To think I am NOT being racist if I say I am not attracted to a Pakistani person?

(430 Posts)
funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:29:05

I am newly-ish single after a long marriage to a man from the Middle East.
I had a conversation with a few friends today, over coffee we got talking about types of men that we are attracted to. I said Mediterranean, Middle Eastern. Then I said I am not usually attracted to Asian men, and my friend said that was being racist.

I am shocked tbh. Am I? I've got loads of Asian friends, and colleagues. Just because I don't fancy them doesn't mean I would ever be rude or treat them differently.

Opinions please!

zatyaballerina Tue 20-Aug-13 20:32:20

You can't help who you're attracted to, we all have our preferred types in looks, humour, culture, attitude, interests, health etc....

StuntGirl Tue 20-Aug-13 20:32:27

I think labelling an entire race unattractive is..well, weird if not racist.

CoffeeBucks Tue 20-Aug-13 20:32:34

It does seem a little odd to write off all Asian men EVER based on race, yes. It would be racist if you didn't fancy them because they were Asian.

Also your title says Pakistani, which is not synonymous with Asian. Asia is a huge continent.

parakeet Tue 20-Aug-13 20:32:42

You can't help who you fancy - or don't fancy, in this case.

soontobeburns Tue 20-Aug-13 20:34:14

I have never felt attractive to anyone who is no Caucasian. It doesnt make me racist its just my taste.

I get it, Im not attracted to black men.
Then again, Im also not attracted to women, so I must be sexist, over weight men, so I must be sizeist, or short men, so I must be heightist.

<shrugs>

WorraLiberty Tue 20-Aug-13 20:34:26

You've posted two different scenarios here.

If you said you are not 'attracted to a Pakistani person', then that would be a fact...based on that particular person (their country of origin doesn't make any difference).

If you said you're not attracted to people because they're Pakistani or you will never be attracted to Pakistanis...then that is based on race and therefore racist.

Saying you are 'not usually attracted to Asian men' is a fact...and the word 'usually' would infer that it has nothing to do with he fact they're Asian.

Sleepathon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:34:29

What about this guy?

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/siddharth-mallya

soontobeburns Tue 20-Aug-13 20:34:33

Attracted*

Sleepathon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:35:31

Aargh try this:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/siddharth-mallya&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=4cQTUuDvDseo0QWp2oGoBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAA&biw=320&bih=504#biv=i%7C2%3Bd%7CbfhOb5kS3rNlNM%3A

Jinsei Tue 20-Aug-13 20:36:27

Lots of Asian men could easily be mistaken for middle eastern or Mediterranean, so don't really get the distinction if I'm honest, but nobody else can say who you should be attracted to!

Sleepathon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:36:32

Pah I give up

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:37:49

Yes, realised my error there. I mean Pakistani and Indian men.

waddlecakes Tue 20-Aug-13 20:38:56

It's not racist. It's no more wrong than a woman saying she doesn't like blondes, or shorter men, or slim men, or men with very pale skin, etc etc etc.

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:39:11

And yes, not usually attracted to

Feminine Tue 20-Aug-13 20:39:38

You can't write off a whole group of people!

You just never know who might be waiting round that corner ;-)

So, not racist...just a bit short sighted IMO. smile

LittleNoona Tue 20-Aug-13 20:41:29

I don't think you're being racist!

You didn't say "all Pakistani men are ugly" just that they aren't your cup of tea, which is perfectly fine!

I don't find Somalian men attractive. Nothing against Somalian people at all. However, I prefer chunky men so that probably explains it grin

I do find black men attractive though, and some Asian men. And weirdly I find Aboriginal men attractive too.....

BuskersCat Tue 20-Aug-13 20:41:56

I have never been attracted to anyone who hasn't been white, therefore I will say that I am only attracted to white men. If someone or a different race were to come along then I would happily change my mind but so far noone has rocked my boat.

If you are not attracted to women, are you sexist?

EldritchCleavage Tue 20-Aug-13 20:42:03

It might be, but it isn't necessarily. Sometimes people aren't attracted to people of a specific race because they've internalised (not necessarily consciously) negative ideas and stereotypes about that race. So the lack of attraction comes from racist thinking, if you see what I mean. Or just the fact that the race in question has a lower status in the society, something like that.

On the other hand, it is entirely possible just to make a general aesthetic judgment, e.g., if big beefy men like rugby players or The Rock are what float your boat, then (often) short, slender Tamil men will not usually be your thing, though there could always be the exception lurking somewhere.

Also, some people have more of a defined physical 'type' they are attracted to than others. If you haven't got a type, I can see you might read a lot into a statement like yours more readily.

I don't think your friends should just have jumped on you about it, unless you are in the habit of making dodgy statements about Asians anyway. We're not obliged to be blind to physical racial characteristics (and I say that as a bi-racial woman).

WilsonFrickett Tue 20-Aug-13 20:44:58

We all have a 'type', don't we? That doesn't make a person racist. What would be racist and a bit daft is writing off someone you are attracted to because of their race. It's like me and DH, fair enough we're both Scots but he is so. not. my. type. Yet we're blissfully happy. If I'd said, oh no, I'm not attracted to men like you then I would have missed out, big time.

So I'd keep your options open.

Preferthedogtothekids Tue 20-Aug-13 20:48:31

I decided to have a fling with an asian man when I was a 22yr old student, just to see what it was like.

20 years later, 2 kids, a dog and a mortgage. Still flinging.

forehead Tue 20-Aug-13 20:50:26

I always find it strange when people say that they are not attracted to a particular race .
My white colleague told me that he was ONLY attracted to black or mixed race woman. How strange.

solarbright Tue 20-Aug-13 20:51:15

I'm not attracted to that Asian man over there: not racist.

I'm not attracted to Asian men in general: racist.

'Asian' isn't a type of man, any more than 'black' or 'white' is a type of man. It's just their race (or their nationality, if Indian/Pakistani). An Asian man might be gorgeous or horrendous ugly, kind and generous, or stingy and foul, a brilliant lover or a dud. You've made a sweeping generalisation based on ... race.

Then again you did say 'usually' and that rather leaves open the possibility of finding some future Asian guy is exactly your type. So I can see why they thought it was racist, but it's not necessarily a racist comment.

HairyGrotter Tue 20-Aug-13 20:52:14

I wouldn't say it was racist at all...it's about what attracts a person to another?!

I find men with longish hair and beards very attractive despite DP being short haired and only a bit beardy. Keep your options open and don't write anyone off due to aesthetics

McNewPants2013 Tue 20-Aug-13 20:53:17

You cant help who you do fall in love with.

To me i am attracted to a man personality and looks only factor a small amount

CoteDAzur Tue 20-Aug-13 20:53:39

YANBU. It can't be racist to not be attracted to a group of people.

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 20:55:21

Personal attraction can't be racist. Men who say they prefer blondes are not being racist, although nearly all blondes originate from Europe. Women who say they prefer dark haired men are not being racist against Scandinavians. Its just personal preference, and most people are attracted to those who look reasonably similar to themselves, or the people they meet most often. Its a human trait.

Personally, I rule out the whole of the world south of Germany, as I prefer blond or light haired men with blue or green eyes.

Theres another issue here. I was called racist yesterday because I told a Turkish guy on Facebook (worked at the hotel I stayed at with DH) I didn't want him to contact me any more and that he was annoying me. He told me that all European women were stuck up and thought themselves better than Turks.

I blocked him :-)

marriedinwhiteisback Tue 20-Aug-13 20:55:36

Well - Ikve always gone for rather manly blondes. Preferably with a sharp intellect and definitely no tattoos or piercings. 25 years ago I didn't especially go for baldies but I wouldn't swap DH smile. I don't go for slender dark haired types at all and although I know some charming ntertaining black, brown, beige, chinese, japanese men I have never wanted to sleep with them.

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 21:01:25

Thing is, I've really messed up my OP. I have excellent conversations with my really lovely Pakistani, Indian colleagues and friends. One in particular makes me laugh a lot, and I enjoy his company, but I just don't want to sleep with him.

60sname Tue 20-Aug-13 21:02:10

YANBU chemistry is not a logical thing.

I have never been attracted to someone who isn't white. That isn't to say that I don't think there are lots of sexy men of all races, but that (as far as I can recall) I personally have never felt the 'ping' for anyone other than white men. It's just the way I'm wired.

sure?
he's nice
phwoar
<single, horny and missing the point of the thread>

I don't fancy blondes or redheads with pale skin, I think because all my brothers fit those descriptions. I like dark and handsome myself.

AidanTheRevengeNinja Tue 20-Aug-13 21:13:16

"It's funny, I've never been attracted to an x person / don't tend to be attracted to x people" - not racist. (You're just stating a fact).

"I would never fancy/ go out with an x person" - racist. (You are pre-judging an entire race).

Your OP sounds more the former, so a tentative YANBU from me grin

BarbarianMum Tue 20-Aug-13 21:13:32

I used to think I wasn't attracted to black men (African, Afro Carribean etc). Then I moved to a more ethnically diverse area (where I grew up was predominantly white/asian area) and met far more men of this ethnicity and lo and behold met quite a few I fancied the pants off found attractive.

Maybe your sample size isn't large enough?

polkadotsrock Tue 20-Aug-13 21:17:54

I'm another with a limited sample size but have never been attracted to a non-white man. It's never even struck me that I could be considerd racist. What floats yer boat is what floats yer boat.

Sorry Ehric, none of those float my boat AT ALL!
bleugh

Fairyliz Tue 20-Aug-13 21:22:22

Ehric
I'm going to have to delete my browsing history now before DH sees it! lol

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 21:24:23

I think labelling an entire race unattractive is..well, weird if not racist.

Grossly misquoting there; the actual statement was:

"Then I said I am not usually attracted to Asian men"

Moche Tue 20-Aug-13 21:29:05

Not racist, just ignorant - I worked in N Pakistan where you find men with blue / green eyes and light hair & white skin (some even reminded me of Polish men!). However, when one is not informed, one makes generalisations. Thus, since I know little about China, I might generalise and say I 'don't like Chinese men (since they all look alike)'.

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 21:29:16

If you said you're not attracted to people because they're Pakistani or you will never be attracted to Pakistanis...then that is based on race and therefore racist.

Yes, because anything that's based on race is automatically racist. hmm

I think BuskersCat said it best: "If you are not attracted to women, are you sexist?"

MrsDeVere Tue 20-Aug-13 21:29:22

Its a bit daft to write off a whole continent.

It can sound a bit like you think all Asian men look the same IYSWIM.

I couldn't say 'I am not attracted to [insert ethnicity]' because I have not met every man from that background.

Its not the same as saying 'I don't fancy women' and being called sexist. That is about your sexuality not your preference for skin tone, nose shape, hair type or accent etc.

I accept that you are not a racist. I wouldn't automatically think you were. But it is a statement that could be made by a racist.

Jewelledkaleidoscope Tue 20-Aug-13 21:32:06

I generally don't find Chinese or Japanese men attractive. I think this is because I only really like tall men, and they tend not to be tall.

Some Pakistani & Indian men are extremely attractive.

My partner is black, and obviously I'm very attracted to him. But equally there are lots of black men who I don't find attractive. It really is all about the individual.

Basically, if he's tall and handsome with noticeably broad shoulders, I'll like him grin

littlemog Tue 20-Aug-13 21:32:40

You sound a bit ignorant to me tbh. I would be very surprised if anyone I knew came out with something so crass.

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 21:36:06

Its not the same as saying 'I don't fancy women' and being called sexist. That is about your sexuality not your preference for skin tone, nose shape, hair type or accent etc.

No, but that's the danger when you take a statement at literal face value without getting the point, being that physical attraction is outside our conscious, rational decision making.

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 21:37:11

Question: if I said, "I'm only attracted to Asians," would I be racist?

Altinkum Tue 20-Aug-13 21:38:09

I'm not attracted to any black men, be that mixed race or use tango products.

I like my men blue eyed, muscular, and lean, and well... like my dh, however Alex McLaughlin is my 100% eye candy, hes my swoons...

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Tue 20-Aug-13 21:38:21

I don't think it is racist at all. I have never once been even remotely attracted to a ginger man, it just does not do it for me at all. We all have different wank bank preferences.

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 21:38:50

littlemog

What a rude post. Why do you think I'm ignorant?

ageofgrandillusion Tue 20-Aug-13 21:39:41

YANBU. We all have our types. Calling you a racist is really rather silly.

Altinkum Tue 20-Aug-13 21:41:47
ageofgrandillusion Tue 20-Aug-13 21:41:58

Threads like this always bring out the littlemog types. Tis very boring.

somersethouse Tue 20-Aug-13 21:47:14

I don't think it is racist. It is your preference that is all. It could change though! I used to HATE the thought of a hairy chest - now I love them.

I have a friend, two actually, they only fancy black men. They find white men wimpy. One has the most beautiful mixed race child and is trying for another and black men have always fancied her, always.

I like scruffy men, don't mind at all overweight men. Some people would hate that. I also don't mind bald men, I have a friend who hates bald - she put it on her dating profile and the abuse she got! She just does not fancy them but would love them as a friend.

The people saying about men preferring blondes, brunettes etc - all true... we all have our types, probably all part of genetic make-up.

carlywurly Tue 20-Aug-13 21:48:02

See, I wouldn't say it. Even if I thought it. Which I do, incidentally. I I would probably spin it to focus on what I did find attractive, rather than stating what I didn't.

But - I do tend to err on the side of pc caution much of the time tbh.

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 21:49:41

Moche Not racist, just ignorant - I worked in N Pakistan where you find men with blue / green eyes and light hair & white skin (some even reminded me of Polish men!)

I don't, on the whole, fancy Polish men. Or not at least all the ones I've met recently. Theres a predisposition to a certain facial type that I don't find attractive. And if you think that phenotype is unrelated to genotype, then you don't know your biology!

I think the likliehood of me meeting a blue eyed fair skinned Northern Pakistani man is relatively rare and then being attracted to them above all the other blue eyed fair skinned Northern European men that I meet is almost nil. At any rate, any Pakistani with that phenotype is likely to be a descendant of Alexander the Great or his army, or to have some European ancestry because it isn't a spontaneous mutation or throwback - Asians are thought to have moved directly from early Homo Sapiens in the Great Rift Valley, and then proto-Europeans then emigrated from Asia to what is now Europe, both hundreds of thousands of years ago. Northern Europeans then adapted to conditions which would have included attractiveness for reproduction, so it would appear to be not unusual for Northern Europeans to be attracted to fair skinned fellow Northern Europeans, otherwise blond/e hair colour would not have evolved so successfully.

somersethouse Tue 20-Aug-13 21:49:53

Ehric - hilarious! You are so funny. Nobody could argue with you with that selection of gorgeousness! grin

somersethouse Tue 20-Aug-13 21:53:15

Also deleting browsing history. smile

comingalongnicely Tue 20-Aug-13 21:53:53

To save aggro in the future you could just say "I've never seen an Asian man that attracts me" the handbag clutchers won't have anything to moan about then....

Latara Tue 20-Aug-13 22:00:26

Pakistani men all look different and vary in skin colour, eye and hair colour though? For example Balochs, Punjabis and Pashtuns are all different.

Latara Tue 20-Aug-13 22:01:27

Personally I don't rule out any men unless they are nasty bastards or total freaky weirdos.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 22:02:22

I have only ever fancied very pale skinned men. So no one black, asian, middle eastern, south european etc. I can appreciate they aren't ugly and that others fancy them but i just don't. None of those that Ehric posted do anything for me, in fact i find some of them girly or creepy looking (not because of their race btw). So i think i can safely predict i will not find anyone who isn't blue tinged, like me, attractive. I like to think of myself as more of a narcissist than a racist.

Sanctimummy Tue 20-Aug-13 22:06:30

You aren't racist at all because you don't usually fancy white/pakistani/asian/black men. Or whatever.

It's just like me saying 'I don't usually go for ginger guys'

It's about your type, what you are attracted to. Nothing to do with being bloody racist. I wouldn't ever date a chinese guy, because I don't find myself attracted to them. That's my sexual preference, it's my taste. I am not racist.

pigletmania Tue 20-Aug-13 22:11:07

It's up to you who you are attracted to, yanbu that's your tastes and you're entitled to them!

itsonlysubterfuge Tue 20-Aug-13 22:11:13

why isn't Pakistan part of the middle east?

OhDearNigel Tue 20-Aug-13 22:12:19

I like tall, strapping redheaded men. Ergo i've never found any asian men attractive. That doesnt make me racist, it just means that there are few redheaded asian men in circulation

OhDearNigel Tue 20-Aug-13 22:16:02

Otoh if i were gay then bring on the Indian women. Gorgeous !

DavidHarewoodsFloozy Tue 20-Aug-13 22:16:38

No preference me, not fussy. Always wanted to just shag the World ( ethnically speaking).

I gave it a good bash, debagged a man on every continent <proud>.grin

DavidHarewoodsFloozy Tue 20-Aug-13 22:19:03

That,s a lie, not Antartica.<dials B.A books ticket>.

EmmaGellerGreen Tue 20-Aug-13 22:24:11

I have Asian friend who has always said that she finds Asian men unattractive. Not sure how that could make her racist?

I don't think its racist at all. Especially as its a not usually. I'm not usually attracted to black men, but then a few have certainly turned my head. An old colleague, on the other hand, is usually attracted to black men not white men. We're both white. I don't think either are racist at all, its just what we tend to like.

It would be racist if you said you would never date someone purely because they we're both x race. People get turned on and attracted to whatever and whoever they do.

StuntGirl Tue 20-Aug-13 22:28:21

I think labelling an entire race unattractive is..well, weird if not racist.

Grossly misquoting there; the actual statement was:

"Then I said I am not usually attracted to Asian men"

Yep, and her title was "AIBU to think I'm not being racist if I say I am not attracted to Pakistani person".

If you're not attracted to this person because they're Pakistani = racist. Finding an entire race unattractive is racist.

If you're not attracted to this person because they're not your type/their personality is shitty/whatever = not racist. In which case bringing their race into it is irrelevant. So bringing it up seems kinda weird...or racist.

musicismylife Tue 20-Aug-13 22:36:40

My friend is white and has only ever dated black men. Does that make her `racist? hmm

Or, let me guess, she must have some kind of fetish, as her mum so kindly told her.

I do not fancy Chinese or Pakistani or Indian men. Fact

I like very black men ( think the Ugandan guy who won marathon this weekend)
I like very white men with red hair\freckles (think borris Becker). It is what floats my boat and whoever thought to equate what we find attractive or don't find attractive as some how racist, seems, well just silly.

LynetteScavo Tue 20-Aug-13 22:36:48

I'm trying not to out myself here...

One of my parents is of a certain race. I don't fancy anyone from one of that race. By anyone, I mean at the grand old age of 40, I've never met or seen anyone from that race I fancy.

According to some posters on this thread that makes me racist.

Go figure.

There is another race I also don't find sexually attractive.

And yet another where I often find myself thinking "phwar".

I also don't fancy women. Ever.

I must be sexist.

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 22:37:40

DavidHarewoodsFloozy

That,s a lie, not Antartica.<dials B.A books ticket>.

At least the males are always well dressed in Antartica {sic}.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 22:38:14

So is saying 'i don't fancy black guys' racist then?

softlysoftly Tue 20-Aug-13 22:39:41

What do you call a good looking Asian Man?

Asif

[Grin]

<<am allowed coz married to one innit>>

musicismylife Tue 20-Aug-13 22:39:53

Mrskoala, of course it isn't :-)

musicismylife Tue 20-Aug-13 22:40:37

Softlysoftly, grin

MrsDeVere Tue 20-Aug-13 22:43:35

It can be.
It depends why you are saying it.

If you are not attracted to physical features of the black men you have met then its not racist, its just a fact.

If you don't fancy black men because you think they are dirty and lazy and riddled with STDs then it would be racist (actual reasons I have heard).

That goes for any race though. A black woman saying it about white men would be equally offensive.

Its fine to have a 'type'. Everyone pretty much does.

But there are people who refuse to date people from ethnic groups for very dodgy reasons.

So, like I said, it can be racist to say 'I don't fancy Asian men.
Equally it can be non racist.

But I still stand by it being a bit weird. How can you write off millions of people like that?

As far as I know, you never can tell.

LynetteScavo Tue 20-Aug-13 22:43:49

If you don't fancy black people you don't fancy black people.

Of course you are not racist! It's just personal preference.

If you don't want to hang out with someone just because they are black, that would be racist.

I think I am attracted to people who would produce the best babies. As were my parents.

Not wanting to shag someone, or anyone, if not racist.

I find long hair on men really unattractive. I wouldn't not give someone with long hair a job, or not want them to marry my DD because they have long hair. As long as I don't have to shag them......

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 22:44:29

If you're not attracted to this person because they're Pakistani = racist.

I'm sorry, but that's a crock of shit. You cast aspersions upon a person's moral fibre because of who they are or are not attracted to? Incredulous.

A poster above stated they are attracted to tall men - would you say they are prejudiced against people afflicted by dwarfism?

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 22:44:30

Where i live Asian means Oriental. Am i allowed to say that? Over here i think the word Oriental is considered racist. I always thought of myself as quite right on - and now i realise i'm offensive. confused

lynette you hairist you angry wink

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 22:45:15

StuntGirl If you're not attracted to this person because they're Pakistani = racist. Finding an entire race unattractive is racist.If you're not attracted to this person because they're not your type/their personality is shitty/whatever = not racist. In which case bringing their race into it is irrelevant. So bringing it up seems kinda weird...or racist

Ah well then you are moving away from phenotype to discernable cultural traits. But the cue is cultural traits. If those traits are cultural, and not specifically related to race, then how can they be racist.

For example, if one country has a much higher rate of domestic violence than average, and a person had a notion in their mind that people from that country were predisposed to domestic violence because they had come across examples, you would be arguing that domestic violence is a racial trait.

I suspect most cultural factors would be based on personal experience or close second hand experience. To give an example, if one race is deemed to be treat women poorly and that is backed up by evidence from the legal system, social structure, etc, how is that tied to race as opposed to culture? Its not an inherited trait via DNA...

Sexual preference is not covered by any racial discrimination legislation, and for good reason. It is not considered racist to have a personal preference for a sexual partner. Individualism is permitted.

LynetteScavo Tue 20-Aug-13 22:46:02

MrsDeVere, I have written off most of the planet with my personal preferences. grin

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 22:46:04

or not want them to marry my DD because they have long hair. As long as I don't have to shag them......

Not a pre-requisite for a mother-in-law, I believe.

LynetteScavo Tue 20-Aug-13 22:46:55

Mind you I don't mind baldies....

musicismylife Tue 20-Aug-13 22:47:40

Lynette, me too!!

acer12 Tue 20-Aug-13 22:48:16

I'm not attracted to any one that is'nt Caucasian.
I'm not a racist.
I also can't stand men that smoke. It's all just tastes.

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 22:48:17

Ok, so I've worded it wrong. Thanks for all opinions except littlemogs "opinion"

layla1976 Tue 20-Aug-13 22:49:05

NOT AT ALL!!!! ... we all have a type , i'm short and very pale , with blonde hair but i love tall men, skinny men and blue eyes is my favourite, i dont find anyone attractive that is not "my type" ... either , black, white or purple with pink spots... i couldn't go out with someone who doesn't fit what i fancy..... thats not racist just picky...i'm sure many people find me ugly and some maybe find me attractive ...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and theres types for everyone.... give me alexander skarsgard (i've prob spelt that wrong)...any day i'll have him.... its a good thing we all have different tastes or a lot of us would be single forever!....i've got a friend who only dates black men....they really float her boat so when we used to go out we never fancied the same guy so it was great!!!!! ...neither of us had competition.....grin

layla1976 Tue 20-Aug-13 22:51:51

at the end of the day though ...the most important thing is a DECENT, GENTLEMAN who knows how to treat a lady thats most important as many guys these days dont !! ( not the ones i've met any how)

loopydoo Tue 20-Aug-13 22:56:05
LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 22:58:05

layla1976 at the end of the day though ...the most important thing is a DECENT, GENTLEMAN who knows how to treat a lady thats most important as many guys these days dont !! ( not the ones i've met any how)

Not really. A lot of people, myself included, look for someone physically attractive.

DH is tall, fair, lean and quite good looking. I'm short, blonde, muscly and ok. Interestingly, despite this, its pretty obvious we are different racial types.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 22:58:21

I didn't realise quite how much of a type i had till people couldn't tell the difference between exH and DH. People were liking all the wrong wedding pictures on facebook and whispering 'i thought she got divorced to him' and 'why has she brought her ex to the party' etc.

To me they look completely different - DH has hair and eyes probably a half tone darker and is about an inch taller - see, totally different.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 22:59:36

loopy - blllluuuuuueeeeeerrch. Sorry. The hair is grim.

LynetteScavo Tue 20-Aug-13 23:01:28

loopydoo he is seriously unattractive!

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 23:04:04

Sorry loopydoo my preference is for more classically handsome features. His nose is too big and close to his top lip, which is thin, and I really am not attracted to black curly hair or dark eyes. I'm sure he's a nice person, and interesting though.

Morten Hacket from Aha would be more my type.

Sleepathon Tue 20-Aug-13 23:06:11

I forgot to add I'm small, indian and DH is tall, white, blonde and gorgeous... I have always been more attracted to those that look completely opposite to me, that doesn't make me racists against my own race does it?!

loopydoo Tue 20-Aug-13 23:06:30

I the English patient with his hair loose and in Lost with his kind heart, he is lovely. It's not all about looks smile

LimitedEditionLady Tue 20-Aug-13 23:07:12

I dont find that statement really that odd,i get you,ypu dont mean to be offensive so i interpret it as that.i font find black men attractive.I just dont,i dont feel bad about it either.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 23:07:32

*If you are not attracted to physical features of the black men you have met then its not racist, its just a fact.

If you don't fancy black men because you think they are dirty and lazy and riddled with STDs then it would be racist (actual reasons I have heard).*

Yes MrsD, the first one of course. But i know enough to know i will never find some looks physically attractive. (i feel actual repulsion and nausea for men with long hair - no idea why - it just turns my stomach). And it would be weird/silly etc to write them off IF it were a conscious decision, but it isn't, it is an instinct i cannot control. (Hence the doppelganger husbands)

ArgyMargy Tue 20-Aug-13 23:07:58

YABU because for some bizarre reason you said Pakistani, not Asian, or south Asian. You identified a country. How very Daily Mail. You might as well have just said Muslim and have done with it.

pigletmania Tue 20-Aug-13 23:08:06

Errrrr loopy he looks skanky like he needs a wash. I like Clean cut guys

justanuthermanicmumsday Tue 20-Aug-13 23:09:50

it could be racist but you know the context I don't know you.

I don't think I find pakistani men attractive but I wouldn't say they're all off limits because of their background that to me is narrow minded. Millions of them to say there's none that I will find attractive is really mental. I didn't like any Bangladeshi men until my parents told me to give them a chance before writing them off, and whaddya know happily married to one, nt happily married to cultural baggage.

first choice danniel henney used to like David gondola when he was younger.

Other issue is socialising. People tend to flock with others that look like them a p d have similar social habits as them. So it's natural for Caucasians t hang out with each other, and Indians, Nigerians etc. in the natural order of things it would then explain why these people tend to prefer their own ethnic backgrounds as a potential partner, or it could backfire and be the cause for them hating their own race. Like me I very much hate a lot of them for their cultural attitudes so caveman, women too lol

But I thought people were mixing more or am I to believe that is a lie? lots of different races but living in ghettos apart?

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 23:15:25

I can also say i don't find Muslims attractive Argy, I also don't find Christian, Jewish, Jain, Hindu, Hari Krishna, Sikh, 7th day adventist, Mormon, etc attractive. I couldn't fancy anyone who believed in something so fundamentally different to me.

Same with political ideology.

So on my shortlist would be about looks first and strong beliefs second. I wouldn't consider dating anyone who didn't pass those criteria.

Friends on the other hand, the more diverse the merrier.

LynetteScavo Tue 20-Aug-13 23:15:52

Based on only myself....I like people who are different physically, but similar socially.

I wouldn't want to marry someone who didn't speak English as a first language, and I have been dumped by a bloke because I didn't speak his language (although he spoke English well). I was freaked out the other day when a neighbour, born and bread in the same town as me used a slang word I'd never heard.

Actually, he's bald, but I don;t fancy him. He looks like Max from EE.

pigletmania Tue 20-Aug-13 23:16:26

Argy Asian is usually, chineese, Japenese, not people from Pakistan. People have a right to have relationships with whomever they want, we don't live in a dictatorship!

NoComet Tue 20-Aug-13 23:17:03

I can't think any Asian men I really fancy, though my Sikh uni lab partner was lovely.

My black flat mate freely admitted she only fancied very athletic black men.

This was bad, both ber boyfriends were gorgeous.

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 23:19:19

argymargy

I am Muslim, so, er no.

justanuthermanicmumsday Tue 20-Aug-13 23:25:18

We were talking about physical looks so ethnicity or race could come into it, but heavens sake how can you judge someone's physical attractiveness on something you cannot see other than by inquiring about it I,e religion? Unless they're in obvious religious dress? Yes religion is important to me too, but I didn't realise we were discussing that here, least I wasn't.

Funky you can be muslim and be racist against certain races, since Islam is not confined to race. ppl think Arabs are the largest muslim race when it's actually Indonesians followed by south Asians.

Funky are you Arab?

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 23:28:32

I was responding to Argy saying it would be 'daily mail' and racist to say you didn't fancy Muslims. I was trying to point out i don't think that is racist either - depending on your reasoning. I know the thread is about physical appearance.

funkypigeon Tue 20-Aug-13 23:31:54

No I'm not Arab. You're right, we weren't talking about religion, but it was posted by argymargy that "I might have well as come out with Muslim" suggesting very clearly that I might be not attracted to Pakistani men because they are Muslim. And I was pointing out that since I am Muslim, that wouldn't be the case, at least in my opinion.

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 23:36:10

Argy Asian is usually, chineese, Japenese, not people from Pakistan.

Well that is categorically wrong.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 23:38:12

WM it is correct where i live, but in the UK Asian usually means Indian/Pakistani doesn't it?

WMittens Tue 20-Aug-13 23:45:44

The term Asian generally refers to anyone from (by birth or ancestry) a South Asian country. As Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc. are in Southern Asia, so the term would apply to people from these countries.

StuntGirl Tue 20-Aug-13 23:56:12

I cannot believe anyone thinks a sweeping generalisation like "I don't find Pakistani men attractive" is NOT racist. Jesus wept.

forehead Wed 21-Aug-13 00:24:01

A black friend of mine admitted to me that she did not find white men attractive . She could not understand the fuss over people like Brad Pitt,
George Clooney etc. She also said that her brothers did not find white woman attractive.

I was surprised that she told me this as i am white. One is entitled to ones own opinion, but to voice it...

While personal preferences may not be racist, many have dealt with people calling "preferences" ideas that were disgustingly racist. Many have written about the horrible feeling of being treated as a fetish object. It also goes the other way, there are so many things that make a person attractive, many not physical, and to think that no one of X group is going to fit that is more likely down to an idea of people in X group are like rather than the real people within that group. Adding on to the far lower representation of Asian men in attractive media roles (they have the lowest hiring rates across all Western media, particularly Hollywood, it's not surprising that they are one of the most likely group pinned for hear this kind of talk about. Personal preferences tend to have a lot of social reinforcement.

mombie Wed 21-Aug-13 00:38:23

I'm Asian, I don't find white men attractive. I don't get the fuss over Brad Pitt etc either. just throwing that in there...

mombie Wed 21-Aug-13 00:40:58

On the other hand DH who is very much Indian , has blue eyes. so maybe I do fancy white men. Im confused.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 00:48:09

I don't fancy Brad Pitt either. Doesn't mean all white men are off the table.

Junebugjr Wed 21-Aug-13 00:48:27

I've never found Chinese or Japanese men attractive, although i think the women are very beautiful, any other race is fair game though grin.
I don't like long hair on men or beards, the only exception being Aragon on LOTR <sigh>

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 00:53:28

Sexual attraction has nothing to do with racism.

People tend to be attracted to other people that somewhat resemble their families and people they grew up with.
It's biological and not by choice.

Whereas respecting all people regardless of what they look like, is a choice.

RogueRebel Wed 21-Aug-13 01:21:09

I can say I've only ever dated white men - would that be rasist?

I've never met a man I fancy from any othe race but there are plenty of people who are on TV that I do. They are all types, colours, ages, sizes.

will smith, Bruce Springsteen, masood from eastender, jet lee, tyrion from GOT the list could go on. I could name loads I'm not attracted too as well and they would also cover a massive spectrum. But even though I can name ppl I like I can also generalise and say I usually only fancy white men( in real life).

I've turned men down who have asked me out who are black because I just don't fancy them, I wouldn't say they were ugly or even unattractive but I don't find them attractive. I have them as friends and I love them
they're all beautiful people, unfortunately being a single parent who doesn't get out much I don't have any other friends from any other different races. That doesn't make me racist.
And I would never turn down anyone on race alone its a combination of looks, personality and chemistry between us.

Lweji - sometimes it can be be connected to racism. Some people will actively seek a partner of a particular race to fulfill an unrealistic fantasy based on racist stereotypes and some will avoid potential partners of particular races also due stereotypes. Not always, but the idea that personal preferences never have anything to do with racism ignores a lot of people's experiences of these people as well as how powerful social systems can play in personal ideals.

I also disagree that it is solely biological and lack of choice. In my own dating life, having been raised in an American city that is notoriously known for it's segregation to this day, I found social pressure and exposure gave me a very narrow "type" that I was attracted to. As I got older, I made the choice to actively look into my own concepts of personal beauty and who I found attractive and the roots of it, both in myself and in wider society. I now have far far broader tastes. We have far more choice in our personal preferences than society would like to give us credit for.

I have seen examples of men from almost every ethnicity that are hot! grin.
My preference is for the Nordic type; I swear, my uterus is a DNA compass, I can track a Finn in a crowd without even trying!

MistressDeeCee Wed 21-Aug-13 01:45:44

I'm from St Lucia and only fancy black men. I don't feel that makes me a racist. I have white friends both male & female, we've never even had that conversation. Now thinking of it, I've never seen them with non-white partners. Should I stop talking to them as that somehow makes them racist..? Should they stop talking to me simply because I don't fancy white men? Personally I feel its up to each individual who they're attracted to physically and emotionally, & its patronising to suggest they don't know for themself who/what floats their boat. Its nobody else"s business to stick their nose in and define.So no,OP I don't think you're racist.

nooka Wed 21-Aug-13 02:25:43

This thread has some weird comments on it. I find blonde men unattractive, so could with some justification say that I am not usually attracted to Scandinavian men. Because I'm not, I only fancy men who have dark hair and eyes, preferably with a beard. I'm 40 so I'd say that preference was pretty established now.

My sexual preferences impact no-one (especially as I am married and therefore it's all a bit academic) and have nothing to do with any other interaction I might have with a blonde. I am not racist toward Scandinavians/blondes, especially as I am open to the possibility that there might be one or two that float my boat (e.g I quite like Viggo Mortenson but only when he has dark hair and a beard).

MrsDV is also right though, some people's preferences are based on all sorts of stereotypes that may well be actively racist.

Mimishimi Wed 21-Aug-13 03:51:22

No, not really. I'm not physically attracted to blondes with blue/green eyes at all and I don't think I'm being racist with that. However, if I were to say that there are no attractive Nordic looking people, I think that would be a but racist and obviously very untrue. I just personally don't feel a thrill of excitement but I can objectively say that someone is handsome/beautiful and likely to attract someone else. My DH is Indian and I think he is very handsome however, like with everyone else, that doesn't mean I think all Indian men are. I've heard Indian guys (who are generally later proven to be hypocritical jerks anyway) say they think white women are all fat and very ugly ... That is racist but if they just said that they are no attracted to white women (whilst still acknowledging that there are attractive white women), I don't think it would be.

NadiaWadia Wed 21-Aug-13 03:52:20

It seems a bit racist, TBH, or at least narrow minded to write off millions of men in this way. You are limiting your choices drastically! There are very attractive men (and women) of all races.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 03:54:03

Littlesporkbigspork - Yes - i studied modules of Fetishism at university (as part of my degree course) and wrote/presented about the fetishisation of black males in homosexual pornography (particularly in the 80s). It was considered a form of racism to fetishise them as sex objects usually based on the assumption of 'animal' type charicteristics, athletic physical 'prowess', size of penis, desire for multiple partners etc made them particularly fetishised in the gay community and also a 'fear' of straight white men that they would 'take' their women. The hypothesis seemed to be if you fancy black men only because you think they have a huge cock and go like the clappers then you have reduced them to mere 'animals' to pleasure you and this is a form of racism often termed negrophilia. It is the flip side of racism as you are still making the group 'other' to you. If that makes sense.

MrsK I've met white women who do that. One insisted to me that to go out with a black man you must shave your genitals. hmm she only dated black men you see so she knew
That's racist, because it's stereotyping and fetishising at the same time (and it's also just a bit thick)

TheBleedinObvious Wed 21-Aug-13 04:47:10

Yabu

Ruling out an entire racial group is racist.

Not being racist is saying "I'm not usually attracted to---"

Or " I haven't been attracted to ---before".

TheBleedinObvious Wed 21-Aug-13 04:48:35

Or you could just say "my preference is----" without dismissing entire racial groups.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 04:55:44

Yes Ehric, i had a male friend who reckoned that 'all black girls are funny about people touching their boobs, they don't mind you going for the pants when kissing, but they WILL push your hands away from their boobs'. He had snogged one black girl in his life, which is where his amazing insight into black female sexuality was scientifically concluded. confused

Lazyjaney Wed 21-Aug-13 06:28:29

You werent racist OP, you were Politically Incorrect - far worse sin.

Firsttimemummy33 Wed 21-Aug-13 06:31:05

People from the Middle East are actually Asian, were you not attracted to your husband?

bragmatic Wed 21-Aug-13 06:33:33

I'd struggle with people from certain countries, solely due to the accent.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 06:51:13

I don't think you are racist for not generally finding men from the Indian sub continent sexually attractive. A bit blind to some possibilities, perhaps, but not racist.

However, I have never met anyone who used the word "Pakistani" as a blanket term who wasn't a racist.

I don't think this is racist, but maybe could have been worded correctly to avoid insulting the polictley correct brigade.

I don't generally fancy chinese men, just don't but i wouldn't say it out loud as it may offend. I would mention the types i DID fancy rather than those i don't.

Twattybollocks Wed 21-Aug-13 07:03:33

I'm not attracted to non Caucasian men. I don't think that makes me a racist. I consider all races, genders and sexual orientations to be equal human beings with equal rights, I am simply not sexually attracted to people not of my own race. Obviously I've not met every man in the world, so there may be some out there who would change my mind, but I've not met one so far. This is not to say that I don't look at a non Caucasian man and think "wow he's handsome" or what a great physique, but it doesn't make the hair on my neck stand on end and my knees all wobbly.
I'm not attracted to gay men either, does that make me homophobic?

itsonlysubterfuge Wed 21-Aug-13 07:13:00

Anyone from the Asian continent is Asian. I am from America and my husband is from the UK so I am use to saying Asian and meaning people from the far east, i.e. Japanese, Chinese, etc. and he is use to saying Asian, meaning someone from the Middle East, i.e. India, Iraq, etc. They are both technically Asian. Although I am secrectly more right than him. Also, Pakistan is part of the Middle East.

Also, people from Russia are actually Asian as well, weird when you think about it that way.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 07:28:32

Not being attracted to non Caucasian men- blinkered but not necessarily racist.
Using "Pakistani" to mean anything but people specifically from Pakistan-definitely racist. HTH.

I

merlincat Wed 21-Aug-13 07:47:46

OP, try watching an episode of The Big Bang Theory; you may like what you see grin

peacefuloptimist Wed 21-Aug-13 08:00:31

To be honest I do think your being racist and very ignorant as well. What is the point of this thread in the first place? Most caucasians marry/partner up with caucasians. Most black people marry/partner up with black people. Most Chinese, Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis etc. What your attracted to is what you are normally exposed to? Of course that doesn't make you racist. However to pick a specific group of people based on race to be unattracted to is an unnecessary exercise and that you have thought it out and vocalised it in my eyes makes it clear you think in racist terms.

nooka Wed 21-Aug-13 08:08:53

I wouldn't say that Pakistan is a part of the Middle East, to me the Middle East is the Arabian peninsula plus Turkey (which is also a part of Europe), Iran (which is also part of Asia) and Egypt (which is also part of Africa). Certainly those are the countries I studied during my degree which specialised in Middle Eastern politics, although that was a long time ago.

I suspect definitions of large geographical areas are quite fluid, I know that some Iranians very definitely feel they are not a part of the Middle East.

My only concern re racism is that many of the rich Arab nations pull their cheap workforces from countries like Pakistan and treat them very badly so I guess that could potentially be something for the OP to consider should she have been heavily influenced by her ex, or lived somewhere live Dubai perhaps. Doesn't sound like it though.

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 08:15:09

LSBS, actively seeking a partner is not the same as being sexually attracted to.

And I didn't say anything about lack of choice.

I can be attracted to men of different "races" (they don't exist), but generally those men have features that are somewhat similar to my own genetic background.

It's biological because you can't make yourself lust over someone you don't fancy.

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 08:21:02

loopy Naveen Andrews? No! Just no!

Look at THIS guy. Nice eyes... wink

OP, you are not racist. But please put more thought into the exact words you are saying.. Pakistani/Indian/Asian- seems to be all over the place.

Are you not interested in people from Pakistan? Or anyone from Asia? Or people who look South Asian? A lazy shorthand with words is a quick way to be misunderstood/labelled racist....

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 08:22:36

And peacefuloptimist has said it so much better....

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 08:26:31

Lazy Janey : You werent racist OP, you were Politically Incorrect - far worse sin.
Sums it up perfectly IMO! grin

LynetteScavo Wed 21-Aug-13 08:29:21

Nope he's not doing it for me. (And the photo with the tiny puppies is just weird).

I was in a shop the other day, and the shop owner admired my scarf. It had elephants on it. He said he really liked elephants, and when recently in India hoped to buy somethings with elephants on, but couldn't find anything. He concluded by saying "There are no nice things to buy in India." A sweeping statement, yes. Racist? Personally I don't think so, but obviously lots of posters will disagree.

samandi Wed 21-Aug-13 08:30:49

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

crescentmoon Wed 21-Aug-13 08:33:28

does that mean you wouldnt be attracted to Pakistani men but would be attracted to Indian/Bangladeshi/ Sri Lankan men? because you mentioned specifically nationality, but pakistanis share a similar 'look' with other people from the subcontinent.

to me it sounds the same as saying 'not attracted to irish men', or 'not attracted to french men', rather than 'not attracted to caucasian men'?

by naming nationality it brings something else to it. a social/cultural prejudice to people from that country not just a simple biological 'i dont find the look attractive'.

lottieandmia Wed 21-Aug-13 08:34:00

It's not racist to say you don't fancy one person of a certain race, but yes it is racist to say you would never fancy anyone of a certain race.

People are all so different - but to write off an entire race as undesirable to you is prejudiced - can you not see that?

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 08:34:04

Heaven forbid anyone states a preference for a sexual partner based on appearance or lifestyle,

LynetteScavo Wed 21-Aug-13 08:34:16

Oh lawd, I would never fancy a man with a mustache!

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 08:34:23

Yes, Samandi, you ARE racist...

peacefuloptimist Wed 21-Aug-13 08:39:47

Here we go. Cultural stereotypes creeping in. So this is not about physical attraction to certain physical attributes its turning in to stereotyping men of a particular background of having a certain culture which is even more offensive.

For example, if someone said I'm not attracted to British girls but I really like French girls. Then when explaining it they say British girls are really easy and dress cheap/slutty. Offended? I thought so.

Feminine Wed 21-Aug-13 08:44:47

samandi shock I can't believe you typed that!

peacefuloptimist Wed 21-Aug-13 08:45:36

MrsLouis. You are being disingenuous. What has lifestyle got to do with it? This is not like saying I don't like men who are builders or who have dirty fingernails. This is making a sweeping generalisation based on race/country. She hasn't worked it out yet.

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 08:46:03

peaceful Do stereotypes not exist?

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 08:48:53

Lifestyle has everything to do with it peaceful Most people's 'lifestyle' is based on their upbringing, culture, family traditions, career, where they live, friends, family. Is it not?

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 08:49:20

I think you could have said it better, OP, if you had suggested you hadn't yet been attracted to a South Asian man, but that was less to do with race, per se, than the people you'd met. You can't suggest a whole race is off limits because you never know who you'll click with.

I think, like it or not, writing off an entire racial group based on race sounds racist to me. And samandi, bringing cultural stereotypes or sweeping notions about South Asian men having moustaches into it is definitely racist.

Lazyjaney Wed 21-Aug-13 08:49:24

I dont find women sexually attractive - does that make me misogynist?

BTW. Some of my best friends are women grin

ivykaty44 Wed 21-Aug-13 08:50:31

what Worraliberty said

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 08:52:48

Stereotypes exist. But they are just that- stereotypes.

They have a very tenuous basis in truth. The fact that gave birth to a stereotype may have been completely turned on its head, but to still think of a culture/race/country through a particular lens is plain silly.

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 08:52:48

Lazyjaney Of the worst kind. Shocking to write off a whole sex.

peacefuloptimist Wed 21-Aug-13 09:08:12

What you have described as 'lifestyle' MrsTheroux (upbringing, culture, family traditions, career) does not include race. So again what does lifestyle have to do with what the OP is saying. A Pakistani person might have a very similar lifestyle to the OP i.e. similar upbringing, culture, family traditions etc. Also who says that just because you have a particular type of upbringing you will turn out a particular sort of way. Anyone who has siblings or more then one child will see that the same type of upbringing, family traditions, culture doesn't produce clones.

peacefuloptimist Wed 21-Aug-13 09:16:30

Stereotypes exist but that doesn't make them right. If I said all women are shopaholics or all men are aggressive most people would automatically call me out on that. In the same vein stereotypes about peoples culture whether its about British women dressing a certain way, or Pakistani men behaving a certain way should also be treated just as dismissively.

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 09:24:35

Peaceful
I said 'appearance and lifestyle' which I think covers the following:

Race - Biological categorization (hair, eyes, skin, etc.)
Ethnicity - Group of racially similar people of similar origin
Culture - Shared values, ideals, beliefs of a group of people regardless of race and ethnicity
Cultural Identity - Chosen or adopted culture
Nationality - What is the nation they identify as their national origin.

We choose our partners based on any number of the above.

Fakebook Wed 21-Aug-13 09:28:39

How do you know you wouldn't be attracted to ANY Pakistani man on earth? Have you met every single one? hmm. I do find that comment a bit ignorant.

MrsLouisTheroux Wed 21-Aug-13 09:31:30

fakebook OP said " I am not usually attracted to Asian men".

ourlittlestreet Wed 21-Aug-13 09:32:06

You can't help who you are attracted to but its strange to write off a whole nationality/ethnicity.

My friend is white and only ever been attracted to Black African men, I don't think you can say she will never be attracted to a white man because she hasn't met them all.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 09:35:25

I can see where you're coming from, as I also have certain types I am absolutely not attracted to.
Someone here mentioned Somali men, and I also do not feel attracted to the very lean type of men, regardless of height.

And I think lots of things play a role. I myself see a huge difference between an Irish, and English, a Dutch, and a German man.
To some they might look Caucasian/White and sort of similar, and they do I agree, but immediately language, accent, behaviour, mannerism etc. will distinguish these men and I know where my preferences would be.

And by the way, I cannot repeat this enough Mediterranean and Middle Eastern fols are also of the White/Caucasian race, if people are desribing this in races here.

I rather talk about humans from certain regions or countries.

I personally cannot see or do not know the difference between someone from Bangladesh, from Pakistan or from India as I had little to no contact to people from these regions, so they look, sound, behave all the same to me.

I also would say it depends how it is said. Would we be sitting there and chat about men and you would say it like you have described it, then I would totally see your point and would tell you which men I am usually attracted to and which ones I am not.

I have a very typical Mediterranean olive skin, brown eyes, dark-brwon curly hair, curvy hourglass Latin look.
And guess what, some men like this, some are crazy about it and for some men I am not even on their radar...so that happens...NEXT grin

Oh, and I am German!!!! So, for some that's already a NO-NO....NEXT wink

SarahBumBarer Wed 21-Aug-13 09:40:17

Oh don't be ridiculous, it's not ignorant. I have never been attracted to a non-white. Accordingly I can say that I am not generally attracted to non-whites. I am not usually attracted to fat ugly men either and yet and one of my most significant relatiosnhips was with an ugly fat man who I fell for when i got to know him as a person. That could also happen with a non-white (highly unlikely as I don't know any) but it does not change the fundamental position that I do not find myself intitially drawn to non-whites in a sexual way. Now Idris Elba, I can appreciate is a good looking man but I am not attracted to him. In the same (non-racist way) I can appreciate that Orlando Bloom is a good looking man but I am not attrracted to him.

It is not racist. it would be racist to say that you would never be with a non-white (Pakistani, Indian, whatever) no matter what (ie even if you were attracted to them having got to know them etc).

Montybojangles Wed 21-Aug-13 09:41:26

I wouldn't say no
But I do think it's just personal taste. I'm not keen on blokes with blonde hair generally. I don't think I could rule out every blonde though, I haven't met them all, and attraction is a funny thing.

SkinnybitchWannabe Wed 21-Aug-13 09:44:38

Your friend is an idiot.
You fancy who you fancy, who cares what other people say.
I dont fancy women, does that make me homaphobic?

Fakebook Wed 21-Aug-13 10:10:41

MrsLouis, Her title states "Pakistani". I don't understand why she's changed that to "Asian" in her opening comment, when she means Pakistani.

Asian men could mean Chinese or Nepali or Bangladeshi too. Tbh, I've seen a lot of Pakistani/Asian men/women who could be mistaken for Middle Eastern men/women.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 10:18:27

However, I have never met anyone who used the word "Pakistani" as a blanket term who wasn't a racist.

This.

Also alarmed at the amount of not very bright people on here who are mixing up sexual orientation with finding a whole race of people unattractive.

I dont fancy women, does that make me homaphobic?

Case in point.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 10:20:52

And Samandi - WTF?

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 10:27:29

LittleSporks Some people will actively seek a partner of a particular race to fulfill an unrealistic fantasy based on racist stereotypes and some will avoid potential partners of particular races also due stereotypes. Not always, but the idea that personal preferences never have anything to do with racism ignores a lot of people's experiences of these people as well as how powerful social systems can play in personal ideals

Wow, haven't seen this before. Great point.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 10:35:34

"MrsLouis, Her title states "Pakistani". I don't understand why she's changed that to "Asian" in her opening comment, when she means Pakistani."

Because she didn't specifically mean Pakistani- she meant men from the Indian subcontinent, and used Pakistani, as many racist people do, as a blanket term. Either she is not a racist, but unaccountably used the word in this racist way, or she is a racist, and realised that using the word like that outed her. Take your pick.

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 11:03:45

Peaceful Optomist Here we go. Cultural stereotypes creeping in. So this is not about physical attraction to certain physical attributes its turning in to stereotyping men of a particular background of having a certain culture which is even more offensive

That doesn't make sense. Culture is not race, they are not the same thing. Race is determined by what DNA a person inherits from their ancestors, which determines their phenotype. Culture is not inherited from DNA but is partly a matter of upbringing, social facilitation and personal choice. So if statistically it is proven that a particular country has laws which others would see as discriminating against women, and an individual's experience of that country's citizens is negative, then that is not necessarily a racial choice, as people from that race in that country may also demonstrate those behaviours. And others from that country may not.

Women have to be very careful whom they choose as sexual partners. In biological terms, we are probably programmed to pick up on all sorts of minute inferences as to suitability of sexual partners, some more than others.

To criticise women for demonstrating these traits and suggest that they are in some way ignorant because they have not toured the world experimenting to widen the males they are more socially attracted to, is extremely sexist. But in the UK, its sexism is pretty much tolerated outside the workplace, whereas any kind of racism, even deemed political incorrectness, is cracked down upon.

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 11:06:42

Describing people from Pakistan as Pakistani is not racist. Describing Asian people as Asian is not racist. Describing people from Britain as British is not racist.

Some posters on here seem rather confused as to what racism constitutes, and in their confusion have included any reference to nationality whatsoever.

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 11:08:04

lessmiss I dont see the point of your post. AFAI can see, Optimist IS talking about culture, not race and I think she has made that distinction clear.

Your post seems to be rehashing what she said.

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 11:20:46

*World Citizen And I think lots of things play a role. I myself see a huge difference between an Irish, and English, a Dutch, and a German man.
To some they might look Caucasian/White and sort of similar, and they do I agree, but immediately language, accent, behaviour, mannerism etc. will distinguish these men and I know where my preferences would be*

A lot of people think white people are all one race. They are unaware of the existence of the Saami, the Celts, and so on and of course if you mention the Nordic race that is racist because of associations with Aryan superiority.

I'm half Dutch and I see a huge difference between British and Dutch physically. Statistically this is borne out because Dutch men are the tallest in the world. And Northern Germans and Danes tend to be different again. I don't find dark haired dark eyed men attractive, but I also don't find the typical Celtic phenotype of blue eyes, dark or red hair and pale skin that attractive either. I would probably find a very good looking man from the Middle East more attractive, but the attraction would probably stop at looking (a) because I'm married and (b) part of attraction for me also insists on similarity in levels of outlook, education, shared values and wealth. (b) applies to any man, regardless of race or culture. I wouldn't shack up with a handsome blond Norwegian who had little education, no job and no motivation!

But according to mumsnet, you have to shag every man you find remotely attractive man who is nice to you, otherwise you are racist!

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 11:25:17

OFGS. What a ludicrous post.

Lweji - Yes it is - people seek a partner that think is sexually attractive and some sexual attraction, and lack there of, is about stereotypes rather than reality. Many within my Metis community have come across people who are attracted to them purely because we're seen as more in touch with out sexual side (mostly due to overly sexualized imagery in popular culture) and with nature and other stereotype bollocks that has nothing to do with an individual. Others say they might find a person pretty/handsome, but wouldn't be attracted because they think we're all dirty, alcoholics, and so on. They weren't born thinking that, it's not inate, but their ability to fancy someone is still being affected by racist ideologies perpetuated by popular media and social systems.

You said sexual attraction had no choice in it. You view it as purely biological, I disagree, I view that society around us gives us a lot of references to what is and is not attractive, view of self has a lot to do with who we will attracted to, and people are able to expand who one sees as fanciable. I myself have done this - I only dated quite light skinned men until I actively chose to seek why I did so, why society prefers that, and expand what I found attractive and desireable. We lust after people whose attributes we see as desirable - this is biological - what attributes we see as desirable can be quite social. Biological outlook makes sexuality seem very fixed whereas I see it as fluid.

And while race has no biological reality, a person has far more genetically in common with a random person of another race than a random person of one's own, race has a very strong social reality that very much exists and denying it's social impact as real because it has no biological reality not only ignores how it was invented centuries ago for the benefit of a White elite and spread by through systems and force (and ignoring it means it can not be deconstructed), but it also ignores how powerful social concepts are (money is entirely a social concept, it still exists and is important for daily life, no one tries to deny that).

LynetteScavo Wed 21-Aug-13 11:30:34

I'm alarmed when posters are so thick they don't realise some posts on this thread are tongue in cheek.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 11:31:34

However to pick a specific group of people based on race to be unattracted to is an unnecessary exercise and that you have thought it out and vocalised it in my eyes makes it clear you think in racist terms.

Yes peaceful, this sums it up perfectly for me.

Genuinely astounded at the ignorant attitudes on here.

And Samandi's post...jesus there are no words.

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 11:32:29

lessmiss are you a very bored anthropologist? grin

Amrapaali Wed 21-Aug-13 11:37:09

And I am hazarding a guess that Samandi is part of the race/nationality that she despises. Its quite alright to diss someone if you are part of the family, see? bloody stupid idea, if you ask me

(I'll make an exception for the Asif joke upthread. That was soooo cheeky!)

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 11:37:17

LittleSpork And while race has no biological reality, a person has far more genetically in common with a random person of another race than a random person of one's own, race has a very strong social reality that very much exists and denying it's social impact as real because it has no biological reality not only ignores how it was invented centuries ago for the benefit of a White elite and spread by through systems and force

Could you explain how that works with regard to inherited alleles from DNA? Without including politics?

I think I know what you are getting at, in that Africans from the "cradle of humanity" area have far more varied DNA than their migratory offshoots. However that also means that those offshoot peoples are far more closely related to each other due to more recent common ancestors than Africans. e.g. Apparently there is something called the "Finnish bottleneck" which stemmed from a loss of Y chromosome diversity 4000 years ago (2 male lines only) which manifests itself in a number of genetically inherited diseases more common in those of Finnish descent due to founder effects and genetic isolation.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 11:40:01

Stunt However to pick a specific group of people based on race to be unattracted to is an unnecessary exercise and that you have thought it out and vocalised it in my eyes makes it clear you think in racist terms

Not necessarily true, in my profession (social work and mental health counselling), we have thought a lot about these things, we had and have to on a constant basis....

We don't know about OP's private life and how self-reflecting plays a part in all this.

LadyBryan Wed 21-Aug-13 11:41:13

I don't think it is racist, just a bit odd

I have never really had a "type" - how boring grin I accept that I'm programmed to find some people attractive and some not. It matters not to me what race/culture/gender they are.

LessMissAbs - You are mixing race with ethnic groups, they are two different concepts. White people are one race because White elites invented race by skin colour as a social concept and social divider and perpetuated the concept of pure Whites as superior to the others and used science, religion, education, law, media, and other systems to enforce this ideology upon the world to excuse their treatment of others (which is where the term Caucasian comes from, to make the superiority of pure Whites sound more scientific). Who is and is not White is not only skin colour, history has shown that groups of people have become so over time by elite gatekeepers with power. It is to an individuals and groups benefit to join those in power even whilst in poverty. Race, as a social dividing system to gain and maintain power, is only 5-600 years old which is very little in the course of human history. Ethnic groups have been around for thousands of years.

Ethnic groups can include people of multiple races but have a similar culture and agreed upon attributes (this changes from group to group, age to age) where as race does not have any real connecting feature other than agreed social definitions. This is how race was invented, to include and exclude at will. This is where it gains it's social power.

The Saami are not considered racially White, even those with light skin, see their history of forced sterilization by Nordic nations and continued persecution of their lifestyle and lands. Even within the Nordic nations and the UN, the Saami are defined as indigenous with all the issues that holds. The definition of Celts changes, but the Irish have only been seen as racially White for about half a century. There are several books on how the Irish became White, it was a long initiation mostly involving the elite White groups using the Irish as enforcers for other groups (much as poor Whites came into the fold with the elites through forced guard duty of other groups). In America now, some Latin@ groups are in the process of becoming White by enforcing on other groups. It's a system. A powerful system, but a created system that can be deconstructed.

caramelwaffle Wed 21-Aug-13 12:00:32

I consider this policing of females sexuality - even when they are saying No - astounding.

It is interesting.

We live in interesting times.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:08:06

LittleSpork I am not too sure, about it being about white skin only...Folks from the Middle East are White part of the White race as well.
Look it up folks from Tunisia and Algeria for example are also White shouldn't they are Arab and not Black Africans.

Also, I usually find this concept of race being more typical of U.S. American and British vocabulary and world view. Others think in nationalities, ethnic and cultural groups.

caramelwaffle Wed 21-Aug-13 12:12:59

I think you raise something there world re: the framing of language regarding race/ethnicity etc - especially if you speak/listen to small and large groups of mixed/multi-mixed race people.

While some light skinned Arabs may be able to pass as White, and some are pushing for Arabs as a group to become racially White, it is not happening at this time as a whole. While they have more social power than Black Africans, through Arab's own colonizing history, they are still would not be considered White on a world stage.

Race was enforced by all European colonizing powers - Britain was not the only one. The Belgians were quite the most vicious about it actually, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, the Dutch all enforced the racial system and brought it to the international stage. Sweden enforced it upon the Saami and the Finns, but brought the Finns into the fold. Nationality, ethnic, and cultural groups have more importance within some regions - East Asia particularly with the colonizing histories there - but European colonial history had global affects and still maintains influence in global institutions like the IMF, the UN, world media, production and so on.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 12:19:45

I didn't say that world, I was agreeing with someone upthread who said it.

I still stand by it being true though.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:19:59

Re:framing of language...always baffles me when I hear and read about most people from the UK referring to the European continent as Europeconfused

And this is NOT about hair-splitting, How often have I wondered about this. Have asked so many friends in the UK, so if I'm European and over there in Europe, so what are you? Not in Europe, not part of the European continent?

Sometimes I joke and say, no you're from the continent called Empire and the UK (actually only England) being the capitol/headquarters grin [Disclaimer:light-hearted]

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:21:32

Stunt you might actually have a point there. My personal example might have been too specific smile

CinnabarRed Wed 21-Aug-13 12:23:56

I'm attracted to everyone, me.

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 12:25:35

LittleSpork interesting post but a bit innacurate in places. I think if you take a trip to the northernmost reaches of Europe or even the Northern Isles in Britain, you might be surprised by how much Asian heritage there is around. The Saami didn't only marry other Saami. And the Saami aren't the only Northerly people in the west who have Asian heritage.

White people are one race because White elites invented race by skin colour as a social concept and social divider

You are wrong if you think white skinned people are all one race and European. Just as wrong in fact as you would be to state that all Asian people are dark skinned.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 12:30:37

LittleSporks, can I just say it's been a positive and reassuring experience to read your posts. I have studied the legacy of colonialism at length during my doctorate and get progressively more unhappy at how casual 'Othering' slips unnoticed into discourse. IMO, to say you find a whole race unattractive (and specifying a particular racial group) IS racist. Whatever your 'type' may be. Because we should have learned now that, given everything that has happened in the past, it is wrong to continue speaking about race in this way, as a marker of difference. I might seem overly PC, but it's our duty to think about what the actual fuck we are saying, and how it might be read in all circumstances.

And not being attracted to women is not the same issue. At all. We're talking preferences built (if subconsciously) on social norms surrounding race and hierarchy. Not gender.

I've seen a couple of (not intended to be generalising, I know) descriptions of Somali men as lean and tall on this thread. You should meet my pal - born in Somalia, now lives in Glasgow, tall, yes, but chunky and broad. So there are no generalisations which always ring completely true.

Fillyjonk75 Wed 21-Aug-13 12:31:13

I'm generally attracted to people from a similar cultural background, relationship-wise. So this means more than likely they will be British. Though I find furriners attractive I've never had a relationship with one.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:31:15

LittleSpork I am sorry, they do not have to do any pushing as being White.
Look up U.S. racial/ethnic categories and also which other groups during the British Empire have been categorized as White...
Also, Biologists also categorize them as the Caucasian race...

Caucasian/White race has indeed several etnic groups and also phenotypes.

The white race is NOT in itself an ethnic group with the phenotype white/Light skin only.

And again, I do not operate myself with these race terms. But going to uni in the U.S. left me with no choice.

Fillyjonk75 Wed 21-Aug-13 12:33:19

I tend to look for a big brother figure I think. Not in the George Orwell sense.

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 12:37:34

EstelleGetty And not being attracted to women is not the same issue. At all. We're talking preferences built (if subconsciously) on social norms surrounding race and hierarchy. Not gender

I think we are far more discussing preferences built on physical attractiveness.

Suggesting that women are racist because they wish to select a potential partner on the basis of physical attraction is horrifically sexist.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:38:13

Estelle which is why I think it is okay what OP has stated and for it not being racist.
I myself only know very lean Somali men, not that I have seen so many, and if I would say to my friend while chatting about me, oh I've never found myself attracted to Somali men, cause they are usually too lean for me...why should that be an issue.

I like Scottish men a lot, doesn't mean I like whole of Scotland...and yes they are unique, and I like the twang they have in their voice, and their charme, and find them incredebliy sexy, just like that.

Can you imagine how many other women told me how unattractive they find the stocky type I like a lot. And not all are too crazy about the accent and the mannerism and attitudes either.

But maybe I'm missing something here. As maybe not liking Pakistani in the UK in particular could have a different underlying meaning. Not sure?

LynetteScavo Wed 21-Aug-13 12:40:53

I actually find it quite disturbing that some people think I should be able to find certain physical attributes sexually attractive when I don't.

sparechange Wed 21-Aug-13 12:41:08

littlemog
Erm, I lived in Pakistan for many years and have a number of friends and family members from there. They call themselves, their food and their community 'Pakistani'. I will be sure to let them know that they and I are horribly racist.

crumpet Wed 21-Aug-13 12:42:32

Boris Becker appears to be attracted to a very narrow "type". Wouldnt say his apparent lack of interest in any other ethnicity makes him racist though.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 12:45:18

Nobody is saying you should find certain anything attractive. They're disputing the illogical and ridiculous stance that out of the MILLIONS of, say, Pakistani men there is not ONE SINGLE MAN from the entire race that you would find in any way attractive.

And to declare otherwise is racist and silly.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:46:59

Hahaha Boris Becker, do you know what this poor guy had to go through from the German press and germans in general cause he is generally not regarded as being attractive.
And the women he was with were seen as very hot...

And I still remember when he was with his first wife, Barbara, the first darker type.
Awful comments, as to why he couldn't be with a typical german girl, and why it had to be her etc.
She is half U.S. American and has a German mother.

Awful. But those attitudes have thankfully changed a lot. Not completely gone though.

I am well aware of the backgrounds of the Saami, as I do a lot of work in indigenous rights, being Metis myself as I have already said. The Asian heritage among many Northern indigenous groups across continents has very little to do with what I said. I simply said that the Saami are not considered racially White, but rather indigenous. They are the indigenous population of an area and have suffered the sterilization and stealing of lands and racist attacks on their lifestyle as many other indigenous nations have done.

I didn't say "White skinned" people are all one race or European. I said elite White European people invented race by skin colour as a social concept and divider - they used skin colour a marker, not a complete divider (hence why they invented the concept of Pure White Caucasians and others who even with White skin were considered impure, obviously from people with little knowledge of geography as most people from the Caucasus mountains do not have White skin, but they wanted to create a story of a separate creation outside of Africa which were superior). It's a basic part of history if one that is well ignored. Irish people, even those with White skin, were not considered White until a few decades ago. White skinned Arabs are not considered White nor are White skinned Latin@s. In many places, White skinned Jewish people are not considered White.

White people are made up of a wide range of ethnic groups - Celts, Nords, etc. But White people as a race is an invention only a few hundreds years old to gain and maintain power. They used a range of systems to make it seem normal and natural and enforced it through law. White people does not equal those with White skin, amazingly enough the system was created to be able to control who did and did not count - White people equals a power group that while only a minority of the world's population holds the vast majority of world's resources and representation and power.

OctopusPete8 Wed 21-Aug-13 12:49:25

I don't think its racist.
you can't help your preferences.

I wouldn't make a statement that I'm not attracted to a particular race of people because, quite frankly, you never know!
Conversely, I've only dated men who are white. I wouldn't then say Im only attracted to white men, because again you never know.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 12:50:56

LittelSpork you are completely operating here with a very narrow certain U.S. American view of the world. Sorry.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 13:00:53

sparechange what are you talking about? Your post makes no sense whatsoever. Did I at any point say that using the term Pakistani was wrong? I have no ideas at a what your point is.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 13:06:08

I was repeating an excellent point up thread where it was pointed out that to use the term Pakistani to mean all Asian people (as the OP seems to have done) is racist. To me that is only a hop, skip and a jump to the term Paki. Is that not racist either?

I appreciate that I appear to be in the minority here but to me, categorising people in this way and speaking about people along the lines of racial divides is meaningless and ignorant especially if you are talking about attraction. Why say something so stupid? I am saddened by this thread.

stooshe Wed 21-Aug-13 13:08:28

OP, you are not racist. As a black woman with one white grandparent, I was never considered NOT black until this fetishisation of "mixed race" that has been happening over the last ten years in the U.K. Then the most racist thing that has happened to me, happened a few years ago. A white woman around my way ( who I know has mixed race children with a black father) touched my just washed, oiled and scraped back in a ponytail head and asked "what are you?". If i was not in so much shock, I know that I would have turned her over physically. Worser, still, this woman knows me through my darker hued cousins, knows my upbringing, knows the score. Obviously she thought that I must have been operating under some kind of duress (poor, not so dark black girl with all those darkies having to call herself "black"). I told her her fortune and told her that she needs to reel in her presumed negritude. I also warned her not to presume that I am some" tragic mulatto".
Now this is a white woman who has never been known to be with a white man. In terms of basic "multiculturalism" she would not be seen as a racist. She is. She put me in some "other" box that she felt entitled to do and she justified that assumption using her own caramel toned mixed race children ( whose to say one of them doesn't consider themselves "black"?) and her knowledge of "black culture" through the lovely black men who abandoned her and their offspring.
The best thing that you can do is assure yourself that you think before you speak (everybody is looking to catch out everybody. It's a post millennium past time, even I'm not immune to). You have no obligation to have a worldwide fanny that jumps for every race in creation. Those races will not die out without your "help". Just as you are not racist, sexing somebody of a race other than your own does not make you less racist or non racist. The most racist people that I know are black men who hold a fetish for white women because "black women are too hard. White women allow us to get away with more and are more feminine." If you ever find the pickings to be slim within the type of men that you like, avoid a man who apparently doesn't like women of his race. He won't "like" you either.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 13:09:30

Suggesting that women are racist because they wish to select a potential partner on the basis of physical attraction is horrifically sexist.

LesMissAbs, that's not my point. My point was that we can't throw around questions of racial difference like they don't matter anymore because they do. What I mean is, if you say to a South Asian person "I don't find South Asians attractive," there is a very real (and justified) chance they will find that offensive. Because, in the simplest terms, you haven't met the whole population, have you? You're lumping all South Asian men into one category which is 'other' and 'different.'

And I'm not being sexist, because I would apply the same principle to heterosexual men, bisexual, homosexual or otherly-oriented persons. It's not about your preferences, it's about how you communicate, how you engage with the rest of the world. You have to be aware of how you come across and how much baggage is attached to such a statement.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 13:09:41

Could anyone please tell me, if the Pakistani part in this, causes some people to feel uncomfortable???

I am so sure, and please correct me if I am wrong (I hope I'm wrong), if someone would chat with a friend or sits in a group and would say, well, I don't know why, but I usually am never attracted to Germans...

I cannot imagine that many people in the UK would think of this as being daft, racist, or anything along those lines.

Or am I wrong?

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 13:09:52

LittleSporg White people equals a power group that while only a minority of the world's population holds the vast majority of world's resources and representation and power

That's because the areas whites migrated to offered good conditions for farming, which in itself necessitated certain innovations.

Other parts of the world have excellent natural resources too.

LessMissAbs Wed 21-Aug-13 13:15:28

littlemog I was repeating an excellent point up thread where it was pointed out that to use the term Pakistani to mean all Asian people (as the OP seems to have done) is racist. To me that is only a hop, skip and a jump to the term Paki. Is that not racist either?

I think you are coming from the viewpoint that describing someone as Pakistani somehow has negative connotations. Whereas I would simply use it as a term to denote the country a person is from. I have never really moved in the circles where "Paki" is used much, and I don't attach negative connotations to use of "Pakistani". How else would you suggest you describe someone from Pakistan?

EstelleGetty I am mystified as to what baggage I have that controls my sexual preferences! Please let me know what it is!

WorldCitizen in the UK, you are allowed to be as rude as you like about Germans. And to a lesser extent, the Dutch. But other nationalities are afforded more consideration...

well, I don't know why, but I usually am never attracted to Germans

It is racist to me.

It's different to say "I've never been attracted to anyone German previously" IMO as that is a simple fact. To then rule out a whole race of people for future consideration is judgemental etc etc.

It is a subtle difference.

acer12 Wed 21-Aug-13 13:16:18

Would never date a German their accent would piss me off but russian yes please!!!

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 13:17:42

LesMissAbs, I'm not talking about 'baggage' attached to sexual preferences, but to the language and practices of categorising surrounding race.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 13:18:24

Using the term Pakistani to describe someone from Pakistan is obviously not racist.

Using the term Pakistani as a blanket term to describe someone from the Indian subcontinent ^ is^ racist .

acer12 Wed 21-Aug-13 13:18:49

My friend only goes out with African men, she is Caucasian. Does that make her racist?

caramelwaffle Wed 21-Aug-13 13:18:53

And the French LessMiss It's the Frog/Le roast Boeuf thing ... smile

chibi Wed 21-Aug-13 13:20:19

*That's because the areas whites migrated to offered good conditions for farming, which in itself necessitated certain innovations.

Other parts of the world have excellent natural resources too.*

possibly the most bloodless description of colonialism i have ever read

chapeau

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 13:21:33

For anyone not feeling alive, here is one of these threads which can make your blood boil grin

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 13:34:28

lessmiss would you please try and read what I wrote? If course Pakistani is not an offensive term. But when it is meant to denote all Asian people then yes, it is stupid, lazy and offensive. I think that curlew has also tried to point this out to you.

crescentmoon Wed 21-Aug-13 13:55:00

I thought the same chibi, very understated, as if those places with good farmland were empty.

How is that world? I don't see it. I mostly follow critical race theory on the concept that race by skin colour, which did not exist a 700 years ago, and was invented by an elite group of White Europeans to gain and maintain power and to give excuse to their actions. I do not see this as very American (mainly as most American education systems outright banning the usage of this theory, and American governments recent denial of my nations' rights to define its own identity). I view race as a social concept that is fluid and has been altered repeatedly to the benefit and determent of certain groups. Irish as White did not exist in Europe over half a century ago and Jewish people with White skin are far less likely to be viewed as White in Europe today than they are in America or Canada. I view race as a social concept that is very powerful and effects every day life, even for those able to ignore their own race, the race system as it currently stands prevents the full human experience even for White people and as a power system that should be deconstructed. While critical race theory originates in America and uses a lot of American lingo, it aligns with post-colonial social theory which has it's origins in multiple African nations and liberation psychology which followed from post-colonial social theory. My viewpoint may be overly academic, which also brings in a lot of Americanisms as sadly they're seen as the top source on this issue due to European institutions and media disliking discussing issues of race very much though improving on the issue (the recent calling out of it by multiple academics and writers from colonized nations has brought this area much light, the calling out of Belgian education policies by a writer from Congo did wonders for discussion) and also because America's racial history is far more known in the UK than the racial history in Congo which is still shattered by colonial occupation or even history of Australia's history of slavery and classifying indigenous Australians as Fauna within living memory. I do not see that the critical race theory I use is either narrow or particularly aligns with the mainstream American viewpoint, but uses the American racial systems as a speaking point more for clarity on a global scale than anything.

LessMissAbs - Your comment made me laugh. Do you really think it was solely migration that brought about the prosperity? Not the usage of forced free labour for centuries, not the taking of resources from Africa, the Americas, Asia by force, not the flooding of drugs into nations to get the resources that they wanted, not the mass slaughter and genocides freeing up those national resources, not the forced migrations of others off their lands for their resources? If none of it had economic benefits, why would it have been done? It would be even worse if it was just done for fun. Look at the history of chattel slavery - it came about because the European gentry thought it was improper to work the land themselves so brought in others to do it for them, Europe's own indentured servants weren't enough man power and promised the then indentured servants and prisoners of war with appropriate skills from African nations (who unlike the people of the American nations, the skilled African workers were immune through plenty of previous contact) would be returned after serving their sentences. The European gentry lied through their teeth to get more man power for their economic benefit and kept them enslaved and then brought in race as a system to excuse and expand the system even further. Even today, with all this talk about aid, European and American nations get far more resources and wealth from poorer countries http://www.therules.org/ than we ever give to them. By billions. The idea it's just natural resources ignores that the system has been set up to remove the natural resources from one are to the wealthier areas.

And representation has nothing to do with natural resources but rather social systems of power. When Khan, Tonto, and even African deities are portrayed by White people and people excuse as "the best person for the job" and people go ballistic at the idea of a Black woman in King Arthur's court or little orphan Annie being played by a Black girl, the system is obviously stacked. When companies would rather spend ridiculous amounts of money to badly yellowface White actors rather than hire actual Asian ones (Cloud Atlas being the latest), the system has a problem. We're missing on a whole range of stories, perspective and potential because the system is screwed up and ignored as natural when really it's man made, man sustained, and should be taken a part. Representation and media are powerful forces which shape people's perspectives and identities and the exclusion hurts people, damages all of our realities. The doll test has been saying for decades what others have said all along, we've had repeated studies showing current media damages the self-esteem of everyone but white boys, the current system is damaging. Even in the first look at the latest marvel movie, Guardians of the Galaxy, an actor said his main motivation in taking the part is because his young son wanted rid of his dark skin colour because he doesn't see any super heroes who look like him. It's hard to see oneself if it isn't portrayed, it's hard to find people attractive if they're not seen or only in cast in unattractive roles.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 14:03:54

Sorry not read the whole thread, just responding to the OP.

YANBU - you would surely know if you were racist. I don't fancy anyone who isn't white, never have so far anyway.

I think its quite common and in my case is probably because I subconsciously wouldn't want to have a child who doesn't look like me.

twistyfeet Wed 21-Aug-13 14:06:19

Liking all the pics of handsome men. Is that sexist of me?

chibi Wed 21-Aug-13 14:09:40

ain't it cute how it always just works out that way, no reason, no cause, just because

chibi Wed 21-Aug-13 14:10:13

of course you would know if you were racist. that's why no one is!

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 14:12:38

LittleSpork How is that world? I don't see it. I mostly follow critical race theory on the concept that race by skin colour, which did not exist a 700 years ago, and was invented by an elite group of White Europeans to gain and maintain power and to give excuse to their actions

Sorry misunderstood yousmile

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 14:30:45

I think its quite common and in my case is probably because I subconsciously wouldn't want to have a child who doesn't look like me

What a weird thing to say. And if you are happy to say it then it's not really a subconscious preference is it?

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 14:34:49

In fact the more I think about this statement strokey the more confused I get.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 14:39:48

The most racist of people don't "know they're racist." They think they are being fair and sensible. You'll meet very few people who say "I identify as racist."

Knowing and being mindful is the issue at stake here. You have to think about what you're saying and how you're behaving. Would someone else consider it offensive? Would they have grounds for that?

People partake in racist actions without considering themselves racist. Still the same old story.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 14:42:12

And strokey, I don't look much like my mum. I look more like my very dark haired, pale dad. My sister, however, is the double of my mum. My mum certainly didn't choose a man on the basis of how similar to her he looked. I doubt many people do.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 14:42:20

Wise post EstelleGetty.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 14:47:17

Sure Im happy to say it.. why wouldn't I be? Id prefer my children to look similar to me. Cant be sure they will of course, but choosing a black man to father my children would make pretty sure they WONT.

I like that when I look at my kids I can see myself in them. Dunno whats so weird about that.

WilsonFrickett Wed 21-Aug-13 14:53:21

Strokey, I also find that statement a bit odd. Children look like their parents in many ways. My friend has two mixed race children and her daughter is her image, albeit with a different skin colour.

Personally my "type" is very very pale blokes (I like goths, it makes sense) often with blue eyes and that tends to rule out asian guys. It also rules out tanned guys. No idea if that seems racist, I just have a narrow ideal. Probably a more sensible way of viewing it would be to go on personality alone, and I know people do, but it's not easy to ignore physical attraction.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 14:58:01

Words fail me grin

EnviablePins Wed 21-Aug-13 15:03:01

Not sure if you are being racist or not, OP. But I will say, that after always having had a preference for tall, fair Caucasian men, I am now madly in love (and lust) with a man who is just about the opposite of everything I ever found attractive. He is Chinese, 1cm shorter than me, kind of skinny, smooth chest, doesn't get stubble - so many things, and yet now I look at him and I am amazed thinking what I would have missed if I hadn't taken a chance on being with him because 'I don't fancy Chinese men'. Just saying!

BoozyBear Wed 21-Aug-13 15:06:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 15:08:13

But surely with a black father my children would have dark skin, eyes and hair?? Right? Whereas I am blonde, with very blue eyes. If I were to mate with a black man, I assume there would be zero chance of our offspring inheriting my blue eyes?? Or what?

Isnt there some theory about being attracted to people who could be a sibling? Based on looks? My husband is also blonde with blue eyes, and looks very like me. People always say we could be brother and sister.

Im sure Ive read something about it

chibi Wed 21-Aug-13 15:09:05

oh barf @ mate with a black man

jesus murphy

hmm

You are definitely no geneticist are you strokey?

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:12:09

My birth children all have blue eyes.
Actually.

They are all mixed race, from the same father. He has brown eyes mine are blue.

Only one DC has brown eyes but he is adopted.

You do realise that 'mate with a black man' sounds really, really dehumanising don't you?

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:12:56

My adopted DS's birth sister is blonde with green eyes.
I have two nephews who are blonde with blue eyes.

hmm

chibi Wed 21-Aug-13 15:13:05

nothing like trivialising human relationships, eh mrs devere

mate indeed

gross gross gross

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 15:13:15

well, I don't know why, but I usually am never attracted to Germans. It is racist to me. It's different to say "I've never been attracted to anyone German previously" IMO as that is a simple fact. To then rule out a whole race of people for future consideration is judgemental etc etc.

I could say that usually I am not attracted to black, asian, etc men, but I could not say that I've never been attracted to anyone black, asian, etc, because I have. But it is still true that usually I'm not.

(of course it's bad grammar to say "I usually am never attracted to". You are usually not attracted or you are never attracted.)

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:13:39

Are you kidding strokey?

If you're attracted to your siblings you have bigger problems than NOT being attracted to non-whites grin

God this thread is giving me a headache. Time to bugger off and eat some cake.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:15:14

Have your dc's inherited your cognitive skills strokey?

hope not

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 15:16:32

Very funny, I think Im right actually, black men don't tend to father little blonde children.

My point is that no, its not racist, its just a preference IMO.

stopprocrastinating Wed 21-Aug-13 15:17:41

One of my oldest friends is married to a Sri Lankan. She never fancied Asian blokes until she met her husband. It's the person not the ethnicity.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 21-Aug-13 15:18:10

Reading "mate with a black man" has left me at a loss for words.

What.the.fuck?

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 15:19:10

Strokey, chances are quite a few black men (and women) are actually mixed race and carry genes for blue eyes, even blonde hair and fair skin.

You are right in people choosing partners somewhat more similar to their families, but that also includes other people we are in contact with when growing up.
Being similar may not be only about skin/hair/eye colour. It includes loads of other characteristics, such as height, shape (head, nose, ears, eyes, body), weight even, hair, voice, way of moving, even wearing glasses or not.

It's not 100%, though.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:19:13

Refusing to consider black men because they won't give you your little blonde dolly child is racist.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:21:07

Seriously. I have never considered someone's race when deciding if they're fit or not. Show me 100 men from any race you can think of, I'll find at least one that I would jump in a heartbeat. Statistically, you just would, wouldn't you?

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:28:03

You think you are right?
Why.

I just gave you THREE examples off the top of my head.

I also told you that MY children all have blue eyes.

The things you are saying are the sort of things that a total fuckwit might say.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:29:33

The things you are saying are the sort of things that a total fuckwit might say.

Arf grin QTF.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 15:29:50

I don't want a little blonde dolly though, just a child who resembles me. If that makes me racist according to you, that's fine with me.

chibi Wed 21-Aug-13 15:31:14

probably just as well. imagine being the mixed race child of a mother like that sad

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:33:33

Are you really that Georges Strokey?
Have a look at my profile. Do you reckon you are better looking than my DD?

I think its unlikely, however fucking blonde you are.

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 15:36:35

The problem, Strokey, is that your definition of "resembles me" is based on colour (and possibly hair and little else).

Your child would still resemble you. Maybe just not have the same colour as you.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 15:36:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:38:17

Surely wanting a healthy, happy child is the only consideration? Why the bollocks would you care if they look like you or not? You could "mate" with the whitest white man going and the wonder of nature and genetics could mean your children STILL look bugger all like you.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 15:39:43

Slightly off-topic, but your DD is beautiful, Mrs De Vere.

DH and I have the same hair colour, same eye colour, same skin colour. DS however still looks nothing like me and everything like his dad.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:39:57

Oh sure Strokey, accuse people if having mental health problems. That sounds like a good idea.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:40:50

You are definitely posting in the style of someone who might be considered a complete twat.

The theory might even be put forward that a racist airhead might write the sort of thing that you have.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:41:45

Thank you estelle. smile

She had the brightest blue eyes you ever saw.

Despite her mother mating with a darkie hmm

Ahhhcrap Wed 21-Aug-13 15:45:12

I don't think it's racist. I don't fancy short blokes. Does that make me heightest?

As a slight aside, DS is blonde. It turns out my now dark haired DH was once a blondie. DH will not let me live down being in the delivery room and the doctor saying, "aww the baby has light brown hair" and I responded (in my exhausted state) rather too loudly with, "light BROWN?!?"

Apparently I sounded disgusted. grin

So don't think "mating" with a white bloke will get you your little clone.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 15:46:54

Wanting a happy healthy child is the PRIMARY consideration, but I like that my children look like me physically too.

I know there is no guarantee, but it definitely helped that I chose a white guy to father them.

If I adopted (never would) Id also prefer a child who looked like me. I think lots of people do when choosing donor sperm etc.

Im not sure what part of that is so baffling to you - its not like Im doing genetic testing.

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 15:49:43

You still don't understand it, do you Strokey?

Your children might still look like you even in a darker tone of skin and curly hair.

Conversely, they might be blonde and blue eyed and look nothing like you.

So, you just want them to look blonde and blue eye.

You're lucky nature didn't play with you

genetics is a bitch

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 15:50:20

It's baffling because it's so incredibly ignorant and racist and I thought attitudes like that died out with the dinosaurs.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:50:22

It is baffling because most people don't give a toss if their child looks like them.

Why would they?

The only person I know who is like that is my adopted child's birth mother.
Which gives you a clue as to why he was removed from her and put into care in the first place.

'If I adopted (never would)' Fuck me you are the gift who just keeps on giving aren't you?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 21-Aug-13 15:54:51

Lweji

Thanks for posting that story about the twins. Amazing. Beautiful children.

strokey

neither of my sons look much like me. I think it must have been the milkwoman.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 21-Aug-13 15:55:56

egocentricity tends to need to go out of the window/on the back burner if one is to become a good parent.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 15:56:07

Rubbish. Loads of people hope that their child looks like them, or someone they love! Its completely normal. Call me racist if you like, I dont care.

I hoped my children looked like me and they do.. doesn't mean Id abandon them if they didn't.

And NO I wouldn't adopt either. Has that offended you too?

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 15:56:23

Ahhhcrap, I think the issue is that race is the topic we're dealing with here. Categorising all persons/men/women of a certain race as one thing remains a racist act, because it generalises and depersonalises people. There aren't centuries of prejudice, hierarchy and abuse related to short men. We all really just need to think about what we're saying. Chances are, if it sounds racist, it is racist.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:57:53

Not really
Relief is the predominant emotion tbh.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 16:00:28

I have a son who looks nothing like me at all. I've often wondered if he's mine. Should I go for a maternity test?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 21-Aug-13 16:01:42

For some light relief, go on the website Lweji has linked and check out the baby twins having a babbled conversation. Fascinating

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 16:02:03

He's the spitting image of my Dp, though. Do you think the bastard slept with someone else?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Wed 21-Aug-13 16:06:07

curlew

it's the milkwoman I tell ya

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 16:09:39

My nephew looks like my SIL's father (spitting image and mannerisms) and not like my brother.
hmm

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 16:16:08

I am going to swap mind for some white ones.
The scales have fallen from my eyes. WTF was I thinking, mating with a black man?!
I will name them after me as well.

I am sure if I rock up at SS they won't mind me being specific about the exact kind of child I am prepared to parent.

They like it when you do that. I think i read it somewhere.

Montybojangles Wed 21-Aug-13 16:41:55

strokey I believe you will find that research actually points to the opposite of what you think. We are attracted to a "mate" more if they are genetically different to ourselves, the theory being that it is nature trying to keep us from having an incestuous relationship which would be more likely to yield sickly offspring or increase the risk of miscarriage.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 16:57:01

strokey your little phrase mate with a black man made me heave, WTAF? Have you any idea how you sound?

Plus, I am adopted. I do not really look a whole lot like my parents but you know what? They love me anyway because they are not twats who feel the need to see themselves reflected back at them every time they look at their child

Your posts have made me angry

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 16:59:29

And Mrs D. your daughter is amazingly beautiful.

PaperSeagull Wed 21-Aug-13 17:01:56

One of the best posts on this thread was made by EldritchCleavage on the very first page. I think some of her words bear repeating:

"It might be, but it isn't necessarily. Sometimes people aren't attracted to people of a specific race because they've internalised (not necessarily consciously) negative ideas and stereotypes about that race. So the lack of attraction comes from racist thinking, if you see what I mean. Or just the fact that the race in question has a lower status in the society, something like that."

As others have pointed out, race is a social construct with no biological reality. That doesn't mean it is unimportant. But it does mean that our perception of race is very much bound up in our cultural conditioning.

I can't imagine writing off large swathes of the population as being unattractive (or even "unattractive to me"). That just seems like such an oddly limited way of looking at the world.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 17:04:26

I was just thinking, I don't have DCs yet, but would like to soon. Whatever they turn out looking like, that's all good.

HOWEVER, if they somehow end up ignorant and racist, I would disown them. But I don't mate with a racist, so hopefully chances aren't too high.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 17:13:00

Mating with a racist would be a bad thing to do indeed. grin

25 years ago I'd have said I was not attracted to men with fair hair. Dark hair was my thang.
DH is a fair pale Scotsman.
Maybe you've just never met one that floats your boat?

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 17:20:02

i see the debate has, er, 'moved on' been injected with a whole can o' crazy since i last posted.

I just want to say again that such an oddly limited way of looking at the world. would only be relevant if who you fancy was a conscious decision. But what most people (the ones who aren't banging on about mini mes at least) are saying is it is just instinctive. If, as i said in my previous postyou choose a race because you fetishise them based on steroetypes or eugenic principles, then you are making a conscious choice. Which is ignorant.

usuallyright Wed 21-Aug-13 17:21:49

Dr.Ranj
Naveen Andrews.
I'm sorry OP, but you just would.

Moche Wed 21-Aug-13 17:26:58

lesmisabs “ any rate, any Pakistani with that phenotype is likely to be a descendant of Alexander the Great or his army, or to have some European ancestry because it isn't a spontaneous mutation or throwback - Asians are thought to have moved directly from early Homo Sapiens in the Great Rift Valley, and then proto-Europeans then emigrated from Asia to what is now Europe, both hundreds of thousands of years ago. Northern Europeans then adapted to conditions which would have included attractiveness for reproduction, so it would appear to be not unusual for Northern Europeans to be attracted to fair skinned fellow Northern Europeans, otherwise blond/e hair colour would not have evolved so successfully.”
Hah, do quit your lecturing: wow, your data are completely out of date. Where is your evidence that modern humans were in Asia hundreds of thousands of years ago? This is a long-dead theory. I am an archaeologist and as far as I’m aware, the oldest known anatomically modern evidence for humans in the Indian Subcontinent comes from Jwalapuram and is dated to 75,000 years ago. Anatomically modern humans (us) haven’t even been around for hundreds of thousands of years. As for your statement that the blue eyed northern Pakistanis that I referred to are probably descended from Alexander the Great, then yes, this is very possible – and just shows how trying to pigeon hole a whole race as un-fanciable is down right silly since there can be a great range of types within a continent/country/”race”. Also I think you’ll also find that we (modern humans) have all evolved equally successfully (not just those from N Europe) since we’re all the same (homo sapien sapiens). But let’s not get into a definition of success (if in terms of numbers then the Asian subcontinent could be thought of as more successful) if in terms of standard of living then the current northern Europeans may be thought of as more successful.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 17:29:07

oh and there is a genetic reason we find differences attractive - look at the Hapsburgs. here comes the science bit

LynetteScavo Wed 21-Aug-13 17:40:48

No thank you to Dr Ranj.

Actually, I don't fancy anyone on the planet to day.

Littleen Wed 21-Aug-13 17:47:31

That's not racist! I'm not keen on indian/pakistani men either, although I did meet one which was very attractive - an exception to the "rule". Also not attracted to ginger men, despite being a redhead myself. Life isn't fair, but well - I don't see it being judgemental, it's just based on first impressions, and one could easily fall in love with someone who doesn't attract in the looks dpt, given some time! Has happened to me, and I'm sure lots of others smile

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 17:50:15

Actually, there is a mixture of seeking genetic differences and seeking people somewhat (but not quite) like our relatives.

Incest is prevented mainly by biological barriers created during our growth years.
That is why some reunited siblings, parent-offspring may end up in incestuous relationships.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 17:53:18

Don't you think it rather odd to say that you are 'not keen' on Indian/Pakistani men? You are not talking about a physical such as ginger hair or blue eyes, you are talking about a specific nationality! Do you actually mean that you are not keen on the skin colour of these men? And if not, then what?

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 17:53:55

Missing word was trait

Thepowerof3 Wed 21-Aug-13 18:09:22

Mating! Yuk

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 18:10:57

Lweji - my last post was a bit tongue in cheek ;) I agree with people liking similarities too. (My DH's have both looked like me with a beard - so a glimpse into the future for me really grin ).

And yes for me it does seem to be skin colour and tone (and 'build' being 5"10' i like a big bloke too). I have always gone for very pale ruddy cheeked celts. So olive/dark skin (altho i know i am in a minority when all my friends drool over Asian/Mediterannean, smouldering, sultry, sexy men) doesn't do anything for me - altho i appreciate the aesthetic beauty of it.

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 18:11:53

You arent racist because you say youre not attracted to pakistani men.If you dont find someone attractive then you dont,you dont have to explain that to anyone.If you know your arent racist,you arent racist.Being racist is a very big and offensive thing to label someone as.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 18:13:33

So maybe she shouldn't say ambiguous statements that can very easily be read as racist.

BoozyBear Wed 21-Aug-13 18:15:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 18:22:23

StuntGirl, that's it! On the nose! We don't live in a world where making any kind of generalisation based on race isn't politically loaded. So if people don't want to be 'insulted' and called racist, they shouldn't say things which could be interpreted as such. We're all clever enough to think before we speak, be aware of history and how it shapes the world we live in now.

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 18:25:40

People shouldnt TELL someone what they are,noone should pluck one thing someone said and then make assumptions about it with no proof of that persons opinions and feelngs.Its very very offensive to label someone in that way,calling someone racist is not a light comment.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 18:33:17

LimitedEditionLady, people shouldn't make comments which could offend or be interpreted as racist.

Bubblepuppy Wed 21-Aug-13 18:35:13

I used to think this when i was younger, and would have been horrified to think it was racist. But it was born out of ignorance on my part. I just hadn't actually really met or seen that many Indian men and I had more stereotypical ways of thinking then. I've since been to India and now recognise the diversity and realise that it isn't true that I don't find some Indian or Pakistani men attractive, because I do.

I also find some East Asian men attractive, and some African. I'm sure I do have a physical 'type' within this which some men fit and some don't.

Also, I've just been for lunch with a mum and baby who is the spitting image of her, except with a bit darker skin and curlier hair, because the dad is black. So I've seen with my own eyes that it's a load of nonsense to say that a mixed race baby will not look like its parents.

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 18:38:11

Racist is a harsh word.You can easily word something wrong you cant wipe away someone calling you a racist and telling others you are.If you seriously thought the OP was racist youd have some much sterner things,to say wouldnt you?i would.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 18:41:45

I think people should be adult enough not to word something wrong, if it could sound racist. A person isn't racist, their behaviour or words can be. I don't think being called out on a racist remark is worse than being subjected to one.

Littleen Wed 21-Aug-13 18:47:25

littlemog - it's nothing to do with skin colour or anything like that, I just find that the typical indian or pakistani male is not attractive. I am however hugely attracted to indian or pakistani women (yes, a little bi). I have no idea why, I really don't! I'm extremely picky though, it should be said, and I used the indian/pakistani as an example. I fancy japanese men, but not chinese. Based on the "typical" geographical difference in facial features. Not because of the country or skin colour. Black guys can be super hot, but not so much the Somalian look (they have different lips), I like white guys, but not those with giant noses.. It's just taste, it's not about colour. I'd love to have a mixed race baby, as I think mixed race is the prettiest ever, but mine is going to most likely be blond or ginger!

Littleen Wed 21-Aug-13 18:48:11

Also not keen on freckles, despite having a huge chunk of them myself. mhmmm..racist to myself?

Littleen Wed 21-Aug-13 18:54:32

Sorry to drip feed, but it really grumbles me when someone suggest I judge people by skin colour. It is just silly. I must assume that the majority are aware of how facial features and body types vary according to geographical location, f.ex africans have often curly hair, asians rarely. It's not racism, it's just how it is.

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 19:02:51

Saying you are not attracted to asian men dorsnt sound racist unless you make it sound racist.
I dont find the characteristics of mecican men attractive.Am i now racist?

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 19:03:12

Mexican sorry

Solari Wed 21-Aug-13 19:07:27

I'm white, and have only ever been attracted to black men... not that I don't think men of other ethnicities can't be objectively good-looking (I can tell that they are), but they just don't give me that feeling of desire when I look at them for some reason.

Weirdly, its the reverse with women (am bisexual) and have only ever been attracted to white or indian women.

Solari Wed 21-Aug-13 19:08:45

Oh, and saying I'm attracted to or not attracted to someone's looks doesn't mean that's the only thing I hold important.

Its not the only thing, nor the ultimate judge of whether I date someone or not, but if we're going by looks alone, then I think most people do have a "type" they go for more than others.

Littleen Wed 21-Aug-13 19:10:47

Sad thing with this whole attracted / race issue is that it's all down to how you word it, and an unfortunate wording can get you in trouble. Sigh. One of those topics it's better to stear clear of IRL.

JaceyBee Wed 21-Aug-13 19:26:34

Admittedly I haven't rtft but my Pakistani man is the most gorgeous sexy motherfucker I have ever laid eyes on.

I have personally never been attracted to blonde, scandi types. Doesn't mean to say I would never be, I just generally prefer my men dark, exh has Jamaican blood.

Latara Wed 21-Aug-13 19:32:43

One of my best mates used to like nothing but ginger men, well built body type with pale skin.

She's now married to a very slim dark haired man with olive skin.

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 19:40:29

Sometimes i think as soon as somebody says "asian" people do wait to point out the speaker as racist.Anyway each to their own,i fancy jason statham and my oh couldnt look any less like him....

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 19:50:30

mixed race is the prettiest ever

Sigh.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 19:55:21

What have freckles got to do with being racist confused

How is that anyway comparable to someone talking about 'mating with a black man'

This shit aint funny.

Its actually quite important to some of us.

Feminine Wed 21-Aug-13 19:58:46

This thread continues to surprise me...

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 20:03:47

God, you go away for a few hours and it all goes insane again. There's nothing 'sad' about people having to consider what they say so they don't come across racist. It's sad that people have to listen to culturally, politically ignorant racist drivel and shrug it off because the speaker 'didn't mean it.'

candycoatedwaterdrops Wed 21-Aug-13 20:11:35

Am I the only one who hopes that their children with NOT look like their mother?! grin

acer12 Wed 21-Aug-13 20:19:49

Would this have kicked off so much if the poster had said she wasn't attracted to Caucasian men?

acer12 Wed 21-Aug-13 20:20:43

Would this have kicked off so much if the poster had said she wasn't attracted to Caucasian men?

I love Mumsnet sometimes. Great that an actual archaeologist (*Moche*) turned up on the thread to argue the toss. smile

OP, no one gives a shit whom you fancy.

MrsDeVere Wed 21-Aug-13 20:26:59

Why do people keeping making trite comments?

This thread has become silly.
We all have a 'type' we are attracted to, i don't see how op was racist but she could have better worded it to her friends.

If someone of ethnic minority said they only dated/fancied those of their own culture and didn't fancy caucasians this thread wouldn't be where it's at right now.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 20:49:04

You're probably right, pumpkinsweetie, but the two scenarios are difficult to compare, mainly because - historically - white people haven't had to endure racism as non-white people have. If someone said to me "you can't dance because you're white," I'd say "whatever." It's not persecution. But if someone makes a sweeping generalisation about a person of colour, it has a whole legacy of oppression behind it. I don't think we can ignore that or get complacent.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 20:51:21

<tries again>

It's not racist to say you are not usually sexually attracted to a particular racial type. A bit odd and blinkered perhaps, but not necessarily racist.

It is racist to use "Pakistani" as a blanket term to describe anyone from the Indian subcontinent.

I know I have a type I'm attracted to.

Dark hair and dark eyes, some muscles (but not overkill) can be nice.

This does cover a wide range of people, but from the slebs I'm been attracted to on tv, I can narrow it down to mostly white or olive skinned, but not too dark skinned. And yes, sometimes I have found myself attracted to some Asian men who haven't had too dark a skin colour.

But that's just the physical type I like (and it's taken me years to work out what I've been attracted to).

DP has light brown hair and steel grey eyes. Thing is, once I met him, I got talking to him, and then the personality took over from the physical type. And we've been together more than 26 years, now.

Physical type is just the initial attraction for me, it's talking to someone,etc that makes the difference afterwards.

worldcitizen Wed 21-Aug-13 21:06:35

Lweji (of course it's bad grammar to say "I usually am never attracted to". You are usually not attracted or you are never attracted.)

Thanks for the English grammar lesson thanks

Lweji Wed 21-Aug-13 21:38:04

a person has far more genetically in common with a random person of another race than a random person of one's own

What you mean is that the genetic distance between two random people from the same race is greater than the average genetic distance between two races.

Race is a human construct designed to put different people in nice boxes. There is a continuum, although we tend to recognise stereotypes for certain groups.

Interesting the comment about the different European/Caucasian races, when Caucasians are much more similar to each other than any two people with a high African genetic heritage.
But lots of people in Europe wouldn't be able to distinguish easily the most genetically distant groups, all within Africa.

Race is not the same as ethnical background.

I certainly don't consider myself part of a race. Just a species, but yes I have a predominantly White European genetic background. With green eyes and pale skin, although south European.

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 21:45:01

That was the point i was making. whomever said would it be a problem if op said caucasian instead.
Feels sometimes if someone says anything to do with asian it all kicks off.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 21:55:13

<glances down at invisibility cloak><shrugs>

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 22:07:13

I heard you curlew,i agree ( first time for everything lol)

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 22:07:34

Quite like your cloak too.

curlew Wed 21-Aug-13 22:17:23

<twirls><remembers invisibility><sulks>

LimitedEditionLady Wed 21-Aug-13 22:20:57

Shout louder.shout "penis" always a head turner.

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 22:42:00

I personally don't mind if I am labelled racist by a few people. Its so subjective as this thread shows.

I don't fancy black people, and I like that my children have similar colouring to myself. If you think that is racist so be it. I am expecting number 3 and will love her no matter what she looks like obviously.

I had no idea that the using the word mate in place of reproduce is racist! Isnt it just juvenile? We say it a lot.

funkypigeon Wed 21-Aug-13 22:45:31

Ok, so I worded it wrong. I get that. I should not have said that 'I am not usually attracted to Asian men' because it's using a blanket term. I should have worded it better, that's for sure.

ravenAK Wed 21-Aug-13 22:47:05

Just RTFT. What curlew said. Nice cloak btw.

EstelleGetty Wed 21-Aug-13 22:47:43

Racism is not subjective. It's not like 'are One Direction shit or not?' There is racist and there is not racist.

I'll grant you the fact that a person can be ill informed and say racist things without intending to offend, but the deed remains offensive.

And what does shouting 'penis' have to do with this discussion?

strokey Wed 21-Aug-13 22:55:36

Hm, well, there are plenty of people on here saying the OPs situation is racist. Plenty saying it isn't.

So not everyone is in agreement on what constitutes racism.

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 22:55:50

What if no 3 was born black? I believe that this can happen in very rare circumstances. If she came out a different colour to you, would you still lover her?

littlemog Wed 21-Aug-13 22:56:52

Or even love her? I am not a Devonian!

Secretswitch Wed 21-Aug-13 23:06:26

My last mating produced a child looking nothing like me or her father. Wonder what's up with that?!

StuntGirl Thu 22-Aug-13 00:35:34

Probably because half the people on this thread are racist too.

LessMissAbs Thu 22-Aug-13 04:00:02

Have to say I read it as the op giving Pakistani as an example of a nationality she wasn't attracted to. I'm not sure why she mentioned Pakistanis in particular, but since the post mentions a conversation, it might have simply been something that came up in conversation.

(of course if she had said get and, or Scandinavians, the number of posts claiming she was racist would be reduced by a tenth). At least. (am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with it being assumed that mentioning someone is Pakistani has such connotations that some consider it racist? Outwith the op's post?)

Moche your post was interesting (apart from the cawing). Archaelogists are not the only people allowed to have discussions on human evolution. Geneticists and linguists also have opinions, as do scientists.

The whole history of human evolution is full of conflict over resources. I realise that picking one ethnic group and period of time and blaming it all on them is terribly trendy and right on.

I also loved the post (sorry forgotten the name and can't scroll back on phone) of the poster who suggested that if someone disagrees with her, they must have 'baggage'!

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 06:53:33

"am I the only one feeling uncomfortable with it being assumed that mentioning someone is Pakistani has such connotations that some consider it racist? Outwith the op's post?)"

I don't think anyone has said that.

ArgyMargy Thu 22-Aug-13 08:08:50

LessMiss has made a good point. Pakistani is the most unfortunate country to name, as "Paki" has consistently been used as an insulting term for anyone brown who is clearly not of African origin. And the OP has just admitted that she should have used Asian - thereby implying that she herself thinks of Asians as "Pakis".

I agree that if she had said Swedish, she may have had fewer accusations of racism.

creighton Thu 22-Aug-13 08:13:47

stroke who is the 'we' that uses the word mate about having children?

people don't like the word because it is what you use about animals. do you think this language is appropriate to use about people who do not look like you?

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 08:19:42

And the sort of people who would use "Paki" to mean anyone with brown skin thinks they are OK to say Pakistani, because that's the "proper word".....

worldcitizen Thu 22-Aug-13 08:26:12

I would also agree with LessMiss and Argy. I also get the feeling it's about the mentioning of Pakistan or Asian which has caused way more emotional reactions.

Like I've said before. Would there be the mention of Germans, for example....

Latara Thu 22-Aug-13 08:27:48

Why are people using the word 'mating' - that's what animals do, not humans!

I never ever hear RL people using the term 'to mate' instead of 'have sex with' or 'sleep with'!

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 08:29:07

It's the use of Pakistani to mean "person with brown skin" that's the problem.

<curlew continues one woman awareness programme........>

ArgyMargy Thu 22-Aug-13 08:40:40

Agreed, curlew. And we are just a short step away from the N word...

Latara Thu 22-Aug-13 08:41:01

Curlew that too is a problem.

Latara Thu 22-Aug-13 08:48:45

To rule out fancying men / women from entire continents does seem very drastic - how does anyone know until they actually talk to someone whether they might fancy them?

I say this because i'd never considered South-East Asian men to be attractive.. then I met a man from the Phillipines - I got to know him at work, really liked his personality, started finding him physically attractive and we had an affair.

Now I don't rule out any men due to race or ethnicity - who knows until you get to know a man?

samandi Thu 22-Aug-13 08:57:06

*well, I don't know why, but I usually am never attracted to Germans
It is racist to me.

It's different to say "I've never been attracted to anyone German previously" IMO as that is a simple fact. To then rule out a whole race of people for future consideration is judgemental etc etc. *

Saying you are usually never attracted to a certain race/nationality/ethnicity etc. is also a simple fact. Saying you are usually not attracted to a certain race etc. does not mean that you would rule them out in future.

worldcitizen Thu 22-Aug-13 09:00:48

Latara I say this because i'd never considered South-East Asian men to be attractive

so where is the difference to OP, who had a conversation with a friend and said

I am not usually attracted to Asian men

and her friend said she was being racist hmm

maybe, if her friend would have told her a story like yours or could have referred to someone like you and your experiences and said

Someone at work or a friend I know never considered South-East Asian men to be attractive.. then she met a man from the Phillipines - She got to know him at work, really liked his personality, started finding him physically attractive and we had an affair.
Now she doesn't rule out any men due to race or ethnicity - who knows until you get to know a man?

Why make things bigger than they are?

worldcitizen Thu 22-Aug-13 09:06:14

samandi I don't get your post.

Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK.

samandi Thu 22-Aug-13 09:10:57

For some reason people seem offended because I said I don't generally fancy Pakistani men partly because they usually have moustaches ...

Can anyway define exactly what the problem is with this? Am I supposed to force myself to look past what is to me a very physically unattractive feature?

My views towards Pakistani cultural attitudes towards women also seem to have hit a sore point. Perhaps some posters need reminding that violence against women (especially rape and sexual abuse) in Pakistan is a huge problem, that domestic violence is not illegal, that women do not have the same access to education and property ownership as men etc. etc.

samandi Thu 22-Aug-13 09:12:35

*samandi I don't get your post.

Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK.*

I'm not talking about the way Pakistani/Asian is used. I'm just saying that saying you are not usually attracted to a certain race doesn't mean you might not be in the future.

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 09:13:58

"Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK.Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist. Please, even I cannot get a grip anymore with all the changes and the ins-and outs of how to describe people in the UK."

Anyone who uses "Pakistani" as a blanket term to mean a person from the Indian subcontinent is being racist.

Which "changes and ins and outs" are you referring to?

samandi Thu 22-Aug-13 09:18:21

Not everyone who mis-uses Pakistani or Asian or any other term IS racist.

Why would they mis-use it?

Jinsei Thu 22-Aug-13 09:20:56

Anyone who uses "Pakistani" as a blanket term to mean a person from the Indian subcontinent is being racist.

Yes, I agree with this. It's just a "politer" version of "paki", isn't it.

Jinsei Thu 22-Aug-13 09:21:28

Anyone who uses "Pakistani" as a blanket term to mean a person from the Indian subcontinent is being racist.

Yes, I agree with this. It's just a "politer" version of "paki", isn't it.

Latara Thu 22-Aug-13 09:24:00

Sorry worldcitizen but I don't really understand your post about my post?

I was saying that I used to have an attitude towards some South-East Asian men a bit like the OP's towards some Pakistani and Indian men, but have changed my views because I learned that personality is what is more attractive than looks; and that you can become physically attracted by personality IYSWIM.

Not sure what's wrong with me saying that?

worldcitizen Thu 22-Aug-13 09:32:10

Nothing wrong with you saying this at all smile That's my point.

So nothing wrong with OP as she said the same you used to say, assuming you weren't racist then, right?!

So, why not allowing that someone is not at that point in life (yet or maybe never) where you are now???
Without being accused of one of the most offensive terms.
Maybe she gets there or maybe not.

It's certainly not something THAT important.

People here who make blank accusations of racism are folks I would like to run a mile away from in real life.
Meaning: I would keep my relations to you at work or in public life to a a very polite minimum.
Now go and call that racist as well...

Moche Thu 22-Aug-13 10:04:52

I really hate this ignorant thread!

Samandi: "
My views towards Pakistani cultural attitudes towards women also seem to have hit a sore point. Perhaps some posters need reminding that violence against women (especially rape and sexual abuse) in Pakistan is a huge problem, that domestic violence is not illegal, that women do not have the same access to education and property ownership as men etc. etc."

What the fuck daily mail ahoy. The well-off Pakistani women have every access to education as men. So many female doctors, for example. And remember that Benazir Bhutto ran their country. (Although unlike Thatcher she was assassinated...albeit not for her sex!)

Think about what rights we women have in the west, too. Hardly equal rights.

Amrapaali Thu 22-Aug-13 10:10:05

Hear, hear Moche!!

Moche Thu 22-Aug-13 10:10:45

And what rape and sexual abuse? We have this here. During my time in Pakistan I remember a nurturing environment and know of no rape cases among Pakistani friends (although, equally, I only know of one rape case among (white) UK friends). What you hear is valid (here and there) but it doesn't mean everyone is being raped and hurt (here or there).

Moche Thu 22-Aug-13 10:15:28

Actually, the same sort of clap-trap comes from other countries (thinking hard-line Saudis) who think everyone in the west is evil and being raped and hurt. Those sort of hard-line Saudis are a worry I'll agree, but NOTHINg to do with most Pakistanis (mant of whom follow a more sort of mystic, Buddhist, branch of Islam, known as Sufism). Assuming, Samandi, that you know that gentle Buddhism comes from the area that is northern Pakistan and imbues the thinking? Thought not.

samandi Thu 22-Aug-13 10:45:33

*What the fuck daily mail ahoy. The well-off Pakistani women have every access to education as men. So many female doctors, for example. And remember that Benazir Bhutto ran their country. (Although unlike Thatcher she was assassinated...albeit not for her sex!)

Think about what rights we women have in the west, too. Hardly equal rights.*

The "well-off" women.

Seriously? We have a hell of a lot better equal rights than in Pakistan ...

Buddhist, branch of Islam, known as Sufism). Assuming, Samandi, that you know that gentle Buddhism comes from the area that is northern Pakistan and imbues the thinking? Thought not.

Erm, Buddhism originally developed in northern India, in Bihar. I do know that, because I have been there. Sufism developed quite later, about 1500 years later. If you're going to try and argue based on history, at least get your facts right and/or don't try to confuse people by referring to Sufism as Buddhism.

Pakistan is an overwhelmingly Muslim nation. It was actually formed as a Muslim nation. The numbers of people of any other religion are miniscule.

Latara Thu 22-Aug-13 12:11:44

worldcitizen I didn't accuse the OP of being racist or even use the 'racism' word so don't pick on my post thanks.

funkypigeon Thu 22-Aug-13 12:43:31

Right, reading through the thread has made me look it at it a different way. Here are the facts that I'm saying- I am not usually attracted to men from Pakistan, India, Philippines, China, Sri Lanka ok? I am stating facts here. Isn't it a simple as that? I wouldn't rule them out but it was a statement that I made.

I think some people are just being silly here, I really do.

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 13:13:13

. Here are the facts that I'm saying- I am not usually attracted to men from Pakistan, India, Philippines, China, Sri Lanka ok?"

And you called them all Pakistani because?

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 22-Aug-13 13:14:22

This thread has gone quite odd.

I'm not usually attracted to most men full stop. There are a lot of them and the majority are never going to float my boat. I do have a type - tall,skinny,dark haired, bit geeky. That covers a multitude of men of all races obviously.

EstelleGetty Thu 22-Aug-13 14:03:09

I also loved the post (sorry forgotten the name and can't scroll back on phone) of the poster who suggested that if someone disagrees with her, they must have 'baggage'!

LessMiss. For the third time. I have no idea how you managed to take from my post that I a) suggest that sexual preferences have 'baggage' attached or b) suggest that anyone who disagrees with me has 'baggage.'

In fact, I never used the term 'baggage' in conjunction with a person. I said discussions surrounding race and racial terminology carry baggage or, if you prefer, are loaded with meanings and connotations formed from centuries of hierarchy, prejudice and abuse. Which cannot be forgotten. And that is why we need to always speak mindfully and respectfully when we speak about race, because misuse of words can still be offensive and harmful to people. The histories of colonialism and oppression are not going to go away.

I think that's pretty much essential for decent behaviour.

Funkypigeon, what you said initially could be construed as racist. But you've clarified what you meant, apologised for any offence caused and that is enough. I don't think there are racist 'people,' there are racist behaviours and we have certainly all been guilty of offensive behaviour at points in our lives.

ArgyMargy Thu 22-Aug-13 14:27:55

Yes, funky. For future reference, population of Asia is 4.1bn, population of Pakistan is 178m. India is 1.2bn, China is 1.3bn. So if you are going to name one country to stand as a proxy for Asia, Pakistan is not really a good choice. In fact why not use Asia to refer to Asia.

funkypigeon Thu 22-Aug-13 15:04:35

argymargy- you are sarcastic, what a horrible trait. Can't you write properly?

Yes I did clarify, and apologised so that should be the end of it.

funkypigeon Thu 22-Aug-13 15:05:47

Because, curlew I made a mistake when writing it.

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 15:09:52

You wrote Pakistani by mistake?

How on earth did you do that?

funkypigeon Thu 22-Aug-13 15:12:16

Actually it was because I felt weird putting Pakistani again so I put Asian instead. Ok?

curlew Thu 22-Aug-13 15:15:09

Not OK.

funkypigeon Thu 22-Aug-13 15:30:09

Oh alright curlew, give it a rest will you?

ArgyMargy Thu 22-Aug-13 15:32:27

Yes, funky, I can write properly. I didn't mean to seem quite so sarcastic, however, so I apologise.

funkypigeon Thu 22-Aug-13 15:37:44

Apology accepted, argy

OP I don't think it is racist no, your preference is your preference.

Personally I only seem to go for white men with dark hair and blue eyes and a particular build, that rules out a whole host of other men. It is my personal preference that is all.

There is so much sensitivity around race now, that people like the OP are worried about voicing their personal preference even when it is entirely reasonable (and human), I find that very sad.

MoonlightPicnic Thu 22-Aug-13 15:42:19

When I was a singleton a few years back I used to find it strange that some people on internet dating profiles would put that they weren't interested in members of their own race.

Lavidaenrosa Thu 22-Aug-13 16:27:15

You like what you like.

I like men with black curly hair. The only boyfriend with black curly hair became my DH. But not because of his black hair. Keep your options open OP.

Lavidaenrosa Thu 22-Aug-13 16:29:38

mixed race is the prettiest ever Not true. There is beauty in every 'race'.

Lweji Thu 22-Aug-13 16:45:05

How about Bangladesh and Japan? wink
Thailand, Vietnam, just to name a few.

It would have made more sense to say Indian (as in Indian subcontinent) than Pakistani (although there are at least two genetically distinct groups in India - "Reconstructing Indian population history. Nature. 2009 ), and totally unreasonable to have meant all Asian, as the countries you mentioned have quite distinct types.

Anyway, take note in future.

EstelleGetty Thu 22-Aug-13 16:45:35

Absolutely, Lavidaenrosa, but I found that post offensive mainly because it suggested that all mixed race people are somehow the same.

Lavidaenrosa Thu 22-Aug-13 17:01:37

Estelle I think it's a clumsy attempt to sound/be nice about someone who is mixed race.

And there are so many mixed race, I believe the main definition is someone with a black and white ancestry but to me means any kind of 'mix'.

Southamericans are almost all mixed race, according to me.

Jewelledkaleidoscope Thu 22-Aug-13 18:42:32

Um... latara and world citizen , I think you may know each other grin

TheOneAndOnlyFell Thu 22-Aug-13 18:46:45

I don't think it is racist to say that you are generally unattracted to them, no, but I do think it is blinkered and small minded to say something like 'I could never be attracted to a Pakistani (or insert ethnicity of choice) man.'

You haven't met them all yet - you don't know. grin

Jewelledkaleidoscope Thu 22-Aug-13 18:47:33

Oh dear, apologies, read that all wrong backwards, ignore me

Moche Thu 22-Aug-13 20:45:11

Just google 'green eyed Pakistani' (& look at images) & see the diversity - for those who assume all Pakistanis are the same.

[samandi - wrote in hurry so unclear sentence construction: meant Sufism is more Buddhist in outlook (than many other types of Islam). Fully aware 1000 ish years later. Also origin of Buddhism is contentested: early evidence in N Pakistan. ]

dysfunctionallynormal Sun 01-Sep-13 04:01:25

Ur not racist lol! You can't force yourself to be attracted to people. I'm not attracted to asian men (and i'm asian myself!). I've never been attracted to or fancied afro caribb.men,or chinese either. That doesn't make me racist,just means that chemistry has never been there even when faced with an obv gorgeous man. I wouldn't say Never but i think it is highly unlikely that i ever will.

EmmelineGoulden Sun 01-Sep-13 07:30:14

I think it's hard to accept that we pretty much all internalize racist attitudes despite consiciously believing racism is wrong. But growing up in a racist society, it is practically impossible not to have internalized some of the racist value system. People can't be expected to sleep with people they aren't attracted to, but that doesn't mean some of the reason for that attraction or lack off isn't due to racist socialization.

Project Implicit, though obviously limited, is an interesting exercise in seeing to what extent you hold some attitudes without realizing it.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html - for computers with a keyboard
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/agg/blindspot/tablet.htm - for tablets

EmmelineGoulden Sun 01-Sep-13 07:31:37

Oh sorry. Didn't realize this thread had been dead a week+.

dysfunctionallynormal Mon 02-Sep-13 20:48:14

lol! sorry - just me browsing. thanks for the links tho, food for thought!

MyBaby1day Tue 03-Sep-13 02:01:37

It's not racist in itself no, as long as you aren't saying offensive things about them as people. I am also not attracted to black and Pakistani men. I usually go for white guys but as feminine rightly said, you never know who may be waiting around that corner, I am now smitten with a tanned Romanian man!. But no, YANBU.

MyBaby1day Tue 03-Sep-13 02:02:19

Feminine

DropYourSword Tue 03-Sep-13 04:26:47

I don't think so. I'd happily say I'm not attracted to other women but it doesn't make me sexist!

SubliminalMassaging Tue 03-Sep-13 06:03:34

That test was fascinating. It told me I had a 'slight' preference for European children compared to African-American, which I would say did not surprise me, as I am white and not racist, or at least not consciously so, but I accept that everyone probably has some degree of latent racism.

Blueberryveryberry Sat 07-Sep-13 19:35:32

Test said I have a moderate automatic preference for fat people.And I am not fat (not that it matters).

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now