To be mad with DD over this?

(143 Posts)
nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 07:57:56

DD is 6, and although generally an ok sleeper, she still tends to wake early at weekends etc. The issue I have is that when she has woken up, she pretty much won't give up until I get up too. Not unusual in kids I guess, but I'm kinda wondering when dd will entertain herself or not make such a dramatic entrance into our room in the mornings. She literally 'runs' into the room as though someone's chasing her and invariably whacks the bedroom door against the wall, which generally means I get woken pretty unpleasantly. If she wakes in the night ( she has episodes of waking at least once a night for weeks at a time), it will also be a running/whacking the door entrance which scares the shit out of me tbh)
If I send her back to her room, she will come back in EVERY 5 minutes, literally will not give up, so getting back to sleep is impossible and weekends usually start with one of those groggy headaches.
This morn she woke up at 6, and did her usual of 'bursting' dramatically into my room. We have visitors who she loves and wanted to wake them up as well- I refused to let her, so said she could either get in my bed for a cuddle or go back in her room, she stood there sulking demanding to be allowed to go up and jump on said visitors. I saw red at her standing there pouting and whining, and having to deal with a potential tantrum before even opening my eyes so I shouted at her to get back to bed, waking up my OH beside me.

Since then, DD has now burst back into my room on 10 minute intervals, (the last one dressed in Santa Claus outfit (funny!). I lost my rag though and physically frogmarched her back to the room, shouting.
She's in there now sobbing, and I've woken the visitors anyway because I can now hear them upstairs. It's now also time to get up so technically she got what she wanted - just took a bit longer than she would have liked. I know was BU shouting and reacting, but sometimes I feel my DD is a classic only child (sorry- usually hate that term) in that she refuses to entertain herself and sees me and my needs as completely irrelevant. She bursts into the bathroom when I'm on the toilet, and if I send her out, she will stand outside laughing into the gaps in the hinges about 'what I'm doing on the toilet' etc. If I'm eating something she wants she will try harass me til I give it to her, or she will 'monitor' what I eat, so if I give her one biscuit and I have two, she has her eye on my other biscuit the whole time she is eating her own, commenting on why I have more than her.

Writing it down - I think she doesn't know she is a child or at least that I'm an adult!
I kinda figured I would get a little more personal space as she got older and I'm resenting the fact that I don't.

Am I being unreasonable? Unrealistic maybe? I feel guilty now that she's upset but sometimes I wish I could make her see that it's ok to be awake on her own, or that it really isn't ok to not allow me personal space at times. shock

livinginwonderland Tue 17-Sep-13 08:01:01

Do you let her play alone even if you're in the house? Like, give her something to do while you get on with housework or mumsnet? Some kids need to be taught how to play alone. Maybe tell her she's not allowed out of her room until say, 7am, and before then she can get up and read or play quietly so long as she doesn't leave her room.

your not alone, ds is 6 and very much acts sometimes like he can't understand why he's treated differently re bed times, having a drink late at night. the amount of times I have said the sentence because you are a child and im not is unreal. I don't think there is a certain way to deal with it other than sticking to what you say will happen if she continues to do x with ds the sticking point is his games. if he is rude to me or nags at me like a mini adult then he loses game time it seems to improve it slightly

YouTheCat Tue 17-Sep-13 08:05:35

Get her a clock and teach her that she is welcome in your room quietly after whatever time you want her to get up.

Make a big thing of it being all grown up to have a clock.

CeliaFate Tue 17-Sep-13 08:07:57

You have to take back control. Get a lock for your bathroom door and tell her if she stands outside while you're in there she will have xyz confiscated.
If she bursts into your room in the morning, she will have xyz confiscated.
Get her a clock she can read and understand so that until the time you say, she must stay in her room and play/draw/read quietly until that time.
I don't think you did anything wrong. She's ruling the roost with her behaviour.
I would look at increasing her interactions with friends, invite her mates over to play so you can have some peace and lay down firmer boundaries with consequences.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 08:15:51

Thanks for the replies. Mario- 'mini adult', you are so spot on. My de doesn't seem to have a clue that she's a child. She is going through an awful phase of answering back right now and the stuff she says is eye-watering. Last week for example I was nagging her to hurry up for a hol or she would be late. Her response? 'You're the adult, if I'm late, you'll be in trouble, not me. I saw red about that comment and literally ranted at her all the way to school, but did nothing to follow it through. I always feel a bit crap about issuing punishments hours after the crime as she says she can't remember/doesn't understand what she did wrong. There was nothing I felt I could so there and then as we needed to get to school.

I feel as though I've developed at habit with my own DD (just as my mum did) of ranting and raving and just shouting. She doesn't take me seriously- or she says the shouting upsets her which makes me feel absolutely terrible.

If she wants something, it seems to me that she will get it eventually, even if she has to go around the houses, hence the repeatedly coming back into my room in the mornings. She isn't afraid of my reactions - because she will return ('burst in') even if I've shouted at her to go back to her room). Of course I don't want her to be afraid of me but I wouldn't mind being taken seriously!

If I'm cooking etc she will watch TV in the next room, but she won't play in her room (ever, literally, never). Toys are largely ignored and she won't w even learn to turn the TV over, says she can't do it so shouts at me to come change her channels every 5 minutes. It's like she is the adult and I'm the child, attending to her every whim! Even if she has a playmate over, they will play downstairs or want me to entertain them- there would be no question of an independent game in her room!

All that would drive me mad. My 4 year old does all those things but to a much lesser degree, and because I pull her up on it every single time, and stick to the punishment I have warned her of, she is getting better.

If she was still doing it at 6 I would be tearing my hair out. The laughing at the toilet door is such blantant disrespect its unreal. My worry is that she would do that to someone in school.


Sorry but I think you are pandering to her. She is telling you that the shouting upsets her because she knows it will make you feel terrible and you will stop telling her off.

You need to get firm. The only thing she is scared of is losing her personal servant.

ShabbyButNotChic Tue 17-Sep-13 08:21:38

My friend has a 5year old son who was like this in the mornings, he wasn't being naughty he was just up and raring to go! They ended up getting him a clock (sorry dont know what its called) where you set it so the face changes colour at a certain time. He now knows not to come out until it changes.
Each night they also get him to pick a 'morning toy' eg, build his train set up/get out paper and crayons, then he has things ready to occupy him in the morning without banging about waking everyone. It took maybe about a month to 'retrain' him, but now he happily stays in his room playing. Good luck!

DameDeepRedBetty Tue 17-Sep-13 08:23:27

You absolutely have to start following through on the consequences, she is old enough to learn the things that she's saying she doesn't know how to do like change the channel, and unless you start work on it now, you are going to end up with a little nightmare.

Make a list of rules, write it down and stick it up somewhere for easy reference, and follow through.

Unlurked Tue 17-Sep-13 08:24:29

I would find a time during the day to speak to her about it. Sit her down and tell her that the waking thing has become a big problem, you're getting tired and grumpy during the day because you are being woken too early. Ask her what she thinks would help the situation (and listen to her solutions, even if they aren't practical they'll give you an idea of where she's coming from). Maybe choose some toys/books with her that you can set out the night before for her to play with when she wakes up.

From my experience of being a child with a very active imagination, the running into your bedroom could be because she's scared of any number of imaginary baddies chasing her down the hall wink

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 08:24:30

Yeah the toilet issue is bonkers. I don't want to give the impression that I let dd walk all over me- far from it. I think I'm quite strict but I seem to have developed a pattern with her where my interactions with her are negative and I'm stern all the time, 'anticipating' situations so issuing warnings in advance to ward bad behaviour off before it starts. I don't like the way I am interacting with her, but nor do I seem to be able to get her to respect personal boundaries and remember she is a child.

Btw if my dd was gently creeping into my room and whispering for a cuddle (which is very capable of ) I would be far more receptive than the almost aggressive and disrespectful pounding down the landing, and throwing open my door at 6am. I really can't tell you how much it gives me the rage to be woken like that! (I'm not a morning person though wink)

mistlethrush Tue 17-Sep-13 08:28:39

My DS has a digital radio clock in his room so that he has no excuse not to be able to read the time correctly. He is an early bird and has been told that, weekdays he can go down at 6.30, and weekends he can go down at 7.00. (I get up at the same time on weekdays but sometimes might have a bit of a lie in on a weekend) He also knows that if its before 6am he has to try to go back to sleep, but after that he can read in his room (and he has been doing this since he was 6 quite happily). (I must say, however, that we've just broken the habit of creeping into our room to ask 'can I go downstairs now' at the allotted time!). I would also set up a reward system for this - if you read in your room until x then go downstairs quietly and watch TV from y, I will give you... If you don't wake mummy and daddy up first thing in the morning we will go...

As for changing the channels? If she refuses to learn how to do it, fine, she can stick with the same channel - that will be one way of her learning to change it pdq. Similarly, getting ready - clear timescale, clear requirements (get dressed and clean your teeth now please - you've got 10 mins and we are leaving then) - if not she goes out in whatever degree of clothing she is in and if she's not dressed its her fault. Of course its not your fault - don't let her get away with that. My DS used to be really slow at getting ready etc - daydreaming, lost in his own little world - but, having got in the car for the school run in just his pants, with everything else put on the seat beside him, he knew that I was not kidding when I said that he needed to get read by by ... and that we would be leaving then, come what may.

PresidentServalan Tue 17-Sep-13 08:28:56

Juat want to say that most only children are fantastic at entertaining themselves from a young age - so I don't think it's fair to say that that is what is making your daughter like that.

CeliaFate Tue 17-Sep-13 08:29:41

I seem to have developed a pattern with her where my interactions with her are negative and I'm stern all the time.

This struck a chord with me. I think you need to reconnect with her, perhaps all this irritating behaviour is attention seeking on her part.

Can you spend time with her, playing a game or cooking whatever she wants (within reason!) for a while?

Then she may be more accepting of you needing adult time alone. Perhaps in her head you are her friend to play with, and she genuinely may not understand your irritation or may just thrive on any attention whether or not it's positive.

I still think you need to have consequences that you carry through for bad behaviour.

I'm sorry but she sounds like a spoilt little girl. shock Like u say, you are the adult, set down some rules now, good idea to get her a clock, stick to say 7am, be firm and she will eventually get it, she can play with toys, books in bed until then. Maybe use a sticker chart with a reward if she stays in bed for a week. She will only get worse believe me! unless you lay down some firm rules now.
Does she go to bed ok?

PresidentServalan Tue 17-Sep-13 08:32:59

And it IS disrespectful - that is what you have to sort out. At that age she is capable of understanding this

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 08:33:14

She will happily tell me if she's had a bad dream or bad thoughts -so the bursting thing I really don't think is caused by that, although I appreciate she night not be able to vocalise herself.

Good suggestions re: the clock and choosing toys, will do that, and I will also sit her down for a chat when I'm calmer. I've always been a shouter to be honest and I'm not proud of that, and I've made her cry over it. She isn't faking it in those moments- I can see that she has been shaken by it and i feel ashamed. My OH (not her dad) thinks I have a 'long fuse' in that I will try to hard to reason with dd/issue warnings, but when they are invariably ignored, I will blow and it is this 'blowing up' that he says is disproportionate to the crime. He believes that I need to act on the infraction immediately then I won't start giving off when she defies me. He is a very calm sort and I always feel worse when he points this out.

PresidentServalan Tue 17-Sep-13 08:34:33

She does sound spoilt - you need to curb this for her sake as well as yours.

CeliaFate Tue 17-Sep-13 08:37:49

I agree with your OH. My dh does this, he'll capitulate and reason and discuss and explain and then POW! He'll shout and it's come from nowhere in the dc's eyes, but in his mind he's reached the end of his tether.
It would be better if you said "No because..." and stuck to it.

RobotHamster Tue 17-Sep-13 08:39:05

Disagree about the classic only child thing. It doesn't mean they're incapable of playing on their own at all.

Get the tv out of her room, and you need to ignore some of the whining. I don't go running every time DS wants something doing - he does it himself or he waits. (almost 6yo)

If DS slammed into my room like that at 6am he'd be dumped straight back in his room with a telling off.. he's also got a clock in his room and knows not to disturb before then. If he wants to get up at 6am, whatever, as long as he doesnt wake me up

"If she wants something, it seems to me that she will get it eventually"
Do you mean that you give in? Never give in or she'll never take you seriously.

For some perspective OP, my 4 year old has been up since 7am, playing in her room. She has tidied it, got her uniform on herself, brushed her teeth and brought me the hairbrush and a pony to tie her hair up.

I still have to pour her breakfast, but watch this space with that one. grin

Teaching her to be more independent doesn't have to be a negative thing, it can be done through encouragement and praise.

Almostfifty Tue 17-Sep-13 08:42:13

Re the school comment. I would have taken her into school late, and told her teacher exactly why she was late. Just the shaming would probably stop her doing it again.

As to the rest. Stop giving in to her. Ignore, ignore, ignore when she shouts you, tell her which room you're in and if she wants something, to come to you to get it.

Don't keep reasoning, once you've given her a reason, that's it. Do you negotiate? At that age they need to be told, not reasoned and negotiated with. Keep telling yourself (and her) that you're the adult.

And get a lock for your toilet. grin

I bet she's absolutely lovely when she wants to be.

anotetofollowso Tue 17-Sep-13 08:44:48

I feel for you OP. I'm in a similar situation, with an only DS. In my case, I finally realised that the shouting was part of the problem, not the solution. Yes, I needed to set firmer boundaries; yes, I needed to make clear who is the child and who is the adult but the shouting wasn't doing that. If anything, it made me feel guilty and less able to set firm boundaries and institute punishments.

FWIW, my advice would be to work on giving up on the shouting and concentrate on building a better atmosphere between you and your DD. And, at the same time, work out which rules really matter you - and my answer is any rule that really affects your feelings and quality of life. So, for now, give up on the small things and concentrate on the biggies: privacy in the toilet, and space to wake up gently, for example. Do what it takes to institute those changes. And remember that only you can make those changes. That will communicate much better to your DD that you are the adult than any shouting or arguing.

Also remember that it IS a change, that it WILL take time for your DD to adjust and have compassion for her in the adjusting - that doesn't mean backing down or letting her rule the roost. It means doing what one does in the workplace: anticipating and understanding that change is hard and planning for a period of adjustment. But I found that calmly sticking to the boundaries and rules was what made the difference. The shouting can become a drama of its own - a distracting one that leaves you both exhausted and upset and right back where you began.

Hope that's helpful. And best of luck. There are many of us battling this one!

FrauMoose Tue 17-Sep-13 08:45:20

I'd be interested in how she comes across at school. Does she accept the structures there? If she does, is that happily - or with such difficulty that she is particularly challenging after school?

Some of the stuff you have said about mini-adult behaviour/always having an answerback/meltdowns not wanting to be alone etc reminds me of my charming but challenging stepson - who turned out to a high-functioning autist. (This tends to get underdiagnosed in girls.)

This isn't that likely - but if by any chance it did happen to be the case - treating it as 'naughty' behaviour would be off the mark, and the ways in which you'd need to try and get through, impose structures etc would be rather different.

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 08:45:20

Agree with what others have said and also you dp's comments.

But I would say maybe approach this in a positive sense too. My dd is 8 and has responded really positively to a star chart from very little. Give her a clock and then make staying in her room til the clock is at a certain point a starable achievement (yep I made up the word starable!!)

Ditto the other things you are having issues with. Rewards don't need to be big things, but things that she normally as such as a magazine or going to the park etc. My dd is working towards having some fish...each week the top reward is something to reach this goal, so far she's earned the food, a plant, a tank ornament and the gravel. We went to the pet shop and we talked about what she'd need to be a good fish owner and made a list. The end goal is the tank and then the fish themselves.

However we also have consequences as a part of this. Dd is a whiner and has 'using a proper voice to ask for things' column. So I can say 'dd if you carry on talking to me in that silly voice you will lose the star for talking properly' if she does then the star is not happening. One warning that is it. We both know it so its totally fair.

I've found it changes things and allows me a tangible threat as such that doesn't get me in to a negotiating situation.

JerseySpud Tue 17-Sep-13 08:49:00

I feel your pain.

My eldest DD is also 6 nearly 7 and sometimes she is horrible to be around. She's a complete know it all, sits outside doors listening to conversations, is one constant tantrum if she gets fed something she doesn't like, or if she can't do something.

And when she goes its about 2-3 hours before she calms down. She was an only child until she was 4.5 so i think alot of it is that she doesn't like sharing us with her younger sister who is far more placid.

But i think alot of the attitude, answering back etc is just an age thing. and apparently it doesn't get any better.

spg1983 Tue 17-Sep-13 08:49:16

This is going to be long but hopefully some of it will be helpful...

We had a really similar situation with DSS who is 7. Part of the problem was that he is only with us from Fri-Sun each week and his mum was going through a tough time during which he'd developed these behaviours and they also appeared during our time with him.

We got him a gro-clock which worked brilliantly to start with but again he started pushing boundaries once he could tell the time ("but it's only another 20 mins before I have to get up") and we have stayed 100% consistent, even sending him out when he was only 5 mins early. When we said we'd take the gro-clock away if he kept ignoring it, he immediately changed because he knew we would definitely follow through.

We have also had other issues similar to yours with food etc "can I have some of your food...hang on, you've got more than me, that's not fair"...even though he'd already had a plate of his favourite food ten minutes ago! Other things like opening a wrapper and then asking one of us to take the wrapper away from him rather than walk three steps to the bin. Not getting ready to get out of the house in time despite multiple warnings - we carried him out in his pants once when he was being particularly disobedient!

This makes us sound like we are really harsh but I promise we're not. Each and every time we explain why we are doing what we do - things like "if you wake up really early then you end up tired at about 5pm" or "you need to get good at following instructions to get out of the house on time for when you're at school" or "we'll miss treat X we arranged for you if we're late" or "if you keep things tidy then it's easier to find things and you have more floor space to play on" or "if you say please then people will see what a nice polite boy you are". Sometimes if he's being a monkey then we do pull out the old "because I said so" or "because you're a child and we are trying to do what's best for you".

He is sooooo much better now and is an absolute star especially when we go out - beautiful manners and doesn't do naughty things. Obviously he still has his moments as any child does but he snaps out of them much quicker.

He is still a pain at his mum's house though - opening packaging and throwing it on the floor, then shouting at mum to put the toy together but she's not there as she's putting the packaging in the bin...that she just retrieved from his feet. Then comes back and apologises for not being there when he first called. Then it's "mum I want a drink". No please, and she runs off and gets it. DH and I were appalled at how he treats her and always call him on it. She is at her wits' end with how he behaves but it's easy to see how it got like that, and I accept that it's harder for her and her DP to tackle it as DSS is with her for the majority of the time.

Sorry for the epic post but I think what I'm trying to say is that we've found the consistent and reasonable approach to be really effective, but it also shows that children are still able to revert really quickly back to different behaviours when in a different environment.

spg1983 Tue 17-Sep-13 08:52:15

Oh and we only have a very small number of rules (which cover nearly all things!!)...things like:

Be kind and polite to each other
No litter and tidy up behind you

spg1983 Tue 17-Sep-13 09:01:47

And a big yes to rewards as well, except we found that charts wore off after a while, we tend to do things like surprise trips to bowling etc every so often and we make it really clear it's because DSS has been so good recently.

Takver Tue 17-Sep-13 09:10:43

Only one thing to add - we used to put out a 'room service' breakfast for dd at weekends in her room when she was about that age. So a serving of cereal in a tupperware box, milk in a jug with a saucer on top, bowl, spoon and piece of fruit all on a tray. (Put it out at your bedtime, and the milk is still fine at 5yr old wakeup time!)

She used to wake us up because she was starving, but she loved her little 'hotel breakfasts' as a special treat plus we got time in bed so win all round grin Of course the quid pro quo was she only got them if we weren't disturbed . . .

hippo123 Tue 17-Sep-13 09:16:15

Get a lock on your bathroom door, put it high up if you don't want her to use it. In the mornings can she not go downstairs and watch a film or something? My 6 year old does this at weekends and makes breakfast for himself and younger dd. they both view it as a big treat. Sounds like you need to gain some control.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 09:24:34

Thank you all for your messages, really helpful suggestions here.

Yes my dd is lovely, she's quiet at school, teachers always say she is a back seat learner and doesn't contribute to lessons (I've witnessed this myself on helping days and was pretty shocked tbh) but she can be shy around others anyway. She is average ability and teachers are happy enough with her progress despite her shyness.

She is very much a 'one best friend' type child and is very very intense and posessive over her friend. That's a whole other thread to be honest because her intensity with this friend causes us big problems, such as she openly smothers the friend during play dates, gets upset at school if she plays with someone else, and has to be usually dragged crying and causing a scene from her house when a play date comes to an end.

I think the 'spoiled' comments, although sad to hear, are actually true. My dd is spoiled. Just now for example, the relative that she loves so much was getting her ready for school, dd was messing about, literally letting this relative dress her but making it difficult by being silly. I go in and tell dd off, she ignores and ignores me, relative is getting stressed because she will be late for school, I'm trying to tie her hair up and end up 'yanking' her pony tail to get her to calm down, which results in a screaming crying fit that I've 'pulled her hair deliberately to hurt her'.

By this stage, the whole house is awake and she needs to go to school in 5 minutes.

StuntGirl Tue 17-Sep-13 09:27:03

You actually stop what you are doing, go into the room when she yells for you and turn the tv over for her? shock Ok, stop that OP, stop it right now! She "can't" turn the tv over? Well she'll have to watch the same channel won't she!

She is definitely ruling the roost, and you're letting her. You've probably slipped into these habits accidentally, but its time to put a stop to them. The bedroom thing would be my first task. I agree with the suggestion of a clock. I'd also combine it with a star chart. For every day she waits til X time and then quietly comes to your room she gets a star. At the end of the week she gets a treat. Lavish her with praise when she does well. Ignore and quietly but firmly escort her back to her room if she disobeys. Don't yell, don't react, just take her back. As someone upthread said, even if its 5 minutes early, stay consistent.

Once you've tackled the bedroom thing you can move on to other behaviour.

StanleyLambchop Tue 17-Sep-13 09:32:54

'You're the adult, if I'm late, you'll be in trouble, not me. I saw red about that comment and literally ranted at her all the way to school

Have you tried telling her you will phone her head teacher and make her go on the phone and explain why you are running late? I have told my DD I have speed dial to the HT's home phone. Also, does the school have a late book? I often say that if we are late to school it will be her who has to put down the reason and 'My mum made me late' would not be accepted. The shame of the late book seems to be enough to get her moving!

Other than that, can I reassure you that 2 years ago I could have written your post. Now DD is a bit older she will read in her room, or do some puzzles until a (slightly) more acceptable time in the morning. So there is some hope at the end of the tunnel!

girliefriend Tue 17-Sep-13 09:39:12

I have an only and she has been able to get up quietly and play independently for ages (she is 7yo) I would go absolutely mad if she did to me what your dd is doing to you, in fact I am feeling the rage a little bit on your behalf!!!

It is not unreasonable at all for you to expect a 6 yr old yo get up quietly and play independently for an hour or so, she isn't a toddler ffs!!

My dd knows on wend to get up quietly and play independently, she will then tip toe into my room after about an hour and whisper 'can I watch the telly now please', I normally say yes and she potters off again. Most wends I get a lie in until about 9am.

It sounds like you are raising a complete diva and I wouldn't have it at all, her being an only is no excuse. Have a zero tolerance approach to the morning thing, warn her the night before that if she wakes you up you will be taking away xyz. When/if she runs in the next morning, don't even speak to her but go and get a black bag and fill it with her toys. My guess is you would only have to do this once or twice.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 09:40:29

By whole house, I mean the relatives that are visiting (one night only)

I feel awful now, truly awful because as was crying for a hug before school even though she is still shouting that I've pulled her hair, I'm furious at this almost 3 hour drama that has unfolded this morning and don't actually feel like suddenly hugging her to say its all ok now. I know I need to be the adult and not send her to school upset, but I'm still so mad that I tell her she needs to learn that she cannot demand that I comfort her and tell her everything is ok, because actually, it's time she learned that her behaviour is upsetting and I also need time to calm down.

Mumsyblouse Tue 17-Sep-13 09:40:29

I think this is partly an age thing, my now 7 year old is very much like this, it's all about finding the boundaries and just how much running about mummy and daddy are prepared to do. Me and my husband discussed this recently and decided that our youngest had to be brought back from her princessy behaviour for her own benefit really, not anything bad, just that she's a member of the family, has to tidy up, be polite and so on (she was doing all the things your dd does). I think she was acting up because it was a stressful time. Now- I don't get anything unless she's polite, she has to tidy up behind her, we are not her personal servants, but it's also nice to make time like reading together playing games or just lying in bed chatting. You can get in a habit of constantly telling off a child in this mind-set and it doesn't work- I also have been trying to curb the shouting for this reason.

Mumsyblouse Tue 17-Sep-13 09:42:45

nickname you sound like me, the defiance and princessy drama sets your own temper off and you can't then calm down. The best thing to do with drama queens is walk away from them, or remove them, or calmly tell them what you are going to do (even if they have a meltdown). In this situation, I would say 'if you are late, you will have to explain to the head-teacher why you are late' and let it play out. She won't really be late, she just wants two people's attention and that's not always possible!

Mumsyblouse Tue 17-Sep-13 09:45:03

And- she's too little to manage your emotions too. I think it's fine every now and again for your children to see if you are upset, but they can't be expected to moderate their behaviour to keep you calm all the time, it's beyond their own emotional understanding and powers, if anything, all attention is good attention.

Write off this morning, don't worry about it again, and concentrate on keeping yourself calm, and less on what she is actually doing, spend some fun time together too, but stick firm on the stuff like being polite, putting things away, doing what you are told (consequences, punishment, time out whatever works for you).

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 09:45:54

You are definitely right about the mind set I've got into with her - I hate that I seem to telling her off constantly and being so negative. She is completely lovely and funny a lot of the time but 'princessy' behaviour rings so true for me. I really want to tackle the shouting, it doesn't help that I'm off work sick today and have less tolerance as it is.

I will feel guilty all day that she has gone to school feeling bad. confused

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 09:50:58

Cross posts, yes I know I need to be the adult. I don't usually make her responsible for my feelings. I just in that moment of being angry thought that she is always demanding hugs in the immediate aftermath of a scene she's caused. Irrational and petty as it sounds, I resent it because she is skipping the part where she says sorry or acknowledges her behaviour, and jumps right to the part where she gets a nice cuddle and it's all forgotten, regardless of what she's just done or who she has upset.

Mumsyblouse Tue 17-Sep-13 09:52:45

nickname let it go, you have hundreds of other days to remain calmer. And I aim to be calm and still lose it. But it sounds like you need a bit of a mummy/daughter reconnection where you remember how well you get on, I sometimes find these things drift for a while, or one child (I have two) just starts being difficult and you start finding them irritating and it's a vicious circle. But don't take this morning into the afternoon, just leave it now, don't apologise to her (not necessary, neither of you covered yourselves in glory), pick her up, be firm but fair and try to build in some nice time, she will probably find just chatting with you or holding your hand on the way home a nice thing to do. I sometimes consciously have to step back from being too negative with my two, as I am naturally a critical person, and have to remember that everyone prefers encouragement than criticism (it's also easier then to be firm over the important stuff if you are getting on better).

WildeRumpus Tue 17-Sep-13 09:52:45

You need to be firmer op. Your dd is a little person, not a baby and needs firm, fair boundaries. You matter too!. It is soooo important that she learns this.

Get a gro clock and just do not get up when she wants you to. Waiting won't hurt her and you firm and still friendly when she tantrums. Just don't cave and she will get the message soon enough.

Ask her to give you privacy on the loo. My 3 yr old ds gets this, and we respond in kind. Does she know how her behaviour makes you feel? If not, she should be made aware of this. If so, can she tell you why she feels the need to do it?

Read 'how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk'. Has great advice on how not to shout but get your point across and how to prevent the situation where you are reasonable then explode. This is such a helpful book for troubling times!

Some days ds is such a boundary testing bugger and I feel so mean. But I stand firm because I am bringing up someone's future husband... Letting your kids know you deserve time for yourself to have coffee etc is importantor they could turn into very stroppy entitled adults!

The other side to this of course is a lot of fun and attention when it is their time smile

Easier said than done tho I know op! Good luck! smile

WildeRumpus Tue 17-Sep-13 10:02:45

Ps. It is ok to say to your dd that you are not feeling like a cuddle because she has upset you but will do later. Your feelings matter. She will understand that her behaviour has a consequence (you are upset or cross) but also that there is resolution - you aren't freezing her out but are showing that you won't be manipulated so she doesn't have to feel bad for being rude/mean. When you feel calmer and want to make up talk about it, cuddle and move on smile

wonderingsoul Tue 17-Sep-13 10:08:10

i have to agree, this struck a cord with me to, and i can relate to it.

I seem to have developed a pattern with her where my interactions with her are negative and I'm stern all the time.

it is very easy to get lost in it, and i have days/ week where it seems all iv done is told them off, when i get like that i let loose and have some proper child crazy fun with them, tickle fights.. jumping around singing..even just a movie night snuggled up watching movies. ANYTHING, so i i can reconnect and remeber that they are fun, they are children and its me that needs to get a grip, not them lol.

the bedroom thing, i echo the clock/alarm, getting things out, i used to have a waker but thankfully he would sneak in and id find him in the morning. could you have a talk with her, have some one on one before it, so she feels secure and happy, it may help her listen more.

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 10:19:32

I don't agree that being empathetic to yr 6 yr old turns them into stroppy entitled adults.I have always tried to ask myself WHY dd or ds is doing such and such; as someone upthread said they might be feeling scared or lonely and have an exuberant personality; they can't think "i know I'll annoy mummy by banging the door open to wake her up."

IMO and E all dcs respond to quiet discussions. The gro clock sounds a good idea but if you could look at the problem from her angle it would help a lot too.

DeWe Tue 17-Sep-13 10:20:21

Ds is 6yo and still wakes sometimes during the night, when he usually either calls out to me, or comes running into our room to bury himself between us, much in the style of your dd.

It's not naughtiness that gets him like that. He just finds it scary waking up in the dark and needs reassurance that we're still there. It's definitely a panicky call, or a panicked run through to us.

What I've done is get him a digital clock with big red numbers. He now knows if it is before 7am on weekdays, or 8am weekends, he has to be quiet. So he might call out to me, but he knows if I come through then he isn't to chat, I'll just quietly resettle. And if he comes through to us, he comes quietly. And I always cuddle him so he feels secure.

It's working quite well so far.

cjel Tue 17-Sep-13 10:24:30

This sounds like a nightmare for you , I don't agree its an age thing. I have a huge family and 2dcs and 5 dgcs and haven't seen 6 yr olds go through this, but thats no help to you!!!
Its brilliant that you are so aware that you don't like your behaviour as well , but try not to be too hard on yourself - we can all only do our best.
The clock sounds a brilliant idea I know of one that looks like a rabbit and you can set for sleep time and awake time.(i think it may have been on GLT)
I would also suggest seeing if you can find a parenting course. they aren't for people who are getting it 'wrong' but for all of us to try and help us through this difficult

AaDB Tue 17-Sep-13 10:29:17

Hope you feel better. Try to sleep and start the day again after school. We all have bad days.

I also disagree about only children being unable to entertain themselves. In our house there isn't a battle of wills, I make the decisions and (eventually) what I want will happen.

I am awake early and so ds (6) doesn't go downstairs on his own. He could do though. He has an analogue clock and has known 7am is the earliest he can get up since he was 2 1/2.

I had an epiphany last year. DS wanted to play with slightly older friends out of my sight. He was really upset when I was hesitant. In the end I agreed, but he had to come back periodically. We had a chat when we got home and agreed he could have more freedom if he agreed to be responsible.

I do listen more to his requests and he is able to articulate his needs. He gets washed and dressed in uniform before he comes down and he gets a sticker and can watch TV as soon as we get in. Sticker charts are worth pocket money. Stickers come off after one warning. TV usage is linked to behaviour.

Be kind to yourself. Give yourself a timeout to read or have a bath and expect your dad to entertain herself. Agree to play a game or go to the park afterwards. Do you have anyone that could look after your dd for a few hours?

Be consistent, ignore the behaviour you don't like, reward that you do. I'd also set up mini weekend treats (bowling, cinema) and a big treat after a month. I would not allow friends over or visits until behaviour improved. I'd tackle the morning shenanigans and toilet thing straight away. Once she knows you will stick to your guns, it should get easier.

Nanny0gg Tue 17-Sep-13 10:29:42

IMO and E all dcs respond to quiet discussions

No, they don't. Yours might, but if a child is strong-willed enough then all the discussion in the world won't bend them. Then they just need to know who's in charge.

I have always tried to ask myself WHY dd or ds is doing such and such

Sometimes, it's just because they want to.

OP - as others have said, you need to take back control. I think you need to start being really firm, and keep going till you 'win'. Ignore nonsense like switching channels on the TV and have clear consequences for bad behaviour.

On the flip side, can you earmark some regular time over weekends to do some on-to-one fun things with her? Let her lead that and try and get back the relationship you want. Gives her something to look forward to as well. ( and don't make it conditional on her good behaviour in the week, This needs to be entirely separate.)

magesticmallow Tue 17-Sep-13 10:38:32

Wow I'm stressed just reading about your dd so I can only imagine how you feel! My dd was an only child until recently, she is 7, and never ever behaved like this and if she had she would never have gotten away with it so the only child reason is absolutely no excuse.

To be frank your dd sounds like a spoilt brat and it is your fault, I can't believe you change the channels for her :O

It will be hard but you can turn her into a lovely 6 year old you just have to persevere and when it's hard and you think you are being mean and you feel bad then remember this (this will sound harsh and I don't mean it to be but I am being honest) - you have to stick to being firm with her for her and your sake or else:

- She will end up with no friends, her behaviour towards her friend(s) will only mean she ends up alone and people will not want to play with her, and really you couldn't blame them?
- you will end up with less visitors, if I were the visitors that were there for this episode I would never be staying over again - would you?
- You will miss out on a lovely mother daughter relationship because frankly she doesn't sound nice to be around at all
- the problem will spiral and she will end up a spoilt, entitlement little madam who is a loner because she has no friends

I know this is your dd I am talking about and I am sure she has redeeming qualities but it's time to get tough before things get worse

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 10:49:19

All dcs are different they need boundaries but also UNDERSTANDING. Sometimes adults behave badly if they're tired,hungry or whatever why do so many people seem to think that we're always calm reliable beings and Dcs aren't?

A good idea from upthread was to give her breakfast it may be she just has low blood sugar level as you do at that time of day why should she a 6 yr old be punished because of that?Also 6 year olds sometimes can't (or forget to say what they're feeling).

PresidentServalan Tue 17-Sep-13 10:57:38

And the more you do for her, the worse she will be. I have a relative who was indulged and princessy when she was a child (youngest of three) and she has turned into self entitled spoilt adult who is also bringing her child up in the same way. It sounds like you are excusing a lot of the behaviour but you are the adult - you have to stop these behaviours for her own sake. It is not because she is an only child, it's because you have enabled her.

Cat98 Tue 17-Sep-13 10:58:31

My ds is a year younger but can also be like this too, it's har because my dh is often the one who will give in to him when I try to be stricter, so I end up the bad guy.

I sympathise. My ds is also an only child, can be lovely, and we do clamp down on rudeness so he's not too bad in that respect, but he just cannot entertain himself for 5 minutes. It's exhausting!

Exactly my thoughts majestic hurry up and take control, she will only get worse.... As for changing channels, words fail me shock

Fairy1303 Tue 17-Sep-13 11:02:37

I so feel your pain, OP.
My step daughter and I have had some issues, largely due to the emotional impact of me oving in with her dad when it has always been him and her... It's meant that I have had to work so hard over the years to be firm but let her know that I love her.

I appreciate that it is a different situation, but there are imilarities. She sounds a lot like your DD.

Now, I have stopped shouting. I calmly explain that x y z is not ok, and I would like her to stop. If she doesn't stop I will remove x y z toy or she will have to go to her room until she is calm.

We then talk about why she thinks I am cross.

We also have time each week where we spend time together just me and her and she chooses the activity. This always happens regardless of behaviours, so we get a balance of firmness and niceness.

Good luck!

FlapJackFlossie Tue 17-Sep-13 11:07:13

Over the channel-changing - perhaps each time you answer her demand to change the actually turn the tv OFF?
She'll soon get fed-up with that, surely?

DIYapprentice Tue 17-Sep-13 11:23:38

I'm really sorry to say this, but YABU because YOU have caused this.

If she wants something, it seems to me that she will get it eventually, even if she has to go around the houses

The ONLY reason she gets her way, is because you give in, repeatedly. So she knows that if she pushes, and pushes, and pushes, she will get her way.

If she throws a strop because you won't change the tv channel, turn it off and confiscate the remotes.

If she barges into your room before 7.00 am on a weekend, then she isn't allowed out of her room until 7.30. No point in just enforcing what she is supposed to do, you have to add a deterrent, ie the extra half an hour because SHE HAS WOKEN YOU UP.

DON'T give her an enormous cuddle just because SHE wants to feel better (especially if she has had no other punishment!). SHE has created the situation. Tell her that a consequence of upsetting someone is that they get the right to feel upset and hurt, and she cannot pretend everything is ok just because she feels better.

She has learned that she can push you until you shout and react, and then you probably - out of guilt - make it up to her. What a lesson - rile people up and you get your own way.

If you decide to take a firm stand then you have to expect that the next few months will be REALLY painful as she fights back to get the control she had, because lets face it, she has been in control, not you. You have to stand firm and make her realise that the more she kicks off, the WORSE it is for her, just holding her to what was expected of her in the first place doesn't win you anything, she has to LOSE when she decides to fight you.

Oh and at 7 years old they CAN remember why they have had a punishment. My DS is 6, and he remembered darn well why we weren't stopping off at the playground after school for a week, it was because he had a monumental tantrum where I eventually had to drag him home. HE mentioned it as we walked through the playground on the way home, and he knew that it wouldn't be until the following Monday that he would be allowed to stop off. He remembered for a whole WEEK. I'm sure your DS can remember for one day!

The reason why she SAYS she can't remember is because quite frankly her behaviour is so normal to her that she can't see why she should be punished.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 11:24:47

I don't think I've made excuses for her behaviour to be honest, I've maintained from the off that I think it's unacceptable.

I don't however want to give the impression that its all the time- because it isn't, she is also very loving and kind. With regards to her friends, dd isnt nasty to her - she just loves her madly and thinks its ok to smother her. To be honest I have tried everything to reason with her on this one, and I mean everything from talking to her, explaining that her friend doesn't 'belong' to dd, that they can still be best friends if her friend plays with other children, etc. Her teachers have always commented on dd's 'love' for her friend but kindly explain that it causes issues in the classroom because dd gets upset if she isn't say, put into her friends team for something or doesn't get to eat with her at lunchtime. I have invited other friends over, distanced her from friend at weekends to see if that helps- it doesn't. She only has eyes for this little pal and I so wish I knew how to quell the feelings she has, because she truly ties herself up in knots about her and I know it's only a matter of time before the friend outgrows her.

As for other behaviour, I know you're right. I recently showed dd how to switch channels herself - but she got bored. To be fair, it's a multi-media set up and a bit tricky. She couldn't turn it on in the mornings even if she could be bring herself to come downstairs, because it has so many buttons. She could however, switch it over and I'm point blank refusing to be summoned from the kitchen anymore. One day last week she calling me to switch it over and I told her I was busy and would do it when I finished. She then came to the kitchen and moaned and whined incessantly, so I told her it wouldn't be turned over at all now - and so a shouting match ensued. That's the thing that I hate, dd won't accept a punishment, however small (like me not turning the TV over) without a 'fight'. I can't bear the cheek/answering back, so she gets sent to her, lots of crying hysterically, and what was initially a fairly minor infraction has now escalated into being sent to bed.

Someone upthread asked me if I always give her what she wants. No- absolutely not. What I do feel is that dd herself will eventually get what she's wants (ie, she got me 'awake' at the same time as her this morn, by the incessant returning to my room. Ok she didn't get me out of the bed as she wanted, but she had me 'up' in the sense that I was reacting to her behaviour and so as someone else said, any attention better than none.

I'm sorry about the only child remark. It's just that I can't help making observations between say, my brothers children who all play independently, or my friends children etc. I find it odd that my dd follows me around the house, invades my privacy at the toilet and won't let me stay in bed if she wakes up - all things I have, (probably wrongly) attributed to being an only and not having to share space and time.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 11:30:01

DD has dancing class tonight. She loves it. Does anyone think I should ban her from going as a punishment for this morning?

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 11:31:25

Our 3 Dcs are now adults and were bought up with understanding they're all different but not spoilt and we didn't ignore they're feelings.

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 11:32:11

Sorry 'their' feelings. blush

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 11:33:44

nickname No I don't think you should ban from her dancing class.

Fairy1303 Tue 17-Sep-13 11:37:13

OP honestly I have been you. Your DD is my DSD two years ago.

A book I cannot recommend highly enough is 'how to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk.' Honestly, it is brilliant.

Mumsyblouse Tue 17-Sep-13 11:43:02

No- let this morning go! She got it wrong, but so did you! It's much better to think out the consequences of the specific act rather than have a random punishment, she's been all day at school which is stressful enough. Let her go to dancing class, have fun together, I think you need this more than anything as you are very negative about her.

Then, at a time when you are not stressed and shouty (and you have bought a gro clock), sit down with her and explain what you need her to do in the morning ('you can sit in your room, play, get out of bed, but don't come into my room til the bunny ears pop up/it gets to 7am), how to do it, the positives (you will be happy to see her, she will get to watch TV at 7am or whatever) and what will happen if she doesn't do it (consequence, you will be too tired to do XYZ treat). Make her a star chart, she is not too little aged 6 for basic stuff like that.

You also might need to consider that she's feeling your negative feelings to her, and it gets a bit of a vicious circle, with her constantly coming to you for reassurance, not getting it and becoming more whiney/naggy. It's not that weird for a 6 year old to wake you up at 6am, irritating, and you can solve it if you want, but not that weird. My nearly 8 year old comes for a cuddle most mornings earlier than I'd like but at the moment, she seems to need that and does get anxious in bed, so rule that out before getting tough.

I think people's advice is good: set boundaries, but doing things like punishing her hours later for things this morning is just not the right way to go about it. Calm and nice instructions, limits, yes, but going all heavy handed will just produce even more confusion in her about how to act.

InsertBoringName Tue 17-Sep-13 11:44:55

OP Apologies I've not read the whole thread but Aldi have grow clock type things on offer from this Thursday if they would be any use? I'm getting one for my DD!

Almostfifty Tue 17-Sep-13 11:45:56

I wouldn't ban her. If you'd told her this morning that that would happen if she didn't behave, then fair enough.

I think a sticker chart would help. Don't be afraid to involve school as well, sometimes a word from their teacher makes such a difference. I've done it in the past (though they were further up the school)and it made them think twice before they started misbehaving.

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 11:48:23

YYYYmumsy and fairy1303 YYY!!

Too late to ban her from dancing class tonight - but maybe you need a list of things that she loves that she will lose - dancing class included - for misbehaviour in the future, along with a clear list of rules (watch out for her trying to negotiate loopholes though, you need a "parent's word is final" clause)?

To be blunt, OP, my DD is 6 and I would be appalled if she behaved like you describe your DD. Not that she is not capable of tantrums and tears and cheekiness and arguing and trying to negotiate everything and crocodile tears - she definitely is and it winds me up. In the scenario that you describe about changing channel (I am sceptical about her not being able to do it, however complex, BTW - my DD can happily navigate on demand TV with multiple remote controls because she wants to watch rubbish TV and knows I won't do it for her) then DD would have been sitting on the stairs, with the TV off for the rest of the day, if she had dared to even start to shout at me about it.

zipzap Tue 17-Sep-13 12:07:17

I don't think you should ban her from her dancing class tonight. But I would tell her that if she does xyz - whatever naughty thing you decide on to tackle first - then maybe she will get a warning the first time and then the second time she does it, she will miss her dancing class.

It's tricky as if you are paying for dancing classes then you don't want them to miss out.

COuld you find something else that could be taken away from her if she doesn't behave? Eg that the TV will be turned off, even if just for half an hour. And if she plays in her room nicely then the tv will be turned on again for half an hour. If not, no tv.

FeliciaDoolittle Tue 17-Sep-13 12:08:04

OP, I have been you. I completely and utterly empathise with everything you're saying.

For a long time, it was only DD and I. My partner moved in last year and that was the catalyst for change in our house. Previously DD would crash in as soon as she was awake in the mornings. TBH, I'd bring her into bed and put the TV on for her, then turn over and go back to sleep. It didn't bother me so much because it was only me. DP, on the other hand, wasn't really up for this. So things had to change.

We did the clock thing. It worked a treat! And it worked really quickly. We all sat down and we explained what was happening and why. DD still tried to come in and ask if it was ok to do X, Y or Z some mornings, but she was sent away very quickly. She was told to use her judgement.

When you said about the feeling between you and DD being mostly negative and you always looking ahead to divert the next confrontation - I was with you. I spent far too long of mine and DD's life doing this. TBH, there are times when I still do it. But I made myself back off. I simply refused to let myself behave like that any more. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but things are a lot better than they used to be.

Sit your DD down and have a calm and frank chat. Explain to her that you don't like the shouting, but that you need some help from her to stop. Make a deal with her. I have had to do this several times, as we both slipped back into old habits. But we're in a pretty good place now. She can talk to DP and I about anything, and frequently does. The shouting is nowhere near where it used to be and life if (normally) quite harmonious.

Ignore those who say you're raising a spoiled brat. You're not. You're doing the best job you know how. We all are. Nobody gets it right all the time.

I wouldn't stop her going to dancing.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 12:20:37

Felicia, thanks. It's hard to hear people referring to her as a spoiled brat. I realise I've been pretty negative about her behaviour on this thread but that's purely because of how the day started, I'm obviously not going to come on here and talk about about all the lovely parts of her personality for the sake of it, but she is truly a lovely little child in so many ways. I think her shyness in class and intensity with her friend is a lack of confidence in some ways - she is her friends shadow when they're together - it's just that my dd wants to be 'together' with her friend every spare minute and hangs off her every word. She idolises this other girl, so to be clear to other posters, there is no mistreatment of her friends.

I agree very much though that I've let things slide and that's my fault. I never follow through. I threaten to ban dancing but have never once carried it out because 1)it's expensive and I pay monthly and 2)she gets so much out of it and would be letting down team members for recitals etc, which I would feel bad about. I accept now that this is probably something she will have to suck up temporarily until she tows the line.

I'm going to get a clock, a sticker chart, and that book- today! smile

LadyBigtoes Tue 17-Sep-13 12:21:34

I have a 3yo DD very like this - of course a lot of this is more to be expected at 3 but I'm trying very hard to lay down the boundaries because I can see her being very hard work later if I don't.

I do get ratty and shout sometimes, though I try not to, and I think actually that not only doesn't work, it's almost what she's looking for, as in she likes to see me riled, just as she likes to think of things to make me do for her (giving me her litter instead of going to the bin is a classic one.)

What works best is being calm with very clear instructions. If she whines or orders me around I say, as calm and matter-of-fact as possible: "I can't hear what you're saying, I can just hear whining" or "That's not how to speak to me, you won't get anything you want by talking to me like that". She does actually know how to ask nicely and say please etc. and will do it if I stay calm and withhold what she wants until I hear it.

She is lovely when not trying it on with me and much better-behaved and more independent when not with me. I think it's just a long hard slog that you have to go through, repeatedly, calmly insisting on acceptable behaviour and showing that you mean it.

Longer-term systems with rewards are also good - like a star chart with a star for every morning she can stay in bed till 7 (or whatever time you choose) and then a reward for a full week, such as a trip somewhere nice with you giving her your full attention.

I also don't think it's an only child thing - my older DS was an only until nearly 5, then he had to deal with a very demanding sibling coming along, and he's never been like this.

Mintyy Tue 17-Sep-13 12:29:08

Are you sure she fully understands you? 6 is way too old to not understand that no means no. I would be worried if I had a child who hadn't grasped the basics (after repetitive explanations from you) at that age.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 12:44:12

Mintyy- really? You thinks unusual for a small child to not push the boundaries and if they do, it means they don't understand the word 'no'?
I mean I know my dd is really pushing it at the minute but I don't know any 6yo who does what they're told first time, every time.

TeenAndTween Tue 17-Sep-13 12:57:43

re getting into shouting matches.
This is where you need to be strong. Say "I have told you my decision, I am not going to discuss it any more". And then don't discuss. Just ignore the whining if you possibly can. If necessary shut yourself in the bathroom for a while, but ignore. It takes 2 people to argue.

Also re banging your bedroom door onto the wall. Get a doorstop or use a cuddly toy so it doesn't bang.

on repeat in our house are variations of the following:

Me: No
DD: please Mummy / Why not, Mummy / but I really want xyz Mummy....
Me: DD, what happens when you keep asking after I have said no?
DD: You get cross
<<DD either gives up or stomps off, depending on mood, but she does at least stop asking>>

Mintyy Tue 17-Sep-13 13:10:42

No, of course I don't expect a small child to do what they are asked first time every time! Not at all.

But your dd seems to have no concept of how much this door banging early waking is for you ... and the way you describe it in your op, it has been going on for years. Surely you must have spoken to her about it before now?

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 13:31:36

If you have a Phoenix person near you they so lovely star charts!!

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 13:31:53


nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 13:37:31

To be honest - and I know this night sound stupid, but for years I kind of ignored the dramatic aspect of how she enters our room just incase it was related to a bad dream, plus as I said, she is certainly capable of coming in nicely. It's only really today, coupled by her dreadful waking of the whole house with the tantrum that I've accepted there is no fear there - she is bursting into the room out of disrespect.

She spends time at her dads at the weekends and he is an early riser, and I think much happier to be up and about as early as she likes, but that's something she just needs to learn to work on. I've decided as of today I'm no longer happy for her to charge into our room like a bull, hence posting on here.

As it stands, this thread has also highlighted for me the situation with her arguing with me the or the giving me orders, or using a high pitched nails-down-a-blackboard voice to communicate with me. I want it to change but I know I have a huge part to play in that.

Can someone talk me through sticker charts? To be honest, I've been a bit crap in the past, never really getting whether they should be used/drawn up to work on negative behaviours or rewarding bad behaviours. So do I give a star if she gets through the day having avoided the behaviour that is unacceptable? What is the goal- should it be linked to her dance class, or a weekend treat? And should it be one strike and you're out kind of thing or is there 'chances'?confused

magesticmallow Tue 17-Sep-13 13:39:20

I don't think anyone suggested (not that I saw, apologies if I missed it) that there was any mistreatment of her friends but lets face it smothering a child and crying in class at that age is hardly fair or age appropriate behaviour is it? So when I said she would end up with struggling to keep friends it was because of this and not any mistreatment, I do realise it is out of love but still her friend/other children will outgrow/be put off by this stifling behaviour.

I just noticed you said you would be a reward chart, I definitely wouldn't do this at all at all. Reward charts are for encouraging good behaviour not trying to stop bad. You are going to reward her for stuff she should be doing anyway? Bad idea, in my opinion, just get tough, man up, stop shouting and start warning in advance what the consequences to her behaviour are and stick to it.

Don't stop dancing today, it's too late, she needs to know in advance what the consequences are not after the fact

For the "high pitched nails-down-a-blackboard voice" or indeed the general whingy voice, my standard reaction when I catch myself before I just snap "stop whinging, DD" is "I cannot hear the words when all I can hear is whinging. Try again in a proper voice"

<<and repeat>>

magesticmallow Tue 17-Sep-13 13:45:04

Sorry x posts - so what are you going to say "Well done dd here is a star for not bursting into our room, for not being disrespectful, for not shouting and for not ordering mammy about - well done"??? - eh no, she just doesn't do it, people don't get rewarded for not being bad

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 13:46:27

Magic, how would you tackle the issue with her friend? I am genuinely at a loss. I can't control how she is on the playground, I've talked it through with her a million times, told her off if I've heard she was crying at school, kept her away from said friend at weekends to try and dampen the attachment, spoken to child's mother, sat with dd and her teacher to talk about needing to play with others and the importance of giving people space. I literally don't know what to do with this one.

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 13:49:00

nick you really think she is dissing you deliberately.Maybe she has just forgotten that you are not her Dad who is up early. I find that 'respect' and 'disrespect' a fairly frightening way to talk. It reminds me of yobboes going down the street say "You dissing me man?".Do you respect her?

It also tends to be used by corporal punishment supporters to rule by fear it's not something to be used with DCs IMO.

Re dance class (or TV privileges, which would be cheaper and easier to enforce) - How about 5/10 objects in a jar on top of the fridge (pieces of pasta, ping pong balls, whatever). Every transgressions sees one removed - if they are all gone by a given deadline, then no dancing/TV that week? Something very visual to remind her how close she is to losing it.

I have to admit, the first time she didn't lose any I would be tempted to reward her, but I wouldn't mention that bit in advance.

magesticmallow Tue 17-Sep-13 13:49:53

What is her pal like - as in is she sort of the same as your dd, is she happy for the two to just play together etc?

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 13:50:03

Well that's the thing I've never really got with sticker charts, at the moment there are several aspects of her behaviour I want to tackle, so how can I give her something to work towards rather than telling her off about it all week? Lots of people here have mentioned sticker charts to sort it out, does anyone else have a suggestion on how I should draw it up?

LeoandBoosmum Tue 17-Sep-13 13:54:47

Just on a practical note, for now get a big heavy doorstop to put behind your bedroom door so it doesn't slam against the wall when your dd comes in.

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 13:55:02

Maybe to deal with the problem of her friend; you could invite a couple of other friends she likes in her class or the street for short times. Give them tea or something.

spg1983 Tue 17-Sep-13 13:55:36

Definitely agree with magestic re the reward charts - why reward her for something she should already be doing? I'd sit her down and make a few ground rules, not too many but 'loose' enough in their wording to cover pretty much all circumstances, e.g. In our house we have "we are kind and polite to each other", "we tidy up after ourselves" and "we eat food at the table".

Of course reward her for a sustained period of good behaviour and for making an effort but definitely do not give in to anything - you will need to be 100% consistent and make the sanctions clear before you start and stick to them!

I am a teacher in a secondary school and when I first started we had a rewards system which was awful - there were no set things that children got rewarded for so for instance there were generally naughty children who got reward points for sitting down when asked or remembering to bring a reading book in or answering 1 question in class. The ones who worked hard and behaved all the time found it much harder to get rewards as they did all that stuff anyway so didn't need any reward points to encourage them to keep it up. At the end of the year the prize winners with the most points were always the naughty they carried on with how they were behaving (badly) because they were getting prizes for it hmm and the good kids stopped trying to get rewards because they just couldn't keep up with the number of points the naughty kids got.

I could see their point - the system was wrong and those who really deserved the rewards were not getting them and the pupils who needed to improve their behaviour had no incentive to do so as so little was expected of them anyway. Not the best example i know...Hopefully you can see my point...!

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 13:59:08

Ppea I think you might be taking me out of context- I certainly don't have a military type view of discipline, nor do I think my dd is 'dissing me' (!)
I'm coming at it from a point of view that my dd is struggling massively to understand the need to try and think of other people's needs. She knows I'm off work today sick for example, and still kept that drama going this morning, little things are pointed out to her to help her develop a sense of empathy for others, such as 'please give me privacy in the bathroom- it's isnt respectful to shout through the hinges while I'm on the toilet, or it isn't respectful to roar at me to change channels or bring you a drink', that kind of thing.

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:00:42

We have things like the examples I gave before plus 'getting ready for school properly', 'making my bed' and 'not going into ds's room without his permission'! Just whatever is relevant to the time. They can change weekly depending on what we need to work on/what is a problem. I phrase it positively and we talk about what the expectations are and what she can achieve. Seriously though it isn't an opportunity for mega presents or anything. It's to get the things we would do normally if behaviour is good but its stated in advance. I probably wouldn't use dancing as a reward more the smaller things. Maybe 10 stars is baking some cakes, 20 is a trip to the park and an ice cream and 30 is her favourite making it magazine? Then there is a link between the nice things in life and behaving well/being part of a family and towing the line a bit.

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:03:32

[[ I use this one for dd]

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:04:01
cjel Tue 17-Sep-13 14:04:02

I think you are making excuses for her, you are biased and could be overestimating your' lovely little girl', she has trouble mixing in school for whatever reason - could be because she hasn't learnt how to interact with people without fighting, .It takes two to fight and if you are fed up with it then stop!!!
Being possessive over her friend sounds like insecurity and controlling and if teachers have had to speak to you about it then it is a problem now.
You keep saying you 'tried but it didn't work' distancing her from this friend again reinforcing her belief that if she makes enough fuss she gets whatever she wants.
She will be so unhappy being like this and it is up to you too stop making excuses and start getting help to parent her differently if what you have tried hasn't worked.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 14:11:17

Ppea- I do invite her friends from class all the time, I'm desparate to change the smothery-friend situation but its to no avail. She will happily play with other kids - but her number one pal is always there at the back is her mind and she would happily ditch other friends as soon as her bestie appeared. Her eyes literally glaze over like a love struck puppy (I'm not kidding!)smile

Majestic- her friend loves her very much too and they are always delighted to see each other, but this friend is a little bit of an intellectual (of that makes sense at such an age!) and loves to play games which are slightly beyond my dd, such as digging for archeological finds, playing 'museums' and detective role plays, which bore dd, so they bicker. This friend also complains (although kindly I must admit) about my dd not giving her any space on the playground to play with others. They also bicker during play dates but then beg for another one a few days later, so in a way, they can't seem to do without each other BUT my dd's behaviour will always go a step further. For example, she never wants a play date to end and have a crying fit about it, whereas her friend is always 'cool' about home time. Her friend also sometimes decides she has had enough and calls time on a play date, which causes my dd to complain about her in front of her. Basically the little friend is lovely, but very 'together' in a way my dd finds hard to achieve.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 14:17:08

God I can't win. I've said I know it needs to change, I've said I will incorporate a sticker chart, get the clock, and talk to dd tonight. I've said I won't stop dancing tonight based on advice I've received here. Can you tell me how I've made excuses for her? I actually think I'm being overly negative about her on this thread, and have had this pointed out to me too. Really, the friendship issue is genuinely one that I DON'T know how to fix, please tell me how to sort that out rather than just tell me off about it??

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 14:19:59

Neena- thanks for that link, will go and check it out now

3rdnparty Tue 17-Sep-13 14:20:16

i am bloody useless with rewards/stickers so wouldn't suggest that but do have a ds that could tantrum his way in an empty room at 6/7 and i had an awful period of just shouting which made me feel crap....

I started with the don't screech/scream etc to me come back when you can speak- have even sent him into the garden...(do you have a trampoline- would tell him to go and bounce)

just turned the tv off if he moaned - also played the waiting game you cannot out stubborn me.....

at first went quite cold turkey - everytime he started no matter what - I did that , made him write in the late book at school etc

now am at stealths place where I just say what happens when you moan/whinge.....he has a good stomp sometimes but hey ho - it is a lot less frequent and he is much easier to be around and so much better company - now often its an eyebrow lift or I turn it round and make a joke about it - ha ha you cannot be serious me pick up your toys ha ha or lets do it together - but we did have to be consistent ...

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 14:20:55

nick It was just the use of the word respect which implies that she behaves deliberately badly, from what you say she doesn't sit and think about how to approach a situation at all and there needs to be understanding in how you react. It might just because she's hungry IFYSWIM.

i found that the sticker charts meant that him and his sbro and sis wanted rewarding for things they should be doing and noone was going above and beyond the bare minimum so that didnt work. now it revolved around pocket money on roosterbank i will take a small amount say 5p for bad behaviour/attitude and it will keep going if the answering back does. i dont shout if i can help it ( but will admit to doing so when its all gets too much) same with little jobs that arent getting done i only ask once then money starts to be lost. i do give rewards for good behaviour, above and beyond stuff but not stuff that should be being done anyway.

LadyBigtoes Tue 17-Sep-13 14:25:58

Re the sticker charts etc - yes of course she should be rewarded for being good! You're getting some conflicting info on this thread but I think rewards for good behaviour is definitely something the experts tend to suggest. (I know experts disagree too but anyway...) You can have a reward system like a pasta jar where you take them away for bad behaviour and put them in for good, or a sticker chart where you get a sticker for a good morning with nice behaviour and not barging in early - and yes you can have one chance - e.g "You want to get your sticker for doing well this morning - this is your chance to get back into bed until 7!"

I went on a parenting course and while I'm not suggesting for a second it has made me a perfect parent, I did respect the knowledge and experience of the course leader. She said one of the biggest problems with bad behaviour is that it parents always notice and react to it, then the child gets ignored when they are good (because of course it's not posing any problems so busy parents just don't notice it so much). So some children learn to kick off just to get any kind of attention and feel any kind of control - that's well-known I think.

So yes reward and also frequently praise good behaviour - we say things like "That was nice asking" "Well done for playing nicely while I was cooking" "You were so good at the supermarket, shall I put a pasta piece in the jar?"

BoozyBear Tue 17-Sep-13 14:27:59

i think you need to get hold of 1-2-3 magic, its done wonders for discipline in this house, but for now, the basic tenets are you count them down to the consequence.

Pick a consequence suitable to the situation.. docking pocket money, loss of tv/computer time/toy confiscation/time out/sent to room/no dance class...etc. make sure its something you CAN and WILL carry out, without fail.

Tell you dd that if you count to 3, that the consequence will happen.

Then its literally 3 strikes and you're out, and you HAVE to be consistent, you MUST carry out the consequence.

my 7yo can be a PITA, but since i started doing this i rarely if ever have to say 3, he might push me for a 2, but rarely a 3!

BoozyBear Tue 17-Sep-13 14:29:45

oh, and now its established, i can often head off bad behaviour with a simple "DS, do i have to start counting?"

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 14:30:36

Boozy- 123 magic worked wonders on my dd when she was a tot but then I wasn't consistent enough and she went back to her old waya(so did I!) so I will dig it out again, thanks for reminding me how good it is! smile

WiddleAndPuke Tue 17-Sep-13 14:33:55

I was just about to recommend 123 Magic but BoozyBear beat me!

It works. Just that really. Your little madam needs to learn consequences and the 123Magic way is firm but not harsh.

AaDB Tue 17-Sep-13 14:35:46

We have a sticker chart that rewards good behavior. We have punishments (for want if another word) for not behaving well.

A full chart is worth £10 - his pocket money for the month. He gets stickers for getting dressed and going to school without a fuss, helping out etc. Basically a sticker means he has had a good day. Two stickers for a remarkable one. Stickers come off for things agreed in advance. DH is driven mad, by ds not flushing the loo. It sounds a bit strange but we all understand what the,rules are. It takes at least a month or more to fill the chart. We try to take Ds to the shop to spend his money as soon as possible.

To discourage more serious behavior we don't want we have a warning and consequence. DS went through a very grumpy and cheeky phase last year. School drop off was a nightmare. He was warned once and told what,would happen. No TV worked well for him. There were also rewards for behaving well all week. A trip to the park, friends over, bowling.

I'm sure your daughter is lovely but she also has some bad behaviors. The morning wake up call would infuriate me. Keep calm and try not to engage. You need to change the rules of engagement.

My ds has never used pester power. He had a friend over to sleep and I found it hard to deal with. In the end I just said that that the answer was no and wouldn't change. We bought popcorn for when we watched a movie before bed. Little boy must have asked 50 times if he,could have it yet. In the end I said if he asked again, it would stay in the cupboard. He didn't but I would have stuck to my guns.

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 14:35:53

Yes LadyBigToes The' reinforce good behaviour' is a brilliant way to manage DCS.

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:40:09

Oh nick what you're going thru is a typical blip. Everyone has one, about something. One persons child will moan, one will be a bit spoiled acting, one won't eat, one is a nightmare at school etc etc. We all have them. Ds is nearly 13 and dd is 8, we've had blips.

You know your little girl. Better than anyone else. You also know yourself. You've been really honest but not being consistent and what your situation is. I for one think you're just a normal parent and your little girl is just a normal little girl having a push of boundaries and some issues getting to grips with how friendships work. You'll find a solution I'm sure because you are acknowledging the issues. That's half the battle.

You will find a solution and it will get better and pass.

I think it easy for people to say you should do this/should have done that.

I agree about reward charts - they are a bit like the 'reward stickers' some children get at school for doing what they should be doing rather then the children who are good.

Anyway back to you I think the place to start is to talk to your dd when she gets home from school and explain why what happened this morning happen. And then go on from there.

How about instead of 'house rules' make them 'family rules' and include some which just relate to you and your DP so she can see it is not just about. But also add consequences for her. E.G. Coming into your room before 7am she looses 5min of TV time for every time she does it (well also help with her maths grin) and every time she stays in her room until getting up time she gets a marble/pasta in a jar and when got to 30 she gets a treat. But will also loose them for bad behavior.

I mean after all it no going to improve over night, but everything you can do to help her improve to where you want her to be is a step in the right direction.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 14:45:38

Neena, that's really kind and makes me feel better. She is lovely. Just recently for example my friends 2 year old bit the heads of a chocolate mouse collection she had in her room. It was her pride and joy. My dd handled it so well, saying that he was 'only a baby' and when his mum bought her a replacement bar of chocolate, she gave half of it to the little boy. I was so proud of her and while I know she has some spoiled behaviours, she isn't a brat. That I am sure of.

Thank you all so much for the input, I'm going to decide this evening wish sticker chart to draw up! smile

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:45:59

I am certainly not suggesting rewarding with anything over and above normal things a child would have. More that a link is made between the nice things you do as a family and the nice behaviour and courtesies that you expect in the family too.

AaDB Tue 17-Sep-13 14:48:39

I think slamming your door is disrespectful. It is unkind for her to wake you like this, especially if you are unwell. I wouldn't accept hunger as an excuse. Ds is starving when he wakes. He has supper and has to wait for breakfast. He is allowed fruit anytime.

Neena28 Tue 17-Sep-13 14:49:51

Nick I think most parents have been where you are with something. I also think what you said about the bad bits not being the whole of your daughters personality wasn't picked up on. If dd was lovely about something like the mouse I would possibly have popped another star on the chart and made it clear I was proud of such lovely and thoughtful behaviour.

As an adult I respond much better to being asked nicely and things being phrased in the positive than the negative. Kids are no different and the star chart has always allowed me to change the yelling etc to a threat, then a consequence and then that's that. I hope it helps.

PeppermintPasty Tue 17-Sep-13 14:53:55

Can I just add support for the clock. My 6yo ds had this problem until I knuckled down and thought it was about time (none intended) I taught him to read a clock. He always had a teaching clock but it was stuffed in a drawer! He got it in one night and was keen to show me that he knew when to come in our bedroom (when the hands show 7am), and after 2-3 weeks this is now the norm for him.

Good luck. oh, and the clock is a Lorus, you can get it from Amazon I think.

magesticmallow Tue 17-Sep-13 14:57:49

You see nickname that is lovely that she handled the chocolate so well and you could reward that. But please be careful not to reward behaviour that should be normal i.e. not asking you to change channel, not coming into your room at the crack of dawn, getting dressed etc.

We had a chore chart that worked well in our house, dd got a daily star for doing jobs she helped choose i.e. making her bed, opening her curtains and bringing down her water class before school, setting the table for dinner, giving her room a 10 minute tidy, polishing the sitting room. It wasn't so much about the chore but more for her to be aware of helping out and taking responsibility but it involved lots of well done's etc. So please reward extra good behaviour and not what should be normal practice.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 14:59:16

Thank you, I think it's easy to get drawn into only thinking negative things about your child when you've had a bad day, but it's worth taking a moment to point out that as you say- it isn't her entire personality. She regularly wins pupil of the week for helping others and the adjective above her name peg at school is 'kind xxxx'. It's this little person that I want to draw out of herself and see her become a 'kind' adult.

cjel Tue 17-Sep-13 15:09:53

I think you have had loads of people who have been through similar and given very good advice. You have come back every time saying things like 'please don't think shes like it all the time' and trying to explain more a bout all the things you have already done and tried discussing with her. they are excuses - you are making them. If you stopped trying to explain yourself and listened to what people were saying you may learn something. It isn't easy, there isn't one way that will work overnight, it is hard being a parent and no one is underestimating how difficult this is going to be for you except perhaps yourself who wants easy result with not much pain - it isn't going to happen.
Take on board what people have suggested, don't argue back - which you are- try listening to dd instead of answering back and see where that gets the pair of youx

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 15:22:44

Cjel, if you've actually read the thread you'll see that I've been very honest about my own failings. You'll also see I've asked for suggestions and said that I'll get the clock, and the sticker charts as well as work on my inconsistency. I've also thanked people for being kind enough to take the time to advise me. You however, seem to think that if I mention dd's strengths alongside her shortcomings (and indeed my own) that somehow I am in denial or I want an easy way out. Really, your interpretation of my posts doesn't make sense, except of course to chastise me, which you've done. Twice.

cjel Tue 17-Sep-13 15:23:51!!!!!!

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 15:33:45

But out of everyone on this thread, you're the only one saying that I haven't taken the advice on board and that I'm arguing, Its weird!
This has been a really helpful thread for me and I not only feel better after a really crappy day and beating myself up about my parenting, but I've taken away lots of ideas and links to look at this evening.

Wasn't it you upthread who said it takes two people to argue and that if you don't want to argue then just stop? So here you have it: stop!

ppeatfruit Tue 17-Sep-13 15:59:57

Yay nickname grin good luck!

becsbornunderadancingstar Tue 17-Sep-13 16:25:40

Hello OP - went through similar stuff with DS (he's an only).

For the morning thing, we got him a clock for his room. He has a chart where he 'earns' screen time - each smiley face is worth 10 mins of either watching TV or playing on the computer. He gets a 'morning smiley' if he doesn't wake us before 7am, eats breakfast nicely, and gets himself ready for school with no reminding. Then we do a big deal with lots of praise when we give him the smiley on his chart. If he hasn't done it, no smiley. We don't make a big deal if that happens, but later in the week when he wants to go on his DS I'll say 'Well, do you have any smileys to use?' I don't tell him off, it's just a consequence.

We found it worked better if he 'earned' rather than taking it away as a 'punishment' - I was having the same problem of feeling that our interactions were too negative and this made it positive. Also on his chart he gets smileys for doing homework etc and then he can get 'bonus smileys' for speaking nicely, being helpful, doing chores etc etc. It works out that he usually can earn quite a bit of screen time if he's behaving well. Every time he wants to watch TV/play on DS or computer we see how many minutes he's earned, he decides how many 'smileys' he wants to use on that day and we cross them out as he uses them.

It works well because he was wanting to be a 'little adult' and this was a way of giving him responsibility and independence - a way of him being 'grown up' and earning things for himself. And it's a positive interaction instead of a negative one.

For the toilet I sat him down and gave him a 'Wow, you're so grown up now' talk that included 'Now that you're getting grown up, part of that includes privacy. Is there anything that you feel private about?' (We agreed then that he'd like me to knock before I come in his room, which I have stuck to.). Then I explained that he couldn't come into the toilet when I was there because he's not a 'little boy' any more, he's a 'big boy'. He forgot the other day and started to unlock the door from the outside when I was in the toilet, I told him 'no' and he stopped. Then I came and found him and said 'You forgot that you're a big boy now, didn't you? Remember, babies can come in when their mummies are in the toilet - I used to bring you in with me all the time when you were a baby - but you're so grown up now that we give each other privacy.' He hasn't done it since.

We also do family meetings once a week, and get DS to add items to the agenda that he wants to discuss (people do laugh at us for this but it works!). Again it's about letting him be 'grown up' but in a positive way. The sort of item he adds is 'Can we have pasta next week?', 'I'm worried about something that happened at school' and DH and I add items like 'Let's agree a rota for chores that includes everyone in the family', 'What should our 'family rules' be?'. DS has equal talking time to us. That seems to help with the 'little adult' thing too.

becsbornunderadancingstar Tue 17-Sep-13 16:28:56

Just seen that while I was typing that mammoth post you got lots of similar replies! In which case I'll just add that the tactics you've said you'll be adding in (sticker chart, clock etc.) will really help - DS is now 7 and his behaviour is MUCH better since we did these things.

nicknamegame Tue 17-Sep-13 21:27:19

Becs that's a great bunch of idea, thanks for taking the time. I love the idea of the family meeting!smile

greenfolder Tue 17-Sep-13 21:39:45

Takes me back- I don't think its an only child thing at all. My eldest dc went through a phase at 7-ish of just pushing the boundaries, in particular banging up the stairs and slamming her door. I gave her fair warning, then removed the door and told her she could have her door back when she earned it ( I was a little embarrassed when I found out they do this in american boot camps). Another time I told her she couldn't go to brownies and told brown owl why. The minute I followed through, her behaviour changed.

hettie Tue 17-Sep-13 21:43:58

we have a a gro-clock in dd/ds room. Ds is 6 and may well be near to be being able to reliably tell the time, but tbh I prefer the bullet proof reasoning of the gro-clock. I bloody love it grin it has transformed mornings in our house. BUT... you HAVE to reinforce it... ours is set to 7.00 a.m and the kids know they will be sent back to read/look at books, chat quietly etc until that time (when the sun comes up).

Retroformica Tue 17-Sep-13 22:25:31

Gro clock. Set the timer for 7. Reward for staying quietly in her room till then

Set up audio stories in her room? She can listen first thing.

She's only repeating the behaviour because she knows eventually and will get her own way. Don't give in. Stand firm but be calm

Make her earn screen time/pudding/sweets. Early waking equals no screen time/pudding/sweets whatever for her.

CocktailQueen Tue 17-Sep-13 22:32:16

Wow. I would hate being woken like that. My DS is 6 and would not dream of doing that. Shows a lack of respect for you and your needs. I think you need to get serious about following through w consequences so she knows you mean business. So, a star chart or punshment - time out, asking away tv time - fr being naughty/not listening to you. Also get a clock for her room that you can set an alarm in when it is time to wake you.

What is she like at school?

HollaAtMeBaby Tue 17-Sep-13 22:44:23

She sounds terribly spoilt and badly behaved. Get locks for your bathroom and bedroom doors and impose some serious consequences for waking you before your approved time.

MrsMook Tue 17-Sep-13 23:00:37

Consistency is the most important thing for any age (my experience is toddler, brownie, secondary) for positive and negative consequences.
We had a brownie with no boundaries who knew she could grind her mum down on anything. It didn't work with us. It didn't take her long to realise that we meant what we said, and we had the patience to stick to our guns all weekend. She ended up being really good with us, because she knew exactly what was acceptable and what wasn't.

BeaWheesht Wed 18-Sep-13 00:12:31

Ds is also 6 and is quite a lot like you describe your dd. he will only play upstairs if someone else is up there, has started answering back and being stroppy etc etc. I don't have any magic cures other than being consistent and following through works fairly quickly for my ds. He isn't an only child though. He's just quite highly strung I guess and quite demanding, he always has been, even as a little baby he never slept, he didn't cry much but he squeal and shout an wriggle until he was entertained all day and all night....

BeaWheesht Wed 18-Sep-13 00:14:20

Oh but ds does at least know that unless there is a life threatening situation he doesn't leave his bedroom between 7pm and 6am. That isn't to say he doesn't shout through for us....

BeaWheesht Wed 18-Sep-13 00:15:02

(Apart from to pee of course)

ppeatfruit Wed 18-Sep-13 09:28:40

yeah Holla and she should get some chains and hang her DD up on the wall of her bedroom every time she squeaks that'd soon shut her up FGS woman.

cory Wed 18-Sep-13 10:00:42

One thing that helped me was the "headmistress impersonation". Basically, I found I could avoid getting drawn into long arguments and rants if I pretended to be this terribly experienced and compentent person who simply couldn't be thrown by the behaviour of a 6yo. Think twin set and pearls and sensible shoes. Plus that special way of looking at you under slightly raised eyebrows. Somebody who had seen it all before and just knew they would get their way in the end. The more I channeled this person, the less hurt and worried I seemed to get, and the less hurt and worried I was the more effective I was, so the less I had to be hurt and worried about. Of course it didn't work every single day, but it helped on many days.

Whereisegg Fri 20-Sep-13 17:16:57

I appreciate all the pp saying she shouldn't be rewarded for things that she should be doing already, but that's the point isn't it? She isn't doing those things.
She shouldn't be rewarded forever for getting dresses nicely etc but for now? I think it would really help.

My ds (6) isn't too bad but constantly has to be asked to do the same things over and over and over.

I got fed up with the sound of my own voice so dp and I sat him down for a chat (no tv/radio etc to distract him) and we told him of 3 things we wouldn't constantly remind him of anymore.
There are more than 3 things but picked the 3 we were most fed up with.

We went on to say that if his ears couldn't hear us saying " time to get dressed" then our ears wouldn't be able to hear him when he asked for tv time.

For the first week, I reminded him of this after breakfast and it has worked really well.
I have said "oh my ears seem to not be hearing children asking for treats very well today" when he has had a wobble with it but have never had to say it more than once.

Good luck!

Rowgtfc72 Fri 20-Sep-13 20:48:08

DD is six and an early riser, luckily a quiet one. We got a digital clock for her room. If she takes too long in a morning then she gets up half an hour later. Makes her very cross as its tv time that's being eaten into. She can change channels and put on a dvd (we have three remotes) She has had to learn as we refuse to do it for her. Our biggest threat is no dancing-luckily we havent had to use it very often. I do the count to three thing as well, these days I rarely get past two.Sticker charts dont work with dd she just shrugs and says "oh well". If she has a paddy I send her to the hallway in a calm voice,she knows this means I am very cross. I have to remove her before I start shouting as we can shout as loud as each other. We have had the "I will always love you but sometimes I dont actually like you" chat,she agrees somedays she doesnt like me either. DD is an only and we joke she used to be my little stalker. She has grown out of this, Im obviously not as interesting as I used to be. Maybe your DD will too. It is a boundary thing at the end of the day. Set clear boundaries and stick to them whatever, much easier now than when shes thirteen.Good luck!

nennypops Fri 20-Sep-13 21:04:30

Just a small point, but have you tried something like putting a cushion behind your door so that if she does the thing of banging it open it won't actually bang? Or maybe putting one of those spring closer things on so she can't actually shove it open so dramatically?

ppeatfruit Fri 20-Sep-13 21:29:52

I was thinking about this and had a eureka moment! how long have you been with yr new partner? Has yr DD been used to him for a long time or is it that she feels pushed out?
(You may have done it very sensitively BUT if she FEELS that she has lost her beloved mummy who she used to have all to herself then of course she won't be able to SAY it clearly but the morning crashing into the bedroom is saying it isn't it?).

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