If I order coffee with hot milk, aibu not to want

(56 Posts)
PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 07:23:37

half a mug full of "foam"? That is lukewarm at best?
And was I being even more unreasonable to spoon the offending foam out of the mug and onto the saucer?

filee777 Sun 01-Sep-13 07:25:01

Ah you got a 'latte' YANBU as a coffee with milk (hot or otherwise) is not a latte.

purplewithred Sun 01-Sep-13 07:26:07

You mean you don't want a huge fattening mugful of warm milk with a hint of coffee taste and lots of froth? what kind of weirdo are you? (ps - the cool kids call this a latte. HTH)

I'm with you. Loathsome frothy nothingness.

Lweji Sun 01-Sep-13 07:26:45

Yanbu, but next time explain exactly what you want.

SomethingProfound Sun 01-Sep-13 07:32:27

YANBU but also that is NOT a latte at least not one made correctly. A latte should have a finger of foam no more, more than that and you have ventured into cappuccino territory. So you have clearly gone somewhere where the barista does not a) know what they are doing or b) doesn't give a shit!

If you want a coffee with hot milk flat white is the way to go.

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 07:34:11

I explain every time what I want, just once I actually got it, so it can be done. I am in Germany, the terminology is somewhat different here, but I like Milchkaffee aka cafe au lait, no foam involved.

CSIJanner Sun 01-Sep-13 07:37:51

Then you should order an Americano with warm milk (used to work in a coffee house)

Tee2072 Sun 01-Sep-13 07:43:09

Yes, what you want is a cafe au lait, as you said.

I have almost never seen them on the menu here in the UK. They don't seem to have anyway to warm the milk other than their frothers.

Lweji Sun 01-Sep-13 07:44:08

Keep returning it until they get it right.

Americano with warm milk - that's what DH asks for!

He11y Sun 01-Sep-13 07:54:54

I ask them to top up the milk if there is too much froth. Some tutt at me but they all do it.

Interesting to see suggestions for other coffees though as this annoys me too.

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 07:58:19

I doubt that they would understand what an Americano is, I don't! However, I will try again tomorrow morning.
I had a similar experience in Dublin earlier this year and ended up in a long discussion about the terminology for coffee with hot milk, we agreed on a flat white.
Frustratingly, if I drive 45 minutes down the road to France & order a cafe au lait, I get a) what I ordered and b) what I expect
I think it is the inconsistency that is annoying me.

Tee2072 Sun 01-Sep-13 08:10:11

An Americano is a shot of espresso topped up with hot water.

I would agree that what you want, if you can't get a Cafe Au Lait, is actually a flat white.

CMOTDibbler Sun 01-Sep-13 08:14:52

You'd get exactly as you like in the old lady inhabited cafe in my town - they come round to the table with insulated jugs of filter coffee and hot milk.

Could you not order a black coffee and a small jug/cup of hot milk if its an issue?

PresidentServalan Sun 01-Sep-13 08:15:01

If you order a 'wet latte' you should get little or no foam!

skinoncustard Sun 01-Sep-13 08:18:04

Ask for a wet latte/ cappuccino, can't stand a cup of froth, don't know how many 'discussions' I have had about frothy lattes. Latte is coffee made with milk - no froth at all. Yep had a few 'words' when asked to be topped up, coffee is what I paid , coffee is what I would like.

He11y Sun 01-Sep-13 08:21:39

I'm pretty sure you'd end up with a normal white coffee (ie with just a dash of milk) if you ordered cafe au lait in some places...

CerealMom Sun 01-Sep-13 08:22:40

I either ask for an Americano with hot milk 'on the side'. Or in less clued up places black coffee and a jug of hot milk.

In the coffee shop I worked I as a teen you would get exact what you wanted. Complete with me dressed in a calf length kilt, blouse and frilly pinny. I only worked there for the "oops shelf". As in "oops I've just put my finger right through that chocolate cake. Can't serve that to the customers"

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 01-Sep-13 08:23:13

So a flat white is what you would make at home? I.e a plain old coffee but with a daft name?

I don't drink coffee so I'm needing help here.

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 08:24:07

Hmm, well I was at breakfast in a 5* hotel near Frankfurt, where I have been a regular guest for the past 4 years. You used to get a thermos jug of coffee on the table and could then order a jug of hot milk, nowadays they clearly have a fancy machine with a limited number of options sad
If you go to one of the very good cafes in town (not a chain) you can still get excellent Milchkaffee.
I only drink one cup/mug of coffee per day, but I do need it to hit the spot. Still, after a foodie shopping trip tomorrow I will have mire coffee beans & be back in coffee-brewing paradise at Schloss PasswordProtected wink

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 08:25:23

Oops, more not mire - although maybe I could start a new trend?

Just ask for no foam?
Am guessing 'ohne schaum'.

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 09:37:08

TravelinColour I did ask for it ohne Schaum, I always ask for that! Still, at least nobody has criticised me for removing the Schaum onto the saucer. I should have taken a photo of it!

ILikeBirds Sun 01-Sep-13 09:43:14

"So a flat white is what you would make at home? I.e a plain old coffee but with a daft name?"


Flat white is espresso topped up with hot milk

CockyFox Sun 01-Sep-13 09:50:54

This is why I never go in coffee shops, I like ordinary black coffee, it is easy at home, grind coffee beans put it in coffee machine wait, pour in mug, drink, no milk, no foam, no extra flavours.

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 09:56:50

At Schloss PP I put about 75ml of milk into a mug and heat it for 1 minute. I then put it under the spouts of my coffee machine, select Coffee, strong, 150 ml and my machine grinds the beans and delivers exactly 150 ml of strong coffee. Quick stir with a spoon and that is it.
If I am feeling especially daring I may add a cube of brown sugar.

teacherandguideleader Sun 01-Sep-13 10:21:22


I get angered when I go in to a coffee shop and order my Americano. I always get asked if I want milk or cream. In my mind I'm saying 'an Americano is a black coffee you idiot!' but my mouth just says a meek 'no thanks'. Winds me up every time - I told my mum of my annoyance and she now gets annoyed on my behalf if she ever orders our drinks.

Mintyy Sun 01-Sep-13 10:25:46

My favourite coffee is a cafe con leche in Spain. They really know how to do it.

If you can't get a flat white, ask for an Americano with hot milk on the side.

I think you wbu not to be assertive enough to take it back and ask them to do it again!

Mintyy Sun 01-Sep-13 10:27:38

It is perfectly legit to ask if you want milk with an Americano! Otherwise, what do you think the white coffee drinkers actually drink if they don't want a cappuccino or a latte?

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 10:39:11

I cannot take something back if I am sitting in the breakfast room. I knew that I would probably not get what I asked for, so didn't have high expectations. Once I had excavated for the coffee, it was ok.
I will get a feedback e-mail at some point, so may comment there as there are a number of small gripes this visit.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Sun 01-Sep-13 11:48:23

So a normal coffee is an Americano? I never realised just ordering a coffee was so difficult. I'm sure if I went to the local cafe down the road (greasy spoon, it's great) and asked for a coffee I'd get a normal coffee. Except I wouldn't as I drink tea.

Lweji Sun 01-Sep-13 11:52:09

I cannot take something back if I am sitting in the breakfast room.


You can ask for a different one, if it is the breakfast room, surely.

insancerre Sun 01-Sep-13 11:54:45

so what is the difference between a latte and a flat white then?
cos in my local cafe they both look and taste exactly the same
I hate frothy coffee, so ask for a flat white- i had them in new zealand and they were just what i wanted but in this country a flat white just seems to be the same as a latte
if i want a coffee with no froth then I ask for an americano with milk
I do miss old style coffee that was just coffee and milk, none of this foam stuff

kali110 Sun 01-Sep-13 12:17:38

Frothers can make flat-non frothy milk you just have to know how to use them. In some places normal black coffee is either an americano or filter.

caroldecker Sun 01-Sep-13 12:38:03

But an americano has hot water added to the espresso - what you want in an espresso in a large cup and a jug of hot milk

ananikifo Sun 01-Sep-13 12:48:55

It sounds like OP wants brewed coffee with hot milk. Not all coffee is espresso, and I wouldn't want a large cup of espresso.

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 14:23:34

Yes, ananikifo, that us exactly what I want!
I am also willing to bet that if I asked for a cappuchino I would get almost the same.

ananikifo Sun 01-Sep-13 16:07:06

Password I have no advice but lots of sympathy. Normal coffee with milk is all I ever want.

InTheFace Sun 01-Sep-13 16:22:59

I think:

Espresso = tiny cup, black, one or more shots

Macchiato = espresso with a splash of milk, tiny cup

Coffee = ground beans, filtered/brewed/percolated, with (flat white) or without milk. Normal coffee cup.

Americano = espresso shot with hot water added. Can add milk. Normal coffee cup.

Cappucino = espresso shot plus frothed up milk. Normal coffee cup, half froth.

Latte = espresso shot in hot milk. No froth. Normal coffee cup.

Tea= drink of the Gods.

LRDMaguliYaPomochTebeSRaboti Sun 01-Sep-13 16:27:45

This annoys me.

Ten years ago, maybe even five, if you went into a normal cafe (not a chain), 'coffee with hot milk' would get you a filter coffee with a little jug of hot milk.

If you wanted a latte/whatever you'd ask for it!

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 16:34:36

that is very helpful, thank you. I will use those definitions to compare to what is available where I am.

ILikeBirds Sun 01-Sep-13 17:00:19

Flat white is still hot milk over espresso, it's not just coffee with milk. Less milk to coffee than a latte, not sure on the finer details beyond that

PasswordProtected Sun 01-Sep-13 19:17:32

Hmm, so the concensus appears to be that ordinary ground & brewed coffe with hot milk doesn't exist anymore. You can either have highly-charged espresso or hot milk-heavy coffee.
IMHO espresso diluted with hot water does not taste the same as black coffee.

Glitterspy Sun 01-Sep-13 19:18:36

A flat white is a milky coffee made with frothed milk - tiny bubbles give it a sort of silky texture.

What you want is, if we're using the antiodean names, a long black with hot milk. Aka an Americano with hot milk! Or just ask for a "regular coffee with hot milk, NOT foamy" surely that will get your message across!

kali110 Sun 01-Sep-13 19:45:02

Flat white isn't frothed milk, its heated so it has bit of air in to give it a creamy texture.
If op doesnt want a milky drink then no an espresso in a big cup with milk is a weaker latte!
If you want normal coffee with milk just ask for an americano or filter with milk on the side.
If you want strong but milk based coffee then flat white is very nice, however it does depend where you order as some iv had have been very frothy, lucky i quite like froth!

kali110 Sun 01-Sep-13 20:55:58

I share your pain op when you ask for a drink and dont get what you want. I like frothy drinks and hate when i get bloody flat milky ones

I'm surprised you can't get a normal Milchkaffee, most places I know do it and there's never any foam in sight.
I love Milchkaffee; it makes such a nice change to all those bloody cappucinos.

kali110 Mon 02-Sep-13 00:17:34

Think a lot of the problems is that different coffee shops do drinks differently, ie starbucks macchiato is big when everywherelse its shot of coffee with small layer of foam. Havent the foggiest wtf starbucks but in theirs....

Montybojangles Mon 02-Sep-13 00:43:30

Now I'm craving a flat white...

CocktailSausage Mon 02-Sep-13 00:46:06

Latte = One shot of coffee topped with slightly frothy milk top. More milky in flavour.

Flat white = Double shot of coffee topped with a tight foamed milk top. Not frothy.

White Americano = Double shot of coffee plus hot water and hot milk.

Well this is what I was taught when I worked in hospitality.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Mon 02-Sep-13 02:04:22

Does anyone know if Starbucks & Costa have changed their coffee beans/processes lately?

I used to quite like them - but lately they seem to taste really weird, a bit 'chemically'?

It is hard to get a good coffee. I get a latte (most come as a double shot now), scorchingly hot with only 2/3 of the milk they'd usually use.

The success of that request varies.

M&S seem to think tepid is 'very hot' hmm

Nothing you get in the UK compares with - Flat whites in NZ, Cafe con leche in Spain & Cafe au lait in France. I'm home, home & home sick now sad whilst actually living in my country of birth confused

I need coffee, sleep & TRAVEL!

ZingWantsCake Mon 02-Sep-13 03:02:31

when it comes to coffee I'm like Sheldon Cooper PHD.
no one can get it right so number one reason for never buying one!

so maybe YABU for expecting it to be just right?

but YANBU if they got it wrong.
here, try this brew it's just the way you like it!wink
I also have cake

SmallTorch Mon 02-Sep-13 03:08:46

I asked for an espresso with hot milk on holiday, and got two drinks. The hot milk had a sprinkle of chocolate on top, and a straw! smile

berrycake Mon 02-Sep-13 05:25:38

I'm a barista, and trust me, I prefer it if customers just explain exactly what kind of drink they are looking for in layman's terms, rather than guessing off the menu and then bringing the drink back numerous times. I totally understand that all the Italian names of coffees are confusing if you're not 'in the know'.

kali110 Mon 02-Sep-13 10:48:36

Really think its because all the coffee shops do their drinks differently. I worked in one for ten years and was always explaining the different types of drinks for people to say thats not how blahblah do them

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