to listen to Jamie Oliver on Radio 4 and want to throw things...........

(1000 Posts)
catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 10:06:40

He's not really doing himself any favours is he?

hiddenhome Mon 02-Sep-13 10:08:19

What did he say?

LumpySpace Mon 02-Sep-13 10:11:44

What go on?

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 10:12:07

More on Jamie Oliver. Boy, he really rankles the MN'ers doesn't he?

What indeed did he say?

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 10:18:37

Going on about people in poverty wearing designer clothes and having electronic gadgets.....

and he has JUST said something along the lines of ' it hasn't been easy for me the last few years, i know people think i'm rich'

He hasn't got a blimming clue about poverty..he shouldn't pretend he has...

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 10:21:21

He ought to hire someone poor & downtrodden to deliver his message without impunity.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 10:21:51

With impunity.

toomanycourgettes Mon 02-Sep-13 10:22:17

I'm listening and agreeing with 98% of what he is saying. We need to stop making excuses for some people's laziness and attitudes. And before anyone kicks off, yes, we need to make sure wealthy people and big corporations pay their share.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 10:25:43

I think he is absolutely right about the people who seem to have convinced themselves that it's cheaper to eat takeaways than it is to make something healthy at home.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 10:25:46

He doesn't help himself.

He is rich.

He may have all sorts of difficulties too, but money isn't one of them. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 10:26:18

I'm listening and agreeing with 98% of what he is saying. We need to stop making excuses for some people's laziness and attitudes. And before anyone kicks off, yes, we need to make sure wealthy people and big corporations pay their share.

Yes. There's a lot of people down on corporate tax avoidance, bank bailouts, etc (I agree) without recognizing this Britain is in a mess not only for this reason but also for a host of cultural issues.

sparklingsea Mon 02-Sep-13 10:26:51

I am listening to him now, he isn't just talking about people in poverty wearing designer cloths and having electronic gadgets, I think he is talking a lot of sense and sick of the bashing he gets.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 10:27:52

I can see both sides with all the anger he has caused over the last week or so. I understand that chips etc are a cheap, filling, warming way of getting food into your children. I understand that 'massive TVs' are actually quite standard now and hardly count as luxury goods anymore.

On the other hand.....

'We need to stop making excuses for some people's laziness and attitudes'

Completely agree with this.

Someone has to start telling the truth about the state of many children's diets in this country. I work with young children and I regularly see children who are either seriously overweight, or desperately unhealthy looking. Virtually every child I see in a buggy is eating crisps or high-fat snacks of some sort. This is a huge issue, seriously frightening, and some has to start telling some hard truths about it. I know JO can be very annoying and doesn't always do himself a lot of favours with how he phrases things, but I do admire him for sticking his head above the parapet on this issue.

WantedGSOH Mon 02-Sep-13 10:29:11

I'm afraid I think there's huge chippiness about success on mumsnet which I don't understand.

I understabd that Jamie Oliver thinks:

Schools should feed children better & more healthily.
Schools should educate children about food.
It's possible to eat well with less money, and should be a priority.
It's possible to cook from fresh without it taking hours.
Some British teenagers have a sense of entitlement, & that they need to understand that success follows hard work.
If people want to spend lots of money on food that's up to them.

Those things seem pretty straightforward & good to me.

I'm confused about why people are so angry with Jamie. He has made money - so what? He's also enabled others to earn money, pay tax etc.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 10:31:12

tommy i agree with what he says about work ethic etc.

But i really struggle with his attitude towards the choices people in poverty are making.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 10:36:10

I'm not angry with Jamie Oliver making money. He has done some great stuff, i just think that starting on the...

'they are wearing designer clothes/having plasma screen t.v's' but don't know how to cook is a really ropey argument to wheel out. It is also ill informed.

Food poverty is much more complex than those simple choices and the organisations he associates with (big supermarkets) (well one anyway!) are part of the problem.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 10:42:15

wanted - I'm not chippy about him making money.

There are a fair few posters on MN I can think of who're clearly pretty rich too, but manage to make you feel inspired, and also make it clear they know that they are well off (pagwatch springs to mind). JO gets me down because he comes across as if he doesn't actually realize how much richer he is than most people. The webchat thread where it transpired that his idea of a meal 'budget' was an amount most people thought was generous was pretty telling.

If he were an ordinary bloke on the street, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and I'm sure he thinks he's just stating his mind. But he has a platform, like it or not, so I think he should take more responsibility.

Yakky Mon 02-Sep-13 10:56:42

I listened to him too and I'm sort of 50/50.
It's great telling people how cooking from scratch is cheaper and healthier, but if the DCs refuse to eat your healthy meals, then it just gets thrown away.
I am making a Shep Pie today from scratch. I know that my lot will pull faces, push it round the plate then leave the majority of it.
So I will end up wasting money when I could have made burger and chips and watched them scoff the lot.

limitedperiodonly Mon 02-Sep-13 11:00:05

We need to stop making excuses for some people's laziness and attitudes

Don't fret pet. There's no shortage of people eager to condemn the idle and feckless.

WantedGSOH Mon 02-Sep-13 11:09:14

Limited... Those people may feel that they are entitled to condemn the idle & feckless because it is only possible to be idle & feckless at somebody else's expense - unless you have pots of cash of course! <dreams>

I understand that JO is making his point simply & of course I totally get that supermarkets are pretty cynical & ruthless about manipulating the markets to make as much money as possible, I'm married to a farmer so have a healthy dislike for certain supermarkets!

However I do think his points are sensible & I don't think the fact that he has himself been successful makes them less so.

encyclogirl Mon 02-Sep-13 11:11:34

What happened to the webchat? Is it still here? I'd like to have a read of it.

I'm a bit torn on the this issue. Of course there is value in learning to cook from scratch for anyone struggling with a food budget, but why does it always have to come with a side order of Plasma screens and iphones?

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 11:11:58

Are these the idle and feckless who work for minimum wage? Those are usually the idle and feckless people target, the ones who take all our benefits and spend them on crap like bringing up children and paying their rent.

WantedGSOH Mon 02-Sep-13 11:18:40

confused

Idle & feckless people are idle & feckless people...

People who work hard are people who work hard...

VenusRising Mon 02-Sep-13 11:21:53

I agree with Jamie, but I also think that it's difficult to feed children fresh, healthy food when everyone's rushed for time.

We cook a lot of fish as it's so quick, and have never had a take away!
However, I chose to work pt so I can spend some time looking after meal plans, shopping and cooking healthily. That's my choice and my salary is half because of it. It works at the moment, but I miss the money!

This weekend I cooked three days dinners, and we'll have steamed vegetables with omelettes and then salmon on the other two nights, my DH does those, as I'm out at uni doing a professional development course.

It does take a bit of planning, and that is difficult if you're not sleeping well, and have a long commute, are a lone parent working ft, have kids with multiple food allergies / sensitivities etc.

limitedperiodonly Mon 02-Sep-13 11:22:43

However I do think his points are sensible & I don't think the fact that he has himself been successful makes them less so.

I have no problem with Jamie Oliver's wealth. My problem is with his political and social views and the wearying regularity with which he trots them out for an eager audience whenever he has something to flog.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 11:24:20

wanted - sorry, my point was meant to be, an awful lot of people who are going to feel targeted by this sort of stuff aren't people who don't work at all, but people who do, and still struggle for money. It's always the way when you start deciding there are 'deserving poor' and 'underserving poor', IMO.

sooperdooper Mon 02-Sep-13 11:25:27

I think a lot of what he's saying makes sense, peo

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 11:26:36

Oh I heard this too. His way of expressing himself is clumsy and he doesn't endear himself to anyone!

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 11:27:03

He needs a PR advisor

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:30:11

I think he endears himself to a lot of people.

it's also a complete myth that healthy food is time-consuming to prepare.

Tin of sardines on toast - how long does that take?

limitedperiodonly Mon 02-Sep-13 11:31:02

He doesn't lottie. His message goes down a treat with the people who buy his stuff and he knows it.

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:32:44

I'd hardly count sardines on toast as a 'healthy' meal and it's not one I'd eat nor would I give it to DS (fish bones?)

LifeofPo Mon 02-Sep-13 11:32:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 11:33:56

He's a rent a gob. Needs to shut up and good rather than flapping his chops at every turn.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:35:44

Sardines are very healthy. It was just an example. There are dozens of meals that are quick, easy and healthy.

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 11:39:28

grin expat

Dawndonnaagain Mon 02-Sep-13 11:39:39

Sardines on toast are a quick healthy lunchtime/teatime meal, even tinned ones.
Personally, I think we need to go back to proper home economic lessons in school. My children have just moved into sixth form. Their home economics lessons went on until year three. They learnt to make scones. Four different ways. They learnt to make pizza base/pizzas. That was it. We regularly have baking days at home, and the amount of kids I have over that have never cooked anything from scratch is phenomenal. The saddest was last year, two kids over, one open mouthed in the kitchen as I cooked a fish pie, she had only had one from the microwave at home. The other watching out of the window where I'd sent ds to grab some potatoes from the garden. Didn't have a clue that potatoes came from the ground.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:40:39

'There are dozens of meals that are quick, easy and healthy'

This is very true, although you do need some basic cooking skills in order to make them, which a lot of people don't have. It is shocking that there are adults in this country who have never learned to cook anything from scratch. I totally agree that basic cooking skills and an understanding of nutrition should be taught in schools, although saying that I'm aware that schools have ever more demands piled on top of them!

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 11:41:26

He admitted that people on low incomes could not afford his products - it all seems rather crass to me.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:45:13

Lotta - yes, I agree with that.

I have a family member who works with young, single mothers and she says that most of them would not have a clue how to cook a baked potato.

Tingalingle Mon 02-Sep-13 11:46:24

Yakky, just a thought (I have two easy-feeders and a picky one): could you make a small shepherd's pie, but make burgers and potato wedges out of some of the mince and spuds -- exactly the same ingredients differently shaped?

I am the first to admit this doesn't work if you are spinning out the mince with lentils, carrots and random veg from the fridge drawer...

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 11:46:32

they cant afford his books either

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:48:00

They can watch the telly show though.

Mutley77 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:48:54

I use convenience food at least a coupe of times per week and also buy the kids the odd McD's (maybe once a month) - although I probably will stop that now I have heard the latest about what's in the burgers so can't plead ignorance!!

I feel generally quite lucky in terms of finances etc and at the moment I am at home full-time. But I have a newborn, no paid or other help (just re-located six months ago), and not much sleep. Therefore if my kids are happy and reasonably well nourished I have to leave it at that really - there are other things that are more important IMO - eg my sanity (kids won't be as well off if mummy is totally losing the plot rather than only slightly losing it!). I think money does have something to do with it as well as the cost of the food, you need to factor in the cost of the time - if you can pay someone else to help (not necessarily with the cooking) or afford to work less hours - it makes a big difference.

If my budget was unlimited, my baby was a bit older and more self-sufficient, and I had a cleaner etc I would love to buy and cook fresh lovely different meals all the time but I can't manage it.

I do make sure the kids have their five a day. Breakfast is always healthy cereal or toast (ocassionally) and fruit. I also do a reasonably healthy packed lunch for them - but do include a biscuit or popcorn. I try and make snacks healthy but they do have biscuits, icecreams etc as well.

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 11:49:04

I'm not disagreeing that there are loads of quick easy and healthy meals but I wouldn't count sardines on toast as one especially not for my family.
It's not got all the food groups for one. I suppose it depends on what you count as quick. For me 30 mins is quick enough and there are loads that you can do in 30 mins so long as you organise yourself

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:50:04

I agree with what you're saying, Lotta regarding people not having cooking skills. However almost everyone in the country has access to the Internet and/or a library.

I agree that not everyone is capable of learning how to cook on thier own, but A LOT are.

As nancy says sardines on toast/ with pasta and some veg is a healthy cheap meal. There are many other 'basic' cheap, healthy meals. I think JO is trying to say (badly) that people need to stop making excuses, that many people can decide to feed yourself and family healthier and cheaper. He's also said his book is not for people on a very very tight budget.

And I'll say again, not everyone is capable or able to learn to cook, but many are.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:53:46

Mutely, yes things are a lot easier when you don't have a new baby, but I just want to point out that you don't need a cleaner in order to cook healthy meals for your family, you really don't. smile

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 11:54:14

His products are too expensive for most.

His recipes & ideas are accessible to many.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 11:54:59

He was dreadful on Woman's Hour. I think that, um, I think that, um.... I was misquoted, but I spent loadsamoney on stuff for a school and they all had iPhones... And I like women, 'I've got loads of em'.

LifeofPo Mon 02-Sep-13 11:55:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:57:23

'I agree with what you're saying, Lotta regarding people not having cooking skills. However almost everyone in the country has access to the Internet and/or a library. '

You're right ExcuseTypos. We do need to cut through the excuses and learned helplessness. And if it's not a parent's responsibility to do everything they can to make sure that their child grows up healthy, then whose is it?

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 11:59:34

If it's the parents' responsibility, why does Jamie think he has the right or the factual knowledge to start mouthing off about it?

And if he's a business man and answerable only to the question of whether something is profitable, fine: he shouldn't pretend there's some sort of altruistic motive behind it, then!

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:59:41

That's a bit mean TheOrigional. No, he's not the most eloquent speaker but you're picking phrases out of context. He actually said he employed 7000 women and if he had the choice of only ever employ on men or women, he would choose women every time.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:01:12

Yes, and he actually said he liked women and he had some, too. He said both those things.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 12:01:41

'If it's the parents' responsibility, why does Jamie think he has the right or the factual knowledge to start mouthing off about it? '

Because lots of parents are not stepping up! And he does know a hell of a lot more about this subject than most

I think it's possible to be a business person and to aim to maximise your profits but also to care about other people and want to behave ethically.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:01:45

"I'd hardly count sardines on toast as a 'healthy' meal"

People's reluctance to cook and eat cheap, healthy oily fish is a constant source of wonder to me. Last week I did a meal for four for about two quid because Waitrose (!) were selling herring which, to their financial detriment, they had gutted in advance but were selling at the ungutted price. I bought four to cook there and then and another four to freeze. When I wandered past at the end of my shop I noticed they had sold precisely none more.

Supermarket fish counters routinely have piles of mackerel, sardines and similar which are dirt cheap but which again, very few people are willing to deal with. Nine times out of ten a supermarket fish counter will gut and fillet them for you, but even if they won't, it's hardly a taxing job. You then get all the "but my kids won't eat it" crap, which is only true because people then cook them something else.

And tinned sardines are the cupboard staple of the Gods: mix with sliced peppers and cold pasta for a salad, add a can of tinned tomatoes and top with bread crumbs to make a bake, etc, etc, etc.

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:21

'So what if folk can't afford his products, he is a business man, some of you are being deliberately dense about the issues he raised.'

Er, no. The point is that it's quite ironic that he markets products that he acknowledges are not aimed at the very people he criticises because of how they choose to feed their children. As someone up thread says, the issue of what people feed their children and what they eat themselves is a complex one.

If he wants to make crass comments which show very little insight about different people from different socioeconomic backgrounds then he can expect to get a grilling about it.

KoalaFace Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:29

Huge TVs and gadgets are made easier to get hold of with awful stores like Bright House. There's very little aimed at struggling families to make it easier to buy fruit, veg and fresh meat.

Frozen pizzas, chips and the like can be shockingly cheap. It takes practice and thought and preparation time to make healthy food that is as cheap as those unhealthy options. If that is what Jamie Oliver is trying to promote then very good. But the TV thing is irrelevant.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:44

It just pisses me off that on one hand 'the poor' are exploited and on the other are blamed and beaten with a big stick.

Anyone who wants to criticise someone’s choices ought to go and move to a sprawling suburban housing development, with no transport, over inflated fuel costs on a key metre, a few hostile neighbours, a crappy over priced 'one stop shop' selling a bag of manky potatoes for £2.50, mass unemployment, a local chippy and try and live off £80.00 per week?

And we are going to complain about someone having a big telly and item of clothes that they feel nice in? So should we expect 'the poor' to walk miles and miles to the shops in their sack cloths and carry back heavy bags of fresh produce purchased affordably from the (not very) local market?

What is the point in blaming people and finger pointing.

I'm bloody grateful every day that i can afford to whack the oven on and cook a lasagne from scratch and chuck in a batch of cakes or two while i'm at it...................... To be in a position to do that and criticise people for their choices when they have so many less is really sadly quite ignorant.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:05:10

He knows fuck-all about actual poverty, and it's offensive of him to speak as though he does. He knows a lot about nice food, I'm sure, and how to source it etc etc, but he does not know about the issues he's whipping up a Daily Mail frenzy about.

And Lottie, I agree entirely with everything in your post.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 12:06:40

'You then get all the "but my kids won't eat it" crap, which is only true because people then cook them something else. '

<applauds>

There's also a surprising number of adults who are seriously resistant to trying any new foods. One of the Children's Centres where I work ran a drop-in session during the summer, where children could get involved in making healthy veg dips. All the food was provided for free and parents and children made the dips together. All lovely jubbly until it came to actually eating the dips! All parents refused and of course all the children did too hmm

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 12:07:22

I agree catinabox.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 12:11:27

What Catinabox said.

It's all very well him criticising but he has no idea about the daily reality of poverty.

limitedperiodonly Mon 02-Sep-13 12:11:37

So should we expect 'the poor' to walk miles and miles to the shops in their sack cloths and carry back heavy bags of fresh produce purchased affordably from the (not very) local market?

I think you've just hit on an idea for Jamie's next programme.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:11:56

I can recognize what you're talking about with the dips Lotta, but the answer isn't to lambast those parents for the TV or the phone they've got, surely? To be honest, I wouldn't much care for a healthy veg dip myself, but because I'm not poor, that's somehow acceptable....

And I can think of lots what I think of as 'reverse Little Red Hen' scenarios with my kids: ie., everyone enjoys the baking or the cooking, but no-one ends up wanting to eat what's made!

I think then either you look into making things that will go down better (and it doesn't have to be cheesy chips!), or you ask people what they'd like to make, or you try again.... you don't just make sweeping JO statements about how there's no poverty etc.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:17:13

But are there really people who live on estates that are so isolated that they don't have a supermarket within a 30 minute walk? that there's not a bus they can catch to a shopping centre or market?

As you say the 7-11 type shops they have access to will be massively over-charging.

Is a supermarket delivery done online not an option?

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 12:17:18

He's a chef who is out to sell books and line his purse however he can. He's not doing anything for altruistic reasons. LOL. Why take him seriously? He's a slack-jawed, motorised garden tool spraffing off his fat gob. Shut up and cook, Jamie.

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:01

'But are there really people who live on estates that are so isolated that they don't have a supermarket within a 30 minute walk? '

Yes. I lived in one. And they didn't deliver to that postcode. Surprise, surprise!

Now we live in a rural location where the nearest supermarket is a 2.5 mile walk, the bus costs £4 return and no, they don't offer delivery.

That's more common than you'd think, too.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:05

"Anyone who wants to criticise someone’s choices ought to go and move to a sprawling suburban housing development, "

I live about four hundred yards from a large council estate that is routinely listed as one of the most deprived in Britain. At least in other parts of the city there's a drug economy; this doesn't even have that. Massive levels of unemployment and (particularly) incapacity benefit, in a post-industrial, ageing white community. Between me and the estate there is a large Sainsbury's, which is pretty decent, decent enough to do a middle class weekly shop if you can't be bothered to go over to Waitrose. Nonetheless, you can watch people filling their trolleys with complete and utter shit, and expensive shit at that. The "oh, food desert" argument simply doesn't apply: they're in a large, modern, fully stocked Sainsburys, and still buying overpriced crap.

But I used to work in another area of the city which is getting on for as deprived, but is probably 80% BME, mostly Bangladeshi and Pakistani. The shops over there were a delight, and people were buying (and presumably cooking) healthy, interesting meals. I used to buy big bags of urad and handfuls of mysteriously vegetables I didn't quite recognise. Even the Asda in the area was worth visiting, and trolleys were full to the brim with healthy ingredients.

So I think the claim that it's about poverty and food deserts may have some mileage, but the legacy of Thatcher as education secretary in the 1970s de-emphasising "Domestic Science" so that we now have two generations who have not been taught to cook has had a pretty catastrophic effect. There's a very depressing thread over on MSE at the moment from a mother who has, it would appear, never cooked and has no idea where to start.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:11

When you're skint, you're much more likely to shop day-to-day, aren't you? The poorer we've been, the less likely to be able to do 'big shops', I know.

AppleYumYum Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:31

I really admire him, he isn't perfect and he isn't polished, he tries hard and has done more than many others to try to change the state of things, give him a break.

No one likes hearing that they are feeding their kids crap, but parents need to realise that it is a long term game here. It might seem fine today, it was cheap and they were tired or in a hurry... but the child becomes obese, they are teased, it is hard to shift the weight, they have no cooking skills or taste for healthy things, they end up unwell as adults, stress on the NHS system, if they have children they feed them the same stuff as it is all they know and the cycle continues.

I got the impression he had been caught off-guard by the way the show progressed, or that Jane Garvey had thrown in some extra bits he wasn't expecting.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:23:13

I do agree that Food Tech in schools is awful - now there's a campaign I could get behind.

Put some tomato puree and a chopped onion on a bread roll, add sprinkle of cheese - hey presto, Quick 'n' Easy Pizza! Pour tinned fruit on sliced pre-bought cake, pour carton of custard on fruit - hey presto, Quick 'n' Easy Trifle!

Teach them how you know when chicken is cooked enough not to kill you, and how to make an acceptable pasta sauce. Not all this 'design your own healthy scone' bollocks.

bigkidsdidit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:26:00

I agree with most of what e says.

I am always surprised that on mumsnet, a site with a mostly educated, fairly well off readership, the majority of posters on lunchbox threads say they give their small children crisps and chocolate every day. And claim it is all part of a 'balanced diet'. Actually that is NOT a balanced diet and we have lost sight of what we should be eating in this country, I think, and how cheap it can be.

We eat (toddler and all) sardines on toast often here. Mixed with cream cheese and cucumber on the side. They're delicious!

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 12:26:03

'Teach them how you know when chicken is cooked enough not to kill you, and how to make an acceptable pasta sauce'

Cooked enough not to kill you is just how I like my chicken! grin You're right though - teach them 10 or 12 meals that you can make in 30 minutes for not much money using fresh ingredients and with no outrageously fancy cooking techniques.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 12:26:50

Buses are expensive Nancy

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:33:56

"Yes. I lived in one. And they didn't deliver to that postcode. Surprise, surprise!"

But that's not true universally. I've just looked up a random postcode in the most deprived ward in this city, amongst the most deprived wards in the country. All the major supermarkets deliver, including Ocado.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:33:58

Expat - that's fair enough, thanks.

Twisty - yes, buses can be expensive but when you take into account the local shop that's charging you £2 for a loaf of bread or £1 for a pint of milk it probably evens out

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 12:34:38

There is no way that lack of access to good groceries or shops can account for the way that huge numbers of kids are eating in this country.

I live in walking distance to North End Rd which has a fairly famous daily fruit and vegetable market, as well as scores of diverse African/middle eastern/asian shops that have fresh everything - and the Iceland, set in the middle of all of this, is always heaving. It's a typical Iceland customer base, and they are buying frozen rice, frozen potatoes, vegetables, pies - everything frozen. Queues so hideous I rarely get through one, I almost always defect.

People who can't shop through isolation are not really the reason that this country is in the midst of an epidemic.

He's just saying uncomfortable truths. The health and nutrition of your children should've your top priority. For a lot of families it isn't, despite the excuses. Parents make a conscious choice to feed their kids crap.

So flame me.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:36:49

What are the people in deprived areas whingeing about then, if Ocado deliver! confused

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 12:39:33

A lot of people in poverty can't afford to do an online food shop because of ridiculous 'ghost' payments that send them overdrawn and the fact that you have to spend over a certain amount in the first place.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:42:09

Again: when you're skint, you very rarely make the economies of scale possible by doing weekly/monthly shops. You shop day to day. This is why there are savings plans for Christmas shopping (farepak?) - because you can't just go in December and do it all at once, any more than you can go and do a big shop in a supermarket every Saturday and spend £80-100: even if that would save you money in the longer term!

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 12:43:20

It's cheaper to eat crap than home cooked food made with fresh ingredients. FACT.

For a family of 4 you need to be able to spend at least 35 quid a week on food to avoid mwave meal hell, and about 45 quid a week to get fresh ingredients for cooking.

If JO and his supermarket sponsors actually want to help (rather than just mouthing off) they should sell fresh ingredients cheaper. FACT.

MrsDeVere Mon 02-Sep-13 12:43:28

I listened to him.
He is more chippy than the chippiest of chippy mumnetters.

He doesn't like to be challenged at all.

He may well have some good points but he puts them across in an arrogant and ill informed way.

No excuse. He has the power and money to sort out his PR. He just doesn't think he needs to because he is RIGHT.

All that guff about women hmm

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 12:45:13

I don't always buy the i don't have the time arguement when it comes to cooking because so many people have plenty of time for other things such as MN, Facebook, the internet in general.

Some people enjoy cooking and it's a pleasure, some don't like it and find it a chore and some are inbetween. However, surely every parent has a responsibilty to prepare and feed their children the best food they can afford, even if it means you go without some luxury items or downgrade in something elsewhere. Is that not what Jamie is saying?

Friday16 was right i saying trollies are filled to the brim full of shite in supermarkets (apparently stacks of crisps, chocolate bars and fizzy drinks are essential items) and if you took them out of the trolly and put in proper ingriedients to make meals with the bill would be the same if not cheeaper. The junk is okay sometimes but not if people are forfeiting decent healthy food in order to buy it. Healthy food is cheaper to buy then junk.

Most people have the internet nowadays, on the internet is thousands of recipes of all kinds, youtube and the like do videos on how to cook certain dishes, delia started a FREE cookery course online, the library has free books on cooking, some childrens centres run courses on cooking/healthy eating etc. It's everywhere and it's about helping yourselves with the resources out there instead of using the same old lines of "i can't afford to eat healthy food" and have no time when actually if you can afford to eat expensive^unhealthy^food then you could afford to eat healthy food also. I agree schools should be doing decent cooking lessons also to help things.

LifeofPo Mon 02-Sep-13 12:45:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsDeVere Mon 02-Sep-13 12:45:33

original I remember thread on here expressing utter amazement that anyone would be silly enough o use those saving schemes.

Why oh why when you could just put some money aside and then go to the fabulous local produce market instead hmm

Some people just don't have a scooby. JO is one of them.

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 12:46:24

I thought the same MrsDeVere. And yes it's so true that if you're broke you have to shop day to day.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 12:46:49

But are there really people who live on estates that are so isolated that they don't have a supermarket within a 30 minute walk? that there's not a bus they can catch to a shopping centre or market?

Yes there are. And if there was a supermarket within a 30 minute walk how practical would it be for a parent with young children to make this trip and carry a load of heavy stuff home? Yes possible but bloody demoralising in the rain when people are driving past in their nice warm cars. I wouldn't want to face that regularly.

Briliant post friday you are right, it is complex. There are studies on food deserts and the findings are very much that they contribute to poor health, and food poverty. The government actually stated this in a study undertaken about tesco growth. (Please god don't anyone make me find this!)

But what you say about sainsburys etc in your local area, that is a fair comment but if you live a long way from the supermarket, dont have transport buying fresh produce is not going to be cost effective if you are doing a fortnightly shop when the money comes in. Also sainsburys are REALLY expensive!

I do a round trip of 25 miles to go to the ethnic supermarkets every now and again as i love the variety and the cost is tiny in comparison. I batch cook stuff and stick it in the freezer and stock up on spices and stuff. It's a nice afternoon out too. BUT I am middle class and have money and a car and food is fun for me and not a big issue of resourses.

I think that is also a massive factor. How we feel about food. If you are hungry and scared you can't provide enough of it, there is little choice, the relationship with it is very different.

MrsDeVere Mon 02-Sep-13 12:46:55

lifof I agree it was a daft point. But the way JO answers things just makes me hmm. I was on his side with that one but by the time he stopped whinging (he had to be told to stop) I just thought 'oh shut up'

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 12:46:58

(apparently stacks of crisps, chocolate bars and fizzy drinks are essential items) and if you took them out of the trolly and put in proper ingriedients to make meals with the bill would be the same if not cheeaper.

This simply isn't true. Price per calorie on the things you list is very very much lower than for 'proper ingredients'

lentils are twice as expensive as chocolate biscuits per calorie.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 12:47:11

Ocado has a 40 pound minimum spend, 25 on Co-Op. You may or may not be charged for delivery, depending on which slot you pick.
What ghost payments are you speaking of?

HungryGeorge Mon 02-Sep-13 12:47:16

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 10:18:37

Going on about people in poverty wearing designer clothes and having electronic gadgets.....

and he has JUST said something along the lines of ' it hasn't been easy for me the last few years, i know people think i'm rich'

He hasn't got a blimming clue about poverty..he shouldn't pretend he has...

so his 'apology' on the webchat last week was bollocks then if he's still spouting the same shite. Not listened to him though.. will go read the thread now grin

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 12:50:29

IceBeing you can't write something is a "fact" when it's not. "Crap" as you put it is a very expensive way to eat. When you build up a store cupboard of certain ingredients over time (i don't mean in one shop and i don't mean Jamies products) you can make homecooked proper meals very cheaply.

Penniepitstop Mon 02-Sep-13 12:51:32

Jamie Oliver employs 5000 people, that's a lot of responsibility. Yes, he probably is loaded but then again you need a lot of money coming in each month to pay 5000 salaries, i wouldn't want that stress. I agree with everything he says and good for him for having the guts to say it.

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 12:51:52

'However, surely every parent has a responsibilty to prepare and feed their children the best food they can afford, even if it means you go without some luxury items or downgrade in something elsewhere. Is that not what Jamie is saying?'

He may think this. In an ideal world it would be great if this was the case in every family. But it's a complex issue and he is not well placed to spout off about things like this when he sells expensive fish fingers marketed at people who have the money to afford more choice about what they eat. And then to cast judgment on families who live a life he has no clue about. Most people in his position would realise that it's not appropriate to blab every thought in his head to the nation.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 12:52:00

Ghost payments are when they take a payment at the point of ordering and then take the actual payment when it is delivered (as the amounts may differ due to special offers etc).

The ghost payment is credited back to the account but it can take days to register and if you are on a tight budget that can be enough to send you into overdraft and incur charges.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 12:53:15

FWIW, cat, I don't think where I live is particularly isolated at all, but when I think about it, no, there isn't a free bus to any of the big supermarkets from here, and the nearest shop in town is a 3.30 bus ride away (and isn't so good for deals as it's a Tesco Metro not a big one). If you walked it'd be well over 30 minutes, probably more like an hour there and back. Other than that there's a couple of little corner shops, a M&S food at the petrol station and a Waitrose mini at the other petrol station (both charge more in these than at the regular shop).

There's council housing just over the road from me.

The bus takes me into town in 10-15 minutes so I'd never thought of it as being isolated at all, and I've got a city postcode. But when I think about it, it'd actually be quite tricky to get quickly and cheaply to the sort of supermarket where you could stock up at a decent price.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 12:53:36

peanut it is a FACT that you can eat crap cheaper.

As only one example - this week you could buy 3kg worth of ready meals in Iceland for under £5. You cannot make that cheaper.

This thread was devoted to the exercise of working this kind of thing out and the answer is that you can eat enough for a family of 4 for about 26 quid a week eating ready made crap.

If you can beat that with a home cooking recipe collection then go to it! But many many people on the thread tried and failed.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 12:53:53

A bag of lentils will last over a number of meals, a pack of chocolate biscuits A) Isn't part of a meal and B) Would not last 5 minutes.

Say you pay £1 for a pack of biscuits and £1.50 for a bag of lentils. "But the lentils are more expensive" you might say - well the lentils will go far and last a lot longer, the biscuits won't.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 12:54:27

peanut you wrote that it is cheaper to home cook as if it was a FACT. You are the one writing things as facts that are totally incorrect.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 12:55:14

peanut do stop love, you are embarrassing yourself.

I said PER CALORIE. Doesn't matter about the size of the pack.

It costs you more to get calories from lentils than from chocolate biscuits FACT.

FantasticDay Mon 02-Sep-13 12:55:52

Crowler, there is nothing wrong nutritionally speaking with frozen veg. In fact frozen peas maintain more vitamins than fresh.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 12:56:13

It cannot be that hard to build up a store cupboard of beans (which kids love), tinned tomatoes, coconut cream, popcorn (for snacks) etc. It's just considered a silly, "lentil-weaving" middle class thing to do which is pretty sad.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 12:56:41

I have no problem with frozen vegetables.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 12:58:05

Btw, also where I live: chippy. 2 minutes walk away. Very cheap chips.

This is probably not a coincidence.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 12:58:11

Yes it can be that hard. If you have nothing left what are you supposed to buy these store cupboard items with? Scotch mist?

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:00:53

I agree with what Jamie Oliver is trying to say. He's actually brave enough to say it. Well done Jamie Oliver!

There are people that would prefer to pay for fags and energy drinks over healthy ingredients to make a meal. It's true!

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:01:04

1.5kg of chocolate biscuits: £2:20 7425 kcals
1.5kg of lentils: £3:27 1575 kcals

lentils are 7 times as expensive as chocolate biscuits per calorie.

Crap is cheaper FACT.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:02:50

If you swap read-made things for their cheaper, less processed variety i.e. instead of baked beans --> a big bag of lentils. Then you have a bag of lentils that goes further than baked beans. Instead of a jar pasta sauce, a pack of 4 tins of tomatoes. And so on.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 13:03:04

It cannot be that hard to build up a store cupboard of beans (which kids love), tinned tomatoes, coconut cream, popcorn (for snacks) etc. It's just considered a silly, "lentil-weaving" middle class thing to do which is pretty sad

Good point. The thing is though that when you are living on a really low income you are not going to stock up on anything because every penny you need, you need now.....if you get tinned tomatoes you need to eat them with something, heat them etc...it's more money on the leccy and gas...all that stuff in the cupboard that you can knock up a meal with just isn't there when you are in grinding poverty. Youve either eaten it already or not brought it in the first place.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:04:09

I am not arguing that some people couldn't make better choices about expenditure. If you smoke and then have to feed your kids shit then I would wonder about your priorities.

BUT

There are a significant number of people who can't afford fags or alcohol and who still have to feed their kids crap because it is cheaper than home cooking.

IF you have less than 35 quid to spend on food a week then you are stuffed.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:04:21

IceBeing we're talking about different levels of poverty here. If you're struggling to maintain a certain level of calories per day, Jamie Oliver probably can't help you.

If you're struggling to feed a family of 4 healthy food within your budget because of work etc, that's different.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:04:33

Our posts crossed.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:04:49

crowler you are wrong. Cheap ready meals are cheaper than buying lentils etc.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 13:05:15

I never mentioned the size of the pack. I meant if the chocolate biscuits were 50p cheaper then the lentals for the same weight surely anyone could see the lentals are going to stretch over a number of meals, add bulk to a meal and overal are going to be better value for your money? The chocolate biscuits would last one sitting in a family home and the only thing they would bulk up is someones waistline!

I think education is the key here, i mean if we have parents thinking chocolate biscuits are better value to feed their familes on because they cannot work out that proper healthy ingredients go further in tne long run so work out better value then we really are in trouble.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 13:05:26

*1.5kg of chocolate biscuits: £2:20 7425 kcals
1.5kg of lentils: £3:27 1575 kcals

lentils are 7 times as expensive as chocolate biscuits per calorie*

...and we all choose to 'fill up' when you are hungry and cold.....Anyway, cooking lentils costs lots in fuel, you need spices and other things to make them taste like something that hasn't come out of someones hoover bag...

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:06:05

oh xpost.
yes indeed.

people who think home cooking is cheap are not the people who can't feed their kids anything but processed crap.

People think of 'normal' mwave meals, or take out or McD's when they think of crap, but there is a whole lower level down there...

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 13:06:19

But Crowler, you can't just eat lentils, you have to have something to go with them.

Baked beans is a better option because they are cheaper and you can just eat them without having to add a tonne of ingredients.

And you can get a jar of pasta sauce for 44p.

pinkhalf Mon 02-Sep-13 13:09:24

I din't get the abuse of JO. Feeding yourself and your kids a bad diet has consequences, he's at least not pretending that its good or okay for you to do this. It isn't. Kids that are overweight or poorly nutrioned will struggle.

Yes it is lazy not to bother. No it is not hard to cook. This is your body and your children. Set an example, ffs. I remember seeing one of his programmes years ago with mothers shoving burgers through the school gates so their kids could avoid a healthy school meal. He must be tired of saying this over and over.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 13:10:00

And what is nicer with a cup of tea than a handful of raw lentils?

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 13:10:05

People think of 'normal' mwave meals, or take out or McD's when they think of crap, but there is a whole lower level down there...

I don't think many people understand that ice tbh.

I know what you mean about the crap vs cooked argument. Crap is cheaper.

OhDearNigel Mon 02-Sep-13 13:10:25

Can i ask the parents of older kids, would you send your children to free cookery lessons ? Just the seed of an idea im kicking around in my brain.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:11:02

Youthatcat - you need extremely little. Bouillon, garlic, pepper is fine. A drizzle of olive oil. This is not a problem for people not living in extreme poverty.

I agree extreme poverty is a different issue - and not the reason that UK kids are in their current predicament because the numbers don't add up.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 13:11:02

1.5kg of chocolate biscuits: £2:20 7425 kcals
1.5kg of lentils: £3:27 1575 kcals

lentils are 7 times as expensive as chocolate biscuits per calorie.

Crap is cheaper FACT.

Jesus, really. You haven't worked out that the lentils will last weeks/months and will bulk up several meals but the biscuits will last a week if that. The lentils aren't a meal in themselves, they are a store cupboard staple to go in meals to make it go further. You would buy lentils and still have them weeks/months later so wouldn't have to buy them for a while between purchases but the biscuits you would buy them each shop. Unless someone eats an awful lot of lentils they aren't something you need to buy every shop because they last ages.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:11:50

And what is nicer with a cup of tea than a handful of raw lentils?

that's just silly.

I noticed in Morrisons yesterday that you can feed a family of 4 for £6, they have a deal on of a Large tray Lasagne, Side dish and a Bakewell tart for dessert. The meal could stretch to 6 people by just reducing the portion sizes a little.

I cook most of my meals from scratch, I could not produce this meal for £6 and I know how to economise, ready meals are cheap, they use cheap inferior ingredients produced on a mass scale, flavour it up with salts and sugars and shove in as much carb as they can.

When you are on a tight budget making sure that your family is not hungry is more important that making the meal balanced.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:12:13

peanut you are completely confused. calories are the important thing when you are trying to fill up tummies as a priority. You can get 7 times as many calories into your kids in the form of chocolate biscuits than you can from lentils for the SAME price.

So if you have very little money there is only one choice.

1.5kg of chocolate biscuits came in at 7000 odd calories. That is the approx daily calorie budget for a family of 4. so you could keep people energy balanced for a day on £2:20 worth of 'food'.

The equivalent spend on lentils will only get you 1050 kcals and will 'keep them going' until around 10am. So not longer at all...much much less time in fact.

Do you see what I mean?

aladdinsane Mon 02-Sep-13 13:12:17

I don't think he gives a toss about the health of the nation
He gets air time and promotion of his books with all this
Gordon Ramsey got the swearing, sort out failing restaurant niche and Jamie Oliver had to find his niche

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:12:31

Don't agree with what ice says. Lentils turn into huge meals with little more than water and an onion and some tinned tomatoes. You can't get that with a packet of chocolate biscuits. With a 500 g of lentils you could easily make at least four meals, each one serving a family of four.

OhDearNigel Mon 02-Sep-13 13:13:16

Jamie's market isnt people that actually have to budget though, is it ? It's thrift chic for people that watch Kirsty's Handmade Home and think they are being very budget conscious because the waitrose organic chicken they are roasting for dinner was in the reduced counter.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:13:38

peanut if you only eat a few a day then they aren't doing you any actual good are they?

Seriously you are making no sense.

If you spread a bag of lentils over a month you get the same calories from them that you get if you eat them in one day.

It isn't magic?

OhDearNigel Mon 02-Sep-13 13:13:57

Not lentils again !

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:15:16

mini what the actual fuck.

If you use them as part of a meal you have to fund the rest of the meal?

So once you factor in the meat the veg the tomatoes the chickpeas the spices you have a meal that is vastly more expensive.

The chocolate biscuits can feed you for a day. The lentils can feed you for breakfast nearly. No amount of mixing with even more expensive ingredients can change that.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:15:35

IceBeing you and peanut are talking apples and oranges. As has been said.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:15:56

If you only have 25- 30 quid to spend on food a week, you can't afford lentils.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 13:16:19

Well, it's not silly, because lentils and chocolate biscuits don't fulfil the same purpose, do they? And if you need something to eat now then obviously it's going to be the chocolate biscuits.

However, I do think this also ties into the problems with Food Tech in schools, which, as I say, is a campaign I could really get my teeth into!

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:16:21

Lentils do seem to be a lightening rod, don't they?

ZeroTolerance Mon 02-Sep-13 13:16:32

What a lot of whinging and excuse-making.

Truth is, nobody likes being criticised for their choices.

And Mumsnetters cannot abide being told what to do - especially by people with money.

JO makes a lot of sense, though I don't know why he bothers, the grief he gets.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:16:35

I am talking what you can actually afford to buy if you are seriously hard up.

That other people can afford lentils is not particularly relevant.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 13:17:31

so what do people suggest? How many of you are volunteering to set up cookery classes? Putting your money where your mouth is? JO is spouting off but I dont see a cooking class in the deprived area where I live. I see exhaused people in poverty in Iceland trying to make pennies stretch. I see the greengrocers closing because a fucking Tesco's metro with stuff more expensive than the Tesco superstore 4 miles away openend. It killed the High Street. Oh, and it doesnt have loose fruit n veg like the greengrocer did. It sells packs. Packs of apples for £2.50 for 5. The Butchers is faltering now.
It used to be that elderly and poor people could go in and buy a cheap cut for one meal from the butcher who would tell them how to cook it. We campaigned against that Tesco. ow we have no choice and it is more expensive for meat.fruit and veg. Ready made stuff is cheaper and there's BOGOF's on cheap crap. This does not help.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:18:11

It doesn't have to be lentils...it could be anything.

The cheapest sources of calories are processed foods.

IF you have little money to spend on food you HAVE to eat processed.

That is the only point I am making.

The majority of people have enough money to eat non-processed food but a minority don't.

That is all.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:18:48

Well, it's not silly, because lentils and chocolate biscuits don't fulfil the same purpose, do they? And if you need something to eat now then obviously it's going to be the chocolate biscuits.

Where have I proposed lentils as a snack? Jeez.

This is from IceBeing's comment about meeting a calorie baseline, which is not the demographic we're talking about because that's extreme poverty.

Lentils are actually delicious and somehow they've gotten a bad rap. I love McDonalds, too - I have appalling junk food habits and I love lentils so they can't be that bad.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:19:32

lentils: delicious but expensive.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:20:09

IceBerg I don't think anyone here is criticizing that extremely vulnerable minority. That's why people are getting frustrated over the lentils v cookies.

I agree 100% that lentils cost more per calorie than cookies.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:20:31

seriously how can people be so dumb as to think you get more food out of the packet if you spread it over more meals?

If I have 1 biscuit a day I can make the pack last a whole frigging month!

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 13:21:01

Bouillon and olive oil? Yes very accessible to the poor.

And it hardly makes for a nutritious meal either.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:21:36

I cook most of my meals from scratch, I could not produce this meal for £6 and I know how to economise, ready meals are cheap, they use cheap inferior ingredients produced on a mass scale, flavour it up with salts and sugars and shove in as much carb as they can.

I think you're cooking the wrong meals then.
I can make a main meal for a family of four for let's say £2.00 and that would be organic ingredients. Admittedly it would be vegetarian though.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 13:21:57

I like lentils very much, they are lovely. However comparing them to chocolate biscuits and saying people should just buy them instead is a bit silly.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 13:22:01

I think all the balsamic, olive oil, chilli flake, pesto talk confuses the issue.

the people we're talking about are just not going to eat in that way. But a tin of plum tomatoes on a slice of wholemeal toast with a bit of Worcestershire sauce on top is lovely, healthy and - what - 60p?

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:22:03

I know crow I am cool with that. I just don't like what other posters have been saying - ie spouting the old 'home cooking is cheaper' nonsense.

It isn't cheaper. That doesn't mean that most people can't afford to do it and benefit. It just isn't cheaper.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:22:56

theO well it would be silly if anyone was doing it...

if you can't afford lentils you buy chocolate biscuits. If you can then I would suggest you do.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:23:57

mini - lets have a recipe then....

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 13:24:03

Sure - so publish a nice cheap book with recipes like that, and don't insult the people you think should be eating it, JO!

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:24:24

*mini what the actual fuck.

If you use them as part of a meal you have to fund the rest of the meal?

So once you factor in the meat the veg the tomatoes the chickpeas the spices you have a meal that is vastly more expensive.

The chocolate biscuits can feed you for a day. The lentils can feed you for breakfast nearly. No amount of mixing with even more expensive ingredients can change that.*

As I said before, a lentil soup that would feed four and stretch to six just buy adding slightly more lentils and water can be made for about a £1.00 and bread for about a £1.00 if not less, and organic. You don't NEED to eat meat if your budget doesn't allow it. It's all choices.

MacaYoniandCheese Mon 02-Sep-13 13:25:16

He's absolutely right to highlight the fact that some families are lazy and neglectful and prioritize gadgets over proper meal-planning and buying real food. There's no point in pussyfooting around it, is there? And so what if he's wealthy? Why does one have to actually be impoverished to comment on this subject? No, his recipes are not 'bare bones', survival recipes but there are plenty of websites/library books out there that address this need if you have the will. He's done A LOT in terms of raising awareness about the state of our children's nutrition.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 13:25:17

I don't know how the comparison of lentils and chocolate biscuits came about tbh - i mean of course chocolate biscuits taste yummy and the lentils are, well, just lentils. But the point is when someone is on a tight budget walking around the supermarket, putting less crap in would free up your money to purchase things to bulk up your cupboard which will bulk up your meals for weeks to come. It works out cheaper in the long run.

If you took a trolly with a normal shop plus chocolate, crisps and other crap and it came to say £30.

Then if you took a trolly with a normal shop, took out the crap and replaced it with cupboard staples like lentils/tins of stuff/herbs etc and that came to £35.

The second trolly was more expensive but next time you do your shop you will still have some of the staples in the cupboard so won't need to buy them again for a while. So this time your shop may come to £25.

The first trolly will most likely have to buy the crap in their trolly again on their next shop because it doesn't last 5 minutes.

So when you can't be bothered to cook or haven't much in, you can cook a pot of pasta, add some chopped tomatoes, a tin of something else, some dries basil and you have a meal from the cupboard to see you through.

Or you could just take out the chocolate biscuits and count that as a meal for your kids if you like.

Mini I can make a main meal for 6 people for only a couple of quid, what I can't make is a lasagne (with meat) Side dish and a very large dessert for the price that the supermarkets are selling them at.

KoalaFace Mon 02-Sep-13 13:28:36

Tesco sell frozen pizzas for 60p and bags of frozen chips for £1.40. A family of 4 could eat for £2. I know there are ways to feed a family something healthier for similar but they require planning and preparation. It seems impossible to some people.

Does Jamie want to show people how? If so that's good. But pretending that poor people are choosing unhealthy food so they can have designer clothes and big TVs is beyond ridiculous.

LtEveDallas Mon 02-Sep-13 13:29:12

See, I'm disappointed all over again sad. After he answered my question on the webchat, and very kindly offered to send my neice a copy of his book I was ready to believe that he would be able to see the error of his ways. That he would listen to the things thant MNers had told him, that he would see that it wasn't as cut and dried as he first assumed.

If he is still saying this crap then what was the point?

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:30:22

peanut you still aren't getting it.

IF you only spend 35 quid on a weekly shop then you will use up everything you buy in that week. IF you want to buy for the store cupboard then that is ON TOP of that.

You can save chocolate biscuits for next week too...

The point is the trolley load of crap at 25 quid contains enough food for a family of 4 for a week. The trolley load of lentils and friends at 25 quid doesn't contain enough food for a week....let alone having anything left over.

GrendelsMum Mon 02-Sep-13 13:32:50

I wonder whether some of the issue is that some other countries in Europe and Asia have a long tradition of cheap 'peasant cooking', which we don't have in the same way in England? And so English people tend to see a meal as needing to be a dish based around a lot of meat and some vegetables, ideally followed by a pudding, which does work out to be expensive, whereas in some other countries, a much simpler dish (e.g. lentils) would be seen as a satisfactory meal.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:34:09

Tesco sell frozen pizzas for 60p and bags of frozen chips for £1.40. A family of 4 could eat for £2. I know there are ways to feed a family something healthier for similar but they require planning and preparation. It seems impossible to some people.

I'd probably start with a baked potato and some kind of beans or tinned fish on top or cheese. I'd add some frozen vegetables if I could.

I'd also buy a giant vat of full-fat yogurt to add some taste & fat to the potato.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:34:09

mini lentil soup has nowhere near as many calories. You can spread it over as many people or days as you like...it still won't have enough calories to stop you from losing weight and being hungry.

The chocolate biscuits and frozen pizzas DO have enough calories to stop you feeling hungry and losing weight.

How is this so hard to understand?

The massive iceland ready meals have about 2500 kcals in them and cost £2.50. The question is not can you make a thin lentil broth for less than that, the question is can you supply 2500 kcals of home cooked food for less than that. So can you?

I mean I make a mean cold water based desert (okay it is actually just water) that is very nearly free and can be stretched to last for a whole week!

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 13:36:44

I read that, because of the way England became industrialized, we have less of a tradition of peasant cooking.

But I'm not sure how much I buy that? Obviously it is partly about knowing how to cook cheap food and what to cook, but a lot of peasant cooking would be just as unhealthy for most people today, as junk food. A lot of it was designed to provide cheap, filling calories for people who worked physically incredibly hard, much harder than most people do now.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:37:50

mostly porridge I think...ummmyum <not>

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:39:20

crow bag of potatoes from tesco is £2:50. You blew the budget and we haven't looked at fish or veg yet.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 13:39:37

I don't think chocolate biscuits and lentils are something to compare tbh because neither are meals, one is a add in as in you may add a handful to a pot of something to bulk it up (hence why it lasts a month) and the other is a treat.

Ice, i wouldn't expect to get a days calorie allowance from one ingredient so i get what you are trying to say but i think we have different ways of getting calories into our bodies each day. I would worry if a parent is giving their child chocolate biscuits all day to fill them up, i mean that would give anyone a rush of sugar then a slump when that sugar high fades.

We need to educate people on what they are putting into their bodies, i mean i like a chocolate biscuit but i wouldn't thing oh it is cheaper to buy that and eat them all day then it is to fill a cupboard and make healthy meals. Some ingredients are more expensive when you buy them but if that ingredient is going to last longer and go further in the long run it works out cheaper.

Some ingredients are more expensive when you buy them but if that ingredient is going to last longer and go further in the long run it works out cheaper

It might work out cheaper in the long run but when you have a budget that is calculated down to the last penny, paying a little extra on something that will go further and work out cheaper in the long run, is not possible, there is no room to spend a little extra.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 13:43:25

I agree supermarket potatoes are bloody expensive! I never pay more than a pound for a bag of potatoes, complete with dirt on. Supermarkets make a shed load on potatoes!

I make soup for less than a fiver using all fresh veg which makes 10 good size bowls. I could water it down a lot more too but i like it really thick!

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:45:57

Lentil and tomato soup from a very basic stock cupboard:

2 tbsp olive oil (Vegetable oil would do though)
1 large onion, finely chopped.
1 garlic clove (Not necessary if on very tight budget)
150g/5 oz red lentils, washed
1 pint of veg stock
1 X 400 g tin chopped tomatoes
Seasoning with salt and pepper

Heat oil gently, add chopped onion and garlic and fry until soft. Add everything else, bring to boil. Simmer gently for 20 mins with lid on. Blend with stick blender. Serve with fresh bread for a basic meal.

I do this once a week and make homemade bread in breadmaker and there is no way this costs me more than £2.00 for family of four. You can make it go further by adding slightly more lentils and more water when making up veg stock.

BoffinMum Mon 02-Sep-13 13:47:35

I heard him and I thought he was quite reasonable today, and it is true, that there are groups in society who simply reject the education/healthy eating/healthcare opportunities that are on offer.

What people don't say is that it was always like that, worse even, with certain kids running dirty and barefoot and being seriously malnourished. In education reports from the 1930s to the 1960s we see descriptions of pinched faces, gloomy and filthy surroundings, habitual beatings and crammed mass schooling for these groups in society. Instead we now see people overweight and watching too much TV, but it is rare for kids to be without shoes and food entirely. Poverty looks different. But is has always been there.

There were people in the first half of the 19th century who tried to educate housewives in the way of 'home management' with the aim of developing a better type of 'national child' for the Empire. Success was limited, I think, until secondary schooling was extended after 1944, and thousands of girls were sent to secondary modern schools where they were taught to cook and clean and look after small children, instead of doing academic subjects in many cases. We also introduced the NHS and spent a lot of time and money inspecting children's health at school, offering school dental services, nit nurses, free vitamins and milk, free school meals (initially), and all sorts of other support services. Many of these services were once completely universal but have now been eroded more or less to nothing.

I firmly believe that unless we provide a kind of supercharged NHS linked up with schools, and simultaneously train girls and boys in how to run homes properly, budget and feed a family, as a routine part of schooling, then those at the lowest levels of society will always be failed as children. And that should be a problem for us all.

I note Finland provide things like free baby clothing and equipment boxes and school dinners to all, regardless of need. It can be done. I believe their infant mortality rates may be better than ours, which is a good indicator of success.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 13:47:48

A very basic meal. hmm

JO's programme tonight has recipes all for less that £1.80 a portion! Wow!

Of course everyone can afford that... for one meal.

He knows nothing.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:48:25

Ice have you actually eaten lentil soup made from scratch? It's actually really filling! Especially with a huge hunk of fresh homemade bread and a couple of slices of cheese. Yum! You can also make fresh scone very, very cheaply to dip in which is delicious.

BoffinMum Mon 02-Sep-13 13:50:01

I don't often spend £1.80 a meal per person and I have a full time job. There are six people at the table usually so it would be £10.80 per meal!!

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 13:50:04

"I am talking what you can actually afford to buy if you are seriously hard up"

But the people who are claiming that they don't have time to cook, or that they can't cook, aren't exclusively in extreme poverty. The same argument's advanced by people who are working, in receipt of a range on in-work benefits and (as has been pointed on in another AIBU thread about FSM) actually above the threshold for FSM. People in that position are not rich, obviously, but are certainly not in a position where they have to eke out an existence relying on the extra calories in chocolate biscuits.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 13:50:14

ahh yes I am sure anything tastes great if you add nice bread and cheese.

Thank god they are free!

GrendelsMum Mon 02-Sep-13 13:50:30

Oh yes, I take that actual peasant diets can end up very unbalanced in micronutrients, with very nasty effects.

I'm wondering about the peasant cooking because my grandparents aren't English, and my gran did a lot of the cooking in our house growing up - and yes, it does feature lentils and tinned sardines very heavily. I've been quite struck by some of the discussions about relative calorie counts and nutritional value of what I'd see as fairly staple meals.

BoffinMum Mon 02-Sep-13 13:51:22

Incidentally for lunch today we had a sweetcorn cob each (in season), two pieces of wet ham and a bit of bread and butter.

If anyone can inspire me to use the 3,000,000 monster courgettes on the mini allotment I would be very grateful.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:51:32

The massive iceland ready meals have about 2500 kcals in them and cost £2.50. The question is not can you make a thin lentil broth for less than that, the question is can you supply 2500 kcals of home cooked food for less than that. So can you?

In this day and age of obesity I think lower calorie options are better but are very filling? The soup I have put on here comes out nice and thick by the way and is in no way watery.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 13:51:36

Yeah, that's pretty much what I have on a fast day....

As long as you have the budget for the breadmaker, or the money to pay to put the breadmaker on or the money to put the oven on long enough to cook the loaf, money to buy the flour and the yeast.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 13:53:03

IF you only spend 35 quid on a weekly shop then you will use up everything you buy in that week. IF you want to buy for the store cupboard then that is ON TOP of that.

You can save chocolate biscuits for next week too...

The point is the trolley load of crap at 25 quid contains enough food for a family of 4 for a week. The trolley load of lentils and friends at 25 quid doesn't contain enough food for a week....let alone having anything left over.

You have misunderstood my post.

BOTH trollies contain a normal weeks shop (£30/35 was just an example figure) but one trolly had chocolate, crisps etc ON TOP of that and the other had no crap but cupboard staples ON TOP as well.

The trolly which had the crap in would be the same at the next shop because crap last 5 minutes but the other trolly would be cheaper because they wouldn't have to buy the cupboard staples at the next shop because they last weeks/months (even years.)

So in other words if some people bought less crap in their trolly like chocolate, biscuits, crisps etc they would free up some pennies to stock their cupboard so they could make healthy meals and have better diets. A chocolate biscuit diet isn't the answer here!

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:53:16

ice I can make organic bread for less then £1.00.
By your aggressive answers I'm assuming you are feeding you and your family ready meals then...

Boffin, Gluttony chutney for the courgettes, if you don't want them send them my way.

KoalaFace Mon 02-Sep-13 13:53:58

Exactly youthecat! The pizza and chips I mentioned was £2 to feed 4 people! £1.80 a portion isn't so cheap to a lot of people.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:55:11

Binky you can often get breadmakers for free from Freecycle. Buying your own flour and yeast is a lot cheaper than buying the rubbish not very filling bread from the supermarket with god knows what in it.

southeastdweller Mon 02-Sep-13 13:56:37

Jamie won’t ever get any awards for his P.R oratory skills but he’s essentially right.

Any parent who thinks you can’t make quick healthy meals is either lazy or ignorant. Cooking pasta with veg and adding tinned fish as has been suggested here takes – I don’t know – less than ten minutes. Chicken and kidney bean salad using leftover meat from the roast the day before? Five minutes max. My parents worked f/t yet managed to cook us all food from scratch most days of the week. Takeaways were a treat back then, as well as pizza from the supermarket.

There's parents who routinely spend eye-opening amounts on gadgets and other non-essentials whilst feeding their kids crap, most of us know people like this.

I agree that our relationship with food (and money, for that matter) is complex and emotive but why is it we’re so reluctant to have a conversation about personal responsibility? I applaud Jamie for making an effort to engage with such tricky issues – at least he’s doing something and my God is it needed. I read at the weekend that 10% of all five year olds starting school this week are clinically obese – how did that happen? sad

By the way, the book isn't for people in poverty.

How do they pay to put the breadmaker on?

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:57:09

Totally agree with Peanut if people stopped insisting on buying the crap they could slowly but surely stock up their stock cupboard for healthy cooking. Don't spend that £1.00 of the biscuits, get something like some veg cubes instead for future meals!

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:57:22

*Veg stock cubes

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:57:47

Binky I think a cycle is about 5 p...

What when you're on a card meter?

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:58:58

I also have a recipe for bean burgers, again under a £1.00 for four burgers and very healthy too.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 13:59:48

But the people who are claiming that they don't have time to cook, or that they can't cook, aren't exclusively in extreme poverty. The same argument's advanced by people who are working, in receipt of a range on in-work benefits and (as has been pointed on in another AIBU thread about FSM) actually above the threshold for FSM. People in that position are not rich, obviously, but are certainly not in a position where they have to eke out an existence relying on the extra calories in chocolate biscuits.

Thanks. Friday has said this a bit more clearly than I have.

Potatoes. These are always for sale at my corner shop for next to nothing. And, Ocado has a bag of 2.5 kilos on at 2GBP at the moment. That's a few days of potatoes.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 13:59:52

Binky how about turning off your TV for half an hour to swap it to make up? Would that help?

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 14:00:15

I apologise Binky if you're TV free though...

Meglet Mon 02-Sep-13 14:03:00

I have an ancient MN veggie lasagne recipe which I make a couple of times a year, we eat some and I portion + freeze the rest. It probably comes up the same size as the giant lasagnes you get in supermarkets. But the ingredients aren't cheap, passata (around £1),packet of lasagne sheets, a big pile of peppers, courgettes and mushrooms, couple of tins of lentils, plus a hefy serving of milk + cheese for the sauce. Next time I make it I'll tot up how much it costs, the electric to cook it won't be cheap either.

A few years ago I borrowed one of those electricity consumption monitors from the library. Nearly keeled over when I turned the oven on and it went through the roof.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 14:03:16

boffinmum Someone put a recipe for courgette slices on here the other day.

put courgette slices in the search, they are ace.

I have made batches and batches of them thanks to dm's courgette crop. They are frozen for DC packed lunches.

Also amazing deep fried in salty batter.

You could also donate some to your local food bank / soup kitchen.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 14:03:49

Though people who are using food bank might not have facilities to cook courgettes...

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 14:04:00

It's all just so easy to do with a toddler hanging off your leg! hmm

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 14:06:24

When I was growing up my mum was on a meter, struggling, had a very low income etc. We had proper meals because the difference was she knew how to cook and prioritise the budget so food and bills came first. We had some junk too of course and we never had a la carte but we didn't live off of crap food and mum didn't make every excuse she could like people do.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 14:08:43

She also didn't drive and had to travel to supermarkets by bus with small kids.

Badvoc Mon 02-Sep-13 14:09:58

Oh it's all so tiresome.
These days (I am quite old, btw) kids aren't taught to cook at school or by parents and GPS.
Then people - rich trained chefs like Jamie Oliver - moan about how people can't make a meal from dust and hairspray and blame it on laziness.
Well, for some no doubt it is. Some days (like today...I have a hospital appt at 4pm) my dc will have pizza. It's really not the end of the world - although I am sure someone will be along in a moment to tell me what a bad mother I am...
Until the govt stop giving companies the legal right to make cheap, unhealthy food and target it at children then not much will change.
Things like fruit juice and fruit are taxed as luxury items....why?
5 a day? Simply not possible on a low income or if you live in poverty.

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 14:10:07

So people with toddlers can't cook? I have two kids. I have cooked with toddlers.

Catinabox, do you understand that this thread relates primarily to those who, on their existing food budget, could afford to make good food for their kids but choose not to?

GrendelsMum Mon 02-Sep-13 14:11:00

My friend tells me that fresh veg tends not to go down very well at our local food bank, but that tinned veg is appreciated.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 14:12:47

Can you put the beanburger recipe on please. I luuurve beanburgers. And if you can make it wheat free that would be fab smile
Coeliacs is a real budget killer, especially when you cant do spuds either, or lentils. Chickpeas are ok weirdly enough.

toomanycourgettes Mon 02-Sep-13 14:15:01

Does anyone remember a lovely mumsnetter called Miaow (sp?) who lived with her family in the Scottish Highlands? I haven't seen her around for ages, but she started what ended up being a massive thread following their monthly shop. She posted her shopping list, costings and menus and it was a revelation. Lots of home cooking, delicious sounding recipes and all on a tiny budget. so it can be done.

MrsDeVere Mon 02-Sep-13 14:20:59

Being frugal as a hobby
or for the purposes of writing a blog
is very different from being poor.

I have actually seen posts from people on threads saying how they 'enjoyed the challenge' of being poor for a week when they had lost their CC or some other minor inconvenience.

People are clueless.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 14:21:09

The problem with veg is supermarkets have made it so it looks pretty, all the same size and shape, wash the life out of it and Consumers pay a premiem for it.

So now they have killed of most of the green groucers and made consumer think if it is not all the same shape and size it must be "bad" but when you do find a proper green groucers or farmers market you find cheaper veg which has more flavour.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 14:22:02

The thing is, I expect JO's £1.80 per portion budget is based on food he can get cheap in a market. Or food that he can afford to buy in bulk (making it cheaper).

Not everyone has that luxury.

I used to live somewhere with a market. The planners sold the land to Tescos.

jammiedonut Mon 02-Sep-13 14:22:10

Fwiw I budget £30 a week on food shopping, and I cook the majority of my meals from scratch. Most ingredients are bought from Iceland (or if I can get a lift, aldi). This includes meat. I might buy the odd packet of 18p super noodles, but serve them with veg and meat. We don't drink or eat sweets because we can't afford to on that budget. I spend a lot of time working out where to shop and what to buy.
I don't consider myself to be in the extremes of poverty because I can afford to buy food and supply the fuel to cook it. JO is not criticising this section of society, but people who are in my position. I could just as easily fill my basket with crap and spend the same amount, but chocolate biscuits do very little for you nutritionally, just fill a gap. it takes more time to cook and prepare a meal, but this is a worthy use of my time.
Why are people so intent on criticising anyone who suggests that more time and effort should be concentrated on the food we eat? It's not bashing the most vulnerable sections of society, but more those who have the means but simply can't be bothered.

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 14:24:52

We're on a card meter. I'm running a bread machine, the slow cooker and a yoghurt maker now, so it's hard to determine how much the bread machine will use (it's on rapid bake), but it's not 5p.

I need to turn on the oven tonight to batch bake as a friend who has ducks gave us tons of eggs, so I'm going to bake and freeze but again, that takes power.

GobbySadcase Mon 02-Sep-13 14:26:14

He needs to stop being rent a gob spouting simplistic, pigshit ignorant nonsense, and go back to doing what he is good at - being a chef, writing cook books and presenting both on tv.

Book/series about 'budget' cooking (£1.83 a portion ISN'T budget by the way) is fine. The sneering judgment isn't.

Badvoc Mon 02-Sep-13 14:42:42

That's it isn't it?
My mum is coeliac.
I am allergic to cheese and shellfish.
Ds2 is milk intolerant.
It's a real challenge to cook for all of us and moreover something all of us can eat and enjoy.
So...for example, I do meatballs with tomato sauce, pasta for ds1 and dh. Courgette ribbons for me and mum, and veg sticks and garlic bread for ds2 smile
It can be done. But it's not easy. And it's not cheap.

KoalaFace Mon 02-Sep-13 14:42:50

Ideas on how to make healthy food to rival the cheapest food from supermarkets would be amazing and really useful. I'm talking about 50p a portion though. Not £1.80.

We had a particularly tough month money wise in July. Trying to buy fruit and veg was a nightmare. Felt terrible for DS when he was asking for blueberries and I had to say no.

I was so shocked that it was so much cheaper to buy frozen pizzas, fish fingers, chips, etc than to buy ingredients and cook from scratch. Before that I thought I was saving money by making things from scratch. I was so wrong.

One meal I found to be filling and cheap was
400g tinned tomatoes 45p
500g penne pasta 29p
900g frozen peas 89p
All from Tesco.

Used the tinned tomatoes to make a sauce with the peas and then add to pasta. Fed the three of us for £1.63 with peas and pasta left over. But not exactly the healthiest or tastiest. Cooking a meal for 50p a portion is really, really tough.

Badvoc Mon 02-Sep-13 14:43:48

Yes, koala, I find it far far more expensive to bake than buy cakes and flapjacks etc.

Badvoc Mon 02-Sep-13 14:45:27

(I did make an apple and blackberry crumble on Sunday but it was with apples given to me and blackberries from my sisters garden so that was pretty cheap)

Bubbles1066 Mon 02-Sep-13 14:46:49

I've got a smart metre, the oven costs 55p an hour on it's own, add another 20p for each hob ring. If you are using 2 rings and the oven you are looking at 95p an hour, it would be much more with a card metre. Add to that boiling the kettle etc and cooking can be pricey. My TV costs 2p an hour in comparison. Cooking is not cheap so recipes need to be quick as well as having low cost ingredients for those on smaller budgets.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 14:49:24

That's interesting Bubbles. So a roast dinner could cost about £3 to cook as well as the cost of ingredients.

cumfy Mon 02-Sep-13 14:51:39

1.5kg of lentils: £3:27 1575 kcals

1. Lentils are about £1.20/kg
2. Lentils have 3270 kcal/kg, so 1.5kg is 4900 kcal not 1575
3. So lentils are about 2725 kcal/£ compared to 3375 kcal/£ for the biscuits.

4. The primary nutritional value of lentils is protein not calories.

5. Lentils are 226g/£ of protein vs about 35g/£ for biscuits.

6. So lentils are about 6-7 times cheaper than biscuits for protein: 55g (rda), lentils are 25p (200g), biscuits £1.60 (~1kg).

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 14:51:49

But someone needs to speak up about it instead of it being a taboo subject.

He is not targeting those who are spending every penny on essentials and struggling to eat. He is talking about those who could feed their families better but choose to spend it on things that are luxuries instead.

Yes people can spend their money on what they wish but when it means children are being fed poor diets with possible health problems as a consequence something needs to be said. All the excuses is shocking and shows something needs to change.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 14:54:35

'I've got a smart metre, the oven costs 55p an hour on it's own'

Bloody hell. That is not cheap is it. I've been cutting everything. I feel like crying at that piece of information.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 14:58:17

There's nothing wrong with fish fingers.

And my favourite quote from another JO thread on here.

Being poor is bad enough without having to eat lentils too.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 14:59:57

And ain't nobody going to want to eat pasta in tomato sauce or veg soup every day.

LtEveDallas Mon 02-Sep-13 15:01:40

This is a C&P from my question directed to Jamie Oliver during the webchat. I was trying to show him that it's not all about the 'feckless and idle'. I've come to realise that DNeice's £54.00 is actually a lot more than other families have. I think she eats very well and very healthy - ie lots of veg soups using almost OOD veg with pasta added to bulk it up, but there are days when she can't cook, can't peel veg, can't lift the pan onto the stove etc. On those days there is nothing easier than chucking a 99p Iceland Ready Meal in the microwave...but if Jamie saw that would he would sneer at her food, sneer at her TV (my old one), sneer at her phone (my old one, a Blackberry that I hated - and she doesn't have a landline) and maybe go on Radio 4 slagging her off sad

My neice is a single parent to a teenager. She also has recently been diagnosed with reactive arthritis and cannot work, she can barely walk and there are days she physically cannot get out of bed. She has not yet been assessed by ATOS so gets no 'extra' provisions

She has a total of £54.00 per week to feed, clothe and look after her and her child. She is also about to lose 14.00 per week of that in the 'bedroom tax' unless she can find someone willing to house swap with her

She is limited to a local Co-Op small supermarket to buy her provisions from. The nearest Tesco would cost her £4.00 on the bus to town and from there another £2.00 on the bus to the supermarket. She is limited to how much she can carry (I've just bought her a shopping trolley). If she can get on the 'net she tends to do an Iceland shop as it is the only place that will deliver, free, to where she lives. Otherwise she shops on the day, every day

to give you an idea of how she suffers, until I bought her the shopping trolley her 'sunday lunch' shop took her 3 journeys - 1 for the cheap and nasty pumped full of water value chicken, 1 for the veg and 1 for the potatoes, because she couldn't carry it all at once

The obvious answer to a lot of the above is that my Great Neice should be taking more responsibility and helping her mum. Well yes, she should, I won't argue with that, but right now she doesn't and my neice doesn't have the strength to push her. I hope I can make a difference there, and soon.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 15:09:25

"How do they pay to put the breadmaker on?"

I measured mine with a clamp ammeter last year. I think I came to the conclusion it cost 8p to run for a standard bake. YMMV, as the Americans might say.

£54, bloody hell, I knew it was low but that low. I was on benefits 18years ago, income support, IIRC I received about £55, from that each week I paid, £5 gas, £5 electricity, £1 TV stamp, I then paid £2 return bus fare to go shopping. I spent approximately £30 each week on me and my daughter for food leaving a little over for emergencies or if I needed extra bread and milk, or needed to use the bus, I also had to save a little each week so I could afford to buy something for her birthday and Christmas. Everything I cooked was from scratch, except the kievs and noodles treat.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 15:12:45

Lteve how did Jamie Oliver respond?

MrsDeVere Mon 02-Sep-13 15:13:02

I don't think he is being brave speaking up about 'it'

I think 'it' is a fecking distraction.

I am willing to bet their are far more parents going without to feed their kids than there are buying tvs so they can give their kids crap to eat.

Its not only poor children who are overweight. It is not just the underclasses who eat poorly, drink too much alcohol and ingest too much fat and salt.

The annoying, irritating and maddening thing about JO is that he is talking crap, the sort of thing you hear in the pub, but he is doing it from a very high platform.

I don't think people are annoyed because their choices are being challenged by him. They are annoyed because he is not being accurate, he is making assumptions and he is doing it to SELL STUFF.

If he didn't have a book to sell he wouldn't have said it, he would't be all over the tv and radio and we wouldn't have yet another over privileged rich boy telling The Poor they are Doing it Wrong.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 15:13:03

LtEve did you hear JO on radio 4 today?

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 15:18:26

That's the thing though, Binky. It hasn't really increased that much in 18 years but the cost of fuel and food has. And bus fares for that matter.

What you could buy with £30 18 years ago would be a decent amount of fresh food.

JO needs to start pressurising the government and supermarkets to bring down the cost of fresh, local produce.

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 15:18:44

friday16- I don't have an issue with cooking oily fish, or any fish. How you got I won't cook or feed fish to my DS from me saying I don't count sardines on toast a healthy meal.

Also my DS eats whatever is put in front of him, he told me he didn't like his dinner yesterday (first time ever) but he sat and ate it as I wasn't going to make something else.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:21:45

Yep,spot on MrsDV.

He's not telling the wealthy to stop eating crap.

Just the ' poor'

He's an idiot without a clue ,with a book to sell.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:23:06

Sardines on toast is a perfectly healthy meal.

You that's the point I was trying to make, 18years ago I could feed us very very well, now it would be a struggle, £5 gas and electricity would not see us through the week, and £30 in food would not buy the same now as it did then. I was paying 25p for a pound of potatoes in those days, now its at least a quid.

Over 18years the money hasn't increased to keep up with the increase in living costs.

Retroformica Mon 02-Sep-13 15:24:35

ICE. Not all calories are equal. 10 calories of crap food hold few vitamins and minerals. Its 10 calories if processed wheat, sugar and fat. While 10 calories of filling delicious lentil soup hold lots vitamins and minerals to meet our bodies needs. Lentil soup can be a complete meal in itself.

My recipe is one onion, 3 celery sticks, some stock, cup of red lentils. Coriander and curry powder can also be added as an extra if you like.

ubik Mon 02-Sep-13 15:27:35

Middle class people eat crap too. There's nothing great about stuffing your face with Camembert, French loaves. Red wine, posh ice cream, pasta slathered inJamie's olive oil.
Costing the NHS a flipping fortune with gout, type 2 diabetes etc

Jamie diesn't seem bothered about reforming unhealthy mc people - because they are his customers.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 15:27:51

Applauds MrsDeV, as so often...

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 15:30:34

The thing is, if I was rich, I am pretty sure I would eat a whole lot better than I do.

I muddle through though grin

goodasitgets Mon 02-Sep-13 15:31:39

I get the using gas/electric to cook, I do. But I live near a pretty deprived area, in the middle of which is a shop. Every day I go in to grab reduced stuff, and there is consistently fresh stuff there that the staff have said they can't give away
I'm talking 25p for 4 chicken breasts, hummus for 5p, grapes 10p, innocent smoothies 20p. There's never any ready meals/puddings/treats reduced because they sell that stuff
I'm always bemused that nobody seemingly wants this cheap, usually healthy fresh food

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:32:24

See I can't really see the difference between a ready meal from Iceland and one with JO face on from Sainburuys.

I laughed when I saw his smug face on a box of fish fingers.

Good where is this shop? 25p for 4 chicken breasts, my freezer needs stocking up.

Retroformica Mon 02-Sep-13 15:34:38

Also a huge percentage of kids/adults are overweight and really shouldn't be eating high calorie biscuits/crisps/sweet treats anyway for health reasons

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:35:35

The reduced fresh meat in my co op, middle of a council estate, gets snapped up very quickly.

As does the reduced veg.

ON a lighter note, I had a dream once that I snogged the face off JO, I have no idea why, I think I must have been going through a very traumatic time in my life, if I wasn't before I certainly was when I woke up.

Retroformica Mon 02-Sep-13 15:37:00

The coop has great reductions in my city. I buy the reduced meats and freeze. The broccoli etc is usually reduced to 25p

LtEveDallas Mon 02-Sep-13 15:37:29

catinabox, he was very polite, and confirmed that the average cost of meals in his book was £1.32 for meals and lunches, not breakfasts. He has also sent my neice a copy of his book, which was very decent of him. I had specifically asked him if my neice would be able to feed herself and her DD using only meals in his book.

The reason I am disappointed all over again is that he actually said he could see the challenges my niece faced and wished her well etc - but if he has then gone on R4 and repeated the guff that was printed in the newpapers last week (designer clothes, electronic gadgets, plasma TVs etc), then he obviously didn't listen to what people were saying. I really did think that the webchat would give him pause to think about what he was saying.

I repeat what I said before too - I think the marketing of his book is wrong. He should have aimed it at the 'squeezed middle', people that are feeling the pinch right now and needing to save 'a bit' on their shopping, not the actual poor, that still can't fecking afford it. If he had, would he be slagging off their flat screens? I doubt it.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 15:37:40

Cheeky arse even plugged his own fishfingers on WH today...

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 15:40:13

That's an excellent point, LTEve. It really should be aimed at those more well off who are feeling the pinch.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:42:12

It is obviously aimed at them, but he doesn't want to alienate his target market by calling them all fat lazy sods with big TV's.

So he jumps on the poor bashing band wagon to get some publicity.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 15:42:25

Here's the recipe for the bean burgers for 9p each:
agirlcalledjack.com/2013/04/06/carrot-cumin-kidney-bean-burger-9p/
The blog might be useful for all the people making excuses on here for eating cr*p food because 'they have no choice'
agirlcalledjack.com/

She has fed her and her kid for £10 a week healthy made from scratch food because she's had too and then again to demonstrate for purposes of her blog.
PLEASE TAKE A LOOK.
HEALTHY EATING AT PROPER BUDGET PRICES CAN BE DONE FOR PENCE PER PORTION.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:46:02

What excuses do ' not poor' people have for eating crap food then?

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 15:46:55

Again you're misrepresenting what he actually said TheOrigional.
He was asked about his FishFingers, he said he hadn't gone on the programme to talk about them, but if he was asked to, he would. He didn't go on and just blatantly start advertising his products.

He also said that his dc ate FishFingers and there is nothing wrong with them.

LTEve, I didn't think you'd listened to the programme because again he didn't start 'slagging off' people like your neice.

He did admit he shouldn't have spoken about the women with the big TV. He said he know realised that the only way to get a TV was to have one on credit and these companies only sold large ones. So I think the web chat/bad press he got last week has taught him something.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 15:47:31

And of course, if JO really wanted to put the cat amongst the pigeons he might ponder why two fairly good correlates of deprivation are (a) poor diet and (b) smoking, and ask if people spent on food what they spend on cigarettes both of those problems might improve. It's these days accepted as an axiom of public health policy that smoking is inevitable amongst people on low incomes, which does seem to rather beg the question of why.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 15:49:47

know now

southeastdweller Mon 02-Sep-13 15:51:05

I meant to say earlier that ‘any parent who thinks you can’t make quick healthy meals on a limited budget is either lazy or ignorant’.

And I agree with him about the work ethic of our teenagers/people in their 20’s, though obviously it’s not all of them. Mummies phoning up on behalf of their kids in their 20’s saying they can’t come in because they’re so tired from working a 48 hour week. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 15:52:42

friday I thought about the cigarette issue earlier....hmm
It seems like cigarettes are more 'essential' then serving up healthy food for the family. hmm

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 15:53:55

People have been saying that about teenagers/young people since forever.

I expect the cavemen complained about their lazy arsed teenagers.

goodasitgets Mon 02-Sep-13 15:55:42

usual - how weird! Mine is a co op too. Maybe it's just location differences?
Waitrose has amazing reductions but everyone has cottoned on now. I still have 9p sausages in the freezer grin

AmandaHoldenmigroin Mon 02-Sep-13 15:55:47

I like Jamie Oliver and don't take what he says too seriously. he has been overexposed and that does lead to resentment. on the plus side, it does give him bags more cash. So I guess that as the trade off you make if you are in his position.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 15:56:41

That's good Lteve but a huge shame that he mentioned these points this morning because he ought to have learned something.

I honestly don't believe that many people in this country understand the depth and extent of poverty in this country.

Some people eat crap because they are making poor lifestyle choices, other people are poor. Poverty isn't just about economics, long term poverty has all sorts of consequences.

Girl called Jack is great. minamalistmum she is different to someone who is experiencing long term poverty. Yes, i agree that it demonstrates that it CAN be done but at the same time, it's a huge leap to expect someone with a background of long term poverty to do this.

LtEveDallas Mon 02-Sep-13 15:57:26

LTEve, I didn't think you'd listened to the programme because again he didn't start 'slagging off' people like your neice

No you are right excusetypos, I didn't listen to it (I don't listen/watch anything on the BBC), I was going on what previous posters said on this thread, people that did listen. That's why I was so upset with him.

If you are now saying that he didn't mention designer clothes and electronic gadgets in the context that 'they' were buying those rather than feeding their children, then I apologise, because that is what has disturbed me. I'd be very happy if that is the case.

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 15:57:52

MinimalistMommi - Her burgers don't cost 9p, they cost much more if you include the coriander. Also she is counting per burger what else do you put with that? I've yet to find her meal plan for her £10 week.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 15:58:41

mini that soup you listed would cost about £1.50 from tescos.

But it only has about 300 calories in it. If you split that between 4 then it is less than 5% of your daily intake.

It has 8 times less calories than the ready meal I listed, and hence represents extremely poor value for money in comparison.

My guess is that your family are filling up on bread and cheese at this meal....which aren't free...and in fact are probably more expensive than the soup.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 15:58:51

So are only the middle classes allowed to be addicted to nicotine? hmm

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 15:59:32

lentils were £1.09 from tescos. biscuits were also tescos.

I am sure you can buy both lentils and biscuits cheaper if you try. It won't change the basic point that lentils are more expensive than biscuits.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 15:59:44

sorry £1.09 for 500g

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 15:59:53

I take the not finding the £10 meal plan back, however it's not for a week it's for 5 days...

Pasta with tinned mushy peas and cheese, that's fibre, fat and salt, not the healthiest meal.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:02:02

what 10 pound plan is this? 5 days for how many people?

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:04:36

agirlcalledjack.com/2013/03/07/living-below-the-line-5-day-meal-plan-for-2/

For those that want to read it. 1) We can't have soya and I wouldn't even if we could. 2) Some of the ingredients for the meals aren't included in the list.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:05:08

LtEve, he didn't mention designer clothes and he did apologise over his ignorance about large Tvs

He did mention that he didn't understand why children not being fed healthy food, had iPhones.

I don't think he was slagging anyone off. He was answering the questions posed by the interviewer.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:07:00

I'm taking it that this £10 meal plan also uses a lot of store cupboard ingredients?

Owllady Mon 02-Sep-13 16:10:36

seriously, are all poor people wearing designer gear? because the town near where I live I don't see many people wearing designer gear (obviously I don't have any idea the size of their tv's)

and that's the issue I have with these JO statements. They are blanket statements based on stereotypes, they are not based on an average poor person

I think there is a different issue between saying 'lets show everyone how to cook cheaper nutritious meals and saying 'those poor people who can't cook with their big tvs' and tbh i thought he apologised for that statement on mn last week confused which on a personal level makes him a bit two faced confused

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 16:10:42

Anyone know how the beanburger would stick together without flour?

Owllady Mon 02-Sep-13 16:11:12

so he didn't mention designer clothes then? confused

cushtie335 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:11:24

He seems like a really nice man with a good heart who cannot understand why people don't perceive food and family cooking the same way he does.

He clearly feels very passionately about what he believes in and cannot fathom how everyone else doesn't feel the same as he does.

And although he's passionate, he's not terribly articulate or "clever" which lands him in hot water when he presents as condescending and patronising to the very people he's trying to "convert".

Owllady Mon 02-Sep-13 16:11:57

an egg?

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 16:12:31

although 'A girl called Jack' clearly isnt using TEsco value kidney beans. You could boil those fuckers for 24 hours and they'd still be rock hard marbles!

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:15:00

No it doesn't include any store cupboard items Youcat.

It's for 2 people for 5 days. So for a family of 4 that would cost £20 for 5 days, which would work out at £120 for a month I think
That's pretty good, if you're really are on a very low budget.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:16:15

faith she has a pot of coriander growing on her windowsill. Growing herbs can usually be bought for about £1.00 and can be kept alive for weeks.

They're beautiful in a homemade bread bun, which is people don't have a bread machine, bread can easily be made by hand. Made from scratch bread is alot cheaper than bakeries/supermarket.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:17:30

No, he didn't mention designer clothes today iirc Owllady.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:17:46

twisty I just place piles of the mixture onto a greased tray and I bake rather than fry for about 20 mins at 200 degrees. I then use a fish slice to careful pick them up and place inside split roll. I like to make it with basil rather than coriander.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:19:35

What if you haven't got a spare £1 a week to buy pots of herbs?

What if your flat is manky with mildew and mould? Not really conducive to growing your own herbs really is it?

Homemade bread is great, if you have an oven and can afford to use it.

MOTU Mon 02-Sep-13 16:20:10

*"I listened to him too and I'm sort of 50/50.
It's great telling people how cooking from scratch is cheaper and healthier, but if the DCs refuse to eat your healthy meals, then it just gets thrown away.
I am making a Shep Pie today from scratch. I know that my lot will pull faces, push it round the plate then leave the majority of it.
So I will end up wasting money when I could have made burger and chips and watched them scoff the lot." *

This is because your children have the luxury of knowing there will always be food, and have probably been well fed breakfast and dinner. Children get hungry, if homemade meals are all that's available they will eat them. I have proved this when looking after "fussy" children over and over again. My daughter is the opposite of normal, rejects processed food, wants homemade, but you know? Sometimes that's all that's available (like when we're out all day) and even if she ends up skipping lunch, she'll eat what she's given by dinner time! People are really harsh about anyone daring to make judgements about a life they haven't personally lived-doesn't mean they don't have the measure of it-I know I personally put food buying at the top of our priority list before budgeting for anything else and that's all he is suggesting people with limited means do.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:21:44

I've just popped a pot of lentil and tomato soup on the stove and it literally took five minutes to prepare. grin
Tomorrow night it will be what I consider a more expensive meal, a made from scratch cheesy pasta bake with fresh veg on the side. Eating healthy doesn't have to be difficult. But it is more effort then pealing of some plastic and sticking it in the microwave. But I guess it comes down to everyday choices of what's important.

ArtisanLentilWeaver Mon 02-Sep-13 16:22:05

I suspect JO's people would be reading this - if so, why does Jamie not make an easy to follow budget meal programme aimed for tea time? Even children's tv or something?

I like what he tried in the USA and it may have helped many. Yes, he has become wealthy through his work and yes, he is passionate but I think people ought to give him a chance if the costs and instructions are realistic.

That said, he also must realise how many people are now reliant on food banks and who do not have extra cash for fancy equipment or even electricity/ gas for cooking. Would he care to live like that for a month and balance out a budget for good food?

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:23:10

you then you leave the herbs out or choose to pop the pack of biscuits down and pick up the pot of herbs instead.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:27:00

I haven't mentioned biscuits. hmm

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 16:27:13

What if you haven't got a spare £1 a week to buy pots of herbs?

What if your flat is manky with mildew and mould? Not really conducive to growing your own herbs really is it?

I think you're not interested in listening to anyone on this thread.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:28:06

mini you are doing it again. If you exchange the biscuits (good whack of calories) for herbs (essentially no calories) you are consigning you to hunger.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:28:36

"So are only the middle classes allowed to be addicted to nicotine? "

If they can afford it and aren't, therefore, feeding their children crap. Same as Porsches and holidays in Spain.

The problem I have with a lot of the discussion about JO is that it's a sort of "ah, what about blind people with no hands who live on top of the London Eye: they find cooking really hard, don't they?" production of edge cases as though they disprove the central point. Poor diet is not the preserve of those living in absolute poverty. Playing poverty top trumps, in the manner of Monty Python's Yorkshiremen, doesn't address the point that plenty of people are still managing to eat a bad diet on a hundred quid a week of supermarket bills.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 16:28:47

I'm making them now minimalist, with my last carrot and anion. Ive not been able to get to the shops for weeks cos of the school holidays so we are down to tins!

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:29:00

mini your much vaunted lentil soup is about 80 kcal per portion.

That isn't going to keep the hunger at bay long!

Crowler Mon 02-Sep-13 16:30:07

I posted that too soon- because you don't buy a pot a week, they grow.
The roadblocks you throw up seem overwhelmingly cultural rather than logistical or financial.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:30:23

mini your lentil soup has less calories than a cuppa soup!

ubik Mon 02-Sep-13 16:32:58

Real budget cooking is not a runner for Jamie because his target demographic is people with enough money to shop in sainsbury's/buy his book.

Supermarkets are not interested in people spending less in their shops, they are not interested in advertising in the breaks between Jamie fannying about with budget lentils/kidney beans and tinned mushy peas from the Spar.

He is a marketing creation aimed at making money from gullible consumers. It's much safer to criticise people on low incomes because they are not his market. He is not about to tell better off people to stop slathering olive oil on their mountains of pasta

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:32:59

mini or one digestive biscuit

Owllady Mon 02-Sep-13 16:33:08

I apologise for my earlier post then if he didn't mention designer clothes

My lot love home made cottage pie but it takes 2 hours to make and cook (unless you do it the mince and pots and under the grill way but it's not as nice) and it costs quite a lot to make imo

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:33:12

My poor belly! grin

Yes, I am listening.

But, for some people, affording and cooking decent food that the whole family will eat (so not getting thrown away), is not that simple.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:33:17

ice I think you haven't learn to think long term about food (well into next week) and need some help about building up ingredients so you can actually put together a meal hmm

It's not all about calories, if something is filling and healthy then that's whats important surely?!

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:34:36

The recipes made by agirlcalledjack are more expensive than buying ready made crap also. Certainly the 10 pound meal plan is.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:35:00

"That said, he also must realise how many people are now reliant on food banks"

How many, indeed? If you read http://www.trusselltrust.org/real-stories then all the cases they cite are of temporary crisis. Which is terrible, and the Trussell Trust do excellent work. But all the cases they cite are about temporary disruption of benefit, not people in receipt of stable benefit or tax credits. For example, the case of the woman who had no food because all the benefits were in her husband's name and he'd left: you could double or triple benefit rates, and she would be in the same problem. A guy with PTSD who didn't want to claim benefits. An alcoholic rough sleeper. A shocking case of a care leaver falling through the cracks. Terrible cases, each, and deserving of our help and sympathy. But not examples of people in receipt of regular in- or out-of-work benefits being able to feed themselves without the help of a foodbank.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:35:09

twisty do you have any ketchup? My DD likes a little ketchup on top of hers....yum!! I'm making them this week. My eight year old DD will eat them but my five year old won't. I'm persevering though!

Faithless12 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:35:20

Honestly I buy the more expensive packets of fresh herbs because our budget isn't that tight and we don't have the space for pots or even a herb garden even though I'd love one. It's not just about being time or money poor but sometimes space poor.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:35:21

mini you haven't thought about actually having to eat within a very tight budget. Sure we would all eat fresh fruit and veg lovingly prepared if we could afford it

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:36:07

You fussy eaters definitely make it challenging, my five year old is fussy but she is getting lots better.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:36:12

"But, for some people, affording and cooking decent food that the whole family will eat (so not getting thrown away), is not that simple."

Moral: pandering to fussy eaters may be easier in the short term, but you'll regret it later.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:36:39

These aren't my circumstances btw. I am trying out some empathy though.

I am lucky to have well stocked cupboards. Not everyone has. Not everyone can afford to. A pound a week might be nothing to you but it will be to someone on the bones of their arse.

southeastdweller Mon 02-Sep-13 16:36:46

People have been saying that about teenagers/young people since forever.

I realise that but given all the NEET's around now as well as the thousands of immigrants, I'd say it's an important issue.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:36:52

You can buy frozen herbs and spices.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:37:21

I must have just pandered to my severely autistic and food phobic ds then? hmm

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:37:38

Affording and cooking decent food is not possible for all income brackets.

LtEveDallas Mon 02-Sep-13 16:37:46

Thank you ExcuseTypos. I am very happy in that case that he apologised for the TV remark, and that he didn't mention designer clothes. Although why replace 'Plasma TV' with 'iPhone' if he did actually listen and take on board what MNers had said? Would he judge my Niece for her sparkly Blackberry? - it was top of the range when she got it, from me, for free. Maybe those children he has seen with iPhones are in the same boat.

Oh, I don't know. I just know that he has made me feel uncomfortable. I used to really like him, thought his programmes were ace - and I have most of his books. Now, I'm simply disappointed and feel annoyed with myself for championing him all these years.

I look forward to giving his book to my neice though, and hope she can make good use of it.

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:37:54

faith my basil is stuck on my kitchen windowsill, I've had it for the whole summer now. It means I can keep an eye on it so I don't kill it...blush

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:37:57

Ice so you are saying you can feed 2 people, 3 meals a day, for 5 days for less than £10, using ready meals?

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:38:54

Nancy, where will you keep these frozen herbs if you have a very small freezer compartment?

JO's new series relies on people already having well stocked cupboards and a good amount of kitchen equipment, as well as expensive white goods.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:39:02

Of course!

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:39:02

I am lucky to have well stocked cupboards. Not everyone has. Not everyone can afford to. A pound a week might be nothing to you but it will be to someone on the bones of their arse.

you but what else are they buying in the week? Now that would be interesting.

PeanutButterMmm Mon 02-Sep-13 16:39:30

Icebeing i think you are very confused about calories and without meaning to sound patronising need to read more into the difference between "good" and "bad" calories and their effects. Some calories in foods such as biscuits for instance give you a short lived boost in blood sugar levels then crashes just as quick making you hungry again very quickly. Other foods such as proteins for instance maybe less in calories but higher in vitimins and other goodness and release energy more slowly meaning you will be fuller for longer.

Your arguement about more calories being better no matter what food it is is not correct because there are many different factors to take into account also. Chocolate biscuits maybe higher in calories but they will fill you up for a very short time if that is your purpose of eating them (to just fill your tummy) and i would suggest looking at other food groups which would fill you up for longer.

Owllady Mon 02-Sep-13 16:40:16

I don't know, i had a child who would eat textures, gagged on food and was an absolute nightmare, it turned out she had special needs (quite serious ones) so i don't think it's that simple. She will eat anything now though but we got help early on from a specialist dietitian who would make jamie olivers toes curl quite frankly as she said let her eat pies and chocolate iof it's the only thing she will eat shock grin but letting her just eat meant we had a child who was no longer malnourished and didn't have the perfect diet but was on the way to eating rather than gagging and eventually she began to try everything and now is a complete glutton tbh, but we were lucky we had intervention earlier.

My youngest is dead fussy though, I have to some degree let him get on with it, but now he is 6 he is eating a lot better (though I still think he is odd about food)

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:40:31

We calculated you can feed a family of 4 for 25 quid a week on ready made crap (mostly horrid fish fingers, oven fry and a lot of value bread and jam, but also pies and ready made pizza etc.)

and that is from tesco. You can go cheaper if you get deals from iceland.

Owllady Mon 02-Sep-13 16:41:00

who wouldn't eat textures, i really should preview

MinimalistMommi Mon 02-Sep-13 16:41:30

I don't have a separate freezer, just an icebox our cottage is approx 500 sq ft for our family of four. I manage to have frozen chopped onion, space for freezing children made from scratch filled rolls for packed lunches etc and frozen sweetcorn and peas.

Stop the excuses. IT CAN BE DONE.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:42:10

LtEve, yes I hope your niece finds the book helpful too.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:42:35

peanut patronising much? Dear lord. You can't wrap your head around the fundamental message that some people HAVE to focus on just calories because they will go hungry otherwise and don't have the luxury of eating a nutritous diet.

This is the whole jeffing point. Some people cannot afford to eat a balanced diet. FACT.

Of course if you can afford vegetables you don't eat jam on toast all week. but what if you can't?????

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:43:43

You - I think some of the excuses you are coming up with are a bit daft.

There will ALWAYS be a reason to not do something.

So far we've had:

30 mins too far too walk to shop
can't cook with toddlers
no room in freezer for herbs
can't carry heavy bags
can't go out in rain

There are lots of reasons to not send your kids to school

uniform too expensive
have to get up really early
have to walk too far
kids hate it

....eventually it comes down to making the right choices

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:44:07

You freeze children! grin

Yes, it can be done - but not by everyone.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:44:58

mini yeah and your nutritious soup that fills up your family for the same price as a 1.5 kilo ready meal, actually turns out to be an 80 kcal snack.

I don't think it helps when people say oh yeah you can cook nice stuff for less when YOU CANT.

You can cook nice stuff cheaply...for around 35-40 quid a week. Noone disputes that.

But you cannot beat the ready made crap for price.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:46:34

Of course 30 minutes isn't too far to walk to the shops but try walking back again with a week's worth of shopping. Then try doing it every week, in all weathers.

I have a medium sized freezer. I have no room for herbs in there at the moment as it is full.

Why is it daft if it is someone else's reality?

misskatamari Mon 02-Sep-13 16:46:56

I just hate him as he told me to make pizza dough without a bowl. It wasn't a fun afternoon!

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 16:47:36

Well, they turned out pretty good and stuck together even without the flour. ds2 (18, 6 foot tall and weighs 8 stone 7) ate all four, pronounced them a decent 'snack' and asked whats for dinner.

Only 3 weeks till he buggers off to university and cant bankrupt himself with his hollow legs grin

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 16:48:29

To home cook for a family of 4 for a week you need:

£35 quid to spend on food alone
access to an oven and hob, pots pans, kettle etc.
a fridge and a freezer
enough money for the electricity/gas used by above.
kids without severe SEN.
knowledge of basic cooking skills.

Most people have everything on that list.

Some people don't.

I would imagine the £35 is the clincher in a lot of cases. Hence people being to poor to eat well.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:48:42

ICE, the GirlcalledJack meal plan comes to £20 for a family of 4 for five days. So a week would be £28 for 4 people.

That's healthy, homemade food and includes lunches and breakfasts.

So comparing it to your £25 'crap' Iceland food and saying it's much more expensive isn't really correct is it?

PoppyAmex Mon 02-Sep-13 16:53:21

Forrin person alert

I don't understand how countries in which the standard of living is significantly lower than the UK's manage to feed their children nutritionally sound meals and it seems like an impossible mission here.

I really don't want to come across as unsympathetic and I know there are people who would struggle to get to a supermarket, or have disabilities etc. but these AREN'T THE MAJORITY.

The sheer amount of excuses is mind boggling - are you actually convinced that the vast majority of British citizens have insurmountable obstacles to obtaining and learning how to cook a basic meal?

How the hell do you think people in my country (and many others) working full-time in a shit economy, paying the same price for food as you but earning less and without your privileges/your safety net/etc. manage and you don't?

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 16:55:02

Nancy, some excuses are valid. Food allergies are real, for example. I have coeliacs and not being able to buy cheap bread and pasta is a bastard on the £40 a week budget I have for the 5 of us (2 of whom are over 18 so no CTC or CB but as students they are skint enough so give me £10 a week towards food/electrcity/phone etc when they are home for 3 months). The other one is on the ketogenic diet so its all butter and double cream.
We have to go on the bus and some weeks its a pig so we end up at the expensive local shop and the boys live off cheapo pizza. Adult children eat like horses and shop pizza (they will eat one each) will get 2000 calories into them quickly. ds2 will put away 4000 calories a day easily. He weighs 8 stone 7.
It will be easier when they clear off again in a few weeks (but they keep coming back! Weekly!) as I'm happy with raw cabbage, carrots, mayo and fruit. DH loves pasta and cheese. We keep hens so eggs are free. DH makes jam from ext doors tree that hangs over our fence that does the whole year so its not like we dont try. But cheap and easy calories fill up teenagers.
And no, we dont have a plasma TV

southeastdweller Mon 02-Sep-13 16:55:15

JO's new series relies on people already having well stocked cupboards and a good amount of kitchen equipment, as well as expensive white goods.

Really? You've had a preview of the show, I take it? In the book he talks about what he has in his cupboards and fridge as a guide. It's not meant to be prescriptive.

If people are too ignorant or lazy to have cheap STAPLES all the time then that's a great shame.

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Darkesteyes Mon 02-Sep-13 16:55:57

I was on the webchat last week. Hes basically replaced the big screen tellies with Iphones.

To the poster who said "His heart is in the right place. I very much doubt you would be saying that if the word poor had been substitited with the word black.

Actor David Threlfall (Frank Gallagher in Shameless which Jamie obviously thinks is a documentary) said that poor bashing is social racism and i agree with him.

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 16:56:01

A very good question Poppy

nancy you forgot one excuse from earlier in the thread. Someone said they wouldn't even try to cook from scratch unless they could afford a cleanerconfused

Callani Mon 02-Sep-13 16:57:01

I think Jamie's heart is mostly in the right place but what REALLY annoys me is that he starts every argument against people who don't eat properly by
a) Suggesting that all poor people eat takeaways each night
b) Claiming that you can cook food from scratch for cheaper than frozen ready meals.

Now a) I'm totally on side with him that if you DO eat takeaways every night, and you do feed your children crisps for breakfast and you do put cola in your baby's bottle then you need to sort out your priorities BUT let's not pretend that all poor people are thickos that do this because that is not true, it's not helpful and it's going to alienate the very people you claim you want to help.

And b) you cannot make food from scratch for cheaper than you can buy frozen ready meals. Believe me, I tried to prove that you could on another thread here and I could not feed a family of four with home made meals for under £35 a week, no matter how many corners I cut. Now £35 is not bad, but when you can buy £2 frozen lasagnes and cottage pies, your weekly shop drops to £23 easily - a whole third cheaper.

Food poverty in the UK is a very complex issue and one that I think that Jamie is right to highlight but the debate does not benefit from pretending that everyone who eats badly is choosing to do so for no reason.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 16:57:25

You - so you go several times a week and when the weather is really shocking you don't go.

I have packets of herbs that are the size and thickness of an envelope - pretty sure they'd slide into most freezers now matter how packed they are.

I appreciate you're playing devil's advocate but a lot of 'I can't because...' excuses are easily solved.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:57:59

So it is 'ignorant and lazy' not to be able to afford to have staples in your cupboard?

Lovely hmm

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 16:59:28

several times a week? With a £4 bus fare each time. Are you joking? How many families could do that?
Hands up.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 16:59:35

So what do you eat if you can't get there? What if you are ill? What if you are trying to juggle kids/part time work and everything else?

Darkesteyes Mon 02-Sep-13 16:59:36

Poppy you need to read what i said about Italy on that webchat I think im more qualified to comment on that than most having a mother who is Italian and STILL working full time in bad health at the age of 77 due to a paralysing fear of poverty It is probably going to kill her so FFS can we please stop fucking romanticising poverty in the Med.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 17:01:37

I'm really not putting up imaginary obstacles here. These are real circumstances for some people.

A bit of compassion and empathy goes a long way.

And now I shall go and cook my tea... from scratch.

Darkesteyes Mon 02-Sep-13 17:02:32

And what if you miss the phone call when your employer has asked you to come in on your zero hours contract while you are traipsing back and forth.

southeastdweller Mon 02-Sep-13 17:03:21

If they're not on the breadline, then yes You, they're ignorant or lazy.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 17:03:36

"Believe me, I tried to prove that you could on another thread here and I could not feed a family of four with home made meals for under £35 a week,"

That's a family of four in receipt of, say, HB, tax credits, two loads of child benefit? Or HB, JSA/IA and two loads of child benefit? None of these are kings' ransoms, but I've not seen it explained just how many people are at a point where they can't afford £9 per head, and why. Which is necessary to understand just how big the problem is, and what should be done to address it.

MOTU Mon 02-Sep-13 17:03:59

*"Add message | Report | Message poster catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 12:46:49
But are there really people who live on estates that are so isolated that they don't have a supermarket within a 30 minute walk? that there's not a bus they can catch to a shopping centre or market?

Yes there are. And if there was a supermarket within a 30 minute walk how practical would it be for a parent with young children to make this trip and carry a load of heavy stuff home? Yes possible but bloody demoralising in the rain when people are driving past in their nice warm cars. I wouldn't want to face that regularly."*

I do face this regularly. We are on a low/medium income I guess but are paying off debt so live to a very tight budget-I would say very similar to non working benefits claimant based on friends incomes. Yes sometimes it's annoying/stressful and sometimes when I'm tired/ill/busy then we might eat very simple meals all week like egg Nd tomatoes on toast or pasta and plain tomato sauce but its how we survive without eating crap or getting further into debt. I walk with a buggy to three different shops to maximise offers - I think of it as my cardio!

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 17:04:49

Personally I have no issue with my family's diet. A mix (for the teenagers) of shop pizza/oven chips and home cooked. The are healthy, run, do weights and are, if anything, underweight despite the 4000 calories a day. They dont eat fast food, drink fizzy drinks and drink too much booze. They both know how to cook.
I do have a teeny judge at obese toddlers and coke in bottles but really cant be arsed most of the time given I dont know home circumstances. I wish JO would use his influence to do something about school meals and make them all free and bring back cooking in schools.
And I wouldnt buy his books. Carb heavy and expensive.

PoppyAmex Mon 02-Sep-13 17:05:21

Darkesteyes my qualification is as good if not better than yours. I'm a native Mediterranean born and bred and guess what, my WHOLE family is too.

I'm not romanticising anything and you just proved my point; life is fucking tough in other countries, with less safety nets and less help than the UK and people come in from work and feed their children.

I'm sick of hearing ineffectual excuses. On another thread someone defending stocking up on Iceland and in the same breath said most people couldn't batch cook because they didn't have freezer space - as if frozen chips take less space than a vat of home made bolognese.

Paraphrasing someone upthread, excuses, excuses, excuses

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 17:08:09

excuse erm yes I think 25 quid is cheaper than 28. I also think that Jacks diet is very low on calories and wouldn't work for any people who aren't slightly built women.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 17:10:09

you are right IceBeing. Jack's diet wouldnt feed a teenage boy.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 17:10:18

Sorry, this may be another 'excuse', but it just occurred to me because it's the case for us (through choice, I'm not whining about it) - poppy, you need the freezer to maintain a constant low temperature to make frozen meat safe. It'd be ideal if your frozen chips stayed constant cold too, but frankly it's less likely to be a problem. My freezer is one of those that's the top shelf bit of a fridge, and yes, there's enough room for meat as there's enough room for a bag of chips - but I would never freeze meat in it as I'd be worried about the health implications.

I have no idea how much of an issue this would be or even if I'm being daft - it's just what I thought of reading your post.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 17:11:03

"And I wouldnt buy his books. Carb heavy and expensive."

I don't think you are supposed to eat the book grin

anyway I am done with this thread. People on here are in denial about the actual amount some people have to get by on. Lucky them and lucky me that I don't have to worry and am going home to well stocked cupboards and a fruit bowl full of fruit.

IceBeing Mon 02-Sep-13 17:12:02

you could do jacks diet for fun for a week and probably lose a few pounds...but it isn't sustainable for long.

PoppyAmex Mon 02-Sep-13 17:12:11

LDR fair enough, so you think this is an issue for a significant part of the population - their freezer is good enough for ready made meals and chips but not frozen vegetables/herbs/batch cooked soup?

OK then.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 17:12:44

I agree, her diet hasn't got enough calories in to fill you up for very long.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 17:14:51

poppy - no, I'm saying, I've no idea who it might be an issue for or even if I'm being silly to think it is an issue.

Sorry, probably shouldn't have raised it on this thread.

I wouldn't put ready meals in there either, not if they had raw meat. I just would worry about it.

usualsuspect Mon 02-Sep-13 17:15:09

If I was skint, I wouldn't waste a quid on a pot of herbs.

I would spend that quid on something more filling.

Darkesteyes Mon 02-Sep-13 17:15:36

Whats with the race to the bottom Poppy. You are still romanticising the poverty over there "life is tough with less safety nets and they manage" Ive seen the damage that poverty does to the mind.
MY father is currently worrying that my mothers left leg is about to turn gangrenous due to standing in very cold temperatures for over 40 years because of the FEAR of poverty.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Mon 02-Sep-13 17:16:46

I thought we decided quids were to be spent buying what I imagine would be a very tiny quantity of cannabis, following Jamie's suggestions.

But yes. A quid (ok, I lie, 1.20) gets you a portion of chippy chips. I can somehow imagine which one I might fancy.

Darkesteyes Mon 02-Sep-13 17:20:00

Disabled Peoples Protest were demonstrating outside the BBC earlier. Just seen updates on Twitter According to a person live tweeting it they are really fucked off with Jamie Oliver.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 17:22:51

I read they had Occupied BBC HQ DarkestEyes

emuloc Mon 02-Sep-13 17:27:12

I agree also that he should use his influence to improve school meals and make them free for every child who wishes to partake of them.

I have not read all of the posts here but I do think JO speaks a lot of sense. I do not see why he is lambasted tbh.