My employer wants me to work away for a few days(239 Posts)
Hi, I am going back to work part time after having my DS. Once a year there is an event which involves working away for a few days. It's not mandatory but it's expected. Two of the 3 day event are my working days so I am expected to go. I would be a 2-3 hour drive away and I don't feel comfortable driving on the motorway so I would probably have to use public transport if I went. But basically I don't want to go!! Working 9-5 3 days a week is one thing but to be hours away from home and stay away over night is too much I think! My priorities are different now and I would hate to be that far away from my DS who would only be 11 months old at the time!! Going back to work is bad enough but we need the money. Am I being un reasonable not wanting to go? Or is it unreasonable them expecting me to go now I'm a mum? I would be grateful for your thoughts on this :-)
I'm afraid I think YABU. Once a year is not a lot, and you appear to know exactly when it is, so can plan to be away.
Isn't there someone you can get a lift with?
Once a year, for 2-3 days, planned well in advance so you have plenty of warning?
Be grateful for the break. 3 days of no housework and only yourself to look after, bliss
Oh, and do you really think they shouldn't expect anyone who happens to be a parent to go?!
Perhaps this isn't the job for you.
It doesn't sound unreasonable, though I would have found it very hard too. Are you on your own, or do you have someone reliable who could look after your baby for you - and start spending more time with him now, ahead of the event?
You will find the first year v hard, but make the most of it - long baths, adult company, no housework for 3 days. By next year, you may well be looking forward to it!
If its 2-3 hours away you can come back each evening. Long days but if you don't want to stay?
I'd go for 2 nights of sleep in a hotel without interruptions.
They are not unreasonable in expecting you to go. If you were a dad you wouldn't have thought twice.
If you are still breastfeeding you can use that as a reason not to go but 'I don't want to be away from my baby' probably won't go down well.
Sorry YABU, it's once a year and I'm sure many of the other attendees are parents. My work also has an event once a year fri-sun in a hotel hundreds of miles from home, I had to go when DD was 8mo. It's just one of these things that you suck up if you want to work and be a parent, I don't expect any special allowances.
Think you're stressing too much. It will be fine!
Your DS won't even notice.
YABU, it's part of the job, it's once a year, most of it is on your normal work days and you've got loads of notice to sort out childcare. Of course you should go!
YABU for a ONCE a year event! Your ds may be 11 months this year when you are away but next year he will be nearly 2. A few years after that he will be at school! When you go back to work, your priorities will indeed have changed but you will also be more dependant than ever before on a bit of goodwill from your employer when (and it will be when, not if) your ds is ill on one of your working days, your childcare falls through, you have to leave early/come in late because of medical appointments/nursery evening whatever. It works both ways and showing willing to attend this event should help when you have to call on your employers to be flexible for any of the above reasons - or any of the other things that come along and blindside you as a working parent!
Yabu, but i understand you not wanting to go. I think you'll have to suck it up and see it as a break for yourself (positive spin) though you will miss him.
Personally I'd grab the chance of a bit of "me" time for 3 days. You don't have to be with your baby 24/7, sometimes a break is good for everyone. Will you be leaving the baby with your partner? If so, it's good for them too.
You're wondering if they are BU because you're a mum, but if you were excluded from something for the same reason I bet you wouldn't be happy.
YAB totally U.
Presumably you did this before you had your child, why should your employer make an exception for you?
Most people would be delighted to have a break away - perhaps you are not in the right job.
Yabu. Lots and lots of people have to go away for work. And it's only once a year and its only 2-3 hours away.
Why not book yourself one of those motorway driving lessons to get a bit more confident.
Sorry I think yabu too it was part of your job pre children it would be unreasonable to expect u now to be exempt from it. It's not a new requirement nor short notice so u can plan for it.
I can understand not being keen but expecting to not be asked to do it yabu
You dont sound like a very keen member of the team tbh. I get that you priorities have changed but you employers' havent- they still require someone to do the job you signed up for and if you arent comitted to holding up your side of the deal then i think you should consider taking a job that doesnt require any away time. Be fair to everyone.
sounds lovely, staying in a hotel being waited on hand and foot. And it'll be lovely for your DS to have some Daddy time, DH loves it when I'm away, he loves it being just him and DD.
It's part of your job, once a year. I have no idea how many parents there are at your company but a fair few I would think - are they all asking not to go?
I don't think your employer is being unreasonable in expecting you to go but I also don't think you're being unreasonable in not wanting to go. My DS is only 6 months old and although in theory the idea of 2 nights without being woken sounds like heaven, in reality I wouldn't want to do it either.
Yabu. I will go for you . 3 days away from home on my own, expenses paid! What's not to love?
Go, enjoy it! I know if I could go (run) away at the moment I really really would.
What are you actually concerned about OP? What's wrong with being a couple of hours away from home, and what's wrong with staying overnight? I mean, what is it about those things that's bothering you?
Do you have reason to believe something will happen that will require you to return home quicker than a couple of hours?
Does your DS not settle to sleep for anyone else?
If you can tell us what your concern is I'm sure people can think of ways to address it before you go as it sounds like you have plenty of time.
if you don't want to go just say so - most employers are not big nasty dictators..
if it is EXPECTED that you will go, then you are showing willing if you DO go, but unless it is part of your contract, then it is not compulsory....
I don't go away with my PT work - BUT - I made it clear at my interview from the start that I would not be willing to go away (I care for my MIL at home) my boss has ASKED if I would go, but I have said no, and reminded them I was not willing.. (boss said "just thought I'd ask - no problems")
Special treatment because you are a parent ? That'll go down like a lead balloon
Suck it up or leave the job so that someone willing to give it 100% can have it
If it's part of the job then I think YABU to expect that your employer won't want you to go. Especially if they have already reduced your hours to enable you to work 3 days, although you don't say if you've always been part time or if that was arranged for you after having a baby.
I can completely understand you not wanting to go, but if you want the job then you have to do it properly and your employer is not being at all unreasonable.
Well i dont think YABU, you don't want to stay away from your 11 month old baby over night. I wouldn't either.
If its not mandatory just say no thank you, i'm not ready to be away from my lo for that length of time so far away.
Its not for anyone else to judge, only you know what you are happy with.
YABU. You've got heaps of notice. I'd go for the three days. Swap one of your non working days that week and go. You need to take your job seriously especially as you need the money. Your DS will be fine.
Do you think seriously that all the other attendees are childless....
Unless you're a single parent and don't have anyone else to look after your 11MO, then YABU
I can understand why you're not keen to go, but I'm afraid YABU. It's part of the job.
Is there something specific you're worried about? Are you still bf or the only one your lo will settle for?
is it unreasonable them expecting me to go now I'm a mum?
Being a mum is your business, not theirs. It's not unreasonable of them to expect you to do your job just as they expected you to do it before.
(I wanted to say "your problem", but that sounded harsh)
It's once a year. You have lots of warning.
Is there anyone else at the company who wouldn't be going but could conceivably fulfil your role at this event? Someone who could do it just as well (or better) than you? If so, you could try to see if they could do it instead, BUT don't be surprised if you then later get overlooked for other opportunities - ones that you might want to do. The other person will have had the chance to show their skills and to do an exceptional job and get positive attention (something that is often much easier outside of the usual routine). You will have turned down that chance.
Why can't you drive on the motorway?
My employer (HR person) actually postponed a similar event for me when DS was 9mo which I thought was nice. But it's not just a once a year thing so easy for me to go another time.
Are you BU? I think it depends on the job tbh. If it's just a ten-a-penny job to you, and you don't really care then I can't blame you (although I'd question why you weren't looking for something else). If you are in a more specific role with defined responsibilities etc then you should take it more seriously.
I do not like attending events away but I have to- so I limit them as much as possible (so one or two a year), get my husband to drive me/come with me/make a weekend of it, look forward to some time off from children and so on. But I'm not going to tell you it will be fun, some people don't enjoy staying away from home by themselves in hotels and I am one of them, so I sympathise.
I'm assuming your baby is only 6-8 months now?
By 11 months and having been away from you while you work for some time and got used to it, it'll be fine - good for your partner to have some longer-term practice looking after the little one, nice experience for baby, and once you convince yourself baby is in the charge of a perfectly responsible adult, you can enjoy chilling out in a hotel. At that age they eat more, drink other stuff, and are fairly amenable to differing routines.
As a one-off, annual event, I think it would be worth going to generate goodwill from your colleagues and boss. Get a lift if you don't want to drive.
I have to admit when I did similar when ds was that age, he stayed with gps for a night and I wrote a manual for them (to be fair, they did ask for one!), but once I'd got past IF xxx, then call 999! I felt a lot better. Was fine - they got him to sleep by laying him on gf's lap in front of boring documentaries, which was a lot better than letting him cry (probably my biggest fear).
It is hard when they are that tiny but I've always seen a couple of nights away with work as a rest cure. As long as there's someone else competent to look after the dc, I thoroughly enjoy a night or two in a hotel room. I miss the dc and we're all pleased to see each other on my return.
I also like train travel on my own for work, another chance for relaxing.
Not being u r about wanting not to go. I' ve been back 8 months and have had to do 3 nights away in the UK and 4 in the US. I have dodged going back to the US this month because my Manager decided he needed to be mindful about people and travel! But I do have to go again before the year is out.
I really played it up in my mind and worked myself up. In fact I was considering leaving an excellent career because of the internal dialogue I was having with myself about not wanting to go. I ended up stopping bf because of the first time away because I could not express. But it the end, it was all fine and I enjoyed myself. I had a glass of wine, dinner out and spent time with adults. Non of that seemed important to me until I was doing it.
It is not unreasonable to not want to go.
It is very unreasonable to expect your employer to treat you differently because you have a child.
You probably are not the only parent working for the company.
I also work part time and have to go away for a couple of nights almost every month (international trips). I think if it was part of the job before your DS, it's reasonable for them to ask you to do it now too.
It is hard being away from your DC when they're young though, I hated the first couple of times. In fact, as I was still breastfeeding my LO, her and my DH came with me on all my business trips for the first 9 months back at work until she was 18mo. Is that an option?
Your DS will be fine though. I'm still feeding mine - the morning feed is proving particularly difficult to break and when I'm there she does go through a very upset phase first thing in the morning. That is specifically related to BF though. Otherwise she's fine and TBH, she gets over that fast enough.
For a trip 2-3 hours away, I would consider commuting but you'll have to get used to driving on motorways. It's not so bad with practice.
PS - we obviously had to pay the extra for my DD and DH to accompany me but for us it was worth it.
As I read it you haven't gone back to work yet and your DS is still very little. I'm sure the whole prospect of leaving him is a bit daunting for now. But you will get used to it. I expect the thought of this event is just too overwhelming.
But your employers are not unreasonable to want you to go. And I do think it would be unreasonable to say you won't go because you are a mother.
BUT - you say DS will only be 11 months on the first one. Mine were still being breastfed at 11 months at bedtime, morning and at least once, probably more, during the night. I was back working by the time each was 6 months. I would not have gone away overnight until they were weaned. Expressed milk from a bottle didn't work for them at night. So if this spies to you I can see that 2 nights away is too much.
I do not think you would be unreasonable to say you can't go the first year as DS is still so young and will only just be getting used to (nursery/childminder/whatever your plan is) But I do think you would be unreasonable not to go in future years 'because you are a mum now'.
Good luck going back to work. It will all get easier once you get used to it.
I don't think YABU and I don't think your employers ABU either. Imagine if they said "we know you have an 11 months old baby so we are not asking you to come on this trip". There would be outrage. Women have fought to be treated equally in the work place. It works both ways.
However, if you are breastfeeding then your employer should not ask you to work in a way which compromises this, so it is perfectly OK for you to explain that you can't go on the trip for this reason. Out of your whole career, the young baby/toddler days are a tiny fraction so employers should be flexible.
Not wanting to drive on the motorway is your problem.
My work expects me to travel overseas once or twice a year. I didn't resume this until both my children were 2 years old as I was breastfeeding. I was BF beyond 2 as well, but was able to travel.
Going away for two nights at 11 months doesn't at all mean giving up BF, if that's an issue - but do take a breast pump if you have one for your own comfort...
Thank you for all your comments. I had a feeling I was being unreasonable :-( I think it's because I am the one looking after DS 24/7 and I've never been that far away from him that it just seems a really scary thought to leave him. I do also worry that I'm quite far away incase anything bad happened but DP will be there so I probably shouldn't worry.
I did exactly the same as chasedbybees, and had small child plus either oh or my mother in tow, at my expense, until the child in question was no longer nursing at night. No one ever minded - kind of nice to have children knocking around the hotel to leaven such occasions.
And I was a lentil weaving natural term breast feeder, with more than one child.
If we are lucky enough to be in professions where such things are acceptable, I think it's a powerful feminist message to be chairing a meeting with a six month old nursing discreetly, and a role model for younger women entering the profession. I'm certainly encountering more and more of it - but when I was entering the profession, most women in it were either childless, or their children were kind of a shameful secret in their professional lives, which just doesn't seem healthy to me.
Yes it doesn't mean you need to give up bf if you are. My DD was 15 months and I had wanted to give up the moment I started so when I had worked away and couldn't express, for me it was time.
I know when I have to go out again I will hate it until I go, and they it will be fine. It is the build up that is the issue. If you can find a way to work through that (except it?) then I think you will be fine.
YANBU I could never have done that. I would not enjoy it or find it bliss but would be horrible. I did 12 hour shifts at the weekend while DH had DC but even that was hard. I would have quit. That is why I am a SAHM as I hated leaving them (especially later on after I had severe probs having them). Yes I am lucky we can manage on DH's wage.
I sympathise as I need to spend time away for work too - in frankfurt, so not even that exciting a city. I've managed to avoid it until now, but DS is about to turn a year old so I won't be able to for much longer.
It's just one of those things that comes with the territory. I'm single so it is a bit trickier for me as I have to make sure my mum is around and can come and stay for a few days. But still. I'd prefer not to.
YABU, but I totally understand why!
Why are you looking after your ds 24/7 (and how do you do that if you work?) if you have a DP?
What does your DP do to help?
YANBU in not wanting to go, but YABU to expect special treatment now that you're a Mum.
I'm not BF now. And as some people have commented, yes I am currently looking for a new job but finding and getting one takes time. The role I do is 'just help out' at this event. Other people there do have more important roles and it would cause more of an issue if they didn't go. I am not saying that because I am a mum now I want special treatment where ever I go. But my DS won't even be 1 yet and I just feel that's a bit to young to leave... If he was 3 I would probably feel ok about going.
yes, I wondered why you are looking after DS 24/7 - your DP needs to step up and this sounds like a good opportunity for him to do so, so he's prepared and DS is used to him.
I am not saying that because I am a mum now I want special treatment where ever I go
well, to be fair, that is what you said, more or less, in your OP.
The thing is, whatever your view of your job, your employer is paying you a salary to do a particular job - it may not be important to you but it is to him, and you have responsibilities that go with being an employee.
How about doing an advanced driving course, and /or pass plus so you do feel comfortable with motorway driving.
Why don't you bring them with you? The extra hotel costs are usually minimal. If you bring someone who can drive on the motorway, you get a lift and no extra petrol costs. They get a day trip (admittedly while doing childcare). Worth considering perhaps?
I will just have to get over it and go. Thank you for your comments.
If 11 months is too young for a parent to leave, I must be a terrible mother then. I left DS1 overnight at 10 weeks.
An 11 month old can't understand that mummy is at work for 3 days but she will come home after tge 3 days. A baby that age would think their primary carer has just disappeared
If you are not contracted to do overnight stays then I would refuse.
I don't think it is ok to say no overnight stays now you are a mum ever but I would say no overnight stays until your dc is old enough to understand that people go away for a few days and come back again.
3 days is a really long time for a small child.
What a load of old tosh froken!
Work up to it, get your baby used to having other people take care of him, bath him and put him to bed. Then it will only be a problem for you.
The thing that upset me when I went away for three days when DS was 6 months old was that he didn't miss me at all, had no problems eating and sleeping without me and was pleased but not clingy when I returned.
I felt that as the centre of his universe, I should have been a significant absence. But I wasn't. Daddy was a perfectly acceptable alternative.
YANBU in not wanting to go. I used to have to go on these horrific events. I always went though sometimes I was tempted to be sick. It was just taken for granted that everyone would go.
Froken on that basis you wouldn't send your child to nursery then, would you? The OP is not abandoning her baby, she is leaving him with her partner. Does he not count?
froken, that is complete crap
take your WOHM nonsense somewhere else, this isn't the fucking 1950's
Froken has a baby of 9 months, so she's just saying how she's feel. I doubt she's ever left him for a night or two, so it's an emotive and theoretical opinion.
As I said, I was upset when the reality was very different for me to the one I'd envisaged. Not that I wanted DS to be very upset, or bewildered or unhappy to settle. Just that it would have been nice to have been missed.
There is a big difference in my opinion between a few hours of nursery where they have different routines and a baby being at home where they are used to being with their primary carer and the primary carer not being there day after day.
It is my opinion that it isn't fair to leave small children for extended periods of time when the child is not old enough to understand that their special person will come back. That is my opinion it doesn't make it a wrong opinion just because other people disagree.
I believe that as a parent if something feels wrong then it probably is wrong.
YABVVVU. This kind of thing is what puts employers off women with kids! Every week would not be fair, but ONCE A YEAR?
book some motorway lessons, too.
"child is not old enough to understand that their special person will come back"
Lucky DS1 has two "special people", and any sensible parent who needs to leave their child for a short period will ensure that the child is the same, and not completely reliant on just them all the time.
Day after day???? The Op will be away for two nights! Or not at all if she learns to drive on the motorway!
Do you have a partner/parents/parents-in-law to hold the fort?
froken - you didn't say it was your opinion, you said that the OP's baby will be horribly distressed by her travelling for work. Which, as SilverApple's example shows, is a load of bollocks for many babies.
I would take a very dim view indeed of an employee of mine telling me she was unable to travel overnight until her child was of school age.
I think that's a good point Specialsubject.
We want employers to value women as much as they value men in the workplace, but we also want to be able to expect consideration when it comes to normal things about a job like having to attend events overnight.
I really don't think we can have it both ways. If women want to be taken seriously in the workplace once they are mothers, then they have to remain valuable employees that will give as well as take from their employers.
You can't be the only one in your position?
I have to say, as I feel I've been a bit bullish, is that I would have felt the same as you, mainly because I found looking after DD so hard, and assumed that everyone else would too and that wouldn't be fair to them to expect them to 'struggle' with DD as I did. But I would have been wrong, it wasn't that hard, I made it hard. I actually think it would have done me no end of good to have had something like this 'forced' on me.
Thank you froken. I am glad it's not just me with this opinion. I am willing to work 9-5 maybe even some over time if needed. I always work hard and that's not going to be any different now I have a baby! It's just that this is over night and miles away that's just getting to me! But it is just my opinion and I'm not saying I expect everyone to feel the same way. My DP does help but as he works full time I am the one who is always around and there for DS.
Froken I've left my dd's over night with no problems from when they were 4 months old. I'm a SAHM and care for them 24/7. My husband also cares for them when he is home.
We left them with my inlaw and my parents, they were happy to be left and happy to see us when we got back. No tears, no 'mummy I missed you' from the older one. In my opinion and expiearience leaving a baby is often more difficult for the paren than it is for the child. If I'm completely honest I'd say other than a fleeting moment maybe, they don't even notice!
Here we go again with froken going on about how mothers must not leave their babies.
Maybe you should stick to living in your paid maternity leave bubble and let the adults get on with living in the real world?
The fact is if you want equality within the workplace for women (with or without children) then you have to be willing and able to be treated the same as every other employee.
I apologise for not starting original post with "in my opinion" it is only an opinion, I thought that it was accepted that when people post replies to aibu threads they were sharing an opinion not making a final judgement about the situation.
I took ds away for a week ( family death, I needed to attend tge funeral) he was very wary of dp when we returned. That is my experience of my child being separated from parent, I wouldn't choose to do it again if I had any other option.
Why not go and travel back? Get over your fear of motorway driving in advance by booking some motorway tuition? Could you get away from the event by 4-430?
Many mothers, me included are expected to put in hours of motorway driving as part of their job, if you don't want to stay then it's your answer? Or could you just do one night and not the whole three days?
Missfloweryname - I didn't say I skipped off and left my baby without a backward glance. I did find it hard. But it was hard on me, not him.
And you know, sometimes you just have to suck this stuff up if you want to be treated like an adult.
The trouble is OP, it's attitudes like yours that would make employers think twice about employing women of child bearing age. That may be harsh and against the law, but would be understandable. You do working mothers no favours. You simply mustn't use having a baby as an excuse not to fulfil your duties at work.
And why aren't you prepared to drive on the motorway??
I think OP will be one of those mums demanding all the best holidays at work because she is a Mum dont know know.
used to do my nut in at work
and I am a Mum now myself and it still does! seriously it's a once a year deal and I would be weary of how moany and entitled you sound.
being a parent is... nothing special gasp
luckily enough, the child has 2 parents. Therefore 2 "special people"
I very much doubt he will be emotionally scarred for life.
I very much doubt my dcs were, when I had to travel.
And whilst your theory about not going away until they understand you are coming back is marvelous, what if there is an emergency?
Life is not perfect, but as long as the dcs are safe and with a person who love them, then they will not be irrevocably damaged by a couple of days FFS
If you choose to do a job that involves travel, you cannot suddenly say "oh my baby is too small to leave"
It is infuriating.
99% of working parents in my team do their very best to organise their childcare etc without wanting any special treatment so that if there ever is an emergency or an issue then it is very easy to accommodate them. There is 1 person who thinks she is the only person to juggle work and children and is coming very close to pissing everyone else off.
My DP does help
oh dear. He helps. Is he a friend, popping in every so often to give you a hand? Or is he your ds's father, your co-parent? If the latter, he needs to parent. He doesn't stop being a parent because he works. He needs to do bathtimes, bedtimes, and waking-up-in-the-nightimes (and if you're ffing then there's absolutely no excuse).
I think it's important to lay some ground rules about this because once you are both working, there's no difference between you. But he may well think that it's still all for you to do.
You can look at this as a positive opportunity- if your lo is going to be with your partner more, this is an ideal opportunity to get them to spend some time together and for him to get used to doing the whole shebang, not just the fun bits with the assumption it will always be you doing everything. I really think this is so valuable because if the dad sees themselves as capable and able to fully care for the children, it gives you a lot of freedom as a mother (e.g. to go out with friends/to work/to go to a hen do and so on). The most traditional marriages (and the ones where my friends are depressed) are those where the fathers managed to convince everyone they couldn't care for their own children on their own, because it has kept the status quo (mum does everything all the time) for years and years. I would be nervous, go for the minimum amount of time, but give your partner the opportunity to step forward.
Presumably people who think mothers should not leave children overnight until they are old enough to "understand that they will be coming back" wouldn't have another child until then either? Because of course that usually involves a hospital stay.
I would be very concerned if my dh was away from any of our children for a week and they were "wary" of him when they came back?
My dcs have never been any different to me when I have had to travel, they have never been any different with dh either.
Why would they be?
I've only been driving a year and just never needed to drive on the motorway before so I just don't feel confident about it yet... But I do know I need to do it! I think this is the problem... I want to be treated the same as before at work, but I don't want to be forced to stay away from my baby for a few days. And as a lot of people have said, you can't have it both ways!
"I would be very concerned if my dh was away from any of our children for a week and they were "wary" of him when they came back"
I think it is rather sad that fathers are marginalised so often when it isn't necessary. My children were raised by two parents, so as long as one of us was around when they were small, life was fine. Then my parents came onboard, and suddenly there were four people to choose from, be loved completely by and feel comfortable with. Yes, it meant I never quite got the chance to sit on my special throne labelled 'MOTHER' and be adored, but it was a good trade.
I know what froken means.
YABU to not go, it is part of your job.
Also - how do you think it makes your dp feel if you don't trust him to do a good job with his ds whilst you are away?
I have to stay away 2-5 nights around 3 times a year for work - but am an 11 hour flight away!
Neither of my dc or my dh has ever had any issues
The only pain was lugging a breast pump around the US as they both fed until they were 2!
You need to be realistic- 11 months old is fine to be left for a couple of nights. In fact, why not practice and have 1 night away with dp whilst ds stays with a grandparent or something?
If it's only a 2-3 hour drive away, you could commute for the 3 days, if you're so worried about not being home. Lots of people do a 2+ hour each way commute.
You can take advanced driving lessons to get comfortable driving on the motorway.
When my sisters little girl was 11 months old she let me take her on holiday for 5 days. No sister was absolutely fine about this and me and her daughter had a lovely time. My niece certainly didn't seem to suffer any emotional trauma....
You will be leaving your child with its dad - what's the harm??
I think for the 2 years that WHO recommend BF IF the Mother is BF then her unwillingness to travel overnight should not be held against her.
THIS to me is equality in the work place.
Froken if you are going to use your personal situation, it is worth pointing out that your took your child away from their normal home environment for a week which presumably upset their routine and into the stressful situation of a funeral. Doubt your dc's upset had anything at all to do with your partner and everything to do with the complete change in routine. OP is leaving her child at home with her DP, an equally important "special person". I am just staggered that you think it is so awful for a parent to miss 2 mornings and 2 nights (so a total of about 6-7 hours given that OP would otherwise be at work the rest of the time) when the other parent is completely present.
Froken is in the same position as the OP, centre of the universe to a first child. If course she feels that her baby would be scarred by her absence for a few days, she hasn't done it and never will.
The fact that it isn't universally true is irrelevant to her.
The obvious choice is for OP to give up her job and find one that fits all her needs. There will be someone else begging for the opportunity to have her current post. Probably several dozen, or hundred.
Why would your child be so bloody dependent on one parent that they cannot cope without you?
It is a team effort, isnt it? My DH probably spent more time with ds2 in the first year of his life than I did, he is now 10 and it hasnt made the slightest bit of difference to our relationship.
is OP bf then because I didn't actually see that mentioned ?
The OP isn't breastfeeding so that's irrelevant. I also know a lot of women who travel without their babies and continue to BF. By 11 months, your supply is well established
Some of you people are harsh.
Why the need for an overnight thingy in the first place? And what about people with other caring responsibilities etc?
Most jobs do not allow employees to bring their own person leisure time into office hours so why should a job encroach on someone's own time? Which is basically what an overnight means.
my husband would be hugely hirt and embarrassed if it was assumed he couldnt cope for a couple of days alone with his own child!
the whole 'mothers cant possibly dare leave their under 1s' is pathetic. I was adopted at under 1 and as long ad a baby is well cared for, loved and interacted with it doesnt make any difference who is doing that
Well, I've also got two soon-to-be-on-the -jobmarket children...
Perhaps I should be doing all I can to push the Babies Need Mummies agenda and all mothers should SAH until their bubbas are...um...6? 10?...13?
I first went away when DS1 was 4months old on a long wekend training course at Plas Y Brenin.
DH has been hands on since the second he was born so he took over everything, housework was done,meal waiting when I got back and him and the baby had visited relatives, gone for walks round Barley and Pendle.
Since then I have been away very regularly both with work and with friends.
Up until two years ago I went away on residentials with young people about 8 times a year. (sometimes my kids would come with me)
My boys are 17 and 14 now and as a family we are very close. They didn't forget who was their 'primary carer' for goodness sake!
DH is more than capable at looking after babies. I'm sure your DH is as well.
You are working part of a team, you can't pick and choose what you do without looking obstructive and anyway once you are there you may enjoy it.
Most jobs do not allow employees to bring their own person leisure time into office hours so why should a job encroach on someone's own time?
I think you will find that the OP doesn't have to stay over. They aren't forcing her too. It's just that she will have up to 3 hour communte each way.
Most people would, I guess, prefer to have the comfort of a hotel for the night especially if the company pays!
What NotYoMama said, my husband is my co-parent. If I can't trust him to look after our children, who can I?
OP, you are of course BU. Fwiw I had to stay away 2 nights when my youngest was 7 months and it was fucking bliss. Room service, uninterrupted bath, remote control... Aaaaah.
Creature Retorts if people have caring responsibilities which prevent them from travelling, then they should discuss with HR/their line manager. Having a seriously ill partner, being primary carer for a parent with dementia etc might be reasons why it would be difficult to stay away from home. Simply having to leave your child with their other parent (shock) who is presumably competent to look after their OWN child is not a good reason not to go away. As regards eating into the OPs leisure time, I think you'll find, as I mentioned in a previous post, this will be more than balanced out by the times when nursery ring mid-morning to tell the OP that her child has thrown up and has to be collected NOW!
i can really understand you reluctance OP i felt very close to my son at that age and him to me. i hope you find a way through it.
Well I am obvioulsy in the minority here beacuse I wouldn't leave my baby for 2 nights either. I have never left my children overnight even though they are older now. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing it, I know lots of people who do but I just wouldn't have felt comfortable doing it and I still wouldn't.
So Missfloweryname, I don't think YABU but then neither is your employer. I think I would find some excuse not to go though if it was me.
jeez, so many rude and hard posters again, even swearing at the OP who is clearly a naturally loving and sensitive mother. I despair of MN attm, there seem to be a whole bunch of bossy battleaxes on here who seem to positively enjoy berating OPs.
Tbh, despite my saying that I think OP is BU to expect her employer to let her off certain aspects of her job just because she's a parent, I would feel the same as her and Froken and i wouldnt have left my children for that long at that age. The difference is that I wouldn't expect to be able to keep my job and I wouldn't expect my employer or colleagues to accommodate me.
I also don't think you can discriminate between bfin and non bfing mothers. Whether someone is bfing or not is irrelevant to their job, and giving mothers space to express if they need to in the workplace is enough.
Funnily enough zower we all feel close to our children.
I would imagine that most of us also trust that the person we chose to have children with is quite able to cope with looking after their own child.
'I think OP will be one of those mums demanding all the best holidays at work because she is a Mum'.
I think so too. And I agree that this sort of attitude doesn't exactly help to improve employers' opinions of women of child-bearing age.
OP, your baby has two parents and the other parent, one has to assume, is perfectly capable of looking after him.
but a lot of us are also naturally loving and sensitive mothers.
we just dont try to delude ourselves that not going is for the benefit of the baby rather tHan for the benefot of herself.
OP didnt say anything about not trusting her dp, her main reason was 'i just dont want to ' and 'i am a mother' to which a lot of us equally caring and loving mothers have responded
"i felt very close to my son at that age and him to me"
Oh that explains it! That's why I was able to leave DS1 with DH at 10 weeks. I wasn't close to him! Silly me.
The trouble is "finding an excuse not to go" means putting more work on another employee. Who may well also be a parent or someone who has other reasons not to want to go.
Its not fair on everyone else who has accepted that this event is only once a year and has arranged their lives accordingly.
Its not fair to expect everyone else to pick up the slack because you do not want to leave your child.
Either do the job properly or do not do it all. Dont expect everyone else to do the bits that you do not want to do.
zower are you telling the people posting not agreeing with the OP that they aren't loving mothers?
The OP has a responsibility to her employers. This once a year event is not new. She knows she has an obligation to help at this event. if she doesn't want to do it she should get another job, and let one of the thousands of people who would be thrilled to have her job, have it.
clearly not flowry
I must have not been close to dd either. in fact a possibly failed her completely when I went away for a weekend when she was one whispers to relax with some friends
actually I came home to beaming smiles, cuddles and a chatty and well fed and loved baby I could have died from shock, I though she would have just wasted away without me
You're clearly a terrible mother flowery
You can't question how close or loving a mother is like this zowler
I'll admit it, I sometimes enjoy working away, getting to have my handbag filled with items just for me, getting a meal, a bath, a huge bed and breakfast all to myself and of course doing a good job while I'm there.
I facetime DH and DS at bed and morning time, then come home refreshed and happy.
See, if this were a weekly or even monthly event, the OP would get more sympathy. But it's not. It's something she'll be required to do twice a year. 4 to 6 nights of not doing bedtime a year. And she could commute rather than staying over, if she chose to.
Sometimes missing bedtime, or tea time is inevitable in parenthood. It isn't cruel and detached mothers who don't give a shit about their kids that realise this; it's just pragmatic ones. It won't harm the baby any more than the OP going out with her friends would.
After all these years of running round after my boys, making them meals they liked, taking them to places they love going to, having great times together, chatting about nothing and everything, having 'in' jokes as a family, having our own traditions, having a kiss goodbye and hello everyday even having a pint with DS1 after going to a sports game with him I thought I was quite loving.
Apparently not because I went away when he was little!(and still do!) Poor mite ( well he is not a poor mite, he is 6ft 4 and lovely!!)
I can see why you might want to miss the first one, when he is under a year, but not after that. You could take your full maternity and then not have to go this time if it bothers you that much.
I never said that a baby who's mother left for a couple of days would be damaged. I just don't think it would bea nice experience for tge baby or tge mother.
I think it is ridiculous that employers expect employees to work away when it is mot in their contract but I did do it before I had a baby. Now I wouldn't do it, if it was that important tge employer should have written it into the contract.
OP had already accepted she is BU, so any bunfight is a bit of a waste of time
So what will you do froken?
Expect your co workers to pick up the slack because you have a child?
I have a colleague like that. She will not be at all flexible, cries if she cannot get every single holiday off, refuses to travel out of the office for meetings "in case I get delayed"
And that's not overnight travel. That's a 10am meeting an hour away.
So we all pick up the slack. Funnily enough, we are all working parents as well.
I would be livid if an employer suggested I couldn't do something on account of having a child. It's bad enough dealing with the career devastation children inflict without making it institutional.
But then I found work more fun than babies anyway.
The OP is not being unreasonable not to want to go. But I agree with Tantrums. That colleague sounds very hard work indeed. I think it is better there is at least one other person whether it be partner friend or relative your DC can be left with in case of emergency or other. I disagree with froken totally. There is only one person in the whole world my child will stay with and that's me. What an ego trip that must be.
But then I found work more fun than babies anyway
Thank god I am not the only one
I thought I'd get burned alive, Tantrums
OP - honestly you are spoiling it for all of us working mothers who dont bring their lifestyle choices to work (and having children is a lifestyle choice IMHO).
I did some interviewing for some part time roles 18 months ago and mentioned that a number of the women coming to the interview had a great sense of 'entiltement' to being mothers. One told me in great detail why she couldnt attend the one day that was set aside for interviews. It really isnt of interest to a complete stranger why you cannot make Tuesday because your Mum plays tennis that day!
I was flamed....
Please - if you really dont want to leave your child for any length of time there are plenty of part time roles where you wont need you to do that. Thinking of supermarket work. Of course it doesnt pay enough I suspect.
I work with lots of Mums and am one myself.
We have frequent site visits and all laugh about how keen the Mums are when it comes time to put hands up for who is going.
My children have never been wary of me or DH if we have been away.
I wiuld be deeply concerned if they had that reaction, it sounds very unusual.
I've recently been made redundant, I'm looking for a part time role. I have always traveled internationally, never taken any sick leave, or leave for childcare emergencies.
It really grates on me the entitled attitudes of some women, especially when it impacts on the rest of us!
I am looking for another job as I have said before. No I do not expect to get all the best holidays off!! I have booked nothing off! I am having the standard days off at Xmas same as everyone else! And if I got a job in a supermarket I would either get the same or possibly more money. I don't understand why some of you are making nasty comments.
Can your DO take a couple of days off and come and stay with you at the hotel?
I did this when DH had to work away as he didn't want to leave us for a week and it was a really nice break for us too. While he was working we got to know a new place, took her to the local Sure Start, soft play etc and we went out for dinner in the evenings.
YABU - once a year is really not an issue. and please be careful speaking to your employer about this as your childcare issues and worries are not their concern. You have a role to fulfill, ensuring you can fulfill it is your job.
being asked to go away for 3-4 days is one of my little fantasies.
nice clean travelodge, some else to cook breakfast, sole charge of the remote control, going to bed safe in the knowledge that I won't be woken up three times by each child because they're too hot/cold/whatever
in fact, I am
I am not sure ds remembered dp after our trip he was only 7 months old, I think he was taken aback by dp wanting to hug him and hold him when he first saw him. After we had been away ds also was shy around family members that he saw lots and was previously very happy with. He is fine now, for a couple of days he wanted me to feed/bath/dress him but he got used to his dad again.
I don't understand why people feel tge need to be rude about other people's opinions. I personally wouldn't leave a baby for 2 nights but some people would. Thats fine we are all different, it is good for the op to see that there is a range of opinions.
Just noticed you asked why people were being nasty.
Ask yourself this would you have complained pre-baby about being away. Would you have thought it unreasonable at that time.
If the answer is no you need to ask yourself why you find it unreasonable now. Again as I stated in my last comment your baby and childcare are nothing to do with your employer. They cannot and should not have to take into consideration your arrangements when planning there business.
Often mums who return to work (as you can see from many of the comments) come back expecting that there new situation should be accomodated by there employer but that is not the case, their business and your job role is the same as it was before and they have the same expecatations of you. If that no longer works for you now that you are a parent, then possibly a change of role within the company would work better rather than having to leave?
Worth talking to HR about if you are serious about resigning.
OP had already accepted she is BU, so any bunfight is a bit of a waste of time
That maybe so but the bunfight has been redirected at others who seem to imply mothers who do go away aren't as loving and perhaps not meeting the needs of their child.
YABU. Not only are you giving working mothers a bad name, but you are being unfair to colleagues who are having to pick up your slack. As a childless person, I got heartily fed up of having to cover for various parental "emergencies". Childless people also like taking time off at Christmas, and think it's fair that everyone should take turns at doing the overnights and occasional early starts/weekends.
froken, has it occurred to you that your son's responses might be alleviated if he was more used to being left with other adults who love him and could care for him? So that he wasn't so disconcerted when things changed for a brief period of time?
If I'd had to have gone away at 11 months I wouldn't have been keen as I was still BF. But given junior didn't sleep through the night until 16 months it would also have been a blessed opportunity to get some rest.
My 8 month old is occasionally a bit clingy to me, reaching out for me when DH has her etc. But he is very hands on and hasn't been away from her at all.
I suspect that Froken is projecting her feelings about her DC being away from their father onto perfectly normal baby behaviour.
Haven't read the other answers yet - got fed up of all the hard-faced bitch careerist ones. YANBU.
If this course is not a contractual obligation then they can't make you attend. For the record neither of the multinational companies I and my DH have worked for would expect attendance on such a course for a working Mother with such a young child.
In a year's time you may feel differently of course but it should be your decision not theirs. Sorry about all the unsympathetic replies you have received.
ukalast so who has to go on all these events then?
Who has to take over from you because you happen to have had a child?
It impacts on everyone.
I have 3 older children. So would I have to go?
Even though it is a logistical nightmare when the DCs are older?
That's it Charlotte.
An expense account, a nice hotel and an unbroken night's sleep.
No lists of the 50 things you have to do between work and daycare runs and what is for dinner and who is whacking who and why is the washing machine making that noise and who threw up and so on.
Just dinner with other adults, a long hot bath and then a full night's sleep.
* froken, has it occurred to you that your son's responses might be alleviated if he was more used to being left with other adults who love him and could care for him? So that he wasn't so disconcerted when things changed for a brief period of time?*
I hadn't thought of it like that, it's a good point! I will keep that in mind when he starts daycare to try to stop myself feeling worried.
It was a stressful trip and it was also around the time ds became "mummyish" ( I'm not sure if there is an English word for that) so those factors could have contributed to his reaction. Dp is a lovely dad, he looks after ds 50% of the time now ( although he didn't at the time) so I'm not worried that there is something wrong with their relationship they are at baby singing at the moment so I can rest
mumsnet I don't think dads are any less able to parent, given the choice I'd want both of ds's parents to see him every day.
Ironically, true family-friendliness from a Corporation would be HR realising OP's child is a bit young to be left overnight 2-3 hours drive away.
They could also supply a babysitter on site if her attendance were so crucial.
Trying to outmen the men is ultimately fruitless - your kids are only young for a very short time.
I very much doubt that not attending will impair OP's ability to do her job as some have implied. It should be her choice based on her feelings at the time.
"hard-faced bitch careerist"
I LOL'd at that and that hardly ever happens.
Anyfucker - I know!
I am twirling around mataphorically tying on my new title from the vantage point of my two-day-a-week job!
Tanrumsandballoons - I chose to SAH, so doesn't apply to me but I would suggest if the majority find it logistically difficult, it would be better and cheaper to run such courses on a 'day only' basis and at least that would get you out of that crap evening stuff they do. I think they are called Awaydays. Cheaper for company too.
My company did do nights away but female colleagues with young kids were not pressurised.
trying - not tying. Obviously, proof-reading does not form part of my bitch responsibilities.
Anyfucker - what a delightful choice of username.
YANBU, as it means spending a night away. DS at 11 months wouldn't have slept at all without his night feed and would have been awake in several times wanting a feed. I also wouldn't want to be away from him at night either and I still wouldn't now that he is 2.
I can change my username though....
God there is a tussle in my office over who gets to go.
No pressure required.
All of my scientists are women, most of them have kids. If we all decided not to go/take the kids it would be a disaster.
I hate that cliché 'for such a short time'. If you were given a prison sentence of five years, would you say blithely that was just for a short time? Especially if someone then imposed another one on you a couple of years in....
Not saying, obviously, that
the stifling powerlessness of early childhood is like prison. But it isn't for just a short time. Feels like forever, when you're going through it. Especially as you're awake for so much of it.
I am wondering when Mum's are saying their child is clingy, wakes up in the middle of the night looking for them, night feeds etc.
What has this to do with your employer??
I'd far rather a company acknowledges fathers' parenting responsibilities than makes kindly exceptions for women's.
'hard-faced bitch careerist ones.'
Nice. Classy. Constructive.
'Anyfucker - what a delightful choice of username.'
Bit rich in the light of the above, no?
<<considers namechange to HardFacedBitchCareeristOne>>
well said, MI
giving women excuses for not fulfilling their job role as they should do lets men off the hook
unless of course men are given similar dispensations (but we know they are not, and nor do they feel entitled to them)
Yep, my entire education and professional life is all because I want to outmen the men.
Nothing whatsoever about the financial security, intellectual satisfaction and job satisfaction I get from being away from my dcs 3 days a week for 8 hours a day.
When DS was 8 months old I had to go into hospital for an op for three days.
He and DD (then 2) were brought in once to visit me, but as I looked rather a mess they stayed away after that.
DH coped, they coped.
Frankly you are underestimating the resilience of your child.
ukalast whether you agree with overnight events is irelevant.
The OP knew this event was happening.
She knew she would be expected to attend.
So IMVHO she can't suddenly decide she doesn't want to leave her child and make everyone else cover for her. Just because she decided to have a baby.
I'm sure she isn't the only parent working for that company.
<joins the bitch face careerists bench>
I may put that on my business cards
handcream - It doesn't have anything to do with the employer but for me it means I wouldn't go somewhere overnight without DS for work.
Quote Bonkers:I don't think YABU and I don't think your employers ABU either. Imagine if they said "we know you have an 11 months old baby so we are not asking you to come on this trip". There would be outrage. Women have fought to be treated equally in the work place. It works both ways. '
Bonkers this is called 'equality of misery' and is where people are going wrong. Her employer giving her the choice, her employer giving a male colleague with an elderly mother to care for, the choice is entirely what a reasonable employer should be doing.
You should be standing up for fairness according to individual circumstances for everyone not equality of misery.
I would be grateful for your thoughts on this :-)
My thoughts would be 2 nights of uninterrupted sleep, bed to myself, possibility of having a few nice quiet drinks in the evening, maybe a hotel gyn to use, a stack of DVDs and my laptop, WHEN CAN I GO ?????
I'm with you jellybeans
I would have hated this, and it would be an ordeal for me, not "A break" or "Bliss"
I also used to work 12 hours on a Sunday, and hated being away from my DC, and they were not babies at this time.
YANBU, If it isn't mandatory, I would also refuse to go, Missflowery
Tantrums - I thought she is still on mat leave or has only just gone back. She is probably thinking ahead - it may not even be an issue with her line manager as we are not all unaware of employment law or unable to see that someone may have personal reasons for not attending. This event is likely a teambuilding course - in which case no one needs cover for her.
I don't want that choice, thanks. I want choices, day to day ones, about work hours and about fathers' work hours and about doing my job, not getting out of it.
DH goes to the gym when he is away.
I can't imagine why.
I like to sit in the bed eat chips and watch trashy TV.
My boys think I am awesome. Because I am obviously. They don't appear miserable.
Afterall I have never done this myself...but she could always do a sickie. Surely better to be straight upfront that she will not be attending this year.
Don't blame you for feeling a bit woeful about it - your ds is still very small and while you are still at home it probably does feel like a big deal. It'll be far less daunting once you are back at work and in the swing of things. Obv. it's not unreasonable of your employer to expect you to go, as you've gathered from everyone else.
Your ds and dp will be fine. Make sure you get paid for the third day, mind.
(I have just returned from a wearisome work event spread over three days where the whole organisation has to go. Deeply dull/irritating in all sorts of ways. So I do sympathise - if there had been any way of getting out of last weekend, I would have jumped at it...)
Re-read the thread if you don't think you were all with rare exceptions being bitchy.
MI, you know my job... if you did it, I promise you'd be grateful for any reason to get out of last weekend's conference, even if it did involve pandering to sexism.
Tantrums, is there another space on the bench ?
[whispers very quietly] usually I can't wait to go to work on a Monday morning. It's like a paradise of sustained sitting down, adult chat and
mumsnetting in my lunchhour having a gentle stroll at lunchtime
Yanbu, I would absolutely hate this too. If it's not mandatory, I wouldn't go tbh. Your ds is still young and your employers should understand.
Plenty of space on the bench
lol at hard faced careerist bitch
I'm a part time bottom of the ladder working mother who loves their child just as much as the OP loves hers
its because of stuff like this (suddenly unable to do your job as you are a mother) that makes it harder for women in the long run as bosses will develop prejudices when it comes to hiring.
men should step up to the parenting plate a lot more and women should let/ demand it of them.
Women will always have these problems in the workplace as long as they keep on doing the lions share of the child care. The majority of men are lucky enough to have their careers unaffected by becoming a parent. Lucky men hey
Don't say that Nigel we are supposed to be torn between two worlds.
Not actually rather enjoying the contrasts.
Bloody hell, all this fuss, you would have thought that the OP had been asked to re locate to some where at the other side of the globe at a minutes notice. She is only going somewhere that is 3 hours away at most.
Options are simple
Go and stay
Go and come home, get up early and go again.
You want the job, you are happy to take the pay every month,you are part of a team, you have a partner who is more than happy to take over baby duties. You are in a hugely better place than a lot of other people at the moment.
As your op says it's just that you don't want to go.
Well I don't want to work every other weekend but like I said before to you I realize that I am getting paid every month, I need (want) the money and I am in a position a lot of other people want to be in, so I just get on with it.
''You can look at this as a positive opportunity- if your lo is going to be with your partner more, this is an ideal opportunity to get them to spend some time together and for him to get used to doing the whole shebang, not just the fun bits with the assumption it will always be you doing everything. I really think this is so valuable because if the dad sees themselves as capable and able to fully care for the children.''
Agree with this from Mumsyblouse it is also positive in another sense in that your DH may do things differently from you, but that doesn't mean it is wrong and it could be a lovely time for the two of them to know eachother better. You have some time to prepare for this so get him used to settling him.
I think that going back to work is always daunting, it won't be so bad once you go back. I wouldn't commute that distance for three days, you won't have any meaningful time with your child as you will probably leave as they wake up and get back at or after bedtime.
I'm sure my DH would be a bit pissed off being described as a 'secondary' carer. He goes away for a day or two every couple of months and a week abroad each year. I would say that DS (6yo) misses him more than the younger two as he understands more. The other two just get on with it.
Surely if you refuse to go because you need to 'look after your baby' and there is NO ONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD WHO CAN DO THIS APART FROM YOU it wont help mothers who make a choice and try and have a career and kids. Where is the father?
I have seen friends time and time ago for the ego boost that says 'she wont settle with anyone but me'. I am the centre of their universe. Lets lock the Dad out - after all he is only a man and wont be able to do what I do...
Please - if you dont want to work then find a job where you wont be expected to travel.
Another bitch faced careerist here
Since I had ds1 I've been away two nights, three days every year to our annual conference. This year's is in December when ds2 will be six months and I'm going to go. He'll be fine, like ds1 was always fine, at home with daddy.
OP at the moment I know it seems terrifying but I promise it'll be ok. Give yourself licence to enjoy it.
It seems that a lot of women feel their children's fathers are incapable of child care, and won't allow them to get fully involved and set off this ridiculous vicious of circle of being martyred that they are stuck at home and can't possibly go away (OP this is not a specific dig at you BTW, just a general observation on other comments).
My DH cared equally for our DT's - he had to, we had no other help - when he was home from work and at weekends. They were our children and he was as responsible for their care as I was - I was encouraged to go away for a day/weekend when it became possible, he took them out every Sunday for 3 hours to give me the house to myself and we have always shared parenting. There has never been an occasion when I have not felt able to leave them with him. Likewise I have been happy for him to have w/ends away for a break too. All irrelevant now as they are at uni!
A lot of the time these things are only difficult because we make it that way.
I'm not sure I would have gone when my DC were 11 months. We were having awful trouble with DC1 and sleep at that age, very stressful.
Absolutely handcream these mummy martyr posts make me sick . Your baby has a father - to be perfectly blunt, what would happen if you had to go into hospital
or dropped dead? Your baby would soon adapt to someone else caring for him/her. I made absolutely sure that when my baby was born he was never 100% reliant on me - his father is just as important in his life.
Change - surely an even better reason for you to get away and have a good night's sleep? .
Ragwort, why do you think its the mother who makes the child dependent on them? I asked (begged) DH to take DS in the evenings at the weekend from early on. He wouldn't wake up or would wake me up two minutes later and say he wants a feed. He never did anything for DS at night until he was 11 months old. DH even complained if I patted DS at night as it kept him awake.
frostyfingers we have young twins too, DH has to be a full on parent, and say it quietly he really enjoys it and is a great father.
His employers have also been great, not expected to go to conference on another continent 6 weeks after I had twins, no overseas travel just before I was due to give birth (overseas travel was a large part of that job) and going in late to work as he stayed overnight with DS1 when he was taken into hospital. Some employers are flexible with parents, it works both ways.
YANBU and please don't let anyone tell you that you are.
You've posted in AIBU and people like to have a go IMO. If you'd posted in breast & bottle feeding, parenting or employment issues you would undoubtably have got a more balanced response.
At 11 months, your employer would by law need to keep your job open if you had decided your baby was too young for you to come to work at all. Being away for 3 days is a bigger ask IMO. Some mums and babies might be fine with this but some may not.
I left DS with MIL for New Years Eve when he was 12 months. She said he was fine, but she later admitted that he screamed for pretty much 6 hours
I can't believe the unsupportiveness of the comments on this thread (well actually I can, this is AIBU). You're not saying you can't go because you;re a mother, full stop. You're saying you can't go because you're a mother of a very young baby!
You're instincts are right IMO. If your baby is breastfed and used to you being around, 3 days away from you all of a sudden could be very distressing indeed. And it could mess with BFing, which could affect the long term health of your child, ultimately.
In your shoes I'd ask about being allowed not to go this year (reminding them that you are back to work early - you did not take the full year, as you are entitled to). If they said no, I'd start looking for a new job asap.
And next time you have a serious question, please post it somewhere other than AIBU!
Sorry, should have said "very young child", not "very young baby"!
The first time is the worst OP (for you, your baby will be fine) but if it makes you feel any better I left my 11-month old DD1 to go to Canada to work for 12 days...She was fine. I maybe go away once a month on a 2-3 day work trip within Europe and while the first year it takes some organisation on my part with bfeeding, the children are fine and looked after by their father while I am away. Honestly, 2 hours' drive within the UK, 2 nights away, baby with her father, this is not child abuse. Imagine you were your DC's dad. You wouldn't give this another thought, and nor would anyone else.
What about a motorway driving lesson if you hate mway driving but it'd be much easier to go by car? Then if anything happened you could get back any time and that might be reassuring.
Also you will probably feel better about it generally once you've actually gone back to work, the anticipation's worse than the reality. Good luck and try not to worry.
My dad looked after me when I was small and Mum went out to work. It was fine and I still love my mum !
She is not still breastfeeding. If you can't be bothered to read the whole thread, at least be bothered to read the OPs posts.
I agree with threefeet. You should have replaced 'employer' with 'mil' and I can guarantee you there would have been a fucking uproar at the very thought of leaving your child when you didn't feel ready. And I say that as someone who was happy to leave her child willy nilly for a bit of peace :D
Women will always have these problems in the workplace as long as they keep on doing the lions share of the child care
But she has someone to do the childcare. She just doesn't want to do. You cannot blame this on her employer, they have expected her to go just as they have expected everyone else to go.
It's not her employer's fault that she's pulling the poor little woman whose employers are being unfair card.
I dont think 'she will only settle for me' is anything to be smug about, it must be bloody hard.
it may be these people who dont let/ want ttheir dps to play an active role and wouldnt dream of leaving a child with them will be the ones crying in AIBU in the future as they have somehow ended up doing all the housework and all baby things and working and stressing while their dp is totally disconnected infront of the tv
wild ott shit stirring speculation
when I went into hospital I was still breastfeeding .... the anaesthetic stopped my milk completely for a week but it came back.
kids were more freaked by my face when I came home (nose surgery) than by my absence.
Kids cope with multiple carers.
If you don't want it that way, don't expect employers to bend the law for you.
I'm not someone who enjoys a night away from their children. I miss them and don't get that feeling of a 'break'. There's nothing wrong with that. I always go for the 'long commute' option rather than an overnight when I have to choose.
I am also the main earner in my family. So I'm very very aware of the responsiblity that comes with being employed.
A job which you can return to part time and wants you to do ONE short stay away a year is a damn good deal for a working parent who does not want to return to work fulltime.
If I was the OP I would consider the employer to have done the 'family friendly' bit by letting me go part time. If that doesn't suit, they need to look for another job. Or perhaps not one at all if they find this one concession hard to make. Seriously - there is a big difference between expecting an employer not to treat everyone as if they were single childless men - and expecting the world to revolve around you.
PS OP, sort out that motorway driving issue. I don't like driving full stop - but I make sure I do it so I don't become dependent on others, or can only use public transport. Knowing I can jump in a car in an emergency and get back to my family quickly if I have to gives me peace of mind. You really can't ask an employer to compromise on where they ask you to go partly because you 'don't feel comfortable' driving on the motorway.
I agree with you NotYo, but I do think some women revel in it a bit. They want to be the centre of their child's world and feel that no one else is quite as good. And I don't think it does anyone in the family much good tbh - it doesn't build solid foundations for a relationship between a father and his kids if he's reduced to a 'helper' role.
You should have replaced 'employer' with 'mil' and I can guarantee you there would have been a fucking uproar at the very thought of leaving your child when you didn't feel ready.
but the OP (or anyone in this position) doesn't have any obligation to their MIL. They do have an obligation to their employer and colleagues.
I agree that the real issue is that companies and, to be honest, fathers are crap at ensuring that both parents are given some degree of flexibility, whilst being aware of their responsibilities in the workplace. I wonder how many fathers take up the option to cover half of maternity leave, now that this option is available? Are they fighting for their employers to ensure that this is made feasible? My gut instinct tells me not, though I would love to be proved wrong.
You should have replaced 'employer' with 'mil' and I can guarantee you there would have been a fucking uproar at the very thought of leaving
It's hardly the same thing. Most DILs aren't on their MILs payroll
no I am in total agreement with you kiriwara. trying to be sarcastic on the internet has failed me lol
No one has an obligation to work uncontracted antisocial hours. It is great if you can or want to but youdon't have to.
Just because your employer pays your wage doesn't mean they own your life. If a person doesn't want to go away on a work trip they shouldn't be made to feel guilty.
I don't think wanting an employee to participate in a trip of 2 nights once a year could constitute an employer thinking they own someone's life. Anyway, the OP has already said it's not compulsory, but has identified that it would be sensible to go if possible.
If employees want flexibility from an employer wrt going part time, dealing with child sickness etc, it is sensible to show a bit of willing back where possible, rather than working to rule and only doing what is specifically stated in a contract.
I think the OP needs to be careful here. She has a part time job. She is only required to go away for a few days A YEAR.
All of you who are saying 'leave, demand this and that'. You arent the same people who are complaining there are no part time roles and if there are they wont let you take emergency leave, first choice for hols just because you have kids are you...
Going away once a year for a few days is hardly an employer "owning your life".
I think anyone confusing the demands that family members make with the relationship between employer and employee must find working life very hard (or family life - I guess it could cut both ways).
Fathers do need to be more active in asking for flexibility at work/paternity leave. They tend to be much less likely to ask, and their requests are more likely to be refused. They are more likely to be seen as 'opting out' of career progression (whereas a lot of employers tend to assume that of working mothers anyway....). Employers need to be better at being more balanced in terms of gender when they think about employees and caring responsibilities.
However, the OP is still in a good position as a working parent - much better than a lot of working mothers - and is being unrealistic in not wanting to do one away trip in 12 months.
(I commute 7 hour plus journeys when I have to work away, btw, rather than stay overnight. But I still breastfeed and co-sleep, so it makes sense for me. It is tiring, but I set that against doing a rewarding and lucrative job, with enough day to day flexibility that I can spend more time with my children than a lot of working parents)
Surely 2 days per year away from home isnt an employer owning someone's life!
If it is part of your contract of employment you may need to work some hours that you don't want to. OP may have a clause that includes that or it may be implied because she has done it for the past x number of years. I agree an employer does not own your life, but flexibility needs to work both ways.
Agree with justforjeans that one short overnight trip a year with PT working, if it is somewhere that you like to work at anyway, is a really good deal. I think it is usually easier to get good PT working and flexibility in a job that they already know you on and where you have built up some goodwill previously.
About the mil analogy, the issue here is that the father will be looking after his child. OP may not want to do it, but the employer is not being unreasonable in asking for it.
froken - I'd imagine the OP's contract contains a clause which something along the lines of 'Your normal office hours will be 9am until 5pm with one hour for lunch, meaning your standard hours are 35 hours a week (or 21 hours in the OP's situation). You may however be required to extend these hours on occasion.'
I've never had a contract which doesn't include something along those lines because it's inevitable that people are going to have to work above and beyond on occasion.
Good point flowery. If we want employers who will be flexible with us, and make allowances for the various upsets and emergencies that family life throws at us, why shouldn't we be a bit flexible in return?
I'd be wary about doing a 'work to rule' for an employer I liked, or in a job I valued. children or not.
If you don't want it that way, don't expect employers to bend the law for you. It's not the law that she has to travel. OP says "It's not mandatory but it's expected".
And therein lies the problem. If it was mandatory or the law then it would be black and white. No one would have this dilemma of wondering whether their reason for not going is good enough (BF baby, hen night, can't be arsed), you'd go or know that it would look bad, or you could face disciplinary action.
This grey situation causes just this problem and it's one I have faced.
I was never put under pressure to travel when my children were tiny, yet when your boss then turns round and say "the fact is, you weren't there, you don't have a presence at the moment, it will be noticed"...well, I feel that actually my career has been effected by me having children. He also got this false impression that I didn't like to travel, purely based on only starting to be my boss when I had a 9 month old.
It's a load of bollocks.
Op you'll be fine honestly. I had only been driving 5 months when I had to collect my husband from a course 4 hours away and I got hopelessly lost, my phone ran out of charge and I couldn't remember my husbands mobile number. It was bloody awful but I managed to get there (2 hours late and with the very kind help from a couple at a service station who actually drew me a very detailed map) and I have to say that I was really proud of myself for not losing it a turning home. It cured my fright of motorways and I bought an in car charger for my phone and a satnav!
Of course you will miss your child but by then I can guarantee you will be pleased of a little break and it will be lovely when you are all reunited again.
My husband goes away and he always says its so wonderful when he comes home because he gets treated like a king because we have missed him all so much!
Sat Nav's are really really great. They give you the utmost confidence and also having a car charger for your phone will cost you about £4....
Every hairy car journey I do, I chalk up as EXP points!
Drove to Edinburgh for work, got lost in road works, phoned venue brink of tears... EXP points! I did it! It was awful but I did it!
Only way to learn is to gain experience!
You cannot blame this on her employer, they have expected her to go just as they have expected everyone else to go. I'm not blaming it on her employer . I'm simply pointing out that while women work and take on the majority of child care responsibilities, in the OP's case to the point she feels she doesn't want to leave her child for a few days with her partner, they will have more issues in the workplace than the majority of men for whom having a child does not affect their career.
No one has an obligation to work uncontracted antisocial hours. It is great if you can or want to but you don't have to.
*Just because your employer pays your wage doesn't mean they own your life. If a person doesn't want to go away on a work trip they shouldn't be made to feel guilty.
Of course she has to go on a work trip if she is expected to. She isn't obliged in this case to stop over. She doesn't want to. So she has the optin of coming home.
The choice is hers. What's the drama?
it is this sentence Or is it unreasonable them expecting me to go now I'm a mum? that is bonkers.
Oh, about the driving thing.
If you have a child in trouble several hundred miles away, the fastest way to get to them is usually by motorway.
I've done this several times, sometimes in the middle of the night. No way would my child be put in more distress by my inability to cope with a challenging drive.
If it really matters to you, if it is hugely important, then you can do it.
I have a breastfed, bottle-refusing co-sleeping 11 month old and I still managed to go away with work for one night last week. She ate regular food and drank water. I expressed. She co-slept with my husband and 2yo. And gave me enormous amounts of cuddles when I came home. It was all fine. I just don't get all this drama.
I'm ignoring all the film flam. The basics are the trip is once a year.
Once a year.
So once done it's not expected for another 300+ days?! Plenty of time to look for a new job then. Stop moaning. Get used to compromise, and in terms of that you appear to have it fairly good don't you.
I'm ignoring all the film flam. The basics are the trip is once a year.
Once a year.
So once done it's not expected for another 300+ days?! Plenty of time to look for a new job then. Stop moaning. Get used to compromise, and in terms of that you appear to have it fairly good don't you.
So good it appears iPhone posted it twice..... :0/
Faithless - are you still with your DH, did he want to become a Dad? He sounds like a throwback to the 1950s. But did your behaviour in any way enable him to act like that? Did you never just go out and leave your baby with his own father?
From the minute (literally ) that we got home from hospital (EMCS/serious health issues with our baby so fairly traumatic) I made sure that I was never, ever going to be the 'most important' carer to my child - my husband wanted a baby and therefore he knew he had to get involved in everything (except breast feeding ).
Yep DH wanted a child a DD to be exact but hey ho. The only way I enabled his behaviour was he said he needed his sleep which I agreed with during the week during the weekend I expected his help at night. The only thing he would do is bath him but then make a big deal about he baths DS. My first day at work was a shock to him as he stayed at home with DS. I asked for so much help in the first year I hate even thinking about it.
I think the posters who have a downer on the employer saying they shouldn't be asking employees to go away seem to forget some of the nights away COULD actually be in the employees interest.
I have been away to gain qualifications in outdoor stuff, which resulted in promotion, in other jobs I have been away to attend conferences on change in legislation which was very relevant to what I was doing.
Things like this contributes to the negative attitude towards part time workers, especially women with children. We all know children are more important than work, and should be to dads as well. But work is important and if you're not going to commit to a reasonable level (three days, once a year is perfectly reasonable), then it can lead to a lot of resentment
YANBU at all, it sounds like you are both very attached to each other. I have had to go to events requiring one or two nights stay, and have payed extra for OH to come and stay with me. Perhaps you can do this?
Have you actually discussed it with your manager?
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