To see nothing wrong with eating dogs in principle

(88 Posts)
ReallyTired Fri 20-Sep-13 15:01:10

I have to admit that I have never eaten dog and I don't fancy the idea. However provided the dogs have a reasonable and are humanely killed, I don't think its any worse to eat a dog than to eat a cow or a sheep or pig.

I feel that rescuing animals which suffer cruety in Thailand like this woman has done

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-23785231

is a poor use of money. She has done nothing to improved the lot of dogs in Thailand.

In the UK there are lots of healthy dogs which get put down every year because no one wants them. Why could she not have given a Scottish dog a home? Sadly there is plenty of animal cruelty in all parts of the British Isles. The costs of paying for animal from Thaliand to fly to the UK and be quantinened would have saved numerous dogs in Scotland.

Rather than trying to stop dogs being eaten surely it would be better to set up farms and humanely kill dogs that are destined for the table just like sheep in the UK. (Ie. with similar hygiene standards to the UK.) Saving one dog by bringing it to England is not going to improve the dog meat trade in Thailand.

ButterMyArse Fri 20-Sep-13 15:08:01

I agree. And while I do care about the plight of animals, in a place like Thailand where there is child prostitution and abject poverty I think this money could've been better used elsewhere.

BrianTheMole Fri 20-Sep-13 15:12:44

I agree op.

JCDenton Fri 20-Sep-13 15:14:59

I also agree. I love my dog but I've kept ducks and chickens in the past and I eat those.

I think that the image of man's best friend will never be shaken in the UK and people will feel uneasy about it. We don't like eating horses, either.

WafflyVersatile Fri 20-Sep-13 15:15:45

It's like an elastoplast on a severed jugular but so much charity is the same. It's what gripped her and she did what she could. If she didn't do this she probably wouldn't be saving children. Presumably something she saw inspired her to act in this instance.

Should there not be donkey sanctuaries because Baby P!!?

I agree with the missions of many charities but I only support a few. You can't do anything so do what inspires you, and this inspired her.

WafflyVersatile Fri 20-Sep-13 15:17:46

I don't object to eating dogs in principle but I don't like the idea at all. We see them as beloved pets, not food and that's difficult to shake.

In Korea they beat dogs before killing them because they think the fear tenderises the meat so I wouldn't eat dog if I was there.

Lagoonablue Fri 20-Sep-13 15:18:41

In some parts of Thailand and Vietnam, dogs have their fur burned off whilst still alive so they are ready to kill and cook. I am not against eating dogs per se I guess but would like all animals treated humanely.

I know she has made minimal impact but it is hard not to be moved by the animals treatment in some countries. That is bad enough. The tolerance of sexual exploitation is a whole other bag which also needs addressing of course.

MothershipG Fri 20-Sep-13 15:20:52

I'm a dog lover, have 3 of my own, and would never want to eat them, but I agree that in principle there is no difference in between eating a dog or pig as long as they have suitable standards of welfare.

But as Waffly said the plight of this dog is what galvanised this individual to action and you can't dictate to people how they spend their money.

Incidentally you would hardly be able to make a meal out of my 3 little dogs, a bowl of soup maybe. wink

zatyaballerina Fri 20-Sep-13 15:22:00

yabvvvvu. Dogs are different from cows or pigs, they have been evolving alongside humans for the last 32,000 years, we are connected.

www.livescience.com/31997-dogs-and-humans-evolved-together.html

A cow or a pig won't save you or you're children from a housefire because we are not emotionally connected to them, dogs will because they have empathy and loyalty toward humans. It is very wrong to even think of eating them, they're part of the human family.

Pigs, BTW, are much more intelligent than dogs so they would be first off the list for me. I did stop eating them in Asia when I saw how they were treated. I didn't eat dog in Asia because I am a wuss and it is very expensive. Culturally dogs and horses, although eaten in other countries aren't food for British people.

I do think see must have seen children in prostitution in Thailand and chose to save dogs... but it is OK for people to have different focuses.

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 20-Sep-13 15:28:12

I don't like dogs, but I sort of agree with zaty. Dogs have been bred to empathise with humans and it's natural to return that sentiment. That said, I place dogs above humans and would eat a dog before resorting to cannibalism.

crescentmoon Fri 20-Sep-13 15:32:44

but dogs are carnivores?

SanityClause Fri 20-Sep-13 15:34:23

When I was in Taiwan, some years ago, I was lucky enough to be invited to stay with some people on their farm, for a few days. The father's attitude was that he couldn't eat beef, because his oxen was his friend. In just the same way we would choose not to eat our "friends" the horse or the dog.

PeppiNephrine Fri 20-Sep-13 15:35:13

We might have evolved together, that doesn't mean we are emotionally connected. I personally couldn't be less connected to dogs and would eat dog without batting an eyelash. Probably have already.

TheRunawayTrain Fri 20-Sep-13 15:38:21

YANBU. I love my dog. But in principle, fine. Pigs are a whole lot more intelligent and worth saving imo. But I wouldn't happily eat one as it's not my culture and I equate dog with my pet and walks in the park, not food. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

In the country where I live now, guinea pigs are still eaten in resteraunts. I didn't actually eat them as we have our own, but I don't actually see anything wrong with it, just couldn't make the mental leap between cute furry wheeking pet to tasty meat?

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 15:42:12

Dogs eat meat, that's why we don't eat them. We don't eat any carnivores, do we?

OrmirianResurgam Fri 20-Sep-13 15:45:13

In principle I agree with you. But I love my dog and anyone approaching him with a frying pan and a big knife is going to get sharp shrift!! angry

But I struggle to understand this 'Rather than trying to stop dogs being eaten surely it would be better to set up farms and humanely kill dogs that are destined for the table just like sheep in the UK'. Why? It's a big step from 'it's not that bad to eat dogs' to 'lets farm them and kill them for the table' hmm In the UK we don't eat dogs by and large because we see them in a different light - they are relatively intelligent and affectionate animals and we enjoy them as companions. Why would we farm them?

And they are consumers of meat - doesn't that make a difference? Don't people tend usually to eat herbivores? Taste? Toxins? Something like that....

OrmirianResurgam Fri 20-Sep-13 15:46:45

A few years ago we stayed in a house in Cornwall on holiday. The owner had a 'pet' chicken that she loved like a child (honestly!). Didn't stop her buying chicken for dinner.

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 15:50:21

Another YANBU. I have loads of objections to animal cruelty, but none at all to eating them. I do understand why some people can't face the thought of eating certain animals, for religious or emotional reasons, but, as long as the creature was healthy, not an endangered species, and was humanely killed, I'm not fussed.

The women in the OP are just good old eccentrics, though, aren't they? Cute picture!

KatyTheCleaningLady Fri 20-Sep-13 15:51:22

Herbivores are cheaper to raise for food, but lots of cultures eat dogs, so it's obviously a natural thing for humans to do.

PeppiNephrine Fri 20-Sep-13 15:53:25

Humans eat plenty of carnivores. Snakes, alligator, crocodile, shark etc. WE also eat omnivores like pigs, bear and so on. So that one doesn't really stand up.

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 15:54:09

Orm, my immediate thought, too, was "How would I feel about dog farms?" I feel a revulsion to the idea - I perceive dogs as too intelligent & self-aware, assuming they would suffer if farmed.

But, as Runaway points out, pigs are also intelligent and self-aware. I have my bugbears about pig farming, but am grateful enough for their abundant meat.

So maybe I'm a hypocrite.
Pigs are omnivores, too.

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 15:55:09

Herbivores are cheaper to raise for food - Are they? I thought they were really expensive!

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 15:55:15

Eating carnivores over a period of time is bad for you.

I lived in China and although there were lots of rumours of dog-eating, it was never on any menu I saw, and we went in pretty deep. In markets, they used to skin the legs of rabbits to prove they weren't cats.

JesusInTheCabbageVan Fri 20-Sep-13 15:57:57

A cow or a pig won't save you or you're children from a housefire because we are not emotionally connected to them, dogs will because they have empathy and loyalty toward humans.

My dog wouldn't save us from a house fire. He'd climb over us to get the hell out of there, bless his craven little soul grin

Pigs are social animals, just like dogs, and will form a bond with people given the chance. The reason most pigs aren't emotionally connected to us is because they aren't treated as pets, for the most part. If a pig were raised as a family pet, it would behave much the same as a dog. Just a bit cleverer and more oinky.

PeppiNephrine Fri 20-Sep-13 15:58:17

Bad for you how? Evidence for that bold assertion please.

OrmirianResurgam Fri 20-Sep-13 15:58:46

garlic - my objection wasn't so much about the farming being cruel but that is isn't neccessary. We don't eat dogs in this country so unless the OP was suggesting not only that it is OK but that actually it should be encouraged, I don't quite see the need for farms.

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 15:59:25

Pigs are omnivores only by default. They can't hunt and I don't think they would naturally seek out meat in any way.

Eating an animal is eating something that has eaten an animal that has possibly eaten an animal - you are further away from the bottom of the food chain which is more risky/expensive/less efficient.

CocacolaMum Fri 20-Sep-13 16:00:58

I agree with the OP on this. I like rabbit, I would probably like cat or dog too.

I also think we should be utilising the masses of perfectly edible protein rich insects though so probably not the best person to ask.

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 16:01:17

Hypervitaminosis A would be one likely outcome <I think>

crescentmoon Fri 20-Sep-13 16:04:52

BSE mad cow disease another....

elQuintoConyo Fri 20-Sep-13 16:06:11

principle is that like a bap? or a town in southern France?

expatinscotland Fri 20-Sep-13 16:06:42

I agree. Meat is meat. Some eat hamsters and guinea pigs.

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 16:08:01

I see, Orm smile I thought she meant in Thailand. Got to say I know very little about the matter of Thai dog-meat production.

Domesticvoyager, people have been eating the meat of carnivores for a very long time! Your statement is very odd. The only way you'd get hypervitaminosis A from food is by eating phenomenal amounts of liver.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 20-Sep-13 16:10:53

YANBU in principle.

Is it unreasonable to eat humans? In principle, we're animals too.

MrsBethel Fri 20-Sep-13 16:12:41

I'm with domesticvoyager on this one. It's most hygenic to eat herbivores to keep the food chain nice and simple.

On principle, I don't see a dog as any different to a cow or pig. We can't base our moral decisions on whether some people have them as pets or not.

I'm not a vegetarian, but really, I know deep down that eating meat is probably wrong. And it wouldn't surprise me if in 100 years people look back on us as pretty barbarous (in the same way we look back at times when racism was accepted and wonder "just what were they thinking?").

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 16:18:09

Dunno! It feels like a slippery road towards farming humans for food shock Although consuming the flesh of one’s own species offers a useful source of nutrients, it is also likely to contribute to the spread of pathogens, and, therefore disease, according to the nature site I consulted.

I would eat an already-dead person in an emergency, no problem. Not so sure about actually killing someone to survive ... this probably means I'm the one who'd be eaten!

DameDeepRedBetty Fri 20-Sep-13 16:18:29

The hypervitaminosis is known in exceptional cases, one that springs to mind is during an Arctic or Antarctic expedition back in the Scott and Shackleton period, a member fell ill and his friends fed him the softest, most nutritious bits of the sled dogs that they were killing off for the meat while stuck in the ice for winter.

DameDeepRedBetty Fri 20-Sep-13 16:20:08

Vitamin A concentrates in liver btw.

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 16:27:11

garlicbaguette what carnivores have we been eating? As a main part of our diet, obviously, not when we're marooned in a safari park or something.

I'm not speaking as any sort of authority. I just always thought it was obvious we didn't eat carnivores. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 16:29:00

Carnivores are less docile as well. THey would have to be fed many times their own weight in other animals before slaughter. And those animals would have to be raised and fed too, just as fodder. It would make the food chain uncontrollable, wouldn't it?

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 16:39:39

Domesticvoyager. In Britain, the omnivores we normally eat are:
Pig
Poultry, and other birds
Cod, and other fish
Prawns, and other molluscs.

We also eat some obligate carnivore birds and (I think) fish.

Britain's a bit short on obligate carnivores unless you count cats, which we don't normally eat. Carnivorous meat is more readily available elsewhere. In other countries I've had alligator, piranha and shark.

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 16:40:31

And squid/octopus!

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 16:41:53

same with cats. I hate cats and the fact that they come in and out of our garden, shitting where they please.

I'd rather eat them. that would learn them.

maybe it isn't ketchup after all. it is catsoup

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 16:43:33

Eeek, Zing, they do call it catsup in the US, don't they?
D'you reckon ... ???!
wink

domesticvoyager Fri 20-Sep-13 17:11:13

Hm, good point, I hadn't thought about fish, even though I've eaten piranha. But I hunted it myself - I wouldn't want to eat Sainsbury's piranhas that had been feed god knows what in a tank somewhere. The shorter the food chain, the better.

We are even advised not to eat any significant quantity of scavenger fish (that's tuna, I think) because of the when-animals-eat-animals effect of increasing mercury levels etc. Or is that something different?

Pigs can eat meat, but the pigs we eat haven't eaten meat. I don't think farmers are allowed to give them meat either.

SanityClause Fri 20-Sep-13 17:11:57

I saw dog carcasses hanging in a market in China, when I was there. I also spoke to people who confirmed that dog is eaten there. It's a delicacy, though, and supposed to have special health giving properties, particularly the black ones, apparently. Black goats are also supposed to have healthier meat than other colours, as well.

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 17:22:27

garlic
I always wondered.
fxgrin

I do really hate cats

I hate cats as well! Lets start a campaign to eat them!

ReallyTired Fri 20-Sep-13 18:06:04

I imagine it would be quite easy to farm dogs for slaughter. You would feed them cheap cuts of beef, lamb or pork. The hardest part would be that staff who would run a dog farm would need to keep an emotional distance from the dogs. Thought would need to be given on how best to allow the dogs to get exercise and have a reasonable doggy life before slaughter.

I am suggesting setting up a dog farm in Thailand and lobbying the Thai government to make it law that only farmed dog meat can be sold. Its terrible to think that people's beloved pets are stolen for the meat market.

ElenorRigby Fri 20-Sep-13 18:30:51

How about useless humans?

burningbrightly Fri 20-Sep-13 18:32:24

I am suggesting setting up a dog farm in Thailand and lobbying the Thai government to make it law that only farmed dog meat can be sold. Its terrible to think that people's beloved pets are stolen for the meat market.

Whaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!

What do you think life would be like for the farmed dogs? Or is it that, for you, value is linked to how much you are loved?

Are are you joking and I need another glass of wine?

StickEmUp Fri 20-Sep-13 18:33:18

I've often wondered if monkey would taste like human hmm

In principle a dog is like a cow etc. Ynbu

StickEmUp Fri 20-Sep-13 18:33:47

Not that I'm a cannibal but I wonder where the line would be drawn.

burningbrightly Fri 20-Sep-13 18:41:48

A dog is not like a cow at all confused. Cows only eat grass, dogs eat everything including their own shit and vomit.

FreudiansSlipper Fri 20-Sep-13 18:47:02

i have eaten dog

i did not know at the time i thought it was beef

i can not see the big issue with it or eating horse just i choose not to.

i would prefer money to go towards the many young boys and girls trapped and abused in the sex industry that is mainly for western customers

Smartiepants79 Fri 20-Sep-13 18:47:17

If you eat meat, you eat meat.
All domesticated animals have evolved (or been bred) alongside humans. That includes cows, sheep, chickens, goats and pigs.
I wouldn't choose dog particularly. Not sure it would taste that wonderful.
However, as a meat eater I can't come over all sanctimonious about people that do.
People who eat meat but get all squeamish and holier than thou about certain foods irritate me intensely.

JesusInTheCabbageVan Fri 20-Sep-13 18:52:39

I read a story recently about a man who had his finger amputated for medical reasons, took it home and ate it. He said he'd always been curious about the taste.

So, if there was a person who was happy for you to eat a bit of them (either post-death or post amputation) and there were no contagion/poisoning risks - would you?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 20-Sep-13 19:10:17

Consensual cannibalism http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 20-Sep-13 19:10:39
thanksamillion Fri 20-Sep-13 19:14:43

People do apparently eat dog where I live, although mainly due to hunger than any particular taste for it.

Our dog (which we'd found and nursed back to health) disappeared and local friends think that someone took it to eat because it was unusually well fed for dogs here shock

ReallyTired Fri 20-Sep-13 19:36:12

"Whaaaaaaaat!!!!!!!

What do you think life would be like for the farmed dogs? Or is it that, for you, value is linked to how much you are loved?"

What makes you think that life is picnic for farmed cows, pigs or sheep in the UK? Why is it so terrible to farm dogs for the dinner table?

It must be awful when a much loved family pet disappears. I suspect that stolen dog suffer a much worse death than any animal bred for the dinner table in the UK.

People on this thread who compare eating dog to canibalism are nuts.

StickEmUp Fri 20-Sep-13 19:49:59

I mentioned cannibalism as I do wonder if monkey tastes like human and would I try it and wonder...
It was a bit of an aside from the dog thing not a comparison hmm

Bubbles1066 Fri 20-Sep-13 20:03:02

I agree too OP. No difference between eating a dog or any other animal. Whilst I would love a veggie world unfortunately people want to (but only a few need to) eat meet so we should concentrate on the welfare of farmed animals.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 20-Sep-13 20:03:29

Ahem

excuse the typing i've got my lairy little guinea-pig and he's wondering if he really does taste like chicken. anyone eaten guinea-pig.

as a vegetarian of many years - over 33 years- i view all animals as potentially edible , just that i choose not to.

as an aside though. this woman bringing all these dogs to the uk.

why

i can't 'get' why people rave about these charities , i think k9 angels or similar who rescue dogs abroad and rehome to the uk.

yes, because we have no dogs in rescue in the uk do we.

we don't have 1000s of dogs waiting and being pts.

hmm

JesusInTheCabbageVan Fri 20-Sep-13 20:08:59

Olivia did a bit of person get stuck in your throat?

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 20:34:51

burning much like pigs and chickens then

StickEmUp Fri 20-Sep-13 20:44:08

Haha we've had threads about eating people I've only just remembered <awaits deletion>

ReallyTired Fri 20-Sep-13 20:46:22

"Haha we've had threads about eating people I've only just remembered <awaits deletion>"

I've never had a thread of mine deleted before...

StickEmUp Fri 20-Sep-13 20:50:19

My post I meant.
And there's a first time for everything smile

In theory, I can see your point. But as I type this I have a very cute curly puppy asleep next to me and an adorable spaniel laying on my feet. So it makes me feel a bit queasy. I could perhaps get with a cat casserole, though.

PrincessFlirtyPants Fri 20-Sep-13 20:54:55

Yes, YABU.

I don't eat any animals, so the idea of eating a dog is frankly disgusting to me.

garlicbaguette Fri 20-Sep-13 21:09:06

Olivia did a bit of person get stuck in your throat? grin

Sanity, I forgot about goats! I've eaten plenty of goat, and they eat ANYTHING. A goat ate my belt once, while I was still wearing it. It wouldn't let go, so I ended up cutting off the belt and leaving the goat to enjoy it as antipasto. I bet it was a Mumsnet benefits goat hmm

I know several people who've eaten their own placentas, post-delivery, obv. I guess eating your accidentally severed finger's just one small step beyond that; at least no other beings were harmed in the process! Meiwes & Brandes were just weird.

Domestic, the mercury's in the sea, thanks to pollution by humans. It doesn't leave the body so gets concentrated in the fish's tissue. I'm not sure whether eating other (polluted) fish makes carnivorous fish's mercury levels particularly high? It might, but then the algae & stuff that veggie fish eat would also be polluted. Anyway, you're right that we're only supposed to eat fish twice a week because we poisoned the bloody sea.
River fish don't contain much mercury smile

I think your campaign makes sense, ReallyTired.

MalcolmTuckersMistress Fri 20-Sep-13 21:34:36

No, I'm afraid I have a rule that I won't eat anything else that eats mainly meat.

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 21:35:36

<hides self from potential cannibals.
no pointing fingers, can't risk fingers being chewed off>

MalcolmTuckersMistress Fri 20-Sep-13 21:38:19

And fish don't count!

TylerHopkins Fri 20-Sep-13 21:41:22

What Princess said.

StickEmUp Fri 20-Sep-13 21:44:48

Zing don't mention fingers!!!!!!

Lweji Fri 20-Sep-13 21:46:47

On things that eat mainly meat, I once ate (reportedly) alligator.

And frogs, and camel (also reportedly).

Meat is meat. I think I'd be able to eat any cooked meat, just not kill the animal or human.

I'm more averse at some vegetables. blush

Lweji Fri 20-Sep-13 21:48:13

anyone eaten guinea-pig.

I know people who did. Some say they didn't like it. Others said it was just meat.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 20-Sep-13 21:51:08

JesusInTheCabbageVan

Olivia did a bit of person get stuck in your throat?

grin
Not sure unpasteurised human is allowed when preg.

utreas Fri 20-Sep-13 22:07:53

I would have no issue with eating dog, I'm sure it tastes quite nice.

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 22:14:17

Stick
I can't work it out if you are for or against. so I'm watching my fingers!grin

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 22:15:13

I don't even dare to wave to anyone... [scared]

<counts fingers and toes>

ButterMyArse Fri 20-Sep-13 23:07:24

I've eaten guinea pig, and dog. The guinea pig was ok, if a bit scrawny. Would eat it again (it's a delicacy where I live). Dog tasted a bit muttony. I'm not particularly sentimental about animals but found myself a bit repulsed by eating dog and wouldn't do so again.

ZingWantsCake Fri 20-Sep-13 23:11:53

this thread just reminded me of that scene in "War of the Roses" when Barbara Rose pretends to have made pate out of Benji the dog.

"Woof" is just one of best lines ever.
and her face. then his. then the table - a brilliant scene that is!

JesusInTheCabbageVan Sat 21-Sep-13 10:53:23

Olivia Just cook him/her well and don't eat the liver.

It's not your DH is it? Because that's what praying mantises do.

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