To expect DH pay towards household bills?!

(397 Posts)
glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 08:45:52

I'm feeling rather cross.
When me and now DH moved in together, he paid £300 a month to me, as the house we live in I own, so all bills are in my name (and still are).
Then he decided he wanted to do an MA which I fully supported him doing. After a while he couldn't afford the rent so I was fine with it as he was working towards something.
Since the course is now long over, we have married and have a 4 month old baby.
I work full time but currently on maternity. I can't afford to take the full year off so I'm going back when DD is 6 months old.
DH was working in a crappy wage job but recently got a better office based job for slightly more salary.
Recently I have said to him I need some money again each month, £300. Initially he agreed. Now he's saying he needs to wait this month as he's only just started the better paid job.
This morning I said, should I go back to work full time? He knows full well I don't want to go back full time - I do three 12hr shifts a week and ideally would love to have just 2 shifts.
He turned round and said I should be going back full time as we can't afford otherwise. I said I could afford it if he contributed more towards the bills and he needs to give me £300 per month again. He then said he couldn't afford it as he spends so much on our food shopping.
BTW £300 per month is no where near even half the bills so I am being generous.
I am the main earner, and he mostly buys our food.
I can afford to pay the bills but by the end of the month I am struggling and I have no money to do anything for myself. I often can't afford to put diesel in my car, I drive and he doesn't. A couple of weeks ago he had some time off and wanted us to go to the Peak District, 2.5 hours away. I told him only if he could pay the fuel as I had literally no money, I went to put £40 in but then asked if I should put £50 in, he told me he couldn't afford the extra tenner. In fact I struggled a couple of weeks ago to find £10 to get my hair cut whilst DH has several gigs he's going to in a couple of months time and goes out on camping/climbing trips with his friend.
I've never understood with married people, the my money and your money thing, it should be wholly joint, I have said I would like a joint bank account and he's agreed but it never happens.
Recently I told him I wanted to sit down together and look at both our finances closely to see how much spare money we should have. I couldn't get him to sit with me, and all I got was vague answers like this loan is approx this much, I don't know exactly.
From this I gauged that £300 would be fair to him and he'd still have spare money for himself each month. This would also mean I could have spare money for myself.
I feel like a total doormat.

Trills Tue 20-Aug-13 08:47:22

If you are a team, you live together, you have children together, etc, you should both have equal spending money.

This doesn't mean that all money must be pooled, but after all of the joint expenses (food, housing, child-related stuff) are taken care of, you should both have the same amount to spend on yourselves.

keentoknow Tue 20-Aug-13 08:50:40

But it's not fair on you at all !!!! How can he do that to you ? He is so selfish. I'm annoyed, annoyed on your behalf. How can he not see he is being a twat ??

shewhowines Tue 20-Aug-13 08:52:48

It's suiting him. Why should he change it, unless you force him to.

I hope he's reasonable in other areas of your relationship, and he will listen properly to you, when you insist, otherwise I see a great big red flag waving.

Fairylea Tue 20-Aug-13 08:53:47

Totally wrong of him. He is being a cocklodger.

All money should be joint. At the very least you should have equal spending money.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 08:56:30

You need to sit down and do a budget together - otherwise what is the point?

His resistance to that is really odd. You have a child together.

If he's spending money on the food bill, that's obviously important, but things like petrol for your car to get to work are joint expenses.

iloveweetos Tue 20-Aug-13 08:57:44

The only way having separate money works is if both partners see bills as the main priority. He needs a good kick up the ass. Not sure how though.

Jollyb Tue 20-Aug-13 08:59:26

He's being unfair. I don't have a joint bank account with DP (I would but he's not keen) but we calculate our contributions to bills etc according to our relative take home pay - currently a 60:40 divide.

expatinscotland Tue 20-Aug-13 09:00:42

Where is all his money going?

We don't quite have "all joint money" but we do make sure we have equal spending money. Our wages get paid into our personal accounts, then move various bits to our joint accounts with standing orders. Everything, including the food shopping, is paid for from a joint account. We leave a set amount in our personal accounts to spend on whatever we want, and we know at the start of the month how much should be left over so it goes straight into savings.

He needs to start contributing fairly to your families expenses. Does he honestly think the way things are, is fair? Either he doesn't realise how expensive things are, and thinks the status quo is actually fair, or he's being a selfish knobber.

SellbyDate Tue 20-Aug-13 09:04:56

WTAF ?!! You are Married. You have a child together.

He Must be earning something surely! This is totally unacceptable. Me and My DH have a joint account. All bills go in there. Separate accounts for vehicles and our day to day stuff, food, trips etc.

He pays all the bills at the moment. There have been times where i have paid all the bills, there have been times when we have shared bills. It has to be give and take. Your DH is unbelievable!

SellbyDate Tue 20-Aug-13 09:08:29

I actually want to kick your DH up the arse..he's behaving like a bloody entitled child.

You should be able to go back to work part time if you want. he ought to be supporting that not expecting you to subsidise him going to bloody gigs and whatever else he is spending his money on.

I'd tell his Mum grin

VivaLeBeaver Tue 20-Aug-13 09:14:30

If he buys all the food then how much is he spending a month on that? Could be £400 the way food prices are these days.

I don't pay anything towards household bills, dh pays the lot. Which is £850 a month inc the mortgage. He moaned about this the other day and I pointed out I buy all the food, dd's dinner money and pocket money, all of dd's clothes and stuff for her.

I reckon everything added up I spend anywhere between £500 and £700 a month. Seeing as dh earns twice what I do IMHO its fair. I think he still disagrees but has given up on it.

Nanny0gg Tue 20-Aug-13 09:14:42

In his mind he's still single.

You need to sit down with a calculator and work out all your expenses and discuss how to pay them fairly.

But in all honesty, I don't understand your methods. Is your house still 'yours'? You seem to be looking at it as though he's a lodger paying (insufficient) rent, not as an equal partner.

MsVestibule Tue 20-Aug-13 09:15:15

I can't believe you're married with a child and yet he thinks he's entitled to sponge off you whilst he's working? He should be grateful you supported him through his studies and very keen to make it up to you now.

The only thing I can suggest you do is make a list of all your outgoings and incomings and arrange a time to sit down with him to decide what's fair. I think he's got so used to not contributing that he genuinely doesn't see it as his responsibility.

glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 09:16:09

expat I don't know for sure where all his money is going as I've never seen his bank statement.
He has quite a big loan from when he did his MA, plus a couple of smaller credit cards.
He goes to a lot of gigs mostly in London which is 80 miles away. He buys books and records on eBay, which he doesn't spend a lot each time but added up I guess it could come to a bit.
He spends money on general daily things during work.

Yes sellbydate I agree it should be give and take. I supported him through his course yet I am struggling on maternity pay and have to return to work much earlier than the other mothers there.

He's even said he'd like to be a stay at home dad!

mango he knows how much the bills are as I've told him several times.

BrokenSunglasses Tue 20-Aug-13 09:19:00

You are being a doormat.

Until you force him to realise that you are serious about this, that is is a make or break issue, he will continue to take the piss and you will continue to feel like you have two children.

I think you are right to keep the house in your name, because all the financial responsibility is yours. Do not even consider putting his name in the house until he has proved he is capable of manning up.

lottiegarbanzo Tue 20-Aug-13 09:19:42

Wow. Does he realise you are married, he's not your lodger?

You need to put a simple budget spreadsheet together, work out what is really being spent, on everything, month by month. You each get a line for hobbies and entertainment of course.

glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 09:26:12

nanny well the house is in my name, but I don't see it as just mine, it's ours. I owned it before I met him so when we first lived together it was kind of like him paying me rent. Now we are married I feel it should be an equal input.
A couple of years ago we tried to get his name added to the deeds but it fell through. I was hoping to attempt again ... But then why should I when her being like this?

viva the food shopping is irregular.
Often I will find there's little food in the house so I go and do the shopping whilst he's at work.
His version of shopping is buying bread and milk, and bringing home random stuff from the bargain bucket.
If I tell him we need dishwasher tabs or washing powder I usually get a "I can't afford that right now".
Don't forget he doesn't drive so his shopping has to be brought home on his bike.

sellbydate we no longer talk to his mum. Or pretty much his entire family.
I might tell my own mum on him, that'd be much worse grin

primroseyellow Tue 20-Aug-13 09:31:03

You are a family unit not two individuals existing separately. Why not have a joint account for main salaries and pay bills etc out of that. If you are married I think he is legally entitled to half house anyway. Your present arrangement is absurd now that you have children and you are on mat leave.

straightbananas Tue 20-Aug-13 09:32:46

Can I just sound a warning bell too?ex dh and I were like this too and after we split up, I had to carry on paying everything as this was what had happened when we were married (so once we had separated). Once you set your stall out, it is v hard to change and if you split, he will still get half of everything no matter if he paid sweet fa towards it. Be warned!

MsVestibule Tue 20-Aug-13 09:33:04

You say he has mentioned he would like to be a SAHD but you appear to think that that's a ludicrous suggestion. Why? If you don't want him to, is it an option for both of you to work part time and share the childcare and household responsibilities?

lurcherlieber Tue 20-Aug-13 09:33:33

He sounds ridiculously selfish. Dont even think about putting this sponger's name on the deeds! It will come back to bite you on the bum.

wakeupandsmellthecoffee Tue 20-Aug-13 09:34:40

Get the shopping delivered .

Nanny0gg Tue 20-Aug-13 09:37:50

Ridiculous! He needs to grow up.

Sit down, put the money together on a spreadsheet (or piece of paper!), Deduct all the bills, and if you then want to treat what's left over as separate, work it out proportionately as what was put in ( so I bet he'd be left with less than you!)

Don't forget to include things like birthday presents for your DC and family in there too, or you'll be buying those out of your 'spare' cash too!

He can go to all the gigs he likes on the fiver he'll be left with after that lot!

Be prepared for much resistance.

lottiegarbanzo Tue 20-Aug-13 09:39:19

He is going to be really surprised at how much his hobbies and incidental expenses add up to.

Is he trying to hide debts from you?

A benefit of setting out a budget is that you can see where it's possible to save money and where it isn't. Unable to afford dishwasher tablets while buying DVDs and going to regular gigs? What utter bollocks!

StuntGirl Tue 20-Aug-13 09:40:11

Sit down together with the laptop and draw up a budget on excel. He's taking the piss, and I think when you put it in black and white he will see that (and so will you!)

He buys the food? Oh well done him. Does he think he deserves a medal or something? grin As the lower earner obviously he will pay less for things, and that's ok, but it needs to be fair and equitable.

X come in from you, Y comes in from him, and your household bills are Z. However you split that is up to you guys to work out. Whatever's leftover is split between you. One partner should not be struggling for money while the other spends frivolously.

BeCool Tue 20-Aug-13 09:41:19

you need to have the Cost of Living talk with him.

He needs to cover, at the very least the Cost of His Living. Ideally he should contribute towards the Cost of Family Living. If there is a difference in income contributions can be worked out on a pro-rata basis.

THe fact is, wherever he lives, he will need to pay for rent, council tax, utilities, food etc etc etc. It is a fact of life and he needs to deal with it.

You are making a huge mistake calling the £300 "money paid to you' and 'you need money from him again'. It is NOT your income - it is his contribution to his cost of living and £300 per month is way too low in my opinion. It can't come close to a fair contribution to the family bills?

Any personal spending must only come after Cost of Living is covered. What is so hard to get about that?

He is completely taking the piss OP. If he is working he needs to contribute fairly.

I'd be mighty fucked off - you could afford a longer maternity leave if he was acting like a decent human being financially.

Don't put him on the deeds - at least not until he demonstrates is's capable of long term functioning like an equal partner, instead of an overstaying unpaying guest.

shame him. ask his friends if he thinks it's fair. ask him if he thinks it's fair. if he does then I really think you've got a problem sad sad

BasilBabyEater Tue 20-Aug-13 09:43:02

Cocklodger.

BeCool Tue 20-Aug-13 09:44:24

if he is not financially transparent and trustworthy & completely honest I would not be opening a joint account with him.

I can't see how giving someone who is rubbish and secretive with finances/money access to their partners money as well, can be a working solution for anyone.

Smells like the road to hell to me.

BeCool Tue 20-Aug-13 09:47:06

If they split would the H have a claim on the house the OP owned before the marriage? Or it is just assets accrued during the relationship that are divided?

FoxyRoxy Tue 20-Aug-13 09:47:16

Is he in debt? It sounds like it, considering he has little money to contribute to household expenses and is vague and reluctant to go over finances with you.

My husband and I don't have joint accounts, for various reasons (we don't live in the uk) but we both know how much money we have, and any big spends are discussed. I would quite happily show him my bank accounts and vice versa. I am also on mat leave at the moment, so I know how hard it is to suddenly take such a wage drop. He is being unfair and he knows this but I think he's hiding something.

rosy71 Tue 20-Aug-13 09:47:44

We have a joint account which all our money goes into and all the bills etc are paid out of. We then have an equal amount paid into our own personal accounts for spending. I deal with all the money because dp is rubbish at everything like that! Personally, I think this is the best way (we tried several other ways before) and dp likes it because he doesn't have to think about the bills. hmm

Get the shopping delivered; it makes everything simpler!

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 09:49:01

He really is dreadful. What he is doing is bad enough, but refusing to have a proper discussion about it with you is terrible.

He has such a bad attitude and is happy to use you and work you to the bone so he doesn't go without. I expect this is only just dawning on you now you have a dc. And being a grown man and never having learned to drive is another red flag.

I doubt he will change, and you will probably get more and more fed up with him til you divorce him. It will be cheaper to divorce him now as the marriage is short and you have recently enabled him to do an MA by providing him with free accommodation. It might not do any harm to make a quick initial appointment with a solicitor to see where you stand.

LittleBearPad Tue 20-Aug-13 09:53:02

You need to force him to sit down and go through all your bills ad other expenses. They are your joint responsibility.

Could you get a bills account to which you both contribute and from which all direct debits etc are paid. It might make him feel less like he's paying you money.

If he refuses then he's a twat

Inertia Tue 20-Aug-13 09:56:46

Basil 's one word answer sums him up.

He is taking the piss.

Get the shopping delivered and pay from joint funds which you both contribute to.

You'd possibly be better off living on your own - try telling him he will have to move out as you cannot afford to keep him now.

Blu Tue 20-Aug-13 09:58:24

He is freeloading.

Re the practicalities of money: do a joint household budget that lists every single household bill and expense; insurance, tv licence, etc. List all other expenses such as food, all clothes and costs for your baby. An amount for other family expenses, days out, holiday savings. Add an amount for house maintenance, boiler repairs etc.

Then tell him you would like to pay all this from a joint household account, to which you both contribute to by standing order from your wages each month. Maybe suggest you do this pro rata to your earnings, or else equally (though this could be hard if you are working p/t and doing childcare on your other days.

Then add up the value of your support during his MA. Show how much the cost of your maternity leave is, the loss of earnings due to childcare and the costs of childcare.

Tell him you cannot view him as your partner in the family team unless he behaves like one.

In truth, if he does not recognise this and agree to a fair sharing of family expense after all that then he will actually be shown to be financial abusive, IMO.

I suspect he has bigger debts than he has told you about. I think you need to know. For all your pre ownership of the house your marriage makes it a joint asset. In the worst case scenario it could be at risk if be has unpaid debts. Time to get tough.

jacks365 Tue 20-Aug-13 10:00:45

Him being on the deeds is irrelevant as soon as you married him the family home became a joint asset.

Sit him down and work out a full budget for bills food etc then add some to for an emergency pot then divide whats left equally if he won't then suggest he leaves instead, he'll soon realise he's better off working with you. He needs to realise its time to grow up.

You are married with a child but haven't properly discussed and agreed finances? I find that mind boggling. You need to sit down and write down all bills. If you insist on having separate money, fine, but you need a bills account. If you earn double what he earns, then you put double into the account, if you earn half then you put half in. Food, petrol and public transport costs need to come out of bills account too.
Is simple. He is a jerk if he won't sit down and work this out properly.

sweetestcup Tue 20-Aug-13 10:03:33

I don't get him, you are married with a child, it should be a family income! Sounds as if still wants to act financially single.

holidaysarenice Tue 20-Aug-13 10:05:17

As it stands there is no way I would add him to the deeds.

I wouldn't go back to work full time if support wasn't coming from him for bills etc. Choose the hours you want and start cutting dp his share of bills to pay. Time for dh to cough up.

glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 10:06:51

I don't think he's hiding anything from me, it's just pure laziness.
But... Before he started his MA and before we were married he got a loan for 18k. The MA was self funded, but 18k was way more than what it would cost to do the course. He consolidated other debts with it but still had about £5,000 more than he needed.
At the time I told him not to have that much, just to get what he needed to get through the course.
He went ahead anyway.
Months later I discover he hadn't actually paid for his MA, in fairness it was the fault of the university and they hadn't informed him there was a mistake on their part and the payment hadn't got through; by this point he'd spent the 18k and had no money left over to pay for the course.
So then he was left with this rather large loan AND monthly payments to pay for his MA.
He hadn't told me about it, I found out by accident and confronted him. He came clean but said he didn't want to tell me for he wanted to save me the upset.
I was more upset he chose not to tell me.

Nanny0gg Tue 20-Aug-13 10:09:09

You have a problem Glossy. I'm really sorry, but it's quite a big one.

LittleBearPad Tue 20-Aug-13 10:15:58

He needs to tell you everything about his finances. It could be a lot worse than £18k.

Squitten Tue 20-Aug-13 10:16:10

All the way reading through your posts I was thinking he's hiding something that he doesn't want you to see. And now I read about the previous debt. I would be mightily surprised if there isn't something similar going on again.

You need to get a grip of this situation and get some clarity. How you can be a married couple and basically know nothing about each other's finances or your household costs is beyond me. Make him sit down with all the financial paperwork - bills, banks statements, etc, and work out a proper budget for the household and a proper list of your incomes and spends. This is not difficult and if he makes it difficult or is unwilling to show you what you need, then you know he's either not interested in contributing properly to your family or he's hiding something pretty major from you.

Time to step up and get this sorted out OP!

PearlyWhites Tue 20-Aug-13 10:18:24

Sorry I don't understand why people get married and especially then have a child if they don't share finances. I find it very odd. You need to get a joint account, you are a family.

PearlyWhites Tue 20-Aug-13 10:19:09

Yanbu btw but yabu if you let this continue.

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 10:24:02

You are not at risk of losing your home if he doesn't pay debts solely in his name because he is not on the title deeds.

I'm astonished you've put up with him for so long! No wonder he doesn't want to change it!

I still think you have a chance of getting out of this marriage without losing your home as its a short marriage but you may have to pay him aliment or offer a financial settlement. Although tbh that will probably be cheaper in the long run. If he gives up or 'loses' his job it will cost you more. Please see a solicitor.

You could also just phone up to have the bills put in his name. I wouldn't pay my salary into a joint account with him. It sounds like he will spend it on himself. you could have a joint account and pay in a certain amount each for household expenses, but he's not going to do it, is he? I would do as much to disentangle myself from him as possible in preparation for divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour.

primroseyellow Tue 20-Aug-13 10:24:33

How did he manage to spend 18k while a student for presumably a year? That is far more than most single people have as spare cash to spend on themselves. Rein him in. Take charge. Joint account, get his cards off him, give him spending money. Or he will carry on thinking he has vast amounts of spare cash to spend on himself - disastrous for you and DC.

primroseyellow Tue 20-Aug-13 10:27:41

And surely the point of the MA was to improve his job prospects. He needs to get a grip and get a decent well paid job to support you and DC. That is what a good father would want to do!

shewhowines Tue 20-Aug-13 10:30:03

You need to divorce and quickly or you will lose the house when eventually do divorce.
If you can prove they were his debts, some of which weren't known about by you, then the courts may offset them against his claim on the house. The longer you are married the greater his claim on the house. At the moment the courts will give you a much greater share of the house as you will need to provide a roof for your daughter, it was yours originally and he has not contributed. This will change over time.

You will be responsible for some of the debt you knew about, but if you split then you will receive child maintenance and maybe top up benefits.

I can't see that your marriage will survive and the sooner you do it, the better off financially you will be. I can't see any other outcome, it's just a question of when.

If he is totally sorry and relinquishes all financial control to you, then there may be a slight chance. But no gigs, no nothing. Maybe give him 6 months to show you he has completely changed but use your common sense. It doesn't look good.

Sorry, but I think you need to get out now rather than later. Leopards do not change their spots.

mayorquimby Tue 20-Aug-13 10:32:19

You're married with a kid why is the house yours and you want him to pay rent?
Surely it's a family home?

Viviennemary Tue 20-Aug-13 10:34:20

It's a nonsense. He is either your lodger in which case he should pay far more or your DH in which case you should suggest money and expenses should be shared with each of you having the same amount of spending money. He has had it easy as you have been far too generous. I agree write out everything on a spreadsheet. It's about time he entered the real world. I am outraged on your behalf.

lottiegarbanzo Tue 20-Aug-13 10:39:53

Oh come on, he knew what his MA cost, he knew he hadn't paid it. He chose to spend the money on other things, presumably with some absurd hope the university admin had totally messed and would never catch up with him. And you call that not his fault??

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 10:45:47

Crikey.

Personally, the MA thing would be a dealbreaker for me, with the other stuff.

There is no way he could not have noticed spending 18k. Not possibly.

I find it really hard to believe it was as simple as the university messing up, too, to be honest.

Sorry to be suspicious, but are you sure that's how it happened? Every university I know of would require students to prove they could fund themelves before starting and it's done precisely to avoid someone doing retrospective monthly payments.

I am guessing this will mean he has not graduated from the MA - is he even able to use it on his CV?

I really don't see how that is 'sparing you the upset'. It's just dishonest. Realistically, who can pay off that much debt without their partner knowing? Obviously not someone in his financial situation.

Charlesroi Tue 20-Aug-13 11:02:55

I wouldn't be financially linking myself with this man as it could affect your credit rating and open yourself to a possible claim against your house. My understanding is that it is still your house as he hasn't contributed towards it via money or childcare. I wouldn't fall for the SAHD thing either, unless you are absolutely sure he'd do his fair share of housework and childcare.

Agree with others - do a household budget and insist he pays his fair share of the bills. If he won't tell you how much he spends on his debts then estimate and tell him how much you need. He'll probably say he can't afford it and you'll then have to insist he tells you why. You'll get to the bottom of it but I'm afraid it won't be pleasant.

peggyundercrackers Tue 20-Aug-13 11:04:20

sorry i think hes stringing you along with regards his story about the university not noticing they were not collecting money from him. when i done my course i was not allowed to start until i had paid something towards the course and then they billed me quarterly after that - there is no way they would leave it a full year before doing something. there was one payment which was late because my work were contributing to the cost and because it was late they said if it wasnt paid by within 30 days i would need to leave until payment was forthcoming.

i think he is also lying about the amount of other debt he has by trying to avoid conversations all the time about it.

we dont have a joint account but we both know what is in the others account as we keep our bank statements in the same place and we talk about how much bills are so we both know what it costs to run the house overall which includes food, utility bills etc. etc. we also know who pays for what. we both have money left over at the end of the month but its not a mine and theirs situation.

ENormaSnob Tue 20-Aug-13 11:06:17

How can you even look at him?

He is a sponging, freeloading twat.

I recommend you get rid asap.

Spindelina Tue 20-Aug-13 11:08:08

To put another voice in...

I've hidden debt (not big - £1k ish credit card) from my DH before. I was embarrassed that I'd been silly enough not to be able to budget properly and live within the (perfectly fair and reasonable) amount I had left over after my share of the bills. I was trying to clear it myself, but it just wasn't happening. I ended up coming clean, and from then on we agreed no secrets.

Can you let him know that, if he is in debt, you aren't going to think badly of him / tell him off? That he has no need to hide anything from you, and that you can work out a plan together, pooling money and splitting bills?

(unless that isn't true!)

NoisyBrain Tue 20-Aug-13 11:16:20

I hate to add to the voices of doom, but my now XH was a secret debt runner-upper and with the wisdom of hindsight it was a red flag I should have taken more notice of.
He managed to accumulate £20k worth of credit card and overdraft debt, about which he only grudgingly came clean when he absolutely had to. We ended up remortgaging the house (it was a joint mortgage to which he contributed equally) to clear the debt. At the time I was livid with him, but we were a partnership so that seemed the best solution.
He repayed me by having an affair a few years later. I'm not saying this is what will happen to you of course, but ime you should be VERY wary of a man who keeps things from you to 'spare the upset'. My ex used to trot out that line, when what I think he really meant was 'I hate admitting I've fucked up and I'm too emotionally immature to deal with negative criticism'.
I'd tell him that from now on the household finances are a truly joint concern, which means greater responsibility from his end. He's acting like a teenager money-wise because you're letting him, and I say that as someone who made the same mistake! Good luck x.

MariaLuna Tue 20-Aug-13 11:29:16

I struggled a couple of weeks ago to find £10 to get my hair cut whilst DH has several gigs he's going to in a couple of months time and goes out on camping/climbing trips with his friend.

shock

He sounds very selfish.

Blu Tue 20-Aug-13 11:46:07

"in fairness it was the fault of the university and they hadn't informed him there was a mistake on their part and the payment hadn't got through; by this point he'd spent the 18k "

Oh for heaven's sake!

How can he have spent £18k in any degree of innocence? 'In fairness...' what rubbish. Yes, it was an admin error, anyone with the intelligence to do an MA would spot it before managing to remain oblivious to an extra £10k or whatever in their account and spending it.

Paulina321 Tue 20-Aug-13 12:24:33

lol noisybrain, that is such an honest post

Madratlady Tue 20-Aug-13 12:40:45

When I met my DH he had a large debt which he is still paying off, I have a car finance loan (bad decision made having got my first 'proper' job after uni) and a smaller debt. We have a joint account and share all of our income and outgoings. When everything is paid any money left is our money that we can both use for things. It doesn't matter that his debt was huge or that I earn less than him, we are a team.

I find it baffling that married couples have such possessive 'this is mine and that is yours' attitudes towards money, it seems to go against the whole idea of marriage and is usually unfair on one of the couple, in this case you. Would your DH agree to a joint account into which you both put your share of money towards outgoings, then you can use that for everything including food shopping an each keep whatever is left in your personal accounts after you've each paid your 'share' into the joint account?

Littlebigcat Tue 20-Aug-13 12:57:06

It sounds like he either has debts you aren't aware of or he's struggling to repay the ones you are aware of and if he were to start paying you a reasonable share of the household expenses he knows he would have nothing left for anything nice for himself. I do think you need to force the issue and sit down with bank statements and make a spreadsheet and if you are willing make it clear that any spare money is split between you both so you can both afford nice things, he needs to start seeing this as a family budget. It may be that you can't afford to work part time but you need to understand why. I would also consider asking him to pay you more than £300 (if once you've put together the spreadsheet he can afford to) and take on the food shopping and then he can't use that as an excuse and you can budget for it better. He definitely needs to start being honest with you, he sounds pretty selfish at present.

I am in a similar situation to you in that I owned my house before meeting DP, have most bills in my name and am on Mat leave. DP gives me an agreed amount which has increased since my full pay stopped and we put together a spreadsheet. I've never seen any reason to make things more joint even with a new baby, I figure at some point in the future we'll hopefully buy a bigger house jointly and things will naturally become that way.

Phineyj Tue 20-Aug-13 13:06:55

I think the key concern here is the DC. Try laying out for him the joint expenditure/calculations and discuss how you are both going to provide for DC's future -- that might be by earning, doing childcare, doing pick ups and drop offs, organising and buying things for DC -- he needs to contribute equally to this but not necessarily in cash terms. A focus on the future might just snap him out of this teenage attitude to money - or if not, at least you will know where you stand.

I will put my cards in the table here -- this has been an issue for us too since DC arrived. For some reason it seems to take some men by surprise that it has a big impact on family finances hmm

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 20-Aug-13 13:27:40

He managed to spend £18k and not pay for his MA????

So dh manages to pay for stuff for him ie concerts and cd/books but not for you/dc

You need to open a joint account and either put in the same amount or if one of you earns a lot more then 50% of salary - from this the mortgage /bills / food / stuff for dc get paid

Jenny70 Tue 20-Aug-13 13:48:32

I'd be getting legal advice on the house. Even though his name is not on the deeds, you are married and therefore your joint assets could be at risk from his debt.

He sounds extremely financially untrustworthy, and he needs to draw himself up a budget and stick to it - or you take control like he's a child. A basic card with allowance put in per week, no extras. If he can't accept either of those he is going to send you and your child down a debt ridden future.

expatinscotland Tue 20-Aug-13 14:24:32

Oh, dear, glossy, you have some very very big problems here.

The blowing of £18K would have been a dealbreaker for me, but once the cow's been milked there's no squirting cream back up udders.

Methinks this man has a lot of debt he's hiding from you.

On top of being very selfish and immature, prioritising concerts and trips for himself over doing his fair share with regards to the family.

And I would not be happy with this person being a stay at home parent. Then, when you're off, he will merrily swan off, because he'll see it as he's done his bit, leaving you with the baby.

Why?

Because this man doesn't appear to want a family. He wants to climb, camp, go to concerts, buy music and have it all bankrolled by someone else.

Wow, what a gig he's got right now in you!

ihearsounds Tue 20-Aug-13 14:42:37

Ahaha, sorry but hes having a laugh.
Where the fuck did he think the extra 18k came from? Anyone with an ounce of a brain cell would know that something isnt right, and deal with it, not go on a spending spree.. And I bet he bought you nothing. He gave you nothing, The selfish arse spent it all pn himself..

Kick this cocklodger to the kerb and find your self a real man. Not some little child... He wants to live the single live, let him.

IvanaCake Tue 20-Aug-13 14:42:39

He's hiding something. He's either up to his eyeballs in debt or he doesn't want you to know what he's spending his money on.

I really feel for you op. I couldnt live like this.

angeltattoo Tue 20-Aug-13 15:05:35

What they all said.

Also, if hecis a SAHD and you divorce, he'll be classed as the primary carer. In all likelihood, he'll get to stay in the famiy home, get custody of DC (or whatever the current correct term is) and you'll have to pay him maintenance.

glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 15:47:43

Ok, my baby is down for a nap so I have time to respond!

About the 18k loan thing, I was absolutely livid and I did reconsider our relationship. Not only was he stupid enough to spend all the money, he was even more foolish to keep it from me.
And as weird as it sounds, that a uni could never get something like that mixed up, they definitely did, although DH is absolutely not blameless.
I found it out because I read an email from the uni (Anglia Ruskin for that matter - I did my nurse training under them and yes they are atrocious). His explanation for it happening was that he is shit with money, and never checks his bank account. He only realised by the time it was too late.
He didn't just spend 18k per se, as much of it was used to consolidate other loans, for books, equipment and for train travel to get to uni. But still he wasted quite a bit.
I told him if ever anything like that happened again that would be it between us.

I haven't considered divorce - I know it might sound like I am a total pushover but it seems a bit extreme to me at this stage.
Plus the old adage of I do love him grin
It depends on how he behaves from now on, when I put my foot down as to if my marriage really is in danger.

His idea of being a SAHD is a little silly to be honest. When I go out at the weekend (daytime to do odd jobs) the first thing he asks when I tell him I'm out is "are you taking the baby with you?"
He is a good dad, but I don't think he could manage to be a SAHD as I do most of the housework and baby stuff (probably because I am BF the baby and have more time to do the housework being on mat leave.) He generally does all the fun stuff with the baby.
When he said it, my first thought was it was because he naively thinks it would be an easy ride.

I just sent him at text, as he's at work, that following this morning's conversation we need to sit down together and work out our budget in a fair manner, and that there is no ifs buts or maybes.

My plan right now, is to set up a joint account for the household bills, and I will work it out in proportion to what each of us earns.
I am doing a weekly meal planner, and our food shopping budget will be strict and the online shop suggestion I think is a good idea.
I was actually planning on returning to work full time to begin with anyway (but his lack of support for me not wanting to and to be a mother pissed me off), but I will go part time probably from next year.
I really want to knuckle down and sort my personal finances out and get a savings plan in place.

And finally cocklodger lol it would be if I actually got any cock (I can't be bothered most of the time) grin

expatinscotland Tue 20-Aug-13 16:00:20

You are playing financial Russian roulette.

expatinscotland Tue 20-Aug-13 16:02:32

'When I go out at the weekend (daytime to do odd jobs) the first thing he asks when I tell him I'm out is "are you taking the baby with you?"
He is a good dad, but I don't think he could manage to be a SAHD as I do most of the housework and baby stuff (probably because I am BF the baby and have more time to do the housework being on mat leave.) He generally does all the fun stuff with the baby.'

Wow. He has you played. Big time.

ihearsounds Tue 20-Aug-13 16:10:00

So you do all the housework. Pay all the bills. Do all the shopping apart from the odd loaf and pint of milk. Do everything for the baby.

And he does what exactly apart from spend his money on crap and run up thousands of pounds worth of debt? You really have yourself a great catch there. hmm

glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 16:26:17

I know how awful it sounds but we are happy together otherwise.
He does a little around the house, granted not as much as me, but he's getting better.
...
My personality is such that I feel a lot of guilt and take on the responsibility of others. Nothing to do with DH it's just how I am and how I've always been.

I will keep you posted and I will stand my ground and see it through.

expatinscotland Tue 20-Aug-13 16:31:33

'My personality is such that I feel a lot of guilt and take on the responsibility of others. Nothing to do with DH it's just how I am and how I've always been.'

Everything to do with DH. You're a magnet for people like this.

Honestly, you need to get serious about your finances and be firm, upfront and assertive about money and debt or you are setting yourself up for some negative financial outcomes in your life.

LittleBearPad Tue 20-Aug-13 16:36:39

'We are happy together otherwise"

He just does very little around the house, objects to contributing financially, hides debts and only wants to do fun things with DC whilst spending money on gigs whilst you pay for everything else.

Seriously!!

wispaxmas Tue 20-Aug-13 16:36:45

I don't understand families with separate finances. I can understand everyone having their own spending money, but I just don't understand the whole 'we have to each put in equally' argument, ESPECIALLY when children come into the picture. Make an appointment at your local branch to set up a joint account and drag him there. Easiest way would be to add a name to whichever account already has all the direct debits for household things. Then arrange for salaries/income to be paid into said joint account. If he's already agreed to joint finances there's no excuse not to do this. You are a family unit, it's entirely unfair to you for him to have extra spending money.

foreverondiet Tue 20-Aug-13 16:40:51

Sounds very selfish - need to sit down together and work out finances... Although probably this should have been done a while back before he decided to do the MA and you agreed not to ask for money for bills. Priority does need to be towards paying back any loads as interest will be expensive. It might be that he can't afford to go to any gigs - due to cost of his MA and the effect it had on your finances. Time to sit down - but yes agree with others cocklodger...

ENormaSnob Tue 20-Aug-13 16:43:36

You are being taken for a mug.

More fool you.

HansieMom Tue 20-Aug-13 16:51:22

So he is paying for food, but all he does is bring something home on his bike, milk, bread, bargains.

He should be doing online shop and paying for it!

He does seem a drag on you. Does not drive, big unnecessary debt, not much housework, and not much help with baby.

me and dh have one pot, everything goes In there, everything comes out of there, then we both have a small amount of spending money, we both have the same, to spend to going out with friends or clothes or book etc

and it works v well for us
but we are both sensible with money

holdays cars etc we talk about and agree together

I can't underdstand how couples do it any other way, esp couple that pay a percentage of their income in, it makes it all way too complicated

your either in life together or your not imo
but I do see this things in black and white

bronya Tue 20-Aug-13 16:54:36

He needs to show you his bank accounts, and he needs online banking so you can both log in regularly to have a look. My DH is horrendous with money - will fritter it away and never checks if he's in credit. After the last big issue we agreed that he logs in for us BOTH to check his spending, once a fortnight or so. It's working...

DuelingFanjo Tue 20-Aug-13 16:56:58

you need to sit down and split all bills and mortgage costs fairly down the middle, maybe with a bit less for him if his wage is a lot lower than yours.

Anything else is unfair.

if you need to drum it home to him get the local paper and look up the price of one bedroom flats and show him how much he is actually saving himself by living in your house.

Seriously - I KNOW it's hard to talk about money but he can't be blind to the fact that he has to pay for a roof over his head and heating and food? Can he? He's not blind, he is just choosing to pay less for as long as he can get away with and he is doing it knowingly because he can get away with it.

DuelingFanjo Tue 20-Aug-13 16:58:38

by the way - DH and I don't have a joint account but he does pay half of all the outgoings into my account by direct debit/standing order thing every month as all the bills bar one come out of my account because he moved in with me.

You don't need a joint account to be fair you just need him to realise that he is being unfair.

ask him.. 'Do you think it is fair that i pay more than half of our joint expenditure to live in this house?' If he says yes then he's a knobber.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 17:26:08

wow this is difficult. I know a lot on MN can find this kind of behaviour unbelievable and are suspicious that no one could not realise they are spending that amount of money. But i have lived with 2 men like this (both dyslexic and one 'on the spectrum'). Both take money out till it stops, and assume others (particularly 'professionals' are right so never question money like bills or whether things have come out or not). My current DH finds money daunting and refuses to open bills or deal with it to our detriment. In fact i would say he is terrified. We had an issue similar to yours where he just couldn't see how things add up, 'it's only lunch/coffee/£20 etc' . Oddly as well he thinks anything under £100 is nothing but if you go over it by a penny he freaks out. So will think nothing of spending £60 3 times in a day, but if we need something which is £110 there were months of negotiation and decision making conversations as to whether to buy it.

The only way we could stay together was to have a joint bank account and me take over all finances (especially tax - oh god the tax bills which mounted because he wouldn't send in his details or open the letters because he was scared were unbelievable). We had the full and frank disclosure conversation. All money goes into the same pot, all bills come out and we are both allocated the same amount of spending money. He refused to see how this would work, but the first month we did it we had +£300 in the acc at the end of the month rather than the -£300 we usually had.

If i don't stay on top of it it slips back tho.

I think you really need fairness in relationships otherwise you will start to resent each other. My ExH earned £39k and i earned £15k, yet he still insisted we split it all 50/50. This meant i would be crying that i had holes in my tights/shoes and he would nod sympathetically then show me the £400 camera he'd treated himself to. confused

I hope you sort it because the worry and stress is awful. Good luck.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 17:29:34

Dueling - I do think it is often fair if someone pays more than half of the bills, IF they earn more that is. It should either be proportionate or joint acc and same spends each. Otherwise more often than not the woman will suffer as usually (not always or in this situation) will suffer.

Inertia Tue 20-Aug-13 17:31:08

"We're happy together otherwise"

I'm not bloody surprised he's happy!

He's got a wife who already owned a house, has paid all his bills forever, has bankrolled his MA course and paid off his debts, looks after his child, still pays the bills even on mat leave with no income, drives him everywhere, and does the cooking and housework.

Meanwhile he gets to spend all his money on hobbies and travel, runs up debt, pays nothing for his own keep apart from whatever milk and bread will fit on a bike, pays nothing for his child, does nothing except fun stuff for his child, begrudges looking after the baby when his wife has errands to run, and refuses to either pay his fair share or discuss finances.

He's got the life of Riley, why the hell would he want anything to change?

StuntGirl Tue 20-Aug-13 17:34:08

What Inertia said.

You're being taken for a fool love!

expatinscotland Tue 20-Aug-13 17:36:29

I can't believe you fell for his excuses regarding doing the food shopping. Chortle! I took a bus and a rucksack and one of those trolley thingies and do a huge food shop for years. Or he can do an online shop.

soverylucky Tue 20-Aug-13 17:37:01

Inertia - spot on.
Show him this thread.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 17:40:13

Oh i missed the shopping bit - i thought he paid for and did it all?

It sounds as tho he wants to continue with his lifestyle of singledom but with all the benefits of having a family. Agree entirely with what Inertia says too. You should have more balance for more than just your money. Your household chores and free time should be equal too. He needs a massive reality check.

comingintomyown Tue 20-Aug-13 17:42:19

Sorry OP but Inertia has it bang on sad

BlehPukeVomit Tue 20-Aug-13 17:45:45

You feel like a doormat because you ARE a doormat sad

I hope you manage to sort things out. He sounds awful and selfish.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 17:46:28

How much does he earn OP?

Because if he rides to work on his bike, doesn't give any money to you for the expenses and only 'picks up bits from the bargain bin' (wtf!) Then where the hell is all his money going? Even if he earned min wage that would be about £600 per month surely? I wish i had £600 for myself.

You are making so many excuses for him! He's a grown man for christ sake, he should be capable of not getting into thousands of pounds of needless debt (more debt than he needed and didn't even pay for MA out of it and has credits cards, plural!), and he should also be perfectly capable of organising a weekly internet shop!

In your shoes I would be looking at his paperwork and seeing what his debts and spending are in black and white.

If you both work full time then you should have equal amounts of spending money left over after essentials. He needs to grow up and stop being such a selfish user and you need to get serious with him before you lose all respect for him and yourself.

OnTheNingNangNong Tue 20-Aug-13 17:50:56

I am a SAHP, my deal is to look after the children, clean when I can, manage the finances, try to do my non financial share as I don't earn anything.

If he doesn't pull his weight at all, you're a mug and he saw you coming...

glossyflower Tue 20-Aug-13 17:53:13

He does do the shopping but its not what I call a proper shop on a regular basis. We live quite near the supermarket so he's often buying things as and when.
I find myself during the daytime going off to do a proper shop because there's nothing in the cupboards that you could put together to do a meal.
We need more organisation on the meal planning then I suspect the shopping will be more organised.

And koala my DH is dyslexic too. He has a very high IQ, is enormously clever but when it comes to routine day to day simple things he's rubbish.

I earn £26k he earns £16k both of us full time.

He just rang me to ask if we need anything from the shops as he needs to buy lettuce (for his sandwiches)!

Dackyduddles Tue 20-Aug-13 17:55:56

He's hiding debt. You have to nail this. Sorry.

Blu Tue 20-Aug-13 17:57:19

That's the spirit, Glossy - stand your ground tonight and be assertive. Enough is enough, and don't let him benefit from what you identify as your own issues re looking after people. As a family and parents of your baby you will be stronger as a team, not as 2 people all relying on you.

Get all the bills in joint names and paid of a joint household account. Make all joint household and baby related payments from that account too. That's what DP and I do. If we are out and about and buy clothes for DS we use the jpint household account card, Ditto for family meals out, petrol for family journeys etc. So make sure a good contingency goes nto that account - and as a family, between you, you have enough.

Good luck. stay clear and focussed on what you want and what is fair.

Bearbehind Tue 20-Aug-13 18:14:24

OP, as others have said, you are being taken for a ride but it seems only time will prove that to you. You do everything and pay for everything- no wonder he is happy!

In the mean time DO NOT SET UP A JOINT ACCOUNT WITH HIM, if he is hiding debts and you become financially linked it will screw up your credit rating when if the shit hits the fan.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 18:20:24

Well i understand then Glossy as my DH is exactly the same (2 masters but can't do basic things - and people on here will tell you they can but they are just lazy etc, but unless you see someone struggle, really tearfully struggle you don't know what it's like). BUT just because it is hard it is no reason not to deal with it. PILs always gave DH a free ride because he was dyslexic as 'it would be cruel to expect him to do things' confused

This is why we had to have more strict rules in place and me take over all finances otherwise it would have ended our marriage. I also explained the costs of living alone just in case he felt he would be better off without me! We have agreements with chores and reciprocal free time now too.

ATM he is not understanding the reality of money in any way. I can say to DH 'that will cost £100 but we only have £50' and he will say okay then lets buy it. confused So some people do find it impossible to deal with numbers or money - in which case he needs to accept you will manage it all. What i hate is when people deny there is a problem, or arrogantly insist on carrying on without accepting someone has better skills in this area. You really need to lay it on the line for him.

If he earns £16k then he's got circa £1k coming in each month. How the hell can't he afford to contribute?!

StuntGirl Tue 20-Aug-13 18:24:36

Astonishing. Some people seem to love keeping themselves in shitty situations. Fascinating.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 18:25:48

Oh and £16k is over a thousand a month. Even if he spends £200 on 'bits' of food. Where is the rest. You need to see his statements.

tanfastic Tue 20-Aug-13 18:28:14

My dh was moaning recently about money and making suggestions about how I had more disposable income than him. I presented him with a list of my outgoings and incomings and he soon went off with this tail between his legs. I suggest you spell it out.

MrsKoala Tue 20-Aug-13 18:32:20

I hardly think that is fair StuntGirl. What do you think the alternative is?

LessMissAbs Tue 20-Aug-13 19:43:48

I'd be getting legal advice on the house. Even though his name is not on the deeds, you are married and therefore your joint assets could be at risk from his debt

Can I point out this just isn't true. If you haven't taken out a loan, you cannot be liable on it just because your spouse has done so. Spouses retain their own legal identity.

Its actually a well known practice to put the house in the name of one spouse only if the other spouse is embarking on a risky business venture. If that spouse is then bankrupted, the house should be same from bankruptcy proceedings, provided the transfer took place a reasonable time before the bankruptcy.

The only risk to you from his debts is if you divorce and he factors them into his settlement somehow.

Inertia Tue 20-Aug-13 19:48:20

Glossy, coupled with the assertive attitude you need clear evidence . You will need all the facts and figures showing all outgoings - regular bills, mortgage, car running and maintenance costs, the food you have to buy to make actual meals with, baby food / milk / nappies / clothing / activities , seasonal things like holidays and Christmas / birthday presents, debt repayment, household repairs and maintenance - and income

He needs to provide payslips and bank statements. Don't allow him to fob you off.

Gruffalump Wed 21-Aug-13 08:53:55

So how did your discussion go?

msrisotto Wed 21-Aug-13 09:26:09

He's taking you for a ride. I hope that he came to his senses during your conversation.....

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 09:55:39

I'm just off out so will reply in full later.
He is a knobber. But I think afterwards he thought about it and felt bad.

Nanny0gg Wed 21-Aug-13 10:06:00

"We're happy together otherwise" I'm not bloody surprised he's happy! He's got a wife who already owned a house, has paid all his bills forever, has bankrolled his MA course and paid off his debts, looks after his child, still pays the bills even on mat leave with no income, drives him everywhere, and does the cooking and housework. Meanwhile he gets to spend all his money on hobbies and travel, runs up debt, pays nothing for his own keep apart from whatever milk and bread will fit on a bike, pays nothing for his child, does nothing except fun stuff for his child, begrudges looking after the baby when his wife has errands to run, and refuses to either pay his fair share or discuss finances. He's got the life of Riley, why the hell would he want anything to change?

Inertia's post bears repeating.

And you want to do it the wrong way round, OP. Don't put into the joint pot proportionally - put everything in the joint pot. Deduct all expenses and then share out what's left proportionately.

Otherwise I guarantee, he will not change what he does.

Nanny0gg Wed 21-Aug-13 10:06:36

He is a knobber. But I think afterwards he thought about it and felt bad.

Oh. Good.

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 12:10:52

Ok so here was basically what he said.

I sat down with the laptop and paper and pen and wrote down all our expenditure.
I didn't have a go at him I just was firm.
I asked him to log on to his account, he said he already checked it earlier and knew his outgoings.
So I didn't actually see his statement
I asked why he didn't want me to see his statement was he hiding something. He said as a joke he didn't want me to see all the prostitutes he was hiring. I just glared. It was a joke but this was a serious conversation.
So anyway his take home is about £1100 a month. His outgoings are £570. Just under £400 of that is that 18k loan. The other stuff are his credit card (paying more than minimum payment), life insurance (only covers me as he was unable to get insurance due to medical problem - I told him to cancel this as we can get insurance together and probably cheaper, but he didn't want to cancel) and his mobile phone.
That leaves approx £500 left over.
He made a point of saying shopping this month had cost him £380.
I said we should plan our meals better and do Internet shopping. He said he doesn't like Internet shopping as if they don't have an item it's replaced with something he doesn't want.
I totalled my current pay (maternity - when I go back to work I should have between £200 and £500 more it varies) and my expenditure (I say mine but I mean what comes from my account) totals £1600. That's including childcare that hasn't started yet. £1350 without childcare.
That includes, gas, electric, water, council tax, mortgage, mobile phone, home phone, broadband, credit card, car tax, car insurance, nursing licence, union fees, car breakdown cover, pet food, nappies, diesel.. All I can think of right now but I'm sure there's more.
He was shocked to see that amount.
I asked him if he thought it was it was fair but he said it was like I was saying he doesn't contribute at all and shopping is quite expensive.
He said that we have always had this arrangement, as I earn more than him.
I said it wasn't like this to begin with, he paid £300 a month until he started his masters but he denied that.
He said his loan is quite big, I told him that was not my problem as when he got the loan I strongly advised him not to but he did anyway. I told him he would not be able to live anywhere else for the amount he pays.
Then he mentioned he needed spending money for himself and I said that I did too. He said that whenever I do have an opportunity to do something I don't do it.
No I don't because I know realistically its unaffordable.
Then he pointed out I had spent some money recently, a few weeks ago on 3 items of clothing. He said he can't afford new clothes (I won't even go there because I know it will piss off you mumsnetters even more!)
Yes I spent £25 in Asda on clothes because I needed some new tops that fit me nicely (i have a 4 month old baby and I am breastfeeding) and that was only after I had sold my old car for £350
Later I told him I knew I had mug written all over my face and one of these days enough will be enough.
He shook his head, gave me a hug and said sorry.
Not quite the outcome I wanted but I am going to talk to him again.

I'm awaiting the onslaught hmm

stickingattwo Wed 21-Aug-13 12:20:22

Needs to grow up. DP and I used to pay into a joint account, splitting the cost proportionally - highest earner paid % more depending on how much more they earned. Now we have 2 kids, childcare etc we put all our salary in the joint/savings etc except a personal 'allowance' each - the same amount BTW even though I earn 2x Dp's salary.
If we have something big to buy or need extra cas that's fine but discussed. That way no-one feels like a 2nd class citizen in the relationship.
You need to sit down look at the ingoings and outgoings then sort out who pays what - or go ahed with joint account. You're married so the law pretty much considers you financially responsible for each other.

5amisnotmorning Wed 21-Aug-13 12:23:35

My mum always said that sorry means that I won't do it again. But nothing has changed so he is not sorry at all is he?

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 12:32:16

I think it's a pretty fair summary of someone in denial koala, yes. Look how many excuses she kept making for him - on £1k per month and he can't contribute to family life? The logic is so arse backwards it's unreal.

Anyway, I digress, because she's spoken to him. Good job glossy. So it seems you didn't actually get chance to draw up your new budget then? Ok that's the next step.

He likes to throw up roadblocks left right and centre doesn't he? Can't show you his statement because he's already checked it and he knows. Can't do internet shopping because he doesn't like the substitutions. Can't possibly contribute any more because he's bought food this month.

I personally would draw up the family budget and present it to him fait accompli. If I worked it out right from your post you have a family income of approx. £2700pcm, you are going overdrawn so presumably your wages are gone by the end of the month and he has £500 spare. Madness!

If you put your wages together to pay all bills and outgoings then split the difference of what's left and you should have £250ish each to spend. So much fairer. How could he argue those two scenarios with a straight face?

jacks365 Wed 21-Aug-13 12:35:11

He's going to try to squirm out of this. He can't realistically object to the two of you having equal spends after meeting essential expenses so I would suggest going that route.

scallopsrgreat Wed 21-Aug-13 12:37:07

Seriously. You need to see his statements. This guy is gaslighting you to high heaven.

Have you spoken to him about a joint account? I can imagine his response to that and I imagine that will be very telling as to how he rates you and your child.

Anything you suggested he either refused to do or found an excuse not to do it. Nothing that this guy is saying or doing shows he wants the situation to improve for you. He is very definitely telling you what he is like. Believe him.

How on earth is he spending £380 a month on food shopping, plus you are doing it too, for two people and a breastfed baby?!
When DS was tiny I did our shop for £50 a week.
You need to add up all your essential outgoings (sadly you have to include his loans and CCs in that, but make sure he isn't using CCs any longer) and your total income. Deduct outgoings from income, make all payments from one account (yours probably, I wouldn't get a joint account that he can access and fuck up) and divide what's left equally. Set a food budget per week and stick to it.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 12:46:28

I agree £380 on bread and bits is wtf. That's £95 per week on...what? What has he bought?

You STILL haven't seen his statements! OP you need to see his bank and credit card statements. I bet he has way more debt than he's admitting to.

A nice printed bank statement would also show all his unnecessary spending I bet. Does he get them in the post or has he gone paperless? If he's paperless insist ho logs in so you can see.

You need to keep going with this, don't be fobbed off yet again.

DuelingFanjo Wed 21-Aug-13 12:52:02

"He made a point of saying shopping this month had cost him £380. " Ask him for evidence. How much of this was things you don't use or consume?

Even if he is not able to pay half the mortgage (Which he should) he MUST pay half the utilities/house insurance/car insurance if he uses the car.

He MUST.

How on earth can he even think it's acceptable for him not to?

I suggest that you only ever go shopping together and both take equal cash so you can split the food shopping right down the middle minus any items he or you buy for yourself. Also - Childcare should be included as a household bill and should be split down the middle.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Wed 21-Aug-13 12:52:43

£380 a month on shopping for two of you? What's he buying, gold leaf tea bags? He's taking the piss OP. he has it nice and easy.

Blu Wed 21-Aug-13 12:58:07

I would tell him that as he is sorry, and clearly wants you to be happy, you INSIST on a fair and transparent sharing of resources. Until that is what you have you will not be happy and his apology is meaningless.

Tell him that if you have this household account out of which all food shopping etc comes, then you will both be left with a fair share of the 'disposable' income to spend as you choose and you won't need to bicker over gig tickets and £25-worth of tops.

Tell him that the 'enough is enough' time is NOW - that there is a halfway house between you feeling exploited and financially abused and leaving him, and that is to sort out a fair system NOW.

It's ridiculous to claim that he has spent £380 on incidental shopping for lettuce etc over a month for 2 adults when you are picking up the expensive stuff. And tell him not to be a dickhead about internet shopping - any substitutions you don't like, they take it back and deduct it from the bill.

HIGHLY suspicious that he wouldn't show you his account. And tried to deflect you with a joke.

Love is not about exploiting people.

Blu Wed 21-Aug-13 13:00:06

And how can someone who fails to keep track of £18k be so specific about £380 on food shopping? Did he show you the receipts? I bet he has withdrawn £380 cash and imagined his enormous expenditure on lettuce, but has spent it on other things for himself as the week goes on.

PosyNarker Wed 21-Aug-13 13:01:10

See I don't even think be should have equal 'spends'. He frittered away part of 18k on 'spends' so if anything he should tighten his belt more than you re: gigs, going out etc. At worst it should be equal left over but no way should be have more than you!

Blu Wed 21-Aug-13 13:03:49

Glossy - don't be disheartened by feeling that posters here are criticising you. It's really hard to change entrenched habits, it's hard being brave and changing your own 'issues', it's very hard dealing with people who are manipulative (as your DH is, even if he doesn't realise it or plan it that way).

People get frustrated seeing women treated as you are, angry with the DH involved, and want it to stop NOW - for your benefit.

It isn't always easy...keep your spirits up, your resolve firm and your focus on what you righteously want. You have the right, you are in the right. Good luck.

ratbagcatbag Wed 21-Aug-13 13:04:49

Really suspicious of the refusing to show you statements. There's more debt somewhere.

I'd insist on seeing it, otherwise I'd let him see how easy it is it live somewhere for that money and pay approx £175 in child maintenance every month.

Means you can then claim single person on council tax, eat less food etc, you'd be quids in getting rid of him and have less cleaning and washing to do.

DuelingFanjo Wed 21-Aug-13 13:07:57

highly suspicious that he wouldn't go into his account but knew he had spent £380 on food. Did he know this conversation was coming?

BeCool Wed 21-Aug-13 13:19:25

Glossy on Tuesday you said "I don't think he's hiding anything from me, it's just pure laziness."

After the above conversation (well done BTW) when you were sat there together with computer and he STILL wouldn't be transparent re his finances, do you still believe this to be a true statement?

My XP was the same - knew all his "numbers" so no need to look at bank statements, left me to carry the bulk of family bills etc etc blah blah blah. I could never figure out what the issue was - turns out he was hiding a secret cocaine addiction! Watch out!

I think your H is hiding something important from you - still!

msrisotto Wed 21-Aug-13 13:45:05

Well done for trying your best to sit down and sort this out. Thing is, your post has really highlighted to me how he is trying so very hard to hide his spending habits from you. You wouldn't be the first person on here to be married to a man for however long with no idea that he is in a scary amount of debt that he has been hiding from you. It's either that or he's a dickhead who doesn't want to contribute fairly to his family!

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 13:53:08

Very, very suspicious. Sorry, but I think he is hiding something. The numbers don't add up at all and he tried to laugh it off, turn it into a joke, then got shirty and turned it into a tit-for-tat (well, you bought clothes last month). He had a counter for everything - shopping is expensive, we've always had this arrangement, I never used to contribute.

He likes it this way. He pays next to nothing.

I agree with Blu. Enough is enough needs to be NOW.

'We've always had this arrangement' doesn't work anymore now you have a child. End of.

He shows full transparency and contributes a fair proportion to all household and family expenditures, including childcare on the child he created, too. Non-negotiable.

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 13:54:22

I think he's hiding scary debt, too, and will be nicey nice thinking to lull you into a false sense of security. Then get shirty when you bring it up again, 'Why do you always have to nag about this?' 'Why aren't you happy?' 'We've always had this arrangement.'

Squitten Wed 21-Aug-13 13:56:05

I don't understand why you are putting up with this.

The point at which he refused to show you his bank statements should have been the moment that entire conversation ground to a halt. Considering he has form with debt and lying about it, there is a MASSIVE ALARM flashing over that.

He is HIDING SOMETHING - it might be something small, or it might be absolutely enourmous but there is a reason he won't let you see how he is spending his money and he damn well knows that you won't like it.

Stop being a mug!

marfisa Wed 21-Aug-13 14:03:29

This is a minor point, but what he says about internet shopping is also rubbish. You can choose the "no substitutes" option and then if something you want is not available, you simply don't receive it. Occasionally this means I have to run out to the shop and buy one or two items because they were missing from the online delivery, but it's not too much hassle and ordering the bulk of the shopping online is still vastly more convenient than doing it all in the shop.

Even you allow the "substitutes" option, the delivery person will tell you which items have been substituted, and you can refuse them if you don't want them.

The main point, though, is that your DP is a twat. Sorry.

Absy Wed 21-Aug-13 14:35:48

Apologies if this has been covered already - but you said you tried to add him to the deeds of the house, but this fell through. Any particular reason, e.g. bad credit score, that would give cause for concern?

I agree that just because this is how it's been doesn't mean it's RIGHT or FAIR. He's an adult, he should bloody well manage take responsibility for himself like one.

Spindelina Wed 21-Aug-13 14:36:30

I know you want to think the best of him, which is great. But you really really need to see those bank statements. Either he's hiding something (big or small - it might just be that he's ashamed of his inability to budget) or he doesn't want to show you on principal (which doesn't wash given the history and your need to trust each other and show each other you trust each other).

The shopping bill is very high, and I think that could be your way in without outright accusing him of lying. Offer to help him work out where the money is being spent. If he fesses up to buying too many coffees, follow through with helping him get on top of it. But if he gets cagey, you can get insistent.

LaVitaBellissima Wed 21-Aug-13 14:52:08

I would get yourself a credit check, I think with experian it costs £2 - this will list all credit cards, loans etc linked to your address, it might flag something up.

Phineyj Wed 21-Aug-13 15:09:16

Yes, do do the credit check - I did one a while back and discovered a store card was creating problems as statements had gone to an old address - it might be enlightening and it is so cheap.

Hang in there. You may be able to improve this situation. It is really difficult when you are trying to budget with someone who is crap at budgeting/not interested in it/secretive but it can be done. You cannot continue putting in 4 x what your partner is - outrageous.

It does make me angry when one partner dumps all the responsibility for financial planning on the other, but hey ho.

Blu Wed 21-Aug-13 15:13:49

Also - gaslighthing you - denying the former £300 arrangement shock

Read you post through and see all the differnt ways he tried to head you off course.

It must feel very demoralising talking to someone who does not allow you to be heard. He will sap your energy with this.

Inertia Wed 21-Aug-13 15:54:10

Glossy - good try. I think he is still hiding the truth from you. You need to see actual bank statements.

The gaslighting is a real worry too.

Subs on internet shopping is a total red herring - some have systems which virtually eliminate subs , eg Ocado ( they price match to tesco and it's probably cheaper than shopping several times a week )

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 16:25:22

Hi again.

The credit check is a good idea, I have done them before, but not for about 2 years now so I will do that. Although I thought it doesn't cover anyone at your address, just who you are financially linked to, ie anything in joint names.

I will give him no choice in seeing his statements. I'll tell him to give me his internet banking passwords, so I can check any time. He can have mine if he wants - although not sure why he'd want to.

I will tell him we are giving the internet shopping a try for a couple of months, and I'm not taking no for an answer.

I want a joint account, but not one with both our wages going in. One where we transfer the household bills money into and pay it from there.

The deeds thing fell through because of a previous secured loan (with my ex bf) it needed consolidating in full, before switching the mortgage, which at the time I couldn't do. That loan will be paid off in the next month or so (ex bfs responsibility). Me and DH were approved a new mortgage at the time, so the time of that his credit rating must have been good.

I don't feel criticised, I am grateful for everyones differing views. I would say though, yes if I was reading this post of someone else, I would say get rid of him, he's a freeloading twat, but he's my husband and it's easier said than done.
There are emotions and other practicalities involved. Firstly we chose to be together (for better for worse etc), secondly we had an unplanned child, thirdly, I've always hated the idea of divorce (I would never say never) but ideally it might be nice to have the marriage last at least a year!
At least if it did end, I would know I could financially support myself and my baby.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses...my weakness is finding it hard to say no to people.

I almost feel like saying for him to contribute £400 and I will take care of all the finances including shopping (not personal finances), would that work?

If he's hiding something from me, I would reconsider our marriage as it would be twice he's deceived me...

peggyundercrackers Wed 21-Aug-13 16:27:27

glossy why dont you tell him to give you £400pm that he spends on shopping and that you will do it yourself to save him the hassle of it.

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 16:32:56

Peggy I do like the sound of that idea, and it's a possibility.
I know I will prefer being in total control of the finances, but we should be a team (in a ideal world).

Squitten Wed 21-Aug-13 16:33:44

Do nothing until you see those bank statements. Could well be a game-changer...

BeCool Wed 21-Aug-13 16:38:33

if he isn't financially trustworthy would you be able to open a joint account and trust him NOT to take funds out for himself when he gets into financial pressure? As he would be able to do.

I'd be very wary.

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 16:39:01

'I almost feel like saying for him to contribute £400 and I will take care of all the finances including shopping (not personal finances), would that work?'

If you're happy playing the adult in this relationship, for good. Or, as SGB often puts it, keeping him as a pet.

How that is helping you, I have no idea.

For better, for worse is a two way street because the vows are also about loving, honouring and RESPECTING one another. Being deceitful and gaslighting is not respecting a person.

You need full transparency and both contributing a fair proportion towards everything, otherwise, all you've got is a lodger whom you shag.

Absy Wed 21-Aug-13 16:47:39

You're still being a team, but one that plays to the individuals' strengths and weaknesses. He obviously has an issue with financial planning (and has demonstrated as much), whereas it is something you are stronger on so you should manage it "for the team".

Nanny0gg Wed 21-Aug-13 16:52:56

They're not a team.
Not by any definition I've ever come across.

He's playing you, OP.

Spindelina Wed 21-Aug-13 16:58:59

If you do take all responsibility, make sure this can't be repeated (by accident or design). His credit card limit needs to be £500. He mustn't have an arranged overdraft. Etc.

BeCool Wed 21-Aug-13 17:03:35

'I almost feel like saying for him to contribute £400 and I will take care of all the finances including shopping (not personal finances), would that work?'

Whilst doing this can be a matter of playing to each member of the teams strength, the sting in the tail is when he get pissed off about financial matters, it is all too easy for this anger etc to them be directed towards the family financial controller.

<bitter experience>

BlehPukeVomit Wed 21-Aug-13 17:17:51

Is he 'spending' £380 a month at the supermarket because he is getting cashback ??? hmm

Ie £180 on food and £200 on instant cash

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 17:59:05

Agree with others, you must see the statements. Also £380 on expensive 'bits' picked up from the shop, which is for your own lunch and you cannot construct a meal out of, is not acceptable, it is a luxury someone in so much self inflicted debt cannot afford.

StuntGirl - my point was was based around an assumption OP was going to continue putting up with it when she had said she wasn't.

The idea of him giving you that money may work OP (but you still need to be able to check his finances - he may then go out and get a loan or credit to buy the nice things he is used to as he sounds like he can't see why this has to change and it is soooo unfair etc). And as Expat points out it can feel a bit pet-like. But i do think there is a middle way. I control all finances but i still include my (dyslexic, aspergers) DH in on it. If we need something i will do the research and say 'we need x which costs y' and his face will drain of colour, then i will say the options are 'we do m,n or o - these are the pros and cons of each'. Then we will agree together which one to do. If i just said 'right you are in charge of sorting x', then we'd be in trouble. I know it's not ideal. But it is something you accept with people with SN or challenges in certain areas. People on here find it hard to believe any adult cannot do these things. But i would like to point out all those dc we have with SN/dyslexia/dyscalclia do grow up to become adults, and would you really want someone to never love them because they are bad with money? The key point being if they can acknowledge this and accept support. If not then they are arrogant and the relationship will be hard anyway. If they can then i do think it is worth giving them the opportunity to help themselves and accept they need to relinquish control of some things.

StuntGirl Wed 21-Aug-13 18:08:55

Why are you asking him to contribute just 40% of his income towards living costs? Will you also get to keep 60% of your income to spend how you please?

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 18:14:03

Personally i would check his credit and statements. If all generally okay. Open joint acc. All money goes in, all bills - including his loan repayment, food and phone etc - come out. Then agree to save some and the rest be split. I think he has been too deceptive to trust him any other way. It's the only way that works for us.

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 18:14:30

This man does not have SN, Koala, that is an entirely different discussion, not pertinent to this woman's predicament at all.

This man is deliberately trying to hide something from the OP.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 18:20:15

He has dyslexia which is a massive barrier to understanding finances Expat. Having taught loads of dyslexic children about budgeting etc when i worked with a SENCO i do think it is relevant actually.

And i have agreed he needs to be transparent too. The deception is unacceptable. But from personal experience i know that people can be deceptive if they think they may 'get in trouble' whether they will or not. No one can know till it is all out in the open. People who struggle with finances often have cultivated years of subterfuge and cover ups to hide admitting how hard they find it.

So I do think my post is pertinent actually, but thanks for your always insightful critiques.

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 18:40:07

My husband has severe dyslexia. Oddly enough, it's never been an excuse for financially exploiting a person, gaslighting them and being deceitful.

But thanks for the rather lame attempt at sarcasm.

Bearbehind Wed 21-Aug-13 18:53:04

OP, you would be completely insane to link your finances with this man by opening a joint account until you know the extent of his liabilities. You could have an account in your name which he paid into which would achieve the same purpose without linking you financially.

You can only credit check yourself and this will bring up joint debts but if you don't have anything in joint names, it won't tell you anything. It isn't true that you can see all the debts of people at the same address.

The most disturbing point in your conversation with him was the fact he denied ever paying £300 a month. If he can blatantly lie to you about something you know to be the truth, how much reliance can you place on any other word he utters...........

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:02:08

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 19:02:28

He does have SN, but I agree with expat, there is a huge difference between what he is doing, and what dyslexia might account for.

It is possible he is hugely embarrassed about being crap with money, but that wouldn't explain how he seems to be extremely good at manipulating his wife into thinking she is the one being financially unfair.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but I think he's simply lying to the OP. The story about the MA payments simply doesn't add up - I don't believe for a moment it was a university admin cock-up. Him pulling out precise figures but refusing to show the OP his account also sounds like more lies.

It's fine to be crap at figures, god knows I am. It's fine to be scared because you've run up a debt and you don't know how to get out of the situation. It's not fine to keep lying to your wife when you've been rumbled.

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 19:06:16

Wind your neck in, Koala. Belligerent? You've jumped down other posters on here, saying they were unfair. Yet when someone disagrees with you you get your knickers in a twist.

LOL. It's an internet board, but you're free to get yourself tied in your knot over it as you wish.

I haven't called this OP's spouse any names, but have found his behaviour at extreme fault and pointed that out.

And that's the crux of the matter, not SN or his poor financial capabilities but his behaviour, neither of which SN or poor financial ability is an excuse for.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:08:35

Oh god. I KNOW. (sorry for shouting) Once more for the record. I never said having dyslexia was carte blanche to behave dreadfully. I said it may be why he needs support with finances - end of. His behaviour completely separately to the the day to day finances is totally unacceptable. He needs to be completely apologetic and transparent for the massive fuck ups he has caused - NOT due to dyslexia but, as i said upthread - either arrogance or deceit.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:12:07

Yes belligerent Expat, and often upsetting and offensive. Which is a shame because in amongst the bile is usually very good valid points.

I said StuntGirl was possibly being unfair (hardly jumping down their throat) when she implied the OP was happy to put up with situation (can't scroll back sorry) when the OP was clearly not happy to, she was asking for advice and saying she was definitely going to change it. That is all i said.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:17:09

I didn't get my 'knickers in a twist' about you disagreeing with me i got answered when you told me my point was not pertinent. I think it is, and therefore i defended and explained that view point. The fact that OP has also agreed with me about the challenges of dyslexia possibly being a reason her DH struggles understanding money, also made me think it was relevant.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 19:29:45

But dyslexia doesn't really match up with how he's acting with money, does it?

How would he be able to remember - or claim to remember - a precise figure in his account, if he's unable to notice he's burnt through 18k? And why would he be sure the university admin made a (deeply unlikely) mistake? It doesn't hang together.

Blondeshavemorefun Wed 21-Aug-13 19:31:02

seems very dodgy that he wont show you his bank account

i wouldnt do a joint account with him for the moment as will mean he could take money out of it that you need for bills, plus his bad credit will be linked to you

i also wouldnt put him on the deeds, if you did spilt up your house could become half his

i dont think you should put all your money into one account, pay bills then share the left, you earn a lot more then him

work out bills (as you have) and both put in money but work out % of wages, so maybe both put in 50% of wages, if that would cover it

Euphemia Wed 21-Aug-13 19:32:39

Do NOT let this man on your title deeds until you have seen his bank statements.

ratbagcatbag Wed 21-Aug-13 19:37:01

Ok, I'm sure ill be told this is wrong, but could you get an experian report online in his name? So fill in all the details etc and see what comes up under his name? I'd do it if I was that concerned too see what was happening.

Bearbehind Wed 21-Aug-13 19:41:22

Not sure the OP should do something that is more than likely illegal ratbag- she should just insist on him checking his own report.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:46:42

LRD - I have no idea how this mans dyslexia manifests itself and totally agree his behavior is suspicious. I can see how someone who doesn't understand money would not check their account and keep taking money out without adding it all up. (my ex did this and went horribly overdrawn and said - but i thought money would stop coming out when it ran out). My DH will find it very hard to understand how lots of £30 will add up to £300. He knows the facts, but finds it very hard in reality. And as for the remembering money - I know my DH can only remember certain things which seem 'important' enough to imprint, like one account balance but not all 5 of ours, or one he checked more recently. So he can check the account and remember the number hours later, but will take money out and not do the sums to deduct it - if that makes sense. Or even worse paying on switch - which is a black hole of money. This is why we have just one joint account now.

Both of my dyslexic partners have over relied on 'authority' figures always being correct. So if a uni (or any professional 'company') said they were taking the money out, it would be gospel they had. Then all the rest suerly must be what was left over. Yes it is incredibly frustrating. But not always total bullshit. Of course none of us know if he spent it in some Machiavellian scheme to con OP. I am just saying it isn't totally unheard of for these situations. (i have had a similar one with DH and council tax payments)

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 19:49:37

koala - I don't know how it manifests itself either.

I can see how dyslexia could account for certain aspects of his behaviour, but not the combination of them - that's the point. Yes, he could fail to keep track of money - but surely that would not go with him claiming to know precisely how much he spends now.

It is simply bollocks that the university did what he claims it did.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:53:09

What i would be more concerned about for the OP is with his sense of entitlement to having his money, her DH will then agree to what she says and take out more secret credit to fund what he thinks he should rightfully have. This attitude and his secrecy is the main problem i see here. He needs to really agree with you OP and not just pay you lip service while thinking he knows better. And this attitude of course has nothing to do with dyslexia, just pure childish arrogance. This is why it is important to communicate well and be together in this. If you can't be then there may be more trouble ahead i'm afraid. He needs to really mean it and understand fully when you sort this out.

I do wish you luck OP, but please be careful and protect yourself and your baby too.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 19:59:19

LRD - i thought the OP said she'd checked with the uni and it confirmed in emails that he was telling the truth. Having worked in a few it really wouldn't surprise me to be honest. And yes, if he knows precisely what he spends then he is more aware than he is making out i would predict. Altho i think if i asked my DH why he had spent £150 in a week on lunch he would be horrified and gasp and say no he hadn't. He could then say 'on Monday i spent £8 in starbucks, £12 in pret, £6 at the station and £4 in marks...' and repeat the for 5 days and then say 'but i haven't spent £150' confused It makes me want to repeatedly smash my face against the wall - which is why we both get cash out for each week and live on that.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 20:05:59

Excuse me if that's true.

I must admit, I'm confused - the university wouldn't be allowed to communicate with her, so I don't see how she could have checked. confused

What you describe with your DH doesn't sound at all the same to me. You said he'd be horrified and surprised - the OP's DH has responded calmly with the exact amounts he spent, and is only claiming surprise when it comes to the bills she paid.

OP, it breaks my heart to think of you scrimping and saving and bankrolling God knows whatever your husband. Being made to account for fucking ASDA tops while he keeps his whole fucking salary, bar some milk and bread? Utterly revolting.

You are going back to full-time rather than part-time brutal shiftwork (nursing?) when your baby is only six months old because he is unwilling to take care of his own child.

Why do you think so little of yourself?

Your little baby thinks the world of you. Do you want the roof taken from over her head one day by this disrespectful freeloader? His actions do not evince any real love for either of you (sorry).

Please see a lawyer. You need someone impartial but on your side to help you understand how precarious your situation is.

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 20:25:17

I just want to quickly clarify that it was definitely a mistake on the university's part.
The only reason I found out it hadn't been paid was that I saw an email from the university to inform DH and his replies of how it was going to be paid back.
This was about 4 months into his course, I found out a couple of months after that. I didn't communicate directly with the university myself.

So unless he created an email from the university and sent it to himself and replied to himself, just in case I did find it then it was the university's cock up.

Unless of course because of the cock up he couldn't continue his course and didn't actually complete it...but then I accompanied him when he had his final work to be handed in so I really don't think he would be THAT sneaky.

And he got home from work tonight I just casually said I wanted his banking passwords so I can check the outgoings and he simply said "ok". No arguments or excuses! I said he can have mine too and he said he doesn't need mine, as I thought.

I do value everyone's opinions so thank you smile

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 20:25:35

LRD - i thought she had seen their correspondence with him sorry. emails confirming their mistake she said i think. And yes dh may be horrified now, but it took years of him being adamant that was normal and what everyone spends. He would be more horrified it added up to that, than feel bad for spending it. he sees it as just normal necessities and that there is no alternative.

MrsKoala Wed 21-Aug-13 20:26:35

x post smile

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 20:33:09

glossy - ah, I'm sorry, I'd understood it as being that they'd let him know after he finished. 4 months in I can certainly understand, and I'm sorry I misunderstood before.

But - so he spent 18k in 4 months?! Seriously, this just gets worse and worse.

I am really, really glad he's given you his passwords, and I hope it all turns out to be possible to sort. Best of luck.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 21-Aug-13 20:33:44

Let's wait and see if he gives you the password. Does he only have one account?

How much were his course fees? Yes perhaps the uni cocked up but he should have realised before he spent the money, which I'm assuming was a significant amount!

Bearbehind Wed 21-Aug-13 20:40:16

OMFG- he'd spent the £18k in 4 months!

Seriously glossy re-read your posts as if you were an outsider and you'll see how badly you are being treated.

Insist on getting his passwords tonight. Him agreeing to your 'casual' request is a very long way from him actually coming up with the goods.

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 20:40:36

I can't remember how much the course fees were but it was a good few thousand.
Yes 18k in a matter of months but he did consolidate a large ish loan and he bought books, equipment and train travel for his lectures too so technically he didn't waste away 18k. How much exactly I'm not sure but at least 7k by my estimation.

LittleBearPad Wed 21-Aug-13 20:41:01

No I'm sorry - MAs are expensive he took out a loan in part to pay for it and yet he didn't notice that he hadn't paid several thousand pounds to the university but carried on spending!!

If the university made a mistake then it was his responsibility to hold onto his fees (not spend them)

My DSis was overpaid benefits. She told the DWP that she wasn't entitled to them, they ignored her. She put the overpayment into a saving account until they wanted it back which they've now realised the do.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Wed 21-Aug-13 20:47:04

Even if only £7k was spent on the loan consolidation, books, train fares etc, that still leaves £11k from £18k, right? So wtf has he done with that?!

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 20:50:19

glossy, I get what you're saying and I can totally imagine his fees might well have been 7k or more. And that he had train fares etc.

What worries me here is, it sounds as if he has an explanation for everything - but you were living together at this stage, right? And yet you don't know exactly where a loan of 18 thousand pounds went, except that (as a couple) you are still paying it off.

That is not right.

ChasedByBees Wed 21-Aug-13 20:54:48

Haven't read all the thread, but I've got as far as your post saying you do the housework, look after the baby (as well as pay for everything). You may love him but he will ruin you. Eventually you will tire of being the only responsible one doing everything (potentially when trying to juggle a job and a home life when you want to be at home with your baby). He will saddle you with debt, take half your house and leave you with all the responsibilities. Although if he is the 'SAHD' even in name (even if he's crap at it) he may also leave with custody of your child too.

Please - if you're going to stay with him - you have to safeguard your future financially. See a solicitor and talk through possible outcomes.

I just can't get over how he goes to gigs and you can't afford a haircut when you've bankrolled him for so long. And you're going back to work sooner than you want - that is time you will NEVER get back because he wants your income and isn't prepared to pull his weight in any way. How can you bear to look at him? He's a disgrace.

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 20:59:02

kitty sorry I meant the other way around, he spent the 11k already and wasted about 7k. Still not acceptable i know.

LRD yes he has an explanation/excuse for everything. And we were living together at that point yes.

I have told him that the loan, although I know he has to pay it, doesn't impact on what he should pay for household expenditure. Even if he lived back with his parents he'd still have to contribute toward the costs of living as well as pay back his loans.

I haven't got his banking passwords yet but I will make sure I get them.
He had only one current account and one credit card. The credit card statement is by post, which I open and file because he just leaves them laying around unopened.
There's been nothing major on the credit card statements that I have seen.

ChasedByBees Wed 21-Aug-13 21:03:17

Ok have now caught up. I'm not even going to comment on the gas lighting.

He was shocked by your true outgoings, saw how it was going to leave you in financial difficulty but his first thoughts were not shame at how he's been taking the piss but arguments about how/why it should be prolonged. It's always been this way, you bought clothes. Come on. Are you really not angry at him? I am.

ChasedByBees Wed 21-Aug-13 21:05:06

Also, there would be no shame in a marriage lasting less than a year - particularly if it meant you kept the house and safeguarded your child's future.

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 21:07:00

Yes I am angry with him and pissed off.

Squitten Wed 21-Aug-13 21:09:27

So.... have the passwords manifested yet? If not, why not? Go and get them!

ChasedByBees Wed 21-Aug-13 21:12:41

Sorry if I sound harsh. I just think it sounds like he's using you big time, intentionally or not

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 21:13:33

Not yet squitten... He got home from work, cooked our tea. He ate his tea while I settled the baby to bed. She's a bit unsettled as she had her vaccinations today, so it took longer. I'm now eating my tea. DH is in the bath. After tea I desperately need to express as my boobs are about to burst! Then I will get the passwords as soon as we manage to sit down together. I'll let you know the outcome!

glossyflower Wed 21-Aug-13 21:14:26

Not at all, I appreciate the input smile

Bearbehind Wed 21-Aug-13 21:17:44

So he has successfully avoided you since you made your request, I'm betting he mysteriously falls asleep on the bed when he gets out of the bath.

Inertia Wed 21-Aug-13 21:25:50

Good point Bear.

My money's on an urgent supermarket trip which absolutely won't wait until tomorrow.

Keep being tenacious Glossy smile

Squitten Wed 21-Aug-13 21:27:03

I thought much the same Bear...

Let's hope we're wrong!

Repeatedlydoingthetwist Wed 21-Aug-13 21:36:36

Oh OP PLEASE make sure you get the passwords ASAP. Your whole thread makes me feel just awful for you.

expatinscotland Wed 21-Aug-13 21:39:34

glossy, make sure he gives you the passwords!

Charlesroi Wed 21-Aug-13 21:50:59

Yes, I'll bet the £380 shopping budget includes the cost of buying coffees and lunches, newspapers etc.
I really don't think you should have to do this, but get him to give you the 'shopping money' + £50 and do it online. Buy stuff he can use to make his lunches. I bet you'll have plenty left over for your spending money.

MistressDeeCee Wed 21-Aug-13 22:01:12

I found this post truly sad. That this man would blatantly use a woman in this way, and just expect to get away with it. Im never quick to say LTB..but on this occasion I do feel that way. Let him see that it will cost him far, far more than £300 monthly to maintain himself in this world. But I have a mind, he'd just find another woman to leech from. I cannot bear meanminded, meanspirited men at all. OP I think you will get fed up of him soon enough, as you can do so much better for yourself.

laeiou Wed 21-Aug-13 22:05:34

Just to add my voice to the others saying don't open a joint account with him. You could setup a standing order from his account to yours, and pay the bills from your account. Don't give him the opportunity of raiding the joint account. It'll be too tempting.

Also, if you've only been married recently, less than a year, he's treating you incredibly badly. There's no sign of him wanting to change. It might be useful to find our your rights. I am concerned that you could end up with your home remortgaged to the hilt soon, all your careful planning down he drain and our child basically growing up worse off than if you were a single parent. Honestly, he's doing this sort of stuff in the first year? Where's his respect for you, his self-respect?

laeiou Wed 21-Aug-13 22:06:55

your child, not our child smile

Bearbehind Wed 21-Aug-13 22:07:40

glossy what was the theory behind him doing an MA in the first place?

Taking out an £18k loan to study then only earning £16k a year at the end of it is far from ideal.

Did he complete the course? Has he done anything about looking for a better paid job in light of his new qualification?

CorrineFoxworth Wed 21-Aug-13 22:27:34

Have to agree with ChasedByBees - this man has the potential to ruin you. Happened to me and my DD. My house, my career, credit-rating, gone for good. Eleven years later and there is a tiny chance he might start paying more than £1.80 per week via the CSA.

I wish you all the best.

MistressDeeCee Wed 21-Aug-13 22:46:25

You'd have to treat a man like that as if he was an irresponsible child. Wrestling control of finances from him, keeping a beady eye on all incomings & outgoings whilst he isnt prepared to pull his weight, etc. Its a complete romance killer. OP whether you eventually get him to leave or he leaves of his own accord, its likely he will make a financial claim on you/house. Mean-ness such as his is a terrible trait. 'straightbananas' has given good advice re. the reality of what could happen here. As said before..you can do so much better than a man like this

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Wed 21-Aug-13 22:49:43

bear, it's not unusual for a university to refuse to let you graduate until you pay off all loans.

UseHerName Wed 21-Aug-13 22:53:58

i would add this joker's name to the deeds of my house!!!!

UseHerName Wed 21-Aug-13 22:54:45

would NOT ADD this joker's name to the deeds of my house!!!!! not

mumofweeboys Wed 21-Aug-13 23:02:00

I have a muppet of oh who hid debt ect but I have trained him and it has got better. I would also get his credit file to make sure everything is good before linking yourself financially on paper.

lottiegarbanzo Wed 21-Aug-13 23:36:18

I just thought I'd note that our entire monthly shopping bill is £380 and while I'm a bit careful, we're not struggling and do buy some luxuries. That's for me, DP and toddler dd and includes all food, alcohol, cleaning and household products and baby stuff (we use reusable nappies in the day, so some saving there).

That's deliveries from asda and ocado and all the bits I buy locally. I know there are threads on here all about shopping bills and thrifty tips, I just thought the coincidence worth mentioning.

Retroformica Thu 22-Aug-13 03:45:17

You have supported him through college and now post college. He should be ensuring you take a full year off on maternity leave and then also ensuring you only return part time. Presently he is being very selfish and using you. In fact I'd probably give him an ultimatum. Sit down and discuss money now and make a proper contribution now OR go live somewhere else. You should have the same amount if spare money left in your account after paying all bills.

LessMissAbs Thu 22-Aug-13 04:09:35

Op you have got your head buried in the sand about this. You are actually enabling your dh to be irresponsible. Do you think he loves you, when he is so selfish towards you? Or does he just love the lifestyle you provide him with?

When you get fed up with him, five or ten years down the line, he will have a good claim on your house and possibly worse. You really need an outside perspective on this to drive it home. Would you not consider one appointment with a solicitor to give you a neutral opinion?

I cannot think why it is better to be with a man you have to pay to be with you (which is what you are effectively doing) than single. Unless he has you under control, perhaps not intentionally, but you seem very willing to let this happen. Sometimes you need to stand up for yourself. And for your dc's future!

MistressDeeCee Thu 22-Aug-13 04:19:48

Well said, LessMissAbs

appointment with a solicitor to give a neutral opinion is an excellent idea.

As is thinking about dc's future as its not just about the adults here

I really hope OP isnt setting herself up for disaster here

Retroformica Thu 22-Aug-13 04:20:24

Don't let him be a house husband, he will have a claim on your house if you split. He is clearly wanting a free ride and is useless with money. He likes you to look after the baby, likes you to keep the house and likes you to pay the bills. He shouldn't be frittering his money away on records etc.

glossyflower Thu 22-Aug-13 07:12:37

We he gave me the password - initially two of the digits were the wrong way round but he didn't protest when I told him. (Mixing things up like that is a regular occurrence for him to do).
I checked his statement for the last 4 months and there is nothing I can see of any concern. It really is lots of smaller payments in supermarkets and the occasional payment to amazon or eBay.
Bear in mind he's only just this month started earning £1100. Previously he was bringing home £800 approx.

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 22-Aug-13 07:27:36

Glad you got the password and nothin seemed to jump out at you

You need to organise a dd to your account each month for bills and food - def do online

No one wants to think about leaving their partner esp if you love them - but what is happening to you can't carry on - you will get into debt slowly each month and eventually if dh doesn't pay you could end up losing your home (extreme but a possibility) if you can't afford everything

Bearbehind Thu 22-Aug-13 07:35:01

Glad you got the passwords although the fact that he is frittering away his wages is still scary. In a way it would almost be better if he did have a monthly commitment which reduced his disposable income. Instead he clearly believes he deserves his salary to be for things he wants to have.

That is just mean, which I think is one of the absolute worst traits anyone can have.

What were his aspirations when doing his MA as he doesn't seem to have made it very far up the career ladder since doing it?

I know further education isn't all about earning more but it is about improving your life, which he seems to have done, to a certain extent, but at your expense.

glossyflower Thu 22-Aug-13 08:04:32

His MA is in creative music technology and he is working on film production doing the audio and film scores.
He's done two films and he's working on the third film. He's also recorded and produced several albums and has been abroad to record small festivals and gigs.
Unfortunately it's one of those careers that to begin with you earn next to nothing and it hopefully will improve with time; which is why he needs a full time paying job as well.

Spindelina Thu 22-Aug-13 08:28:05

He was surprised at your outgoings, and seems like he's got nothing in particular to hide. I get what everyone is saying about guarding your interests and those of your child, particularly not opening a joint account. But I suspect he's just crap with money, and never been forced to accept that. Spending the loan was the university's fault, not his, after all! He may be in denial, being forced to confront reality.

My suggestion would be to find time to go through the last few months of statements (yours and his) and write down what has been spent on what. Then add in any big one-offs not in the statements. Between you, decide on a budget going forward (whether you decide to have spending money equal, proportional to income, equal minus loan repayments, whatever. Just agree it.)

Then (and only then) decide how you are going to achieve this - what money comes into which account, where are bills paid from, should you restrict yourself to spending only cash and if so how much do you take out and when, do you need a per-item consultation limit.

If he goes along with it and you make it work - hooray! Starting with spending the limited amount of cash in his pocket, he might get more of a handle on budgeting, you never know. And if it doesn't work or he sabotages it, you can decide what to do then.

laeiou Thu 22-Aug-13 09:50:42

I thought the MA might be this sort of thing. OP it sounds like he's a dreamer, success is always just nearly in reach. I think you'll find he's going to continue living like a single person if you allow him to avoid his responsibilities. The lifestyle he wants is fine but he had a family. So you get to shorten your maternity leave and work more hours and have less disposable income because it's more important that he follows his dream than you do, and his dream isn't realistic with a baby. If he agrees to cut down on spending and be responsible I think you'll find its short-lived. He needs to buy music, attend concerts etc for his career! Why are you bring so unreasonable! You have never supported him! You used to be exciting, now you just talk about not having money for nappies.... I fear it'll wear you down.

laeiou Thu 22-Aug-13 09:53:28

OP I may sound harsh but I say this with some knowledge of working in the business.

scallopsrgreat Thu 22-Aug-13 10:05:11

glossy, just moving away from the finances thing for a bit (I'm glad that there was nothing too untoward there. It must be a relief) but the way you described how you spent last night is another telling sign of his view on the world. He was sat having his dinner whilst you were trying to settle your baby. You eventually got to eat and he went and had a bath. You then had to express and then sort out finances. He did...well what he wanted and didn't really help you at all. Do you really want to live with someone who is prepared to go and have a bath whilst you are running around sorting out your child, the food, your financial lives? It shows massive amounts of disrespect.

BeCool Thu 22-Aug-13 10:11:59

I work in the music biz too OP (for 26 years now) - specifically with producers.

There are a lot of people with BA's and MA's in all kinds of music biz related areas. It can be a very hard place to make a living especially on the creative side. Yes if you do OK you can earn a good living. But for every one person that does well there are plenty who don't.

Whatever he is doing is actually irrelevant WRT his finances though. he must pay he way - end of. At the moment he is hugely taking to piss.

How are you getting on re the maternity leave? have you worked out you can take the longer leave you want if he pays his way? have you confronted him about that? Or are you still seething inside?

If you can take those extra months please do - they won't come round again.

Inertia Thu 22-Aug-13 12:15:08

In a year's time mountains will still be there to climb. Campsites will still be there. Bands will still be playing gigs.

You have just one opportunity for maternity leave with this baby.

As a family you need to establish what the family priorities are and plan finances accordingly.

glossyflower Thu 22-Aug-13 12:15:55

scallops yes well that is an everyday occurrence in our house on a weekday evening. Although he did ask me if I minded he have a bath.

becool Realistically I can't go back part time, although I could do part time and just do bank shifts (yes I'm a nurse in a hospital) as when I please.

laeiou yes I agree, it will wear me down which is why I told him things need to change starting now.

To be honest, I have decided to go back full time to begin with, so I can get back on my feet and save so by the time next baby comes along I can take the whole year off with both children.

He apologised again to me last night, he said he was so defensive about it because of the way I told him, rather than what I told him.

Here's hoping we can work things out from now on.

BeCool Thu 22-Aug-13 12:25:09

"he was so defensive about it because of the way I told him, rather than what I told him."
Ah so it's YOUR fault OP.
Thought so hmm

glossyflower Thu 22-Aug-13 12:32:52

Hmmm....I just logged onto to his online banking account again and I can't log on, I got locked out.
Either I inputted the wrong details (twice) or he's changed it.
I just texted him to ask if he's changed it or not.

ChasedByBees Thu 22-Aug-13 12:35:04

I hope things improve for you OP and that he can become more responsible.

I realised that I had such a visceral reaction last night as the situation reminded me of my ex. I was a student and my boyfriend worked but somehow I was the one who paid all the bills and rent - he was never quite organised enough to have the money. He also wouldn't eat unless I cooked - he was so laid back it just didnt occur to him. Things he said showed that he also thought all the housework was my responsiblilty (on the odd occasion he washed up he'd say things like, "I've done the washing up for you ")

He acted like a total man child and by the time I ended it I was in debt, I moved out and found new deposits (as he was of course too hopeless to arrange anything) and the stress left me with agoraphobia which took an age to get over.

I also was a bit of a rescuer and took responsibility for others. It didnt help me or him though.

I still feel a huge amount of resentment towards him and myself for putting up with it.

Anyway, that was my situation and I apologise for being strong in my reaction. I hope that you can make this work. He will need to change - you can't make him so he needs to want to do it. I do wonder if he can do that because its the right thing or whether he'll need the threat of consequences. I hope he can do it because its the right and respectful way to behave.

ChasedByBees Thu 22-Aug-13 12:35:42

X post. Not good.

glossyflower Thu 22-Aug-13 13:03:14

He's just replied to say he hasn't changed it and to be careful in case it gets blocked. Oops too late.
Maybe it was my mistake he said when he gets home tonight he will sort it out.

Jan49 Thu 22-Aug-13 13:16:59

OP, please be careful. I think you need to be distrustful of everything he says regarding money. It's not your fault for raising the subject and he may have now conveniently changed his passwords. Please don't just take what he says at face value. He's got an excuse for everything.sad

StuntGirl Thu 22-Aug-13 13:40:47

So he's shite with money. Well, you already knew that grin

Budget time. Seriously. Go on Money Saving Expert, or just Google it and download one. Amend it to your personal circumstances. You both need to be paying equal or pro rata amounts to cover all essential living costs. That's non-negotiable and he has to agree to that. The you both need to put some in savings. Then you both get to split what's left, either equally or pro rata, however you decide to do it.

He will find it difficult to budget at first if he's never done it before, but it gets easier. In our house we work out what we need to spend for the month ahead out of of 'spends' (and spending money is drawn out on pay day so we have no reason to add anything on our cards, it's very easy to keep spending on your card).

So for example, in September we have one birthday night out for a friend, two events, and a staff leaving do to go to. We know those are coming so we allocate our money accordingly, and try to make sure we have enough left over for other things that crop up throughout the month. Sometimes we don't have enough left over to do things like random trips to the pub or cinema, but that's life sometimes.

I hope you can get something sorted. It's incredibly unfair for you to shoulder the burden of all financial responsibility while he gets to spend the majority of his (extremely decent) wages on himself.

I'm getting out my crystal ball. He will try to convince you that you locked his account, that is terrible and maybe you shouldn't have the passwords again.

If I'm right, call my Mystic Terry from now on.

glossyflower Thu 22-Aug-13 14:14:23

Lol. I will let you know!

Darkesteyes Thu 22-Aug-13 14:15:35

I dont know about anybody else but if it was me having to micro manage someone to this extent would be a complete turn off.
IMO he is being financially abusive.

oscarwilde Thu 22-Aug-13 14:16:02

Have read the whole thread and you've had some great and really useful feedback. I'd just like to make some observations.

The FAIR outcome of all of this in a normal healthy relationship is that after household expenses you have the same "spends" on a monthly basis. As your respective incomes increase or decrease, your respective spends do too.

You are married and a team in theory at least. Practice is another thing altogether whether by design, deceit or incompetence. As your respective incomes increase or decrease, your respective spends do too.

However, there are other considerations before signing up to equal spends:
Does he deserve it and why should you contribute even more than you currently do in a relationship of unequal contribution and gaslighting?

He has been financially incompetent and spanked a substantial amount of money up the wall. Repayment of that should come out of his "spends" for the foreseeable. You might need to adjust his disposable income slightly so he has something to live off but only slightly. Let him get some overtime/bar work/wedding video editing/ whatever if necessary to bring in some extra cash. Only by dealing with the pain threshold of having little or no spare cash will there be any incentive for him to work harder, or do childcare to offset the cost to the family and square things up a little.

He makes little contribution at home if you are doing all the childcare and household stuff "because you are on mat leave". I see posters on here every day discussing the difficulties of getting childcare as a nurse doing shift work. Start doing some careful planning now so that he does not become a SAHD. It doesn't sound like it would be a healthy answer for either of you.

He is a financial moron to put it nicely. A fritterer. Someone who spends the "change" and wonders where it has all gone by the end of the week. Plenty of people are like this - there are techniques to improving their behaviour - hand him £50 in cash a week and that's his limit. That coffee in Starbucks is going to look pretty pricey if he has to save for a Glastonbury ticket out of £50 a week. Only do shopping on line. No cashback Etc etc. You get the picture. You will get plenty of people on here telling you to LT Manchild but there are thousands of women and men all over the country who manage all the family finances because their other half is an idiot with money. You can take up the reins without being a financial abuser. Whether or not you want to take on this role in your marriage will point you towards it's likely success.

You are already planning another child with this man and that's when you will take your full mat leave? If he were not about would you be taking your full year now? Be financially better off ? Unless you want to be a single mum of 2, tread carefully until you are happy that he is wising up and growing up to his financial and parental responsibilities.

Darkesteyes Thu 22-Aug-13 14:16:19

YY TerryPratchett i was thinking EXACTLY the same.

Whoknowswhocares Thu 22-Aug-13 15:04:11

He's just replied to say he hasn't changed it and to be careful in case it gets blocked. Oops too late.
Maybe it was my mistake he said when he gets home tonight he will sort it out.

.
Oh yes OP, you can put money on it being your mistake. Not his money, obviously. Just your own.

Inertia Thu 22-Aug-13 15:11:06

Be careful in case it gets blocked.

Wow, he's good. For somebody so apparently inept, he's set this up so that you are locked out and it appears to be your fault and he'll insist that you can't be trusted with the passcodes again.

Dude. He changed the passwords.

expatinscotland Thu 22-Aug-13 15:33:58

Wow! I wish I could be more positive here, glossy, but if you only knew how common a scenario this is . . .

I agree, Inertia, this guy's pretty good.

lottiegarbanzo Thu 22-Aug-13 15:56:43

You can only have been locked out if he gave you the wrong password, or changed it - that's blatantly obvious, isn't it?

I think you should present him with a list of his costs of living as a single man. Much higher than paying half your shared living costs, or a his share proportional to income. Make that the start of a conversation about the benefits and responsibilites of family life.

I'd certainly treat his debt as pre-spent 'fun' money because it was, so that's the budget line it comes out of. on his side only. All this crap about books and train commutes. He'd budgeted for those before he signed up for his course and agreed his loan. Then he pissed away his course fees and the extra £5k you know he didn't need. He did that, not the bank or the university (but go on, I dare him to try to persuade them they were responsible and should give it back!).

lottie since she got in last time, he has changed the password. While he was out. Then she tries the old password and it doesn't work. But I'm cynical.

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 22-Aug-13 16:17:49

Sounds like he has changed the password - sometimes I put in the wrong code on phone fat fingers and I've never been locked out - even if put in 3/5 times -- never good to do online banking when need manicure lol--

When dh comes home - get him to try logging on in front of you with the password you both know

MrsKoala Thu 22-Aug-13 18:28:38

oh dear sad

He actually sounds quite savvy OP.

Bearbehind Thu 22-Aug-13 19:07:31

Just reading this thread makes me weary. OP can you really be bothered to spend your time wondering whether this financially irresponsible manchild has changed his banking passwords?

I know I would have better things to do if i had a small chid and was approaching the end of mat leave.

No adult should expect to be bank rolled by someone else, especially if they have a wife and child to think of.

Personally I couldn't be arsed to try and change him because, deep down, his moral fibre is shite. His beliefs are totally unreasonable and he'll probably never change.

If you do want to try and make it work you need to insist he pays a realistic proportion of the household expenses. If he doesn't like it- you know what you need to do.......

lottiegarbanzo Thu 22-Aug-13 19:24:44

Yes I got that MrsTerry, I was really responding to OP's 'maybe my mistake' by saying it blatantly cannot be (so how could she think that?).

OP, how could it be? When people mis-type things it's an unpredictable slip, or memory block and they do it once, then are extra careful. How very, very weird that he would have such a high expectation of you mis-typing a simple password that he warned you about getting locked out - something you'd have to mis-type it numerous times to achieve - nobody does that when reading from the password written down in front of them, no-one.

Stop believing him when he tells you you're stupid / wrong / perpetually at fault in his life. You aren't!

CorrineFoxworth Thu 22-Aug-13 19:31:26

You are very optimistic OP, to be planning DC2 with this sorry excuse for a man.

Perhaps the time has come to accept that as a couple, you have very different plans.

MistressDeeCee Thu 22-Aug-13 19:50:28

Agree with 'Bearbehind'..all sounds just too much hard work I dont know how the OP can be bothered to keep up with it all. This man is a user and a gameplayer..if having a partner & dc hasnt made him change and re-evaluate then nothing will. How unpleasant to live with. OP I hope you cut your losses so you can meet someone worth your time. This man's games are tiring, and tiresome..life's too short.

laeiou Thu 22-Aug-13 20:14:47

OP you sound like a very caring, thoughtful person. Nursing was probably an easy career choice.

Your DH sounds like he's immature and while he happily lets you be the grown-up in many respects (doing all the hard work), he'll probably act even more immature when confronted with the reality that you're supposed to be in a partnership.

If his attitude about finances is to avoid faking with it, talking about it etc, then do the it's not fair routine,maybe you have to accept that this is showing his true values. Aside from learning difficulties etc and some mental health issues etc, I don't buy his "I'm no good with money!" excuse. I think he's perfectly capable of finding money for his priorities, and that he is showing you where his priorities lie. Having a second child without resolving this current situation is legitimising the status quo. You've no chance of changing things later, it must be now.

laeiou Thu 22-Aug-13 20:17:01

Agh! Avoid faking with it - avoid dealing with it.

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 22-Aug-13 23:44:50

So what happened when dh got home

Did he manage to log on? Did he do it front of you!

Gruffalump Fri 23-Aug-13 08:15:53

Any further news?

Sounds like henis trying to hide something for sure

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 10:00:37

No news but my own fault really.
When he got home from work I told him to take the baby and put her to bed whilst I finished tea and put my feet up with a glass of wine.
The wine gave me the most enormous migraine so I went to bed. Woke up with it this morning but feel better now.
That'll teach me for wanting to relax confused
But then he didn't mention it either.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Fri 23-Aug-13 13:07:01

Ask him tonight then. That gives you the whole Bank Hol weekend to sit down, sort out a budget, set up DDs, order an online shop, and sort this whole sorry mess out once and for all.

And of course he's not going to mention it - why should he? He's living the life of riley and pulling the wool well and truly over your eyes. Demand that it's sorted this weekend, or tell him to move out, reminding him that it would be much more expensive to pay his own rent, food, bills, debts and CSA on top off all that when if you live apart.

As a fellow wine-induced migraine sufferer (and chocolate induced, tiredness induced...) here's some thanks and sulphite free wine to try.

He will drop this if you do so you have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Bakingtins Fri 23-Aug-13 14:14:25

I think you should see a lawyer about protecting your interests, even if you have no intention of splitting up.
DH and I bought a house together just before we married. We each had a house to sell, I sold mine so my equity was the deposit on our new house. The solicitor drew up a document which stated what shares we each held in the house in the event of a split before he was able to put his equity in from the sale of his own house. When you are contributing so unequally financially it makes sense to protect yourself.
But of course it is all going to be different from this weekend, no?
We have over 10 years and varying circumstances (I've worked full time, part time and been on mat leave) paid our salaries into a joint account which pays all the bills and gives us each equal spending money. In your shoes I'd keep the bills account in your name only so he can't empty it. You need to work out how much you need to cover bills and debts, if possible save a bit each month for unexpected household expenses, then split the rest equally for you both to save or spend on clothes, amazon, gig tickets etc without the need to justify it to the other. I think probably if you are going to stay with him you'll have to treat his debt as joint and work towards paying it off, though really it should be his responsibility. He needs to grow up - paying mortgage, bills, food and childcare comes way higher in a parent's priorities than gig tickets.
Then you can start work on sorting out his unequal contribution in other areas.....

petalsandstars Fri 23-Aug-13 14:31:23

My DH can't see past the current account balance and think about what is still due to come out. I got sick of constantly telling him no so made him do the budget instead. It has not worked out well and he prefers me to be in charge of it so I've had it back now but he understands that when I say we can't afford it I do mean it.

I don't think that would work in your case to let him sort it out so it will fall to you to do it so it is fair. Not so you have nothing, there may be tears and threats but he will also need to stop tantrumming like a child as the money has gone.

sunshinemeg Fri 23-Aug-13 14:39:22

Not read the whole thread but based on OP comments I can share what myself and DH do.
We are both paid into our own accounts. There is then a joint account that covers all the bills, mortgage, and a set amount for food each week. DH then calculated the % of our salary that had to go into pay the balance each month. He puts in more as he earns more, but we both pay in 67% of our salaries. What's left in own accounts is ours to spend as we want. Works well as there is no arguing grin

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 20:53:56

Hi everyone.
I know you are probably bored to death of this thread but tonight I told him we need to sit together and sort out his banking password business.
Guess what....
He said he can't let me see his statements just yet as there's a secret not a bad one I can't know about yet.
I was miffed to say the least. I know you think this is not surprising at all.
And even though I saw his statements two nights ago. I asked him when he realised I couldn't see this surprise as he didn't mention it at the time of giving me his password.
I told him he has to tell my mum what this secret is so she can decide if its good or bad. I don't know why I said that I should have insisted he show me right away.
He said I have to trust him on this and don't I trust him?
I said no I don't!
He's also talking about getting another loan to consolidate his loan, credit card, my credit card and my overdraft. He'll be paying the same amount over a longer period of time.
...
I just don't know what to think so I have come to bed sad

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 20:55:17

Oh and with this new loan he said he could contribute to the household bills more as effectively he'll be paying less each month.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 23-Aug-13 21:01:33

Another secret sad we kinda guessed that sad

I'm assuming more debt - I'm hoping not a dd to csa or something like that - why can't he tell you

So he wants to get out ANOTHER loan to consolidate all his debts AGAIN - to pay less a month but over more years - so more debt

Doing this may work as then can pay towards your house /bills - he still sorts out his loan and he learns to be better with money

SoftKittyWarmKitty Fri 23-Aug-13 21:13:52

Consolidation only works if you stop spending. He won't - you can guarantee it - so he'll build debt back up again, in addition to having the consolidation loan.

He's LIED to you YET AGAIN, by saying that YOU must have messed up the passwords when in reality HE has changed them! He's probably glad you've gone to bed as he's got away with lying and fobbing you off again. You need to DEMAND he ones his bank account(s) otherwise he needs to leave - now.

It's time to get tough, OP.

Bearbehind Fri 23-Aug-13 21:14:20

This is a horrible situation for you to be in glossy but this guy is up to no good.

He thinks he's a player but he's not even very good at that.

I would bet my bottom dollar that whatever your 'surprise' is, he thought of it about 5 minutes after you rumbled him.

In a normal, loving marriage the husband does not expect to live the life of a single man at the expense of his wife and to the detriment of his family.

Ths guy is a gobshite and involving your Mum in his games is likely to end in tears.

Tell him to shove his 'surprise' up hs arse and either pay his way or fuck off.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Fri 23-Aug-13 21:14:52

*opens his bank account, not ones his bank account

FriskyHenderson Fri 23-Aug-13 21:15:35

Oh dear sad That's another excuse isn't it. Is he gambling? Where else could the money be going?

Bearbehind Fri 23-Aug-13 21:19:23

Just re-read your last two posts

He'll be paying the same amount over a longer period of time.

Then

He said he could contribute to the household bills more as effectively he'll be paying less each month

How does that work then?

He is talking shit.

lottiegarbanzo Fri 23-Aug-13 21:19:23

Well, it's not a savings plan for your Christmas present is it.

Same payments, longer time = bigger debt.

Do the sums, in full, calculate total cost. He doesn't sound able to think hat through.

DarceyBissell Fri 23-Aug-13 21:20:26

Why oh why are you putting yourself through all this OP? I am so incoherent with rage I can hardly type. He is abusing you and is a total bastard. Get rid or you will regret it all your life.

notanyanymore Fri 23-Aug-13 21:23:31

He sounds like he's sponging off you tbh. And like he really needs to grow (and man) up!

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 21:25:39

OP this is financial abuse Please do not put up with this. HE HAS changed the password deliberately.
Tell him that this constitutes unreasonable behaviour and that as he is continuing to disrespect and abuse you that he better pack his bags and bugger off. What a fucking selfish prick.

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 21:27:29

Well spotted Bearbehind. OP he is contradicting himself and gaslighting you.

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 21:29:54

He'll be paying the same each month but over a longer period of time because he's consolidating his credit card. So when I said the same I meant same as his big loan of just under £400. His credit card is £170 so he has £170 extra per month (but over a longer period of time. IYSWIM).
He's also be consolidating my debts so I would effectively have less to pay each month too.

Bearbehind Fri 23-Aug-13 21:30:32

glossy he told you yesterday that you'd got his paassword wrong when he had blatantly changed it (and come up with a bullshit story to cover his tracks).

He is not stupid but he is taking you for a ride. He is a fucking liar who squirms his way out of stuff by making you feel like it's your fault.

Do not even contemplate child number 2 with this man unless this gets resolved.

You are living on different planets at the moment and his planet is funded by the Bank of Wifey- is that really how you saw your life panning out?

LittleBearPad Fri 23-Aug-13 21:30:47

He needs to ask his mum if its a good or bad secret. Is he twelve!

This is a bad secret - I very much out he's going to surprise you with a £10k savings account.

You need to seriously consider whether this is how you want to spend your life as he won't change and debts will continue to grow.

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 21:33:23

Whats his mum like? Do you get on with her. Is she likely to help him to work out how to cover his tracks? Is that why hes so keen on getting her input?

lottiegarbanzo Fri 23-Aug-13 21:35:31

Look, this whole situation is serious, your Mum may provide moral support but you need professional help. Book an appointment with a financial advisor, get all your statements and records together and listen carefully.

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 21:36:13

No I think you read wrong (or I worded it wrong). When he said he couldn't tell me, I said well you have to tell my mum, so she can decide if its ok. Ie if its say a Christmas present or something she could say its ok. But then I really don't know why I said that I should have just said that's not acceptable.

Bearbehind Fri 23-Aug-13 21:36:32

If he is paying £170 per month on a credit card as a minimum payment he owes another approx £4,500 to £5,000 (based on 3% minimum payment).

Told you about that has he?

I thought you'd said his only debt was his loan?

Now he has another £170 month repayments, on top of £400 a month loan when he only earns £16k and has a wife and child??????

Jan49 Fri 23-Aug-13 21:37:20

OP, you said in your first post that you felt like a total doormat but your latest posts sound like you're considering letting him do what he's suggesting, so yes you're being a total doormat.

The only thing that is acceptable now IMO is for him to be totally transparent about his finances and pool his entire income so that he pays his share of the household bills. Or alternatively tell him to leave and he can pay child maintenance instead. I don't understand why you're even contemplating anything else.

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 21:37:55

Heres my guess.
Your DH "mum ive screwed up here and shes going to leave me and im not going to get to see DC which means you may not get to see yr grandchild as often Mum"

It may not be those exact words but i bet it will be in the same vein.

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 21:38:51

No I mentioned his credit card but didn't mention the amount. He pays more than the minimum payment on his credit card which is why it's £170.
On my own I'm paying minimum.

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 21:39:02

Agree with Jan49

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 21:39:45

And FWIW we don't speak to his parents!

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 21:40:52

jan I know you are right. You all are right. It's just difficult sad

LittleBearPad Fri 23-Aug-13 21:40:53

Sorry I misread your mum as his mum.

How old are you both OP if you don't mind me asking?

StuntGirl Fri 23-Aug-13 21:40:57

Oh sweetheart, he is really taking you for a ride.

He needs to tell you what the 'secret' is now.
He sits down with you and budgets.
He starts controlling his spending.

Anything else is unacceptable.

For the love of god, please don't have another baby with this manchild sad

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 21:43:09

I'm 33 he's 28.

Don't worry, there won't be another child at least until I know I can trust him.

stiffstink Fri 23-Aug-13 21:43:17

He doesn't know if its a good secret or a bad secret until he checks with your mum?!

Is he 6 years old?

Fuck that for a game of soldiers. He needs someone to hold his hand for everything or he might accidentally spend £7000 without noticing. That isn't marriage. That's being someone's skivvy.

Bearbehind Fri 23-Aug-13 21:44:55

So why does he get to pay more than the minimum amount, when he has frittered his money away, and you can only afford the minimum on your card, which I'm guessing you use because you need to top up your earnings.

This whole situation is wrong.

He cannot afford to surprise you with anything other than an offer to pay his way.

Tell him this and tell him it either gets sorted now or he'll very soon find out just how expensive living on your own can be.

petalsandstars Fri 23-Aug-13 21:52:08

I may be wrong in my calculations but if csa for one child is 15% of earnings then if you were to ltb over this financial fiasco you'd probably get more money from him than you do now to support the household. And your food/utilities bills would be less, and he would have to provide a roof over his own head using the money he otherwise fritters away.

Just a thought - that actually you would not really in much different a position, but he would be paying out a hell of a lot more.

If he tries the but I can't afford it story then ask him what he would prefer.

stiffstink Fri 23-Aug-13 21:52:40

LittleBearPad, we must know similar 6 & 12 yr olds.

OP he is not as useless with money as you think. He knows that he can trick you into funding his festival lifestyle but begrudges you three tops.

Shameful for a man with a wife and child (I'd feel the same if it was a woman doing this too by the way).

lottiegarbanzo Fri 23-Aug-13 21:52:44

OP, just tell me you are not Mrs 'he doesn't care about my holiday photos from before I met him' and 'he does nothing at home, I wash his hair'. Please. You don't have an older dd from an earlier relationship do you?

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 21:57:22

Why the fuck has he got to talk to your mum for confused

glossy is the plan for him to tell your Mum what the surprise is or actually open his online account in front of her and show her what the surprise is? Because the former doesn't really solve the problem and the latter is infantilising and pathetic.

FWIW DH and I share finances and have the same access to accounts. He bought a present for me recently and told me, "don't look at the 12th or you will guess". Just the 12th, no hiding whole statements and I can see no major money has left the account. And, I trust him.

I wouldn't do a consolidation loan with him. Also, check if this would affect his claim to your house if you split. I'm just worried he's cleverer than he seems and you might end up regretting some of the decisions you are making.

StuntGirl Fri 23-Aug-13 22:00:05

Gosh OP, it really is so sad sad I can't imagine how it must feel to find out your husband lies so easily and readily to you. How have you been coping?

Darkesteyes Fri 23-Aug-13 22:00:21

Does he think he can manipulate your mum with a sob story OP

ChasedByBees Fri 23-Aug-13 22:07:06

You can change your mind. You could go downstairs and say, 'sorting out this situation is more important than any surprise. You hiding this from me is bad, even if you say it's a 'good' surprise. I want to know now.'

You don't have to wait for your mum to give her approval - she doesn't know the full backstory I assume?

LittleBearPad Fri 23-Aug-13 22:16:46

Also what happens depending on what type of secret it is?

Good secret = he tells you
Bad secret = he doesn't tell you

Or vice versa?

Don't get it...

Charlesroi Fri 23-Aug-13 22:20:01

I hope the surprise isn't that he's already got the consolidation loan.

He's a man in a panic. Sorry.

lottiegarbanzo Fri 23-Aug-13 22:24:32

No, you can't be, he was in thrall to his parents and had done a degree, surely not an MA. So unless something has changed, your ages and elements of this are coincidence (please...).

Anyway, see an independent financial advisor. Do it.

Oh dear sad
You cannot tolerate this 'secret'
And you should not support him in extending his debt. He's financially incompetent. It's painful to realise this about your spouse (been there) but at some point you have to withdraw support for his crazy plans or he will drag you down.

FWIW I think he's already got the consolidation loan. When you asked him to contribute more previously I think he sorted it then but then panicked and that's why he changed the passwords before it came through. And now he's having a last ditch attempt to sell it to you as a good idea.

Where the frigg is he managing to get such a big loan on a low salary? To consolidate the remaining part of an £18k loan, his credit card and yours on a salary of £16k, who's handing out these loans?! If he has managed to get one it must be on a shite interest rate.

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 22:44:51

No lottie that wasn't me. (Sounds similar though - doesnt do much around the house...)

glossyflower Fri 23-Aug-13 22:48:33

fatima his original loan was from his building society he banks with. And he could technically easily get a loan on his wages since he has no other bills he pays!

LessMissAbs Fri 23-Aug-13 22:49:41

He's also talking about getting another loan to consolidate his loan, credit card, my credit card and my overdraft. He'll be paying the same amount over a longer period of time

You are not seriously going to sign a joint loan with this person?

The "secret" will be whatever excuse for further hidden debt he thinks up between now and the time he is made to reveal it to you. Don't be surprised if there are other secrets too. Just what is he spending all this money on?

OP, you are a doormat. Your DH is utterly useless.

Blimey!
Christ on a bike, this man is not inept, he is rather cunning and deceitful and manipulative.

What a shit.

I think you need to realize that the sooner you untangle yourself from him financially and emotionally, the better.

Do not let him consolidate any of your debts. Please dont. Just handle them yourself, and not let him have any hold over you by being able to claim he is paying your debts, so he has claims to your house/earnings, etc.

Interesting how he did not want to cancel YOUR life insurance that secures him in the event something should happen to you, whereas it is not very important that he has a life insurance that pays out to you....

True, I forgot that he has no outgoings smile

Hope it's not a bad suprise OP. it would piss me off though that he's changed the password and now refuses to tell you what he's hiding

Bearbehind Fri 23-Aug-13 22:55:10

Sorry OP but there is no way on earth someone with a wife and 6 month old child who earns £16k, and has only just started earning this, could get a mainstream loan of north of £18k- unless he lies about having a dependant child- nice thought eh?

quint raises a good point re. Life insurance. If anything were to happen to him, you be left with all the mortgage and bills to pay and his debt too. Where as if it were reversed he'd presumably be left with a mortgage free house. And he hasn't sorted out a joint policy that would be cheaper? I'd be sorting that out.

If you plan to stay with this pathetic excuse of a sponger, I suggest you invest in a will that leave everything you have, the house particularly, in a trust for your dd, so that you at least secure her future.

whattodoo Fri 23-Aug-13 23:04:49

Can you picture what your life is going to be like in 3,5,10 years time?
You're still going to be in financial chaos (or worse) unless you get control of this now.

Inertia Fri 23-Aug-13 23:06:25

Quint is right. He is showing you the confused ineptitude card ; in fact he is not only hiding his debts while sponging off you, he is actively trying to con you into taking responsibility for his debts.

He 's now bought himself 24 hours of money-juggling time by spinning you this 'happy secret' line (and this is after he locked you out of his accounts and pretended it was your error ) .

How do you not see the urgency here?

Inertia Fri 23-Aug-13 23:08:47

I missed the insurance point , good spot - I think it's possible for you to take out insurance on his life, might be worth checking out.

CorrineFoxworth Fri 23-Aug-13 23:14:19

"Good secret" hmm

Why does he have to prove this to your mother? I wouldn't dream of sharing financial information with my parents and if they were privy to something I was not that would be extremely strange. I'd have had to have been sectioned or imprisoned.

What is a good secret anyway? That he has taken it upon himself to buy you a luxury item to keep you sweet ?

Wuldric Fri 23-Aug-13 23:17:00

The trouble with nice people is that they are just that - nice and trusting and naive and stuff.

OP, please stand back and look at the facts in a detached way. Ignore your emotions and the fact that you lurve him and all that. Just look at the facts.

1. You were financially solvent and self-supporting until your DH moved in
2. Your DH is (at best) incompetent with money
3. The debts just keep rising and rising and rising with each consolidation
4. You do not know the true extent of his indebtedness

How long do you think this can continue for before you lose your house?

Your actions - or lack of actions - are quite incredible. You seem to be sleepwalking your way to bankruptcy. Take responsibility to protect your children. They have not voted for a feckless Dad. Do not make their load worse by being an irresponsible Mum.

LittleBearPad Fri 23-Aug-13 23:18:25

*Can you picture what your life is going to be like in 3,5,10 years time?
You're still going to be in financial chaos (or worse) unless you get control of this now.*

^^ This with bells on.

laeiou Fri 23-Aug-13 23:25:49

OP- even if the surprise is not a bad surprise, let's suppose it's money spent on you, it still means that he's spending money he doesn't have on something you don't need. Meanwhile you're cutting back on essentials. And he continues to lie and gaslight. Insinuating that you locked yourself out of online banking is disgraceful.

This business about consolidating loans again, so at least twice within your first year of marriage there's major financial decisions going on, shows that he's perfectly motivated to think about his finances when it suits him to do so. So he should be able to think about finances when you want to do so. I.E. this weekend.

I'm sure he has lots of qualities that make him a fun, exciting boyfriend but he needs to become a partner and a parent. Or really he should continue his single life, free from responsibility - you'd be better off financially and would be more secure.

MistressDeeCee Sat 24-Aug-13 00:35:21

If this were my OH he wouldn't get anywhere near my mum or have the chance to insult her intelligence by also spinning her a line.

This thread is frightening.

OP you will be left financially and emotionally devastated, and have to raise your children whilst feeling this way, if you don't just put an end to all this madness. & what about your children and their future stability?

I'm not trying to sound harsh. But this man will make you go downhill and its so not worth it. You may love him but he's just a man! A crafty and untrustworthy man at that. Money is worth more to him than you are. You won't die for the lack of him, OP. But you could ruin your health and self esteem if you stay with him.

You can do far better than him. If you are staying with him tho, keep a ruthless hold on your money. If he fails to understand the (obvious) reasons for this then so be it - & don't let him make your life a misery about it either. Good luck

MistressDeeCee Sat 24-Aug-13 01:11:56

& you're not a doormat at all. At least you're thinking, & seeking advice..

NapaCab Sat 24-Aug-13 04:09:28

You talk about 'when' you have the next child you can stay home for a year with both of them. When, OP? How can you possibly consider having a second child when you are married to a man-child and you're both in debt?

He needs to wise up and grow up and stop the childish nonsense about 'secrets' he's keeping from you to save 'your' feelings i.e. avoid any unpleasantness for himself.

It sounds like you are both in denial about reality although to be fair to you, OP, you are at least trying to be an adult and take responsibility for things. I just don't know why you would casually talk about bringing another child into your situation when there is so much else that needs sorting out.

CSIJanner Sat 24-Aug-13 04:21:13

Sorry OP - I think he's mugging you off. You don't trust him and its understandable why. I won't say LTB but you do need to seriously rethink and evaluate where you want to go from here.

Oh. - and he changed his passwords. And he's disrespecting your intelligence if he thinks you won't come to the conclusion yourself.

MrsKoala Sat 24-Aug-13 07:21:30

oh dear, this seems to have got so much worse than he's just shit with money. So you saw the accounts and they were fine. Then he went out and changed passwords, did something 'surprisey' (nice hmm ). ANd now wont let you see his accounts. BUT is suggesting a consolidation loan. It really sounds like he realised his number was up, knew you were going to clamp down on his spending, and rushed out bought you something to give him an excuse to keep you in the dark and then applied for a loan. Then he will present it as a fait accompli.

If i were you i would tell him now IF that is what happens you are leaving - and if it does leave! See what his response is when you put it to him. Tell him you appreciate the sentiment of a nice surprise, but no surprise is worth your worrying. You want to know and you want to know now. I would be really suspicious now. This is not like my inept dh i was describing earlier in the thread. This sounds thought out and clever.

I really hope i'm wrong op. sad

VisualCharades Sat 24-Aug-13 07:52:46

Am I going mad or did I read he has life insurance cover for you??

Said kindly, I think it would be a very good idea to consider getting some individual counselling. I doubt he will change his ways but you might have a hope of extricating yourself from this hideous co-dependence if you talk through with someone why you are putting up with such nonsense.

petalsandstars Sat 24-Aug-13 08:05:05

This is getting worse, FWIW to give a little perspective on "normal" my DH knows that if he comes home with a surprise for me when we are overdrawn he will have hell to pay. So doesn't.

CogDat Sat 24-Aug-13 08:46:14

I am sorry but this is screaming out gambling problem to me, or similar. £18k going on books, train fares and nothing much is just incomprehensible.

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 24-Aug-13 08:58:05

The life insurance is a worry - you said he couldn't get it as of a medical condition - what is it? Rare for life insurance to say no - just that their premium would be higher

He's happy to pay la for you as if god forbid something happens then he covered - hopefully any of your assets will go to your child in trust and not him - do you have a will?

"If he's hiding something from me, I would reconsider our marriage as it would be twice he's deceived me..."

But he is hiding something from you now. He has a "surprise", one that has prompted him to lock you out of his accounts, and hide any new debts in a consolidation loan! AND not just that, he wants his debts to be joint, and your house to be joint, but he wont let his salary be shared....

If I were you, I would be so friggin angry I would go cartoon Kaboom.

teacherandguideleader Sat 24-Aug-13 09:14:47

I say this as someone who has debts (and I am very ashamed to admit my DP doesn't know about them).

I pay half the bills and half of the food shopping. I recently reconsolidated my debts and my priority was making sure I had enough money to pay for bills / food and once I had deducted that from my salary I worked out what I could afford per month in repayments - so that my DP wouldn't end up having to support me sorting my mess out.

Check his credit rating. Although I have debt, I have an excellent credit rating because I pay everything on time. If his credit rating is poor, it would suggest debts aren't getting paid - so money you think is going on debts could be going elsewhere.

My debt has been caused by mental health problems and I am battling hard to overcome my demons. Even in my worst phases of spending I would have struggled to spend 7K in 4 months without having a lot to show for it (it is easy to look in my wardrobe and see where my money went!). I think the suggestions that maybe he has a gambling problem could be something to look at.

I had an ex who was a gambler and never had any money - he wouldn't admit to the problem but he never had anything to show for his 'spends'. One day I checked the internet history and found some gambling sites he was logging on to in the night (along with some prostitution sites).

Please be careful and don't reconsolidate anything with this man. I would never ask that of my DP - my debt is my mess, not his responsibility.

teacherandguideleader Sat 24-Aug-13 09:16:18

Just wanted to add - although my DP doesn't know about my debts, we are not financially linked in any way, shape or form and I am happy for it to stay that way for the next couple of years until my debts are cleared.

Bearbehind Sat 24-Aug-13 18:08:19

Have you found out what the surprise is yet glossy?

petalsandstars Sat 24-Aug-13 20:14:27

I really hope you've had the difficult conversation now and can sort out the finances fairly

prettybird Mon 26-Aug-13 11:52:50

This is such a sad story. I hope you manage to resolve things with your dh sad

A surprise is never a "nice" hmm one if you can't afford it sad

....and as for his gaslighting you by letting you have his password and then promptly changing it and letting you think you had got it wrong angry

It really does sound like he has some serious growing up to do. Only you can say if he is worth the effort.

oscarwilde Tue 27-Aug-13 12:01:22

Any chance he has forged your signature on a joint application for a loan? Using your salary and his as combined income.

If he has already gotten a consolidated loan, make sure you see the paperwork and that it is only in his name. Post in Legal Matters and Money to assess your financial exposure to him. See a financial advisor urgently about your home.

I think there are two options here:
1) boot him out and send him off to grow up and get his finances in control at his own risk. It is time to wake him up to the reality of what he is doing. Stop taking this lying down and get angry.
2) make his residency in the family home, and the continuation of your marriage conditional on him handing full financial control over to you. Have his salary paid into your account, hand him cash to live on. Make him see a financial advisor to look at his debts and how to manage the repayments efficiently.

The latter option is a harsh one, and it is not a nice place to be in if your marriage is to survive. It will only work if he is willing to acknowledge that he is hopeless with money, is sincerely sorry to have gotten into this state, and will not undermine your efforts by secretly taking out further dept.
It is however, a better choice than having a 3rd party doing this to you both if debt collectors place a lien on your earnings.

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 27-Aug-13 19:41:32

op come back - what did you find out, assuming not good as youve been awol sad

hope you are ok

BadLad Wed 28-Aug-13 06:11:10

I won't rehash what everyone else has said, although I agree with it.

I wouldn't bring your mother into the discussion in future. It's unfair to drag her into your marital problems, and it just infantilises both of you. This is a problem between the two of you, and while there is nothing wrong with getting someone else's perspective, doing it that way moves away from the direction in which you need to be going. Which is full and complete communication between the two of you about your finances, not whispered assurances to a third party that things are OK.

glossyflower Wed 28-Aug-13 09:33:17

Sorry guys I've been super busy.
Well we haven't resolved our problems as such but I feel like we are getting somewhere now.
We have made an appointment at the bank together but there's no way I'm getting a joint loan it's just to assess our finances.
He's not been spending so much but when he and I do we are saving all receipts. Anything other than shopping he asks me if its ok or not to buy.
As for the password, I still don't have it. He assures me I will after this 'surprise'. Our wedding anniversary is next week so maybe the surprise is to do with that.
Time will tell for many things.

lottiegarbanzo Wed 28-Aug-13 10:05:16

You do know that a bank is not an independent financial advisor don't you? They are a business, interested is selling you things.

lottiegarbanzo Wed 28-Aug-13 10:06:46

On the rest, progress maybe but you haven't got far. How can you know whether to say yes or no to purchases when you haven't done a proper budget?

Blondeshavemorefun Wed 28-Aug-13 10:18:38

As dh is heavily in debt if he has brought you a surprise for wa then he is even more of a fool

A surprise isn't worth stress and possible break up - I don't think dh relieses how upset/worried you are over this

He needs to give you the password

but glossyflower he had changed the password and let you think you were putting it in wrong......

Squitten Wed 28-Aug-13 10:26:28

Oh dear OP. I feared this was going to happen.

Time to take off the kid gloves now. Tell him to give you the banking password right NOW and come clean about whatever his "surpise" is or he can get out of your house.

Why on earth would you play these kinds of games with your fiancial security? Even if he does produce an expensive gift, how will you EVER know that that really is what he is hiding unless you see it yourself?

I'm sorry to say but you really are acting like a fool and you could find yourself in a lot of trouble that could be avoided right now. Very stupid IMO.

JoinYourPlayfellows Wed 28-Aug-13 10:34:24

I can't believe he is still openly lying to you and hiding finances and you are just going along with it.

This guy will destroy your and your child's financial security.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Wed 28-Aug-13 11:18:40

The thing is, even if its a genuine and wonderful surprise, it's obviously a surprise that costs money.

You are on the verge of going back to work early because you need the money.

Your family does not need an expensive surprise.

LessMissAbs Wed 28-Aug-13 11:26:35

You know OP, you have been given really good, sensible advice on here, and you just haven't taken any of it in. You sound such a pushover that I really do think you and this man are well matched. I sincerely hope that the state your finances are in soon doesn't begin to match his as well, but your attitude towards him is so conciliatory that I wouldn't bet against it.

Wuldric Wed 28-Aug-13 13:41:03

So, you are talking to the bank. Please OP, ask yourself why you are being inveigled along to talk to the bank.

The conversation will go like this:

You: We have XYZ debts and ABC income
Bank: Why don't you consolidate all those debts into a lovely shiny new debt with us? It will be so much cheaper for you and make so much financial sense. Look at how much more affordable your repayments would be!!
You: Err
Your DH: <salivates>
Bank: Actually, you know what? I can get you a loan cheaper still. You won't even notice the loan repayments. All you have to do is secure the loan against your home.
You: Err
Your DH: Nods gleefully <There is a pool of saliva around the size of a lake around him by now>
Bank: I'll just draw up the loan documents now then, shall I?
Your DH: <recovers his composure enough to yelp> YESSS