to wanna tell my friend - WAKE UP. HE DOES NOT WANT YOU(49 Posts)
firstly just let me say. she is so sweet and lovely. she is beautiful, slim and funny and could have anyone tbh. she is a brill friend and i don't want to hurt her. however she is a bit naive tbh, she is 30 but this is only her 3rd relationship in her life
she was with this total dickhead who fucked her around for 18 months, finally becoming such a total shit to her that she ended it with him 6 weeks ago. i think he deliberately became
even more of a twat to her so she did the dumping, saving him having to dump her, the spineless little wanker
she decided a couple of weeks ago she wanted him back because she just loooooves and misses him soooooo much. (WHY? why would you miss someone who made you miserable and fucked with your head all the time) i have no idea) so she has started texting him and saying she wants him back
all contact is initiated by her. and he is clearly not interested in having her back, as IMO if he ever wanted her in the first place, he would not have treated her like shit through out the whole relationship for a start, and when she finished it he would have tried to get her to change her mind. which he didn't. and he occasionaly answers her texts in wishy-washy "nice" ways, giving her hope. but i think its that he is too spineless to tell her he deffo does not want her back
she keeps asking me for advice but she just does not seem to be listening. i have (gently) said he does not seem to want you back, but she just doesn't seem to want to hear me. she is going to end up looking stalkery if she is not careful
i am at my wits end, i want to help her but how can i? sorry its long
Be direct and be firm. Tell her straight that he doesn't want her.
I remember being like that and wished friends had been a bit straighter with me. It would've hurt at the time but quicker and less pain in the long run.
Oh yeah, tell her! Fgs! Tell her!
By her 'he's just not into you' on the premise of it being a chick flick and see if it rings any bells with her.
she knows, she must do. she will however only leave him alone when she is ready to. be gentle but firm and tell her this is enough now. Some people need to grieve for relationships but there is a limit on this and she needs to see that the more time she wastes on him, the less time she will have for her (and for anyone new!)
missfenella i tried to gently explain to her the basic premise of the book of "he's just not that into you", to absolutely no avail
i believe STRONGLY that if a man wants a woman, he will move heaven and earth to get her, this is because i have been round the block
many a few times and i know this from my own experience
she keeps making excuses for him, like, oh he is really passive, he is not the type to chase someone etc. its just bullshit and she is not stupid, far from it, so why does she believe it?
I think I might be your friend! Lol jokes
This could be my dp. We're still together but he's being a total cock. Thankfully my mate is currently texting me telling me his behaviour sucks bigtime
I value my mates opinion and I'd definately prefer them to be straight eith me. Sit her down and be firm but kind and tell her you don't want to see her hurt x
I agree that if she's asking for advice then tell her.
But once you've told her outright, in a way that you can still be friends afterwards, leave it at that.
Don't be stressing and sad for her, she's an adult and has to make her own choices/mistakes. It's not your responsibility if she's not listening, and I mean that you should be protecting yourself to some extent.
This shouldn't have you at your wits end, if it does you might have to back off a bit.
You sound so lovely though just leave her to it and be there for her with tissues.
Buy her this. One of the best books I've ever read.
He's Just Not That Into You
Sorry, cross post.
Don't explain the premise. Buy her the book. Let her read it in her own time.
i believe STRONGLY that if a man wants a woman, he will move heaven and earth to get her, this is because i have been round the block many a few times and i know this from my own experience
Maybe not move heaven and earth. But he will leave her in no doubt as to how he feels about her.
Wasn't a cross post. I just didn't read the whole thread before posting.
I'm going to put the vodka away now.
some great suggestions so far as to what to say to her
i am glad none of you think i am being a bitch
would really appreciate any more suggestions please as i am going to have a good chat with her later, as she text me last night saying she had text him AGAIN but she was all happy as he has actually replied this time so there he is again giving her hope. but i know for a fact that had she NOT text him he would not have text her
i could throttle the little shit. he wants to man up (hate that saying but he does)
Ah I had a friend like this although the knob head came back twice telling her he still loved her In the end she saw it for herself. No amount of telling it to her straight stopped her. Some of her friends were judgemental when they got back together but I just always tried to be there for her knowing she'd need me when it went tits up (again).
Fast forward a year and she is now with a lovely guy who clearly treasures her
Another film that's useful is The Holiday. That moment when Kate Winslet's character's blinkers finally come off is awesome!
oh god your poor friend. well i am glad she has found someone nice now
i would personally rather be single than put up with any level of fuckwittery
i don't want to be judgemental of her or anything and i do want to be there for her but it is just so wearing listen to her asking for advice about the same old shit that i have already gave the same advice a million times and nothing changes
Yes it took her taking him back twice before she saw the light. He kept talking about marriage then getting cold feet. The first time he left her was horrendous. I really hope this new fella goes the distance, she's 33 and I know she wants a family sooner rather than later. Hopefully your friend will get a happy ending too
I have been in a similar situation to you, where a very close friend was determined to stay with a bit.
You can tell her all you like, but, in the end, she will do exactly what she wants to do.
Unfortunately all you can do is wait for the fall out and be there for her when it happens.
You are nicer than me.
I have been listening to a friend bitch about her husband for 3 yrs. she is drowning in bitterness. And I just want to scream SHUT UP
i emailed her yesterday in reply to her asking me what i thought about his latest text, which was in response to her texting him. i am worried now as have heard nothing back and i am worried she has fallen out with me. as its unlike her to not be in touch. i think i have really offended her.
here is (an edited to avoid outing anyone) what i sent her. :
*when it comes to the XXXX situation my answers are always the same. i dont mean to be a bitch, i love you dearly, you are my best friend, and its breaking my heart seeing you tying yourself in knows over someone who just does not give a shit about you. and who you are about a milion times too good for.
so am going to say a few honest things:
in my honest opinion, you are wasting your time on him. and i really think you should back off now. if he wanted you back he would leave you in no doubt about that. at the moment you are in limbo.if you hadn't have text yesterday, he would NOT have text you. i would honestly bet my life on it.
all you are doing by keep texting him is dragging it out. and it is unhealthy for you. you need to focus on you, getting well, and having a good life without him. as when
you were with him you were never happy anyway. you can blame yourself all you want but the bottom line is that your relationship failed because he trreated you like crap, you were so low on his priorities it was unreal.. sorry but the reason for him being such a shit boyfriend is because he just didn't want you enough.its wasntt because of his work, it wasnt because of his personality type, it wasn because he is a passive, unemotional type of person etc etc, its because he didn't want you enough. i know thats hard to hear. and i am sorry. i also think that his behaviour got even worse in the last few months because he wanted YOU to dump HIM. and it worked. so this is why i think you should just walk away. if you have to, delete his number, block him on facebook, do whatever you have to do but please keep your dignity and don't do this to yourself anymore. it will be hard, very hard, because at the moment you think there is still some hope of getting back together with him. but there isn';t because if he wanted you back he would have made it very clear a long time ago thats what he wanted. and i honestly really hate him for doing this to you the spineless little shit. god help him if i ever see him in public, i will verbally tear him to bits. and i genuinely hope he ends up with no body and nothing, he will the way he carries on
at the end of the day though you are an adult and can make your own decisions / choices, and i will always be here for you no matter what, even if i don't agree with them.
again, i hope i have not offended you. please believe me when i say i am saying all this as a friend and i do not mean to hurt you. hope you don't fall out with me xxx*
what do people think? have i been too harsh??
No, just honest.
When I did this in my mid-twenties, 2 male friends sat me down over drinks and explained in brutal terms what the bloke was up to. It really smarted but it went in. I stopped hanging on after this man and he never had power over me again.
In your friend's case (like mine), I think he will never completely sack her off. He likes the ego trip, and he probably wants to keep her as a possible shag for times when he's got no one better to do.
Is your friend scared to be on her own OP? x
Without being too harsh to you, it is too harsh.
It's no holes barred but trying to cover that over with not wanting to offend her.
You've forced her to choose between you and him, by calling him a 'spineless little shit' and saying you're going to let rip at him if you see him, there's no way she can see you both at the same time, and she can't talk to you about him either.
There's nothing subtle about the email, I can't believe you thought she'd be OK with you saying that about someone she loves.
He probably is a wanker, but she loves him, and now you've left her to him.
god help him if i ever see him in public, i will verbally tear him to bits. and i genuinely hope he ends up with no body and nothing, he will the way he carries on
That was probably unnecessary, but no, I don't think it was harsh. She may not like it but you're right.
That email is honest but will hurt her for a while, the "He did not want you," repeated over and over again will make her feel very worthless for a while.
Sorry to double post,
I think the whole think about tearing him apart is a bit harsh too sounds to combative.
And whats the getting well bit about? is she ill?
but you can tell you care about her.
I have a friend involved in a "similar arrangement". She met him the same time I met my husband, although I'm the one who is now married with children and she turns 40 shortly.
I have tried telling her kindly - and, not-so-kindly. All it does is hurt her - and as heart-breaking as it sounds, she's lost friends because they've just come to the end of their tether with it.
He's shagged other women - although apparently they raped him and tricked him with their vaginas. He's stolen money, lied, oh you name it.
All I can do is nod and smile. She won't want to hear it.
Hmm I doubt she'll take it well She probably needed to hear it but there's no guarantee she'll take it on board. I just hope she values your friendship and stays friends with you.
It probably won't stop her either.
I am in a similar situation with a friend. He can not contact her for months and months and months and she still makes every excuse under the sun for him.
All we can do is listen and pass the tissues and wait.
I hope your email gets through to her, but if it doesn't I think I know why. You and she are assuming some fundamentally different things.
To you, if a man is a shit to you and clearly not interested in you anyway, that is your cue to kick him to the curb.
To her, if a man is a shit to her and clearly not interested in her, that is her cue to start building a massive internal romantic fantasy about how he does want her "really" but just can't see/accept/admit it, and she just has to persevere against the odds, wait and hope long enough, and do/say/wear the right things, and she'll "cure" him of being a shit and he'll suddenly have a revelation and realise he does want her after all. Because all her lurve and sacrifice will get a sort of cosmic payback, you see?
Probably sounds nuts to you but I'll bet anything she really believes that.
So everyone who says to her "he's a shit and he doesn't want you" is playing the role of "doubter" in this romantic narrative and making her more determined to persevere.
She needs the Baggage Reclaim blog/book.
tbh i doubt she will take it on board. but i just couldn't carry on any longer not saying what i really think
i am just sick of listening to the same old stuff all the time and her asking what i think, and me having to pussy foot around
if she drops me as a friend because of it then imo have not lost anything as a true friend would not end a friendship because the other person has been honest
and yes she is ill. she has got ME. and all this shit with this dick head has really not helped matters
can't stand fuckwittery from men and i would NEVER put up with it myself
I am really sorry if I missed something op but he sounds like a bloke who wanted a casual relationship and still does. he wasn't married to your friend or engaged so really what does she want from him? he isn't going to commit and why should he?
your friend is bombarding him with messages and affection and could be seen as being the unreasonable one here. he might or might not be 'a shit' but he's a free agent.
your friend seems a bit childish for a 30 year old woman.
you sound lovely and your email was spot on.
your friend may be enjoying the drama of your rage and his indifference. remember that.
That's the revelation I had (thanks to my friends' intervention) about my twunt: all that was on offer from him was an occasional shag preceded by lots of (cynical) flattery. I could take it or leave it but I would never persuade him to offer more. I decided my self-esteem wasn't low enough to take it. His parting words? 'You'll change your mind'.
She's probably lonely and frightened, grabbing on to anyone who's passing to stop herself drowning (no offence to you OP).
I know he won't make it all better, but sometimes even a spineless little shit is better than facing the four walls on your own (and I agree with you OP, I'd rather be on my own than with a twat).
Just want to agree with above posters that you should buy her a copy of the book 'He's just not that into you' (the film is really wishy-washy, but the book is brill, a real eye opener to me in the past)
Because for some reason, hearing it from your friends can just get your back up/send you into denial etc even though of course you (OP) are totally right... reading about it from a Man's point of view (which is how the book is written) REALLY helps it sink in.
Giving her that book is the biggest favour you can do her.
Trouble with you slagging him off is that she will rationalize it by thinking "Oh well dirtyface just doesn't like him, she's bound to say those things".
When a girl gets like this (and I include myself here), they get completely blinkered and cannot see sense. It will only be once she's over it and out the other side that she will realise you were right all along.
Hope this doesn't ruin your friendship
Hand her HJNTIY (yes, I have acronymed the book as my friends and I referenced it so much to each other whenever one of us was hanging on a thread for some shit-head), and tell her you love her and don't want to fall out over him.
To her, if a man is a shit to her and clearly not interested in her, that is her cue to start building a massive internal romantic fantasy about how he does want her "really" but just can't see/accept/admit it, and she just has to persevere against the odds, wait and hope long enough, and do/say/wear the right things, and she'll "cure" him of being a shit and he'll suddenly have a revelation and realise he does want her after all. Because all her lurve and sacrifice will get a sort of cosmic payback, you see
you know what madbuslady? i think you have it spot on but i have not been able to articulate it. this is exactly what she is doing/does
and when men are nice to her, don't fuck her about, and want commitment etc she dumps them and turns them into joke figures amongst her and her friends
she is quite childish tbh but there are reasons for that
That was when I was pretty young though and I think it does come from self-esteem problems partly, and also society kind of encourages women to "work on" relationships in a way that some of them take way too far.
I think what snaps people out of it is a bit of gentle self-mockery (cos it is a ridiculous way to be), and also the realization that their feelings/their relationship/their man are not precious and unique, the same pattern is being repeated by hundreds of other women. That's why i recommended the Baggage Reclaim blog, if you can get her to read a few posts about "Mr Unavailable" she'll see this bloke in black and white - and herself.
We've all been there haven't we! Convincing ourselves that a bloke is interested in us when they just aren't. The thing is, when someone is in that mindset, it doesn't matter what you say to them, they will not hear you.
By sending your email, you are now the bad guy. She will realise you were trying to look out for her at some point, but not while she is still hung up on him. Be prepared for her to be angry with you for now.
Relationship wise she is obviously quite naive.
Yanbu op and I think you sound like a lovely supportive friend.
However I have been you friend and the more people said he's not in to you the more I convinced myself he was.
I think your just going to have to wait for your friend to have her breakthrough moment. I never had mine till I got with dp and saw what love really is.
It sounds like friend has really low self- esteem and doesn't believe she's worthy of love. Could you encourage her in other aspects of her life like her career to give her the confidence boost it sounds like she needs
You know what's going to happen, don't you. They'll get back together and both of them will hate you. gahh
trust me treadheavily he is not going to get back with her.
Unfortunately, what might ultimately snap her out of it is when he finds someone else and acts completely different. Seen it a million times, the bloke who doesn't believe in marriage etc then goes and gets hitched to someone else within 5 minutes.
In my experience the only way to stop blessing about someone is to cut ALL contact. No Facebook etc. Any news from the guy whatsoever just feeds the fantasy. It needs to 'burn out'.
I hope she wakes up and realises this sometime before.she wastes years on the guy, him replying to texts is just feeding her fantasy, I bet she keeps the text and reads it again and again analysing everything down to the last full stop sigh
May have been there
Obsessing not blessing, ffs !
I've been there, and I would have welcomed what you wrote, but often these things need time to sink in, and need to come from a variety of sources. She needs to change her whole way of thinking, and that's not an intstantaneous process, and has to come from within her.
I agree with SamHamwidge that seeing her with another woman might help most of all. That's what happened with me - just finished uni, infatuated with a man who blatantly told me I wasn't his type, he preferred big busted, model type women. Then I saw him with his new girlfriend, and while I'm sure she is a lovely person (she would have to saintly to put up with him), she certainly wasn't a model, or even well, never mind, I'm not going to be bitchy.
If he is the sort to hide other women in his life, then that's more tricky. It might be that he is deliberately stringing her along for his ego.
But just give her time. I think being trying to get her interested in other men is a different issue. Some men that decide they want you are actually bloody irritating, and women are allowed to be choosy too, and not just pick a man who wants to get married and have kids and a cosy home asap.
well i spoke to her yesterday, i asked her if i had upset her and if she had fallen out with me. but we are fine. <phew>
she actually said she was grateful to me for being so honest and that it takes a real friend to do that. bless her.
but she has said that she IS still going to pursue this guy...apparently she is meeting up with him next week. which i know that SHE will have to chase HIM to arrange (AAARGH)......she says she wants some "closure" either way....that she spent 18 months with him and doesn't just want to give up for the sake of keeping her dignity, she says it is not about keeping her dignity its about being honest with someone she gave everything to and spent so long with.
so i have just said i respect your decision etc. and i do in a way. i will always be there for her and i won't judge her (although i guess i AM judging her by posting this thread ) ....so i think now its just a case of waiting with tissues
oh god i know its going to be an absolute car crash when he does let her down as she really does take things like this badly. but i am also worried that because he is such a spineless, cowardly jerkoff he will not admit that he definitely does not want her back and will keep her strung along indefinitely with his "polite" occasional replies
thanks for all the advice everyone, thank god for MN x
about being honest with someone she gave everything to and spent so long with.
Why does she feel she has to be honest with him? He's not being honest with her. I agree he will string her along indefinitely.
You've done the best you can anyway, and I'm glad she hasn't fallen out with you.
Bless her, she's determined to get her heart trampled on isn't she. Glad she's not holding it against you though.
Just found this from my fave book (I know I keep banging on about it, I'm not on commission honestly, but it helped me Sooooo much when I was hung up on useless twats) -
There are some real gems in there, and here's the quote from there that's probably most relevant to your friend:
“But what I can do is paint you a picture of what you’ll never see when you’re with a guy who’s really into you: You’ll never see you staring maniacally at your phone, willing it to ring. You’ll never see you ruining an evening with friends because you’re calling for your messages every fifteen seconds. You’ll never see you hating yourself for calling him when you know you shouldn’t have. What you will see is you being treated so well that no phone antics will be necessary. You’ll be too busy being adored.”
When I finally found a guy who WAS into me, it was such a revelation... no obsessive phone checking, no fretting about whether he liked me or not etc god it was an eye opener to how pathetic I was in the past.
You sound like a really good friend, but I think you've said everything you can now. Just be there to pick up the pieces when the inevitable happens....
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