To think Katie Hopkins has officially lost the plot and special needs children do have genuine medical disorders

(367 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

Arnie123 Tue 20-Aug-13 15:08:12

I know she is just a gobby professional troll but this time she has gone way too far. So special needs don't exist and it is just crap parenting? Unbelievable

Naebother Tue 20-Aug-13 15:11:50

She is rentagob and spouts shite.
Why waste valuable moments of your life caring what she says?

Arnie123 Tue 20-Aug-13 15:14:38

I wonder if she regards narcissistic personality disorder as a real medical complaint as she appears to be suffering from it

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 15:17:57

Katie Hopkins needs to be Px some Vagisil because she is an irritating cunt. And that would be a most necessary medication.

ouryve Tue 20-Aug-13 15:19:03

YANBU. It takes less than 7 seconds to diagnose craniorectal inversion, though. Specially in really obvious cases, like hers.

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 15:19:11

The most obnoxious woman ever ... still haven't got over of those pictures of her standing butt naked in a public place near work shagging someone's husband.

Just to make it clear, that as a rule I disregard anything that Katie Hopkins says and would normally disagree with her on principle. Having said that, I think she makes valid points in her blog on this. No-where does she say that "special needs don't exist and it is just crap parenting", she suggests that " for some children a lack of exercise, poor diet and absence of parental control is also an issue". Note the important use of the word some. I would agree with this. In my experience there are children who have been diagnosed with undoubted ADHD and other conditions that affect the behaviour. On the other hand, there are children who have been diagnosed with various conditions, such as ADHD, when it is much less certain how much of the behaviour is down to bad parenting and red bull. (yes, it happens, despite what we would like to believe)

SaucyJack Tue 20-Aug-13 15:22:01

Don't make that a clickable link.

If her articles keep generating readership, then people wiill keep paying her to spout ignorant bile.

Just ignore.

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 15:23:05

Btw, I am sure that there are a range of provisional diagnoses I could think of for her given that she feels so confident about doling them out

WorraLiberty Tue 20-Aug-13 15:23:20

I wonder if she regards narcissistic personality disorder as a real medical complaint as she appears to be suffering from it

And you're feeding her attention seeking, just as so many people on the internet do.

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 15:24:09

Yes, I bet the children whom she speaks of are called Tyler and Chardonnay.

SamuelAndOscarsMummy Tue 20-Aug-13 15:26:52

I hate this woman but in a way I kind of agree with this. No way do I think that special needs do not exist at all or that any child who special needs has crap parents however I DO think people are sometimes too quick to shove a diagnosis of ADHD or mild autism on a child who isn't doing what he or she is supposed to do in terms of behaviour or development. Severe autism isn't too hard to diagnose and I don't think that is what Katie is referring to. It's not necessarily even down to bad or lazy parenting that a child doesn't behave, some are just more energetic and less able to concentrate than others, I always put it down to them being kids, diagnosing mild ADHD or mild autism and therefore sticking a label on the child could in my opinion do more harm than good. I do think we hear about it way more often nowadays, I remember reading an article in a magazine about autism a few years ago when it was barely heard of. I also think a lot more people will agree with this than who care to admit it due to fear of offending people or being non-PC.

SaucyJack Tue 20-Aug-13 15:30:12

By the way, "jokingly" labelling someone as having a mental health problem just because they've said something you don't like isn't particularly disability friendly either......

candycoatedwaterdrops Tue 20-Aug-13 15:30:40

mignonette grin

Mintyy Tue 20-Aug-13 15:32:28


We need to stop talking about her.

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 15:32:48

She should forever be referred to as 'Thrush' on MN until that irritating cunt is cured.

Tiredemma Tue 20-Aug-13 15:33:24
LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 15:34:35

Autism wasn't really 'barely heard of' a few years ago, though.

I'm reading a novel published in 1978 which mentions casually, in passing, someone's autistic child. Clearly at that time, it was quite well-known enough for a writer to judge that her audience would mostly know what the word meant and have a fair sense of what it implied for a child's needs.

I mention this because I think there is quite a lot of mythologising about how recently we've known about certain diagnoses.

KH is a total twit and a troll, but I think it's worrying how much people think labels are inherently bad. I don't think they are, and I think although we've got a lot better at giving children proper help when they need it, there really hasn't been a massive explosion in diagnosing disorders in children who don't have them. IMO.

thornrose Tue 20-Aug-13 15:34:46

Samuel - however I DO think people are sometimes too quick to shove a diagnosis of ADHD or mild autism....

Who are the people you are referring to? Do you mean the Psychiatrists and health care professionals who make the diagnosis?

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 15:35:22

Could MN have her in for a webchat ... she would be too cowardly to put herself forward. If you are reading this thread, Hopkins, I dare you to volunteer yourself and prove you have some substance or credibility that is not reliant upon putting down fat/disabled/poor/working class people.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 15:36:01

My understanding was it takes fucking ages to get a diagnosis of anything much these days, too.

I know that's not quite what you mean by 'quick', but still.

thornrose Tue 20-Aug-13 15:37:36

Oh no, sorry, I need to walk away, this is not how I want to spend my afternoon. Don't bother answering that.

Arnie123 Tue 20-Aug-13 15:39:28

Hopkins loathes Mumsnet and uses every opportunity to slag us off. Would love a web chat please mnhq get on to it!

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 15:40:52

Oh, no, I'm really sorry - I didn't mean you!

I only meant, it's a bit sad when people talk as if diagnoses can be got quickly, because of course people can struggle on for a long time without a diagnosis.

I really wasn't having a go in the least.

LadyBryan Tue 20-Aug-13 15:40:55

She is just dull.

Imagine being so insecure that she has to spout such utter tosh to feel good about herself.

Do run along Katie, there's a dear

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 15:43:17

Somebody who has failed at everything she has done - She lacks moral fibre and intellectual vigour. Should be an interesting 'chat'.

Dare you, Thrush.

celticclan Tue 20-Aug-13 15:49:21

She was spouting some nonsense about how she won't employ overweight people the other day. On the comments section someone noted that her consultancy business made a loss of £11k last year so talk of her employing someone is strictly wishful thinking on her part.

thornrose Tue 20-Aug-13 15:50:40

I was quoting Samuel who seems to thinks the diagnosis is quick, but I didn't make it very clear.

I'm off because this thread might actually make my head explode grin

ouryve Tue 20-Aug-13 15:50:41

DS1's ADHD diagnosis took more than 7 MONTHS, btw - not counting the time spent on a waiting list. It's not a diagnosis that was just doled out.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 15:55:25

Head exploding is best avoided.

Glad it was that. grin

Arnie123 Tue 20-Aug-13 15:56:08

She claims to be worth £0.9 million. Not likely with a business making a loss. Perhaps she is taking on a new role as professional troll. I bet she gets paid a few thousands for each piece of tripe she comes out with. I am going to tweet her and ask her for the web chat

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 15:59:43

Simple equation for calculating the success of Thrush (her new name).

Vile nonsense spouted for money = her consultancy business going down the toilet. As I said, she has failed at everything she has done.

KhloeKardashian Tue 20-Aug-13 16:03:46

I do not get the Woman's motives at all.

As has been said already, I can't take someone seriously who has sex in the open with someone else's husband.

SamuelAndOscarsMummy Tue 20-Aug-13 16:04:31

Hmmm no not really, not health professionals who go through the proper process of diagnoses. More parents who don't go to the doctor and just say 'I think they have ADHD' but don't get it followed up. Or health professionals who state that the child has mild this or that but don't think it is severe enough to need medication or treatment.

My child has loads of energy which he finds hard to express sometimes as we only live in a little flat and can't go to the park etc when it is raining therefore can get naughty as he doesn't want to sit quietly and play he wants to run around. People have jokingly mentioned ADHD but I take offence to that to be honest. He's just a normal, happy, excitable little boy AND he's only 2! Children I have met who have ADHD often say things like 'I don't want to be naughty but I can't help it' and my heart really goes out to them, no child wants to be told off and punished all the time. I've heard little shitty brats in the park shove another child over in the park before and say 'I have ADHD so I can hit you and you can't hit me back' or the mother of an autistic child claim that because her son is autistic he doesn't need to share the toys and she doesn't need to discipline him. This is where I feel that labels are negative.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 20-Aug-13 16:09:48

I would be very interested to know what 'mild autism' is.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 16:16:00

Samuel can I direct you here before you post anymore tripe misconceptions and embarrass yourself further.

I know a lady that has pushed and pushed to have her son diagnosed with Autism. He is a nightmare at home, apparently developmentally delayed and is violent.

However, I know her son well through working at his nursery and being his keyworker for years.
There is nothing out of the ordinary with his development or behavior. He uses the toilet, speaks well and plays with others.
His nursery book confirms this as have the paediatrician, HV and speech therapist.
She is still asking for more opinions (she has new paediatrician now) because she refuses to believe that his behavior is down to her parenting. She baby talks to him, puts him pull ups (he starts school in Sep but has been toilet trained in nursery since 2), dresses him, feeds him. The list is endless. So he behaves like a 2 year old around her.

He could end up with a devastating diagnosis and there is nothing wrong with him! angry
Not a helpful comment but I cannot help but feel angry about it.

zatyaballerina Tue 20-Aug-13 16:26:18

Some children are born with special needs, nobody is disputing that, her point was about those who are badly parented to the point where they fail to develop properly as a result.

Many kids are fed crap and that does affect them, some more seriously than others. Others are not spoken to, not read to, not disciplined, neglected, abused, grow up in a very stressful environment etc,.. and all of those kids will have special needs to some extent. It does them an injustice to pretend that they don't exist or their issues aren't caused by their home environment, they'll never get the help they need if the root is ignored.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 16:31:08

'I've heard little shitty brats in the park shove another child over in the park before and say 'I have ADHD so I can hit you and you can't hit me back' or the mother of an autistic child claim that because her son is autistic he doesn't need to share the toys and she doesn't need to discipline him. This is where I feel that labels are negative.'

Forgive me, but isn't there a certain irony in labelling these children 'little shitty brats', then.

Obviously it's not ideal if a child uses a crap excuse for hitting. But that's not the label, it's the child being a child. And an annoying one. It's not like his doctor or teachers are going to be saying 'now, little Jimmy, do feel free to hit everyone if you so choose, and we'll ensure no-one hits you back', is it?

I find it tricky to believe what you describe with the mother of an autistic child is the full story. Is it possible she was just knackered and thought you might have a moment of empathy and let him play with the toy?

Sanctimummy Tue 20-Aug-13 16:31:14

I like the new trend of referring to her as Thrush from now on.

Totally sticking to that. Forever grin

thornrose Tue 20-Aug-13 16:33:41

Youcanring a diagnosis will not be given just based on the mother's word though!

I filled in endless questionnaires, talked about my child from birth onwards in great detail. An Ed Psych evaluated her, the SENCO, teachers and TA's had input.

Finally two professionals assessed my dd and I had to sit back in silence while they carried out a range of tests. She was then diagnosed with Aspergers.

Don't worry it's highly unlikely the child you refer to will get a "devastating diagnosis" based on the mum's say so!

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 16:36:16

She is rentagob and spouts shite
Why waste valuable moments of your life caring what she says?

Because she is given a platform to spout said shite and her views need challenging.

Because she is not alone in her thick ill educated views as proved by several posts on this thread.

Yes, Id also like to hear what 'mild' autism is.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 16:38:43

Youcanringmybell with respect you may be a nursery keyworker but you are in no position to determine whether or not a child has autism. If the child receives a diagnosis it will be after a proper assessment by a team of health and education professionals. It will not be as a result of the mother pushing for assessment.
Maybe you would like to cast your eyes over the This is my child campaign as it looks like you need to learn a few things and it is highly unprofessional to be discussing a child and their parent on a forum oh I forgot you are a nursery keyworker

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 16:39:15

Loving the idea that mere parental obsessive persistence will get a 'devastating' diagnosis!

Yeah right.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 16:43:01

Yes Amber my two got diagnoses of moderate and severe autism really easily I wonder what I'd have got for diagnoses if I had pushed? Leprechaun or pixie perhaps grin

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 16:45:35

Ffs! Those of you who think that kids with "mild" autism or ADHD can get a diagnosis when there's nothing really that wrong are about as stupid as they come.

Stop posting that shite because you having got a clue.

Here just for your info.

1. Parents don't decide to refer to developmental teams, TEACHERS and GP's do. It takes around 5 visits to GP and then concerns raised by HCP such as HV and teachers/nursery staff before the ball gets rolling.

2. Once you've been referred you wait around 6 months for the appointment. All the while your kid is struggling in school and having issues that no one understands because it just LOOKS like they're being "naughty" that's the trouble you see, a lot of the SYMPTOMS if these conditions look exactly like what we consider socially to be NAUGHTY.

3. You are then seen repeatedly over 6 months or longer by various specialist HCP including developmental paeds, child psychologists, SALT and Occupational Therapists. Advice is sought from SENCOs and teachers at the child's school/nursery.

4. ALL of them have to agree that your child has this condition or you are sent away and told to come back in a year or so if you've still got concerns.

It's near IMPOSSIBLE to get a diagnosis if the condition is not there. So go away and find out a bit more about it before bleating on here that that utter twat has got a point blah blah blah.


JakeBullet Tue 20-Aug-13 16:58:24

What sparkly has just said. ..and so well.

It took years for my son to be diagnosed. ..everyone knew from age 3 that his development was not usual. Personally it didn't matter to me as he was MY son and I loved him quirks and all.

Nursery and then schools found that he struggled with noises, various situations and in being able to sit for a story (because sitting cross legged on the floor when you are dyspraxic is hard).

The SCHOOL referred him to the school nurse who teferred him to a developmental paediatrician. My only input was to agree the assessment to be done and allow sccess to previous assessments and reports.

Finally a paediatrician diagnosed ASD. As the paediatrician has had many years of training, plus study and additional training then specialised study in recognising ASD I value her opinion over that of KH who is basically a failed game show contestant. ....her opinions tell me WHY she is a failed game show contestant. Silly, opinionated, shallow and thick.

Pagwatch Tue 20-Aug-13 17:08:50
FanjoForTheMammaries Tue 20-Aug-13 17:09:02

Not going to read this thread.

Basically anyone who agrees with Katie Hopkins is sadly ignorant and should learn about ADHD and autism and also look at Mumsnet's new campaign.


AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 17:10:50


Pixie sounds good...I should have pushed sad grin

mrsjay Tue 20-Aug-13 17:14:26

what is she saying now nobody takes her seriously not one person cares what she says ,anymore i am hoping she will vanish soon as more and more people and tv stations realise

I saw her 4 weddings the other day god her dress was horrible and it was down the farm with the other celebs wading in cow pats apparently it was an AUTHENTIC wedding ok then katie

Andro Tue 20-Aug-13 17:14:57

ouryve - craniorectal screen is now wearing my coffee!

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 17:18:39

Might be an authentic wedding but she was also an authentic cheat who cannot hold a marriage together. Nor army training, nor employment, nor The Apprentice. Failure.

dinosaursarebisexual Tue 20-Aug-13 17:22:13

Thrush will always be last to have her incontinence pants changed in the nursing home and her visitors page will be blank.

FanjoForTheMammaries Tue 20-Aug-13 17:24:26

"I've heard little shitty brats in the park shove another child over in the park before and say 'I have ADHD so I can hit you and you can't hit me back' or the mother of an autistic child claim that because her son is autistic he doesn't need to share the toys and she doesn't need to discipline him"

That is so an example of believing the myth

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 17:24:32

Dino grin.

We all need to mess up her google profile by using that name from now on.

Cakebaker35 Tue 20-Aug-13 17:25:45

I vote for no more threads about this idiot woman, she is just getting far too much air time.

Refuse to click on the KH link but this thread clearly illustrates why MN are doing the THIS IS MY CHILD campaign.

Some of the views on here are so ignorant! angry

munchkinmaster Tue 20-Aug-13 17:39:15

I have to say I'm a child psychologist and I have come across a good few kids with some kind of pseudo diagnosis which is really harmful. I have also met families such as the one described by thier nursery worker above where it is so hard to disentangle parenting from development. Some parents find it so hard to accept that thier child does not have a developmental diagnosis they spend years doctor shopping to the point that it becomes a child protection concern. So it may not be the majority but it does happen.

Oblomov Tue 20-Aug-13 17:41:52

The posts by Samuel and youcanringmybell, make my heart weep.
My son behaves well at school. Not at home? So you think it was just my bad parenting? But it took me 2 years to get a diagnosis of Aspergers. Do you think they give them out willy nilly? Aspergers is classic for presenting differently at home and at school. Is a recognised fact.

Oblomov Tue 20-Aug-13 17:41:52

The posts by Samuel and youcanringmybell, make my heart weep.
My son behaves well at school. Not at home? So you think it was just my bad parenting? But it took me 2 years to get a diagnosis of Aspergers. Do you think they give them out willy nilly? Aspergers is classic for presenting differently at home and at school. Is a recognised fact.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 17:48:38

Well said, pag.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 17:50:17

You're a child psychologist but you can't spell their? Heaven help us!

I know nothing of your situation Oblomov so how could I make any judgement on you thanks

However, this mother is renowned for trying to make something out of nothing. He is a lovely normal little boy. Her immediate presence brings about a change in the little boy that is directly linked to the way she treats him.
Of course this situation has no bearing on you, your child or your parenting.

JakeBullet Tue 20-Aug-13 17:54:49

It may well happen munch but the vast majority of us have NOT "spent years doctor shopping". We saw ONE or maybe TWO doctors...often with the first referring to the second based upon school assessments, the development history and the on going issues.

That was MY history with paediatricians...I saw one who referred to another who gave the diagnosis based upon all the reports and assessments plus two hours in my DS's company assessing him with a specialist speech and language therapist.

I have no reason to doubt her diagnosis and in fact my son is now doing very well with the right support in place.

Women like KH need to keep their mouths shut and their eyes and ears open. She is ignorant and worse still is being given a platform to air that ignorance. I hate her and coin a delicate phrase.....wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire. Hateful bloody woman.

The vast majority of children that have a diagnosis are completely and thoroughly assessed and have parents that have done nothing but good for their children.
Katie Hopkins is out of order to make people think that it is more commonplace than it is. I agree and do not wish to belittle anyone that has has struggled to get their children the support they deserve.

candycoatedwaterdrops Tue 20-Aug-13 17:59:43

munchkinmaster I could well believe that some parents do "doctor shop" in America but over here, it is famously difficult to get a diagnosis.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 18:00:30

Just as we don't assume that the majority of bruises on children are caused by parental abuse nor should we assume that abuse by "doctor shopping" is the usual situation with children with SN.

munchkinmaster Tue 20-Aug-13 18:10:03

I didn't say it was the majority, just that it does happen.

I may have a slightly biased view as these complex patients are more likely to see me and are more likely to demand my time and energy.

You'd also be amazed how much dr shopping is possible in the nhs and the way services can played against one another.

Your child abuse bruising analogy is a good one. Yes most bruises are just bruises but we need to be very aware that sometimes they are not as the consequences of not probing further in that instance are enormous.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 18:12:28

Funnily enough the only people I know who have been sent for a second opinion because our diagnostic team offer this and refer onto Elizabeth Newson, GOSH and Alder Hey have all received diagnoses.
Munchkin don't tell me you work for CAMHS don't you?

Crocky Tue 20-Aug-13 18:13:27

I keep typing and deleting stuff because I am struggling to clearly express my feelings. But why would a diagnosis be devastating?

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 18:20:00

Crocky a diagnosis is often devastating because it suddenly becomes reality that your child really does have difficulties. I knew ds had autism, the paed talked at his first appointment of confirming his thoughts (because he presented as classic autism) but the day that you get written confirmation that your child probably won't gain normal speech, won't live independently and the challenging behaviour is likely always to be a huge difficulty then that's the day the hope that you are imagining it, that it's not that bad goes out of the window and it's the start of your new reality.

munchkinmaster Tue 20-Aug-13 18:22:31

Used to work in CAMHS but do something a bit more specialist now.

I'm not even really talking about second opinions as that's the system which works. It's people you say no to and then find they have told school a different story or are now onto getting the educational psychologist onside (as if we don't talk to one another).

I once discharged a child to find they had gone back to the gp seeking a new assessment for much the same thing the next week which was also sent to me.

soverylucky Tue 20-Aug-13 18:27:46

Think of the most ridiculous thing ever - like weekly executions of old people to help the economy by reducing the pensions bill. Write an article on it and sell it because it is sure to cause a debate. That is what KH does. She doesn't really believe half of what she says but it is the only way she knows how to earn a living.

Ignore her!

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 18:31:11

It wasn't for me tbh. I was delighted the day we received formal diagnosis. My devastation was experienced over the period of two years that it took to actually get the diagnosis. I used to stay up all night frantically googling for proof that ds was FINE! I don't think anyone can comprehend that feeling of utter fear when someone tells you that your child may be autistic. Biggest shock of my life. It's because no one really knows that much about it, complete ignorance, so it feels like the worst thing in the world, which of course it isn't at all.

Thing is you've got all that going on, then you're got everyone close to you in complete denial and hating YOU for forcing them to face that something is going on with their perfect darling grandchild/nephew etc.

Then you've got the general day to day assumptions that your child's "naughtiness" is caused by YOUR parenting. Of course your asking yourself if that's the case too.

In a way it's harder NOT to get the diagnosis because then everyone's suspicions that its just bad behaviour and you're a bad parent are confirmed and your poor child doesn't get any of the help and therapies they need.

Autism itself is often not the problem especially when it's high functioning. It's the ignorance and attacks from others who don't understand that cause the pain and devastation.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 18:32:03

You're not your

Rosesarebeautiful Tue 20-Aug-13 18:36:18

I appreciate that's not what the original article is about - just trying to back up some of the views put forward

JakeBullet Tue 20-Aug-13 18:43:37

I felt like I had been hit by a brick when we got DS's diagnosis sad. We knew DS had significant difficulties and there had been lots of assessments and murmurings about social communication issues...the actual diagnosis was a shock though.

BlingBang Tue 20-Aug-13 18:47:37

Being silly and obnoxious is her career and she probably gets paid well for it - especially with this kind of advertising.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 18:52:46

It broke my heart, even though the paed was mentioning autism at two his diagnosis six months later hit me for six. It was a bleak diagnosis and although ds has made huge steps forward he is still very disabled by the autism sad
Dd was referred for assessment at eighteen months, we got the diagnosis six months later and I took it in my stride, shrugged it off in fact. It wasn't until she fell apart in y1 because of a bitch of a teacher that it hit me.
I love them dearly and they are my pride and joy but for me autism isn't a slight variation on normal it's a disability that impinges on every aspect of their lives and our family's life.

Crocky Tue 20-Aug-13 18:53:14

Insanity my son has a diagnosis. For me it was a relief to know I wasn't imagining it.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 18:58:43

They told me at nursery that they were going to get a Developmental Paediatrician to take a look at ds. I knew he wasn't the same as other kids his age. She did and when I came to pick him up told me she thought he had a social communication disorder. Autism was not mentioned. I thought "oh ok better google that". Went home googled and page after page of "autism" came up. THAT was my hit by a brick moment. As daft as it sounds I had not had a clue. I knew it was though as soon as I read it. He ticked every box. The diagnosis was just a formality. I do remember during the process though, when being called into school for the 10th time in a week (i used to go in during the day to help calm him) just putting my head down on the desk and crying, crying, crying, the side of my face was in a pool of tears and I just never wanted to have to lift it up again.

ShakeAndVac Tue 20-Aug-13 19:00:23

Don't. Feed. The. Troll.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 19:01:10

My dd has it as well insanity I am actually surprised at how little I felt about it this time. There was none of the grief, it just was how it was. We have a diagnosis for her now and she presents very differently to ds. It was very mechanical or me this time, I knew exactly what needed to be done and that made it much easier. A lot of the problems with ds were not knowing the steps to take to diagnosis and who I should be talking to and what questions I should be asking.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 19:02:33

I'm not even really talking about second opinions as that's the system which works. It's people you say no to and then find they have told school a different story or are now onto getting the educational psychologist onside (as if we don't talk to one another).

I once discharged a child to find they had gone back to the gp seeking a new assessment for much the same thing the next week which was also sent to me.

But Munchkin I wouldn't see that as a parent seeking a diagnosis I would see it as a parent with concerns about their child.I would say that rather than the GP referring back to you you should have referred them to a specialist diagnostic service for a second opinion.
I might be biased but CAMHS in our area is a crock of shit tbh. Thankfully I only ever saw the man at the top (because our paed referred direct because even he thought the ones below were a crock of shit too) to support my demand for an independent specialist school. Of course once there ds gets support from their psychologist/ OT and SALT so won't have to contemplate that nonsense thankfully

PenelopePipPop Tue 20-Aug-13 19:04:28

Munchkinmaster with respect whilst I'm sure what you describe is accurate it isn't strictly relevant. The KH piece attributes the rapid rise in the prescription of medication for ADHD in England and Wales and a rise in the rates of ASD diagnoses in North America to people seeking 'quick' fixes rather than addressing the root causes of the problems facing children. She also claims, without attribution, that most ADHD diagnoses are made in under 7 minutes, suggesting that she thinks it takes one to know one.

I think KH is wrong and that diagnosing developmental disabilities is a rather more considered process than she realises. But even if she were right the problem could not result from parents doctor shopping in the way you describe. It could only happen because parents and professionals were complicit in seeking these so called quick fixes.

tabulahrasa Tue 20-Aug-13 19:07:57

I was actually happy when my DS was diagnosed with AS...but that's because of how long it took, he'd by that point been having SLT for 11 years, OT for 7 years and assessed every 6 months or so for 6 years, his school were adamant he was autistic, I was pretty sure he was and every 6 months the specialist said that while he was showing traits and met most of the diagnostic criteria because of his speech, she wasn't willing to diagnose yet.

So all that time, the little autism specific support there is wasn't accessible to us, he struggled more and more through primary school and into secondary school, without a diagnosis of anything secondary school withdrew support until he had a complete meltdown and then they suddenly realized he wasn't coping and had to refer him to the mental health team (they're separate from autism diagnosis in my area), his self esteem was so low that expressing suicidal thoughts wasn't uncommon - because he only deals in absolutes, so you might have autism just wasn't relevant to him.

So to finally get a diagnosis of anything was just fantastic, he could go to a youth club for children with autism, we could actually properly discuss the fact that he wasn't just rubbish at things and unlikeable that it was that he was wired differently and there are other people in the same boat, I finally had something that would make his school take his difficulties seriously and access to things like the autism outreach team in school...

I understand that for someone who has a quick diagnostic process that it will be upsetting to have somebody officially tell you that your child has a disability, but for us the diagnosis wasn't devastating, the period where he was undiagnosed and completely floundering was.

ShakeAndVac Tue 20-Aug-13 19:09:22

Can't believe so many people get outraged and start threads on her witterings.
She comes out with the most provocative and emotional things she can to get a reaction - and guess what - everyone bites!
Ignore it, it might go away.

munchkinmaster Tue 20-Aug-13 19:09:27

Insanity - i take your point about the case. It was much more complicated than you could ever imagine but not appropriate to discuss here - shouldn't have mentioned it really.

wannaBe Tue 20-Aug-13 19:10:36

I can't bear Katie Hopkins - she is nothing more than a failed reality tv star who, like most other reality tv stars, is just not very nice.

Now, while I certainly don't agree with the idea that parents are purely seeking diagnoses in order to cover up their crap parenting, it does appear that diagnoses are on the increase, and I do think that we as a society need to be questioning why. Because IMO it's about more than just more resources/knowledge being available and children of the past generation having been let down due to lack of knowledge, more and more children are being diagnosed with Sn, and there has to be some reason why that is happening, in the same way that we need to be questioning why it is that allergies are on the increase.

Perhaps if we do start asking those kinds of questions we can prevent more children from needing a diagnosis in the first place iyswim.

There have been studies linking e.g. ADHD with diet and certain additives, there are certainly studies which make links between autism and certain gut issues with many autistic children needing to be gluten free for instance.

ADHD type behaviors certainly weren't prevalent when I was growing up, I certainly knew children with autistic trates so it's possible that was less diagnosed, but there is definitely an increase in these conditions, and if there's a cause for that then it dooes need too be looked and we doo need to start asking the questions not just blindilyaccepting that more children now have sen, we need too start looking at how we can prevent this happening in future generations...

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 19:10:39

Sparkly I was absolutely fine at dd's diagnosis, I was doing early intervention and was more concerned with getting on with that and getting her a statement (I knew what had worked for ds so just ploughed on) Four years after diagnosis a witch of a teacher caused dd to fall apart and I crumbled because that carefully constructed shell of ability I had built around her shattered and it hit me that I couldn't make her invincible.
Thankfully ds and dd are both in brilliant schools and they are thriving so life is sweet again.

JustinBsMum Tue 20-Aug-13 19:12:23

I cycled to primary school in the 1960s, a few miles each way, on some days I walked.

Really, it's not always bad parenting, it's lack of safe outdoor space for DCs.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 19:17:41

I know what you mean. Dd is doing fabulously at school, but she is just going into Year 2 and I know the structure and micro managing of Early Years is what is keeping her functioning well, as she moves further up the school I can see there will be problems and I do worry about that. The school is good so hopefully they will be approachable and proactive if and when it happens.

Ds on the other hand is being Home Educated because his schooling up till Year three was worse then anything you can imagine and ended with him being restrained hourly assaulted by a teacher and coming home covered in cuts and bruises from that restraint. I pulled him out and we haven't looked back. I would love to find a school that fits for him but I don't think it will ever happen so I make the best of it.

williaminajetfighter Tue 20-Aug-13 19:20:29

Agree with wannaBe.

The thing is with Katie Hopkins her views aren't unique and like the daily mail will represent the views of a contingent of people. That's what's so scary. On the other hand to be forewarned is to be forearmed and sometimes it's useful to know what others are thinking.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 19:21:24

Dd will be home schooled after next year because I won't watch her fall apart in secondary It will be something I had never planned but we will do our best. If I thought I'd win I'd have fought for independent specialist like ds has but I won't so will save the time and money and pull her out of the system instead.

Dawndonnaagain Tue 20-Aug-13 19:21:50

Severe autism isn't too hard to diagnose
Are you a doctor?
Thought not.

ComtesseDeFrouFrou Tue 20-Aug-13 19:25:18

Why are we still giving this woman the oxygen of publicity? I have stopped reading the Huffington Post because they persist in allowing her to peddle her ill-informed, reactionary nonsense.

LaGuardia Tue 20-Aug-13 19:28:52

I think she vocalises things other people are too scared to say imo. And she doesn't give a stuff whether people like her or not, which is admirable.

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 19:31:23

Katie, is that you?

Letticetheslug Tue 20-Aug-13 19:35:57

adhd and 'mild autism' are diagnosed by a paediatricain, I have supported parents who are going through the diagnosis period, many of them have had years of people "tutting" and branding them bad parents. The diagnoses are not 'shoved on'

mrsjay Tue 20-Aug-13 19:36:26

*laGuardia she says what she is paid to say nothing more she isnt admirable she is mean and nasty and tbh a joke and she needs to get a proper job if she wants to work in media, the snooty bitch routine is wearing thin

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 19:42:21

^Can't believe so many people get outraged and start threads on her witterings.
She comes out with the most provocative and emotional things she can to get a reaction - and guess what - everyone bites!
Ignore it, it might go away^

I get your point, but it reminds me a bit of 'sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me' except actually, they do hurt.

Why do people get outraged? because she is talking about our children and us.

ADHD type behaviors certainly weren't prevalent when I was growing up, I certainly knew children with autistic trates so it's possible that was less diagnosed, but there is definitely an increase in these conditions, and if there's a cause for that then it dooes need too be looked and we doo need to start asking the questions not just blindilyaccepting that more children now have sen, we need too start looking at how we can prevent this happening in future generations

Im nearly 40, there certainly were children who had ADHD when I was growing up, but they didn't tend to go to mainstream schools or last very long in them if they did, they were sent away to schools for 'maladjusted boys' and that sort of place.

That is actually one of the biggest cliches about you know! usually followed by 'we would have got a slap if we'd behaved like that'

My rule is: ignore everything that ignorant prat says.

I am doing a pretty good job currently.

Everyone else, please help me along the way?

Sparklysilversequins Tue 20-Aug-13 19:44:28

Not sure how you'd "prevent" it tbh. With more knowledge on spectrum disorders/conditions has come more diagnosis, personally I can only see that increasing.

What preventative measures do you suggest?

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 19:45:45

Have That is why i wanted to rechristen her 'Thrush'. It'd mess up the goggle profile and is a childishly amusing name for an irritating c**t.

Misspixietrix Tue 20-Aug-13 19:47:43

Doesn't Mumsnet/Mumsnetters have a ban against directing Internet Trafic towards à certain Daily Fail site? I propose doing the same to Hopkins Twitter Website Blog or whatever else she has decided to put her bollocks on that day.

Peachy Tue 20-Aug-13 20:00:15

Of course there will be a rise; there will be in many disabilities as less babies die at or before birth, and children and adults survive illnesses and injuries later in life.

Well the exception statistically seems to be Downs Syndrome. I am sure most people know why that is.

I have huge issues with Katie Hopkins as she gives fuel to the arguments of idiots like my BIL who argue that ASD and ADHD diagnoses and statements are obtained with a simple form from the council; why those same people won't listen to me when I have studied ASD at post grad level for five years now (part time) I am not sure.

ASD is largely an illness of physiological or genetic origin; we have a chromosome with a snapped and reattached short arm. Many children who have ADHD have visible brain differences after a high res MRI is performed, to the corpus callosum. ADHD and ASD seem to share a potential genetic origin in some people with allergies, immune deficiencies and SPLDs.

To obtain three diagnoses in our family, it took 2 years with eldest age 6; 3 years with next child aged 6 (both ages at diagnosis). DS4 has been watched and monitored for 3 years so far with a statement already in place and pretty obvious ASD yet still no diagnoses as they don't like to rush it in siblings.

I meet many, many children who need a diagnoses but do not have one. I have as yet only ever met one child whose diagnosis I doubt, and neither her education nor diagnosis was obtained within the state system. I meet even more children who need educational support but have been refused- and none within the state system given support that didn't need it.

I meet as many well behaved children with ASD as children with behavioural issues. Amongst my diagnosed duo I have one of each- a child who exists in his words to be kind, and one who describes himself as training to be evil (he's failing badly but certainly trying!).

And I completely abhor the idea of Ms Hopkins trying to tell me about ASD and diagnosis. As a mother, professional, researcher and someone in the diagnostic system herself. if she considers herself a specialist she can jolly well cough up ££££££££ and years studying like the rest of us mere mortals. The other route to truly understanding the system is to foster or adopt a child with SN, but I would hope Social Services would never permit that.

Peachy Tue 20-Aug-13 20:01:21

(I should add live with ASD but of course my point is in part that you cannot just acquire it, IYSWIM). Those living with it are also qualifiedm, naturally.

Peachy Tue 20-Aug-13 20:03:45

As for the devastatng diagnosis- it's so individual.

I knew that they were coming, and smiled when I received them as I felt it was the start of solutions- then went home and howled in pain.

You just feel how you do, there are no right or wrong ways.

jumpingpillows Tue 20-Aug-13 20:09:19

bloody hell

pigletmania Tue 20-Aug-13 20:10:40

What crap has come out of her mouth now

wannaBe Tue 20-Aug-13 20:10:51

hings like environmental factors, diet, the prevalence of additives/preservatives/colourants (sp?) in foods which must almost certainly have an impact on our health and potentially, if ingested early enough/in enough quantity, on the development of a young child.

Examining the causes of disabilities and assessing whether the number of cases has increased over the years (and diagnoses have increased over the years) does not equal criticism of people's parenting skills - we need to separate the two.

Because if there are factors which are contributing to an increased number of children being born with certain disabilities then we need to examine this and examine whether there are steps which can be taken (within a wider society) to reduce the chances of this happening.

e.g. it has recently been claimed that the reason for the increase in nut allergies is linked to advice to not feed peanuts to babies too early or for women to have them during pregnancy, because babies who might be predisposed do not have the chance to be exposed early enough to develop a tolerance. The advice has now been reversed and the advice to pregnant women has been withdrawn. This does not mean that the women who avoided nuts during pregnancy and whose babies subsequently turned out to have peanut allergies are bad parents - it simply means that there are so many factors in our society these days that we simply cannot take account of them all at all times.

Why is it so wrong to suggest that these things need to be examined?

Caff2 Tue 20-Aug-13 20:15:26

Ahem. Those who have talked about "naughty" ... My DS1, diagnosis of ADHD, medicated when appropriate, has never had a detention (going into year 9 next month in a strict school), never been in trouble, is never rude, oppositional or defiant.

ADHD doesn't equal naughty. There's no "N" in there.

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 20:18:00

Good posts Peachy.

So diet causes these things Wannabe? not heard that one before <sarcasm>

My son was born autistic.

JulieMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 20-Aug-13 20:21:48


We can see that there's a fair few myths on here so we'd like to point you in the right direction of our This Is My Child campaign. We're working hard to try and dispel some of the common myths that people have towards children with special needs.


AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 20:21:52

Why is it so wrong to suggest that these things need to be examined?

There has been and is still much ongoing research into what causes these things.

Eating smarties etc is not a cause of autism/adhd.

A poor diet isn't good for anyone, but it isn't the cause of autism/adhd.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 20:22:33

My two were born with autism and funnily enough the three who weren't born with it, well I feed them too hmm

thornrose Tue 20-Aug-13 20:24:07

WannaBe your post automatically suggests that as a parent I've done something "wrong". Potentially while pregnant I caused my child to have autism?

I feel like defending my diet and telling you how healthy I ate and how I ate very few foods with additives etc etc, but I'm not going to.

candycoatedwaterdrops Tue 20-Aug-13 20:30:19

I don't buy the "it's their diet" crap. I volunteered in a day centre for adults with severe LD, the manager and I discussed the apparent 'rise' in the dx of autism. The awareness we have today is contributing as is newly found medical knowledge. Many of the other clients at the day centre were being diagnosed in their 40-50s.

JakeBullet Tue 20-Aug-13 20:31:08

when I was a child I played with the little boy over the road on many an occasion. He and I got on well and had many interests in common BUT...he also had terrifying meltdowns and was a difficult child. He was in a special school where he was sent to board and only came home for holidays when I played in the garden with him.....I was 7-9 years old when I knew him. With hindsight he probably had ASD or Aspergers and possibly ADHD and yet at the same age as me he had been screened out and was in a special school....of course those schools have been shut down now so of course people see more of autism and ADHD when they didn't before.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 20:44:21

I'm forty five and can think of four children who I went to school with who were most likely on the autism spectrum or who had ADHD as well. One went to the special school (that was always spoken of in hushed tones) in the first year at infants, two went to the naughty boys school which was a school those with behavioural difficulties towards the middle of junior school and the fourth I remember him being hit, punched and kicked by teachers and regularly caned by the HT.
It wasn't that these disorders didn't exist it was that they were hidden away as a source of shame or children were beaten regularly to "knock it out of them"
Nowadays our children aren't hidden away but attitudes still exist that these disorders are shameful or could be got rid of with more discipline.

FanjoForTheMammaries Tue 20-Aug-13 20:46:47

My friend's son doesn't eat.

At ALL (he is very healthy though)

He also has autism.

Blows the diet thing out of the water.

wannaBe Tue 20-Aug-13 20:49:32

"My son was born autistic." I was born blind. But that doesn't mean something didn't cause it, it's just that often we are unable to know what that is or to have prevented it even if we were able to know (e.g. in the case of genetic conditions).

nobody has said that smarties cause ADHD don't be so ridiculous. But it is a fact that our environment, and also our diets have changed dramatically over the years, and also that we are gradually beginning to understand the impact on the developing baby. e.g. it wasn't so long ago that women were told to eat lots of liver during pregnancy because it contains lots of iron, however liver also contains vitamin A which in large quantities can cause birth defects, therefore women are now told not to eat liver at all. We are told to take folic acid during pregnancy to prevent nural tube defects such as spina bifida. Why therefore is it so incomprehensible to suggest that other dietary changes could cause other conditions in an unborn baby? conditions which would not become apparent until that baby was older? IMO it has something to doo with the fact there still appears to be a gap between understanding and acceptance of physical disabilities vs learning disabilities (many of which are essentially invisible).

I wonder also whether there is an element of guilt involved - no-one wants to know that an environmental factor may have led to a child of theirs being born, or predisposed to a disability, when in actual fact it's not about blame - it's merely about future prevention - if possible - or at the very least about understanding.

Three years ago I discovered that my visual impairment was in fact misdiagnosed. As a baby I was diagnosed with cortical blindness, meaning that it was believed (because there was no evidence) that for some reason the messages were not being interpreted from my eyes to my brain, so the problem being with my brain not my eyes themselves. After developing glaucoma and discovering I had cateracts five years ago I went through the process of self referral to moorfields where I was told that actually it was my eyes that were damaged and that it was believed I had juvenile glaucomabut that it didn't present in the normal way.

To this day my mother refuses to believe this diagnosis, on the basis that if it had been discovered when I was a baby perhsaps something could have been done. I am certain that if a definitive diagnosis could be found (and even this one is not definitive, the actual reason for my blindness will never be known), it would lead to untold guilt and recrimination.

AugustMoon Tue 20-Aug-13 20:56:28

Children with ADHD have hyperactivity, impulsivity and inattention in all settings (school, home). They have poor working memory but often high iq, and struggle to 'switch off' resulting in sleeping problems. They take criticism badly, and are dissatisfied with their efforts. They are unable to filter out distractions and can have tactile sensitivity. Restless legs; hypermobile joints; general fidgeting (and fiddling with anything and everything) are more physiological symptoms.
It is a very real disorder. My DS1 has mild to moderate ADHD and it is common in my husbands family. My husband probably has it but is not diagnosed.
It took us over 3 years, several referrals to camhs, two educational psychologists and a fantastic SENCO before he was diagnosed.
My son is amazing by the way. He is not badly behaved, he is caring and polite, loves his family and is popular at school.
Just saying.

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 21:07:44

No, nothing to do with guilt. I now I could have done anything different, other than not procreate.

I believe my sons autism to be genetic, My dad probably has it, I probably have it. Can think of many more much older relatives who also would probably have got an austism diagnosis had they been of school age now. All of us grew up in very different times, with very different diets/evironmental factors etc. Common denominator was genetics.

nobody has said that smarties cause ADHD don't be so ridiculous

No, I know you didn't say smarties specifically, it was your comment about colouring and additives I was responding to. as I said, nothing I havent heard before.

Your previous post implied that things like ADHD are a new thing possibly caused by modern diet, I very much disagree with that as have several other posters. The only thing new about it is the terminology.

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 21:08:49

Sorry that now in my first line should have been a know.

DorisIsWaiting Tue 20-Aug-13 21:14:28

Does no one else think it's not just a little coincidental that KH who shall forever be known here as thrush happens to come out with this pile of tripe just as the MN campaign on this very issue gets going and puts herself forward for numerous debates --glorified KH PR sessions where she gets yet more publicity, but holding an oposing opinion.

She saw the opportunity to make more money on the back of a MN campaign.

She hates MN but by god I BET she reads MN!

LaVolcan Tue 20-Aug-13 21:20:12

it was your comment about colouring and additives I was responding to.
I had a friend with an autistic son who definitely reacted to some dairy food and the yellow colouring in orange squash. Cutting those out didn't mean that he was any less autistic but it did help his general health.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 21:21:13

The paed has said he is certain there is a genetic reason behind ds and dd's autism and for that reason he recommends genetic counselling before my others start a family. He believes in twenty years the defect on chromosome 15 (which he is certain my two have) will be identified.
Do I feel guilt? It's a difficult one I feel guilty that their lives are difficult because of the autism but I don't feel guilty because something I did or didn't do was the cause of their autism.

AmberLeaf Tue 20-Aug-13 21:25:31

Good point Doris!

mignonette Tue 20-Aug-13 22:08:30

Yes Doris. Thrush will be scouring sites like MN for any mention of her name which is now thrush unmentionable.

insanityscratching Tue 20-Aug-13 22:22:11

Thrush is so fitting a name it's inspired grin. I'm sure the next time I have the misfortune of spotting her on TV before I hastily switch it off it will make me smile.

Wuxiapian Tue 20-Aug-13 22:31:27

Awful, awful, attention-seeking woman.

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 23:04:10

of course she reads it, I don't doubt it which is why I think she should surface like an unflushable floater instead of hiding in the ubend!

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 23:05:29

Come on Thrushkins, we may respect you for it!

redandblacks Tue 20-Aug-13 23:08:54

"Bake off: Paul out of favour. Women see him and they see a snake in the grass."
She has the audacity to write that about Paul Hollywood on twitter despite her own Adulterous 1pm Butt-gate years before he even went there

justanuthermanicmumsday Tue 20-Aug-13 23:15:13

She doesn't have morals and she couldn't purchase class, beauty or intelligence. So here she is trying to make a quick buck taking any limelight she can to support her pathetic lifestyle. Isn't this the same lady who said she wouldn't let her kids play with children who had names like charmaine or Brandon, or Brooklyn . Yet she has a daughter named India apparently not geographical mmm go back to boarding school dear !

TylerHopkins Tue 20-Aug-13 23:33:19

She amuses me somewhat. Not all comments but most.

<tiptoes out of thread>

Misspixietrix Wed 21-Aug-13 01:29:54

She's already retweeted a comment saying Mumsnet have started to call her Thrush. See? Attention Seeking. I hope PR Stations invite proper qualified persons to comment on this subject and not some rentagob they can book and pay easy and cheaply ~

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 05:14:24

Sensitive post there Tyler

Chipstick10 Wed 21-Aug-13 07:56:17

That's not far enough to have the papers drop her like a hot potato. It will happen though wait and see.

Awomansworth Wed 21-Aug-13 08:17:59

Doris I said the exact same thing on another thread yesterday.

KH scours the news for the latest contentious issue... then jumps on the bandwagon upping the ante to gain more publicity.

She's nothing but a professional troll.

mignonette Wed 21-Aug-13 10:24:10

Yay! Good Morning Thrush.

LillyGoLightly Wed 21-Aug-13 11:35:40

This woman is what I would call a Media Whore, in the sense that does she really hold such extreme views on this issue, or other issues??

I think she likes creating a media frenzy around her by bringing up such topics and then taking an extreme view that she knows will be talked about. It keeps her in the headlines, its keeps he talked about....its the only way she can keep the focus on herself (very sad if you ask me) because it's not like she has a talent for anything else. Its just like those celebs who accidentally on purpose release sex tapes, and then end up making $$$ off the back of their release.

I wouldn't give this woman the time of day as think she is about as shallow as a puddle.

redandblacks Wed 21-Aug-13 11:43:37

As a journalist, she is well below par (even by gutter press standards). It is amazing how sex (how she originally became notorious) and bitchiness have opened up so many doors for her. I feel sorry for her children - they will not all turn out like her and in different ways will fall short of her hollow standards. Therapists on standby methinks.

MammaTJ Wed 21-Aug-13 11:51:34

I wish it did just take a 6 minute appointment for a diagnosis! Three appointments with the psychiatrist, two visits to the school from the OT, two appointments with the OT, one visit to the school for assesment by the ADHD specialist nurse.

No diagnosis yet, she is the youngest in her school year, we have been told to get re-referred in two years.

Wannabestepfordwife Wed 21-Aug-13 12:02:32

As much as I can't stand thrush or her opinions at least she's getting people talking about sn who aren't on mums net.

Her comments prove how much ignorance there still is and I have to admit I was totally ignorant about sn before I came on mums net so hopefully her ignorance may encourage other people to educate themselves

mignonette Wed 21-Aug-13 12:13:02


<<<taps nose>>>

toffeelolly Wed 21-Aug-13 12:17:47

What a horrible person she is, with a face to match. Wonder what this vile person would say if she had a child with sn.

mignonette Wed 21-Aug-13 12:22:42

TBH Thrush knows that she lacks physical beauty. However the fact that her personality reflects this seems to have escaped her.

'On the other hand, there are children who have been diagnosed with various conditions, such as ADHD, when it is much less certain how much of the behaviour is down to bad parenting and red bull. (yes, it happens, despite what we would like to believe'

Justfor Not in the UK it doesn't. What makes you more qualified to undx than the medical professionals who dx. It takes years of observations, assessments and much of this is focussed on the parents and environmental factors to be absolutely certain to rule those out before a dx is made.

However, if there are behaviours observable in children in the UK, do you really think it is helpful to blame the parents individually? Life is tough, getting tougher. Just keeping afloat is for many only possible with 2 incomes and long hours, for some in stressful or manual jobs that leave very little resources for parenting adequately imo.

To then vilify those families that find it hard to keep up suits those who benefit most from their struggles. The current government and their tabloid friends.

'people are sometimes too quick to shove a diagnosis of ADHD or mild autism on a child who isn't doing what he or she is supposed to do in terms of behaviour or development'

What people?

What should they do instead?

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 12:32:28

How dare they diagnose a developmental disorder! LOL

gordyslovesheep Wed 21-Aug-13 12:36:02

Thrush I wish the utter boswellox statements you made where true...I could learn to be a better parent and all our troubles would vanish.

Here in the real world its just not so simple ans I remain a bruised mum with holes in the walls and neighbours who probably judge the hell out of me

Would still rather have my life than yours as mine, though challenging, is also filled with love and laughter


'He could end up with a devastating diagnosis and there is nothing wrong with him!'

How? You said yourself that the HV, Paed, and other professionals have refused a diagnosis.

They really aren't given out like sweets. Quite the opposite.

However I can confirm that in our case we had to push to get a diagnosis. Not that anyone was denying that our son had classic autism, but because any diagnosis under 5 requires health to fund any intervention. It is cheaper to insist that a 'wait and see' approach is taken until they reach 5 and become the budgetary responsibility of 'Education'.

ubik Wed 21-Aug-13 12:39:45

I have a relative with aspergers who is in his thirties and was only diagnosed a few years ago.

He had a terrible time at school. Self medicated with drink and drugs.

Now he has a diagnosis, help and proper meds and is much happier.

Peachy Wed 21-Aug-13 13:13:30

Like Amber says there is so much research- heck I am doing some of it (into empathy).

Too many muggles just assume.

They can assume my arse.

'I wonder also whether there is an element of guilt involved - no-one wants to know that an environmental factor may have led to a child of theirs being born, or predisposed to a disability, when in actual fact it's not about blame - it's merely about future prevention - if possible - or at the very least about understanding. '

Hmm, I kinda get what you mean. We lived alongside the A38 and just by the M5 for years, different houses but always on that stretch. Perhaps that didn't help, it didn't cause a wider family issue but it may be why my boys are the ones who tipped into real disability.

There's no guilt there- it's where I was born and raised, and I left a decade ago. Likewise I craved tune when expecting ds3 and ate cans a day, before there were any concerns about mercury. Not my fault, but a possible factor in his severity.

I used to be feel guilt for the boy's needs, I now feel pride for how well they have come on.

Chattymummyhere Wed 21-Aug-13 13:30:35

I don't know how much has changed but I remember sitting in on a ADHD case... The assessor had a tick list and watched how the child reacted to things and also watched how they reacted while supposed to be sitting nicely while parent and assessor talked...

Child was then taken for height and weight measurements to keep a log as some ADHD medicine can affect growth..

Which also entitled said parent to dla payments at the time due to said child being diagnosed...

givemeaboost Wed 21-Aug-13 13:37:49

I don't think its easy to get a diagnosis at all, in fact Id say it was like climbing a bloody great mountain, seeing the top but getting pushed back to the bottom again before having a chance to get there.

I started vocalising concerns when ds1 was about 18months, started seeing paed when ds was 3 and have seen many including ed psych, camhs and various others over the last few years. the hospital saw him from 3, but refused to do anything till he was 7.

the only real "test" for sn he has had was a conners scale (what a piece of useless crap!) and the hospital took bloods, said he had a insignificant abnormality on his X chromosome, were going to test me and ds dad to see if we carried the abnormal one or wether it started in ds1.....those blood tests never happened so now at 10 we are still very much where we were 6 yrs ago.

Ive given up trying to get help tbh, blatently Im seen as a crap parent(ignoring the fact my other dcs are perfectly normal, happy compliant children with no ishoos whatsoever!) I just cant continue the fight with the professionals, I found it exhausting.
It doesn't bother me too much as I get a lot of respite during hols etc which is funded from his school, but If he ever did anything so serious it put my other children at risk though, he would be taking a swift trip to SS office and I will be leaving him there for them to deal with- Ive spent years trying to get him help with no avail so if it gets too bad, someone else will have to take on the fight because I wont.

I don't believe many parents actually have a diagnosis of things like adhd- a lot of the time I think its parents saying that's what there child has without any formal diagnosis, why someone would want to give their child a false made up diagnosis is beyond me, but Im guessing its a bit like Munchausen by proxy.

redandblacks Wed 21-Aug-13 13:39:25

but Thrush isn't likely to be around at this time ... she's probably out in the bushes shagging someone's husband.....again.

Chattymummyhere Wed 21-Aug-13 13:41:51

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 13:47:46


Holds out big sign saying 'Read Myth One in thr Mumsnet Campaign"

insanityscratching Wed 21-Aug-13 13:49:20

Who in their right mind thinks that diagnoses are given out like jelly babies? Think logically for just a minute, when ds was diagnosed at three the paediatrician was basically signing him up for a lifetime of services because it's not going to go away is it? So he had SALT and OT and psychologist involvement. He had specialist teachers and full time TA support, he had a place in a unit and now he is at an independent specialist school. He has cost health and education a significant sum and will continue to do so as he is going to need services for life.
Do you really believe that diagnoses are given out when not needed or aren't appropriate by paeditricians etc who know full well how much the support needed is going to cost.

gordyslovesheep Wed 21-Aug-13 13:49:21

Because 'those children' where in special schools where in mainstream ...more sen kids now go to mainstream schools

I wish diagnosis was as simple and easy to obtain as so many people seem to think

thornrose Wed 21-Aug-13 13:49:45

So chatty is that a nice little dig at "said" parents getting DLA? They get a false diagnosis of ADHD to get money?

Have you seen the forms you have to fill in?

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 13:51:09
FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 13:51:54 the other myths too before posting such nonsense on a thread about the campaign

thornrose Wed 21-Aug-13 13:52:17

Posted too soon, the DLA form is pages and pages long and requires EVIDENCE from professionals.

Oh I really am banging my head against a brick wall aren't I?

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 13:53:15

"Appointment is 6 months away but they say he is autistic"

Yes..your child suddenly becomes autistic only on day of the diagnosis appointment

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 13:56:49

Oops thankfully this is not the campaign thread..but hie thee to it forthwith chatty

givemeaboost Wed 21-Aug-13 14:05:15

fwiw, I understand what you're saying chatty! for others that have misunderstood what shes trying to say, read the last paragraph of my last post!

Chattymummyhere Wed 21-Aug-13 14:05:19


My point was they where already saying the child was 100% autistic when their appointment was 6months away!

As said before my experience of an ADHD appointment was a long time ago and that I did not know if it had changed but from what I saw at the time it was basically a tick sheet..

And yes most dla claims are genuine, however there are parents who do exploit the system via their children! My brothers fiances mum is one of those women! Her only child with no issues is the eldest of whom she cannot claim for, she was going too till she learnt the child would get the money not her! Then she kicked the oldest out of the house!

Most people on benefits/dla are honesta people but there are some who are not, I grew up in a family of exploiters I've seen it first hand so yes that maybe does cloud my view sometimes, I think anyone who exploits the system/their children for more money is disgusting but that does my mean it does not happen!

givemeaboost Wed 21-Aug-13 14:21:33

Also just wanted to add, the job centre may be partly to blame, when I had my back to work focussed interview I was told to apply for DLA despite not having any kind of formal diagnosis, I argued that I knew people with children with severe SN who had to fight to get it, but she was insistent I apply. I didn't, but can imagen some DLA has been paid where not strictly necessary in similar circumstances.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 14:24:41

Oh jeeze now the benefits bashing starts.

Read the campaign then if you disagree with it come back and we can talk.

Till then.

<blithely ignores>

Summerhasloaded Wed 21-Aug-13 14:27:02

MNHQ are you still watching this thread?

What hope is there for debunking myths elsewhere when those same myths are still held and presented here?

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 14:27:26

My point was they where already saying the child was 100% autistic when their appointment was 6months away!

So? do you think a child with autism only starts displaying symptoms on the day of diagnosis?

Me and all professionals involved were saying autism long before we got the piece of paper that made it official.

Her only child with no issues is the eldest of whom she cannot claim for, she was going too till she learnt the child would get the money not her! Then she kicked the oldest out of the house!

If he had no issues then her claim would have been unsuccessful.

You obviously think claiming DLA is easy.

tabulahrasa Wed 21-Aug-13 14:32:01

"Which also entitled said parent to dla payments at the time due to said child being diagnosed..."

I'm going to save this one day so I can just copy and paste it...

DLA is not awarded because of any diagnosis of anything, you can have no diagnosis and be awarded DLA, you can have a firm diagnosis of a serious condition and be turned down for it.

DLA is awarded because of care needs, that is if a child needs more personal care than is typical for its age, things like toileting, eating, washing and getting dressed independently.

These care needs are detailed by the parent, confirmed by another adult who knows the child, all health professionals involved in the child's care are contacted as is the child's educational placement (school or nursery) anything that a parent claims to use needs to be backed up by receipts and evidence. So that's paperwork proving care needs and at least four adults, two of them being professionals stating what the child's care needs are.

DLA by the DWP's own figures has one of the lowest fraud rates of any benefit at 1/2 a percent and is estimated by DWP's figures to be underclaimed by 20-40%, that is 20-40% of peopel who would be entitled to it are not receiving it.

So said parent being able to claim DLA doesn't work anything like - get a diagnosis, claim DLA, nor is it anything like easy to claim fraudulently. Unless you think schools and medical professionals are helping claim benefits fraudulently?

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 14:33:20

Also just wanted to add, the job centre may be partly to blame, when I had my back to work focussed interview I was told to apply for DLA despite not having any kind of formal diagnosis

Sounds like they were trying to help you and acknowledge that you faced extra difficulties.

Why is that wrong?

Also a claim for DLA isn't about the diagnosis, it is about the extra care needed due to the difficulties faced.

'I think she vocalises things other people are too scared to say imo'

Too scared to say for good reason. It is ill founded bigotry.

<Waiting with anticipation for her statement on immigrants and then, hopefully a racist comment to finally finish her off.>

Chattymummyhere Wed 21-Aug-13 14:49:32


I will read it however not all myths are truly myths, people do play the system... Considering the whole whip lash thread where some doctors will just sign it off, ok others don't but it all depends on who you see and how convincing you can be.

My views have come from personal experience so sorry if it does not fit in as it seems as part of the myth but its hardly a myth if people have seen in happen. I've seen some things about the back to work interviews with my own family that I cannot believe they still manage to be told they don't need to work yes they have "disabilitys" but nothing that would stop them working as admitted by them selfs, also playing the housing tax system.

People always have views that others don't agree with, that does not make me wrong nor does it make you wrong it just means we disagree.

I still stand by that for some people it is way too easy for a diagnoses that they will openly admit they lied about things to help get it as they had researched the illness. Again its sad for those who really do have problems but as long as anything exits with a loophole and easy to get info fraud will happen.

'I think she vocalises things other people are too scared to say imo'

Too scared to say for good reason. It is ill founded bigotry.

<Waiting with anticipation for her statement on immigrants and then, hopefully a racist comment to finally finish her off.>

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 14:52:24

It does make you wrong though, sorry

APPLYING for DLA isn't the same thing as getting it.

If someone else thinks you might be entitled to it, then well you might be and it is worth applying.

You'll have to be honest because of the sheer amount of evidence and checking up, but, if you get through all of that and they award it it is because you are ENTITLED to it, whether you believe so or not.

When I got mine, if was for my first born. I didn't know parenting could be any different and was getting on with it. In hindsight I was on the verge of a breakdown and the playworker I paid to work with my child and give me a break saved us.

tabulahrasa Wed 21-Aug-13 14:56:31

"I've seen some things about the back to work interviews with my own family that I cannot believe they still manage to be told they don't need to work yes they have "disabilitys" but nothing that would stop them working as admitted by them selfs, also playing the housing tax system."

Which has nothing to do with DLA because DLA is not an out of work benefit.

'however not all myths are truly myths, people do play the system'

The reason this is a ridiculous statement is because most people who are entitled to various things find it the fight of their lives trying to get access to them. For me it was the hardest job of my life.

The sheer weight of evidence isn't enough. When you have a crystal clear case for anything, you are still refused if the 'services' think they can get away with it. You will get people who believe the myths but got promoted into decision-making roles, probably on the basis that they were actually crap at their front-line job due to their belief of the myths, who make it virtually impossible to get much at all.

The system is also so complex and arbitrary that there can be no game plan.

'I still stand by that for some people it is way too easy for a diagnoses that they will openly admit they lied about things to help get it as they had researched the illness'

What people? What diagnosis are you talking about?

It doesn't matter how much you research cancer, you're not going to get a dx if you haven't got it. I think you're talking utter rubbish.

GPs cannot 'sign off' disabilities.

That isn't how it works. Your family are either lying to you or you have got confused.

redandblacks Wed 21-Aug-13 15:14:32

There have been a few threads about disabilities outside the usual disability forums and I have to say, I despair at the general level of ignorance and bigotry out there among those personally unaffected.

JakeBullet Wed 21-Aug-13 15:17:14

And yet chattymummy, the rate of fraud is very low. Yes some will take the piss but just as sn example 50% of DLA applications are declined. It is a very difficult benefit to much proof is required of the applicants day to dau challenges.

Thats just DLA but other benefits also seem hard to obtain. ..not least because this Govt have done such a good job of convincing people that those who require them are "scroungers".

Any system will be open to fraud but the solution is to tackle the fraudsters and not label or penalise the genuine which KH and people like her do.

Before my son was diagnosed he saw Occupational therapists, specialist speech and language therapists, physios and two paediatricians. Only one of those was qualified to diagnose the autism and that was the last paediatrician based upon the reports from every other person. It took nearly three years so was hardly a rushed thing.

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 15:30:15

Chattymummy you haven't got a clue.

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 15:30:59

Oh and have you read the This is my child page campaign yet?

I expect you'll think you know better though.

Chattymummyhere Wed 21-Aug-13 15:35:11

So because when I have witnessed first hand does not for with the perfect mumsnet way... I must be confused or being lied to...

Now I remember why I hardly post because if you don't post the same as everyone else you must be lying/confused/bigoted/rasist/have another motive/benefit basher the list goes on.

Oh and they are on dla but still get called in randomly to access if they can go to work to see if their disability is improving at all... One of which is for a "bad back" not a very bad back when laying slabs/leaning over pool tables/going on roller coasters etc but so much of a bad back it stops them working

Fact is;

There is plenty of evidence that hospitals and professionals get things wrong all the time

There is fruad within dla, this shows that people have been able to claim for things they don't really have

The rates of which children now have things like ADHD has risen drastically even though it has been a recognised thing for many years

Dawndonnaagain Wed 21-Aug-13 15:55:29

DLA fraud, by the governments own estimate is 0.04%. That's less than half a percent chatty.
If you are so concerned about these people, why haven't you reported them?
As for being lied to etc. Those of us who have had to fill out the forty odd page forms, in detail, with proof find it hard to believe, but yes, there is fraud. Those of us that are genuine would rather you reported the millions you reckon are fiddling.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 15:56:29

You can work while on DLA

I do find the comments being spouted on mumsnet just beneath the This Is My Child campaign stickies really rather ironic.

How do we get it out there to the people who need it? Because whilst it's great having a love in the idea was to educate those that need educating.

Don't know what the answer is.

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 16:07:40

I think there is a lot of wilful ignorance Saintly.

I think lots will find this campaign helpful and informative, but at the same time, some just don't want to think outside of their own little bubble regardless of the facts.

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 16:09:59

DLA fraud, by the governments own estimate is 0.04%

Which includes departmental error, I think the true fraud rate was estimated to be about 0.1%?

Oh and they are on dla but still get called in randomly to access if they can go to work to see if their disability is improving at all

Then they must also be on an out of work benefit too.

DLA is not an out of work benefit, DLA enables some disabled people to work.

ouryve Wed 21-Aug-13 16:19:44

Chattymummy DLA is awarded on grounds of need, not diagnosis. Very few children with "just" ADHD are entitled to DLA.

DS1's hyperactivity was first noted when he received a diagnosis of autism, age 3. The diagnostic team for the ASD included a paediatrician, who was overseeing his case (the referral to her was made by our HV, who knew our history) plus SALT, a psychologist and a psychiatrist and an educational psycholgist. OT were invited to participate but were not taking new cases, at the time. Once he received his diagnosis, after well over a dozen appointments of various sorts, we were handed over to our local CAMHS. The paediatrician also monitored him for the next few years.

2.5 years later, we were re-referred to CAMHS, as he was really struggling at school - struggling so much that he couldn't manage a few day, even with 1:1 support. He was stressed and dangerously impulsive and self harming. We lost a full academic year before we'd had the long parent interview, plus a shorter one, plus a couple of play observations, plus a school observation which all together finally got us into seeing the psychiatrist (everything prior to that had been handled by a MH nurse and a psychologist) so we could discuss his diagnosis and possible courses of treatment.

What you saw, Chattymummy is typically one very small part of the entire process. Many parents are also obliged to attend parenting classes - it was noted that we already knew all the tricks that they teach and were adept at handling the behaviour, just overwhelmed by the amount and nature of it.

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 16:25:25

I honestly don't have the energy to educate such people.

Which was why the campaign seemed such a great idea

ouryve Wed 21-Aug-13 16:29:16

Current version of the DLA form, btw. All 40 pages of it. (complete with pointless pictures in this current version)

GobbySadcase Wed 21-Aug-13 16:29:45

God there's a load of ignorant shit on this thread.
Makes KH appear almost enlightened.

DLA has got nothing to do with whether you are in work. It is for things like paying for taxis TO work if you are unable to get there any other way, to get extra bedsheets if you regularly soil them, to purchase special cutlery, to get a hearing aid loop or a communication device, to get specialist cushions, to be able to buy gluten free lunches etc etc etc. and for parents to repair broken furniture from meltdowns.

It barely covers even a percentage of the costs of any of the above btw and the effort required to get it is beyond most people's boredom or effort capabilities. It is easier quite frankly if you can, to get overtime or some bar work.

It is so traumatic to claim, that despite having a moderate-severe child with ASD, when the higher rate plus carers allowance elapsed 2 years ago I have still not found the time nor energy to begin the laborious effort to reapply. If my ds can just NOT be autistic for a few days and give me the time, I'll get straight onto it. Though, as mentioned before, I might use that time instead earning substantially more.

redandblacks Wed 21-Aug-13 16:39:21

Well we were wondering who reads her articles and shares her pov. This thread answers that. There have been a fair number of threads recently (one about fasting, I think) which demonstrate the same thing. Either these forums have been hiijacked by unpleasant DM readers/EDL etc. or MN is not what it used to be. For those who wonder why people affected by disabilities become isolated and marginalised and confined to distinct mental and physical spaces in the end, this is the reason.

yellowballoons Wed 21-Aug-13 16:41:17

As someone else says, I think she may have narcissism. So she wont care what people say, will carry on saying outrageous things, and also will carry on believing what she says too.

redandblacks Wed 21-Aug-13 16:47:54

She turned down a part in a debate on Radio 2 about Charles Saatchi and Nigella Lawson because producers wanted her to defend Nigella. She wanted instead to defend Saatchi ("brilliant men do odd things").

Yawn, it is getting a bit boring now...

tabulahrasa Wed 21-Aug-13 16:51:43

"Oh and they are on dla but still get called in randomly to access if they can go to work to see if their disability is improving at all."

No they don't, not for DLA - again, DLA is not an out of work benefit. Even if you doubt this because you've been told otherwise, think for a minute, how would children claim an out of work benefit?

"The rates of which children now have things like ADHD has risen drastically"

Things like? Which other developmental disorders are you lumping in there? Or do you just mean disabilities you can't see?

JakeBullet Wed 21-Aug-13 17:06:55


FFS where are MNHQ? Why on a thread with so much ignorant shite being spouted are thry not here and reminding the fuckwits about the campaign.

chatty, I don't know or care about who you know...they are NOT being called for a review of their DLA. DLA is awarded for a set son has a five year award and gets it because he is autistic. ...and he has ADHD too. I don't get "a free car" btw as he can walk....just in case you or anyone else has swallowed THAT particular load of bollocks.

I can work or not work but he still grts and learn. You are confusing DLA with ESA where people DO have regular reviews.

ADHD is a crap condition for a child to live with...even worse when coupled with autism. But hey.....we must ALL be treated with suspicion.

redandblacks Wed 21-Aug-13 17:10:07

I think that those who harbour suspicions about people having played the system and lucked out should apply for DLA and see what happens. If it's that easy to get it, why don't they get their act together and see how it goes. They can write the worst possible things about their children and even try and get prof evidence to back it up.

'ADHD is a crap condition for a child to live with...even worse when coupled with autism'

Though never as bad as when coupled also with ignorance!

Chattymummyhere Wed 21-Aug-13 17:16:30

I never said they got their dla reviewed! I said they are on dla when they really don't need to be and that in surprised that when they have their back to work meetings that they get told they don't need to go to work!

I never once said the meetings where about their claim for dla that is for other benefits they get

FanjoForTheMammaries Wed 21-Aug-13 17:18:01

You are not even making sense now

JakeBullet Wed 21-Aug-13 17:19:12

Oh you are a doctor with access to their medical records are you?


If thry are defrauding the system then report them...job done.

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 17:21:42

Was she ever making sense?

JakeBullet Wed 21-Aug-13 17:24:35

My friend gets DLA and ESA....she is able bodied but hasn't worked in over 10 years.

Nobody else except her closest friends and her doctors know she was regularly raped from the age of 9 by her step father and some of his drunken buddies.

Perhaps it's HER that you know eh chatty. Anyone whilo didnt know her coukd deem her a "scrounger" who could obviously be working. hmm

They don't see the shivering wreck she becomes on an all too regular basis

toffeelolly Wed 21-Aug-13 17:24:46

Chatty do you have a child with SN ? Honestly people like you make me sick with your judgey comments . You talk so much crap . People like you really make me sick, would not even give you the time of day.

givemeaboost Wed 21-Aug-13 17:31:19

redbanks- how does that work when you cant get proffessionals to actually ASSESS your child in the first place!? no assessment-no proof.

that was/is my situation!! All that's happened is weve gone round and round in circles between school/hospital and camhs- who were no help and basically said yes we can see hes challenging, but youre managing him very well!!! now even to get an appt to see camhs apparently hes got to be suicidal, I joked, does it count if the parent is confused
Its a complete joke though, what children are they actually seeing because my child is what I consider extremely challenging?!? seems like in my area a child has to actually knife someone or something equally serious to get any help.
Support for those with children with SN or even suspected SN needs to be a lot better than it is now, most days I struggle to actually like my dc1 as he is so challenging, respite is like a breath of fresh air.

GobbySadcase Wed 21-Aug-13 17:34:50

Jake MNHQ have no interest in our situation over and above their campaign.

They emailed me to confirm that mn is not a safe space for people with disability or their carers. Odious comments, lies and misinformation most welcome.


candycoatedwaterdrops Wed 21-Aug-13 17:41:40

tabulahrasa I know, chatty's statements are laughable because they are wrong, not 'mumsnet' wrong (e.g. without lentils lol) but actually wrong! grin

why feedthe troll that is kh

she is best ignorned

Peachy Wed 21-Aug-13 18:26:54

Some assessments do involve a tick sheet as the clinician decides whether to refer on to other specialists or tests- for example, ds4 is due an ADOS via CAMhs alongside the genetics, 3 years worth of Paediatrics and SLT delivered in six week batches with 2 month breaks since he was 3. I filled in a few tick sheets- such as CHAT- however the actual decision is absed on an MDT comprising ADOS tester, SLT, Psych, Paediatrician, SENCO, OT, PT and ourselves.

And DLA is such a pleasant experience to apply for that despite Paed telling us to and certainly needing the money for him, applying for our elder two has quite put me off (they have it but I hate the forms).
DS1 was reviewed at a year, 2 years and now at 13 has it until he is 16.5; DS2 has it until 16, he was awarded it whn he was 5.

DH works, I have a small business but have yet to be able to actually do anything due to the appointments and supervision required (a 13 year old that cannnot be unsupervised with his siblings) so I am entitled to carers. I have post grad education, carers is under £60 a week yet still people try and tell me I financially profit from the boys needs.

Like fuck do I!

ASD can be diagnosed by a paediatrician or clinical psych, I do know of a tertiary clinic where the Ed Psych can have a dx signed off bby a Psych but I also know her CV and how many specialist opinions are obtained before the child even reaches that level of assessment.

Forget attending parenting classes, I used to run a parenting group and support for a national charity before returning to university.

When people say rates of...... are rising I am intrigued; I know NAS studies show this, but they also showewd that many PCTs don't even bother keeping such stats (well they would have to offer help then.....).

And as for appointment 6 months away- well I know ds4 hs ASD; everyone does, from my Prof at University (specialist in field of ASD) to the SENCO to the geneticist and specialist ASD SLT. Even the Paed knows it and has said it but PCT policy is that he has to have an ADOS before she can label because of the family history and risk of copied behaviour (his behaviour in fact is incredibly different from sibs but I understand the rationale). I usually say 'he has special needs, probably ASD) but on occasion I have allowed him to wear his older sibling's grown out of autism alert teeshirt, say if we are at a theme park, so people understand. He has a statement and needs the same care as other ASD children, and I don't think a shirt printed with 'Sorry but my child has acknowledged special needs which mirror ASD and require the same input, whilst sharing a genetic profile with his 2 ASD siblings, however he does not have a diagnosis but if you could kindly accept that he lying on the floor crying because of this probable-ASD I would be grateful' would be as useful ;)

SunshineMMum Wed 21-Aug-13 18:29:19

There are certainly no assessment service that I have experienced during which a health care professional diagnoses autism or ADHD in seven minutes flat. I'm also very curious to know what 'mild' autism is. Katie Hopkins refers to new conditions such as ADHD and Aspergers in the diagnostic manual and yet Aspergers has been removed and autism is now referred to as ASD. I'd love to know the source of her knowledge.

Tiredemma Wed 21-Aug-13 18:32:26

Sunshiemmum. She has no source of knowledge. She quite simply talks shit.

SunshineMMum Wed 21-Aug-13 18:40:25

Very well put TiredM, I'd lend her DS for a day but that would be child abuse!

twistyfeet Wed 21-Aug-13 19:03:44

what was the point of this campaign again? The ignorance by some posters never fails to astound. It took 6 years to get an ADHD/Autism diagnosis for dd because she has cerebral palsy and experienced paediatricians confused her meltdowns for effects of her brain damage. Its not a diagnosis given out like sweeties. But now we can manage her condition with visual time plans and no sudden changes of routine and it helps.

Pagwatch Wed 21-Aug-13 19:14:42

The point of the campaign - and the upside of depressing threads like this one - is that wilful ignorance and determined prejudice still exist.

I aways find threads like this bizarrely useful as they illustrate the level of utter thickness we have to deal with.

cory Wed 21-Aug-13 19:36:58

some further facts about DLA:

it is not awarded on diagnosis but for the actual level of incapacity with aim of compensating for actual costs

if you are paralysed or have severe developmental delay you can get DLA even if the doctors have no idea what has caused your problems (= a diagnosis)

otoh having a diagnosis won't automatically entitle you to DLA if the assessors don't think your level of incapacity is sufficiently high

this makes good sense:

there are plenty of cases where it is obvious that somebody is paralysed/in severe pain/unable to understand ordinary instructions but the doctors can't give a diagnosis because medical knowledge simply hasn't got to the stage where we know what is causing it

and otoh the fact that two people have the same diagnosis doesn't mean they have the same level of incapacity: one person might be totally unable to cope without help and another might be able to lead a fairly normal life without help- it would be silly to give money to the person who doesn't need it or to deny it to the person who did

Peachy Wed 21-Aug-13 20:01:22

Mild autism is a phrase that narks me off.

Autism labels are not awarded on the basis of behavioural difficulty, and studies show the perception of severeity of behavioural difficulty does not vary between Asperger's and Autism. Indeed, of my two sons the one with AS is far more challenging.. to teh extent LEA may have to send ds3 out of county for comp as theyc annot risk DS1 carrying out his threats about what will happen if they share a school!

Mild autism tends to refer to Asperger's but that's wrong. I'm not saying that severe autism is the same as Asperger's, of course not- that would be stupid. But Asperger's is not by nature of label mild. Indeed, there are many psych issues that can be linked to AS and these can lead to a higher rate of suicide, eating disorders etc.

Mild autism is a phrase used by those who have no clue. Some people on the spectrum have less severe symptoms than others but that can vary across time and diagnostic category.

JakeBullet Wed 21-Aug-13 20:18:25

My DS would not get DLA based just upon a diagnosis of ADHD. ADHD does not cause any issues beyond a need for support in the classroom to help him access the curriculum and treatment to help him focus on the work....I don't give it in school holidays as he doesn't need it then.

He gets DLA based upon his diagnosis of autism which is far more of an issue and means he needs help to be safe, to manage his daily needs and his difficulties at night.

ADHD doesn't cause this..his autism does.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 21-Aug-13 20:24:39

Evening all
Apologies for the delay in getting here..
This is my child - myths busted

Weller Wed 21-Aug-13 20:30:39

I generally hear the term mild autism by professional service providers as a reason why budgets are stretched, I do not recall a parent with a confirmed diagnosis ever use the term. I would wonder if a person would get a diagnosis of asd if it was mild or if they would get asd traits.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 21-Aug-13 20:36:54

As far as I'm aware mild autism is not a medical term, its a term used by people to thick to get beyond visible disability when thinking about disabilities

Wannabestepfordwife Wed 21-Aug-13 20:46:56

Are schools doing more to educate pupils about SN?

I went to secondary school with a boy with aspbergergers and we were told it was a form of autism and he needed a TA but his meltdowns etc were never explained to us. He didn't really have any friends until year 10 and I think if his situation had been explained to us we would have been better, able to socially interact with him.

SunshineMMum Wed 21-Aug-13 21:02:29

Exactly re 'mild autism' and my second pet hate are people who work in a child care role, such as TAs, believing that they are qualified to comment as to whether a not a child should have been given a diagnosis. That decision is for the professionals!

SunshineMMum Wed 21-Aug-13 21:03:32


IneedAsockamnesty Wed 21-Aug-13 21:13:38

Further DLA/PIP info for those who are interested.

Being in receipt of it has no impact on the award of any out of work benefits at all so having it in no way means you will be classed as un fit for work.

Being a dwp accepted carer does not prevent you working(for dwp reasons) it just prevents you earning more than £100 pw.

Almost all the fraud involves not declaring a improvement in needs as opposed to making up a people starting off with high needs due to a confirmed condition but when it improves if it does not telling.

The other high group of fraud risk with DLA is usually not strictly speaking fraud its more a understandable error because it relates to people reciving the benefit on behalf of someone who dies not informing quick enough this usually relates to one or two or rarely three payments and is not a intentional fraudulent act but it gets lumped into the figures.

As do none claimant responsible issues like admin error even taking this into account the official figure is less than 1% of claims are fraudulent.

The reason why the forms are the way they are is because they are designed that way to actively detect fraud and trip fraudulent claimants up. Several questions are used to check up on previous answers.

It has the highest refusal rate of any other benefit (excluding Jsa dismissal or intentional unemployed sanction but that's not a refusal really its a delay) and the highest medical tribunal and appeal acceptance after refusal this strongly implies that many are refused because its easy to do so but when sent to the independent tribunal its proven they should have been awarded.

DLA also has no impact on obtaining an exemption from the under occupancy HB rule (often referred to as bedroom tax) in order to obtain an exemption the person whom the exemption is awarded for HAS to be a child as adults have no disability related exemptions,you have to be able to provide medical evidence of night time care needs and disturbance to the child expected to share ( meaning the exemption is not actually for the disabled child its for the other child) this medical evidence has to be provided by a doctor who has seen the child recently as well as that,you need to evidence it from someone who is aware of the actual night time issues (most GP's do not come to your house at night time) such as a carer (formal) or a residential placement. There is also no obligation to exempt you only to asses you. It does not matter if you get DLA or not.

Sparklysilversequins Wed 21-Aug-13 21:25:14

There's no such thing as "mild" autism. If an individual is high functioning, which is the correct term it only means they are managing better and this most likely is because they have less symptoms than a lower functioning individual, however the symptoms they DO have will be significant and need as much intervention and understanding.

There's some right dipshits on this thread.

yellowballoons Wed 21-Aug-13 21:26:01

Why is MN so often "late"?

Lack of staff, or because they like a thread to kick off sometimes to make MN more "interesting"?

GobbySadcase Wed 21-Aug-13 21:29:40

Because they prefer 'opinion'. Never mind the psychological 'kicking' some of us get, and the fact we've begged them to stop it, they prefer 'debate'.

GobbySadcase Wed 21-Aug-13 21:35:41

Oh and also - every time I see TIMC on social media I make damned sure that I mention that whilst the campaign is a good thing to raise awareness please do not ever think Mn is a supportive place to come to if you have a child with disabilities, then listed some of the examples why. At the moment it's the disabled loo threads.

The really sad thing is most times I do this I 'meet' another parent who has left this site for those exact same reasons.

It's really awful, isn't it?

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 21:54:53

There will always be arseholes. But as the parent of a child with a disability, I find MN a supportive place on the whole.

You should really add that that is your opinion only and not true for everyone.

You may speak for some, but not for all.

Sparklysilversequins Wed 21-Aug-13 21:54:58

I actually find it useful. It keeps me on my guard and well aware that the majority will treat my children like shit and hurt them through ignorance given half the chance. Helps me to go in feet first in situations where I might wonder if I should give the benefit of the doubt.

Fact is none of the dipshits have been back to say ok I am wrong. They PREFER to think the way they do about these kinds of SN, they don't actually WANT to be educated and I have seen that over and over again here on MN. Knowing that people don't give a shit and are slagging us off here AND in RL has helped me develop the hide of a rhino and my dc needed me to do that and not be pussy footing around.

GobbySadcase Wed 21-Aug-13 21:56:32

I'll agree to disagree with you, AmberLeaf. Outside specific SN boards there's a lot of ignorance.

As I say I'm finding a fair few other posters who have left here got he same reasons.

SunshineMMum Wed 21-Aug-13 21:59:55

Yes it isn't just Katie Hopkins and our autistic children, who lack a filter. I left MN for a long time, but the special needs boards are most excellent.

AmberLeaf Wed 21-Aug-13 22:03:39

I know there is a lot of ignorance, but there is also support, I have been in many a 'debate' on here and it is never just parents of children with disabilities on the same 'side' as me.

Lots of posters here who are unaffected by disability have stood up to be counted.

I acknowledge and appreciate that support.

There is a lot of support on MN SN until you upset one of the clique then it's all guns blazing regardless of truth. I also feel MN SN has gone a bit downhill since defining no need for SN children who are of adult age and the new section of SN chat which I really don't get, isn't it not just the same as children?

Anyway you will always have ignorant people as well as those who's morals and ethics are inconsiderate whether they are NT, disabled or parents of disabled children.

8dayweek Thu 22-Aug-13 08:01:05

Sock, where are you getting your figures from re: DLA fraud. I'm not doubting it's a hard benefit to get by the way, I'm just curious as it differs from what I've seen.

This govt report gives a DLA fraud rate of 0.5% last year

8dayweek Thu 22-Aug-13 08:24:30

Thank you! Sadly I think we will soon see a huge spike in DLA "fraud" as PIP reassessment comes into play. For recent claimants this shouldn't mean much, if any change, but for some 127000+ people who's claim hasn't been reviewed in 21yrs (and was often awarded with little or no medical evidence) there are presumably going to be penalties for failing to notify of a change in needs etc.

Can they do that? The pip assessment is different than the DLA one, so they surely can't say 'your pip award is lower so you must have been fraudulent with your DLA claim'

AmberLeaf Thu 22-Aug-13 08:40:50

^ but for some 127000+ people who's claim hasn't been reviewed in 21yrs (and was often awarded with little or no medical evidence^

Why do you think they were awarded with little or no medical evidence?

JakeBullet Thu 22-Aug-13 08:42:05

PIP is assessed differently so can't see there being a spike in fraud cases. Rather a rise in people who have had DLA for years at one rate who are assessed at a lower need for PIP. All that will happen is a decrease n their income......which might well be devastating for them.

8dayweek Thu 22-Aug-13 08:46:27

No, not necessarily that. I imagine more along the lines of perhaps awarded for a bad back, which was very debilitating but since surgery etc has improved to the point where there are no longer any discernible care or mobility needs - in that kind of scenario the claimant would be at fault as it's their responsibility to notify of any changes in their care / mobility needs etc. I just think it's sad in the sense that it adds more fuel to peoples claims that it's handed out like water. I'm hopeful it'll mean support is actually directed to where it's really needed, but it's no doubt just a cost cutting exercise.

But that wouldn't be recorded as a fraud as they're not reassessing the DLA claim, they're just looking at a new one. It might be "x numberif people had the highest rate of DLA & y number have the highest pip' but they can't extract fraud figures from that.

candycoatedwaterdrops Thu 22-Aug-13 08:59:03

^ what saintly said. The criteria could not be more different.

redandblacks Thu 22-Aug-13 09:43:48

I don't understand why there is a DM-style fixation on cowboy DLA claims - as far as I know, these are usually made by adults with no history of difficulties since birth or early childhood? It would really not be very lucrative compared to dubious insurance claims, pulling sickies, charming people into doing things for you, having charges waived at dodgy restaurants and hotels and so on. These are things which my child would never be able to do.

redandblacks Thu 22-Aug-13 09:47:07

These children deserve DLA and some more because they will always be at the receiving end of this kind of hatred and ignorance and giggles and looks of pity and disgust from (what sees) like a significant proportion of the population. Possibly at the mercy of sub standard 'professionals' and big pharma with agendas that aren't really about putting their welfare first. What kind of a life is that and who would have actively chosen it for their child?

SunshineMMum Thu 22-Aug-13 13:25:18

'What kind of a life is that and who would have actively chosen it for their child?'

I couldn't agree more red and black, nobody would choose a life long disability and the prejudice that goes with it.

kitty1976 Thu 22-Aug-13 13:38:36

I have to agree with KH which has never happened before, there seems to be lots of children with special educational needs compared to 30 years ago, it does seem in part an excuse if you have a naughty child. People seem to like labels now and it is in the schools interest to label childred as having special needs as they get money money from central government. Why have the number of children with special needs increased so much!! Seems very odd if it is really the case.

GobbySadcase Thu 22-Aug-13 13:39:01

Fuck off.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 22-Aug-13 13:42:03

sometimes you just HAVE to give out a fuck off. Please don't delete that MNHQ

kitty1976 - you are exactly the type of person the This Is My Child mumsnet campaign is aimed at. Why not have a read and learn something?

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 22-Aug-13 13:43:45

saintly you are so patient..and well named smile

kitty1976 Thu 22-Aug-13 13:45:06

'it is in the schools interest to label childred as having special needs as they get money money from central government'

Really? er - no they don't. They get an enormous bill of up to £10k per child, and then, and only then if the child's needs exceed this do the school get any extra money.

Since most children's needs do not make it past the £10k mark, most schools prefer to deny need and therefore deny the subsequent bill.

Schools cannot make a diagnosis either, and you, cannot make a well reasoned argument.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 22-Aug-13 13:47:30

yes, quote the Daily Mail as evidence, their stuff is always so accurate <laughs arse off>

I'm just slightly saddened tbh fanjo. MN is running a great campaign and all over mumsnet talk there are stupid comments, whilst most of the comments on the campaign are from people who already have a child with SN. So erm don't need educating.

Meanwhile those that would benefit from understand the message being shared will continue to walk around with their heads inserted firmly up their backsides.

Slowly slowly.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 22-Aug-13 13:49:13

It is very sad.

The fact they don't read the campaign and come on to make obviously goading posts makes me a bit suspicious though tbh

kitty1976 Thu 22-Aug-13 13:49:19

Ofsted report on children with special needs:

But no doubt ofsted is wrong!!

TylerHopkins Thu 22-Aug-13 13:49:22

Kitty1976 Perhaps there are some teachers on here who could tell us if they have noticed an increase in SN numbers over the past few years in their classrooms. And they may be able to explain why this is.

I haven't read the entire thread but I'm more than sure that this will have already been explained upthread.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 22-Aug-13 13:50:44

I really find it hard to engage with people who would come and try to argue with people dealing with children with SN, about things which will upset and offend them though.

My whole being just rejects them as arseholes

kitty1976 Thu 22-Aug-13 13:51:11

Schools do make a diagnosis read the ofsted article on the BBC

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 22-Aug-13 13:51:18

i mean you just wouldn't..if you were a kind and decent person, surely

schools do not diagnose conditions kitty.

They may define someone as having special needs, that is not a diagnosis.

You're not going to listen to any of this though are you?

SunshineMMum Thu 22-Aug-13 13:53:46

Well, I have to say that I am surprised at that BBC article, as my son was 'diagnosed' by a health care professional and not a teacher!

yellowballoons Thu 22-Aug-13 13:53:48

Schools get extra money in the USA for children who have ADHD.
Not sure that they do in the UK.

Schools cannot make a diagnosis any more than a parent can.

They can identify a need, and that need can stem from inadequate teaching, or remain unmet from lack of training, lack of resources or simply too many children in a classroom, but no-one except a qualified medical professional, can make a diagnosis.

My DS has ASD. I believe he could and should be in a mainstream school learning alongside his typically developing peers. However he is in a special school because we had to choose between bored or bullied as the majority of teachers are not equipped to teach him.

The BBC article is nonsense. It is talking about schools identifying children as having 'special educational needs' then calling that a diagnosis. 'special educational needs' is not a diagnosis. It is what it says it is, - someone needing extra support in education. It is entirely appropriate that schools identify children who need extra support to meet their potential.

It has nothing to do with DLA, or disabilities.

insanityscratching Thu 22-Aug-13 14:28:04

When I think back to my last year in primary I can think of at least 2 of my classmates who couldn't read or write. There were others who had "easy" spellings so pretty much CVC words and who were tested on the two times tables every week. So 25% of the class would nowadays be classed as having significant SEN.
Then there were two boys who were regularly beaten for behavioural issues and a girl who didn't speak and who was dirty ,smelly and dressed in rags who the teacher ignored.
In dd's y5 class it would be about the same two have statements and probably another eight are struggling so I'd say nothing much has changed IME other than now they are classed as SEN rather than naughty, slow bad and thick.
There was far more rote learning which hides a lot of difficulties and a lot more free reign in what we were taught and of course there was no compulsory testing.

tabulahrasa Thu 22-Aug-13 14:34:57

SEN is not the same as SN...SEN is an educational label defining that a pupil needs more support than would be expected from a typical child.

I'm in Scotland, so I'm not as up on the English system - but in Scotland anything requiring support will be flagged up, that could be a short term issue such as a physical injury or something emotional like a bereavement...children being cared from away from home are automatically considered to be needing additional support for instance. Conditions like dyslexia or just a general failure to make expected progress would all come within the same support system as disabilities. (I think England is still a little bit stricter about what is considered an SEN, but the SEN system does include non-medical issues)

That however, does not make them the same thing, just that all extra support comes from the same place.

Schools cannot diagnose any medical conditions, any developmental disorders or behavioral disorders - they can diagnose dyslexia or put children on to support registers for other reasons.

So, anything claiming that SENs are overdiagnosed by schools by default cannot include conditions like ADHD as schools do not diagnose and cannot decide whether a child has it or not, that is left up to medical professionals who then inform the school. They may try to conflate the two things, but that doesn't actually make it true.

JakeBullet Thu 22-Aug-13 15:50:26

Kit, schools do NOT make a diagnosis....only a doctor can do that....unless of course you would be happy to take your child to a teacher next time they get some odd rash or other.

What schools DO say is that "this child is having more difficulties that is usual for a child of tis age and stage of development".

They have to refer elsewhere for assessments which MIGHT give a diagnosis or might not.

My son got a diagnosis at age 7 (autism) which followed YEARS of difficulties in nursery and school with various staff knowing he was struggling, helping him cope but not knowing WHY he struggled.

Funnily enough it was a paediatrician who specialised in autism....(.so at least 15 years of study) who gave him a diagnosis of autism. The same paediatrician diagnosed ADHD a year later.......the Educatuonal Psychologist disagreed other her because DS sits politely and nicely in class. The paediatrician was RIGHT because at the age of 8.5 years my son finally learned to read with medication which gave his concentration just enough of a boost to help him.

Ad people like YOU fuck me right off because you don't WANT to hear anything except your own narrow viewpoint. The campaign is aimed at people like you but also wasted on people like you because I doubt you will listen.

You have people on this thread telling you their story and how it was for them. In return you link to the Daily Mail lol.....are you really THAT thick?

JakeBullet Thu 22-Aug-13 15:55:01

Actually cannot believe I wasted my time replying to you Kitty, you are an example of the ignorant folk I need to deal with on an all too regular basis. You know nothing except what you read in the popular press and have no intelligence or desire to consider they might have anger agenda.

Oh and SEN is not the same as SN.....just so you know. Perhaps read through the campaign and LEARN something before spouting ignorant rubbish.

kitty1976 Thu 22-Aug-13 16:19:46

Hi Jake

I have a different views to you does that make me ignorant? I'm not sure it does. No one has answered why ofstead has a different view to you and why there are now many people now with special needs, it does not make sence and potentially very worrying. Would children be better served if their behaviour was addressed rather than trying to find a label. Which may well not do the child any good in the long run. Perhaps a lot of these issues could be solved with different parenting and teaching techniques

Is a racist ignorant or should their 'different views' be accepted and tolerated?

merlincat Thu 22-Aug-13 16:21:38

Just don't bother with her, she's a fucking idiot.

'Would children be better served if their behaviour was addressed rather than trying to find a label'

Absolutely. I am 100% in favour of this. In fact I am hoping to do a Masters next year in just this thing, so important do I feel it is.

However, in order to address behaviour you do need some understanding of the cause. And almost always for school-aged children, the causes FIRST investigated are parental, then environmental, and then lastly internal.

This can take YEARS if everyone worked together, but is substantially slowed by the wide-scale reluctance to give up on the parental explanation as an environmental one would cost money in adaptions, and then, once proven without doubt that it isn't parental, there is wide-scale reluctance to give up on the environmental explanation as an individual or disability explanation gives the child rights and an entitlement to certain things, including an adequate education, which can be denied with the previous two explanations.

yellowballoons Thu 22-Aug-13 16:29:38

kitty. I think you are muddling up SEN and SN
SEN- special educational needs. Yes, teachers may say something to the parents that their child may need extra educational help. That is not a diagnosis.

A diagnosis is a medical term, and hence only done by the medical staff, who may then say that a child does have special needs - SN

tabulahrasa Thu 22-Aug-13 16:37:06

"I have a different views to you does that make me ignorant? I'm not sure it does."

It does if your views are based on wrong information and when that is pointed out to you and you are told the correct information you ignore it.

From the BBC article..

"Ofsted's inspectors said the term SEN was used too widely and assessments varied widely in different areas.

They said schools should "stop identifying pupils as having SEN when they simply needed better teaching and pastoral support"."

That is a comment on the SEN system, not medical diagnosis of conditions referred to as SNs.

ADHD cannot be diagnosed by anybody other than a medical professional working in that field.

The pupils being discussed in that article are those who are identified by schools as having SENs, not those diagnosed by a doctor.

Whether schools are trying to categorize children without an SN because they need more support rather than just offering more support is a completely different issue because it cannot and does not include any children with a medical diagnosis, schools aren't medical professionals.

The earth is flat right?

Disagree at your peril.....

ProtegeMoi Thu 22-Aug-13 16:38:35


Does anyone have any idea how hard it is to get a diagnosis for a child with ADHD or ASD. You can't get one if your a shit parent not looking after your kids properly, it isn't that easy.

No matter how many people say their neighbour or brothers uncles cousins daughter has done this!

Find one parent of a child with one of these conditions who will say it was easy to get a diagnosis, it won't happen!

Kitty lots of people have explained to you the difference between SEN and SN. And the difference between a medical diagnosis and a school identifying a child as needing extra support in a lesson. And they have also tried to explain to you what the BBC article is saying. You are either choosing not to listen or do not understand what is being said to you.

Sparklysilversequins Thu 22-Aug-13 16:42:59

kitty but you didn't just have "different" views, you have totally ill informed and inaccurate views and despite the in depth explanations provided by many on this thread you are still spouting them, so yes I would say that does make you ignorant not to mention goady, smug and about as thick as they come

ohforblardysake Thu 22-Aug-13 16:43:47

She is utterly revolting, I can't think of another female who I am more repulsed by.

JakeBullet Thu 22-Aug-13 16:45:36

Special Educational Needs = a child who has difficulty in accessing the curriculum. The reason might be medical, developmental or social. A child who is deaf would be considered to have SEN and appropriate adaptations might be needed for him.
Equally a child from a chaotic and neglectful home where he gets inadequate sleep might also have difficulty accessing the curriculum..he has SEN but no actual SN.

SN = my child is deemed to have special needs because he has a diagnosis of autism, mild learning difficulties and ADHD as well as dyspraxia...this means he struggles with day to day things like crossing the road. He also has SEN because he needs support to help him cope with classroom noises.

The child from the neglectful home does not have SN, he can cross a road, he can wash and dress himself....but the fact he is tired means he needs support in the classroom.

Over the past 15 years teachers have seen a rise in the numbers of children starting school and lacking some basic skills that in the past they would have had. They are noting a lack in social skills which needs to be tackled before they can even begin the process of teaching these children.

There are any number of reasons for that....children having too much access to computer equipment, phones or parents who do and never bother interacting. THAT is what OFSTED are seeing and rightly raising....lots of children who should not be struggling to access he curriculum ARE struggling. But the teachers are not diagnosing anything...simply identifying children who are struggling.....some struggle because of undiagnosed development issues such as autism or ADHD. Others struggle because of their circumstances.....home, divorce, drug using parents or other circumstances.

These children are then identified as having a SEN and a plan is put together to help them achieve. Some will cope wit the intervention and no longer require it after a while, some will continue to struggle until they are eventually diagnosed with some form of developmental issue, some will continue to struggle either because there is something in the child's background which is impacting upon the learning or because they continue to have an undiagnosed SN.

8dayweek Thu 22-Aug-13 17:45:17

AmberLeaf - Sorry to drop and run earlier, I was on the way to work. I say that because I work for DWP and know that a large number of DLA claims were migrated / transferred over from the predecessing benefit (can't think of it's name, but DLA replaced it 21yrs ago). I know DLA is very hard to get an award for and requires countless statements, signatures etc from professional bodies but just because it's like that now, doesn't mean it always was. This is the preliminary report, there is a more recent, finer tuned version available online too (see section / table 4) The poster upthread that spoke of family members being awarded it for made up conditions / non-serious conditions may well be correct if it's an older award. Saintly - I get what you're saying about being re-assessed for PIP, but if a doubt arises about previous suitability for DLA and failure to notify of change in condition etc which could affect award then I can there being a case for overpayment / prosecution etc. Sorry for the hijack.

Sparklysilversequins Thu 22-Aug-13 17:51:22

This is my child

Only just seen these didn't even know they'd done it. Just to add something beautiful and positive to this crappy thread.

I can only get that picture of that gorgeous girl now. Can't get any other photos. there are arrows either side of her but when I click it just reloads here.

How do you see the others?

Sparklysilversequins Thu 22-Aug-13 17:55:18

Hold on will try to link again.

Sparklysilversequins Thu 22-Aug-13 17:56:54

No. The page just doesn't work at all for me.

Do you get one big photo at the top, and then tiny ones vertically under them?

If I click on a tiny one, sometimes I get a different one sometimes I don't.

The > and < arrows don't work at all.

Is it just me?

Sparklysilversequins Thu 22-Aug-13 18:00:39

I am on an IPad and it's working for me.

twistyfeet Thu 22-Aug-13 18:54:51

From Kitty 'I have to agree with KH which has never happened before, there seems to be lots of children with special educational needs compared to 30 years ago, it does seem in part an excuse if you have a naughty child. People seem to like labels now and it is in the schools interest to label childred as having special needs as they get money money from central government. Why have the number of children with special needs increased so much!! Seems very odd if it is really the case.'

errr, because many more survive? 30 years ago my dd would not have survived her brain damage or would have been shut away in an institution. And a paediatrician diagnosed severe cerebral palsy. Mind you, even an ignoramous like rent a gob Hopkins could spot it.
So not odd really is it/ Perhaps you should read the campaign before typing such shite?

tabulahrasa Thu 22-Aug-13 19:06:20

"errr, because many more survive? 30 years ago my dd would not have survived her brain damage or would have been shut away in an institution."

It's not just survival rates either though (though yes that will make a difference)

Without speech therapy I have no doubt at all that my DS would still only be able to be understood by his immediate family, without computers he wouldn't be in mainstream school because he basically can't write, he probably wouldn't be in school at all - he definitely wouldn't be applying to unis for next year.

Things like speech therapy, occupational therapy, early interventions, computers and inclusion are all fairly modern inventions - without them schools were very different places. That's why older people had a different school experience.

Pagwatch Thu 22-Aug-13 19:22:47

35 years ago I was at school with a girl who had a total inability to control her impulses and didn't understand social rules. She was endlessly in trouble, tricked and encouraged by other pupils to worse and worse behaviour because itwas funny and the disruption was more entertaining than geography or science. She was an oddball, an oddity. She never learnt, never seemed to connect action with consequence even through to 16 years old.She had quiet gentle parents and a smart yet reserved older brother.
I remember her clearly weeping with frustration and confusion through another telling off, more detention, more lectures upon how disappointed everyone was with her.
She committed suicide in her late 20s.
She led a short tragic life. I have no doubt she was one of the children with SN that supposedly didn't exist back then.

Tiredemma Thu 22-Aug-13 19:40:24

Thrush is in the DM again talking utter shite about school run mums.

She looks like a pig in a dress.

mignonette Thu 22-Aug-13 19:43:18

Tire That's the trouble w/ Thrush- bloody hard to eliminate it once it gets a hold, it thrives on vulnerable 'run down' people/society and it is caused by an imbalance in ones own 'personal' environment.

Awomansworth Thu 22-Aug-13 19:47:37

Always with the "address the behaviour" first line. Bad parenting is all it is!

Please come spend a day with my family and explain to me why one of my twin sons has behavioural issues in certain situations and one is impeccably behaved.

According to you, nothing to do with his Autism... it's all about my parenting!

We have just returned from a family holiday (our family, plus two of my siblings family's). First time they have really spent any decent amount of time with my ds as we live too far apart. I've had apologies from all of them for not offering to help me more after seeing first hand how his Autism affects every aspect of his daily life, and I don't just mean his behaviour, which by the way is just a small part of his disability.

My ds has Autism and every fucking day is a challenge for him... It's not some made up fucking disability to absolve bad behaviour.

Go get yourself educated.

Awomansworth Thu 22-Aug-13 19:49:30

That last post was or kitty In case anyone missed that...

Trigglesx Thu 22-Aug-13 20:07:56

She really is clueless. She is complaining about them displaying the very behaviour that SHE is exhibiting. Ironic.

PresidentServalan Thu 22-Aug-13 20:56:19

I have found this thread very interesting. I can remember children at school in the 80s who were just written off but they may well have been diagnosed with a condition now (and may have had the help they needed). It's like many things, these conditions weren't known about then. Way back, people with depression were thrown in asylums - fortunately we know better now.

PresidentServalan Thu 22-Aug-13 21:05:58

And reading about all the hoops that some of you have had to go through to get the support, that is terrible. Putting behaviours down to lack of discipline is surely too 'easy' that would mean you could 'fix' it. Am genuinely sad to read some of this. I have not been through it but I would like to offer you all flowers - what you are doing for your DC is amazing!

cory Thu 22-Aug-13 21:08:45

In dc's school, the children with SN included a girl with cystic fibrosis, a girl with a connective tissue disorder, a boy with autism and a girl with Downs syndrome.

The group of children with SEN included only two of the above but also the boy who had been traumatised by watching his father murder his mother- you could see how that might interfere with one's ability to concentrate on the times table. In fact, this boy's behaviour was so disturbed that he had to have extra support to function in the classroom at all. The only funding for such support is in the SEN budget, so any child who is to have access to it has to be labelled SEN. I wonder what Ofsted think the HT should have done instead. hmm

There was nothing medically wrong with him, but his educational needs were far, far greater than those of the children who merely had physical disabilities but no learning difficulties or behavioural problems.

Again, the boy with autism could not be safely left without 1-1 supervision, so a TA had to be allocated.

PresidentServalan Thu 22-Aug-13 21:12:05

Pagwatch I used to work with a lad with poor impulse control - the bosses treated him like shit as a result - and yet he was the brightest, funniest guy I have ever known and very good at his job, he just used to get distracted and act without thinking things through.. I had to weigh in a couple of times on his behalf

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 22-Aug-13 21:20:08


Sorry I was off pretending to be a grown up but I see jake has already given you the gov link re the fraud figures so I don't have to find it myself.

What your talking about regarding historical claims....

The extra need benefit that is now called DLA/PIP before the early 70's was just called mobility allowence and was only paid afaik for mobility related disabilities and attendance allowence was for care needs (but introduced a few years before mobility)

Supplementary benefits were prior to IS was weirdly called supplementary benefit amd if you were to sick to work was invalidity benefit two types one contribution based or previous employment based the other none contribution based but this was deamed to be so discriminatory against women that in the late 70's changed to sever disablement allowence.

They also had benefits (and still do in some format as your aware) designed to compensate for disability things like war disability pensions.

Prior to about 1971 people who couldn't work due to disability had no additional support and were treated much the same as people who just didnt work.

When mobility allowence and attendance started going life time awards were rare unless it was rather obvious you wouldn't get better and in about 92 they started reforming them. Under 65's with life time awards were reassessed and many switched over to annual renewal DLA or 3/5/8 year renewals but those who were assessed as needing lifetime awards were often left on MA/AA with a long term staggered automatic change over.

It would have been highly unlikely for someone with a bad back likely to mend to have been able to first be awarded the circa 70's version and even more unlikely to retain it during the changes.

However I will agree that its a high possibility with the old means tested supplementary ones.

thornrose Thu 22-Aug-13 22:06:42

"I have to agree with KH which has never happened before, there seems to be lots of children with special educational needs compared to 30 years ago, it does seem in part an excuse if you have a naughty child People seem to like labels now


thornrose Thu 22-Aug-13 22:10:36

That is to Kitty1976 by the way.

redandblacks Thu 22-Aug-13 22:13:12

We seem to be going round in circles a lot now - circles which begin and end with a fuck off. I think it is quite obvious that there are many people (sadly including other mothers) who cannot demonstrate sympathy, compassion or understanding towards SN children and are completely unreceptive to the efforts put in to educate them. They cannot see how learning about our children and exercising tolerance would actually make them better human beings all round

thornrose Thu 22-Aug-13 22:16:26

Sorry, I just caught up with this thread. I never tell people where to go, I just couldn't help myself sad

Awomansworth Thu 22-Aug-13 22:29:12

Don't apologise thorn. I am usually immune to comments from the likes of kitty.

Tonight after a very trying day, she caught me off guard too.

I just find it astonishing that supposedly intelligent people spouts such crap especially when their only source is probably some ill formed tabloid article that is taken as gospel. Obviously as parents of children with a disability, we know absolutely nothing!

thornrose Thu 22-Aug-13 22:48:07

It's astonishing and it's also actually made me cry. blush

I'm generally really resilient but I am exhausted trying to educate my own family let alone losers on the bloody Internet.

Awomansworth Fri 23-Aug-13 08:26:36


Foxy800 Fri 23-Aug-13 08:43:24

Firstly, I can not stand this woman's opinions and as a child with special needs I find it quite shocking.

Secondly, it is not easy to get a diagnosis at all, my dd as ADHD and she was seeing a peaditition for 3 years before she was diagnosed.

Thirdly, I do agree that there are parents out there that are quick to label their child themselves without a diagnosis and to use it as an excuse for their behaviour ( I know some with formal diagnosises too that do this), I however with 99% of parents of children with special needs dont see it as this and discipline them etc, we just find a way to manage it that works for us.

I find it really hard work trying to explain to people that special needs like ADHD do exist, particularly the older generation.

Sorry my rant over.

Hookedonclassics Fri 23-Aug-13 09:01:23

No, no web chats with that madam. Personally, I would like all media organizations to ignore her and her bile, and not give her any more 'work'.

If only she would crawl back under the bridge and sod off.

Does she ever think of the damage she is inflicting on her own children by being such a hateful snob?

Peachy Fri 23-Aug-13 11:29:45

'Thank you! Sadly I think we will soon see a huge spike in DLA "fraud" as PIP reassessment comes into play.'

I suspect stats will be used that way but they will be wrong.

PIP isn't judged on same criteria, therefore they are not comparable in this manner.

For example, my eldest gets HR DLA as he has to be watched all day and night due to aggression; 1-1 supervision clause. This simply does not exist under PIP, in 2.5 years it is conceivable that he will find himself financially unsupported yet with same level of needs that necessitate a significant disability in that he cannot go out alone, speak to strangers (eg in a shop or bus driver), tell the time.

It is desirable that people who use stats know how to do it properly but IDS has been chastised time and time again over this with no obvious results.

Peachy Fri 23-Aug-13 11:30:44

'I am exhausted trying to educate my own family let alone losers on the bloody Internet.'

Yes, that. Exactly that.

Peachy Fri 23-Aug-13 11:35:40

Pag I have poor impulse control, it is a nasty thing to have to live with. Some things Ic an get help with- eg I can hand DH my bank card- but other things- for example I knew a friend's future son in law was sleeping around and combined with my very black and white thinking ended up telling Grandma to keep an eye. It cost me most of my social life, my mental health for some while and pinpointed me as a vulnerable target that could be manipulated by a very nasty gang of older women with motivations that preceeded my appearance on that scene by a decade.

Peachy Fri 23-Aug-13 11:43:04

Kitty I addressed why the SN numbers have risen, I am not nobody. Improvements in diagnosis, new diagnostic labels such as AS that only came in here in the nineties (before the children with it were simply delayed or similar), children not simply being sent to institutions to vanish, survival rates from pregnancy issues through to life threatening diseases, there's also some discussion that better habilitation of people with some disorders mean a greater chance of spreading genes on, but that tends to be focussed on specific areas such as silicone valley.

Schools label with SEN, they can't diagnose SN.

If you think my opinion as someone with 5 years postgrad study in the field, a past career for a children's charity running parenting groups and support, 3 children with ASD is no more valid than that of someone with no training or specific knowledge whatsoever then I am concerned that you uninformable. And a great many people on this thread- jimjams, tabulah, thornrose, awomans and far too many others to scroll for- are as informed as I.

justanuthermanicmumsday Fri 23-Aug-13 11:48:04

lilyy go lightly i love that term media whore, let me write that down!

Foxy800 Fri 23-Aug-13 21:49:14

My post should have said as a parent of a child with special needs not as a child with special needs!!!

MistressDeeCee Fri 23-Aug-13 22:53:34

Cant bear Katie Hopkins. But on this occasion for once I agree with just a little of what she's said. " for some children a lack of exercise, poor diet and absence of parental control is also an issue ". Yes, it is an issue and its normally met head on with an ADHD label.

That isnt to say that some children dont have ADHD. However, there are some parents who wont guide or discipline their children in any way whatsoever, who arent interested in their child's emotional and physical wellbeing. They accept the label and leave it to the school/educational authorities to sort it all out. Some children are diagnosed with lightning speed.

I dread to think how this impacts on services for children who really do have special needs.

I think Katie Hopkins is an idiot but yes, I agree with her re. why is everything these days a medical condition.

FanjoForTheMammaries Fri 23-Aug-13 22:54:55

And they keep on a comin

Oh fuck it!!

Yes yes, I agree with Katie Hopkins too. Marvellous woman, wish I was her. Speaks for the people. Should be Prime Minister........

thornrose Fri 23-Aug-13 23:01:47

hmm "lightening speed" now, wow, just wow!

Pagwatch Fri 23-Aug-13 23:04:56

So MistressDeeCee, everything she has uttered before has been rabid, ignorant, ill-informed guff which has previously made you disagree with her.
But on this one issue, you find yourself agreeing with her.

So . Rather than worry that you are stupidly agreeing with a thick media rabid loon and should perhaps inform yourself , you instead chose to think 'hmm. On this one occasion the idiot must have a point'

Which is actually more likely?

<head tilt>>

MistressDeeCee Fri 23-Aug-13 23:08:45

Yes thats right Pagwatch - I said on this occasion I agree with SOME of what she said. I am perfectly informed thank you, your patronising bs isnt required. Nor would I want to take advice from bores who call others stupid on forum - cant stand that word. Even my kids arent allowed to call people stupid.

Do grow it says at top of Mumsnet, this isnt a fight club. Keyboard warriors get on my last nerve.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 23-Aug-13 23:10:49

If you want to get a dx that the LA or NHS will accept and not just ignore then nope because

No children are dx in lightening speed,

Unless of course the lightening has about as much ompf as a three toed sloth in a drug induced coma

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 23-Aug-13 23:12:58

But out of interest, why do you think some children receive a dx so quickly?

How quick do you consider lightening speed to be?

thornrose Fri 23-Aug-13 23:13:22

Mistress you say you are "perfectly informed", can I ask where children are diagnosed at lightning speed?

Do you have direct experience of this?

twistyfeet Fri 23-Aug-13 23:14:22

Do you honestly think, MistressDeeCee, that paediatricians cannot tell the difference between poor parenting and a genuine medical condition? Really? Given you see them and SLT and Ed Psych's etc for months and sometimes years before a diagnosis is made.

Pagwatch Fri 23-Aug-13 23:15:42

Ok. Your kids arn't allowed to call people stupid but you are happy to suggest that parents seek an incorrect label for their child to excuse bad behaviour.
Interesting priorities.

I am not a keyboard warrior. I am posting on a thread which is discussing how thick Katie Hopkins is.

twistyfeet Fri 23-Aug-13 23:15:48

And I wonder how many medical degrees Gobby Hopkins has?
<google search>


Pagwatch Fri 23-Aug-13 23:16:53

Fwiw the answer to 'how thick is Katie Hopkins?' is 'very'

MistressDeeCee Sat 24-Aug-13 00:16:51

School claim my nephew has ADHD. He does play up at times. But there's also a teacher in his class who makes him very nervous. They've submitted reports etc . Saw SEN on 5th August, who say of course he doesn't have ADHD, he has different learning needs varying towards creative.

School say they are right - SEN say they are wrong. This has been going on for over a year now. Anyway..

Why on earth are some people swearing, namecalling, insulting, and actually personalising on this thread? Hardly adds to debate does it? there a gang out to get anyone who dares to disagree with their view? Is it a clique? Stress release? Fun?

Either way it just looks tantrums. Wow. Playground has nothing on this... grin

thornrose Sat 24-Aug-13 00:25:31

" there a gang out to get anyone who dares to disagree with their view? Is it a clique? Stress release? Fun? Either way it just looks tantrums"

You nasty, goady, horrible piece of work. Shame on you.

AmberLeaf Sat 24-Aug-13 00:48:03

I am perfectly informed thank you

No, no you are not. At all.

IneedAsockamnesty Sat 24-Aug-13 00:52:33

So your knowledge is limited to a yes be does not he dosnt arguement then?

Odd that you think that the situation your talking about equated to a fast dx, given that he has not been dx.

Because schools cannot dx ADHD or any other medical condition.

mombie Sat 24-Aug-13 00:52:50

Absolutely agree with you Sparklysilversequins. my ds is on his way towards a dx but I haven't badgered for it and I have questioned my parenting until the early hours of the morning. the problems he was facing at school stemmed from a lack of acknowledgement of his very real Aspergers. he was crippled by the expectations of others and suffered extreme anxiety as a result. he is much happier and calmer now that he has been accepted for who he is. we don't make a big deal out of it or make excuses for him. he knows right from wrong.

Btw, the diagnosis process has been ongoing for almost a year so it is anything but quick. I appreciate why it takes so long, and why there are so many safeguards in place. People should not assume that diagnosis are just handed out.

KH is a knob.

Pagwatch Sat 24-Aug-13 07:52:47


You think knowing one child about whom questions have been raised makes you informed? And the diagnosis that you say is given out at lightening speed was actually not made at all in that case?

There is not a clique or a gang. It is not fun or stress release. It's just that some of us get irritated when , during the launch of the This Is My Child campaign ignorant arses spout shite and don't think it worth pending five minutes considering the feelings of those dealing everyday with an incredibly challenging situation.

I bet you haven't even looked at the campaign have you? It's the ones who need to read it and try and engage some simple understanding that won't. There are loads of them on here.

I didn't realises schools were able to diagnose behavioural issues now. Is that part of the NHs cuts?

I haven't any experience of asd/ADHD or any of the other issues raised here, however, I am intelligent enough to know that children aren't diagnosed on the say so of a teacher. Yes they may raise the initial flag for the experts to then assess, but would you put glasses on your child without seeing an optician because the teacher said they needed them? I don't think so.

I am in awe of the parents on here who do have to face the reality of these issues. I hope I am never in the position they are, but if I ever am I know there will be a support network here to advise, hand hold and listen with a sympathetic ear.

JakeBullet Sat 24-Aug-13 09:03:11

I agree that for some children the behaviours which suggest ADHD might well also be indicative of issues in a child's life. I can't remember where I read it but a researcher who looked into domestic violence found a disproportionate number of children with ADHD type behaviours and wondered if they were simply showing signs of post traumatic stress disorder.

Not everything has to have a label, I don't agree with KH because in most cases an experienced paediatrician can tell the difference. I am not saying that some children are not incorrectly labeled but in those cases the standard medications will make no difference. In any case most of the treatment for ADHD is not medication based but changing parenting tactics to support the child. I spend half my life supporting my son with tasks he finds difficult. Medication just helps him in school with focus and concentration for his academic stuff. It isn't necessary at home so on school holidays and at weekends I tend not to give it.

In the case of children with PTSD we need to be improving the mental health services for children and recognising that some are utterly traumatised about what they have experienced in life.....that might prevent those children beng labeled with ADHD or anything else which seems to fit. I DO think we are moving towards this already and paediatricians are very aware of the impact that domestic violence for,example, can have on a child's life and behaviour

Peachy Sat 24-Aug-13 10:12:08

Can someone tell me how to get perfectly informed, please? Mistress?

Becuase every time I think I am up to daye some bastard releases new research and then bang! I am behind again.

School can't diagnose, they don't have medical degrees and make mistakes becuase they don't have a rounded picture.

Paeds and a few other specialists can diagnose, their job is to get a rounded picture.

Here is how H was diagnosed- he was a difficult to diagnose case as he presents in an atypical way. We now know he shares a genetic profile, didn't then.

For three eyars he was followed by Paeds, OT, HV, SLT (with weekly input), PT, SENCO. After three years all of us got together in a room with a specialist program called 3Di, and anything types into that ahd to be discussed with alll in the room and agreed. At the end a printout said autism, it also said very high chance ADHD but they went with the autism.

He has grown into the autism diagnosis; it now sticks out a bloody mile.

But yeah they do it on the uick, right?

Peachy Sat 24-Aug-13 10:17:55

And yes PTSD needs much more support; I've seen kids I think have PTSD (frm non parenting stuff) and there seems to be nothing out there. There seems to be a diagnostic value system- Autism is proper disability (mostly, I remember being refused access to disability toilets with H on basis they are not for autism), ADHD not and MH and PTSD worth nothing. That's crap- a child with additional needs deserves support end of. Costs tend to be far outweighed by longer terms costs for NOT helping- health, unemployment, etc. Suicide rates soar for example, but hey KKH knows it to be just a label, who cares about a bit of additional suicide risk and the like if she gets to be on the telly.

The woman is a danger to society.

candycoatedwaterdrops Sat 24-Aug-13 10:21:26

"I am perfectly informed" and "school claim my nephew has ADHD" are two completely contrasting statements! grin

cory Sat 24-Aug-13 10:35:18

MistressDeeCee Fri 23-Aug-13 22:53:34
"Cant bear Katie Hopkins. But on this occasion for once I agree with just a little of what she's said. " for some children a lack of exercise, poor diet and absence of parental control is also an issue ". Yes, it is an issue and its normally met head on with an ADHD label. "

What's your evidence for this? Where is this "normally"?

In my world= the world where my dc go to school, badly behaved children do not get given ADHD labels: they get given detentions! Diagnoses of ADHD are given by qualified professionals to children whose behaviour and general profile is obviously very different from ordinarily naughty children.

Parents may try to excuse their child's bad behaviour with ADHD, but parents don't get to make a diagnosis. And as you yourself have noticed, teachers don't get to decide about the diagnosis either. Your nephew didn't get a diagnosis, did he?

Children who have suffered trauma and are acting out (like the poor boy I mentioned earlier) do indeed get put on the SEN register, but that is a simple matter of flagging up that they need extra support; it does not equate to a diagnosis of SN.

SEN means (among other things): a child of whom we cannot always have normal expectations (the assumption being that otherwise children do have to live up to certain expectations- or take the consequences)

In the case of your nephew, over the next years one of three things is likely to happen:

either he will settle down as he matures and realise that he has to adapt to the group

or (as he grows older) he will be punished for being naughty until he learns to behave

or professionals will discover that there is some underlying reason why he cannot be expected to behave like the other children= SEN and adjustments will be made.

What cannot be allowed to happen is for one child to carry on spoiling everybody else's experience. My nephew was in a class with three boys displaying very disruptive behaviour, the problem was never addressed, nobody learnt anything and the (totally unsupported) teacher eventually had a breakdown and went off sick. This was the worst possible solution: nobody knew whether the boys could be expected to behave normally and should have been forced to do so or if they couldn't and extra resources should have been set in to give the other children and the teacher a break. So nothing was done at all. Years of wasted classroom time for everybody involved. Bloody awful (and I'm glad to say it wasn't in this country).

My ds was unconcentrated and lazy. He needed disciplining, so as not to ruin the lesson for himself and for everybody else.

My friend's ds is on the autistic spectrum. He needed support so the lesson wouldn't be ruined for himself and everybody else.

Big difference. And for anybody who knew them, pretty obvious difference.

'" there a gang out to get anyone who dares to disagree with their view? Is it a clique? Stress release? Fun? Either way it just looks tantrums"'

I'm sure the women who demanded the vote were spoken about like that, or those who insisted on equal rights for black people. It only looks to you like crazy adult tantrums because of your extremely narrow mind and quite possibly fear of the unknown.

You are frightened as a member of the dominant class.

'What if disabled children were treated as equals? Would that affect my taxes? Would it get in the way of my children's life chances? Would it add to competition for money and jobs? Might they get something for free that I worked hard to give my own children? What if they got into power and insisted that my business had to have a disabled loo?'

FanjoForTheMammaries Sat 24-Aug-13 11:02:28

Such claims of gangs and cliques display an astonishing lack of empathy and respect

What if one sat next to me in the cinema and kept flicking his fingers?

What if one dribbled their food opposite me in a restaurant?

What if I had to collapse my buggy on a bus for a wheelchair during rush hour because they had the audacity to feel entitled to a job?

What if they were allowed an extra council house bedroom for their caring needs, that my taxes pay and that I would love but can't afford to extend my owned house?

What if the teacher had to hand over the class to a TA in order to ensure that the child with a disability got some extra time to catch up with the class after a stint in hospital?

What if these children got jobs and had to serve me in a shop and I'd have to interact with them, not to mention hold my tongue about how they have stolen a job that a more deserving, hardworking, non tax-payer draining person should have been given.

Frightening stuff.....................

Pagwatch Sat 24-Aug-13 11:07:13

They also ignore the possibility that it really just is that a whole group of independent people have separately reached the conclusion that you are talking rubbish.

twistyfeet Sat 24-Aug-13 11:45:46

well said Starlight.
Given Hopkins previous form she is terrified of anyone not exactly like her. And resentful and full of hate.

Peachy Sat 24-Aug-13 20:42:52

I agree Twisty

I pity KH in fact, I'd hate to be like her.

But if she puts my children at risk of more hate with her under informed claptrap she needs to be put right, or at least those who follow her nonsense.

mignonette Sat 24-Aug-13 21:24:55

Keep referring to her as 'Thrush'. It'll mess up her google profile. Ans she has been made aware. She'll hate it.

Trigglesx Sat 24-Aug-13 21:46:01

I for one do NOT want KH to be here on MN for a "chat". I don't want her given that much importance. I want people to ignore her and tune her out like she isn't even there.

Remember that Buffy episode years ago, where the girl disappeared because nobody noticed her? That. Really. I want KH to have that.

GobbySadcase Sun 25-Aug-13 11:17:49

Glakit yes you will get support, but you'll also get a bunch of cunts screaming at you just because you want your child to have the same opportunities as theirs.

You'll be called entitled just because you want a level playing field when they'd rather your child didn't exist.

You'll be berated should you need to give up work to meet their care needs as that's a lifestyle choice, not a necessity which is getting increasingly stressful and frightening under the coalition.

Peachy Tue 27-Aug-13 12:02:38

Agree TTriggles

All would happen is that Thrush would walk away and forget, and the affected parents would walk away and feel awful.

Which is what happens with a LOT of these threads anyhow.

Gobby indeed. Especially if your child is undiagnosed- and 60% of Paediatric LD cases in this PCT remain undiagnosed. One of mine is undiagnosed, though e know where it is heading. He has a statement, which he will not suddenly need more the day he receives a label.

twistyfeet Tue 27-Aug-13 12:12:56

well put Gobby. Sadly enough sad

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