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To think this major high street retailer is wrong and the store manager was out of order

(199 Posts)
Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 18:49:53

I have been looking for a dress for ages and finally found one on Friday that makes me feel amazing. It is pretty much a bog standard dress really but with clever folds and a belt that sets it off perfectly. Except when I wore it at the weekend I realised the belt is stupidly small and squashed me that much I had to take it off. It didn't look the same without the belt though.

I went down to the shop to ask them to exchange the belt for a bigger one and the cashier said that a lot of people had said the same thing but she would have to check with her manager. The manager comes out and refuses saying that if she gives me a different belt then it would make another dress faulty so no she won't exchange the belt. She can't order another belt from the manufacturer either but would give 20% off the dress. I explained that no, I just wanted a belt that actually fit me because the dress is just not the same without it and I want to keep the dress. She looked me up and down and sneeringly said that SHE had tried the belt on, was the same size as the dress and it wasn't big on her at all. I retorted that my friend who is a size 8-10 struggled to fasten the belt too so therefore it wasn't me buying a too small dress. She then said it was only me with the problem and no-one else had complained. I said that is not what her cashier had said so she glared at the cashier and said she should have fed that back to her.

The end result I that she refused to swap the belt and I now have a dress that just isn't the same. I am sorely tempted to go to another tore, try a bigger dress on and just switch the bloody thing over myelf even though I know this isn't right really.

I know there are bigger issues than this but I feel really peeved because the dress cost more than I would usually spend and I really love it with that frigging belt grin

SenoritaViva Tue 27-Aug-13 18:53:02

She was rude but I can see why she couldn't exchange it. Have you tried calling head office for their advice?

Otherwise try your sorely tempted option...

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 18:55:04

In the end I asked for their head offices details so if I don't take the sorely tempted route then I will have to write or call them instead. What a palava for a bloody belt though

IComeFromALandDownUnder Tue 27-Aug-13 18:57:41

She was rude but I can see why she couldn't exchange just the belt. Did you try it on before you bought it? Could the belt be altered or could you try a different belt with it?

blueraincoat Tue 27-Aug-13 18:58:00

I really don't know what you want here? Different people come in different shapes even with the same dress size and what works for some doesn't always work for others. They offered you 20% off which I think is more than generous of them really because the belt wasn't faulty just didn't fit your shape. Can you really not find a belt anywhere that matches and fits you?

Yes the manager was rude. Complain about her if that is what happened, but seriously you are being ridiculous about the belt.

TheDetective Tue 27-Aug-13 18:58:38

It's not fit for purpose if the belt does not fit the correct sized person/dress.

She should have refunded as faulty.

Take it further.

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 18:59:51

I did try it on but was in a big hurry so kind of put the belt round me to see what it looked like without actually fastening it as I was late to meet a friend. The thing is it really is tiny. Every single person who buys the dress is going to have the same problem and I feel it is poor customer service when they made the belt too small and refuse to do anything about it.

blueraincoat Tue 27-Aug-13 19:00:35

Is this Next by any chance?

I can see why she couldn't exchange the belt as well, although she didn't need to be snotty. Is there room on the belt for you to make another hole or is it not that type of belt?
Head office is probably your best bet.

Edendance Tue 27-Aug-13 19:01:30

Could you look out for a similar belt that would fit? There's so many belts out there (and on the internet) that I'm sure one would fit like you want it too! I had a similar thing once and didn't manage to get the belt either- I feel your pain!

BrokenSunglasses Tue 27-Aug-13 19:02:36

I think you should have been entitled to a refund on something that wasn't fit for purpose, but I don't think they should have had to give you an exchange. She's right that it would make another product faulty, but it should have been up to you whether you wanted to keep it as it is, or get money or credit back.

Can you link dress please, just cos I'm nosy wink

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 19:03:42

Its hard to explain but the belt sets off the dress in a way that another belt would be a poor substitute. Plus it is very narrow and fits in loops at the waist. It is not me being a different shape, apparently lots of people have said it is too short according to the cashier and my friend who is 1-2 dress sizes smaller struggled to get it on too. I also feel it is not fit for purpose though the manager said it is a trimming and not counted as part of the dress as such even though they advertise it on their website and in store with the belt firmly attached

BuskersCat Tue 27-Aug-13 19:06:44

Last time this happened to me I just bought a new belt. It didn't even cross my mind that maybe it wasn't fit for purpose, just that my body didn't fit the belt. They are a few quid.

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 19:09:01

I know but I LOVE this belt <<stamps feet>> !!!

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Tue 27-Aug-13 19:09:17

I'd have taken the %20 and gone and bought a new belt. £4.00 in Primark grin

CoffeeTea103 Tue 27-Aug-13 19:09:47

Did you not try on the dress beforehand. Even if you didn't, if it doesn't fit you it doesn't mean something is wrong with it.

Either change the dress entirely, use another belt, or move on.

TheDetective Tue 27-Aug-13 19:12:04

Where is it from?

LiegeAndLief Tue 27-Aug-13 19:12:41

Is there room to get extra holes stamped in the belt (if it's that kind of belt?). Our lovely local cobbler will do this for free.

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 19:12:51

River Island. Am I allowed to say that?

mercibucket Tue 27-Aug-13 19:14:50

are you sure it is the same length as other belts with thst size dress? maybe someone already swapped it

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 19:15:22

Its not got holes sadly. It got popper fastenings so not adjustable. Oh well, is either swap it myself or take the 20% and try to find another I guess. Still don't think I am wrong though smile

OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly Tue 27-Aug-13 19:16:20

no, you're wrong. The dress comes with the belt, you can't walk in and get another belt. 20% off was a great offer, you should go and find yourself a new belt with it.

Rooners Tue 27-Aug-13 19:17:21

If you link to it I BET we can find you a similar belt smile

blueemerald Tue 27-Aug-13 19:17:27

Swap the belts. I would.

Rooners Tue 27-Aug-13 19:18:06

Also you could go over her head to head office CS - they might be willing to send you another sized belt, you never know.

Rooners Tue 27-Aug-13 19:18:38

Don't swap the belts. You might well find yourself hauled up by security people, they usually have CCTV in changing rooms.

PuppyMonkey Tue 27-Aug-13 19:19:49

Popper fastening belts? confused

What is the world coming to? wink

SubliminalMassaging Tue 27-Aug-13 19:20:54

Not all size 8s, 10s, 12s etc. are created equal. Some things are cut for hourglass shapes, some are cut for less defined figures with thicker waists and narrower hip ratios. (much more common in my experience) This dress is clearly cut to suit the former and you are clearly the latter. Horses for courses. I get fed up with having everything too big on the waist if it fits my bum, but there is nothing I can do about it. You've worn it now, so just buy a new, slightly bigger belt and be done with it.

OnTheBottomWithAWomensWeekly Tue 27-Aug-13 19:24:18

CCTV in changing rooms? Watching people undress? I don't bloody think so. This is not America.

Rooners Tue 27-Aug-13 19:26:12

Oh sorry blush I just assumed that's what the little ball thingies on the ceiling were!

picnicbasketcase Tue 27-Aug-13 19:27:07

What's so amazingly special about the belt though? Is it a certain colour or pattern that you can't get anywhere else?

VivaLeBeaver Tue 27-Aug-13 19:27:46

Sorry but yabu. If she gives you a belt off a bigger size dress then they have a dress without a belt which they can't sell.

I've had the same problem before which I realised when I tried it on so I just didn't buy the dress.

SubliminalMassaging Tue 27-Aug-13 19:28:16

They are water sprinklers for fire I think. Although I always wonder if they are secret cameras. hmm

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 19:29:22

Eeek - do they really have CCTV in the actual changing room itself? Please tell me there is not a security guard in every store perving on people getting changed?!!

Link to dress

www.riverisland.com/women/dresses/party--evening-dresses/Black-sleeveless-slinky-wrap-dress-640683

Going to be in the kitchen for a bit but any comments / suggestions are welcome smile

BuskersCat Tue 27-Aug-13 19:32:36

Some shops do have CCTV in their changing rooms, they HAVE to have a sign warning you of this though

VoiceOfRaisin Tue 27-Aug-13 19:33:32

I can see why you want to change it but you need to accept it was your fault for not trying it on properly before you bought. In any case, if you HAD tried it on beforehand, it sounds like you would still a) need to have taken the belt that came with the dress as they wouldn't be able to swap it or b) put up with and buy it with the too-small belt. 20% off seems more than fair. Not sure why you think they can take a belt off another dress and so leave themselves with an unsellable item.

PS Don't steal a belt the right size. That would be immoral and illegal.

Hopasholic Tue 27-Aug-13 19:36:02

Order a larger one on-line, switch belt & return ( chances are next size up will end up round your ankles)

Alternatively buy some sculpting passion killer knickers grin

HKat Tue 27-Aug-13 19:36:25

I want that dress myself now! It's lovely :-)

Are you sure that the belt wasn't mixed up with one from a smaller dress?

StuntGirl Tue 27-Aug-13 19:40:17

You didn't try it on beforehand.

She didn't have to offer you anything so the 20% for a dress you've already paid for and worn was very generous.

Her attitude is a different matter and you can complain about that if you feel you need to.

But she's not in the wrong otherwise.

Try your clothes on before you wear them out in future. If it doesn't fit, buy something else.

That belt looks more of an accessory than pracital iykwim? In as you could just alter it at the back (or get a useful friend to) and then you'd still have the detail at the front.

Or else find another belt.

practical!

HotCrossPun Tue 27-Aug-13 19:46:14
Spatsky Tue 27-Aug-13 19:46:42

I bet if you shopped around you could find a belt close enough to work beautifully with that dress. It's a nice belt but generic enough that you can surely find something pretty similar. Have a look on asos.

BoredNinja Tue 27-Aug-13 19:47:16

Assuming your dress is a 12, going on the dimensions given on their website the belt should fit a waist of 29 inches. If the belt's smaller than that then yes they've made a production error.

Not sure that helps if the manager won't acknowledge it though!

happinessisfree Tue 27-Aug-13 19:47:58

Similar

I've seen this instore, quite nice. Popper fastening at the back

HotCrossPun Tue 27-Aug-13 19:48:12
Spatsky Tue 27-Aug-13 19:50:40

http://www.asos.com/ASOS/ASOS-Link-Elastic-Waist-Belt/Prod/pgeproduct.aspx?iid=2718553&SearchQuery=belts&Rf-200=4&Rf-700=1000&sh=0&pge=1&pgesize=200&sort=-1&clr=Black ???

Spatsky Tue 27-Aug-13 19:51:29

Sorry, can't seem to do links properly

LRG1990 Tue 27-Aug-13 20:06:31

I bought this dress at the weekend & I have the exact same problem!! I bought the size 14 if that helps ? I was going to email head office about it. The belt is tiny & doesn't even go halfway round my waist! The cashier also told me that loads of people have said the same!!

Somethingtothinkabout Tue 27-Aug-13 20:33:10

OP and LRG You should both email them with your complaint and see if they respond saying "nobody else has complained" grin

LRG23 Tue 27-Aug-13 21:06:12

Yes I will do it tomorrow & let you know their reply smile

Mia4 Tue 27-Aug-13 21:11:42

I would say YABU but if the cashier admitted they'd had lots of complaints then perhaps it's a flaw and many dresses have too small belts? Buy another dress with a belt that fits, then take back said dress with your belt. Not all that honest but you get what you want.

Notalone Tue 27-Aug-13 21:34:15

Thank you LRG. Not just me then smile. I wanted to switch it for a size 14 as the belt will probably be snug but at least I would be able to breathe in it. They only had a 14 in red but the belt is the same so not a problem if I do a switch. It can't be stealing if I have paid and am just switching surely?

Thank you for replacement belt suggestions. The New Look belts don't seem to have the detail all the way round though and the ASOS one seems like it may be too wide but it is lovely.

Please update LRG and let us know what they say as I won't be able to get back in store til Sat now so if they give you a replacement then this is what I will do too

skittycat Tue 27-Aug-13 21:48:40

Sorry but I think you are being majorly unreasonable to consider swapping the belt in store with one from a larger size. Essentially you would be damaging something in store meaning the company could no longer sell it at it's full cost. You were given the chance to take discount off the dress, which I personally think it reasonable considering you'd both tried it on and worn it before attempting to exchange.

Fair enough to contact head office of the company to explain the situation - they may be able to supply a larger size of this special belt considering it appears to be a wide spread issue. But going in store and swapping the belt over yourself is both dishonest and unreasonable.

saggyhairyarse Tue 27-Aug-13 22:55:16

The dress is obviously faulty if the cashier said people have said the same and so has another Mumsnetter. If you really like the dress, take the 20% off and buy the belt that Juniper linked to. I dont think the Manager was unreasonable, you cant swap it round and make another dress faulty especially as the belt would be mega small for a larger dress.

bunchoffives Tue 27-Aug-13 23:43:33

People who are saying the OP is unreasonable - the dress is faulty because the dress and belt are obviously not made to the same size. OP is entitled to a full refund under the Sale of Goods Act.

I'd go the sorely tempted route OP. The dress is lovely imo btw.

StuntGirl Tue 27-Aug-13 23:46:10

Only if that's true.

Could you measure the belt OP?

jacks365 France Wed 28-Aug-13 00:02:04

Switching the belts would be shopping lifting, however you look at it you are taking something of theirs. It is faulty under the sale of goods act but you would have to return the whole dress which you don't want to do to claim a refund over that and you can't force the retailer to 'repair' the item they gave you a valid option. Yanbu to make a complaint about the manager though.

neunundneunzigluftballons Wed 28-Aug-13 00:12:04

You don't think somone else got their first and changed the belt of a smaller size dress. Can you give us a look

neunundneunzigluftballons Wed 28-Aug-13 00:13:18

Sorry I missed you did

Icelollycraving Wed 28-Aug-13 07:57:11

I think you've been offered as much as the manager needed to offer for goodwill. Ywbu to swap belts with another dress.
Also, it is entirely possible they would recognise you,can you imagine being stopped by security?

VoiceOfRaisin Wed 28-Aug-13 09:42:50

bunchoffives you might be right that the dress is faulty if the belt is clearly a different size from the dress but the OP has WORN the dress anyway. That constitutes acceptance through conduct. She cannot now claim under the Sale of Goods Act. Had she instead got home, found the belt was wrongly sized, not worn the dress and then taken it back then I would agree that she would be owed a 100% refund.

OP you can rely on Head Office good will and ask them to provide a larger belt. They may or may not be able to but you have no RIGHT to demand it.

I hope you get a suitable belt one way or another.

bunchoffives Wed 28-Aug-13 23:00:10

That's not true either Voice

The dress would have to be returned unworn if you simply wanted a refund because you didn't like it, ie you were returning under the shop's own returns policy.

But under the Sale of Goods Act you have the right to return if the goods are faulty in a reasonable length of time. The reasonable length of time varies according to the product. So for a newish car it would normally be up to 12 months. For a food item it might be 3 days. I think it would be more than reasonable to wear a dress once, realise the belt is a different size to the dress and therefore it is faulty.

The first point of call is Consumer helpline 08454 04 05 06 who are really good ime.

StuntGirl Thu 29-Aug-13 00:05:29

I suspect its simply down to sizing and there is in fact nothing wrong with the belt. H&M sizes come up small, for example, especially across the bust so I can never find anything to fit me there. Do I complain about faulty goods just because they cut to the smaller end of the scale, or accept it and shop elsewhere?

Talk of consumer rights is silly, especially when the OP didn't try it on in the first place, wore it despite it not fitting and is now complaining. Chalk it up to experience and make sure your clothes fit before you wear them out in future.

insummeritrains Thu 29-Aug-13 07:43:01

Go to primark. They do thin belts, really cheap that work well with dresses from elsewhere.

The one on your dress does have lovely detailing though, I can see why you're annoyed.

Catsize Thu 29-Aug-13 07:52:38

The dress is not faulty. OP got the dress and the belt on, wore the dress with no problems initially, but then the belt became uncomfortable. Presumably because it wasn't that good a fit after all. OP, did you sit down in the dress when you tried it on? Did it feel uncomfortable after a meal out by any chance? These things should have been factored in when you tried it on. Sorry, but I think offering someone a decent discount after they bought a dress that doesn't fit their shape is pretty generous.

Catsize Thu 29-Aug-13 07:54:38

Yeah, swap the belts. Then someone will complain that the belt they have with their dress is too small and not fit for purpose. Genius. Not.

MrsCampbellBlack Thu 29-Aug-13 07:58:12

Surely as someone else said, its just that belt was designed for an hourglass shape.

I'm generally a certain size but if something has a very defined waist - it doesn't fit me as I'm pretty thick waisted.

I'd email RI with your comments but then go and buy a different belt.

Nice dress though.

Moxiegirl Thu 29-Aug-13 07:58:38

I'd be swapping the belts, immoral or not wink

VoiceOfRaisin Thu 29-Aug-13 09:05:53

bunchofchives the word "reasonable" is important. If there is a fault that you can't notice for a while (I dunno, eg your car's brakes fail after a month, or the dress shrinks when you wash it) then of course you can take it back and demand a refund despite the time delay. Likewise, if the OP hadn't had occasion to wear the dress for a month and so didn't notice the belt for a month then she could ask for a refund despite the delay)

However, it is NOT reasonable, when the fault is patent (a belt that doesn't fit) to WEAR the dress anyway and THEN take it back claiming it is faulty. If you use goods AFTER their fault becomes apparent then you are accepting them in that condition.

:-) End of legal rant.

Bumblebee333 Thu 29-Aug-13 09:06:33

Haven't read the other replies so not sure if this has been suggested but is it possible that someone else has been swapping small belts for bigger belts in that store. the thing you plan to do? which I would do by the way.

LustyBusty Thu 29-Aug-13 09:29:14

How about something like this?
I think it should be thin enough to go through the loops, it's adjustable and has "interest". I don't thing you should swap belts instore, although I understand why you'd want to, it just feels like shoplifting to me.

Feminine Thu 29-Aug-13 09:30:39

You can't just swap a belt from another dress!

Someone else will end up with the same problem.

But, they really need to sort this out for you....

Feminine Thu 29-Aug-13 09:31:59

Seems like many of you would swap confused

Selfish <<tuts>>

TSSDNCOP Thu 29-Aug-13 09:33:48

I would have taken the 20% and bought a belt in Next.

emuloc Thu 29-Aug-13 09:40:25

The shop in question gave 20% off which they did not haye to do. YABU go and get another belt elsewhere and next time try before you buy!

LittleBearPad Thu 29-Aug-13 09:43:44

You can't swap the belt. It would be theft.

Call RI head office and explain.

If they won't do anything then what's the belt made of - it may stretch if its leather or if another fabric you could adjust it/get it adjusted. The 20% offered would pay for thr adjustments.

Golferman Thu 29-Aug-13 09:53:37

Buy another one with belt that fits then take orginal one back with new receipt and get full refund, simples.

soverylucky Thu 29-Aug-13 09:54:35

I can see why they wouldn't swap the belt. If the belt is crucial to the garment but doesn't fit - it seems as if it doesn't fit rather than being faulty.
I would have exchanged the dress and got another one and check the belt carefully.
If they won't exchange the dress because you have worn it I would take the 20% they have offered.

I wouldn't switch the belt though.

Notalone Thu 29-Aug-13 14:13:31

Hmm some really good belt suggestions here.

I am still thinking about what to do. We measured the belt in store and it was the same as the other size 12 so not switched by someone else. I did try the dress on but didn't try the belt properly more fool me. The idea of buying another and the taking the original back wouldn't work because the dress would need to be a 14 an I am a 12 so if I did this I would still effectively be switching the belt anyway. I am not sure how it would be classed as shop lifting though if I am switching as opposed to taking another one. I am not trying to be argumentative about this issue, I just don't understand how it would be if I am not taking anything extra, but please correct me as I am genuinely confused.

Wonder if there has been any job with head office yet

LittleBearPad Thu 29-Aug-13 16:27:14

You would be taking something that doesn't belong to you and by taking the size 14 belt off and leaving the 12 you are making the size 14 dress unsaleable. You would then cost RI profit. How is it difficult to understand.

You don't walk into a car dealership with a BMW 3 series and swap it for a 5 series. Extreme example I know.

fragola Thu 29-Aug-13 16:28:19

Of course it would be shop lifting! You paid for the belt that went with the size 12 dress. You haven't paid for the belt that went with the size 14 dress. Whether or not you leave the size 12 belt in the shop is irrelevant!

mignonette Thu 29-Aug-13 16:31:12

I hate all this 'nobody else has complained' nonsense.

Somebody always has to be the first!

Name and shame the company. River Island said the same to my son when a pair of shoes fell apart one week after wearing them.

Ridiculous in this age of cut throat business to not be excellent at customer service. It is an art to be proud of after all.

Notalone Thu 29-Aug-13 17:26:09

Actually to be fair I don't really care about their profit. As Mignonet said - what ever happened to customer service? They produced a dress which has an accompanying belt that is not just the wrong fit but actually totally the wrong size. Other people in the store I purchased my dress from had commented and another mumsnetter who bought the same dress (page 2?) found the belt would not even fit halfway around her waist. She had also been told that plenty of others had found the same thing. The whole, oh well, that's just tough, attitude of the store stinks. Yes, they may have offered 20%, but all I want is the belt that is advertised with the dress to fit the dress. As I said before, a friend who is a good 2 sizes smaller than me could not get it on properly either. I really don't think I am asking too much to want the belt to fit.

BoredNinja Thu 29-Aug-13 17:40:40

But does the belt measure 29 inches round? That's the circumference of a River Island size 12 waist. If it's smaller than 29 inches then yes, it's the wrong size. If not, then it just doesn't suit your shape...

Notalone Thu 29-Aug-13 18:26:19

Sorry Boredninja. You have asked that already and I didn't answer before did I? Erm, I don't know because I don't have a tape measure at the mo (mine went walkies and I never got round to replacing it) Damn. Is there anything else I can use as a yardstick? I am guessing not possibly hmm

River island's belts on clothing are ridiculously small. I just bought a maxi skirt with a belt from there and couldn't even get it on the first hole. Skirt itself fits perfectly.

LittleBearPad Thu 29-Aug-13 19:11:27

In which case call head office. That's what you do. You don't swap bits of clothing as and how you wish.

CockBollocks Thu 29-Aug-13 19:26:34

Problem is, if the store manager had given you the belt from the 14 then that dress would have been rendered useless and would have been returned to head office as store faulty, which IME goes against the store.

I assume that she offered you a refund? Being reasonable I think that's all you could expect from the store - although I would have offered to ring head office for you and explain the situation to see if that got anywhere.

LRG23 Thu 29-Aug-13 20:05:30

I have had a reply from ri head office. They basically just said I was to return the dress for a refund. That's not what I want. I want a belt that fits the dress properly!! I have just replied to them so will let u know

Mumoftwoyoungkids Thu 29-Aug-13 22:31:52

Can you compare the length of the belt with the size of the dress around the waist? Ie is the belt smaller than the dress?

Notalone Sat 31-Aug-13 23:11:34

Well I went in to the store today and I switched the belt. I took a size 14 and 16 into the changing room. The size 14 belt was a perfect fit despite me being probably a size 11 (if that actually existed) but the belt on the size 16 was smaller than the one I already had on a 12 dress. Either their sizings are totally off or someone else had already switched before me.

Do I feel bad? No, not really. Sorry to all those who said I should just suck it up but RI are a huge chain. I am a lone parent on a very small budget. It may only be a £35 dress but that is a lot of money for me. Why should I take the hit and have a dress that is not as advertised when they were the ones who messed the sizes up in the first place? I will feel bad if another unsuspecting person picks up the other dress without trying it on but the belt is definitely smaller than their miniscule size 12 so if the worst comes to the worst they will definitely be entitled to a switch at minimum. I will probably get flamed for this but as far as I am concerned RI need to review their sizes and I will never shop there again (despite seeing some lovely other shirts and tops on my way out)

I think that is the most logical solution for the retailer. If they have a load of dresses with all of the belts 1 size too small then by switching the belts down a size they will end up with lots of saleable stock plus a few large dresses and tiny belts. Otherwise they just have lots of disgruntled customers and reject stock. It's just a shame you had to do it yourself.

WafflyVersatile Sun 01-Sep-13 00:09:38
WafflyVersatile Sun 01-Sep-13 00:10:10
ouryve Sun 01-Sep-13 00:12:12

People are all different shapes, OP. Couldn't you just accept the 20% and use it to buy a belt that would fit?

mynameismskane Sun 01-Sep-13 00:12:27

Just get another dress abs exchange belt!

WafflyVersatile Sun 01-Sep-13 00:22:28
LongGoneBeforeDaylight Sun 01-Sep-13 00:23:38

Swapping the belt fits the legal definition of theft. I certainly wouldn't post about having done so on a forum.

sureitis Sun 01-Sep-13 00:49:50

I can't believe you went in and swapped belts. Now some poor unsuspecting customer will buy the dress with your old belt that definitely won't fit. They could be buying it for that night and not try it on in the store and won't know til they get home. I would be gutted if that happened to me.

Your issue is with RI and you're letting that cloud your judgement (at least I hope so!).

It IS theft.

And I also can't believe you've came back on here to tell everyone!

StuntGirl Sun 01-Sep-13 01:06:13

River Island may size small, and the manager may not have given you the exact desired outcome you wanted, but neither have acted illegally. Well done, you're a thief.

LittleBearPad Sun 01-Sep-13 08:32:15

You're a thief. You were offered two acceptable options, return or 20% off and you chose instead to steal.

Why do you offer up the fact that you're a lone parent on a small budget as mitigation? It isn't. It makes no difference and its very odd that you think it does.

CheeryCherry Sun 01-Sep-13 08:52:42

Oh dear...I can see this thread now spiraling out of control...

Panzee Sun 01-Sep-13 09:12:58

Flaming from me as well. Rotten behaviour.

jessieagain Sun 01-Sep-13 09:33:04

I can't believe you stole a different size belt. So many of those links of belts were lovely and could have easily worked confused

VoiceOfRaisin Sun 01-Sep-13 09:57:10

Pleading being a lone parent as an excuse for stealing is an insult to all other lone parents. Nobody MADE you keep the dress - you should have not worn it and got a full refund. My first ever biscuit

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 09:59:50

You should be ashamed of yourself.

you are a thief.

How the hell can you come back here and write rationally about it confused

Hang your head in shame woman!

Leverette Sun 01-Sep-13 10:11:33

Oh for goodness sake just stop with the abuse people, it's vile.

littlemisswise Sun 01-Sep-13 10:12:54

So instead of taking the refund of £7 and buying a different belt you decided to steal a belt?

Well done, OP!

Silverfoxballs Sun 01-Sep-13 10:19:46

Your moral compass is off op.

I also agree that your insulting lone parents.

Well, contrary to other posters' opinion, I think you did the right thing OP. Maybe not the 'right' thing in a uptight moral judgmental sense, but then I don't think RI was being 'right' in that sense either.
You paid for a dress that is advertised as coming with a belt, you bought the dress in a size 12 (that fits you), so you are entitled to a belt that is the same waist size as the dress you paid for!
If RI don't match their waist belt sizes to the waist of their dresses then that is their own problem to deal with, not yours!

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 10:35:35

thedinner and now op has given that same problem to another unsuspecting woman.

Its not cool.

It is harsh to tell her, I agree. That does not stop her needing to know IMO.

Notalone Sun 01-Sep-13 10:42:38

Thank you Dinner and Leverette. I am going to ask for this thread to be deleted now before it does all kick off. As said earlier, I did try to do it the correct way but the solution they offered was not what I wanted. or what the other mnetter wanted further upon here. All we wanted was the dress as advertised. The belt on the larger dress was smaller than the one I already had so who knows what happened there but I suspect I am not the only one

tiggytape Sun 01-Sep-13 10:44:55

The belt was too small. It may be designed very hourglass figures
Some clothes are designed like that eg some dresses are no good if you have big/small boobs even if they fit perfectly on the bum. Some boots are no good if you have fat/think calves even if they fit perfectly on the foot.

The shop offered you a full refund (if you gave the dress back) or 20% discount (letting you keep the dress and buy a new belt if you wanted). That was totally fair.

What you have done is totally unjustified. You will cause a lot of hassle for someone else who will have to return the dress after they buy it. They too may be on a low income / love the dress / feel upset / not have time to go to the shops twice to sort it out. You have also stolen the profit from that dress by making it unsaleable.

Yes it is annoying the belt didn't fit you or a lot of other people either but tough - if that's the belt that comes with it and it doesn't fit then don't buy it or accept a refund. You can't do your own mix and match package from all their stock until you end up with somethng you're happy with and sod everyone else.

TheRealJules Sun 01-Sep-13 10:59:02

Exactly, you now have the dress as advertised.
You haven't stolen, you have a dress with a belt, not two belts, exactly what you paid for.
Ignore the do gooders on here.

TheRealJules Sun 01-Sep-13 11:00:26

It's River Islands mistake by making belts far too small for the dress.

Notalone Sun 01-Sep-13 11:05:10

Thank you TheRealJules. I expected a flaming but it still doesn't feel very nice. I am very very short on time and was only going past because of something DS had on. When I went back early this week it was on a rare lunch break from work. I really don't have the time to shop around for a new belt or buy one online because my letter box is tiny and even a trip to the sorting office is at least an hours round trip.

TheRealJules Sun 01-Sep-13 11:08:16

Well if you listen to everyone else you should hand yourself in and do your time inside!!!

tiggytape Sun 01-Sep-13 11:11:21

You buy clothes that suit your shape. If clothes come in a set of any kind and one element doesn't fit you, then you don't buy that set.

It isn't necessarily a fault as all - some size 10 people are very thin on the waist but still a size 10 everywhere else whereas others can be a size 10 but with practically no waist at all.
This dress is perhaps designed for people whose waists are considerably smaller than their correct bust/hip sizes just as some dresses are designed for those who are a tall size 10 or a busty size 10 or a petite size 10.

The OP hasn't corrected the problem at all. She should have got a refund as offered. She has just ruined one of the othr dresses someone else will buy and have to return and stolen the money that the ruined dress would have made.

UnicornsNotRiddenByGrownUps Sun 01-Sep-13 11:14:04

Does the belt go round you OP? Is it possible to get an extra hole put on the belt.

This happened to me with a Debenhams dress but thankfully it was leather. Left to go to a wedding reception and realised I was porkier sitting down than I was standing up. Stopped at a cobblers and they punched an extra hole for free?

Sorry the link you gave doesn't work on my phone so I can't see what your belt is made from!

McNewPants2013 Sun 01-Sep-13 11:16:29

Well done on stealing the belt, As a lone parent i would say it 100% your responsibility to teach your child right from wrong.

poorbuthappy Sun 01-Sep-13 11:21:12

Yes so remember to sit your child down and tell them exactly what you did.
What a bizarre comment.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 01-Sep-13 11:30:59

"I stole and now I'm upset people are criticising me for stealing, so I'll get the thread deleted."

McNewPants2013 Sun 01-Sep-13 11:33:46

i was being sarcastic.

samlamb Sun 01-Sep-13 11:51:22

Notalone. I would have done the same. All of these ott posts about breaking the law make me laugh!!

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 01-Sep-13 15:57:42

It was still stealing however you dress it up but go on, justify it to yourself if it makes you feel better. wink

StuntGirl Sun 01-Sep-13 16:26:10

Thing is, the police are hardly going to come knocking on your door or anything, but it doesn't make it any less wrong.

Not a do gooder. I just have morals.

LittleBearPad Sun 01-Sep-13 16:28:51

And now your letter box is too small. FFS.

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 18:18:05

You. Tried. It. On.

And now you're trying it on.

biscuit

TSSDNCOP Sun 01-Sep-13 18:22:34

Thief.

Hope you think that every time you wear your dress.

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 18:29:03

Oooh interesting moral dilemma.

You declined the 20%/£7 and swapped the belt.

<ponders>

I think this is OK.

Belt probably costs them £3.

TwoMuchTwoYoung Sun 01-Sep-13 18:34:49

She exchanged a faulty belt for a non faulty belt.
no theft involved.

Catsize Sun 01-Sep-13 18:35:01

What an awful thing to do. Would have been preferable to just steal a belt (which you did) than swap it. As someone with mobility problems, I often can't be faffed with changing rooms and will take something home to try on. I would have noticed a missing belt but not a smaller one and would then have the inconvenience and physical pain of having to take it back on crutches or wheelchair because of your selfishness. I know that chances are that the purchaser will not be like me, but if they buy it for a night out that night or first date in good faith, you will have spoiled it.
Selfish. Selfish. Selfish.
We are all different shapes. Sometimes boots don't fit my legs, or tops gape at my chest in my 'correct' size. Or I am too tall for most clothes. But hell, I have a great waist. Very hourglass. Perhaps the dress would suit me!
Grow up OP. Spoilt brattish 'I want I want I want' behaviour I am afraid.

Catsize Sun 01-Sep-13 18:36:19

Twomuch, there is no suggestion the belt was faulty. Just didn't suit her shape. Has rendered the larger dress unsaleable, unless the purchaser has extra thin waist.

ClaraOswald Sun 01-Sep-13 18:45:21

The belt wasn't faulty. It was cut for someone shaped differently to the OP.

By swapping the belts, she was taking an item that was not supplied with the item purchased, therefore she stole it.

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 18:47:18

Trouble is River Island shouldn't have dug themselves this hole.

Item was sold as seen; no need to offer 20% refund.

By conceding they are £7 "in the wrong" this now gives OP wiggle room.

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 18:54:47

RI probably did it out of good will don't you think?

Annoying as it may have been, I honestly can not fathom how op thinks it was fair play to arse up a shipping trip for another woman! confused

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 19:00:08

They still dug a £7 size hole. wink

Shoppers should try items on.

It's OK to fuck men over ?

StuntGirl Sun 01-Sep-13 19:00:52

Jesus, on another thread people were complaining that a shop should discount 50% as a goodwill gesture even though they didn't have to, now a shop does offer a goodwill gesture and they're still in the wrong? Whatever.

Leverette Sun 01-Sep-13 19:01:58

By the sound of it, River Island are fucking over every person who buys this dress without carefully trying it first.

StuntGirl Sun 01-Sep-13 19:02:55

What, like every other item ever? You have to try clothes on to know if they fit/suit. If you take your chances you take your chances and deal with it.

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 19:07:53

cumfy in what context? wink

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 19:08:15

They're not in the wrong per se, they've just made a rod for their own back Stuntgirl.

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 19:10:08

What, in what context Feminine ?

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 19:12:02

comfy you asked if it was ever okay to "fuck men over"

nicely derails the thread

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 19:13:38

When I said that op had made it difficult for other woman, I said women as they mostly wear dresses these days...

Arnie123 Sun 01-Sep-13 19:19:34

Why not just buy another belt?

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 19:20:15

I just rather sensed that it wouldn't quite have been the same for you if the potential purchaser were more likely to have been a male.

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 19:22:12

Ah but Arnie, she sort of has given them £7 and a small belt for their large belt.

Arnie123 Sun 01-Sep-13 19:26:25

Shit happens it is only £7

Arnie123 Sun 01-Sep-13 19:27:50

Sorry did not read all the thread...am quite interested to see what it says now

StuntGirl Sun 01-Sep-13 19:30:00

A male is very unlikely to fit into clothes cut for a female shape, I'm sure a cross dressing male deals with this frequently and has solutions. Like buying bigger belts.

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 19:32:41

cumfy huh?

What on earth made you think that?

I am totally perplexed.

We were talking about a dress the item of clothing normally chosen by a female. Sorry if you are a bloke and love them too!

Arnie123 Sun 01-Sep-13 19:33:01

Jeez dickheads accusing someone of theft

Feminine Sun 01-Sep-13 19:35:04

How would you describe the situation then Arnie?

FunLovinBunster Sun 01-Sep-13 20:52:20

OP you asked for people's opinions.
Your attitude and behaviour are unreasonable.
Taking the belt off another dress is theft.
If you haven't got the guts to put up with the feedback from this post then perhaps you should return the belt to the store.
Stop whining and stop shoplifting.

TwoMuchTwoYoung Sun 01-Sep-13 20:56:51

Op has explained, as has another buyer of the same dress, that the belt is faulty. It is the wrong size for the dress. River island have admitted they have had a lot of complaints.

Therefore the op exchanged a faulty belt for the correct belt.
Please read the whole thread before posting.

FunLovinBunster Sun 01-Sep-13 20:59:57

I have read the post.
OP has taken a belt that did not come with the original dress she purchased.
She intends to keep it.
That is theft.

TwoMuchTwoYoung Sun 01-Sep-13 21:14:26

Please read the whole thread before posting.

FunLovinBunster Sun 01-Sep-13 21:17:14

If the belt is faulty then return the whole dress.
Don't steal another belt. Two wrongs don't make a right.

cumfy Sun 01-Sep-13 21:30:33

Two belts make a fight, though.grin

candycoatedwaterdrops Sun 01-Sep-13 21:35:53

If it wasn't theft, then why did the OP do it sneakily in the changing rooms and not in the shop store?

Catsize Sun 01-Sep-13 21:45:55

twomuch, not sure who you are addressing re:reading the whole thread, but I have. It seems a feature of this dress that some people have had problems with the belt. Perhaps it is smaller than usual. Perhaps as others have said, it is just designed for a different shape. The fact that the OP has only had to go up one size is indicative that the belt is fine but not suited to everyone. River Island seem to have had some complaints to one particular staff member, how many is unclear. I have quite wide feet. Doesn't make narrow shoes faulty. Likewise, this belt is not faulty, just too small for some. OP wore it initially and had to take it off later due to discomfort. Seems it is not that way off at all.

jessieagain Sun 01-Sep-13 23:18:03

It is theft because the op originally asked the sale assistant if she could swap them but the sale assistant said no.

She then went and swapped them herself without the sale assistant knowing.

This makes it theft.

primallass Spain Sun 01-Sep-13 23:24:59

not sure who you are addressing re:reading the whole thread, but I have.

The OP has said that the belts on different sizes of the dress were random, so a size 16 belt was smaller than a size 12 one. To be fair if she had done it before she bought it, having tried different sizes on at the same time, no-one would have batted an eyelid.

LeoandBoosmum Sun 01-Sep-13 23:44:23

Haven't read the whole thread but worked in RI when I was a student circa 96 and the CS was shit then...I see nothing has changed!
Had an idea though! On their site do they have a size guide? If they do (waist measurement given) then measure the belt on the loosest hole and see if it is smaller than the statistic given on their site. If it is then it's false advertising and they have to do something!
Call HO...be really polite but unhappy and firm (telling them that the cashier said others had the same issue..so it's not just you!)...see if they will be able to provide you with a larger belt.

LeoandBoosmum Sun 01-Sep-13 23:45:35

Ps...I'm wondering if another customer took the belt off yours?

nooka Sun 01-Sep-13 23:48:41

It's too late for any reasonable solution now as the OP has already stolen another belt. If she had been caught doing so she could have been prosecuted for shoplifting.

Normal people just don't buy clothes that don't fit them. It's not really very difficult.

LeoandBoosmum Mon 02-Sep-13 00:07:04

Just read the whole thread... Honestly, if the belt measured less than the waist statistic on RI's own site (no idea if it did) then the belt was not fit for purpose. I've tried dresses on without trying the belt that accompanied it because you assume the belt will be the right size for the dress.
I think RI are skimping. I worked for them years ago and I know what they're like... I'm not saying taking another belt was the right thing to do -and I'm not sure I would have taken that route - but, honestly, some posters here are acting as if they purposely ran over a child or something.
Okay, the OP's solution may have been legally and morally questionable but so was RI's! I don't buy all this 20% off rubbish! The OP had the right to a belt that was the same circumference as the stats on the site...and it sounds like she didn't, going on what others who also have the belt have said...unless all the others are 'thick-waisted' (give me a break!) Time to get a bit of perspective here and to stop being so damned judgemental... So many people in ivory towers on this thread!

nooka Mon 02-Sep-13 00:40:41

If the dress was faulty then the OP should have taken it back for a refund. If too small then she should have exchanged with the next size up. She wasn't obliged to keep the dress, or for the store to keep her money.

If the belt is a part of the dress but too small to do up then that should be very obvious in the changing room, and so the dress will be rejected by most shoppers. No one buying the dress will quickly alert the store to the fact here is a problem. If in fact it fits most people then the store will go on neither knowing or caring that their dress doesn't fit everyone (what does?)

LeoandBoosmum Mon 02-Sep-13 00:56:38

Nooka, I would be pretty pissed off if I bought a dress that fitted and the belt didn't...whether I tried it on without the belt in store. Surely it should be safe to assume that the belt would at least match the waist measurement of the dress? In this case it sounds like the belt was shorter than the waist measurement of the dress...which is bizarre! Others had the same problem but stores like RI will do all they can to avoid rectifying mistakes so as not to lose profits. I think it said enough that the store manager glared at the SA who was honest with the OP about others complaining about the same thing. I worked in RI years ago and even then witnessed managers doing all they could to avoid refunds even when the customer had a valid point. Though the dress was pretty and the OP is not well off I would suggest she save and shop in John Lewis (one of the concessions like Oasis or Warehouse in there) as IME their CA is second to none. I avoid stores like RI like the plague... The clothes in there are now rubbish quality so the OP will probably only get a few wears of it.
I am not saying the OP should have swapped the belt herself but I think people have been very harsh on this thread and RI should make sure their belts fit their dresses!

LeoandBoosmum Mon 02-Sep-13 00:57:30

sorry, CS, not CA

nooka Mon 02-Sep-13 01:27:26

Oh I agree that it sounds like a badly made dress/belt combo. I'd be annoyed to find something almost but not quite right, but it's not exactly an unusual experience is it? I just don't buy it. If I don't have the time to try something in the store but think it's probably OK then when I get home I try it on. If it doesn't fit/I decide I don't really like it after all then I'd wrap it back up and return it.

No problem. In this case the OP made an unusual request, asking to exchange part of the outfit (I assume because she thought that the belt supplied had been accidentally swopped with another dress). Not surprisingly the manager said no, and when her pretty generous goodwill offer was turned down was annoyed (at this point I totally agree she was very rude). The OP could still have returned the dress and got her money back though, as the other person who contacted the head office confirmed.

LeoandBoosmum Mon 02-Sep-13 01:32:52

Clothes are dreadful these days unless you can afford more high-end stuff (my best purchases have been from Hobbs...still have things I regularly wear from seasons back). In the OP's shoes I think (as you imply) I'd have assumed not all clothes are made equal and tried it on before removing tags and wearing. The offer of a full refund despite the dress having been worn was fair and I would have taken it (then tried every identical dress on in my size until I hit on one where the belt was a match). I do feel a bit sorry for the OP though...she did come in for a bit of a character assassination. I wouldn't have done what she did but I could empathise with her frustration and what she did wasn't the worst thing in the world (though some posters acted like it was!)

SparkyTGD Mon 02-Sep-13 12:16:07

Its possible the belt was made too small, its also possible it was the correct size. I think the dress was stretchy & belt is not.

If OP had measured the belt & it was too small for their advertised size then probably would have been able to persuade the shop to do something about it.

I don't think swapping with a belt from a larger dress was fair.

Laquila Mon 02-Sep-13 14:45:02

I'm sure this has been said elsewhere on the thread but just to clarify, just because something doesn't fit one person does not mean it is not fit for purpose.

It's the customer's responsibility to t something on and ensure it fits before purchase. Any sizing given is a guideline only.

If the dress fabric has any give/stretch in it at all then it's quite conceivable that it could fit several differently-shaped people, but that the belt would not fit them all. Not all size 12 items fit all people who are usually a size 12.

Sneaking back and swapping the belt for another, when the shop have already offered you a) a discount, and b) a full refund, is really not on, regardless of the manager's attitude.

TattyDevine Mon 02-Sep-13 14:57:21

I am neither super duper moral nor a thieving criminal but I don't blame the OP for swapping the belts! Maybe I should, but I don't grin

Libertine73 Mon 02-Sep-13 15:08:29

no it's not theft, she swapped a belt for a belt, I would have been tempted to do the same, except leave the small belt of the dress so no one else got stung in the same way.

nickelbabe Mon 02-Sep-13 15:24:28

OP, it really is theft - you offered your alternative to the Manager and she said no, you can't do that.

and you did it anyway, which means you did wrong after being told not to.

And you didn't even get the tape measure out? I know you said you lost yours, but a rule would have done the same job (or even a piece of paper, then measure it against a rule)

Why the hell didn't you just email head office and ask them to send you another belt?

you didn't even get the facts of the case to make an argument

flowery Mon 02-Sep-13 15:43:36

I'm puzzled as to how being a lone parent and being "on a budget" makes any difference to the moral/legal question of whether what you've done is theft/morally wrong or not. confused

candycoatedwaterdrops Mon 02-Sep-13 17:49:17

Again, if it's not the wrong thing to do then why do it sneakily in the changing room? wink

nicename Mon 02-Sep-13 17:57:31

I would write to the manufacturer in the hope of a bigger belt.

It's a pain that the belt is a stingy length - I had this when I was a skinny minny (size 8 would hang off me) and bought a 'small belt without trying it on ' that ended up fitting my 9 year old. I had a lovely chain belt that I now wear as a necklace - I can't even get it around my waist these days!

nicename Mon 02-Sep-13 18:00:54

And its a bit naughty to switch. I saw a gorgeous suit (last one in a fab sale) that some ratbag had switched skirts on so it just wouldn't fit properly at all.

Someone told me that this is why most bikinis are sold seperate (people switching tops and bottoms).

nennypops Mon 02-Sep-13 18:32:24

I don't get why people think the shop's offer was generous: it really wasn't. The belt is not fit for purpose because it does not fit the dress. It's not good enough to say it's the OP's fault for not trying it on, or that maybe it's just wrong for her: we know that the dress itself fits her, so if the belt isn't big enough to go round the waist of the dress then it's not fit for purpose.

Therefore the shop was in breach of contract and it can't in law remedy that just by refunding the money. It has a duty to put the customer in the same position as she would have been in if they had fulfilled the contract. That means supplying her with a dress and belt that actually does fit; if they can't supply it, she would be entitled to look elsewhere for the nearest equivalent, and if it is more expensive - even if it is much more expensive - they would have to pay for it.

So really, by just swapping the belt OP has if anything done them a favour. Very technically it's theft, but I can't see the police conceivably bothering to prosecute.

nooka Mon 02-Sep-13 18:38:46

So I can go into a store, buy something that doesn't fit me and then bring it back in a hissy fit and demand something else more expensive at the same cost and the store would be obliged to cough up? Really? I must be missing out on a lot of free dosh then because this is not exactly an unusual experience. The dress was stretchy and the belt was not. It fit well enough for the OP to put it on, just not well enough to be comfortable, again not exactly unusual.

StuntGirl Mon 02-Sep-13 19:06:48

Because chances are the belt is right it just doesn't fit the OP's particular shape. Apparently it was impossible for the OP to measure the belt, so who knows.

nickelbabe Mon 02-Sep-13 19:16:11

I'm frustrated about the not measuring the belt thing

op, can you at least measure your waist (using paper and rule trick) to see if it fits in with river island's measurements?

mayorquimby Mon 02-Sep-13 19:25:08

a belt not fitting does not mean it "is not fit for purpose", a belt not closing due to a broken buckle would.

The op was already in the position had the contract been fulfilled. She had the dress and belt that she picked out in the shop and contracted to buy.
There's no issue of not being fit for purpose or entitled to any contractual remedies because there was no breach.

nickelbabe Mon 02-Sep-13 19:31:52

it is if itdoesn't match rthe sizing of the dress

candycoatedwaterdrops Mon 02-Sep-13 19:40:26

It seems like people really don't understand the legalities around fit for purpose but regardless of that, stealing is stealing.

foreverondiet Mon 02-Sep-13 21:37:54

I bought a dress which also had a too small belt. For £3 I found a similar belt elsewhere. Think it's because my waist wider than an 18 year ok'd with same weight confused

Libertine73 Mon 02-Sep-13 21:58:13

she swapped though, she didn't just remove something

FunLovinBunster Mon 02-Sep-13 22:19:51

Christ on a bike.
It is theft FFS.

LittleBearPad Mon 02-Sep-13 23:20:32

Well if she swapped then that's ok. I'll just swap my way along Bond Street. I'm sure it'll be fine hmm

LongGoneBeforeDaylight Mon 02-Sep-13 23:44:58

Theft = dishonest misappropriation with intention to permanently deprive

Misappropriation can be as insignificant as just touching something

It's theft

LongGoneBeforeDaylight Mon 02-Sep-13 23:46:08

And a civil wrong - like breach of contract or something not being fit for purpose - does not mean you can help yourself to a criminal remedy.

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