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to be really cross with my eldest daughter's school?

(113 Posts)
freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 10:19:26

and to have expected them to call me if they were sending her home?

Came home from dropping DD2 at school to find DD1 (who is 11 and started secondary school, 2 and a half weeks ago) sitting on the doorstep as she'd been sent home from school for not wearing correct uniform

DD1 stayed over at a friend's house on Friday night - friend's birthday and they were going out for a pizza and a sleepover. She went straight there from school on Friday and friend's dad dropped her home Saturday afternoon. When she got home she realised that she'd left her school shoes behind. We tried several times over the weekend to contact friend to get the shoes back, but we didn't manage to get hold of her until quite late last night so it was arranged that DD would meet her friend in the school reception area this morning and get her shoes.

DD went off to school this morning in a pair of plain black, lace up plimsoll type shoes with a note from me explaining what had happened. They're not uniform regulation shoes, however, she was only ever going to wear them to school and change into her proper shoes as soon as she got there so I thought it would be fine

She got as far as the gate when a teacher picked up on her shoes and wouldn't let her enter the school grounds and sent her home. DD says she tried to explain to the teacher that her friend was waiting for her in reception with her proper shoes, but he wouldn't listen to a word she said and refused to read the note I'd written.

What if I'd gone off to work or out for the day assuming my DD was safely in school? No one called me, they're not allowed mobile phones in school (they're confiscated every morning and returned every evening) so she doesn't take hers in with her so had no way of contacting me herself

I've taken her back and she's now in school, in the correct shoes, and I've asked for someone to call me as I'm really cross about it.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Mon 23-Sep-13 10:21:22

I would be furious too, and yes, I'd say something. Put it in writing, rather than just ringing though.

quoteunquote Mon 23-Sep-13 10:23:16

Completely ridiculous way to treat one of the youngest new member of the school,

At least you know it's a shit school now, find a better one where they care about the child.

absentmindeddooooodles Mon 23-Sep-13 10:23:55

Definatley complain. Thays bloody rubbish behaviour. Your poor dd has only just started school! I remember at my school even up until 16 they had to contact parents before we could be sent home at all.

Ireallymustbemad Mon 23-Sep-13 10:24:28

YANBU at all. They should have read the note firstly and even if they didn't do that they should have phoned you to explain they'd sent her home.

Andro Mon 23-Sep-13 10:24:36

Refusing to read a parental note is bad, not calling/texting you is worse...but why doesn't your DD have her own key? At secondary school, even if the school is on the ball about contacting parents about sending children home, they don't wait for parental acknowledgement - what would happen if their was a sudden and unforeseen need to close the school?

YANBU to be cross, but I do think she needs her own key in case of emergencies

Ireallymustbemad Mon 23-Sep-13 10:25:02

I should add that they should be more lenient with new yr7s too.

Bluebell99 Mon 23-Sep-13 10:28:50

That is really bad, I would be furious.

Hopasholic Mon 23-Sep-13 10:29:56

I'd be livid! Too right, what if you'd been at work all day? The teacher should have given your DD chance to explain,he didn't therefore I would want an apology directly from the teacher.

She's only 11 FFs! What would sending her home achieve exactly when her shoes were at school?

PuppyMonkey Mon 23-Sep-13 10:33:05

Yanbu what a twatty teacher and what a stupid waste of everyone's time and energy.

3littlefrogs Mon 23-Sep-13 10:34:46

That is shocking. What if something had happened to her? You would have had no idea.

ZenGardener Mon 23-Sep-13 10:37:42

I just cannot understand in whose interest it is to send children home for uniform offenses.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 10:38:26

Unfortunately, we didn't get DD into the school we wanted and this one is the best of a bad bunch so nowhere better to move her to.

She doesn't have a key as she's never needed one, there's usually someone around (DH and I work from home so 99% of the time one of us is in, except this morning, typically) so it's never come up before. She was only actually out there 5 minutes, but school couldn't have known that.

I'm really cross with the teacher as well. They are strict about uniform, but the rest of her uniform was present and correct and DD was going to change into her proper shoes straight away, I don't think she should have been sent home in the first place.

I'm going to email them now.

Thanks

Yeah, that's ridiculous. The note should have cleared up all confusion and if he really thought she was a lying little toerag who'd forged her mother's handwriting he should have sent her to the Head of Year when she got in. Is the teacher a senior member of staff? Because most teachers don't have the authority to send kids home. If he is, then you know what kind of school it is.

Tailtwister Mon 23-Sep-13 10:51:01

Absolutely complain. If the teacher had bothered to listen to her and read her not, he would have realised the situation. He was just being bloody minded.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 10:53:45

She doesn't know who the teacher is, she doesn't have him for any of her lessons so doesn't really know who he is. She said he's always at the gate checking uniform in the mornings so I assume he must be quite senior.

Even if he didn't believe her and has heard the same excuses before, he should have at least heard her out and read my note, he could have made her check in with her correct shoes at registration.

I've dug out the head's email address and emailed her direct.

MrsOakenshield Mon 23-Sep-13 10:54:46

I wonder what the school's policy is in bad weather, presumably a lot of children will turn up in boots if it's very cold, raining or snowing, and change into their shoes once inside - would that not be allowed?

I used to be very pro-uniform but the more I read about nonsense like this the less convinced I am!

Hullygully Mon 23-Sep-13 10:55:15

They are WANKERS

This sort of thing drives me insane.

Sposed to be a place of happiness and learning, not a sodding Gulag.

superlambanana Mon 23-Sep-13 10:56:42

That's ridiculous. And I used to be a secondary teacher. I was extremely picky about uniform but there's no way I would have not let your daughter in in that situation!

NatashaBee Mon 23-Sep-13 11:08:07

I'd be furious. How will her absence be reflected on their official register - will it show as a suspension?

Fuzzysnout Mon 23-Sep-13 11:08:20

Yes, I'm all in favour of strict uniform rules being upheld but they treated her very badly. I would be pointing out that they have failed in their duty of care towards her. Anything could have happened whilst she was alone without your knowledge. I don't see how you could have handled the situation any better with your efforts to get the shoes and write the note. I would except to meet them and recieve an apology. Saying that as an education professional.

treadheavily Mon 23-Sep-13 11:09:47

Wow how to make a mountain out of a molehill. The teacher, I mean, not your daughter. Was she upset?

Sukey99 Mon 23-Sep-13 11:17:13

No, you're not being unreasonable. The teacher concerned deserves to be read the riot act.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 11:23:04

I'm not sure what happens with boots actually.

I'll ask how her absence is recorded, not sure. Unauthorised I'd guess

My friend has a daughter there a couple of years above DD and last year she was telling me that school sent out texts informing parents when their children could wear coats to school so I assume they expect you to wait for their authorisation

I hate the school to be honest, I really didn't want her to go there but she likes it and all her friends are there (her whole primary school class go there) so I'm trying really hard to be supportive and keep my negativity at bay, but then they go and pull shit like this.

Merrylegs Mon 23-Sep-13 11:31:39

Oh, I usually roll my eyes at fumming parents threads but this is very shortsighted and unimaginative behaviour by the teacher. I actually think the teacher is not very senior - usually the higher up you are the more authority you have to find creative solutions. He obviously cannot deviate from beng a jobsworth.

soverylucky Mon 23-Sep-13 11:32:06

Given the circumstances the school have been very unreasonable. She should have been allowed to meet her friend with the shoes. I am a big supporter of school uniform and it being enforced but this school have been very silly.

DuckToWater Mon 23-Sep-13 11:32:14

Hully - my thoughts precisely. My daughter will be 11 and 2 months when she starts secondary school. I'd be absolutely livid at this sort of thing, particularly as we'd most likely be both out at work.

Even 20 years ago when I was at school, at middling local comp, the school would never have done this. Flouting uniform rules would get you a warning first, then if not corrected parents may be phoned or brought in for a meeting in case there was financial hardship involved. And no-one was ever sent home before speaking to parents first (I hardly remember anyone being sent home full stop). Detention could only be given with 24 hours notice.

It's mind-boggling that this should happen today.

DuckToWater Mon 23-Sep-13 11:34:38

Also it wouldn't have even have been an issue in any event as teachers would have had better things to do than stand at the gate checking uniform! Way to create an atmosphere of mutual mistrust.

Misspixietrix Mon 23-Sep-13 11:36:35

YNBU! This happened to my Best Friends Sister (shes the legal Guardian for her). She got sent home and Best Friend was unaware as she was at work all day! She was furious with the School and rightly so!

Cerisier Mon 23-Sep-13 11:45:02

He refused to read the note? I hope the head wipes the floor with him. Totally unacceptable. I have NEVER heard of a teacher refusing to read a note before. This teacher was not doing his job properly, he was acting like a prison warder. I hope you get a full apology from the head.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 11:52:20

Sorry, missed a couple of posts.

She wasn't upset that I wasn't here when she got back, she knew where I was and that I wouldn't be long, and if the worst came to the worst, my friend lives a couple of doors up so she could have got hold of me.

She was upset that she'd been told off and that the teacher wouldn't listen to her. She's a bit of a stickler for rules and hates getting into trouble so was worried about it and embarrassed that it happened in front of all her friends.

It just seemed so silly. Maybe the teacher has heard every excuse under the sun before when it comes to not being in correct uniform, but it was so easy to check whether or not she was pulling a fast one. Her friend was in reception waiting for her with her shoes.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 11:54:45

sorry, x-posted. Yes, DD said she tried to explain what had happened but he just kept speaking over her and cutting her off. When she tried to give him the note he wouldn't take it from her.

Remotecontrolduck Mon 23-Sep-13 12:11:15

I have huge issues with schools being like this. DD's school was the same. It's outrageous he refused to let her in to get her shoes. What an awful way to gain respect from students.

He needs an absolute bollocking.

I can't stand the UKs Nazi-esque obsession with uniform. If I was having more kids, I'd move to mainland Europe where they seem to have a bit more of a grip.

steppemum Mon 23-Sep-13 12:20:51

this is horrendous
There are so many what ifs
She could have been sitting on a doorstep in the rain all day if parents out
she is 11 and anything could happen! (and I am normally a laid back, give them independence type)

there are so many reasons for incorrect shoes
My ds had tendon problems last year and had to go to school in unauthorised shoes as he couldn't walk - would teacher have ignored that too?
or wellies/snow boots
or child walks a long way and changes trainers to school shoes
or school shoes strap broke as she put them on and mum has taken it to be repaired.

I think it is the unreasonableness of the teacher which is so irritating, and his refusal to consider the note, sent by parent for exactly this reason.

Nanny0gg Mon 23-Sep-13 12:22:04

I can't quite decide whether or not this is a safeguarding issue too (I don't know the rules with secondary pupils).

They had no idea of your home situation, so to just send her off when they had no idea where she might go or who may be there is nuts.

Copy your e-mail to the CoG.

boschy Mon 23-Sep-13 12:22:32

stupid teacher, what a tosser. I hope the head puts a bomb up his arse! do you have any idea what the head is like? ours does a weekly 'surgery' where you can just go in with any general issues, obviously for something more urgent then you can go direct anyway as you are doing.

I get what you are saying about not wanting to display negativity about the school, that's important. How does DD feel about the place now?

Wibblypiglikesbananas Mon 23-Sep-13 12:28:15

Ok, so play them at their own game. If they're sticklers for rules, find every rule in the book they've failed to stick to today:

1) Safeguarding - hmm, sending your daughter home to a potentially empty house for the day, check.

2) Failure to provide your daughter with education this morning - doesn't sound too good for a SCHOOL.

3) Basic failures of common sense and decency - the guy wouldn't even read your note! Imagine if someone had left an item of uniform after PE. They'd forever be stuck in a Catch 22 kind of situation, not allowed into the changing rooms to retrieve it but instead sent home. Absolutely ridiculous.

I know you've emailed the head, but I'd be emailing again, cc-ing the LA and requesting an appropriate response by X time. Failure to respond will result in you taking this further, including to the press. (The one time I used this line, though in another context, I got a call back within minutes and a profuse apology.) I'd also be asking for written confirmation that this wouldn't happen again, to my child or anyone else, for extra tuition to be provided as DD had missed education this morning and for compensation for time you've spent resolving this rather than working.

NB - 8 months PG, and this thread his irritated me beyond measure!

I would be furious too. Apart from the safety issue, where is the respect?!

How this teacher can expect to be treated respectfully in future after behaving so appalling to your dd is beyond me.

NonnoMum Mon 23-Sep-13 12:30:09

Def write to the Head and the Chair of Governors describing the incident.

I suggest

- the school failed in its duty of care towards your daughter
- the member of staff did not have the authority to send your daughter home
- the member of staff failed to read a note written by you explaining the situation
- the member of staff failed to listen to your daughter.
- the member of staff prevented your daughter for achieving a possible 100% attendance this term (???)

ivykaty44 Mon 23-Sep-13 12:32:57

so sending a child home from the school gate due to them not having the correct shoes on their feet - this makes standards so much better is the cry from the uniform police.

It comes across as dictatorial and unreasonable and therefore breaks down bonds between parents who support school rules. Schools are better where parents give their support.

This needs to go to the CofG and the teacher needs to be named

MeteorShower Mon 23-Sep-13 12:34:30

I'd be with wibblypig on this.

How fucking DARE the teacher? They have failed in their duty as a school to educate and protect your child and need telling so in no uncertain terms.

And as for being told when children could wear coats to school - er... shock I decide when my child needs to wear a coat, not the school. My DD will be having to walk to secondary when she goes next year and if its raining or cold, she will need to wear a coat. End of. I'm not having any jumped up power crazy twat telling her when she is and isn't allowed to wear the clothing we deem appropriate for the weather"

IceCreamForCrow Mon 23-Sep-13 12:34:40

Yanbu. They esp shouldn't be like this with a new yr7 still settling in.

My dd is also new in yr 7. Her hand was accidentally slammed in the PE changing room door (which apparantly self slams shuthmm) the other day and pe teacher told her to get on with it. Her fingers were rather bruised too and it must have hurt a lot.

Sorry different type of thing, but it's the dismissiveness towards them from some teachers that irks me. Most of the new ones are trying very hard to take on a lot during these first few weeks. Not even reading your note is very poor.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Mon 23-Sep-13 12:36:54

How did he know she lived in walking distance? She could have been driven in from miles away or caught a bus. What an arsehole he is. Fuming on your behalf. Ask to see the head and have him attend the meeting as well.

MeteorShower Mon 23-Sep-13 12:39:02

The more I see about secondary schools and their ridiculous uniform policies, the more I worry about sending DD tbh.

Having to wait for authorisation to wear coats? Not being allowed to wear boots even if that is the appropriate footwear for the weather? Refused entry to school for wearing flat black shoes but not the exact ones stipulated in the rules? What the hell is going on that it has been allowed to get to this stage? Do they REALLY think it makes a difference to educational standards? they don't even HAVE uniforms in many countries yet their kids seem to learn just fine hmm

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 12:41:18

Thanks!

Have heard back from head. Profuse apologies and wants me and DD to go and see her after school.

Have jotted down all the above to take in with me, the more I think about it, the crosser I am so will have forgotten it all by the time I go in there

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 12:46:38

They would have known she walks as she comes in through an entrance at the end of a footpath, the car and bus dropper-off-ers have to use a different entrance via the car park/bus stop

Dancergirl Mon 23-Sep-13 12:47:02

I am furious on your behalf, I would be livid.

Let us know what happens with the Head.

Mumsyblouse Mon 23-Sep-13 12:50:14

What is so frustrating here is that clearly you do respect the rules and make absolutely every effort to be on board with them- to the extent of arranging the shoe drop off in Reception.

Baby and the bathwater springs to mine with this obsession over uniform. I'm starting to think schools that enforce uniform to this degree ought to have uniforms for the teachers too (so they can lead by example).

madhairday Mon 23-Sep-13 12:54:33

I am livid on your behalf reading this.

She is only 11 ffs and new to y7. dd is y8 and would be really upset by this. (she got told off for wearing boots to school in the snow last year but that's another story) hmm

I hope the head gives this teacher a complete bollocking and your daughter and you get an apology.

this whole uniform drives me mad, as I have said before am so glad my DD is now at college and no uniform, really what does it matter what's on their feet, when my DD'S school shoes were stolen from school in P,E, I couldn't replace them for a week as no money so sent her in black trainers with a note they sent her home, so I just called and said fine ill keep her home for a week then until I can get new shoes.They did let her back after 3 days and me offering to show them my bank statement and asking where I was going to magic money up for new shoes and why they couldn't bloody provide lockers for p.e. They should have called youanything could have happened they have a duty of care ect.

justmyview Mon 23-Sep-13 12:56:31

I think it's fair enough to have a strict uniform code, but this time it does sound OTT

I don't agree with firing off angry letters to local authority / Governors etc.

ivykaty44 Mon 23-Sep-13 13:01:34

fred - don't be cross when you go in as if you are calm and can make your point you will do much better.

What point do you want to make to the head?

What do you want to result to be?

If it was me I would want the HT to understand that students do need to be listen to as if they are not listen to when something as important as being sent home is involved then there is a problem with the school ethos.

i would want the result to be that teachers listen to a student and contact the parent before sending home from school for the day.

you may have different issues

MrsHoratioNelson Mon 23-Sep-13 13:02:41

Generally speaking I am pro uniform, but seriously, having to wait for authorisation before wearing a coat to school? WTAF?!

YouTheCat Mon 23-Sep-13 13:03:41

The teacher on the gate was a total bellend.

But good that the head has got back to you quickly and is coming at this from an apologetic starting point.

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 23-Sep-13 13:04:22

Hope your dd isn't too upset,what a wanker teacher. I think dds secondary has a great idea of privilege books. Every student gets one and teachers put either blue for good and red for bad stamps in them. Three red and you are sent to your mentor (like a head of year),five blue and you get a privilege like school shop tokens or homework pass.

JenaiMorris Mon 23-Sep-13 13:08:09

It's shit like this that turned me into a school refuser. It's so destructive.

Good that the head is on the case, although the bellend uniform inspector will claim they knew nothing about a note.

friday16 Mon 23-Sep-13 13:09:42

OP, I presume this is an Ofsted outstanding school where 100% of the pupils get 5 A*-C including English and Maths, the added value is massively in excess of 1000 and its performance on key measures such as "FSM children going to higher education" is beyond reproach?

Because otherwise you might reasonably ask why teachers, and the head, are pissing about with this sort of nonsense rather than improving the quality of teaching and learning, mightn't you?

Insist that the teacher in question is in the meeting with the head. If that's not possible, make a formal complaint to the governors. The teacher's a fuckwit, but the head is presumably enabling and encouraging this sort of behaviour, when he should instead be worrying about learning outcomes.

mineofuselessinformation Mon 23-Sep-13 13:09:45

Even if he didn't believe her, he could have asked her to wait with him until he could go in and check....

BurberryQ Mon 23-Sep-13 13:11:24

that is bang out of order IME, not listening to her and refusing to read a note from a parent? these people are sick.

pooka Mon 23-Sep-13 13:12:57

Yes - you definitely need to have an idea of a reasonable/proportionate outcome that can be achieved.

So an agreement that staff will be advised of protocols i.e. read notes, don't just send child home from gates (incidentally I personally think that if they were doing this for a different uniform infringement i.e. no friend waiting with uniform inside, they should take the child in, make note of details in office, ring contact details and then send home) and so on.

An apology from Head. (I don't think you anyone else should grovel, but the head as representative of the school should be apologising for the incident).

Whatdoiknowanyway Mon 23-Sep-13 13:14:38

Just a thought. Years ago my daughter was very upset about 2 teachers checking people's travel passes at the station nearest the school.
Turns out it was sixth formers messing about but an eleven year old in her first weeks at high school will not always be able to tell the difference between a 6th former and a teacher.
Could this be similar?

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 13:19:57

ivykaty -

I want them to accept that this whole issue with uniform is ridiculous. That most of us just want the best for our kids and while on the whole we're supportive of the school rules and ensure our kids are in correct uniform, sometimes stuff just happens and we can't help that.

The teacher absolutely should have listened to my daughter this morning, it would have saved all this aggravation if he'd just said to her "ok, go find your friend then come back and show me your proper shoes".

I was talking to a friend about it earlier and she pointed me in the direction of a parents and guardians group on Facebook and it's full of parents complaining about stuff like this. Most of it, yes, just suck it up, rules are rules but some of the complaints are ridiculous
- a mum complaining that her DD had been taught in isolation for wearing a boys blazer (the buttons do up different ways), she'd bought it 2nd hand off the local selling pages as she couldn't afford a new one and hadn't realised a difference
- another mum complaining that her son had been refused permission to remove his blazer in class - he was hot and uncomfortable, hardly conducive to learning

I personally think there are far more serious issues within the school than an odd bit of creative uniform, that need to be addressed first

I'm going to jot down everything I want to say, as I'm annoyed and everything will go out of my head.

Tee2072 Mon 23-Sep-13 13:21:36

It sounds to me like they know they aren't all that academically and so are being draconian about uniform rather than pulling up their teaching.

I'd be furious.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 13:24:30

No, it's not an Ofsted outstanding school, with amazing results, it's not bad, but not amazingly wonderful with no other issues to address.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 13:29:13

And I'd also like to know what their policies on sending kids home are.

Looking on Facebook, DD isn't the 1st kid to be turned away at the gate and sent home for uniform infringement without a parent being informed.

Surely it can't be legal to send them home without making sure a parent is aware of it first.

WorrySighWorrySigh Mon 23-Sep-13 13:31:45

Dont be surprised if the school tries to find a way of denying the incident occurred or tries to turn it around to somehow make it your DD's fault.

A student should only be sent home for a uniform infraction if and only if the clothing the student is wearing is indecent or dangerous. Even then the school should keep the student safe until the student can be safely returned to an appropriate adult.

Anything else is an utter abdication of the school's responsibilities.

Good luck with the meeting this afternoon.

ivykaty44 Mon 23-Sep-13 13:32:22

sending a student to be taught in solution due to his mothers finances is down right cruel and there is not any excuse for the school to behave in this dickensean way.

Ask the head teacher is the ridiculous nature with the uniform a smoke screen to cover up other problems?

BurberryQ Mon 23-Sep-13 13:41:37

I can more or less guarantee that you will go to the school and as Worrysighworry said, they will
"find a way of denying the incident occurred or try to turn it around to somehow make it your DD's fault."

I would put money on this.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 13:47:25

Apparently, the best way to address problems is to start with the small things (uniform) and work up (according to the latest newsletter) hmm

My DD is just getting to grips with the place. There should be a clear uniform policy that all staff are aware of, she shouldn't have to worry if she's going to get pulled up on her uniform every 5 minutes because a teacher has interpreted the rules differently. It's like some of the teachers are looking for things to pick at

The shoes this morning weren't regulation I agree - they were black, lace up, canvas pumps. DD isn't a formal shoe wearer, other than a pair of black ankle boots (which aren't allowed either), she wears Vans/Converse. These were the black-est, plainest, least offensive shoes she owns, to wear temporarily until she got to school and she could change into her proper shoes. It just needs a bit of common sense

GoldenGytha Mon 23-Sep-13 13:48:31

I was always very pro-uniform, but reading these posts, it seems it has got totally out of hand,

In Scotland, so we don't have Governers and Ofsted here, and our schools seem to be much more relaxed about uniform, the only rule that was insisted on was that 5th and 6th years wear their school tie, as it was different to the rest of the school's.

But as long as they were wearing their ties, the kids could wear jeans and trainers to school! It never, to my knowledge had any detrimental effect on any of the kids.

Being a bit of a stickler, mine always wore the correct uniform of black skirt/trousers, white/black blouse, black jumper/cardigan/sweatshirt and tie.
There was never any rule about when the kids could wear coats, and living here in NE Scotland, a warm coat is often a necessity! And I don't remember any strict rules about what kind of shoes could be worn either (within reason)

In short, you had a school in a deprived area, but one where the teachers and pupils had a fantastic relationship, No uniform inspectors here!

Tee2072 Mon 23-Sep-13 13:52:38

I think I would mostly be angry that the teacher wouldn't listen.

What does that teach a child?

ivykaty44 Mon 23-Sep-13 13:55:54

well of course if you send all the student home wearing the wrong uniform there parents will get pissed off and send them else where to school and that will get rid of the problem - the students wink

the more i hear about schools and their uniforms, the more i realise that this country is going blooming barmey!

dont get me wrong, im all for uniforms, i absolutely agree with them, but when it comes to logos/names on anything and everything, being sent straight home for something a student cant help, punishing students because their parents cant afford new or all uniform is utterly rediculous!

and not being able to wear coats? ffs! im sorry but what right does the school have to tell students that they cant wear a coat? or take off their blazer when hot? how far is this going to go if its allowed to continue? next it will be the right colour underwear, the correct hairstyle, the correct hair colour...

actally now ive said that, its reminded me of that hair product advert! that is what schools are going to end up like...

PrimalLass Mon 23-Sep-13 14:09:01

I would try and make the point that if they think she is responsible enough to be sent home at 11, without them checking whether she has got there or not, then she should be responsible enough to be listened to and treated with respect.

irregularegular Mon 23-Sep-13 14:11:45

I hope you get an apology - that really, really isn't on

I also have an 11 yr old DD in yr 7. She would be distraught if that happened to her. Her journey to school takes nearly an hour, travelling by train and walking across the city centre - but with a group of girls.

My husband and I both work during the day.

She would be able to get into the house and has a phone, but I'd still expect to be informed by school if she was being sent home for the day. And turning up one day in the wrong shoes is NOT a good enough reason - even if she didn't have the right ones to change into.

whois Mon 23-Sep-13 14:21:41

That is absolutely shit OP.

I remember the massive sense of injustice when jumped up shit teachers (it's never the teachers who are actually good at their job) get off on a power trip like this and won't listen.

Can't believe they sent her home without telling you, and can't believe over something so little.

There is no way in hell my children will be attending a school with uniform attitudes like this because it winds me up so much! Far more important things in life.

geekgal Mon 23-Sep-13 14:32:58

There's talk of trying to get a campaign going about uniform problems in this country on MN, they may look into it in future:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/1845858-Mumsnet-School-Uniform-campaign

Tee2072 Mon 23-Sep-13 14:40:59

"I would try and make the point that if they think she is responsible enough to be sent home at 11, without them checking whether she has got there or not, then she should be responsible enough to be listened to and treated with respect."

Yes, exactly this. Talk about mixed messages.

soapboxqueen Mon 23-Sep-13 14:49:37

I think you are absolutely right to complain. As you said, the teacher could have asked her to come back out with her shoes on to prove what had happened. Not contacting a parent or carer is very wrong. Anything could have happened to her on her way home and you wouldn't have known there was a problem for 6-8 hours.

However, while the teacher in question might just be a jumped up nutter. It's more likely that the head teacher has created a blanket policy so that it is easier for the entire staff to follow. No uniform at the gate, no entry. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts.

However, depending on how convinced the head is on this policy, he may just pass the buck anyway.

Merrylegs Mon 23-Sep-13 14:59:04

Well. It sounds as though the Head agrees with you.

At your meeting you want to say something like 'how can I reassure Dd this won't happen again'. And 'how can we we make sure DD is listened to?' You want to be seen as a parent who is working with the school and then any future problems you might have will be taken seriously.

The Head has apologized so, you know, that's a positive and responsible move.

Cerisier Mon 23-Sep-13 15:15:37

I hope the Head listens to your concerns OP and acknowledges that they messed up big time.

My mantra as a teacher is to treat students how I would like to be treated and how I would want my own children to be treated.

This teacher has a lot to learn. One lesson would be not to blindly follow diktat but to use common sense and common decency.

WorrySighWorrySigh Mon 23-Sep-13 15:35:08

Apparently, the best way to address problems is to start with the small things (uniform) and work up (according to the latest newsletter)

Oh my!

I think you need to challenge the head's logic there. The head is going to swamp him/herself with the trivia of which there is normally much before tackling the big and important issues of which there are normally few.

This is a head who has made a wrong turn career wise and should probably be in charge of nothing more complicated than the stationery cupboard.

melliebobs Mon 23-Sep-13 15:57:16

This is bonkers n beggars belief. Marking my spot to see what the head had to say for themselves. The member of staff too

JenaiMorris Mon 23-Sep-13 16:08:44

The blazer story is shocking. What a dreadful thing to do angry

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 17:05:10

Meeting went ok with the head. She was actually really nice and agreed with me that this morning should never have happened.

Yes, I accept DD was wearing the incorrect shoes but she should have been allowed into collect the proper ones

She said she had hoped to speak to the teacher concerned before our meeting but didn't get a chance and would be addressing it with him later today.

I pointed out the uniform issues were causing a lot of upset with parents and told her about the facebook group, She is awarr of it and setting up a monthly parent forum and asking for parents to act as form reps specially for stuff like this

As for the sending home without contacting me, the teacher is supposed to take a list of Names so the office staff can contact parents and thinks I probably got home and called school myself before the office called. She did assure me that the school will contact me should it happen again

So meeting was ok!

Lancelottie Mon 23-Sep-13 17:14:36

Well, semi-OK.

What if your DD had not been able to get home? Would contacting you to let you know that she'd left school be OK then? Surely a slightly better practice would be to have the child wait inside the school while they contacted a parent?

DD has no way of getting home outside regular school times barring a five-mile walk through fields. If other children are in that situation, what would the school's policy be?

WorrySighWorrySigh Mon 23-Sep-13 17:17:58

As for the sending home without contacting me, the teacher is supposed to take a list of Names so the office staff can contact parents and thinks I probably got home and called school myself before the office called. She did assure me that the school will contact me should it happen again

Sorry but that is an utterly disgraceful response.

What were the school going to do if they hadnt managed to get hold of you? Was someone going to go back and get your DD?

Or more likely, there would have been a collective shrug from the school.

The school my DCs attend has an awful lot of looked after children, an awful lot of children with chaotic home lives. Sending a child home without thought is stupid beyond belief.

Get back to that head OP, her policy is potentially endangering children.

Ginnytonic82 Mon 23-Sep-13 17:21:43

The teacher refused to read your note and then sent home a year 7 without contacting you? That's terrible! If I, or any of my colleagues did that we'd be in serious trouble. The school has a legal duty if care for your daughter and should have made every effort to get in contact with you or her other nominated contact. As for refusing to read correspondence from a parent, that is ridiculous! What if your Dd had injured her foot over the weekend and needed to wear her plimsolls for medical reasons? You need to speak to the head, and ask your daughter for a description of the horrid teacher, if he's in playground uniform duty, it shouldn't be hard to identify him. Good luck!

I hope that she does take it up with the teacher in question and that your DD is ok over the incident.
Our local comp. is similar - in fact, if yours had had a male head teacher I might have thought you lived round here! Lots of children sent home for having the wrong uniform, down to having plain black "school shoes" which had a grey sole!!! My DD's friend had her coat confiscated for a week (not cold enough to wear coats yet!) - and got absolutely soaked on her way home! Children not allowed to remove school jumpers or even roll the sleeves up. I'm all for strict uniform rules but sometimes they can go to far.

GoldenGytha Mon 23-Sep-13 17:34:41

Your DD's friend had her coat confisticated for a week Justforlaughs!!

That is bloody shocking and disgraceful, how can a school have authority over who wears coats or not,

And as for kids not even being allowed to roll their sleeves up! Words fail me.

How can any of this be good for our kids education.

I'm so glad that my DC school had none of these crazy rules.

auntmargaret Mon 23-Sep-13 17:51:14

If a school confiscated my daughter's coat, I'd be reporting them to police for theft. What statutory right do these schools have to act this way? I'd be livid if my daughter got wet because the coat I sent her in was misappropriated. Thank Goodness I'm in Scotland, none of that stuff here.

sashh Mon 23-Sep-13 18:13:33

Check the rules policy.

I went to school riding a dinosaur and we had to wear correct uniform on the way to and from school, not just there.

JenaiMorris Mon 23-Sep-13 18:23:03

But sashh, often people don't have any choice about the school they send their children to. We were fortunate in that there was an alternative to schools obsessed with enforcing rules at all costs near us, others aren't so lucky.

GoldenGytha Mon 23-Sep-13 18:25:22

Glad I'm in Scotland too auntmargaret

My DC have all left school now, but we never had any of this kind of nonsense here (Aberdeen) either.

I'd be beyond furious if my DC got wet just because the school saw fit to confiscate their coats too. What bloody right have the school got to do that?!

BettyBotter Mon 23-Sep-13 18:26:39

Hi Freddie
So the head has mollified reassured you with a friendly chat.
So what will the outcome be? Will your or you dd get an apology from the teacher concerned? Will the policy on sending home be changed? How will you actually know that the teacher concerened has even been 'spoken to'? Will the teacher listen next time a year 7 needsa to tell them something?

I wouldn't let the head soft soap you with platitudes on this one. I'd want actual evidence of real action and some 'retraining' for this teacher regarding safeguarding and listening to children..

Don't let this lie without getting a real response for the sake of the next dc with the wrong buttons.

LynetteScavo Mon 23-Sep-13 18:28:38

Glad you got a meeting with the head, and it was sort of OK.

I would have been beyond fuming!

So angry for you...my DC at that age would have been home alone all day.

The fact that this happened has 1) turned my stomach and 2) glad that my DS goes to a reasonable high school, who while are strict on uniform, would never have had this happen.

Both Ds1 and Ds2 went to really academic, selective schools, with a really strict uniform policies, when we lived in England - and even they were sensible and realistic, and were prepared to be flexible where there were genuine reasons for not wearing all the correct uniform. Like when ds1 injured his foot, and couldn't get his school shoes on. Or if a child lost their tie - the ties were only available at the school uniform shop, or the office, both of which are on school grounds - otherwise a boy who'd lost their tie would have been in a catch22 situation.

Re. coats - I would not stand for the school telling me whether my child could wear a coat - and I would be kicking up merry hell if they confiscated their coat and the child was soaked by the rain on the way home.

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 18:34:25

Sorry, was posting from phone earlier as kids were on the computer so I was trying to make it brief fat fingers!

They know she's within walking distance due to the entrance she uses at school. Basically, the school is in the middle of a housing estate, the walkers have use an entrance at the end of the footpath, which is where she was stopped. Buses and those who drive enter via a bus/car rank at the rear of the school (the residents complained about the traffic congestion so they created a separate drive way iyswim)

But yes, I agree that they should take them into reception and have them wait there until they've contacted parents if they really must insist on sending them home and said I thought it was dangerous and irresponsible to send kids home, especially the younger ones, without letting someone know. As it was DD1 was sat on the doorstep for 5 minutes, but school weren't to know whether I was home, whether I'd gone for a day out with friends, at work, whatever. If something happened, I wouldn't know for at least 7 hours. She "took my comments on board" hmm

The head knows exactly which teacher it is and promised me she was having a meeting with him directly after our meeting as she wanted to address the issue with him

Anyway, it wasn't the complete waste of time I thought it would be and she didn't deny it happened, it was good to hear about the parents forum and actually, she's a nice woman who seemed happy to listen to what I had to say.

We'll see!

freddiefrog Mon 23-Sep-13 18:44:15

I'm not too happy about the coat situation, I don't see that a teacher (who no doubt travels in a nice warm car and wears a coat when it's cold) can dictate when my child wear a coat to school, but having said that, DD would rather freeze than be seen dead in a coat, so I'm not sure it's a battle worth waging at the moment.

The children have to keep their blazers on at all times, unless a teacher gives permission to remove them in class - all during that heatwave in July the kids had to wear blazers to and from school, in 30 degree heat, ridiculous. When we got home DD mentioned that one of her friends asked to remove her blazer in class today as she was hot - the teacher wouldn't let her as her friend said "can I take my blazer off" instead of "may I?" It seemed a bit power crazy. Poor girl was hot and uncomfortable, not bright eyed and bushy tailed and ready to learn

If she repeatedly went to school in non uniform shoes, I'd expect them to bollock her. Not one day in a pair of plain black inoffensive pumps when her proper shoes were waiting for her in school

They just need to be realistic and apply a bit of common sense. With the best will in the world stuff like this happens.

I'm going to email the head and summarise our meeting, reiterating my concerns.

redcaryellowcar Mon 23-Sep-13 18:44:42

I am in total agreement that you should write to them, it doesn't sound like this teacher even tried to listen to your daughter, which I find particularly amazing as I am sure if your daughter wasn't listening in and around school to a teacher she would be in all sorts of trouble!

Orangeanddemons Mon 23-Sep-13 20:02:48

As a teacher, can just say, it is against the law to send children home if they are wearing the wrong uniform. My school never ever does it, they have a nice pile of second hand uniform for offenders to wear, including a nice line in black slip on pumps.

I cannot, just cannot believe what happened here, it breaks every safe guarding rule there is

Doinmummy Mon 23-Sep-13 20:20:05

Op does your school begin with a 'B' ?

The numpty teacher sounds exactly like one at my DD's school

LynetteScavo Mon 23-Sep-13 20:45:39

Our closest school hasd a massive of collection of pumps, for those who turn up in non regulation shoes...then black pumps became fashionable so I'm guessing that back fired a little.

My friends 14yo was made to walk two miles home to get her blazer because she hadn't taken her blazer to school on a very hot summer day (my friend had told her if she was going to stuff her blazer in her bag there was no point taking it.) Luckily friend was home; what if she wasn't and dozey DC didn't have their key?

Euphemia Mon 23-Sep-13 20:57:24

Bloody disgraceful. My DD is the same age and I'd be RAGING if this happened. Her dad and I work 40 minutes' drive away - DD has a key to get in but then what? Sit at home all day by herself?

angry on your behalf.

BlueShirtBlueTie Tue 24-Sep-13 22:48:54

I've been reading this thread with interest OP and I hope you manage to get everything sorted.

That teacher sounds like a complete wanker. Did he know she was only in Year 7? Actually it doesn't matter he still shouldn't have done what he did.

ElvisJesusAndCocaCola Wed 25-Sep-13 05:51:09

The blazer thing is unbelievable! We have similar rules where I teach, but I take the view that I couldn't care less if they wear it while I teach, it is their body and their business and they can do as they see fit without asking. I say as much.

Surely any reasonable teacher would think along similar lines?

Dreading my lot starting secondary! ! I would also write to the school expressly telling them that you do not consent to your dd to be sent home under any circumstances during school hours without FIRST contacting an appropriate adult and that if it happens again you will be contacting relevant authorities.

BurberryQ Wed 25-Sep-13 09:04:07

throw a few phrases like
'failing in your duty of care' into the letter won't you?
that will make them poo their pants.

BurberryQ Wed 25-Sep-13 09:07:11

oh right sorry i see you already had a meeting.
that is simply not good enough 'taken your comments on board' indeed

freddiefrog Wed 25-Sep-13 09:15:13

I haven't heard any more from the head.

I sent an email on Monday night summarising our meeting and that I felt procedures for sending home children were dangerous - they should contact parents first but had no reply. DD did say that she didn't see the head in school yesterday so I'm going to wait until this afternoon to see if she responds

I was reading our local paper last night and there was a huge article about another local school doing the same thing - kids had been turned away at the gate for incorrect uniform so it seems it's not just our school with these policies

BurberryQ Wed 25-Sep-13 09:17:22

contact that journalist freddie, this is disgusting, has bog all to do with education, and should be stopped.

friday16 Wed 25-Sep-13 09:40:48

Schools don't like it when their name morphs in the eyes of sub-editors from "Wotsit Street School" to "Trouble-hit Wotsit Street School".

See, for example, here.

GreenLeafTea Wed 25-Sep-13 11:38:25

Trying called these people for free legal advice and find out whether the school acted legally or not.

www.childrenslegalcentre.com/

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