To think what exDH did was very wrong? Very sensitive subject!

(42 Posts)

Sorry for the topic and I hope it doesn't upset anybody.

I have been thinking about this a lot since talking to exH on Saturday and wanted the opinion of others.

ExH has been accused of rape. The story he told me initially was that he was in the pub and someone he had previously had a brief relationship with was very drunk. He said he walked her home and left her there, nothing happened. After he left supposedly she was sending coherent messages to a friend of his.

The story has now changed to them having a "play" she then passed out so he went home but the didn't have full sex. He says she was texting a friend but I don't know how long after him leaving.

AIBU to think that even if he hadn't had sex with this woman he really shouldn't have been doing anything with her if she was so drunk that she passed out?! It is actually making me feel quite angry the way him, and his mum, are making out that he is completely innocent!

Sorry again if this is in anyway upsetting. The only person I have to speak about this to in RL hates him so is never unbiased.

ceebie Mon 02-Sep-13 13:49:44

Why are you even getting involved?

Fairenuff Mon 02-Sep-13 13:52:28

How was she texting after he left if she passed out?

His story doesn't add up.

ceebie Mon 02-Sep-13 13:55:55

Do you have children with your exH? If not, then just steer clear and don't get involved in any way.

I get the impression you still have feelings for him?

meditrina Mon 02-Sep-13 14:01:38

As he's your XH, then you can (and should) stand well clear.

You do not mention DC, so at least you do not have to remain in touch with him nor support them whilst the investigative and possible judicial procedures are ongoing.

I had stayed completely out of it until he told me about this on Saturday, we were at a family function and he was playing doting dad!

Supposedly he has proof that he didn't do anything wrong and that proof is the text messages she sent.

I wont ask him as i don't want to get involved but I found it very difficult to be civil when he picked up the DC earlier.

He was in a relationship with someone else when this happened and has been feeling very sorry for himself ever since. He has phoned me up crying and I think he tried to commit suicide.

I just feel so angry!

TattyDevine Mon 02-Sep-13 14:02:38

If she has children with him then an accusation of this nature cannot help but affect her, however if not I agree she should not get involved and even if she does she should keep an arms length the situation before more facts have been established.

On that note its really hard to comment because its sketchy however, in general I think a gentleman or even just a decent bloke will not get involved physically with a really drunk woman, he can see her home and hopefully not put himself at getting accused of anything, but he should give her a peck on the cheek and call her the next morning if he's interested in getting physically or romantically involved, 12 hours is not long to wait if she is genuinely interested!

TattyDevine Mon 02-Sep-13 14:03:45

The text messages are not proof in an evidence sense, in court for instance, as they could have been sent by him if she was passed out having just been raped by him. Hopefully this is not the case but you can see how it doesn't exactly clear him.

Trills Mon 02-Sep-13 14:04:06

Unless you have any reason to think otherwise it sounds like:

1 - he went back to a woman's house (none of your business, perfectly reasonable thing to do)
2 - they had a sexual-ish encounter (also none of your business, also perfectly reasonable behaviour)
3 - then she was too drunk to carry on, so he left (also none of your business, also the correct thing to do)

You are reading far too much into the phrase "passed out". It could simply mean "was very tired and drunk so wanted to go to sleep".

Unless there is more to the story, there is nothing here that you should concern yourself with, or even that you should particularly be aware of. He is your ex. His love life is none of your concern.

meditrina Mon 02-Sep-13 14:08:01

My apologies, as there was no mention of DC at all in OP, I had assumed there were none.

Are you asking for ideas about how to support DC when a parent is accused of a crime? Or did you want this to be more about where the lines of criminality lie, and whether drunken consent can ever be reasonably relied upon?

TattyDevine Mon 02-Sep-13 14:08:32

Its unpopular on Mumsnet to say I think women should attempt to not put themselves at further risk of rape than they already are (sharing a world with some men who are rapists) but I equally think men should not put themselves at risk of being accused of rape - this includes behaving appropriately in situations where consent may be questionable.

WilsonFrickett Mon 02-Sep-13 14:10:18

Apart from the bit where he is being accused of raping her though Trills. Which, as he is the father of the OP's children, means it's something the OP is rightly worried about. Although I agree she shouldn't get involved.

TheGirlFromIpanema Mon 02-Sep-13 14:11:46

If the father of my dc had been accused of rape it would most certainly be my business imo.

Op say he also 'changed his story' when explaining his position to her.

I'd be wary OP. Imho sex offenders do not make great dads.

Trills did you miss the point that he had been accused of rape... Is it different if someone is only asleep then rather than medically passed out?? And WTF is with 'his love life' shock

#I believe her.

Your right I just need to forget about it. He said the police will let him know in a week or so whether changes will be pressed and then if things don't go we'll I will pick up the pieces for our DDs.

By the way I have no interested in his sex life at all. We split up 3 years ago and he has been with numerous women since, and apart from when he feels the need to tell me, I really don't care.

ashleysilver Mon 02-Sep-13 14:16:07

Has he been accused of rape as in questioned by the police?

As they say on mn, he is your ex for a reason. Stay well away from this mess.

TheGirlFromIpanema Mon 02-Sep-13 14:17:25

I don't advocate you forget about it at all OP!!

Would you forget about it if one of their teachers was accused of rape?

Are you aware that even if charges are not pressed that in no way indicates his innocence? Like I said, I'd be wary.

The bit that stood out for me was how he told you one thing, then another.

Big.Red.Flag.

Onesleeptillwembley Mon 02-Sep-13 14:20:42

The fact he's changed his story quite a lot would make me doubt him now.

The DC are 5 and 2 so completely oblivious at the moment but obviously if he were to be found guilty I would have to deal with it at that point.

He has told me that he has spoken to the police and they were going to let him know what is happening soon. I try and speak to him as little as possible to be honest as he has a way of causing more stress than it is worth.

ceebie Mon 02-Sep-13 14:36:59

Next time he phones up crying or tries to tell you about his love/sex life, tell him it would be more appropriate for him to discss it with his friends.

He keeps saying we are still friends and thinks I'm joking when I say no. After it happened he asked if he could come and sleep here, obviously the answer was no!

Fairenuff Mon 02-Sep-13 14:41:31

I think you are right to be concerned. This is nothing to do with his sex life. It's about the father of your children being accused of rape and it absolutely is your business.

Do not attempt to 'support' him though, OP, or respond to his emotional blackmail. What kind of access does he have to the children. If he is emotionally unstable it might be best if he doesn't have them on his own at the moment.

kickassangel Mon 02-Sep-13 14:41:49

The figures of false rape claims vary dramatically, but the one that seems to be seen as close to accurate is less than 2%. In other words, of rape claims taken to the police, less than 2% are false. So there is a 98% chance that he did rape her.

Of course, it doesn't mean that he will be prosecuted or convicted, but be very aware of how he is twisting this.

There is a diagram which is called The Saddest Graph You'll See Today which shows how the figures work. It is fromUS federal figures, and UK ones are seen to be almost identical, so it's a reliable source.

I'm so sorry, but I think you have every right to be alarmed by this. And of course it is your business if you still have contact with him and have children.

Trills Mon 02-Sep-13 14:44:04

I totally forgot in my post that you said at the top that he had been accused of rape, I got distracted by you relating so many details of his evening and wondering why you were talking to him in so much detail about it.

He has the DC one day a week for 7 hours which will reduce to 3.5 hours when they are back at school.

Thrills we were at a wedding with his family and the conversation took place while walking from the coach to the reception venue so not very long.

My exMIL has mentioned it to me in the past as well, without me asking.

Sorry that should be trills.

TattyDevine Mon 02-Sep-13 14:52:34

Very useful and informative post Kickassangel, gives the OP some decent food for thought there. Gosh, bit of an eye opener that!

Fairenuff Mon 02-Sep-13 14:52:55

If he has said that he feels suicidal, do you think you should stop him having the dcs until he is more stable?

Trills Mon 02-Sep-13 14:54:31

Anyway, I apologise for saying "none of your business", of course the father of your children being accused of a serious crime is your business.

As we are not together anymore it doesn't feel like my business plus I didn't mention the DC so it is crossed wires I think.

TheGirlFromIpanema Mon 02-Sep-13 15:01:57

OP, I know a few anecdotes do not make data but be aware that he may try to make friends with you at this time. Several victims I have met with recently have said that their rapist had returned to his ex/family fold after the allegations became charges.
I've pondered if defence solicitors suggest they recruit woman as potential character witnesses but don't know this as fact. Just a hunch from cases I've seen.

TheGirlFromIpanema Mon 02-Sep-13 15:02:49

You didn't mention DC OP, but your NN is a giveaway grin

And when I say he has tried committing suicide he has a couple of knife wounds on his throat that he is being really vague about and his exMIL said he had done something stupid.

He has phoned me a few times when a relationship has ended and said he was going to end it so I don't really take it seriously anymore.

After our relationship he should know he wouldn't get a good character witness from me.

He isn't a very nice person in general, a very spoilt alcohol dependent person who likes to get his own way. From experience he does tend to take things too far.

Fairenuff Mon 02-Sep-13 15:13:39

Sorry to labour the point, OP, but even though you don't take his suicidal threats seriously anymore, are you really ok leaving your children with him whilst he is in this emotional frame of mind?

Fairenuff I am never happy leaving them with him but he is there dad and as I have read on here numerous times they have a right to know him. I will keep an eye on the citation though and take measures it required.

Fairenuff Mon 02-Sep-13 15:46:22

I'm not saying he can't see them, just not on his own, and just for this period of time that he is unstable.

You have said that he had knife marks at his throat and has expressed a desire to at least self harm. Surely he cannot be trusted with the care of two small children at this time?

Do you need him to have them, is there anyone else who could have them instead for that one day?

kickassangel Mon 02-Sep-13 15:54:41

Can you afford to get some legal advice? Would his mum be able to supervise visits?

I think you should investigate some practical ideas for keeping your girls safe. From here it all looks quite alarming: alcoholic, self harming, potential rapist.

Not someone that most of us would choose to leave young children with.

Ad don't be alone with him somewhere private. It does sound like he returns to you and expects you to give him emotional support. What will he do if he doesn't think you support him enough?

Dayshiftdoris Mon 02-Sep-13 18:30:22

Ok....

What I am going to say might be a bit... Well uncomfortable.

But if he's been accused of rape then shouldn't he be having only supervised contact?

I am just thinking how you would look OP should he be charged / convicted having allowed him to continue contact unsupervised... I think now is the point that you seek some advice on this, perhaps try the NSPCC.

This rape allegation, which you are hearing more and more about, his alcohol dependency and his current mental state are all ringing massive alarm bells for me. Personally one of those situations on their would make me re-evaluate the contact, never mind all three...

Dayshiftdoris Mon 02-Sep-13 18:31:14

Ah I am not alone and have x-posted with others.

AnyFucker Mon 02-Sep-13 18:37:56

he has unsupervised access to your children ?

is that a good idea ?

he is an alcohol dependent who regularly attempts suicide and has a rape accusation hanging over his head ?

is this child contact court-ordered ? I would be stopping it right now (and probably wouldn't have allowed it in the first place, tbh). He sounds like the least likely person to safe around children unsupervised

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