To be upset for DS

(61 Posts)
impatienttobemummy Tue 10-Sep-13 08:43:52

DS is 23 months. Picked him up from nursery to be told he'd had an off day. From one look I could clearly see he wasn't well start of a cold. One of the nursery staff said he hadn't been himself all day not really laughing or wanting to join in.
Then she told me that at lunch and dinner time he refused to say thank you and instead cried his eyes out when they asked him to. So a colleague of the nursery nurse I was speaking to refused to let DS have dessert by taking it away from him replacing it with fruit which he didn't eat as was upset.
AIBU to think he's 1 a bit young for this dicipline and I'd have made allowances considering he was feeling poorly.
We have had some issues with tantrums at home which I've told nursery about. The colleague apparently said tell mum we have seen 'the real DS today'?!
I'm worried about him being there now!
Btw I'm pregnant so bit hormonal so am looking for rational advice! Thanks

PeacockPlumage Tue 10-Sep-13 08:46:12

Poor thing, and poor you. Have you had concerns before? Is the nursery manager approachable?

Forgetfulmog Tue 10-Sep-13 08:47:13

My dd isn't yet 1 so I don't have your experiences but I've already started disciplining her (not punishing obviously) but letting her know that certain behaviour is unacceptable. Sorry but I think YABU

impatienttobemummy Tue 10-Sep-13 08:47:16

About this member of staff yes. She is the assistant manager, the owner is approachable, do you think it was a bit heavy handed?

impatienttobemummy Tue 10-Sep-13 08:49:14

Thanks forgetful, I worried I am bu as I also do dicipline but its the fact they did it dispite him clearly not being himself... He always says thankyou usually

Silverfoxballs Tue 10-Sep-13 08:49:53

I have always been quite a strict parent but that would upset me as well.

Platinumstart Tue 10-Sep-13 08:51:08

Do I think it is heavy handed to punish an obviously distressed and poorly one year old by removing food? Bloody right I do!

I would be furious in your position and very concerned that when it became apparent that he was unwell that they didn't call you to collect him.

Forgetfulmog Tue 10-Sep-13 08:51:31

Sorry, skim read & missed the bit about him not being himself. Was he poorly then? If so then YANBU & allowances should have been made. Apologies for that

Mama1980 Tue 10-Sep-13 08:52:59

I would be furious in your position.

impatienttobemummy Tue 10-Sep-13 08:57:15

Thank you, I was a bit shocked at the time, then last night it really played on my mind. The message relayed to be about 'the real DS' worried me as I told them about tantrums to be helpful not so that it would be used against him. Ill speak to the owner

Fairyegg Tue 10-Sep-13 08:57:27

I would mainly be annoyed that they are using fruit as a punishment. Fruit should be encouraged to viewed as a treat IMO. I would certainly bring it up with the nursery.

cashmiriana Tue 10-Sep-13 09:05:07

It's very bad practice to use food as either punishment or reward in a childcare setting. I would be complaining about this.

Cuddlydragon Tue 10-Sep-13 09:09:51

YANBU. I would be upset for my DS being punished for feeling below par. I'd have a word tbh.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Tue 10-Sep-13 09:11:16

YANBU. I'd be upset about the seeing the real DS comment. And I agree that fruit should not be used as a punishment, you want them to be encouraged to eat it! I'd be speaking to them.

Noteveryday Tue 10-Sep-13 09:15:07

Hmm I would expect my 2 year old to say thank you - but I would have handled it in a softer way e.g. when he cried, cuddling him then still making him say thank you or do the sign for thank you or say please can I have my dessert? Rather than swopping it. YY to bad practice using food as punishment.

Noteveryday Tue 10-Sep-13 09:16:32

The seeing the 'real DS' comment - most children are extra well behaved when they start a new setting then, after settling in, relax in to their usual behaviours (e.g bit of boundary testing) so this may not be as bad as it sounds.

Onebuddhaisnotenough Tue 10-Sep-13 09:19:56

Yanbu for all the reasons already mentioned.

BigW Tue 10-Sep-13 09:23:42

If anything, I am quite strict. But I would have been cross. If a child is poorly, they should be looked after. Also, I don't think withholding food is an appropriate or effective form of punishment.

Fairylea Tue 10-Sep-13 09:25:57

I would be furious.

They should have realised he was unwell and made extra efforts to comfort him, not upset him further.

Nanny0gg Tue 10-Sep-13 09:31:15

Much as I like good manners, I would not expect an under-two to always say their Pleases and Thank-yous, even though it should be encouraged.

And withholding food as a 'punishment' is not on. I'd also ask to have a look at the nursery's discipline policy. They sound more than a little heavy-handed to me, irrespective of whether or not your DC was 100%.

wonderingsoul Tue 10-Sep-13 09:32:59

sorry but am i the only one who wouldnt punish a 1 year old for not saying thank you?

and to take his dessert away is plain nasty tbf.

tiggytape Tue 10-Sep-13 09:36:27

YANBU and I think you should speak to the manager as this is actually quite serious and should be viewed as such.

It is not appropriate in any setting to use food (or withdrawal of food) for discipline.

Quite apart from making allowances for the fact he was ill, taking away food as a punishment goes against best practice in caring for any child and is absolutely not allowed in a nursery or school setting even with much older children let alone babies.

mercibucket Tue 10-Sep-13 09:39:34

fruit as a punishment!!!

pianodoodle Tue 10-Sep-13 09:45:40

DD is 26 months and does say please and thank you but if she's having a poorly day and crying because of it I'm not going to sit there and say "say thank you" over and over as it would wind her up even more.

I think you need to weigh up situations without being so rigid - sometimes it just isn't worth a battle if there's something more pressing and if the child is pre-occupied and feeling out of sorts it isn't the right time to have a whole barney because they didn't say thank you sad

At this age anyway - i'd be peeved too.

zoobaby Tue 10-Sep-13 09:46:05

Agree with all the comments about using food as a punishment. Fruit is for enjoyment you mean ol' wench. Also, do they get a dessert every day? What's with that?

BuntyPenfold Tue 10-Sep-13 09:47:31

I would be complaining in the strongest terms.

Removing food as a punishment? Atrocious.

The staff concerned need disciplining and training.

pigletmania Tue 10-Sep-13 09:49:29

Yanbu at all he is only a little baby and not a well one at that. I would speak to the manager, this is not on. Well tey would get out of ds 19 months is doo doo doo (he is not speaking as yet)

whogrewoutoftheterribletwos Tue 10-Sep-13 09:54:39

The 'you've seen the real xxx' comment is worrying. You know your own child. If tantrums are out of character and a recent development, coupled with this incident, I would suggest this nursery is not providing your child with a happy, settled environment. He's clearly not happy. Have you though about changing childcare providers?

I'd be pretty livid too.

Under 2.5ish there is a huge variety of verbal skills so way too much to expect under 2s to say anything at all on demand, though obviously you would encourage them as much as possible.
Food should never be removed as a punishment.
Fruit should never be a punishment.

pianodoodle Tue 10-Sep-13 10:14:18

Agree about the verbal skills too - DD has a mix of friends the same age ranging from some who speak in sentences that we can all understand, some that still seem to speak their own language and some that stick to two word phrases!

pigletmania Tue 10-Sep-13 10:19:07

Exactly piano, ds is very bright, his understanding is fantastic and he knows how to open door, climb satires, open pots and creams and turn over reading books, and is a lovely chilled sociable little boy but his verbal ability has not caught up yet!

My DS is the same piglet, 20mths.

He has a few words, but not very clear ones - there is no speech delay he's totally in the range of normal for his age. My DD was the same but also never spoke at all outside of our home until she was closer to 3, people waving biscuits in her face and demanding she say ta just upset her. She is 4.5 now and her speech (and manners!) are excellent.

pigletmania Tue 10-Sep-13 10:34:16

Tewis it's funny my dd 6 has ASD and dev delay and knew the right amount of words she should at 18 months, said please and thank you, but her understanding was just not there, and socially she had difficulties. My ds is te opposite. He was late to walk, 17 monts but suddenly just did it, I think that speech will follow.

Te nursery staff in the op are just unprofessional, ans should not use food as reward or punishment. Even they told op he was out of sorts, so wats all this please and thank you nonsense from a not well toddler hmm

spanky2 Tue 10-Sep-13 10:35:20

Ds2 didn't learn to speak until he was over 2 so I think it is unreasonable to take his pudding away ill or not. I also think they were wrong to put fruit as the punishment pudding. Fruit is not a punishment, well I personally do not enjoy fruit, but punishment pudding...

Gratuitous Tue 10-Sep-13 10:38:32

I would be livid actually, fucked up approach to food, to toddlers and parents all at once. 'The real ds'? Hmmm think they might see the 'real me' during my chat with the manager.

diddl Tue 10-Sep-13 10:38:58

"The colleague apparently said tell mum we have seen 'the real DS today'?! "

That is just awful.

I'm a little bit on the fence as they know he can say thank you, & no one needs a pudding.

But he's only young & obviously out of sorts, so it seems to me that cuddles all the way is all that's appropriate.

"the real ds" when child is clearly poorly?? That is awful.

memder Tue 10-Sep-13 10:42:58

Awful awful awful! YANBU.

pigletmania Tue 10-Sep-13 10:43:44

Of course I teach my Chidren manners, and myself try to demonstrate by example, but punishing a unwell toddler like that is not on!

pigletmania Tue 10-Sep-13 10:45:03

Their approach is just horrid

5madthings Tue 10-Sep-13 10:47:13

Yanbu food shouldn't be used as a punishment and he was clearly not feeling well. Yes manners are important but at that age the key thing is to model them to the child, not insist on it being said, they can't all talk at that age anyway!

Very mean to upset him when he was clearly not feeling well. They recognised he was out if sorts but did nothing to make allowances for him sad

TrueStory Tue 10-Sep-13 10:48:41

Gosh that all sounds pretty nasty, blimey, they're nursery nurses! I would be very upset. Saying about "seeing the real" DS is totally appalling.

As to what you can do now, I don't know, I have no advice there. I would be very unhappy about it though.

p.s. getting a cold can make even rational adults, under-the-weather and emotional.

valiumredhead Tue 10-Sep-13 10:49:17

Oh no, just awful for all the reasons mentioned abovesad

impatienttobemummy Tue 10-Sep-13 13:02:28

Thank you for your replies I am going to write some of your points down so I don't get lost in the heat of the moment, I'm going to call and make an appointment to
Meet the manager as I don't want to be interrupted. Being pregnant I feel like I don't trust my own judgement at the moment so it helps to know I'm not BU.
thanks again

tunnocksteacake Tue 10-Sep-13 13:05:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pixieonthemoor Tue 10-Sep-13 13:52:31

Good on you for making an appointment and good luck with getting your points across. Writing the points down is a good idea of yours. I think it sounds awful - removing pudding for a punishment of fruit sends totally the wrong message. And as for the nastily facetious remark about seeing "the real" ds.......he was an under-the-weather 2yr old fgs.

thebody Tue 10-Sep-13 14:14:41

when I was a cm I wouldn't have dreamed of talking about a mindee like this. I would know if a mindee was poorly and I never used food as any type of punishment.

no no no. really unprofessional I think.

impatienttobemummy Wed 11-Sep-13 13:49:01

Spoke with the owner today she was very apologetic and frankly horrified. Thanks for all of your advice. She is dealing with the staff member and having a team meeting to raise these issues to ensure this never happens again. Feeling better!

Panzee Wed 11-Sep-13 13:51:47

Great news. Hope your son is feeling better today.

Nancy66 Wed 11-Sep-13 13:52:14

The staff sound horrible. I'd be very worried frankly.

valiumredhead Wed 11-Sep-13 13:52:53

Good!

PrincessFlirtyPants Wed 11-Sep-13 14:01:15

Good news, hope your DS is feeling better smile

pigletmania Wed 11-Sep-13 16:37:57

That's fantastic impatient smile

Lilacroses Wed 11-Sep-13 16:49:58

Sorry to hear this OP, yanbu at all. I would've been very upset to hear that if it had been my Dd. 23 months!!!! He is a little toddler! Definitely say something to them.

Lilacroses Wed 11-Sep-13 16:51:13

Sorry, just read your update....good for you! So glad it's being sorted and the manager reacted appropriately.

neunundneunzigluftballons Wed 11-Sep-13 18:18:20

'The real DS' would really bother me. In fact the whole situation would YANBU.

neunundneunzigluftballons Wed 11-Sep-13 18:19:09

Oops I missed to update glad to hear that.

LegoDragon Wed 11-Sep-13 19:41:17

Nice to see a happy update- hope the staff member is dealt with well and your DS has a fun time at nursery in the future!

MrsDibble Wed 11-Sep-13 19:53:30

YANBU. At all. They really shouldn't be behaving like that towards such a young child.

hardboiledpossum Wed 11-Sep-13 20:11:54

Withholding any food, including pudding, is against ousted guidelines. I would be furious even if your ds wasn't ill. At this age you model good language, you don't punish.

hettienne Wed 11-Sep-13 20:17:17

Awful behaviour from the staff. Good manners should be modelled and encouraged, not enforced by punishment.

I don't think punishments have a place in nursery, especially for under 3s. Totally unnecessary and counterproductive.

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