to think even a 'paedophile' is innocent until proven guilty?

(50 Posts)

(NC, sensitive subject)

Having a discussion with my DH at the moment about my cousin. Cousin is male, 30 yr old. As a small boy we strongly believe that he was abused by his father sexually. As an adult he got together with a much older women with 2 young daughters. Family were making comments like "he likes to give them a bath" and there was some suspicion as to his motives for being with this women.

He later had his own daughter with this women. He didn't tell anyone until she was about 2 and then suddenly announced oh by the way he had a daughter. Him and women split up and he took his daughter and became a single father to her, full custody (women didn't mind) and they lived in a bedsit together, him and his 5 year old.

Neither of my parents/siblings or I are in touch with him. We don't like him for many reasons but there is also this family underlying suspicion that maybe he is a paedophile. Both my mother and I have contacted the police/social services to ask them to be aware/to look out for anything.

Now this cousin and his daughter are coming to our small village for a weeks holiday. Normally they live very far away. DH has never met cousin but knows the back story and family suspicions. He keeps going on...and on...and on and about cousin and DH's and I toddler son. I have reiterated so many times that I do not like cousin, am not in touch with cousin and have no plans to meet up with him or his daughter. But he won't let it go until I agree that this cousin wont be allowed in the house

It's reached the point where I have said to him that surely it is innocent until proven guilty, its just a very strong suspicion held by lots of the family, not a tried and proven 'done deal'

I think it's a bit harsh to openly go on and on with such a strong accusation when I have said until I'm blue in the face that I won't be taking our son to meet him.

DH has now said he wants to tell our nanny, in case cousin turns up on our doorstep and then the nanny will know we don't want him to meet DS. I said that is a step too far and is not necessary. What does he think will happen in broad daylight with our 14 month baby obviously fully supervised at all times?

DH is shouting that I'm a bad mother if my attitude is just "whats the worst that can happen"

So AIBU to tell him to stop going on about it when this guy has not been convicted of paedophilia and I"m not going to be bloody meeting up with him anyway?

YANBU to think that anyone is "innocent until proven guilty"
YANBU to refuse to leave a child with someone who you are suspicious of
Your DH is NBU to want to protect your DS but he would be VU to tell anyone else that he believes that this man is a paedophile with no proof. That is slander. If you have real suspisions about his actions then you need to report them to the authorities.

OnceUponAThyme Wed 07-Aug-13 09:56:56

if I had a strong suspicion about someone possibly harming children, I wouldn't like them being near my dd.
so although your dh appears to be being overprotective to you, I can understand his concern.
you yourself have told dh you think strongly this man is a pedophile but are not sure, so his reaction of keeping your dc away is understandable.

HollyBerryBush Wed 07-Aug-13 09:57:28

Neither of my parents/siblings or I are in touch with him. We don't like him for many reasons but there is also this family underlying suspicion that maybe he is a paedophile. Both my mother and I have contacted the police/social services to ask them to be aware/to look out for anything.

So you have no contact yet on gossip and rumour you decided to contact SS and file an accusation?

Wow, what do you do to people you hate?

Hemlet Wed 07-Aug-13 09:57:49

So.... you're saying he's innocent until proven guilty but you've informed the police and social services that you think he's a pedophile?

Is there actually any evidence of this apart from giving his partner's children a bath? Oh and your suspicions that he was abused himself.

You sound very judgemental.

WeAllHaveWings Wed 07-Aug-13 10:00:32

We think but have no proof he was abused = he got together with a single parent of daughters + we don't like him = paedophile

Lots of assumptions, without lnowing him or you i don't know whether to feel sorry for the bloke!

But of course yanbu to not leave your child alone with a stranger

HollyBerryBush Wed 07-Aug-13 10:02:35

I'm all for alerting for valid reason, but this is just time wasting to the extreme - and you wonder why SS are stretched to the limit and children die every day - its because spurious complaints by vindictive people HAVE to be followed up, thus wasting precious time that could be used for children in real need of help

Your DH is NBU to want to protect your DS but he would be VU to tell anyone else that he believes that this man is a paedophile with no proof. That is slander.

That is what I'm saying. He can't go around saying he's a paedophile.

Holly we were reporting an incident that happened between him and me as children (both under 10 with me being 4 years younger). I don't believe though that is a CERTAINTY that activity like this a child means that he will be a paedophile as an adult. But it has certainly contributed a lot to the family suspicion.

TiggyD Wed 07-Aug-13 10:05:36

There seems to be nothing but rumours.
Rumours because he got involved with a woman who had children, a sure sign of a peedo.hmm
You think he was abused himself when he was young. Yes, you can't trust victims of child abuse can you. Keep away from them.hmmhmm
Rumours because he's a single dad, and all single dads...hmmhmmhmmhmmhmmhmm

BinarySolo Wed 07-Aug-13 10:06:10

I think given what you've told us here your dh reaction is understandable. No point keep saying he's innocent until proven guilty when you've convicted him in yours and you dh's minds already. Bit too late to backtrack when he presumably had years of you telling him this stuff.

Sounds like you've not even seen him with his daughter so on what grounds are your suspicions based? That he's a single dad? His ex obviously trusted him.

Yabvu

Branleuse Wed 07-Aug-13 10:07:16

wow, your poor cousin

Hemlet Wed 07-Aug-13 10:09:00

That is what I'm saying. He can't go around saying he's a paedophile.

But it's Ok for you to do it.

An incident that happened when you were both under ten sounds like a kid being curious. Obviously I don't know what happened but it certainly doesn't indicate that he would be a pedophile when older. You were both children. If he was much older then fair enough but he wasn't.

The thing is, what your DH knows of your cousin is what you have told him. And while you may now say "innocent until proven guilty" I'd say it's pretty obviuous that's not the impression you've been giving your DH all this time. Honestly now, can you be surprised that he thinks your cousin is suspect, when you have chosen to contact the police and SS about him?

You can't turn round now and say "Oh but I don't think he would hurt our DS" when you have been making it obvious that you think he's abusing his own daughter.

So, do what you need to do to reassure your DH that all your sudden talk of "innocent until proven guilty" is just the sham it so clearly is.

cory Wed 07-Aug-13 10:10:13

"Holly we were reporting an incident that happened between him and me as children (both under 10 with me being 4 years younger). I don't believe though that is a CERTAINTY that activity like this a child means that he will be a paedophile as an adult. But it has certainly contributed a lot to the family suspicion."

There'd be a lot of paedophiles around if everybody was judged on things that happened when they were under 10.

MrsHoarder Wed 07-Aug-13 10:15:20

Would he be willing to agree to discuss with the nanny that she shouldn't leave your DS alone with other family members without explicit prior consent from you without mentioning the cousin?

mynameisslimshady Wed 07-Aug-13 10:17:08

So this guy, who you think was abused, did something when he was a child, which leads you to think he is a paedoohile rather than a child not knowing any better?

You also suspect him because he fell in love with a woman with children, then had his own child and seems to be a brilliant dad to her.

How utterly nasty.

I was abused as a child and I know as a child I overstepped some boundries when I was under 10 because it was 'normal' to me, I have 4 children and 2 step children now and am a great Mum/Step Mum would you like me to pm you my details so you can report me too? angry

BoneyBackJefferson Wed 07-Aug-13 10:30:42

Your title says all that really needs to be said.

You already believe that he is guilty your DH is just repeating what you've told him, maybe in hearing what you've said you realise how you sound and don't like it.

hesterton Wed 07-Aug-13 10:35:15

If you were that concerned about the girl you would invite them round and get to know her. Supervised of course.

WilsonFrickett Wed 07-Aug-13 10:37:18

Your DH is simply reflecting back to you all the 'messages' you've sent him about your cousin over the years. Your DH believes your cousin is a paedophile because that's what you've constantly told him through your words and actions.

So understandably, he's nervous about his own child.

Obviously in a corner of your mind you know there is doubt whether your cousin actually is a child abuser, so when your DH states it as a concrete fact you don't really like it. But again, he's only repeating what you have told him.

So what do you do? Well if your nanny is worth her salt she would never leave her charge alone with a stranger who knocked on the door, would she? However you can easily have a conversation to reinforce this with her. And even if your cousin is an abuser, the chances of him sweeping down on your child with the intent to abuse are very slim - he knows he is a stranger to your child, so he must know the child would never be left alone with him.

So the issue isn't really your child - it's your attitude to your cousin and his child, who may or may not be at risk. What are you going to do about that?

hardbeingme Wed 07-Aug-13 10:43:43

i think personally i would make effort to be more involved to make sure the little girl is ok, ringing the police/ss on the off chance does not mean 'my work here is done' you have no idea of any aspect of their life he may appreciate some genuine help or the little girl may genuinely be vulnerable.

telling your partner you think he abuses childen and then wondering why he doesn't want him in the house seems a bit naive.

So you tell your DH that this cousin was abused, did something while under 10 and went with a woman with children so he is obviously a paedophile and then when your DH says the same you are saying 'innocent til proven guilty'? hmm

It was you that told your DH this in the first place!

Flobbadobs Wed 07-Aug-13 10:55:36

I feel rather sorry for this bloke if in your family 'abused' equals 'paedophile'. As I understand it a child subjected to sexual abuse can have a very skewed idea of social norms wrt to sexual behaviour (please correct me if I have this wrong somebody, I really don't want offend by suggesting this).
Your entire family has spent years talking about him in the worst possible way and reading terrible things into eveything he does and now you're suprised that your Dh is parroting it back to you?
He may be an utter arse in different ways but it's a huge jump from 'twat' to 'paedo'.
YABU. Very YABU unless you suddenly dripfeed us some concrete eveidence.

Nancy66 Wed 07-Aug-13 10:59:09

It's your husband I'd be keeping my kids away from - he sounds like a horrible, manipulative bully.

quoteunquote Wed 07-Aug-13 11:03:48

poor guy, someone really should let him know you all think he is a pedophile,

then if he isn't he can at least deal with it, and keep away from a place where he is being hated,

and if he is then he knows it only a matter of time before it all catches up with him,

If he does visit the area with his child someone might attack him,

sounds like an explosive situation.

Nancy I dont think he does. I think he is acting in protecting his daughter because of what the OP has told him which I am not surprised at. If you are told someone is a paedophile then you will want to keep your children away

People like you are dangerous, youve spread rumours about a man who you believe was abused as a child and an incident that happened when he was under 10 shock after winding your DH up I cant see this blokes visit ending well, lets hope youve definately got your facts right.

BoneyBackJefferson Wed 07-Aug-13 11:31:46

"he sounds like a horrible, manipulative bully."

Because he's angry that someone that he has been convinced is a paedophile is going to come in to contact with his children?

I would say that the OP is more manipulative than her DH.

Jomato Wed 07-Aug-13 11:33:25

Can you recognise the hypocrisy in your thread title and OP? You have been treating this man as if he's guilty for years and now your upset that your DH is doing the same. Is his reaction over the top? Probably. However I think you and your family need to take responsibility for that. By jumping to conclusions about every aspect of this man's life you have turned him in to a monster to your DH and he's now acting on that to try to protect your child.

Flobbadobs Wed 07-Aug-13 11:33:50

DH sounds scared. Anyone would be if they'd been fed poison about someone for years.

wonderingsoul Wed 07-Aug-13 11:44:13

i think youv felt safe talking and acusing h im of paedophile, safe in the knowldage that he is far away and theres no chance of him finding out.

now he''s in your near by your afraid of him finding out, geting mad and doing you for slander, or for him to be really fucking angry and upset. so your back peddling.

Vivacia Wed 07-Aug-13 11:56:32

Why don't you actually like him?

sashh Wed 07-Aug-13 12:10:56

Holly we were reporting an incident that happened between him and me as children (both under 10 with me being 4 years younger). I don't believe though that is a CERTAINTY that activity like this a child means that he will be a paedophile as an adult. But it has certainly contributed a lot to the family suspicion.

Are you a paedophile? An 'incident between two children, with you not stating what it was and that it was reported on looks to me like nothing happened. I don't mean nothing literally I mean it might have been a childish stunt, a 'you show me yours and I'll show you mine' kind of thing.

If it was more serious than that, and you do have a genuine reason, then I appologise, I am just going on the information you have given.

Branleuse Wed 07-Aug-13 13:09:29

i think theres a hell of a lot of kids who play around with other kids when theyre very young, but its PLAYING. mummies and daddies etc. I really dont think that is any indication of future sexual preferences. I know I did some pretty explicit exploring with some of my friends and AFAIK none of us are padeophiles now

pigletmania Wed 07-Aug-13 13:11:09

Yabvvu there is nothing substantial about your families claims, nothing proven, just heresay. That is very Dangerous. Your title contradicts what you have said, you have called ss on this man with no proof

phantomnamechanger Wed 07-Aug-13 13:23:11

hmm

you have no evidence whatsoever that this cousin did anything wrong with the children of the woman he was with, or his own DD - have you even met her yet?
What makes you think he will try to get in touch when there is no relationship there - its not like you are always in touch but separated by distance, and this is his chance to come and catch up properly?

Of course you would supervise your child round other adults anyway, especially adults you know so little about - as would the nanny - but as for him turning up on the doorstep saying "Hi I am Toads cousin, we haven't been in touch for years, but let me in, I really want to meet her DC - mind If I take them to the park" - of course the nanny is going to say yes right away hmm

LayMeDown Wed 07-Aug-13 13:27:58

If what you say is true and this man was abused as a child then this more than likely explains any inappropriate incident that happened between you as children. Sexually abused children often display inappropriate sexualised behaviour, as their normal boundaries have been destroyed and they have no awareness of how they should behave/ how love and affection is shown.
This does not mean they will grow up to be paedophiles, and you and your family have taken an extraordinary leap to assume it. It seems that this man has been labelled odd by your family since you realised he was abused, and everything he does is coloured with this expectation that he is not 'normal'.

"Cousin is male, 30 yr old. As a small boy we strongly believe that he was abused by his father sexually"

Where the hell were the family with their finger pointing and contacting the authorities then? I take it that the know child abuser is now dead?

There may have been a lot of prejudice around the age difference in the relationship that he formed and in years gone by, it was thought strange that a man wanted to "take on" a woman with children and "hands on dads" were viewed as "not normal".

However, tbh, it is probably for the best that this man has distanced himself from his "family".

My DH bought up his five children, three female, thank God he wasn't surrounded by people who thought this was strange and yes, at times they shared a bed and bath (him with shorts on, as he did with our own DD's.

Your DH can inform the nanny that no-one should be left alone with your DS, including family, unless you have authorised it in advance, that is all that needs to be said.

littlewhitebag Wed 07-Aug-13 13:31:47

Wow. This really takes the biscuit.

Here is the evidence you have presented for your cousin being a paodophile:

1. He was abused as a child

2. He was in a relationship with a woman who already had two daughters. He bathed these children.

3. He is a single parent to his own daughter and lived in a bedsit with her.

Your post title suggests there have been some allegations being investigated by the police but in fact all you have presented are a few totally unfounded rumors which are being perpetrated by your family. Poor man. I assume he has no idea what his family are thinking about him?

I work as a SW in child protection. There is no allegation being made so nothing to to investigate. If you call them they will do nothing as there is nothing to report.

You are very horrible people. I rarely say this but honestly. Just look at what you are saying and how dangerous it could be.

phantomnamechanger Wed 07-Aug-13 13:32:50

is the person you suspect of having abused this cousin as a child still alive? In contact with the cousin and his DD? If you had any concrete suspicions back then I hope these were investigated by the authorities, and I hope the abuser is not in touch with the little girl now.

so, what did you all do about your suspicions at the time?

WilsonFrickett Wed 07-Aug-13 13:36:04

I have to agree littlewhitebag. I also think the thought of turning up unannounced to the OP's house won't cross this man's mind - he must know the rest of the family have a very odd attitude towards him, I can't imagine he'll want to pop round for tea and buns. sad actually about this thread - it actually feels like victim blaming at its worst.

JuliaScurr Wed 07-Aug-13 13:38:31

'innocent til proven guilty' works for lots of criminal trials but sex offences are most often one person's word against the other. Fine in civil cases, but in criminal one person is 'innocent' for the duration of the trial but the other is a mere witness - all defence lawyers must show inesses to be unreliable, so fundamentally untrustworthy

this is obv a massive inequality in the process

Flobbadobs Wed 07-Aug-13 13:40:18

littlewhitebag would the cousin have been made aware of the allegations made by the OP? Obviously not who made them but what they were?

This is old style victim blaming at it's best.

A little boy abused by a family member, which by the looks of it went unreported.

That child grows up damaged by the abuse and the lack of help and support from the people who are supposed to care about him, so is branded "odd" and unlikable.

Cuts off from said family, which he would need to do, for his own MH well being, forms his own family, doesn't bother anyone, is investigated by services, yet it still isn't enough.

Time to get out the tar, feathers and pitchforks.

"littlewhitebag would the cousin have been made aware of the allegations made by the OP? Obviously not who made them but what they were"

Yes he would be made aware of the nature of the allegations.

For all the OP knows the cousin has had therapy for the abuse and treatment by his family.

Part of the reason as to why he settled with an older partner may have been because he needed in-depth help to accept sexual contact again.

A man's recovery from sexual abuse is different and learning to form a trusting sexual relationship, because of the need for a physical response, iyswim.

littlewhitebag Wed 07-Aug-13 14:11:53

He would only be made aware of the allegations if actually any allegations had been made. This would be done on a case by case basis. This also might vary dependent on area/country. I am in Scotland.

Flobbadobs Wed 07-Aug-13 14:24:17

So a possible sexual abuse victim could well be aware that someone thinks he's a paedophile depending on where he lives? sad
I don't usually hope for troll threads but I really do hope this is one.

TheFallenNinja Wed 07-Aug-13 14:39:10

I've read the OP a couple of times and on the face of it seems to be the bullshit that others here have described.

My worry would be is what are all these family rumours and accusations hiding. It all seems a bit smokescreeny to me.

Apart from the calls to SS it all seems to be diverting from something, not sure what but something.

Eyesunderarock Wed 07-Aug-13 14:47:12

OP, your entire adult family sounds deeply unpleasant and appear to have been so for decades.
Suspicious without evidence, slandering a man over an extended period without actual cause or proof of wrongdoing and spreading the poison to others who haven't even met him.
Truly vile.
Yet somehow you think your DH is the problem? He isn't.

LazyMonkeyButler Wed 07-Aug-13 15:01:12

Sorry, I may be being simple but I don't get it.

Either you honestly believe your cousin to be a paedophile or you don't.

It seems very contradictory to be contacting SS about him living with his own daughter on one hand, and then being angry with your DH for not wanting the cousin to have contact with your DS confused.

If you believe his DD to be in danger from her paedophile father (which he may not even be) - why are you angry with your DH trying to keep your DS away from him?

What have your family done to safeguard the little girl? Has anyone done anything to find out whether she is safe or not? Other than ask SS to "keep an eye on her"?

So this guy is living his life as a single parent with a 5 yo. He probably doesn't have a great family support network (assuming there is something to the rumours about his dad). He lives in a bedsit with his DD. He has scraped together the cash to come on holiday to your village - where he has some family ties. However his family in the village (and possibly more of the village than that) have heard these rumours about him being a paedophile. His and his DD's holiday are basically ruined before it's even started. How very sad. You, your DH and others that keep this gossip mill going should be ashamed of yourselves.

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