To think that describing someone as 'hipster'...

(200 Posts)
ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 09:45:41

... Is not remotely as derogatory as describing them as 'chavvy'?

Had DHs long term friend and his wife over recently. A mutual friend asked how they were and I said words to the effect of 'oh X (male half of the couple) is utter bliss as ever. I adore him, he's so hipster!' She recoiled in horror and told me that I couldn't use 'hipster' to describe someone as it was as bad as saying someone is 'chavvy' (though, obviously with completely different meanings). FWIW it would never cross my mind to describe someone as 'chavvy' as for me it has unpleasant connotations.

X is in his 40s, I'm late 30s. X works in tech, is v stylish, wears clothing brands that will be fashionable in a years time, is a real muso, can talk for whole minutes about which coffee he prefers, is off beat and cool and adorable and good fun... which equates to hipster in my mind.

MN - am I using the word wrongly? Has 'hipster' acquired a derogatory meaning? Help!

Doobiedoobedoobie Wed 07-Aug-13 09:47:21

I don't know the word hipster except in the context of jeans confused

Famzilla Wed 07-Aug-13 09:48:26

I'm 23 and would use hipster as an insult. Then again I am incredibly working class.

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 09:50:36

are you all 15 grin I thought only teenagers used hipster as an insult

Latara Wed 07-Aug-13 09:50:55

What is a hipster, some people use it as an insult to describe people who try too hard?

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 09:51:13

I don't know the word hipster except in the context of jeans

thats what I thought when i first heard it blush

EasterHoliday Wed 07-Aug-13 09:51:20

it has a slightly mocking tone these days. Read the caitlin moran Saturday Times Mag piece on hipsters from last week - v funny and sums it up. There is somethign more than faintly ridiculous about a grown man who waxes his handlebar moustache in an ironic manner and wears tweed in brick lane, do admit

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 09:51:25

Famzilla - crikey - it can be an insult?! Blimey, I just thought it was a way of describing someone. Erk sad

Redlocks30 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:51:40

I would only use the word in relation to jeans! It sounds like you fancy him tbh!!

noddyholder Wed 07-Aug-13 09:51:55

My younger brother is early 30s works in meeja and uses it as an insult. To me its a pair of jeans

ClassyAsALannister Wed 07-Aug-13 09:51:56

It depends how you say it I think. Yes, it can be an insult but not if you didn't mean it to be iyswim?

It's not as bad as chav, as chav literally means council house average and implies all sorts of nasty crap about the person.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 09:52:50

I'd use hipster but in a piss-taking way. Perhaps that's what she meant.

BTW from your description, X fits my definition perfectly wink

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 09:53:06

Hipsters around here wear either those massive skip hats and a trendy t shirt or chinos and tweedy jackets . and are all usually under 20

A lot of people use hipster in a derogatory way, yes. Me included blush
Generally it's used to mean someone is pretentious, thinks they're better/cooler than everyone else because they like X thing. The sort of person who goes "Oh, you like X? Well I liked them before they hit the mainstream." in a sarky tone of voice, while bemoaning how everyone they like is selling out.
Your DH does sound a bit hipster-y, but minus the pretentiousness grin

Wouldn't put it on a bar with chavvy, though. While I use both, I use chav when I want to get across my dislike for a person, because I loathe everything the word is associated with (disclaimer: this is different from what most people on here associate with the word, please don't flame me).
Hipster is kind of a love/hate insult and can be used mockingly. But I suppose that depends on the individual persons mental associations with the two terms.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 09:53:38

Red goodness no! He's DH best mate of 25 years. He has a lovely wife! Doesn't stop him being really good company and a lovely guy.

*DH's mate, argh. Posted too quickly!

Offcolour Wed 07-Aug-13 09:54:12

I use hipster in a derogatory way, to describe the ultra pretentious people hanging about brick lane in ludicrous clothing. Just think Nathan Barley...

sparechange Wed 07-Aug-13 09:54:25

'Hipster' is a bit like 'posh'
Some people use it as a mild insult, others wear it as a badge of pride

Chez sparechange, it is the latter, and restuarants/bars/shops will often by ruled out on account of being 'too hipster'
But then we'd probably be ruled out of their target customer list for being too mainstream

Famzilla Wed 07-Aug-13 09:55:16

'fraid so! It's quite clear you didn't mean any harm by saying it though. And no, it's not as bad as "council house and violent".

missmargot Wed 07-Aug-13 09:55:34

I would always associate the term hipster with being a little pretentious and try hard, probably because there are very few people who genuinely are as you describe but there are an awful lot of people who try desperately to be seen that way.

thegreylady Wed 07-Aug-13 09:57:21

I have only heard it relating to jeans. When I was young 'hip' meant trendy and lively it was a compliment. I find the modern habit of adding 'ster' on to words very confusing indeed!

PrettyKitty1986 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:57:53

I have never heared of the word. Except, like others, in the sense of the jeans. And i'm not that keen on them either.

ClassyAsALannister Wed 07-Aug-13 09:59:00

(I hate the word Chav btw. I sound like a bleeding heart liberal but I think it makes the person using it sound thick/ignorant)

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 09:59:29

I have never heard of an adult being called hipster in dds school the hispsters wear the big hats nerd t shirts and love all things geek atm , dds recoils in horror when she sees them but she is only a teenager, I dont think adults should be worried about it being insulting

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 09:59:47

I'm in shock here. And in danger of turning into my DM who uses, what are to me awful expressions and then says 'oh darling, don't be silly, I didn't meant it in a derogatory sense*!

Nagoo Wed 07-Aug-13 10:05:07

Agree it's a bit nobbish but no way near as bad as chavvy and all the connotations that has. I've not seen anyone on Jezza Kyle with ironic glasses and a retro-tache...

Lanceolate Wed 07-Aug-13 10:11:04
WeleaseWodger Wed 07-Aug-13 10:13:11

I thought it meant a pretentious, trendy twat found in hackney and Dalston (east London). But mild enough to actually say to someone's face. As opposed to chav.

DoJo Wed 07-Aug-13 10:19:27

If anyone droned on at me about which coffee they preferred for more than the 2 seconds it takes to give me a brand name, then they deserve to be insulted to my mind. There's a reason why the terms 'hipster' and 'douchebag' go together...

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 10:24:51

Ok - the general consensus seems to be that IABU. Happy to take that on board grin

Any other no-longer-innocent phrases/descriptors I should be avoiding?

WilsonFrickett Wed 07-Aug-13 10:46:04
mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 10:49:54

oh good god wilson was that man posing he was posing wasnt he grin

FunLovinBunster Wed 07-Aug-13 10:53:44

Being a FunLovinBunster, I'm a hopster, obvs

FunLovinBunster Wed 07-Aug-13 10:55:40

Self absorbed bastards...
May I present
Will Self
Julie Burchill
Tony Parsons
Jarvis Cocker
Stephen Fry

FunLovinBunster Wed 07-Aug-13 10:57:16

Damon Albarn
The Gallaghers (Oasis)
Professor Green
Mick Jagger

daddyorchipsdaddyorchips Wed 07-Aug-13 11:00:33

Are you sure she didn't recoil in horror at you describing someone as 'utter bliss as ever.'?!

Seriously, who says that?

Northernexile Wed 07-Aug-13 11:00:44

I'm confused. Can someone be hipster'? Is it not that they are a hipster?

<out of touch pedant>

Northernexile Wed 07-Aug-13 11:01:41

Don't understand how someone can be utter bliss either.

<proper confused pedant>

SamuelAndOscarsMummy Wed 07-Aug-13 11:01:46

I thought it was those stupid kids who thought dying their hair bright purple made them 'unique' (despite all their friends having the same hairstyle) I may have the wrong word though, I'm going by younger cousins/friends teenagers lol!

The way you described it doesn't sound derogatory at all! YANBU, no label is really offensive anyway once you have left school, people need to stop being so precious and easily offended IMO.

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:02:50

It's slightly mocking and slightly affectionate, i know a few people who are verging on being hipsters from time to time and they can laugh at themselves as much as anyone tbh. It doesn't have the same clout as chav because chav is used to mock a group who lack political and economical clout, in a sense they can't answer back, there's a power imbalance.

I recently was in a pub near an art gallery where there'd been an exhibition/party thing on, and this bloke was really drunk, bobbling around with a big portfolio, bothering all the women. Well he ended up treading on the landlord's dog and getting nasty and the pub chefs came through from the back and chucked him out. One of them went 'hipster art douche' as he shut he door on this fool, it was so scathing grin

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 11:03:45

That is what they are here samuelandOscarsmummy it is a teenage thing maybe early 20s at a push

MarysDressSways Wed 07-Aug-13 11:06:15

I live in east London so the place is awash with hipsters!

It depends on the context, I certainly wouldn't think it was an out and out insult.. but I wouldn't see it as a compliment either. But in your context, it's fine.

catinabox Wed 07-Aug-13 11:06:33

Are you sure she didn't recoil in horror at you describing someone as 'utter bliss as ever.'?

Ha Ha

I don't think listening to someone talk about the kind of coffee they like for a whole minute would be 'utter bliss'

But that' just me.

RobotHamster Wed 07-Aug-13 11:06:55

This thread is making me grin

(and hipster is definitely used in a lightly mocking tone afaic)

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 11:08:00

the kids at DDs school call themselves hipsters it seem to be a tag or a label a new sort of group iyswim

ArtVandelay Wed 07-Aug-13 11:09:23

What is this "utter bliss" "i adore him"? Who speaks like that?

YABU for talking like Mr Humphries on crack. And I do think you are terribly impressed by him, watch you aren't hurting your DHs feelings.

MarmaladeTwatkins Wed 07-Aug-13 11:14:51

" said words to the effect of 'oh X (male half of the couple) is utter bliss as ever. I adore him, he's so hipster!'"

"X works in tech, is v stylish, wears clothing brands that will be fashionable in a years time, is a real muso, can talk for whole minutes about which coffee he prefers, is off beat and cool and adorable and good fun... "

You all sound very irritating TBH.

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:17:14
Shitsinger Wed 07-Aug-13 11:17:25

Are you Taylor Swift OP? grin

YouTheCat Wed 07-Aug-13 11:17:52

If anyone talked at me for minutes about coffee, I'd twat them with a packet of Typhoo for being a pretentious nobend. grin

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:18:01
mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 11:19:20

Just another way of saying 'early adopter. That whole look is so contrived as to be anti style. Trying a little too hard but not everybody can be effortlessly stylish I guess wink

NobodyPutsTomArcherInTheCorner Wed 07-Aug-13 11:23:16

I've never heard of it (other than jeans). Or 'muso' while we're at it. <shuffles off to be old in the corner>

curlew Wed 07-Aug-13 11:23:20

At dd's school, the hipsters carry slim volumes of poetry round with them. And talk all intellectual. And wear hats.

squoosh Wed 07-Aug-13 11:23:30

Anyone who thinks 'hipster' is as derogatory as 'chav' is a fool.

It's like people who say being called 'ginger' is on a par with racial abuse. It really isn't.

catinabox Wed 07-Aug-13 11:24:44

YABU for talking like Mr Humphries on crack

Ha Ha Ha I just woke DH up laughing grin

YouTheCat Wed 07-Aug-13 11:25:26

In the 50s/60s these types were called Beatniks and were equally irritating.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 11:25:48

Wow - I really have managed to offend numerous people. Yes, I do describe someone as being utter bliss.

No, my Dh has nothing to worry about.

Apologies for offending the pedants!

<slinks away>

ViviPru Wed 07-Aug-13 11:26:06

Artex that the best thing since Being a Dickhead's Cool

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 11:26:36

Drinking out of Mason Jars/Jam jars has been shamelessly copied from the Deep South where this originated not as an 'ironic' statement but out of necessity. Check out Ernest Micklers boks here. This is the spiritula home of the jam jar thing and no I do not approve of the term white trash but I guess the author would say he is reclaining it.

NobodyPutsTomArcherInTheCorner Wed 07-Aug-13 11:27:25

'can talk for whole minutes about which coffee he prefers..'

Blimey charlie.

curlew Wed 07-Aug-13 11:29:28

""X works in tech, is v stylish, wears clothing brands that will be fashionable in a years time, is a real muso, can talk for whole minutes about which coffee he prefers, is off beat and cool and adorable and good fun... "

Sounds like a git to me.

catinabox Wed 07-Aug-13 11:30:12

I really have managed to offend numerous people. Yes, I do describe someone as being utter bliss

Not offended, just amused!!

dirtyface Wed 07-Aug-13 11:31:49

where i live, hipster = pretentious twat

i would honestly rather be called a chav

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:33:37

From the red trousers blog:

Q: why did the hipster burn himself on his pizza?

A: he ate it before it was cool

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 11:34:49

Some very nasty personal comments on here. Really nasty. Calling somebody a git. Charming.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 11:35:37

Just to be clear: Mr Humphries (on crack) = Mr Humphries from Are You Being Served? grin

curlew Wed 07-Aug-13 11:36:07

I don't call him a git. I said he sounds like a git from the description given.

MarmaladeTwatkins Wed 07-Aug-13 11:36:12

LOL at "very nasty" and "git". grin

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:36:39
EstelleGetty Wed 07-Aug-13 11:37:17

I wouldn't ever use it as a compliment, but it's not in the same league as 'chav.' If I call someone a hipster, or hear someone being called a hipster, I know there's no malice intended, it's just gentle ribbing. I went to art school and (forgive the rest of this sentence) quite a few of my friends are hipsters!

Whereas if I ever hear someone saying 'chav' or my personal most despised term, 'common,' I think the speaker is an out and out wank.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 11:37:21

Oh that makes it sound so much nicer, Curlew....

Northernexile Wed 07-Aug-13 11:39:05

Artex that's brilliant!

MarmaladeTwatkins Wed 07-Aug-13 11:39:27

Mignonette, have you gorn all delicate flower on us?! DS (6) has called me worse than a git, such as a pig's nuts or dunderhead sad

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 11:44:14

It is the increase in sheer unpleasantness on MN that bothers me really. Things are said here that you just wouldn't say if the person was in front of you. Or at least you wouldn't say unless you had a pretty nasty disinhibited streak.

I have heard far worse believe me (work as MH professional in the forensic setting) and am not bothered by salty language but that was unnecessary and just spiteful.

And your 6 yr old's insults are funny Marmalade.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 11:44:28

mignonette someone once asked me if I was an early adopter. I thought it meant children. He meant queuing outside the Apple shop in the wee hours of the morning.

I thought 'muso' was bad enough. I missed 'utter bliss'.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha

ViviPru Wed 07-Aug-13 11:46:36

I heart "salty language"

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:47:08

In November, me and dh like to stroll through town playing 'hipster or movember?' with all the taches we see. A fun game yo! Have that one on me.

catinabox Wed 07-Aug-13 11:47:12

ArtexMonkey

ha ha. quality.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 11:48:13

I used to want to change careers and become one of those 'cool hunters' employed by social forecasting companies/major brands. That was until I realised I would probably have to grow a beard and be called all kinds of horrible names....grin

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 11:49:36

I'm replying to a totally different thread, where no one's getting stressed or uptight man. Just put your big plastic glasses on and kick back.

LEMisdisappointed Wed 07-Aug-13 11:51:17

I must be getting old hmm

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 11:51:56

Meanwhile I'm making a list of all the words/expressions I use that I shouldn't be using! It's a long list. Need brew.

catinabox Wed 07-Aug-13 11:53:33

I say gosh a lot Ellen so don't worry about it..

EstelleGetty Wed 07-Aug-13 11:57:23

I heart "salty language" too ViviPru. It's great!

My DH described my sense of humour as "saltier" than his in his speech at our wedding. Probably because I laugh about bums and stuff.

KingRollo Wed 07-Aug-13 11:58:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EstelleGetty Wed 07-Aug-13 11:59:17

And I think you have a lovely turn of phrase, Elle. I've just finished reading a brilliant John Waters book and I wish more people would say things like "utter bliss." Sign of an inspired mind, if you ask me!

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 11:59:35

well i suppose it depends on your definition of cool is grin do grown up really worry about being cool or not confused

Feminine Wed 07-Aug-13 12:00:17

elle where did you hear this "utter bliss" business?

It is the weirdest thing to say about a person

It sounds like something a woman might say after making love on a day time movie!

I believe you when you say you don't fancy him ...but c'mon, are you sure

Oh, and the hipster bit is cool with me.

KingRollo Wed 07-Aug-13 12:02:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gaggiagirl Wed 07-Aug-13 12:03:09

elle I use the word to describe a fashion my brother and his DP are hipster and describe themselves as such. I feel old now.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 12:03:14

I know someone who turned up to an important sales meeting on a scooter. Not a Vespa, one of those children's things.

He didn't get the contract.

He's a hipster.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 12:03:47

Feminine - I'm not sure. I think I've always said things like that blush

I'll give MN credit for making me aware of flaws that I hadn't managed to un-earth in therapy wink

squoosh Wed 07-Aug-13 12:04:05

C&A is ironically cool KingRollo, but only if you know you're being ironic...............or some such nonsense.

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 12:04:31

. I have a top on from C&A

is C n A even around these days grin

mrsjay Wed 07-Aug-13 12:05:20

oh yes the ironic pish really annoys me, I am wearing this ironically that nick grimshaw says that all the time piss off nick grin

NobodyPutsTomArcherInTheCorner Wed 07-Aug-13 12:07:36

Utter bliss sounds like it's straight from Malory Towers.

Fluffybumblebee Wed 07-Aug-13 12:08:38

hipster explained in this video:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I

WilsonFrickett Wed 07-Aug-13 12:08:46

limited has it, right there. Grown men (for it is usually men) on scooters may be tolerated. Grown men on scooters pitching for business, not so much.

I quite like a spot of utter bliss though boring on about coffee is not bliss. It's dull.

KingRollo Wed 07-Aug-13 12:09:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 12:12:38

Possibly too much Mitford sisters in my early teens?

<fails about to find a reason>

Gunznroses Wed 07-Aug-13 12:18:16

Is his wife not 'utter bliss' then or is she just lovely, is she adored too ? hmm

catinabox Wed 07-Aug-13 12:18:55

Isn't the ironic thing just a get out clause in case something might be perceived as
uncool or a bit shit?

I might start saying 'utter bliss' now. I think it'd go with 'gosh'

I might say it 'ironically' to start with.

jamdonut Wed 07-Aug-13 12:19:28

My daughter (16 ) has been invited to an "after exam results" party, where they have to dress in different styles. She had "hipster" picked out for her.

She wants to borrow my Muse T-shirt, because she said hipsters always seem to wear band t-shirts! (Oh dear god...does that make me a hipster??!!)

She never said it was a derogatory term, just a style.

Whereas Chav is definitely derogatory...and looks like it sounds.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 12:22:38

Gunz she is indeed adored, lovely and utter bliss. They're a wonderful couple with wonderful children.

I do not have designs on X. I have a DH whom I won't describe, as any adjectives I apply to him will doubtless make me sound even more witless than people on this thread appear to think I am.

Christ, I meant this to be a moderately light hearted thread...

daddyorchipsdaddyorchips Wed 07-Aug-13 12:23:58
ViviPru Wed 07-Aug-13 12:25:40

I meant this to be a moderately light hearted thread

It has lightened my morning smile

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 12:29:03

wonderful children.

<wonders innocently what they're called>

Feminine Wed 07-Aug-13 12:29:39

I don't think you sound witless Elle.

I think you sound artistic.

But that (to me) is still a very unusual way to talk about a person especially someone else's husband grin

ViviPru Wed 07-Aug-13 12:30:49

<wonders innocently what they're called>

A tenner on Keith and Joyce

Gunznroses Wed 07-Aug-13 12:31:33

Im taking it as light hearted OP (i'm laughing really hard here), Ive just never heard of most of the slangs you used, the way you describe the X is very OTT, its not by mistake that quite a few people on here including myself seem to think you might fancy him slightly.

What on earth is muso? hipster has already been explained (i thought is was a style of jeans too). I can't think of a single person on God's green earth who is 'utter bliss' to be with, not a word I would ascribe to a human being. Now swimming in the blue sea in the Bahamas is 'utter bliss' grin, Dc going to bed early after rowing all day long again is 'utter bliss'.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:35:37

Love your tunr of phrase Elle. and is English supposed to be this wonderfully versatile and amorphous language?

Am a fan of John Waters too Estelle.

And considered 'Bliss' as a name for DD!

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 12:36:50

Muso is just someone who is really into music. The kind of person who wishes that independent vinyl-selling record shops still exist.

For me, spending time with people that I like being with is utter bliss. Won't argue with swimming in the sea in the Bahamas being utter bliss either though!

Apologies if I was a bit abrupt - I genuinely don't fancy X at all and was taken aback that it came across as if I did!

Nagoo Wed 07-Aug-13 12:38:31

I still have a top from English C&A grin They don't make quality like that anymore.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:41:09

It is a turn of phrase just like you hear people saying 'I am obsessed with' as in 'obsessed with these new boots'.....It doesn't mean they are frotting them or erecting a shrine to them in their sitting room.

You hear 'super' a lot too as in 'super cool' 'super smart'' etc.

Just a phrase that's all.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 12:43:29

We used to describe an erm, individualistic, colleague as a wild-eyed rider on the road to oblivion.

Make of it what you will. All I'm saying is that he wasn't widely respected by us squares. Daddio.

Gunznroses Wed 07-Aug-13 12:45:19

Thanks for explaining 'muso'.

It wasn't just the 'utter bliss' that made it sound funny, but the 'i adore him" too that really made eyebrows go up, bearing in my you were asked about the 'couple' yet you didn't mention her at all. I suppose that's just how you talk and didn't mean anything by it but be aware that it may sound odd to a third party.

Gunznroses Wed 07-Aug-13 12:46:23

Nagoo grin grin grin

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 12:47:58

You hear 'super' a lot too as in 'super cool' 'super smart'' etc.

I know someone of 44 who says that. It makes me wince for him.

He's also into vinyl records and pronounces it 'rekerd'.

He's from Yeovil originally.

EstelleGetty Wed 07-Aug-13 12:48:14

You should check out his book Role Models, mignonette, I think you'd like it. Really witty, compassionate and hilarious. smile

I watched a programme about Alan Cumming seeking out hidden places in Glasgow the other day, and this thread's reminded me of it. Now there's a man who knows how to twirl the English language round his little finger to wonderful effect!

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 12:49:45

Gunzi think its fair to say, after this thread, that I'm going to be paranoid for some time about what I say blush

The only reason I didn't mention X's wife was the post was about using hipster as a descriptor, which I was applying to him.

And the wonderful children aren't called Keith and Joyce, they're called Maud and George wink

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:50:51

Yes but the context of the thread is about hipsters and the male friend is one so of course he would be the topic of this thread. It isn't about what you call the female partner of a male hipster. (Who may or may not be one too.)

Not really getting why people think it is odd. Bliss is quite a pretty turn of phrase. Different.

ElleMcFearsome Wed 07-Aug-13 12:51:26

Especially about adding 'i' to the end of a name accidentally...

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:52:56

Estelle. Have ordered it after your recommendation as love that kind of thing. I love looking at The Sartorialist to see what is considered 'photographable' style. Some of them are eyebrow raisnhg, some enviably stylish.

Maud is lovely. As is Maeve.

Feminine Wed 07-Aug-13 12:54:56

but a person can't be "utter bliss" it makes no sense.

However, maybe I'm out of touch?

you know though, Elle it really doesn't matter smile

Gunznroses Wed 07-Aug-13 12:55:04

Slight diversion, On Sky News 2 nights ago, I nearly wet myself laughing when someone on the news panel said, 'We better shout it out!", then 'We've got to shout that one out!' in response to where people can go to for more information about a condition.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 12:56:27

Years ago we used to go to an Essex nitespot where the DJ obviously had bigger dreams.

We used to invent the most ridiculous tracks on 12" Japanese import by completely made up bands and request them.

They were always on order or in his dad's garage.

Sometimes I catch this kingsize bell end's show and wonder if it was him.

Shrugged Wed 07-Aug-13 12:58:10

Agree that saying someone is 'utter bliss' sounds wonderfully Mitford-ish. I hope you also describe people as 'too, too delightful, my dear'. grin

If I described someone as a hipster, I would secretly mean something along the lines of 'wanker with a Hoxton fin and tight, complicated trousers', though.

Even though I get my special coffee by mail order from London since I moved to the sticks...

noddyholder Wed 07-Aug-13 13:00:29

God I say super a lot and bliss grin but then again don't give a toss what people think of me

Quenelle Wed 07-Aug-13 13:01:40

I have read the whole thread and I still don't understand. Is Hipster an adjective now, not a noun?

Is it interchangeable with pretentious wanker? In our day we called them '...types'. It was very important to verbalise the '...'.

A muso is an actual musician, not someone who is just into music. DH is a muso. But not a hipster. Or a ...type. As far as I know anyway.

ViviPru Wed 07-Aug-13 13:01:50

complicated trousers

grin

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 13:03:58

And the wonderful children aren't called Keith and Joyce, they're called Maud and George wink

Keith and Joyce are ripe for a comeback. Get ahead of the curve, people.

littlewhitebag Wed 07-Aug-13 13:04:05

My DD who is at Glasgow uni describes people as hipster. It is a particular way of dressing from places like Urban Outfitters. Think Alexa Chung. It is not derogatory.

squoosh Wed 07-Aug-13 13:06:36

Maud and George are so suburban! Keith and Joyce would definitely be hipster kids names.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 13:07:07

Think Alexa Chung. It is not derogatory.

I think I'll be the judge of that.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:08:51

It is both a noun and an adjective Quenelle. You can be a hipster or something can be described as hipster (ish).

Who remembers Stock Aitken & Waterman putting out 'Carwash' on a white label because nobody would play it with their real names on and loads of DJ's started prattling on about how they had discovered this 'obscure' label/musicians and inventing a whole back story about them? Hilarious.

Think Cliff did the same thing....But his still sounded Cliff like.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 13:15:44

Is that the 'Hey, roadblock' one?

I prefer a bit of Kylie and Jason meself wink

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:20:29

Yes 'Roadblock' not Carwash. God I am definitely not hipster.

Snoopingforsoup Wed 07-Aug-13 13:24:14

Isn't 'hipster' another term for 'wanker' or 'bell end'?

In a Nathan Barley sort of way?

That's how it's used around these parts.

WilsonFrickett Wed 07-Aug-13 13:25:50

Uni hipsters are different from aged hipsters though. What is forgiveable on the slim hips of youth is not so much on the scooter-toting, red trouser wearing, bushy beard cultivating form of an actual grown-up man...

Kinnane Wed 07-Aug-13 13:26:16

limitedperiodonly,"We used to describe an erm, individualistic, colleague as a wild-eyed rider on the road to oblivion."

Kinnane Wed 07-Aug-13 13:28:17

sorry!!

limitedperiodonly,"We used to describe an erm, individualistic, colleague as a wild-eyed rider on the road to oblivion."

...made me laugh soooooo much

BorderBinLiner Wed 07-Aug-13 13:35:42

This is one of my favourite sites where hipsters live

WilsonFrickett Wed 07-Aug-13 13:39:38

Border grin

YANBU, hipster is not remotely in the same league as chav. Chav is always looking down upon and dehumanzing, hipster, even in the negative sense, is more poking fun at higher ups.

Hipsters as an insult is usually against someone who has more money than sense and takes great pride in appearing exclusive, knowledgeable, and in their own personal opinions even when it's a thin veneer and ignoring that they do not face the same consequences others do for the same choice. Such as hipster bindis were popular, stick on glitter versions, many went on about how spiritual they were and that they were honouring South Asian culture,completely ignoring that actual Desi girls and women who wear bindis often suffer a lot of harassment and abuse. Hipster jeans & glasses were made popular by that subset and some see it as a badge of honour, those using it as an insult are mainly poking fun at elites.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 13:45:38

Too, too divine border. I notice the pix are from a magazine called Dwell.

I wonder how much mileage there'd be in a men's style magazine called Pants?

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:45:50

Yes to needless glasses wearing LIttle. As someone who detests wearing them and has no choice due to her eyes being damaged by contact lens caused corneal ulceration I hold a special place of contempt in my heart for those who sport them with perfect vision. what next? Wheelchairs, callipers, hearing aids as fashion accessories? Although I guess depicting those as cool as opposed to the usual disdain meted out to some people with disabilities.....Hmmmmm...Not sure where I stand on that one.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:46:37

Try the magazines 'Wallpaper' and 'Love' for hipster heaven.

Silverfoxballs Wed 07-Aug-13 13:56:45

Rather hang out with a chav than a hipster. I had the misfortune to work with lots of people who thought they were off beat and alternative. They try too hard, the only truly alternative people I have ever known have no idea they are.

Thinking back to colleague who wore his expensive sunglasses inside the office.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 13:57:45

DH used to get Wallpaper. He didn't want to, honest, it's just the kind of magazine that would create a certain ambience for certain clients. And I think we all know the kind of people I'm talking about.

After he'd built up a decent collection for them to cream their panties over he cancelled his subscription.

What struck me as the most pretentious thing was that the prices used to be in random currencies - sterling, US dollars, Euros...

I don't know whether that was due to the state of utter bliss in the office or whether currency conversion was all a bit too much for the staff to work out.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 14:00:44

I failed to dodge our office hepcat one evening and had get on the tube with him wearing his sunglasses.

People were sniggering.

Blu Wed 07-Aug-13 14:05:18

Is hipster the new yuppie?

It is used in a very derogatory context in discussions about gentrification on local forums in London.

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 07-Aug-13 14:06:17

Hipster is used as insult - try hard twat is usually what is meant.

EstelleGetty Wed 07-Aug-13 14:08:54

I think Thrift Shop by Macklemore is a good indicator of how the term 'hipster' can be read.

He knows he's a hipster, with his big fur coat and wolf hat, because he does dress hipster in real life but is perfectly capable of taking the piss out of himself for it. While sincerely enjoying the fact that his T-shirt cost 99 cents.

The folk I know who play ukuleles, wear 'ironic' wolf t-shirts and ancient neon plimsolls know fine well they're perceived as a bit ridiculous. But they don't mind.

Blu - yeah, pretty much.

Katiepoes Wed 07-Aug-13 14:11:52

Hipster is definitely an insult in these parts - once a word has been used in the TV guide my inlaws subscribe to you can be sure it is now an insult.

Wallpaper is a hipster magazine in that insulting sense, it's way too mainstream now, you can buy it in Tescos. It's all about Dwell, obscure gallery catalogues and Apartment now. I could tell you more but you would not understand my achingly pre-trend references. I am off to force myself into jeans that cut off my circulation and an ironic blouse once rejected as frumpy by my great-aunt.

(the currency thing btw - it's to allow the wannabe unironic hipster feel they are part of an international continent hopping in-crowd. An in-crowd that paid in GBP in the local Tesco Express)

Macklemore is almost the quintessential hipster, he's well aware of how he appears and puts effort into that image of not caring, can talk for ages about the world's problems and revel in the attention and accolades talking about it gives him, while still being part of the problematic system - knows that he gets him money and attention from the problems in the systems - and doing nothing to change it.

EstelleGetty Wed 07-Aug-13 14:18:58

To be fair, LittleSporks, I'd say he's being pretty decent in his extremely vocal stance against homophobia in a deeply homophobic genre. There's a great video of him doing his pro-equality song Same Love with Tegan and Sara doing the rounds.

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 07-Aug-13 14:22:01

now I like Hepcat limited Miles better than hipster. And funny thread. I would run a mile from the blissful friend that is referred to in the OP. Had a bellyfull of folk like that in my teens and some of them still lurk on my FB posting links to obscure art projects and the like and never seeming to actually do any paid work

CoolStoryBro Wed 07-Aug-13 14:27:08

You can buy Dwell at my local supermarket. It's crap. Too many words and not enough pictures.

TiffanyAtBreakfast Wed 07-Aug-13 14:27:33

Here, calling someone a hipster wouldn't be very offensive but it probably varies from place to place.

As someone else said, I think it means types that hang around wearing beanies and beaten up 'trendy' clothes and listen to underground music that nobody's heard of yet. Probably 20s-305s age group I'd say.

wharrgarbl Wed 07-Aug-13 14:28:58

I think hipster is the noun, and hipsterish is the adjective - something can't be 'so hipster', it just sounds wrong.

I don't have the energy to put that much into my appearance. Too old and cranky for it. Then again, the coolest people don't work that hard at it.

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 14:32:09

"I know someone who turned up to an important sales meeting on a scooter. Not a Vespa, one of those children's things.

He didn't get the contract.

He's a hipster."

grin

limited, you are wearing me out on this thread, you are too good.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 14:36:04

I like the Gentlewoman magazine, Lucky Peach, The Art of the Title, Selvedge and Caught By The River. I dearly hope they are not hipster.

I was led to believe that Dwell is pretty mainstream now by a close relative works for Margaret Howell. I have never read it. Np oictures of hipsters in their empty rooms with an ancient Dansette record player on the floor in the corner next to a pile of random -carefully selected-- vinyl albums and a battered old Glockenspiel.

God this is sounding bad....

Like a hipster, he talks a lot and taken a lot of accolades for being "the first rapper/hip-hop artists to discuss homosexuality". He says if he were gay, he wouldn't be welcome in hip-hop, which is disgusting erasure bullshit, there have been actual LGBT*+ rapper and hip-hop artists discussing their issues for years, and many other hip-hop and rap artists have been speaking out on the issue and challenging gender norms. Is Macklemore bringing any of these hard working artists up when he's getting all this praise? Is he doing anything to broaden the discussion of LGBT*+ and hip-hop beyond white cis straight men who thought they were gay because they can draw? He talks a lot about his privileges in hip-hop, is he doing anything with it? No, he isn't, he's doing a lot of talk, making a lot of money out of other people's problems, and doing no action to actually help.

MarmaladeTwatkins Wed 07-Aug-13 15:54:44

"I know someone who turned up to an important sales meeting on a scooter. Not a Vespa, one of those children's things.

He didn't get the contract.

He's a hipster."

Made me think of this sad

YouTheCat Wed 07-Aug-13 15:59:13

hahahahaha grin

YouTheCat Wed 07-Aug-13 16:00:07

Grown men on BMX bikes makes me want to grab them and shout 'You aren't 12 ffs!'

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 16:50:46

artexmonkey I live in prime red trouser territory and work in TV and film media. I grew up on an Essex council estate. Many's the time I've felt like a stranger in my own land.

I have a painfully hip friend who I really like who introduced me his great friend who I hated. He's a massive twatwad.

First time out he wore dungarees with the ankles rolled up cabin boy-style, a matelot t-shirt and children's plimsolls - the kind with elastic over the instep. He'd accessorised with an early '80s women's Gucci watch on a gilt bracelet.

He looked like a giant baby. It was fucking embarrassing.

He obviously found DH and I tragically unhip and could barely speak to us. He kept doing this narrow-eyed, pouty expression that was probably meant to be mysterious but looked like he was trying to hold in a highly liquid shit.

His name's Dan, but we call him Danigmatic because of that expression.

FunLovinBunster Wed 07-Aug-13 17:09:38

Henry Holland
Alexa Chung
The Geldof Girls
Daisy Lowe
Agyness Deyn.
Yawn. Yawn. Yawn.

limitedperiodonly Wed 07-Aug-13 17:15:50

Really don't like that whole knock-kneed Bambi look that Alexa's working.

seventhchild Wed 07-Aug-13 18:47:43

I think that "Utter bliss" is a lot worse than "Hipster"

ArtexMonkey Wed 07-Aug-13 20:24:45

"First time out he wore dungarees with the ankles rolled up cabin boy-style, a matelot t-shirt and children's plimsolls - the kind with elastic over the instep. He'd accessorised with an early '80s women's Gucci watch on a gilt bracelet."

CRYING at this, oh my god! grin grin grin

It is so Nathan Barley. trashbat.cock indeed.

ViviPru Wed 07-Aug-13 22:09:49

WELL Johnson.

noddyholder Thu 08-Aug-13 09:52:42

Agree with limited the names are on the up. Have heard an Alan and a Sharon recently and I don't even live anywhere near Brick lane

mrsjay Thu 08-Aug-13 09:58:42

We still have C&A in Europe mrsjay, its a blast from the past

No way that is brilliant is it filled with batwing jumpers grin

MissMilliment Thu 08-Aug-13 10:04:18

How many hipsters does it take to change a lightbulb?

It's a really obscure number, you won't have heard of it.

ShatnersBassoon Thu 08-Aug-13 10:06:40

OP, your utterly blissful friend must surely have been a Guardian Weekender at some point. Does he sport an unusual moustache? He'd be described as "Crispin Urquhart, 44, Civil Servant and mixed media artist", and he'd wear his quirkiest plus-fours for the photo.

I know these people exist, but they're like nothing I've ever encountered in real life. I'd be like someone at a zoo if I found myself in one of London's hippest corners.

janey68 Thu 08-Aug-13 10:14:17

I wouldn't equate hipster with Chav, but I would assume it wasnt complimentary. Most people use hipster as a bit of a put down don't they?
(Genuinely confused now!)

curlew Thu 08-Aug-13 10:38:56

Certainly my teen and her friends would never use it as a compliment. Not a killer insult- more affectionately mocking.

YouTheCat Thu 08-Aug-13 10:41:18

That's it. Affectionately mocking. grin

We see loads of them in the town, trying so desperately to be different that they all end up looking the same.

mrsjay Thu 08-Aug-13 10:42:24

Certainly my teen and her friends would never use it as a compliment. Not a killer insult- more affectionately mocking.

Thats what my teen and friends do dd says Hispters are all around me I cant cope grin

BlingBang Thu 08-Aug-13 11:21:25

feeling more hip as i knew what hipster and muso meant and i've never been cool in my life.

this thread has been hilarious - thanks op! heading down to Shoreditch to sit and giggle.

mignonette Thu 08-Aug-13 15:54:30

I have seen the ultimate Hipster disgrace. Leather/Pleather leggings for a toddler here. You may need to scroll down a little to see this abomination.

limitedperiodonly Thu 08-Aug-13 16:05:23

Those leggings are so wrong.

There was a thread on here about whether you should dress a small child in a Ramones t-shirt that got quite heated.

Personally I think Peppa Pig's the way to go until you can develop your own musical taste.

DH's musical taste is so dodgy I'd keep him in a Peppa Pig t-shirt permanently.

SlowlorisIncognito Thu 08-Aug-13 16:18:05

It's not really on the same level as chav to me, because being chav implies worse things about the person and their background. Hipster is basically shorthand for "pretentious wanker", which isn't exactly a nice thing to call someone. They take themselves too seriously, and look faintly ridiculous, whilst thinking they're cool. Everything is "too mainstream" for them.

I think it's both an adjective and a noun, i.e. someone is a hipster, but you can also have hipster clothes, and so on.

Although your friend does sound a bit like a hipster. Sorry. =/

limitedperiodonly Thu 08-Aug-13 16:24:58

When I was 15 I used to moan about bands who sold out. When I got old enough to have to pay my own bills I completely understood the appeal of selling out.

I think the same goes for teenage hipsters and the sad 40-something ones.

mignonette Thu 08-Aug-13 16:28:18

Limited It makes me sad to think how constricted in movement a child in those is going to be. Poor little sods.

limitedperiodonly Thu 08-Aug-13 16:46:18

I think those leggings will squirm their way off and be sent to the charity shop after the first wear grin. Small children don't have the bums to be able to keep them up.

Don't know who'd buy them from there. I might if they were in the 50p bin and I'd cut them into 100 small squares to use as glasses cloths.

I'm steering from from the sexualisation argument of tight leather on children because I think they look more ridiculous than provocative. But who the fuck wants their child to look either?

ArtexMonkey Thu 08-Aug-13 17:00:34

Those leggings shock

That site is hilarious though: "The new line mimics a downtown mom’s dream wardrobe, only shrunken. As founder/designer Colleen Crivello pulled piece after piece in her Tribeca showroom, the only appropriate response to the exquisite tailoring and sweet but sophisticated fall styles was, “Stop it right now.”"

Stop it right now, indeed.

mignonette Thu 08-Aug-13 17:02:15

If a shrunken wardrobe is the latest thing Artex then I'll ask my DS to do the next load of washing then.

Absy Thu 08-Aug-13 17:20:42

Cosmo Kramer (in Seinfeld) was the original hipster in my opinion - Jerry even refers to him as a "hipster doofus"!

The evidence:
penchant for vintage clothing
"quirkiness"
trousers pulled up showing his socks
"goofy" hair

Absy Thu 08-Aug-13 17:27:59

A friend was visiting London from another country, and arranged to have drinks in Shoreditch. I lasted about 20 minutes before I had to get out of their- my skin was CRAWLING from all the hipsters. Poor friend didn't realise what he'd made us go to sad

limitedperiodonly Thu 08-Aug-13 17:40:53

I did a piece on the price of childhood if money was no object and you were mad.

At the time there wasn't a hipster way to spunk money on baby clothes.

I concentrated Bonpoint and Baby Dior which are shock. I prefer Bonpoint to Baby Dior, but that's because I tend more towards trad than bling, which further marks me out as tragically unhip. Unfortunately I'm poor as well.

I found a Clements Ribeiro cashmere cardi for £150 (we're talking at least 15 years ago) that was lovely but hot and destined to get ruined in a horrible back-of-the-nappy shit incident.

I'd rather buy a cashmere cardi for myself. Happy mum, happy baby and all that wink

mignonette Fri 09-Aug-13 09:47:30

What Brooklyn Hipster kids take for lunch....here. These are the packed lunches of the twins belonging to former NY Times Food editor Amanda Hesser. She poaches tuna for them to take. There are no words. And I thought the stacked sandwiches my kids took were the bomb grin

mignonette Fri 09-Aug-13 09:48:44

Bonpoint is very cool now Limited and I love Clements Ribeiro...on me.

TobyLerone Fri 09-Aug-13 09:50:42

It's not an insult! How ridiculous.

DoJo Fri 09-Aug-13 23:10:35

It is when I say it TobyLerone!

wharrgarbl Fri 09-Aug-13 23:19:16

Re hipsters in general, I'm not sure anything that calculated can be cool.

BlingBang Sat 10-Aug-13 08:19:29

calculated is exactly right and pretentious. it's not cool when you have to try so hard. but they make life interesting.

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