to feel so sorry for kids growing up in this social media era

(122 Posts)
whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 14:36:29

I am devastated for that young girl at the concert in Slane. My teenagers have just told me that she is no. one trend on Twitter. One mistake by a 17 year old and it goes worldwide. I am distraught for her and fearful for her safety. Also appalled that the boy is seen as a hero and she is vilified. Sometimes I just despair.

HeySoulSister Tue 20-Aug-13 14:37:36

is there a link? whats happened?

LifeofPo Tue 20-Aug-13 14:39:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/slane-girl-police-probe-after-2191718
Don't know how to link
Poor girl, but how stupid would you have to be?

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 14:42:47

Am crap at links (surprise, surprise). Check news for story about a 17 year old girl giving a boy a blow job at Eminem concert. No doubt totally drunk. Whatever she did not deserve this and is reported to be totally distraught.

Feminine Tue 20-Aug-13 14:43:53

YABU.

I actually think the media has done masses for teenage confidence.

I understand things can go wrong , but all in all....

orangepudding Tue 20-Aug-13 14:44:05

It was a really stupid thing for her to do in public in broad daylight, surely she must have realised that people would post pictures on facebook and twitter.

mirai Tue 20-Aug-13 14:46:01

Justforlaughs, you tick the box right underneath your message that says "Covert links automatically" smile

Just looking at the picture of HIM, it's pretty obvious that he was posing for cameras. I do feel sorry for her though. I can remember several drunken exploits that I would be blush to have posted online. I can well remember one photo..... (that I would have paid a lot of money to get hold of the negative!)

mirai blush Ah, that one! grin

I also think it irresponsible of the newspapers to print the story and make it even more wide spread than it was already. Realistically, most of her parents friends, grandparents etc will see the papers but probably wouldn't have seen it online.

CatsAndTheirPizza Tue 20-Aug-13 14:50:35

Scary times for teenagers.

Poopyisapig Tue 20-Aug-13 14:54:19

Thank god I grew up before all this crap. The harassment I got at school was bad enough, but I don't think I'd still be here today if my tormentors had had Facebook, twitter etc.

Yonididnaedaethat Tue 20-Aug-13 15:09:53

Just clicked the link and this appeared on my FB last night, only it was 2 photos of her giving blow jobs to 2 different men shock

Maybe, the social media is the least of the issues that this generation face! sad

WhatHo Tue 20-Aug-13 15:22:34

This is a horrible one-off, poor thing, but the impact of social media does scare me.

It's the fact you can't get away from it - ever. People of my generation (35+) say, "oh well, they bring it on themselves, teens can just switch off" but in social terms if you do that you might as well as well say 'I am a geek/backwards'. And very few teenagers are brave and self-confident enough to do that.

FWIW, does anyone remember the Clare Swires (sp?) email from pre-social media - where she described, his er, produce in glowing terms, and he ungallantly forwarded it to his mates who forwarded it on, and 5 million readers later...?

It ruined both their lives (the guy was a friend of a friend), and they were adults. I can't even imagine how embarrassed this girl must be

unless she's a raving attention seeker

LtEveDallas Tue 20-Aug-13 15:24:54

I must admit, this 'era' is scaring me more and more with regards to DD. I am torn between keeping her safe and letting her have some freedom/making her own mistakes.

I probably made a million and one mistakes as I was growing up, from unsuitable men, to unflattering clothes and so on. But they are all in the past and can't come back to haunt me. Kids today don't have that safety net.

But it's not just photos or the Internet. When I see TV programmes like the sleep training one, or Supernanny and the like I cringe, because again, these things never go away. For example, thanks to the TV I know that somewhere, there is a kid who had a dummy till he was 10 and cried till he was sick when it was taken off him. What happens when at the age of 15 someone else finds that footage? He will be bullied for it.

Or the horrible one of the young man with ASD filmed having a meltdown (forgive me if that is the wrong terminology), that was posted all over twitter with people taking the piss.

It does worry me, a lot.

SleepyFish Tue 20-Aug-13 15:31:28

YANBU. Glad camera phones weren't around when I was making all my mistakes. Nowadays no-one has any privacy anymore and any errors in judgement you make will be all over the net in a click. Yes what she did was stupid but all teenagers do stupid things under the influence of alcohol. Sad really.

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 15:33:26

True Just. I was no angel when I was a teenager but giving a boy a blow job was the last thing on my mind. When I had sex for the first time I had no fear that photos of the event would go worldwide.

My son was bullied at school when he was 11. The worst thing was he didn't even get a break when he came home.

I am not against social media per se and know there are a lot of positives. I use mumsnet! I can't believe that it cannot be policed especially where crimes are committed. That girl is 17 and as far as the law stands in Ireland people are circulating child pornography. I know the legal age varies. I just feel sorry for her. When I screwed up as a kid I knew it would get around my friends and I could get over the embarrassment but the whole world??

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 15:33:49

True Just. I was no angel when I was a teenager but giving a boy a blow job was the last thing on my mind. When I had sex for the first time I had no fear that photos of the event would go worldwide.

My son was bullied at school when he was 11. The worst thing was he didn't even get a break when he came home.

I am not against social media per se and know there are a lot of positives. I use mumsnet! I can't believe that it cannot be policed especially where crimes are committed. That girl is 17 and as far as the law stands in Ireland people are circulating child pornography. I know the legal age varies. I just feel sorry for her. When I screwed up as a kid I knew it would get around my friends and I could get over the embarrassment but the whole world??

SantanaLopez Tue 20-Aug-13 15:36:00

YANBU. It's quite terrifying.

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 15:42:23

Lt EVe I feel the same about those shows. I have never seen Honey Boo boo or whatever it's called but I think that is child abuse. I love anonymity. Apols for double posting, dinosaur I know!

driftwoodsands Tue 20-Aug-13 15:57:46

I agree with LtEve. I did things that I wouldn't necessarily want reminding of, let alone my family knowing (not on the scale of the Slane BJ tho'!) but now, there is no hiding place. Scary. I am glad not to be a teen now, but am scared for my own DC...

Remotecontrolduck Tue 20-Aug-13 16:03:05

It is horribly embarrassing for the girl and people should grow up a bit before thinking it's funny to repost stuff like this everywhere online.

However, performing a sex act in a VERY public place is extremely unwise and even at 17 she should know this. She must have been incredibly drunk, or incredibly stupid. The man is horrid too for letting it happen, and looking so bloody pleased with himself!

I think there's good and bad in social media. I wouldn't write it all off as it can be a real help for some.

ageofgrandillusion Tue 20-Aug-13 16:10:52

YABU. Im sorry but wtf was she doing? If you do something like that in public, well it's tough titty re the consequences.

TheOnlyPink Tue 20-Aug-13 16:16:32

Saw on twitter that the girl was admitted to hospital last night. I don't know how true it is, but I hate to think what had happened.

I have two sons who are still very young and I am terrified to think what way their society will be when they are teenagers. I can't rule their lives, I just hope I can teach them right from wrong in time!

FondantNancy Tue 20-Aug-13 16:28:48

Awful. Poor girl. I hope she's ok.

I won't even put pictures of my DCs on FB. I think everyone should have a choice as to whether they're online. But when they become teenagers ... who knows what'll happen. Will have to step up my paranoid ranting education about keeping safe online.

Mintyy Tue 20-Aug-13 16:42:19

I think kids will cotton-on soon enough.

When my dd is old enough I would show her the newspaper coverage as food for thought.

TheOnlyPink Tue 20-Aug-13 16:52:12

Fondant, I don't put pics of my kids up either. People think I'm weird and paranoid or else they think I don't understand the fb settings and try to explain. I just don't feel comfortable with it as I don't know every single person I'm friends with really well.

FondantNancy Tue 20-Aug-13 16:55:33

Yep, same here TheOnly. Most of my friends/family respect our choice but I know a few people eyeroll. Don't care. And I don't think FB settings protect you from anything - look at FB's track record. Who knows what will happen in the future.

<removes tinfoil hat>

garlicagain Tue 20-Aug-13 16:55:35

I can remember several drunken exploits that I would be blush to have posted online.

OMG, me too. I didn't stop at 21, either blush

Just another aspect of this - I once had a short, highly energetic, fling with a guy who filmed it all. I didn't know he had until some of his friends told me. That was a small group of people & I had no further dealings with them. Apparently the dick sold his films but, again, it was unlikely to impact on my daily life.

Using social media, people like him can absolutely wreck a person's life within days. It's just another area young people need to learn caution. It's a pity, as learning caution means learning cynicism.

On the other hand, social media does enhance all our lives in myriad ways, too. Maybe it's not so much "worse" as "different".

NewAtThisMalarky Tue 20-Aug-13 16:58:23

If you are devastated by it being spread online, op, why are you spreading it further? Surely you by doing so are part of the problem?
I wasn't aware of it, but wont be clicking the link or posting further.

ARealDame Tue 20-Aug-13 16:59:42

Worrying. Methinks a lecture to my teenage son as he grows on dangers of social media sad.

However, we have all behaved recklessly esp. with alcohol and would such knowledge be enough of a barrier, especially with exploitative or unpleasant friends/media...

MrsOakenshield Tue 20-Aug-13 17:04:24

I think we should be teaching our DC not to take photos of everything they see and post it online! I know you can say she did this in public so what does she expect but I also think that it wasn't actually necessary to photograph or film it!

emmelinelucas Tue 20-Aug-13 17:05:06

I was bullied terribly at school, I wouldn't have been able to cope with being bullied online too, on Facebook, etc.
Home was where I could get a modicum of peace.
On the other hand, I enjoy MN, it's the only forum I go on, so there are good things about social media.
I still wouldn't facebook, for fear my bullies found me.
They won't have suddenly turned into nice people.
That poor girl, she must have been drunk, surely and shame on the lads watching. Haven't any of them got female relatives of about the same age ? Would they watch them ?

Sanctimummy Tue 20-Aug-13 17:05:29

She looked like she knew she was being photographed. She was giving head in a VERY public place. Silly silly girl.

FondantNancy Tue 20-Aug-13 17:06:44

If you are devastated by it being spread online, op, why are you spreading it further? Surely you by doing so are part of the problem?

Don't you think this is worth discussion, NewAtThisMalarky? I didn't click the links either but I think it's a really good reminder about the dangers of social media and the need for educating our children (and ourselves).

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 17:11:13

The sites my DC showed me were highly critical of the girl and lauded the boy as a 'legend'. I wanted to show some compassion for a young girl who had clearly made a big mistake. I also wanted to express how tough it is for young people growing up in a world where their activities are monitored so frequently. This incident was reported in The Sun, The Mirror, Irish and US media to name but a few. I certainly wasn't trying to spread it further.

zatyaballerina Tue 20-Aug-13 17:28:28

I feel so sorry for this poor girl, everybody makes mistakes when they're young, it's horrifying to think that kids nowadays can't do anything stupid without having it spread over social media to be bullied and degraded in front of the whole world. She didn't hurt anyone except herself, she does not deserve this public humiliation following her for the rest of her life, she doesn't deserve the abuse she's getting, this must be so traumatic for her, I hope she gets all the support she needs to overcome it.

It is a reminder for parents to drill into our children the importance of not doing anything in public you don't want the world seeing. Sadly that's the world we live in now.

I do think that people should be held legally responsible for posting images/videos that degrade, humiliate, distress, abuse others. Public bullying should not be tolerated.

NewAtThisMalarky Tue 20-Aug-13 17:30:42

I think issues regarding social media are very much worth discussing.

I'm just not sure that giving all the details of this specific case is the best way to do it, especially given the ops good intentions.

garlicagain Tue 20-Aug-13 17:33:56

I do think that people should be held legally responsible

Agreed. Since there are usually several onlookers recording at once, their videos would incriminate each other, surely?

FrigginRexManningDay Tue 20-Aug-13 17:40:08

She is sedated in hospital sad .

zatyaballerina Tue 20-Aug-13 18:12:10

That's awful Frigginsad, poor girl and her family, I really hope those cunts who posted and shared it around social media get their comeuppance for inflicting this suffering, it's so unnecessary and cruelangry

Mintyy Tue 20-Aug-13 18:15:14

"I do think that people should be held legally responsible for posting images/videos that degrade, humiliate, distress, abuse others. Public bullying should not be tolerated."

Couldn't agree more.

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 18:26:10

Christ, the poor girl. It isn't just social media is it? She is behaved how our culture tells young women that "empowered" women should behave and is now being crucified for it.

ARealDame Tue 20-Aug-13 18:35:45

She is behaved how our culture tells young women that "empowered" women should behave and is now being crucified for it

Yes I agree, very sad for the girl, simply appalling.

FourGates Tue 20-Aug-13 18:49:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whoopdewhoop Tue 20-Aug-13 18:50:51

How awful that it is only the girl who gets ridiculed, called a tramp, vilified. What about him?? He also took part in a public sexual act. He was hardly an innocent victim. But no, he's a 'legend'. It is sickening.

FourGates Tue 20-Aug-13 18:53:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whoopdewhoop Tue 20-Aug-13 18:59:45

And had it been the other way round, with him going down on her, she STILL would have been the slut and he the hero. ARGH.

JustinBsMum Tue 20-Aug-13 19:04:11

Maybe it will get to the stage where we have seen everything and nothing shocks and we don't give a monkeys. We being the general public which includes teenagers.

TheOnlyPink Tue 20-Aug-13 19:05:38

Well said fourgates completely agree. A friend of mine on fb is constantly posting pics of her teenage DD in her pajamas etc, I feel so sorry for her. If people wanted to get at her, fb security isn't impenetrable.

whoop Absolutely. It's grim isn't it? He's somehow come out of this unscathed whereas she's the disgusting one. sad

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 19:12:54

Whoop, my 16 year old DD said exactly the same. She is about to get GCSE results and go on to other things. This story set me off on a negative spiral about the misogeny that exists in society that she will have to deal with. I sincerely hope that young girl gets the support she needs.

MintyChops Tue 20-Aug-13 19:51:31

Poor, poor girl. Whoever posted the photos is just heartless.

PeriodMath Tue 20-Aug-13 20:22:49

Couldn't agree more. It's the sheer vanity of it - endless pouty selfless everywhere.

And it's not just teens doing it, grown women too. Oh look at the subtle lighting in this hazy photo which makes me look 33 instead of 36 - must post on FB for everyone (who knows exactly what I really look like) to see.

The recording and sharing of every moment, mundane or otherwise - why???!!!

And yes, the bullying it lays them open too. And the filth they see online and share. I dread getting to the internet stage with mine.

Re the girl in Ireland, my niggle is this: she is giving out blow-jobs and letting guys grope her in full public view in broad daylight. She knows there is an audience. These kids know and expect there to be camera phones everywhere, they live through them. Did she really think nobody had seen/would see? confused

It is of course wrong for it to have been photographed and distributed. And yes it took two and he is a seedy fucker for allowing it.

But, but, what on earth possessed her?

SomethingOnce Tue 20-Aug-13 20:24:03

That lad has the bearing of an arrogant, misogynistic little shit.

What decent man would allow that to happen, let alone take pride in it? And who is bringing up these empathy-free boys who call him a legend? And what the fuck is up with people who photograph such things?

Arseholes.

I feel so angry on behalf of this girl.

SomethingOnce Tue 20-Aug-13 20:25:18

And here comes the victim-blaming ^

MintyChops Tue 20-Aug-13 20:27:02

It's the people calling him a legend and whoever posted it who are more devoid of any decency if you ask me although I wonder how proud his mum is of his leering face

PeriodMath Tue 20-Aug-13 20:27:10

Don't start that. I fully agree with much of what has been said. But is she not to be criticised one iota for this? confused

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 20:30:00

Perhaps his mum was trying to do her best but through no fault of her own he had a misogynistic fucker of an largely absent father?

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 20:31:23

Which is not to say that I didn't think of his mother first myself. How quick we are to blame a woman.

Feminine Tue 20-Aug-13 20:31:50

How drunk do you have to be to do that in broad daylight?

Or wasn't she?

Teens are so aware these days, there is no way she couldn't it have known it would have been 'shared'

I'm sorry it backfired. However isn't she 17? an age where most MNetters are saying our 'kids' are adults?

I have zero respect for an ass wipe like him however.

I'm hoping this girl will teach a few other 'ladies' how to conduct themselves in public. A sorry tale for all.

When I was 19 I was sat right opposite a young lad receiving a blowjob by two girls in his class - all three of them horrendously drunk. He can be really glad this did not happen now, and that nobody had mobile phones or digital cameras back then. He went on to become a defense lawyer, and is now chief inspector of police in X place..... Had he lived in the digital era, his life would have taken a very different path, I bet.

Kids today needs to be smart about how they behave, anything they do can spread like wildfire online.

MintyChops Tue 20-Aug-13 20:33:57

Ah come on Period, have never done something stupid when you were younger and regretted it? Imagine waking up to find that the whole world, including your mum and dad, brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, cousins, grandparents, classmates, their parents, parish priest, the guy at the local petrol station and all the gossiping biddies in your hometown not only know about it but have seen a photo of you doing it. Her life will be hellish after this.

SomethingOnce Tue 20-Aug-13 20:37:06

What happened was far from ideal, but she is being bullied and the blame for the awfulness that has resulted lies with everyone who documented and shared.

I love how the blame for the situation is being put squarely on her and not the nasty little shits who took photos and put them online!

MintyChops Tue 20-Aug-13 20:40:49

If that's meant for me Corinne, I am not blaming his mother, I sympathise with her, she will not be one bit proud of him.

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 20:42:10

I have been very drunk as a teenager. You are only aware of what is in your immediate vicinity and have no peripheral awareness. She could possibly have been at the stage where she was about to pass out.

If so then there are serious consent issues here because she wasn't able to think at all.

This little prick doesn't seem to be at that level of drunkenness.

Meglet Tue 20-Aug-13 20:42:21

yanbu. It worries me. How am I going to drum some common sense into the dc's when they are teenagers or do we need to move to some remote Scottish island with no broadband cover hmm.

NapaCab Tue 20-Aug-13 20:42:35

Just saw Jani Schofield's father has written a book about coping with his daughter's schizophrenia, it's called 'January First'
www.amazon.com/January-First-Descent-Madness-Struggle/dp/0307719081

Feminine Tue 20-Aug-13 20:43:20

Do you not think she knew it would end up being 'shared' then goth?

All teens know the drill these days...my son (now 14) has known it since he was 10.

I'm sorry that she is being vilified though.

NapaCab Tue 20-Aug-13 20:43:41

Oops, sorry everyone! Wrong thread - ignore, ignore, ignore...!

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 20:43:43

MintyChops sorry, I was agreeing. Who is raising these boys? And who, more crucially, isn't?

SomethingOnce Tue 20-Aug-13 20:44:05

I'm up for the Scottish island, let's go!

[also wonders if the Amish are recruiting]

Feminine Tue 20-Aug-13 20:45:39

something the Amish are really in to smart phones- no lie!

SomethingOnce Tue 20-Aug-13 20:46:42

That's disappointing to hear, Feminine.

Feminine Tue 20-Aug-13 20:48:27

I know...* something*

Lots of shocking facts I could bore you with ;-)

Even if she knew, and I doubt she knew it would go viral, the idiots taking the photos still shouldn't have done it.

MintyChops Tue 20-Aug-13 20:56:06

Oh, sorry Corinne, must have misinterpreted what you posted!

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 20:57:01

No it was my fault, wasn't clear smile

MintyChops Tue 20-Aug-13 21:12:01

<hugs Corinne>

PeriodMath Tue 20-Aug-13 21:17:44

Corinne, one might also ask who is raising these girls? It's a girl providing sexual acts in front of an audience and, didn't I read it was a girl who took and initially shared the photo?

I really dislike the way these threads always boil down to teen-boy bashing. It's takes two to provide these ghastly situations. Or are we assuming she was forced to do what she did?

Yes, I certainly have been in compromising positions way back when (pre mobiles thank god), drunken antics, embarrassing snogs etc but I have never given a blow job in a public arena. And I have been very drunk indeed on occasion.

So I ask you, who is raising these girls?

CorrineFoxworth Tue 20-Aug-13 21:23:51

I didn't mean to teen-boy bash, my posts were more about the absence of decent adult men in their upbringings although I admit I have called the hero a nasty name.

As for the girls, well, not everyone has a strong parent at all. Some have been brought up with addiction, poverty, subjected to abuse and casual violence and many are just victims of the porn-culture.

It's bloody horrible.

I don't think what period said is victim blaming. She is, unfortunately, the victim of her own actions.

The poor girl is coming out the worst of it due to society's warped views, but still. She did give two different lads blow jobs at the same concert. In whose world is that acceptable behaviour. Not in mine and I was certainly no angel in the not too distant past.

But I do feel terrible for her. I know the feeling of waking up and being ashamed of what I did the night before, luckily the whole world didn't witness it too.

dufflefluffle Tue 20-Aug-13 21:51:34

Thing is I have heard that giving blow jobs indiscriminately is "what happens" these days shock My eldest is only 10 and we live in rural Ireland but I have heard of a girl doing similar to this girl on a (local) school tour and it being filmed by a fellow student.
Horrific! Bad enough that girls feel pressured (because I may be naive but I cannot imagine wanting to give consecutive bj's to different guys just to fit in) to do this but the whole filming of it and therefore immortalising that deed is the stuff of nightmares. How do you successfully teach your children to be aware that they could be filmed doing/saying whatever at any stage anywhere!

This particular media report makes me feel very sad and very sick.

I'm in rural Ireland too duffle and it does seem to be becoming fairly normal.

It's crazy, how did it go from snogging a few fellas in the same night and feeling bold to this?

whitesugar Tue 20-Aug-13 22:42:29

My DD's friend aged 15 gave a boy a bj on the street outside a pub recently. My daughter went and dragged her away from him. She was completely mortified when she was told the next day what happened. I know her family well and to say they would be devastated is understatement of the year.

My daughter tells me that in school boys in her class shove their phones into the girls faces showing images of extreme porn. I am not teen boy bashing, I have a 14 year old son. Does easy access to porn somehow normalise sexual activities for young people? I am at a loss to understand.

This incident highlights that society still views women as sluts and men as studs. It's deeply depressing.

garlicagain Tue 20-Aug-13 23:28:03

But, but, what on earth possessed her?

I think whitesugar touched on the answer to this. Boys send the girls explicit videos of (supposedly) ad-hoc pornography all the time. They huddle round in groups, watching them. They think it's really cool. The boys big up the girls who (allegedly) act out porn for real with them, and the girls who (allegedly) do it seem cooler than the ones who don't. Boys put down the girls who don't.

I'm pretty old, but I understand this. It's only a harder-core version of what happened when I was at school in 1970. Back then, it took guts to opt out of the race to the -er, bottom, and I'm sure it takes even more guts now. Girls aren't just fighting peer group pressures, but an incredible wall of media pushing sexual precocity.

So insecure girl gets tons of boy attention. Whoa, she thinks, I'm cool! She pours two litres of cider and an e down her throat, immediately followed by Skinny Boy's cock.

And then she finds out they were lying sad She's far from cool.

garlicagain Tue 20-Aug-13 23:29:18

I couldn't agree more, it's an horrific enactment of double standards. Girls are damned if they do, damned if they don't, and boys somehow get away with it.

garlicagain Tue 20-Aug-13 23:29:39

... the little shits angry

LittleBearPad Tue 20-Aug-13 23:32:18

YANBU. It's scary

MmeLindor Tue 20-Aug-13 23:39:44

I do worry about this, and I work in Social Media and have already started talking to my DC about sharing and oversharing (they don't have any SM accounts yet, and won't until they are at least 13yrs old).

The problem is that it is not being taught in all schools, and it really needs to be because not all parents use SM and/or understand it.

There is no going back, we can't stop them using it. We can only give them the tools for using it sensibly. This is a great article on digital literacy

As to this young woman - I feel really sorry for her. We have all done things that we regret later. She is going to have to live with this for the rest of her life. I can only hope that the press leave her alone now.

garlicagain Tue 20-Aug-13 23:53:05

Good link, MmeL, thank you.

BlingBang Wed 21-Aug-13 01:08:24

But surely clicking on a link that shows a picture is similar to those taking it and spreading it. Do worry about this, the genie is out the lamp and can't see how it can be put back. My son is just 11 and I wonder what he has already seen and will see when he goes to high school soon. Feel so powerless.

PeriodMath Wed 21-Aug-13 01:10:33

Yes, but at the same time as educating your children about sensible use of social media...perhaps we could also try educating them about sexual modesty? You know, like not doing things in public that you wouldn't want photographed eg. giving or receiving oral sex.

garlicagain Wed 21-Aug-13 01:25:46

It seems to me that the problem has extra layers, PeriodMath. What value does sexual modesty have to a generation raised on pretty extreme porn? Whose music icons describe, and act out, sex acts in public?

To you or me, sex in public might be a boundary-pushing kick (well, it was for me blush) but the meaning's all different when sex appears to be happening all over the place, often with a camera crew and make-up in attendance.

It's a tricky path to negotiate. In some ways, issues like the one on this thread could be seen as an effect of change - new values clashing with the old, and girls coming off worse as usual.

garlicagain Wed 21-Aug-13 01:28:21

I keep thinking about how 'flappers' in the Twenties were seen as disgusting by many, and not infrequently vilified. There's a conversation to be had about how each generation of women has suffered for pushing through sexual taboos - but this isn't FWR, and I'm too tired to research & organise my thoughts around it.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Wed 21-Aug-13 01:54:31

Taking the (very real and ongoing)double standards issue aside, the worry for teens of both genders, as Quintessential says, is that the stupid things you do as a teen (and who doesnt do something stupid/ inappropriate/reckless?) will potentially be captured on digital media forever, and can be dug out with ease if there's any public interest in you in the future, even if it doesnt bite you on the ass immediately. Back in my day (dinosaur stomps past), cameras still needed film, so at school parties no-one took cameras as photos too expensive to develop, and at Uni parties, maybe a few people had them, but they've only got hard copies of photos which have probably then been lost over the years.

Kids these days have to accept that their life is on public record. It's not how I'd choose to grow up, but it's reality and that's what I'll have to impress on them I guess.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Wed 21-Aug-13 01:56:50

It's kind of ironic that we've spent generations fearing increased surveillance by the state (CCTV, ID cards etc) when actually teh real fear is surveillance by one another. At least Big Brother is only interested in your political leanings and level of law abidence.

SomethingOnce Wed 21-Aug-13 08:47:59

Exactly what RichMan said.

Sallyingforth Wed 21-Aug-13 09:28:17

It's not just extreme cases like this. It's the constant pressure to put your life out in public and be exposed to teasing and bullying. At one time bullying only happened in the playground or street. You were safe at home. Now there is no escape anywhere. I really fear for the next generation.

Bonsoir Wed 21-Aug-13 09:33:21

I agree. The pressure to be on public display is intolerable and young DC should be protected from having to make a constant broadcast of their lives.

MmeLindor Wed 21-Aug-13 09:34:38

Garlic
It is connected, and needs to be taught in school as such.

Kids should be talking more than the basic biological act of sex, they need to be made to think about respect for each other, enthusiastic consent, about porn and the way in which it makes many assume that what was once considered niche or extreme (BDSM/anal/group sex/sex act in public) is totally normal. The pressure put on both genders is immense.

Tied into this discussion is the one that kids need to have about Social Media. That pictures don't go away, and these updates may come back and haunt you.

Not just in extreme cases such as this, but also the everyday 'oversharing' that can hinder progress in their life and/or career.

Think about the young lad who posts about skiving school on FB, that he CBA going to geography class today. When he applies for Uni, will this information be looked at, and seen as a sign of a lad who is not willing to work hard?

MmeLindor Wed 21-Aug-13 09:35:44

At the same time, we should not be all 'woe is me' about this.

Social Media also brings fantastic opportunities, and the chance for young people to network and advance their careers.

They just need to use it sensibly.

Sallyingforth Wed 21-Aug-13 09:53:02

MmeLindor that's all very well, but they are being thrown into the whole media thing long before they have the maturity to deal with it.

livinginwonderland Wed 21-Aug-13 09:54:54

I think there are a lot of layers to this story. No, the photos shouldn't have been shared. That's absolutely wrong. However, if she wasn't giving blowjobs in public, there wouldn't be anything to share and she wouldn't have anything to be embarrassed about.

I'm only 24 so in some ways I've grown up with Facebook/MySpace/Bebo/whatever, but I've never given blowjobs in public, and I've gone out and got stupidly drunk with cameras around. If you don't do stupid things in public, you won't have anything to be embarrassed about.

Yes, it's not okay to photograph incidents like this and share them with the world, but we should also be teaching children modesty. It shouldn't be okay to give guys blowjobs in public. If you tackle that behaviour (and both the girl and the guys are in the wrong there), then you don't have to worry about the social media aspect of it.

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Wed 21-Aug-13 09:57:36

Agreed- it's a powerful tool, and you can use it for good or evil grin. My job relies on networking and things like LinkedIn and even FB have proved very useful to me.

I think parents also have to lead by example- there are many people in their thirties and forties who massively overshare on FB etc. (looking at you DSis)

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Wed 21-Aug-13 10:01:46

Living I agree with you, but I guess the issue is that now the stakes are so much higher than 10/15 years ago. One photo that might get you made a laughing stock for a week before it got lost/ too dogeared vs. the potential for you to be the number 1 share on Twitter within hours.

Perhaps the most important conversation to be having with kids is how to resist peer pressure/ doing stupid things to try to fit in because that's what many of these incidents come down to.

Bonsoir Wed 21-Aug-13 10:02:08

I don't think that the "opportunities" of social media outweigh the dangers for young people. Young people need real face to face human contact and physical and mental challenges outdoors. Virtual worlds are not good developmental paths.

Bonsoir Wed 21-Aug-13 10:05:22

Parents need to model healthy couple relationships and lots of physical affection in families. Talking about sex in a group context (classroom or similar) is pointless and counterproductive.

nkf Wed 21-Aug-13 10:06:43

He looks like an utter arse. Standing there like that. And those idiots nearby. All of them. Hopeless.

RooRooTaToot Wed 21-Aug-13 10:13:03

We do cover Internet safety in school, but I agree it could go a lot further. I remember talking to my year 9's about FB. So many kids have people who they are not friends with on their accounts.

I asked if anyone had a friend on their lists who they didn't know in RL. One boy put his hand up. I asked him why and he said that it was ok because he'd sent this person a message when they requested him and asked if he knew him. The random answered yes and so was accepted.

There was a pervert who managed to friend half the girls in the year group and sent them disgusting messages and photos. Once he'd found one person to accept them, he was able to make his way into all her friends accounts as they saw that they had mutual friends, so assumed that they were ok.

Parents really need to be vigilant about checking their children's social media, particularly with friends list. Also looking at what comments they are writing on photos. I've seen examples of vile sexist and sexually explicit language from children as young as 12. Bear in mind that I teach in a naice middle class school with children from highly academic backgrounds.

Also, smartphones should be checked regularly. We caught one 14 year old who had taken a picture of his penis and was showing it to other students. Modern day flashing.

I do agree with the poster that the issue of porn should be covered in sex education.

So schools could take the issue further, but parents need to educate and monitor more too.

livinginwonderland Wed 21-Aug-13 10:13:23

Rich I agree. The stakes are higher and I think that's why people need to be much more aware than they were 10/15 years ago. Before the internet, people probably were caught doing stupid things and I'm sure people did take the piss for a while, but nowadays, it's not just going to fade away. It's there on the internet forever.

People need to be aware and not do stupid things in public. It shouldn't really be acceptable for people to perform sex acts on others (or for people to have sex acts performed on them) in public like that, cameras or not. Parents need to teach modesty and decency and how not to cave into peer pressure. The "dangers" of social media in this context are only there because the two parties involved were happy to act like idiots in public.

Bonsoir Wed 21-Aug-13 10:18:41

Absent parents encourage attention seeking behavior. DCs whose parents and siblings give them lots of attention are far less likely to want to impress their peers at all costs.

MmeLindor Wed 21-Aug-13 10:29:54

Bonsoir
We can't put the genie back into the bottle. Social Media is here to stay.

What we can do is teach kids how to use it responsibly, and that has to start much earlier than it does at the moment.

My DC are 9yo and 11yo and don't have any SM accounts, but I know that some of their friends do. There has been no discussions in school about this, and when I look at their friends' FB pages, they post a lot of info that they shouldn't. I am not friends with them, and their accounts are not locked down.

Teaching 15yr olds about Social Media is too late. And since we can't rely on schools to teach them, we parents must step in. We can't say, 'I don't do that silly FB stuff' and ignore it.

Sallyingforth Wed 21-Aug-13 10:38:40

Education is essential of course, but we can't expect young children to understand all the implications of what they are getting into - even if the teachers were constantly up to date with all the latest developments (which is most unlikely).
We teach children to be responsible when using footpaths, but we still put guardrails outside schools to stop them running into the road. Some things need actual prevention as well as advice.

I grew up in the age when social media was just appearing and it was so much worse. The police and schools weren't clued up on it so bullying was rife with no-one doing anything about it.

Nowadays at least there is some repercussion, though that won't be much of a comfort to the poor girl right now.

StainlessSteelBegonia Wed 21-Aug-13 10:55:52

I agree that this is an escalation of what used to happen back in the '80s, only in those days the girls who "put out" and had bad reputations were the ones from really crappy homes and their reputations were based on gossip rather than hard evidence. The whole year at school would know, and if it was really scandalous the year above and below as well, but that was about it.

Now the whole village/county/country/Western hemisphere can share the tittle-tattle, and for 10 white-hot minutes it will flare through social media. The real damage comes from these flashes of gossip being picked up and perpetuated by the mainstream media. After all, most MNers would have no idea this had happened without national paper coverage. And it's the national papers who will help the girl's name become known to a much wider circle of people.

This is an old problem, amplified. I am more concerned that we have these damaged young people still looking for status and affection in all the wrong ways and getting vilified for it, than I am about social media. It's only a story on social media because because tsking over the bad girl appeals to a lot of people regardless of age and geography.

dufflefluffle Wed 21-Aug-13 11:47:21

The true criminal is the person who took the picture and they should be vilified and made an example of in order to get the message across that this sort of action is not okay.

whitesugar Wed 21-Aug-13 13:25:10

Children of decent parents can go to a concert, get pissed, take drugs or get their drink spiked. This girl made a complaint to the police whilst at the gig that she had been sexually assaulted involving an incident unrelated to the images which were circulated. The police informed her parents who travelled to Slane to collect her. They are awaiting the outcome of tests to see if her drink was spiked. Not likely to show anything but doesn't mean that didn't happen.

Interestingly a lot of articles today are focussing on why people post without any empathy. They highlight that engaging in social media is a solitary experience and the more we stare at screens and less at faces the more we erode empathy. We don't see human emotions like tears or distress so the less we care.

Holy shit, get me off this planet!

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