up and said they had been raped, they wouldn't deal with it? If it was a language barrier thing then range of people its available is huge so they couldn't get an interpreter for everyone. And that goes for cultural beliefs too. I cant understand in this day and age for and especially for this, it so inclusive to every one but white ladies.

2) do Muslim ladies who wear the burka get stopped at the airport security? Just that really. ( due to a convo with my friend about about her terrible passport picture)

two genuine questions no hidden agenda, but didn't want to ask before in case a thread like this was started.

fromparistoberlin Tue 08-Oct-13 16:22:27

I dont think challenging racism on an AIBU thread is worth it to be honest, I cant be arsed to go into the reasons why .

I dont think its wrong per se, just a waste of valuable energy

I 100% think we should call on it in wider society though, and I try to (if I am feeling brave enough).

its feels like people think they are being really worthy and having a "real debate" where its actually an internet spat, IYSWIM

humphrys, this reminds me of when my mate (caucasian) got battered by her sociopath BF, she eventually shared with her GP and her referred to the "black sisters of southall group". awful

annoyednow Tue 08-Oct-13 16:26:23

Have to do school. But religions are given a validity, (sacred?) status and protection by the state,which opposing philosophies are not given. Crackpot ideas are just that. Some are held in the name of religious beliefs and are not fair game for open discussion in the same way as those of a non-religious nature. The person who disagrees is labelled.

If some religions tenets or practices (maybe all for all I know) belittle, demonize or bully, if examined objectively without a belief they are sacred and not open to debate, should they not be held fairly to account without always tainting the person who disagrees as really just a racist?

SamG76 Tue 08-Oct-13 16:29:02

Hs - I'll take the bait. Clearly if a white woman called they would deal with it or pass it on pretty quickly to the police. The phoneline is probably manned (!) by volunteers who understand some of the special issues involved (eg illegal immigration, forced marriages) which is why I can't get excited about it.

Shock horror - in my local area, South Asians can have free health checks from 30, whereas others have to wait until 45.? Yes. Does it grate a bit with me? Yes. Am I that bothered? No.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 16:34:35

I assume the SBS was initially set up in response to abuse within certain groups in society (forced marriages, honour crimes, etc). I cant see them turning away any woman in need, regardless of ethnicity.

Why would South Asians have earlier health checks? Is that a diabetes thing?

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 16:36:40

They are held to account. But if you're trying to make sweeping generalisations about one religion/race (which is usually the case) and those generalisations are (usually) misinformed then I'd call a racist a racist and a bigot a bigot. If the misinformation is corrected by someone who knows what they are talking about (so not me then) and the OP persists in their misinformation, then I'd call that person's views bigoted.

That's sort of how I see it.

SamG76 Tue 08-Oct-13 16:36:43

nicename - I think the rate of coronary heart disease is much higher among South Asians. Diabetes may be a factor as well.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 16:38:55

sam it certainly was a goad or a gripe!

It was two genuine questions i wanted to ask/talk about - but didn't because of reactions like yours.
Also it wasn't about Asians or blacks or any other minority, its was about the wide range of people included. You totally missed the point.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 16:39:39

Goodness, if it was all to do with heritage I (as a Scot) would be health checked at 20!

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 16:41:31

sam I can see why about the free health check. It makes sense.

humphryscorner
A woman in a burka still has to show her face at an airport. She will usually be offered the opportunity to do so somewhere quiet to a female officer.

amicissimma Tue 08-Oct-13 16:56:16

Not everybody thinks the same way as anybody else.

You clearly feel that your way of thinking is superior, but do you really believe that the way to bring others to your POV is to call them (off this thread alone):

f*****s
incapable of rational thought
thick/unbelievably thick
morons
thick, stupid, vile and nasty
ar******s
w*****s
idiots
dick
dodgy?

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 17:00:14

Hahahaha hmm

Can't see where anyone has said they are superior. A number of us have expressed our ignorance on a few matters.

I think some people's views are vile and nasty. I'm allowed to think that and to type it as it isn't a personal attack.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 17:03:16

Is that weird post directed at me amicissimma? confused

As well as being nasty its not factually correct.

Paris Twitchy? How patronising.

Wrong is wrong.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 17:06:25

I have just been offered a free health check.
Everyone over 40 is being offered them. It didn't specifiy what race I had to be.

Its not racist btw to target hard to reach communities. Offering certain checks to certain people does not necessary exclude others. Anyone can get their BP checked. We have GPs and the NHS.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 17:13:58

I didn't get a free eyecheck. £39 it cost me!

I daren't get my blood pressure checked these days.

It makes sense to offer relevant health checks via ethnicity profiling (although DH says 'harrumph' as he does to most things).

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 17:13:59

chaz Thanks , I thought as much but my friend was adamant they didn't. I couldn't find info anywhere...honestly I google everything.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 17:16:22

I was in Tesco the other day and they were announcing free eye checks for everyone.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 17:20:03

Tesco for me tomorrow then, my eyes sight is getting shocking shock

LittlePeaPod Tue 08-Oct-13 17:20:23

*MrsDeVere - jumping into an ongoing debate here so sorry to say I haven't read all the posts but i wanted to say you are definitely not been unreasonable. Those threads/posters used to annoy me but now they mildly irritate me.

amicissimma I think the individuals that support racists/raciet groups or post goady threads are:
f*****s
incapable of rational thought
thick/unbelievably thick
morons
thick, stupid, vile and nasty
ar******s
w*****s
idiots
dick
dodgy?

grin, wink and I will also take a biscuit!

pixiepotter Tue 08-Oct-13 17:28:40

well I haven't seen most of teh threads you are talking about.But I did see the halal one.I don't think it is disingenuous at all. It is raising a reasonable point (ie should slaughter of conscious animals be allowed on minority religious grounds, in a country where it is otherwise illegal) rather than trying to be racist.
Animal rights supporters are every bit as motivated for it to be banned as those of certain religions are for it to allowed.Other people are entitled to hold their beliefs without it being a direct attack on you.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 17:36:33

I am hardly likely to take it as a direct attack on me.
What with me being an Anglican vegetarian.

pixie
If you saw the halal one otherwise then you know that there is no requirement in islam for the animal to be conscious and that according to the RSPCA 88% of halal slaughter in the UK already involves pre-stunning.

It was amazing how many times that information got posted only for another poster to pop up and say "but its cruel because stunning isn't allowed etc." Its when people consistently ignore facts because they don't accord with their version of reality that you start to question their real motives. This isn't directed at you but rather a comment on why I didn't think that thread was intended as a legitimate debate.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 17:46:31

Exactly, Chaz.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 18:14:59

Tbh I think this thread is actually one big goad.
It's like picking at old scabs as obviously old threads will and are being brought up.

Boring lunch hour mrs ?

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 18:26:33

I don't have a lunch hour sad

The Aslans stole it.

nicename Tue 08-Oct-13 18:30:13

The bloody nylons got mine.

pixiepotter Tue 08-Oct-13 18:31:09

If you saw the halal one otherwise then you know that there is no requirement in islam for the animal to be conscious
I did see that somebody had posted that, but I don't believe it to be true.

Then why is 88% of halal meat slaughtered in the UK pre-stunned if its not permitted?

You are utterly illogical. Why are you utterly illogical about this?

gordyslovesheep Tue 08-Oct-13 18:40:16

because the Daily Wail said it wasn't true Chaz why let facts get in the way of a bit of Islamaphobia

The rape crisis line - it will be staffed by BME women - who will have a greater understanding or the different issues BME women may be facing - and may also speak a language they find easier to communicate in.

When I worked for Rape Crisis we didn't work with men - for the same reasons

I'd love to find ANY service funded soley by a local authority btw

DameFellatioNelson Tue 08-Oct-13 18:52:38

It's a real shame that BME face any 'different issues' when reporting rape to other non BME women though, isn't it?

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 18:53:03

Aslan is here !? << looks about excitedly>>

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 19:00:43

gordy ok I see your point. The sticker was on our borough logo and also see one a leaflet about it in sure start today.

Gordy
Of course....

I did rather fall into the trap there. Aslan misled me.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 19:10:51

How is this a goad? It's a fair point - there have been a load of recent threads started about Muslim people in order to seemingly have a go.

Pixie, you just go on believing whatever. No amount of truth will change your mind.

LittlePeaPod Tue 08-Oct-13 19:15:25

Talking about recent goady threads started. I know some of you commented on the recent EDL thread. Thought you may be interested to hear Tommy Robinson has just left the EDL because he thinks its full if racists. Well that says a lot about that group...

news.sky.com/story/1151663/edl-tommy-robinson-quits-far-right-group

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 19:18:04

I doubt he has really left because they are racists. It's probably more to do with them being a laughing stock - maybe he's read a few of the recent threads and got a bit scared of a bunch of parents? grin

LittlePeaPod Tue 08-Oct-13 19:19:48

YouTheCat. grin couldn't cope with the parents at the school gate wink ha ha ha

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 19:19:49

There is nothing goady about this thread. A few of us noticed, however, that there were a number of other goady threads making an appearance.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 19:23:48

pixie Just because you don't believe something doesn't make it any less true!
RSPCA 2013

But EU research from 2006 indicated that 75% of cattle, 93% of sheep and 100% of chickens slaughtered in the UK for halal meat were stunned prior to their deaths. Figures produced by the Food Standards Agency (FSA) in 2011 give a similar picture: 84%, 81% and 88%, respectively. BBC 2012.

pixiepotter Tue 08-Oct-13 20:20:08

If it's stunned, it's not halal

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 20:26:19

Link please?

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 20:33:05

Before starting this company we researched the area of stunning and were confused by mixed messages. The popular belief that stunning rendered meat as haram did not actually correspond to what scholars have said. We therefore sought guidance from trusted scholars. They, in agreement with many others, concluded that the act of stunning does not make meat haram as long as the animal is alive and the rules of slaughter are adhered to.

This is a quote from an organic halal meat company who are not that keen on stunning but because of legislation and on consultation with scholars have conceded that it is Halal to stun animals before slaughter.

FruityPops Tue 08-Oct-13 20:55:53

MrsDeVere - some muslims think it's ok to stun the animals and some don't. One meat company doesn't speak for all of them.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 20:59:39

The meat company isn't speaking for them.

It is explaining that although it didn't think stunning was halal, on consultation with imams and scholars it now concedes that it is.

In other words it did not come to this conclusion based on it own beliefs but on the advice of religious experts.

If the experts on this particular Muslim law do not speak for Muslims, who does? confused

gordyslovesheep Tue 08-Oct-13 21:00:55

no but the meat company is producing the meat ...

Coconutty Tue 08-Oct-13 21:01:10

MrsD, if we had a 'like' button then I would like your OP.

Loads of goady fuckers trying to get attention. I've decided to ignore them until they start playing nicely.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 21:01:59

But
if Mohammed himself appeared in a vision in front of you and said 'its fine to stun cows before you kill them, go ahead, I promise not to smite you'

some posters would say 'yeah but he doesn't speak for all Muslims though does he'

FruityPops Tue 08-Oct-13 21:06:22

MrsDeVere - why aren't all the animals being stunned then?

Coco - It's not "goady" to have questions.

fuzzywuzzy Tue 08-Oct-13 21:20:05

Fruitypops, how many practicing muslims do you personally know who have told you their opinion on animal slaughter and child marriages, etc??

Do let us know how you've come to know (let alone speak on behalf of) this 'other' muslims, when real life bona fide Muslims on this thread and recognised Islamic groups are saying something else entirely.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 21:20:06

When you attribute lots of Muslims to things that you believe with no basis in fact, then it is goady and racist.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 21:22:19

I don't claim to be an expert on Islamic practices Fruity.

Pixie does.

Ask her/him.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 21:32:06

Fruity Ted The fact is the majority is stunned, and as you can see from the link and the BBC piece I posted, that figure is increasing.
Now, I will agree that one meat company doesn't speak for all of them, but I imagine the EU research (which is where the BBC information came from) and the RSPCA research was pretty thorough.

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 21:32:41

"I dont agree with a particular aspect of Islam.."

ISLAMAPHOBE!!!

Boring .....

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 21:34:20

<< stands in corner and claps>> purpose of thread achieved grin wine

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 21:35:42

Oh wow! So articulate and adds so much to the argument. hmm

Wannabestepfordwife Tue 08-Oct-13 21:39:00

dawndonna grin wish I could like your last post

FruityPops Tue 08-Oct-13 21:39:17

No one can speak for all muslims. I agree. They don't have a pope type person at the top.

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 21:40:00

I vote UKIP :-) hope that "boils your piss"

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 21:40:08

I suppose you are right humphreys

I am not sure I am happy to be proven right that MN has a bunch of goady, racists joining up to cause trouble though.

I think its sad.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 21:41:58

Really Bazoo what has my dd ever done to you to deserve that?

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 21:42:16

No, it just confirms my thoughts, Bazoo.

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 21:44:27

Your dd??
And I said UKIP not BNP, name one of UKIPs policies that are racist.
Controlled immigration I imagine.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 21:45:56

No, we're English, however, my dd needs a wheelchair. She has a form of Cerebral Palsy.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 08-Oct-13 21:48:10

no it does not boil my piss

just feel it is sad that so many have been swayed by a few strong words from a man who is as much as i hate to admit it, is clever at fooling people. a party with one agenda that thankfully their idiot members remind us all what a bunch of stupid cunts they are on a regular basis

but still people are stupid enough to support them

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 21:48:44

yes, UKIP policies are not racist dear.....just the politicians right!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/20/ukip-biggest-gaffes?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 21:49:33

Sorry can you elaborate? Genuine question as my little bro is in a wheelchair. I love him more than life itself.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 08-Oct-13 21:50:30

really you vote for a party that is extreme without knowing what their policies are?

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 21:50:56

No interest in your link defuse dear.

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 21:51:10

Do people really believe that UKIP, BNP, EDL are not racist???
I mean really??

Even Tommy robinson has said that EDL are a bunch of extremists!

Back to UKIP now....

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 21:55:02

UKIP policies - Keep the pound, controlled immigration, british jobs for british workers, referendum re EU
I agree with all these things. I am unaware of a policy re wheelchairs?

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 21:55:13

of course you wouldn't be interested in anything that remotely resembles the truth about UKIP and their members

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 21:55:33

Bazoo Whilst UKIP talk about changing their policies, this hasn't actually happened and why would I trust a party that changes its mind every time it's found out to be as exclusive to people as it could possibly be. My dd intends to go to Cambridge, she'll probably get there too. She's extraordinarily bright and a hard worker. However, UKIPs disability policies will not help her or many others, equally bright to achieve these ends.
Now, you can put up as many links as you like stating they now have disability officers etc. But as long as they want the human rights act ignored, as long as they plan to pull out of Europe, as long as they have bigotted idiots calling for seperate schools and seperate communities for those with disabilities I shall fight. My daughter is better than any misguided soul who votes for that.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 21:56:59

So would you like to see your brother in a 'closed community' for 'the disabled'? Because that's what they want to do. Anyone unable to work through disability would be put into institutions.

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 21:57:27

UKIP's racist outbursts are disgusting, but their views on disability are beyond words.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 21:58:08

And don't forget euthanising the over 80s.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 21:59:55

mrsd its far from it, IABU is a tiny part of MN.
There are a couple of subjects which all ways cause trouble on IABU, you just picked a standard, predicable one.

The whole tone of your OP was goady

Flame away fuckers you knew what you were doing, so it seems a but meh when

f*****s
incapable of rational thought
thick/unbelievably thick
morons
thick, stupid, vile and nasty
ar******s
w*****s
idiots
dick
dodgy?

start replying. Same old same old

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 22:00:19

I will hold my hands up and say I knew nothing about that :-( Ignorance is bliss as they say.
That has really shaken me up. He is my world.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 22:00:52

And how long it takes them to stop making excuses for their representatives who make horrendously disabilist comments.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 08-Oct-13 22:02:28

Shit. Sorry Bazoo Have pmd you.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 22:02:38

Bazoo, it is really shit. People look at their immigration poilcy and some people agree with it, which is up to them, but then don't look any further into other ideals they hold.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 08-Oct-13 22:04:48

Well now Bazoo maybe you can empathise with others a little more who also get a bashing from UKIP

Use you vote for another party a party who does not want to discriminate against anyone

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 22:05:39

humphy its your opinion.
It doesn't make you right.

You insist I started this thread to goad? Who?

I have been reading awful, goady, racist threads all week.

This thread was started because I do not like them.

I don't understand what that list of words is for.
They aren't mine are they?

Is it really that hard for you to understand that people joining this forum for the sole purpose of stirring up racial and religious division pisses me off?

I can't possibly be genuinely upset about and must surely be starting a thread for a lark?

Ok then.

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 22:07:10

Because racism is sooo much fun. hmm

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 22:07:11

Bazoo, I hope you are OK. It is always worth investigating deeper, even down to the small print.

Namechangesforthehardstuff Tue 08-Oct-13 22:07:28

I only came in here in the hope that it was going to be a nice quiet little corner with some like minded people away from the goady fuckers. But I see you've brought them with you <sigh>

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 22:08:23

We're being followed... shhhh

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 22:11:40

I dont really know what to say now.
Because I cant lie and say I now disagree with the policies I listed earlier but the fact I lent my support to a party that sees my gorgeous funny brave brother as something to be ashamed of?
My heart hurts :-(

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 22:21:17

mrsd you were inviting people to come on an argue with you. It seems like its just picking old scabs.

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 22:22:27

Bazoo, you know your brother, you see him for the wonderful human being that he is. No need to waste your emotions over UKIP. Instead, be happy that MN showed you their true colours and be happy that you didnt waste any more time on them!! smile

As someone said up thread, look into a political party that does not discriminate against anyone. We might find the issue of human rights sometimes tricky to deal with, but I am so glad that people work so hard to uphold them - otherwise ultimately the weak and vulnerable would be the biggest losers.

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 22:22:50

Mrs DV if nothing else you're thread has lost UKIP a supporter. Ill be more careful with my vote next time. Thanks for the eye opener people.

Bazoo23 Tue 08-Oct-13 22:24:26

Your not you're**
Dont want to offend more than I already have!:-)

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 22:24:54

I was inviting people to flame me if they felt like it. Because I knew that people would turn up with the same old shite and they did.

You cannot tell me what my intentions were. Well you can, but you can't insist that you are right.

Because I started this thread, not you. I know what I was thinking.

If you think this subject is just about winding people up you don't know me as well as you think you do.

Picking old scabs?
What a horrible and dismissive expression for challenging people's bigotry and ignorance.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 22:28:07

Bazoo I am not sorry that you have decided not to support UKIP. I do not agree with some of your views but I am genuinely sorry that you have been sucked in by those fuckers and upset.

You will not be the only one. They don't like to advertise their deep seated disabilist and misogynistic ideals

It is how they get people involved. I don't believe all of their supporters actually support their manifesto. They don't know about it.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 08-Oct-13 22:28:34

Yay one less vote for UKIP and if you know any other supporters pass on what you have learnt

YouTheCat Tue 08-Oct-13 22:29:46

The thing is, there's a lot of us who agree with MrsDeVere about this. There have been a host of really unpleasant threads recently.

defuse Tue 08-Oct-13 22:32:19

Yes there have been some unpleasant threads recently, but I am so glad that people still challenge what is wrong.

Latara Tue 08-Oct-13 22:34:55

I agree with MrsDeVere's OP and I wish i'd had the guts to post that tbh.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 23:09:59

I agree while heartedly about the threads , I really do. I'm so fuck

Bazoo
UKIP are not stupid, they know the issue of immigration bothers people so they highlight their stance on that issue. The fact is that is that we already have controlled immigration from outside the EU including a high income threshold for bringing in a spouse.
Part of what they are tapping into is a sense that Britain is changing too fast or too much. The fact that many of those changes are due to urbanisation and a change in the economic structure of the UK away from manufacturing to service industries is glossed over in favour of pointing the finger at immigration. For my family who worked in the South Wales coalfields for more than a century the Britain that some UKIP members yearn for never existed.

humphryscorner Tue 08-Oct-13 23:15:22

Posted too soon

Bored with every racist thread turning in to Muslim bashing.
Those threads should be ignored and new threads being positive and educational about all out muticultrel society put up instead .

A thread about threads that really piss some one off only high lights the past issues arguments rather than looking to the future and moving forward.

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 23:42:22

I got sick of ignoring them Humphrey.
One.after.another.
this week alone there must have been 4 and they are the only ones I noticed.

And the way if you don't agree you get called a privileged, mc, living in the suburbs, a bully, pc, etc etc etc.

You can't have a proper discussion because of the above. If that fails you get called 'royalty' or 'sycophantic'.

So why not start my own thread where I get to set the tone?

Why should they get the advantage all the time?

MrsDeVere Tue 08-Oct-13 23:44:52

We have had this debate about parents with children with SN being expected to be educational and understanding and positive in the face of ignorance.

Most of us got fed up after the first couple of years.

Its not our job to make nice with the fuckwits.

And I don't think its the job of anyone to be the bigger person on this issue either.

If they want to they can but they shouldn't have to.

Brokensoul Wed 09-Oct-13 00:26:52

Can we have white history month please?
( runs under the bed)

DameFellatioNelson Wed 09-Oct-13 04:12:48

So would you like to see your brother in a 'closed community' for 'the disabled'? Because that's what they want to do. Anyone unable to work through disability would be put into institutions.

Really? shock What, all of them? confused Even if their families don't want them to be and are happy to support them at home?

How will that work then? Please tell me it cannot possibly be exactly as it seems, and that you are being a bit alarmist/hysterical with that post.

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 07:18:35

I would imagine it would be a case of those that can't support themselves would be the first to 'benefit'.

But why take the risk?

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 07:24:30

It's not only that though. Given their views that women should be at home being good little wives do you think there'd be any help for those fleeing domestic violence? Or single parents? They want to do away with human rights.

The Tories also want to do away with human rights YoutheCat. It's sadly an idea not confined to fringe groups. sad

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Oct-13 10:12:55

Can we have white history month please?

Every month is white history month.

How will that work then? Please tell me it cannot possibly be exactly as it seems, and that you are being a bit alarmist/hysterical with that post

The policy was posted on here a while back on a thread about all party policies [there was a link to an online test to see what policies you agreed with and which party they came from] they proposed closed communities for people with learning disabilities etc.

Some UKIP defenders were on the thread and during the thread the section of the UKIP website that contained that particular policy was taken down and just an error 404 page came up.

It may still be on the web somewhere though?

It really was as awful as it sounds.

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Oct-13 10:20:15

Re-examine community care and support congregate communities for people with learning disabilities

It is under point 6 on the link below.

southcambsukip.org.uk/ukip_mini_manifesto_201004_v01.html

DiamondMask Wed 09-Oct-13 10:58:16

UKIP's views on women and disabled children are very disturbing and they do not distance themselves very quickly from their councillors who make the vilest comments.

EldritchCleavage Wed 09-Oct-13 12:07:18

I'm really grateful to the many indefatigable posters who have done battle with the goady racists on threads this week. I've tried, but I'm just so very tired of it all and I have been ratty rather than reasoned. Sometimes it's easy to shrug off, and sometimes...I can't imagine how Muslim posters feel, it's even worse for them.

I'm reminded of something I read years ago, about racism in America. Many African-Americans felt that the blatant racism of the South was sometimes easier to bear than the mealy-mouthed, ostensibly accepting but actually even more inhumane prejudice they encountered in the North. At least in the South you knew where you bloody well stood.

That is really resonating with me at the moment. Bring back the skinheads who used to shout 'Fucking coon' from across the road. Better than all these apparently non-racist people you might even get on with on other threads who then post horrid othering bilge.

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 12:11:09

Yes, the Tories want to do away with our human rights too. Seems like a good enough reason not to vote for them - regardless of other policies.

Bazoo23 Wed 09-Oct-13 12:19:38

I do think its a bit extreme to call me racist because I dont agree with halal meat?

FavoriteThings Wed 09-Oct-13 12:23:29

Report anything you think breaks guidelines. That applies to everyone.

Bazoo
Objecting to unstunned halal meat is reasonable if you are objecting to the lack of stunning. Refusing to accept evidence from people like the RSPCA that most halal meat slaughtered in the UK is pre-stunned would be unreasonable and would call into question your motives.

Objecting to halal meat in schools because you believe that education should be entirely secular is reasonable. Objecting to halal meat in the school but expecting all children to attend a daily act of Christian worship in non-faith based community school, not so reasonable.

For info - I am a Christian; it is DH who is Muslim.

Cashncarry Wed 09-Oct-13 12:43:56

My fingers have been itching to post on this thread since you started it Mrs DV because it has really struck a chord with me. So many of your comments have had me nodding gratefully at the screen but none more so than this:

"It makes it very difficult to have an actual discussion about issues around race and religion. Its almost impossible for a black or Asian MNer to report a racist comment or attack. They are almost always dismissed as being over sensitive."

I used to be a relatively prolific poster and in fact relied on MN to keep me sane and thought I was helpful to other posters at times so therefore part of a community which helped enormously with my self-esteem. I did rant every now and again about racist threads/matters but generally one of the things which pulled me to MN was the open-minded educated anti-prejudice-of-any-kind liberalism of it all. I had a couple of minor run ins with posters I disagreed with - just disagreements though, I never felt bullied in any way.

Until this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1526820-for-reporting-my-manager

It all looks fairly innocuous but it affected me deeply. Being told I needed therapy and was over-sensitive was upsetting. Just felt that very personal comments weren't necessary just simply for expresssing my views. In the end I ended up being accused of being a homophobe and a fattist. I didn't exactly cover myself in glory with my ranting but still, it did feel very vindictive and I've rarely posted since.

The rational part of me says I am being over-sensitive, I probably did deserve a pasting and I should simply not take the whole thing so seriously as it's just "words on a screen".

The wibbly part of me misses MN and feels tearful and angry at the thought that I lost all that support because I tried to stand up for myself and my opinions.....

Right - I'm going to post this before I chicken out and press delete. I'm sorry for using your thread as a means of catharsis Mrs DV - it has helped to put it down as I've held it in for a while and silently seethed whenever I've wanted to post but hesitated for fear of being shot down in flames by those who have an agenda. Even if I get a pasting for being a numpty, I'm so pleased you started your thread as it's really helped me. Thank you thanks

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Oct-13 13:05:24

Blimey CashandCarry.

I don't think you deserved a pasting on that thread and I'm amazed that people thought what that man said shouldn't have been challenged!

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 13:07:34

Some days it just depends who is on and who the sheep want to follow.

Some people are just vile bullies.

Cash, from your OP I would have totally agreed with you reporting his vile behaviour and words.

Cashncarry Wed 09-Oct-13 13:22:57

Glad to hear it guys! I wasn't even the OP on that thread - she asked a perfectly reasonable question and whilst some disagreed there were a lot of comments of the "PC gorn mad" type. I thought it may be helpful to some of those posters who might think that those accusations don't happen ... although I imagine they'll simply think it was justified and that the OP, myself and other posters who thought she was right were hand-wringing liberals with nowt better to do than to shout "racist" whenever we feel the need.

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Oct-13 13:31:04

I think that thread is a perfect example of the kind of 'shouting down' that happens.

stooshe Wed 09-Oct-13 13:31:12

Amberleaf 10:12:55 -BOOM! That's all I wanted to say.

AmberLeaf Wed 09-Oct-13 13:44:41

wink @ stooshe.

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 14:43:26

Oops I misread in my drenched haze (bloomin' weather).

But still, the OP was totally right.

crescentmoon Wed 09-Oct-13 14:53:18

i really appreciate everyone on this thread whose posted agreeing with the OP, really, it makes me very emotional to know that there are others who can see it. not just thanks and gratitude to OP but also to others, who thankfully, are also the main type i come into contact day to day in normal life

MrsDeVere Wed 09-Oct-13 16:30:42

Well!

I have been utterly depressed by the comments made to me on a few threads in the last two days.
I have been called a bully and nasty etc
Had my motives questioned and generally insulted and dismissed.
When the obvious 'oh how PC!' and 'how silly' type comments don't work the deal seems to be to move on to the 'people are only agreeing with you because....' and 'you only do it to get your kicks out of being nasty' type of stuff.

Its like there are certain posters who just cannot and will not accept that other posters do care about stuff, they are not being pc, ,they are not doing it because they are too stupid or scared to think otherwise or because they like to upset people who don't agree with them.

I am not a troll or a bully. I am not stupid or scared or unaware.

But just as I was about to feck off I read the posts from Cash and crescent and don't feel quite so crap.

I am sure someone will come along and have another pop but not much I can do about that.

flowers

EldritchCleavage Wed 09-Oct-13 16:37:34

At the risk of being accused of being in your clique and sucking up etc etc (whatevs, haterz), MrsDV, I think you speak a lot of sense generally and especially on this, and bless you for starting this thread.

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 16:48:52

Well said!

A racist poster on another thread a while ago, called me dim. That made me eye roll.

I have a question. Is MrsDeVere name from a certain bbc series?

MrsDeVere Wed 09-Oct-13 17:06:23

Weeeeelll sort of.

I chose my name based on a clever mix of my real first name and my favourite film/book. (I was originally TheFirstMrsDevere)

I was very pleased with myself.

A few weeks after I had chosen it I suddenly realised I had picked entirely the wrong first Mrs De - something.

That'll teach me to be clever grin

YouTheCat Wed 09-Oct-13 17:24:02

grin

TheBigJessie Thu 10-Oct-13 12:43:49

MrsDeVere does this mean my image of you as a stylish dark-haired 1950's film-star person, the way I always imagined Rachel, isn't accurate? shock

And I think it's unfair for MNHQ to have deleted your OP. <Cross>

TheBigJessie Thu 10-Oct-13 12:48:26

Rachel? I mean Rebecca!

I think I got mixed up with My Cousin Rachel by the same author.

LittlePeaPod Thu 10-Oct-13 13:05:28

MrsDevere I have been periodically checking this thread and I am sad to read that others have called you a bully/nasty etc. well can I say, I have one across your posts on other threads and in no way have I found any of those comments to be in any way bullying. It's utter BS.. Ignore, ignore ignore....

I have been attacked on threads because my view may not agree with some MNers.

MH Why have you deleted the original post? Why did it break talk guidelines? I don't get it?

MrsDeVere Thu 10-Oct-13 13:35:45

I am guessing it was reported by someone who ran out of anything else to dig at me with.

meh.

MrsDeVere Thu 10-Oct-13 13:37:46

thebig in my head I am terribly witty in that brittle way and devastatingly stylish.

But my mistake in choosing the right name may be more telling than I care to admit

grin

MrsDeVere Thu 10-Oct-13 13:38:29

Thank you Little smile

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 13:40:48

I'm guessing their take on it would be it is a thread about other threads - but it's not. It's a thread about a current trend on MN which I think is perfectly valid to discuss.

Why delete the OP and not the whole thread? hmm

nicename Thu 10-Oct-13 13:49:45

What did you do? Have you broken Mumsnet MrsDV? Own up, who complained?

I expect this thread will go pfffffft any time.

*

Now the problem I have, all youse lot on here (pin back your ears, I'm going to get all school ma'am here) is that the lovely, sensible posters (you know who you are) get their blood boiling and get all shouty at the numpties.

I have name changed a few times, but am often in the mêlée adding my tuppence-worth, so do recognise the 'tone' of some of the regulars. I get quite upset when I see the nice, sensible, normal posters getting upset with the ignorant posts.

I find that I meet very few absolute tossers in real life, while I tend to bump into a lot (or maybe just a few name changing like mad) on here. It's not the real world on here and to some, being irritating is no more than a hobby and if they can collect a few scalps on the way, all the better.

I know its hard to sit on your hands sometimes, but a troll or agitator is just in it for laughs, nothing more. Anyone asking genuine questions is there to be persuaded and will get involved in a discussion.

God knows, I try to see the good in everyone but even I'm not so naïve that I don't realise that there are just some unpleasant characters in the internet. Its not worth my energy or peace of mind to try to fence with these people.

LittlePeaPod Thu 10-Oct-13 14:01:32

MrsDeVere you are welcome... Please don't change! wink

Its a thread about a current trend on MN which I think is perfectly valid to discuss.

Couldn't agree more. There is a trend of ridiculous threads and it should be addressed. I still don't get why MN would allow the obviously goading / ridiculous threads to stay up yet they delete one that discusses the trend.. Munmnet HO please give us a clue?

nicename Thu 10-Oct-13 14:04:33

Doesn't mumsnet have some sort of database to keep an eye on posters who have had threads deleted/complaints made against them and their various names/logins? That would make sure that people couldn't just keep namechanging and popping up.

AmberLeaf Thu 10-Oct-13 14:06:02

shock at the op being deleted! WTH?

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 14:08:05

I wonder what the next name change will be. It'll be easy enough to spot. If I can spot it, then anyone can.

nicename Thu 10-Oct-13 14:11:29

Who, me? I don't have a pattern. I usually change when someone is nasty to me (complete wuss).

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 14:14:12

Sorry, I meant one of the other posters with an agenda.

Who would be nasty to you, Nicename?!

Dawndonnaagain Thu 10-Oct-13 14:15:41

I think she means Fruity Ted no, sorry erm Adventure Ted erm, something.
Waits for deletion.
wink

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 14:16:04

grin

nicename Thu 10-Oct-13 14:17:07

Which one (you can tell me...)?

Oh you'd be surprised... I was once threatened with a 'battering' because I made a joke about a prom dress. It amused me anyway because I'm from Glasgow and as hard as jelly nails..

LittlePeaPod Thu 10-Oct-13 14:32:42

Noooooo grin #DawnDonna

annoyednow Thu 10-Oct-13 15:09:18

* You the Cat * "But if you're trying to make sweeping generalisations about one religion/race (which is usually the case) and those generalisations are (usually) misinformed then I'd call a racist a racist and a bigot a bigot. "

Ok, I'm a little confused re the above. Are you referring to my statements? Not having referred to any particular religion or anybody recent origins on the planet (as we all have same origins from Africa), that would really encapsulate what I'm trying to say. Do I get called a bigot and racist for simply believing all religions (ideas and practices) are equally fair game for opponents to comment on as much as the proponents. Both sides having a duty not to carelessly incite or hurt people. If the "you're" part is not referring to me, disregard this paragraph.

I forget the original post (and I haven't seen threads referred to), but if people are being disingenuous by using genuine issues with religion (any and every religion) as a vehicle to have a dig re the origins of it's adherents, that is weaselly.

Conversely, if people are being disingenuous and try to link and taint perfectly valid and reasonable comments about religion (any and every religion) by automatically calling the opponent bigoted or racist, then that is similarly weaselly. All religions (philosophies and practices) are equally fair game for reasonable comment.

I think it comes down to the individual. People can 'see' or 'not see'. They can similarly care or not care. It's not just education or culture. Some people can be decent in some ways, but not in others. Gosh, I feel old and weary. Where has idealism gone?

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 15:11:37

Annoyed, my 'you're' was a general 'you're' - not pointing at Annoyed and proclaiming anything nasty.

annoyednow Thu 10-Oct-13 15:31:45

Ok, YouTheCat, one less thing to be annoyed about in life.

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 15:59:54

Good grin

TheBigJessie Thu 10-Oct-13 17:36:05

Apropos of, erm, nothing much, my children really like Superted DVDs. My husband and I found that one or two episodes contained rather racist assumptions though.

YouTheCat Thu 10-Oct-13 17:37:21

I never much cared for SuperTed. Now I know why.

EduCated Thu 10-Oct-13 17:48:20

Yes. Just yes to everything on this thread including the bizarrely deleted OP

I did post on the one thread. Left it after it turned into a 'haha all you MC, middle aged white people getting your knickers in a twist'. Cos they've got me there except the middle aged

nicename Thu 10-Oct-13 17:56:58

I don't wear knickers.

(Actually I do but it sounded funnier that 'I really hate flouncy generalisations').

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