To think moving in with DP is at the detriment of my children?(270 Posts)
The £900 per month thread made me think about my situation.
My DP of 2 years wants to move in after Christmas. He earns £38k. I work part time as I have a 2, 3 and 6 year old and earn little. I receive some housing benefit, tax credits etc and without the tax credits to help towards childcare my job isn't worthwhile. I am studying for a degree and my job is experience for my career. At the moment I work 3 days in school hours so get to do all drop offs and collections and eldest ds gets to do extra curricular activities. When DP moves in I will be working for no money as will receive no tax credits towards childcare. I can either continue doing that or get a full-time job (which DP expects me to do immediately after my degree is finished in April) - in which case my outgoings will increase massively due to childcare and I will barely see my children, extra curricular activities will have to stop etc. They like him but I feel they will really resent the change in their lifestyle bought about by him moving in. My eldest hates the after school club and the youngest two would struggle with going to nursery more. I made it clear from the beginning of our relationship that I believe children should have a primary carer around the majority of the time until at least 7/8 - we discussed this in relationship to potentially having children of our own. However now he has different expectations and I feel him moving in will be at the detriment to my children. AIBU?
You are an adult, a worker and a mother with your own life and your own hopes and expectations for and about your children.
So who is he to come waltzing in and dictate major changes to a set-up you put in place because it suits you and you can afford it?? I'd want to know his justification for this.
I would be willing to work for nothing and give up the tax credits, as long as he would pick up the financial slack there. After all, it is experience for your career and will benefit you in the end.
However, this worries me: I can either continue doing that or get a full-time job (which DP expects me to do immediately after my degree is finished in April).
You don't want to work FT. You have built a life that means you do not need to so immediately. Why does he insist on FT work from April?
Say no to him. You do not want this. Don't do it.
You don't want to do it & you're right. If he's worth his salt then he won't 'make' you.
What is his relationship like with your DC? When you two got together you had a new baby, he may have been a bit of that DC's dad, as your most recent partner before him.
If he is not ready to be a good dad to your DC, because he resents their demands on you, I think you may have a bigger problem than just your working hours.
Also, why exactly is he moving into your house when he is the one with the money? Doesn't he have his own place? You might want to be careful about giving up or sharing any protected tenancy you may have in your own right.
It's Ok for him to have different expectations, and to come up with plans for how to realise them. But it's not OK to impose them on you. If he's coming at this from an angle of "I so much want to be with you and have a real family life, I want it to happen as soon as possible, and weren't you taking that degree to improve your career anyhow - lets crack on with it" then he's being reasonable, but hasn't done his sums, nor thought hard enough about childcare. You can work through that together.
If you think he's just thinking of his own comfort and not your wider family life and future, then it's quite different (especially if he's in rented and his lease is coming up).
Either way,, don't let him move in until you are 100% sure.
But it seems the only alternative I have is to say: you can only move it if you support us financially. Which doesn't seem fair either. I love him and want to be with him but he will work away 4/5 nights per week anyway so I don't feel the benefit of him living here would outweigh the financial/lifestyle impact on my children.
Have you both sat down and discussed this fully - full financial disclosure, so to speak? If not, YABU. You have to both understand how the family will work financially.
If you have and he is just expecting things to be his way, then YANBU and you should think very carefully. When people tell you who they are, listen.
Oh and full-time jobs - not too many of them around atm. I'd hate for you to be pressured into taking any old job post-qual, is that what he means?
He gets on well with the dc and has dc himself. His dc are in childcare from 7-7 mon-fri but I don't want that for my dc and have always made that clear.
But when he moves in you become a family, surely? So everything is pooled, it's not a case of one supporting the other. I think you need to talk about this properly.
It sounds as if your DP doesn't want to support your DC financially, and thinks you should work to support them to the detriment of time spent with them by you.
I would be very wary of moving in with a partner who makes so few concessions.
Yes, if he move in, the only alternative is for him to support you financially. As you say, the impact of him moving in with be financial dependency on him. That's okay if the relationship is strong and he is committed to what is best for you and the DCs - after all at some later date he may depend financially on you, and that's what family life is about, supporting each other.
However it seems like in exchange for his money, he wants to dictate your life and workload. I wouldn't make that exchange.
This may be a daft question but if I works away 4/5 nights a week so you won't see him why does he want to move in?
This isn't really about the moving in, this is about the "DP expects me to get a full-time job immediately in April". Why is this? What is behind this?
He earns a very decent wage. If you do combine households he won't be paying for his current rent/mortgage/bills so there will be some spare. Don't know whether that will quite compensate for the loss of tax credits.
If his own DC are in 7-7 childcare, that lifestyle may well be his parenting norm. You could have a major problem here.
And no, he doesn't have his own place. He gets to stay in hotels through work all week then with me/his mum/friends at weekends. Yes he isn't fussed about me finding THE job, just A job. Of which there aren't many here.
If you love each other to move in, then it shouldn't even be a question of asking him to financially support you, you become a family unit and the support is given.
If you are questioning that, then he shouldn't be moving in, because it won't be a true partnership, it will just be something that is convenient and nice because it's easier to see more of each other.
How about suggesting his DC come to live with you in the week so that he saves on childcare?
And he's using the fact he currently has no mortgage or rent to pay off his debts so technically I am helping to support him at the moment.
Of course he has to help out financially .
It would be crazy to financially disadvantage someone you loved (you losing benefits) and not want to compensate them for that.
There's no point him moving in unless you work out what your joint finances will be, otherwise he's basically a flatmate, and a flatmate at that who's costing you money.
It is clearly a good deal for him to move in with you. You must explain to him that it needs also to be a good deal for you and your DC.
His dc live 80 miles away and wouldn't want to leave school etc plus their mum doesn't drive so would make contact difficult
Why not postpone moving in together? Until either you graduate or kids are all in primary or whatever?
You should not rush to move in and make a family. Your kids will be at risk of upheaval and your financial situations are vulnerable.
He doesn't have his own place.
Major alarm bells for me there.
You have got a great set up for you and your kids. Don't let me come in and turn it on its head. Stick up for what you know is right for your children.
Yikes, he has debts as well?
He expects to help with rent and bills but has said he wants me to earn at least £1000 per month
I think you must say no to him moving in. Tell him it is far too soon - you want to get your degree etc before committing to a shared life with all the constraints that implies.
I'd also point out to him that as he will be working away in the week, you will be effectively be a single parent to three working full time. No fun at all for anybody.
Debts will be paid off before he moves in.
I have to go, but it sounds like your gut is saying "no way". Listen to it - there are so many warning signals here. Good luck.
Have you discussed the practicalities of him moving in? You've got kids so he's joining an existing household and a family so have you discussed what parental duties you're both happy with him taking on?
I'm not saying he becomes their dad but there will be times when he has to care for them, discipline etc. it would be a good idea to cover that before he moves in (your methods for dealing with thingd) so he doesn't just sit back and leave it all to you or make you feel he is treading on your toes.
In that conversation should be "here are the household expenses, here is the money I have (including benefits) to cover them and here is the difference ill lose by you moving in". IMO by moving in he should be making up the difference. If he's not prepared to then you can't afford for him to move in.
Surely by moving in, you are both commuting to a long term future so you need to find a way to managing your household expenses, it maybe that not every bill is split 50/50 but that he pays more on utilities so you can cover the short fall in child care.
But I don't think you should go full time if you can afford to be part time and in doing so your costs will go up. It's not his call
I don't understand the idea of moving in together automatically makes you a family, but I am foreign and it's not quite the same in America.
I really, really think that you should postpone this. If he won't wait, then I think he's just looking for a home.
My DP of 2 years wants to move in after Christmas.
What do you think about that? Is he pushing it?
But it seems the only alternative I have is to say: you can only move it if you support us financially. Which doesn't seem fair either.
The state sees that two adults in a relationship, sharing the same dwelling, both contribute to the costs incurred, which is why they take away your benefits with the assumption the second person will step in if they're earning enough. Logically, it makes sense to say you can only move in if you cover the shortfall as we will no longer be separate but a whole unit.
If he does not want to commit to the unit as is, then why does he want to move in rather than continue the current set up?
In my opinion YANBU at all. As you said yourself "I don't feel the benefit of him living here would outweigh the financial/lifestyle impact on my children."
I'll be the first to say it then. Cocklodger. Sadly you seem to have found yourself one of those
How old is this manchild exactly?
He thinks me being a single parent to three while working is easier than not working as they'd mostly be in childcare...! I would rather see them and enjoy them. My degree will be in place for when they're older but right now they are young and my priority. When he talks of moving in he says how it'll be settled for them etc but realistically they're more than happy as we are. The only one moving in will improve things for is him.
OP, I am mostly hearing you talk about what he wants! As another poster said, your gut seems to be telling you something.
What's the benefit to him moving in? You can enjoy sex and companionship with the way things are now.
My gut instinct is screaming don't do it. He "expects" you to get a full time job and earn at least £1000 a month? He's not considering you or your children in this, sorry.
You know the answer yourself don't you.
Wasp - he wants to move in, get married, have babies etc. I think the current set up works, personally and don't see the point in changing it for now.
He expects you to earn £1000 a month???
And to get A job when you've finished your degree ASAP.
And to put the dcs in childcare for long periods even though you said you don't want that for them.
But he is happy to contribute the rent and good bill and ... Anything else ?
Sorry but I wouldn't accept that arrangement. Moving in with you means he will have to support you too and he will have to accept that you will parent your dcs your way, not his. Otherwise, you will end up living a life completely opposite to what you want.
If you do make some efforts for him to move in, he needs to appreciate he needs to make some too.
Lots of red flags!
Tell him that you will revisit the idea after graduating in April. Not that he will move in then. But that you will discuss it.
His reaction to this should be very telling.
Never move in with anyone unless you are completely on the same page about all the important things. Children are especially important. If you're not happy about things, delay moving in. If for no other reason than it sets a precedent that you will not allow him to override plans you have already agreed on.
You don't want him to move in and it's perfectly ok for you to tell him this.
But he sees it as me not showing commitment I guess if he doesn't move in.
The children would like him to live here but not if they realised it'd mean missing out on me.
You mean have more babies as well as the ones he doesn't see being 80 miles away (am presuming he doesn't see them much)?!
no way Jose.
I do sleepy, but not if it means my kids are worse off.
But you're right not to show commitment at the moment.
You're not on the same page about lots of important things. It would be crazy to commit before your attitudes to things like finances and childcare are reconciled.
How and when does he see his dcs?
Well maybe he's right about you not showing commitment, but it's actually very healthy to not be ready for that level of commitment in a relationship where so much is not resolved.
Please stick to your guns with this. Many step-parents are fabulous beings who truly understand the enormity of the role they have voluntarily taken on. They understand that DC come first not because of a hierarchy of love, but because of a hierarchy of needs. The other step-parents who don't get this are the ones who manage too fracture the relationship between children and biological parent, sometimes to an extent where it can't be fixed.
Are you afraid of losing him over this?
You seem to have fairly opposite views on family life, work/life balance and fulltime childcare which is bound to cause problems longterm unless he knows now that you don't intend to go fulltime when they are still young. He sees his expectations as being totally normal (7-7 childcare) and you very much don't.
The money thing is odd too. The government will take money away when you have a partner earning £38k living with you because the assumption is that a partnership means just that - shared outgoings and income. If he wants to be a lodger in a financial sense, how does that tally emotionally with being partners and living under the same roof?
How old is he and why has he nowhere to live?
The debts are worrying as well.
I really don't think this is a man you should let move in with you.
What is he doing to show his commitment?
There are too many red flags here to count.
I really wouldn't do it.
And the fact that you're even questioning it is answer enough imo.
Your spidey senses are tingling. Never ever ignore them.
You have your children as the perfect reasonable excuse not to enter into this agreement. Don't be afraid to use it.
There's at least five more years in which you are going to differ (until the baby is 7) and thats if you dont have kids together. Five years is long enough for the relationship to crash if he doesnt move in, and too long for you to hold out and/or argue about this.
I think he needs to understand that he has had free accommodation for a long time, but if he moves in, it will increase his costs because your entitlement to benefits reduces. He may think that the way to get past this is for you to work full-time, but that's not on offer and never has been. Actually, he has to pay for it, just as he would pay for rent in other circumstances.
In the medium term, getting back to work, using your degree and reducing your family's dependance on benefits all makes excellent sense. He just needs to accept that it's a ten-year plan, not a short-term one. There may be a middle way, as you may find you can get a better paid part-time job once your degree finishes.
I do echo other posters' concerns that he has had rather an odd few years- hotel existence, debts, no base of his own. This may be self-indulgence or it may be the fallout from his previous relationship- we dont know, though I hope you do.
I'd run a mile from this.
Its all about him and his wants, none of you and your childrens needs.
You both have very different ideals.
When does he see his children?
FannyFifer his debts would be paid.
would you maybe worry if he ran up more debts? I think I would be slightly worried re more debts.
I hope I don't cause offence to anyone reading this because it is just my opinion, but I think moving in with someone becomes very different when there are children involved.
When it's just adults, you can maintain your independence. Split bills rigidly down the middle. You are two individuals sharing living space. Hopefully with a lot of love and good sex, but essentially autonomous. You can try it out as not forever but a trial run. Avoid crossover in each other's lives, etc.
When you have children, that just can't be the same. Deciding to move in with a DP once you have children should be taken as seriously as getting married. And the DP should, IMO, accept that by moving in he is not only taking on the role of partner, but also of parent (that doesn't mean usurping the non-resident parent, but acting in addition to). That means, providing financial support and emotional support in the same was as if that child was his/her own. It doesn't necessarily mean loving that child the same as a biological child (though in most happy households, that grows with time anyway), but the behaviour shown should be as if the child matters as much as any biological child and with the same degree of commitment towards it no matter how challenging or inconvenient that may become.
If there are any doubts before moving in, they will become yawning chasms afterwards.
You are showing commitment to your children which is very important. He is secondary to that. That's just the way life works when your partner already has children. This should be a plus point in your favour, a personality trait that is attractive. If that's a problem then maybe he should move on rather than trying to shape you into what he wants to the detriment of your children.
It also wouldn't be a good idea to have children with someone with fundamentally differing opinions to child rearing. How much does he see his children? How does he actually parent? I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks you're too soft on your own children.
You are not unreasonable to be sensible about all this. He is unreasonable to have time limited ultimatums and make this about emotions (you're not committed enough - accusations of don't love him enough?) rather than the fact you are blending families and so need to have more planned and thought out logistically.
Dahlen - of course it is different when children are involved. I think this is what we're trying to point out to OP, eg pros/cons etc.
I, personally would be spitting mad as well at the expectation of getting a job earning x amount per month. what happens if OP were to lose (redundancy etc) that job? her DP doesn't sound overly supportive to me. jmo.
On the "showing commitment" thing, this is a fairly standard bit of emotional blackmail used by men to get what they want.
You could, and should, argue that he is showing poor emotional commitment to you, by demanding somethng which he knows is not on offer rather than pay his fair share.
bear in mind that before he gets your agreement to move in, he is on his best behaviour. Once he is in, he will not improve.
I think the current set up works, personally and don't see the point in changing it for now.
So don't change it. Simples.
I wouldn't let him move in. You and your dc would be giving up too much.
And if he's away 4 nights a week anyway and staying with you at weekends, that won't change much if he 'moves in'. So I'd definitely leave things as they are. If he doesn't like it, then I'd say bye bye.
Cocklodger. For sure.
And if you make more babies with this man, I expect they'll all be going into full time childcare too? As that's his parenting norm?
When does he see his own children? I suppose your house is to become a base for contact too? (not that I think that's a bad thing for the other children, it sounds like you'd be a welcome piece of stability in their lives, but is that what you want?).
You've been with this man for 2 yrs and you have a 2yo child. Have you dated in this time with him? Do you go out, have fun, see films? Or is it a case that he is free to do what he wants through the week (which won't change) then he comes home to mum (who does his washing) then to you for a couple of nights (for home cooking and sex).
Cock. Lodger. Run.
Don't do it.
You are right it would be to the detriment of your children. It sounds like you want very different things from family life, you placing more emphasis on time with your dcs and him on earning and putting kids in childcare.
Does he realise how much childcare costs by the way!?!
When he is staying with you or his mother is he contributing to food, bills, etc?? Does he pay csa for his children? Does he regularly and reliably see his children?
I know somebody in a similar situation. I think she now realises that she really should have sat down and sorted this out clearly before moving in together.
Surely if you move together then your income becomes pooled like any family (not necessary if you are absolutely both loaded but in normal circumstances it takes two incomes to cover bills etc in the UK at the moment). Once the pooled money is there then surely it goes on anything that needs it, including your children. It would not be you supporting your children while he contributes to shopping, electric but not new football boots or childcare (as in friends case!). Any money left at end of month would be for treats etc.
To support the lifestyle you jointly aspire to, you decide jointly what income is required. If you do not want to work full time (and fully understand where you are coming from) then don't, and make it clear from word go that you are part time at home and therefore he will be contributing the bulk of the families income to be spent on the family as required, before you commit.
He has to face facts that things may change and you may not want to work at all at some point, and again that would be a joint decision but he would have to open to it.
IMO moving in together means committing to supporting the whole family including any step children, absent children etc. Both adults have to commit fully but with an understanding of what limits there are such at the beginning such as your wish to be at home outside of school hours.
Spidey senses tingling all over this board. Don't do it OP. You have nothing to gain from this if you're happy with the way things are - and lots to lose. Give it some more time.
If he reacts badly to needing more time - there's your answer.
The fact he doesn't have a place of his own is a huge flashing red light.
He is a taker. At present he has work paying for his accommodation 4/5 nights a week, and then scrounges off others for the rest of the week.
HE wants to change this to dossing at your house every weekend and storing his stuff there - for free. Even though this will cost you a lot of money.
I would present him with a spread sheet showing how much money you will lose by him moving in, and ask him how he is going to make it up. Him moving in is a huge financial sacrifice for you. How much will he sacrifice?
Agree with everything Dahlen says.
Also think that HE's the one not showing the commitment (basically for the reasons given by Dahlen)
His perception that your loss of benefits can be made up for by working full time, not by him contributing a greater amount to the household - i.e a very significant portion of his income is outrageous.
Also, if he works away 5 nights a week, and often spends the other nights / days with you, then you have been subsidising him big time - by saving him from having to get his own place.
He sounds very self-entitled.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Agree with Daglen also.
OP you have the ideals you have because you have I assume thought long and hard about what is important to you and your family.
He is trying to ride rough shod over all of that.
His perception that your loss of benefits can be made up for by working full time, not by him contributing a greater amount to the household - i.e a very significant portion of his income is outrageous.
I'd kind of missed this point, which is excellent and bears repeating. You'll lose money when he moves in. So you have to make up the shortfall, not him? Bonkers.
can I say cocklodger again? OK, fine. Manchild
You've had great advice on this thread.
Short answer: him moving in has everything going for him and less than nothing going for you. Especially since he won't even BE there most evenings!
Don't let him move in, not only because of this, but because from what you've said about him I hope you continue to view him with suspicion for a long time to come. He doesn't sound a keeper.
He wants you to stuff your kids into care. He wants you to work full time and expects you to earn X. He wants you to have children together.
When you have had these children what happens? You go back to work full time earning X and paying even more childcare? Does he contribute? What happens while you are on maternity leave and not earning? Do your DC go with out does he contribute more then?
Will he be getting up 50% of nights because you are both working full time or will you be doing them all because you only earn X and he earns 3 x X?
Would I be right in guessing you are pretty much debt free because you manage your money? How much does he contribute when he stays over now?
He is paying off his debts, hopefully paying a decent sum for his other children while living rent free in hotels or at yours...
I think him moving in would be a big mistake.
Only move in, if you feel you love him so much you would marry him (even if you are not the marrying type)
Not saying you ought to get married! Living together is fine, but if you feel you love him and want to share everything with him (would look after him if he were sick, for better for worse etc. ) ....then, and ONLY THEN is it a good idea to move in together.
There is too much at stake here, with the kids involved.
YOU WOULD BE INSANE TO LET HIM MOVE IN
I agree that moving in together gets so much more complicated when you have children already, and the rules around tax credits/benefits makes things much harder as you're forced to pool resources. It took me five years and a wedding before I finally moved in with DH, because I needed to feel secure enough for both me and DD. Two years is fine for two single people moving in together and contributing halves towards bills, but I don't think it's long enough when there are so many other children involved. He does seem to be pushing this for his own benefit, and you should definitely put your own children first, even if that means bringing this relationship to an end.
DH has no expectations for me to work as I'm studying, has taken on full financial responsibility for my DD (as her own dad doesn't contribute) and we no longer get any help from govt as he is over the CB threshold. But we discussed all of this before we got married and moved in (to a house he paid for but put me on the deeds as well). I'm unlikely to work immediately after I graduate as there are some voluntary projects I'd like to be involved in, DH is absolutely behind this. There are men out there who are generous and open and you don't have to settle for ones who simply put their own interests first. It's good for your children to see you in a settled relationship and to have a male figure around, but you shouldn't feel that you need to rush into cohabiting and having more children with this man unless it's best for you and your dc.
I feel him moving in will be at the detriment to my children
There's your answer. Don't do it. Children should come before men.
YANBU. Don't let him move in. It'll make you all thoroughly miserable.
I came back on here to post but can only refer you to Hullygully's 14.09 post. There is nothing more to add.
Don't let him move in. The financial situation is reason enough, but TBH there are red flags all over this guy. Great big red flags that could be used to signal in semaphore to a hilltop half a mile away. Nothing to be lost by waiting for a year or so without his moving in and see where things go.
OP - If DP can move in with you in a way that isn't reducing the quality of life for your DCs, then do that, but be quite clear, you working fulltime rather than part time in order to make up the short fall in your benefits being reduced means that financially your DCs lives will be exactly the same, but have less time with their mum, this is reducing the quality of their life overall.
If you working full time meant that you would have more money so they could have more material things/better family security, then that might off-set the downside of them getting less 'mum time', but this isn't the case, financially there will be no change for them, the only upside to you working full time will be that you get your boyfriend to move in, that's an upside to you and him, not to your DCs. They will just see the quality of their life reduce in order to improve your boyfriend's.
You have to decide, who's quality of life is the priority, you DCs or your DPs?
Now, if he can find a way to move in that doesn't reduce your DC's quality of life (as in, he makes up the shortfall in the benefits you receive and pays the difference in the costs), then that might work out, but he doesn't seem to want too.
Oh, and my mum's best friend 'dated' her 'boyfriend' for over 10 years before he moved in with her, they both had DCs who were different ages with different needs and it wasn't possible to blend the two families without massive compromises, they took the very grown up decision to just date and not live together until they were at a stage when his DCs had grown up and left home and her DCs had reached teenage years. Not ideal for my mum's friend or her DP, but best for their DCs. They are still together another 20 years later, so waiting didn't stop them being long term commitment. If your DP loves you, he'll accept that living together isn't practical until your youngest has got to 7, or unless he hands over the bulk of his income.
Another one saying PLEASE DON'T MOVE IN WITH HIM *OP!
There's your answer. Don't do it. Children should come before men. <<THIS
Op...Please re read your initial post and your replies afterwards....you already know the right answer and in varying degrees virtually everone is of a similar opinion. Your gut instinct isn't wrong. ..as supported here. Good luck.
I think he sees your children as in the way, or rather, in his way. His attitude is just-'Oh, put them in full-time childcare'. That's worrying. I fear if he did move in you might find him less pleasant to them and less popular with them fairly quickly.
But yes, like everyone else he seems to me to be offering very little (not just financially) and asking a lot (not just financially).
actually you will find that as the chidlren reach seven eight upnto say fourteen they really want you around a lot more so part time or 80 per cent contract is ideal.
the younger they are the easier it is to ahve them in full time childcare - as they get older they really want and need you around more after school. or at least on couple days after school if feasible so shiift type work or flexible working is ideal
ps dont have him move in. dont sign him onto your mortgage. keep your life and dc life going with stability
Why would you even countenance this?
How has he got debt if he doesn't have his own place and earns 38k? Are they large debts?
I agree with the others, don't let him move in
Don't do it! He sounds horribly tight fisted for a start.
When my dp moved in he was unemployed for 6 months so I supported him. Now he has a decent job and he does most of the supporting (financially) as I only work part time at the moment. He has taken on my kids as part of the package.
Anyone piling that kind of pressure on you is not a good thing in your life.
You have a fundamental differences of opinion on work/homelife/money and the best way to raise children ... and you want to marry and have children with this man ??
I think I would have got 'rid' of someone who told me what to do with my own life and children tbh
you are an independent woman with hopes and aspirations, there is nothing wrong with that. i really wouldn't let him move in
god that's never a good start
You obviously don't want him to move in so I'm not sure what the point of the discussion is? I can't see why you would do this at all.
Don't let him move in. I think he sounds very controlling - and he'll only have more control over you once you share a house. Go and find someone more suited to you - you seem intelligent and hardworking - you can find a much better man than him!
An AIBU thread where everyone agrees?
Even DH has shaken his head when I read out the OP. Your 'D'P doesn't sound very partner-ish. He should enhance your family not be detrimental, and it does sound like you have it right in the question.
You don't need him to move in. You have a great plan for you and your DC. I've always felt that anyone giving ultimatums or dictating your behaviour should be told to sod off.
tell him to sod off
how north of watford (love it )
Oh god no. Avoid this at all costs. Since he works away so much, you can still have essentially the same relationship with him not living with you.
Why would you want him to move in - really? It sounds like you already HAVE the situation you want and are happy with. Him moving in will improve your life and your DC's lives not one iota - in fact it will mean massive changes that neither you and nor they want. And all for what? If he works away during the week you'll see him exactly the same amount as you do now. I see massive resentment building up between the two of you if you do this and your DC may like him now, but they won't if they never get to see their mum and get stuck in nursery FT on his say-so.
Put your DC first (and yourself, for that matter).
Do not move him in!!!
You won't see him during the week anyway so I don't see the benefit? Not in terms if quality time and not financially.
He can continue visiting you at the weekends.
If you move him in you WILL be prioritising the wants of an unrelated adult man over the happiness of your DCs.
He does pay for his children and sees them monthly.
He keeps talking about how in a couple of years we will earn £65k between us but even if I were working full time most of my salary would be spent on childcare. He stays in hotels as they are paid for by his company. He could have more flexibility to come home if we lived together but this wouldn't be until at least 7/8pm so he'd still be no help with the kids, he'd wake them by cooking and I'd have to do work at home so wouldn't get to spend any more time with him. Though he would get more sex, which seems to be the main reason he wants to move in sometimes.
He sounds like a bellend to me - money obsessed. I'd dump him, focus on your children.
He isn't as bad as this all sounds; I wouldn't have let my children meet him otherwise. I just think he's deluded; at the moment I buy nice food, we have weekends away, takeaways etc. If I worked full time we would have to be more frugal because of childcare expenses and I'd actually have much less time for him as well as the children. He massively underestimates how much I subsidise him and how much children cost, not to mention overestimating the likelihood of me finding a local well paid job. I am debt free and much better with money than him so he's said he's happy for me to be in charge of the finances. However, my exH said the very same yet used to query any spend over £3!! So naturally I'm wary.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
It makes me sad that so many women are happy to settle for men like this even with so many people practically screaming NO DON'T DO IT.
OP the more you write, the even MORE obvious (if that was possible) answer is don't move in with him.
Run! Run like the wind!
He is on his best behaviour and will only get worse. Please!
I clicked your link thinking there was a joke or something, I was looking at the screen patiently thinking it was loading as there were only red flags. ........ oh I get it! Red flags!
No, don't do it. You have little to gain and everything to lose by him moving in. Your children gain nothing and lose everything. You have your life nicely set up now to do the best by your children. Stick with it.
I would be very wary indeed of this man.
This is MN and flags are déclassé so I thought naice bunting would be more appropriate.
Hope the message gets through whatever. This man is bad news.
I would him down and say you don't want to move in with him. Tell him you've thought about it and you will be much worse off financially and do not want the pressure of working full time (you haven't retrained to be a teacher, have you?) as you intend to be there for them.
Nothing in this package seems to be for you?
"He massively underestimates how much I subsidise him and how much children cost."
This is why he shouldn't move in.
You and your children would gain nothing. He would get more sex on tap, and you to do his washing.
What would he give to move in?
So how many people giving you an objective opinion as disinterested outsiders will it take?
There is nothing in this change of relationship of benefit for your children or you, and he is building his fantasies without foundations about how much you will earn and what your future life will be like.
If you allow him to move in with you, you are gambling an enormous amount for no discernable reason, and I'd be less worried if you were childless.
But you are risking your children's stability as well as your own.
Please, if you must have him, keep him as a non-resident shag.
Yes, red flags all over.
Does he even contribute anything for the food he eats at yours or to compensate the extra gas and electricity for his stay at yours? Who does the cooking and the laundry?
Personally, I'd be LTB, but in any case don't let him move in.
Wait, where does his mail go to? Work or yours?
Where is hi registered address?
You will massively regret it if you do and he does not sound worth the risk
Come on, OP.
You know what to do here.
Don't sacrifice your children's best interests for some cocklodging bellend.
2 years is not a long time when you have DC. Moving in is basically the same level of commitment as marriage. If he does not consider the financial needs of the family to be as much his responsibility as yours (ie, he considers it more your responsibility) then he is not ready to make that step. Your relationship is not ready for it. You say he underestimates money too - there's no way you should move in before you have discussed this and he is in full understanding of the situation and you have come to an agreement you are both happy with.
I also agree with others there are some red flags too - the sex thing is ringing klaxons for me!
Please do not sacrifice your plans for him. If he is right for you then his plans will fit around yours - you shouldn't have to significantly change for no benefit/good reason.
I'll never understand people who come to believe the best they can do is a cocklodging taunt like this, and especially subject their kids to it.
There is more than one way to have a relationship. The OP says that she loves the guy, we shouldn't lose sight of this.
He wants a traditional set up with full personal services, a free house and most of not all of her money. It is not hard to see it from his point of view.
Assuming the OP does love the guy and doesn't want to lose him, a straight refusal is going to be hard to do. I would hang it strongly on the going back to work issue. Explain that you cannot and will not compromise on this, and he has always known this. If he is not happy to support you for the next five years, you will carry on as, with the state supporting you instead and him living elsewhere. In that case you will try to make some special times free for you two as a couple.
If he says he is happy, but you dont really believe him, make it clear that the move in is on a trial basis, and save up enough cash to cover the gap if you have to chuck him out after a bit and go back to your original set-up.
He wants a traditional set up with full personal services, a free house and most of not all of her money. It is not hard to see it from his point of view.
Well, perhaps not, but I would not want a relationship with somebody who wanted this. This is not a description of a partnership. OP should be cautious about making sure that they both have the same expectations and desires about the relationship, rather than both wanting to move in together but for totally different reasons.
God, just don't do it! If you want to work p/t and be with your children and can afford to, do it. If you work full time because he tells you to, you will hate it and your kids will hate you being miserable. He is behaving like an arse and you need to tell him.
yoni I agree- I was being sarcastic there!
Wow - he sees his kids monthly!
what's to stop him moving hundreds of miles away if you break up and have kids? would you be happy your kids got a monthly visit?? or 2/3 etc? I wouldn't.
So his barometer of being a good dad is seeing children monthly, which is why he sees no issue of you being a good parent by putting your children into full time childcare.
He no doubt spends time with you to the detriment of his children. Children come second. He's telling you this in actions and words. But these are not your values. He is unlikely to change his view. You are unlikely to change yours. How do you move forward from this?
His barometer of being a good boyfriend is to only come to your place and sleep in only your bed and eat food you have provided and probably cooked if not a takeaway? Nothing reciprocal because he has no home. Is his view of being a live-in partner the same? Do you want someone to clean up after, pay for, concede values to?
I'm not surprised his only argument is if you loved me you'd let me do all this! The argument of a person you'd want in your life would be what he could bring to it not how you could change to accommodate him!
He wants to move in. It's your house, you can say no!
You have a good set up already. Why would you drop that? He needs to fit in with your family and make a positive contribution, if he wants to share in your family life.
It sounds as though his motivation is money and sex and that he will badger and bully you to get his way about both, to the detriment of your family life and career.
You say, quite rightly, that you have been subsidising him significantly by having him stay with you at weekends so he doesn't need his own accommodation, and this has allowed him to pay off his debts. Does he describe it in this way, unprompted and to others? Does he openly acknowledge your massive contribution to his financial good health?
If not, he won't acknowledge your subsidising him or putting yourself and your DCs out for him in any way, ever. He will deceive himself, bully you and lie to others.
He massively underestimates how much I subsidise him
I'm afraid I rather doubt that.
He's been living in a hotel for a long time? I guess he's gotten used to maid service, then.
I know I'm making him sound horrible and you know that he isn't. I'm not saying he is a horrible person. What he is, is a case study of the fact that meanness with money is a massively unattractive characteristic, with massive, pervasive implications.
PLease do not let him move him, not when you have such differing views! As a comparison for you my mum has recently gotten married and her husband moved in with her and my brother, my mum was getting circa £800 a month tax credits because of her low income and some other factors. With her husband moving in she gets nothing now, its irrelevant, their finances are pooled and in fact she's reduced her hours more since they got married as she was working evenings and he was working days so they got such little time together it made more sense.
What your 'D'P is proposing is proposterous and will be to the detriment of your children. The only one benefitting is him and it seems the main benefit he's interested in is sex???? agree with others cocklodger
You're not wary ENOUGH, by the sound of it. You have a decent set up with your DC at the moment; yet he thinks as soon as he moves in he gets to dictate to you what YOU should do??
Fuck that for a game of soldiers.
Let me ask a question that I haven't seen answered yet - do you own your own house? Are you paying the mortgage on it? Would you expect that he would contribute to that mortgage if so? Would he expect that you are going to get married very quickly so that he could benefit from your house should you then split up?
I would direct you to the threads in Relationships by Waves and Smiles except that the earlier threads weren't in there and have since vanished - she met a bloke who seemed great, moved into her house, got married (after a year of knowing her), was keen to start a family with her, blah blah - and then when she got pg, started changing his mind and showing his true colours. Researched 2nd trimester abortions for her, to start with; wouldn't help her out while she had HG, allowed his own 2 DC to run riot in the house so she wasn't able to rest etc.
I'm not saying that's exactly how things would pan out for you, but in reality, I would see his demands on you getting a job as a massive red flag to start with.
So YANBU to think that him moving in could be detrimental to your DC - almost certainly is the answer. Do what is right for your DC first, then you; worry about him last.
thumb the OP referred to helping with the rent and getting HB so I am guessing, house not owned.
Ah yes, sorry. [dim]
I started reading the thread a while ago, then went and did dinner, then came back to it so I'd forgotten.
I would tell him that you are planning to continue as you are for x years and he can decide what to do in terms if moving in or not.
I'd never move in with anyone until you've had a major disagreement about something in which you both approach a problem with completely opposing viewpoints. Unless you can resolve that thorny issue to the satisfaction of both parties, you should split up.
Some people end up living together before that happens and it weakens their position because it's a lot harder to stick to your principles and walk away once you have shared living space, a mortgage, DC, etc. Once you've established a precedent for dealing with difficult issues and your draw your own line in the sand, however, it tends to influence how other disagreements are resolved in the future. Hence that first one being so, so important.
What you do now will influence the rest of your relationship.
Thanks for your responses. I guess the root of all this is that I don't feel that it's me subsidising him properly - because I get some housing benefit towards our house etc I don't feel as though its 'my' money if that makes any sense. I don't do his laundry but do cook for him and pay for food for us all. I spoke to him yesterday about how much evening and weekend work I'd have if I was working full time and how much I'd hate the youngest dc being in nursery full time. He's suggested childminding, which I've thought about before and am going to look into more. Whatever happens I won't be compromising the dcs happiness or our relationship though. If he won't wait for me then so be it.
I know this sounds silly and got my legal hat on (I work for a solicitors).
It can be bloody hard to get someone out of a property where they share with you. There's another thread here where a poster can't get her boyfriend to move out even though he has another house and their relationship is over.
I'd have it on more equal footing IIWY.
He's still suggesting you make up for the shortfall he's going to create...
See the red there?
I do but don't think it's that simple; he is very career minded and always has been. He loves his job and has never had to compromise because of children. I think he sees that I have potential (I.e am intelligent) and sees me being at home with the kids as a bit of a waste/shame for me.
The problem is that he is imposing conditions on his moving in.
You should be imposing those conditions.
I think he sees that I have potential (I.e am intelligent) and sees me being at home with the kids as a bit of a waste/shame for me.
It is ok for him to think that. It is not ok for him to try and pressurise you into changing your lifestyle to suit his ideas. You should be making it clear to him that bringing up children is not a waste/shame.
Unfortunately though, a lot of people feel that it's a waste. But I'm only 26 so I feel I have plenty of time to build my career.
Read the thread.
Read the flags.
You subsidise him? He's never had to compromise? How shit is that?
has never had to compromise because of children
That's a red flag too. A parent who has never compromised because of children? Very much reason to be careful. Doesn't sound as though he gives his own children very much of himself. Would he be any different with yours, or with a child you had together?
Exactly and, by pushing you into 'any job' he could set your career back.
He has values and priorities, you have values and priorities. He does not get to steamroller yours for his benefit. That he wants to is a massive concern.
It sounds as though he's never had to compromise a single man's lifestyle for anyone and hasn't even thought about why he should or what on promise might look like.
Slow down, assert your values, priorities and boundaries. Let him work out how he can fit himself into your life, one step at a time.
'What compromise might look like'.
Also he may say he thinks you're intelligent but I bet he thinks he is more so, because he thinks you and your values are wrong and you should be more like him.
26? Oh don't saddle yourself with this and waste years! You've a mature head on you, listen to it.
You have to do what's right for your kids and your family. You know them best, if being at home more is whats best. Then its non negotiable, he should not be dictating otherwise. There's plenty of time, I'd ensure when you finish your degree you keep a toe in so you will hopefully be able to walk into a job when you feel it's right. But it's when YOU feel it's right
Btw my little one has started school, so far we have 10 + mins of reading a night and have had 2 weekend projects taking upto 3/4 hrs.
Now its not alot as such but between that there's sleep (needs alot and early nights) cooking (can't be left to do homework on his own obviously) clearing up from cooking, bath etc etc. if your out long hours you need to bare that in mind too.
I think he sees that I have potential (I.e am intelligent) and sees me being at home with the kids as a bit of a waste/shame for me.
Long term I think that you would feel that too. I think you are absolutely right to build your own career and reduce the family's need for benefits. But I also think that your timing is perfectly fair and reasonable, and waiting a while before going FT makes perfect sense.
Just dont take any old crap job just because it is FT. Choose a job that builds your career and is right for you. It may turn out to have slightly more hours than you might choose, and if so you might need to rethink your preference for PT. But you need a better reason than a general preference for FT over PT.
He's moving in to get more sex according to you
Gosh, what a keeper.
Big fat NO.
26 and 3 DCs. Please don't burden yourself with this person. That's the person that you, with 3DCs, are subsidising. FFS.
Apologies if I've missed DP's stellar attributes, but he'd have to have the cock from heaven to excuse this. Even then.
You asked for opinion and you've pretty much received a universal NO.
The more you post about him the worse he sounds, but you carry on defending him and seem to justify the moving in. You haven't posted one reason why it would be a good idea or what benefit you and your children would get from it (you know, like a loving, committed family situation).
Do your children actually like him? Cos from what you've said, they can't have seen much of him)
Choose a job that builds your career and is right for you
Remember this. Competition for jobs is fierce. The more experience you have in the job for your career the better.
You don't need his permission, nor agreement, to not move into your home. It's okay to set firm boundaries.
Nanny0gg has it. Your OP damns him, and nothing you've posted later mitigates this.
Knob end. Bin.
Yes they do like him a lot. He gets a lot of annual leave and has spent a lot of time with them.
why are you even thinking about doing this
Maybe it would help you to list out (not necessarily on the thread) what this man is offering. By which I mean, concrete contributions to family life that he said said he will make.
I don't think financial contributions are the be all and end all. But generally in a loving relationship with long-term commitment, each person wants to give to the other and to feel that they are contributing in some valuable way to the whole enterprise. What is he saying he will give? Is it enough for you?
I do hope it's not teaching you're considering. As a teacher with 3+ children, I can thoroughly NOT recommend doing it full time, unless you want to, obviously!
It's not for him to decide what you should be doing with your education. I see so many red warning flags here, it's frightening.
If you worry that he's going to try to pressure you into this, turn the tables on him and tell him that he needs to make commitments to you as well as expecting you to do x, y, z.
I'd concentrate on his debt. Delay the discussion about moving in until he's cleared his debts. As he currently has no living expenses he should be able to do that quite quickly. He will actually take longer to do this if he's living with you because he will have to contribute half of your rent, council tax and utility bills.
It's hard for him to defend that position without letting it slip that it's because he intends you to subsidise him. And you would be subsidising him because it would be coming out of your earned money at that point, since you would lose your HB etc once he moves in.
Oh, and that potential subsidising him would be on top the the subsidising of him that you're already doing now.
While he earns 38K.
read this again: I think he sees that I have potential (I.e am intelligent) and sees me being at home with the kids as a bit of a waste/shame for me. and also read you said: He's suggested childminding - so it's a waste of your time to be at home with DCs, unless those DCs are someone elses? You could be great at developing children, just not your own, because that's a waste.
Still he's thinking of ways you can make up the shortfall caused by him moving in. Your life has to get harder with less time for your DCs (childminding meaning you have other DCs to spilt your time with even if you are at home), so he can live with you, but he doesn't have to give up anything in order to move in with you.
why does he need to move in anyway? You are seeing each other regularly and both have nice lives. if you can't "move forward" without compromises you don't want to make, what is wrong with staying as things are until you are ready to make those changes?
Does he (on his £38k) give you (a student) any money towards the food he's eating now?
Who does his washing?
He'd better be brilliant in the sack!
dairylea you are clearly intelligent and hardworking and love your children. you are only 26... dont saddle yourself with this IDIOT! (and I think that is putting it nicely; others have said worse).
YOU and the CHILDREN are the priorities here, not him thinking he can waltz in and change everything to suit himself.
as I said a few pages ago, PLEASE dont do this...
So you want your DP to move in then support you.
If you don't want it, don't do it. As a main wage earner I wouldn't want to move in with someone who expected me to support them financially.
He gets a lot of annual leave and has spent a lot of time with them.
But not his own children, just the children of the woman he wants more sex from.
He has never had to compromise because of children
DESPITE HAVING HIS OWN!
Sorry for caps. Do what you like, but please don't bring any more children in to the world for this cocklodger to ignore when it all goes tits up.
Glad they like him.
However, you still haven't really responded to the overwhelming NO! that most (all?) posters have said...
You're going to do it, aren't you?
No Nanny, like I said up thread - if the only way for him to move in is me to work full time then I'd rather he didn't and will tell him so. If he can't compromise or wait then so be it. Keema - precisely, I wouldn't want to either. His contact is court ordered so he can't spend more time with his own children than he already does.
OP hasn't responded to the general thrust of the thread at all.
well, thats because everyone is saying LTB and she doesnt think thats fair. She is responding to the idea of making her priorities clear and standing her ground.
Dairylea - if you say he can't move in because you don't wish to work full time immediately on any old job, what do you think his response will be?
No, OP is being v selective about which bits she answers.
He can't move in unless you say he can-this is the last actual bit of power you have. What does he say when you tell that that if he moves in, your benefits will stop. Unless he gives you money then you will have to work full time which you are not prepared to do. Just say you are happy as you are or you are going to be losing out.
What does he reply when you say that is what's happening? Or don't you say that?
if he is in hotels 4/5 nights a week, what is the actual point of him moving in except to make you and the children financially worse off and dependant on him
if he is in hotels 4/5 nights a week, what is the actual point of him moving in except to make you and the children financially worse off and dependant on him
I think OP has probably got the point by now, to be fair... I don't think there's been one voice saying 'do it!' which must be an AIBU first.
I don't foresee this working out well. Let's say you walk in to a full-time job, that is relevant to your degree in April, and things are fine financially.
So you'll be a harried single parent of three, working full-time, and he'll turn up each weekend
for sex and home cooking to play happy families, right? He'll come from a week of being a bachelor in hotels, to family life, and he will be utterly unable to sympathise with your week. A situation like that would test the sensitivity and forgiveness of saints. Your guy does not sound saintly: he seems like a more than averagely judgmental human being.
Given his past comments, I wouldn't be surprised if he started having a go about you not having done enough housework during your week.
You meanwhile, will know that you are in your time-poor situation as a direct result of following his instructions and that you are subsidising him. You will come to resent him.
When does he actually see his children?
For a weekend once per month at his mums who lives near them.
Red locks - I have told him the realities but he underestimates the cost of childcare and the cost of living. He's lived as he is for three years so is out of touch. All he pays for is his debts out of his salary, he hasn't paid to run a household since separating from his wife.
Another one saying don't!
You'll lose and he'll gain, leave things how they are ... You can see why he's keen but there's nothing in this for you and your kids at all.
I think he needs to live in a flat on his own to appreciate exactly what he's asking of you before he has anywhere near the right to comment on what you should do with your life, how much you should earn, and how much you should spend.
If you have told him the realities he is actively choosing to ignore this information.
If you tell someone what things cost based on your experience then the normal reaction is to think that that's how much things cost. You don't have to experience it for yourself!
Why did his relationship with his children's mother break down?
His contact is court ordered so he can't spend more time with his own children than he already does.
And you should ask yourself why...
As well as why he has debts.
Why hasn't he got a place of his own so his kids can visit the more usual every other weekend?
So, is he happy only seeing them one weekend a month? If so, you should not have children with this man, quite apart from the fact you have diametrically opposed ideas on parenting.
Or is it that his ex-wife would rather bring them up all on her own than trust him with them? I know people like to talk about manipulative ex-wives and contact, but it's always seemed to me that in reality, single parents are desperate for a break and for their ex to pull their finger out and contribute. Blocking contact originates in a personal conviction that the other parent isn't adequate. This conviction may or may not be fair.
Not always true, sure, but far more common than "bitch just does it because she wants to hurt me".
I notice you said he's only paying "debts" out of his salary. What about maintainance?
"but he underestimates the cost of childcare and the cost of living"
It's an interesting thing, that. In a totally different situation, my DH has done similar - when we moved out to Australia, I kept my house in the UK (DH is Aussie) and rent it out. It brings in a reasonable amount, but all DH could see is how much rent I was getting for it, and he then projected from that amount that I would be able to pay for my own flights back to the UK from that money.
It somehow failed to occur to him that, out of that rental income, I would still be paying my mortgage, life insurance/endowment policy, house insurance, management fees, maintenance (and a few other things like a pension fund). In fact, I barely make any money a month at all, and if there is a big cost on the house, then I lose money. BUT he didn't "see" any of that - just the amount coming in and he assumed I would have that as cash in the bank.
A friend of mine's exP has a court order that only allows him to see his two DC for one weekend a month. Frankly, it was not a pretty situation that led to this and while my friend's exP complains to others that the mother of his DC is cruel and wants to keep him from his DC, the reality is that he is a dangerous and inadequate man who the courts thought fit to keep at bay.
And why isn't your DP contributing to the household of his exW?
It really sounds as if he is a man with little sense of financial or other responsibilities towards his partner and any children of the family..
He has run up debts. He has no assets. He lives in hotels, served by maids to keep his room clean, and waiters to serve his food. Towels appear magically at some point in the day.
Does he bring laundry to your place when he pops by for sex? Or does he bring it to his mum? Or maybe he uses the hotels laundry service to save the wimminfolk in his life some extra duties?
He wants to move in with you, as otherwise you are not showing commitment.
He will contribute to bills. But, you need to find any old full time job that pays at least £1000 per month (I take it after tax naturally) asap, not even take your time build your career or find your dream job.
Your child care fees with increase due to working full time, at the same time as your tax credits (and child benefit?) goes down because he moves in?
Tell me again, how is he thinking about your welfare in all this?
And for goodness sake, dont marry this man, and dont get pregnant!!!!
Exactly how would it benefit you that he moved in?
Cuddles/someone to talk to in the evenings (no, he works away)
Help with running the house (unlikely, at the weekends)
Help with rent (?!)
I'd be putting together a 'bill' showing him what his portion of rent, council tax, utilities, food, insurance etc would amount to. Then add in all the benefits you'd lose by his being there. That adds up to the minimum he needs to pay.
Most of all though, I'm just really concerned at his attitude towards you - he knows what is good for you better than you do - and your self-doubt so willingness to bend to that, or feel you're being unfair, or need to justify yourself, for not doing so.
Please stand your own ground and let him find a way to come to you.
All this "ooh he just doesn't see how much things cost" bollocks.
Love, show him. Sit down with an excel spreadsheet. Show him what you currently pay for everything. Show him how much of it he will be responsible for when he moves in with you. It is impossible to argue with black and white figure in front of your eyes.
On £38k he will have a handsome salary. From that salary he currently pays very little out on living costs. He has ENORMOUS amounts of disposable income (and also enormous amounts of debt ). He won't have that same money when you live together, because quite rightly you'll be sharing costs.
If you want to stay with him lay some conditions out of your own: You won't even consider discussing it again until he is debt free and has remained so for 12 months. By this point the employment aspect will be moot because you'll be doing what you want work-wise, but just in case, make clear that your employment choices will not be dictated by him. If you are to live together as a family you behave as a family and that includes splitting all costs for the family in the way you both decide works best. And such splitting of costs will include his child maintenance payments, plus all childcare costs for the family he is asking to move in with.
You also need to have a discussion on how you would raise the children together, how you would discipline the children together, how you would save for children's future's together, how you would plan your lives around your employment (would he expect his career to come before yours, for example? What if one of you wants to change career/go back to uni/go part time?), what your priorities in life in general are. I don't see that you've done any of that. Well, I see that they've sort of come up, and they show you have wildly different priorities, and yet for some reason you're both ignoring this.
Don't tie yourself down to someone who wants to change you while not changing anything themselves.
In the meantime, start charging him for food and other expenses, if he wants to stay at yours and eat there, doing laundry as well?
I.e. expect him to bring in a weekly shopping occasionally. Say, once a month? Work out what you think is fair.
I don't believe the courts are perfect. Far from it. They're staffed by human beings after all. But court errors through the eras aren't entirely random, and this divorce is only three years old, and the UK started moving towards a presumption of shared care unless evidence indicated otherwise ages ago.
The fact that the woman convinced a (hopefully!) objective and experienced family court judge that only one weekend a month was in the children's best interest, and after three years she still won't allow more contact, should be treated as circumstantial evidence.
You can't and shouldn't convict people solely on it, either literally or metaphorically, but it does colour in the picture that you drew, Dairylea when you told us what he's been asking you to do. No, not asking. Telling.
has never had to compromise because of children right...
So his wife did do all the nights, childcare, school runs, cooking, cleaning, sick etc Which he will expect you to do without compromising his life if you have kids. Oh as well as the full time job he expects you to have. No wonder he is happy to have them!
You really would be stupid to do this.
For 3 years he has had room service except perhaps for a bit at w/es with you. Yes, he's out of touch. I think your safest course, the one most likely to produce a happy outcome, is for him to move into a rented flat after Xmas, and to look after himself and his children once a month. Then he will gain i sght into how much things cost, how much time things take, how to do housework regularly and so on.
Once he's looked after himself for a while - personally I'd say a couple of years, but you'll know better than I - then he may become a useful addition to your family.
Also, after another few years, you will be in a better position career wise too, and won't need to be told by him to work ft/pt, or any of the other things he's assuming you'll do after graduation.
So you'll be a harried single parent of three
And he wants MORE DC too - don't forget. They've already got five between them and he's expecting her to work FT and produce more DC and look after them all Mon-Fri. OP, please listen to all the advice here. You sound very realistic, but torn because presumably you love this person, but really, YOU WILL GAIN NOTHING FROM HIM MOVING IN. Quite the opposite - you and your DC have a lot to lose. That, for me, would be enough to just say no.
Really good advice from StuntGirl
I'm a single parent of three primary aged children my child are bill for just before and after school care is a massive £200.00 a week that's 8-9 and 15.30-17.30. Even with a job earning £1000 pounds a month unless he pays virtually all the bills you will just suffer financially.Thats just the child are never mind that I think he is an arse who will Probobly make your life worse once his feet are under the table.You are soo young why settle. I can't believe that with one breath he thinks your wasted at home but wants you to be a childminder to earn extra money to make his life better.Really what do you gain from this relationship.Please tell me one thing that he brings to your family that will benefit you or the children.
So we sat down and discussed it all last night. Full time childcare here for youngest 2 plus before and after school club for eldest totals £105 per day. That's way over what I could possibly earn per month living where we live. We can't move because of his job, he wants more dc and so do I and he's agreed to let me budget from his salary to ensure we can live on it until all the children are older. However, even with just my 3 all at school it's £60 per day for before/after school care so unless childminding is doable then it's not financially viable for me to work. He said he sees us as a family and wants to support us. He wanted me to fulfil my career potential but understands the kids are priority and career can wait. He does want more contact with his children but their mother is resistant as she has a new partner whom she is instilling in them is their daddy and has made it clear she will move if he tries to get more - something she can easily do as her partner is in the army.
That sounds better.
However, what does it mean to budget from his salary?
And has he realised that he's costing you money right now?
We will be moving into a different house as this one is expensive. We've worked out how much rent and bills will cost then what's left for saving and spending. His debts will be paid off by the time we move in then his credit rating will have the time I'm not working to recover so hopefully we can get a mortgage once I am. Yes he appreciates that I'm doing and paying for everything alone and that if we have dc i will mostly be doing it alone so he sees working and providing as his role.
How many DC do you have between you already?
I will no doubt be flamed to high heaven for this, but isn't 5 mouths to feed enough already? You are a family of 7. The world is crowded enough, surely?
Dairylea why are you uprooting your settled life for this man? if he loves you he will wait until YOU are happy to do all these things. You are only 26 - you dont have to have any more children for 10 years if you dont want to.
5 children between you already... isnt that enough, for now at least? they dont get any cheaper as they get any bigger you know.
I'm sorry, I still dont think its a good move. sounds to me like he's saying what you want to hear.
Indeed, WilsonFrickett. And blended families are hard enough to manage without there being huge numbers of DC to contend with. The more DC, the more potential conflicts of interest.
I wouldn't want to give up financial independence to live with someone as you have described him. And I definitely wouldn't want to be financially linked to him (which is likely if you are moving in together, sharing bills etc).
I really don't like the 'he sees working and providing as his role'. So you are going to be little wifey stuck at home raising his children? What about your career?
I'm also at the 'he wants more contact but she is resistant line' but I'm a cynical old gimmer these days...
Also the line about her threatening to move as its "something she can easily do as her partner is in the army."
Well from my experience it is the army who moves you, not you asking to move. (Sometimes at short notice, or far more often than anyone wants.)
I hope it does all work out for you. But you are only 26! You do not have to rush anything.
Also do factor in how having more children can restrict you if childminding.
YANBU. I don't think I'd move in with any man who "expects me to get a job immediately my degree is finished" with such young children. Couples discuss the options and support each other's choices. I don't think he really has your kids' interests at heart. Or yours, come to think of it.
'he wants more contact but she is resistant line' but I'm a cynical old gimmer these days...
Yes to this.
My ex is likely to say it. Yet, he's the one who keeps missing contact.
I'd see how it goes until April.
Personally, I'd insist on immediate contributions to expenses and see what his response to that is.
This is a no-brainer and you know it OP.
This guy is looking forward to a cosy billet at your expense.
Sounds like a shit deal to me and no rational person should enter into a shit deal for no good reason.
What you've got works for you now. What he's proposing will work for him but not for you.
You would be insane to go for this and you already know it - that's why you posted here.
"mother is resistant" hmm unless you heard it from her directly take with pinch of salt....
105 per day or 60 per day for child care? for that you employ your own nanny or au pair. then no after school club needed.
your job career degree childminding - presumably your degree is child related eg teaching or something like nursing, but childminding self employed wont pay you any maternity leave if you have more children.
beware of taking on any kind of lease rental etc jointly with him.
I hope you can make it work, but do keep in your mind, if he costs you a set amount, it's not your job to make up the difference or to lower the standard of living your DCs have in order to make ends meet. A man moving in with you should improve your life, not make it harder.
This, exactly: "A man moving in with you should improve your life, not make it harder."
Hmmm, no doesn't sound Ideal
I would sit down and have a chat, if he doesn't listen its maybe time to call time on the relationship.
You sound desperate to hang onto this guy. How sad, you're only 26 and ready to get saddled down again. Also, as you are not married, you need to be very careful when entering into financial arrangements with this man as the law offers very, very little protection to unmarried partners during a split.
Wow OP he has apparently changed his views considerably from what he said originally.
It's up to you if you want to believe him, but he was very specific before about what you had to do - f/t job £1000 per month etc etc, so I would be rather disinclined to set much credence round his change of tune. Words are cheap, it's actions that count.
At the end of the day, you will do what you want to do and I suspect that is move in with this guy no matter what, because you both want to have a baby together to prove your love to each other.
You sound like a wonderful mother who has structured her life to best suit her DCs, so please stop and think as I can't see a single benefit to your existing DCs in moving in with him, but I guess they don't get a vote on this.
So who's name will the house and mortgage be in?
What happens if you split?
What happens if he dies with respect to you, your DC and mutual DC and his DC?
What happens if you die?
if we have dc i will mostly be doing it alone so he sees working and providing as his role he is really not going to compromise his career or time at all. It is very much your career if you intend to have one that will suffer from maternity, school runs, sick doing 100% of the household stuff, night wakenings etc.
Apart from having more DC I cannot see what you gain from moving in with a man who will work away Monday - Friday leaving you to cope with everything.
OP, I had dd when I was 41. You are 26 and well on the way to having your life nicely sorted according to your own, independent priorities.
If he can't wait a couple of years for your new career to be established then he's not worth having.
'Yes he appreciates that I'm doing and paying for everything alone and that if we have dc i will mostly be doing it alone so he sees working and providing as his role.'
Just the same way he fucked off on his other 2 kids. Do you realise how this reads? He's a glorified sperm donor with a wallet. A wallet whose bills will become increasingly thin once there are 6+ mouths to feed.
So you go and do all this training and then set yourself for long-term unemployment by popping out a few more babies to a man like this so you can wind up a single mum of 5 or more with no job after it finally gets through to you just how selfish this person is or he farts off on you the way he did on this other family. And, if you are not married, you are fucked.
He tells you what you want to hear to get his feet under your table. Don't be stupid enough to fall for it.
Right, so in order to move in with him, you would have to get a less good house than the one you have atm?
Er, shouldn't you be getting a better house than the one you have atm if you're moving in with another adult?
Really OP, he is sounding worse and worse. You sound desperate to try and persuade yourself that all the truths you know about him - which is that he is Bad News for you and your children - are not really there. It's like you're putting your fingers in your ears and singing lalalalala to drown out the sound of the clamouring alarm bells.
FGS don't do this, if not for your own sake, for the sake of your children. I think if you do, you will look back at this decision in five years time and rue the day you took it.
You are only 26. There is really no rush. You have an ideal set up for your situation and you are seriously considering throwing it all away for a man who hasn't earned your respect and trust. He needs to prove himself a hell of a lot longer and better, before you throw in your lot and that of your children, with him.
"I don't do his laundry but do cook for him and pay for food for us all."
OP - has he ever put his hand in his pocket at all? For anything? I am shocked that you are feeding this manchild.
"He isn't as bad as this all sounds"
I beg to differ. When you describe a situation in writing, you tend to strip out all the extraneous detail and confine yourself to the facts, just for the sake of brevity. We tend to
console mislead ourselves with those details; they disguise the underlying facts. Look at the facts you've covered OP. Because that's what they are. Facts. This man currently lives the life of a single man, dropping in on you for food and sex (all free!) and you yourself have said that "[if he moved in] Though he would get more sex, which seems to be the main reason he wants to move in sometimes." Don't listen to what he says, look at what he does, because that is who he is.
Yeah basically he wants to be a single man with a regular supply of sex and domestic service in your (smaller, less comfortable for your family) house.
Seriously, it's not just that it's a shit deal for you and therefore a no-brainer; the very fact that he can suggest it, shows what sort of a man he is: a self-centred, selfish one who thinks he's got lucky with you because you present an opportunity for him to billet himself on your family without being required to contribute anything worthwhile in return.
God I hope you can't drown out the alarm bells.
Hes already being a tightwad OP If he moves in with you he WILL be financially abusive.
Hmmm. It sounds as though the current arrangement suits you quite well so you should pause for a while (at least another year) before making any changes. The people who have to live with your decisions are you and your kids. If this doesn't significantly improve your lives, your kids will resent the usurper. No man is worth that.
It may sound terrible but please don't be so keen to please him. He needs to prove that he will be able to make things easier and not harder for you, rather than you prove that you are "committed". Frankly you are committed - you already have a commitment to the children you have.
Almost all of the women posting here, have been victims of financial abuse and abuse which escalated from there.
I have myself. He started with verbal abuse, moved onto financial abuse and then to emotional abuse.
I could script him, the way I could script this guy or I wouldn't be posting.
There is nothing in someone like this, and now I have a daughter myself I cannot express that enough.
Please listen to these women. They have been there, and so have I.
There is nothing wrong with waiting.
Why does he need to move in after Xmas? Why can he not do what so many other adults do - rent a flat? If he's away all week and with you for much of the weekend, then it's only going to cost him the rent and not much more.
He is bad with money. You need him to have learnt a lesson as you and your children need stability.
Why can't he spend the few years while you're getting yourself established and your children are growing, proving himself worthy of your trust? You will be putting your life and happiness, and your children's lives and happiness, in his hands. Why can't he spend those few years showing that he won't be pissing it all away?
Wait. Just wait. Please.
Sorry OP, but this thread is making my blood run cold. This guy - weather he realises it or not - is showing every sign of being financially abusive. It's not just to your childrens detriment, but yours too. FInancial abuse means you will always be scared, and if your confidence and self esteem end up at zero, you will have done well when (if) you manage to escape - mine ended up in the minus figures. And even after he left he tried to pull a fast one on the family home, but luckily a mixture of tiger mum and a glimmer of my old self came back and blocked him, and became my first step to my recovery.
Please, please listen to the advice in this thread.
He may be being conciliatory now, after you sat down with figures and the full support of us little sprites on the internet, but that doesn't wipe the slate clean.
I think one of the most revealing things about him that you've seen first-hand, is that if he hasn't experienced something, he will nevertheless value his opinion on it more than he does the opinion of someone who does.
He's been refusing to listen to you about the reality of household costs for how long? And that at a time when people are still on their best behaviour, and don't dare take each other for granted.
That's a nasty underlying personality flaw. It's one thing to be clueless about living costs, but to be arrogant about one's cluelessness and refuse to respect more knowledgeable people is even more alarming. It's not good, Dairylea and I wouldn't dare risk being financially dependent on such a person if I was already secure.
OP please listen to all the advice here. There are so many red flags. You are managing very well at the moment and enjoying your children. Fast forward 5 years, if it all goes wrong, possibly two more little children, a smaller house, more debts and you have unsettled your family.
You have nothing to gain and everything to lose, he has nothing to loose, take this very slowly.
Out of interest does he pay maintenance? If he pays through the CSA when he moves in with you I believe the CSA will disregard the first 25% of his income because you have 3 children living with you both and then his x will receive 20% of the remainder of his salary. You will of course loose your WFTC, he seems quite money obsessed I do hope he hasn't worked this one out.
Don't do it. You gain nothing- he won't physically be there any more than now. He gains a lot- home, domestic support etc.
You get told what to do, you lose money and independence and you have concerns it won't suit the kids. Just don't do it
Don't forget your own words:
I feel him moving in will be at the detriment to my children. AIBU?
All posters are doing is telling you what you know, what you knew when you started the thread, that you are not being unreasonable in not having him move in.
I've a feeling once you've had a baby with him he'll be pressurising you to get back to work as soon as possible to be bringing home that all-important £1000 a month...
He is making lots of demands!
He wants you to do this
He wants you to do that
When will it end? What if you don't get a job?
I really don't like the sound of him & would not be living with someone who didn't think my opinion on how my children are raised was important!
He is telling you something about himself, listen.
He has it all planned out, does he not....
Please show some sense and dont go squeeze out another baby just because a man is holding a gun to your head about providing for you and your three current kids on the basis of you making one more.
You have three kids already! He is already a dad (at least on paper). How many kids are you going to support between you?
risking a flaming here but... if you read DairyLea's post it does sound as if the guy has taken on board about prioritising the kids for now, him supporting the family financially and waiting until the right time for them both ot be earning. It's a perfectly sensible family decision to move to a smaller house and not spend so much to make it work.
Lets not forget that Dairlylea is not in that great a situation. Its not as if she is letting him move into a house she owns, for instance. She relies on benefits for now to see her through till she is ready to earn for herself- those benefits wont keep coming forever, as the kids grow up. It is a good idea to have a plan for him to support the family rather than the state doing it, and for her to take over earning herself as well, once the kids are old enough.
There's a lot of mistrust of the guy here, justified perhaps by the OP but less so by dairly's subsequent posts. It's as if we dont want to listenb to her when she says she has taken the original advice, talked to him, and he has responded. That ought to a good thing, surely? unless we dont believe a word he says- which is a bit harsh as we dont know him.
Many of you here have clearly suffered from abusive relationships and in your case, this advice would have been completely justified. But we dont know the guy, and he may in fact be the right person for dairy and prepared to build a family and make it work.
Of course there are risks- but I think the OP knows that now.
He may be BoB but if he is, then there is no harm in waiting, is there?
True. But some other posters are being a bit less restrained in their advice and comments
BoB - good post but lots of men talk the talk but fail to follow up with their promises.
Thats true as well, always.
I do think cocklodgers exist, for sure. Just trying to put another POV which is that good relationships also are possible sometimes, these guys may work it out.
I would be suspicious of any man that promises to "provide" for a woman.
You will be extremely vulnerable if you fall into the trap of "not affording" childcare, and end up a sahm to 4 kids, with no career to fall back on, and tied to this man with another baby.
somehow I think dairylea is going to go for it, whatever we say...
but if you do, just dont have another baby. you have 3, he has 2, do you really need another one at this stage of your life? sounds like you are getting everything together for your future career - do that for a bit, you can have a baby in 5 or 10 years if everything is good.
BoB, that's why I suggested that the OP should ask for some contribution right now and see what his response is.
It should be telling.
(although it is a red flag that he's been partially living off her without offering to contribute...)
You already have an independent life of your own whereby you are in total control of your living space, your finances and your children. You are working towards IMPROVING your future lifestyle on your own from what you already have.
Here is a man who has no home of his own, makes no meaningful emotional contribution to the upbringing of his own children, is saddled with debt but has these fantastic ideas of how you should live your well managed, solvent, planned out life.
Whatever your feelings for him you are in a far stronger position than he is and he knows it. If he can manipulate you now to his way of thinking, which subtley removes a lot of your independence, then he can do it forever.
The whole happy family forever may sound appealing and you may feel this man can help make that happen but if you pick somebody who begins their life with you by reducing you in many ways then it will only be a matter of time before you are sitting in front of a solicitor trying to get him out of your house.
I allowed somebody to do that to me and the damage they did to myself and my children within a very short period of time financially and emotionally was shocking. One of my children still bears the emotional scar ten years on and I blame myself for that every day.
I should have listened to my friends when they said to me "He has nothing Sparkle, no home, an ex with kids which he rarely sees and a load of debt."
p.s.: He left me holding OUR baby too.
BoB, but acknowledging that it might work out isn't quite good enough to actually take the step is it? When deciding whether to take a step that's going to have a massive social, financial and emotional impact on your life and that of your children, the bar to whether you do so or not has to be set as high as you can get it.
The OP is already set up quite well. She lives, not richly but reasonably. She manages her money, she has a good relationship with her kids, they're happy and stable, she's building on her training and education for a career. All this is something some people with formally better domestic set-ups might secretly envy her; so to risk it, it's got to be for something dazzlingly good and absolutely unambiguously better.
But that's not what's on the table here. This guy, even after the talk and the taking on board some of her points, doesn't look like an unambiguously better prospect for her. He's still got a long way to go to prove to her that it's a good investment of her time, energy, money and focus and in the best interests of her and her children, to live with him. He's nowhere near the point where it would be worth it.
I think that's why people are being quite vociferous about urging the OP to be risk averse. At 26 years old, she is incredibly young and has masses of time to decide whether to commit to this guy or not. And masses of time to find someone better tbh.
No one has to live with someone else. The problem is that it is the default mode of living so too many people ask themselves why they shouldn't do it - and in this case, there's a list as long as her arm - and don't ask themselves why they should do it. It shouldn't be something they do because he wants them to; it should be an active choice because not doing it would be unbearable for the OP and her children and she'd regret it for the rest of her life if she didn't. That should be the bar. At the moment, the bar's just nowhere near that.
Hear it for BasilBabyEater! Your last paragraph is absolutely spot on.
BoB are you quite sure you havent let your opinion on benefits colour your view of this situation.
I think you are the only one to mention it in eleven pages.
If the stuff being pumped out on benefits by media and politicians is going to influence the advice that someone gives out in a situation like this i find that very worrying.
The OP is risking financial abuse which is blindingly obvious by her initial post.
And the consensus on here agrees with that fact.
What's his hurry to move in?
dark I'm sorry you think I have an opinion on benefits, I can see why you might do, but you're mistaken.
It's just there are so many threads here where people get very set in their views, often saying LTB from their own painful experience, and repeat this no matter what the OP comes back with. This did seem to me to be happening here. I am in agreement with the risks that people are raising, just wanted to point out that the OP has come back with some pretty reasonable stuff which everyone seems to be discounting.
Anyway, I don't think she needs to hear my thoughts again, and I am sad to think you have read that into what were meant to be thoughtful and reasoned posts by me, so ill be off.
Im sorry if i was wrong beast I apologize A man i once had a relationship with showed similar sighns and it ended up with him screaming and ranting at me for taking longer than 3 mins in the shower. It cant half make you feel vulnerable having a bloke rant at you like that anyway but its even more intimidating when you are naked.
Of course he doesn't have more contact with his kids. Here's a dad who can't even be bothered to do something as basic as have a permanent address to take them to at the weekend. That's about as uncaring as you can get, OP.
I'm quite near to you in age and I want to club you over the head, quite frankly. You're SO young and there is NO reason to subject yourself and your dear little kids to this person who has already demonstrated himself to be irresponsible, feckless, dictatorial, ungenerous, exploitative and an unloving father to the poor children he already has.
I see no benefit to your or your children gained by this man moving into your home.
If I were you, I would not do it.
themaltesefalcon has said it for me.
Basil - your post is spot on. If this man wants to prove himself he should do so with actions not words.
I don't get the "we can't move because of his job" bit OP. Surely if he is working away that much it doesn't matter where he is based. Plus as a PP said his ex has no control over where or when the army posts them.
For a court to have recently restricted his access that much (and I'm guessing with the proviso that he sees them at his mother's) there must have been very strong causes for concern about his parenting ability. Does he ever have them for extended periods of time i.e. for a holiday? Have you met his dcs? How are they with him?
I learnt the hard way that men who are crap with money stay that way. His debts were either enormous if he hasn't been able to pay them off in two years with that amount of diposable income or he hasn't actually been paying it off at all just spending it whilst claiming to be paying it off (my xh's approach). I would want to know the exact amount of debt, how he had incurred it and be shown statements to prove it was being paid off.
You are right to have doubts and it is hard when you love someone to question their motives. A genuine man would understand what a big step this is and would be prepared to answer all your questions and wait until you were both ready and happy.
That's OK dark. Your ex sounds awful, of course you don't want the OP to have the same miserable experience. I do agree with everyone who says the op should be very careful- been agreeing with that in all my posts. Glad things are better for you now [flowers|.
I think BoB has spoken a lot of sense throughout this thread.
I think it is possible he has taken on board, the facts, when they had their serious conversation. But I think it is now time to prove it.
When his debts have been paid off, then he should continue to put that money aside and save for the future. I think they should be working together to make the move in perhaps, a years time. To all extent and purposes, nothing need change. He can continue spending weekends there but pay his way with regards to food and entertainment expenses.
In a years timeish, then they as a couple will have money saved and a clearer view of their relationship. If it doesn't work out, he will have money in the bank and the ops position will be the same as it is now.
Doing it that way, will show commitment from them both, as they are working towards the same aim, but gives them time to ensure they are not making a huge mistake.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket op, on his words, not actions.
Excellent advice from show (and thanks)
It seems the desire to play happy families sometimes blinds one to reality. OP probably just wants a man around the house. Any man...
That's unkind and unwarranted Mewli. Dairylea's partner has had two years to drip, drip, drip his influence over her. And "can't see the wood for the trees" is a cliché for the very good reason that most of us can't. Since the rest of us nest of vipers are at arm's length, it's easier to see the OP's 'big picture'; while her vision is natually obscured by detail and emotion. That's why it's so important for MNers to be able to come here and run their concerns past other people - something they are less likely to do if they expect to be met with unwarranted judginess.
I would do up some spreadsheets:
1. Your current income and outgoings.
2. Your income and outgoings if everything stayed the same except he was living with you so you lost whatever WTC and HB you are getting. Assume a 50:50 split of the bills but allow for an increase in council tax, water (if you are on a meter), electricity, gas and food bills.
3. Same as number 2 but with you working full time. Don't forget to take into consideration that you will end up spending more money on transport, work lunches, work clothes etc. You're food bill might also go up because you won't have as much time for food shopping and cooking dinner so could end up relying more on convenience food - rotisserie chicken is more expensive than roasting your own, frozen rice is more expensive than dried, ready chopped veg are more expensive than doing it yourself, being too tired to go shopping and cook so getting a takeaway more expensive than cooking etc.
While it seems like he's making all the right noises now, he could well just be trying to shut you up. You could easily slide into a situation where you have to ask him for money every single time you need to buy something. If you sit him down and make him look at the numbers in black and white it is more likely to actually sink in.
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