aibu to ask what are peoples views on suicide .l. do you think its selfish(86 Posts)
Do you think it is wrong to find it selfish
I don't think it's selfish.
I find it very sad that some people feel they cannot live in what ever anguish they are experiencing and feel the only option is to kill themselves.
Firstly, if you are referring to yourself, please seek help. There are MH boards on here and the Samaritans.
If this is just a talking point, then no, suicide is not selfish. If you are so depressed that you think the world and all your loved one would be better off without you, of course suicide is not selfish. It is miserable for those left behind, a tragic waste of life but not selfish.
Sorry it is not about me but how peopoe view my husband for leaving 4 kids x
Are you the OP who started the other thread on this?
this really won't go well . AIBU is not the place for this discussion.
No I havent started one on this before, I have a thread regarding my step children, I just feel like no one mentions my husband or thst night and tbh I havent worked out what I feel about hi, myself
I agree that aibu is not the place for this discussion. It is always very polarised and people always end up getting very upset.
As someone else said its not selfish, it's tragic that some people see no way out of whatever situation or anguish they are in other than suicide. Saying that someone is selfish seems to be the knee jerk response
You need this in relationships.
Depends on peoples personal experience. Some will see it as selfish and some wont.
Sorry about your husband - how bloody awful for all concerned.
We would be happy to move this thread someone else for you if you'd prefer us to. Just let us know on this thread and we'll take a look
Sorry, I didn't see your last post, I am so sorry about your husband.
I think perhaps you should ask for this to be moved to mental health or somewhere other than aibu? If you have personal experience of suicide then knowing how these threads go it may not make pleasant reading.
Personally, I think that for anyone to commit suicide they much be in such a dark place it makes it wrong to try to pass judgement on them. Yes it may be "selfish" to leave the mess behind for everyone else to deal with, but for someone to go to that extreme then they generally feel that it is the best option for them and the ones they love
Oops, I meant the thread needs moving to the Relationships section of the board.
Baddy if your husband committed suicide would it be better to try a kinder board? People on AIBU won't read your posts properly, will miss this fact, and probably upset you. Esp. Friday night, drinking etc.
fwiw no I don't think it is selfish. It is very very hard to live with your mind sometimes, you can't escape the inside of your head and staying alive feeling scared of your mind / distressed by your thoughts etc must be actually very hard.
It must be very hard people not talking about it - do you think that's from fear of upsetting you? Have you been offered any sort of counselling to help you begin to make sense of things and how you feel?
Your husband killed himself? I'm so sorry OP.
In answer to your question I don' think for me there's a straight forward answer to that. I think it's maybe a selfish act on the surface but at the same time having been suicidal in the past myself I decided that my family including my children were better off without me in their lives because I was an awful person, shitty mum etc etc.
So why I can totally understand why the people left behind see this as a selfish thing to do as they have to deal with the pain it's caused them, the person who has taken their own lives isn't necerssarily being selfish. If that makes sense. People who are suicidal are not thinking the way they would otherwise. It's like literally being in a bottomless pit of despair that you can not get out of. Massive sympathies to you, your DC and to your husband.
Sorry if I posted wrongly it was more about if I am wrong to want people to remember him for who he was and not what he done , you may move it sorry x
I suppose from one point of view it could be seen as selfish or cowardly (thinking of e.g abusers who take their own life rather than facing the consequences in court).
But in general, it's tragic - to get to a point where you feel the only way out is to take your own life is devestatingly sad. But, I think that for a loved one left behind to deal with the fall out, believing suicide to be selfish is probably an expression of one of the stagest grief more than anything else (IMO)
Sirzy I dont really know, no one mentions him really.
His sister didnt even come to the funeral.
No one would do it unless they were seriously seriously unwell.
And maddy, I am very sorry for your loss xx
Exactly what Sirzy said.
The upset and anger of those left behind can see it as a selfish act (personally I still believe its selfish). But for someone who truly believes their only option is to commit/complete suicide then it's the complete opposite - to them it can be how to fix things so things are better for those left behind.
Do you think your husband was selfish?
I'm so sorry you have lost your husband, and under such tragic circumstances.
No, it's not selfish, I don't think.
I think of it as being a bit like an auto-immune disease where the body reacts inappropriately to normal substances or tissues in the body. Without the correct treatment (and with the best will in the world we don't really have a foolproof cure for everything) it may become severe enough to kill you. No one would think someone with an auto-immune disease was selfish for dying.
You poor thing, life is hard as it is, without the extra worries that come our way.
You are not wrong or unreasonable to want people to remember your husband the way he was. I do not think it was a selfish act, if he was ill enough to take his own life, in all likelihood, he probably felt he was doing what was right for you and your children. Doesn't mean it was the right thing, just that he was probably ill and couldn't see clearly. Please ensure you get some help for yourself so that you end up in a position where you can remember happy times.
Apart of me feels angry and hurt by him but I know thats selfish too
I'm so sorry about your husband.
I would never think that someone committing suicide was selfish. I would feel sorry for the unbearable agony they had suffered that had caused them to do it.
No, never selfish.
Misguided though, I truly believe it is misguided. If there are family members left behind then it can't be truly self-less, it is misguided.
So very sorry for your loss
This is what i think, as someone who has felt suicidal in the not so distant past.
I think that it is selfish because of the devestation that it causes. BUT when i felt suicidal i genuinely thought my family would be better without me. Thankfully i didn't act on my thoughts, i think i was a million miles from ever carrying it out, i was pretty ill - to be so ill that you would do this, to consider that person a selfish person is very very unfair. Some people just find it too painful to stay alive and I can't help but thinking in some ways, if it is really that bad, then who are we to force them to stay? The sad truth is that things can get better and those who have taken their own lives may well have found their way to a better place, but for that split second of despair
You must have so many thoughts about this - it would probably help you to get some professional help regarding this.
Feeling angry and hurt is part of grieving.
It is absolutely not selfish of you to feel this way.
Maddy, do you want to talk about him here? I will happily listen, and I'm sure others will.
maddy it's not quite the same but my best friend killed himself.
I don't think he was selfish. In fact I think he was quite brave. I don't think I could take such a finite route.
Do you want to talk about what happened? With my friend no one wanted to discuss it at all and I found that quite difficult to deal with.
Maddy in time people will remember him and not how he died: any death is a huge shock and all you can think about is the how. Especially with suicide - there are more questions people ask themselves. Do people in real life let you talk about him? Can you talk to the children about him? Keep photos up if you can - we had none up after my dad died when I was young and it was odd.
Loganmummy, I think now things have settled the questions have began. There was not any indication that I realised anyway. We have 2 amazing kids , a house, and jobs. I just dont understand it, he was a good dad, a brilliant husband.
Like Sirzy and Loganmummy say it is so hard for those loved ones left behind, especially DC's. Knowing what it has done to family and friends left behind, unanswered questions, feelings of 'not doing enough', 'not being enough' to stop it makes it hard to not feel that is a selfish action. Having seeing the complete devastation for these families but having said that I don't think it changes the love that or feelings for the person only that what they did (if that makes sense?)
I'm sorry for your loss, Maddy.
In my experience of being suicidal/attempting it was not from selfish motives. I genuinely believed that the best thing I could do for anyone who loved me was to not be here anymore. I knew people would be sad for a little while but I assumed they would be relieved not to have my presence fouling up their lives.
My youngest is 1 and eldest 4, I have kept photos etc and try keep his memory alive.
So sorry for your loss.
I've lost 2 people close to me (Grandma, boyfriend) through suicide. At the time, I did think it was selfish. Now, with hindsight, I can see that they were poorly and at the time, they probably thought they were doing the most selfless thing ever. It helped me to think of it as an illness rather than thinking they were selfish. Although I was angry for a long time at both of them.
Do you have anyone to talk to about how you are feeling right now?
Please look after yourself.
I don't think selfishness enters into it, although I can understand why some might feel it is a selfish act. I think it is inexplicable to anyone who has not experienced the feelings that can lead to suicide. I am so sorry that you lost your husband in such a tragic way and I hope that you and his children are getting all the love, help and support you need. A dearly loved friend of mine took his own life some years ago and I still sometimes get overwhelmed by both anger and grief.
It's tragic that someone feels that's their only option and depending on their personal circumstances, it sometimes is. I would never judge someone who was in such a desperate state of mind. Tragic too for the loved ones left behind to pick up the pieces, it must be so hard for you
God maddy I am so sorry what a terrible thing to happen to you and your family. In answer to your original question I don't think its wrong for you to wonder if suicide is selfish - how on earth can anything you feel right now be 'wrong'? Don't be angry at yourself for your feelings.
I'm so sorry for your loss, Maddy.
No, I don't think it's selfish. The person who commits suicide is typically in a very very desperate situation.
I think suicide, unlike other deaths can leave more questions for the family left behind. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
I agree with Logan, if you want to talk about him here we'll listen as I'm sure you have many fun and happy stories you want to share.
I understand what you mean though, a close friend committed suicide a year ago and people are coping in different ways, some people don't want to talk about him, especially his sister. But I chat regularly with his dad about things we've did and retell old tales, sometimes have a few tears. But it took some time to talk about him without the conversation coming back to he did it and what could we have done to stop it? Not one of us saw it coming! My DH is still quite angry about it and I'm not sure he'd say selfish as such, but he struggled to understand how he could have hurt everyone this bad and he thinks he must have known the pain it would inflict. And we all just don't know what it was that was so bad, surely we could have fixed it together.
No theres no selfishness to Suicide at all, I think the person who does must have such internal pain or be very ill to do it.
I also think whenever someone we love dies we feel anger, its natural, I still feel anger from the loss of my parents many years ago when I was a really young girl. I knows it irrational but I cant help it.
Maddy I`m so sorry for your loss xx
No not selfish. I have been suicidal many times in the past before i was treated as a result of extreme anxiety. I love my life, my DH, my kids. I have no reason to want to leave life, but I can only describe how I felt as mental torture. No-one could go on living feeling that way.
Mental torture is no less painful than physical torture. I wouldn't think someone was selfish for ending their life because they were in a concentration camp or something and being tortured. I would take physical pain any day over the way I felt a few years ago. In fact, I think that is the reason some people self-harm.
If I had carried on feeling that bad and felt there was no way to get better then I would have killed myself. It is not possible to feel like that long-term and live.
Did you OH not have treatment? I feel so lucky to have found meds to treat my recalcitrant mental health issues. Sorry for your loss- I am glad he has peace, but it is awful awful awful for you. My heart goes out to you xxxxx
Thankyou , I guess no matter what I will always have questions and somr hurt feelings, but what I do know is I love him and that didnt change x
He had no treatmemt as no ome knew there was an issue, we came back from spain and the next day he was gone. I look bk at spain amd him splashing aroumd with ds in pool laughimg and joking
My uncle committed suicide. I was very young so it is a totally different situation. But I don't think he was selfish. He was mentally broken by a very traumatic experience and couldn't cope.
My heart goes out to you maddy and my sincerest condolences. May I ask how long ago was it, it sounds like it wasn't too long? Have you been given any counselling? I too know someone who ended their life shortly after a holiday of a lifetime - very unexpected and with no (obvious) MH issues.
I found out that when someone has made the decision to end their own life they become more content so their last few days are really happy because to them, an end is in sight.
I question myself - are me and the DC not enough, are we not good enough, not worth living for etc? And thinking things like this hurts like hell.
Logan that is exactly it... why was we not enough ... why didnt he talk to me.. did I tell him I lovee him enough
I am so very sorry for your loss Maddy.
About 10 years ago I had a breakdown and attempted suicide. It seemed to be the only option left to me. I felt as if I was a terrible burden on everyone and that my children would be better off without me. I can see now that I was horribly wrong, but when your mind is that messed up it does make an awful lot of sense.
When I was much younger, my partner committed suicide. It was also very sudden, out of a clear blue sky, to this day, no one is really sure why he did it.
Do I think people who commit suicide are selfish? No, if they were in their right minds it's not something they would even contemplate.
I do hope you find some peace, take good care of yourself.
Maddy, adding my sympathy to the other voices.
Samaritans also are very experienced in talking through how people feel about their loved one taking their own life. If you feel this would help you, please get in touch with them. They'll be happy to listen and maybe to help you unpick some of these feelings.
I tried to kill myself three times when I was young. I ended up in the mhu on anti psychotics in the end.
I begin by telling you that I suppose in order to show that I know how it feels.
I really dont think it is as simple as selfish or not.
I felt I was helping the rest of the world by removing myself from it. That is the very opposite of selfish. But my mind was working in a very damaged way at the time and my thinking was warped, from the outside yes, it appeared selfish, like I wasnt thinking how others would feel.
but it simply isnt that straightforward.
if you do something because you truly believe it is the best thing for everyone and people will be happy but the reality is that you only believe that because you are ill - are you being selfish?
I would have to say no.
is it selfish to have a broken leg? Is it selfish to limp if you have a broken limp? No, of course not. The mind can be broken too, its a body part and things can and do go wrong. Is the person selfish because of that?
There are stages of grieving that apply to all death, not just suicide and anger is in there.
maddy would having some sort of memorial service help do you think? You could prepare a written eulogy saying what you want him to be remembered for.
No, not selfish. Incredibly sad, utterly devastating. When someone commits suicide they are really unwell and genuinely think they are doing the best thing for everyone by not being here anymore. I was like this twice in my life...but people I knew and worked with would never, ever have known, I was very good at keeping it all ok on the outside. I eventually got citalopram and sorted myself out.
So very sorry for what has happened to you and for your husband, he must have been really suffering. And I can only imagine this but if my husband did this I would be angry with him too.
Very sorry to hear about this. He must have been so I'll he thought he was doing the right thing. The mind can get very distorted.
Having experienced suicide, both personally and in society (trains/tubes count right?!) if you do not know the person and experience transport issues on a weekly basis due to suicide affecting thousands of people it is extremely easy to view suicide as selfish. Thousands vs 1 makes that very black and white even if in reality its far from that.
Personally, you can view it as selfish yes if you view it as about the people the person knows. IE I went to a funeral for a suicide that was 200+. It was frankly hell on earth. Hundreds of deeply affected upset and in some cases hysterical people. It is hard not to view creating that as anything but selfish......
.....but, my friend was plainly in mental torment. He couldnt find a way out of the pain. And it was pain. I knew more than I let on at the funeral. I couldnt stop him. I had neither the words or the knowledge or the ability. Some things just are.
And that, thats something I live with. The juxtaposition of suicide is enormous. The ripples it causes are like an ocean. They hit Cornwall and New York. Some days it doesnt register with me. And others it hits like a tsunami. Is that my selfish nature or his....? Its all in the eye of the beholder sometimes.....
Oh maddy, no I don't think it's selfish. I think that if someone has committed suicide it's because they were unwell.
How are you coping with this? Have you got people to help in RL?
For the person doing it, it's the least selfish thing in the world.
Thats how my friend described it. His head hurt. For any other body part theres no stigma to going to a doctor. I suggested that to him and he looked a me like I was nuts the cheeky git.
its the only moment in my life i wish i could return to. but i know in my heart it would never end differently.
Maddy - it seems wrong to read and not post. This must be incredibly, incredibly hard for you. To answer your question, I don't think you can apply a word like selfish to suicide. It suggests that normal impulses, healthy mindsets and rational thinking are involved in the decision. I have no direct experience but your dh was obviously very ill when he decided on suicide. And most certainly it was not your fault in any way. I wish you well.
It's not 'selfish' but it is confusing and hard to understand for a lot of people.
I honestly don't know what I would think if I were in your situation other than I am sure I would have a million conflicting emotions. Perhaps your friends and family really don't know what to think either? Are you able to tell them that you understand they may have mixed emotions but you want to be able to talk about your husband. They may welcome some concrete guidance from you.
Are you getting any counselling?
I wonder what the response would be if someone died of something that they 'did' to themselves such as smoking, overeating, alcoholism, drug addiction or drink driving?
I feel so sorry for you and so sorry for your children. I hope everything works out ok.
Maddy, i saw him the week before. I would never have known he would do that, but when I heard I was not surprised. Dunno cant explain it. It was like it was always there just neither of us knew how to put it. but my god could he hide it. he was the life, the soul, the good looking sonofa b you wish you knew. i remember him laughing and i cannot see what he did, in that memory. it just doesnt exist. its not possible. and im still so fucking mad at the mf cunt so many years later but..... its not me not even close its his world and his choice even if he felt he had no choice
no comfort but maybe i sincerely hope some understanding from me and definitely sympathy for you at least.....
im so sorry for your loss. x
when my mom tried to kill herself I remember feeling very angry. How dare she leave me. I was so young. ..
when I was much older, my brother attempted suicide. I remember feeling desperately sad and that it was selfish to guilt and force someone to stay in a life they don't want.
now. All I know is that I still feel desperately sad and helpless for those who feel they can't go on..but im certain there is no selfishness to it. Only hurt.
Don't know if you know about it but there's an organisation called SOBBS (Survivors of bereavement by suicide). I don't know whether getting in touch with them would be any help. I get the impression they've all been 'through it' so might be a good place to get some support. Hope you can take care of yourself and find some peace and support with this horrible horrible situation.
As a child who found their mother after she commuted suicide, i will always think of my mum as selfish. I miss my mum dearly and hope she found peace in the end, but i cannot ever forget what happened that day. And having to explain to my family and her friends il never forgive her. I am still Please if this is about you try to get yourself help there is a lot available, even talk to a close friend please talk to someone
So sorry i dint read the rest of the post, sorry to hear about your husband, sorry if what i said offended you or upset you in anyway. X
I do feel suicide is selfish. It can traumatise family/loved ones left behind for the rest of their lives.
I also feel sorry to the heart for people who feel theres no way out of any dilemma or problem they may be facing, than to end their lives.
Its a very difficult subject
As someone who has been v v close.to suicide, no its not selfish.
I'm so sorry for.your loss.x
My children are the only reason I have not ended my life after my daughter's death, so I know that someone who does commit suicide is very, very, very ill.
Suicide is something I've mused over many, many times. Not flippantly I may add but because of (thankfully failed) experiences around me.
I think OneStepCloser is right that most deaths induce feelings of anger and that the person gone has in some way done something unforgivable - suicide is just catagorised as the one thing that it's ok to express those feelings as it's perceived the person had a choice. I don't think that's true, certainly from the perspective of the suicidal person. I think dying from suicide is the same as having a disease, tumour, car crash - whatever. For your brain chemistry to allow you to override the basic human need to survive and actively bring about your own death is an illness.
Illness isn't something given to rhyme or reason, for all the reasons for suicide I've heard/read I've never seen one that I couldn't answer with a 'But'.... no reason is good enough when you're in a place that has already resigned you to think you're better off not there.
It's harder to accept a death without having any answers, and I truly hope that you find peace maddymoo, you will find a way to live with your new reality and how to be happy alongside your hurt and confusion.
I'm so sorry to hear about your husband, Maddy.
There is no template for grief. How you feel is how you feel, and completely valid.
I hope you have some RL support for you and your children. It's unlikely you will ever find answers to all the questions you have, but I hope in time you can come to terms with not knowing, and find peace.
Part of your husband wasn't working properly, and that led to his death. It wasn't your fault and it wasn't in your control to stop it or make it better, any more than it would be in your control to stop cancer or a heart attack.
Take care of yourself.
It's even worse when it's so hidden that there is no warning. You poor thing Maddy. Anyone who says it is selfish has not felt that distress that means you feel you can't possibly go on.
Quite often people feel like their families would be happier and better off without them as someone else suggested. I remember feeling that everyone would be able to get on with life and be happy if I wasn't there. This is obviously wrong and the illness makes you feel like that.
To think of it as selfish is to think of mental illness as something you choose. You can't help being ill, and sometimes that illness sadly results in death.
To think of it as selfish is to think of mental illness as something you choose
Very well put, peachypips
I think suicide can be a selfish act unfortunately. On man I know did it in such a way that it was clear it was timed and designed to cause maximum distress to those left behind. i.e. the wife that was about to leave him. If he'd simply been ill and thought the world would have been a better place without him, he'd have chosen a different method.
I hope you can find some peace and happy memories.
My understanding of suicide is it is a desperate act of someone who is ill. certainly not selfish.
can you start a memory album with your dc? photos? nice memories?
perhaps overtime to reframe the loss of your dh to be what it was, an illness that ended his life rather than the action he took to deal with his pain.
People in our culture are shit a coping with death. Death which is the result of a mental illness is still taboo and shouldnt be.
this culture o deniL dpesnt nhelp.
I think it is a common misconception to think of suicide as selfish.I think anger is a common stage of grief, and sometimes being angry and the concept of selfishness collide. It's easy to be angry and 'blame' them for a while. A relative of mine committed suicide when I was quite young, I think the stages of grief may have taken longer because of my age. First came being distraught and bewildered - why have they gone? Then angry at them, and for a while thinking they had been selfish - the effect on those left behind. Then came calm, and I began to understand just how desperate they must have been to think it, and go through with it. I still feel overwhelming sadness, and why I wasn't important enough for them to stay. The truth is I will never know what made it happen, I just need to know that they did what they thought they had to. I still get very upset, but I know I couldn't have changed anything. I'm sorry that's a bit rambling, I find it hard to talk about. I'm very sorry for your bereavement OP. You are doing an amazing job with your children.
There was a long thread on here a couple of months ago about this topic in (mostly) a thoughtful and more general way. If you are wanting to explore how people feel in the abstract it may be worth a look when you feel you can.
To think about how people feel about your husband in particular will be very difficult, as other people will be grieving as well, and probably feeling guilty too. I think over time people will hold on to the good memories and the negative feelings around the way he died will lessen.
I'm sorry for your loss, Maddy, and wish you all the best in keeping positive memories alive. xx
Hello maddy. I'm so sorry to hear about your husband.
I lost my closest friend to suicide some years ago. My emotions were all over the place - I raged, I wept and went through huge lumps of anxiety. I blamed myself for not being a good enough friend. I felt like I'd been hit by a truck.
Thankfully it's long enough now that I can remember the good stuff and smile at memories of our time together.
Someone upthread mentioned Survivors of Bereavement by Suicide and they are amazing. I also had help from The Samaritans and bereavement counselling from Cruse.
In answer to your original question: no, I don't think people who take their own lives are selfish. I believe they reach a point where they can no longer cope or carry on. But it's okay to feel angry with them because of the hurt their action causes to those of us left behind.
Big hugs to you and your DC maddy. Be kind to yourself lovely.
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