to think that a lot (but not all) "Gentle Parenting" FB pages are full of sneery nobbers?

(295 Posts)
Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 08:37:22

Inspired by a post by MrsDeVere, and the fact that I have just removed myself from FOUR of these pages, I'm reaching the conclusion that despite the high ideals, there are a lot of judgemental sneery fuckers on these pages, clueless about anything beyond their own nose.

[and relax]

CocacolaMum Mon 05-Aug-13 08:39:40

What the hell is "Gentle Parenting"?!

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 08:40:45

Have a search on Facebook - at your peril!!!

CocacolaMum Mon 05-Aug-13 08:50:59

Umm ok. When are parents (not just mums but tbh we seem to be more guilty) going to just put their hands up and admit that extreme ideals of parenting are ridiculous and almost never about the child? That actually whatever gets you through the day and ideally ends with a hug at bedtime rather than you crying from frustration at another day spent feeling like you are speaking to a brick wall is pretty fucking good parenting??

SnoopySnoopyDoggDogg Mon 05-Aug-13 08:51:06

Although I suspect you will get told otherwise, you're right in the most part. I've been a member of a few but have left as I found them very "them & us" and extremely sneery in a manner disguised as "concern" or other thinly veiled twattery.

Shame though as there are also some lovely supportive sites out there.

SnoopySnoopyDoggDogg Mon 05-Aug-13 08:53:14

cocacolamum I think you've said it well, extreme parenting is too often about the parents ideals, the children couldn't give two stuffs as long as they are loved and fed.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 08:53:33

Yes yes.

MalcolmTuckersMum Mon 05-Aug-13 08:54:38

Who even knew this stuff existed?

And to save me going right off on one - absolutely what CocaColaMum said. Read that and then read it again. When you've done that dump all the FB bollocks unless you particularly enjoy torturing yourself every hour of every day when your situation and decisions don't quite match the made up buggering nonsense on these pages.

petuniapickletits Mon 05-Aug-13 08:56:49

snoopy.. 'extreme parenting'?

im on a few local natural parenting pages and have yet to feel 'them and us' or snobbery about it.

I have friends who parent differently but are just as devoted to their children, and we are all great parents. We just have different parenting techniques.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 08:59:44

I've lost my rag this morning be ause I posted looking for things to do over the holidays with my 3, the eldest of which is 4, plus 2 year old twins. One reply was "why not take them swimming?" Apart from the obvious ratio rules, I asked how did that work - getting three undressed/dressed plus myself, and then getting into the baby pool. And was told that my children should have confidence in the water by now so long as they're in their own depth and all it took was my own confidence in my abilities as a "mamma" (ugh!) and they would be fine. angry

Yeah. Right.

Our local pool does have a very good baby bit which is ankle deep, but it doesn't make the whole episode any less dangerous - regardless of my confidence as a mamma.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 09:04:40

Petuniapickletits if you've never felt it, then you probably confirm to their ideals closer than I can.
I didn't use cloth nappies - I discussed it with my local council who do an excellent cloth nappy scheme but said I had 3 in nappies and the lady there said "save the planet another day, love!" grin

That sort of thing...

RandallPinkFloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 09:06:07

Oh, know I shouldn't laugh but that priceless! grin

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 09:12:10

I think a LOT of FB "parenting" pages are full of sneery nobbers - for any of these labelled parenting movements. If they had all the answers and their way was so utterly awesome and a miracle way of working - the bullying evangelism and harassment of anyone NOT doing it wouldn't be required would it?

DoctorRobert Mon 05-Aug-13 09:12:53

YANBU. I have a few AP style pages on my FB, and the posts on there can be extremely sanctimonious. I keep meaning to unlike them all so they don't keep appearing on my feed actually.

pianodoodle Mon 05-Aug-13 09:52:59

How do people manage to make such a conscious choice about stuff like that? What exactly does an "attachment" parent do and is there any way of opting out?!

I can't even go for a piss without DD (25 mnths) standing beside me providing a running commentary.

Am I an attachment parent? Or just harrassed? grin

I've tried hiding at the bottom of the garden but they always bloody find you!

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Mon 05-Aug-13 09:58:19

I unliked a huge number of such pages because of the nobbishness. I'm on board with most of the AP stuff, but the minute they start about anti-vaccination stuff, I have to walk away.

YANBU.

RobotHamster Mon 05-Aug-13 10:00:19

I thought all the FB parenting pages were OTT like this? Though I have to confess, I'd never heard of 'gentle parenting' before.

RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 10:03:36

Fourwillies - have you got something else going on? Why would you get so het up about that?

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 10:09:54

Its not just the facebook pages, there are wnole forums full of the twats. Bleating on about what angels they are for staying in the bedroom with a violent and agressive tired toddler kicking and biting them because somehow that is nore 'gentle' than leaving them alone for five minutes to fall asleep. No, we must stay with them every second despite the fact it means they don't get a decent nifhts sleep and spend all day miserable.

To be honest some of thr most pathetic parenting I have ever reac avout has been on 'gentle parenting' forums and I've seen some shocking things too, like parents 'talking through' an issue with a child who clearly wants to be left alone to the point of bullying, or children getting a tiny cob on and saying thry 'want to stay in the car' rather than go to the park with frie ds and instead of bring told to snap out od it, being pandered to until it turns into a control battle and eventually chikd goes home feeling guilty and hurt.

People don't seem to realise that you don't parent a generic kid in a book, you parent your own kid and they are all different. This 'one size fits all' parenting novel bullshit annoys me endlessly

RobotHamster Mon 05-Aug-13 10:12:20

Sounds more like non parenting to me wink

PoppyAmex Mon 05-Aug-13 10:14:17

"When are parents (not just mums but tbh we seem to be more guilty) going to just put their hands up and admit that extreme ideals of parenting are ridiculous and almost never about the child? That actually whatever gets you through the day and ideally ends with a hug at bedtime rather than you crying from frustration at another day spent feeling like you are speaking to a brick wall is pretty fucking good parenting??"

Had to paste this, as it's such a good post - I totally agree, CocacolaMum.

<off to research "gentle parenting">

MalcolmTuckersMum Mon 05-Aug-13 10:14:22

RedBreast - why would she get so upset about what? You already sound like 'one of them' tbh so I'm dying to see your next move grin

CabbageLooking Mon 05-Aug-13 10:17:01

HAHAHAHA! And yes, completely agree. These pages are generally dominated by people with an agenda who want to force it upon you. FWIW my understanding of attachment parenting in its most basic form is "being nice to your child". Which is fine. Other people appear to interpret it as "sacrifice all your own needs on the altar of The Child. If you are having enough sleep; eating properly or managing to hold an occasional adult conversation then you are clearly a Bad and Neglectful Parent". Grrrr.

HoleyGhost Mon 05-Aug-13 10:19:35

There is sometimes a fine line between attachment parenting and martyrdom.

Parental sacrifice is not necessarily in a child's interest

CabbageLooking Mon 05-Aug-13 10:20:36

Oh and I can not abide people who refer to "Mamas". <Trots off to gag on the cloying awfulness of it>

PoppyAmex Mon 05-Aug-13 10:20:46

"Fourwillies - have you got something else going on? Why would you get so het up about that?"

Well, for starters OP got terrible advice on water safety with babies; "trusting your abilities as a mamma" to supervise 3 babies in a pool...

That's hardly an example of stellar parenting.

Burmobasher Mon 05-Aug-13 10:24:22

Yanbu.
I have noticed a lot of "baby wearing" pages on FB recently. Don't get me wrong, I think slings are great but I don't need to see 50 photos of the same baby sat in different coloured slings.
And as for baby wearing consultants, you can fuck right off, I don't need some smug git telling me how to transport my own child.

Couldn't agree more. I unliked a page only this morning.
If I'm honest I've tried all the gentle parenting stuff and most of it just doesn't seem to work for my son. He is nearly 4, and an absolute whirlwind. He seems to respond better to clear boundaries and when I am firmer. Still very much of the gentler persuasion compared to friends who take the more mainstream approach, but I find a mix of the two works the best for us.

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 10:29:43

Here's how to go swimming with a four year old and 2 year old twins......... don't. Unleash them in the soft play centre instead.

I found myself at a slingmeet earlier this year, that was weird. People who meet up every month just because they "wear" their babies. I can tell you I had zero to talk to any of them about. Anyway the kids were all lovely and placid and happy to play quietly, whilst mine ran around screaming like a lunatic. We stuck out, a lot.

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 10:38:17

they are just shite Ive a few friends on them and they post things from them it seems that non gentle/natural parents are just monsters, I once saw one with a playpen being referred to a jail confused

Madmum24 Mon 05-Aug-13 10:47:12

Yeah I am on a few natural (which usually translates to gentle) parenting forums and the smuggery/martyrdom that goes on is rather hilarious. You get someone posting about how their child is spitting all over the house, and all "gentle" methods have not resolved this, so martyr mama has been up all night scrubbing the walls/carpets.settees from saliva (with said child on a sling on her back because it would be cruel to separate them). Then you get the replies "Oh gentle, loving Mama, it's not easy being a gentle, loving parent, is it hun?"

Madmum24 Mon 05-Aug-13 10:49:07

I also saw on a blog a few days ago a post a mama Mum had done with a pic of her baby at the breast, along with a very twee script of the baby telling his mother "this is my favourite place, it's where all of the cool babies hang out" For God's sake.....

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 10:49:34

"Oh gentle, loving Mama, it's not easy being a gentle, loving parent, is it hun?"

which translates too you big softie let your child walk all over you it is ok we love you for doing that hmm

bragmatic Mon 05-Aug-13 10:53:16

And the 'Natural Parenting' equivalent are full of anti-vacc big 'farma' conspiracy theorists with a babies who have 'never had to see a doctor and she is 8!'

LongTailedTit Mon 05-Aug-13 11:03:54

Ha - some of this rings a bell. I'm on a couple of natural parenting pages but had never interpreted it as sneery, I just ignore the bits that don't suit me as I do find them to be far more lentil weavery than me.

I'm going to my first SlingMeet this week as it happens, but purely because I don't know many people with slings and want to try a few wrap ones out before having DC2, try before you buy etc!
Tempted to buy DS a Fruit Shoot and watch the Mexican wave of hmm come my way...

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 11:08:45

MadMum all the cool babies hang off the bloggers tit? grin

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 11:11:02

<I'm imagining babies in leather jackets,sunglasses,with fags in their hands passing around the bloggers boob cause they are so cool>

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 11:13:12

arf all the cool babies

natwebb79 Mon 05-Aug-13 11:23:44

Oh blimey I hear you! I try to avoid these pages but couldn't help but comment when somebody on some page called something Armadillo(?) said that feeding your baby an Ella's Kitchen pouch without even using a spoon when out and about was a disgusting example of child abuse. Of course she only ever fed her baby home cooked organic lentil stew blessed with fairy farts or something. I think I wound her up by asking what was wrong with Munch Bunch yogurts grin

maja00 Mon 05-Aug-13 11:24:02

I love this grin A sneery thread all about how some other people are sneery.

Why not just parent however you want, and not worry so much about what other people do?

FridaKarlov Mon 05-Aug-13 12:16:38

I guess I subscribe to some attachment parenting principles (breastfeeding, co-sleeping, using slings) but that's because I'll do anything for an easy life rather than because I'm a lentil weaver. Parenting smuggery is just... Ugh.

TheSecondComing Mon 05-Aug-13 12:22:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Analytical Armadillo?

RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 12:29:27

"I must admit (going off my own experience of friends parenting 'styles') the gentler the parent the more irritating the child..."

Just: wow.

I reckon any parenting style that has a 'label' will always attract sneery nobbers. Because, by calling it anything, you automatically divide the world into 'us' and 'them', and of course 'us' are right and 'them' are everyone else and therefore wrong.

Even if something works, and is a basically decent idea, as soon as it gets a 'name', people will talk about it as if it was a philosophical belief system, instead of a 'Hey try this you might find it works ok for you' suggestion.

RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 12:30:34

I subscribe to a lot of pages/blogs such as the ones mentioned....and I have never seen outright sneers about other peoples children. Plenty on this thread though. Speaks volumes.

RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 12:32:50

...and if by reading them you are ending up in such a state then perhaps don't read them? A lot of judgement comes from within, and it might be an idea to explore why reading about gentler parenting is provoking such a reaction. Just an idea smile

thebody Mon 05-Aug-13 12:32:51

if you subscribe to any 'parenting ethos' then its obviously all about you isn't it as babies are individual and unique and don't fit a pattern.

it's a dam shame that parents are so gullible that they actually don't realise that some 'parenting expert' is selling them books and kak

Turry Mon 05-Aug-13 12:32:57

Ah, TheSecondComing, that's just so, so true! I dote on me dd - don't we all! - but not convinced sitting their like a wet lettuce while she runs towards me expressly to smack me in the face, then runs off again (as friend's daughter does to her) would be doing either of us any favours... hmm

People buy into the label, without understanding the principles, a lot of the time.

So 'gentle' becomes 'mug/martyr' which leads to spoilt brat of a child. Which I'd guess is not what people who have actually thought through this approach are aiming for?

sherbetpips Mon 05-Aug-13 12:34:33

HoleyGhost I agree I had a friend who posted daily pictures on fb and then daily whinges on how hard her life was with a baby 'attached' to her. She was evangelical about it all though, whilst suffering from horrible PND. Anyone who tried to suggest to her that maybe she shouldn't be so hard on herself and give herself some space from the baby was never spoken to again. I always wonder what the dad's think, watching there perfectly normal wife suddenly changing every aspect of their lives so a baby can be permanently strapped to them.

thebody Mon 05-Aug-13 12:34:38

bugger!! making a shed load if cash out of their inability to think for themselves.

live the terms attached and gentle by the way!! hilarious.

nothing new here either. parents have been strict/ sloppy/daft and spoilt children for generations.

OctopusPete8 Mon 05-Aug-13 12:34:56

I think you could say the same about 'tough muvver's' aswell though tbh,

If your child's a bit boisterous,cheeky late developing etc..you're obviously the laziest parent to have ever lived and its all your fault they will never suffer such difficulties because their way is perfect!!!! so swings and roundabouts...

Turry Mon 05-Aug-13 12:35:17

*me dd, should read 'my' obvo! Not illiterate, honest!

HaroldLloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 12:35:52

The scraps on the BLW Facebook groups are mental.

Pages and pages of arguing about spoons.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 12:37:07

I just followed the 'my way' parenting approach. This involved doing what the hell I thought was right in any given situation and getting on with it without needing to refer to a book.

I should write a book. hmm grin

natwebb79 Mon 05-Aug-13 12:38:07

That's the one,Commander! grin

TeWiSavesTheDay Mon 05-Aug-13 12:53:57

It's weird because I have found some gentle parenting type books useful - like that no cry sleep solution one. Part of why I like them as that they are not actually that extreme. The sleep one makes a point of saying that all children are different, nothing works on every child, sometimes there is nothing you can do that means they won't cry, and that letting them cry can be the right choice.

Yet other people seem to read the exact same books and completely skip over those passages and decide any crying is vile child abuse and you should be ashaaaamed. hmm

I gave up on looking for gentle parenting advice when I was looking for advice about crazy climbing babies/young toddlers. Aka too young to be told off, but big enough to do ridiculous things and seriously hurt themselves. The advice was to put a pile of cushions on the floor so they could 'experience' climbing in a safe environment. hmmhmm

I couldn't stop laughing all day.

TheSecondComing Mon 05-Aug-13 12:56:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:00:21

Blimey! Are there really people who deny their kids pain relief? shock

tedmundo Mon 05-Aug-13 13:06:58

Dsil does gentle parenting and the amount of words she uses makes my brain melt. I see her kids tuning out too. It is all just too, too wordy.

Example .. We were heading out to the park. dnephew dicking about and not putting on his coat.

Dsis .. "Now darling, what is the weather outside? Yes it is cold. So so cold. Brrr. So when it is cold we need to put our coats on don't we? Otherwise we will get cold bodies. And that might make us ill, and have to stay in bed. Oh dear, we don't want that do we? So shall we be putting the coat on? There it is, over there on the chair.... "

Me .. "nephew ... Coat!" Accompanied by direct eye contact and stern face.

We then went to the park. I had a headache.

HaroldLloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 13:08:47

I know of people who don't want to give calpol to maintain the virgin gut.

Yes yes.

quesadilla Mon 05-Aug-13 13:09:08

God, it sounds insufferable.
Barfing at the idea of a "slingmeet."
That's the kind of thing I would think far fetched if it featured in the plot of a sitcom about the organic classes.

What actually happens at a slingmeet? Once you have got over the rapture of meeting other smug middle class twats natural parents?

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:09:24

*The scraps on the BLW Facebook groups are mental.

Pages and pages of arguing about spoons.*

But spoons are evil don't you know. They're one step down the slippery slope from hatting your newborns (anyone who reads Sanctimommy should understand the perils of hatting).

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 13:12:03

Does anyone remember the scandel a couple of years ago when a well know 'gentle parenting' author who claimed to be a child psycologist had actually 'bought'' her title over the internet? A complete fabrication basically. She wrote a book hideously titled 'raising our children, raising ourselves'

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:13:59

I don't remember that but tbh anyone who holds themselves up as some sort of 'parenting guru' is a right twat anyway. And anyone who makes claims about being a doctor when they aren't is also a twat.

I got a lot of this on my Facebook feed from a school friend who is a nanny. I had to hide her posts in the end, they were doing my head in. I could attachment parent my arse off if I was only doing it in working hours and got to go home to a different house where I was guaranteed a child-free right hours of sleep and every weekend to myself... <and breathe>

*eight hours that should be blush

HaroldLloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 13:21:52

Never heard of hatting! Seriously!

Poor DS got a right hatting.

RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 13:25:38

"God, it sounds insufferable.
Barfing at the idea of a "slingmeet."
That's the kind of thing I would think far fetched if it featured in the plot of a sitcom about the organic classes.

What actually happens at a slingmeet? Once you have got over the rapture of meeting other smug middle class twats natural parents?"

Often sling meets are a useful place for Mums to come along and try a few slings out, perhaps even borrow one for a while to see how she gets on. She can talk to other Mums and get advice on how to use a sling, and the various ways of 'wearing' them. Invaluable for Mums that don't have a spare £50 lying around to just pick a sling up for John Lewis. So hardly a smug middle class twunt.

Finding some of the posters on this thread insufferable TBH.

gymboywalton Mon 05-Aug-13 13:26:03

the thing about all this is that when your kids get older, you realise that none of this shit actaully matters at all.

you should just do what you need to do to get you all through the day happy and healthy.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 13:28:32

"RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 12:32:50
...and if by reading them you are ending up in such a state then perhaps don't read them? A lot of judgement comes from within, and it might be an idea to explore why reading about gentler parenting is provoking such a reaction. Just an idea"

Because it's shite. Judgemental martyred ill advised shite. smile

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 13:30:05

"RedbreastRobin Mon 05-Aug-13 12:30:34
I subscribe to a lot of pages/blogs such as the ones mentioned....and I have never seen outright sneers about other peoples children. Plenty on this thread though. Speaks volumes."

Speak your volumes. Enlighten, educate. And drop your passive aggressive nonsense too please.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:30:57

It's all in the name. If people are having a meet up and discussing slings and whatever then great. Lovely bit of support for each other.

It's the fact that it has to have a name - 'sling meet', that makes it sound wanky.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 13:36:51

You're right. And often there can then be a second/third agenda item covertly added. Our local sling meet suddenly became a place to discuss cloth nappies and co sleeping. Not innocuous in themselves of course, but what started out as something simple then takes on a political agenda.

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:42:18

Aaaah so if we call it tedious judgemental wank it's simply because we're not enlightened enough or learned enough to understand the tedious judgemental wank?

Nope - it's just tedious judgemental wank... with a side order of knickerwetting when there's a new Oscha sling release that was last seen when New Kids on the Block were number 1.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:44:39

It excludes people and becomes cliquey.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 13:52:51

I've just googled "hatting". How can anyone get wound up over a baby's hat???

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 13:54:47

Warning: this link contains the phrase "Research has demonstrated..."

stop hatting chatting and patting

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:55:32

I have no idea what it is.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 13:57:40

It's the thorny issue of whether to put a hat on a baby. There. I knew you'd be shocked.

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 13:57:55

birthanarchy.com/hat-hat-strange-conundrum hatting for beginners.

Feel free to add it to the list of things your parents did wrong that you're going to be in therapy for for the next 20 years over.

anklebitersmum Mon 05-Aug-13 14:00:29

Well I am still [goldfish faced] at these pages..had to seek a few out and have a read.

Then I refreshed and had to investigate 'hatting' too.

confused where do these people get their ideas from..and who on earth funds this drivel research?

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:01:15

What a load of old wank. hmm

bigkidsdidit Mon 05-Aug-13 14:01:26

That link Is the most wonderful thing I've ever read grin

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:02:43

God knows what I've done to my two by using hats... with ears!

I'm going to scar DD2 for life by crocheting her an owl hat for winter.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:04:25

Best get the therapist booked then.

Dd had a pink sleepsuit with a hood and bunny ears when she was about 4 months.

She hates that photo. Mwahahaha grin

quesadilla Mon 05-Aug-13 14:05:23

YouTheCat this.

No problem whatsoever with people sharing/exchanging slings but its the underlying identification of people as "sling people" that makes it so nauseating.

What's wrong with just using Freecycle/Facebook/the local paper to share the bloody things. Also note it has to be slings. It couldn't be something as dull and non-demographically pigeonholable as "buggy sharing meets"...

bigkidsdidit Mon 05-Aug-13 14:06:44

I really hate the idea that women have to utterly sacrifice themselves for their children - 24 hour breast feeding, co sleeping, sling wearing ECG means women essentially have no time for themselves whatsoever for years and years. I think it is quite mysogynisitc. In the 50s women weren't expected to do this. But we get some power and go back to work and suddenly, enormous surprise! A good mother is one who devotes herself utterly to her child. No time todo anything else then, is there.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:07:48

That's it.

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:08:04

Oh god... a pushchair porn meet.

That would be fucking awesome - could go and fiddle and play with everyone else's buggies and judge the shit outta them!

PeazlyPops Mon 05-Aug-13 14:08:32

YANBU.

I have a friend that is very into attachment parenting, it is so tiring. All she ever talks about is breastfeeding, slings, co-sleeping, blw etc.

I just don't understand the need to label what you do as a parent. I do what keeps us happy. I started off blw, but started spoon feeding when DS loaded a spoon, passed it to me and opened his mouth saying aaaah!

We tried slings, but DS got fidgety and was calmer in his pushchair. Etc etc.

It pisses me off that some parenting styles involve lording it over other parents.

PeazlyPops Mon 05-Aug-13 14:12:00

Oh and the term babywearing is ridiculous. I saw something that said something on the lines of "breastfeeding, cloth bumming babywearing mama." Urgh!

anklebitersmum Mon 05-Aug-13 14:16:25

I'd have had to sterilise the pushchair and the biters to attend a pushchair porn meet..there'd have been a possibility of non-organic crumbs and dilute squash blush

ouryve Mon 05-Aug-13 14:18:16

I'll go in for gentle parenting when the boys take on board the idea of gentle childrening.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:18:31

I had a second hand tandem buggy, with no brakes. It was so scruffy.

I'm amazed my children have survived to adulthood tbh. grin

quesadilla Mon 05-Aug-13 14:22:01

The hatting thing has to be a wind-up. Someone tell me it's a wind-up....

Why do I never meet people like this? My life must be so sheltered.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 14:22:12

Am thinking of starting a "bugaboo meet". Who's in? wink

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 14:22:53

I think people are incredibly naive if they think that these meet ups are not meant to exclude people. Perhaps there is a defining feature of these 'meet ups' because they are basically saying 'come along if you identify with this, piss off if you don't!'

I have never been on these FB groups but it's a democratic country - if people enjoy this stuff I don't really see what harm they are doing.

CrackleMauve Mon 05-Aug-13 14:29:03

I would have loved a pushchair meet when I was pregnant, how awesome would it have been to properly push some round and see what they are like?

RandallPinkFloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 14:31:45

My DS wasn't hatted when he was born, they either forgot or were too busy resuscitating him and trying to piece me back together.

I hatted him the next morning though. He had a cone head from the kiwi ventouse thingy. It had a ring around it with all crusty blood and mank stuck in it.

It was August and really quite warm. He was basically naked except for a hat for about a week and a half. Should I flog myself now or can I wait til later?

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:32:47

Someone will be along shortly to flog you, for a small fee. grin

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 14:33:23

All mine were hatted, nappies and babygro'd. I've ruined them. Sometimes they were even shawled.

hazelnutlatte Mon 05-Aug-13 14:33:36

Slingmeet - was sold to me as somewhere to go and try on lots of slings so you can decide which one to buy. Sounded like a great idea to me, no shops nearby selling slings, so I went along.
Turned up to find I was the only person there who didn't already have a multitude of slings, everyone else was there to congratulate themselves on being 'babywearers.' I received no advice except some looks of disapproval as I formula fed my dd and then changed her disposable nappy - I went home and bought a baby bjorn in the end!

NoComet Mon 05-Aug-13 14:34:54

Oh dear, Not guilty of "hating" I never put a hat on indoors and only about twice out doors before I lost it.

But patting and chatting. Well DD was born at home with two midwives present and her sister. Then they swaped shift and two other midwives came and tidied up. Then DF, her DH and her two DDs turned up and played for a bit, before taking DD1 off for tea.

Thus DD2 had had 11 different people chatting, patting and spreading their germs before she was 9 hours old.

Perhaps that's why she's far more sociable and far better with people than DD2 wink

It's a load of tosh. I co slept and 24 hr BF DD2 because that's what worked for her. DD1 was formulae fed and put in the crib because she hated BFing and squirmed if you tried to co sleep.

Neither of them would tolerate slings or being swaddled.

DD1 lived on wicked reins, because she vanished, DD2 was much more sensible.

Both have been slapped and shouted at and sent to their rooms. Both have been loved and cuddled and loved to pieces too. (The naughty step in an open plan house doesn't really work, they just carry on watching you and their sister and don't care).

At 12&15 they are as different as chalk and cheese and utterly delightful.

I call it the muddling along school of parenting

NoComet Mon 05-Aug-13 14:39:42

Oh and by 4 they would both been quite happy if I'd let them play on their own in the baby pool. By 5 DD2 would do adult water shoots into pools out of her depth, but both had swam a lot from being tiny.

MrsDeVere Mon 05-Aug-13 14:45:50

I felt my ears burning so I had to come and comment grin

I had several 'gentle' & 'natural' FB pages 'liked' because I think I always have something to learn. I have had five DCs and pretty much know what I am doing but I am open to new ideas etc etc.

But they were so depressing. They were worse than the very worst AIBU on MN.

They were so NOT gentle to anyone who did not meet their stringent rules and regulations about what was right.

No qualms about flaming anyone who got in their way, it was brutal.

I also dislike the use of 'natural' because it infers/implies that everything else is unnatural.

And that is pretty arrogant in my book.

Each to their own. I have nothing to say about sling meets, extended bf, co sleeping or whatever. I have done most things to a certain extent in the 21 years I have been a parent.

But there is nothing much worse than a bunch of spiteful, vicious people hiding behind a wall of 'gentle mumma' whilst they virtually beat the crap out of someone who has admitted to yelling at their 4 year old.

RandallPinkFloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 14:47:50

Sounds like a good school Star.!

So far I seem to have been favouring a 'by the seat of your pants' approach. I can't boast a 100% success rate but still, I've been on my own since he was 4mo so it was very much a sink or swim situation. He's 2 this week and we've muddled through so far. Although admittedly he does spend a lot of his time spinning round in circles with his hand down the back of his pants singing 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover at the top of his voice. I don't think anyone's going to be asking me to write a book any time soon.

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 14:52:03

If you'd yelled at your four year old why would you go on one of these FB pages, it's pretty obvious it's not going to be looked on favourably.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 14:55:45

You might go looking for a bit of support and advice.

You'd not get any by the sounds of it though. sad

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 14:56:11

Because they purport to be a supprt network.

MrsDeVere Mon 05-Aug-13 15:03:07

Because you might say 'i feel awful. My four threw a rock at my head and it hurt so I shouted at her, I feel terrible, she is fine but I feel like i have failed. Will she ever love me again?'

And then you get a hundred mummas telling you that whatever your child does you must never ever raise your voice. As a gentle mumma you should find the strength not to call out in pain if a rock hits you on the head. For you may frighten your precious child and they will grow up in conflict. There is nothing to be done, you have forever scarred their heart and they will take a long time to trust their mumma again. If they ever DO.

Why wouldn't you occasionally yell at a four year old? Bloody good job if you can manage it but I haven't. Raising your voice is not a crime against humanity and is occasionally vital.

celticclan Mon 05-Aug-13 15:08:03

Does anyone actually think they were damaged as a child by being yelled at when they did something wrong? I know I wasn't.

We have made parenting such hard work for ourselves. I think it was far simpler in days gone by and the children were generally more respectful.

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 15:09:59

Yes but what kind of connotations do 'Gentle parenting' titles have?

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 15:16:36

Yes it's pretty obvious you are not going to find that kind of reassurance from FB page committed to the cause of 'gentle parenting', if you have 'shouted' at your four year old for whatever reason.

MrsDeVere Mon 05-Aug-13 15:19:08

The point is that 'Gentle' should mean 'Gentle'.

Not an excuse for being incredibly ungentle to adults because you are confusing being ineffectual towards your children for 'gentle parenting'

Gentle Parenting to me meant parents who tried their best to bring their children up in an atmosphere of understanding and acceptance. Avoiding shouting and not using physical punishments.

To me, that is an ideal to be aimed for.

But I have yet to come across a Gentle Parenting page where this is the case.

So who has it wrong? Me or them? Have I misinterpreted what Gentle Parenting means or have they?

ComposHat Mon 05-Aug-13 15:20:50

The name 'gentle parenting' is so bloody passive aggressive, anyone who doesn't subscribe to their school of child rearing, is by implication an aggressive or rough parent.

MrsDeVere Mon 05-Aug-13 15:21:54

But is that right? Golden?

Is it ok that people who have lapsed should be castigated on a 'Gentle' page?

Does that go for people who have had a fag and gone to their stop smoking page for a bit of help?

YOu bastard, you are going to diiiiiiiieeeeee now you utter twat. You had a fag, how dare you come to this page and tell us your filth!!!!!!!!!!

No. That doesn't happen does it?

It is generally much more along the lines of 'well you know you shouldn't have, you have admitted to yourself that you slipped up. Now what are you going to do to stop it happening again?'

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 15:24:41

I always like how I am judged for using formula and a soother by gentle par enters yet I'm jealous or have feelings that I failed if I judge their lack of parenting their child when its violently attacking mine. They frequent my local toddler group,they smile dotingly at their children as they wreck havoc and run other children's fun.

cocolepew Mon 05-Aug-13 15:26:42

Right I get that hatting is , um, putting a hat on hmm. But what the chuff is chatting and patting? confused

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 15:45:51

I remember starting a thread on a well known 'natural parenting' website about gentle parenting and whether it could possibly be called natural, both because it is so unnatural for a parent to robotically inspect their every communication with a child for hints of upset or praise and also because in the natural animal word, parenting is FAR from gentle!

Unconditional parenting is my very very most hated parenting style.

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 15:51:28

Are they support groups though or more a bunch of people that hold the same 'principles'?

FixItUpChappie Mon 05-Aug-13 15:55:04

this thread makes me think of a discussion on another forum about a slingmeet in a mall where a dad tried to join in but was turned away because he had a Baby Bjorne not a real sling. The snobbishness was jaw-dropping. I also couldn't believe the number of people who chimed in to support "educating" (providing unsolicited advice) to parents they saw out and about using said unapproved carrier.

it's too bad as I think there are some good foundational principles in Sears books for example

Bwahahaha that person who has commented on the 'hatting' Facebook page - I know her! She had a lotus birth and talks about putting babies in prams making her sad and being 'unconscious parenting'

Why do these women all refer to the,selves as 'mamas'? Who actually says Mama out loud unless you are foreign? I'm not a mama, I'm a mother, mummy to my DS. And I'm not any type of mother (apart from a horrible, self doubting, shouty one at the moment) but I don't need a label to validate my choices.

Actually, if anyone has any links of nice, sensible, helpful gentle parenting sites, I'd like to see it. I do want to be less shouty and cross with DS and I know it's not making a blind bit of difference to his behaviour so if I can find a gentler way that works I would be very happy. But no 'baby wearing cloth bumming natural mama' bullshit.

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 15:58:52

TBF Friggen it is possible for a child who drinks formula and uses a dummy to attack your child. Besides, if you're talking about children who are at an age where they drink formula or do/don't use dummies then you're actually making out 'babies' to be spoilt and vicious with their attacks on your child. Babies, all babies are not completely clued up on 'boundaries'!

Coco I think that you are supposed to be as quiet as possible around your newborn, and apparently nobody should be holding him apart from 'mama' and her partner. So you can't offload baby to your mates and have a good natter and gossip around precious baby. Sounds like a recipe for pnd to me.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 16:01:03

I'm liking the sound of 'unconscious parenting'. I'd like to have slept through most of it. grin

Oh no sorry the chatting bit is about other people talking around the baby. So you are only allowed to talk to your partner hmm

SarahAndFuck Mon 05-Aug-13 16:11:14

I once made the mistake of posting for help on breastfeeding on an unmoderated Facebook page. It was the middle of the night, DS would not latch on to one breast, I was bleeding from the other, I was in agony and DS was starving.

I received hundreds of replies, only one or two were genuinely helpful and kind. The majority were reasonably kind but still fairly forceful in their insistence that we could and should "just try harder" but they gave no real advice on how.

And then a scarily large amount were outright hateful rants filled with comments about rat poison, accusations of being selfish, insults about my DH expecting me to use my breasts for sex not feeding and statements that we might as well just throw our newborn in the back of the car without a car seat and drive him the wrong way down the motorway because it was just as much a risk to his life as formula feeding.

Almost nobody actually wanted to give advice and help, they just wanted to judge, sneer and attack anybody who had a moment of doubt.

I am not saying that everybody who breastfeeds is like that, but often these pages are unmoderated or not moderated properly and they are open to abuse by some of their members and it quickly escalates.

I would never use one of those pages now.

I like CocaColaMum's philosophy actually. Do whatever it takes to get you all through the day happy, healthy and alive and with a hug at the end rather than tears. You do what you can to raise you child in the best way you can and if you have to attack someone else when they ask for advice, perhaps you ought to take a look at yourself and ask yourself why you feel the need.

OTheHugeManatee Mon 05-Aug-13 16:17:49

Agree with whoever said that this 'natural mama' business is pretty misogynistic.

Got the vote? Allowed to own property? Got a career? Well fuck all that: unless you are willing to strap your children to yourself for years and years and whip your dugs out on demand until they choose to release you you have FAILED, woman. FAILED. And what's more, you will LOVE EVERY MAGICAL MOMENT of your martyrdom because if you don't then there is something WRONG with you.

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 16:19:47

Sorry I should have been clearer. My child no longer drinks formula or has a soother as she is a toddler. I am simply relaying that the general population of my local toddler group are those who identify as natural/gentle parents. Their children are regularly attacking,not snatching or being boisterous but scratching,pulling and biting other children. The parents pass it off as their children needing wind down,tired,hungry and thus try to talk their children out of it whilst their child shrieks into another child's face. Toddlers are well able to understand boundaries and how they can hurt others. These parents are turning people off the local group (which was a lifeline for many a stressed parent/carer and was a source of support) with their judgment,superior attitude and total up themselves ness.

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 16:25:36

Ehric I had no partner so I would be stuck chatting to myself or the cat and tbf he isn't much for conversation grin .

cocolepew Mon 05-Aug-13 16:28:06

Thanks Ehric, sounds shite interesting

KatoPotato Mon 05-Aug-13 16:29:56

One of my toddler group Mums spends over 30 minutes asking her daughter to 'please let me put your shoes on'

Is the gentle parenting? I shouted 'cheerio' as I rugby carried mines out.

rowtunda Mon 05-Aug-13 16:29:58

ha - completely agree! Gentle parenting, attachment parenting, unconditional parenting - the term are just so sickening and sneery!

FrigginRexManningDay Mon 05-Aug-13 16:33:05

Half an hour to put her shoes on ?confused hmm
School run is going to be a big shock to her grin .

OTheHugeManatee Mon 05-Aug-13 16:39:09

In RL I'm a psychotherapist. I'm 100% convinced that these kinds of dotty parenting fads are going to create entirely new classes of neurosis for my profession to deal when the children raised this way become adults.

anklebitersmum Mon 05-Aug-13 16:41:07

Seen that sort in action myself FrigginRexManningDay

Child screaming, kicking, hitting and attempting to bite his Mother because she had forgotten his nursery jumper. Having quite the tantrum not that we haven't all been there at some point . Her soothing tones and "I'll buy you a new one when we're inside dahling" were at bit of a shock hmm to me though.

Oddly enough I later discovered he was the pinching, hitting and generally unpleasant umpteenth accident form but we're not allowed to name names, sorry child that DD has been moaning about after he hit her in the face with his water bottle and blacked her eye during lunch.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 16:45:08

There's one at the school I work in. Does the whole quietly explaining things to her 8 year old, while he either totally ignores her or goes into a foot-stamping tantrum because he can't have what he wants. He tried it with me and it didn't work out well, lost playtime etc.

I do think it is fine to quietly explain things to children but at length is going to be lost on a young child and sometimes kids need to learn that no means exactly that or it will set them up for a lifetime of disappointment.

MalcolmTuckersMum Mon 05-Aug-13 16:47:10

All this stuff is a huge eye-opener to me. When did it all start? Only I finished producing sprogs in the early nineties and I'm pretty sure there was none of this giving every damned thing a name and feeling a failure if you couldn't/didn't want to do it.

I blame the internet. I don't think any of it has got anything at all to do with the wellbeing of the baby and everything to do with a certain section of women relishing in their new found ability to make other women feel bad. And if that's the case it's a fucking disgrace and the more we work to debunk this shit the better. So to the one protagonist on this thread - you may take your damned baseless superiority and shove it, well oiled with full fat sausage grease and smeared in E numbers and sugar just about as far up your fundament as you can see without having a nervous breakdown and needing a meet to get over it.

That is all.

KatoPotato Mon 05-Aug-13 16:47:17

tbf it wasn't 30 uninterrupted minutes, she'd plead, dangle the shoes then let her tear off and demand toys off other toddlers then try again. 'Please Anaglypta, we need to go, Granny will be sat outside the house'

This same Mamma told me that at home her DD slept in her double bed and she folded herself into her Peppa Pig toddler bed. not quite co-sleeping as 'evicted parent sleeping'

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 16:49:47

Pmsl @ little Anaglypta grin

OTheHugeManatee Mon 05-Aug-13 16:50:40

This same Mamma told me that at home her DD slept in her double bed and she folded herself into her Peppa Pig toddler bed. not quite co-sleeping as 'evicted parent sleeping'

shock

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 16:52:56

oh good god at the HAT article

KatoPotato Mon 05-Aug-13 16:54:21

I shouldn't snigger but DH whistles the Peppa Pig theme tune when we see her in the distance.

She really was insufferable when they were all babies, I was always the rogue member of the group as we only found out I was pregnant at 23weeks so the 'flying by the seeat of your pants' school indeed!

Secretswitch Mon 05-Aug-13 16:54:31

I tried a website full of gentle parents. I asked for assistance with getting my baby to sleep more than hour at a time. I was breast feeding and exhausted beyond belief. The answer I received back was " Who said you have the right to sleep? Your infant's need come first!"

HoleyGhost Mon 05-Aug-13 16:54:56

" Got the vote? Allowed to own property? Got a career? Well fuck all that: unless you are willing to strap your children to yourself for years and years and whip your dugs out on demand until they choose to release you you have FAILED, woman. FAILED. And what's more, you will LOVE EVERY MAGICAL MOMENT of your martyrdom because if you don't then there is something WRONG with you."

This.

I have seen friends run themselves into the ground due to these parenting choices. They break down in the end and take antidepressants to survive.

Women who had so much energy and drive becoming shadows of their former selves due to years and years of sleep deprivation and self sacrifice.

It could easily have been me if not for some sensible friends.

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 16:55:20

Sometimes they were even shawled.

dear god not a shawl grin

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 16:55:27

shock

SpanielFace Mon 05-Aug-13 16:56:33

Love this thread. I totally relate to so much of this. I went to a few sling meets when DS was newborn - I wanted to try a few slings before I bought one. Turned up to the first with DS in a pram (I didn't have a sling - clearly that's why I was there!) and was made to feel terrible as I wasn't "wearing" him. I only wanted one so I could walk the dog more easily! DS is now 11 months, and so far I am subscribing to the "muddle through each day as best as you can" school of parenting. I'm assuming this will continue for some time!

Love sanctimommy, whoever mentioned that up thread!

KatoPotato Mon 05-Aug-13 16:57:05

She never hatted, but I'm convinced she used to put gel on her hair as a baby too...

DuelingFanjo Mon 05-Aug-13 17:00:23

The thing about the swimming is ridiculous. I quite dislike the expression 'mamma' too. I AM a member of some 'gentle' groups but find the thing that seems to divide people on them is the SAH/WOH debate. That's when I find them a bit sneery.

I've had to leave a group that claimed to be 'zen' because of all the negative stuff that was being posted. Often it's 'my way or the highway' on those pages anyway.

TeWiSavesTheDay Mon 05-Aug-13 17:00:24

It pews me off because I think women with/who had one are really vulnerable to this kind of 'i must parent by the rules' quicheyness, because they haven't much faith in their own instincts at that point.

So you basically have people who need lots of reassurance being chucked into a completely supportive environment.

There is nothing gentle about that.

TeWiSavesTheDay Mon 05-Aug-13 17:02:09

Bloody phone!

People who need reassurance in a completely UNsupportive environment.

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 17:02:27

Mums spends over 30 minutes asking her daughter to 'please let me put your shoes on'

My cousin did this when her dds were younger it drove me insane, please sweetheart lets put your jacket shoes clothes on mummy loves you very much. now they tell her to fuck off when she asks them anything shock

bruffin Mon 05-Aug-13 17:02:44

Who actually says Mama out loud unless you are foreign

My Ds called me Mama until he was about 5, no idea where is came from, but was very sad when it stopped. He is 17 now and does a wonderful impression of Stewie Griffiths "mum,mum,mum"
I'm far from being a "gentle parent" much more a "benign neglect" one.

mignonette Mon 05-Aug-13 17:10:38

Watch the film 'Away We Go' for how to deal with a batty Gentle Mamma. Hysterical.

RE Hatting- by the logic of their argument, all children born in very cold or harsh climates have poor attachment and an estrangement from their Mothers. Try being Inuit and leaving your newborns head uncovered.

I'm a 'Good Enough' parent. My children are all grown. They are happy, decent and productive. They know how to love. That is all I wanted. The rest is icing on a perfectly good enough cake.

ohforblardysake Mon 05-Aug-13 17:12:17

Agreed. I use cloth nappies, BF my 20 month old, co sleep. But some of these pages bug the living fuck out of me.

I unliked one recently with a mother asking for advice, saying the doctor was bullying her into vaccinating her child. Lots of twats answering saying go with your instincts mama, don't let them bully you,bla bla. I posted about the measles outbreak in Wales then unliked the page.

More recently more shite about natural birth and giving baby the best start in life without a 'drugged' birth. So offensive.

ohforblardysake Mon 05-Aug-13 17:17:02

I like this blog as an example of how 'gentle parenting' does not need to mean smug, narrow minded and judgey

http://rachelmariemartin.blogspot.co.uk/

ohforblardysake Mon 05-Aug-13 17:17:15
PastaBeeandCheese Mon 05-Aug-13 17:17:57

Totally agree. The local breastfeeding counsellor is into this nonsense and only the other day was having a pop at some poor woman on Facebook who said how pleased she was an expressed bottle at 10pm was making her 6 month old sleep through.

Apparently it's not right for a mother to aspire to have a child who sleeps through as it's natural for them to wake until they decide otherwise.

Yeah, right-o. I took great pleasure in heartedly congratulating the mum with the sleeping child.

spotscotch Mon 05-Aug-13 17:18:56

I really think these 'mamas' (bleugh!) must be seriously insecure/have something missing in their lives to invest so much time in Facebook pages/blogs on something that humans have been doing mostly successfully for thousands of years. Who has the time for this crap?

I agree that terms like 'gentle' parenting are quite offensive because as someone said up thread, if you don't subscribe to their bullshit way of parenting (and crow about it on Facebook) you are an 'aggressive' parent.

What. A. Crock. Of. Shiiiiit!

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 05-Aug-13 17:22:11

I'm on a couple. Ignore most of them unless I'm in the mood. One is a private one that myself and a few local friends created and it is supportive and nonjudgemental but still along the lines of "gentle" parenting, if you like.

I think in the early days of parenting you can get caught up in it in a really misleading way. It did feel very "us and them" to me when DS was tiny and it's only since DS has got older and from mumsnet really that I've realised most people do basically the same things and there's no need to be so defensive about the whole thing and it's really not that outlandish. It probably doesn't help that 90% of the english speaking people on the web are from America where it is much more polarised in the first place. I read something online the other day where a parent had taken her son to the supermarket wearing a pink headband and a man came over, slapped it off his head and ranted for about five minutes about how he'd done her son a favour because now he wouldn't grow up to be gay. Now, whether you agree with letting boys wear "girls" clothes or not, that would just never ever happen in Britain.

I have loads of "mamma type" friends in real life and none of them would ever dream of making someone feel bad for their choices. We had a sling meet for a while and loads of people came with baby bjorns or having never used a sling in their life and were welcomed really enthusiastically, and usually went away borrowing a sling off someone they hadn't met half an hour before. I have never come across anybody sneery about it in real life, but then neither have I come across anybody who was sneery about having their baby on a strict routine or anything else that's supposed to be the opposite. If I did though I would think it was their issue, and not something to do with the way they were parenting. Anybody can take anything to an extreme and it can be weird.

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 17:23:39

Not as bad as calling yourself an 'unconditional' parent because you don't praise your children. That's just saying that everyone else doesn't love their child unconditionally. What a horrible 'trend'

Emilythornesbff Mon 05-Aug-13 17:31:35

What have I missed?
Are we not praising now?
Not even for doing a big poo on anywhere near the potty?

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 05-Aug-13 17:34:15

OFBS, I am sorry to nitpick, but that is a terrible example of a non-smug Mummy Blog grin

RobotHamster Mon 05-Aug-13 17:34:46

I love this thread

PoppyAmex Mon 05-Aug-13 17:35:04

Crap.

I am foreign and "mama" (pronounced "maman") sounds so right to me. Are people going to assume I'm part of some weird tribal club? confused

HaroldLloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 17:35:36

I find with the groups most people are ok and there are a rouge 10% who wade in with these awful comments.

The BLW one I was in for a day then I had to leave. It was carnage, I only wanted to see a few recipes.

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 17:35:58

Yep if you are an 'unconditional parent' you neither praise nor punish your child, incase they do things to please you.

So instead of saying 'that's a great picture well done' you have to say 'how do you feel about painting your picture, what part of it did you enjoy' and never offer praise.

Emilythornesbff Mon 05-Aug-13 17:39:15

Blimey.

I do like a sling though, and a bit of blw. grin

chesterberry Mon 05-Aug-13 17:44:42

I know a woman who fully subscribes to 'gentle parenting' - she very much talks about herself as a baby wearing cloth bumming breastfeeding 'mama' who has never raised her voice at her son or needed to give him a consequence.

I recently attended the birthday party of a friend's daughter to which she, and her 5yo son, were invited. Her son was playing with a group of children and there was some sort of argument about a toy - the 5yo snatched the toy from a 3yo and then proceeded to not only hit her with it but then turned around and purposefully hit my friend's 9mo baby in the face.

We all just watched on in horror as, instead of telling off her son and dishing out a suitable consequence, this 'mama' pulled him onto her lap for a cuddle - she just tried to calmly explain to him that what he had done was wrong as he repeatedly kicked, punched and scratched her. No consequence and within 5 minutes he was back playing whilst mother tried to make excuses for her son's 'feelings of frustration' and 'need to take control.'

I agree with lots of the principles of 'gentle parenting' and will probably follow many of them when my own child arrives but to follow it to the extreme where you can't ever raise your voice, dish out a consequence or ever take control of your child for fear of 'upsetting their psyche' just seems ridiculous and I dread to think what some of these children will be like as adults.

lovesmellingthecoffee Mon 05-Aug-13 17:51:14

I'm with MALCOLMTUCKERSMUM I'm so glad my dc were born in the 90's and i didn't have all these different parenting styles to choose from.
and unconditional parenting wtf whats wrong with pleasing people. I thought that unconditional parenting was about loving each other not about not praising children.

lovesmellingthecoffee Mon 05-Aug-13 17:56:17

And whats wrong with showing kids that your upset, they need to learn to be considerate and that there are rules. I think you should just do your best and parent in the best way you can.

Fourwillies Mon 05-Aug-13 17:57:02

"So instead of saying 'that's a great picture well done' you have to say 'how do you feel about painting your picture, what part of it did you enjoy' and never offer praise."

"You've done a poo in the toilet instead of in the bushes AGAIN how do you feel about that?"

"Mummy I like to do poos in the bushes."

hmm

If I followed this he'd be shitting in the bushes into his forties, surely? grin

SarahAndFuck Mon 05-Aug-13 17:58:30

Thinking about DS, and that comment filee777 made about staying with them until they go to sleep even if they are violent and screaming with rage.

After the first few weeks of his life, DS settled himself without crying.

We knew when he was tired, sometimes he would cry to let us know but not always, and we would put him into his cot. If he was crying he would immediately stop, we would leave the room and he would just go to sleep.

He slept in our room so if he woke for a night feed and we were in bed I would put him back into his cot afterwards and as soon as the light was out he would settle himself again as if he were alone.

HV was amazed when I told her.

One of the first words he learned to say was 'bed' and once he learned that he didn't cry at all unless he was desperately over-tired or not being left alone to go to sleep.

When SIL came to babysit one night, when DS was almost two, I told her to read to him downstairs, then take him up and put him to bed and leave him alone to go to sleep.

She thought I must have got that wrong, so she stayed with him. He wouldn't sleep with her there so she tried reading to him, singing to him, getting him out of bed to cuddle and rock him, laid with him on our bed to read more stories, brought him downstairs to watch TV in case he would fall asleep on the sofa, even made him lots of warm milk to drink.

Nothing worked. By the time we came home he was sobbing and shouting "want my bed, want my bed" and SIL was almost as stressed and saying "I tried but he just wouldn't sleep." I took him to bed, gave him a cuddle and turned out the light and he was asleep almost immediately. SIL said she just hadn't believed it as in her experience children just don't do that.

I know we are lucky. We know several people with children the same age (between 4-5 years old now) whose children still don't sleep unless one of their parents stays with them for hours.

But if one of these ideas is that you must stay with every child until they go to sleep, DS is an exception to that rule and forcing that on him would have caused him no end of distress and upset.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 17:59:19

When I was pregnant in the 90s, my sil handed me a copy of a Miriam Stoppard book and told me it had been 'her Bible' hmm .

I gave it a cursory look and then did my own thing. grin

mignonette Mon 05-Aug-13 18:01:48

No Fourwillies they'll be shitting in their prison cells grin

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 18:04:59

@sarah, I totally agree, but I was talking about toddlers not being left for a second of the day, I stayed with one woman who took three hours every night putting her child to sleep, she would scream and cry and hit her but she would stay in the room until the child fell into an exhausted sleep and was invariably tired the next day too.

It just didn't seem very 'gentle' to me.

OTheHugeManatee Mon 05-Aug-13 18:08:29

What's so extra gentle about sitting next to a child that's ragingly pissed off with you for hours? Genuinely don't understand why this might be seen as preferable to leaving them alone to calm down.

SarahAndFuck Mon 05-Aug-13 18:10:25

No it doesn't. It sounds stressful for all concerned. confused

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 18:13:58

Malcolm, I'm not sure if you're referring to me as the one 'protaganist' (?) but you need to calm down. A bit of tolerance for what others do would make for a happier world I think. As I've said up thread it is not my kind of thing, I have not visited one of these pages once. I mixed fed my DC1 from 4 months, he did not like slings so that was a non starter, I was induced after being 11 days overdue and didn't object. I had drugs. With DD I did breastfeed her until 21 months but she was induced and I made a point of asking for an epidural. I know I wouldn't be well received on some of these pages but a) I wouldn't bother with them b)I'm a grown up and can 'take it' c) I'm not a Despot!

My DS has a friend whose Mum practices 'Gentle parenting' and every time she collects him it takes about 20 minutes to get his shoes on to leave. His Mum provides a running commentary that is an eloborate tale of dressing himself in his Knight's armoury in order to slay the dragons that are apparently surrounding my flat. I can't say I can be bothered myself with this storytelling, seen as my DS is 6 and understands that you need shoes to wear outside so that you don't hurt your feet but hey it's not hurting me, I don't think she's vicious and nasty about other Mothers.

I have another distant friend who is starting a campaign to ban air driers in public toilets as they scare her toddler. Oh well I don't think she is doing anything wrong.

acebaby Mon 05-Aug-13 18:18:13

With DS2, I decided that I was going to do the full on attachment parenting thing, having struggled terribly with velcro-baby DS1. But he had other ideas. I put him in bed with us, and he screamed until I gave up and put him in his own cot (whereupon he went to sleep instantly). I was determined to breastfeed him exclusively for six months, until I caught him grabbing and eating DS1's pancakes when he was four months. I was going to 'wear' him, until he grew so big by three months that my knees gave out.

He is five now, and when I popped into his room to help him settle down and get to sleep during the heat wave, he politely asked me to 'stop bothering' him.

I suppose some methods of parenting just don't suit all children/babies. Either that, or we should introduce pre-natal subscription to selected facebook groups grin

RandallPinkFloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 18:18:58

I have another distant friend who is starting a campaign to ban air driers in public toilets as they scare her toddler.

<wheeeeze> that's priceless, God love her!

(I think Malcolm was referring to RedBreastRobin)

ringaringarosy Mon 05-Aug-13 18:19:34

they are,and most of the time im probably not a gentle parent,im a bit of a shouty one espescially at the moment,BUT its something to aspire to i guess!

PresidentServalan Mon 05-Aug-13 18:21:39

Do the same people who refer to "mammas" also call babies "bubs"? That always makes me want to vomit! grin

OTheHugeManatee Mon 05-Aug-13 18:25:42

I think it's huns who call their babies 'bubs'. AFAIK huns and Natural Mammas are usually different species.

Emilythornesbff Mon 05-Aug-13 18:29:47

I hate hand driers.
Get rid of all of them I say!

MiaowTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 18:33:49

SarahAndFuck a) I now can't hear that theme "tune" without mentally altering the words and b) DD1 was exactly the same right from the start -and my MIL STILL doesn't bloody believe me (we've graduated now to needing 5 minutes to boogie around our cot and throw all the toys out of it - I even leave a shelf-full in reach for her to do this with - and then asleep, arse in air, within 10 minutes).

I love it on other forums when they have these mini-mission statements as their signatures (along with the "2 nanoseconds since I blew my nose" tickers)... BLWing, Breastfeeding, Co-Sleeping, Gentle Parenting Momma who's spent 9 grand on slings in the last month type shite. My "Doing whatever the eff works on any given day" one got censored.

BornToFolk Mon 05-Aug-13 18:35:54

Oh, unconscious parenting! I'm friends with a full-on AP, cloth bumming, etc etc Mama on Facebook and she posted something one day about the best thing about AP was that you had actually thought about how to parent and not just followed the herd...hmm.

It was completely inconceivable to her that other parents might actually have made different decisions, for completely valid reasons. Anyone that made conventional choices had just never thought about it properly. I ended up having a massive row with her husband on FB after he referred to cots as "cages"

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 18:50:02

I think hand driers should be banned but that's because I have seen the filters in them. Caked in masses of shit particles

Basically you are washing your own hands, of your own shit and then blowing other people's shit all over them.

Foul things

OTheHugeManatee Mon 05-Aug-13 19:01:25

Filee77, I think you win some kind of prize for managing to get poo spores (or even crumbs shock ) into an entirely unrelated thread grin

timeforanothernewname Mon 05-Aug-13 19:03:30

Please explain to me about the shit particles. Why are they not gone down the plughole from when hands are rinsed? <ignorant>

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 19:05:09

I suppose if you get enough poo spores it will in fact become a crumb... poo crumbs made up of different peoples poo is almost too much for me to bear.

filee777 Mon 05-Aug-13 19:14:45

Because when you flush the loo, shit and piss particles are sprayed into the air and are sucked into the air fiter of the drier, trust me, I've seen it.

Whothefuckfarted Mon 05-Aug-13 19:15:54

YABU.

All "Parenting" FB pages are full of sneery nobbers.

MrsMook Mon 05-Aug-13 19:20:09

I do what I can to survive the day. Some of that includes BFing (DS1 was 13m when I wanted my body back), using slings/carriers/wraps (because they help me live without a double buggy and make it easier to get around a supermarket with toddler and baby). I also use reusable nappies and wipes (it's great not running out, and they do look cool), BLW is much less effort than preparing home purees.

I don't subscribe to it as a package of parenting philosophy though. I leave my DSs alone to go to sleep as they are better without the stimation. DS1 does get told off sternly and face appropriate consequences to mis-behaviour. Both DSs were given formula within 48hrs of birth as with one I didn't have enough milk straight away, and the other I was knackered and in pain and couldn't face sitting up for a feed at 2am so a carton of ready made came out. The Calpol will come out if I suspect that uncharacteristic grouchiness may be triggered by something like teething pain. At weaning time, my changing bag will feature a packet of Ella's Kitchen as back-up supplies.

I don't care (in the nicest way) what other people's choices are as long as they work for them, and they raise children that roughly conform within society. I don't think martrydom is healthy for mother or baby, nor other members of the family. I'm never a purist over anything, and fundamentalism over anything be it political, religious or parenting philosophy is rarely healthy.

HaroldLloyd Mon 05-Aug-13 19:28:52

Jesus no.... Shit particles! shock

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 19:30:53

I'm with MALCOLMTUCKERSMUM I'm so glad my dc were born in the 90's and i didn't have all these different parenting styles to choose from.
and unconditional parenting wtf whats wrong with pleasing people. I thought that unconditional parenting was about loving each other not about not praising children

I did it in the 90s too hats and everything grin

IncrediblePhatTheInnkeepersCat Mon 05-Aug-13 19:41:43

Oh Lordy, the anti-hatters would have crucified me!

I took a hat my mum had knitted for DS in my hospital bag, but it turned out to be too big. The midwives were insistent that DS be hatted and they found me a hat for premature babies to put on DS while in hospital. This was far too small for DS so he was double-hatted shock. Tiny hat underneath and massive hat on top.

I went to our local sling-meet to try out slings and the people were all lovely. The majority turned up with prams and the ladies running it talked us through the different slings that were available, the pros/cons of each and how to wear them. They then helped us try them on. No preachiness, judging or pressurising.

I agree that there are some awfully smug online people, but the RL people at the slingmeet were lovely.

MavisG Mon 05-Aug-13 20:31:10

God, hearing about the sneeriness people have experienced makes me want to distance myself from being an attachment or gentle/unconditional parent (the names are problematic) - I do all that stuff mentioned (plus elimination communication, which if you're being ridiculous, is one step 'better' than cloth nappies). My 4yo still bfs occasionally. I love Alfie Kohn (wrote Unconditional Parenting).
I don't judge other mothers. It's not a freaking competition. Don't be thinking someone (me) is a sneery wanker just because they're happy to 'get their dugs out on demand' (that made me laugh) & use slings. I'm not. My friends who do similar aren't, either (and not all my friends do do similar, of course..)

MalkieFraser Mon 05-Aug-13 20:34:01

This thread is actually pretty hurtful. I co-sleep, extended breast feed, sling, I'm anti crying it out or controlled crying or whatever it is called.
I guess the name Gentle Parenting is a kind of umbrella name for all of the above.
I'm not a martyr, or a slave to my kids. I just do things gently I guess - I'm a gentle person, hate shouting, smacking, conflict. I guess I'm lucky that my kids are the same but whether that is through nature or nurture or just sheer luck who knows grin
But yeah, I find the tone of some of these posts pretty jeering and aggressive. If you have joined groups that piss you off - leave them!
I wouldn't join a motorcycle group on Facebook then moan because they banged on incessantly about motorbikes.
People join groups and expect people in them to have similar interests, so they can share them, away from people who have no interest or feel strongly against them.
Don't flame me you scary bunch. Just saying my piece.

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 20:44:03

But, Malkie, would you expect some support from these groups if you were struggling? Because from what I've heard some of them are very judgemental about anyone not doing it right.

To be fair, the OP does say 'not all' in her thread title.

I don't see anything to get hurt about. Most people have said they just get on with it, whatever that may entail and that people should do whatever fits in with them, their baby and the rest of their family.

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 20:52:12

Yes the OP did say 'some' but there are also some on this thread that have made huge sweep

Goldenbear Mon 05-Aug-13 20:59:32

Yes the OP did say 'some' but there are also some on this thread that have made huge sweeping generalisations about 'All' of these 'type' of people and the behaviour of their offspring. I have met children from very strict routines that are not very good at using their initiative or are not very good at coping with change and have meltdowns when they are up for 5 minutes after their 7pm bedtime - is it because these children are controlled ALL of the time? Don't know, it might be or is it their personality types?

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 21:06:34

I don't remember seeing anyone saying 'all' these people at all.

MalkieFraser Mon 05-Aug-13 21:10:02

Every 'group' is going to have that.
There are extremists everywhere.
I have never had a problem, I have absolutely no interest in cloth nappies. I have used Nurofen when my kids have teething pain. I choose to vaccinate them. I sometimes used Ella's pouches with no spoon - straight into their gobs. It's all about speed and convenience when it comes to feeding for mewink
Nobody was ever condescending or patronising.
The only time I felt a bit out of it was at a Sling Meet - I was the only one using SHOCK HORROR - buckles instead of a £150 wrap.
I left some of the sling groups because they were 'purists' and rabbited on about limited edition Pfau's.
I didn't come onto another group to bitch and laugh at them.

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 21:11:05

nobody said all they are just been extreme and down right batty things some of these groups or parents say, Im not very shouty and aggressive and pretty laid back but i dont spout on about things being cruel to baby or how you should be up 7 days straight because your precious baby needs you like some of the loony parents do, they cause more guilt than not IMO

YouTheCat Mon 05-Aug-13 21:14:14

Exactly, MrsJay. And they can make some new and inexperienced parents feel really crap and confused about their choices.

mrsjay Mon 05-Aug-13 21:19:30

that too you the cat I do think the internet is great for support for parents and the information and groups is out there but if a parent wander supon a group they think supports their way of thinking then they get a dozen other parents saying YOU ARE HARMING YOUR baby if you dont lie with it all night how is that supportive ? then it is usually followed by research that was done in a romanian orphanage to justify the ranting and raving at some poor parent who just needs a bloody sleep

WhoreOfTheWorlds Mon 05-Aug-13 21:26:52

The instant anyone tries to tell me about 'How they parent their child and why' I immediately switch off mentally.

Why on Earth would anyone think I was remotely interested in the (apparently) different and very special way they raise their child? I have never expected anyone to be even the slightest bit interested in how I raise my DCs.

Invariably the parents who try and bore you shitless about their parenting techniques are the very same people who were boring you shitless about recycling/fluoride in the water/the best re-chargeable batteries to buy etc, before they had children.

Dull, righteous and socially annoying people are all around us. And unfortunately, often they go on to have children.

Deliberately raising your child in a way that sets them apart from the vast majority of their peer group, and deliberately not teaching them to largely conform to the normal social expectations of others, is frankly crap parenting. You are doing your child no favours.

ringaringarosy Mon 05-Aug-13 21:44:07

Whore,i have to disagree,i dont believe we should bring up our kids to conform to anything we dont believe is right!what a strange thing to say.

SarahAndFuck Mon 05-Aug-13 21:52:10

Miaow people never believe us either. DH told someone at work and they accused him of making it up because "no kid does that." And the ones that do believe us think it's very unfair.

My mother especially likes to tell me that I was a terrible baby who didn't sleep or let go of her arm for seven years (so some of these gentle people would have loved me grin ) and she can't understand how I got such a 'good' baby of my own. I think she was counting on Karma to pay me back or something.

Sorry about the theme tune. grin

Diamond7 Mon 05-Aug-13 22:48:57

I hate labels. I doesn't help any of us. I co sleep, baby wear but hate the term attachment parent and hate the fact I am judged by a title I didn't give myself.

What we do works for me, my LO and my dh. I did plan to use a sling and co sleep but would have changed if it hadn't of worked. Thankfully it suited us well. It's not everyones cup of tea.

This is such a bitchy trend.

FunnysInLaJardin Mon 05-Aug-13 22:50:42

loads about at the mo. Calling themselves Mammas and their husbands Pappas. FFS.

Diamond7 Mon 05-Aug-13 22:56:44

I think I'm guilty of this 'The instant anyone tries to tell me about 'How they parent their child and why'' and it is only recently I have realised how it can come across.

For me I think I was trying to (over)justify what I am doing (co-sleeping, using sling etc). Not because I think a different way of doing things is wrong but because I was insecure about what others might think of my choices. I know people/family/friends think I'm making myself a rod etc. I am not doing it to preach or because I am confident in how I'm parenting is the right way. I have many doubts/worries like most other parents.

In hindsight I can clearly see how it would have some across this way.

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 05-Aug-13 23:14:33

I'm pretty sure if people are sitting with their baby even though they respond better to being left they are Doing It Wrong, since attachment parenting is supposed to be all about the "individual needs of each child". These are the 8 Attachment Parenting Principles - some of them are worded in a particularly irritating manner, but there's nothing about smothering a child who needs space or being really permissive and never setting boundaries. In fact most AP blogs/sites/whatever which discuss discipline are all about how important boundaries are and how it's possible to set boundaries in a gentle manner which acknowledges and respects the child's needs too. (Although admittedly a lot of the time they are frustratingly woolly about how to actually do this)

I would probably be all wussy and feel disappointed though if I had a baby who liked to sleep alone. I admit I co-sleep for entirely selfish reasons - I don't want to get out of bed for night feeds and also, sleeping baby next to you = best feeling in the world ever. I'm probably weird, but I quite liked lying next to DS helping him get to sleep. I don't miss it though - I did it for long enough! But there's something about them trusting you so much at their most vulnerable time.

Sheshelob Mon 05-Aug-13 23:23:06

It's the passive aggression and shutting down of debate that roasts my chicken. I used to follow a few AP/Armadillo-type pages when I first had my son but soon de- liked them after the nth time one of the Mammas posted the guilt argument - "you obviously feel strongly about this because you feel guilty about your own choices". There are only so many times you can call bullshit before your head explodes.

Smug, self-righteous, boring twattery.

These labels ARE passive aggressive, aren't they?

Gentle / positive / natural / attachment parenting: I don't know what the difference is. They do seem to be united by the idea that anyone who doesn't subscribe to this philosophy is rough / negative / unnatural and unattached though grin

Someone said on a similar thread recently that most fans of these "extreme" philosophies have just the one child, because it's impossible to utterly devote yourself to more than one child all day long. Ain't that the truth.

Sling meets - ugh. Wanted to go to one to get some advice about wrap slings (and get out of the house, I was pretty depressed) but the website made it pretty clear that it was for a certain "type" of mother (breastfeeding, co sleeping etc.) and I knew I'd get some choice looks with my carton of Aptamil. I didn't bother going.

Also smug. Has anyone mentioned smug? I come across people who are SO PROUD they have never used a pram or buggy. I mean, srsly? You have made your life massively more inconvenient and you want praise for that?

I loved carrying (sorry, WEARING) my daughter in a sling occasionally, but I couldn't manage to plod along for more than half a mile without getting knackered, and was I supposed to fucking carry the baby bag and my groceries as well?

Sparklyboots Tue 06-Aug-13 00:19:38

This thread is so upsetting to read! I went to a couple of slingmeets to try out slings, everyone was so kind. I found the other women's geekery knowledge really reassuring. WTF should they call them, given that they are specifically about sharing knowledge/ expertise in this area?

I co-sleep, we like it. We BLW and have cloth nappies that we scraped together second hand, for mainly cost and secondarily environmental reasons. I look at gentle parenting sites because I think it's always useful to check your approach. My 'instinct' is to get a range of views on whatever you're doing; to check your thinking. So I've read the lot - Gina Ford and William Sears, Jo Frost and Alfie Kohn. I don't see why it's so ridiculous to think I might not have all answers, and see what others have to say.

I have seen some unsupportive comments made in all those contexts, and there are always people really passionately convinced that their way is correct where others aren't. But I've never seen anything quite as sneery, judgemental or aggressive to other peoples' parenting choices as some of the comments here. I feel so upset that just going to a slingmeet or discussing parenting approaches could be regarded with such contempt.

TheSecondComing Tue 06-Aug-13 00:22:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sparklyboots Tue 06-Aug-13 00:43:52

Agree re labels: calling something gentle parenting does - I'd think accidentally - imply that other ways are somehow aggressive. FWIW I don't think that's the intention, and I don't think people who are not reading that stuff are parenting 'aggressively'. I don't think i'm unusual in that perspective, either.

Fourwillies Tue 06-Aug-13 07:55:48

Sheshelob Mon 05-Aug-13 23:23:06
It's the passive aggression and shutting down of debate that roasts my chicken. I used to follow a few AP/Armadillo-type pages when I first had my son but soon de- liked them after the nth time one of the Mammas posted the guilt argument - "you obviously feel strongly about this because you feel guilty about your own choices". There are only so many times you can call bullshit before your head explodes.

Smug, self-righteous, boring twattery."

^^
This. As demonstrated in the early pages of this thread. angry

MrsDeVere Tue 06-Aug-13 08:00:09

Why is it upsetting Sparkly?
The thread is about the people who claim to be gentle and then hunt in packs, picking off weak members of the herd.

Plenty of us co-sleep, use slings, use cloth nappies and wipes etc etc etc.

If you haven't seen anything sneery or aggressive that is lovely. Fantastic for you.

But it exist. It exists to such an extent that someone wanted to talk about it and lots of people joined in.

If none of it applies to you or your experience, how can it be upsetting? [confusing]

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:06:06

urm what is armadillo parenting confused

Fourwillies Tue 06-Aug-13 08:06:47

FWIW we have a Family Bed, staffed by my husband, who co sleeps with everyone. I'm in the spare room as I'm a far lighter sleeper than he is. smile
I BF DS1 for over a year, have never left any of them to cry and a lot of the concepts of AP et al appeal to me, but probably moreso to my husband.

Mt thread was inspired by the tone of some of the voices on some of these FB pages. It took me a while to suss that many of the posters had ONE very young child, often still a babe in arms, and yet still felt entitled to spout out with supreme unshakeable confidence about applying their "mamma" theories for multiple or older children, yet not give any practical advice. And the example about taking my three preschoolers swimming, pushed me over the edge, because it's nothing short of bloody stupid to suggest that safety is based on the confidence of the mother. On that basis I may as well tell my kids they can walk in water, so long as I believe it myself.

And the other observation is that those who still "follow" these approaches and DO have large families, are held up to be some sort of a guru! I emailed one blogger, who has self published a book about how she parents her 5, and asked her the same question about what to do for days out with three very small non-compliant children, and she replied that when her kids were the same age mine are, they just didn't go out. shock Well thanks for that!

Sheshelob Tue 06-Aug-13 08:09:09

It is the default reaction and it enrages me because you can't engage with it.

It is as pernicious as the "rod for your own back" school of twats who tell you that you are being manipulated by a tiny baby. When you are a sleep-deprived new mum, you just want to be told that you are doing a good job. But there seem to be people intent on making it a competition. It's a fucking snorefest.

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:11:42

have you managed to take them swimming yet fourwillies

Sirzy Tue 06-Aug-13 08:12:22

In was on one of these Facebook pages for a while and the way people ganged up on anyone who didnt follow their ideals to the letter was awful. There seemed to be no acceptance of anyone who wasn't exactly how they felt a parent should be, individual difference not allowed!

There again I have realises that parenting groups of Facebook seem to fall into one of 2 categories "our way or its wrong" or "it's your baby Hun, if you think he needs food at a week old start the baby rice" type. So I just stay away from! (I am sure a normal group does exist somewhere!)

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:19:13

Sirzy ive a friend on one of those groups it comes up on my news feed dear god some of the advice is shock and dangerous imo , yes and a lot of babez and hunnies

Fourwillies Tue 06-Aug-13 08:23:06

MrsJay yes, but not alone! They run off!

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:27:05

I think until they are bigger you will need somebody with you you are not superwoman with numerous limbs to catch them all smile

Fourwillies Tue 06-Aug-13 08:30:17

Well indeed! I've tried growing extra eyes in my backside but to no avail! ^if only mama had just tried harder" <wistful>

And I use reins. Yes I do.

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:31:43

oh you could rein them all together like a little pack of puppies grin

kungfupannda Tue 06-Aug-13 08:33:23

While I certainly recognise the type of person being described on this thread, and have come across a reasonable number of them, the vas majority of people I know who do gentle/unconditional/positive/whatever you want to call it parenting, are lovely people with lovely, well-adjusted children.

Maybe they're just the ones doing it properly!

I use cloth nappies, and slings pretty much full time, (although I refuse to use the terms 'babywearing', 'clothbumming' or call myself or anyone else a 'mamma') and I've been to a couple of sling meets in my time. Most people have been nice and normal and welcoming. I've had a couple of raised eyebrows over the fact that I don't do the whole UP thing, am prone to shouting and waving my arms about, and use childcare because I returned to work when the DSs where 6 and 9 months respectively, but if people want to be sniffy about that, I just don't engage with them.

I've equally had raised eyebrows over my use of slings and cloth nappies, so there are always people who are going to think their way is the only way. Some people are arses about the whole thing, but then some people are arses about anything you care to mention - they just happen to have chosen parenting to be arsey about.

I think it's also easy to misinterpret people's motives, if their beliefs are very different to yours. Certainly some people will say things that are intended to be snubs/put-downs, but I think others are probably just talking about what they like to do, and not intending it as any reflection on the person they are talking to.

For example, I also know the person referenced upthread from that "hatting" link. She's not a close friend, but she's closer than a mere acquaintance, and she's lovely. Yes, she has very strong beliefs, but she doesn't try to make everyone else fall in line with them, and she'd do anything for anyone who needed help. The word "gentle" is very apt where she is concerned. She'd be horrified to know that anyone thought she was being pushy about any of the things she believes in.

Fourwillies Tue 06-Aug-13 08:40:19

"Maybe they're just the ones doing it properly!"

That's it in a nutshell. If your kids play you up, you've done it all wrong. sad

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 08:42:52

Little children need to be taught to fit into society, and to not behave in a way that is highly likely to annoy or inconvenience 99% of the population.

I have zero time for parents who deliberately chose to make their lives extremely difficult, and much more hard work than it actually has to be just because they want to sacrifice themselves on the altar of martyrdom. And then have the audacity to expect praise and admiration from those around them.

We holidayed earlier this year with a woman who indulged in many aspects of this Gentle Parenting. Being around her and her DCs was definitely not relaxing or enjoyable. Certainly neither her or her DCs were relaxed or enjoying themselves.

Her default setting seemed to be one of permenant stress, and a general air of being unable to really cope. Her DC's default setting seemed to be relentless whining and grizzling interspersed with some spectacular tantrums from her 4 yr old.

It didn't seem to occur to her to actually sharply tell her DCs off, or that their behaviour was totally unacceptable. Instead she seemed to employ endless fruitless tactics which involved lots of whispering and reasoning with them that didn't seem to achieve anything at all.

She looked on in obvious disaproval when our DCs were very sternly told off once or twice for behaving in a way that probably annoyed other people in the group.

Of course the upshot of this is that she isn't going to be asked to join us all on holiday next year.

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:47:15

there is no reasoning with a 4 year old they are all unreasonable why would anybody try and discuss any type of behaviour with a 4 year old to much responsibility on a child IMO then it can result in winging and moaning and stressful , little people can not make proper choices, Little X do you think it was ok to do that , well mum yes it was fun i loved every minute of it and will do it again even if i do fall and batter my head sigh

TheSecondComing Tue 06-Aug-13 08:49:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 08:50:04

I'm sorry my post above sounded a bit harsh. I'm sure that in years to come this woman's DCs will turn out fine but watching her deal with them in the first 5-6 years has been painful to watch and painful to endure when in her DC's company.

PoppyAmex Tue 06-Aug-13 08:54:24

I thought everyone was like me; pick-a-mix type of parenting, choosing what works best for their family regardless of where those choices fall on the parenting philosophy spectrum.

I really didn't think there were people who followed a whole system religiously and I find it very odd. Surely there's not a single parenting school out there that's appropriate for every single child and their families? confused

<off to research gentle parenting and hatting properly>

catinboots Tue 06-Aug-13 08:55:26

I have to parent my DCs?

Jeez, I didn't even know that parent was a verb.

When did it change?

I just try to look after and guide my DSs to the best of my ability.

What's with all the labels and titles and groups and fb pages??

<boggles>

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 08:55:38

I agree with you too whore winging tantruming children are annoying I know ALL children winge and can throw a wobbily but if it is constant then it must be so exhausting especially if they are doing it all the time, your friend can't be content or happy whore

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 08:56:28

Yes TheSecondComing it's a sad fact that people will avoid you and your children if you let your DCs dominate everything and tantrum if they don't instantly get their own way. It's highly unattractive behaviour and other people really, really don't like it.

Having this woman and her DCs in our holiday group really took the shine off most of the holiday. Too many lunches were ruined by her DCs antics, everyone got stressed having to listen to the whinging and grizzling. Time in the pool was difficult as her DCs wouldn't share the pool toys with other children. And she spent 2 hours every night putting her DCs to bed during which time everyone else was asked to not go upstairs incase they distrubed her 'routine'.

We won't be enduring that again.

rowtunda Tue 06-Aug-13 08:56:31

I really think it is just the titles of the parenting trends that get people's backs up and can come across as being superior.

Gentle parenting - so I am not gentle?
Attachment parenting - so i am not attached?
Unconditional parenting - so I don't unconditionally love my DS.

I'm sure that lots of people following these styles (as posted above) don't like these terms and don't think they come across this way - but I think it is the terminology itself which gets some people's backs up & makes some people (not all) a bit smug & sneery I.e they are doing right & we are not.

Also lots of people who are the most vocal are the ones who have recently had babies & i think everyone goes through a stage of thinking they have cracked it (& therefore feel they should tell you how its done) before they realise the goalposts are constantly changing and then realise in essence we are all pretty much doing the same thing and what works for one won't another.

I think mumsnet went through a stage of being quite AP/ gentle parenting heavy but now I've noticed a few threads like this. Maybe we could just ban the use of these daft parenting terms/advocating particular styles?

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 08:59:35

It's been a while since we had little children but I was really surprised that her 4yr old was still tantruming every day often 2-3 times per day. And sometimes the tantrums lasted 45 minutes with full on screaming and thrashing about and rolling on the floor.

Sheshelob Tue 06-Aug-13 09:01:25

See, this is my problem with "parenting styles". We get into slanging matches about behaviour, blaming a "style" for what is often normal, immature childhood behaviour. For all you know, the mother of the tantruming child is actually embarrassed and lost, and is clinging to a style because she has been told everything else is harmful. So she is trapped into a choice of all or nothing. I feel sorry for her, and I say that as a muddling along mother of a highly strung little boy.

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 09:02:12

those sort of tantrums are meant to stop by the time children are 4 IME, id be worried if I saw a 4 yr old tantrum like a 2 year old

TheSecondComing Tue 06-Aug-13 09:03:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sheshelob Tue 06-Aug-13 09:06:44

I wouldn't judge you, Second, unless you started a FB page advocating that as a parenting style that trumps all others, and attacked anyone who disagreed with you.

Your post highlights something that is key: we give ourselves a hard enough time. We don't need others doing it for us (unless we are actually abusing our kids).

YouTheCat Tue 06-Aug-13 09:08:41

My 18 year old ds has full on meltdowns but he's severely autistic. At 4 though, the casual observer might have just thought he was badly brought up and I was lax.

My style was more of a kind of 'oh shit what do I do now' approach though.

hamdangle Tue 06-Aug-13 09:11:22

When I read stuff like this I think about Maggie Gyllenhaal in Away We Go. I can't find a link where she talks about buggys and how she "looooves her child so would never puuush him away" but this is the trailer which has it in.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ifCIkJgUDh0

I co slept with both mine and stayed with them till they fell asleep. DS1 slept with me till he was six and DS2 is in bed with us at 8 months. In my case this is less gentle parenting and more totally lazy arse parenting grin

I also like to get in bed for a cheeky nap in the afternoon too!

Vakant Tue 06-Aug-13 09:12:25

I'm in a quite nice natural parenting Facebook group. I'm fairly natural parenting lite myself, use disposables, stopped breast feeding at a year old, co sleep occasionally but only because I'm lazy and it's the path of least resistance, didnt baby wear, pro vaccination, think homeopathy is quackery, etc etc. I've found the group I'm on ok actually, never seen any judgement for not being an extreme natural parent, and I've had some good advice on different discipline techniques etc.

It all depends on the group, I think some natural/gentle parenting techniques are really beneficial, like anything you just need to sort the wheat from the chaff.

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 09:15:44

<arf> push her child away grin that actually made me laugh,

Whowouldfardelsbear Tue 06-Aug-13 09:20:17

Must today seen a post in the "natural parenting" page I am a member of. (I realized very early it was not for me, but to be honest I have kept it fur the amusement value and to try to balance the advice every now and then so a "cry-it-outer" isn't left feeling like a total shit by rest of the "mummies" on there. (and no, Dads aren't allowed )

Anyway, today somebody posted that their 12 month old had had a severe peanut allergy reaction and been rushed off in an ambulance. Someone actually advised the next thing they should do is visit a homeopath - apparently one cured a "friend of a friend" of a life long egg allergy, that conventional medicine had been unable to help.

Whowouldfardelsbear Tue 06-Aug-13 09:20:52

*just today. Not must today.

I like what you say kungfupanda and I agree with you. Lots of the attributes of gentle/attachment/whatever parenting are great. Who wouldn't want to be gentle and attached to their kids? Co sleeping is lovely. Breastfeeding is great. Slings are very practical and snugly. But calling it some kind of movement or philosophy and labelling yourself a 'cloth bumming mama' like it's relevant, or interesting, or part of your identity - get a life!

Is your friend the person who commented on that hatting link with the lotus birth? If so I apologise for being sneery. She's a FOAF and I have been shown her Facebook page with a wtf face at some of her views but I'm sure she is lovely.

cocolepew Tue 06-Aug-13 09:59:25

The actress Mayim Bialik (Amy in TBBT) writes a big about this iirc. Her and her husband (they gave just parted) sleep on mattresses on the floor with the children ands do that thing where you don't put nappies on the children (I can't remember what it's called).

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 10:06:20

think it is called elective communication coco TBF she is a neuro scientist and I think she does a lot of work in child development but is a bit ott with it,

kungfupannda Tue 06-Aug-13 10:10:03

Ehric - we may be talking about different people. I thought you meant tbe sole commenter on the facebook link. If so, I dont know if she had a lotus birth.She did have an unassisted birth, so possibly. I met her a few months later.

She is very kind and gentle, so maybe she just doesnt come across well on Facebook!

TSC - if I'd seen you yelling in soft play I'd have thought 'ooh, a kindred spirit' and tried to be your friend!

Sirzy Tue 06-Aug-13 10:11:18

Maybe they're just the ones doing it properly!

What is properly? Is there such a thing as a proper way to parent? beyond loving and caring for and protecting the child everything is is down to what is works for that family isn't it?

To try to label something as being the proper way to parent then suggests that anyone who deviates from that is doing it the wrong way.

YouTheCat Tue 06-Aug-13 10:13:59

My twins were parented differently. I could explain things to dd but there was little point explaining things to ds in the same way as he wouldn't understand and when in meltdown it was pointless anyway.

I tried.

Yes that is her. Iirc you live in the area I grew up in(not a stalker, I remember the refusing to reverse lady threads!) and I was at school with her though she is younger and I didn't know her. She is friends with my SIL and some of their circle. I know she is a nice person, but she is certainly extreme in her views. Though there is something to be respected in living them whole heartedly the way she does.

cocolepew Tue 06-Aug-13 10:19:27

Thanks Mrsjay. She is a neuroscientist and a Holistic Mama. Apparently.

BlingBang Tue 06-Aug-13 10:38:52

so do self named AP, Gentle, Natural, UP etc parents think that everyone else doesn't do some of this stuff? are we all formula feeding, shouty, smacky parents who only love our kids when it suits us?

i extended bf, co slept and had a baby who hated to be put down - didn't realise i was being trendy - just tried to survive best i could.

gymboywalton Tue 06-Aug-13 10:49:24

it's ELIMINATION COMMUNICATION
as in eliminating waste from the body [shudder]

hamdangle Tue 06-Aug-13 10:52:13

I would like to hear some input from adults who have been parented in this way. I can't imagine the pressure I would feel if I knew my mum had devoted every single second of her life to me. I wouldn't want her to sacrifice herself entirely for me. She has her own job, husband, friends, hobbies etc. I am very close to her (I see her almost every day) but she can't remember which of me and my siblings she breast fed or for how long. We were shouted at when we were naughty and even smacked, although very rarely. We went to bed on our own from about two weeks according to my dad(although he has been known to exaggerate just a touch). I'm not mentally scarred by this but in fact have a much closer relationship with my parents than anyone I know!

I would also like to hear about parents who prescribe to this who have adult children. How do they feel when their children leave home?

Being a mother is just a part of my life. If it wasn't I would find it very hard to let go now DS is nearly 17.

mrsjay Tue 06-Aug-13 11:23:04

<heave> holistic mamma just [ut me right off my breakfast

kungfupannda Tue 06-Aug-13 11:24:14

By "doing it properly" I mean doing whatever "school" of parenting they have chosen to practice, properly.

Not doing the whole parenting malarkey properly!

But I've come across people who say they do UP, but seem to have interpreted it as "letting the child do exactly what they like at all times and sod everyone else who crosses their path", which is not, on my understanding, remotely what the UP book is talking about. On the other hand, I know someone who does UP and everything she does with her children seems normal and natural and effective, and her children are lovely, well-behaved little girls.

I don't think you can get "making it up as you go along" type parenting particularly wrong. But if you choose to follow a quite prescriptive, restrictive technique, you certainly can do it properly or get it hugely wrong!

cory Tue 06-Aug-13 11:27:13

I don't suppose anyone would quibble if these Gentle Mums confined themselves to their own special groups and facebook pages. But they don't. They will be the ones holding your child's nursery group up because their mother will insist on special treatment for her special child, their child will bash yours repeatedly over the head at softplay and still be allowed to continue playing until you have to take yours home in tears, and if you are ever fool enough to invite them round for a playdate it will take you an hour to shift them afterwards while your dinner sits waiting on the table stone cold.

MrsDeVere Tue 06-Aug-13 11:53:16

I would love to be a gentle mum. It's what I strive for and it's why I signed up to a load oh FB groups.
Despite being in my 40s, WC (relevant because of the life long parenting influences I have been subject to), mother of 5 and an Early Years profesional....I stil knew there was lots I could learn
So I didn't join to sneer. I genuinely wanted to learn.

But I was so appalled by what I saw (and bear in mind I am used to Aibu!) that I unsubbed from every single one.

I am not a scaredy cat or precious...I just hated all the put downs and button pushing. It was horrible!

It's not confined to gentle parenting, it's everywhere. It just seems a bit more ironic when it happens on these pages

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 12:05:40

And that's the problem with them Cory. Their silly foibles and attitudes often impact negatively on those around them in a big way. But they don't seem to notice, let alone care.

I've had those playdates where the child doesn't want to leave and the Mum seems totally unable to say sharply 'Just get your shoes on right now, we're leaving.' Sometimes it can take an hour for them to finally leave our house and it drives me mad. I'm expecting them to leave at 6.30pm and plan my evening accordingly, but they're still lingering around at 7.45pm and everything is screwed up.

I'm the sort of Mum who used to sometimes shout and never had a problem letting my DCs know when I was cross with them. But it meant that my children knew at a young age what was and wasn't acceptable behaviour. I could be very flexible with them but when it was important and I said 'Jump' they knew to jump grin

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 12:13:23

I'm very wary of those groups for the same reasons as you MrsDevere. I think that many Mums join those groups and adopt a specific style of parenting not because they necessarily believe it's the right way to raise their child.

They join them because of deep seated insecurities that probably existed long before they became a parent. They join them because they want to feel like they 'belong' somewhere and they like having set rules and guidelines to follow because it makes them feel secure and helps them 'judge their progress and the progress of others.'

And yes sadly it gives them a self perceived moral highground from where they can look down on other parents and push their buttons.

Viviennemary Tue 06-Aug-13 12:18:51

Gentle parenting. Not quite sure what that is. Presumably letting a child run riot and create total havoc while you stand by and wring your hands. Or something similar.

Angelico Tue 06-Aug-13 12:53:56

Very funny thread grin I didn't realise the perils of hatting before now!

I am very much of the 'love your child and do your best' school of thought. Disciplining children is crucial and it is so unfair that the child pays the price / gets the blame socially when parents have failed to discipline. We have lovely friends who we won't invite to stay again after a nightmare visit with their DC. DC1 was a nightmare - constant whingeing and tantrums with no discipline or consequences ever.

HaroldLloyd Tue 06-Aug-13 13:39:05

Some of these groups make AIBU look like a hug-fest.

Lady asking for advice about weaning a premature baby as told by doctors etc to start at 6 mo corrected:

If you want to Force Feed your baby solids before she is developmentally ready then its Up to You.

Imagine how that would make you feel.

Seems odd to me that some people feel better about taking advice from self styled internet parenting gurus than medical professionals.

I must stop looking!

charleyturtle Tue 06-Aug-13 16:21:50

I know one of these "I do gentle parenting so I have ALL the answers about parenting and you will hear my opinion even if you never asked for it" type of women. She does my head in! Constantly sending me "helpful" links via facebook with little messages like "I expect you are having problems with sleeping/ teething/ weaning so I thought this would help" the most annoying thing about it is that i have never had any problems with my dd (i am very lucky i know) she slept through the night at about 2 weeks old. took to solid food like a duck to water (our biggest problem is her hissy fits when you tell her dinner is finished) and the only way we knew she was teething was because her little tooth poped through. where as my friends child still wont sleep through at nearly 2 years old, is an incredibly fussy eater and her partner has told us they have no end to the trouble with their ds because she rufuses to tell him off of "make" him do anything he doesn't want to (apparently he wont go to bed before 11 because he doesn't want to). I am not slagging off her parenting by any means but it really gets under my skin that she is always giving me parenting advice i have never asked for on issues i have never told her (or anyone) that i have.

I don't think i have all, or any of, the answers about parenting. i know how to look after my dd in a way that works for us but i know she is so completely different from any baby i have known because they are all individuals and i think it is so wrong that these groups have a go at anyone who parents their dcs differently from them even if it works for them.

WhoreOfTheWorlds Tue 06-Aug-13 16:36:47

I'm just the same as you Angelico, and I feel like a bad person for saying it sad

I have friends who seem unable to discipline their DCs effectively and there never seems to be any consequences if their DCs are being naughty. Their form of 'discipline' seems to comprise of repeatedly saying calmly 'You really should think about what you're doing, it's not very nice is it' etc. While their child completely ignores them and carries on being naughty.

Eventually the child gets fed up and wanders off to be annoying somewhere else. And our friends congratulates themselves for having handled the situation in a very calm manner without having to show any annoyance or wound the child's self esteem (or some such crap).

Our friends don't seem to realise or care that everyone else around them has been unfairly subjected to 30 minutes of their child's tantruming and whinging.

Then they wonder why the don't often get invited to the group BBQs or picnics or why they're not included on the Round Robin holiday emails for that year. It's such a shame.

Diamond7 Tue 06-Aug-13 17:47:27

My LO is only 7mths and I'm terrified of her becoming a toddler and the parenting actually starting. As mentioned above I co sleep, use sling etc but hate the term attachment parenting. So far it has worked for this LO, she doesnt get winding down. Never has. Thankfully the sling works and we both get a good amount of sleep. Maybe Im making things worse in the long run but right now it works, she is happy(most of the time), I am happy (most of the time if I can have wine). I do have very wobbly days though and find myself over justifing the rod I am creating. I may have to deal with the rod one day but right now I'm enjoying my baby.

Before this trend I hadn't heard of unconditional parenting but had heard of gentle parenting/positive discipline (I'm not on any FB parenting groups, don't know whether I'm now intrigued to look or terrified in to staying well away). My understanding is that it's not about not having discipline but being empathetic to their feelings, boundaries and discipline of a type are important. No idea how this works in practice. I like some of the ideas but in no way wish to follow any one parenting style/set of rules. I think there are very very few purists out there in all forms of parenting. There are probably as many gina ford extremists as there are AP/UP extremists.

I am sure the OP is completely accurate in her original post but I think there is a lot of over generalising going on which makes me quite uncomfortable. I think there are probably a hand full of over opinionated, and/or vary narrow minded, self righteous mums who ruin the vibe of the whole thing. I am sure this is no different than other non-AP/UP pages? I don't think it's fair to tar all mums with similar ideas with the same brush.

I don't want to follow a parenting style, I don't want to get boxed in to a parenting style or judged because I 'babywear' and not offended by the term. I feel very neive. I have a step and scary learning curve ahead. I hope we naturally find what works for us and I hope I don't offend anyone in the process. I know there will be tears. Reading this trend has just made me more scared.

Sorry for the slightly off tanget emotional drivel. And for the fact I have completely forgotten how to write.

Diamond7 Tue 06-Aug-13 17:51:53

The terms (AP, UP etc) do really need to go. Who came up with them?! They make me cringe too.

nenevomito Tue 06-Aug-13 18:30:17

I have two friends very much into the baby wearing / attachment parenting ethos.

One is utterly lovely and is doing it as it suits her and her child but its not the be all and end all for her. The other, sadly, is the sneers kind. Not only are her children pretty much her only topic of conversation, but her judging of everyone else is tiresome. Sometimes I feel like shouting "but where are YOU in all this?"

Your parenting style should be just that; yours.

One caveat to that is the whole gentle parenting malarky. Never have I ever met such badly behaved children as those of a serious gentle parenter. Children need love, attention and boundaries. Talking at them is risible.

MiaowTheCat Tue 06-Aug-13 18:57:38

HaroldLloyd pretty much what some bitch said to me... same deal in terms of a prem baby and whatever. I should have ignored all medical advice and hung on months and months and months in order to BLW or be deemed to be "ramming food down your child's throat"

I've seen a LOT of parenting shit hurled on the internet but it was utterly, totally the most hurtful thing said to me as of yet - still makes me angry nearly a year on from it.

That was on a peace and flowers and fluff fluff fluff nicey nicey site where they all call each other mama as well.

LongTailedTit Wed 07-Aug-13 02:56:01
cory Wed 07-Aug-13 08:20:42

Diamond, I wouldn't worry about the whole rod for your back thing. Children change so many times during those years, you are going to be changing your approach so many times too to adapt to them, there is no way you will be treating a big 9yo like you are treating your lo at the moment and by the time he gets to 9 he will have forgotten whatever you are doing now.

My own parenting philosophy is simple: remember that your children do not exist in a vacuum. I need to know it and they need to learn it. All the members of our family matter, all families around matter, we all need to be sensitive to each other's needs. And if that means swooping in and removing my own little horror for the greater good, then so be it.
(well, so was it- she is 16 now, so will have to be in charge of her own swooping).

petuniapickletits Wed 07-Aug-13 09:03:17

I haven't revisited this thread since first page and I see its gotten very busy here!

I do not subscribe to a label, but know that much of my parenting relates to AP ethos. But im very much of the school of thought that whatever works, works. We gave cloth a damn good go but found it too difficult for our lifestyle. Not beating myself up over it..nor did I make anyone feel bad for using disposables while I was using cloth. I did blw, but gasp always spoon fed yogurt!
I bf a long time but Dd did have bottles too. We cosleep when needed but always put her in her own room to start with. I need sleep. .she needs sleep..I cbf to spend all night putting her back. Ive had as many buggies as slings..

anyway my point is.. I do what I like and maybe a bit oblivious to any snobbery going on but only tend to refer to these pages if im after certain info. ........id be mortified if anyone felt I was judging them for parenting differently!

chesterberry Wed 07-Aug-13 09:57:42

Love the cat-hatting LongTailedTit grin

congresstart Wed 07-Aug-13 17:50:04

I just checked on of the facebook pages out...very nicey, nicey on the surface, why do they all call each other mama and the babys bubs?. I always find that kind of fluffy language a bit try hard TBH, like that makes you a fabulous parent talking like a fool.

And amber teething ring for the pain anyone? sounds really effective. It's not for me really.

BlingBang Wed 07-Aug-13 20:30:24

just looked at a Gentle Parenting FB site. didn't seem anything like folk have been saying on here.

mam29 Wed 07-Aug-13 21:21:19

Theres a group of local women i sort of know in passing who called themselves mamas.Amazing mamas
for that reason i avoi their toddler groups
have no intention of applying to their school.

They into breastfeeding and cloth-fine so was i
very anti religion and go on about how all schools should be secular.
on surface nice but quite bitchy.

Its one thing see them on fb another thing to come face to face with them.

But sits through fb i realised what they like and some of their veiws

YoniBottsBumgina Wed 07-Aug-13 22:42:14

I'm finding this thread a mixture of interesting and hard work. I keep wanting to say things but can't seem to formulate the words. So just sort of checking in really.

I think my problem is I read too much, fall in love with something ideologically and then if it doesn't work I get really frustrated with myself!

LotsOfNettleTea Wed 07-Aug-13 23:05:13

I'm on a couple of these facebook groups and some of the people on there are lovely, others not. I think for a lot of people they're just another way of coping and talking through issues with someone who has similar ideals. For example (and I'm not talking about myself) sometimes its nice to complain about a difficult night feeding every half an hour without being told just to put them on the bottle. Some people do seem a bit OTT though, and I wouldn't want to give my parenting 'style' a name!

FrogsGoWhat Wed 07-Aug-13 23:20:50

I joined a couple of these groups because I was fed up being "the weirdo" who used slings rather than prams, cloth nappies, and breastfed and coslept.

The fact that I did all of the above (apart from cloth nappies - that was just being cheapskate grin to deal with my nightmare, never sleeping, never able to put down DD - was neither here nor there - a lot of people on these groups also fell into a "style" of parenting just to cope with their rather difficult babies.

And even now it is quite nice to have somewhere to talk about how to deal with requests to breastfeed a toddler when out and about, or how often they still feed at night etc without being made to feel a weirdo again.

Generally I find them supportive, and most people are nice (I avoid the ones where people call each other "mama" - makes my teeth itch! grin

But yes, there are some people who are a bit "committed" to it all ideologically, and sound a bit nuts about it all. So you just ignore them eh? confused

Although I love a good argument about how quacky homeopathy is, and that vaccination is actually a good thing etc. Oh and yes I DO praise my child, and say "good girl" etc. And I was the one rugby-ball carrying my tantrumming 2 yo away from the swing park this afternoon.... just because I like to be a gentle parent doesn't mean that I don't enforce boundaries (like we need to go NOW) grin

BlingBang Thu 08-Aug-13 08:28:56

see, i like the idea of being a gentle parent rather than a shouty one. just don't know if it's in my nature and how much your upbringing still weedles in. definitely more gentle than my parents were but times have moved on.

PeazlyPops Thu 08-Aug-13 09:48:46

A Facebook acquaintance has her employment section filled in as "full time mummy - attachment parenting" biscuit

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