to think having enough fuel in a plane is quite important if there's an emergency and most people would probably pay a bit of money to ensure their plane does not crash

(94 Posts)
kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 08:41:29

A certain budget airline has been accused of restricting the amount of fuel planes carry to the legal minimum which makes handling emergencies and diversions more difficult.

But of course - it does save money and cut costs so that's ok.

Looking forward to a reserve fuel supplement coming soon to the final bill.

Tee2072 Wed 07-Aug-13 08:45:32

Yet another reason to never fly Ryanair.

TheFallenNinja Wed 07-Aug-13 08:58:08

I'm a bit confused by the article.

It says that the flight had 2 missed approaches and a diversion and landed with 956kg of fuel, 183kg less than the legal reserve.

But the legal reserve is for exactly this circumstance so a small quantity of the reserve was used?

I'm not a Ryanair fan but this seems right to me? Or should the legal minimum be increased?

Sirzy Wed 07-Aug-13 08:59:33

thats what I thought Ninja. What else is the point of the reserve?

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:06:24

You're supposed to land with the minimum amount of fuel - the legal reserve. You're not supposed to land without that. It seems that from reading the article that they were "pushing it" on the amount of fuel they were carrying.

Obviously fuel is expensive and even carrying it costs money as you've got extra weight.

But you do hope that pressure is not being put on pilots to not use their professional judgement and not face criticism if they decide to take more than the legal minimum because of what conditions may be ahead.

Sirzy Wed 07-Aug-13 09:10:19

Surely your only supposed to land with that amount when it has been a normal flight though? The reseve is for when something foes wrong.

peggotty Wed 07-Aug-13 09:14:17

God why did I open this. Flying Ryanair a week on Saturday sad

peggotty Wed 07-Aug-13 09:15:14

And already a nervous flyer.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:18:29

Gulp. I am flying FlyBe next week. I do wonder as regards budget airlines, quite which "savings" they are doing behind the scenes.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:19:33

I would have thought, as regards Ryanair, that they will do as required re this issue, for a few weeks at least.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 09:21:13

The reserve fuel is there for when there's a problem, though. In this case, there was a problem with landing the plane. So, they used some of the reserve fuel on the two missed approaches and the diversion. If the plane had been able to land normally, there's every chance they'd have landed with the legal amount left.

I've had plenty of flights when there's been delays with landings and we've had to circle overhead for 15-30 minutes, and I'm sure we landed with less than the legal amount of reserve fuel, because it wasn't a "normal" landing. And that was with BA.

Just another excuse to bash Ryanair imo.

TheFantasticFixit Wed 07-Aug-13 09:25:32

Peggoty - we are flying with them next month - I feel your pain. All this negative press at the moment is making me very nervous

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:30:56

It does not sound like there was much fuel left if another problem had turned up - about 15 mins flying time which seems to me to be not a lot.

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:32:23

And the article did suggest pressure was being put on pilots to carry the minimum amount of fuel to stay within legal limits.

HRHwheezing Wed 07-Aug-13 09:34:49

And you think that Ryanair pilots would like their planes to crash by not putting in enough fuel?
I wouldn't worry peggotty have a lovely time

They have been told to slow down a bit so that saves cash not by putting not enough fuel on the plane.

This story is 3 years old.i don't like how this article gives the pilots ages as well, what's that got to do with it. Ryanair are a European airline so will have pilots of different nationalities and ages flying for them.

I agree with living

flowery Wed 07-Aug-13 09:38:08

If the minimum fuel to stay within legal limits isn't enough then doesn't the legal limit need to be raised rather than criticising airlines who stay within it?

It does sound from the article as though having more would have been sensible, but if what they were carrying wasn't enough, but was within the legal minimum, the minimum needs to be raised. No point having a minimum at all if it's not considered safe to stick to it.

MrsHoarder Wed 07-Aug-13 09:42:40

kim also in the event of a landing gear failure the plane is told to get its fuel level right down before attempting landing to minimise fire risk. So more fuel isn't always safer.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 09:44:58

I also agree with flowery. If Ryanair sticking to the LEGAL LIMIT is considered too dangerous, then the legal limit needs to be raised.

The article really goes for Ryanair, without giving any information about what other airlines do.

Landing with too much fuel has its dangers as well - there's a balance of risks, cost and safety to consider. From memory, Ryanair's safety record is OK - if I get some free time later I might research that aspect some more.

PasswordProtected Wed 07-Aug-13 09:52:47

Am going to text toyboy, who is a real, commercial airline pilot, to ask about this.

Bumpotato Wed 07-Aug-13 09:54:02

livinginwonderland did BA tell the passengers the fuel levels after the flight? Were the passengers aware of the fuel levels while circling? How, erm, exciting!

The only time I've been made aware of fuel levels during a flight was just prior to an emergency landing.

Was hearing the other day that airlines keep levels low also in order to get priority in queuing situations when landing.

DontmindifIdo Wed 07-Aug-13 09:54:05

Why does anyone fly Ryanair if there's any other airline running the route? I mean, once you've added on all your extra charges and paid for travelling to out of way airports rather than other airports for that city with better transport links, then you often are only saving a couple of quid in order for you and your stuff to be treated like shit.

They get away with it because people for some reason only look at the 'headline' rate and don't do the total cost comparasions - Easyjet does seem to manage to be much more genuinely low cost without treating people quite so badly and managing to get your stuff to the other end in one piece...

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 10:01:26

No, we weren't told, but we were in the air for at least an hour longer than planned thanks to poor weather (which caused visibility and landing problems) so I can only imagine that it ate into emergency reserves.

Tee2072 Wed 07-Aug-13 10:07:45

The article is dated this month. It's not 3 years old.

HelgatheHairy Wed 07-Aug-13 10:11:02

I was on a Ryanair flight 2 years ago in December. We were supposed to be flying into Frankfurt hanh in Germany but due to terrible weather they closed the airport and we had to divert. The pilot told us this over the intercom. About 30 minutes after we should have landed he came back on the intercom to inform us that he'd hoped to land in X but he didnt have much fuel left so had to divert to Y.

I've never heard a plane so quite in my life.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 10:23:05

The article might be dated this month but the info in it is old. There were articles about this back in 2010 at least.

DayOldCheesecake Wed 07-Aug-13 10:30:57

Yep, info is old, old, old.

Surely everyone knows that Ryanair are a safety hazard and that they pay their pilots peanuts so only get the shit ones.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 10:37:12

The Spanish report about the ryanair incident is only out recently. That is why the independent are talking about it.

I am only flying flybe because round here, there is only the choice of a budget airline or nowt. Others in my party are refusing to travel several hundred miles by other transport means, which I want to use.

To be fair to the budget airlines, there haven't been catastrophes yet..

MidniteScribbler Wed 07-Aug-13 10:44:17

If they're carrying the legal limit, then they aren't breaking any laws as far as I can see. Reserve fuel is just what it says on the label - reserve, in case of delay or diversion.

If people weren't so obsessed with paying peanuts for a flight, and thinking that it's some sort of "right" to cheap travel, airlines wouldn't be looking for ways to cut costs as much as possible.

starfishmummy Wed 07-Aug-13 10:44:51

I think that as planes are obviously dropping out of the sky all the time due to lack of fuel, we should immediately ban all air travel

MildredIsMyAlterEgo Wed 07-Aug-13 11:08:08

starfish grin

Between us OH and I make around 8 return flights a year with Ryanair and have done for the past 6 years or so. The only problems we've ever encountered have been due to weather related diversions/airport closure.

I like Ryanair smile

PasswordProtected Wed 07-Aug-13 11:26:13

OK, just got answer from senior pilot (25+ years' experience with major European airline).
Minimum requirement for fuel is from start airport to destination plus enough for 45 minutes' holding time plus flight to an alternative airport with standard approach procedure.
Of course everyone knows that O'Leary makes these statements to get publicity.

flowery Wed 07-Aug-13 11:32:40

"Minimum requirement for fuel is from start airport to destination plus enough for 45 minutes' holding time plus flight to an alternative airport with standard approach procedure"

That sounds like plenty to me. Is this a fuss over nothing?

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 11:45:00

Of course it is, flowery. Just another excuse to bash Ryanair!

Tee2072 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:19:13

Ryanair deserves every bashing it gets. They are hardly an upstanding company!

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 12:27:14

Why do they? Why are they SO much worse than any other airline? They're cheap, they're on time and I don't know anyone whose every had a problem with them. If you don't want to fly with them, fine, but I don't see how they're any worse than anyone else.

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:32:37

Why are they cheap?

Do you know the contracts the staff are employed under? The staff have to pay for their own training. The pilots are unhappy because of their conditions.

They're on time - if you play round with the stats and then also assume it takes longer to get to a destination than it actually does. I've also got a friend who is a pilot for another budget airline and we've discussed lots of this issues.

Sure - no plane has crashed. Yet. But cheap is cheap for a reason and personally I want my aircrew and pilots to be happy in their work and not to be under pressure to cut corners - even if it's still within legal limits.

sashh Wed 07-Aug-13 12:34:50

To be fair to the budget airlines, there haven't been catastrophes yet..

Not with UK carriers but there certainly have in the US, and Ryanair is modeled on the US budget carriers. Check out Colgan Air 3407

It's not just the fuel, has your pilot had a propper rest before flying? What about the copilot? How well trained are the crew? How experienced is every crew member?

Then there is the ground crew, has the plane been deiced if it is cold? Have the pito tubes been covered? Was the maintenance done overnight in a hurry? Who did the maintenance? (many airlines don't do their own, Virgin used to, may still be, serviced by BA engineers)

When the pilot walks around the plane before a flight and sees a grey mark do they assume it's a bit of dirt or call maintenance to check it is dirt and not structural damage?

OK back to the fuel, has whoever filled the plane done it in metric or imperial measures? Has the pilot noticed?

<yes I do watch a lot of air crash investigations>

Shenanagins Wed 07-Aug-13 12:41:28

I seem to recall similar concerns being raised by British authorities in relation to Aeroflot flying over London. I can't remember the outcome but the consequences could have been catastrophic, not a risk i would like to take.

Rooners Wed 07-Aug-13 12:43:26

I don't fly anyway. I think it's asking for trouble, because once you're up there, there's only one way to get down.

Sorry...I am at the height of my AS on this topic! no one will ever convince me that flying, large scale, for no good reason is a sensible thing to do.

Tee2072 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:48:34

Why are they worse? Have you ever read the stories in here and elsewhere?

It's no longer "budget" if you have to pay £££ for what others provide in their price.

I paid £15 a ticket on BA recently, not including taxes, and had 51 pounds of baggage allowance, for example.

AnnabelleLee Wed 07-Aug-13 12:53:42

This is really stupid scaremongering.
If you don't like Ryanair, don't use them.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:57:05

This happened with DS's flight last week. They needed to land at Gatwick but as they came in the pilot had to abort landing due to ground fog. They had not enough fuel to go intoa holding pattern so the plane got diverted to Stansted at 1 a.m, was then refuelled and flew back to Gatwick arriving three hours late.

I thought that night landings were banned at Stansted too.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 12:57:27

And he flew with Thompson BTW

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 12:58:24

Having reread the independent article, it seems to me that Ryanair pilots can take an extra 300kg of fuel for emergencies. They are advised by higher ups at ryanair to take 150kgs. But this particular pilot took 0kgs.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:04:27

We stopped using Ryanair. On our last flight with them we were seated in the last row when a man came and sat next to us near the aisle. He then got up, left a large briefcase on his seat, wandered up the aisle and disappeared. We couldn't see him and upon alerting the staff that a large bag had apparently been abandoned, they were totally uninterested (presumably so they could stick to their punishing schedules.) We kicked up a polite but firm fuss, told other passengers and after five minutes and very grudgingly, they put out an alert.

Turns out the guy had left the bag, got off the plane, wandered back to the terminal for some reason not known then come back and boarded the plane via a different stairway and sat at the front.

Ryanair were perfectly happy to fly that plane in the full knowledge that a piece of baggage had apparently been abandoned on it.

So they lost at least 30 flights a year worth of custom.

pigletmania Wed 07-Aug-13 13:05:07

I wisgph I had not, I'm flying Ryanair in a few weeks shock

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:10:28

Just keep your eyes peeled Piglet and ask them how much fuel they have grin.

Just don't shout 'fill 'er up son' at the ground staff.

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 13:14:05

I'm just looking to the day when they weigh each passenger and charge you according to the overall weight.

A heavier plane is more fuel.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 13:17:01

I have read the stories, and all of them are as a result of people not following the rules laid down by Ryanair on their website

Ryanair are cheap if you follow their rules. Everyone knows that they charge extra for hold luggage, food, printing boarding cards etc - if you're not happy to pay extra for those, then fly with another airline. It's not as though they're surprise added costs. It's right there when you pay on their website.

So what if the staff are made to pay for their own training?! Nobody is forcing them to train there. If they don't want to pay, they can choose to fly with a different airline!

tmae Wed 07-Aug-13 13:18:59

If you pay a small fare you can't expect a company to go further than the legal limits, that is one of the ways they save money!

I wouldn't expect them to with maintenance, fuelling, training, service etc. not a criticism, if you want to fly low cost you get what you pay for.

whois Wed 07-Aug-13 13:19:16

Check out if you like a bit of Ryanair bashing.

MrsHoarder Wed 07-Aug-13 13:20:33

living have you not noticed the unemployment situation? People are forced to take jobs which they may not particularly want.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 13:29:27

living, in that case, it may well be a case of ryanair getting the worst pilots. Because potential pilots are going to try other airlines first where they can get their training paid for.
The more I think about this, the worse it is, living.

livinginwonderland Wed 07-Aug-13 13:32:11

Well, don't fly with them then. Pilots from ANY airline can be tired, have too little sleep, fly when they're sick, for example. If you don't want to fly with Ryanair, fine, but criticising them when they operate within the limits of the law makes no sense to me. The LAW should be criticised, not the airlines that obey it.

ndep Wed 07-Aug-13 13:35:47

I've name changed for this.

DH was a pilot, both in the RAF & commercially for 30+ years. He refuses to fly Ryan Air (and a few other airlines) as he has safety concerns about them.

I suspect I'd better not say what they are - don't want to get MNHQ in to trouble - but they are valid.

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:40:39

Do tell NDEp. Why would they cause trouble for MNHQ if they are true?

mignonette Wed 07-Aug-13 13:41:57

Actually that was naive of me. Guess needless legal fees are not what MN wants to pay to keep the snapping Michael Ryan at bay. Even if what youi say is sadly the truth. PM me instead....wink

difficultpickle Wed 07-Aug-13 13:45:33

Do not read my post if you are a nervous flyer

I am less concerned about fuel reserves than I am about the pressure on budget airline pilots and their flying hours and limited breaks. I heard an interview on the radio recently with a budget airline pilot and on the basis of what he said I will never again fly a budget airline.

theodorakisses Wed 07-Aug-13 14:22:26

During the great snow a few years ago, our heathrow bound qatar airways plane had to stop for refuelling halfway as they knew they would have to circle for ages and\or divert.. As israel was not an option and everyone else was full we literally had to turnround and fly backtowards Doha.

expilotwife Wed 07-Aug-13 14:34:30

NDEp Same here DH would never fly Ryanair if it was the last airline on earth. My father was an Air Traffic Control Officer for 35 years, I know who I will and won't fly with. DB a pilot, DS a pilot, DBIL a pilot, my family have wings!

I did fly once with an airline I can't remember which, but we had to land somewhere obscure in France and the pilot had to ask if someone had a credit card that would take 10,000 Francs as their Airline fuel card wasn't valid at this tiny airport!

R***air, fly if you dare, Air F****e take your chance,
and many more!

theodorakisses Wed 07-Aug-13 14:41:53

I have also been on a flight where we were the only people in business and the crew asked if we would mind moving to the front so the pilots could sleep. They camedown, leaving the plane on auto with the flight deck door open and slept.

Hang on, why am I defending crappo jet type airlines? I hate them too but for the exploitation of people who think its agood deal or think they are more right on than decent flights, thosewith food and decent service

HRHwheezing Wed 07-Aug-13 21:08:22

I take exception to the fact that Ryanair pilots are not trained properly.

The facts in the article are not correct.

The plane should have landed in Madrid but there were large thunderstorms so were diverted to Valencia.

The atc were being arsy with Ryanair and made them circle so the pilot called their bluff and declared a mayday.

The Spanish atc got fired for this

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 21:31:49

livinginwonderland. How do you know so much.
Do you have proof that they are abiding by the law?
Some of us very much suspect that they do not.
You can carry on trusting them as much as other airlines if you want to.

HRHwheezing. How do you know that the article is not correct?

There are some strange posts on this thread.

HRHwheezing Wed 07-Aug-13 21:40:26

My husband works for Ryanair

difficultpickle Wed 07-Aug-13 21:51:19

HRH if he is a pilot is he concerned about the flying time/breaks issue?

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 21:51:52

Is he one of the self employed pilots? The ones who if they can't work, they don't get paid. And who have to pay for their uniform, transport and hotel accommodation themselves?

I'm sure they aren't breaking any laws. But a happy staff with no pressure on them inspires me with more confidence to fly with than a staff who are under pressure and not treated very well.

theodorakisses Wed 07-Aug-13 21:52:22

Good luck

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 21:52:49

Or the pressure on turn around times at airports so full checks might not be made?

theodorakisses Wed 07-Aug-13 21:55:34

Well he is identifiable by this

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:05:13

ooh, we can ask HRH lots of questions.

What is wrong about the article?
How much emergency fuel does he put in 300kgs, 150kgs or 0 kgs.
Are there dicktats that he gets that he doesnt like/doesnt approve of/thinks are dangerous?

HRHwheezing Wed 07-Aug-13 22:10:02

In what way Theodora? I haven't said what my husband does for Ryanair.

I would have no problem flying with Ryanair, the checks might not be made no matter who you fly with.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:15:36

Oh he isnt a pilot?

hmm, what does he do?
Because for you to say the article is not correct, is really going to have to mean he is management or something.
If your husband fuels the aircraft or is a baggage handler for example, that would mean he and you wouldnt know any more than anyone else.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:17:31

The pilot had 0 emergency fuel.
And he called the spanish atc's bluff?

HRHwheezing Wed 07-Aug-13 22:20:50

article bbc article about it
This is from last year no more or less than what I said

kim147 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:25:01

And the report is the one from the Spanish authorities released this week.

Are you suggesting the Spanish authorities are mis reporting stuff?

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:31:42

HRHwheezing. Are you saying that the pilots were lying, or that they were not?
Are you saying that pilots go about with 0 emergency fuel, or that they dont?

HRHwheezing Wed 07-Aug-13 22:36:09

Ryanair are a wonderful airline and I don't have a problem flying with them

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:40:05

Look. I can write, my cousin is a prince in Nepal.
Its easy to write that.
I dont know a thing about Nepal.
You are not telling us a thing about ryanair. Just writing, my husband works for ryanair.

Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 22:41:04

In fact, what you are not writing, is starting to become a bit disconcerting to me.

MildredIsMyAlterEgo Wed 07-Aug-13 23:12:08
Caster8 Wed 07-Aug-13 23:18:33

Will definitely watch that. It says it is a programme about concerns from pilots about passenger safety. Heck.

After working in an airport and seeing that the majority of cock ups when landing are down to Ryanair planes, I personally feel they should carry more emergency fuel than any other airline, provide bloody parachutes for the passengers, or just stop flying altogether!

Plane landed THE WRONG WAY on the runway and closed the whole airport? Check
Pilot, and copilot, fell asleep and crash landed? Check, several times over
Pilot allowed a trainee, with no flying hours, to land the plane, overshot the runway and narrowly missed a nasty crash? Check
Plane took off, ignored where they should be going and went in completely the wrong direction, narrowly missing another plane? Check, five times in the last year!!

ndep Mon 12-Aug-13 22:27:57

Did anyone else watch 'Dispatches' on C4?

As DH said, Ryan are are regulated by the Irish Aviation Authority.

BA, Easy Jet etc are regulated by the CAA.

Says a lot.

And if you didn't have insider info that program was an eye opener!

Caster8 Mon 12-Aug-13 22:29:49

Have recorded it. Will try and watch it tomorrow.

Caster8 Tue 13-Aug-13 13:11:17

Wiping voice recorders. No way.

And zero hours contracts. Nice.

Oh what a company.

AnyCraic Tue 13-Aug-13 13:36:20

ndep I take great offence at your (DH) comment regarding the IAA regulation of Ryanair. What exactly do you mean by that?
They are an Irish airline so naturally they should be regulated by the IAA. Are you trying to imply their standards are not up to scratch?

By the way, I watched the programme and fly Ryanair regularly enough to have concerns. However I am sure everything is within the regulations, even if that means "just within". Please don't try to imply that Irish aviation standards are in any way questionable.

ndep Tue 13-Aug-13 13:52:21

Any - I don't know why you are taking offence. The IAA allows considerably longer working hours for pilots which most pilots are not happy about.

PasswordProtected Tue 13-Aug-13 15:39:52

the only airline I can get, reliable, inside information on does not train its pilots for free. They have to pay back the cost of their training during the first few years of proper employment. Also free flights for pilots is a thing of the past.

Caster8 Tue 13-Aug-13 15:54:06

Things are not so rosy for pilots generally any more, it seems.

Backinthebox Tue 13-Aug-13 17:11:53

Late to this party! Commercial airline pilot here, flying Boeing jets for more years than the 2 Ryanair pilots in the Indy article had put together.

Let me briefly explain about reserve fuel. We carry:
Trip fuel - for the planned trip (which assumes no unforseen events such as bad weather, broken plane, airport closure, etc)
Alternate fuel - which is supposed to be for making a diversion if a problem occurs during the flight.
Reserve fuel - as explained above, this is enough fuel to fly for 30 (or 45, depending on the authority) mins at 1500ft. It is called reserve fuel, but we HAVE to land with it as a bare minimum or declare a Mayday. Declaring a Mayday, in turn, MUST be investigated by the appropriate authority. In this case, the Spanish authorities. No one is specifically out to 'get' Ryanair here, the Spanish aviation authority would be remiss and not carrying out it's duty if it didn't do it.
Contingency fuel - which is for unforseen events. It must be a minimum of 5% or 5 minutes of flying time, whichever is the greater. We may not plan to use this fuel at planning stage. In my airline contingency fuel is worked out using statistical fuel usage from the same flights in the past.
The last bit of fuel we put on is Extra fuel, an amount put on board at the pilots' discretion. We need a valid reason for putting it on, but generally pilots use their experience and knowledge. Reasons can include bad weather expected (whether officially forecast or from past experience. Eg, I know that a tiny thunderstorm in Europe would lead to a 20 minute delay. In the States, there would be meltdown and an hour's extra fuel would not be unreasonable,) air traffic 'issues,' eg I know that if you fly to Madrid, unless you are a Spanish national carrier you WILL be dicked about by air traffic. Happens every time!

So there we go, a bit about fuel.

Wrt to this particular incident, the reason it is news is because Ryanair are having a few too many of this kind of incident. Every airline has the potential to have a rare 'landing below reserve fuel' incident, and if they do it is investigated. The Spanish authorities are highlighting it because Ryanair are routinely sending it's flights off to Spain with no extra fuel on at all, even when thunderstorms are forecast. Last year they declared 3 Maydays in one day, one of those flights landed below reserves, the other 2 landed with only kilograms to spare. Frankly, 300kgs extra fuel flying to Madrid on a busy stormy day is a bit useless - it gives you no more than about 10 minutes spare on a B737. I would have been wanting to put on a ton extra (and stuff what my company think - it's my bottom that would be splattered over a Spanish mountainside if it all went wrong! Fortunately for me, my company have never questioned my fuel decisions.)

More interesting reading on the Ryanair Spanish fuel story here. As you can see, there were other people diverted, but only 4 of them declared Maydays, 3 by Ryanair. Once an aircraft has declared a Mayday it places pressure on all aviation in the immediate vicinity. There is a train of thought that Ryanair declared Maydays in order to improve their 'place in the queue.'

At this moment in time, Ryanair's safety record, as defined by actual accidents that have occurred, is good. If you look at the 'near misses,' it starts to get worrying. Google Ryanair Memmingen and Ciampino to see information on examples of Ryanair management pressure leading to incidents they were lucky to get away with.

ndep Tue 13-Aug-13 17:28:53

Most interesting, Back & there are many of the reasons that I won't fly with Ryan Air.

The extra fuel is important - DH flew in the oil industry - it was vital to have total discretion about this.

Caster8 Tue 13-Aug-13 17:42:24

I have almost a dread feeling that Michael O'Learys life is not going to end well. An air company that is routinely taking risks will come a cropper. And when it does, unless Mr O'Leary has no feelings whatsoever, the buck of responsibility will stop with him.

Caster8 Tue 13-Aug-13 17:46:22

You would have thought that ryanair would have altered it's fuel policy from on high - taking away those awful fuel league tables would be a start[who wants to be on the planes with the winners, shock, Mr Leary himself perhaps]. But no, nothing appears to have altered since when the 2010 incidents came to life.

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