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Religion and Children's TV?

(96 Posts)
Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 09:47:47

Just watching Mr Blooms nursery and the episode is about the harvest festival, children are singing "all things bright and beautiful" and thanking god for the harvest.

Surely if we aren't allowed to have religion in non dominational(sp?) Schools then it shouldn't be on a children's TV show.

I mean we aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas now a days its "happy holidays" so not to offend other cultures so why is this any different.

Not actually bothered myself we aren't a christian household and have our own religions but just live and let live, I just think its a weird contradiction, AIBU?

sooperdooper Sun 29-Sep-13 09:52:28

Cbeebies refer to a variety of cultural/ religious festivals, not just Christianity - they mentioned Eid too, it's allowed if its not only one particular religion I think

FeckOffCup Sun 29-Sep-13 09:55:28

Is there such a thing as a non denominational school, I thought they all included some form of worship. And have you actually experienced christmas being banned in favour of "happy holidays" because that sounds like daily mail xenophobic bullshit to me.

Sirzy Sun 29-Sep-13 09:57:47

I think its great the way that they cover events from a lot of different religions and cultures. Even if children are being raised in that religion then knowing about other peoples beliefs is a good thing.

SchrodingersFanny Sun 29-Sep-13 09:59:39

Er, the education Act specifically says religion should be in schools, in the form of daily act of worship and RE. It should be broadly Christian and then also represent the wider religious community.

Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 10:00:45

My childrens school is non denominational and I must admit I would be upset if I learned they had sang hymns or thanked "GOD" for any other reason than learning it in RE as I believe its down to the parents to teach religous ways if they believe in something, not the schools.

SooperDooper good point just today it was centred very much about Christianity and thought it was a bit much, not much of a fair balance where usually its a case of some people believe this and some believe that IYSWIM?

EduCated Bosnia-Herzegovina Sun 29-Sep-13 10:01:19

I mean we aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas now a days its "happy holidays" so not to offend other cultures so why is this any different.

That is complete Daily Fail bollocks. And schools have to do religion.

Sirzy Sun 29-Sep-13 10:03:16

It would be centred around Christianity because it was about a Christian festival confused

Sallyingforth Sun 29-Sep-13 10:04:07

Never mind OP. Your kids will soon be watching Dr Who, and that implicitly excludes any possibility of a God.

Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 10:04:42

SIRZY thats a very good point I agree children should learn about all other religions.

Sparklymommy Sun 29-Sep-13 10:05:08

Not too sure why you think religion isn't, and shouldn't be in schools. My own children go to a church school, however they have also covered Diwali, Eid, Hannukah, and many other religious festivals as well as learning about reincarnation, different places of worship etc etc.

To NOT learn about others religions breeds ignorance, fear and opens the doors for radicalism.

Have a biscuit

op read the education act, the bit about collective worship
oh and stop spouting ignorant and untrue daily mail bollocks it makes you come across a bit hard of thinking.

CMP69 Spain Sun 29-Sep-13 10:05:46

In our non church state school there is very much a Christian teaching much to my atheist DH's disgust
We have Christmas Easter Harvest and all the hymns to go with it grin

EduCated Bosnia-Herzegovina Sun 29-Sep-13 10:05:50

Is Harvest Festival even really that Christian? I know churches celebrate it, but the end of the harvest is generally celebrated in most cultures and religions. Obviously the hymn was Christian, but I don't see Harvest as being so overtly and exclusively Christian.

CSIJanner Sun 29-Sep-13 10:06:26

I agree. No more Christmas on Cbeebies, and that Easter Bunny can hop right off hmm

YABU. It was a piece about a Christian festival with a Christian hymn.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:07:30

Insanity, your kids should by law be having a daily act of Christian worship. Tis a stupid law but there u go.

"I mean we aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas now a days its "happy holidays" so not to offend other cultures so why is this any different. "

Who isn't allowed to celebrate Christmas? Here in the UK we are confused.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:08:10

CSI, there's nothing religious about the Easter bunny!

CSIJanner Sun 29-Sep-13 10:10:45

EduCated - you're right. It's been celebrated since pagan times for a successful harvest, however, for centuries now, its been celebrated in this country as a Christian festival.

Stitching - I know. I trying to be a wit and landed on my arse...

Harvest festival, like every other festival was taken over by the Christians, because people wanted a good old booze up (or whatever else they indulged in), at the times they were used to, hence the re-naming of every festival that exhausted long before Christianity or Islam ( or whatever you believe in).

Stravy Sun 29-Sep-13 10:11:08

I mean we aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas now a days its "happy holidays" so not to offend other cultures so why is this any different.

Says who? Never come across this and I lived in Birmingham during the 'winterval' thingy where the Daily Mail was spouting bollocks and there was a massive nativity above Broad Street

"Existed" not exhausted, but that sums up Christmas nicely, I suppose.

PedlarsSpanner Sun 29-Sep-13 10:13:02

Happy holidays is utter nonsense, stop spouting rubbish or give us evidence of ths claim

crescentmoon England Sun 29-Sep-13 10:13:30

actually i was sad to learn my children's current school sing 'thank you WORLD for everything' instead of the harvest songs id grown up with as a child.

pile of ignorant shit stirry goady ill thought bollocks.

Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 10:14:29

What I mean by I don't want religion in schools I dont want my children praying to a god they don't believe in, celebrating all religions and learning about all religions is a different matter and providing its a fair balance then there is no problem.

In my defence I don't watch childrens tv often so it seemed very unbalanced but if they also show other religions and how they celebrate different holidays then thats fine.

Re

SoftSheen Sun 29-Sep-13 10:14:38

YABU. Completely harmless. Harvest festivals and the hymns that go with them are part of our culture, whether or not we are Christian, of another religion, or atheist.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:14:55

Sorry CSI grin!

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:16:05

Insanity, the assembly will include prayers to god - it's separate from RE lessons.

meditrina Sun 29-Sep-13 10:17:33

If you don't want "religion" in schools, then if you are in UK you will need to go to a private school or HE.

I knew this would be about Mr Bloom.

What I found hmm about it wasn't the fact of talking about Harvest Festival, but the way it was presented as "what we do" rather than "some Christians give thanks for the harvest by..."

Let's Celebrate, on the other hand, only crops up on festival days and very explicitly talks about how a particular group celebrates the date. That's much closer to the accepted "teach about" method preferred (mandated?) in most educational circles nowadays.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:19:28

Meditrina, true but utterly disgraceful that that is the case.

I just switched it off. Personally I'd rather it wasn't there, along with the hysterical and prolonged build up to Christmas which will probably be starting any day soon.

ShakeAndVac Sun 29-Sep-13 10:22:37

I think its great the way that they cover events from a lot of different religions and cultures. Even if children are being raised in that religion then knowing about other peoples beliefs is a good thing.

^^This.

thegreylady Sun 29-Sep-13 10:23:46

Most religions celebrate and are thankful for the harvest and the bounties of nature, it goes way back before Christianity. God does not refer only to Christianity. All religions have one or more 'God' figures and the hymn you mention makes no specific reference to Jesus or Christ but just to a Creator. Let children grow and learn and look and be thankful. There are worse things they could be doing.

Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 10:24:14

Horry that was my point but badly presented obviously.

I'm not against teaching religion, I just thought this particular programme was odd.

learnt something about the daily act of worship though as I didn't think my school did it as my DCs have never once mentioned assemblys.

Catsize Sun 29-Sep-13 10:25:24

Oh dear. Have we really come to this?
Burn the churches, lest our children should see one and ask why it is there.
Like it or not, the Church of England is part of our legal system. Try disestablishing it before attacking Mr Bloom and his veggies.
I hear the village church bells as I type this, and thank God for that.

meditrina Sun 29-Sep-13 10:25:47

That's been the position since the founding of state education in the early twentieth century. Before that, the major provider of education was the Church and e change represented a significant removal of church influence from schooling.

But it's a side issue to the main point of OP, which is about what is on children's TV. Now I can remember seeing a piece about Diwali on a chikdren's show. And know that programmes such as Blue Peter cover lots of festivals of many creeds and nationalities.

We're ere any particular religions you thout were not getting fair coverage?

(And the 'not allowed to celebrate Christmas' stuff is total urban myth, though one that has proved amazingly enduring).

KatyPutTheCuttleOn Sun 29-Sep-13 10:26:50

YABU. The TV has an off button.

Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 10:27:55

Where in the thread does it state we shouldn't have churches or religion?

Like previously stated (several times) Its not religious teaching thats a problem as long as its not just one religion being taught.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:29:21

Yes catsize, that's we were all suggesting hmm.

Slightly hysterical post no?

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 10:30:12

And that NO religion is also an option which IME experience of RE it rarely is.

EduCated Bosnia-Herzegovina Sun 29-Sep-13 10:31:53

Hmm, doesn't sound great if it wasn't presented in a 'some people' kind of a way.

It really didn't feel inclusive. One minute Mr Bloom was explaining how farmers plough/sow/harvest to make enough food for us all to eat, the next we were going into a country church to sing All Things Bright and Beautiful and having actual prayers ... then a weird garden party with Most Beautiful Vegetable competition and WI-style cake competition. Representative of only a tiny proportion of UK children and never explained.

The programme could have had an infant school singing Cauliflowers Fluffy and collecting for a food bank.

Insanityismymiddlename Sun 29-Sep-13 10:39:49

So glad someone else watched it so can see what I mean.

fancyanother Sun 29-Sep-13 10:42:39

I agree with stitching. What is really not allowed to be discussed it seems without the press treating people as dangerous degenerate s is that a lot of people don't have a religion and don't believe in a deity. Mr Blooms nursery for example would have been better off just celebrating the harvest in a non religious way. You don't need to talk about any religion at all to say that this is the time we have an abundance of fruit or whatever

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:24:52

My DS1 does an amazing version of cauliflowers fluffy grin!

Yes, being an atheist is not mentioned in the RE syllabus but being brought up in a non religious is a reality for millions of British children experience.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:25:08

Household

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 11:25:30

Excuse typos!

Sparklymommy Sun 29-Sep-13 13:16:11

Does anyone remember the school hymn that had the chorus:

and the creed and the colour and the name won't matter

This thread reminded me of singing that in assembly at school and loving the message it sent across.

Sparklymommy Sun 29-Sep-13 13:17:21

Sorry, missed out the last line: should read:

*and the creed and the colour and the name won't matter,
I'll be there*

EduCated Bosnia-Herzegovina Sun 29-Sep-13 13:52:01

It's also the same song with 'I was cold, I was naked'. Sadly I think this may have led to many children missing the intended point of the song wink

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 15:40:10
MaidOfStars Sun 29-Sep-13 17:28:09

Please someone tell me that what I'm reading isn't true...I do not, under any circumstances, want any child of mine performing a daily act of worship. I most definitely want every child in the country taught comparative religion in an impartial secular fashion.

If the 'daily act of worship' sometimes means singing a hymn in assembly, fine. If it means giving daily thanks to a Christian God, as if said God is real, then not fine.

Would I really have to go private? (Not at all looking for genuine excuse to gain moral high ground re:private schooling....Heaven - ha - forbid!)

Sorry, Maid. The law requires schools to have a daily "act of worship of a broadly Christian nature" regardless of its foundation. No implication of doubt or alternatives.

That is separate from RE, by the way, which is meant to be comparative and descriptive.

It's a ridiculous anomaly IMHO.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 17:37:40

It's very losely put into practise in most schools Maid and I can't imagine it's much different in most private schools tbh.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 17:38:20

Agree with Horry, it's a ridiculous law.

thegreylady Sun 29-Sep-13 18:04:32

How about saluting the flag or singing the national anthem as they do in America? If you choose a state school there will be some corporate worship and you'd be pushed to find an independent that didn't. You have the choice to ask that your child be withdrawn of course. As for Mr Bloom, your tv has an off button and you can indoctrinate your children with your pov as surely as the school can.

kim147 Sun 29-Sep-13 18:12:35

A daily act of worship thread!! Love these.

It's quite simple. Children should not be expected to worship / pray to God as part of their school day. If parents want that, they can do it in their own time.

It does not mean you are banned from praying to God. It just does not make worship and belief the default

Children should be taught about religion. There's some good stories in religions that teach about ethics. There's also stories from non -religious backgrounds. Knowing about a faith is interesting.

But they should not have to pray. And saying they can be withdrawn makes the positive action of belief the default.

PenelopePipPop Sun 29-Sep-13 18:14:20

Our head of state is head of the established church. The bishops of this established church sit in our legislature. And you are upset by references to the harvest festival on Mr Bloom?

Jesus wept (metaphorically).

MrsFruitcake Sun 29-Sep-13 18:46:18

Where's the issue? Ours is a C of E school and the children do have a daily act of worship. The school also has a yearly church inspection. It's the only school in the area that has a an 'Outstanding' Ofsted rating so is vastly over-subscribed.

They also learn about other religions and DD did a project on Eid.

if you don't like it, don't send your child to a school such as DDs and as someone upthread said, turn the TV off if it offends, I find I often do.

Spikeytree Sun 29-Sep-13 18:50:50

That hymn is 'When I needed a neighbour'

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 19:02:08

Mrsfruitcake, we can't choose not to send our children to a school that does a daily act of worship - they're aren't any!

MrsFruitcake Sun 29-Sep-13 19:05:56

You can ask for your child be excluded though?

Lonecatwithkitten Sun 29-Sep-13 19:08:11

Maid in the private sector you are likely to find religion much stronger than in the state sector. Many, many private schools were originally church schools and have a strong religious element to the school life.
You are entitled to remove your child from collective worship.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 19:09:45

How lovely MrsFruitCake - just what I want for my child, to be excluded hmm.

Alternatively they could ditch the daily act of worship and leave religious practise for the home where it should be.

I'm yet to hear a cogent argument for retaining the requirement in all schools. Assembly is defensible; collective worship isn't.

I'm a practising Christian, FWIW. I'm not coming at this from a position of "don't force your religion on my child".

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 19:25:19

I used to do assemblies as a teacher and would do a story with a moral and then have some quiet "reflective" time. Job done. If OFSTED had seen it they would have failed me because I didn't mention god!

kim147 Sun 29-Sep-13 20:51:07

I get really pissed off with the "well, they can ask to be excluded from assembly" argument.

Can anyone explain why there should be an act of worship? And that my DC should have to make the effort to ask to be excluded from?

It's a bit like singing the praises of a football team in assembly just because some people support that team and telling the others to participate or get out.

Not having the act of worship would make no difference to believers. They can worship in their time and in their space.

I don't expect an act of non-worship / disbelief everyday. And I can't see why we need an act of mainly Christian worship.

exexpat Sun 29-Sep-13 20:59:10

MaidOfStars - don't worry, there is no need to go private because that won't help you avoid religion. As as far as I can tell, 99% of private schools also have some kind of Christian (or occasionally other religious) ethos, and very similar assemblies to state schools, if anything with more traditional hymns. If you feel very strongly about it, there is a legal right to withdraw your children from religious assemblies at state schools, but that wouldn't apply in private schools - they might be able to accommodate that kind of request, but they wouldn't be legally obliged to.

In the meantime, you might want to join the National Secular Society's campaigns to remove religious worship from state schools and end religious discrimination in admissions to state schools.

kim147 Sun 29-Sep-13 21:04:31

TBF, most primaries I've worked in don't mention God or do a daily act of worship.

The CofE ones vary in their seriousness - some do the full works with candles, prayers before lunch and the end of the day whilst others do a prayer.

thegreylady Sun 29-Sep-13 21:06:30

If 98 parents out of a hundred are happy for their dc to attend a daily assembly which may include a hymn or a prayer and 2 are not;the easy solution is for the two to read quietly in a classroom with a TA.
The solution is not to get rid of the assembly to accommodate the 2.

kim147 Sun 29-Sep-13 21:08:57

thegreylady

Most parents just accept the default. Like the "tick C of E as religion".

I'm sure most parents would also be happy for there not to be an assembly with a hymn or a prayer.

Why should there be a hymn and a prayer when the children are too young to make their choice about a belief system?

thegreylady Sun 29-Sep-13 21:09:30

Many of our best state schools are affiliated to a faith.These schools are over subscribed because parents want the ethos and the results of these schools.Most schools do not include faith in the admission policy.Then along come parents who want what the school offers and then proceed to argue for the removal of the chief foundation that made the school so desirable in the first place.

exexpat Sun 29-Sep-13 21:16:49

thegreylady - yes, some people choose to apply to faith schools even if they are not religious, in which case they probably have no right to complain about religious aspects of school life.

However, even more people have no choice about sending their children to Church of England schools, because that is all that is available locally, and the places are allocated on distance rather than religious criteria. Atheists do not get priority at non-church schools because of their (lack of) belief.

And in any case, even non-denominational 'community' schools are also obliged to have daily acts of worship. As a non-believer in the UK, the only way to avoid religion in school is to withdraw your child from assemblies, or to home educate. And as a growing proportion of the population has no religion (25% overall at the last census, higher in younger age groups, so probably at least a third of parents of primary-age children), I think the current state of affairs is well overdue for reform.

LiberalPedant Sun 29-Sep-13 21:26:31

How about saluting the flag or singing the national anthem as they do in America?

There is not much singing of the national anthem in schools because it is so hard to sing. And the Supreme Court has ruled that schools can't force children to salute the flag.

kim147 Sun 29-Sep-13 21:38:14

I see no one has given a good reason why State schools should have a daily act of worship.

Except parents haven't complained. That's not really a good reason.

StitchingMoss Sun 29-Sep-13 21:47:50

Thegreylady, there is absolutely no evidence whatsover that the fact they are religious has anything to do with their OFSTED rating. Parents don't fight to get into these schools cos they have a daily prayer but because of their results - entirely disingenuous to claim otherwise.

exexpat Sun 29-Sep-13 21:56:39

Oh, and I didn't complain to my DC's old primary school (voluntary-controlled CofE, ie local school with places allocated on distance etc, not religion) about the religious assemblies, because I knew that was the law. Instead I joined the National Secular Society. Although the school was officially CofE, so had to pay lip-service to the church, only a tiny minority of staff and pupils' families were practising Christians.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 29-Sep-13 22:05:46

There was no act of daily worship at my school and it was a faith school. Is this unusual?

Catsize Sun 29-Sep-13 22:07:40

Mr Bloom himself is possibly worthy of some kind of worship...

thegreylady Sun 29-Sep-13 22:47:28

Stitching every single decent primary school I taught in, and there were many as I did supply for a few years after early retirement, had a faith affiliation. I also taught in several that hadn't. The difference was very marked. Now that evidence is anecdotal I know as is the fact that locally the Church schools have waiting lists and the CP schools haven't. I am not specially religious myself and my dc are agnostic at most. I can't see any differences between the scools in terms of size, catchment or facilities except that some had a greater or lesser degree of involvement with a church ( RC or CoE) and some didn't. The lovely, caring, high achieving schools were all faith schools.
I am talking in circles, I'm tired and probably wrong. I'm glad my dgc are in church schools ( except for dgd in Turkey).

I think the popularity of faith schools is partly self-fulfilling. They start off good because they're good, then they get popular because they're good. Once they're popular they increase their proportion of engaged/involved parents, so their results improve/sustain. Meanwhile the other local schools dwindle because all the most interested and involved parents are elsewhere. And that makes the faith school look even better.

In our town the church school used to be the best secondary school for miles, by miles. It still trades on that reputation and is hugely popular. Meanwhile its results have slipped below average for the area and nobody seems to have noticed.

exexpat Sun 29-Sep-13 23:50:07

Round here the popularity and league table position of schools seems mostly to correlate with the general desirability of the areas they are located in, not with their religious affiliation - some of the most popular and over-subscribed schools are community ones. But it's only the handful of Catholic primaries that select on religion in my city, not the CofE ones.

Somehow, any school that is selective, on whatever grounds, seems to be seen as more desirable and therefore it is the more engaged and determined parents who get places, and their children are also more likely to be pushed supported at home, and so the school does well and becomes more desirable etc.

I haven't noticed a particular difference in terms of warmth/caring between different types of schools, except that I have heard rather unpleasant reports about treatment of low-achieving (possibly dyslexic but too young to be assessed) children at a very high-achieving Catholic primary near here.

DioneTheDiabolist Sun 29-Sep-13 23:57:18

OP, your OP sounds as though you don't want DCs to celebrate anything apart from birthdays. You are OK with birthdays?

Religious and other holidays tap into a very human need to celebrate the passing of time. They make us remember people, sadness and happiness and they are a shared experience. The 4th of July is an example of this.

StitchingMoss Mon 30-Sep-13 06:42:52

Ah so faith schools achieve better results because of god do they? Or is it that Christians are just more caring people than us atheists and so their kids do better at school? hmm

What a load of nonsense.

MiaowTheCat Mon 30-Sep-13 08:39:07

Hang on... there's a PLOT to Mr Bloom?! I thought it was just 20 minutes of eye candy and fantasising about what you'd like to get up to with him in the potting shed!

Cbeebies covers pretty much every major religion's festivals as they come around - at the moment we're into autumn and harvest festival season so that's what they're doing... no doubt we'll be into Diwali soon enough and everything else in between that I've forgotten about (I tend to mentally tune out a lot of the stuff on beebies).

Go find something else to be offended about.

BTW one of the schools around here with a high proportion of Muslim pupils sings All Things Bright and Beautiful - they simply have slightly altered the "Lord God made them all" line to say "God made them all." Same area of town have the great moneysaving solution to celebrating things without going down that stupid "Winterval" route - they stick the lights up and change the second line of them through every winter religious festival as they roll around over the course of the weeks!

thegreylady Mon 30-Sep-13 10:47:53

Nope Stitching nothing to do with 'better results because of god' but everything to do with a calm structured atmosphere with emphasis on caring for other people and regularly coming together as a community to celebrate time honoured festivals. A church school is usually affiliated to a local church and pupils become accustomed to the sense of belonging, not to a religion, but to a place. They are 'centred' and I know I can't explain very well. I know that children love taking part in Harvest Festivals and Nativity Plays and it is good to feel a sense of something bigger than humanity whether that is God, the cosmos, nature or whatever.
Church schools usually work, maybe 'why' doesn't matter.

kim147 Mon 30-Sep-13 10:51:15

FFS - you don't think non faith schools "provide a calm structured atmosphere with an emphasis on caring for each other"?

Most schools I have worked at have a sense of belonging and caring for each other. Even non faith schools.

And they do celebrate things like harvest and Christmas. I do not know one school I have worked at that does not do Christmas.

MrsFruitcake Mon 30-Sep-13 12:29:40

If 98 parents out of a hundred are happy for their dc to attend a daily assembly which may include a hymn or a prayer and 2 are not;the easy solution is for the two to read quietly in a classroom with a TA.
The solution is not to get rid of the assembly to accommodate the 2.

Couldn't agree more, thegreylady

exexpat Mon 30-Sep-13 12:55:49

Thing is, I don't think 98% of parents are necessarily 'happy' about religion in assembly, they just put up with it because it's the status quo. If there wasn't already a tradition of religion in school assemblies, how much support do you think a campaign to introduce it would get?

kim147 Mon 30-Sep-13 13:06:44

"Thing is, I don't think 98% of parents are necessarily 'happy' about religion in assembly, they just put up with it because it's the status quo."

The status quo. People probably haven't given it much thought and I doubt there'd be too many people who would kick up a fuss if it changed.

Hymns might be missed as people have strong memories of singing hymns at school - and probably haven't questioned it.

But I see no one has been able to give a reason why there should be an expectation of prayers and worship. Because there isn't one.

If there wasn't already a tradition of religion in school assemblies, how much support do you think a campaign to introduce it would get?

This. It would get fuck all support for schools which aren't officially linked with a particular religion (that is, for most schools).

I think the only reason people don't make more noise about it is because they don't realise it happens. I had NFI before my PFB started (wrote to the head for a clarification of the school's interpretation of their obligation in order to decide whether PFB should be withdrawn).

When I was at primary school (1980s/1990s) we only ever had religious songs at Christmas, and in any case I only encountered a nativity in Reception. In assembly we sang songs about animals, or Beatles classics, not hymns, and we never ever had prayers. I don't know whether the school was breaking the rules, but because that's how I grew up I assumed that was the default "not a church school" state school position.

StitchingMoss Mon 30-Sep-13 15:07:38

What utter nonsense thegreylady - so non faith schools don't provide any of that??

I can't even begin to describe what a patronising heap of crap that is. We don't belong to church but we have a very strong sense of community and belonging, as do our boys.

I can't bear this high minded superior attitude - it's one of the things that totally puts me off religion.

And as for most parents supporting religious assemblies - judging by lots of posts on here a lot of parents aren't even aware they happen so could hardly be described as supportive.

Parents aren't aware of a lot of what kids get taught at school - I was in an RE lesson once where we had a visiting vicar and one of my Y6s asked him about the Da Vinci code. His reply was that the DVC was a story whereas the Bible was fact shock. I had to point out the "some people believe" it's fact as I couldn't let it stand!

Insanityismymiddlename Mon 30-Sep-13 19:06:31

Dione I have my own religion and I celebrate the relevant holidays, my DCs choose to join in on these celebrations and will continue to do so unless they disagree with them and they find their own paths, I also discuss other people's beliefs with them and try to teach them that just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean its wrong.

I find it ridiculous that just because I disagree with the way a show was presented to young children and that I also disagree with the daily act of worship in schools that you assume I don't have anything to celebrate other than birthdays.

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