Pedestrians

(289 Posts)
MardyBra Thu 03-Oct-13 23:29:18

Please do not "nip in front" of my car as I am pulling out of a junction.
Oh, and a quick cheeky cross of the road just as the lights are changing and I've been waiting for ages isn't great either.

I don't want to kill you.

I know I'll be flamed as an imperialist gas-guzzling car driver even though my business couldn't function with a car but some of you have been getting on my tits this week.

FrightRider Thu 03-Oct-13 23:30:47

also stop walking behind my car when i have the reverse lights on... fucking wait you impatient arseholes!

Tuonz Fri 04-Oct-13 01:11:56

Yy. And the lovely tesco car park that was built with pedestrians in mind with lots of easily accessible paths is for your safety. Don't wander up the road bit with your toddler child running loose.

I promise to be careful, and I would be devastated if I hurt someone, but you deserve a smack in the chops for teaching your child such dangerous habits.

God, March, that felt good. Ty.

jacks365 Fri 04-Oct-13 01:22:09

Frightrider sorry but if you are reversing pedestrians have priority, you need to wait for them
But op yanbu if nothing else it's common sense.

DameDeepRedBetty Fri 04-Oct-13 01:28:26

Hi Teenage Boy.

If you insist on stepping onto the road from behind a tree, wearing your hoodie right down to your chin, and texting or farting about on your phone that's linked to your headphones somewhere under aforementioned hood, please do not be surprised when I perform an emergency stop six inches from you and hoot my horn like a mad person.

phantomhairpuller Fri 04-Oct-13 03:25:34

A friend of dh's hit and seriously injured a woman yesterday. She was on the phone, stepped out from behind a parked van and straight into his path. Didn't even look by sounds of it.

He's probably never going to get over that, whatever the outcome for the injured woman.

Fakebook Fri 04-Oct-13 03:34:54

Also stop crossing the bloody road diagonally towards me as I'm driving towards you and when I'm reversing don't look at me via my mirrors with a look of entitlement and carry on walking like I'm committing the biggest crime of the century.

CrohnicallyLurking Fri 04-Oct-13 07:03:55

While we're at it, if a van driver approaching a roundabout has stopped before the crossing even though the lights are green, because there's a queue at the roundabout, do not assume that it's safe for you to walk across the crossing. The one I'm thinking of has 2 lanes, and you know, another driver might want to use the other lane. That same driver just might not be able to see you till you actually step out from behind the van into their path. The crossing has a green and red man for a reason. If it's red, you shouldn't be crossing.

justmatureenough2bdad Fri 04-Oct-13 08:43:06

from one motorist to another... there is a little stick conveniently located next to the steering wheel that you can move with just the slightest touch...this magical little wand can cleverly let other motorists (and pedestrians i guess) what your intentions are when coming to junctions/roundabouts etc...
although empirical evidence would suggest otherwise, i'm 70% certain that big new bmws, audis et al come with the wonderful directional advance warning thingummyjigs....please consult you manual to get detailed instructions on location and use.

many thanks

Bodicea Fri 04-Oct-13 08:54:56

A little, wave, nod or smile when I stop for you at a zebra crossing would be appreciated. Seriously where are your manners. I have stopped my car just for you. At least acknowledge my existence!

Trills Fri 04-Oct-13 08:58:26

I can see that you wanted to overtake someone who was walking slower than you on the pavement, but doing that by stepping into the road with your back to the traffic is not a good idea.

No, not even if it is quiet.

You know how you live in a city that is known for having a lot of bikes?

Those bikes don't make a lot of noise.

Well, not normally.

They make a fair amount of noise when they have to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting you, after you've performed the above-mentioned manoeuvre.

Do not push your pram into the road whilst you are looking round parked cars to see if the road is clear. Move to a clearer spot or a crossing so you can see what's coming and not risk the life of your child.

OldSchoolMamma Fri 04-Oct-13 09:09:12

I'm a pedestrian (unless my dad takes me somewhere) and normally I'd defend my fellow pedestrians. That changed recently when I had to go to the dental hospital. My Dad drove past Newcastle Uni and the amount of idiots with head phones in or glued to their phones was unbelievable and people kept stepping out in front of cars! It was a very nervous experience and one woman on a bike (with headphones in, no helmet on) decided she had went the wrong way and pulled across in front of my dads car!
She then went on to give us the finger while dodging another car on the opposite side of the road.

coppertop Fri 04-Oct-13 09:09:37

Do drivers really expect pedestrians to thank them for obeying the highway code? confused

mumofthemonsters808 Fri 04-Oct-13 09:10:25

Bodicea - Glad you raised this matter because I have been doing this for years just because I'm grateful that someone has stopped and want to acknowledge this, but it does not seem to be the norm, I've never actually seen anyone else do it to be honest.

ubik Fri 04-Oct-13 09:13:46

Drivers

Please pay attention to the road, I know you are late on the school run and are looking ahead at the traffic trying to determine if you will mnage to screech to a halt at the school gates before 8.30am - but please look out for those pesky red lights, as my six year old may be crossing at the green man and in your haste to get your kids to school, you may almost run her over.

This happened last week - the driver managed to slam on the brakes and stop about an inch away from her. She then screeched off again, not a word of apology, after all she was late for school!

ubik Fri 04-Oct-13 09:16:08

" I have stopped my car just for you. At least acknowledge my existence!"

Ha ha, yeah, yeah, thanks for not mowing me down on a pedestrian crossing etc etc

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 09:16:27

Dear pedestrians, please be aware of stopping distances. My car is a big, heavy thing and I cannot make it defy the laws of physics, nor can I step back in time to react before you do stupid shit. I am doing all I can to keep myself and other road users safe, if you could just engage brain before stepping out in front of me that'd be great. Especially you kids who think it's fun to play chicken on a 50 road.

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 09:22:29

Do drivers really expect pedestrians to thank them for obeying the highway code?

Looks like it!

Wallison Fri 04-Oct-13 09:22:47

I'm with justmatureenough. Just because I am awesome, it doesn't mean that I have psychic superpowers so, drivers, when want to turn ... fucking indicate. Also, there is usually precious little time allowed for crossing when the green man comes on, and that time is eroded by one of you fuckers jumping the lights and another 'anticipating' them. If it's red, you should be staying still, not driving faster.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Fri 04-Oct-13 09:23:48

Dear cyclist

Please do not swerve off the pavement onto the road in front of my car! It would have been your own bloody fault if I'd hit you.

Wallison Fri 04-Oct-13 09:25:46

<<Do drivers really expect pedestrians to thank them for obeying the highway code?

Looks like it!>>

I actually had one twat shout 'Thank you' at me out of his window after I crossed on a zebra the other day. Cheeky entitled twat; having a car doesn't mean you own the bloody world.

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 09:30:03

I must say though, in that situation and others I will raise my hand to acknowledge them, so they know I have seen them etc.

MrsOakenshield Fri 04-Oct-13 09:30:45

agree with a lot of this but I'm not sure why pedestrians have to thank cars for obeying the highway code. If a car stopped somewhere where they don't have to to let a pedestrian cross, out of the goodness of their heart, fine, but at a pedestrian crossing? (NB the clue's in the name).

BTW I do usually indicate thanks, but if I don't there's nothing bad-mannered about it. Do you expect pedestrians to thank you for stopping at traffic lights - it's no different, you know.

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 09:34:36

I think people must think it is optional to stop so deserves thanks.

Zebra crossings. As you approach a zebra crossing

look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
allow more time for stopping on wet or icy roads
do not wave or use your horn to invite pedestrians across; this could be dangerous if another vehicle is approaching
be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing.

geekgal Fri 04-Oct-13 09:34:47

MrsOakenshield FTW! It would be like you as a driver signaling thanks to the opposing traffic when the lights go green, you just don't do it, do you?

gotthemoononastick Fri 04-Oct-13 09:36:16

Also raise my hand to acknowledge,as I am old and often invisible! Thank you costs nothing.

Heynonymouse Fri 04-Oct-13 09:37:47

Shop assistants are legally obliged to give me my change, but I still thank them for doing so. Don't you? So how hard is it to smile or raise a hand when a driver has stopped for you at a pedestrian crossing? It's simple everyday courtesy surely?

BringBackBod Fri 04-Oct-13 09:38:16

Motorists.
Please do not park your car on the pavement, completely blocking it. This forces us onto the road. As this thread has reminded us, roads are dangerous places.

geekgal Fri 04-Oct-13 09:43:01

Sometimes I do wave thanks, if I'm not in a hurry, but I don't have to, so it's not a common courtesy. I don't seem to recall there being an etiquette about it as it's the law to stop. The analogy about the traffic lights and oncoming traffic makes more sense in this instance, you're not face to face, you're a dot to some traffic, it's not the same thing.

Trills Fri 04-Oct-13 09:43:36

Some people drive like twats.
Some people cycle like twats.
Some people walk in a twattish manner.

Some people are twats, the method of transportation simply afford different kinds of opportunities to display that twattishness.

(replace twat with "inconsiderate and potentially dangerous" if you like)

MadeOfStarDust Fri 04-Oct-13 09:43:54

oh and drivers -

corners and junctions near schools are not "magic" ones where the rules of the road do not apply - you do not park ON them because it makes it UNSAFE - even for YOUR children..... drive a bit down the road and walk.... BE a pedestrian once in a while....

geekgal Fri 04-Oct-13 09:44:37

Cars on the pavement, that KILLS me!! Especially when I've got my pram and I have to shove it out into the road, makes me ragey!!!!

Trills Fri 04-Oct-13 09:44:46

Pedestrians piss me off when I am a pedestrian too.

People who rush through tube stations, cutting you up, and then don't walk up the escalators. You clearly weren't in that much of a rush, were you?

MrsWickens Fri 04-Oct-13 09:45:02

I always thank people who stop for me to cross at a pedestrian crossing. I raise my hand in thanks for drivers who have waited for me to come through when there is only room for one car because cars are parked on their side of the road (even though that is a highway code rule too).

Same as I thank the shop assistant for serving me, the waitress for bringing me my food, the barman for making my drink. I don't think they expect thanks but I'm showing my appreciation so say thank you.

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 09:45:57

Shop assistants are legally obliged to give me my change

You don't have to take lessons, learn a code of conduct and pass a test to be a sales assistant.

Drivers do yet still seem to be unaware of the actual rules.

RobinSparkles Fri 04-Oct-13 09:46:08

Dear driver,

You see me at the side of the road with tantruming toddler and shopping, trying to cross. It was nice of you to stop and let me go but please don't tut and shake your head at me for not crossing quickly enough. DD is two and can't rush across and I don't want her to trip in the road. If you don't have time to wait then don't fucking stop in the first place! I'm happy to wait, in fact I'd rather wait until the road is clear.

Aaaand breath.

In fact I really hate it when you're not at a crossing and a driver stops to let you cross on a main road. You feel obliged to cross because they've stopped but you feel like you're holding the road up while you check that there's nothing on the other side!

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 09:47:09

shop assistants and waiters are serving you, road users aren't

nickelbabe Fri 04-Oct-13 09:47:25

because of the above things and more

it's the driver's obligation to stop when there is a pedestrian.
the only difference between pelican/toucan crossings and zebra crossings is the green man and the red light for vehicles.

you treat a zebra crossing in the same way as a pelican/toucan crossing except you don't press a button.

yes, it would be nice for drivers to get a wave of thanks, but it's not obligatory so stop being selfish and just carry on driving.
the world does not owe you a favour just because you didn't break the law (the Highway Code is LAW)

BadSeedsAddict Fri 04-Oct-13 09:47:31

Dear cyclists,

When going round a corner on a steep hill, could you please refrain from riding two or even three abreast as I can't actually see that you are there until I am right behind you. Also, could you please use signals when going around a parked car very slowly up another steep hill, as I have no bloody idea that you are going to randomly continue across the road to the right, and go onto the pavement.

Cheers now.

Trills my SIL is one of 'those' people, she notched it up a level though by sticking her elbows out whilst she shoves past.

Dear motorist,

I can see that my behaviour as a pedestrian or cyclists has irritated you. Good. I hope it ruined your day. Now go away and learn some tolerance for other road users; you might find that your temper will improve, and you might also find yourself less likely to cause an accident while tantrumming.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 04-Oct-13 09:51:20

Dear pedestrians strolling along in the middle of the road in the Regent Street/Piccadilly/Haymarket part of central London where I was last Thursday evening. It's the congestion charge zone. It's not pedestrianised!

FunnyRunner Fri 04-Oct-13 09:51:36

I always wave and acknowledge - which is why I get the rage when other people don't grin Ditto when I let some fucker in at the lane merge and they don't acknowledge. Ignorant tools. And don't get me started on non-indicators.

Driving puts my BP up above all things blush

CatAmongThePigeons Fri 04-Oct-13 09:53:57

To all humans, those vehicles with blue lights and sirens flashing are not there for you to play chicken. The amount of numpties either on foot or in vehicles who do not know this is boggling.

Also drivers pull over to the LEFT and STOP when it is safe to do so and away from junctions and crossings.

I regularly get my ear chewed about these things and it's nothing to do with me.

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 09:54:05

Dear motorists, oh enlightened and superior ones,

When I am crossing the road that you have turned into, I have right of way, please do not attempt to run me over.

TIA.

CatAmongThePigeons Fri 04-Oct-13 09:54:51

Oooh indicators are quite useful, if I can't see it as a pedestrian I don't know you're turning! [rage]

MadeOfStarDust Fri 04-Oct-13 09:55:39

p.s. the Highway Code is not LAW - there is a clue in the name......

Tiredmumno1 Fri 04-Oct-13 10:00:07

I am a pedestrian that actually gets annoyed with other pedestrians grin I always stop and move out of the way so people can get past, I barely ever get a thanks.

I never push my buggy in the road, I step out first to have a look.

I always thank drivers for stopping at zebra crossings, and if drivers stop and let me across when not at a crossing.

All I ask in return, as someone else has already mentioned, the parking on the pavements is really annoying, especially if I can't get the buggy down. It's dangerous and winds me right up, pavements are for pedestrians smile

Oh yes and please use your indicators smile

comingalongnicely Fri 04-Oct-13 10:01:34

I always wave "thanks" when someone stops at a Zebra Crossing.

I hate the people that cross the road and head straight towards your side with the aim of slipping behind you as you pass.

Once (years ago) I braked so the bloke walked into the side of my motorbike - kept me chuckling for miles!

nickelbabe Fri 04-Oct-13 10:05:58

MadeofStardust
the Highway Code is Law.
it's not just a "ooh, we'd really like it if you do this"

when it says "you must do..." in the rules, that's law.
Where it says "you should..." that means you really would be best to, unless it's unavoidable (not because you choose not to)

Tiredmumno1 Fri 04-Oct-13 10:06:02

hmm That's not actually funny comingalong, what difference does it make to you whether they cross behind you just as you pass, as long as they don't touch your vehicle, then it's not inconveniencing you.

Can't believe you thought it was funny to try and intentionally hurt someone on purpose by slamming your brakes on. Real nice.

Weeantwee Fri 04-Oct-13 10:07:28

I know my Highway Code and I know my rights as a pedestrian. I will not give way to a car that decides to turn into the junction I'm already crossing without indicating and turn in to it on the wrong side of the road therefore meeting my legs with his bumper.

You didn't indicate.
You could see I was already half way across the road and therefore had right of way.
You were on the wrong side of the road.

He shouted at me that as he was the car he was in the right!

nickelbabe Fri 04-Oct-13 10:08:02

the highway code

please note:
Many of the rules in The Highway Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. See an explanation of the abbreviations.

Although failure to comply with the other rules of The Highway Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 10:09:58

The Highway Code really is law, can't believe anyone would think it isn't!

Fakebook Fri 04-Oct-13 10:11:36

As a pedestrian when I'm walking my dd to school:

Dear cyclist with your bright yellow jacket on so you can be seen clearly: do you realise the red lights at the zebra crossing mean that YOU HAVE TO STOP TOO? Don't zoom past the back of my fucking heels when the lights are still red you idiot. My baby could throw his cloth or toy onto the road at any time and potentially cause you to crash and hurt me too. Fucking idiot.

I've lost count of how many times this has happened at the same lights almost everyday.

Heynonymouse Fri 04-Oct-13 10:13:32

But the drivers who do stop at pedestrian crossings clearly are aware of the rules - because they're obeying them!

As for 'a dot to some traffic', the driver and pedestrian at a crossing are within a few feet of each other - they're highly likely to be able to clearly see each other's faces.

Of course the pedestrian isn't obliged to say thank you, but I do find it deeply dispiriting that so many posters find it risible that one person should pleasantly acknowledge an interaction with another for no other reason than that it's a courteous thing to do.

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 10:17:12

So hey, when you're on a roundabout, and all the cars have stopped cos you've got right of way as you're already on roundabout, do you wave at them?

Do you wave at people waiting when traffic lights are in your favour?

Wallison Fri 04-Oct-13 10:17:33

I find that a quick tug of my forelock, perhaps a small genuflection and if I'm feeling generous the promise to hand over my first-born generally does the trick when I need to show my undying gratitude to the ever-bountiful and glorious drivers who obey the Highway Code wrt zebra crossings.

Sindarella Fri 04-Oct-13 10:18:26

I say thank you to the cashier when they give me my change, even though they have to.
I say thank you to the bus driver when i get off, even though thats their job.

Its just manners isn't it.

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 10:24:26

I prostrate myself on the opposing pavement in humble gratitude and admiration that the mighty motorist has permitted my safe passage across the zebra crossing.

MrsOakenshield Fri 04-Oct-13 10:24:38

I'm not saying that to indicate thanks as a courtesy isn't a good thing (99% of the time I give them a wave, and I tell DD that's what we do too - I think the only time I don't is if I haven't a free hand but even then I attempt a nod), it's that the poster seemed to think that she should be thanked because she was doing them a favour, rather than obeying the highway code and the law by stopping for them.

Wallison Fri 04-Oct-13 10:26:36

grin PatPig

nickelbabe Fri 04-Oct-13 10:26:58

Tiredmummo - she didn't brake in order to injure the pedstrian, she braked, full stop, with the result that the pedestrian who wasn't being careful walked into her bike.
this is exactly the reason why she made the post, to point out that walking in such a manner is dangerous, because the vehicle might have to brake or react to an unforeseen problem. that's why you have to wait until it's safe to cross

BadSeedsAddict Fri 04-Oct-13 10:28:22

Dear ToadintheHole,

Feel free to continue putting yourself in danger. I'm sure the emotional trauma I suffer will be nothing in comparison to the physical trauma inflicted upon you by this bloody big chunk of metal you insist on throwing yourself in front of. Take satisfaction in knowing that at least one person's normal life will be impaired, to whatever extent, by your actions.

Cheers now.

MadeOfStarDust Fri 04-Oct-13 10:31:16

I quote the poster above (and the highway code itself)

Many of the rules in The Highway Code are legal requirements

only the ones with MUST

rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’. are not in themselves a LEGAL requirement - and there are MANY, MANY more of them than the "must" - they may be quoted in court, but s they are NOT law.....

There was a very disturbing program on TV a while back about the "lawyer to the rich" who can get people off on the technicalities of the highway code who explained very well indeed that things like parking within 10m of a junction/on a corner/brow of a hill are not per-se illegal, but are advisory and he will fight to prove a lack of safety issue in each and every ticketed case.....

BadSeedsAddict Fri 04-Oct-13 10:33:19

Having been a pedestrian for so long before becoming a motorist I always always indicate! And stop for pedestrians already crossing the road I'm turning into. And smile at people on crossings (and teach my kids to smile and wave at motorists allowing them across). Because it's nice to be nice, don't you know grin

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 10:33:43

On my test I was trying to reverse round a corner. It was school home time and loads of people kept walking behind my car.

The examiner asked why I kept stopping and I said I was giving priority to the pedestrians.

He said 'Yes, but we haven't got all day. Just carry on, they'll get out of the way.'

I don't know where we'd both have stood if I'd have hit anyone, but he was right. They did get out of the way.

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 10:46:22

Oh another one, from two sides.

Dear pedestrian in a car park, please do not act so surprised to see a car driving around said car park, it's kind of what happens in car parks. The cars somehow need to get from the outside to the car spaces and back again.

Dear car driver in car park, please do not act so surprised to see a pedestrian in said car park, I'm pretty certain that even you intend to get out of your car after parking it, why is it so hard to understand others might too?

FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 10:55:27

pedestrians do not have the right of way when i'm reversing off a main road into a business driveway or junction. Their pavement stops and i am still on the road.

i wasnt talking about people walking behind my car in the carpark.. although in those instances it would be nice if people didnt walk behind my car while i'm in the middle of reversing already.. if they can see my car is in motion then walking behind it is fucking stupid.

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:05:57

When woudl you reverse off a main road? Genuine question, only just passed my test & curious!

IAmMiranda Fri 04-Oct-13 11:08:28

Dear Pedestrian. I can guarantee that my car will do more damage to you than you will do to my car. Even if legally you have right of way - do not take this for granted. Look and pay attention to what you are doing. No matter who is in the "right" I assure you that you will come off worse vs a car. Have some sense.

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 11:13:08

Dear Pedestrian. I can guarantee that my car will do more damage to you than you will do to my car. Even if legally you have right of way - do not take this for granted. Look and pay attention to what you are doing. No matter who is in the "right" I assure you that you will come off worse vs a car. Have some sense

That is true, but it is also the reason why so many drivers take the piss. Because they can.

IAmMiranda Fri 04-Oct-13 11:14:18

Dear cyclist.
If you want to be treated respectfully whilst cycling on a road with cars then obey traffic law - Either act like a pedestrian or act like a car, you can't have it both ways.

IAmMiranda Fri 04-Oct-13 11:15:56

That is true, but it is also the reason why so many drivers take the piss. Because they can. I'm not denying that drivers can be arses too, but pedestrians are the more vulnerable. The amount of times I see them launch themselves across a zebra crossing, for example, without looking because - hey! They've got right of way. Its ridiculous.

jacks365 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:19:31

Fright it does not matter where you are. It does not matter if a pedestrian is stepping off a pavement a reversing vehicle always has to give way. It is a manoeuvre not driving down the road and you always give way when doing any manoeuvre.

I think iammiranda sums up some drivers attitudes to pedestrians mind you I've heard the same from drivers of bigger vehicles to small car drivers.

AmberLeaf Fri 04-Oct-13 11:23:26

Yeah how ridiculous that pedestrians expect car users to follow the highway code.

pokesandprodsforthelasttime Fri 04-Oct-13 11:25:22

Cyclists - it's really daft to jump red lights at a crossroad.

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:33:48

gosh yes a pedestrian thread that starts bashing cyclists - at every opportunity they need to be bashed and then bashed some more regardless.

Possibly some people don't know the difference between pedestrians and cyclists

Pedestrians generally walk or are possibly pushed around and cyclists are on bikes.

HSMMaCM Fri 04-Oct-13 11:40:18

I always thank drivers at crossings. I have taught my children to do it too. Just manners I suppose. I have also already made a point of making eye contact to be sure the driver has seen me before crossing.

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 11:40:25

it's pretty much inevitable that it will happen somewhere in such a thread.

Don't usually have to wait so long though.

Quangle Fri 04-Oct-13 11:45:34

We are all pedestrians. Pedestrians are not a different tribe to car owners.

I drive and I do see people do daft things - when walking, driving and cycling. I particularly recognise the irritation with pedestrians who nip behind my reversing car (and no, you can't see them before you creep back because they are on the pavement until the second that they leap into the road! But by the same token, they don't see you at the wheel - they think you are just a parked car and they don't know that you are about to reverse).

Just don't make it a war between pedestrians and drivers. And as a general rule of society, the more vulnerable take precedence over the protected so the flesh and blood people who move at 4mph should be shown a bit of patience by the people in the metal boxes who move at 30mnph.

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:46:33

patpig it seems cyclists are the mode of transport to be despised by motorist and pedestrians, it is what bonds them together to be vile and derogatory about.

Motorsist jump lights and I have seen plenty of jay walking, I just drove home and had a woman walk straight out in front of me and an old man driving towards me on the wrong side of the road. But of course some how it will be the invisible cyclists fault wink

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 11:49:27

Motorists jump lights and kill quite a few people doing so.

It doesn't make them public hate figures though for some reason. confused

LuisSuarezTeeth Fri 04-Oct-13 11:50:21

I can't believe how many people will walk behind a reversing car already in motion. Of course you wait if someone is there, but deliberately doing it when as a driver you are trying to look in several directions is just stupid. Even if you have right of way, it won't stop you getting clobbered if I can't see you!

And what is it about school kids that makes them think they are immortal?

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:51:44

Gosh if you want to murder someone just do it with a car - you will get 300 hours community service and a ban from driving a car for 5 years.

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 11:52:20

MIL is always stepping out behind cars that are already reversing, she's just totally unaware of anything around her. So many times either me or DH have had to drag her out of harm's way.

And yet she still doesn't get why I wont let DS walk with her around roads/cars.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 11:59:26

I'm with bees -
As a driver and as a pedestrian and as a cyclist we all do stupid things ...
lets all take a deep breath and give some people the benefit of the doubt...I think I must be in a smile and the world smiles with you mood today grin
The person that doesn't smile/thank you at a zebra crossing - might just be having a really terrible day ....tomorrow they might smile!...
the inconsiderate driver might just have messed up - and be kicking themselves for being an idiot...
the person who didn't indicate may just have forgotten ... distracted looking at road signs etc...
Driving for 20+ years, never had an accident, try to be considerate - I will stop even if I have right of way if it makes the traffic flow better if that makes sense -
However I will confess ...
I have gone through a red light (thankfully nothing was coming) - my brain for some reason decided in that split second red means go!!! - my dad has done the same - so I know I'm not the only one..
I also once (after driving in the country with no lights for a while) gave way at traffic lights so very considerately went through a red light...
I have not seem someone on a zebra and had to an emergency stop...
I misjudge timing sometimes - I have not stopped for someone with right of way ...just got it wrong ...usually I will then shake my head and tut at myself and hold my hand up - (only I recently realised that may look like I am shaking my head at the other driver who has done nothing wrong blush)
I have stepped out in front of a car (as an adult) - just didn't see it - and I did look twice -luckily I looked three times and could jump back just in time...
I have wobbled out on my bike in front of a car ...still getting used to bike riding again after ages and lost control...(must have freaked the car overtaking me out though)
I parked really closed to another car the other day - I was late, I knew I was going to be two minutes and had to get DD2 out of the other side, spaces aren't that big, I was probably over the white line because the car on the other side of me was too....
(this did actually piss me off a little - as the other driver and his passenger arrived back at their car the same time as me ...I raced up saying really sorry etc - and dived in through the passenger side to get out of the way asap - other driver's passenger didn't acknowledge me - just gave me the evil eye...)
(I will say I have had stupoid things done to me too - and not always felt generous about it ...but thinking I'm going to try ...(for today at least)

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 12:04:19
unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 12:04:37

BTW I think pedestrians should give way to drivers who are reversing ...and that's what we should teach children...
Because that will stop them thinking they can walk out in front of a reversing car ....and being small just not being seen....

Quangle Fri 04-Oct-13 12:05:40

agree unlucky. Excellent post. I'm an ok driver (no accidents in thirty years almost of driving - touch wood) but I'm mainly ok because I'm aware of my limitations. I'm not brilliant and multi-aware at all times. So I try to drive slowly and defensively to compensate for my shortcomings.

Likewise as a pedestrian I'm sometimes distracted - because I'm human. All I can hope is that drivers are making allowances for my humanity. But some of the posts on here suggest that they do not.

As for bemoaning the behaviour of school children around roads - they simply do not have the road skill, experience or neural pathways laid down to make sensible choices all the time. That's why we, as drivers, have to compensate for them. I hope someone will take account of my DCs inexperience on the road when they start walking themselves to school in a few years.

yes unlucky my children now know to watch out particularly for white lights on the back of the car means the vehicle is reversing.

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 12:09:39

unlucky: it's a good idea to get out of the way of motor vehicles in general, because they are big and hard and heavy and you are small and squashy.

But reversing motorists don't have right of way over pedestrians. Not at all.

chrome100 Fri 04-Oct-13 12:10:50

I hate the fact that when, as a pedestrian, I cross a side street and am half way across, a car comes, tries to turn into the road and beeps at me! Clearly I started crossing the road before they appeared and have right of way (I checked the highway code). People have fuck all patience.

LuisSuarezTeeth Fri 04-Oct-13 12:17:41

It's not really about right of way with reversing though - more using common sense and being safe.

3asAbird Fri 04-Oct-13 12:21:47

Most cars here think zebra crossings are optional stop I approach with caution.

Few weeks ago my 4 year old was clipped by speeding driver at school crossing at school pickup time.There was bin lorry stopped further up rd so dident cross as could not see so pretty clear driver couldent see. we stepped out onto our side of rd literally just off pavement when speeding woman goes past bin lorry then veers wrong side of rd very close to us. I pulled daughter back she dropped her scooter in rd lady came screeching half least 2cars distance away.She wouldent have been able to stop scares me now she was late and was rushing dident see us or think to slow down. some try and drive around a lollypop man for god sake.

my biggest pet hate is so many cars and vans park close to junctions making dangerous to cross or parking on pavements making me veer into rd.Many of them have perfectly good driveways.
They don't care about splashing you. They rarly like to wait.

I reserve some annoyance for cyclists who think they own the entire cycle path and don't look where they going.

I think the pedestrian in uk has rough time personally.

being a good driver is about being prepared.

expecting lights may change
that someone might cross.
being careful around schools/residential areas.
considerate legal parking.
yes when reversing pedestrian has right of way.

chemenger Fri 04-Oct-13 12:24:31

I actually teach the theories of human error (at a very basic level) and it is a fact, an absolute fact, that we all make mistakes and slips, even in the simplest of tasks. Anyone who says they have never made an error when driving, cycling or walking is lying. Some of those slips and mistakes will cause hazardous situations, many of which only be prevented from escalating to accidents by the actions of others. Why not give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they largely don't deliberately do the wrong thing? Drive in such a way that your driving can accommodate other people's errors.

Having said this we all have a responsibility to reduce our error rate by avoiding distraction (phones, eating, fiddling with radios and sat navs etc).

Some things, however, not using indicators being my pet hate, are unforgivable and we should be allowed to shoot on sight (when safe to do so). These are technically violations rather than mistakes and are a result of a decision to disobey a known rule.

Quangle Fri 04-Oct-13 12:38:22

I teach my children to make way for cars because "they won't make way for you" and they don't. They are six and three and cars will routinely turn into roads that we are crossing because they are bigger and badder than us. It's a shame - but yes I teach them defensive walking.

"Do drivers really expect pedestrians to thank them for obeying the highway code?"

I am of the opinion that gratitude, even when not technically necessary, makes the world a better place - it makes the person whom you are thanking feel appreciated and noticed.

Thanking someone for doing something - even when they legally had to do it - takes almost no time or effort, and spreads a little bit of good feeling - I genuinely can't see what is wrong with saying that is a good thing, and people should thank other people.

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 12:42:37

I agree that gratitude, smiling and waving are all wonderful, but SDTG if you're at lights, and they are in your favour, do you wave and say thank you to the cars that are stopped?

WMittens Fri 04-Oct-13 12:50:39

i'm 70% certain that big new bmws, audis et al come with the wonderful directional advance warning thingummyjigs

Optional extras on BMWs - they come as part of the 'Visibility Package'.

If I am a pedestrian, crossing at the green man, then yes, I generally do at least smile at the drivers who have stopped. It costs me nothing, does no harm and may make someone a little bit happier - if only because they are judging me as a madwoman for thanking them.

Surely a few extra, technically unnecessary, thank-yous are better than not enough?

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:02:09

I do that too, SDTG, i meant if you're in a car, do you thank the other cars who are waiting because their lights are red?

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:03:20

patpig hmm I don't really care who has right of way ...drivers just can't see behind them very well - especially not a child smaller than the height of the back of a car, not visible in any of the mirrors...
Common sense tells me to not walk behind a reversing vehicle - and to teach my children not to do so...adults have been killed by reversing lorries/buses etc for similar reasons ...
I would rather be alive and well than know I was in the right...grin
Actually an old lady reversed out in front of me (actually reversed round into me) the other day - forced an emergency stop....didn't edge out - just came straight out - from behind parked cars as well - don't think even realised what she's done after she'd done it... I was behind her until she stopped at the local post office (she came out of some sheltered housing flats)...after my initial shock - she shouldn't still be driving!!! I thought well - if that is only way she can get out and about - and she is literally only going a hundred yards or so at less than 20 mph ...maybe it isn't so bad???

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:08:34

Yeah, it is so bad unlucky - my friend at school was mown down by an old lady on a crossing, hadn't even noticed the crossing let alone that lights were red or my friend was halfway across. She is now living in sheltered housing, and is seriously brain damaged.

People don't realise how bloody dangerous their cars are.

sashh Fri 04-Oct-13 13:13:09

Oi pensioners, if you are just stopping for a chat please don't do it at the edge of a zebra crossing, I don't know you don't want to cross.

And while we are at it.

Small boy, cars, vans and much bigger vehicles drive on the left. If you are not old enough to get onto the pavement or out from in front of my car you are not old enough to be riding on the road. I couldn't go round you without bumping into said van coming the other way and sitting on your bike with the wheels at 90 degrees tot he pavement doesn't change that.

In that specific situation, no, I don't, Pootles. You have successfully picked a hole in my story. I don't thank everyone around me for everything I do, but I do thank people sometimes when it is not necessary. And now I am feeling under attack for thinking it is a good idea to spread a few extra thanks around whilst either driving or walking.

gordyslovesheep Fri 04-Oct-13 13:18:07

people be aware of each other

cumfy Fri 04-Oct-13 13:19:28

Dear Miranda,

I was considering popping over to Switzerland next month

But your posts suggest maybe I could save a few quid.wink

We well, you, could say it was a complete accident.
Does £20 sound about right ?

Warmest Regard etc

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:21:17

Oh sorry i really didn't mean to blush. Just wondering about it all! I'm the same, I say thank you when people wait for me as a pedestrian, but not in a car (unless they had right of way, obv!) so not having a go, at all!

But it surely means that we all think you're doing a pedestrian a favour by stopping, which you aren't...

Maybe its because a lot of drivers don't stop at a zebra, wheras they nearly always do at a red light? Aware I'm blathering now...

FreyaFridays Fri 04-Oct-13 13:25:25

Gah, there are twats in all forms of transportation.

I do always thank drivers who stop at zebra crossings, just out of politeness, I wouldn't think twice about considering whether the driver "deserves" to be thanked or not.

Drivers who park on pavements blocking the pathway can fuck off to the back end of fuckoffness in my opinion. It is seriously one of the most ignorant things to do. My partner was shocked at the bollocking he got the first time he parked like that with me in the car. It's unbelievably arrogant. What do you exect ill, disabled, elderly people, or people pushing prams or wheelchairs to do?? If you can't park properly, find somewhere you can park properly and walk a bit, you lazy morons. Argh, I have a lot of rage for this issue...

I've just passed my driving test myself last week. I have to say, the thing that impeded my practise most was people who don't indicate, especially at roundabouts. How can you have the arrogance to expect everybody to just predict whether you're going straight on or left when you're sat in the left hand lane? Equally, it fucked me off when people didn't indicate OFF the roundabout as well, so that you can see properly who is leaving it, and who is continuing round. That's still an important part of the roundabout, people...

LuisSuarezTeeth Fri 04-Oct-13 13:27:44

As a pedestrian at a zebra crossing, I smile and raise my hand to drivers. This is because I am polite, but also they smile back. So they associate stopping with something positive and are therefore more likely to keep doing it.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:32:11

pootles2010 - sorry for your friend...thanks
I know what you mean and did think about having a word with her - or the warden or even the police...
It is a small, quiet place - difficult without describing the roads in detail etc but if all she uses it for is going into the village it is pretty safe...no crossing etc...and I'm not sure she got into second gear...
I hope you don't take this the wrong way ...I'm really not saying your friend was at fault at all here ... it was the drivers mistake...
I try to teach my children to expect fallible drivers - not to cross at crossing even with the green man until they know the cars have seen them and stopped - and that is mainly because of MY experience of thinking red means go...

I don't think that thanking someone implies they have done you a favour, necessarily. For example, when I am served in a shop, I thank the till operator, and you could argue that is not necessary as they are being paid to serve me at the till - but it just makes life nicer for all concerned.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 13:35:48

(and I did that in my late 20s/early30s, experienced driver, sober, not tired, not playing with the radio etc -just a mental blip..).

I can beat the parking on the pavement. They actually DRIVE on the pavement near our school. I know sometimes the width of the road means mounting the pavement is unavoidable, but at 30 miles an hour?! If I can get someone to collect the kids for me I may video the culprits and pass it to our PCSO....

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 13:42:18

As a pedestrian I thank drivers at zebra crossings, not because I think I should, but because I'm grateful to have come across one who doesn't think their need to drive trumps my right to cross. Too many rivers go straight over the crossing without stopping.

ubik Fri 04-Oct-13 13:42:52

Also yellow box junctions are there fir a reason. I do not want to squeeze past your 4x4 with my 3 young children whir crossing on the green man because you have decided to sneak through the lights and stop on the junction.

But I'll apologise in advance if the buggy, scooter or bike we are using accidentky scratches your psi work as we struggle past.

FreyaFridays Fri 04-Oct-13 13:46:37

God, driving on the pavement at 30, that really is shocking behaviour. I work in a school, and the ridiculous behaviour of drivers at drop-off and pick-up is always both hilarious and horrifying to me. Why not just leave the house a few minutes earlier to save yourself the bother of risking someone else's life to drop your kids off in time??

It is scary as a pedestrian when you're walking on the pavement, and somebody mounts the pavement, even at 10, behind you, then drives along the pavement for a bit until stopping to park. Always scares the hell out of me, and I usually break into a run to move out of their way. I don't know they are parking; to me, drivers are totally unpredictable in these situations.

DiamondMask Fri 04-Oct-13 13:47:26

'I find that a quick tug of my forelock, perhaps a small genuflection and if I'm feeling generous the promise to hand over my first-born generally does the trick when I need to show my undying gratitude to the ever-bountiful and glorious drivers who obey the Highway Code wrt zebra crossings.'

Wallison grin I spat tea all over the kb at that.
I have had people shout at me 'say thankyou!'. Usually I do wave but sometimes I have a hand full of child/phone/shopping.
In future I shall stop and bow down and prostrate for 5 minutes. 5 looooooooooooooong minutes. wink
When I drive I dont give a monkey's fart if people acknowledge that I've stopped at a zebra crossing. It's the law and my duty to do so. So I do. I'm not doing anyone a favour. I'm obeying a law. I dont care if I'm thanked.

However, while we are bitching, why dont BMW's come with indicators anymore, I'm not telepathic, I dont know where they are fucking going at roundabouts whether I'm a driver or pedestrian. I want a disintigrator laser attatchment to zap those fuckers.

ClockWatchingLady Fri 04-Oct-13 13:54:11

I also think it's nice to wave, smile, thank people for considerate walking, driving, cycling, whatever.

HOWEVER, to the drivers (on this forum and elsewhere) getting arsey about not being thanked for obeying the law at zebra crossings, I can only hope that you make sure you thank each and every one of the pedestrians who wait for you to drive by before stepping out into the road.

mewmeow Fri 04-Oct-13 13:58:48

Grr drivers. confused
Always in a such a damn rush! What's the fuss about waiting 2 minutes so pedestrians (who have also probably been waiting a while) can cross. We have to leave earlier for work & school pick up, carry tired children and shopping, get cold and wet when it rains, often wait for ages to cross on busy roads, risk life and limb in places where no adequate crossing has been provided- (and finding one would add ages onto sometimes already long journeys), and still cars act like they have superiority and right of way. Sorry we can't afford a car, and don't want to add to the multitude of environmental and social issues caused by the prevalence of cars in societyhmm.
Most of the time I completely respected your right to drive, but draw the bloody line at actually having to acknowledge/ thank someone stopping at a zebra crossing and obeying the law shockshock, or taking the blame for cars not slowing the fuck down to allow for the inconvenience of us pesky pedestrians.

PatPig Fri 04-Oct-13 14:01:08

You can thank a driver for stopping at a zebra crossing if you want.

But you are a Grade A arsehole if you as a driver get upset if people don't.

nomorecrumbs Fri 04-Oct-13 14:10:50

I used to live on a busy residential street in London that ended in a junction leading onto the High Street.

It was a NIGHTMARE trying to drive into, or out from, the residential street. Pedestrians would constantly just wander across the residential road without even checking to see if a car was turning into or out from the road.

I hit (very gently) a old man of about 70 or so when he stepped in front of my car as I was indicating and turning left out of the residential road. WTF? Why would you be so lazy as to walk in front of a turning car rather than take 3 extra steps to walk behind it in safety?

The old man was fine btw, just stupid.

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:13:55

sadly *PatPig* I wasn't sad

This case has had a lot of support from the appropriate clubs but to no avail.

nomorecrumbs Fri 04-Oct-13 14:16:46

ClockWatchingLady, the road is for drivers, not pedestrians. Therefore drivers have priority. Pedestrians should thank drivers for giving way on the road, not the other way round.

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:20:12

nomorecrumbs - that sort of attitude is why the roads are so dangerous.

noone has priority over another road user

Quangle Fri 04-Oct-13 14:20:41

Stupid old men. How dare they angry

BTW the idea that the road is for drivers is part of the problem. Roads cut across pedestrian space - that doesn't mean drivers automatically get right of way when turning from one road onto another.

mewmeow Fri 04-Oct-13 14:21:28

Nomorecrumbs- driver calling a (70 year old) pedestrian lazy, that's rich..

And fyi pedestrians have right of way on a zebra crossing, which is on the road.

nomorecrumbs Fri 04-Oct-13 14:26:56

He was lazy. He should have gone around the back of my car instead of cutting across a turning, indicating car pulling out of a junction.

Some pedestrians, not all, have no basic road safety sense.

Pootles2010 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:28:41

I think mew's point was that a driver is inherently more lazy than a driver, by merit of using their own two feet.

nomorecrumbs Fri 04-Oct-13 14:30:22

That doesn't mean though that drivers should give way to pedestrians automatically by virtue of them being "less lazy" when it's not a marked crossing.

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 14:37:18

It's nothing to do with having to thank people for obeying the law, but more that life is a lot more pleasant if you acknowledge your fellow human beings.

I hardly drive at all now but I used to regularly drive through Grosvenor Square in London. It was weird. If the crossings were empty, fine. But if one person crossed it was like some invisible film director had shouted: 'Action!' People seemed to come from nowhere.

I wouldn't have dreamed of barging through, but it was nice when someone who ran up to the crossing when, if they'd continued walking it would have cleared, and I could have gone, waved at me and mouthed: 'Thanks.'

Like I said, I'm more often the person walking over the crossing than driving over it these days. It doesn't hurt me to flip my hand vaguely in the direction of the driver.

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 14:42:14

Actually, I avoid running up to crossings if some poor sod has been patiently waiting for a crocodile of people to cross. I just let him or her go and cross in front of the next person, making sure they've seen me, of course.

Some people don't pay attention whether they're walking or driving and I'd rather not get run over even when it is my right of way.

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:42:24

I could go to any town in the country and find cars parked on the pavement sometimes blocking the way for pedestrians and worse buggies or wheel chairs.

I walk to work and there is a chap in a wheel chair that has to use the road to get his son to school as there are cars parked in his way so he can't use the pavement. This would be for quarter of a mile stretch, oh and sometimes he gets tooted at by other drivers in their cars - when it doesn't take half a brain to work out why he is wheeling along the road

it is inconsiderate and selfish

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 14:45:07

life is a lot more pleasant if you acknowledge your fellow human beings

VW bettle drivers used to do this as they waved to each other, so do camper vans and motorhomes - they wave to each other, cyclists say good morning or good afternoon or nod a head if peddling up hill and out of breath.

Quangle Fri 04-Oct-13 14:47:58

I drive through those crossings on Grosvenor Square too limited. They are weird. I think the Embassy send out spooks to practise going incognito as "normal people crossing a road" grin

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 14:51:01

There's a girl of about 12 who hares past the front of my house on the pavement on her scooter (scoot-along not Vespa) at about 8.50am every morning on her way to school.

I could set my clock by her, which is ironic, seeing as she's obviously a rubbish time-keeper herself.

She's a fucking menace and I guess she's the sort of idiot with a death wish who crosses in front of cars, behind reversing dustcarts, over level crossings when the barriers have gone down...

spatchcock Fri 04-Oct-13 14:51:08

"When I drive I dont give a monkey's fart if people acknowledge that I've stopped at a zebra crossing. It's the law and my duty to do so. So I do. I'm not doing anyone a favour. I'm obeying a law. I dont care if I'm thanked."

This. Cannot imagine getting cross about someone not thanking me for obeying the road code! Imagine the accidents in a world where we were all smiling and waving at each other from the driver's seat. Thanks for giving way as I am coming towards you and turning right as specified in section 5.6a of the Highway Code! Thanks for stopping at that junction!

Re: drivers driving on the pavement - a driver once tried to do this in front of me, whilst I was walking the children home from school. He was a bit shocked when I didn't move out of his way, but instead slapped my hands down on his bonnet and glared at him until he reversed back onto the road!

Wallison - there were plenty of times I'd have handed one of my dses over to someone without them having to stop at a pedestrian crossing for me! grin

But seriously, I don't see it as me, or any other driver, deserving thanks for obeying the law! more that it is nice to thank people! and spread a bit of positivity in the world. But I wouldn't dream of getting arsey if someone doesn't thank me for stopping at a zebra crossing. I do get a bit arsey if I hold a door open for someone, or stand back to let them through, and get completely ignored. I do the passive-aggressive thing of saying "You're welcome" to their retreating backs.

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 14:59:18

ivykaty DH comes from proper countryside in Somerset.

Whenever we visit MIL, as a suburbanite transplant to London, it took me quite a while to get used to people saying a cheery hello when they pass me on walks. It still unsettles me grin

quangle I think you're right. It sounds exactly like something the CIA would do on their way to unleash a phial of anthrax in the subways under Park Lane.

Gerbilectomy Fri 04-Oct-13 15:01:39

the road is for drivers, not pedestrians

Haha! Yeah, bloody pedestrians, eh? Getting themselves run over and killed, left right and centre. Even on the pavements! Idiots!

yoshipoppet Fri 04-Oct-13 15:04:39

I do usually wave a thank you to anyone who stops for me at a zebra crossing. It takes no time, costs no money and might just cheer someone up - what's not to like about that?
But then I live in Devon and people are very friendly here, even to strangers.

Gerbilectomy Fri 04-Oct-13 15:05:38

There is crisis of poor driver education in this country. There is a crisis of arrogance, entitlement, impatience, carelessness and sheer bad manners.

Threads like this depress the fuck out of me.

Driving a car is a responsibility - not a right. Your licence can (and should) be taken away from you if you drive badly and you can boo-hoo all you want about the mean pedestrians and cyclists getting in your way but it doesn't change the fact that the onus is on drivers to behave responsibly because cars are so bloody dangerous - which is why they are taxed and you are licensed.

Too many people treat driving too casually.

nomorecrumbs Fri 04-Oct-13 15:09:12

But it is, Gerbilectomy. That's why pedestrians have pavements and designated places where they have priority to cross.

There's also far too much sanctimony on the part of some pedestrians on this thread. Pedestrians must also take responsibility and be aware that they can't just cross the road willy-nilly without taking the proper safety precautions first.

ivykaty44 Fri 04-Oct-13 15:11:37

proper countryside in Somerset grin I love it - would that be exmoor, is that proper countryside?

Gerbilectomy Fri 04-Oct-13 15:15:29

That's why pedestrians have pavements and designated places where they have priority to cross.

And where there are no pavements? No crossings?

The roads are for ALL road users, but drivers have unique responsibilities to keep themselves and other road users safe.

If you're driving around expecting pedestrians to prevent you from killing them, then you have entirely the wrong attitude. The onus is on YOU. you are the one with the lethal weapon under your control.

Pedestrians and cyclists can be a bit defensive, yes, because we're sick and tired of being blamed for being killed and injured in our thousands by pig ignorant fucking car drivers.

comingalongnicely Fri 04-Oct-13 15:19:07

lol @ Gerbil

Absolutely no responsibility on the part of the pedestrians then?

Easier to blame others eh? Cross at the proper places, don't be an arse & you may live longer - small consolation being in the right when you're under the wheels of a bus....

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 15:37:09

proper countryside in Somerset grin I love it - would that be exmoor, is that proper countryside?

ivy To me, who grew up near Epping Forest, it is. It's all relative, isn't it?

I imagine there are more wild parts of Britain than Exmoor but I didn't realise this was a competition. I thought it was about being pleasant to people, which was what I was trying to do.

To the parents of the small children that you have just collected from the school at the top of my street.
Standing gassing to each other in the road while your children run around will get you all killed. You were lucky today that I didn't run you over. There is a generous pavement. Stand on that instead and supervise your kids.
I'm still shaking.

Meglet Fri 04-Oct-13 16:09:59

Other drivers - don't waste your time 'flashing' me to turn into a junction first if it's your right of way. I'll decide when I turn thanks. And yes, I'll watch you getting pissed off with me and I won't care. Same goes for when I'm walking, don't flash me across.

Runners - stay off the roads. I've discovered these wonderful new inventions that I run on called paths and don't involve a tonne of steel tearing past at 30mph. You won't be very healthy if you're hit by a crap driver.

Cyclists - I'm in a minority of 1 as I really don't mind you on the pavement if you cycle sensibly. Just please use your bell, don't go fast and don't have your headphones in.

Pedestrians - It would never occur to me to expect you to 'thank' me at a pedestrian crossing.

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 16:13:35

Gerbil Pedestrians have got to take some responsibility for their own safety. I've had so many step out in front of me without warning (mostly kids around here) and while I'll do everything in my power to reduce the risk to them I can only stop my car so fast.

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Fri 04-Oct-13 16:16:16

yesterday driving home from Cornwall on the A38 expressway I saw two young boys in school uniform stood on the central reservation having run across one side and watched them through my mirror behind me run across the second carriageway WTF could not believe my eyes silly little sods bet the parents / carers would have had a fit if they knew.

froubylou Fri 04-Oct-13 16:19:35

Dear drivers. Please note that when you want to access a car park or exit or enter your drive you may have to cross the pavement. A dropped kerb doesn't make that part of the pavement road. Therefore there may be pedestrians on it not really expecting a car.

Hth.

limitedperiodonly Fri 04-Oct-13 16:26:57

Sorry ivy I might have been a bit touchy there. Ignore.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 16:30:53

>Cyclists - I'm in a minority of 1 as I really don't mind you on the pavement if you cycle sensibly. Just please use your bell, don't go fast and don't have your headphones in.

Make that two! There are places where it makes much more sense for cyclists to share the pavement than the road, and the vast majority do it totally sensibly and considerably hereabouts.

Car drivers - if you come round a corner towards a junction which I and my dog have started crossing before you were within sight or sound, don't expect us to break into a run to get across so you don't have to stop.

choccyp1g Fri 04-Oct-13 16:35:46

Hear hear, Meglet why do runners run on roads when there are pavements?

choccyp1g Fri 04-Oct-13 16:43:33

Make that a minority of 2, around here there are some places that are so dangerous for cyclists, I don't blame them for using the pavement, so long as they use their bell and give priority to pedestrians.

AnotherStitchInTime Fri 04-Oct-13 16:44:07

Dear motorists,

You are meant to stop behind the line at a pelican crossing, not on the crossing. It doesn't matter if it is a yellow box junction you, should wait for space on the other side before moving forward. When I then point this out to you because I have no means of crossing safely with my buggy, a simple sorry followed by you reversing so that I can cross would be more appropriate than sarcastic remarks.

Oh and it is an offence to aggressively rev your engine at a heavily pregnant lady who could not finish crossing before the light went green, pedestrians have right of way. Same goes for elderly people and people with small children.

Parents the school keep clear and markings near crossings are there for a reason, they are not a space kept just for parents to pick up/drop off their children. If an ambulance or fire engine needs to get through, they can't if you park on the school keep clear. Equally other drivers need a good view of the crossing so they don't run children over.

Also parking on the double yellow line at the corners and junctions of roads makes it very difficult and unsafe to cross for people in wheelchairs, people with buggies and other pedestrians.

Incidentally I always thank drivers who stop at zebra crossings, because I want them to stop in future, it is rare these days. Black cab drivers are the worst offenders, they never stop.

FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 16:45:39

The highway code quite CLEARLY states.

15
Reversing vehicles. Never cross behind a vehicle which is reversing, showing white reversing lights or sounding a warning.

https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians-1-to-35/crossing-the-road-7-to-17

Did you read that? Pedestrians should NEVER walk behind a reversing vehicle.

DiamondMask Fri 04-Oct-13 17:11:06

Dont park across drop kerbs or I will bump a heavy wheelchair up and over your car. Just sayin'...

tallulah Fri 04-Oct-13 17:20:57

Somebody further down posted the actual bit from the Highway Code

you MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing.

As a driver you do not have to stop until the pedestrian has stepped onto the road. That being the case I smile and mouth "thanks" to the drivers who stop to let me cross. It costs nothing, and I hope that by doing so, they will be more inclined to stop (for someone else) on the next crossing.

When I drive I look around as I approach to see if anyone is likely to be crossing and act accordingly.

Malaia Fri 04-Oct-13 17:29:42

The crossing thing is odd. Why would I wave at a driver on a crossing? Drivers don't wave and thank me if traffic lights are on green and they are driving by while I politely wait my turn rather than walking in front of their car.

Thanking a car driver for waiting their turn at a crossing is equivalent to queuing in a shop and turning to thank the people behind you in the queue for not violently throwing you aside so they can be served first.

everlong Fri 04-Oct-13 17:33:28

I find a lot of pedestrians wave when I stop for them. If they do I wave back.

everlong Fri 04-Oct-13 17:35:22

It's just courtesy isn't it?

When someone let's me out of a junction I flash or wave. It's being pleasant.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 17:42:33

I don't like it when drivers flash their lights to say 'thank you' - weirdly enough, I prefer not being dazzled. I know they mean well but it often not a great idea.

>Pedestrians should NEVER walk behind a reversing vehicle.
Is there a clause which states that vehicles shouldn't start to reverse if there's someone behind them.... a lot don't look properly.

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 17:45:01

"Dear cyclists,

When going round a corner on a steep hill, could you please refrain from riding two or even three abreast as I can't actually see that you are there until I am right behind you.

Cheers now."

Mmm, if this causes you a problem then you're going to fast for the road. They're probably 2 abreast to stop people overtaking them on a corner. I often ride in the middle of the carriageway in such situations which is the same thing really. And on Sky Rides the qualified ride leaders tell you to ride 2 abreast the whole time.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 17:49:07

yes... if cyclists (who are moving in the same direction as you) cause you a problem, then what's going to happen if there's a stationary obstruction in the road? Or a sheep ambling towards you?

Malaia Fri 04-Oct-13 17:52:10

Everlong, because nobody has to let you out at a junction, they are doing you a favour. When a pedestrian is at a crossing, they can legally step out on that crossing at any moment as one foot on the road gives them right of way, so you should have slowed down to almost stopping in case they do. If you don't do that, it's like pulling out at a junction without slowing down as you approach it, on the expectation that cars already on the road won't continue to drive along the section of road you want to join. It is the pedestrian's right of way to step out on to the road. You are not doing them a favour anymore than a pedestrian not walking out when the red man is on is doing you a favour.

BeScarefulWhatYouWitchFor Fri 04-Oct-13 17:55:24

Dear drivers. When you see a lollipop lady/man stepping out into the road in front of you at a big enough distance away for you to slow down and stop please do so. Do not carry on, missing the lollipop lady/man by inches and us (me, ds &dd) by not much more, whilst chatting away to your friend.

Dear drivers. Indicators are not optional extras but actually come as standard on your cars. Please find out their location and use them.

The first one happened when ds was 4, he's now 20. For some things I have a looooooooooong memory.

Pan Fri 04-Oct-13 18:09:24

Pedestrians - stay out of the bike lanes. The green paint doesn't make it short grass to wander in to.

Drivers - stay out of the green box Advanced Stop Line at traffic lights. It's a h & s measure for non-mechanical road users. We can tell the difference between a hybrid bike and a hybrid car. So can the police. It's £60 and 3 pts worth of difference. (and please don't talk about 'road tax' - it will make you look really silly and ill-informed.)

BadSeedsAddict Fri 04-Oct-13 18:19:31

If there was a sheep ambling around a steep hill corner, when to be fair I'm not the fastest driver anyway, and a car was coming the opposite way, I'd just have to deal with it I guess. But it would scare me nontheless. I would never overtake round a corner, I rarely overtake as it is. Overtaking cyclists makes me nervous, especially when other drivers get impatient behind me. I'm a relatively new driver. But it's news to me that cyclists are allowed to do this; everyone I have asked has said that they are not supposed to ride two abreast. Genuinely apologise if this is the case. Maybe it's just that I need more confidence in driving.

Pan Fri 04-Oct-13 18:26:20

yes, Bad it's often odd to hear drivers complaining about how potentially dangerous it is to over take cyclists. It's pretty simple though. You do it when it's safe to, just as when drivers over take buses, trucks other cars etc. So do please try to ignore the impatient drivers behind you. They are being bad drivers.

Malaia - what is wrong with a quick wave or smile at the driver who stops at a pedestrian crossing? It takes little or no time or effort, and (apologies for the kitsch) spreads a little sunshine.

As I said earlier on, the person who serves me at the till in Tesco has to serve me because it is their job - I always thank them anyway. I could have the attitude that I don't have to thank them because they are paid to do that job, but I consider it to be the right thing to do, and it makes the interaction a pleasant one.

In the same way, thanking the motorist who stops at a pedestrian crossing isn't obligatory at all, but it makes a neutral interaction into a pleasant, positive one, IMO - and the more of that there is in the world, the better, I think.

Extra thanks, extra pleasantness - these are never going to be negative things, so why argue against something that has no downside (that I can see) and that can make the world a tiny bit better?

Do you really only thank people who didn't have to do whatever it was they did for you? I'd feel sad, if that was the way I lived.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 18:29:49

Bad - yes, you need the confidence to ignore impatient idiots behind you. smile

Same goes even more if you've got to overtake horses! Riders will often give a signal when its clear - they can see better from up there.

MurderOfBanshees Fri 04-Oct-13 18:32:03

If I'm behind cyclists/horses somewhere where it isn't safe to overtake I tend to edge closer to the middle of the road to
a) indicate to the impatient twats behind me that I will overtake when possible
b) stop the impatient twats from attempting to overtake me and the cyclists/horses

BadSeedsAddict Fri 04-Oct-13 18:44:23

Well that's learned me! grin I'm glad I had that little whinge now. I tend to assume other drivers are more experienced and know better. Seriously though EVERYONE I've asked about the two abreast cyclist thing has said they're in the wrong, bip at them to get past etc. Hmm.

Malaia Fri 04-Oct-13 18:44:57

There's nothing wrong with it. Just as there is nothing wrong with thanking people waiting behind me in a queue for being prepared to stand in the queue and not push in, or for me thanking customers in a cafe for not running over and grabbing a chair that I already have hold of and am about to sit down on, or me leaning out of the house window and thanking people walking down the street for not randomly moving into a house I already live in.

But some car drivers do not see these situations as equivalent because they don't really think pedestrians should have the right to step on to the crossing at any moment they choose to and have right of way. They really think that the road is theirs. I actually prefer that my town centre had removed crossings and put paved areas at crossing points across roads instead, because even though it is still part of the road, drivers perceive it as pavement so not theirs to 'graciously' allow pedestrians on to, as they do with crossings.

And I'm not interacting with people in cars anymore than I am with the other pedestrians on the crossing. I don't wave at every other fellow pedestrian just because we are in a road crossing interaction. Do you wave at all the other car drivers if you are all waiting at lights?

Pan Fri 04-Oct-13 18:49:08

Bad - don't worry - drivers always know more than the other driver they are talking at. Even when they don't.grin

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 18:57:04

You shouldn't ever beep at cyclists. smile

They have as much right as a car to be there and they do have a right to be 2 abreast or to take the primary position (away from the kerb) if they feel safer. You just have to think of them as a tractor (ie; slow) and get round them when it's safe to do so.

everlong Fri 04-Oct-13 19:19:34

malaia I said when someone lets me out of a junction I flash or wave confused

everlong Fri 04-Oct-13 19:23:01

I don't understand how anyone who is a pedestrian would have this shitty attitude of ' it's my right '

I certainly wouldn't risk arguing my right with a moving car.

mewmeow Fri 04-Oct-13 20:08:22

hmm at pedestrians purposefully being careless, not like they've got their life to loose or anything?! Why the fuck would they purposefully walk out in front of cars. I'm fed up of being beeped at for being to slow at a crossing, or for crossing over/ walking on the pavement minding my business when a car decides to encroach on the space I'm occupying- not for a minute anticipating the obvious- that there might be someone walking there, then Hooting and shouting like a total dick hmm

If I thank a driver who has stopped at a pedestrian crossing, I think that is a pleasant interaction, and that it's better than ignoring them, even though I am not obligated to thank them. I honestly don't understand people trying to argue why it is wrong to do something nice.

Just because I don't wave at everyone on the road, doesn't mean I shouldn't wave at some people - just as the fact that I don't give to all charities doesn't mean I shouldn't donate to some.

As I said, a supermarket till operator is obligated to serve you - does that mean you don't thank them, Malaia?

digerd Fri 04-Oct-13 20:28:13

We have a zebra crossing in a side street off the busy main road. The side street has only a few houses and then it is a country lane. When I have stopped there to cross the road and one car comes along, it always stops for me and I give a smile and a wave, although it was not necessary as no cars behind themsmile. On the busy main road there are only pedestrian crossings.

SlowlorisIncognito Fri 04-Oct-13 20:46:09

There is a primary school at the end of my road, and some the children there do some kind of cycling proficiency. However, at the start of the session, they send all the children down to the end of the cul-de-sac, and they clump in the road on the junction. TBH, I think whoever is supervising the children has a duty of care to make sure they stop in a safer place, as some road users are impatient.

Adults pedestrians should take some responsibility for themselves though. I saw someone out for a jog on a busy (dual carraigeway) A-road the other day, which seemed a bit mental. It might be legal, but it definately isn't safe.

Equally, on the same road, I had to negotiate a hurse driving along at around 10mph. Most cars do 60-70mph on that section of road, so it was a real hazard.

Basically, I think drivers do have a duty to behave safely and expect the unexpected. However, as a pedestrian, you should look after your own safety and that of any children you are with. Sometimes drivers make mistakes, and ultimately you will come off worse.

I do think a lot of drivers don't actually know the highway code well enough, though.

The thing 20 yards to the right of you is a zebra crossing. It's actually for your benefit so fucking use it. Do not cross the road and when I have to do an emergency stop bang your hands on my bonnet. I am 34 weeks pregnant and angry and have a very itchy foot!

I always acknowledge someone who has stopped for me be it on a crossing or not. I thought it was just politeness. DS does it automatically. He is 8.

justanuthermanicmumsday Fri 04-Oct-13 20:57:12

I don't drive yet learning very lazily but I've always thought why is it legal in this country to walk in the middle of the road unaided with pedestrian crossings? A car could be speeding up and people run out.

Forget running out I've noticed in brum Asian areas they are the worst offenders. They will walk like a layed back walk like they are strolling down the beach in barbados, some swagger too. They have this I don't give a toss attitude you must slow down for me. Old and young do this. It should be illegal!

FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 21:11:22

Cyclists - pphttps://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82]]

66.
you should

never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends.

FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 21:11:53
FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 21:13:56

Seriously, you people asserting stuff really need to actually READ THE HIGHWAY CODE!!

Ilovemyself Fri 04-Oct-13 21:14:31

I can't believe the number of pedestrians who think that not acknowledging a driver for stopping is required.

It's called common courtesy and is no different to holding a door open for someone or saying thank you to someone for holding the door open for you.

Pedestrians can be so self bloody righteous at times - when they walk into your path in a car park or when the cross the road without looking whilst eating a burger, listening to their iPod and reading at the same time. It's always your fault.

inabeautifulplace Fri 04-Oct-13 21:16:28

"I don't understand how anyone who is a pedestrian would have this shitty attitude of ' it's my right '

I certainly wouldn't risk arguing my right with a moving car."

Think about how common it is that you approach a roundabout and the HGV pulls out in front of you because it's bigger. That's quite frustrating, but not really dangerous. Then imagine how it'd be if the same HGVs just pulled out of blind junctions in front of you. Because they're bigger.

I don't like risking my life either as a pedestrian, but it is FUCKING irritating when trying to cross a road 5m from a blind junction and cuntyface decides that it's fine to negotiate the bend at 30mph and fuck the consequences (because there aren't any for them).

Does that clarify anything for you?

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 21:17:19

Freight rider, firstly there's a big difference between should and must.

The main thing is the individual road. I wouldn't ride two abreast round a bend on a narrow road. That would be dangerous as a car could come head on into me.

But if its a wide road, wide enough for two cars then yes I'd happily ride two abreast.

It's safer as it puts off a car coming up behind me from overtaking immediately before the bend/on the bend. Some drivers will do this as they're so impatient. If then they meet a car coming the other way they're going to swerve left into the cyclist rather than have a head on with another car. Sorry, but I wouldn't put myself in a dangerous position like that.

CrohnicallyLurking Fri 04-Oct-13 21:19:44

Why would you try to cross 5m from a blind junction! I was taught not to cross the road unless I could see both ways that there was nothing coming- even if that meant walking further away from your destination and doubling back after crossing.

everlong Fri 04-Oct-13 21:23:09

' does that clarify anything for you '

No, not at all.

I'm talking about the attitude that some people have who think they can step out on a zebra crossing and expect the driver to stop no matter what.

As a pedestrian it is your responsibly to maintain your safety.

Ilovemyself Fri 04-Oct-13 21:26:36

Inabeautifulplace. HGV's don't pull out because they are bigger. They pull out because they have to find a suitable gap and if there is constant traffic the only way is to pull out causing the least problems possible.

This just goes to show unless you drive or have experience of all forms of transport your judgement of their driving can be flawed by you own lack of experience

IndignantOne Fri 04-Oct-13 21:45:36

Oh goody I have the attention of lots of drivers here! So:

Dear drivers, indicators are a real thing, try them some time.

Dear drivers, if there is a queue of traffic, don't wait over a zebra crossing or any other type of pedestrian crossing thus blocking it off.

Dear drivers, if a cyclist needs to take the centre of the lane, it as much for your safety as their own. Be patient, they'll move aside when they've cleared the junction or whatever.

Dear drivers, when it is cold and wet outside, remember you are in a warm dry vehicle and however miserable you're feeling, it's much worse for those of us walking or cycling.

Dear drivers, it is illegal to park on cycle paths, stop doing it.

FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 21:46:00

Actually, the highway code also states that pedestrians should ensure all vehicles have stopped before they step onto a crossing of any kind.

Once they're ON a crossing, they have right of way, but they must not step out until the vehicles have stopped.

https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians-1-to-35/crossings-18-to-30

18
At all crossings. When using any type of crossing you should

always check that the traffic has stopped before you start to cross or push a pram onto a crossing

19.
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing.

FrightRider Fri 04-Oct-13 21:47:02

https://www.gov.uk/highway-code

the link for all the numpties who're talking complete bollocks.

Bodicea Fri 04-Oct-13 21:57:37

Thanks to all he people who agreed with about zebra crossings. Yes the car is obliged to stop by law but it is just politeness to thank them
I always do and those that don't are ignorant full stop.

3asAbird Fri 04-Oct-13 22:50:40

I have the misfortune of going to a school opposite a hospital.

The hospital staff park all the way down both sides of a very long rd.

This rd has no crossings at any point along it.

Part of the road is t junction and that,s horrible to cross sharp corners and drivers coming out of preschool struggle to get out car park.

In addition to this its major cut through for motorway/ring road yet its small village b road.

I was fuming when my daughter nearly got hit at school crossing.
i feel nervous every day.

To get into school we have to walk on back rd without pavement or walk through a car park so journey is full of danger.

To get to this dangerous rd I can walk down a steep hill narrow with no pavement for some of it and drivers speeding round blind corners.

Or I take my chances on ring rd cycle path which clearly has little bike one side people other amount of tuts abuse me and kids get when on cyclist side as they on wrong side gives me cycle path rage nearly shouted at cyclist morning.

I don't understand the way people drive so selfshly and carelessly.

Parking on pavements quite bag here.

Rare a driver bothers to stop at zebra crossing.

doing lessons atm and instructer says don't as hands off wheel and never wave pedestrians accross as might be safe your direction but not he other but hes also quite a defensive driver and hates pedestrians, cyclists and bus drivers.

Been too many nasty accidents locally recently.

Some areas have really poor pedestrian access combined with being close to schools winds me up.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 22:54:25

Cyclists country roads two a breast etc..
Honestly I don't like driving behind cyclists wherever they are ...and I am an experienced careful driver ...trying to find a good spot to overtake etc, etc ...(someone earlier mentioned tractors - and guess what? I and I am sure most other motorists don't like driving behind tractors either...)
But I really hate cyclists on 60 mph/no pavement roads ...I .think they are so dangerous - not because I come round the corners too fast or try and overtake on a corner ...it is the fact that I might behind them on a bendy road -doing 15 mph trying to find a good spot to overtake - when an idiot doing 70+ comes round that corner and rear ends me ...and the sad thing is ...if the cyclists are two abreast when I'm shunted forward I'm going to almost definitely hit one of them - whereas I may have been able to avoid just one...

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 22:58:02

Its not the cyclists who are dangerous in that scenario - its the idiot driving at 70 round a corner.

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 23:00:52

You may not like driving behind a tractor or a cyclist but legally they're both entitled to be there. If a car rear ends you it's the other cars fault. As a cyclist I'll take my chances and ride as safely and defensively as I can.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:03:16

Errol - of course it is the idiots fault - no argument - but there are idiots - the fact it isn't mine or the cyclist's fault isn't going to stop me, my children and potentially a cyclist or two getting hurt...

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 23:04:56

But you said you think it's cyclists that are dangerous.

When in reality it's speeding car drivers in that situation which are dangerous.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 23:10:10

Yup. Cyclists may, unfortunately, be endangering themselves.

I never cycle on roads now; I used to but there's too many bad drivers and the roads near me - though official cycle routes - are narrow and windy. Now I've got a child its not worth the risk. It annoys me to have to put the bikes on a rack and drive them somewhere offroad to use them.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:14:12

But the cyclist is the danger! - As a car driver I would like to drive as safely and defensively as I can too..
that includes not doing 15 mph on a 60 mph road around a blind corner...
Stuck behind a big tractor/lorry it at least - with any luck - it should be more visible to the approaching idiot ...

inabeautifulplace Fri 04-Oct-13 23:15:03

Inabeautifulplace. HGV's don't pull out because they are bigger. They pull out because they have to find a suitable gap and if there is constant traffic the only way is to pull out causing the least problems possible.

So when there is not constant traffic they pull out why?

5m from the junction I'm thinking of would not be a problem if people stopped driving so carelessly. It is, btw, where the council have placed the dropped kerb and dimpled pavement. Where blind people are supposed to cross, yes? I reiterate, it is perfectly safe when people are not negotiating it without braking or looking where they are going!

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 23:16:24

I do drive a car as well. I've never felt in danger when waiting behind a cyclist. I think that 99.9% of car driver s will see another car slowed down, its no different than if you were waiting to turn right, etc.

I think the roads would be a lot safer without cars on them.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 23:22:09

unlucky - 'that includes not doing 15 mph on a 60 mph road around a blind corner...'

There is actually no such thing as a 60 mph road. There are roads on which it is legal to do up to 60mph if it is safe to do so. Around a blind corner, its not safe.

It is not the cyclist who is the danger. Its the motorist who assumes they can go round blind corners too fast to deal with whatever might be there.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 23:25:04

>I think the roads would be a lot safer without cars on them.

Well, of course. Especially the country roads that evolved before the invention of the car - the narrow windy lanes I've been talking about. Modern roads designed for cars don't have blind corners. Shame that the realities of 21st century life mean we can't restrict cars to the roads designed for them.

unlucky83 Fri 04-Oct-13 23:30:17

Viva - do you drive or cycle on those kinds of roads though?
We have lots of those roads around ...miles away from a motorway - famously dangerous A roads...to go more or less anywhere involves driving on one of these roads...but actually it isn't really the main A roads - they are usually not too bendy, quite wide - some opportunity to swerve ...it is smaller A roads I really don't like ....
I cycle sometimes (badly) on local 30mph roads ...and take my children off road...
My sister doesn't own a car, cycles everywhere - including for pleasure the country roads near where my parents live...and I've had this discussion with her...
I think you would be mad to cycle on that kind of road - but it is your choice...
And you are are perfectly legally entitled to ....and that's fine - but I hate it because I feel that I (and more importantly -my children) are being put into a potentially dangerous situation ...

olgaga Fri 04-Oct-13 23:43:43

Yes funnily enough lots of pedestrians are also drivers.

The ones who wander in such an annoying fashion in supermarket car parks with their at-risk toddlers? They're going back to their car.

Those who step off the pavement and "cut you up", those who fail to give you a cheery wave by way of thanks because you've stopped at a red light/zebra. The weekend lycra louts on their custom build cycles racing along at 35mph channelling Wiggo. The middle aged Sunday motorcyclists weaving in and out of traffic cos Wahey! they can.

If they behave like they own the road, they're drivers.

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 23:44:07

I cycle on all sorts, apart from dual carriageways. We haven't got many round here!

But bendy, narrow lanes, fast narrow B roads, bendy fast B roads, A roads, through city centres.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 23:45:21

Its ironic that the roads that are least suitable to drive cars on (because they weren't designed for them) and which should be nicest to ride bikes on are exactly the sort that are particularly risky for cyclists to use.

I don't hate the cyclists who do use them, I hate that I don't feel able to do likewise because of selfish drivers. The sort of 'danger' posed to a driver by a cyclist is the same sort of danger as can also occur on such roads for all sorts of other reasons - stock in the road, walkers, agricultural vehicles with fearsome attachments emerging from farm gates, shed bales of straw....

VivaLeThrustBadger Fri 04-Oct-13 23:48:42

I hate car drivers who I think might put me in a dangerous position.

Though its not often I feel unsafe. Sometimes idiots pulling out of side roads without noticing me.

I've recently bought a recumbent trike and dh thinks I'm a bit mad riding it. I've got a tall, fluorescent flag on it though.

There's a fast B road near me where I used to feel unsafe. It's wide enough for two cars, you could just squeeze two cars and a bike through. I used to ride here near the road edge and cars would squeeze by at speed like 3" from my elbow. I now ride 2ft from the edge of the road so they can't overtake unless the road in the opposite direction is clear. It's much safer and I feel better now I do this.

ErrolTheDragon Fri 04-Oct-13 23:56:04

Viva - yes - also, riding near the edge, if someone does pass too close then you've nowhere to go if there's an obstruction or pothole. Riding with a gap gives you that bit of wiggle room if you need it.

I must admit when I see a recumbent trike I wonder about their visibility - even with the flags. Mostly see them offroad which is fine, obv.

VivaLeThrustBadger Sat 05-Oct-13 00:03:59

It was the one thing that put me off but people give me more room. I think as its so unusual people think WTF and brake and pull out. They're not sure if I have a motor, how fast I'm going, etc. I'm more noticeable by being unusual.

unlucky83 Sat 05-Oct-13 00:15:18

Unfortunately some places where I live you can't go without using roads like that ...
There are some near my parents too - literally have to go down to second gear on two bends ... (I used to cycle along there when I was a child (a loooong time ago) but I guess less there were less cars on the road then)
I bought my first mobile phone and a warning triangle because my car had developed a fault and the garage that could deal with it was along a road like that...I was told it was safe enough to use whilst they waited for the part to come in ...but that didn't stop me worrying on the way to get it repaired ...if it broke down I could get out and wait in a field but what about the poor driver coming around the corner ...even at 30 ...
(BTW I wouldn't be doing 60mph on those roads ...more like 40 tops - but at least if I was going slightly faster the idiot would have more time to brake - and if it was a cyclist rather than a car more swerve space ...)
Viva -You hate car drivers - I am allowed to hate cyclists on those roads - actually find them frightening ...we are going to have to disagree...(but of course I'm right!!!!)
(And I'm sorry -if it is just for pleasure.... I have to put you in the same category as my sister I'm afraid - mad grin)

VivaLeThrustBadger Sat 05-Oct-13 00:17:43

grin

That's ok, I don't really hate car drivers. But shhh, as a Lycra clad cyclist I have to maintain the pretence.

Pan Sat 05-Oct-13 00:30:05

I ride a lot (also utterly covered in lycra) and most drivers and peds are fine - but some peds don't really think of themselves as poss causing an obstruction at all.

MurderOfBanshees Sat 05-Oct-13 08:27:51

"Why the fuck would they purposefully walk out in front of cars."

Because some people are just stupid I guess

I knew it had to happen sometime on a thread about roads. I totally agree with pan. I think it is just that - people think they're just nipping into the road or walking across, and they're too small to be in the way.

What gives me the shudders is people who push their pushchair out into the road first, crossing on the red or in the middle of traffic - then dodge back because it wasn't safe. hmm angry

Also, for the love of god, if you are shepherding a group of children around a city, yes, I know it's difficult (I remember), and I know the cars may be on the opposite side of the street from what you're used to. But please, don't act as an unofficial lollipop lady. Standing in the middle of the road and yelling at traffic when it starts to move towards you is stupid. There is a traffic light, with a button, which you can press.

If anyone can tell me why people do this (is it allowed in some countries so they think it's a rule?), I'd love to know. It's especially fun when you can see that traffic turning won't be able to see idiot tourist guide waving children across the road.

UptheChimney Sat 05-Oct-13 09:19:58

pedestrians do not have the right of way when i'm reversing off a main road into a business driveway or junction. Their pavement stops and i am still on the road

Actually, pedestrians have right of way everywhere, if you look at the Highway Code. It's just that we are not stupid, and realise that we can't fight a lethal metal object driven by a potential idiot.

The thing is, drivers are in charge of a potentially killing machine, and it is their obligation to drive responsibly. The roads are SHARED, and a lot of drivers could do with remembering that occasionally.

FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 09:38:19

actually chimney, you might want to read the rest of the thread and the bit where i found the section of the Hughway code that states pedestrains should never walk behind a reversing vehicle.

Please dont assert shit you know fuck all about.

samu2 Sat 05-Oct-13 09:56:39

Dear drivers, please give learners some respect! A lot of us drive safer than you.

You shouldn't pull out in front of me at a roundabout. You were meant to be giving way to me. Don't assume that I am slow so I have to slam my breaks on because you pulled out in front of me just after I have pulled out.

Don't Mutter 'fucking learners' when we are stopped at lights just because you don't like us. You were one once too.

Oh and don't do a turn in the road on a blind bend and end up on the wrong side of the road causing everyone to stop.

Stokes Sat 05-Oct-13 09:58:18

There are no requirements to be a pedestrian. No test to pass or licence to keep. Yes of course we should all keep ourselves safe, and accidents do happen where a motorist never could've seen a pedestrian coming. But pedestrians can be blind, deaf, elderly, very young or have any other special need and drivers should always have that in mind.

I walk to and from work everyday, it's only a mile each way but everyday I will see drivers behaving like dicks. Usually by stopping in the crossing while they wait for traffic to clear. Not only do they make it dangerous for pedestrians to cross, they completely block the crossing for anyone with a buggy or wheelchair.

Last Thursday was my most eventful walk home for a while. When I got to one busy junction, the green man had already been on a while. As it always is at that junction, the traffic was backed up, so the left hand lane had a car in it who hadn't waited for the junction to clear. But I'm an able bodied person, not pushing a buggy or wheelchair so luckily I was able to cross behind that car. The car in the right hand lane had indeed waited for the junction to clear before moving - unfortunately they completely forgot about the traffic lights and pulled into the crossing as soon as their path was clear, breaking the red light and nearly hitting me in the process.

A little further down the road, we saw 3 out of 4 cars turn the wrong way onto a one way street from a side road - you see, they're not going far and it's much quicker than going the right way round the block, so that makes it OK.

Oh, and I would often wave to thank a driver who's stopped at a zebra crossing, especially if I haven't stepped out yet so they don't have to. As a driver I would never expect a pedestrian to do so. Big difference between giving and expecting thanks in this scenario.

HungryHorace Sat 05-Oct-13 10:02:25

Just because they shouldn't walk behind a reversing vehicle it doesn't mean they don't have right of way if they do so. You're not allowed to just run them over, no matter how stupid they are! (Though if they're that daft they may well end up nominated for a Darwin Award at some point anyway!)

nomorecrumbs Sat 05-Oct-13 10:05:18

While we're on the subject of bad drivers, last night was classic in that two drivers on two consecutive town roads fucked up so badly they caused huge queues and blocks on the roundabouts a few yards down the road!

One mum had blocked a lane of a busy road by parking at a daft angle half-on the pavement, half-off, dunno WTF she was doing but her loading the buggy back into the boot of her car took ages. The cars behind were honking like crazy. The traffic was backed up streets behind.

On the road after, one person had tried to squeeze past a bus down a double-parked road and got stuck. They couldn't figure out which way to turn their wheel to avoid hitting the bus. A pedestrian had to guide them out! Again cue honking, angry drivers getting out of their cars, etc. etc. this went on for about 10 minutes. Sigh.

In most cases it does seem like impatience, rather than incompetence, causes problems on the roads.

Pan Sat 05-Oct-13 10:13:14

LRD shock Whoda thunk it!smile

My road is fairly narrow with parking on both sides. Cue drivers in numerous 'stand offs' refusing to 'give way' when meeting head on in the narrow strip in the middle. Sometimes have the urge to set up trestle tables and bunting, munching on cup cakes and jelly whilst we watch the painful scene unfold. And us with the largest brains on the planet.

UptheChimney Sat 05-Oct-13 10:28:02

I walk to and from work everyday, it's only a mile each way but everyday I will see drivers behaving like dicks

This.

Drivers forget all the time that they are SHARING the roads. And if drivers behave like dicks they can do an awful lot of damage. Like the FW who hit my mother as she was on a zebra crossing and a bus had pulled up for,. the utter utter dickface who overtook the bus, and sent my mother flying really thought that he had right of way. He got off with a reprimand. My mother has been left with a lifelong impairment.

Last week I had 'fun' whilst driving (slowly) in the thick fog, when I encountered a woman walking in the direction of the traffic, on a narrow road, dressed in grey.

Just around the corner was a cyclist, also in grey, with no lights, reflectors, or high-vis jacket.

Not sure what would have happened if they'd encountered the loon who overtook me at 80 mph on the A12 about five minutes earlier.

Pan Sat 05-Oct-13 10:42:25

Mrs - these weren't physical entities you saw, were they? They were Halloween-prepping apparitions....

FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 10:42:29

i've wound my window down to yell at a cyclist on a main road in thick fog with no high vis or lights on his bike that we narrowly avoided hitting.

There is being sensible to maintain safety, and there is being reckless with your own and other road users lives.

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 10:42:51

49% of drivers have broken the 30 mph limit, the limit is set for the reason it is far less likely to kill at under 30mph whereas over this speed it is much more likely to kill. The speed limit is for good reason in a built up area.

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 10:55:06

Ivykaty. 78.769% of statistics are made up.......

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 11:00:22

Upthechimney. 1 idiot driver that hits you mother. I am sorry to hear that.

But there are just as many, if not more, idiots that are pedestrians that cross the road without looking, cross on a pelican when the lights for them are red, and generally don't pay attention.

The don't have insurance, and after causing an accident by doing something stupid tend to walk on like its nothing to do with them.

Car drivers ( actually drivers in general) are always the ones who get the blamed yet the pedestrian or (dare I say it) cyclists that cause accidents are above reproach according the the most vocal out there

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 11:03:12

It thought it was very low actually - I would of hedged a bet at 75% of drivers have broken the 30mph limit, this though is why you are able to joke about it as it is seen as normal and fine - but If I ran down the road with a sharp knife you would think this was dangerous when in actual fact it is far less dangerous to people than the amount of cars speeding on our roads.

One is normalised and if you hit a pedestrian whilst speeding this will be called an accident. The other will be seen as a dangerous act. Bizarre as they are both dangerous acts

FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 11:42:50

tbh, even as a pedestrian who walks my kids to school.. the only answer to the 'blame' game is to make it illegal for a pedestrian to cross anywhere other than at designated crossing points and to give cars the right of way on the roads, like they do on motorways.

Then if some idiot is stupid enough to walk infront or behind of a moving vehicle and gets hit, its their fault and not the drivers.

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 11:53:11

so cars would have the rights of way on all roads like they do on motorways - do you mean that other modes of transport would be banned as they are on motorways?

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 12:11:37

Ivykaty. Are you being deliberately obtuse. If a pedestrian does something dangerous THEY are to blame. If they step into the road without warning, or wander behind a reversing vehicle and get hit is it the drivers fault. No way.

And i was joking because anyone on a website can make up statistics. And I don't know where you live, but round here most people travel within the limit - certainly not the near half you have stated.

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 14:08:54

Ilovemyself - I came back and read your post of 12:11 and didn't understand why you though I was being obtuse - but then I see the post I replied to was yours at 10;55 and then you posted again whilst I must have been writing my post. I guess I type slower than you - but there is no need to be so rude .

I live in a place where there are slow down lights for vehicles so they can monitor the amount of time the lights flash for vehicles to slow down as they are travelling faster than the speed limit

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 14:15:33

It wasn't rude at all. I can be if you want though !

Funny. We have those lights too, and well below the 47% you quoted set them off.

Can you substantiate the 47% or is it a guessed at or made up figure?

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 14:24:33

I was just looking for some information that wasn't stats - it seems the speed awareness scheme made over £20 million in 2011-2012 and that is charge £100 per course.

can you show me the figures you have for the lights well below 47% ?

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 14:46:48

No. But it is based on what I have seen. 47% would be every other car or so and I wilts say that it is less than 1 in 10.

When I have put the kids to bed I will go and sit there for an hour and give you some hot off the press statistics........

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 14:58:39

this is interesting the ways the roads and towns are arranged will help make them safer for all modes of transport

ilovemyself this is where I got my figures from the Gov website statistics may not be great but your guess at the figures in speeding is rubbish guessing

Interesting....

On my journey to college, I have to pass one of those 'slow down' lights. In the three years I've been driving there, I have never set it off. It's in a reasonably small village and I'd say about 1 in 10 drivers do trigger it.

On the journey home, because of the arrangement of roads, I have to pass a different 'slow down' light. It's on a road that connects a B road to an A road. I've never set it off. However, around 6 of every 10 other drivers do. I think they see it as a challenge as they rush to join the A road. Despite it being situated where it is because there is a playground, sportsfield, nursery school and guides/scouts hut on the road, and despite the road having a clear 30 limit.

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 15:06:20

Ivykaty. It's not a guess. Less than one in ten cars is less than 10%

Why don't you just stop car bashing and accept that cyclists and pedestrians are responsible for their own behaviour
- no one else

insancerre Sat 05-Oct-13 15:11:07

A little, wave, nod or smile when I stop for you at a zebra crossing would be appreciated. Seriously where are your manners. I have stopped my car just for you. At least acknowledge my existence!
^
sense of own self-importance, much?
You want thanks for obeying the law, really? shock
do you thank every car driver who stops at a red light, or every driver that stops at a give way sign or every driver who gives way at roundabouts?

SunshineMMum Sat 05-Oct-13 15:15:08

YANBU a child was killed here a few weeks ago. He stepped out into the road looking at his Iphone. Please, please remind your kids.

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 15:15:28

Insancerre. I always give a nod, wave or smile when someone stops for me at a zebra. It's called courtesy and if more people had it the world would be a much better place.

Ilovemyself - whilst I agree that pedestrians and cyclists have to take responsibility for their own safety, I also think that drivers have got to be aware that they can potentially do far more damage to a cyclist or pedestrian than the cyclist or pedestrian can do to them.

I think of it in these terms - driving a car means I have a lot of power, but with that comes a lot of responsibility - and the more aware we all are of other road users (in which I include pedestrians), the safer we will all be.

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 15:36:33

Stdg. I agree totally. But it always seems to be the motorist that gets the blame.

ivykaty44 Sat 05-Oct-13 21:00:09

Ilovemyself - it is a guess you made up I do know 10% is one in ten but it is still a number you made up and you can't find anything to dispute the 2013 figure at 49%

I drive a car - why would I bash myself?

If it is based on her observations of cars passing a particular sign, then isn't it an estimation rather than a pure guess?

Ilovemyself Sat 05-Oct-13 21:25:56

Exactly stdg. I did actually sit up near the sign tonight waiting to pick up a friend. In 15 muntes 120 cars passed and 2 set it off.

That is less than 2 per cent. I know it is a small sample but is still a measure of the ACTUAL figure and not some government average that has no relevance to many locations.

inabeautifulplace Sat 05-Oct-13 22:15:08

"Add message | Report | Message poster FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 09:38:19
actually chimney, you might want to read the rest of the thread and the bit where i found the section of the Hughway code that states pedestrains should never walk behind a reversing vehicle.

Please dont assert shit you know fuck all about."

From the Highway Code:

170
Take extra care at junctions. You should

watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way.

206
Drive carefully and slowly when

needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement
reversing into a side road; look all around the vehicle and give way to any pedestrians who may be crossing the road
turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning

See, the turning into junctions one is mentioned twice! But you carry on driving like a cunt sad

FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 22:27:03

that says give way to pedestrains already crossing the road.

its point 206.

point 15 states pedestrians should NEVER walk behind a vehicle reversing or showing reversing lights.

drivers are just told to be careful and give right of way to the ones already crossing, which is plain common sense. I am still right in saying that pedestrains SHOULD NEVER walk behind a reversing vehicle.

But hey ho, you carry on being a cunt who thinks they can walk where they like!

FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 22:33:33

oh, and your punctuation of that is misleading.

point 206 says.

206
Drive carefully and slowly when

*in crowded shopping streets, Home Zones and Quiet Lanes (see Rule 218) or residential areas
*driving past bus and tram stops; pedestrians may emerge suddenly into the road
*passing parked vehicles, especially ice cream vans; children are more interested in ice cream than traffic and may run into the road unexpectedly
*needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement
* reversing into a side road; look all around the vehicle and give way to any pedestrians who may be crossing the road
turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning
the pavement is closed due to street repairs and pedestrians are directed to use the road
approaching pedestrians on narrow rural roads without a footway or footpath. Always slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary, giving them plenty of room as you drive past.

which in no way contravenes this one

Rules for pedestrians (1 to 35)
2. Crossing the road (7 to 17)

15
Reversing vehicles. Never cross behind a vehicle which is reversing, showing white reversing lights or sounding a warning.

FrightRider Sat 05-Oct-13 22:35:44

basically love, if i'm reversing and you come to the side road, you legally have to wait for me to finish what im doing.

if i want to reverse and you're already in the process of crossing, i have to wait for you to finish crossing the road before i reverse.

its not fucking rocket science, it does however stop you from ending up being run over.

Lora1982 Sat 05-Oct-13 23:15:37

What about the ones who see you coming half jog accross the road and walk slower on your half as you approach. Sods

PatPig Sun 06-Oct-13 01:49:06

actually pedestrians don't 'legally' have any obligations at all.

there are no laws.

cars OTOH, can be done on all kinds of things.

sashh Sun 06-Oct-13 06:28:43

VW bettle drivers used to do this as they waved to each other, so do camper vans and motorhomes - they wave to each other, cyclists say good morning or good afternoon or nod a head if peddling up hill and out of breath.

And motorcyclists

UptheChimney Sun 06-Oct-13 08:10:35

Do you mean to be so rude, FrightRider ?

limitedperiodonly Sun 06-Oct-13 08:18:42

I'm no lawyer but I've got a funny feeling that if a pedestrian got in the way of your car and you had time to stop but mowed them down anyway, they might be in hospital but you'd be in court. Love.

"VW bettle drivers used to do this as they waved to each other, so do camper vans and motorhomes - they wave to each other, cyclists say good morning or good afternoon or nod a head if peddling up hill and out of breath."

When I was about 9, my dad got a Moskvich (a Russian car) - and we all had to wave if we saw another Moskvich!

WMittens Sun 06-Oct-13 11:23:44

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

And did you?

See another one, I mean wink

FrightRider Sun 06-Oct-13 11:28:42

Yes i did chimney. You'd know if i was being polite.

FrightRider Sun 06-Oct-13 11:33:20

and if you dont like me being rude, then perhaps people shouldn't go around calling me a cunt for pointing out what the highway code actually states.

we all have to be considerate, but people on this thread seem to think that being on foot gives them divine right to act like arseholes.

I am not an arsehole driver, i have never managed to run anyone over by accident or on purpose.

It doesn't however change the fact the highway code quite clearly backs up my opinion that i expressed in the second post on this thread that pedestrians shouldn't walk behind a reversing vehicle.

MrsBertMacklin Sun 06-Oct-13 11:47:58

I don't like it when drivers flash their lights to say 'thank you' - weirdly enough, I prefer not being dazzled. I know they mean well but it often not a great idea.

A quick blip of the lights as they're driving past is nice, but the ones who go at their full beams like they're operating a lighthouse; THANKS FOR BLINDING ME.

BringBackBod Sun 06-Oct-13 12:00:42

Wow. There's so much love on this thread between motorists and pedestrians isn't there smile

I'm a pedestrian, and like to think that I'm pretty careful. some roads can be tricky to negotiate though, and that's where the problems usually happen.
It can be quite daunting crossing a road sometimes. Most of us just want to do it safely.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 06-Oct-13 12:01:00

I don't often wave to thank drivers at the zebra crossing near work as I am too busy checking for cyclists who tend to whizz over it and almost hit me (one has once and one nearly has)

That's if I am not busy trying to avoid the three children aged about 3 5 and 7 that their mum lets cycle full speed along the pavement every bloody morning way ahead of her.

Sorry cyclists..you are mostly decent but I live and work near quite a.few inconsiderate ones.

Im sure most of you are lovely though.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 06-Oct-13 12:02:16

The mum of the three kids looks like an MNetter.

If you do this and are in Edinburgh please stop it as one of your kids will hit someone one day and get hurt themselves too.

WMittens Sun 06-Oct-13 12:03:57

then perhaps people shouldn't go around calling me a cunt for pointing out what the highway code actually states.

Knowing what the HC says is one thing, knowing the specific meanings of "should" and "MUST" when used in the HC is another. Only entries with "MUST" are legally enforceable; other wordings may be used to establish liability, but are not mandatory.

We did see them sometimes, WMittens - though not often, I must admit!

FrightRider Sun 06-Oct-13 12:16:36

mittens, the only one 'should' came into it was the one about cyclists riding two abreast around a corner.

Point 15 only says

##############

Rules for pedestrians (1 to 35)
2. Crossing the road (7 to 17)

15
Reversing vehicles. Never cross behind a vehicle which is reversing, showing white reversing lights or sounding a warning.

###############

There is no 'should' or 'must' to argue about. It quite clearly states 'NEVER'

Never does not mean carry on walking behind a reversing vehicle. it means dont do it.

FrightRider Sun 06-Oct-13 12:21:02

and it still doesn't excuse the fact that inabeautifulplace called me a cunt for pointing it out.

limitedperiodonly Sun 06-Oct-13 12:40:04

I'd take 'never' cross behind a reversing vehicle to be a bit like look both ways before crossing the road or never stick your fingers in plug sockets.

More intended as sensible advice than punishable by law if you get it wrong.

WMittens Sun 06-Oct-13 13:04:31

FrightRider

There is no 'should' or 'must' to argue about. It quite clearly states 'NEVER'

Never does not mean carry on walking behind a reversing vehicle. it means dont do it.

I know, but if you read the introduction to the HC, the legal requirements are identified by "Must" or "Must Not" - so there is no legal requirement for pedestrians to comply.

insancerre Sun 06-Oct-13 13:07:11

if it was the law for pedestrians then it would say you must never , wouldn't it?

AnneTwacky Sun 06-Oct-13 13:36:05

I think IamMiranda's posts have been taken entirely the wrong way. She was just saying we all have to take some responsibility for our own safety.
She wasn't saying that cyclists and motorists don't have an obligation to give way to pedestrians on the road but if someone was distracted or not concentrating the outcome would be worse for the pedestrian so we still need to be aware when crossing.
I don't believe that there's one particular group of road users who are inherently worse than the others but there are times when people aren't paying attention or think they can get away with not doing what they know they should. Which is why every one of us needs to put being careful above our right of way.

UptheChimney Sun 06-Oct-13 17:06:36

I'd take 'never' cross behind a reversing vehicle to be a bit like look both ways before crossing the road or never stick your fingers in plug sockets

Well quite.

I wouldn't read that extract from the HC as stating that it is illegal for pedestrians to walk behind a reversing car. It's common sense not to, but it doesn't say that the car has right of way. As I have always understood it (and confirmed by police officers I've spoken to about this) a pedestrian has right of way.

Mainly because a car can do so much more damage. Common sense as well as the Highway Code.

ErrolTheDragon Mon 07-Oct-13 10:40:29

Maybe Rule 1 of the Highway Code, applicable to everyone on roads and pavements should be:

'You must behave with courtesy and consideration for other users of the road/pavement at all times'.

VivaLeThrustBadger Mon 07-Oct-13 10:59:14

Afaik there is no requirement for pedestrians to read the Highway Code and I suspect most of them haven't. Same could be said for cyclists probably. grin

Drivers are in charge of heavy, fast, potentially lethal machines. I do think therefore drivers have a responsibility to other users regardless of whether its their right to carry on reversing or not. As a driver it boils my piss when I'm reversing and people keep on jumping off the pavement and walking behind my car. But I creep along slowly, stopping where necessary to ensure I don't hit anyone. Even though I feel like winding the window down and asking them if they have a death wish. smile

Maybe if I hit someone I'd be able to defend myself saying I was reversing and they shouldn't have walked out behind me when I'd started reversing. Maybe the police would agree it wasn't my fault. But that wouldn't make me feel any better if someone was Hurt.

MinesAPintOfTea Mon 07-Oct-13 11:09:20

Bodicea do you acknowledge every driver who stops for you at a give-way line or entry to a roundabout when you have priority?

limitedperiodonly Mon 07-Oct-13 12:24:05

DH hit a woman who had crossed his half of the road and was waiting in the middle for the traffic to pass.

As he drove past, she stepped back into his car. She was seriously hurt.

There was an investigation and he wasn't charged because it was her fault. It didn't make him feel any better though. He doesn't blame her because we've all done it, and she was punished enough.

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