to wish dd's nursery didn't have to assess her and give her targets?(40 Posts)
I know it's part of the eyfs and they have to, but ffs, she's 2!
I want to tell them to back the fuck off and let her play. I send her to nursery so she can play whilst I study for my degree, not to be given targets to meet. As long as they cuddle her when she needs it and give her fun things to do we're both happy.
They gave me a sheet when I picked her up the other day and told me to write down the things she can do at home. But, I can't see the point. Is there a point? Can we opt out?
I don't know if there's any point in opting out....they need to know where she's at developmentally in order to tailor her day...and to see if she's developing "correctly".
At 2 there are certain milstones which should be met...and sometimes it's hard to tell when children may not display ALL skills in nursery which they do at home.
if you opt out you will attract attention and questions I should think. Are you worried that she can't do some of the things they've listed?
Plus...nursery is mainly about playing but there are other things which come into it...social skills, listening skills and receptive language....toileting and feeding...they're all things which the staff need to deal with and your input helps them. Not filling it in is obstructive because she's not simply "playing" for the whole time is she?
Yes, it seems rather silly.
If there are delays, nursery should of course be able to spot them. But professionalising most children's development is overdoing it. She can meet her targets when she's 30 and pushing for higher sales figures. Not aged two when she can sing x amount of nursery rhymes off by heart.
Hmm I can see that they need to keep track of where they are, she's meeting all her milestones just fine. She's only there for 11 hours a week, things like social skills, toileting, feeding, speaking and listening skills are down to me to sort really. Maybe I'm just being a control freak.
I dont see that they are pushing her to do more.....they just want to.know what she can do.
I can understand your frustration, but considering that most parents make some effort to keep track of whether their children are developing in line with expectation or around the same rate as their peers, so nursery are just doing the same. Unfortunately they can't just tell you they are doing it, they are obliged to prove it as well.
Just write something on the sheet to keep them happy because they are only doing it because ofsted requires it. Then forget about it if you have no worries about her development.
Yes what useless said
Its bloody ofsted needing evi of partnership and engaging with parents. Fill in form and send back, staff will be eternally grateful
Is there a specific list, or can you put the items you like?
The skills you mention aren't down to you alone though OP...not once you send them into the care of other people.
Thanks everyone, it's a blank table to fill in. Not really sure what to write, she does lots of things at home. I don't know what sort of things they want to know.
She's still with me 94ish% of the time. It's mostly down to me.
How about she loves being outside
Or she turns pages of books carefully
Or she can put wellies on with no assistance
Or she has a circle of trusted adults in addition to her parents, she points with her eyes as each is named/refers to grandad as bampot, her special name for him
She can recite twinkle twinkle with Star Fingers
She can use counting words eg pointing at peas on a plate
It is mostly down to you yes....but those 11 hours equate to almost two full days in a school setting...and so they do jave a responsibility to cate for your dd in all ways.
She identifies the colours red blue and green
Knows a variation of animal noises
Says please and thank you in thr right context
This is what they will want, generic stuff.
Is it for her two year old check? If so it's to replace what the health visitors used to do, Nurserys now have to do them - as well as all other developmental folders too...
Things like can she play co-operatic with a group of children, express how she's feeling, if she's sad can she tell you that, form simple/complex sentences, able to hold a conversation, run, catch a ball, is she toilet trained - those kind of things.
If your unsure ask the nursery for a set of the EYFS standards for some pointers for what 22-36month olds should be doing! - you can just copy them over then. It's a pain but it's got to have parent input on it as well as nursery staff! Hope that helps
If you aren't worried, make something up/ copy something and leave it at that.
My DD didn't do what she was supposed to when she was little because we are in France and, funnily enough, so called " development" is nothing of the sort - most of it is purely cultural stuff. My DD didn't go through esoteric French stages of development but I can assure you that at 9 she is more than fine.
Just write what you actually do with her at home. We've always just laughed at the 'school reports'. They start earlier than 2 dd2 has one for 10 months with 'mathematics' listed
I don't know what sort of things they want to know.
Things like completing jigsaw puzzles, whilst clearly playing, also help with fine motor skills and problem solving. She will be getting "fun things to do" but children learn from these without actually realising they are learning stuff. She's not being sat down with a maths worksheet or pages of latin verbs
I tihnk it's a good thing.
Just write down things she can do, anything from drinking from a cup, choosing what to play with, sustaining concentration, what toys she likes the most, how she interacts with others, what sheo does at the park etc etc.
I'm a childminder, and I follow the EYFS. Every child should be monitored in case there's a problem, even when the parents are involved with their child's learning as you are, trained nursery staff can pick up potential problems that you might not have done - I picked up that a child in my care could possibly need glasses; because the child had always acted the way that they had, mum didn't think there was a problem. The child now wears glasses. Some parents do plonk their children down in front of the tv, and never interact with them, and it's these children that will need more help. The gap in some children's learning at age two will become so wide at age 5 they may never catch up. I'm sure that you've heard of children starting school that can't use a knife and fork, or can't speak clearly, yet there's nothing medically wrong. On my last training course I was told 'see the gap, mind the gap, close the gap', and that is what the monitoring is trying to do. The child is still learning through play, but in monitoring, I know i can get out different toys to help child A with fine motor skills, or go to a toddler group to help child B with socialisation, or with a different child something else, but without the observation, assessment, planning cycle, I wouldn't know what activities to do to help the individual children. And yes we do lots of free play! Cricky, that was an essay!
And evewrything they do at nursery is playing. They just make sure they have a huge variety of playing opportunities to help children develop in all areas of the EYFS curriculum (which is a very good curriculum imo)
It's not just incase there is a problem though, it is to make sure every child is reaching their full potential and has enough opportunities to grow and develop further.
Deadbody no it's not. As I said, they eat and toilet too. Both huge parts of a child's development.
They're not setting targets though, they're monitoring her development.
She is playing at nursery , they're not sitting her down and teaching her long division! But children learn all sorts of things through play. The nursery will have to ensure a variety of activities to teach different things, even though to the child and probably the parents, it's "just" play. Knowing what your child is capable of and if there are any issues means they can help her. Why wouldn't you want this?
Bonsoir that's really interesting about development being cultural, I've never thought of that. Can you give examples (general not personal!) what do French children do that British children don't (or vice versa)?
Targets at that age are fine as long as it's along the lines of "this is the next stage of development we're looking for".
After all we do that with our own dc, don't we? "They counted to 2 this morning for the first time, isn't that exciting!"
It's not okay if they're telling the child "we want you to do this next..."
This is the reason why I am leaving childminding after 11 years
her nursery has to do it for all their children for their nursery to get their funding etc and tbh I would want my child to be meeting her milestones nursery is all about developing through play and not just for messing about , send your dd to a childminder if you need her looked after but tbh childminders need to do the same as the nursery they need to set plans do reports on their charges
They're not setting targets though, they're monitoring her development.
^ ^ that
French babies sleep through by 12 weeks, eat four meals a day by six months, at 8, 12, 4 and 8, are out of nappies by 24 months, attend birthday parties at unknown homes on their own at 3...
In answer to one of your questions, yes you CAN opt out of the eyfs. It is not encouraged as sooner or later if you choose to opt into the school system your child will be assessed anyway. I'm led to believe its a hard process, But you can do it. Maybe try phoning the department of education people to find out how you go about it. (I asked my childminding quality assurance person how to do it once, on request of parents, and she wouldn't tell me how to do it, but I found out of someone else it could be done through the education people).
I agree that your child needs assessing so the correct level of activities can be provided though. I think sometimes it's just the way it is worded to parents is the issue and the amount of paperwork that is expected to show it is being carried out is part of the problem with the eyfs.
Personally I think it's got bloody ridiculous and now any organisation or individual involved in early years childcare/education is now in distinct danger of dealing in piles of post-it notes and not children. Understand the principles and reasoning behind it (I was in foundation stage when it came in and they were inflicting the tiara DVD on all and sundry) - but it's administrative tick boxing collecting evidence to keep ofsted off our arses bollocks and it's the primary reason I'm keeping mine at home until "nursery" age (and still in two minds about what to do then) as it's gone too far and I'd quite like my kids to be able to take a shit in a nappy without it being analysed and next steps allocated accordingly.
And I'm buggered if I'm sitting at home filling in assessment records when I'd rather be enjoying my kids! (Perfectly capable of monitoring their development myself - I know where they're at and where it relates relative to the average)
Developmental concerns used to be picked up with less paperwork in the past- it's not like people didn't think about them til a mountain of paperwork descended on them, and even when it has, it doesn't always answer the question as these things are fluid at this age.
I think this constant monitoring and having to demonstrate examples for every single child of very basic things interferes with the nursery workers ability to interact genuinely with the children= as it forces them to be constantly evaluating the child instead of really getting down and playing with them/encouraging play. It's just a weird way to view children.
YY far too much time spent on paperwork for Ofsted these days. It was a very bad idea to extend their empire into pre-school. Entirely wrong approach to infants and toddlers.
Sad thing I saw were some school-nursery girls deciding to play "schools". Normally this would be grabbing the teacher's chair and the whiteboard and the story books with their friends sat on the carpet. These days it's gone to - one gets the clipboard out of the writing corner and follows the other kid around "writing" notes.
Any good person working with kids and knowing them has a very good mental picture of where they are, where they should be getting to, and how to get them there - and they've managed that since the dawn of time without chasing 2, 3, 4 year olds around with a pile of post it notes and sticky labels - yeah you've always had the scrawled comments on planning about what's gone on to revisit and develop (or what's worked well/never ever doing that again!) - but it's bonkersland now.
Can't even go to baby group without the digital camera coming out to record what they've done in that session!
And do NOT get me started on the totally ridiculous waste of paper and printer ink from the endless photographs that get filed and ignored in various settings...
Mumsy some did...more slipped through the net.
I totally agree. Would much rather the staff interacted with the children than making copious notes. Or spent time planning fun activities than highlighting boxes.
My daughter's record once said that she didn't recognise a triangle. When I asked her she said " the one they showed me had curved corners". It's just ticking boxes in a rather inaccurate way.
I think it has got too much.
There is too much paperwork and too much monitoring.
I think its hard on the staff and I find it all a bit bemusing.
I work in child development so I know how important it all is.
I just don't think the amount of monitoring is necessary.
Its important to be able to identify issues but IME we get a fair few referrals that are triggered by someone jumping the gun instead of waiting for a child to meet milestones at their own pace.
That can cause huge issues for the family.
I think there should be more focus on good quality training and recruitment of staff. Staff should have the ability and confidence to be able to flag up issues if they arise.
Tick boxes are never a good idea.
They lead to a false sense of security and children fall through the net.
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