AIBU to still be cross even if DH says it was a mistake?

(64 Posts)
ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:07:01

DH and I have been overpaying off our mortgage in the hope that we can be mortgage free by the time I am 40.

Last summer I overpaid £5000 which I had saved up in the previous year, it was hard work but I though we had the common goal. Mortgage overpaying was his idea. I asked DH to call the mortgage company to tell them we didn't want to change the payment amount. He said he had. Its his mortgage so I cant do it.

Got the statement this morning and he has not done it, he has been paying less each month so my overpayment was for nothing. When I asked him why he lied he told me that he did it to stop him nagging.

We havent rowed about it, but I am pretty annoyed. He says its a mistake and therefore I cant be mad.

AIBU. I am prepared to be told I am petty and I probably am, but TBH I am annoyed.

Purple2012 Tue 27-Aug-13 15:09:06

I would be annoyed. I could accept making a mistake and forgetting but not the not telling you to stop the nagging. Luckily I am the one that does all our finances

QueenofallIsee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:09:12

He has pissed away 5000, lied about it and you think you are being petty? I would clock him. Twat

MaxPepsi Tue 27-Aug-13 15:09:47

What has happened to the £5k payment you made?

Has it not gone on the mortgage?

MimmeeBack Tue 27-Aug-13 15:10:07

So where is the extra money that has not been paid each month?

squoosh Tue 27-Aug-13 15:10:18

So he encouraged you to overpay by £5000 in the belief it would go toward reducing the mortgage and then he reduces his own payments? Very sneaky, I'd be raging.

Mistake my ass.

How is it a mistake if he has knowingly being paying less? And why is it 'his' mortgage?

Where has the extra money gone and why are you overpaying his mortgage? Are you on the deeds?

DoItTooJulia Tue 27-Aug-13 15:11:00

Get your name on that mortgage! Don't pay anymore until that's sorted.

livinginwonderland Tue 27-Aug-13 15:11:36

Why are you paying towards "his" mortgage?

squoosh Tue 27-Aug-13 15:11:55

Yup, I'd be concerned if my name wasn't on the mortgage. You're married, why is the mortgage his alone?

TylerHopkins Tue 27-Aug-13 15:12:04

I'd be raging too.

Where has the money gone then?

Are you going to ask him?

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:12:16

The mortgage company reduced his monthly payments to reflect the overpayment.

The mortgage payments come out of his current account, so the extra money will be in there. He says he 'spent it without realising'

He hasn't pissed away £5000, the mortgage payments have been reduced by about £45 a month.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:12:45

Why are you not on the mortgage??????

He has taken your £5000 - tell him you want it back.

This is not a mistake, he knows he is paying much less each month.

Pantone363 Tue 27-Aug-13 15:13:09

You saved up and paid 5k towards someone else's mortgage? He lied and said he was doing the same but actually reduced his payments?

Fuck that. Where's your money?

TylerHopkins Tue 27-Aug-13 15:13:35

Is there a reason both your names aren't on the mortage? being nosey

squoosh Tue 27-Aug-13 15:13:38

A 12 month reduction of £45 per month matches a £5000 overpayment?

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:13:45

I have my own mortgage on another property which I kept when we bought our house. Because there wasn't enough equity to remortgage when we bought our family home I wasn't put on our mortgage here.

Pantone363 Tue 27-Aug-13 15:14:05

Oh ok. So the payments reduced by £45 which he didn't notice? Why aren't you in the mortgage?

squoosh Tue 27-Aug-13 15:14:28

OP aren't all your alarm bells ringing very loudly?

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:14:32

OK - well he owes you however many months of £45.

But you have bigger problems than that. The fact that you aren't on the mortgage and that he lies to you to stop you nagging, if he lied about this what else does he lie about?

Why didn't you overpay your own mortgage?

TylerHopkins Tue 27-Aug-13 15:15:50

Agree with chipping. The lying bit would really worry me.

QueenofallIsee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:16:10

But her DH said he didn't tell her about it to 'stop her nagging'. If 5k was saved up and not used for the agreed purpose, instead reducing his outgoings then I would call that pissing it away, sorry. I would be raging with him

MaxPepsi Tue 27-Aug-13 15:16:13

Is he going to rectify it by upping the payments by £90 from now on and put you on the mortgage?

And if that is going to be a long drawn out process give his immediate authority to discuss the mortgage with you in the meantime?

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:17:07

Why didn't you pay your money off of your mortgage?

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:17:27

I do overpay my own mortgage, by a fixed amount each month.

We focused on the bigger mortgage because our rate went up.

I always thought I could trust DH with money. He works in finance sad

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:18:27

Fuck it. I have another £1500 to overpay and I am going to put it towards my own mortgage.

HappyMummyOfOne Tue 27-Aug-13 15:19:36

Im confused, you saved up £5000 from your own income to make the payment but then he lowered the monthly amount? How could he have done that bar going interest only or extending the term?

Or do you mean you saved from his salary the £5k and he decided not to put it on the mortgage?

It doesnt sound like a common goal tbh especially givem you state you want it laid off by the time you are 40.

Is there a reason its in his name only?

SarahAndFuck Tue 27-Aug-13 15:20:13

How can it be a mistake if he says he did it to stop you nagging?

That's doing it on purpose and lying to you.

sparechange Tue 27-Aug-13 15:20:19

So after you paid the lump sum, the bank adjusted the monthly payments so they were smaller?
That is outrageous, and no way a mistake. He needs to now 'overpay' to bring the balance back to where it should be.
Julia, it isn't as simple as just adding a name to an account.
The mortgage company will only add an extra name if they are on the Land Registry deeds, and if you add someone to the deeds, at the very least you have to pay a solicitor to do it, and at most, you have to pay stamp duty

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:21:39

The mortgage provider (Bank of Ireland) automatically changed the payment amount when I made the overpayment. All he needed to do was ring them and tell them that he wanted the payments to stay the same. He said he had, but he did not.

And so you should shade . Good idea.

I'd be in no rush to help him overpay a mortgage I'm not on in the future! hmm

Murtette Tue 27-Aug-13 15:22:14

Actually, now you've explained it, I can see how it happened. When we paid off a (small) chunk of our mortgage, they immediately reduced the monthly amount. They sent us a letter confirming that this is what they were going to do so I was able to call them & change it. If the DD from my account had just gone down by a small amount, I may not have noticed, may not have made the connection with the overpayment & may well have meant to call them & not got around to it. Despite that, I don't think you're BU to be cross as I would be.
I am also concerned about the names on mortgages thing. So you have responsibility for "your" mortgage on "your" house (which you will presumably own outright one day) but you both have responsibility for "his" mortgage (which he will presumably own outright one day). Which is the more valuable property? How much is the mortgage on each & what is the remaining term?

Dahlen Tue 27-Aug-13 15:23:29

Let me see if I've got this straight:
Between Summer 2011 and Summer 2012, your DH overpaid £5000 on his mortgage with money you provided.

As a result of this, the mortgage payments reduced in Summer 2012.

In Summer 2013 you discovered this and realised that a year's worth of reduced payments has meant that the £5000 you overpaid in 2011/2012 has been wiped out and you are at the same point you would have been had the mortgage payments remained the usual amount between Summer 2011 and present day.

In effect, this means that you subsidised his mortgage payments in 2012/2013 as well as paying your own.

Are the mortgages and equity values in your respective houses of equal value?

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:23:49

When we purchased this house, we signed a document with our solicitor that the house was joint property even with just DH's name on the mortgage.

HappyMummyOfOne Tue 27-Aug-13 15:25:55

So you both have your own mortgage that you each pay? Why not sell and put any profit made onto the exisiting mortgage on the house you live in?

Both properties should be in joint names if you are married, does he help pay for the other one or get the rental from it? The house you both live in is a cost to you both presumably and not his alone to pay for likewise yours?

ShadeofViolet Tue 27-Aug-13 15:26:30

Dahlen - thats exactly right, although I paid the overpayment directly to the mortgage provider with the bank account number and sort code we have always used before.

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Tue 27-Aug-13 15:27:10

Effectively he has stolen £5000 from you, if I understand the overpayment/payment reduction system properly (I don't have a mortgage). That would have me in an absolute RAGE to be honest. It's not a mistake; he deliberately withheld this information from you to cover up his poor financial management.

Squitten Tue 27-Aug-13 15:28:53

Could you calculate the total that he has underpaid over the period and then he can give that to you so you can put it on your mortgage? I know it doesn't help with interest but might make it feel less of a loss.

Your mortgage arrangements sounds very complex though!

HotCrossPun Tue 27-Aug-13 15:29:03

Cross? I'd be absolutely livid.

A lot more info needed OP. Where has the money gone?

Viviennemary Tue 27-Aug-13 15:31:32

Ask him for your £5000 back. What a cheek. And use it towards your own mortgage.

HotCrossPun Tue 27-Aug-13 15:32:55

Cross post with everybody!

If I were you I certainly wouldn't do it again. Put any money you get onto your own property.
It may have slipped his mind to ring the mortgage company...or he may have been a sneaky shit. Either way keeping it from you for so long is definitely not on.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:35:00

Shade - that can't be right.

If his mortgage payments have only reduced by £45 per month for about a year, his mortage will still be a lot lower than if you hadn't paid the lump sum.

You need to work out what it would have been if he had made the change when he should have (online calculator will work it out for you) and tell him he has to make that up now and keep it at the rate he was paying before - as a bare minimum.

Why didn't you go on the mortgage?

From now on, I'd pay anything off of your own mortgage, even though his is the one with the higher rate of interest. It seems he's very keen for YOU to overpay HIS mortgage, but isn't doing the same himself hmm

Dahlen Tue 27-Aug-13 15:35:31

OK, so it's not like he ran away with £5000 that he's secretly spent on gambling or something. I can see how this happened without there being a sinister motive behind it.

I'd still be livid though. He can't possibly claim it was a genuine oversight because you asked him so many times he eventually lied to stop you from "nagging". That's not meaning to get round to it and forgetting. That's being lazy and compounding it by deliberately tuning out your perfectly reasonable reminders.

The fact that you are married should mean that whoever's names are on the mortgages doesn't make that much difference. They will all be marital assets even though yours was yours from before your marriage. However, in the event of a divorce (not that I'm suggesting you're heading that way) a house each could mean that a judge feels a fair split is for you to hang on to your house while your DH hangs on to the marital home - meaning you both have a home each. That's why it matters how much mortgage is left, the value and equity of each property, etc. If your mortgage is nearly cleared but you've also made significant overpayments on the marital home that your DH has used to reduce his contribution, that's not particularly fair on you.

Squitten Tue 27-Aug-13 15:35:33

x-post - just read what Dahlen said so ignore what I said!

I would stick to my own mortgage in future if I were you

HappyMummyOfOne Tue 27-Aug-13 15:37:00

He's not stolen it, its been paid direct to the mortgage provider on the house they both live in. He has lied about the reduction in payment though which is what they now need to resolve as adults.

Perhaps a review of finances is due. I know some like seperate accounts but you would have seen the cheaper mortgage payment if you had a joint bill account. You could still keep your own but transfer 50/50 each to cover both mortgages and bills and leave your spending money in your own personal accounts if you like things that way.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:42:34

The money isn't 'missing' HotCrossPun.

Shade paid it directly into the mortgage account.

When you pay a lump sum (in most instances) the bank recalculates how much you need to pay per month to pay it off over the time of the mortgage (ie the period of time they are happy to lend you money). If you want to finish your mortgage earlier than that, you need to tell your mortgage provider that you want to keep your monthly payments the same (effectively over paying each month & thus paying it off early).

He didn't do this, so for the next however many years, he would be paying £45 less per month, if this continued the mortgage would not be paid off early and he would have effectively used Shades money to fund his daily living instead of reducing the period of the mortgage.

Why he thought he could 'get away' with this or why he would want to is beyond me though.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 27-Aug-13 15:47:12

He was pushing to pay the mortgage off early, so he would have been well aware of the fact that him doing what he was doing, was actually, really, stealing from shade. I would find that very difficult to get past.

As Dahlen said, whilst the properties would be seen as 'joint' if they divorced, when there are two houses like this often 'one for him/one for her' is applied and when there is only one name on each mortgage they might each be left responsible for 'their own mortgage' & so shade should look after her own position rather than his.

Cravey Tue 27-Aug-13 15:49:17

So you have paid 5k on a house which isn't yours. Are you mad ? He's scamming you and you need to wake up,

HotCrossPun Tue 27-Aug-13 15:50:11

Thanks Chipping like I said - cross post.

Awomansworth Tue 27-Aug-13 15:54:32

The fat that he knows his payments reduced once you paid the lump sum tells you he knew exactly what he was doing.

His commitment to "the plan" of paying off the mortgage doesn't appear to match yours. Therefor in your position I would concentrate any spare cash I had on paying off my own mortgage rather than his.

BashfulBunny Tue 27-Aug-13 15:54:50

HappyMummy is right; a sensible thing would be to set up a joint account for bill and pay 50/50 into it. Then you could see what was going on. Transparency is important for a healthy relationship. Especially where money is concerned.

Why on earth didnt you pay it off your own mortgage???? Equity is equity whether its on yours or his.

3 years ago my mother generously wanted to pay £1k off my mortgage. When she tried to do it she was not allowed as it was not her mortgage. She gave me a cheque for me to do the ovetpayment myself and when I did so I wad askex whether I wantrd to reduce the term or the payments. The didnt automatically reduce the payments.
anyway so far your h has had 45 per mth extra in his account for a yesr. Thats £610. So now tell him to get you on the mortgage and put the amount back up. You can do this by phone and hand the phone to him at the appropriate time.
Or just ask him for the money back and pay it off your own.
But it was family money you saved up so it was his own money that made the payment.....

holidaysarenice Tue 27-Aug-13 16:32:52

He saves the 5000 he has stolen, returns it to you and you pay off your mortgage. A written agreement needs to be drawn up that he has borrowed 5000 and needs to pay it back.

He loses all independent financial control until he can be trusted not to steal.

And you go on that mortgage.

HappyMummyOfOne Tue 27-Aug-13 16:53:52

Holidays, why would he need to return it? OP is a joint owner of the house just not on the mortgage so presumably pays for the home she lives in anyway. She hasnt commented whether the £5k came from her own salary or joint family money anyway so its unknown.

Its a curious thing MN at times, mens money is considered "family money" but not the womens, the woman should be a joint owner always yet nobody has mentioned the other property being put into joint names to ensure equality and women are encouraged to have a secret "rainy day" fund whereas the man should not hide anything and share it all.

They both need to ensure that things are fair and their financial plan matches or compromise reached. Both need to want to forgo extras and overpay as both should be onboard of bills are shared equally. If one person is paying, then they get the majority say in what happens to their earnings.

LessMissAbs Tue 27-Aug-13 17:04:46

So he's effectively conned you of £5000, or part of it at least, and kept up the deception for a year? OMG!

riskit4abiskit Tue 27-Aug-13 17:39:54

I think I would be more forgiving if you hadnt said he works in finance!

fabergeegg Tue 27-Aug-13 18:47:41

People like this are awful. If it's what I think, he will genuinely think it's a mistake, but it will always mean that someone else is out of pocket. This is a pathological personality trait. I know it sounds histrionic but I would even wonder if it's worth arguing with him over, if he hasn't enough sense of decency to (a) not mess up like this in the first place and (b) put it right now. Is he usually skint? Does he know where his money goes? Does he like a standard of living that he isn't quite affording? Do you often find yourself lending/paying for stuff you wouldn't have chosen to? And why why WHY are you not on the mortgage?

I think you sound very foolish.

PurplePidjin Tue 27-Aug-13 18:56:03

45x12=540

Not £5000 (or € if it's Ireland?)

I would be expecting an apology, replacement of the money and a very good explanation of why he thinks so little of you angry

StuntGirl Tue 27-Aug-13 18:56:12

I'm not sure why you're not more mad about this.

valiumredhead Tue 27-Aug-13 19:16:19

I'm glad you're married, makes no difference if your name isn't on the mortgage as you can still claim on it 'if circumstances change' so to speak. You definitely shouldn't be contributing to his house of you're not married.

Nagging? Is he normally so rude?

mysteryfairy Tue 27-Aug-13 19:24:11

The overpayment has been used to reduce the payments for the rest if the term. This is why at this point, presumably well before the end of the term, the DH has not saved £5k off his repayments yet.

The OP is apparently the joint legal and beneficial owner if the house but has no liability for the loan secured on it. Why under those circumstances would it be a benefit for her to be put on the mortgage? The only benefit as far as I can see would be she could then instruct the lender over things like whether to reduce the monthly payment, which is what lender has assumed was required, or the term, which OP apparently intended. There may well be a reason the lender won't have her on the mortgage - exposure on her other mortgage, employment status etc - anyway.

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