to feel positively evangelical about electronic cigarettes?

(984 Posts)
KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 15:07:18

I was reading the AIBU thread about the husband vaping in the house with a newborn. I was struck by the passionate testimonials from former smokers, saying they couldn't have done it without e-cigs. I had tried a puff one of those things that look like a cigarette and was underwhelmed. But I didn't know about the more advanced set ups where you can fill them up with your flavour of choice. Anyway, I was intrigued. I smoked a pack a day for 25 years, and never quit more than a few months at a time, no matter which methods I tried.

nb84 encouraged me to give it a try and told me what to buy to get started.

I ordered a starter kit that night. It arrived the next day and I fell in love. I have three of them, now (one always charging, one near to hand, and one in my purse ready to go) and eight different flavours of the juice.

I don't want to smoke cigarettes any more. I like this better. It tastes really good. It feels good. And it doesn't stink. My hands, clothing, and breath don't reek anymore. I don't have to keep going outside. I don't have to feel like a smelly pariah. My husband can't smell it even when I'm sitting right next to him.

And I don't have to try and not think about the fact that my mother died of cancer after spending her last decade debilitated by emphysema.

And instead of paying £8 a day for fags, I can buy a week's worth of juice for £10. The hardware was less than £20 to get started and will require only £10 a month going forward. Of course, I can spend more. Many people geek out on it as a hobby because the gadgets are fun and constantly improving.

I'm not worried about putting on weight like people usually do when giving up the cancer sticks. In fact, I snack less. I no longer crave sweets. I would normally nibble all day, especially Haribo sweets. I don't want them anymore because I am tasting a bunch of sweet flavours all day long.

I'm so happy that I want to tell everyone - every smoker and everyone who loves a smoker - about it. grin

moondog Fri 27-Sep-13 15:08:31

Ive never seen one. Do they emit a vapour?

PaulSmenis Fri 27-Sep-13 15:09:57

YANBU.

I got a disposable one and DP started lecturing me on how they are dangerous and they contain some sort of chemical. Apparently the start people smoking again. hmm

I stopped ages ago using the gum and I'm still chewing it. It would be lovely to have a vape.

Waffling Fri 27-Sep-13 15:11:06

Me too. Best things ever.

LineRunner Fri 27-Sep-13 15:11:19

My Hot Builder has just bought an e-cig. He gone from about 50 roll-ups a day to 3. Overnight.

The vapour is water vapour, I think.

PaulSmenis Fri 27-Sep-13 15:12:18

What kit did you buy? It sounds good!

spottymoo Fri 27-Sep-13 15:12:25

I haven't smoked a "proper" cigarette since last August I'm now working down the strengths to totally come of these. We was spending £90 a weeks for two us smoking 60 a day between us. We now spend £5 a week on a bottle of fluid between us.

So as well as the money we've saved we no longer smell grin

leylandii Fri 27-Sep-13 15:12:49

YANBU I vape on a tank ecig, it is divine.

Waffling Fri 27-Sep-13 15:13:13

PaulSmenis I've been using for a year and haven't had my usual hacking cough and chest infections since. I was a very heavy smoker and haven't been temped to smoke since.

moondog Fri 27-Sep-13 15:13:36

A builder with an efag?
That sounds so emasculating.
I love a builder in all his unreconstructed glory.
Fags, The Sun, Pot Noodles and sweat.
Phwooarghhhh

Waffling Fri 27-Sep-13 15:14:33

It has however increased my use of 'since'. hmm

LineRunner Fri 27-Sep-13 15:15:07

moondog It's the only way I'll let him into my bedroom. grin

spottymoo Fri 27-Sep-13 15:15:07

http://thebestecigarette.co.uk
We have the local shop but get everything from here it cost us about £50 to set up for us both but we made that back in the first week in savings

cfc Fri 27-Sep-13 15:18:22

Good on you all!

waffling, I had to post to tell you you made me lol!

I understand your evangelism! I feel exactly the same way - these things are a revelation. The only cloud on the horizon is potential legislation by various governments (the ones in the UK and Ireland particularly concern me, 'cos those are the places I live) to regulate the juice content. All vapers should make themselves aware of the threats to our new-found freedom from tobacco - easily done by subscribing to one of the many e-cig forums out there - contact your local MP, MEP or TD and make your views known!

Cookiepants Fri 27-Sep-13 15:19:00

Katy, which starter kit did you order. My DH is hoping to cut down finances / health but we don't know where to start.

LineRunner Fri 27-Sep-13 15:20:03

Furry, I bet the tobacco industry is lobbying hard to kill the e-cig.

Waffling Fri 27-Sep-13 15:21:03

Am I the only one who can't abide the word "juice"? Eww.

Anyway, I get my LIQUID for €9 which lasts me a month. 30ml bottle.

leylandii Fri 27-Sep-13 15:21:46

cookie - I recommend the JacVapour vgo2 manual vv.

Sounds a right mouthful, but it really is one of the best on the market. £53.99 but that is a weeks worth of fags.

Then just buy whatever juice he likes and you are away!

leylandii Fri 27-Sep-13 15:22:44

What I would say is if you are serious about giving up then don't waste your money on all the little shop/garages that sell the throw away ones. You'll spend far more that way and don't really get a proper vape.

FancyPuffin Fri 27-Sep-13 15:27:37

I would really like to try these.

But.

I tried a disposable one and it leaked into my mouth <shudder> which was horrendous <extra shudder>

The word juice now makes me feel vomity.

Can anyone recommend one that doesn't leak?

PaulSmenis Fri 27-Sep-13 15:28:07

I'm really tempted to start vaping, but I'm worried about the possible government intervention. Do you reckon you will still be able to get them online from India or China or other countries and they might lable the packages as something else?

I really want to get a kit.

HavantGuard Fri 27-Sep-13 15:33:21

Guess what companies are behind e cigarettes? The same ones that have been selling you tobacco. Only with e cigarettes they can advertise and 'smoking' is ok! If you quit they lose your money. If you smoke instead, they still get your money indefinitely.

TabithaCampbellBlack Fri 27-Sep-13 15:49:49

Rubbish, Havant. Vaping is not smoking. And even if it were the same companies, who cares? It's the product that matters.

Katy What flavours did you get?

magimedi Fri 27-Sep-13 15:52:23

YANBU - I've stopped for NEARLY A YEAR for the first time in 40 years.

links please folks for all the good ones. I am looking at switching but need a dummies guide.
I just cannot afford them any more and if I had thought for a moment I would still be smoking twenty years later I would never have startedsad

ArgyMargy Fri 27-Sep-13 15:55:50

YANBU. Anything that helps people give up smoking safely is a good thing. And the key word is safely. Sadly there are unscrupulous people out there who will try to cut corners to make money out of nicotine addicts. So just as you get counterfeit cigs full of crap you will get counterfeit e-cigs full of god knows what. Hence the government wants to regulate them, to ensure safety.

PaulSmenis Fri 27-Sep-13 15:56:06

Links would be really good. I've been craving a fag so badly recently.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 15:59:52

Havant, the tobacco companies are selling them, it's true. But those are the rubbish disposables you can get at Tesco. The ones that try to look like cigarettes. Proper vaping is different. The devices look like fountain pens or sonic screwdrivers or walkie talkies, and these innovations were user led. The hardware is manufactured in China and the juice can be sourced from many places, or even made at home yourself.Tobacco companies would love just enough regulation that only theirs could be sold.

leylandii Fri 27-Sep-13 16:00:00

The government wants to regulate them in order to gain huge amounts of tax from them.

ginmakesitallok Fri 27-Sep-13 16:01:26

Yanbu, I've been vaping for just over 3 months now. Love it and can't imagine having another stinky.

For good advice go here

I get most of my liquid from alchemists cupboard.

sandiy Fri 27-Sep-13 16:06:04

I'm sorry to be a big spoiler but,these cigarettes hav nt been passed as safe by the health protection agency.Some of the vapours are made from glycerin the stuff that makes icing hard.Probobly not the safest stuff to inhale.They are currently being safety tested.Obviously smoking is really bad for your health so I guess it's up to the individual to make their own choice.However,any stop smoking service will provide you with nicotine replacement for free.These are at least safer.Sorry to be a complete downer.I would also like to add that young people are seriously endangering their health by dismantling e cigarettes and replacing vapours with legal highs.Ive heard of some really bad and harmful results.

PaulSmenis Fri 27-Sep-13 16:07:06

Alchemists cupboard? That sounds all esoteric!

Thanks gin. smile

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:09:29

Links:

Well, here is the kit that I was recommended:

paradisevapeuk.vstore.ca/egoce4-blister-pack-p-536.html

The site is crummy, but I have heard nothing but praise for the vendor and this particular product. It's mentioned a lot on Money Saving Expert in the vaping thread. Buy that and a couple of small sample-sized juices and you're good to go. (be adventurous and try at least one mom-tobacco flavour!) Check Youtube for how to fill it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9xj0Zb6ezQ

There are many forums eager to help newbies. Google "Vape forums" and you're all set. It's also a good idea to go into a vape shop. If you live near a city, there will be some. You can try flavours and gadgets and ask lots of questions because these people are keen to convert you.grin

TabithaCampbellBlack Fri 27-Sep-13 16:11:40

Sandiy

I think most of us get that. But e-cigs and the like have two or three chemicals in, while cigarettes have over 4000 (including, I believe, the couple that e-cigs have).

It's a no brainer really.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:12:13

sandiy, I would only recommend these to people who have tried the other methods and failed.

There's no reason to think this is anything but much, much safer than smoking. But, no, I wouldn't recommend a non-smoker to take it up.

As for dumb shit kids get up to... well, they also play The Choking Game and drag race in cars.

HavantGuard Fri 27-Sep-13 16:14:27
LineRunner Fri 27-Sep-13 16:15:40

E-cigs have got to be safer for someone already with a 50 a day habit, a chest infection and angina, I think.

HavantGuard Fri 27-Sep-13 16:19:44

Without the slightest doubt. That's not who they're marketing them too though.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:19:54

I agree that some quality control wouldn't go amiss. You can buy liquid from abroad, or buy it from an enthusiast small business owner. In light of the baby formula scandal in China, I prefer stuff made in the UK. I trust an enthusiast more. They will use pharmaceutical grade nicotine (exactly as put in the gum), food industry grade flavourings, and then the vapour base, which is the stuff used in smoke machines.

The small FDA study that found a handful of trace toxins studied pre-filled cartridges made in China some years ago. Nobody has analyzed the "gourmet" stuff people are vaping now.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:22:30

Havant, who are "they?" The guy in my town with a little shop where he sells quality stuff? He's just a convert who loves the stuff, wants to spread the love, and sees an opportunity in a growing market. His merchandise is NOT from big tobacco companies.

He is absolutely targetting the middle-aged person who is sick of the cancer sticks but couldn't quit the. People just like him.

ginmakesitallok Fri 27-Sep-13 16:23:29
ginmakesitallok Fri 27-Sep-13 16:25:23

99% of vapers are ex smokers, there is no evidence that non smokers are taking up vaping.

geekgal Fri 27-Sep-13 16:26:19

Just wanted to add my good for you!! I've seen them help some of my friends either quit or cut down loads, it's brilliant!

motheroftwoboys Fri 27-Sep-13 16:27:29

I HATE smoking and my DH managed to stop smoking/started vaping two months ago. he started on e-lites then changed to nicolites which totally suit him. He started on the strong and is down to the medium. He is saving a fortune. Brilliant invention.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:27:30

Havant, Jenny McCarthy is selling the sorts of crap that the government and big tobacco will allow because that's where the (tax) money is. I'm talking about something else.

More like this:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/features/inside-the-world-of-vapers-the-subculture-that-might-save-smokers-lives/

and this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu0flC6mUdQ

I found that video very moving. None of those people are buying anything from the tobacco companies.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:28:05

crap! dead links! sorry

Havant, Jenny McCarthy is selling the sorts of crap that the government and big tobacco will allow because that's where the (tax) money is. I'm talking about something else.

More like this:

www.digitaltrends.com/features/inside-the-world-of-vapers-the-subculture-that-might-save-smokers-lives/

and this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu0flC6mUdQ

I found that video very moving. None of those people are buying anything from the tobacco companies.

HavantGuard Fri 27-Sep-13 16:28:56

Look at the link. The advertising and marketing. The company in question is owned by the third largest US tobacco company.

When was the last time you saw patches advertised? Patches help you quit. E cigs are just a different habit.

ginmakesitallok Fri 27-Sep-13 16:31:12

But a much less harmful habit

HavantGuard Fri 27-Sep-13 16:33:56

For people who have tried all other options, maybe. The best option is still quitting.

TabithaCampbellBlack Fri 27-Sep-13 16:35:37

Havant

E-cigs are not really a cessation aid, although they can be used that way. They are mainly a safer way for smokers to get their nicotine fix.

So yes - they are marketed at smokers, not quitters.

motheroftwoboys Fri 27-Sep-13 16:37:24

My dh found it impossible to quit smoking having tried patches/gum/tablets/hypnotism - everything. E-cigs work. I really don't care if he carries on vaping. He is now a non smoker. smile

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:38:26

Havant: are you not reading what I'm posting??? THE STUFF I AM USING IS NOT PRODUCED BY THE TOBACCO COMPANIES. It's made in Chinese factories, to the specifications of vaping enthusiasts in the US, UK, etc. The liquids are made by small independent companies. Just like some yarn is produced by big companies, but keen knitters buy hand-spunstuff from other enthusiasts.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 16:42:09

Tobacco companies are NOT interested in DIY vaping. They want to make proprietary hardware with enclosed liquid cartridges that force the user to come back to them for refills. Franky, I have no problem with that. But, they will have a hard time competing against the independents.

If anything, they see the DIY vaping as a real threat.

ginmakesitallok Fri 27-Sep-13 16:44:42

Which is why they have jumped on the vaping bandwagon . The ironic thing is that if ecigs are regulated more strictly its the big tobacco companies who are the most likely to get licences for their products because of the huge costs involved.

LineRunner Fri 27-Sep-13 16:52:55

This thread is really interesting.

And helpful. Thanks, OP.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:01:52

Exactly, gin. I'm sure they're very carefully lobbying for exctly the sort of regulations they would benefit from. That would include vaping anywhere, sure. But strict dosing controls that would mean only prefilled cartridges would suit them fine.

Waffling Fri 27-Sep-13 17:06:59

Fwiw I use the supermarket type ones, the ones you buy the cartridges for. I just prised off the white tip thing and add liquid (juice eww).

I'll invest in a proper thingy when the two batteries I have die.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog Fri 27-Sep-13 17:07:51

I started using a Tornado T on sunday. I haven't touched a fag nor do I want one. I've tried giving up many times but failed.

I spoke to our ward pharmacist (I work for the NHS), he said they are looking into these to prescribe to patients, but they need regulating first and funding to be made available to do this.

From what he knows about them from his own research, they are still the safer option to fags. There is no smoke involved, which causes the most damage. These are his words and I trust him, I've worked with him for years.

Many people do quit altogether using these. You can reduce the amount of nicotine, until the nicotine addition is gone. My friend is only vaping 0.6mg of nicotine now after 8 months off the fags. She's smoked for 30 odd years and failed to give up so many times using patches, tablets etc.

She no longer craves the nicotine but is still has the 'hand to mouth' habit all smokers know about. She's now trying to tackle that without trying to deal with the nicotine addiction too.

StayAwayFromTheEdge Fri 27-Sep-13 17:17:35

They look ridiculous and are normaiaing tobacco use.
You are still addicted to nicotine which has health implications and are likely to be using more nicotine than before.
They are unregulated and you have no idea what is really in them.
Most people would be far better getting real support and using licensed products.

waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 17:19:31

This thread is enlightening, thank you.

Like you, I have tried one of the ones that looks like a fag but I wasn't enamoured with it.

I have smoked for twenty years- apart from 2 x 1 year breaks when pregnant. I have tried patches, gum, lozenges, hypnosis, Champix and Allen Carr. ie. I'm a very addicted smoker. I am inspired to give vaping a go. Anything has got to be better than repeatedly smoking roll-ups. And if it might eventually help me wean off nicotine altogether, that would be even better.

Thanks everyone for the recommendations and experiences you've shared. smile.

I don't understand the negative comments on this thread I have tried everything to stop, this looks like a really good option for me will be ordering some as soon as I have the money.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:24:55

About the only things I miss about smoking are:

The heft of the ciggie in my hand. Even the smnall cigalikes are much heavier. If somehow vaping could mimic this exactly, that would be great. But I expect to get used to the heft and feel of my eGo set-up in time.

The knocking the ash off by flicking with my thumb. Jut a dumb thing I noticed. Not a big thing by any means.

In a weird way, I sort of miss going outside to smoke. I know some vapers who do go outside for this reason. Especially the first fag of the morning while the kettle boils. The other night I put on my shoes and went into the kitchen and sort of looked at the door before realizing what I was even doing. I can't say I was craving a cigarette, exactly.

But vaping is just BETTER. I couldn't go back to fags.

I was just thinking... if I knew the world was going to end tomorrow, would I smoke or vape? I honestly don't know.

But, I inte d to do this until this completely replaces smoking in my little addict brain. Then if I do give it up, I will keep the kit in a drawer for the relapse that has always happened after a few months clean.

I won't go back tosmoking. It's too late for that, now. It will ever be enjoyable, again.

LineRunner Fri 27-Sep-13 17:27:17

And smoking actual cigarettes in bed and on the sofa when tired is really bloody dangerous.

Not to mention passive smoking dangers for children.

CostaLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:29:30

Mine arrived in the post today! smile

TabithaCampbellBlack Fri 27-Sep-13 17:30:06

BTW.....well done, Katy. You are now a non-smoker! smile

WorraLiberty Fri 27-Sep-13 17:31:23
waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 17:32:32

A quick question before I order my products Katy... The one you've linked to is £7 and I see the juices are £3 or so each. But others on this thread have said they've spent £50 on their kit. Why is there such a big difference in price? I've probably misunderstood something confused

WorraLiberty Fri 27-Sep-13 17:33:39

Yes OP I went outside to vape

I knew if I didn't, I would probably end up using it more than I used to smoke.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:36:13

66They look ridiculous and are normaiaing tobacco use.^

No more ridiculous than inhaling actual smoke, and there is no tobacco being used. Worrying about what people might think of me is no way to live a healthy life.

You are still addicted to nicotine which has health implications and are likely to be using more nicotine than before.

There is no proof that nicotine alone is worse than caffiene and it may even have beneficial effects in terms of cognition and memory.

It appears that less nicotine is absorbed into the bloodstream from vaping than from smoking a cigarette.

They are unregulated and you have no idea what is really in them.

That would depend on where you buy the liquid. The same level of quality control we expect in food would not go amiss, but I feel I can find trustworthy producers in the meantime. I'm willing to literally bet my life that any of it is better than a cigarette.

Most people would be far better getting real support and using licensed products.

Wrong. Most people - the vast majority of people - fail to quit smoking using licensed products and all the support available from any entity. The success rate of patches, gum, lozenges, etc is incredibly low.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:48:25

waterlego I thought the same thing! In fact, it looked so dodgy that I ended up paying twice that for the same thing from another vendor! But, I have since heard many people vouch for them. They are perfect for trying vaping. Many experienced vapers keep some around for back-ups or to give to curious friends.

You can pay hundreds of pounds for a kit. People do that because they love the thrill of finding the ultimate perfect vape. for them, it's a hobby.

That kit I linked is a cheap generic version of a standard eGo battery with standard generic atomizers. It will work. It will definitely work well enough for you to find out if vaping is for you.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 17:50:13

As a non smoker who hates, hates the smell of smoke, I am also evangelical about this.

I can't see the issue with remaining dependent on a low dose of nicotine. Everyone says smoking is a terrible addiction to shift. But small doses of nicotine would be safe-ish indefinitely. Safer than smoking, or obesity, or alcohol misuse, anyway.

Katy, the world needs people like you in the public sphere at the moment. I get the sense that both government and business are feeling their way on this. What we need is a community of consumers rising up and telling both that there is a HUGE market here, and this is how you want these products to develop- regulated and safe by all means, but not a monopoly to the tobacco companies. And fun. I think it's the fun side which makes this work so well. The bling, the different flavours.... It's not just a second rate substitute and an admission of failure, which I'm afraid gum is.

I would love to see savvy smokers take charge of this agenda.

CostaLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:51:37

waterlego, I spent £17.99 on my standard version which looks kind of like a fountain pen and £3.99 on the e-liquid. I think the deluxe versions which cost more come with extra e-liquid and spare cartridges for you to put the e-liquid in or more hard wearing cartridges meaning they don't have to be replaced as often.

waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 17:52:54

Fantastic, thank you Katy.

I have in my shopping cart: two of those ego blister packs you linked to (so that I can have one on charge while using the other (as suggested upthread), and three bottles of juice- 5ml each. Is that all I need to get started? And how long will that 'last' in comparison to smoking cigarettes?

Sorry for all the questions! Have looked at one of the vaping forums and now my head hurts with all the technical/scientific terms...some people seem to have a great many different bits of kit. And someone was on about having gloves to wear while you're filling cartridges or suchlike. I'm a bit baffled.

waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 17:55:54

Thank you Costa. I am feeling positive about this. This could really be the nail in the coffin of my smoking career and that is definitely something to be excited about.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 17:57:12

Also, waterlego most vapers started with the crappy cigalikes and found them wanting. (Some people like worra do like them, thoguh!)

I urge you to check out a vaping forum. The jargon can be overwhelming with all the anoraks geeking out on the different makes and models, but they will be very keen to help you with any questions.

And be bold and try some fun flavours. I assumed that I wanted to taste something as close to Marlboro Lights as possible, but I am thrilled with watermelon, mango, cherry, strawberry milkshake, etc. I have a wee bottle of tobacco flavour but I haven't opened it. I no longer see the point.

waterlego, I have just been looking on the forums im so confused I had to have a break and go out for fag, smile. I have no clue what to order.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:02:00

^"Fantastic, thank you Katy.

I have in my shopping cart: two of those ego blister packs you linked to (so that I can have one on charge while using the other (as suggested upthread), and three bottles of juice- 5ml each. Is that all I need to get started? And how long will that 'last' in comparison to smoking cigarettes?

Sorry for all the questions! Have looked at one of the vaping forums and now my head hurts with all the technical/scientific terms...some people seem to have a great many different bits of kit. And someone was on about having gloves to wear while you're filling cartridges or suchlike. I'm a bit baffled."^

Gloves aren't necessary, but don't rub your eyes until you've washed your hands.

What you've put in the cart is perfect. I don't know how long it will last because that depends on how furiously you puff. 5ml seems to last heavy vapers a day. What nicotine level did you get? For a pack a day, they recommend 18mg or maybe even a bit more.

The refillable atomizer tank things last a couple of weeks before burning out. They cost about £4. You will learn about options that are cheaper or pricier or better quality, etc. Plenty of time for that.

MistressDeeCee Fri 27-Sep-13 18:02:06

OP Im just as evangelical about it as you are smile Id been smoking for 28 years. Tried electronic cigs 6 months ago and havent looked back, its the only thing thats worked for me. Id done patches, tablets, the lot.

No more hair, clothes, my house stinking of smoke. I can talk to people without worrying whether the smoke smell is bothering them. No more standing outside venues/events freezing, having a smoke smile I feel fitter. & best of all, it works out cheaper. The government and tobacco companies are just jumping up & down because e cigs are eating into their profits. Ive read stuff online about them being dangerous...yeah, right..and cigarettes arent?

I use the type that actually looks like a cigarette, has a red tip too. The flavour is USA tobacco..you have a battery (ie the white part of the cigarette) & you screw the brown cartridge into the top..the cartridges come in a pack of 5 £10 per pack but they last a good while. They have a USB charger which makes things really easy. I order online once a week & thats it. I'll never go back to smoking real cigs & wish Id made the change years ago

waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 18:02:15

You and me both teenage!

Thanks Katy, you've been so helpful.

MrsBennetsEldest Fri 27-Sep-13 18:03:30

And for £200 you can have hypnotherapy and be free of fags and ecigs for good. With ecigs you have just replaced one compulsion with another.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:04:50

If you can't make heads or talse of the written info, look for a vape shop near you and go in with questions. It's much easier when someone is explaining it in person.

Avoid market stalls or pushy guys at kiosks in malls. a proper independent vape shop run by an enthusiast is best. You can try before you buy and sample yummy flavours.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:06:03

Also, the word "eGo" is good. It's not a brand, but a type of threading that means parts are interchangeable.

I have had hypnotherapy last three months and started again.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:06:57

mrsB if hypnotherapy always worked for everyone then everyone would always do it.

Like, say, taking antibiotics.

Glad it worked for you, but it doesn't always. What may be exciting about eCigs is they may work for everyone. Essentially, a cure for the worst side of smoking.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:07:30

"And for £200 you can have hypnotherapy and be free of fags and ecigs for good. With ecigs you have just replaced one compulsion with another."

Hogwash. If it were that damned easy, don't you think everyone would have done it?

waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 18:09:41

It didn't work for me MrsBennets. I did stop for a month but then started again. The hypno cost £120. If I had to do that once a month, that's twice the cost of my smoking.

HalfSpamHalfBrisket Fri 27-Sep-13 18:10:26

I stopped smoking after using one of these, I think they are brilliant. I still have it on standby in case I go on a big night out & drink enough to think smoking would be a good idea - the ecig means I can have a few drags and not have to wake up stinking of smoke and beating myself up for having smoked.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:11:16

I apoligize for all the typos. I am NOT drunk. I just have a broken arm that makes typing hard.:smile:

MistressDeeCee Fri 27-Sep-13 18:11:27

I like smoking. Its as simple as that, for me. That being the case, Id rather smoke ecigs than cancer stickssmile

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:12:45

* Katy * a little bonus is that arm will heal faster if you are valuing and not smoking smile

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:13:00

Vaping, even

MrsBennetsEldest Fri 27-Sep-13 18:13:16

My therapy came with 5 year backup so if needs must I can go back.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:14:22

Good for you mrs b and I hope it goes well. But it just isn't reliable enough for a whole nation full of smokers to give up using that method.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:15:22

I didn't even really like smoking. I never liked the taste. I just felt compelled to keep doing it.

But I positively LOVE vaping.

I also noticed that I enjoy playing with the vapour. I always used to exhale smoke forcefully and quickly just to get the vile stuff away from me.

But the vapour is fun. I may even learn to blow smoke rings! wink

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:17:22

beast I wonder if everyone could switch to vaping? I think a few people just can't get on with it, but I believe the vast majority of them just haven't found the right vape for them, yet.

StayAwayFromTheEdge Fri 27-Sep-13 18:18:34

Katy - that is the response of an addict I'm afraid.

Most responsible smokers will smoke away from children - at the back door etc. Ecigs are being used everywhere and normalising it impressionable young people.

Ask yourself - would you be happy for your child to use an Ecig?

Nicotine is well known to raise blood pressure and heart rate which is an issue with patients with CVD - yes eCigs are probably safer, but there is no evidence to say they are safe.

It is very hard to quit alone - champix with good support from trained advisors is the what is needed.

cranberryorange Fri 27-Sep-13 18:18:48

I'm another one thats ditched the fags after 27 years of 20-30 a day using an E cig which i first saw recommended on MN.

Nobody thought i would do it having tried everything else on the market to give up but the swap over was surprisingly easy.

I've got the Totally wicked E Go C twist and am currently vaping vanilla.

I had my last fag on the 18th January and havent ever thought of buying a pack of 20.

My dose of nicotine has gone from 18 down to 6 so hopefully by Xmas i will be on the nicotine free dose.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:22:04

katy I think it is too soon to tell. The vaping technology and products will develop so much in the next ten years. I daresay there will
always be a hard core of "old fashioned" smokers but they may become a minority interest group.

Of course the vaping thing is really a reinvention of the old Hubble bubble technology, I think, in which the nicotine is dissolved in water vapour. Interesting to see these old customs re interpreted.

Bt I am excited to imagine a world in which 80% of smokers can use something that keeps them relatively safe and minimises the effects on their friends.

Llareggub Fri 27-Sep-13 18:26:16

I'm a week without cigarettes using the Stoptober campaign. I started smoking again in December after giving up for 10 years. I've tried ecigs but they don't work for me. The way I give up is to change my routine.

I've had cravings but I think (for me anyway) it is better to find something else to do rather than replace smoking with vaping.

If anyone wants to stop I really do recommend the stoptober app and pack.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:26:24

Of course I'm an addict. That's the problem. And, no, I wouldn't want my kids to take up vaping. But I sure don't want them to take up smoking, and that's what is more likely to happen if I don't vape. Because I will just smoke again.

I've quit for months at a time, before. Usually just for a few days or weeks, but I've gone longer. Most smokers have had the same experience.

Champix is not without serious side effects and you don't stay on it forever. It just helps you stop. It doesn't cure you of the underlying addiction that causes relapse. Plenty of people have tried Champix, some of them more than once, and failed to stay off.

I feel doomed to this existence as an addict. My goal is to completely get addicted to vaping bubblegum-flavoured steam, and then quit that.I'm not in any hurry. I'll gradually reduce the nicotine to zero, then wean off the vape. And when the inevitable relapse comes, I will fall off the wagon onto a sweet cloud of vapour.

Rachel778 Fri 27-Sep-13 18:26:27

Ive had few lapses (only a few roll ups) but I love my vaping smile I am looking forward to watermelon. american cigarette , margarita and vanilla flavours next smile

waterlego Fri 27-Sep-13 18:29:23

Stayaway It's understandable to have reservations or objections to the ecigs, but I think it's narrow-minded to say that Champix is the answer for everyone. It made me feel very ill and I have a history of MH problems so it wasn't suitable for me. I'm sure we could all agree that there is probably is no 'one size fits all' solution.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:30:09

"I'm a week without cigarettes using the Stoptober campaign. I started smoking again in December after giving up for 10 years. I've tried ecigs but they don't work for me. The way I give up is to change my routine.

I've had cravings but I think (for me anyway) it is better to find something else to do rather than replace smoking with vaping.

If anyone wants to stop I really do recommend the stoptober app and pack."

That is fantastic, Llareggub! Good for you!

I would recommend that people try to simply quit smoking, first. They may be in the minority for whom it takes. But if repeated attempts and various methods vail, then vaping can be a life saver.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:35:46

People who advise on smoking cessation using established methods. May well find the rush to vaping irritating. So much goodwill, care and thought has gone into established addiction management and we don't want to throw that away or be dismissive of it.

But the fact remains that sadly it is not as effective as society needs it to be.

I think we badly need some independent research, so we can evaluate the genuine downside of vaping.

Of course it is healthier not to smoke. I am not about to take up vaping. But in many cases its a choice between vaping and smoking.

sonlypuppyfat Fri 27-Sep-13 18:38:05

I am desperate for my DM to try one of these, she must be spending a fortune on fags. I so hate the smell of smoking and the smell gets everywhere she gave me some icelollys for my DCs I handed them out they said ugh are these from grandma the smell had even got into the freezer.

forumdonkey Fri 27-Sep-13 18:38:21

I'm an old time vaper - 3yrs and 3 months grin When I started on them they were causing quite a stir when I vaped in pubs as hardly anyone had ever seen one. I love love love my ecigs and over the years they have improved dramatically.

I've been banging on about them for years and I have friends who were happy to stay on cigs and just had them for when they couldn't get out for a real cig but have ended up loving them more than the real thing - result not wanting to smoke!! grin

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 18:38:52

By the way, the easiest quit I ever had was Navy boot camp. Cold turkey, and I never jonesed an instant. For ten weeks my life was turned upside down and regimented. There were no trigger situations like bars, cafes, or watching television. Just lots of physical exercise and being yelled at.

I bought a pack the very first day after I passed-in-review, as did every other smoker in my division.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 18:40:01

somly gross, sounds like my Dsisters house!

Feminine Fri 27-Sep-13 18:46:40

I wonder if any non-smokers ( never smoked) will take them up?

Oh OP, I smiled reading that, I was exactly the same when I "discovered" vaping. Ignore the naysayers and doom-mongers.

Really don't understand the "but you're just swapping one addiction for another!" rhetoric. I mean...yes. And? We've swapped a noxious, expensive, miserable habit for a clean, fragrant, affordable, relatively harmless one. Do you people never have a morning coffee? An afternoon cup of tea? An evening glass of wine? A post-prandial dessert? You don't need any of these things, you just ENJOY them. You should just quit them all and live a life of po-faced asceticism hmm

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 19:03:12

Feminine, I think some will. In fact, I have seen a couple on the forums. They seem to be pretty rare and they get the liquid without any nicotine. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but if people want to breath flavoured steam, that's their business.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 19:05:19

I know someone who chewed the gum because they thought it would help them lose weight. confused

But, there are people who compulsively eat dirt. One guy ate a bicycle. People are weird.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 19:07:11

fem I wouldn't. I don't think it would appeal. I don't want what smoking offers.

This fits with my thoughts about an earlier poster who said that katy would always have an addiction. I have an autistic and LD son. If he starts a habit that is anti-social, such as flicking lights on and off, I don't think, hmm, be good to teach him not to be autistic and LD. I think, how can I divert this behaviour onto flapping of hands which is less annoying?

I have a much loved friend with an addictive personality, no question. When I first met her it was expressed as an eating disorder, and life threatening obesity. A few years ago she turned her madness impressive ability to focus onto a sport, and she is now fit and half her former weight. Anyone who tried to cure her eating addiction without channeling her addicitive personality was doomed to fail.

Now I am not saying Katy has an addictive personality as she is ex-forces and might find out where I live but you have to say she has got an impressive handle on all this in the two days or whatever that she has been vaping. That's why the geek factor, the fun, the kit, is so powerful.

I don't feel the need to reform addicted smokers and turn them into me. I just want them to be safer, and preferably not to stink me out ;)

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 19:11:06

Beast, that was awesome. The bit about your son, I mean. You GET it. Addiction defies logic. Even addicts often fail to really grasp it (that would be the denial). Non-addicts rarely get it at all.

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 19:15:02

Katy smile

We parents of severely LD kids are used to inhabiting a parallel universe... Today he was playing with a toy that had been left outside . It was covered in snails. He just flicked them onto the lawn.."one snail. Two snails. Three snails". He was playing a counting game, not knowing he was meant to be grossed out by them.

Feminine Fri 27-Sep-13 19:17:31

katy grin I was wondering, as despite having given up 20 years ago...they were starting to sound quite nice!

StayAwayFromTheEdge Fri 27-Sep-13 19:21:29

No champix isn't without side-effects in the short term, but as yet nobody knows the long term of effects of "vaping" - even the name is bloody awful.

There are other options though - NRT, Zyban, intensive therapy.

The problem of addiction remains with eCigs - I suspect to majority will carry on using for many years - they are not addressing the issue of addiction and I will not be persuaded otherwise. Most people I have spoken to report using them much more than ordinary cigarettes as they are more socially acceptable.

CatelynStark Fri 27-Sep-13 19:26:55

I'm in the pro-ecig camp too.

Having smoked for thirty five years, I've recently had a huge scare when I had to have a chest X-ray for a persistent cough and wheezy chest infection that antibiotics couldn't touch. I'm now on steroids and an inhaler sad

I signed up to Stoptober (plastered it all over my FB so my friends are encouraging me and I can't relapse due to the subsequent public humiliation smile)

I'm reading Alan Carr's book for wimmin and have an app on my iPhone that charts how my body is recovering.

I'm on nicolite ecigs that I got from a pharmacy and I'm nearly at the end of day five!!!!

I can't believe how well I'm doing grin

Yes, I'm an addict and will always be a smoker who now doesn't smoke.

QueFonda Fri 27-Sep-13 19:27:31

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mojavewonderer Fri 27-Sep-13 19:40:51

Thanks Katy. I am off to a vape shop on Monday to pick one up for my hubby who is still struggling to stay smoke free. Hopefully this will help him smile

olgaga Fri 27-Sep-13 19:47:40

Completely agree OP. I had my first cigarette aged 9 and smoked for 40 years, heavily for about 30.

I finally gave up for good 2 years ago (it'll be 3 years in Feb) when I began to struggle to breathe. I had patches and an inhalator at first. The patches gave me awful palpitations and terrible dreams. The inhalator and gum gave me the worst indigestion I had ever experienced.

I got so low, I began to think everyone would be better off without me. My asthma/COPD nurse rang me out of the blue to see how I was getting on, and made an urgent appt for me to see the GP for ADs. I was so lucky to get that help, but let's face it, it wouldn't have been there if I hadn't made the initial effort to give up.

I knew I couldn't carry on with the patches etc but fortified by the ADs I began to look for alternatives. That's when I discovered ecigs.

I can't recommend them highly enough. For those who say "It replaces one addiction with another" I'm afraid that's wide of the mark. it simply allows you to maintain your equilibrium by addressing your existing addiction in a way that patches and other nicotine replacement therapy fails to do.

My COPD nurse tells me she is not allowed to recommend ecigs, but she hears more and more success stories involving them all the time, noting that ecig users never feel the need to go back to tobacco.

My Dental Hygienist also approves, and told me that she and her DP gave up smoking using ecigs.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post a link but if you google JAC vapour and PureVape those are the ones I use.

In my case it has been a lifesaver. My lung capacity had dropped to 60%, its now 85% and improves at every review. I need nhalers to maintain my airways and will probably die prematurely through the damage already done, but hopefully I'll live long enough to still feel proud that I managed to give up tobacco and cannabis despite my underlying mental health problems as a result of a traumatic childhood.

I don't tend to vape in front of anyone but as it's odourless I can use it discreetly whenever I need to.

I've no doubt the Govt - and actuaries - will become increasingly concerned at the diminishing tax revenue (currently £9bn) as compared with £3.5bn spent on treating smoking related disease, especially as fewer and fewer smokers and ex-smokers will die prematurely, and more and more of us will drain state pension and occupational funds.

I've got no doubt at all that ecigs will be regulated soon and be as widely available and heavily taxed as alcohol to stop this drain on tax revenue!

Beastofburden Fri 27-Sep-13 20:24:02

stay " even the name is bloody awful"

Unlike Zyban and Champix?

smile

I know they will stay addicts. If we had a reliable, definite cure for smoking I wouldn't be in favour. Personally I have never smoked at all.

CatelynStark Fri 27-Sep-13 20:46:58

Katy, I've just ordered the ego/ce4 that you recommended with a silk cut tasty-likey, a vanilla cupcake and a chocolate 5ml thingy. I'm excited now!

If vaping is the way forward for me, I'm after a pink sparkly one for Christmas grin

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 21:21:47

The pink sparkly one is the one I bought as a backup!

Those flavours sound delicious. Let me know how you get on.

CatelynStark Fri 27-Sep-13 21:34:55

smile Will do.

Hi Katy.. I read the same thread bought one juat after and haven't had a cigarette in 2 days. I feel amazing and very proud of my self I got the clearmist one and my favourite flavour is grape smile

IamNotLegend Fri 27-Sep-13 21:54:04

I got my e-cig from www.liberty-flights.Co.uk they've got a great forum there. Very informative and friendly. I also buy my liquid from www.vapourtine.Co.uk, who have some brilliant offers.

I've been using my ecig since January. At first I thought I'd never get used to it but now I know I'd never go back to cigarettes.

My dentist congratulated me yesterday on quitting smoking. They've made such a massive difference to my health and I've converted a number of family members and friends.

My advice to anyone would be, don't be overwhelmed by all the different types of ecigs and flavours. Get yourself a starter kit, which usually come with a small bottle of liquid and take it from there. You'll soon work out the ins and outs of it all

A fellow vape addict here, I stopped smoking a week before the summer hols as a friend who was a smoker recommended the kit to me, I stopped for nearly a year last year using the elites, this time I needed more. I have a kanga bcc and vision spinner and so many different flavour liquids. a 10mg liquid lasts me about 3 weeks. I love it, I said I was going to cut down and stop eventually but for now I enjoy vaping. I have also found that I had a cig and that was enough I went straight back to vaping. I dont do it in front of my kids. Yes it is anaddiction to replace fags but I always loved smoking so am happy that I found a way to get that pleasure without all the dangers.

oh and currently vaping cherry coke. mmmmm

stillenacht Fri 27-Sep-13 21:56:29

Just ordered menthol elites starter kit. Quite excited not to be smoking anymoresmile

oh and to anyone starting out I would recommend ordering a menthol, any flocours you dont like are nice if mixed with menthol.

IamNotLegend Fri 27-Sep-13 22:04:07

Currently smoking energy cow, which is lush but also have a 30 ml bottle of fizzy trifle that sounded so nice but actually tastes like sickly custard. That's been put in the back of my vape drawer (kitchen drawer) along with vanilla, iced mint and caramel. I'm still working on discovering my preference!

olgaga Fri 27-Sep-13 22:04:44

Stayaway I respect your view and I would not encourage nicotine addiction.

However, nicotine in itself is not harmful. If it was, other methods of NRT - patches etc - would not be available.

It's the tobacco that kills. It's the tobacco that creates dangerous passive smoke effect. Not the nicotine.

stillenacht Fri 27-Sep-13 22:10:53

Can u get all those different flavours for elites or do I just have to stick to menthol?

I think elites just come in fag or menthol flavours unless they have changed since I last used them

stillenacht Fri 27-Sep-13 22:24:01

Thanks ditasmile will start with them and see how it goessmile

StayAwayFromTheEdge Fri 27-Sep-13 22:36:43

Olga the point of NRT is that you are treated for short periods of time, not that you remain on it indefinitely (although I do realise that there are a number of patients addicted to the gum). The adverse cardiovascular effects of nicotine are well documented and should not be ignored.

Lazysuzanne Fri 27-Sep-13 23:15:18

I think vaping is a fantastic thing, I'm a non smoker.

There is a negative attitude from a few people.
I suspect the negative attitude stems from a feeling that smokers are evil pariah's who ought to suffer, grit thier teeth and fight to muster up superhuman amounts of willpower when they stop smoking.

The idea of an easy switch to something harmless and just as (if not more) enjoyable just makes them feel as if smokers are somehow cheating and getting off scott free.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 23:20:18

EXACTLY, Lazysuzanne! We're meant to be smelly pariahs who pay lots and lots of tax and then die early.

Nessalina Fri 27-Sep-13 23:24:09

Well done! smile My MIL has just started vaping because it costs her less than half what she was spending on tobacco, and I'm so relieved! She coughs less and doesn't have to go and stand out in the rain to have a fag every hour, and she really enjoys the vaping, so I think it might keep her off the cigs for good. Definitely the way forward!! If the government manage the regulation properly I really think it could be the death of smoking for good smile

forumdonkey Fri 27-Sep-13 23:24:34

This is old now but its Dr Hilary Jones discussing ecigs

Anyone wanting to try ecigs I would recommend you try a good one rather than a disposable or one that looks like a cig. I highly recommend one of these E Cig £12.85 plus a bottle of juice - same price as 2 pkts of cigs.

The money I have saved over the last 3 years is ridiculous - I've even managed to buy my fab sexy new car which without the money I'd saved I could not have afforded.

Lazysuzanne Fri 27-Sep-13 23:25:00

'The adverse cardiovascular effects of nicotine are well documented'

Really?
I'm not so sure about that!
My understanding is that nicotine is about as harmful as caffeine..so what if people feel addicted to vaping, I feel addicted to loads of things which aren't harmful..I cant see what the problem is confused

Lazysuzanne Fri 27-Sep-13 23:28:52

'If the government manage the regulation properly I really think it could be the death of smoking for good'

but will they manage it properly?
govt makes a shed load of tax revenue from smoking and tobacco companies are probably in a position to exert pressure so that vaping doesnt replace smoking angry

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 23:29:42

Also, lots of people decrease the nicotine over time. It's very easy to do, and it wasn't really possible with real cigarettes. Not to mention, it was pointless as the nicotine isn't the dangerous ingredient and it's really only a small part of the addiction.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 27-Sep-13 23:32:05

Something else I've noticed about kicking cigs: I've talked to many people in my life who say "I quit smoking 5/10/20 years ago, and I still want a cigarette every day. I want one right now."

forumdonkey Fri 27-Sep-13 23:32:34

Also none of the large pharmaceutical companies are connected with ECigs and they are mightily pissed that they missed this gem and are not profiting from it. It is proving to be the most successful NRT product and is the most successful in stopping people from using tobacco.

Nessalina Fri 27-Sep-13 23:32:55

As others have said, it's going to need some passionate lobbying, but I think they'll be hard pressed to ban the stuff because it's potentially bad for you, whilst still advocating cigarette sales which we know kill you!! Inevitably they'll have to work out a way to tax them so they're not losing out confused

WidowWadman Fri 27-Sep-13 23:34:46

I'm not really buying that they're a cessation aid. And I'm slightly worried that all these lovely flavours and the fact you don't have to go outside etc actually may lead to people taking up using them who never smoked before, it's just a creation of a new market, because the old one is shrinking.

olgaga Fri 27-Sep-13 23:38:25

Yes stayaway - and if your nicotine addiction is unmanageable what then?

Let me explain. You give up the NRT and go back to tobacco in desperation. I don't know anyone who uses gum long term. It's vile, both in the mouth and for the stomach. It gives you terrible acid indigestion. It doesn't stop the craving for the throat hit.

What is your evidence for the incidence of heart disease as a result of long term NRT use? In my experience no-one uses them long term anyway so any information in that regard is purely speculative and serves to protect NRT manufacturers from liability.

The latest studies show that relapse rates are the same whether NRT is used or not.

Smokers die through long term tobacco use, not through nicotine addiction.

forumdonkey Fri 27-Sep-13 23:38:30

'I'm not really buying that they're a cessation aid'

Well they have been for me and everyone I know who uses them. I have yet to find anyone who was a non smoker and has decided to take up vaping. I can categorically say I could not and would not have managed to stop smoking tobacco without it.

forumdonkey Fri 27-Sep-13 23:40:29

WidowWadman you can buy juices that are nicotine free

forumdonkey Fri 27-Sep-13 23:44:22

To all the 'anti vaping' posters heres my link to what I posted ^ Just in case you missed it wink

Dr Hilary Jones on Day Break

Lazysuzanne Fri 27-Sep-13 23:55:23

Widow, based on your line of reasoning we should stop coffee manufacturers from making coffee in such lovely flavors and ban people from drinking it indoors

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 00:01:46

Hi Katy - not stalking you, honest grin Haven't you come a long way in such a short time! Well done - and "told you so" grin grin

So good to hear all these positive stories.

Ecigs haven't been around for long enough to have had long term trials, but studies so far have shown them to be much safer than smoking. Figures of 95-99% safer. Even if there is still a small health risk I would carry on vaping as I know that if I didn't I would be smoking cigarettes and we all know the health risks of that.

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 00:01:55

So how does that work? Haven't heard coffee being promoted as the allegedly healthy alternative to smoking.

TedMoseby Sat 28-Sep-13 00:03:44

Wow, I find this thread really, really disturbing. Inhaling an unregulated product, made in China of all the places, into your lungs? Madness, absolute madness.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:05:46

widow have you watched my link that will explain ( a Dr) how they work and differ from tobacco.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 00:08:18

Ted, the batteries are made in china. The liquids are made in many places, or even at home. I wouldn't mind quality control, but I am sure that there's nothing in any of them worse than in tobacco smoke.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:09:31

tell the juices are all made from ingredients that are already passed for food regulations and non of the juices I buy are from China but legitimate companies in the UK. The batteries and bits may well be from China but the juices I use aren't.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 00:11:29

I just love how these fierce debates just serve to convert more newbies. I think this thread has made at lest three of them so far. grin

I don't think I've yet heard a current smoker poo-poo the idea. I've heard a few "tried it once, didn't like it" but it seems that anyone desperately gripped by the addiction sees the logic in this.

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 00:11:29
nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 00:12:17

I've never heard of a non smoker taking up vaping either.

As for children - according to Cancer Research 11% of 15 year olds are regular smokers. Given that most of us can't control what their teenagers do, would you rather they tried cigarettes and their 4,000 chemicals or the safer form of vaping? Obviously the ideal would be neither, and though I'm an ardent vaper I don't vape around children or in places that you would not smoke a cigarette.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 00:13:34

TedMoseby - my liquid is made in my own kitchen.

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 00:14:12

forumdonkey - wrt to Hilary Jones, he may be a real doctor, but not one whose judgement I'd neccessarily trust

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 00:17:18
KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 00:17:29

There are some concerned people. BMA and NHS can't endorse anything that hasn't been tested completely, nor should they.

And, there was ONE study done a few years ago by the FDA that found tiny traces of a few nasties in SOME of the cartridges. These were cartridges from cigalikes. Not the home-made e-liquids being tested.

No vapour tests have really been done on the liquids, themselves. As in, the three or four ingredients used in them. I would welcome any such tests.

And I am positive that they will be better than smoke.

It is true that we don't know the long term effects of inhaling the ingredients. We can swallow them, but that's not inhaling.

But, again... compared to smoking? Meh.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:18:50

I have yet to read from a legitimate source of anyone dying or being seriously or terminally ill from vaping or even suffering an adverse effect from them. I'm not saying someone couldn't be allergic although I have never heard of this but I know plenty of people allergic to natural food products such as wheat, nuts, fish etc etc.

Vaping has been around a few years now, even though it is only now getting popular. when I started over 3 years ago there was many legitimate businesses selling them online. There are about 5 shops in a mile radius of me that sell them too

squoosh Sat 28-Sep-13 00:19:36

I'm unconvinced. In 20 years time there'll be a big 'uh oh, we were wrong about the safety of vaping' revelation. Doctors used to prescribe cigarettes for their health benefits not that long ago.

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 00:21:56

I'm not sure why you assume that "home-made" means that it's safe either. If anything it may be less safe than mass-produced standardised stuff.

How can you be positive that they will be safer when there is actually no research? And why do you believe vapour can't be inhaled?

squoosh Sat 28-Sep-13 00:26:29

KatyTheCleaningLady I was 'desperately gripped' by a cigarette addiction a few months ago, but at no point would I have considered vaping. I wanted to be free of addiction not swap one for another.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:29:16

I know one thing without doubt - smoking was bad for my health and could kill me and cause cancer. After my own research about the ingredients in juices I have decided they are no more of a risk than tobacco. I think that can be agreed on including the fact they are not anti social and smelly like smoke and less of a fire risk too.

As for Dr Hillary well my GP's and dentist all agree with him and they're not endorsing anything wink

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 00:30:41

Squoosh, you apparently believed that you could quit. Desparation is feeling like you can't quit.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:33:24

widow all the ingredients have been passed as food safe. Why isn't everyone including the government banning them?

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 00:34:46

Widow, I didn't say vapour can't be inhaled. confused

Home made means you know what's in it (insofar as you trust your source of the pg/vg and food flavourings.) What risks there may be from thoes chemicals as inhaled vapour I don't know. But I'm assuming they're better than smoke.

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 00:36:18

They are a fad to keep addicts hooked on the drug that they need to feel normal. Of course the authorities are going to crack onto it and tax regulate it sooner or later.

It makes me cringe when I hear addicts say that they now 'vape' wtf!

Former smoker and nicotine addict here. The thing I miss if anything is the draw of the smoke and e cigs just don't have that, but anyway keep on vaping or just go through a couple of weeks withdrawal instead, which peaks at three days then is finished in 3 weeks at the most.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:36:43

may I ask of all the anti vapers what your smoking status is? non smoker, smoker, ex smoker?

Melongena Sat 28-Sep-13 00:36:52

I can't help but compare vaping vs smoking with taking methadone vs injecting heroin.

i.e. nice new method is loads safer than the Very Bad Alternative, but really, would you want to be hooked on any of them?

I'm an ex-smoker, obviously.

squoosh Sat 28-Sep-13 00:37:15

ex smoker

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:39:37

scrazy how long have you been stopped. I admit I couldn't do it cold turkey. Did you not think the throat hit vaping and draw from vaping the same as cigs?

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 00:41:33

Ex smoker atm, who will always struggle with it tbh, this quit is 2 months last one was 2 years, 6 months ago. Maybe you have a point, but I reckon you vapours will get bored of always having to be charged up and ordering liquid off the internet when you can walk down the co-op for your fix instead.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:46:53

With the greatest of respect scrazy I have never gone back to cigs in over 3 years & I have never struggled with it at all. I can pop to my local shop for juice and my battery life lasts 8 hours so it's no more hard work as charging my phone. I presume you've tried vaping but I can't understand why you think the throat hit and draw isn't like what you get from cigs.

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 00:48:09

No forum, it was just a substitute.

I'm not judging here, I had to give up this time on Zyban tablets (Champix made me hurl) because I couldn't stand cold turkey again, I've done it a few times and it's tough. But everytime I think oh one puff.one cig stood outside the pub won't harm, I have to never think like it again. I don't want to smoke, I cannot afford it, I hate the smell, I worry I will get a smoking related disease, and I'm a non believer in all the scares, but I don't need it and quality of life is so much better being nicotine free.

But I know giving up is f--ing hard, isn't?

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 00:51:55

Giving up is hard, but I find staying off them for more than a few months impossible.

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 00:53:40

I've got to add I can't understand why you would struggle (& I would) when there is an alternative

My never smoked father had a heart bypass the month after I went to ecigs, last November I stood outside the ambulance as they brought him back to life with CPR and not once despite going through that trauma did I even want a cig. The man I'm seeing smokes and him smoking in front of me doesn't make me want or crave one

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 00:56:51

The trick is to not puff on nicotine again, get some nicotine tobacco from the health shop or some nicotine free vape, and you will find there is no satisfaction from it so no point. Even if you add some dope to the nicotine free fag would be better for you, it's not addictive.

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 00:57:41

'nicotine free tobacco' ffs

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 01:01:17

scrazy please research ecigs, juices etc. If you feel tempted to smoke try one of those instead. I don't even think about cigs. If you miss the draw and exhaling buy juice with no nicotine in it.

my other concern with stopping smoking was weight gain and my sil went from a size 12 to 20sad 3 years on I've gone up a few pounds but that may be an age thing being over 40sad smile

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 01:04:40

forum, because the only way to free you from an addiction is to get off it.

I love a drink, I don't refuse a toke, if it's wafted in my face, I've tried other stuff out of curiosity in the past but non of it is addictive to me, nicotine is, it's quite evil, imo. I need it throughout the day or I go into mild withdrawal. OK it's good that your drug isn't messing your lungs anymore with tar etc but still you are addicted. You can get off it but it takes a bit of discomfort and the will to keep of it.

Anyone who vapes if you like doing it then fine. I personally don't want to have to do it.

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 01:07:23

whats so bad about being addicted to nicotine? I'm addicted to caffeine, I dont see it as a problem

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 01:07:28

Forum, I get you, a smoke or a bit of chocolate or cake. grin

scrazy Sat 28-Sep-13 01:10:19

Lazy, caffeine is very mild stimulant, nicotine is powerful and much harder to do without.

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 01:20:09

unless nicotine is actually harmful I dont see the problem, I find it impossible to do without coffee, I drink it thoughout the day, I enjoy the effects.

I get that you personally prefer not to use nicotine but generally speaking whats the problem with being addicted to something which you enjoy doing and which does you no harm?

springybuffy Sat 28-Sep-13 01:26:43

What a miserable lot! Well, some of you. I met a RL miserable lot the other day. What a misery!

I am also evangelical though far less knowledgeable about vaping. I tried it all, many times (even acupuncture and, yes, hypnotherapy), and nothing worked. This worked overnight. I prefer it to smoking. I am overjoyed that I am no longer a smoker.

That has got to be a good thing. Be happy for me. And stop griping, you gripers.

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 01:28:49

I am overjoyed for you Springy grin

squoosh Sat 28-Sep-13 01:33:27

But why would you care that others don't share your enthusiasm?

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 01:38:38

Yeah, me too!

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 01:40:16

Nobody likes a party pooper, Squoosh.

Also, we don't want it taken away from us, which is a very real threat.

squoosh Sat 28-Sep-13 02:36:19

I won't poop at your party. But yes, I'm sure that as we speak the government are plotting ways to make this a lot more lucrative for them.

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 06:43:22

Lazy, caffeine is very mild stimulant, nicotine is powerful and much harder to do without

Nicotine is more addictive yes, but it's no worse for you in small doses than caffeine. It's effects are very similar.

As said on the other thread, the least dangerous part of smoking is, and always has been, the nicotine. It's the smoke that causes cancer & heart disease.

So all the people who keep going on about breaking the addiction are missing the point somewhat.

stillenacht Sat 28-Sep-13 07:10:08

There are so many out there its really confusing. So i have just bought menthol elites but fancy the idea of fruit etc liquids too (cigs have never really worked as an appetite depressant for me). So i guess in a few weeks I'll buy a starter kit where I can change liquids. Thanks everyone for their advice on here xxsmile

Beastofburden Sat 28-Sep-13 07:54:48

forum a never-smoker here, possibly alone on this thread? smile I think now is the time for some good professional peer reviewed research into any health issues of vaping, so people can make an informed decision.

BUT for non smokers this is potentially exciting, because what we see now is a huge effort made to help people give up smoking using all kinds of things, which has a low success rate.

I think llazy is spot on when she says some people resent vaping cos it is too easy and pleasant a way to give up fags, like having an epidural instead of screaming your way through childbirth. Me, I don't care. I just want fags to disappear off the face of the earth.

StayAwayFromTheEdge Sat 28-Sep-13 07:55:11

Olga - I did not say that Nicotine causes CVD, I did say that the CV side effects are well documented and could be a problem for patients with CVD - which many have as a result of many years of smoking.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that instead of nipping out for a cigarette every hour or so that consumers are using eCigs much more frequently and also more frequently in front of their children.

Theodorakiss Sat 28-Sep-13 07:58:53

This thread might save someone's life. Evangelise away. I do agree about the builder though, he is letting the side down

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 08:06:28

Stay

I find your attitude incomprehensible, to be honest.

While it may well be true that people use them more frequently and so on these objections pale into insignificance when compared to the almost immeasurable harm that real cigarettes cause.

Being addicted to anything may not be particularly good, but a nicotine addiction is not actually that bad - it's true that it is similar to caffeine in it's effects. Do you think that should be banned?

People have got to try and get their heads around the fact that it's the smoke that makes smoking so harmful - and vaping gets rid of that. Surely you can see that that's good?

If every smoker on earth started vaping, the death rate would plummet. And I personally think a parent vaping is better for a child than a dead or dying parent who could not stop smoking.

Some people really, really can't just stop as you seem to think they should. A healthier alternative is to be applauded....not dismissed by people who don't really know what they are talking about.

Beastofburden Sat 28-Sep-13 08:14:38

I'd like to ask stay two things:

(A) have you ever smoked?
(B) have you ever worked in the field of smoking cessation?

I can see that vaping may seem ungrateful to all those dedicated people who have tried so hard over the years to get people to quit using other means.

I would agree that vaping needs urgent research so we don't create a new health problem. Though the technique is ancient- Hubble bubble pipes have been in use for centuries in the middle east, and its a great pity that wasn't what caught on, rather than the burning variant.

But the potential is awesome.

StayAwayFromTheEdge Sat 28-Sep-13 08:20:40

The problem Tabitha is that evidence of safety has yet to be established and as such should not yet be endorsed a ground breaking alternative after carrying out a bit of internet research.

It may turn out to be as wonderful as you all report, but it still does not address the underlying addiction. The increased and widespread visual use in public and in the home is normalising "safe" nicotine use to our children and is something that I do not like.

I've seen first hand the devastating effect of long term smoking far too recently and will be hiding this thread for my own sanity.

CostaLady Sat 28-Sep-13 08:31:30

As I mentioned up thread my e-cig arrived yesterday and despite my initial scepticism, I haven't smoked since then. I'm amazed, I really am. I've been smoking for 22 years and every other attempt I've made to quit has failed.

I honestly don't quite trust how easy this is! grin

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 08:37:37

I've seen first hand the devastating effect of long term smoking far too recently

So no matter how many times it's pointed out, you absolutely cannot grasp that the effects of long term smoking are caused by smoke not nicotine?

Beastofburden Sat 28-Sep-13 08:40:43

A pity stay didn't feel able to answer my questions. We all bring some bias to this discussion, most of us have said openly what our position is. Makes it easier for others to assess the points we make.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 09:00:22

stillenacht I think you will upgrade to an ego-based kit before too long, too. smile You have time to read about it. Definitely look for a bricks and mortar vape shop near you.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 09:09:50

Testing would be lovely.

I just don't have time to wait years while the pharmaceutical and tobacco companies give reach-arounds to the government.

E cigarettes were invented by a Chinese doctor whose mother died of lung cancer. The tobacco companies have jumped on the band wagon, but the improvements to the system have been down to user-led innovations. A big part of the appeal of vaping is the freedom from the tobacco companies and ghoulish tax revenue seekers.

Melongena Sat 28-Sep-13 09:10:54

Completely ignored upthread so I'll say it again: I can't help but compare vaping vs smoking with taking methadone vs injecting heroin.

i.e. nice new method is loads safer than the Very Bad Alternative, but really, would you want to be hooked on any of them?

My thought when I see someone using an e-cig is, what a shame they haven't the strength to actually quit. And the tacky-looking e-cig shops that are popping up everywhere in empty retail units? Ugh.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 09:33:32

Methadone isn't safe without strict supervision.

And we're still using nicotine. We're just not breathing in the thousands of other vile things present in smoke.

And who gives a shit if it's "tacky?"

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 09:48:19

Melongena I find it disappointing that I don't have the strength to quit. But I try not to consider it a reflection on my character...I have been incredibly strong in other situations in life; this particular one has proven too difficult, time and time again.

Yes, I'd rather not be hooked on anything, but I am hooked on nicotine, and Diet Coke, and exercise and Daim bars. I am someone who strongly believes in the existence of the addictive personality!

If I could exchange smoking cigarettes for vaping, at the very least, I would no longer stink, nor create waste with cigarette butts. If those were the only benefits (which I don't think they are), I'd still want to switch (even if vaping were AS dangerous as smoking, which I don't believe it can be).

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 09:50:18

People seem to think that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence.

I'm an ex-smoker, I know how hard it is to quit. I don't think that someone who switched from smoke to e-cigs and has been puffing them for 3 years can claim they have quit.

I don't like that they introduce sucking on a stick back to places where it has gone from. I don't like that the idea that there's no "second hand vape", means that it's ok to use them everywhere, which normalises sucking on a stick everywhere again.

samu2 Sat 28-Sep-13 09:54:54

I love mine.

I have a tornado tank from Totally Wicked and vape Black Cat from Vapeescape.

Don't bother with the ones that look like ciggies. You really want one that you can fill yourself.

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 09:57:10

Completely ignored upthread so I'll say it again: I can't help but compare vaping vs smoking with taking methadone vs injecting heroin

You are not comparing like with like. Heroin is a deadly addiction - nicotine is not.

Again, it's the smoke that is, and always has been, harmful, not the nicotine. Until people can grasp this very important point, they are just not going to get it at all.

I don't think that someone who switched from smoke to e-cigs and has been puffing them for 3 years can claim they have quit

Well, they have. They have quit smoking. The "sucking on a stick" thing is not the deadly part of smoking, neither is the nicotine. It's the smoke. With vaping that's gone - so they are no longer smokers.

Melongena Sat 28-Sep-13 09:59:47

Katy I didn't say safe, I said safer.

Methadone is safer than injecting heroin. Methadone access is regulated and supervised and carries no injecting risks. Using methadone is a very good way of managing an opiate addiction without actually having to go through withdrawal. Some methadone users go on to quit, others stay on methadone for the rest of their lives. If a methadone user can't get access to methadone they're at real risk of going back to injecting.

Lots of similarities to vaping vs smoking as a way to manage a nicotine addiction.
Not great that they're being sold to anyone, by anyone with a bit of cash to set up a tacky e-cig shop, and made by anyone, with no quality control or safety testing.

And I care if it's tacky, my kids have to walk past our local one (which used to be the greengrocer's, cheers Tesco!) and if they were older they might pop in to see what the shiny things are and maybe give it a go, I mean, it's loads safer than smoking, innit?

samu2 Sat 28-Sep-13 10:02:28

I went from 40 a day to not even missing it with my e-cig.

Dh went from 40-50 a day to one a day. He still has that one in the morning that he won't quit but one a day compared to 40-50? I will take it!

I have been quit for over a year and a half now. Every time I quit in the past I missed smoking daily, now you couldn't pay me to go back.

I don't care that I still use nicotine. Why would I? nicotine has some benefits and no worse than caffeine.

WidowWadman Sat 28-Sep-13 10:02:37

The British Medical Association does not seem to agree with the idea that e-cigs don't contain harmful stuff.

samu2 Sat 28-Sep-13 10:03:46

Oh and FFS I do not smoke!! I vape. I am a non smoker!

Dawndonnaagain Sat 28-Sep-13 10:04:34

I too gave up after using one of these. Hadn't had a fag since January 2012. Haven't needed the ecig since March 2012. Feels great after 35 odd years of being a smoker.

Melongena Sat 28-Sep-13 10:07:43

Tabitha heroin isn't necessarily a deadly addiction, some people manage to carry on an opioid addiction without harm for their entire lives, with good dosage control and careful injecting technique.
Most heroin addicts can't control those things so oral methadone in controlled doses is a better alternative.

Yeah, so you've found a better way of getting a nicotine hit, great. Even better once it's regulated and quality controlled.
Vapers are still addicted though, like a methadone patient who would go back to injecting if there's no methadone available, they'd go back to smoking in the blink of an eye. Still addicted, see?

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 10:09:22

Widow

The BMA also say:

'Where a patient is unable or unwilling to use or continue to use an approved and tested nicotine replacement therapy, health professionals may advise patients that while e-cigarettes are unregulated and their safety cannot be assured, they are likely to be a lower risk option than continuing to smoke.'

That's good enough for me. Not 'no risk', but 'lower risk'. I am not taking up vaping with the intention of doing it for evermore. I am trying it as part of the process of stopping using nicotine completely.

Melongena Sat 28-Sep-13 10:10:46

Well done Dawn! It's a great feeling, isn't it? I'm so glad it worked for you, especially after all those years, kudos to you! grin

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 10:38:36

Melongena
My thought when I see someone using an e-cig is, what a shame they haven't the strength to actually quit. And the tacky-looking e-cig shops that are popping up everywhere in empty retail units? Ugh.

clearly you are just making a moral judgment about people who do things that you dont approve of instead of choosing abstinence & self denial.

As for calling the shops tacky, well so what, thats just your subjective opinion which arises out of your dislike of smoking & vaping.

Nicotine is a harmless mild stimulant, the problem is with the delivery method (ie smoking) not the substance itself.

If someone is addicted to something harmless & pleasurable so what, I'm addicted to reading books, I spend alot of time looking for my next hit, and quite alot of my disposable income on books, I have to have a book on the go or I cant function.
Is that a bad thing, ought I to try and break my addiction?

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 10:50:18

And your heroin vs methodone analogy is just a bit of cheap rhetoric designed to further demonize smokers who switch to vaping

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 10:57:50

Hi Katy,

I have looked at the site you linked to, but I don't understand what the difference is between 'mostly PG, 50/50, and VG only' when buying the liquid?

Please could you explain. It seems very complicated to me to start up, although I really want to give it a go.

Do I only need a couple of ego/ce4 blister packs (£7 each) and some juice to get started? And which juice should I go for? PG, 50/50 or VG only? I don't understand the difference or what it means. blush

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 11:00:02

Melongena

Well I think your comparison is problematic, but let's go with it.

Do you think methadone should be banned? What's the difference between injecting heroin & drinking methadone then?

Huge differences, as you know. It's a way of trying to manage an addiction safely.

This is what vaping is doing, so what's the problem?

Do you think NRTs should be banned as well? That's just another way of delivery the fix too?

If you don't, then what on earth is your problem with vaping?

I cannot stress this enough - small doses of nicotine are not harmful to human health, at least no more than caffeine is. So really, who cares if I or anyone else chooses to stay addicted to nicotine forever if it's not particularly harmful?

Smoke is what is harmful with smoking - just like, much of the time, dirty needles & overdose is what's truly harmful with heroin addiction. Although heroin has a MUCH greater effect on health than nicotine so I think it's a very poor comparison.

Beastofburden Sat 28-Sep-13 11:00:41

Tbh I don't see the methadone comparison as such an insult. As a matter of public policy, we want smokers to do less harm to themselves, their kids and their colleagues. We spend a fortune on smoking bans, cessation programmes, etc. After years and years of attempts, we still have no easy, fail safe way of curing an addiction to smoking.

So what is wrong with finding a way for addicted smokers to manage that addiction while minimising harm? That's the approach we take with every other addictive substance.

Assuming its true. A big caveat for me is we need regulation and research as fast as possible, so people can buy from safe suppliers and they know the score, on mouth cancer for instance.

Kids are attracted to fags anyway. The eCig thing is quite sobering for them- once you start, you may become truly hooked, look at all these people who are stuck with it.

As a never-smoker there is no way I would vape based it becoming normalised. It doesn't sound all that wonderful. I drink and eat chocolate instead.

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 11:01:35

My thought when I see someone using an e-cig is, what a shame they haven't the strength to actually quit

And, honestly, my thought when I see something like this is "mind your own business".

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 11:05:09

Heroin isn't all that harmful. ..constipation is about the worst effect, it's the life style and the problems concomitant with it's illegality which cause the problems

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 11:09:01

I'm a non smoker who is tempted to try vaping as a way to get the benefits of nicotine without any harmful effects, I could have the boost of a coffee and a fag when I get up without doing myself any harm at all grin grin

TabithaCampbellBlack Sat 28-Sep-13 11:10:33

Well, yes, that's true, Suzanne - one reason why I think drugs should be legalized. But that's a whole other thread wink

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 11:13:09

A whole other thread and a massive can of worms!

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 11:17:30

littlemiss I had the same confusion and found this on a forum:

'E-liquid is a mixture of varying amounts of about 4 different ingredients. Nicotine, PG (propylene glycol), VG (vegetable glycerin) and flavoring. Some liquids can have additional ingredients, but for the most part, these are the main ingredients to all e-liquid.

The amount of nicotine is dependent on the strength of nicotine in your e-liquid, but let’s say it is around 10% nicotine. Somewhere around 10% of your e-liquid will be flavoring. That leaves 80% of the liquid in your bottle for fillers, which dilute the flavoring and the nicotine. This is where PG and VG come in, and depending on how you like your vape, that determines the percentage of PG and VG in your e-liquid.

Vegetable Glycerin (VG) is a thick, sweet liquid.
VG produces luscious clouds of vapor. VG also imparts a sweeter taste to your liquid.
Simplified, VG gives more vapor and is sweeter. The more % of VG, the thicker the e-juice.

Propylene Glycol (PG) is a much thinner tasteless liquid. PG produces more of a “throat hit” (TH) than VG does, which simulates the feel of smoking better.
PG also has a higher rate of sensitivity for some people, meaning that some people just can’t use PG in their vape.
The more % of VP, the thinner the e-juice.

So, 50%PG/50%VG is an equal mix of TH and vapor.

My recommendation is to start out with a 50/50 mix of PG and VG in your e-liquid. Then after you have tried it, you can make adjustments on your next order. If you aren’t getting enough throat hit to satisfy you, then next time try a 30/70 VG/PG mix. If you want more pillowy clouds of smoke, then maybe a 70/30 VG/PG mix is for you.'

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 11:36:02

Thank you so much waterlego. That makes a lot of sense.

I usually smoke 120 cigarettes a week. sad

They are 10mg tar, 0.9mg Nicotine.

I'm not sure which strength liquid to buy tbh.

Katy said something about most smokers needing 5mg a day to start, but then said she only spends approx. £10 a month on liquid.

I'm sure once I get started, it will all fall into place, but I am hoping to initially replace cigarettes with vapouring, so don't really want to spend lots on starting off only to end up buying cigarettes too.

Any suggestions?

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 11:38:11

I suppose I want to initially set myself up for a week or two, and see how I get on?

That will hopefully give me 2 weeks to play around with it and see how I get on. I don't want to be buying cigarettes as well though.

Vapers are still addicted though, like a methadone patient who would go back to injecting if there's no methadone available, they'd go back to smoking in the blink of an eye. Still addicted, see?

Evidence for this?

Some would, sure. I believe most wouldn't. Several people here have said that they would not go back to smoking now; you probably don't believe them. But I can categorically state that if all of my vape gear disappeared right now, I would not go and buy tobacco. I'd be pissed off and miss my mint candy and gingerbread flavours, but I would not go back to smoking BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE SAME THING. I had a rolly at a festival a few weeks ago, just out of curiosity. It was gross! I have also, several times in the beginning, found myself without spare batteries, or running out of juice or whatever. No sense of panic. Didn't go down the shop for tobacco. Was perfectly able to wait a couple of days for more vape stuff to arrive in the post. Why did I order more, why didn't I just stop and bask in my puritan strength of character, you ask? Because I like it. It's a little, relatively harmless pleasure, and if it wasn't this, it would be cake, or crisps, or sweet tea.

Some of us aren't paragons. Some of us like to indulge a little. It's not hurting you, so why on earth do you care?

I mean, really. Go and campaign about alcohol if you've a bee in your bonnet about people enjoying dangerous, addictive, appealing-to-teenagers substances in public. I'd rather see a vape shop than a Bargain Booze on my high street.

Oh, and an interesting anecdote about nicotine addiction. Purely anecdotal, it's not evidence or anything, but I thought I'd share.

When I switched to vaping from smoking, I chose low-nicotine liquids. For about a week, every night, I experienced very vivid, weird, disturbing dreams. I did my usual panic-Google, and after a bit of discussion on various forums, during which many people likened this to their experiences with Champix - a side-effect of nicotine withdrawal. So I was getting quite a bit less nicotine from vaping than my body was used to from smoking. You'd think that if the swapping-one-addiciton-for-another crowd were right, I'd have felt unsatisfied and either upped the nic content or run cravenly back to the smokes. But no. The dreams stopped, and I continued with the low-nic juice until it ran out, and the next batch I ordered were lower still. Next time I order they will be zero-nic.

NatashaGurdin Sat 28-Sep-13 12:17:26

I'm a non smoker and have never even tried it but I think anything that helps smokers give up is a good thing. Obviously it would be great if all smokers could give up using will power, patches etc but that's not going to happen with the seriously addicted so if this helps then that's a benefit. What is also good surely is that if smokers switch to vaping and stop smoking there will be a reduction in passive smoking. I loathe the smell of cigarettes etc and as I have asthma that is triggered (among other things) by cigarette smoke this would benefit people like me (I can't be the only one who has smoke as a trigger).

forumdonkey Sat 28-Sep-13 12:27:14

* I don't think that someone who switched from smoke to e-cigs and has been puffing them for 3 years can claim they have quit.*

Of course I have quit because I haven't smoked tobacco for 3 years. I don't buy, use or smoke cigarettes. I don't smoke I vape they are completely different. No lighting up, no burning, no tar, no foul smell, no smoke, no ash. They are not tabacco FFS

Lazysuzanne Sat 28-Sep-13 12:32:58

yes! all this 'you cant claim that you've quit' stuff is about wanting to take the moral high ground.

I say get off your high horse lady wink

CostaLady Sat 28-Sep-13 12:33:02

There's a difference between quitting smoking and quitting nicotine. For me, for now, I will be happy to say I've quit smoking with the help of an e-cigarette with a view to ending my addiction to nicotine.

Viviennemary Sat 28-Sep-13 12:33:07

I only heard of them a few weeks ago. So will people be able to smoke them in non-smoking zones. They do sound like a good idea.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 13:22:05

Melongina -*"And I care if it's tacky, my kids have to walk past our local one (which used to be the greengrocer's, cheers Tesco!) and if they were older they might pop in to see what the shiny things are and maybe give it a go, I mean, it's loads safer than smoking, innit?"*

So would you prefer your teenager to walk into Tesco, Asda, an off license, a garage, a corner shop etc to buy some cigarettes to try? As much as we are campaigning and highlighting dangers, 23% of teenagers tried smoking in 2012.

FloralPuddles Sat 28-Sep-13 13:43:52

I gave up smoking five months ago after years of being addicted. I heard about these e-cigs but I did not want to swap one addiction for another, I wanted to be completely free from the tie. I don't have to worry if I have cigs/supplies/wondering where I can smoke them when at a new place e.t.c. which is how it use to be when I was smoking 'proper' cigs! It just seemed like a straight swap and was not for me.

I do think these are better than people smoking proper fags and that is how I associate them, I think to myself "at least they are not smoking", I associate them rightly or wrongly with the addiction of smoking.

I am no health professional as such but I do have to disagree with the previous comment made about nicotine not being harmful and it was just the delivery of it ( traditional smoking) that caused harm, nicotine does have a lot of risks including raising blood pressure and messing with our insulin systems.

But overall I do think they are much BETTER than smoking and would rather anyone that I loved used these than smoke proper cigs.

MrsHoolie Sat 28-Sep-13 13:44:11

I have used an ecig (jacvapour)for nearly two years now as haven't had a real fag in that time.
I've got a few smokers into them. At work there are only a couple of smokers and quite a few vapours.
The only time I've managed to quit real cigs was when I was pregnant.
I love my ecigs!My favourite is bubblegum flavour at the moment.

MistressDeeCee Sat 28-Sep-13 15:45:56

I like smoking & am happy to have been on e-cigs for 6 months now. I'm harming anybody else so couldn't care less about moralists.

When I smoked real cigs I DID feel I was causing harm. Others around me being forced to passive smoke, speaking to people (especially children) just after I'd had a cigarette bothered me the most. My teens were asked if they smoke - no, they don't. They hate it. But the smell of my cigarette smoke was all over them. Now I'm glad I, my home, & people around me don't stink of cigarette smoke. I feel much healthier, & motivated to exercise more.

I tried Champix when I 1st thought I should give up. I miss it as it made me feel sooooo mellow about life! But hey..I like smoking & don't want to give up really so as long as e-cigs are available, I'll keep on. I don't smoke openly in indoor venues but have been known to have sneaky puffs where its not obvious. No-one even notices or comments -theres no smell. Smoked one in cinema last night. At least I'm no longer inhaling almost 4000 chemicals including rat poison & arsenic, & inflicting my addiction on those around me.I'm not giving up my smoking pleasure, I'll leave the moralists up on their soapbox thanks smile

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Sat 28-Sep-13 16:09:49

Vaping as I type. DP and I last smoked 3 years ago. We have saved about £10000 in that period. Our clothes no longer smell. Our house no longer smells. Who cares what anyone else thinks. grin

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 19:31:59

To all the people who have replaced cigarettes with vaping, what have you noticed the biggest differences are?

I have given up smoking a number of times, and always gone back onto them, but whilst I wasn't smoking, I noticed my teeth were distinctly whiter. Shallow maybe, but is it the nicotine that causes teeth to get discoloured, or is it the other rubbish in cigarettes? (Same goes for the ageing of the skin, discoloured fingers, gum disease etc.)

Also, how many cigarettes did you smoke before vaping, and what strength juice did you find you needed at first?

MistressDeeCee Sat 28-Sep-13 20:37:16

Im curious about vaping, having read thru this thread. Im on e-cigs so I guess this is something different? Anyway littlemiss...

My teeth are whiter
So are the windows in my house, I didnt realise nicotine made them filthy!
I think its the combination of the chemicals in cigaretters that discolour the teeth.

Id say with buying the e-cig top up cartridges Im spending £20 weekly. Thats still far less than I spent on cigarettes tho..with buying a pack of 20 a day sometimes extra pack at weekend, it was double that amount. but, does vaping work out cheaper?

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 20:50:10

Thanks Mistress. Your post is really helpful. Is there a difference between vaping and e-cigs then?

I'm also interested at how cheaply vaping works out to be.

MistressDeeCee Sat 28-Sep-13 21:00:02

This part of the OP:

a week's worth of juice for £10. The hardware was less than £20 to get started and will require only £10 a month going forward

Im sure she's given advice on where to get juice etc on thread, but I cant find it now. If I could just spend £10 a week tho, Id be very happy with that...! Although I suppose it depends how heavy a smoker you were/are. I do like my e-cigs..I have 3 batteries (batteries cost £10 each but I wanted spares for when Im on a long night out which is why I bought extra). I charge up battery via USB which is very easy. I couldnt get away with 1 pack of cartridges a week tho (thats £10) I go through 2. But as said, still much cheaper than smoking and without the smell and increased health risks

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 21:04:08

Whether you use an ecig that looks like this (top end personal vaporiser) or this (entry level pv) or one like this (known as a 'cigalike') you are vaping rather than smoking.

The experience you get from a cigalike is enough for some to give up smoking but you will get a far better experience from a personal vaporiser (pv) like the first 2. It will also work out far cheaper.

About the cheapest pv you can buy is this one at £7. You will then need to buy ejuice (or liquid with nicotine in) These cost around £5 to £10 for 30ml. Most vapers will use around 3ml a day. Nicotine strength wise, if you smoke more than a pack a day you should start on 24mg, 15-20 a day 18mg and less than that 12mg. The part that you put the liquid in is called a clearomiser and will last from 2-6 weeks. Basic ones cost around £4.

So as you can see far cheaper than buying disposable ecigs like Nicolites or Elites and their expensive cartridges.

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 21:13:28

Thanks nbee84.

I usually buy 120 cigarettes a week, so that works out at about 18 cigs a day. Am undecided whether to get 18mg or 24mg. hmm

littlemisssarcastic Sat 28-Sep-13 21:21:24

Think I will try both 18mg and 24mg and see which I get on with better. grin

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 21:21:34

15 to 20 cigs a day I'd go for 18mg. Always buy small bottles of liquid to start with until you know the flavours you like to vape - it's worth buying a fruity flavour and a menthol (lots that hated menthol cigs quite enjoy a menthol vape) A popular tobacco flavour is RY4 - a sweet caramel tobacco.

If you get the 18mg and find yourself craving a cigarette then try the 24mg strength.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 21:25:11

Some find that they need the 24mg at the start of the day when the craving is strongest - or during the day if they only have a quick break at work and the chance to vape - and then use 18mg the rest of the time.

I was a 10 a day smoker on a week day and a 20 a day smoker on a weekend and was fine on 18mg - no craving for a fag at all.

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 21:27:46

nbee You are a very useful person to have around! I read some of your posts on the other thread that Katy mentioned.

I have ordered 18mg juices. I smoke rollies- between 15-20 a day. I have ordered the RY4 on your recommendation; a lemon menthol and applegranite. I am VERY excited.

I have also discovered a vape shop in my town. I've already ordered my starter kit etc online, but will see how I go with that and then go along to the shop to have a look and a try of some of the more sophisticated pvs.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 21:48:17

Like Katy, I'm quite evangelical as being a 30 year smoker that's tried quite a few times to give up cold turkey and with various nrt's, vaping really has worked for me - and I knew it had worked within days. When I've given up smoking before I have managed between 7 days and 18 months! But what each of those attempts had in common was the fact that I craved a cigarette every day that I was a non smoker (and the fact that I went back to the fags every time!) There are lots that argue against it, but I tend to ignore as I am happy quite happy with my 'risk reduction' and know that without it I would still be smoking cigarettes.

I'll offer advice to anyone that wants to know more. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but have read a fair bit - both before deciding to try vaping myself and since I started vaping 7 months ago.

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 21:55:09

Well done nbee, so pleased the vaping has worked so well for you. I am hopeful it could work for me. I've smoked for 20 years...actually about 22 now I think about it. I have lost count of the number of times I've stopped or tried to stop. I stopped for a year each time I was pregnant and then started again (both times, the usual 'just one' on a night out). I have tried cold turkey, various types of NRT, hypnotherapy, Allen Carr, Champix... I have recently come to the conclusion that I just can't do it and the thought of smoking forever has been horribly depressing.

I do have another question...when you started vaping, did you stop smoking cigarettes straight away, or did you continue to smoke while you made the transition?

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 21:57:10

And good luck waterlego - let me know how you get on. I love to hear the success stories smile My Mum smoked for over 50 years - was quite a hardened smoker and didn't want to give up, but after listening to me and asking lots of questions I bought her one of the basic kits and told her to have a go. I expected her to say "tried it, not for me" but within 2 weeks of starting she cut out the cigs completely and hasn't smoked for 5 months now. My Auntie, nearly 50 years of smoking started a couple of weeks later and hasn't smoked since.

Another piece of advice - not everyone goes straight from smoking to vaping. A lot will cut out some of their cigarettes by vaping and over a few weeks find they prefer their vaping to smoking and then cut out the cigarettes. I bought my kit with that intention but actually found that vaping was for me from the first go and 17 B&H are still in the box in my cupbaord, not once have I wanted to smoke one of them! Remember... count the cigarettes you don't smoke, not the ones you do.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 21:58:30

Cross posts, but answered your question grin

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 22:01:07

Fantastic advice and encouragement, thank you.

I am going to start it with the intention of gradually replacing cigarettes with vaping, but who knows, maybe I will instantly prefer it, as you did. Will let you know how I get on smile

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 22:01:55

I should have bought the kit recommended by nbee84 but didn't quite trust the website! Now I know it's considered good and that very item has lots of glowing reviews.

I ended up with a very reputable vendor that has fair prices and a good website that explains things like "replacement clearomizers are linked below." If anyone wants to have a browse, it's vapeescape.co.uk.

£10 a week on juice is a rough guess. I buy from a shop that sells 3x10ml bottles for £10. I can't tell you how much I'm using because I've bought over a dozen flavours now and I keep switching between them. I read somewhere that a head will last about 20ml-30ml. I've also heard 2-4 weeks. The math is obviously imprecise because people use more or less.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 22:04:27

I bought my first kit from vape escape too Katy grin Kevin is the vendor and he and his team will answer any questions if you email them.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 22:06:12

By the way, I took the tram into Manchester today and vaped everywhere. Nobody noticed. Not even the woman sitting next to me on then tram. It's possible to stealth vape insituations like on a bus or train. You cover any LED lights on the device with your hand and hold your breath about five seconds before exhalling...no vapour.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sat 28-Sep-13 22:07:16

Vape Escape is local to me! Just as soon as I can drive again, I intend to pop over for a look at their shop.

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 22:12:22

Oooh, I've got another question (I'm on a roll)... katy when you say you switch between your flavours, do you mean you can do that from one vape to the next? I had the impression that you had to fill the chamber thingy with juice and then get through that juice before filling it up with something else. Is that not the case?

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 22:17:36

You just buy lots of the clearomisers (chamber thingys) grin When I first started I liked to change flavours quite a lot - I had loads! But now, though I have quite a few clearos filled with various flavours, I tend to just vape on 2 main ones (that I make myself - that's another thread when you're a bit more experienced, lol!)

waterlego Sat 28-Sep-13 22:19:31

Oh wow, so much to learn! Thank you very much. smile

TheFutureMrsB Sat 28-Sep-13 22:57:38

Oooh, I did try vaping a few months back and went back to the fags, but my DP stuck at it and then came down with tonsillitis meaning he couldn't vape because it hurt his throat so has managed to give up completely since getting better, I think it's been about 3 weeks now and while he still sometimes fancies a fag he doesn't have one so I think he will be fine, me on the other hand blush am useless!
Think I'm going to start on the vape again tomorrow as it seems a waste of money not to use it, but it hurts my throat, like it sticks iyswim!

ILoveOnionRings Sat 28-Sep-13 23:02:54

I smoked around 15-18 a day and have not had a ciggie for 30 days.

I had inspiration from one of these threads, had a look at different sites then took the plunge and bought a starter kit. It took me about 3 days to get used to vaping (finished the box of ciggies). I found for the first 10 days they took the edge off the craving and I know I am definitely not vaping anywhere near as much as I was smoking. For example I do not have a vape until at least 10:30am, I used to have a ciggie first thing in the morning as I let the dog out, another after a shower and one more on the drive to work and then another around 9:30am.

I still go outside if I fancy a go both at home and at work. I am looking to use the vapestick as an aide to quit all together and it has helped but if it takes another 12 months or longer to be completely without nicotine then so be it. I feel really proud that I have made the first step to quitting and without the vapestick to aide me then I still would be smoking cigarettes.

My teeth are definitely whiter, my clothes do not smell, I feel healthier and I am saving loads of money. DH is looking at them now and he has smoked for over 30 years.

nbee84 Sat 28-Sep-13 23:12:47

TheFutureMrsB - you could try 2 things for your throat, a lower nicotine strength or a liquid that is more VG than PG, some people find PG can irritate their throats. Also. make sure you are drinking plenty of water.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 29-Sep-13 00:09:08

I am learning pretty quick. It's easier once you've got it in your hand, and there are lots of youtube videos and stuff. And when you find a decent shop you can see the stuff while asking question.

MistressDeeCee Sun 29-Sep-13 00:27:46

nbee84 really useful info, love it!

Im using a cigalike. I do like it as it looks & feels like a normal cigarette. However I may just try a personal vaporiser and see how I go with that alongside. I could never work out whether that way was cheaper or not, but can see from your info that, pv is cheaper.

I do like both the throat hit & the tobacco taste, tho. Wouldnt want menthol or fruit flavours. Im hoping to find a flavour which does taste like tobacco..which is best for the throat hit? Im sure it was mentioned earlier in thread but I cant find it now..

off to check out Vape Escape..smile

MistressDeeCee Sun 29-Sep-13 00:42:14

Sorry, meant Paradise Vape. Had a quick look through products & reviews, and Im going to order so thanks for the heads up nbee84 Im also going to pass info on to my BIL..heavy smoker also interested in switching to vaping.

nbee84 Sun 29-Sep-13 10:48:19

Best for throat hit will be a PG heavy juice - 80/20. PG gives you throat hit, VG gives you vapour.

Most new vapers think they want a flavour that closely resembles their cigarettes but honestly it's worth trying a couple of other flavours too. There are some good tobacco flavours out there but you won't find one that's exactly the same as your preferred brand of cigarettes.

waikikamookau Sun 29-Sep-13 11:04:12

i use mine, really enjoy it, I have coffee flavour, I don't really know what the parts are called though.
there is a ? cartomiser with string, dh wondered if you could just replace the string.
however, if they are called cartomisers, or chambers, or whatever. how often do you change them, or the bit with the string? one colleague changes hers every day! when I went into my local shop they said one or two weeks, when the taste is burning.

waikikamookau Sun 29-Sep-13 11:05:23

had a bad day yesterday when it wasn't charging, and I believe the battery lasts 6 months,
but it was ok after a recharge. <<panic>>

waikikamookau Sun 29-Sep-13 11:11:04

I think I have been vaping for a month, did not get exact date. dh not doing so well I believe but we smoked roll ups before, he buys a very small packet for £5 occasionally, and my god how small that packet looks!

waikikamookau Sun 29-Sep-13 11:12:46

initially I was having an occasional roll up but couldn't get the hit, presumably because I now get the hit from my e cig/vapouriser, and I cant believe how quick I smoke a cig! disappointment

since then I really notice the smell and have been washing the curtains and closing doors when anyone is smoking outside!

waikikamookau Sun 29-Sep-13 11:57:48

www.vapingvision.co.uk/
this is who I use

ilovesooty Sun 29-Sep-13 22:03:02

I have been vaping since the end of June. I'd recommend it to anyone wanting to give up cigarettes.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 29-Sep-13 22:05:21

I'm worried about the EU vote on the 8th of October that would make them treated as medicine.

Can you all give me a bit of support tonight. .. im struggling ive been vaping for 6 days and tonight for some reason I really want a cigarette and im not sure why sad vaping like mad but I just feel like im missing something sad(

Ive been so so proud of myself and really dont want to go back xx

littlemisssarcastic Sun 29-Sep-13 22:26:12

What would this mean if Ecigs were deemed to be medicine Katy?

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 29-Sep-13 23:19:43

fiesty I hope you get through the night ok. How high is your nicotine and how much did you used to smoke?

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 29-Sep-13 23:21:26

littlemiss I'm not completely sure. But they would have to be tested a bunch and couldn't be bought just any old place if at all.

Bombjack Sun 29-Sep-13 23:54:50

This thread is interesting reading. I'm an ex-smoker myself, and it took much sweat & tears to give up. I haven't had a relapse in 2 years, but I become DESPERATE for a ciggie at parties or in the pub.

Might get an e-cig to use at times like this. Lot of good info in this thread! Lots of ex-smokers at my work all troop outside to Vape now. One bloke was a heart attack sufferer, and was recommended e-cigs by his doctor. Said he wouldn't go back to fags now.

One problem on the horizon though! Vaping seems to be too damn good. The government is going to want its slice, as it will begin to lose Excise Duty on tobacco if these continue to take off. I expect taxation, or "safety" regulation, soon sad.

MistressDeeCee Mon 30-Sep-13 00:01:45

Bombjack thats it exactly, the government & tobacco companies want a slice of this, theyre not going to let us get away with doing our own thing. I definetely expect hike in prices/taxation. All I hope is that they arent banned due to 'not being tested as safe'..a massive cheek, given that cigarettes are DEFINETELY unsafe! But its too good to be true that they wont find ways to make vaping more difficult...

squoosh Mon 30-Sep-13 02:15:45

Bombjack if you're desperate for a fag well then read the Allen Carr book, no need to fanny around with vaping.

Actual nicotine addiction is tiny, the nicotine replacement industry has a huge interest in making you think that stopping smoking is oh so difficult. It really isn't.

TabithaCampbellBlack Mon 30-Sep-13 06:04:18

Bombjack if you're desperate for a fag well then read the Allen Carr book, no need to fanny around with vaping

Well, marvellous that reading a book helped you personally and everything but, guess what, it doesn't work for everyone hmm

Morning Katy I fell asleep last night so made it through smile feeling va bit more positive this morning. .
I got the 18mg?? Nicotine one.. I was smoking about 15 a day.. I had 2 left in a drawer and woke up this morning and ripped them up.. it was like they were shouting me smile)) xx

stillenacht Mon 30-Sep-13 08:20:08

Hoping my order will arrive soon smile have now ordered a CE4 EGO as well as my elites.

Just want to stop smoking!!smile

I want to give this a go. I live near a No Match shop and I'm thinking of having a wander down there later on but I don't know what I am looking for in there.

Can anybody give me an idea of the basics that I should be looking for at No Match ?

Bombjack Mon 30-Sep-13 09:02:11

Hehe I'm fine normally. The problem is, that over the 10 years or so I smoked, I developed an association between alcohol and cigs. A very strong one.

I rarely drink now the kids have come along. Just occasional weddings, birthdays, etc. But the need for nicotine/cigs is very strong once I'm past the 2 pint mark grin

Not sure how the government is going to handle this one. On the one hand, it's a nicotine replacement therapy, and the only one that seems to really get and keep people off tobacco. One the other, the government have a £12.1 billion pot of tax revenue at stake. I think they'll dream up some "elf 'n safety" rules to control e-cigs. Seems that they are going down that route already.

waikikamookau Mon 30-Sep-13 09:30:57

actually there are people that use nicotine replacement therapy for long. my dh used it for ages, it is just the NICE guidelines have a time limit, but there is nothing to stop people keep using the patches.

that is not an argument in favour of NRT, since it didn't work for me, but the vaporiser has!

Right.

I have done it

Ordered a beginners ecig - rechargeable doodah with cartridges, a pack of high strength and a pack of regular strength menthol. 5 cartridges at roughly equivalent to a pack per cartridge, are 6.99 so a vast amount cheaper than fags.

I went with Ten Motives because my SIL recommended them and the stuff with the liquids is too complicated for me right now grin

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 09:57:50

fiesty I think you're on the right level of nicotine. You might want to try a 24mg for when the craving gets really bad.

I also think that if you eventually break down and smoke a fag, you will be disgusted by it.

But I hope it doesn't come to that. smile

As a result of this thread I have just been out and bought a kit. I hope it works.

I think it might come to that katy sad xx

magimedi Mon 30-Sep-13 10:11:22

I tried a fag (roll up) about a week after I had started e cigs. It was the most disgusting thing ever - I had to go & rinse my mouth out & spit & eat mints to take the taste away.

And, unlike when I given up cold turkey, I now loathe the smell of fags - I find them truly repulsive.

Good Luck fiesty - lets us know how it goes.

sad ive just had one but you were right I now feel disgusting... but ive just been looking at the liquid I use and its 11mg im wondering if its a bit low?? Xx

waikikamookau Mon 30-Sep-13 10:54:54

I use 18 mg

how often to change the thing with the wick? anyone know, not sure whether it is called a cartomiser or what
I have a disposable wick thingy, you just replace it but anyone know when?

Beastofburden Mon 30-Sep-13 10:55:57

I have learned something important from this thread.

Before, when smokers went out for a fag and then came back and sat next to me at work, or blew their smoke over me outside a restaurant, I would smile sweetly, try not to cough my way into an asthma attack, and think inside "selfish bastards: they KNOW how disgusting this is for me, they just don't care- give me a knife and a dark alley..."

You can laugh but it is really helping me to realise that while you are still a smoker you don't realise how much it stinks and so forth. So I can stop thinking my smoker friends don't care about me smile

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 11:08:35

binky Get a basic ego style battery to start with, then they will show you the various options for things that fit it. Ego batteries have two screw threads so they can take most cartridges and atomizers. They will let you try things out, especially flavours.

Katy, I've been. I've got a kit that includes 2 batteries and 4 atomisers (not sure I will need all them) full charging kit and 5 liquids, 3 tobacco, 1 vanilla and 1 mint.

I am vaping as I type, I really want to roll a fag, I'm craving the ritual involved in smoking not the smoking itself. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this working.

meddie Mon 30-Sep-13 11:29:11

Another absolute onvert here.
Gave up in january from 30 a day. Have introduced my mum to them (40 a day smoker for 57 years) she gave up overnight.

I make my own juices, they are really easy to make, and after the initial outlay for the nicotine base liquid it works out about a quarter of the cost of buying pre made ones.I also get to control the nicotine content that way and am slowly weaning. Have gone from 18mg to 8mg and intend to reduce it by a mg a month until I,m free.

meddie Mon 30-Sep-13 11:30:34

waikikamookau you will know when to replace the wick. it will either stop working 9no vapour) or it will taste burnt.

waikikamookau Mon 30-Sep-13 11:31:45

thanks meddie

leylandii Mon 30-Sep-13 12:07:45

meddie - a quick question. I have a tank one, have not changed the coil and wick yet (3 weeks in) my liquid is not tasting quite the same but still get plenty of vapour etc, does that mean the coil needs to be changed or do i wait til no vapour too? I have spare coils and wicks.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 12:29:07

Leylandi, I think some liquids will start to clog/build up in the wicks. If you change the coil, that should sort it. How long you been using that one?

Binky, I think a lot of people struggle with the odd little bits of the ritual that aren't there anymore. For a couple of days, I sometimes went outside my kitchen door to smoke because that was what I was used to.

I still vaguely miss something about cigarettes. Can't put my finger on what. I'm hoping that vaping will replace all of that in my mind.

When people say that they quit instantly, I think that it can give the imoression that this is completely effortless. I think most people go through an adjustment. But I know many people try a fag and no longer enjoy it.

meddie Mon 30-Sep-13 12:50:23

As katy said. The coils do get coated and lose some efficiency. You can either replace or clean. I usually try a clean and dry burn first . You can usually find a video tutorial for this on you tube.

Nest0fVapors Mon 30-Sep-13 12:52:28

I love the way you have become such a convert in only a week or so katy, good on you! grin

leylandii Mon 30-Sep-13 13:21:46

ok thanks, what is a dry burn?

I had a rechargeable ecig which was brilliant and used that for 9 months til the batt etc were begininng to give up the ghost (Jacvapour VP1 starter kit) so upgraded to a tnak system around 3 to 4 weeks ago. Am quite a heavy vapour so with the change in taste I wondered if it was time for a coil change. Do you clean it as in water? or wipe the crap off with kitch roll etc?

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 13:22:02

I need to look up how to dry burn. Haven't needed to do it, yet. And I've got 12 flavours on the go, so I'm not likely to need to for a while.

the cheap and cheerful clearos are often fully disposable. I have some that are cheap and can take new coils, but I'm not sure I'll bother. I am trying out some of the nicer ones, and getting coils for them, because at £8-£12 apiece, I'd rather hang on to them.

The nicer ones are less likely to leak or sputter (which happens when the liquid gets into the air tube. It can end up in your mouth and isn't pleasant.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 13:22:57

Nest, I have really gotten into this. Done a lot of reading and I'm starting to figure out what all the jargon means.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 13:27:22

By the way, you have to learn how to draw on them. It's not the same as a cigarette.

You don't want to draw to fast. Some people suck furiously on cigarettes. If you do that. you won't get a satisfying amount of vapour. Draw steadily and gently for about five seconds into your mouth, not lungs.

Also,if you cover the tiny air holes at the bottom of the clearo, you will get a less airy draw. You can even suck harder that way, if you need the feeling of taking a strong pull. Some people put the tip of a toothpick in one of the holes and break it off in there to achieve this.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 13:28:50

apparently, the majority of nicotine is absorbed by mucous membranes in the mouth, nose, and sinuses. some people vape like they're smoking a cigar and don't draw into the lungs at all.

ginmakesitallok Mon 30-Sep-13 13:29:08

To clean my heads I stick them in some vodka for a couple of hours, dry them off, stick them on my battery and then dry burn them. Basically I give them 4 or 5 second bursts, watch the coils and once they glow red and stop smoking they are done (if there's a top cap bit you have to remove that first so you can see the coils)

onlysettleforbutterflies Mon 30-Sep-13 13:37:45

I have had my e cig sat waiting for the 'right' time for months. After reading this thread, I've decided tomorrow is the right time, I feel ready for it and quite excited. Got it all set up and ready to go, I currently smoke about 10 really light ones a day, but don't want to and can't afford to anymore. It helps that I have a bit of a cold at the moment, so not really enjoying it any more either.

Do you just go straight for it or slowly wean on to it? I am thinking just to go straight for it, I really want it to work this time though and not go back to smoking.

Bit scared of the e cig breaking or something and then being stuck without anything to help.

magimedi Mon 30-Sep-13 13:41:45

I weaned myself for a few days by smoking both my ecig & rollies. Then one morning I just stopped the fags - October 19th 2012 to be precise. Not that I am counting grin

And in case anyone is worrying about losing the 'clearing' effects of early morning tea/coffe + fag, I can assure them that an ecig works just fine!

ginmakesitallok Mon 30-Sep-13 13:46:37

I just went straight to an ecig. Was in a shopping centre one day and walked past one of those stalls selling ecigs, decided that today was the day to stop. Bought an ecig, smoked my last fag.

That was over 3 months ago, I had a drag on a real cig last weekend, it was horrible!!!

meddie Mon 30-Sep-13 14:41:59

To clean i remove the coil head. Swill it in warm water then pat dry. Then i attach it back onto the battery and leaving the top cap off i do short bursts. You will see little puffs of smoke then gradually you will see the coils glow red. Thats the dry burn. It may be different for your model, thats why you should google or you tube for your model.

onlysettleforbutterflies Mon 30-Sep-13 14:53:30

Ok will have my last fag at bedtime and start with my morning coffee tomorrow.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 15:18:52

There are Youtube videos on how to clean and dry burn coils.

thanks for this thread Katy!

I've had a couple of false starts with ecigs - once with a fagalike from the newsagent and more recently with a fairly standard pv bought by a friend which wasn't really hitting the spot so got shoved to the back of a drawer.

Having read this thread, I took it out again and noticed that the liquid is only 6mg, so ... I am about to order the 5 bottle pick and mix from Vaping Vision. I don't have a sweet tooth and the fruity flavours don't appeal at all, so I've chosen RY4, Vanilla, Mocha, Rum and Desert Ship - all at 18mg. I'm also getting 3 more clearomisers which should keep me going for a while and one of those cheapo starter kits from Paradise Vape so I've got a spare.

Wish me luck, I can't wait!

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 15:19:37

meddie, how long would you say a coil lasts if cleaned in this manner?

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 15:20:48

Good Luck, PlentyofPubegardens!

The Paradise Vape kits seem to have disappeared before I could put my order in. They must have sold out. Probably all the new customers from this thread grin Oh well, I'll check back in a few days. I've ordered everything I need to get started with the pv I have.

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 15:42:16

I bought one this morning as a backup! grin

KatyTheCleaningLady Mon 30-Sep-13 15:52:41

But, if someone wants a good starter kit, I actually bought this one(because, as I said the other day, I initially thought that site looked sort of dodgy):

www.vapeescape.co.uk/Basic-Vaping-Kits/Intro-Vision-Kit/Intro-Vision-Kit.html

The vendor has a very good reputation and their prices are fair. Also, the web site makes it very clear what everything is, what to buy with stuff, etc.

It's possible to hunt around and find something maybe cheaper, but I don't regret my purchase at all.

meddie Mon 30-Sep-13 17:41:34

Katy cleaning just helps improve the flavour if your coils are gunked up. I have had coils last few weeks to a few months. but if you notice it doesnt seem to vape as well or isnt working. Its worth trying a clean and burn before you replace it

waikikamookau Mon 30-Sep-13 18:00:36

www.vapingvision.co.uk/products/5-bottle-pick-and-mix.html
is good, free postage and arrives in double quick time

Melbourme Tue 01-Oct-13 13:25:33

I want to buy one of these for my mum, she had a go with a cigarette lookalike one she bought in a newsagent but didn't really get on with it.

Would you recommend waiting til the Paradise kits are back in or buying the Intro-Vision kit? I'm a bit confused by all the different bits and pieces. It looks like ego C5 clearomizers are highly recommended but will they fit onto different kits? The Intro-Vision kit has Vision clearmomizers that go with it for example?

I'd really like to get this right as she's tried, and failed, to quit so many times over the years and it would be amazing if this could help her do it finally. She also only smokes around 8 a day so would an 11mg nicotine liquid be the best for her?

Thanks so much anyone who can answer my questions, I'm really excited by the possibilities of this!

CatelynStark Tue 01-Oct-13 14:25:48

Well, my Ego CE4 starter kit arrived this morning so I charged it up and watched a YouTube tutorial on how to fill it (very easy - unscrew the mouthpiece bit and drip juice slowly down the side, so it doesn't get into the little center air hole).

I'm currently vaping vanilla cupcake - 50/50 36 (which is more vanilla-y than cake-y) and it's producing lots of lovely vapour! You have to remember to click the little button when you want to inhale. It doesn't give a huge throaty hit but it's ok.

Happy with it so far - and I got a free sample of rhubarb (which I'm hoping doesn't taste like rhubarb grin)

I'm excited to learn more about it now - I want a big feck off pink sparkly one and do my own juices (that just sounds wrong)

I am now 28.5 hours (not that I'm counting) into vaping. Last night was a little tough, I was craving rolling a cigarette, I didn't I resisted, I knew if I rolled I would smoke it.

This morning has been a lot easier, I didn't instantly want to smoke or roll. This afternoon has been great, as long as I don't go near my 'rolling' place I have no desire to do anything smoking related.

I have also noticed that in just this short pace of time that my DD, a smoker, stinks of fags and its horrible. She has mentioned though that she is going to give giving up a try now.

onlysettleforbutterflies Tue 01-Oct-13 14:35:30

I had my last cigarette at 10pm last night, vaped on the way to work this morning and not really thought about it since. My difficult time is going to be my drive home, I didn't use to smoke during the day anyway, but would really enjoy a couple on my commute home.

SpookyRestingFace Tue 01-Oct-13 14:42:53

Handy list of vendors HERE, some have discount codes.

Katy I felt the same about Paradise Vape initially, I thought it looked dodgy grin - but pleased to say I've ordered from James several times now and had no problems at all.

The £7 kits are a huge bargain, I've had a few of them. If out of stock, you can buy the batteries HERE, they are cheap and cheerful and work well IME - all you need to go with them is a clearo and a USB charger.

MistressDeeCee Tue 01-Oct-13 15:18:19

My £7 Paradise Vape kit has just arrived. Im currently charging the battery but now looking at the liquid & cartomiser (if thats what its called)..this is so naff, but...I cant work out where/how to put the liquid in blush can anyone advise? oh, the shame...

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 15:25:10

There are videos on YouTube.

Unscrew the mouthpiece . Tip and squeeze fluid down the side of the tank, being careful not to get any in that little centre air tube or overflow into it. Screw top back in, snug but not over tight.

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 15:31:51

Melbourne, don't wait for restock but check out a couple of other links for the same thing that some of us have posted. There's no guarantee that paradise vape will get them again or soon.

The ego style battery will take the vast majority of clearomizers and cartridges. I am currently experimenting with a couple of brands and styles. If it looks like the Vision ones, it will fit (as do many that look very different).

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 15:34:31

And, yes, I think
11mg should be fine.

Melbourme Tue 01-Oct-13 15:38:23

Thanks Katy, really helpful!

weirdbird Tue 01-Oct-13 15:43:34

So I bought one after reading this thread, I want to quit, have tried umpteen times before, have quit for 3 yrs before and started again.
I am using a tobacco liquid gold and silver. It still tastes incredibly sweet and not at all like I thought it would but have not smoked since it all arrived this morning. But would like something a bit more well tobacco tasting.
I smoked silk cut before

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 15:45:26

I hope she likes it! Good idea not to spend too much if it's not her idea to try it.

I think most people who take to it upgrade to fancier models, particularly ones where you can vary the voltage, but the basic one is good enough to start.

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 15:48:13

Weirdbird, finding the exact match to tobacco flavours can be very hard. However, there are juices designed to taste like particular brands. Google "vaping liquid tastes like silk cut" and you will probably find some hints.

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 15:49:57

Also, everyone, remember:the more gently you suck, the better it is. wink

It takes some getting used to if you're used to puffing hard and fast.

MistressDeeCee Tue 01-Oct-13 16:03:34

KatyTheCleaningLady thanks for advice much appreciated

waterlego Tue 01-Oct-13 16:05:56

Love @ the innuendos Katy and Catelyn smile

My ego arrived this afternoon from ParadiseVape. Have given it a little charge and just had a wee toke on some applegranite juice- very nice smile Very big throat hit that made me cough so maybe I'm sucking too hard Katy ;)

I also got a free sample of rhubarb. I love rhubarb so quite excited about that. smile

FunnysInLaJardin Tue 01-Oct-13 16:09:38

inspired by this thread I bought a vapourlite at the chemist yesterday. I smoke about 4 a day and so far it has replaced 2 out of my last 3 fags. Fantastic as I have tried every single sort of NRT and am still on a quarter of a ml of Champix which I seem to have become dependant on!

I can see myself graduating on to the flavoured stuff and proper kit once I've got to grips with it

I couldn't be bothered to wait for the cheap kits to be in stock so last night I had a good trawl and ended up buying this beastie for quite a bit more. grin

It has an option for a 1200mah battery so a charge will last ages, it's variable voltage and it has a passthrough cable so you can vape while it's plugged in charging.

I also found this site that does some amazing sounding flavours. A lot of them are flavour concentrates for mixing your own but they do a personalised mixing service for £6/bottle. A little pricey for everyday vaping but it's nearly christmas wink

My stuff hasn't even arrived yet and I'm already so excited grin

stillenacht Tue 01-Oct-13 16:55:41

Argh they have been delivered but I was at work!!!shock Will have to go and get them from sorting office argh!!!

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 16:56:33

That looks good! Did you also get clearomizers?

magimedi Tue 01-Oct-13 17:01:17

waterlego ecigs made me cough at first - soon got used to it though.

insomniarules Tue 01-Oct-13 17:05:26

Sorry to ask a silly question here but is it worth me trying? I'm on 1-4 cigarettes most days. Would using an e cigarette when I get a bit tetchy or Stressy help? Or are they meant for heAvier smokers??

goodasitgets Tue 01-Oct-13 17:05:39

I've got a tornado tank but I think 18mg isn't strong enough for me and I'm worried about using it
One of the woman at work (loads of people vape) was admitted to ICU with problems breathing so a lot of people here have stopped using them

magimedi Tue 01-Oct-13 17:08:03

insomnia - if it's the nicotine that de-stresses you then it would certainly work.

good - was it the ecig that caused the problems or did she have previous issues??

KatyTheCleaningLady Tue 01-Oct-13 17:08:21

insomniarules, I would recommend that you try to stop smoking entirely,first. If you truly can't do that, then I guess I'd say why not vape?

goodasitgets: that's scary! do you know more about why she had difficulties?

goodasitgets Tue 01-Oct-13 17:13:36

No previous problems, the hospital advised her not to use it again. It sounds daft as I know cigarettes are bad but...

I love it so much! Save me and my family money- and so, so much more, as my mum and also my grandfather died of smoking related illnesses. Been on one for six months, have three flavours and two cigarettes- one charging, one with me. Have used it as a stepping stone to cut down on this, as it's still an addiction- I don't want it controlling me. But I'm not strong enough to go cold turkey and it's meant that as well as being healthier, I've also managed to gradually cut my time spent smoking as I didn't feels judged or put myself under as much pressure, so am easing myself off it altogether- now have it only for stressful times, so a few times a week max. Am so much happier and feel so much healthier.

samu2 Tue 01-Oct-13 17:16:25

Vapeescape are amazing.

Jason is awesome if you ever want to ask him questions too.