to think Hogwarts is actually a really small school?

(224 Posts)
FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 19:57:05

I watch the film earlier and realised in Griffindor in Harry's year there were only 5 boys and 3 girls. There are 4 houses so probably about 40 pupils per year.

7 years, so about 280 pupils - not really that many when you think about it.

[geek]

GrimmaTheNome Fri 30-Aug-13 20:02:26

Yes, they're all in the same classes together with the other houses aren't they so can't be more than about 40 ... unless there's a whole B stream we don't get to see grin

GrimmaTheNome Fri 30-Aug-13 20:03:19

Not that many teachers either. No wonder the place is invitation only.

olidusUrsus Fri 30-Aug-13 20:04:12

I would love for Hogwarts to have a B stream, but I reckon Ron would have been in it so they can't have one grin

ITCouldBeWorse Fri 30-Aug-13 20:04:53

No SEN and Harry is the only kid who wears glasses!

I think Hufflepuff are the B stream. Poor Hufflepuff sad

cory Fri 30-Aug-13 20:06:56

It's the same with all these famous places. Dowton Abbey needs a butler and an underbutler to maintain smooth running of the dinners but doesn't run to a single gardener and there is nobody to do their laundry either.

Ericaequites Fri 30-Aug-13 20:07:24

Neville would defineately been B stream. I'm glad to know other people have thought this through also.

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 20:07:52

In primary school there is 7 years (Reception up to Year 6)

I think there was about 30 in my class and we used to have a whole school assembly every morning.

There is no way we would have filled out 4 massive long tables in the great hall.

cory Fri 30-Aug-13 20:16:29

What always gets me is how the finances work: how do they pay the teachers and provide all those wonderful school dinners with such few boarders, especially as some poor ones have bursaries (Voldemort, for one, and one suspects Snape as well). My hunch here is that most of the teachers they recruit probably have family dosh so they pay starving wages and expect them to make up the difference from their own money. People like Professor McGonagall probably do come from rather naice families. Which would explain why Snape is still living in a hovel when he is a head of house.

And how do they persuade Muggle parents to pass with the dosh for a school they have never heard of and never get to see? And, under the circumstances, how on earth do they keep it secret? Why do Hermione's old Muggle friends never ask? Do they have to obliviate them every time?

PharaohHound Fri 30-Aug-13 20:19:47
OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly Fri 30-Aug-13 20:23:00

Downton Abbey would have loads of gardeners but you wouldn't see themas they would never come into the house, being likely to have lodgings above the stables and so on.

Kumiho Fri 30-Aug-13 20:24:05

Maybe the Ministry pay for it? Like, state school smile

cory I want to know that too about the muggle parents never getting to see the school, and why the heck they pack them off there with no assurances! Can they even get on to Platform 9 3/4? Hermione's rents get into Diagon Alley, so presumably it's possible (although how do they SEE the Leaky Cauldron to get in???)

Presumably there's an option for the teachers to live at the school all year round if they don't want to pay for a house on their pittance salary but that's not really ethical. And Dumbledore is very ethical. Pure bloods are quite a feudal lot but you gotta feel for the muggle kids.

When do we see Snape's house??

zoobaby Fri 30-Aug-13 20:25:37

You all raise some valid points. I always thought it was equivalent to a 2 form entry since Gryffindor and Slytheran shared a few lessons. I suspect Huff and Raven do likewise until they're older and choose elective of course.

I'm pretty sure that place has some very wealthy benefactors.

Also agree with Cory, the teachers do it for the PRESTIGE.

Maybe Hermione didn't have any muggle friends?

Kumiho Fri 30-Aug-13 20:26:32

I like the theory that very few wizards were having children during the First Wizard War, so Harry's population was lower than his parents' might have been, or his own kids will be.

I love MN HP geeks [gin] Is there a quiche? If not I'm so starting one.

GrimmaTheNome Fri 30-Aug-13 20:28:25

Yes, the Ministry must pay - investing in the future of magic. No way would all those weasleys be able to afford it otherwise. Obviously they only cover board and tuition, clothes and books are provided by the family hence Ron's woollies and their second hand books.

Good point about the generations. The Weasley / Potter output alone would fill Gryffindor confused

I still haven't forgiven the Epilogue for being so shit and trite.

nomorecrumbs Fri 30-Aug-13 20:31:20

Come on HP fans! The house elves did the laundry.

I'd imagine there were more children attending Hogwarts who were several years younger than Harry, there would have bound to have been a baby boom after Voldy-knickers popped his clogs first time round.

GrimmaTheNome Fri 30-Aug-13 20:31:46

>Maybe Hermione didn't have any muggle friends?

she'd be like the kid who gets a place at a superselective GS miles away and loses contact with her old pals. And frankly she probably didn't have that many at primary, she'd have been a bookworm billy no-mates.

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 20:34:36

I'm now reading an article about evidence that suggests there were actually two more girls in Gryffindor.

confused

ebwy Fri 30-Aug-13 20:35:21

I suspect in the year or so after the first war there was a baby boom so the year below Ginny Weasley and Luna woukd have been huge by comparison.

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 20:36:25

And where to Wizards and Witches go to school before they are 11? Who teaches them to read and write and do maths?

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 20:38:52

Rionach O'Neal is apparently a Gryffindor student in Harry's year confused

Maybe I need to read the books again..

Tee they either attend local primary school's or they are home-schooled.

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 20:40:33

They can't attend local primary schools, ABF or they wouldn't be so ignorant of Muggle ways, would they?

Must be home schooled.

SubliminalMassaging Fri 30-Aug-13 20:41:04

Of course it's small. They are woefully undersubscribed, but that's because they only accept wizard children - what do you expect? There is hardly an enormous rush for places is there?

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 20:42:03

And Fay Dunbar is another Gryffindor girl.

Please someone say I'm not crazy and these girls never existed in the book.

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 20:44:39

Of course it's small. They are woefully undersubscribed, but that's because they only accept wizard children - what do you expect? There is hardly an enormous rush for places is there?

Well I'd never given it much thought before, but the film made it appear as if there were 1000(ish) pupils.

Anyway looking deeper into it, it appears there is evidence of many other characters in Harry's year who just didn't have a big part within the books.

Apparently there is Fay Dunbar and Rionach O'Neal and evidence to suggest a few more.

LostInWales Fri 30-Aug-13 20:44:47

Very similar to my (private) all girls school. We lived in houses (in my house there were only 2 of us in our year group) and there were about 300 of us in the school. Needed two big dining rooms so we could all sit at long tables to eat with a table of teachers in the middle of the room on a platform so they could stare down at us ('on high' it was called). Watching Harry Potter is probably the only time I've been proud of my old school, I could tell my DS' I went to a very similar school and if they don't behave I would turn them into toads. We played lacrosse instead of Quiddich, which IMHO was more dangerous wink

cerealandtoast Fri 30-Aug-13 20:45:24

that's the same size as my school was grin

less than 300 pupils altogether. my class was the biggest in the whole school, and had 16 people in it!

IAmMiranda Fri 30-Aug-13 20:46:00

Oh my god, i love you all so much. So glad im not the only one!!!

cerealandtoast Fri 30-Aug-13 20:46:34

x-posts, LostinWales grin

we ate at long tables too, and boarded in houses.

lacrosse deffo way more dangerous than quidditch

I've always wondered what tried do until they turn eleven. There must be wizarding primary schools, surely?

likelucklove Fri 30-Aug-13 20:48:58

This may be the Asti butterbeer talking but I luff this thread. Definitely need a HP quiche.

I thought there always seemed a lot more students on the tables than in classes. Maybe some drop out, like uni?

crumbs cory was talking about Downton Abbey having nobody to do the laundry.

twistyfeet Fri 30-Aug-13 20:50:49

how come they dont use magic to cure Harry's eyesight?
And owls C'mon, there has to be a spell thats the equivelent of wizarding Skype/mobile phones rather than the length of time owls take and not to mention owl poo.
grin

I've always wondered where/ how the MN quiche-for-clique tradition started. Anyone know?

LostInWales Fri 30-Aug-13 20:52:48

I was always goalie cereal, took me longer to get all the safety kit on than the actual matches wink (Were you in the north or south of the UK?)

I thought that they all went to normal schools until they got the letter? Hermione with her dentist parents must have gone to a bog standard primary.

PeerMon Fri 30-Aug-13 20:55:12

I have always wanted to know why they don't fix Harry's eye sight with magic!

PeerMon Fri 30-Aug-13 20:55:49

<joins HP quiche>

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 20:55:55

Except Hermione doesn't know she's a witch, so of course she goes to regular Primary.

And so does Harry. Well a primary for bad boys, since his aunt and uncle are such crap.

Which, by the way, totally sucks. No one checked on him for 11 fucking years?!?!

IIRC Rowling was once asked about it and she said that she had originally thought that there were a lot more students to herself, but did the maths later on and realised that actually, there weren't as many as she'd originally planned.

There are actually at least five girls in Gryffindor in Harry's year too, two unnamed girls who aren't seen in the books but JK had them on her plans and possibly others.

cerealandtoast Fri 30-Aug-13 20:58:39

I was south.

I was goalie in hockey, but sadly lacked any safety kit for lacrosse, as my wonky nose will testify.

I was horrified when I realised that the stupidly solid rubber ball that we had for our ridiculously large dog (since he chewed through everything else!) was actually a lacrosse ball, and that we would have to throw it at each others' heads...

MrsGeologist Fri 30-Aug-13 20:59:22

I'd take quidditch over lacrosse. I still shudder at the memory of being checked on the knuckles on a frosty morning.

I always assumed it was paid for by the ministry because you need to go to school to qualify as a witch or wizard. They'd be severely limiting their pool of pupils if they were fee paying and wizarding society wouldn't cope.

However, it mentions in the deathly gallows that the ministry makes attendance at Hogwarts compulsory, so maybe you could be home schooled.

& unless it was a fanfiction I read hen I'm sure than the school can adapt to the amount of students magically?!

Might have been a Dangerverse thing or other FF tale I've read. The Dangerverse has to be my favourite HP FF series grin

mermaid There was talk in one of the books about how somebody from the school would let muggles into Diagon Alley I think?

SlowlorisIncognito Fri 30-Aug-13 21:04:56

I'm such a HP nerd, I've thought about a lot of this and talked about it on other forums.

www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-secrets-of-the-classlist.html

This essay has a list of all the students in Harry's year, breifly shown in a TV documentary years ago. Apparently there are 40 students in his year, probably evenly divided between the 4 houses. Basically, what this shows is that Harry is pretty oblivious to his class mates, as he doesn't even know the names of everyone in his year at school (or ever notice them, despite sharing classes with them). It's entirely possible there are even two other gryffindor girls that he never once speaks to in seven years of school!

With the teachers, basically none of it makes sense. Those teaching core subjects have an awful teaching schedule- McGonagall, for example, seems to have about 22 classes- unless students only have one transfiguration lesson a week (which seems unlikely), when does she teach them all- never mind doing her pastoral duties as head of house. Snape's schedule is a bit kinder, assuming all his lessons are joint between two houses, he has only 12 classes, but that still only really leaves room for an absolute maximum of two potions lessons a week.

The teachers who teach 3rd year electives probably have a smaller teaching schedule, teaching between 5-10 classes each, so it would really make more sense for them to do most of the pastoral/administrative duties, but poor McGonagall seems to have to do everything from sending out letters before the start of term (can't Hogwarts affor a secretary?) to pastoral care for at least 70 children, and she's deputy head.

The numbers in the school (in Harry's year at least) don't translate to the size of wizarding population that's supposed to exist. Some students can be home schooled or educated abroad, but it seems pretty heavily implied Hogwarts is the only wizarding school in the UK, and possibly the whole British Isles.

I do think Hogwarts is a state school, though, given the level at which the ministry can intervene in book 5. They just take a laissez faire approach, most of the time. However, students seem expected to pay for some really expensive kit, which probably explains why most of the Weasley's stuff is second hand.

This thread is taking me back to the old days, I used to be in a group at college called 'affectionately' "The Harry Potter Crew" as we were all obsessed with it. I used to be very involved with an American Charity set up based on HP and knew absolutely everything about books 1-5 as I sped read 6 and 7 as I hated them so much

My coursework was based on HP and Tom Browns schooldays, didn't even read one page of Tom Brown yet managed to get a B in the exam based on my HP knowledge alone grin

Can't remember much now though hmm

Tee he doesn't actually does he, I thought that was a lie the Dursleys made up to cover his absence? St Brutus' or something?

LaFataTurchina Fri 30-Aug-13 21:06:41

Checks in to the HP quiche

I love how the FF makes up all these back stories for all the minor characters.

TiggyD Fri 30-Aug-13 21:07:55

Not much in the way of ICT either. I don't think I've seen a computer there. Just tomes and grimoires. Mostly enchanted ones too.

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 21:09:41

Does anyone know if Lavender died?

I'm guessing that she did sad

PistachioTruffle Fri 30-Aug-13 21:09:46

I'd always assumed that there were more pupils at hogwarts that just weren't mentioned specifically in the books.

I also assumed that muggle born kids go to normal primary schools, and wizard born kids are home schooled. Although, doesn't Fleur Delacour's much younger sister Gabrielle attend Beauxbatons, so maybe other schools work differently? (Or am I confusing book and film?)

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 21:10:57

Magic and electronics don't mix. Magic tends to blow them up.

Hermione says something about it at some point.

Well, maybe they did mermaid but he went to some local primary with his cousin.

LaFata: Me too, I have read some amazing ones over time. One brilliant one set in Marauder Days was the Shoebox Project, which had beautiful illustrations to the story but they stopped hosting it at some point so now it's lost, or the illustrations are at least.

I read it frequently until a few years ago when FF.net changed it's review section to americanised dates and were complete cunts to me when I queried why they had after 8 years of English-based (politely via email and then via twitter when they ignored me!) and they started taking down stories willy nilly. Some of my longer series were taken down for no reason, lost all of my reviews, I was very angry about that especially as my computer with them on has long gone sad

twistyfeet Fri 30-Aug-13 21:11:45

given there are 10 students in each year in each house, that makes 70 pupils in each house. How do they all fit in the rather snug Gryffindor Common room?

BatwingsAndButterflies Fri 30-Aug-13 21:14:32

I think that Hogwarts survives on Ministry subsidy and alumni donations. Remember as well that they do not need a large support staff as they have slaves house-elves and magic means you can do everyday tasks much quicker.

Pastoral care seems to be mainly down to heads of houses and quite patchy I would think. Dumbledore seems mainly to deal with issues of politics rather than having a great deal to do with the students.

I think the theory that Harry's year was v small due to the first War seems reasonable.

Other parts of the HP world: There must be a system of taxation to support the Ministry. I think that St Mungos might be a private hospital where you have to pay for care. Certainly the policing (Aurors) and government are state funded. Azkaban is likely state-funded as well. Dementors probably do not draw a salary since they benefit from the pain of the prisoners and will not get hunted by the Ministry while staffing the prison.

Free enterprise and commerce is alive and well with many small businesses. There are a couple of shops which have more than one premises but no big chains are mentioned. The only non-human run business is Gringotts which is run by Goblins but does have some humans (and perhaps other species) on payroll. In my opinion it is likely that Gringotts has links with Muggle banks in order to cater to the needs of magical folk that do business with Muggles. It is also likely that they have strong links with other magical banks overseas also possibly Goblin run.

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 21:15:38

FF.net went nuts at one point, you probably got caught up in that Pixie.

Have you looked at Archive of Our Own? I volunteer for Organisation of Transformative Works, which runs AO3.

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 21:16:52

Oh and the answer in HP universe to 'how do they...?' is...magic!

LaFataTurchina Fri 30-Aug-13 21:16:55

I really like the ones about Slytherins. I like to think there are some good ones rather than just being predestined to be evil when they grow up.

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 21:18:59

It was pointed out somewhere, maybe Cracked, that people must be very trusting in the wizarding world. After all, do something to someone and don't want them to remember? Cast a spell to make them forget.

BatwingsAndButterflies Fri 30-Aug-13 21:19:12

Even in the books not all Slytherins are evil. Snape turned out all right and there was nothing wrong with Horace Slughorn apart from favouritism and a bit of healthy cowardice. He and many other Slytherin students fought the Death Eaters in the Battle of Hogwarts.

Tee: Never heard of it, I drifted out of the FF world when I left FFnet. It seemed that the quality of stories was getting shoddier on all of my previous haunts by the point, it used to be that a story over 50,000 words was always going to be good, but then people realised that the longer their story got, the more people would read even just the first page so they would get more hits. Will check it out though as I fancy getting back into it again, I have a few half written ones still on my antique hard-drive wink

Gringotts has to have links to the muggle banks, much like the PM knows about magical existence, the higher ups in the banks must know about Goblins!

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 21:26:05

AO3

Lots of fandoms, lots of really really good fic.

roughtyping Fri 30-Aug-13 21:33:07

Ohhh I LOVE this thread! So glad I'm not alone!

Haha! I have already found one of my old favourites from FF.net on there still posting stories grin

pardonmytits Fri 30-Aug-13 21:36:22

This thread has made my evening smile <puts name down for HP quiche>

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 21:38:05

Lots of writers abandoned FF.net for AO3. grin

Sparklymommy Fri 30-Aug-13 21:39:43

I always assumed that there were more students that you just don't hear about in the books/films. Why do you think that Lavender died?

Electronics and magic don't mix. That does come up at some point. I think hermione mentions it in goblet of fire.

Euphemia Fri 30-Aug-13 21:40:48

And what's a ministry based in London doing interfering in education matters in Scotland? We've had devolved responsibility for education for ever, way before actual Devolution.

McGonagall should have shoved the Education (Scotland) Act up Umbridge's bahookey the day she set foot in the place. Freedom!

Euphemia grin

SirBoobAlot Fri 30-Aug-13 21:43:39

I'm rereading the Harry Potter books at the moment. I used to write a huge amount of fanfiction, and read them when I wasn't... God I was such a geek.

<checks in to quiche>

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 21:47:39

Enjoy the rest of the thread. Doesn't seem to matter what I say now.

I saw that on your FB Boob and my copies are now on my list of things to pick up when I go back to Essex grin

Tee Not surprised by that, ff.net bollocksed up big time and didn't give a shit about it.

GrimmaTheNome Fri 30-Aug-13 21:56:32

>Electronics and magic don't mix. That does come up at some point. I think hermione mentions it in goblet of fire.

Yes, and on a practical MN note, its something you shouldn't forget when your DCs ask Santa to bring them expensive electronic gadgets. They simply won't survive a magical sleigh ride grin

What do you mean Fluttering ???

Anyway, I know what the REAL question on everyone's lips is.

HOW AND WHY DID HAGRID'S TINY DAD FUCK A GIANT.

I did a big hoggy snort at that Euphemia

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 22:00:05

ff.net panicked about NC-17/FRM/x-rated fic after LJ did rather than doing what LJ did, which was make a reader declare they were old enough to read it. It was totally idiotic.

Problem Fluttering?

DiseasesOfTheSheep Fri 30-Aug-13 22:01:12

I've often wondered about Sirius. I'm sure he was meant to be in Gryffindor with James (though I accept I may be mistaken as it's been a while!), but Hagrid says also this:
"there wasn't a witch or wizard went bad that wasn't in Slytherin house"
in the 1st book, when they believed Sirius had murdered PP and a dozen or so muggles...

Always bothered me, that one wink

Since I suggested the HP Quiche, I think I should be its overlord.

(From Monday when I hand in my dissertation.)

<power hungry>
<Grindelwaldesque>

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 22:02:22

What do you mean Fluttering ???

Everyone seems to be talking in a different language. I have no idea what ff.net even is.

And everything I've said since my OP has been ignored. Meh.

Carry on, I got lost during page 2.

Elevader Fri 30-Aug-13 22:06:36

ConfusedPixie You read the Dangerverse too!I've never seen anyone who reads it!

Nobody's ignoring you Flutter it's just the nature of a discussion. I was going to ask when Lavendar died but sparkly already did.

I have no idea ab

Tee2072 Fri 30-Aug-13 22:07:40

That's the way of internet forums,*fluttering*.

confused

^about fan fic either but you just ignore the digressions.

Sparklymommy Fri 30-Aug-13 22:09:58

Flutter ff.net is a site dedicated to fan fiction. Stories written about characters from other authors work. In this case potter and all that.

I think you need some cake

Most people are accepting your points and bringing their own to the thread. No one is deliberately ignoring your points. Or not me at least!

<<snort>> at both the genius Grimma and Mermaid

I always tried to work out Hagrid's parent's relationship but decided it was best left unimagined <<shudder>>

Tee I vaguely remember that, they also changed around a lot of other things and the layout. My stories were innocent! Pft.

The American dates really annoyed me. I used to use reviews to mark my place in stories and they'd put the update date next to it. Great when the dates were backwards English style (13-09-25 for example) so then you could ctrl-F and pop in "13-09-2" to get anything from the 20th-29th of September, but then they made it American so you had to do each date differently, and when you could only catch up once a month you'd end up trawling through the list manually sad

Elevander Of course! It's one of the best FF.net alt universes out there! grin It's the one I've continued reading, though I need to reread it from the beginning smile

Flutter No need to flounce, it's a discussion that's been derailed a bit!

Sparklymommy Fri 30-Aug-13 22:13:12

Hagrids parentage... <shudders>
Can't have been a very fulfilling relationship for his mother!

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 22:18:13

Flutter No need to flounce, it's a discussion that's been derailed a bit!

I'm not (well not really) I just don't have much to add to the thread as it's gone over my head slightly. Obviously there are bigger fans who know a lot more about it than me, and have more interesting points.

It's only because I stated 3 points and got ignored on every one. I don't care that it's been derailed from the original question.

MrsGeologist Fri 30-Aug-13 22:30:52

She did die. Killed by Fenrir.

CorrinaKedavra Fri 30-Aug-13 22:33:06

Has this kicked off? What a shame.

Hogwarts OFSTED report is here

No mention of free school meals, EAL or Pupil Premium though.

Elevader Fri 30-Aug-13 22:34:06

Confused I need to reread it too! I've semi forgotten some of the plot points.
This is a Cracked article that refers to Hagrids cough 'interesting' parentage www.cracked.com/article_19397_the-5-most-depraved-sex-scenes-implied-by-harry-potter_p2.html
grin

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 22:34:28

Has this kicked off? What a shame

No. I made a flouncing point and people politely responded.

MrsGeologist Fri 30-Aug-13 22:35:45

Someone made a Hogwarts OFSTED? WTAF?

I have just discovered (having not seen the films 5, 6, 7 and 8) that they changed Lavender in the films. Not only did they change the actress who played her in the earlier films, they changed her to a Caucasian actress for the later films confused Surely people noticed that?!

CorrinaKedavra Fri 30-Aug-13 22:42:33

Oh, sorry OP, my mistake.

The OFSTED thing is obviously a joke and written by a fan.

Euphemia Fri 30-Aug-13 22:42:43

As I pointed out on a previous thread, Ofsted have no jurisdiction in Scotland and I'd be happy to introduce them to the Education (Scotland) Act as well ...

thebody Fri 30-Aug-13 22:45:25

diseases, Sirius WAS in griffindor house. remember prof slughorne said he had Regulus but not Sirius as he didn't have the set?

Lavender is killed by Greyback, well she looks dead anyway in the last battle.

what I don't get is how come if some muggles go there why don't their parents boast to their friends.

shit here its a big boast to get into the 'good' comp, I would be freakin boastin to all my friends if my kid turned out to be a wizard/witch and went to a posh boarding school!!!!

CaptainCapybara Fri 30-Aug-13 22:56:10

I always wondered why Harry couldn't see thestrals until after Sirius died when in flashbacks you can see he saw his mum die.

Elevader Fri 30-Aug-13 23:00:59

Captain I thought he just saw the green flash of light, not his mum? It could also have something to do with him being so young that he was unable to process death??

CorrinaKedavra Fri 30-Aug-13 23:01:22

Elevader what a fantastic link!

"Using inappropriate charms on a goat" grin

I thought I loved JK Rowling a lot until this was posted on another thread this morning and I am utterly amazed by her. She is so inspiring and her sense of social responsibility is marvellous.

FlutteringButterflie Fri 30-Aug-13 23:05:03

I always wondered why Harry couldn't see thestrals until after Sirius died when in flashbacks you can see he saw his mum die.

I thought he did see them before? I thought him and Luna were the only two in the group who could see them when they flew to rescue Sirius.

I could be mistaken. It's been a long since I read the books.

MrsGeologist Fri 30-Aug-13 23:05:45

A joke, but pretty accurate. I'd rate it unsatisfactory too.

ProudAS Fri 30-Aug-13 23:07:05

Hogwarts did get an OFSTED inspection years ago. I am using phone but will try to find link.

MrsGeologist Fri 30-Aug-13 23:07:59

I reckon he couldn't see them because it's not jut seeing death, it's perceiving it, IYSWIM. He was too young to understand what he had witnessed, so it didn't count.

CorrinaKedavra Fri 30-Aug-13 23:08:11

I think it was said on the other thread that Harry had to process Sirius dying before he could see them. I'm not that much of an expert and only changed my name for the studio tour.

JeanPaget Fri 30-Aug-13 23:13:01

I also thought it was a bit of a plot hole that Harry couldn't see Thestrals before.

It's also a bit weird that in the first book Hagrid knows all about Prof. Quirrell and says he seems scared of his own subject, when later we find out about Voldemort's curse that means no DATDA teacher lasts more than a year, meaning Harry's first year has to be the first year Quirrell is teaching Defence...

I could see them opulling the carraiges when they went back for 5th year as he'd seen Cedric die. Luna said something to him about it.

JeanPaget Fri 30-Aug-13 23:13:58

It's seeing Cedric die that allows Harry to see the Thestrals not Sirius, since Sirius doesn't die until the end of Order of the Phoenix

Excuse the bad typuing blush fingers are painful tonight and it limits my typing abilities on my big keyboard blush

JeanPaget Fri 30-Aug-13 23:14:20

Sorry cross-post!

Excuse the bad typuing blush fingers are painful tonight and it limits my typing abilities on my big keyboard blush

Haha, less than 30 seconds between, nice timing wink

FairPhyllis Fri 30-Aug-13 23:16:06

The hall in the films is modelled on Christ Church College Oxford's hall, which has a capacity of about 300. So about right for the calculations of number of students.

Any more and they wouldn't be able to have feasts! They have to have several sittings at meals at ChCh as it is because they would never be able to fit the whole college in.

Picturesinthefirelight Fri 30-Aug-13 23:17:26

Dds school is smaller!! On induction day there were 18year 7s but she says there were a few who couldn't make induction.

CorrinaKedavra Fri 30-Aug-13 23:19:58

Cedric then, not Sirius. Sorry.

The Great Hall apparently has a capacity for 400 students but then lots of them would be littler than the students of Oxford. Daniel Radcliffe's first costume is enchantingly tiny smile

But Fair, the films really can't be seen as an accurate extension of the books as there is a lot they got wrong in them, so it's a possibility that they could have gotten the number wrong too.

I wish Rowling would just say "There were X many students at Hogwarts", she has epic lists of students, their names, DOBs, houses and years, so why not just clear it up once and for all? hmm

Does anybody else remember JKs personal site from years ago? It was all HP based and there were loads of puzzles and things ingrained into the site, it was brilliant. Loads of spoilers and things, Dean's backstory was on there and there was a door that had spoilers behind it if you solved puzzles too.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Fri 30-Aug-13 23:21:31

diseases, Sirius WAS in griffindor house. remember prof slughorne said he had Regulus but not Sirius as he didn't have the set

My point exactly - Sirius was a Gryffindor who, at that time was thought to have gone bad - so why did Hagrid say there wasn't a witch or wizard gone bad who wasn't in Slytherin? Eh?!

It's bugged me for years. I have perspective issues grin

CaptainCapybara Fri 30-Aug-13 23:24:11

Ah yes of course it was Cedric not Sirius. I don't know if Harry was too young for his mum's death to "count" that could be it but I would have thought the fact that he was old enough to have a vague memory of it would be enough.

JeanPaget Fri 30-Aug-13 23:28:44

Ooh good point Diseases, that is annoying!

FairPhyllis Fri 30-Aug-13 23:30:31

Well I know the films aren't 'canon' but it's not a bad rough estimate.

I think wizarding society is pretty fucking grim tbh - what happens to you if you are a Squib? Do you get to go to Hogwarts? I know Filch works there and he is a Squib, but there don't seem to be any who are children. Do you basically get cast out of the wizarding world when you are 11 and have to go to Bog Standard Comp while all your siblings go off and have fun at Hogwarts?

JKR's vice-like grip on the minutiae of the world and on controlling people's interpretations of it is one of the least attractive aspects of Potterdom imo.

Elevader Fri 30-Aug-13 23:33:31

FairPhyllis You end up as a crazy cat lady like Mrs Figg grin

JeanPaget Fri 30-Aug-13 23:34:32

I think the opposite must be true as well for the siblings of Muggle-borns. Finding out that magic is real and that there's this whole fantastic world out there, but you aren't allowed to go because you're not one of the special ones.

Makes me quite sad for Petunia Dursley (not that locking Harry in a cupboard was great or anything...)

A potential estimate, she may've hidden a whole other house in the cupboard that we didn't see in the films wink grin

It is as good an estimate as we'll ever get isn't it? Nobody knows for sure, I think that even JK doesn't know, it was one of the things she had on her HP-Centric personal website before I may possibly have spent hours upon hours on that site

CorrinaKedavra Fri 30-Aug-13 23:39:34

I think Neville suspects he is a squib at one point.

And look how he turned out <phwoar>

ProudAS Fri 30-Aug-13 23:41:41

OFSTED report as promised:

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=381022

DiseasesOfTheSheep Fri 30-Aug-13 23:46:34

I think Neville suspects he is a squib at one point. And look how he turned out

Good point - now that was some transformation grin

FairPhyllis Fri 30-Aug-13 23:47:49

I think that the problem of how many children are at Hogwarts is related to the genre shift that took place after book 3 - once they stopped being fun boarding school stories in a wacky setting and became Terribly Serious Works About Good And Evil, with more emphasis on the realism of the world, you start to realise that absolutely nothing about this wizard society or about the way anyone behaves makes any fucking sense at all.

I love love love the OFSTED report.

Lottiedoubtie Fri 30-Aug-13 23:53:28

Favourite thread ever!

I think 300 is about right on numbers. Those tables in the great hall take up more space than the actual people I'd say?

When Harry sees the thestrals is a bit of a plot hole as far as I can tell. Best explanation I've ever seen it that you have to be passed the shock of death and have processed seeing it right in front of you before you can see thestrals. ... Bit too convenient for me that one. Would make more sense if Harry had seen them at the end of GoF.

Runwayqueen Fri 30-Aug-13 23:58:04

This thread has made my day. Thank you grin

"Harry is able to see the Thestrals at the beginning of Order of the Phoenix. It is later explained that you can see them after you have seen death. Harry had seen the death of his mother and possibly his father before he saw Cedric Diggory die, so why didn't he see the Thestrals before? Thanks, Kerry!

JKR's response: You can't see them until the death "sinks in."

From Mugglenet:
www.mugglenet.com/books/mistakes/ootpmistakes.shtml

Lottiedoubtie Sat 31-Aug-13 00:18:26

Odd how the death of his parents didnt sink in until the September after he saw the death of a classmate though?

grin

SarahAndFuck Sat 31-Aug-13 00:25:46

It annoys me how few pupils there are to be seen in the films.

That castle is massive. MASSIVE.

And there's about 100 people living in it. I'm sure there were more in the book, even if they weren't named and active in the story. There was just a general feeling of moreness about it.

I went to a school with 54 pupils in it. That was for four whole year groups. 54 of us and we didn't get a massive castle and we didn't need one.

He didn't remember the deaths of his parents though, did he? So perhaps he had to be aware of what he was seeing and remember it before he had 'seen death' in the way required to see the Thestrals.

SarahAndFuck Sat 31-Aug-13 00:29:12

Maybe Hagrid knew that Sirius wasn't bad?

Sirius was Order of the Phoenix and I bet Dumbledore never believed he was bad, even if he couldn't prove it. And he trusted Hagrid so might have said so to him.

So Hagrid was telling the truth when he said they were all in Slytherin.

MidniteScribbler Sat 31-Aug-13 00:39:08

I don't think squibs would be sent to local muggle schools. I would think that they would probably continue to be home schooled and pushed into mundane type of work (like Filch was). A few smarter ones might leave home and go out to the muggle world, as the only squibs we see in the book aren't particularly "bright" types.

FlutteringButterflie Sat 31-Aug-13 00:48:07

Odd how the death of his parents didnt sink in until the September after he saw the death of a classmate though?

Maybe it never sunk in? And it was only Cedric's death that allowed him to see.

olidusUrsus Sat 31-Aug-13 02:47:27

Yy Flutter you have it right according to JK!

olidusUrsus Sat 31-Aug-13 02:48:51

Also I recall JK saying that only in the film adaptations was it implied that Harry witnessed the death(s) of his parents, in the books he does not.

almapudden Sat 31-Aug-13 03:18:08

OH MY GOD I had forgotten all about the Shoebox Project. <memories>

slapandpickle Sat 31-Aug-13 03:30:37

Ron says at some point that "he has a cousin who is an accountant but the family don't talk about him" or something like that. smile

ihavenonameonhere Sat 31-Aug-13 04:51:59

I am a massive HP geek, too huge lol

I always get sort of upset at the relationship Hermiome has with her parents. It feels to me that when your child is a wizard and you are a muggle then you lose a lot of the relationship. She hardly goes home at Christmas and is off to Rons as quick as she can in the summer holidays!

And dont get me started on not blaming Petunia for being bitter towards her sister and parents!

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 31-Aug-13 05:31:34

I think hagrid was doing his usual blundering along with total confidence thing and forgetting all about Sirius and potentially some other wizards who "went bad". I don't think hufflepuffs are stream b either as they don't seem to be streamed at all, surely if they are sorted according to personality then they just all have different
strengths. It's not really covered in the book, harry sort of just accepts the other characters idea that hufflepuff is "the thick house", but in pottermore and other sources etc they come across as more kind, inclusive, thoughtful, caring etc rather than thick.

I have often wondered why Gryffindor is meant to be the best house since bravery doesn't seem like such an amazing attribute to have. Yes it's obviously a good one, but there's not much use being brave if you can't judge whether a risk is worth taking or how it might impact on others etc.

Tee2072 Sat 31-Aug-13 06:30:52

If I had remember what Hagrid had said about bad wizards and Slytherin, I'd have assumed it was a foreshadow that Sirius wasn't bad.

Dumbeldore, on the other hand, is really not a nice person. He left Harry with people he knew hated wizards, he didn't fight for Sirius to have a fair trial, he manipulated everyone in the Order and more.

My favourite fanfics are the ones that point out all of that and fix it.

ebwy Sat 31-Aug-13 06:56:53

I always considered it Hagrid showing his prejudice. Because nothing in being cunning and ambitious means someone is going to turn bad, whereas loyalty doesn't mean they have to be loyal to the 'good'side, intelligence doesn't mean always good and always right, and some pretty terrible people have been very brave.

Who you are are at 11 doesn't determine who you will be at an older stage of adolescence either.

ProudAS Sat 31-Aug-13 07:29:09

I think that the class sizes (whilst untenable in most schools) are about right.

As for the funding - the students provide their own books etc and a lot of the housework is done by magic or slaves house elves.

Its probably due another OFSTED now as the last one was five years ago.

FreyaFridays Sat 31-Aug-13 07:52:41

Another massive HP geek wading in here!

Rowling said on her personal HP-centric website years ago, in response to the Thestrals thing, that Harry never saw his parents die. His father died downstairs while he and his mother were upstairs, and his mother laid him in his cot before she was killed, so baby Harry saw nothing but the flash of green light above him. Canon Harry didn't see death until he witnissed Cedric's murder.

Gah, one of those things that makes me really, really not like the films. They got so much so WRONG! They also show Harry witnessing Quirrel's death, which also confused film viewers when it came to the Thestrals. I can't really take anything from the films too seriously, as they don't even pronounce Voldemort's name correctly... geek geek geek!

Also, sorry, more geekness, Lavender doesn't die in the books. She's saved by Trelawney in the Battle of Hogwarts. She was killed off in the films, however.

Tee2072 Sat 31-Aug-13 09:17:06

There's more than one way to pronounce Voldemort? hmm confused

CaptainCapybara Sat 31-Aug-13 09:33:53

I was wondering that too, what's the right pronunciation then?

Wellthen Sat 31-Aug-13 09:39:44

Surely it makes sense that if you cant remember the death then it doesnt really count? Which is why his mother's death doesnt count.

I dont understand hardcore fans who use the films as evidence for anything - the films are based on the books, not a complete visual representation of them! Lots of kids in the great hall - looks cool. A few extra in scenes in classrooms or common rooms - cheaper.

Equally people who apply muggle rules to the magic world - pastoral care and so on. School is obviously a completely different thing in their world. Ofsted report made me laugh though!

I guess I'm a bit of Lutheran with respect to HP. The only thing that matters is the actual books or what JK says.

Tee2072 Sat 31-Aug-13 09:43:12

Again, anything that makes no sense to us in the HP verse?

Magic.

Just assume magic.

How do they say Voldemort's name? confused

I'm always saddened that we never find out anything about how Hermione knew he was a witch. They all have cool stories about unintentional childhood magic, I'd like one for her.

Or does she have no idea until she gets the letter? In which case how did the ministry detect that she was a witch?!

I have found the Shoebox Project, the ultimate Marauder-verse ff!
http://shoebox.lomara.org/

Thrilled about that! grin

slap I forgot about that! I wonder if Rowling threw that in there to get us all to realise that squibs do exist among us? wink

Tee it's made pointedly obvious that Dumbledore manipulated things for the greater good throughout the series though, he really was a fucked up character and I remember thinking as a teen reading the series that it related to parental figures in life who believed that they were doing things for your own good when actually, sometimes, they got it so very wrong, which I'm sure Dumbledore laments about at one point in the books? Unless that was ff too

Hagrid is a character who sees life very black and white and is the ultimate in somebody who has been manipulated by Dumbledore.

It did used to annoy me when people use the films as evidence for anything as like wellthen said, the films were only ever based on the books, they got so much wrong and they were only an approximation as JK herself admitted that she hadn't thought some things through and so she couldn't give much information when they questioned her about them. There was also the issue that the books had different storylines which they couldn't possibly follow in the films, and unfortunately they dropped ones that actually the book-fans wanted to see.

I remember seeing the first three films with a friend who had not read the books. I had to explain so much to her, especially the Marauders, as at no point in the film did they explain just who the Marauders were and why they were linked to Harry.

I only watched the fourth as I was playing a drinking game related to the film. It was great fun grin

MortifiedAdams Sat 31-Aug-13 10:15:01

Ive been on the tour - that hall is tiny!! It just looks.bigger in the films.

Whats the situation with northern/scottosh students? Do they have to travel to LOndon to catch the train or are there other stop.offs.on the way?

I think that they have to travel to London, as it's made clear that when the dementors stopped the train that it was a weird thing for the train to stop before they got to Hogwarts. I'd assume that after first year any muggleborns would be able to hitch a ride on the floo network from local floo points though or the houses of friends from school?

Trills Sat 31-Aug-13 10:23:50

I've just spent AAAAAAAGES reading theories about all of Harry's year group.

SelfRighteousPrissyPants Sat 31-Aug-13 10:27:29

I was at Hogwarts (Alnwick Castle) yesterday and the broomstick training class was massive...admittedly some of them looked a bit old for Hogwarts wink

Tee2072 Sat 31-Aug-13 10:51:16

Pixie I think Dumbledore did what he thought was best for the greater good. I think he was usually wrong!

Trills Sat 31-Aug-13 10:57:35

Dumbledore was very old and very famous and very revered and so thought that he knew best.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sat 31-Aug-13 11:21:35

*Maybe Hagrid knew that Sirius wasn't bad?

Sirius was Order of the Phoenix and I bet Dumbledore never believed he was bad, even if he couldn't prove it. And he trusted Hagrid so might have said so to him.

So Hagrid was telling the truth when he said they were all in Slytherin*

But then why does he join in the panicking about Sirius being loose in PoA - he repeatedly tells H not to be out of the castle after dark, suggesting he believes Sirius to be a danger to Harry. Which he obviously wouldn't be if he knew the truth wink

Wellthen Sat 31-Aug-13 12:29:25

Hagrid says 'never was there a wizard that went bad that wasn't in Slytherin' (paraphrasing)
NOT
never was there a slytherin that wasnt bad.

They arent the same thing. He isnt saying all Syltherins are bad, just that bad people are always from Slytherin. Its irrelevant whether Sirius or Snape were bad, he doesnt say they have to be.

Tee Yes sorry, by putting it in italics I meant it in a sarcy way wrt his feelings on the matter blush I realise now that it reads back wrong! I agree with you, I think he fucked up on many occasions. Especially because all along he knew that Sirius was innocent!

Ooh, I love this thread. smile

DeWe Sat 31-Aug-13 12:51:04

Yes, but then in one of the quiddich matches she writes something like "three quarters of the audience was supporting Gryffindor, but there were 300 people supporting the opposing side".
Which would make a school of 1200, on the basis it's never mentioned that the entire wizarding population of Britain turn out for it.
If there's 300 people per house, that's roughly 40 per year.

I think she tried to get round it by saying Harry's year was notably small, but basically it's clear from that and other things she has no idea when it comes to numbers.

Trills Sat 31-Aug-13 13:03:28

I think Hagrid is just exaggerating, and you're all reading too much into it.

Sometimes people say things that, if they were to think a bit harder about it, aren't precisely true.

Trills Sat 31-Aug-13 13:05:55

There never was a wizard that went bad that wasn't from Slytherin

strictly means Every bad wizard went to Slytherin, there has never been a bad wizard from another house

but the truth is probably Most bad wizards went to Slytherin, or The most notable bad wizards went to Slytherin or Slytherin people are mean to me so I remember the bad ones more strongly than I remember the bad ones from other houses

Heiderose Sat 31-Aug-13 13:10:42

I always thought that Hagrid had just forgotten that Sirius wasn't a Slytherin. His whole family was in Slytherin so after a while I could see people forgetting that Sirius wasn't one.

EverythingInMjiniature Sat 31-Aug-13 13:20:30

Pixie, I don't think dumbledore knew Sirius was innocent, he said he gave evidence that he had been the potter's secret keeper. Lily and James chose wormtail as a double bluff and Sirius was the only other one to know. They didn't even tell lupin

YoniBottsBumgina Sat 31-Aug-13 13:46:33

Or he wasn't thinking about Sirius at all since at that time he had been in Azkaban for 9 years and probably not heard of during that time.

I knew it was a double bluff but I thought that Dumbledore knew about the double bluff?

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sat 31-Aug-13 15:15:30

I always thought that Hagrid had just forgotten that Sirius wasn't a Slytherin

Possible, but I don't really think JKR made him forget it intentionally. I think it was a plot hole / mistake that she might choose to explain in that fashion grin

I agree with whoever said that Hagrid see's thing very black and white. I always saw the "there wasn't a witch or wizard.." quote as being Hagrids opinion, which Harry being completely new to the wizarding world at the time took as gospel.

SarahAndFuck Sat 31-Aug-13 18:30:27

But then why does he join in the panicking about Sirius being loose in PoA - he repeatedly tells H not to be out of the castle after dark, suggesting he believes Sirius to be a danger to Harry. Which he obviously wouldn't be if he knew the truth

Maybe because of the dementors, because Harry had such a violent reaction to them, and they were everywhere.

And because other things were out and about that he needed to be careful of.

And perhaps they didn't want him to just meet Sirius and find everything out before Dumbledore was ready for that to happen.

Or maybe not grin

FreyaFridays Sat 31-Aug-13 18:48:53

Sorry, only just got back.

Voldemort's name- the end "t" is silent, as it's a French name, so it should sound like "Voldemore". At least, this is the way JKR intended for it to be pronounced (and indeed has pronounced it this way in some interviews), but the filmmakers got down to it before she could correct them, and it was too late to change it. The correct version was used in the early US audiobooks, however.

CorrinaKedavra Sat 31-Aug-13 18:53:27

I've always thought that when reading it. Glad to see I was right - I rarely am grin

It wasn't as jarring for me as for the people I knew who saw the first film and realised they'd been reading Hermione wrong for years though.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy Sat 31-Aug-13 19:39:28

Well, the movie version is big enough that at least one student is either replaced or transformed into someone completely different looking, completely as in not even the same race, and no one seems to notice. wink

A French name? Isn't it just an anagram?

And Hagrid definitely thought Sirius was bad didn't he, as we find out about the Sirius / Secret Keeper thing in the really contrived overheard conversation in the Three Broomsticks with him and Rosmerta and McGon and all that?

Spork: Yeah, I discovered that earlier about Lavender, was not impressed!

I also remember being really pissed off that Columbus' daughter was Susan Bones in the first two films as Rowling had made it clear that it was supposed to be a British cast. Then Susan Bones wasn't in the later films.

NuggetofPurestGreen Sat 31-Aug-13 22:23:19

I don't think there's any Rionach in the books Fluttering. Maybe she said it in an interview or something?? (which doesn't count grin)

"JKR's vice-like grip on the minutiae of the world and on controlling people's interpretations of it is one of the least attractive aspects of Potterdom imo."

You're right FairPhyllis - I wrote a masters dissertation on this very topic!

Cheeka Sat 31-Aug-13 22:29:15

Has anyone been on pottermore?

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sat 31-Aug-13 23:16:40

Maybe because of the dementors, because Harry had such a violent reaction to them, and they were everywhere

I'm pretty sure he actually says at some point that H shouldn't be wandering about after dark, what with Sirius being loose and all that. I'd have to dig out my copy for a direct quotation there though! Not to mention Hagrid's comments in the 3 Broomsticks, which definitely imply he believes Sirius killed PP and broke the Potters' secret enchantments.

I'm reasonably confident that Hagrid didn't know Sirius was good (or rather, since Hagrid is a fictional character, JKR didn't intend for him to appear to have known that).

You're welcome to your own interpretation though, of course even if you're wrong grin

To be fair to JKR she hasn't been able to move for 15 years without being asked to explain things, and since she evidently has it all figured out in her head, it's fair enough that she answers. Most fans love that she has an answer to almost all of their questions that weren't covered in the books, it's like having a never-ending encyclopaedia on hand.

I need to know more about this master's.

Mine is due in on Monday. This thread is my final grip on sanity sad

NuggetofPurestGreen Sat 31-Aug-13 23:39:46

Ah she was making it up as she went along grin.

Is your masters on Harry Potter Mermaid???

I wish it were!

A master son HP?! I was impressed by having an A Level on Harry Potter but a masters is epic!

NuggetofPurestGreen Sun 01-Sep-13 00:02:38

Well it was a masters in Popular Literature but my dissertation was on HP. I was supposed to do a PhD on it too, now that would have been awesome. A Doctor of Potter Studies grin

nennypops Sun 01-Sep-13 00:16:00

I always wonder what happens about higher education in the wizard world. I can't remember any mention of it, but all the teachers at Hogwarts must have studied beyond the school syllabus, and presumably those doctors have some sort of equivalent of medical school?

VortexOfDisaster Sun 01-Sep-13 02:43:15

Impressive amount of knowledge on this thread.

So, can anyone tell me why Harry doesn't have any family connections in the wizarding side? It's said a couple of times that wizarding families often tend to be related. So how come nobody is related to Harry on his father's side? No grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins, second cousins...

What did I miss?

FreyaFridays Sun 01-Sep-13 08:18:57

"Vol de mort" is "Flight of death" in French, which was the starting point for his name. It becomes the anagram only after the words "I am Lord" are added.

The thing about the lack of Harry's living relatives is very strange indeed. We know that James' parents were very old when they had him, so I suppose dying of old age would be a probable end for them. It's also stated by Rowling that Lily's parents also died of natural causes, but I must say, it's a lot to lose all four grandparents to natural causes when the parents themselves are only just 20! Maybe the lack of other relatives on James' side can be explained by the first war...

That was another thing that bothered me about the films (whilst I'm having a good moan about them!). The casting of Lily and James Potter as much older actors, when they were only 21 when they died. I can sort of understand it for scenes like the Mirror of Erised, when it would look a bit odd to have an eleven-year-old alongside a couple of twenty-year-olds, but even in the old wizarding photographs and the flashbacks... James, gah... James looks in his mid-forties!

TheMeaningOfLifeIs42 Sun 01-Sep-13 09:46:05

How come if all the evil people come from slytherin they dont use the sorting hat to kick them out on the first day instead of teaching them magic which they can use against the good people . Or as they need education just teach them nice simple magic like making fluffy bunnies which they cant use for evil?

nomorecrumbs Sun 01-Sep-13 10:33:42

I didn't know Lily and James were only 20 when they had Harry. Where does it say this?

olidusUrsus Sun 01-Sep-13 10:42:13

I think it's said outright later in the books nomore, but you can work it out yourself if you pick up the clues, there are a few (eg. Harry sees his father's quidditch cup v. early on in the series and it's dated).

MortifiedAdams Sun 01-Sep-13 10:55:11

TheMeaning all the Evil.people are Slytherins..Not all slytherins are evil. They couldnt just chuxk all the Slytherins out - 90% of them never do any evil.

Always bothers me when Petunia has her little rant about Lily and says something about her coming home from the school "turning teacups into frogs" or something. She couldn't have been doing magic in the holidays angry

Always seemed a bit mean to me when Harry inflated Aunt Marge and got expelled though. It was another involuntary thing like the vanishing glass.

HotPanda Sun 01-Sep-13 12:25:27

FreyaFridays
Doesn't that also apply to Snape and Sirius though? Surely they should be early 30's and whilst I love Alan Rickman, he is somewhat older!

nomore: There are things with dates to reference throughout the series and people ahve worked out timelines for everything. I remember sitting and working out the exact ages of the Weasley brothers when I was younger, Bill had left Hogwarts just after Ginny was born iirc.

You have to be careful when working out dates for them all though as JK admitted that she did mess up some dates which is annoying!

iismum Sun 01-Sep-13 13:20:58

The real problem with numbers is not how big Hogwarts is, but the fact that it is the only wizarding school in the country. So effectively that means that every person you ever encounter in your life - your partners, friends, everyone you work with, everyone who sells something to you in a shop, who runs the country, etc.,etc - will have been to the same school as you. Which makes no sense at all even if your school is huge!

For example, how can they have a professional quidditch league when only one school on the country plays quidditch? How do the economics of that work. And if you have more than four teams in the league then you have to have people playing for them who weren't even good enough to make their house team, and yet can be professional players. There's no way in a community that small that professional sport is feasible. Am I over-thinking this ...?

Lottiedoubtie Sun 01-Sep-13 16:34:47

Iismum, I think you widen the pool of potential players when you consider that wizards probably stay fitter for longer than muggles and so they can play professional sport for a longer period of time.

Also some British wizards are educated abroad.

NuggetofPurestGreen Sun 01-Sep-13 16:46:34

And we don't know that Hogwarts is the only wizarding school do we? Or do we?

There's also Ms Cackle's Academy for one wink

FreyaFridays Sun 01-Sep-13 17:20:00

Yes, Snape would have been around 31 at the start of PS... I think I will personally allow an exception for the casting of Alan Rickman, as he's just so damn good!... (And hot...)

Sirius and Lupin would have been 33-34 during the events of POA. Both casting disappointments to me, they should have been much hotter! (Not shallow at all...)

I'm not sure that the ages of Lily and James' set are actually stated through the books at all. Can't remember if dates of birth and death are mentioned on their graves in DH. Lupin is often described as "though still young, his hair was already streaked with grey". And Lily and James are stated several times to have "married straight out of Hogwarts", implying they were 18-19, and Harry was born soon after.

iismum Sun 01-Sep-13 19:57:48

That's a good point, lottie, but still it would only increase the potential field by a factor of, what, 2? 3? Surely not more than 4. So still tiny.

I'm not sure if its explicitly stated that Hogwarts is the only school, but it's heavily implied. Everything centres on Hogwarts, and no other school is ever mentioned.

Good point about Quidditch teams. Where did the Ireland the spring from?

And yes, by the time our generation have grown up there'll be absolutely nobody to do any commercial jobs and the whole economy will collapse...

Lottiedoubtie Sun 01-Sep-13 21:41:16

Very true that no other uk school is mentioned.

It's plausible however that there are more wizards abroad? And many more foreign schools. (Tri-wizard schools are specifically called the largest I think, suggesting others).

Maybe the England league is flooded with foreign players there's a precedent in the muggle world after all

NuggetofPurestGreen Sun 01-Sep-13 21:50:13

Yeah Mermaid cos Irish wizards seem to go to Hogwarts don't they? Well Seamus anyway grin. So there might not be an Irish wizard school.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sun 01-Sep-13 21:52:37

Seamus may well have been an Irish boy living in Britain though...

NuggetofPurestGreen Sun 01-Sep-13 22:23:28

Yeah Diseases was thinking that but for some reason I think he wasn't? Could be wrong though. Luna and Xenophilius (film versions) are Irish people living in Britain alright.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sun 01-Sep-13 22:27:45

I always assumed he lived in Britain but I don't think I have any basis for that belief. Interesting point.

olidusUrsus Mon 02-Sep-13 00:21:42

Hagrid called Hogwarts "the best wizarding school in Britain", or words to that effect, but J.K. does really heavily imply that it's the only wizarding school in Britain. However she does mention that it's not the only way to be educated in magic in the UK (I think she's referring to homeschooling there though, rather than other schools...).

ModeratelyObvious Mon 02-Sep-13 00:39:48

In Chamber of secrets, it says something about the five gryffindor second years (in the context ofthe boys' dormitory). So that backs up the 40 per year (though presumably the sorting isn't totally equal on house or gender splits)

BellaTheGooseIsDead Mon 02-Sep-13 00:52:03

ModeratelyObvious that's true.

I read your name as ModeratelyObliviate though. I need to stop reading these threads.

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 02-Sep-13 08:59:49

There is a list of the quidditch teams in "quidditch through the ages" although the number does seem unfeasibly large.

Mermaid I don't think they are supposed to but if she was in the company of adult wizards then she could have got away with it. It was explained once that the trace (the enchantment which detects underage magic) isn't very accurate and in wizarding families the ministry depend on the parents to control their offspring.

Or it could have been a once off, or involuntary magic which petunia remembered as particularly sour.

I'm not 100% sure either on thethe aunt Marge point - would have to double.check, but either the ministry were out to get Harry at that point or he was panicking that he had been expelled when actually he.hadn't.

DiseasesOfTheSheep Mon 02-Sep-13 10:04:59

The aunt Marge instance, Harry left before the ministry spoke to him and the matter was dismissed out of hand when he met Fudge at the leaky cauldron "we don't expel people for simple matters of blowing up aunts!"

However, when dobby dropped the hideous cake thing on the dursley's dinner party guests, they sent him a howler threatening to expel him if he used magic again outside of Hogwarts.

MortifiedAdams Mon 02-Sep-13 10:18:33

Re; Aunt Marge, Sirius Black was on the run. Harry,.terrified they would expel.him or worse, took flight so that he didnt have to surrender his wand.

Fudge was waiting for him and, relieved that he hadnt been murdered by Black, kept him safe in Diagon Alley and refused to punish him.

Had Black.not been on the run,he would have faced the usual sanctions.

Sparklymommy Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:33

There does seem to be an awful lot of inconsistency in the ministry.

Another point that has bugged me for years is that in the chamber o secrets, lucius Malfoy says to mr Weasley that he will see him at work. However where does it say ANYWHERE that Lucius works at the ministry? He always seems to be there, bribing/paying for info etc, but never WORKING.

FreyaFridays Mon 02-Sep-13 14:34:01

The one that gets me (and what a perfect day to mention this) is the dates for the start of the school year: the Hogwarts Express always leaves King's Cross on September 1st. The next day, Harry & Co. always start their lessons... and that day is ALWAYS a Monday! Does Hogwarts operate on a different calendar to us, whereby September 2nd is a Tuesday eternally? Granted, for the 2013 calendar, it is quite accurate!

MrsGeologist Mon 02-Sep-13 16:35:13

Wasn't Lucius a school governor briefly?

No idea what his actual job was though.

MrsGeologist Mon 02-Sep-13 16:52:30

Harry potter wiki implies that his position as school governor was his job at the ministry.

AintNobodyGotTimeFurThat Tue 03-Sep-13 18:47:42

<<joins in with Harry Potter obsession>>

Some great answers to some great questions here.

I think as far as the Hagrid comment goes that Hagrid was implying that every wizard who has turned bad has been a Slytherin, not that there is never a bad wizard from another house. I think I read somewhere that some of Voldemort's supporters were in different houses, so this would ring true.

Plus weren't all the Marauder's in Gryffindor? If that is the case, then Wormtail (Peter) was a Gryffindor so therefore that would go again with the 'bad wizards are from Slytherin' camp.

You're right - I was remembering him getting a letter saying he was expelled, but I think I'm thinking of OOTP when he's "expelled" for summoning a patronus in front of Dud.

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