AIBU to not want BIL looking after DD

(126 Posts)
sewingsue Thu 19-Sep-13 21:23:30

BIL lives abroad and visits for 2 weeks every year. This visit he says he wants to take DD, age 2, out for the day by himself. I've said no as DD doesn't know him and he doesn't know her.

DH is cross that I'm making things difficult for him with his brother as BIL is asking why we don't trust him. To me it's not about BIL, it's about DD.

Am I being overly protective?

Catsize Thu 19-Sep-13 21:25:42

I think that pre-kids, I wouldn't have understood why this was a problem, but I do now. See how he and your daughter get on when he is here, and if they seem to get on well, suggest he takes her out for the afternoon or something?

MorphandChas Thu 19-Sep-13 21:26:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 21:27:22

No, YANBU. I wouldn't be happy about it either. At that age, children need to be with adults who know them, their likes and dislikes etc. Why doesn't BIL want you to be there?

jacks365 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:27:27

No yanbu. Ok he is her uncle but she doesn't know him. My dd doesn't spend enough time with her grandparents to enjoy a day out with them, I wish she could but time and distance play a part.

TheFallenNinja Thu 19-Sep-13 21:28:41

Not in a million years, where exactly does this fella want to go, for a day with a 2 YO?

McNewPants2013 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:29:16

Why not in the 2nd week.

They will both have a week to get to know each other, would taking her out for a few hours be that much of a problem. I am sure BIL wouldn't keep an upset 2 year old out and would phone you to say he was on his way back.

Eilidhbelle Thu 19-Sep-13 21:30:42

Nope, YADNBU. Can you not all go out? You could book a really packed day out to the zoo or something so you can spend lots of time together. But I wouldn't be happy with them being alone if they don't know each other.

sewingsue Thu 19-Sep-13 21:31:11

He wants to take her to the zoo.
I've suggested we all go out together instead but discussion is all around why I won't let him take DD by himself

quoteunquote Thu 19-Sep-13 21:31:55

Nope, if you don't want to that is the reason,

and any reason is good enough when it comes to having a say in who has unsupervised access to your child.

sewingsue Thu 19-Sep-13 21:32:46

He's really busy for most of the 2 weeks catching up with friends so we don't have time for them to get to know each other first

At two years old? No way would that be happening. Eight years old, depending on how they had been getting on, maybe.

pianodoodle Thu 19-Sep-13 21:33:24

If he only visits for 2 weeks a year it seems odd that he'd want to take her out by himself and not spend the time with all of you.

YANBU anyway.

MrsGarlic Thu 19-Sep-13 21:33:29

Er, YADNBU. She doesn't know him FFS! Even at nurseries and childminders they have settling-in sessions don't they? Why does he even want to take her out by himself? Why can't you all go out together? (not asking you, I see you've suggested it but YKWIM.)

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Thu 19-Sep-13 21:33:59

YANBU she is 2 for crying outloud. If she was a little older say 5 or so I wouldnt have a problem as long as child was happy but at 2 when she doesn't know him and vice versa? nope I woulfnt be happy either.

basgetti Thu 19-Sep-13 21:34:37

YANBU. Why is he arguing with you about this? No one has the right to alone time with someone else's children, he should just respect your wishes and spend this visit getting to know DD with you around.

McNewPants2013 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:35:49

I then take back my post, i wrongly assumed he was staying for the whole 2 weeks with you.

Why don't you all go together and if they're getting on well he can take her off for a bit while you and dh have a coffee together or something? Emphasise that you don't have an issue with bil and would be happy for him to have her on her own if he knew her or she was older but that it's not fair to either of them to be put in this position when they don't know each other.

YANBU

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 21:36:17

Why does he want to do that? And why is he kicking off about it when you said no? Very weird.

myroomisatip Thu 19-Sep-13 21:36:31

No you are definitely NBU... no way ever would i agree to this. And actually, I wonder why he would want to do this so desperately?

BumbleChum Thu 19-Sep-13 21:37:13

Can he change nappies? No single uncle wants to get involved with that one. Has he even thought about the practicalities? Let him get up early and entertain her in the house while you have a lie in - see how we'll be does at that!

IrisWildthyme Thu 19-Sep-13 21:37:34

Pre-kids-of-my-own I occasionally took a 2y.o. out for the day alone - but only after she knew me really well having spent many occasions with me and her mum together. It is totally not unreasonable to refuse this this year. If he visits for 2 weeks once a year I would expect to schedule fun days out with him and you/DH this visit and the visit age 3 - giving your DD hopefully sufficient memories of fun-uncle-insertnamehere that at age 4 she'll be happy to have a day out alone with him.

myroomisatip Thu 19-Sep-13 21:38:30

Yes THIS IS BULLSHit I think it is weird too.

HavantGuard Thu 19-Sep-13 21:39:08

I don't think it's at all weird that he wants to do this and am rather hmm at those who do. I do think it sounds like he doesn't really know much about children. It would be a long time without any familiar faces around and your DD doesn't know him very well.

BumbleChum Thu 19-Sep-13 21:40:42

-well he does

karatekimmi Thu 19-Sep-13 21:41:17

I would be asking why DOES he need tobtake her out by herself for the the day? Surely a family day out with the option of you and DH sloping off for a bit if its all going well is a better option.

fWIW I wouldn't be happy taking a 2 yer old I didn't know out for the day!! Does he have kids?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 19-Sep-13 21:45:17

YANBU. My SIL wanted to take my DDs on a day trip with a 50 mile there and the same back journey! I said no way...she was hmm but just does not know them owing to living abroad....not happening!

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 19-Sep-13 21:45:52

They don't NEED to "slope off" for a bit. No point.

TalkativeJim Thu 19-Sep-13 21:46:31

Um, and why is your DH also acting like a man who's never had more than a passing brush with a 2 year old in his life?! Annoyed because you're making it 'difficult' for him with his brother? How about you get annoyed that he clearly sees no problem in packing his TODDLER daughter off for the day with a complete stranger?! - because that's what he is, uncle or not!

How very strange. And why on earth has this 'discussion all around why you won't let him take DD by himself' lasted for longer than two sentences?

'Because she's two, and would therefore, because she doesn't know you, get extremely upset at being with you alone for longer than a very short time. She'd find it extremely stressful and therefore so would you, and I can't think of a worse introduction to you for her. However, if we all went together, she could get to know you on her own turf and you get to know how to look after her: food, toileting etc.'

What is there to argue from that?!

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 21:47:44

havant I think it's the insistence, and the questioning as to why he can't, rather than just understanding that the child is 2 and doesn't know him.
Just feels odd.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 21:48:56

Exactly jim.

5Foot5 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:48:58

Bumblechum is right, he hasn't thought through the practicalities. What will he do when she needs the loo? Does he know anything about her likes and dislikes? What to feed her. Is he used to small children at all?

I am surprised your DH can't see the potential problems with this - unless that is your DH is not much used to being in sole charge himself.

It has nothing to do with being over-protective or suspected weirdness or anything. It is just common sense.

Frankly before I became a parent I would have been very nervous of taking someone else's toddler for such a long time.

Jux Thu 19-Sep-13 21:52:46

YANBU. Not when she's only 2. He won't have the faintest idea what he's doing, for one thing. He's underestimating the task.

FleurEtParoles Thu 19-Sep-13 21:53:45

YANBU. He sounds naive and inexperienced. A 2 yo usually might still need a nap or get tired after a couple of hours. What about going to the toilet? What if he looses her in the crowd? Does he understand his responsibility? And you would be sitting at home feeling miserable. For me it would be no, no and no...

McNewPants2013 Thu 19-Sep-13 21:54:09

I don't know why it is strange.

I love taking my nieces/nephews out with out my siblings present. I can spoil and treat them and do my own thing with them.

Ledkr Thu 19-Sep-13 21:54:58

My daughter is. 2 and would be devastated if a stranger took her away from me for the day. It would be fairly traumatic for a child.
How about her nappy changes or toilet runs? IMO people who aren't used to kids can't do stuff like that.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 21:55:22

Yes but you probably know them pants, he doesn't know this child really.

MrsGarlic Thu 19-Sep-13 21:57:35

I don't think him asking is strange. I read the posts as saying that he (the uncle) was getting cross at being told no and insisting on taking her out alone, which I think is strange. But on a re-read, is it actually the OP's DH that is arguing about it?

hettienne Thu 19-Sep-13 21:58:45

Sounds like he hasn't thought this through or at least doesn't realise how little a 2 year old is.

He's probably thinking of it as a fun day out to the zoo hanging out, chatting, having fun like you would with a 5 or 6 year old - when actually a day out with a 2 year old is going to involve nappy changes, overtired meltdowns, communication difficulties, tantrums, separation anxiety.

Odd that your DH can't see it though!

namechangesforthehardstuff Thu 19-Sep-13 21:59:48

Another one who doesn't get why your DH doesn't get this?

Anyway your job to protect DD not two grown men who clearly can't think past themselves.

notanyanymore Thu 19-Sep-13 22:04:10

Its all about how you put it, 'I'm sure she'd love it but I'm not sure how you'd survive! Lets do something all together, I can be on hand for the poo and tantrums and you can just enjoy all the nice bits! grin )

SaucyJack Thu 19-Sep-13 22:04:37

YANBU to think she is too young.

Am very disappointed with some of the responses tho. There is nothing "weird" about someone wanting to take their niece out to the zoo in the slightest. Would you be saying that if it was the OP's sister in law instead?

notanyanymore Thu 19-Sep-13 22:05:55

(And to DH, 'but I want them to build a good relationship and him not to be put off by the poo and tantrums!!!)

Thepowerof3 Thu 19-Sep-13 22:06:36

I dont think its weird he wants to take his niece out but I also think you're right that they should fet to know each other first or it could be a nightmare outing for both of them

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 22:14:47

It is only weird because he is asking the OP why she doesn't trust him when he never sees her dd.
He visits for two weeks every year, so has likely seems her twice. She will have NO recollection of him.

And WHY does he want to take her by himself? What reason is there for him not to have his brother and SIL with him?!

I am not saying that uncles taking their nieces out is weird, just that something isn't quite sitting right with his insistence and accusations of them not trusting him?!

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 22:16:51

And yes if the SIL didn't know the dd and more importantly if the dd had no idea who the SIL was and had no memory of her.

AND! If the mother of the little girl said no!!!

My brother is lowly and amazing and has always been involved with my children but he wouldn't ask to take one of the out alone, especially when they were two. Especiallymore if he didn't have children.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 22:17:04

Ps OP YANBU.

ThisIsBULLSHIT Thu 19-Sep-13 22:18:34

My brother is actually lovely not lowly.

YANBU. It's nothing to do with not trusting him, 2 is too little to go off with someone you don't know quite well. Surely your dh can explain that?

MistressDeeCee Thu 19-Sep-13 22:39:46

What TalkativeJim said.

I cant believe your DP feels its cool for DD to go off with a man she doesnt know hence wont feel comfortable with. Even apart from I feel its strange he wants to spend the day with her anyway (why? doing what? are his young children coming over too, to spend the day doing kiddie things with them/does he have young children?) then what about DD being upset? She's just 2 years old fgs she'll be anxious being away with a stranger and not a parent in sight!

I hope common sense prevails over your DP having some point to prove about his brother. Even if you dont trust his brother then, so what? Just because a man's related to your DP that doesnt mean you know him well simply by association and HAVE to trust him. My brother spent time with my girls over the years, daytrips etc but they know him - we all live in the same city & their uncle was a regular feature in their lives. Not some bloke they barely knew who visited on occasion and wanted solo time with them to be a part of that visit.

Stick to your guns OP - when a mother has an intuition & gut feeling that something isnt quite right then normally...it isnt.

sicutlilium Thu 19-Sep-13 22:45:53

Why don't DH and BIL take her out together?

HavantGuard Thu 19-Sep-13 23:28:23

I've actually had a similar situation in reverse. DH and I were much younger and had arranged to take our niece out for the day. Her mother did the 'It might be easier if I come with you, if that's ok' thing. We were shocked because there was no way we had ever even considered her not coming with us. We'd changed nappies before but there's a big difference between changing a 4 month old and changing a 20 month old who doesn't want to be changed!

He probably hasn't even considered the practicalities or how young your DD still is.

YellowTulips Thu 19-Sep-13 23:43:23

This one is all about compromise.

Go out together and IF the LO
is comfortable and happy then maybe a couple of hours with her Uncle would be ok (on the basis he will not be too far away and will call).

It's healthy for kids to have these extended family relationships and great your BIL wants to be involved (assumes he is not an asshole).

However a full day is too much as a start point IMHO.

elcranko Thu 19-Sep-13 23:47:03

YANBU, I wouldn't leave my DD with someone she didn't know for the day, family or not. She'd hate it! Maybe if they get to know each other during his trip and get on well then he could take her to the park for an hour or something towards the end of the second week. Only if your dd is happy to go with him though, if she's not then I wouldn't force her just to keep bil happy.

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 23:50:56

Just say no - if BIL is offended, so be it. Your DD is the priority, don't be pushed into anything you aren't happy with.

I also find it strange that he wants to take her out for the day when he hardly knows her.

OliviaPope Thu 19-Sep-13 23:51:09

Just say no - if BIL is offended, so be it. Your DD is the priority, don't be pushed into anything you aren't happy with.

I also find it strange that he wants to take her out for the day when he hardly knows her.

GrandstandingBlueTit Thu 19-Sep-13 23:53:55

This is one of those silly situations where you're having to pander to the 'hurt' feelings of two grown adults, who seem to think their egos take precedence of the emotional well-being (I don't want to over egg the pudding, but really) of a two year in the care of a virtual stranger.

It's frustrating, indulgent and time-wasting.

Tell them they both need to cop onto themselves, and then come and talk to you about some sort of compromise once they've got over themselves. smile

enjolraslove Fri 20-Sep-13 08:04:57

I said no to a similar but less extreme- my bil wanted to take 4 yr old dd out for a day to a theme park. He has known her her whole life and sees her once a month probably so she knows him well. I still said no because he has never been alone with her for more than 10 mins and I just felt from nothing to an entire day was too much and would make it very difficult for him if she got upset/had an accident/was difficult. He was disappointed but we compromised that he and dp would do it together while I was at work and we would build up to it with a couple of short independent trips to the park etc. so I think you are being completely reasonable and feel free to use me as an example of someone who is truly unreasonable to placate him!

SmokedMackerel Fri 20-Sep-13 08:28:59

Of course it is up to you and your Dh what your daughter does and who she spends time with.

Sounds like your dh is happy about it and you not - so you need to discuss this issue together. Presumably your dh knows his brother better than you, and reckons he would cope, so you need to let dh put his brothers case before saying a flat no, and he needs to let you voice your concerns, then you need to be united in your response to bil, whatever it is.

I can't believe all the people who are shrieking that it is weird for an uncle to want to take his niece for a day out, predicting he won't be able to change a nappy (hardly rocket science!)

We live abroad too, and hardly see family, but I happily left my two year old with her single, childless uncle, he took her to the playground and swimming, and bought her chips hmm,and she had a lovely time! She hardly ever sees him, but she knows who he is because she sees him on Skype and we talk about him a lot, so maybe it is different.

EsTutMirLeid Fri 20-Sep-13 08:34:09

I'm with smokedmackeral. He is her uncle. My childless SIL loves taking DS out without us. Does she not 'know' him at all. Do you not regularly Skype so she can see him and him her.

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 08:39:21

Weird? Ffs!

It's up to you of course OP and if you feel your daughter wouldn't cope then say no. I think at 2, my ds would have been fine with it - the excitement of the zoo would've won over any feelings of insecurity. Not all 2 yos are the same.

My concern would be that the adult in the situation was aware of toddlers' propensity to bolt, be thoroughly irrational, and need nappy changes. If they were aware and capable of handling that then off they'd go.

TVTonight Fri 20-Sep-13 08:47:56

The reason why this is weird is because the OP is being manipulated.

Asking to spend the day with child- not weird
Asking to spend day with child, but insisting the mother isn't around: weird
Manipulating the mother after she has said no with 'Don't you trust me?': red flag.

soundevenfruity Fri 20-Sep-13 08:53:50

It's quite astonishing how many people are questioning his motives. He needs to understand that quick and extreme bonding that works with adult won't work with 2 year old. Saying that I would take very active part in helping to form and maintain a relationship with him. Who wouldn't like a fun uncle! Why not plan outings with him before he comes? And fir now both BIL and DH can take your child to the zoo.

FeetUpUntilChristmas Fri 20-Sep-13 08:59:17

I have 2 nieces and 2 nephews who I see regularly and 2 DC of my own, their parents did let me or my DH take them off for a day on our own at the age of 2, no problem.

I also have a niece who is just 2 that I have only seen 4 times, the last being at Christmas, she doesn't know me at all and I would have no idea if what she eats etc. I wouldn't want to take her to the zoo on my own and neither would DH.

Tash28 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:03:27

I am an auntie to a toddler who i see for a couple of hours a day a few days a week. Knowing this toddler this well there is not a cat in hell's chance I would want the responsibility of looking after him on my own. For a start, excluding the fight at nappy change time or the tantrums, the propensity to be there one minute gone the next would have me on pins all day.

My 4 month old is a doddle in comparison!

I agree with previous posters both men are being indulgent and I defo agree it's odd to use emotional manipulation to try and coerce you into doing something you don't want to do when he doesn't know the child at all.

ChasedByBees Fri 20-Sep-13 09:05:00

Why on earth can't your DH understand why this isn't a good idea? confused

Squitten Fri 20-Sep-13 09:05:38

I have never, and will never, understand why some people are obsessed with seperating little kids from their parents. There are so many threads about grandparents, etc, demanding to have children "on their own" from when they are really little! My niece is nearly 2 and it just wouldn't occur to me to take her away from her parents unless they wanted me to babysit.

I would also be saying no to this OP. She is too little to just waltz off happily with a total stranger and have a happy time. TBH, my DH would just have to be cross and if they wanted to make me the bad guy, so be it.

DeWe Fri 20-Sep-13 09:08:25

It depends on the child though.
Dd1 would have gone happily at 2yo feeling like a "big girl" and very impressed with herself for being so grown up.
Dd2 wouldn't at 2yo but would at 3yo. In fact at 3yo she'd probably have been inviting herself.
Ds is 6yo and still probably wouldn't unless it was something he thought sounded really brilliant. He'd probably say he'd go if I was coming too even then. He's already told me I'll be going on his school residential in year 6 with him. grin

dancingwithmyselfandthecat Fri 20-Sep-13 09:55:02

Squitten the reason, in some cases, why people want to spend time with children seperately from their parents is that it can be a much easier way of getting to know the child. I've seen this with neices and nephews and godchildren - when mum or dad is around, they tend to talk to them, or communicate to other adults through them. On their own, they will open up a lot more. Equally, a lot of adults without kids think it might be nice for the parents to have some time to themselves. If they don't know the child well, and don't spend a lot of time with young children, the difficulties may not occur to them.

It really does depend on the child. At two, one of my nephews asked if he could come with me and DP when we left their house to go and visit another friend! He did and he was as good as gold. Another one of my nephews is now eight and has just for the first time ever expressed an interest in going on a day out just me and him and DH (his mum wants an excuse to come to London, go shopping and catch a matinee, we'll be taking him to the zoo etc).

Ledkr Fri 20-Sep-13 10:30:58

Squitten I agree. Why can't people see their young relatives with family?
Dd2 only sees pil occasionally as they live away, she takes most if the first day to warm to them when they visit as she forgets them and even then still wants me if upset or tired.

peachmint Fri 20-Sep-13 11:42:30

I think this is extremely weird. If he actually cared about spending time with her and getting to know her, he would be happy to do that in your company at first and to gradually build up to taking her out by himself.

The "Don't you trust me?" stuff is very weird and manipulative. OP, if I'm honest I have major alarm bells ringing and I think you need to check into him quite thoroughly and see if he's got a history of this. I'm sorry but it's very odd and my gut reaction is that you need to be careful with this man.

Oceansurf Fri 20-Sep-13 11:49:53

Weird weird weird. Please do not allow him to have your daughter alone.

I don't give a toss if he's related - he's a stranger, your DD doesn't not know him at all, and could be frightened.

I have inlaws who keep insisting like this. They have only seen DD 3 times since she was born. Yet want to see her on their own for a whole day. Not a cat in hells chance.

Please, just take the flak and stick to your guns on this one. Something doesn't fit right with me here at all. hmm

Wibblypiglikesbananas Fri 20-Sep-13 11:54:09

Totally odd. Either he's very misguided or has ulterior motives.

My brother lives abroad. He's hardly seen our 2yo (though she recognises him from Skype). There is no way he would sugges a day's jaunt with her next time he's over. That's because he has the emotional intelligence to realise that she would be distressed without us, that he is effectively a stranger to her and would enjoy building Duplo towers with her with us around much more!

I really don't like all the mentions of trust - why even insinuate that you might not trust him, thus backing you into a corner? You either trust him and she goes or don't trust him and she stays.

And your DH? Pandering to his stroppy brother's demands? He needs to grow a backbone.

Dubjackeen Fri 20-Sep-13 11:55:58

Not sure he has thought this through. I am fairly used to minding children, of various ages, but I would baulk at taking out a two year old, for a full day, who doesn't know me. Does he have any idea what is involved, nappy changes, tiredness, what she would like to eat/ not eat...
YANBU. To her, he is a stranger, she is a little 'un, and her needs come first, in this scenario.

guiltyconscience Fri 20-Sep-13 11:56:25

No no no not on gods earth would I let any fecking man take my dd out on her own feck em all I say. yadnbu op!

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 12:32:50

If a relative I trusted but who didn't know my toddler well offered to take him somewhere nice, and my partner objected because that relative was clearly a paedophile (which is what people are getting at here), I'd be hurt and angry and think he'd lost the plot.

Oh, and what dancing says. The dynamic is completely different when a child's parents aren't around - is that so difficult fathom?

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 12:36:26

is that so difficult to fathom, I mean.

SisterMonicaJoan Fri 20-Sep-13 12:43:58

It's the insistence that he take her though. Like OP now has to hand her daughter over just to prove that she trusts him hmm

How old is your bil op? Is he too young to realise that your DD is too young to be away from you with someone who isn't used to being around children? Or should he be old enough to understand that it's too much too soon?

After how he reacted to "no", I wouldn't be letting her go with him - that's no to say he's a wrong 'un or anything, but not emotionally mature enough to look after a toddler..

Chusband Fri 20-Sep-13 13:05:26

I think it is his reaction to the OP saying no which is weird, rather than the request itself.

burberryqueen Fri 20-Sep-13 13:15:02

just say no it is v weird, sorry.

oldgrandmama Fri 20-Sep-13 13:21:50

No no no. Really bad idea. But why not suggest you all go out with BIL, as a family?

JackNoneReacher Fri 20-Sep-13 13:21:58

What GrandstandingBlueTit said.

I'm just tired of these threads about adults who are utterly self centred.

I have no doubt he would cope but would it be good for her to spend a day with a complete stranger? What does she get out of it? Fuck all. If he wants a good relationship with his young niece he needs to build one like every adult/child has to do. Not expect a day out to be some sort of team building event and a substitute for getting to know and trust and adult.

Tbh I think its a really bad message to give a young child too. Don't go with strangers etc etc except today, go out for a whole day with this total stranger...

JackNoneReacher Fri 20-Sep-13 13:24:44

Incidentally I think its very unlikely that the relative is a paedophile.

However I am not in the habit of leaving my 2 year old alone, with someone who is a complete stranger to her, male or female, related or otherwise and for a whole day.

persimmon Fri 20-Sep-13 13:29:13

Alarm bells would be ringing in my head. YADNBU.

CeliaFate Fri 20-Sep-13 13:39:49

My consideration would be for my dd. She wouldn't have a clue who this man is and wouldn't feel comfortable with him. You won't be able to relax. Your bil has no experience of looking after toddlers and won't know what to do if she cries, hurts herself, wants mummy etc.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions to his motives - he's her uncle and he wants to spend time with her. But it has to be on your terms and if he doesn't like it, then tough luck on him.

ashleysilver Fri 20-Sep-13 13:52:21

The thing of BIL asking why you don't trust him sounds a bit like emotional blackmail to me. Then you have to 'prove' you trust him by letting him do what he wants. Or if you don't do as he says, it 'proves' you don't trust him.

YANBU for doing what is best for dd. As somebody said upthread What does she get out of it? Fuck all.

Buzzardbird Fri 20-Sep-13 13:59:42

It's a 'no' from me. 2yr old child should not be encouraged to go anywhere with people she doesn't 'know'. Either do it altogether or he will have to wait until you and your dc know him better.
Tough shit to anyone who doesn't agree with your decision.
You have to act in the best interest of your child...not other's.

TVTonight Fri 20-Sep-13 14:35:11

But Jenai if it was subsequently explained to you that the actions of that relative were classically "Tricky", would you be prepared to at least consider it?

"Tricky" things this person has done include: looking to spend time alone with the child, being forceful about this, looking to use family ties to push, using guilt and being affronted.

I have no idea whether the BIL is dodgy, or maybe he doesn't like the OP and is trying to minimise the time he spends with her, or he's just planned his holiday in his head and doesn't like anyone else scuppering his plans. But his behaviour makes it seem like the outing is about him and his wants not OP's child.

RenterNomad Fri 20-Sep-13 16:21:47

Has he a new girlfriend to impress, or something?

avolt Fri 20-Sep-13 16:25:11

I'm a mum but I couldn't cope with a 2 year old I didn't know. You need that sixth sense that stops them just before they run off or climb something they can't get down from.

He's probably got some notion of bonding with her and doing something lovely. But absolutely no idea about the practicalities. I think when he meets her he might start to comprehend.

drivingmisslazy Fri 20-Sep-13 16:28:39

I would not be happy about this either. If they were older and got on then that's different, but not at 2.

MistressDeeCee Fri 20-Sep-13 16:28:53

What JackNoneReacher

Sometimes I feel women have to be very thickskinned once they become mothers. Why is it so often women arent listened to, or thought to be precious, or overbearing etc when it comes to their own children? As if when you become a mother you somehow lose your senses and everyone else knows you, and your child, better than you?

As a mother the OP has said no, & is quite clear why she feels uncomfortable. BIL & DH should just bloody accept it! or compromise, both DH & BIL take DD out if theyre so fussed, whilst OP has some 'me time' for the day.

But, oh no..its all about browbeating the silly little woman with fanciful ideas. Its bullshit. & I wouldnt necessarily be one of those who thinks he must be a paedo but Im not going to knock anyone who wonders, because abuse of children normally comes from a family member who is highly enough thought of by adult family members to have access to their child. No is no. & yes, BIL being this forceful about it as opposed to ' oh, ok why dont we all go then ' does ring alarm bells with me.

Its not going to be a fun day out for DD all circumstances considered so, whats it all about, really? power? control?

phantomnamechanger Fri 20-Sep-13 16:29:05

bloody hell YANBU

so many reasons, will he even be able to understand her talking? know what she likes/does not? how would he cope with a crisis/tantrum/upset/illness/nappy change etc etc etc

blood relative or not, your child does not KNOW him
there are other ways he can build a relationship with her.

I would be saying no if the DD was 16, TBH!

And its decidedly odd that he is making out you are paranoid/do not trust him, instead of just trying to see it as what is best for HER

MistressDeeCee Fri 20-Sep-13 16:59:59

meant to say, I agree with what JackNoneReacher said

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 18:10:31

But TV I don't think, from what we've heard, that there is anything tricky about it. There are great gaps which people are filling in - as we all do on threads - because we only have a few lines of text from the OP to go on.

How about, he's insistent because he really, really wants to spend time with his niece? Time where he and she can bond and he can play the over-indulgent uncle? He's quite possibly over optimistic about how fun a day they'll have, granted, although as I said earlier not all young children would feel terribly traumatised by going out for a day with someone they don't really know - especially not if it's the zoo. I find it interesting that the same people who berate the uncle for knowing FA about children seem not to know this.

Or how about Renter's suggestion? Which wouldn't make it a good idea to let them go by any means, but at least it's ill-judged rather than sinister.

Talking about the gaps btw - do we actually know that he has no experience of small children?

The OP has made three fairly short posts. From which it has been decided that the uncle doesn't know anything about 2yos and that the reason he wants to know why the OP isn't giving her blessing to this day trip is not that he's a bit hurt and doesn't understand why the OP doesn't trust him, but that he has nefarious plans. It's bizarre.

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 18:19:43

Apologies to the OP there - she states quite clearly that this is about her daughter and not about her not trusting the uncle. I wonder how that was expressed? Maybe her husband hasn't actually explained that to his brother and it's him who is offended rather than the uncle.

Thing is, we just don't know.

TVTonight Fri 20-Sep-13 18:51:49

How about, he's insistent because he really, really wants to spend time with his niece? Time where he and she can bond and he can play the over-indulgent uncle? He's quite possibly over optimistic about how fun a day they'll have,

His niece is not a chattel to be handed over.

You may be right, but the way he has gone about it, the wheedling, manipulation and ultimately a disrespect for the OP would get anyone's back up

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 19:03:19

Nor is she chattel to be "owned" exclusively by her mother. She is a person in her own right, who should be allowed to form good relationships with other people who have her best interests at heart.

I'm certainly not claiming that the OP is possessive - we don't have enough to go on for me to say that - but I do often wonder about some of the threads you read objecting to grandparents spending time with their grandchildren and the like.

Jux Fri 20-Sep-13 19:14:04

Dear BIL

1 she is very young
2 she does not know you
3 you need to build up to it so she feels safe and secure with you

That's it.
Thanks, love, SewingSue

Why are people saying hes insisting and trying to emotionally blackmail the OP when all the BIL asked his brother was why they don't trust him?

He asked to spend time with his niece that is all. Fair enough saying she doesn't know him so for her DDs sake she wont allow but the posts on here about him been weird, been an alternative notice etc isn't necessary.

expatinscotland Fri 20-Sep-13 19:35:24

YANBU. Show your DH this thread.

sewingsue Fri 20-Sep-13 19:46:58

I've only just had a chance to catch up - wow, so many replies.

There is nothing sinister going on. BIL is a lovely guy who means well. No, he can't change a nappy. He was retching over the sink the one time he watched her nappy being changed! His girlfriend and her nephew would also be going for the day so she would be responsible for the practical stuff I assume. For the record they know her nephew well, she used to look after him.

DH is now getting it in the neck from many parties who all think BIL should be allowed to take DD out for the day. These people don't have their own kids! BIL is still seeing it as a trust thing even though DH has insisted it isn't.

I'm being made to feel like an evil mother who is causing family rifts.

JenaiMorris Fri 20-Sep-13 19:47:09

and he'll see a bunch of absurd overreaction, expat confused

Chusband Fri 20-Sep-13 20:06:09

OP you said in your original post that he wanted to take DD out for the day by himself

It is obviously less weird if there is in fact a girlfriend and another child going. But that's not what you said.

sewingsue Fri 20-Sep-13 20:09:47

I meant 'by himself' as in not with me or DH
It's about me not wanting DD to be away from her parents with anyone she doesn't know

Chusband Fri 20-Sep-13 20:11:22

I still don't think you're being unreasonable but less so than before, IYSWIM!

Tash28 Fri 20-Sep-13 20:14:12

How forceful is dh being though in explaining its a no and why? If it was me and my family, it would be a no and there would be little discussion and that would be the end of that. Not other people jibbing in also trying to coerce you to do something you don't want to. It sounds like he might be being a bit like mine...a bit sitty on the fence and shifting the focus onto you. It also sounds like he's also trying to manipulate you into it happening.

I can see why the Bil wants her now...it doesn't take away from the fact that a couple who don't have kids are taking out 2 on their own. I still wouldn't in your position. It also doesn't miraculously mean that he knows her and her quips. You're not being possessive or overprotective, you're being a good mum. Just because he's a relation does not in any way give him automatic and unfettered access to your child. Not even for anything sinister, just because he doesn't bloody know her!

Oceansurf Fri 20-Sep-13 20:14:51

Fine, he's lovely. But he's still a total stranger to your daughter hmm

Why on earth would you even feel bad about saying no?

Let him and the girlfriend come and spend time with you all - as a family.

AintNobodyGotTimeFurThat Fri 20-Sep-13 21:19:15

I definitely wouldn't let my partners brother take DD out for a few hours on his own, although she is only 6 months old at the moment, but the same would apply if she was 2.

It's not that I don't particularly trust him, although he isn't the most sensible person sometimes but I know he'd look after her really well as he has a little girl of his own, who is 7 months older than my daughter.

However, she doesn't know him well and wouldn't cope well. If she hurt herself or got scared, she'd want me (that's even true for now, so I imagine even more so at 2). She would also possibly push her luck with him, might get confused with what she is and isn't allowed to do and most importantly not be very used to him, considering she only sees him a few times a year, as far as things are going at the moment.

So I really don't think it's a matter of trust I think it's more to do with how your daughter would feel. Explain to him how this would be for your daughter, not you. If he can't see that, he isn't being very respectful to your daughters needs and that's not so nice.

I really think it's the place of your partner to explain this to him though in a clear and concise manner. If he doesn't listen to his brother, he's probably unlikely to listen to you. But maybe you could explain it a bit better? It depends a lot on the relationship you have with your BIL (close, formal etc).

I second what a previous poster suggested. Go all together and perhaps he could take her for 30 minutes whilst you and your partner have a coffee in the café or go and see a different attraction. That way she is getting time with him, but you aren't far away if there is anything bothering her (or him).

If he doesn't have his own children he wont realise how daunting it can be if you have a little child really, really upset. My daughter got really hysterical yesterday and I nearly ended up crying and I am her mother and in general know what to do - so for an unexperienced man to deal with this would be quite difficult.

I also think it depends how well you know the girlfriend too. After all, if you don't know her well you wont know how well she'll deal with your daughter out and about and how well your daughter will respond to her.

I hope this can get sorted so your BIL can have a good time when he visits. smile

Sorry that was a mammoth post.

BangOn Fri 20-Sep-13 21:24:50

he needs a reality check.

serin Fri 20-Sep-13 21:52:50

I feel you led us up the garden path with that one OP.

First you say on his own and then it's with others hmm

farewellfarewell Fri 20-Sep-13 22:22:37

No, yanbu. Your 2yo doesn't know him. That is the start and finish of it for me. Why would you send a 2yo off for the day with a stranger? It would be frightening for the baby.
I had a similar situation with a relative who was keen to help me out and I desperately needed a break! The problem was that my babies didn't know the relative from Adam and the relative had never cared for a baby before. I had to say no and extended family went on about how hurt the relative was!
Tell them it is not about bil (why can't they see that?!) . His reaction would put me off even further frankly.

maddening Fri 20-Sep-13 23:23:16

this man has clearly never been to a zoo with a 2yr old! Yanbu !

Your BIL is undoubtedly a very nice, well-intentioned, clueless man. In his head, your daughter is Tatum O'Neal from "Paper Moon"- not a pooey, tantrummy, clingy, bolty two-year-old who will be anxious and probably frightened if carted away from her parents by a total stranger.

Your DH, who ought to understand exactly who your daughter is and what she will be able to cope with, is being an absolute fuckhead.

maddening Fri 20-Sep-13 23:42:41

and how old is the nephew?

DuelingFanjo Fri 20-Sep-13 23:55:04

YABU. Your DH should understand that sending a two year old out with a stranger is utterly ridiculous.

DuelingFanjo Fri 20-Sep-13 23:57:09

Sorry, that should be YANBU!

ukatlast Sat 21-Sep-13 01:27:25

YADNBU - you do not know your BIL's girlfriend and neither does your daughter - GF will have her nephew there who will be her safeguarding priority.
Stick to your guns - your daughter is not a chattel you are forced to hand around like a parcel.
I think the only person who ever had charge of mine and for brief periods at age 2 was my own Mum.

ukatlast Sat 21-Sep-13 01:28:16

..and my DH of course.

complexnumber Sat 21-Sep-13 02:00:20

I took my niece out when she was 2.

We had a lot of fun.

AveryJessup Sat 21-Sep-13 04:20:03

It's less concerning now you mention that his girlfriend and her nephew will be coming along because that means there will be a responsible adult along with him who has some experience of childcare (from what you say about the GF taking care of the practical stuff!).

Maybe he just wants to play happy families with his GF for a day and have a 'fun' outing at the zoo. He clearly has no idea how much work a 2-year old can be!

Maybe you can compromise with him and let him take your DD out in the morning for a few hours e.g. from 9-12 and then take her home. I don't think many 2 year olds would last longer than that anyway with a lot of stimulation and new people around. They tire quickly at that age...

I don't think it's weird either. We spent four years living overseas and both my husband and I would take our nieces and nephews out alone when we visited, both younger and older.

My husband loves them, just as he loves the rest of his family. To suggest that wanting to spend time with them is in any way 'weird' is a horrible testament to the suggestors mindset.

OP if you aren't comfortable with it then that's up to you, you know your child. But please ignore the scaremongers who are implying there is something wrong with your bil wanting to spend time alone with your child. I worked with child sexual offenders, so tend to know a lot more about them than your average person (and often wish I didn't!) and I don't think this is weird or indicative of anything other than an uncle wanting to give his brother's child a fabulous time, but, because he doesn't know your child he isn't aware that they may not be ready for a full day with him.

Incidentally he's not wrong for asking either, some children, my 23 month old included, would happily go off for the day with someone they don't know well, whereas others won't. Both are fine.

Gah, stupid phone!

It's down to the individual needs of the child. I would let my DD go because I know my brother and sil can cope with a toddler, even though their first is still cooking, and because I know my daughter will be fine despite not seeing them very often. But that's her. I fully accept that another child may be the exact opposite, so on that situation, despite knowing my db and dsil would be fine I would say no, because the child wouldn't be.

If your child would potentially not be happy you are absolutely right to say no.

Catsize Sat 21-Sep-13 07:02:38

'GF Will have her nephew there who will be her safeguarding priority'.
Oh. My. Word.
I after think of my son as my 'safeguarding priority'. Hilarious.
Glad uncle no longer thought to be world's greatest peadophile now there is a woman in tow. confused
Poor blokes - they get a hard time nowadays.

Catsize Sat 21-Sep-13 07:03:05

Often. Not after.

Inertia Sat 21-Sep-13 08:12:45

It's not the right thing for your child - that should be the end of the story. She isn't a toy to be shared out, or a token to be handed over as proof of trust - she is a toddler with her own practical and emotional needs, and there's no reason why she should be dragged away from her parents to spend the day with three people she doesn't know.

Without making any accusations, I really don't get why they are insisting you and dh can't go along too. Surely a family day out for all of you would be more fun and easier in practical terms?

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