EDL....

(662 Posts)
DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:41:17

I am a regular who has name changed for this thread.

I would like to have a discussion about EDL. I want to know exactly why people find them so abhorrent and why it is such a taboo subject.

I dislike militant Islam, it is a dangerous movement and it really frightens me. A family friend was killed in 9/11 and it was a horrible horrible tragedy.

I have two mixed race children, my DH is mixed race, I would not say I'm racist or xenophobic.

As far as I can gather EDL oppose militant Islam, and this alone.

Why does this make them racist? Surely militant Islam, although a very small proportion of Islam, should be opposed?

mrsjay Sun 29-Sep-13 11:49:19

EDL are facist and a bit thick tbh they pray on innocent people and think they represent the working man they do not, and I applaud help for heros who refuse to take funds from them and any support , if you look at EDL members you will see they are tattoed fuckwits who cant string a sentence together and are in fact very racist wrapping it up as patrotism , (sp)

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:52:40

Do people dislike them so much because of how their supporters look, i.e tattooed thugs?

What is facist about them? Does opposing militant Islam make someone facist?

I genuinely want to know, am I missing something?

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:53:59

Another question, do people think it's racist when The Tories or Labour oppose militant Islam?

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 11:54:11

they are anti Islam full stop - which is why they oppose the building of mosques etc - not just anti militancy - most Muslims are anti militant Islam - but the EDL are anti Muslim full stop

Sirzy Sun 29-Sep-13 11:54:17

It's nothing to do with how they look and everything to do with their attitudes and how they try to get their views across.

Hubb Sun 29-Sep-13 11:54:37

Having mixed race children and DH doesn't prove you're not racist or xenophobic by the way. Bringing it up as if it somehow adds to your point makes me very suspicious of you.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 11:55:33

what makes them fascist is that they want to stop a whole section of society having religious freedom

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 11:55:58

The edl don't just oppose 'militant Islam'. They hate Muslims full stop. Five minutes on any of their Facebook pages will tell you that and that they all have the literacy skills of a slug

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 11:56:20

they also have links with much more militant right wing groups such as C18

mrsjay Sun 29-Sep-13 11:56:41

I only said about the tattoed fuckwittery because that is what they are like it doesn't matter what they look like their ideas are insane nick griffin wears a lovely suit doesn't make me want to support him either this is nothing to do with militant islam and everything to do with all of islamic culture

Well think about the name - English defense league- what is the suggestion here? English people (whites only) are being attacked by 'other' and need protecting.

Is this what you think?

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:57:51

What is c18?!

Wannabestepfordwife Sun 29-Sep-13 11:58:00

I live near the birthplace of the edl and my hometown has an ever increasing number of supporters for them.

My hometown was pretty much desimated by EU rulings, there's one of the highest youth unemployment rates, high rates of drug and alcohol dependency and high levels of mental illness. My dsb is doing an electrician course at college but there is one apprenticeship out of 175 students.

For alot of WWC males from my hometown the services is their best hope of employment so they felt Lee Rigby's death as personal.

I can to some extent understand their appeal but some kids on my estate racially abuse my Pakistani neighbours and use chanting edl as a form of intimidation which is disgusting.

I think their main appeal is no political party speaks to the genuine wc anymore so the edl speaks to people who feel forgotten and ignored

mrsjay Sun 29-Sep-13 11:59:45

as an asid I just discovered there is a Scottish defence league they were on STV news the other week at some rally I was horrified it is spreading

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 12:00:50

I know plenty of 'Tattooed thugs' trust are neither Racist or Thugs .

As for the EDL oppose militant Islam, and this alone , Does that mean what Hitler did was ok then because it was only against 'The Jews' angry

biscuit biscuit biscuit

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:02:00

Thisisaeuphemism - Well, I would say English people (not whites only) already have been attacked by 'other' (people opposing the UK) in the 7/7 tragedy.

We protecting to some extent, not sure how the EDL plan to do this though, hopefully our government have it under control.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:03:15

headsspinningforachange - Do you think opposing militant Islam (not Islam in general) makes you akin to a nazi?

Sirzy Sun 29-Sep-13 12:04:04

But dandy most of the people the EDL are trying to "protect" is from where as disgusted and appaulded by what happened at 7/11 as the rest of the population.

Would you support people who were anti Irish because of the damage done by the IRA?

Wannabestepfordwife Sun 29-Sep-13 12:05:10

Tbh I think it proved how out of touch politicians are when people like the edl are growing in support it would have been unthinkable 10 years ago

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:06:01

So from what I can gather, people despise the EDL because they feel they are anti-Islam in general, rather than anti-militant Islam?

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 12:06:28

trust That

Also I Dislike the Edl because they are racist morons to put it simply , I have been on plenty Anti Edl marches & have seen plenty of EDL members that look like ordinary buisness men so you definitely can't label everybody with Tattoos 'an edl thug'

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:08:46

headsspinningforachange - but what is it that makes you think they are racist morons? I have never been to a march so have no idea what happens. I did see a militant Islam march on a TV documentary and it was pretty shocking. They were shouting "UK go to hell", it was scary.

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 12:12:05

Dandy If the EDL could have their own version of Concentration Camps they would so yes they are not to dissimilar to the Nazi regime .
The EDL groups i have come across are against All Muslims not just Militant Islamists .

NotDavidTennant Sun 29-Sep-13 12:13:33

"Tbh I think it proved how out of touch politicians are when people like the edl are growing in support it would have been unthinkable 10 years ago"

Ten years ago the BNP were riding high. And before the BNP we had the National Front. There have always been far right groups on the fringes of UK politics. Fortunately they have always been (and hopefully always be) rejected by the vast majority of people in this country.

sparklekitty Sun 29-Sep-13 12:13:36

It's all of Islam they oppose. They also assume that all Muslims believe in radical versions of Islam.

They also attack mosques.

It's not just militant Islam they hate, it's all Muslims, that's what makes them fascist, and also seems to be what you are mistaken about.

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 12:14:35

I don't Think they are Racist I know they are they make it blatantly obvious when I have seen them marching , in their publications, FB & Twitter.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:14:38

Who did the national front oppose?

mrsjay Sun 29-Sep-13 12:20:53

know plenty of 'Tattooed thugs' trust are neither Racist or Thugs

what i said had nothing to do with people with tattoos

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 12:21:42

Those militabt Muslims who you saw marching and shouting 'uk go to hell' and those who go on edl marches calling for a ban on Burkas whilst wearing balaclavas themselves (lol!) - they are of exactly the same ilk, just part of different groups.

Weeantwee Sun 29-Sep-13 12:21:48

I think you have to stand by and witness an EDL march go by in your hometown to get a real sense of what they are like. The reason they come across to people as racist is that they are uneducated, loud mouthed and generally offensive to anyone who looks different to them, I.e. Not Caucasian.

When they walked through my hometown all the local lads told them to go back to their own country. The EDL were walking through a Welsh town waving the St George flag.

mrsjay Sun 29-Sep-13 12:22:11

EDL have told whole town on their rallys that they have to stand up against sharia law because that is what the country is coming too,

NotDavidTennant Sun 29-Sep-13 12:24:43

The National Front believed (and still do I think) in white superiority and campaigned for the removal of all non-white immigrants from the country.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 12:26:49

Why do you feel the need to name change if they are your opinions?

So you believe your husband and children are attacking you? You do know they wouldn't be 'safe' under edl protection?

Btw no one likes terrorists. Do you think the edl has a monopoly on horror at events like 7/7 or lee rigbys death? Do you think everyone else just thinks 'ah that's fine'?

hiddenhome Sun 29-Sep-13 12:30:25

I dislike militant islam. My mixed race friend who is a Christian minister is regularly verbally abused in the street by muslim people who are unpleasant towards Christians. She feels frightened and intimidated.

The EDL are just fascist thugs. Militant islamics are no different. Each as bad as the other imo.

mrsjay Sun 29-Sep-13 12:31:40

I agree with you Hiddenhome each as bad

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:34:57

hiddenhome - where does your friend live? I have never witnessed racial abuse of either 'side' in RL. Has she reported it?

OddBoots Sun 29-Sep-13 12:35:43

Fighting one flavour of extremism with another just causes destruction. It makes it hard to have the conversations so needed in a community because it is made to be a 'one or the other' conversation instead of a much wider discussion.

FirstStopCafe Sun 29-Sep-13 12:36:09

I have unfortunately witnessed a few EDL marches in my home town. They were scary and intimidating and sang racist songs.

I have also seen racist comments made by edl members on Twitter and Facebook. I think they are abhorrent and try to gain membership by scaremongering and spreading false stories. A 'friend' on fb once shared a video being publicised by the edl that was apparently showing the police arresting a white woman simply for carrying an English flag. This was being used to stir up racist feelings about not being our country anymore etc. A quick Google and look at the statement provided by the relevant police force showed that the story being told was completely untrue and had been twisted to try and suit their agenda

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 12:41:16

Sorry Mrsjay I read that bit wrong <puts glasses on>

I have a Muslim friend who lives in the West End of Newcastle. He and his children have twice been surrounded by EDL members in the street, threatening them. Every member of his family has been attacked at one time or another - his parents, his sisters. His children are disabled but that didn't stop the EDL tormenting them. They're just an ordinary family - not extremists.

But I've a feeling nothing's going to change your mind, OP hmm

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 12:45:49

dandy can you answer my question about name changing? Are you a journalist

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:47:31

tallwivglasses - I don't have my mind mad up that EDL are a good thing, why do you think that?

I want to know why people hate them so much. The only information I have about EDL is from their website, it says they only oppose militant Islam, which the vast majority of people also oppose.

I wanted to understand more about why there is so much tension.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:50:10

noddyholder - I name changed because it is such a hated topic and I didn't want to get labelled a racist or a facist. I want to understand the whole thing better but in past threads people really get flamed.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 12:59:11

But yes, I do feel a little more informed now

OP have a look at this site. It should give you an idea about the real people who are in the EDL and the kind of opinions they have.

The stories under the 'most read' and 'most commented' sections may especially 'interesting' reading

edlnews.co.uk/

*make

Sallyingforth Sun 29-Sep-13 13:22:52

DandyFloss
Are you by any chance making excuses for the EDL?
I notice you used their phrase "militant Islam" three times in your first post, and again several times later. Yet we all know that in practice they are against all of Islam.

The EDL? Pfft. Their Web site is as poorly spelt and punctuated as much of this thread.

If I ever vote, it will be for someone who understands the beauty of a perfectly placed apostrophe.

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 13:30:05

So if my Chef who is Indian but actually a Roman Catholic wants to go on an EDL march he can? Can join in and nip in the pub for a drink with them? If he wandered into a group of them in the night he would be totally safe from a beating because they would thoroughly check he was "militant islamic" before attacking like the rapid dogs they are?

No he wouldn't he would be intimidated, abused and if they could get away with it killed because 8HIS SKIN IS BROWN*.

Thats why I hate them, because they make me terrified for my innocent children that a person could look upon their cute, open, welcoming faces with hatred because their skin is olive.

The same way my MIL felt when she had a baby in a pram and was begging the skinheads to take the knife away from DHs head (aged 5) in the park while they laughed at her tears, a woman who would hate to see Sharia Law and all her freedoms removed be implemented in this country.

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 13:31:53

Fuck why did I get drawn in, its such a beautiful day.

<<shuts mumsnet>>

FreudiansSlipper Sun 29-Sep-13 13:36:14

yes the increasing hold that some militant islamic groups have needs to be addressed and it is, it is worrying

it is not to be used by racist people as an agenda for their support of a racist political group to hide behind

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 13:43:42

you are joking. Op you need to do your research. I am mixed race (black / white) and I have been racially abused by EDL.. So Op yes they are a bunch of racist, thick, violent idiots.

They are as bad and racist as Nazis, NF, KKK, BNP etc. You really need to do your research Op.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 13:44:35

The EDL have held a few marches in the towns near where I live, and they received lots of support from the locals (cars pipping, people wishing them well etc).

There was no trouble, and so the marches were largely ignored by the media. This made people suspicious of a cover-up by the Establishment, because they only seem to report arrests, and seem to try to pass off UAF arrests as EDL ones.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 13:47:22

It really takes very little research to discover that the EDL claim that they are only anti militant Islam is an outright lie. They are unquestionably a despicable bunch of violent racist thugs.

VioletHunter Sun 29-Sep-13 13:54:24

I don't know about EDL, but the National Front also support capital and corporal punishment (flogging) and believe a woman's place is at home with the children.

EauRouge Sun 29-Sep-13 13:55:52

You haven't done much research, OP. Do a bit of reading up on their leader, Tommy Robinson AKA Stephen Yaxley-Lennon AKA Andrew McMaster AKA Paul Harris AKA whatever name he picks next. I wonder why he needs that many names....?

They are as bad and racist as Nazis, NF, KKK, BNP etc.

You're embarrassing yourself.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 14:24:33

themalt. Please explain, why am I embarrassing myself?

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 14:25:26

Sallyingforth - I used the term 'militant Islam' because that is the phrase they use. No we don't all know that they are against all of Islam in practice. I have no experience of the EDL, I have never seen a march and don't know anyone who supports them, which is why I ask. I'm not making excuses for anyone. Why are you being so defensive?

DontPanicMrMannering - From what I have just read, one of their main members is/was Indian.

I've just watched a march on youtube and it looked quite intimidating.

pianodoodle Sun 29-Sep-13 14:29:23

They are dangerously stupid and ignorant.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 14:34:10

So is everyone who attends an EDL rally automatically a thug? Many locals where I live marched along with them because of the muslim grooming gangs which the police were doing nothing about.

Sallyingforth Sun 29-Sep-13 14:37:42

Dandy I'm not being defensive as you put it, quite the opposite in fact - I'm being offensive as far as the EDL/NF/etc is concerned.

Your postings are very similar to others I have seen on web forums that so innocently ask why people are being beastly to those nice EDL guys.

There is plenty of information on the web about EDL activities, but you only want to talk about the extreme Islamic elements you have seen.

That's why I'm suspicious about your motives.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 14:41:48

Calling everyone who's ever attended an EDL rally a thug is like calling all muslims terrorists. It risks alienating people who are trying to be heard in a lawful way.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 14:45:01

Sallyingforth - I really hate the way as soon as someone brings up a contentious topic and asks why people feel the way they do about it there is always someone who thinks they have 'suspicious' motives.

Is it that bad to want to get a better understanding of it? I wanted to ask on here, because MNetters have strong opinions about the EDL.

Yes I could do my own research, but I am lazy and would rather ask people directly than scroll through webpages.

It really pisses me off, not once have I said I support the EDL or think they are 'nice'. The reason I want to talk about the extreme Islamic elements is because obviously that is who the EDL say they oppose!

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 14:46:54

They are thugs

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 14:47:55

but people have told you that they oppose Islam full stop - and you are ignoring them

ohmymimi Sun 29-Sep-13 14:54:53

You are being naive, OP, if you think the EDL only oppose militant Islam and is not a racist organisation.

I support the rightful EDL - English Disco Lovers. 'Don't hate, Gyrate!'

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 14:58:06

Ohmymimi yeaaaa... grin. A link below for those that want to check them out!

https://www.facebook.com/englishdiscolovers

crescentmoon Sun 29-Sep-13 14:58:24

Its not even just about targetting all muslims rather than 'militants'. if i took off my headscarf and DH shaved off his beard to walk next to a crowd of EDL protesters we'd still be subject to abuse. Because its the skin We're in that they realy hate - its not like a banker walking past an anti capitalist protesters. i can change my clothing But i can't pull my colour off me.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 14:58:38

gordyslovesheep - I'm not ignoring them, I have listened and accepted that they likely do. Why do you say I'm ignoring them?

OddBoots Sun 29-Sep-13 15:00:39

AdventureTed, that's exactly the problem, there are some serious situations about which discussions are needed but the EDL paint thing as so polarised that normally good people feel that marching with a far right group is the answer.

Grooming isn't a specifically Islamic problem but there are a tiny number of Muslims who groom, the majority of Muslims are disgusted by that and want to work to stop it and they are more likely to be successful than a group of glory-hunting thugs. When the EDL use the situation to march and cause more anger then where does that leave the innocent Muslims (and all those with friendships with Muslims and anyone who is mistaken for a Muslim)?

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:06:51

Last night my partner was aggressively threatened by an edl member. They are racist thugs.
They oppose extremism by being extremists themselves!
The idea of militant Islamic extremism is almost entirely created by the press . You do not need to be scared!

nonmifairidere Sun 29-Sep-13 15:07:01

AdventureTed, don't hide behind your balaclava, you are an EDL supporter. A bit of stealth propaganda , eh? Fail.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 15:08:25

Crescentmoon - many non-muslims are aware that they are regarded as kufar by many muslims, no matter how lovely the non-muslims are.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:09:12

What's kufar?

ohmymimi Sun 29-Sep-13 15:09:24

Big thanks, Little pea, my IT skills are a bit rudimentary.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 15:12:41

because you keep saying they are against extremism - which is incorrect

I am not sure you aren't being deliberately obtuse

LittleTulip Sun 29-Sep-13 15:13:42

Whilst we're on the subject..

Muslamic Ray Guns

Mosques in Mecca

blush
grin

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:14:12

gordyslovesheep - I am saying that they are saying they are against extremism, which is correct! That's exactly what they say!

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 15:14:59

No we don't all know that they are against all of Islam in practice

You can only fail to know that if you never read or listen to the news, never keep your eyes and ears open to what is going on around you, and never bother to do any investigation. You have been told through four pages of this thread that they are against all Islam, and indeed against all people of a different skin colour, yet you still claim that you don't "know" those facts. If you won't accept it from people on here, just go and look at their website, Google the many aliases of Tommy Robinson, look at the vile Twitter feeds and Facebook pages of their most well-known supporters. But, whatever you do, stop denying the flaming obvious.

Buttercup4 Sun 29-Sep-13 15:15:21

OP, the problem is that the EDL do not publicly admit their views. I've watched a 25 minute interview with their leader 'Tommy Robinson' real name Stephen Yaxeley-Lennon and he didn't come across as racist in any way, he came across as well rehearsed and PR prepped. He used emotive language to coerce people into believing that he is only looking out for the greater good of England.

Unfortunately, some people will watch that interview and support the EDL because he didn't express any openly racist views.

Watch EDL matches on YouTube that haven't been posted by the EDL. Do not believe their propaganda that they are only against 'militant islamics' it is simply not true. It's just what they want you to believe to gain your support and enter into mainstream politics and provide their group with some credibility.

Sallyingforth Sun 29-Sep-13 15:16:49

I wanted to ask on here, because MNetters have strong opinions about the EDL.
So you know already that MNetters have strong opinions about the EDL.
That means you have read previous discussions here about them.
And yet, you name-change to ask rather naive questions in order to start up yet another discussion. You know it can only repeat the very same opinions that you have already read and stir up yet more controversy. Sounds like a typical EDL ploy to me. I'm out.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 15:17:36

ohmymimi you are welcome. grin

MrsDeVere Sun 29-Sep-13 15:18:09

I am astounded that anyone with a mixed race child would support the EDL.

One of these days it could be your child having the shit kicked out of them by Tommy the Cunt and his little friends.

For being brown.

Get a hold of yourself OP and stop letting your child down.

YOU are supposed to protect them. Not support those who hate them

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:18:10

nennypops - Oh my god, are you serious?! Have you actually read the thread?! I have absolutely accepted what I have read on the thread, I feel much more informed. I have said I didn't know much about EDL, I asked and now I know more now. What do you think I am denying?! hmm

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:20:07

MrsDeVere - Seriously, I have never said I support the EDL, I wanted to understand more, and now I am suddenly letting my children down and failing to protect them, wtf?!

crescentmoon Sun 29-Sep-13 15:21:04

How a mosque in bull lane, Yorkshire dealt with EDL protesters:

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 15:21:09

Dandy - don't accept anything anyone has said on here, including me. Do your own research.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:21:35

Sallyingforth - And my opinions are what exactly?!

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:21:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:23:20

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LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 15:23:25

TBH Op as stated before I am mixed race. I have to admit I am appalled to read that you are too lazy (as you put it) to do your research when you are the mother to mixed race children!

MrsDeVere Sun 29-Sep-13 15:24:15

You have a black child and you are asking all wide eyed on MN 'what is wrong with the EDL'

Do me a favour love. hmm

It takes five minutes of googling to find out whats wrong with the EDL.

FYI they LIE, a LOT.

LittleTulip Sun 29-Sep-13 15:24:36

Oh dear flafla I really can't even get past your first sentence. Stand up to 'Muslims'?

biscuit

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 15:24:51

Xpost Princess

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:25:53

When a couple of Muslim men burnt poppies in London a few years ago it led to a 'protest' in Portsmouth by the edl against Portsmouth's mosque. The Muslims of Portsmouth had NOTHING to do with what went on in London but the edl somehow thought they could gain retribution from attacking them.
The edl graffitied the mosque and then protested outside the mosque. They were throwing rocks and small homemade bombs at elderly people and children coming out the mosque, they were performing the nazi salute and screaming racist abuse. My partner was part of the counter protest by UAF who were trying to protect the mosque and many people were badly injured by the edl members. It was awful.
They are racist and promote violence. Look up edl red watch its a site where they list all their enemies, it's terrifying! They need to be stopped, I want an equal Britain not one where ordinary people are scared of walking the streets for fear of being assaulted by racists.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:25:59

LittlePeaPod - My children are not Muslim, from what I understood, EDL are against Islam extremism. I have no experience of the EDL, have never seen a march or met a supporter.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 15:27:33

Flaflafla: why on earth does anyone need to "stand up to Muslims" any more than they need to stand up to Protestants, Roman Catholics, Buddhists, Jews, Hindi, Sikhs, Seventh Day Adventists, Scientologists, Atheists or anyone else? What we need to stand up to is criminals, whatever their religion, and you simply cannot claim that all members of any one religion are more guilty of serious crime than members of any other.

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 15:28:03

Calling everyone who's ever attended an EDL rally a thug is like calling all muslims terrorists

What bollocks. The whole point of joining a group like the edl is that they share a very specific view, which is that they don't want Muslims in this country. As I said before t is obvious from spending just a few minutes on one of their Facebook pages that it is not just 'militant' Muslims they are targeting. If you did not want to be associated with such cuntiness then you would never join in the first place.

crescentmoon Sun 29-Sep-13 15:28:37

Here's how you can tell its about race:

if my white anglo Muslim friend takes off her headscarf she has a much greater chance of passing by an EDL crowd and go about her business than i doing the same.

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:28:45

MrsDeVere - Please don't call me 'love', I find it patrionsing.

LittleTulip Sun 29-Sep-13 15:29:05

Thants.
It is correct that most EDL matches have at least a few Nazi salutes.

Is this enough of a reason OP?

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:29:32

Flaflafla. We do not need protecting from Muslims, what an absurd thing to say. Nothing 'needs to be done' expect the edl to fuck off. You are clearly a bigot who knows nothing about Islam or the edl.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 15:30:28

you are behaving very oddly - are you just going to keep saying the same thing ? you have been give many examples of what the EDL really stand for - and Mrs DV has a bloody good point

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 15:30:55

If you read my post you would know I am not Muslim and I am mixed (black/white) and I have been racially abused by EDL. So many people have told you this but you aren't listening.

So you are either not interested in hearing people or you set this thread up to wind MNers up.

Starting to wonder if this thread should be lovebombed ladies?!

MrsDeVere Sun 29-Sep-13 15:31:20

I will put it simply for you then OP.
The EDL are racists.
They have links to far right groups all over the world.
I do believe that people who are genuinely concerned about extremism join the EDL but if they are not racist they leave pretty quickly.

You have a mixed race child.

The EDL think your child is a N*** and that you are a N*** lover.

They don't care that your child is not a muslim. If your child is brown they don't like him/her.

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 15:31:46

OP, are you really that fucking lazy that you are interested in a subject, feel you don't know much about it, and can't be bothered to google it? Really? confused

Or, are some have suspected, are you just trying to provoke more controversy?

MrsDeVere Sun 29-Sep-13 15:33:04

I don't allow racists to tell me what to do, Love.
Particularly those raising black children.
Hun. x

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 15:33:25

EDL oppose all people who aren't British and white and also Jews.

Think that about covers it.

They are using the whole 'militant Muslim' thing as a front to whip up support through fear and ignorance.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:33:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 15:35:36

flaflafla and what has Christianity tried to do for hundreds of years? Here have a biscuit

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:36:12

Sorry but I think that Muslims are a problem. They have an aim of spreading the Muslim faith all over the world and increasing it's influence everywhere. This is not good for non Muslims and people who disagree with what it stands for. The most free countries in the world are all non-Muslim, even countries like Turkey and Morocco that are relatively free by Muslim standards are still very restrictive and repressed by western standards. It saddens me to see women in Britain walking around in a burka, and to see British schools feeding children the "Halal" meat.

biscuit biscuit biscuit biscuit biscuit

You're posts are so ignorant, why don't you spout your uneducated racist views views elsewhere?

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 15:36:44

Your views are repulsive, flaflafla

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 15:36:44

Fla, do you have a problem with Christian missionaries, working around the world, spreading the word of Jesus?

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:37:00

Oops the extra 'views' in that post was unneeded, much like you flaflafla

DandyFloss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:39:05

MrsDeVere - What a fucking ridiculous post, how dare you?

LittlePeaPodWhere & gordyslovesheep - Where have I said I have not accepted anything anyone has said? Can you show me because I DON'T KNOW.. As far as I'm concerned I have accepted what I have learned from this thread, and that yes, the EDL are racist, but clearly you know better...?

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 15:39:06

flaflafla Most,if not,all religions want to spread the word and their faith and spreading their word...not just Muslims (JW?).

As for being saddened by seeing women walking around wearing burkas..I am fucking livid about people in a Spurs tshirt...but they you go. Takes everyone to make a world.

Sallyingforth Sun 29-Sep-13 15:39:17

The worms are now crawling out of the woodwork, and the thread is heading in its intended direction...

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 15:39:31

FlaFlaFla: did you know that less that 1% of terrorist attacks in Europe over the last few years have involved Muslims? Why does something have to be done about Muslims rather than anyone else?

Caoimhe Sun 29-Sep-13 15:40:09

MrsDeVere has hit the nail on the head with her post at 15:31:20.

Actually I think the OP is just goading as her responses are more than a little odd.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:41:06

I have a good education thank you, a university degree, maybe not from a top university but still.

It seems that "educated" means in favour of Islam, I do not think that is the case. I live in Lancashire and there is a lot of conflict here between white British people and Muslims, and all too often, the authorities seem to side with the Muslims. My family are in the meat trade and the contracts for schools have all been handed over to Muslim butchers so that schools all have Halal meat, parents have not been consulted about this.

MrsDeVere Sun 29-Sep-13 15:42:00

How dare I what?

Stop it.
Just stop it.

Everybody knows what the EDL are about. Why start this ridiculously disingenuous thread?

How fucking dare YOU not be more aware for the sake of your child.

You have responsibilities. Live up to them.

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:42:54

Flaflafla. Muslims are not a problem. You are reading to much right wing press which only reports on Muslims and silences violence by whites. There is an agenda!
Yes certain countries run by sharia law are violent and oppressive but that's not the Muslim faith causing that, it's corrupt and violent government. Hitler and stalin were not Muslim yet obviously commited huge human right violations. North Korea is not a Muslim country but people who live there suffer horrifically under the government.
Religion is not the problem it is the way it is used. Evil people will use any means to oppress.
And again the edl are not even helping people who are oppressed they are making it worse by segregating us further!

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 15:43:00

Unfortunately, having a university degree does not prevent you from being a horrible racist, flaflafla

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 15:43:52

no educated means not anti something simply because it's not what YOU believe

meat is meat ffs - Muslim children have as much right as anyone else to a school meal they can eat

this thread is strange

Caoimhe Sun 29-Sep-13 15:44:10

Dandy, your post of 15:39 is the first time you've acknowledged that the EDL are racist. Your previous posts have just wittered on about what you don't know (so have appeared to be goading).

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 15:44:19

It seems that "educated" means in favour of Islam, I do not think that is the case

No "educated" means having the sense and ability to inform yourself of the facts, and not abusing the adherents of an entire religion on the basis of blind prejudice.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 15:46:43

I'd saying being educated has nothing to do with degrees. An educated person would not hate a whole group of people because of their religion. An educated person is not a mindless bigot.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:52:04

I object to being called a racist. And a mindless bigot for that matter. It takes guts to go against the grain and stand up for what you believe in. Anyone can go along with the crowd. I am sure plenty of people just do it for an easy life even if they have misgivings about Muslims.

I don't hate Muslims. But I do have misgivings about them.

There is nothing stopping Muslim children eating normal non-halal meat, other than religious beliefs.

I know nothing about the EDL other than what I read or see on the news. I do not take anything I read or see on TV for granted, it all has some kind of spin to it.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 15:54:07

all Muslims ???? what every single one??? unless you have MET them all Flaflafla then you are nothing but a bigot

SpookyNameChange13 Sun 29-Sep-13 15:55:15

My god.

I agree with everything MrsDevere has said.

OP, has this issue not cropped up for you before now?

Do some research fgs.

EDL use the issue of 'militant' muslims to paki bash, that is what this all is, many of their members are tired, fat football hooligans who due to thuggery have been given bans from football matches,. this is their latest passtime and excuse to be violent.

They are racists. End of.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:55:59

I object to being called a racist. And a mindless bigot for that matter

Maybe you shouldn't express racist views then?!

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:56:00

Have you met every member of the EDL? It seems generalising is fine but only one way.

SpookyNameChange13 Sun 29-Sep-13 15:57:01

I know nothing about the EDL other than what I read or see on the news. I do not take anything I read or see on TV for granted, it all has some kind of spin to it

Ive seen them in action. No 'spin'

They are racist thugs.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:57:22

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 15:58:23

No, flaflafla, you are not "entitled" to express racist views in the UK. Thankfully, that is a legal offense.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 15:58:55

My dd met quite a few at an anti EDL rally - she said they were doing Nazi salutes and chanting racist crap about people 'going home'.

I've met tonnes of Muslims and not one of them wants Sharia law in Britain or has any plans to bomb anywhere.

Expressing views which are racist makes you a racist. It's very simple.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 15:58:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

crescentmoon Sun 29-Sep-13 15:59:12

that reminds me of the 'creeping sharia' tweets awhile ago

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/apr/16/twitter-users-turned-on-english-defence-league

.. but on a serious note,

can i ask you fla, ted, OP, what do you think are the rights and responsibilities of a religious minority? how does it differ from the rights and responsibilities of an ethnic minority? i want you to be specific:

how many muslims are allowed to live near each other before its seen as us 'taking over',

how many muslims are allowed to go to the same school before it is seen as their 'taking over',

which one is more offensive? cities with multiple small mosques and small numbers of congregants - because they cant afford to build large...

or cities with large mosques for hundreds/thousands of muslims at a time,

actually how many people are allowed to pray at a mosque before it is seen as threatening?

how many children are muslims allowed to have before it is seen as 'too much',

how devout is too devout? keeping ramadan? praying? is it ok to keep those pillars or is that also seen as fundamentalist?

if it is it not enough not to break the law what is enough? be honest

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 15:59:23

You've seen "them" in action? All of "them"? Are "they" all the same? Who's being "racist" now. Of course you aren't being racist because EDL isn't a race.

I've no doubt that there are some racists in the EDL. But there are some racists in the Muslim faith as well. There are some racists in any kind of group of people you could name.

SpookyNameChange13 Sun 29-Sep-13 15:59:35

Ok, some know what they are about and are out and out racists.

Some think they know, but don't realise what they are actually about. They are just stupid thickos who need to do a bit more research before they affiliate themselves to a group like that.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 15:59:36

Fla, it is called inciting racial hatred and is an offence.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 15:59:39

Flaflafla: There is nothing stopping Muslim children eating normal non-halal meat, other than religious beliefs.

So what? How does it hurt you if Muslim children don't eat non-halal meat?

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:00:02

You can't make people shut up by calling them "racist" anymore. It doesn't work.

But that's the rub.....racists have never "shut up" when it comes to spouting their hatred

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:00:19

Some racists in the EDL? Their whole ethos is based on racism and bigotry.

SpookyNameChange13 Sun 29-Sep-13 16:01:12

Ok flaflafla you must be in the second group then.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 16:02:03

dandy what I know is you are a mother to mixed race children and you start a goading BS EDL thread and admit you can't be arsed to research a racist group.. Then you whinge about people's response to you. Here I gave a biscuit to Flaflafla the university educated EDL supporter now I think you need one. Here you go... biscuit

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:02:11

It would be absolute impossible to be anti-racist and a supporter of the EDL.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:03:44

sigh...no but every member of the EDL supports what the EDL stands for ergo - they are racist

Muslims follow Islam - aside from the one common factor they are as alike in thought and action as every other human on the planet

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:03:51

What about Muslims? They completely distinguish between Muslim and non Muslim. And men and women for that matter. It is a discriminatory religion.

How does it hurt Muslim children to eat non-Halal meat? Ot just eat vegetarian dishes at school?

Why should Muslims take priority when it comes to Halal vs non Halal?

Then there's the problem of school food contracts being given to Muslim firms almost entirely in some areas. This only causes resentment among people who's businesses suffer, many people find themselves out of work because of it. Is this a good thing?

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:04:10

absoluteLY, sorry.

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 16:06:48

flafla anders brevik murdered dozens of people partly in the name of Christianity. Deyan deyanov beheaded a woman in Tenerife and though he was the second coming of Christ. The westboro' baptist church..... Well they just behave like arseholes. Normal rational thinking people are not calling for the ousting of Christians for Christianity to be 'stood up to'. Why? Because they realise that it is a minority of Christians and most do not advocate that sort of behaviour. Why are you just singling out Islam as a religion that needs 'standing up to'?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:07:11

None of my Muslim friends care that I'm an atheist. And I am not bothered that they are Muslims. They are people, same as everyone else.

I can't believe a supposedly educated person cannot see that tarring a whole religion with one brush and spreading hate is totally racist and bigoted.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:07:19

It would be absolute impossible to be anti-racist and a supporter of the EDL.

I don't think this is right at all. If you joined, just to see, would you become a racist overnight?

Plenty of people just want to see this country kept decent, like it used to be. They aren't racist, they are just upset about how this country is changing for the worse. I know people that have been hounded out of their homes due to being white and living in a "Muslim area". It's not nice. I can't imagine any of the people on here knowing what it feels like to be forced out of an area you have lived in all of your life, and see what used to be nice streets fall into disrepair.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:07:51

you are clearly ignorant about all thing Muslim - which may explain you bigoted views

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 16:08:30

Flaflafla get a grip. Everyone in the food sector has to pitch for school contracts. Some win, some lose. It's all price driven and the buyers are all transactional buyers. It's not easy to win a school contract the buyers make the decision and the buyers make commercial decision. Here have another biscuit

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 16:09:36

Plenty of people just want to see this country kept decent, like it used to be

Flaflafla, what is this British golden age you're referring to? When was the country 'decent'?

Also, your casual equation of 'Muslim areas' with 'what used to be nice streets fall[ing] into disrepair is another marker of your horrid racist views.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:09:59

Are you being deliberately obtuse, Flafla? If you are a supporter of the EDL, that means you support them and their views. They are an extremely racist organisation. It follows that if you support them you must be a racist. Of course a non-racist can join the organisation (not that they would be welcomed) but joining is not the same as supporting.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:11:26

The post made by nennypops makes perfect sense.

SpookyNameChange13 Sun 29-Sep-13 16:11:56

If you joined, just to see, would you become a racist overnight?

Why the fuck would anyone with a brain cell do that?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:12:11

Decent? When was this? Which century? I think I missed it. confused

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:13:07

I am not that old, 37 next month, I am from Burnley, it was never the wealthiest place but it used to be decent and people took pride in their surroundings, the streets were clean, not full of litter. Now there are many areas that are just horrible, dirty, and they are predomininatly Muslim areas. That's not me being "racist", go there and take a look. Or look on google maps.

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:13:18

been hounded out of their homes due to being white and living in a "Muslim area". It's not nice. I can't imagine any of the people on here knowing what it feels like to be forced out of an area

Yes that's true...it is not nice. And I am sure over the decades the number of non-white people hounded out of their homes and areas by racists would echo that,too.

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 16:14:10

Flafla, Christianity (particularly Catholicism) discriminates between men and women. Thoughts?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:15:25

Fla, I suggest you get on to your local councillors if they are failing to keep the streets clean and do their duty.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:15:30

all the 'white Christian' areas of Burnley are spotless and bathed in a Hovis style half light are they? - yeh okay if you say so grin

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:15:49

So, fla...all this streetlitter and dirt is because of Muslims...along with your old man losing the catering contract and your extreme sadness at burka-wearing....anything else you wanna blame the Muslim community for whilst you're on a roll?

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 16:15:51

So nice streets have fallen into disrepair specifically because of Muslims? What?!

SpookyNameChange13 Sun 29-Sep-13 16:16:51

I can't imagine any of the people on here knowing what it feels like to be forced out of an area

Hmm, actually now you mention it...yes I do know how that feels.

I'll give you a clue though, it wasn't muslims hounding me out.

KnottyLocks Sun 29-Sep-13 16:17:19

The EDL have marched against the opening of a proposed Muslim school using the line 'they believe in integration'
Strangely they did not march against Catholic, C of E or private schools.

ohmymimi Sun 29-Sep-13 16:17:53

Flaflafla- please tell us what you mean by this country bring 'kept decent'.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:18:45

been hounded out of their homes due to being white and living in a "Muslim area". It's not nice. I can't imagine any of the people on here knowing what it feels like to be forced out of an area

Oh really??? I'm northern Irish with a Catholic father and a Protestant mother and grew up as a 'halfer' in a UVF ran area. I've had family petrol bombed out of their houses, threatened, tortured, I could go on. Do not presume to tell anyone that they have no idea what it's like to be ran out of an area.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 29-Sep-13 16:21:11
flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:22:25

Did you like it? Why do you expect other people to put up with it for fear of being called "racist" if they do say anything?

It is not nice to be woken up at 6am by two men you have never met before with £20,000 in cash in a carrier bag wanting to buy your house there and then.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:22:42

fla read back over your posts and then really honestly say you aren't racist. You sound absolutely confined by your small mindedness

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:23:23

Lol at Britain used to be decent! It's no different now! Well except most people have more freedom, which is positive! It's just the press are focusing on different issues. It's not real it's a created problem. And you are buying it!
Can you please explain in what way Britain is less decent now?

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:25:14

It is not nice to be woken up at 6am by two men you have never met before with £20,000 in cash in a carrier bag wanting to buy your house there and then

Wait...let me guess. Muslim...right?

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:25:19

If you don't live here it's very hard to understand what it's like.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:25:26

Did I like it? No.

Did I tar everyone who was Catholic and Protestant with the brush. NO

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:26:08

Flafla: It is not nice to be woken up at 6am by two men you have never met before with £20,000 in cash in a carrier bag wanting to buy your house there and then.

Come off it, you must know perfectly well that no-one can buy a house just by handing over cash on the doorstep. There are little matters like property deeds, land registration, stamp duty ...

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 16:26:44

Flaflafla can you please explain in what way Britain was more 'decent' in the past?

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:27:11

So when you see Britain you don't mean Britain you mean the one town that you live in. That does not represent the whole country.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:27:37

I have a lovely friend who lives near you and she fights tooth and nail against the hatred that the EDL incites.

It isn't Muslims inciting that hatred. It is other people who don't like people who are a different colour from them and who have a different religion.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:28:13

I am sure many of you live in leafy suburbs or exclusive gated communities down south, not the terraced streets of lancashire mill towns such as this. There is a real tension in the air at all times. It's not a surprise at all that there have been riots here and probably will be again. It is us that bare the brunt of immigration, and the south that gets the benefits of it.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:28:14

This is why I think the OP may be a journo fishing as no 'real' person with mixed race children would have anything but contempt for groups like the EDL and would have investigated this in relation to her children and their heritage eons ago

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:29:55

You and your ilk are creating that tension.

And no, I don't live in a leafy suburb. I live in a large Northern city with a vast array of different cultures and religions. We all seem to rub along very nicely though.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:29:57

It isn't Muslims inciting that hatred. It is other people who don't like people who are a different colour from them and who have a different religion.

Are you at least willing to accept that some Muslims are at fault? There are plenty of stories of people being attacked by Muslim gangs around here, including TV reporters reporting on the tensions in the area.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:31:22

No, I am willing to accept that some people are at fault. The fact that they might be Muslim is totally irrelevant.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:31:36

Sorry YouTheHat but I don't believe you. Where is this "northern city where people of all cultures and religions get along"? I don't know of it. Where is it?

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:31:37

No fla, I don't live in the leafy suburbs. I live in Finsbury Park, North London (google it in terms of Muslim community), and I don't spout all the woes of the area is the Muslim community to blame, like you seem to.

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 16:32:47

Criminal behaviour is criminal behaviour. Some Muslims are guilty of it, some Christians are guilty of it, some atheists are guilty of it, some Jews are guilty of it. Criminal behaviour, anti-social behaviour and littering are not the preserve of any one social or religious group.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:33:27

It's called Newcastle. You might have heard of it. I've never read of a single case of racially motivated crime in any of our papers. And I've lived here for 26 years.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:33:29

So a gang of Muslim men that harass women for being "indecently dressed" arent'y at fauly? What about gangs of men that abuse young girls? You think it's just a coincedence that a gang of 15 or more all just happen to be Muslim?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:34:42

Their religion is irrelevant. I've heard of plenty of white men doing just the same.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:34:46

Flafla, you still haven't managed to specify this time when the UK was "decent" despite several requests.

And are you at least willing to accept that some non-Muslims could be at fault in your area also?

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:34:53

Flafla. So how do you explain allllll the non Muslims that commit sex offences? I don't get your point.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:35:54

Isn't Newcastle predominantly white?

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:36:14

I lived Tysley/Sparkbrook for about 6 years before moving here - I work in Birmingham...no ivory tower here

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:36:15

Yes...just as I note that white middle-aged men and young men have been peadophile gangs. Coincidence. They are child groomers...end of.

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:36:53

It was decent when I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s. I'm sure some non-Muslims are at fault.

duchessandscruffy Sun 29-Sep-13 16:37:00

Are you at least willing to accept that some Muslims are at fault?

Erm yes of course, that's kind of the point. Its only a few muslims causi g this tension (in the same way that its only a few white people causing the tension). Who on here has suggested that all Muslims are saints?

Wannabestepfordwife Sun 29-Sep-13 16:37:19

flaflafla I haved lived in dewsbury and live near Luton now. Yes both areas have some extremists but the majority are law abiding citizens without an agenda.

I can understand feeling self-conscious and vulnerable when your different race and dressed differently to everyone around you but that's how it must feel all the time if your a minority it's sad

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:37:20

Round where I work there are several very unpleasant gangs that don't confine their activities to abusing groups of girls: instead they go in for organised crime, criminal assault and murder. They definitely aren't Muslim. Should I therefore condemn all non-Muslims in the way that you condemn all Muslims, Flafla?

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:38:29

And decent means less litter on the streets? Everyone idealises the past. Not an excuse for racism. I don't accept from the elderly and it's even more shocking fro. Someone so young

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:38:56

Is their being non-Muslim a contributing factor in the crimes they commit in the same way that it is for Muslim paedophile gangs that target non-Muslim (in almost all cases, white) girls?

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:38:58

fla you are equating 'predominantly white' with non muslim then? SO for you its about colour too

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:39:13

The fact that you have, flaflafla, in this thread, proclaimed that:
Your old man losing a contract
Dirty streets and litter
Cheap house offers
Child grooming gangs...

...are all because they were "muslim" shows you are....islamaphobic.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:39:18

of course I am willing to accept that 'some Muslims' are at fault ...because I view Muslims as individual human beings - and as individual human beings there will be good and bad and indifferent amoungst them

it's when you view 'Muslims' as some kind of borg - all the same, you begin to be racist

flaflafla Sun 29-Sep-13 16:39:53

I'm off to work now so I must end by contribution to this thread. Yes some of us have to work on Sundays, it isn't a day of leisure for all of us especially in the north of England.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:40:17

and there is plenty of evidence of Muslim 'gangs' targetting Muslim girls btw

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:40:24

It was decent when I was growing up in the 80s and early 90s.

Please tell me you aren't seriously trying to suggest there was no crime at that time and everyone lived in lovely clean streets with no litter? Because I was an adult in the 80s and 90s, I kept my eyes open, and I know different.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 16:40:38

Really oh it is in the south I am in a hammock here

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:41:03

No, Newcastle isn't predominantly white. There are very large amount of people from Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and China. Also plenty of foreign students who bring their families over while they study, many from African countries. Many Polish and Eastern European people. And a fair few come from Middle Eastern areas.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:41:35

arse, door,the, out, hit, way, your, on, the let, don't ...make a sentence...

londonrach Sun 29-Sep-13 16:41:52

Some parts of london are the same. You get the most amazing curry in bricklane. I love the edgie (sorry not sure how spelt) feel and seeing how the city changes, as it always had. I do have slight concerns since seeing what happened in kenya. Dont understand why kill children or woman or men.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 16:42:03

Come off it, Flafla, don't try and claim some sort of virtue because you work on a Sunday. Lots of Muslims work on Sundays too, you know, including Muslims living in the South.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 16:43:38

Oh ffs. You think people in the South don't have to work on a Sunday? Are you sure you're educated at all? hmm

londonrach Sun 29-Sep-13 16:43:42

Isnt the edl a dance group.....

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:45:52

YouTheCat come on, you've read the posts you know the answer to that grin wink

thebody Sun 29-Sep-13 16:46:42

I grew up in handsworth birminghsm in the 70s and 80s and it's a lot less racist now.

the main crime is gang in gang violence involving young English lads of Afro Caribbean descent.

the general population get along fine. when my elderly white Christian aunty died the whole road turned out and stood by their darden gates in respect. Muslim, Sickh Hindu and Eastern European.

it was the most touching thing.

there are evil and stupid people of all faiths and none and both sexes.

you are very unreasonable op.

crazynanna Sun 29-Sep-13 16:46:54

So, you are now banging on about Sundays, a Christian thing.

I think you just hate every fucker.

Thants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:51:07

Oh you work on a Sunday? But that is the lords day? I'm surprised a good traditional British person such as yourself would work on a Sunday. Oh well all Brits must be heathens then.

ohmymimi Sun 29-Sep-13 16:52:29

At least a 'Muslim' hasn't taken Fla's job - phew, the 'Muslims' aren't responsible for everything, then.

PrincessFlirtyPants Sun 29-Sep-13 16:53:45

ohmymimi grin

ihearsounds Sun 29-Sep-13 16:55:24

You want to know, well here goes:

They are not just opposed to extremists, but to all Islamic people.

How they were organised, which btw, was primarily from football hooligans. The type of hooligans that are organised and travel the globe to not watch football but to instigate fights. The same hooligan firms that have been associated with deaths of individuals in these fights.

The Edl also have close links with the bnp and bfp (and I suppose that neither of these parties are racist either?)

The reason why you find it hard to find anything other that on their site is because of death threats sent to those who speak out, including journalists who try and do reports on the edl. The journalist union also have lots of reports from journos trying to do anything on their marches..Why if you have nothing to hide as a party would you do this?

Then there's all the arrests at these 'peaceful' marches where edl members have caused injury to people and damage to property. Of when members have broke out of the marches and gone on to attack locals.

Then there was the MEP member that the edl decided to visit at home. Not a few members, but a crowd and the mep rightly so felt intimidated.

Spray painting and attacking mosques. Extremist edl have attacked muslims leaving mosques. Several edl members have been convicted for writing edl and other profanities on mosques and Asian businessess..Not long ago there was the convictions for the arson attacks. Why go after innocents if they are only about the extremists? But then why not go after all extremists regardless of religion, race or colour?

They incite hatred.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 16:56:25

what makes them fascist is that they want to stop a whole section of society having religious freedom

But surely that is what a jihad is? Isn't that to kill all 'infidels'?

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 16:58:32

yes - point out where anyone has said any form of oppression by anyone is acceptable?

thebody Sun 29-Sep-13 16:59:28

yes Flap, so all extremists are ignorant and stupid of all creeds and none

MOTU Sun 29-Sep-13 17:01:21

The idea that cheap run down areas majority occupied by minority/immigrants are that way because of the occupants is as logical as saying that Spain is sunny because they have a lot of tourists. Unfortunately for racial minorities, they are more likely to be in a lower socio economic group, therefore having little choice but to live in the cheap, "dirty, messy" streets. People's racist attitudes and mistrust of such groups only serves to limit their integration and therefore social mobility. I'm so tired of hearing edl/bnp/ukip saying that Muslims/immigrants/minorities should integrate with the indigenous population while constantly inciting racial hatred, mistrust and resentment-hindering an integrated society!!! Oh and I have a friends who has been the subject of edl abuse and is a practicing Christian......

nonmifairidere Sun 29-Sep-13 17:08:57

Flap - I believe that 'jihad' can have several meanings. If you are interested in being more educated about the term you could Google it

RedbreastRobin Sun 29-Sep-13 17:12:47

Apologies if this has already been linked (no time to scan 10 pages)

EDL Anthem

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 17:14:55

it refers to struggle against those who do not believe in Islamic God

Jihad is commonly used term for "Holy War", Jihad means "to struggle in the way of Allah"

That good enough nonmifairidere ?

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 17:17:10

FlapJack jihad can also mean an internal spiritual struggle, ie striving to be a better Muslim. I saw a survey once which showed that most Muslims understood jihad to have this meaning.

BangOn Sun 29-Sep-13 17:18:34

"first they came for the muslims & i did not speak out because i was not a muslim"

As others have explained here, the EDL are a far-right fascist group (perhaps slightly ironically, one which has links to violent & opressive fascist groups internationally). They also have their historical links to the NF & the BNP.

Their being opposed to 'radical islam' is the thin end of the wedge. Basically, that's the headline they use to entice new members to join. From there, it's not a very big leap to saying Islam in general is an 'evil' religion
& from that point you can endorse burning mosques &
justify wanting to deprive muslims of human rights. Basically you create a siege mentality in the minds of the naive & ill-educated, which then justifies the 'defense' of 'english values'.

Interestingly, I once stumbled upon ab EDL message board a few days before one of their rallies. (I was attending the counter-rally) & it was pretty revealing stuff. One of their members had asked "Why are we going to x? it's the sticks. can't believe there are many terrorists round there" & a senior member replied with something about how a far-right christian preacher had been banned from distributing anti-islamic leaflets by the local council & how it was the EDL's job to defend his human rights. There then followed a weird theological debate about how the Christian preacher had only been ' trying to point out how homophobic & misogynistic Islam is' & this grass-roots member responding "but don't we hate gays too?" & "but you're always saying a woman's place is in the home & if she goes out & gets herself raped its her own fault.."

Then the leader-type guy had to dig himself in even deeper by trying to explain how the EDL hates "gay behaviour but not the individual..."

Really interesting footwork.

LackingEnergy Sun 29-Sep-13 17:21:41

I dislike the EDL for singling out one religion. It's not like there aren't militants in other religious groups

I dislike the vast majority of religions in general - equal opps ;-)

I dislike travellers atm I was here first so fuck off out of my field and fix the fence you broke :angry:

I dislike that there are so few jobs around that pay a living wage

I dislike the Conservatives

I dislike a lot of things smile

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 17:21:42

But I am not a Muslim skyler - so I can only go by the meaning that is commonly used when referring to radical Muslims not by what a devout Muslim means by it.

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 17:23:34

Fla the way you are going off you must be the only white person living up north hmm or so you think you are .

I also live up North half hour away from Burnley & its certainly not a gated community or a leafy suburb ,
their are plenty of different minorities but we all try & get on as best we can instead of hating each other for skin colour or blaming an entire religion for peoples wrong doings .

Instead of blaming all the rubbish & dirty streets on them maybe you should contact your local council & get them to do their job properly.

Also have a biscuit

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 17:24:32

I'm not a Muslim either. But even the most cursory googling of 'jihad' brings up the dual meaning.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 17:26:29

They are as bad as each other - radical white EDL members want to get rid of Muslims........and radical Muslims want to get rid of anyone who doesn't believe in Allah.

I'm quite happy if they bloody well kill each other and let the rest of us get on with a peaceful life.

meditrina Sun 29-Sep-13 17:26:41
FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 17:27:49

headspinning -Flap the way you are going off you must be the only white person living up north hmm or so you think you are

You don't know just how far off the truth you actually are !! grin

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 17:28:42

'First they came for the muslims' - this makes me think about how successive governments have let extremists take over islam in the UK. They will not stand up against hate preachers, fgm, honour killings etc and muslims are first in line to be affected by things like these.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 17:35:58

Where I live some muslims are open about their aim to take over the country and implement sharia. They brag about it.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 17:42:16

Adventure, do you really think that there are only Muslim extremists? I had some nugget at my door a few weeks ago banging on about creationism.

In fact I have never ever been doorstepped by anyone other than extreme Christians. Funny that.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 17:43:16

I had Jehovahs Witnesses at my door today - they want to convert everyone as well - why don't the EDL protest outside our local Kingdom Hall hmm

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 17:44:56

No one has ever tried to convert me to Judaism or Islam.

I have never heard a Muslim preacher proclaiming about Allah in the street - but I have heard plenty proclaiming about Jesus and salvation and all manner of things.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 17:46:00

Because Jehovah's Witness will never be a threat. Islam is seen by many as one of the greatest threats to UK freedom.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 17:48:03

The greatest threat to freedom in the UK is the current government who want to forego some of our human rights because it doesn't fit in with their policies.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 17:48:14

Cat - please read my posts properly before you comment on them. I said some muslims around here brag that they are going to take over, not all of them.

noddyholder Sun 29-Sep-13 17:49:15

adventure you have a major anti islam axe to grind though as this isn't the first time you have taken a thread in this direction.

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 17:49:34

My post was meant for FlaFla .

I know a lot of people from Burnley & they are all white .

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 17:50:20

Okay. Can you read mine properly too then?

I didn't imply that you think all Muslims are extremists.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 17:50:41

take your own advice - can't see anywhere where Cat has said you said ALL Muslims smile

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 17:51:17

I am speaking the truth. I have muslim friends who are worried about muslim extremism. Should they not talk about it either?

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 17:52:07

Flap I haven't a clue what you mean by 'how far off the truth i am' brain may of gone to sleep

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 17:52:13

No one has said that.

I just pointed out that not just Muslims can be extremists.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 17:52:28

I worry about extremists on all sides

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 17:54:19

This is a thread about the EDL. They oppose islamic extremism. Most muslims in the UK hopefully oppose it too. It sounds like they have a lot in common then.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 17:55:49

The EDL oppose everyone who isn't white and British, not just Muslim extremists.

Have you even read the thread?

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 17:59:07

it's like Ground Hog Day grin

I don't think you will get an apology Youthecat

headsspinningforachange Sun 29-Sep-13 18:00:22

I have also never heard/seen a Muslim preacher or had them knocking at my door every dam day trying to convert me like the local Jehovas witnesses & Christians who just won't take a hint .
Muslims do not stand in the middle of town preaching via loud speaker telling my Ds that he will go to hell if he doesn't go to church , where I am its the Christians trying to convert everybody & shove Christianity down everyones throats but they seem to be blameless as they are white

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 18:00:37

I doubt it.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:01:18

Cat - yes I have read the thread, but I have also seen footage of EDL leaders telling racists that they're not welcome on their marches.

I've also seen lots of footage of muslims shouting for sharia in the UK.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:01:40

<<I can only go by the meaning that is commonly used when referring to radical Muslims not by what a devout Muslim means by it.>>

Why though? Why would you choose to trust the extremists to define 'jihad' for you, when how they define it is contrary to the teaching of Islam and also contrary to how pretty much every Muslim themselves would define it?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 18:02:03

Yes, lovely publicity footage.

Not what I've seen in real life.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 18:03:16

I've seen Tory's saying they stand up form working families - people LIE all the time grin

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:04:31

Fwiw the Muslim people that I know despair at this lazy shorthand that 'jihad' means 'holy war' - they don't want the extremists' view to become common currency and, as pretty much every Muslim has a personal jihad of their own and consider it to be a deeply spiritual matter, it is horrible for them to hear the word bandied around in this way, either by the extremists or by ignorant bigots.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:05:18

Wallison - because 'devout Muslims' are, in the majority, very silent in the UK and I haven't a clue what jihad means to them. They know about the radicals, but do nothing and say nothing, so the radical are the voices that we hear.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:07:24

Well, maybe you shouldn't use words if you can't be arsed to educate yourself as to their meaning. Just a thought.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:09:42

Why would I be interested in educating myself about Muslim words? Couldn't give a damn, tbh. They can live their quiet lives and hopefully let me live mine.

Doubt if any Muslims know the meaning of the word sacrist either !

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:10:41

And ordinary Muslims are hardly 'very silent' - every time some extremist commits any sort of act whether by word or deed, some poor soul from the Muslim Council of Britain gets wheeled onto the News to say that they don't agree with what the extremists are doing. Does the Archbishop of Canterbury get such requests to state the fucking blatantly obvious when fellow members of his faith shoot someone in Ireland?

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:11:12

<<Why would I be interested in educating myself about Muslim words? >>

Because you're using them.

Thanks for starting this thread OP.

As a result I have read more about EDL and have joinedHope Not Hate, which campaigns against extremist groups including the EDL, BNP and Al Muhajiroun.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:11:46

Loads of muslims have committed and tried to commit atrocities in the UK, and yet not all muslims are evil. However, the EDL don't blow people up, but are all evil anyway?

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:12:24

I looked up 'jihad'. See my answer a few message up hmm

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 18:13:28

The EDL have set fire to mosques with people in them and attacked Muslims and people who aren't white.

I'd call those atrocities.

Loads of other groups have committed atrocities too. Canary Wharf ring any bells?

Boaty Sun 29-Sep-13 18:14:35

I have often pondered where the bigoted opinions are coming from. There is more education on different religions, schools actively promote equality. Information is readily available. Not everyone in the country reads the DM! grin I don't really believe it is all passed down in families. There is no real 'reason' for the ignorance of the past.

My mother and her husband are very bigoted, neither my brother or I are. My mother says stuff very much like Fla but the last time she lived in a northern town area was in 1967!
We used at have many rows discussions to which I was dismissed at 'not having a clue what you are talking about'. I know my mothers attitude is that if someone is forcing her to accept something she rejects then that is good enough to confirm she is right! hmm

People may not be full paid up EDL but I think there are a lot of people who hold dubious views. I heard a staff room exchange along the lines of 'I'll believe Muslims are the same as us when they hold mass protests 'not in my name' and dress like the rest of us' hmm

Is it fear of 'strangers'?
Fear of changes around them?
Is the dislike a result of an individual meeting someone acting to a stereotype therefore confirming their preconceptions which they then attribute to a community?
How can we as a society 're educate' people to accept others?
I find it sad that in this day and age we can't accept each other and only deal with the extremists of all beliefs.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:15:13

You looked it up after using it inaccurately? Do you routinely use words whose meaning you do not understand or do you make a special case for words associated with Islam?

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:18:12

Cat - how do we know it was the EDL? Have there been convictions?

There have been plenty of convictions of muslim terrorists, and yet you are not tarring all muslims with the same brush.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:18:22

No, I used it accurately according to my understanding of the word as it most acceptably accurate.

If, deep within a religion, it has another meaning well........I wouldn't know that, would I?

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:19:54

Boaty - people fear that their country will become another Lebanon.

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 18:20:43

waves Northern mining village here, fucked prideless and messy due to the demise of mining and the increase of welfare state usage.

Also married to a Muslim man and shock not under any pressure to convert from ANY of the community.

Fla that's jacks your defence doesn't it? Being part of the community I can say there are racists and extremists on both sides and they are thankfully both inthe mminority

Take each person for themselves and you may surprise yourself by liking your neighbours.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:23:24

<<No, I used it accurately according to my understanding of the word as it most acceptably accurate.
>>

You used it inaccurately because your understanding is wrong. I won't speculate as to the reasons why you have such issues with comprehension.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:24:35

Don'tPanic - but what about the many people where I live who want sharia and openly brag that it's just a matter of time before we're paying tax to them?

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:25:38

Don't start getting personal Wallison just because you are not winning this argument through being pedantic.

MrsDeVere Sun 29-Sep-13 18:26:36

I live in the leafy suburb of Walthamstow
Tis like a bucolic fantasy out here I tells you it isnt

EDL tried to march on us.
The fuckers failed. By the time they got to Blackhorse Rd Station their numbers had dwindled to about 50. The rest had got lost and pissed.

So they shut down the town and they stumbled up the road whilst hundreds of us marched peacefully to prevent them.
Black, white, Asian you and old. Kids and babies, orthodox and no religion.

The EDL were pathetic

The whole time they were tweeting things like 'the p***s and the commies are bottling us now, its WAR!' 'the police can't hold them back, they are trying to kill us, ENGLAND'
Whilst I stood there with people knitting and drinking tea out of flasks.

What a load of bollocks. They are liars and cowards and racists and if you align yoursef to them don't be surprised if you get called that too.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:26:42

Yes, you have 'winner' written all over you.

ohmymimi Sun 29-Sep-13 18:26:53

Sunshine - thanks or the the link to 'Hope not Hate', I've joined too.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:29:09

Wallison - I repeat my earlier message. Getting personal is breaking MN guidelines.

There are many many accepted words that actually do not mean what people think they do. 'Jihad' is one of them. If you took out a full-page advertisement in the Times to tell people the proper meaning according to you, then more people would understand correctly, wouldn't they?

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:30:56

<<There are many many accepted words that actually do not mean what people think they do. >>

I'm sure there are. For some people.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 18:32:42

some terrorists are Muslim - ergo all Muslims are bad - what kind of logic is that

I remember being treated like shit for having an Irish name and an Irish father in the 70's and 80's - I have never hurt anyone

It's simple prejudice - there is no other word for it

Sallyingforth Sun 29-Sep-13 18:32:46

Well, 10/10 for DandyFloss

She/he started a thread that was always going to cause controversy and name-calling, and then buggered off to leave you all to it.

Good call!

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:33:08

I thought everyone knew that 'jihad' can mean killing non-muslims to advance islam.

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 18:34:01

How many Adventure? How many in total have said this to your face, not your mate or your dad's mate or your grannys flatmates cat?

Then work out the % of the total muslim population.

The problem with talking the views of a few then hating the whole is that the empirical data is flawed, thats called by data programmers "shit data in =shit results out"

My husband would fucking HATE Sharia law, so would all his mates, he considers anyone killing in the name of Allah to br fundamentally missing the damn point of their religion therefore not a muslim. So by my personal experience ALL muslims are peaceful kitten cuddling lovely people.

Only that isn't true either is it?

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:34:38

You didn't answer my question about taking out an advertisement? Will you be the one to educate the masses Wallison?

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 18:34:51

oh and the EDL are evil for their blind hatred of innocent people, their violent behaviour towards innocent people and their bigoted attitude

hth

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 18:36:15

you say 'jihad' I say 'Crusade' ...let's call the whole thing off...all together now, you say Jihad and I say Inquisition ....

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 18:37:15

Oh and to him and the majority of muslims "Jihad" means struggle. Nothing to do with war or killing hmm

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 18:37:24

Let's start by educating you, Flapjack. Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry on jihad, the first result if you google it. Hope that helps.

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 18:38:08

smile Gordy

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:40:01

Don'tpanic - I'm not hating the whole - or else I wouldn't have muslim friends would I?

So why would you hate everyone who has ever attended an EDL rally?

By the way, I wish more muslims would decide that jihad is a peaceful activity.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:40:35

So skyler - here is what you told me to do:

the word jihād translates as a noun meaning "struggle"

Jihad is COMMONLY USED TERM for "Holy War"

This is what I put before upthread.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:41:08

I'm not the one who agrees with extremists who co-opt words, twist their meanings and seek to degrade Islam, Flossie.

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 18:42:16

The highest number of victims of terrorism this week is actually from Peshawar. In Northern Pakistan - both Muslim and Christian sections of the community have been victims of the Pakistani Taliban.

The terrorism the Pakistani people suffer in Pakistan itself dwarfs anything we in the UK have suffered.

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 18:42:36

Dear me, Flapjack, are you only capable of reading 2 (partial sentences)? Do read on, you might learn something.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:44:21

"British soldiers go to hell" can also be interpreted in different ways.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:46:35

Nope skyler - I can read. That is what stood out for me.......and anyone else who can be bothered to look it up.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 18:48:00

I may die from the irony grin

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 18:49:43

It's a shame for you that you don't seem willing or able to read further than the first two lines. You really should try and redress that, as I suspect it will impede your understanding of issues that take more than two sentences to explain, as evident here.

It's also a shame that you seem to think you can speak for everybody else who uses Wikipedia.

Wallison Sun 29-Sep-13 18:49:44

<<"British soldiers go to hell" can also be interpreted in different ways.>>

The Pope was called on to comment on how Catholicism is a religion of peace every time that was daubed on walls in Ireland.

Oh wait, no, he wasn't. That must mean the Catholicism is a terrorist religion.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 18:49:45

Ted, you are being deliberately inflammatory. That is what the EDL do.

I shall judge on your words. Your words smack of bigotry.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:50:57

Why is it that people who are not getting anywhere on a thread just HAVE to start getting personal? I thought they were more educated than that grin

harticus Sun 29-Sep-13 18:51:13

Here you will find a list of crimes perpetrated by EDL members

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuLXE7S47JBsdHpneE5ySTdtaWxKYjh5c21fbEh6RFE#gid=0

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 18:51:39

Because Adventure as a huge historical religion the Muslim faith represents a vast spectrum of people and belief structures and ways to practise.

Currently thank fuck the EDL is small and has a very tight mission statement albiet unwritten, that they want all those of the muslim faith out (at the very tip of the iceberg) therefore there is no room for wiggle you join them you hate a race you are a racist.

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 18:53:01

Muslims all over the world suffer as a result of terrorist atrocities carried out by various perpetrators. Far more than we have ever faced in the UK from Islamic Extremists.
We should be more sympathetic and aware of this.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 18:54:13

Cat - Bigotry? Why? Just because I don't have exactly the same views as you?

We have a massive problem in the UK withislamic extremism. You want everyone to stay silent about it. Do you really think this will help muslim/non-muslim relations?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 18:54:19

Interesting document Harticus.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 18:55:43

Of course not because your views differ.

Because your views are based on total inaccuracies and ignorance.

There is no massive problem - those are words used by the EDL who are a bunch of racist bigots - and there you go.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 18:57:08

we really don't have a 'massive problem' with Muslim extremism in the UK that is pure hyperbole

no more than we have a 'massive problem' with Irish nationalist extremists or just, you know, extremist

harticus Sun 29-Sep-13 18:59:28

It is isn't it YouTheCat.
Always worth referring to whenever some poor misguided person claims that the EDL are just "misunderstood".

They are fascist thugs. That is all that needs to be known.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 18:59:44

* gordy - no more than we have a 'massive problem' with Irish nationalist extremists*

Well, you've got a darned short memory, then. We were bombed by the IRA so many times it became the norm. I remember it well. If you don't, then I suggest you do a bit of historical research!

"We have a massive problem in the UK withislamic extremism."

We really don't. Unless by "massive" you mean "very small".

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:00:29

There is no 'massive problem' with Islamic extremism in the UK. That is rubbish.

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 19:01:48

Gordy used the present tense, Flapjack. Do you think the UK currently has a massive problem with Irish nationalist extremists?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:01:51

I'd say the IRA was a bigger threat overall. But still not massive.

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 19:02:12

*"We have a massive problem in the UK with islamic extremism."
We really don't. Unless by "massive" you mean "very small".*

I think you will find radical islamists in many many mosques. It IS a problem.......and it will get worse.

nobodysbaby Sun 29-Sep-13 19:03:38

Fla, I come from Burnley and my whole extended family still live there. Being from a rundown former milltown does not give you an excuse to be racist, and I'm embarrasses to be associated with you. Amd that phrase 'former milltown'? That might give you a clue as to what went wrong, and it has fuck all to do with Muslims.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:04:04

Yeah right. hmm

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 19:04:15

No, I don't think we currently have a massive problem with Irish nationalist extremists - things change. And someone else takes their place.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 19:05:24

I have also heard about non-muslims being offered bags of cash to leave their homes and being intimidated until they go.

skylerwhite Sun 29-Sep-13 19:05:57

Right. So your response to Gordy was wrongheaded, to say the least. You see, it looks as though you saw what you wanted to see in her post, instead of reading it properly. hmm

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:05:59

Well, I remember several IRA bomb scares through the 80s and 90s but I've never encountered a Muslim terrorist one ever, personally.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:07:21

Where did you hear it? From stupid arsed things spread by the EDL via facebook etc?

Do you believe everything that fits neatly with your rather abhorrent views? hmm

Flapjack You will find extremists of many kinds in many many places, in the grand scheme of things though do you honestly think they are one of the greatest problems we are facing right now?

fuzzywuzzy Sun 29-Sep-13 19:11:52

"AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 19:05:24

I have also heard about non-muslims being offered bags of cash to leave their homes and being intimidated until they go. "

Bahahahhahahaha, where do these bags of cash come from, for a bag of cash (made up of £50's (obviously), I'd consider moving house with no intimidation.

The most ridiculous and clearly made up thing I have heard yet against Muslims!

usualsuspect Sun 29-Sep-13 19:12:23

Most of the EDL are so think they think anyone of Indian appearance is a Muslim.

Ted You'll believe anything wont you?

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 19:13:15

Adventure you've yet to answer, from WHO have you heard this, to YOUR FACE not to your mate in the EDL on facebook?

Are your muslim friends like Dave's black mate?

And Flapjack evidence please of extremists in all Mosques, and what do they look like so DH can be a bit wary, bet they have beards don't they? And Big eyebrows? "tis all about the hair....

LittleTulip Sun 29-Sep-13 19:13:29

Aaaah now AdventureTed has heard about non-Muslims being offered bags of cash to leave their homes! This is on top of also hearing Muslims want Sharia law to come in!

Who are you kidding?

FlapJackFlossie Sun 29-Sep-13 19:13:56

Flapjack You will find extremists of many kinds in many many places, in the grand scheme of things though do you honestly think they are one of the greatest problems we are facing right now?

Not right now, but most certainly in the future. Sharia Law will become on a par with British Law most certainly.

DiamondMask Sun 29-Sep-13 19:14:18

pretty much agreeing with MrsDeVere. They came to our town and stood around doing Nazi salutes. I think that might be a teeny bit fascist...

"Sharia Law will become on a par with British Law most certainly."

Really? What makes you think that?

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:14:54

I bet she's also heard about them 'illegals' getting all that money from the government when our pensioners get £3 and a button. hmm grin

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 19:15:45

YoutheCat - abhorrent? I believe that all people are equal. I believe that some muslims want the UK to be under sharia law. I do not want this, and neither do my muslim friends. Does that make our views abhorrent?

A salesman told me about the bags of money. He also told me where it happened. I suggest you all take a nice little walk around Glodwick in Oldham and see where it gets you. (I'm not from there, thank goodness).

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:16:02

The point I've been trying to make is that Islamic Extremism is far far more of a problem to other Muslims mainly in Asian and African countries than it will ever be in the UK.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:16:08

Flapjack, that would require a whole load of extremist Muslims to be elected to our government and change the law from within. Do you really see that happening?

What utter rot!

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:17:18

Yes, abhorrent. You are believing things that some bloke told you? Seriously?

FellatioNelson Sun 29-Sep-13 19:17:24

I dislike militant, fundmentalist extremist Islam as well. So does everyone sane. You don't need to join a bunch of dangerous extremists in order to express your dislike of dangerous extremists you know.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 19:18:57

We already have sharia courts operating in the UK.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:19:20

Where?

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:21:23

PS. I regularly get Christians preaching at me (JWs, Mormons, old ladies at work....) - but I wouldn't start a 'Latara Defence League'!

No Muslim has ever tried to preach at me btw.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 19:22:45

I do wish you would read the thread Flossie I am well aware of the actions of the IRA - I was abused for most of my childhood and teens for being Irish ...

If you think Irish breakaway IRA extremists no longer pose a threat you are very ill informed

murasaki Sun 29-Sep-13 19:22:48

Yes, and we have the Beth Din.

And that's fine. The law of the land still prevails, those are for civil matters.

it must be so dreadfully tiring to be in a constant state of panic about something that isn't happening.

nennypops Sun 29-Sep-13 19:23:09

AdventureTed: for all your talk about the so-called "massive problem" of extremist Islamists, were you aware that Islamic terrorist attacks comprised less than 1% of all terrorist attacks in Europe in recent years?

murasaki Sun 29-Sep-13 19:23:38

I'm surprised by the number of racists on here today. And saddened.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 29-Sep-13 19:25:02

So all the rich mozlems live in Goldwick in Oldham and they're all carrying around large amounts of cash in bags on their person?

People the economy has not gone to pot, all the money is concentrated in a corner of Manchester (with all the mozlems).

Adventure Ted, out of curiousity did you buy loads of that salesman? (just asking).

My parents live in a very ultra orthodox Jewish area, they regularly get (Jewish -not Mozlamic) people knocking on the door offering to buy their house.
And what?

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:25:35

nennypops that is the point I tried to make in a more roundabout way. Europe does not have a problem with any religious extremism compared to Africa and Asia which have massive problems.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 19:25:53

Sharia 'courts' do operate - they have done for years - they simply use Muslim civil 'law' to solve civil disputes - all Muslims have the choice to use British Civil Law as well - some choose the less formal route

It will never and can never replace criminal law - or indeed any law - should a Muslim not want to use Sharia court they are under no obligation to do so

It's a none issue

I've done many things which are against Sharia law, many of them when living in a largely Muslim area, I have never ever had anyone try to punish me according to Sharia law. Not too worried that anyone ever will tbh.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 19:26:22

Been out for a few hours.. Came back and its great to see that common sense and tolerant people out number the small minded bigots. It is sad though to read some of the crap been spouted by less than a handful of people.

What happened to the Op? Has she gone into hiding?

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:26:44

And the EDL are fascist. Fact.

AdventureTed Sun 29-Sep-13 19:27:18

Please google sharia courts in the UK. We are letting down muslim women, who often feel obliged to attend and abide by their decisions.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:27:46

My ex mil used to regularly have people putting cash offers in letters and putting them through her letterbox because her house was in a sought after area.

These were estate agents. They are scary. grin

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:28:57

No. You show me some links to these supposed Sharia courts. They will not be binding courts in our law if they even exist.

You Now that is scary grin

I think estate agents are more of a risk definitely

fuzzywuzzy Sun 29-Sep-13 19:29:41

Muslim women often go to the shariah council to obtain divorce.

My friend got her's in about 24 hours, the legal english divorce took her a year as her ex was being an arse hole.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 19:29:53

YourCat we should march against them... grin

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 19:30:11

and often get a better result grin please lets NOT go down the 'all Muslim women are repressed little flowers in need of protection' route

The Christian churches aren't known for their pro women stance you know

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:30:57

Can we march against the bankers whilst we're at it?

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 19:31:09

they do youthecat they are like informal dispute solving hearings rather than formal courts

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:31:11

Plenty of non-MUslim and Muslim women feel oppressed by their partners and by their communities. That's what feminism and women's movements and charities are for. NOT the EDL.

DiamondMask Sun 29-Sep-13 19:31:48

Sharia courts operate in the same way Beit Din courts do. They are not legally binding in the UK.

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:32:13

So not legally binding by our law then? Not recognised in law?

Latara Sun 29-Sep-13 19:33:24

No.

LittlePeaPod Sun 29-Sep-13 19:34:29

YouTheCat Nope, I am only marching against estate agents. I read sometime, somewhere in someplace and a friend of a friend of a friend a third cosine removed told me they are evil. Plus when I google them I can find evidence to prove my point. grin

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:35:49

It's hardly likely to become Sharia law for all then is it? And to surmise that it is going to is a bit daft really.

Laws are imposed/changed etc by government, not by a small group from one particular religion.

gordyslovesheep Sun 29-Sep-13 19:36:23

no - just Islamic law - so not legally binding

YouTheCat Sun 29-Sep-13 19:36:37

How about a march against people who chew with their mouth's open?

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 19:36:46

Did you know a woman gave birth to a litter of kittens? Honest, no really honest I can show you where and everything.

Why are you all looking at me, tis the truth I tell you. You'll all be sorry when the labour wards are overtaken by fucking cats, yes you will fools FOOLS.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 29-Sep-13 19:37:42

Youthe cat, shariah council is not legally binding. I wish it was, I'd have saved tohusands in legal fees for my own divorce and would have been divorced way earlier than the three years it actually took.

The Shariah council does not preside over matters.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 29-Sep-13 19:37:56

criminal matters that should say

DontPanicMrMannering Sun 29-Sep-13 19:38:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACLDKAaWAD0

SEE