Doreen Lawrence

(153 Posts)
DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 16:42:47

Sorry for the new nickname; those who know me already would understand why. Doreen Lawrence has been nominated for an honour from The Queen; whatever you might think about it (an personally I think it's a great idea), have a look at what's being said on this:

www.arrse.co.uk/current-affairs-news-analysis/202239-breaking-news-doreen-lawrence-made-peer.html

Morgause Wed 31-Jul-13 16:45:03

How deeply unpleasant - and the site is linked to the army?

Wonderstuff Wed 31-Jul-13 16:47:46

What a horrid site, that prick Griffin has objected. I find it very depressing that people can't see the enormous contribution she has made to the UK.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 16:48:17

It's a well known site but it's not really the Army, although I'd suggest the Army's image might suffer from some fallout on occasion. It's a horrible site filled with hate and there's been one or two run-ins with us here before.

Oh, how I wish I had not clicked that link!

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 16:52:05

That is totally vile, why are these people so horrific and thick?

ephemeralfairy Wed 31-Jul-13 16:53:47

All I can see there is veiled racism. Makes my blood boil. I bet none of them made such nasty comments when Sara Payne was awarded her MBE.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 16:55:04

It would appear there is some competition to be the most unpleasant. One poster has (he calls himself Seb Coe!?): "her son's murder was the making of her". How low is it possible to go?

ubik Wed 31-Jul-13 16:55:09

I don't know why you feel the need to highlight the link on mumsnet.
There are arseholes everywhere - especially on the Internet.

Doreen Lawrence endured far worse than a bunch if cement- heads on the Internet.

The saddest thing is the regularity of this type of racism and misogyny

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 17:00:16

I suppose. Sorry, it just upset me. I saw it on DH's pc. Says he's not part of it and was just looking but I don't know his nickname so I don't know.

meditrina Wed 31-Jul-13 17:00:24

I read only the first and last page (currently page 8) of the ArRSe thread. The first page is all "why" and the last page is about the question "In fact it is a merit question - should such a person, brought into the spotlight by such an event, and having subsequently acted with appropriate levels of energy and decorum, and the future promise of doing so in the future, merit a place in the Lords?"

Plus a bucketload of criticism of earlier boneheaded posters.

Bit like an AIBU really, when the usual suspects gradually get outnumbered and out argued?

WorraLiberty Wed 31-Jul-13 17:00:29

Everyone knows that website is crass.

But why bring this on to Mumsnet?

Every time someone does this we get invaded by trolls hmm

MrsDeVere Wed 31-Jul-13 17:07:32

That woman is extraordinary.
My admiration for her is emmense

I know for a fact that she would give all the awards and plaudits back in a second if she could have her boy back.
A second.

I don't have many heros but she is one of them.

He has displayed integrity, fortitude, bravery and intelligence at a time when she could be forgiven for never leaving her house again.

The fact that Griffin thinks a thing is wrong can only prove its rightness.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 17:11:15

WorraLiberty: To discuss it. If you'd rather not you don't have to.

MalcolmTuckersMum Wed 31-Jul-13 17:14:27

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 17:16:13

MrsDeVere I couldn't agree more, especially with your second paragraph. In fact, I imagined that a substantial majority of the nation would be behind this honour. This is why I was so shocked to read what I did.

stickingattwo Wed 31-Jul-13 17:18:17

It's a site full of people in the services - not sure what you expected OP - best stay away from it.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 17:19:30

Thank you. I think I will.

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 17:20:06

Just a bunch of fucking racists on that site and that is why Doreen Lawrence is a voice we so need to keep listening to.

burberryqueen Wed 31-Jul-13 17:20:31

i am not even going to click on it - Mrs Lawrence is a heroine

HeySoulSister Wed 31-Jul-13 17:21:28

nice one op.....now when they get wind of this they will be over here trolling. well done! hmm

meditrina Wed 31-Jul-13 17:23:25

It's a public site which does not establish the bona fides of its members.

Yes it has an Army theme, but no, it's not known how many of its membership have ever served in the British Forces.

Anti-ArRSe posts do turn up on MN from time to time - and I suspect a perceived need for a NC may be connected to that.

burberryqueen Wed 31-Jul-13 17:24:50

i am not even going to click on it - Mrs Lawrence is a heroine

burberryqueen Wed 31-Jul-13 17:25:14

oops posted twice....

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 17:25:43

So it's better to let them peddle their vile hatred and not even mention it to save you the possible later inconvenience of someone trolling then? So sorry I thought this was a forum where people could bring stuff to the table. Is it not?

MrsDeVere Wed 31-Jul-13 17:32:18

I think some posters are being harsh on the op.
Her reasons for posting seem feasible.
I don't think we should be avoiding mention or linking to a site for fer of trolls.
That way they win

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 17:32:54

Everyone knows that website is crass.

I had never heard of it,

But why bring this on to Mumsnet?

I imagine the OP want to share it.

Is there a list of what can be shared on MN? it would be useful to know.

Every time someone does this we get invaded by trolls

Really, and so what, if nasty little bullies want to appear, I dare say we can put them back in the box in which they belong.

So we should not discuss vile behaviour in case the vile people turn their attention on us, wouldn't that make us a bunch of cowards.

If my child was murdered by racist cowards, and I had to fight for justice for many years, then endure more vile abuse from more vile racist tiny penis thick turd like people, I would hope other parents such as the ones you find on popular parenting forums, would want to support me.

meditrina Wed 31-Jul-13 17:42:45

Most of the ArRSe thread is quoting and bashing comments on the Daily Mail website.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 17:45:31

Thank You MrsDeVere and quoteunquote. flowers I was actually shaking and not going to write any more until I read your kind words. I sent a message to meditrina to tell my usual name, i'm not ashamed of it like someone said, just being careful. Also not ashamed of my DH.

meditrina Wed 31-Jul-13 17:45:52

Sorry - I meant quoting comments and bashing the red arrows.

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 17:49:18

nice one op.....now when they get wind of this they will be over here trolling. well done!

Again, where is the list of acceptable and non acceptable things to talk about?

and for them to know that MNers are talking about their vile behaviour one of them at least would have to be a MNer,

I don't mind having a discussion with anyone about their bigot like behaviour.

claig Wed 31-Jul-13 17:49:53

From what I have read on there, it seems they are questioning if the Mail is not allowing negative comments.

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 17:52:27

Bring on the discussion. I have a boring night on a ferry to fill and tackling self imposed censorship because of 'fear' of trolls needs discussing too. Bit tired of Mners bossing others about re what 'can' and 'cannot' be posted here.

meditrina Wed 31-Jul-13 17:56:13

OP: PM received and reply sent. Looks like I was conflating two things that did not belong together.

Claig: they're saying that, but also criticising the hundreds (literally) of red arrows and not a single green arrow. And pointing out what that means about (various epithets not being copied over) Mail readers.

claig Wed 31-Jul-13 17:58:42

meditrina, I think you are reading that wrong. Reread the thread. they are asking how come so many arrows are red and so few arrows are green, and yet nearly all the comments are positive.

claig Wed 31-Jul-13 18:00:00

Someone even says something like has the Daily Mail become the Guardian.

Burmobasher Wed 31-Jul-13 18:02:12

Hey OP, don't let those posters upset you. I had never heard of this website either so thank you for bringing it to my attention although I won't click on the link.
Your opinion is as valid as anybody else's, some posters do seem to make it their business to tell others what is acceptable to post on MN but none of them are the boss here.

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 18:02:54

mignonette

No one want to share the list of what is OK and not OK,

It does make you realise why people can be attacked in public places and no one comes to help,

Clearly all these people who object to the OP pointing out that these hideous excuses of humans are being vile about Doreen Lawrence, have never and will never, want or need any support from anyone.

must be amazing to go through life knowing nothing bad will ever happen to you, unique in fact as I have never met a single person who has had a life like that.

and there are quite a few on this thread,

I do hope they share how to achieve this fortuitous feat of the perfect charmed life, I would love to know.

Pagwatch Wed 31-Jul-13 18:03:01

They will come over here and troll

I always wonder at 'look racist/sexist/wankers are on the Internet' threads tbh.

It's nice to know how much she pisses them off though

Pagwatch Wed 31-Jul-13 18:05:50

It's not about having a charmed life.
It's just about knowing that these creatures exist, nothing changes their mind and all ths does is bring them here - to have a go at anyone wh aprons to get in their path.
Those of us who have anyone fragile in our lives don't really welcome that tbh.

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 18:07:07

Exactly Quote. They can just walk on by to the naicer threads.

Pagwatch Wed 31-Jul-13 18:13:09

What bollocks.

I spend all my life deling with wankere shouting retard at my son.
Do I want to send weeks of my life deling ith the fall out because someone links a franke Boyle website here?
Er no.

Charmed life, my arse.

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 18:28:55

all ths does is bring them here

No that is not true,

several posters including myself have said they were unaware of the forum,

so it has been informative,

and as I said someone on MN must inform them of the thread, lurker or active MN if that is true.

It's just about knowing that these creatures exist, nothing changes their mind and all ths does is bring them here - to have a go at anyone wh aprons to get in their path

so we all stay quite and pretend that them attacking Doreen Lawrence isn't happening?

that quite a plan, how do you see that plan ending.

First they came.......

WorraLiberty Wed 31-Jul-13 18:32:54

Informative?

BREAKING NEWS...there's an internet forum where some people are being racist.

Who new?

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 18:45:27

Thanks Burmobasher, it's nice to be reassured. Pagwatch I don't really know what to say cos its clearly not nice for you; I'm sorry. Maybe other threads might be less upsetting and more supportive?

As far as the thread goes it seems to have died down, with the last poster congratulating the participants on their restraint. ??

ubik Wed 31-Jul-13 18:47:31

You are flattering them with your attention. You make them feel that what they say is somehow important

It isn't.

Why does anyone need to know about that forum? Why visit it?

MariaLuna Wed 31-Jul-13 18:49:10

Thank God I didn't click on the link. I don't want that kind of filth on my computer.

I think it is brilliant that she got it, the House of Lords needs more people like her in it.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 18:53:27

I'm not aware of making them feel anything tbh. Nothing has been said to suggest I have other than by you. I already explained how I saw what was being said.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 18:54:30

Sorry that was reply to ubik.

WineNot Wed 31-Jul-13 18:57:09

I don't wan that kind of filth on my computer

Some of them might say the same about some of the more extreme left wing ranting on here

It's the Internet and last time I checked, freedom of perhaps was still all the rage.

But greet news. Can't think of anyone I'd rather have sitting in the Lord's.

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 18:58:50

BREAKING NEWS...there's an internet forum where some people are being very touchy about posters discussing racist behaviour.

I really feel for Doreen Lawrence, her family, friends,community, they must feel really betrayed by society.

I can't even begin to know what she is going through, I have two dead sons, but to have your child killed to amuse and satisfy hatred filled men must be the most unbearable pain,

I found it hard to function,when my boys died, even breathing was a conscious effort, , yet she with full dignity has fought a long unnecessary fight for justice,

And we as a society still allow these people to attack and hurt her.

On MN there are endless threads about supporting people out of abusive relationships,

Do we only support people who are attacked by solo operatives?

But we have threads about toxic family or friends, so we support people who are attacked and abused by more than one.

We have threads about individuals who attack groups of people, Frankie boyle on disabled people,

I find it odd that some posters do not want to stand up for Doreen Lawrence, and object to someone drawing attention to this horrific behaviour.

If there are some of those sad people from that site looking at MN, they must be thinking, brilliant those people will never stand up to us, or speak out against us, we rule, lets do what we want.

WineNot Wed 31-Jul-13 18:59:41

freedom of speech I meant.

WorraLiberty Wed 31-Jul-13 19:06:57

Look, there's nothing wrong with discussing racist behavior.

But linking to a thread on another forum where that behavior is being displayed, is just silly.

All it does is attract trolls and trouble.

I'm not sure if you genuinely can't understand that quote or if you're just being disingenuous?

WorraLiberty Wed 31-Jul-13 19:08:33

And I'm quite sure the OP expects repercussions, or why would she bother name changing?

ThePowerof3 Wed 31-Jul-13 19:11:20

How depressing

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 19:16:53

Hiya Worra. Don't know what to expect, I'm sensing more repercussions from here than I ever imagined tbh, if that's what you mean. I dont expect repercussions from the Arse as I don't have contact. I already told mig and medi my real name, and will quote too, in a moment. Simple enough for a check. OK?

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 19:18:52

I know who Despair is....twilight music grin....It is not subterfuge...She quite rightly has put extra measures in place to allow her to exercise some of speech.

WorraLiberty Wed 31-Jul-13 19:19:00

I don't care what your name is OP

My point still remains the same

But you obviously don't seem to get it so I'll bow out now.

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 19:19:12

some freedom of speech I mean...

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 19:20:42

There's potential for trolling etc with many links. Maybe we should stick to links of blank pages in future y'know. In case something nasty comes out.....

RoxyFox211 Wed 31-Jul-13 19:25:19

Omgconfused. Those assholes. "an insult to white victims of racism"?!? Are they fcking serious?shock. Her son was brutally murdered in a racist attack. It doesn't get much worse than that (apart from if you also have to fight the bloody system set up to protect and serve you to actually do their jobs because your son was black). She deserves every credit.

ethelb Wed 31-Jul-13 19:30:14

I don't think this is just about racism either, it is another example of a woman with an opinion having violent threats made against her online.

There is a post on that site suggesting she should be burried in concrete ffs.

For daring to be a public figure and a black woman.

I had never heard of this website before and would like to investigate how much awareness the army has and what it's policy on the use of social media is.

I don't think the op realized that linking and the hits from mumsnet will bring them scurrying over here.

But they will.

grim

ethelb Wed 31-Jul-13 19:35:01

@thisisaeuphemism where we will do our best to show them how unforgivable their behaviour is.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 19:55:27

Thisisaeuphemism: no I didnt and tbh I still don't understand how it could, but then again I don't know much (anything) about computers and how they work blush
ethelb: but this makes me feel a bit better about it smile

To Doreen if you ever see this: Congratulations you fantastic fantastic woman! wine

Wonderstuff Wed 31-Jul-13 20:10:55

ethelb I think you're right, very depressing, did notice a post about if it was her husband it would be OK. I wonder if we will ever get to the time when being a woman gives you equal status to being a man? If being black allows you the same voice as being white? How do these people, the racists, the misogynists, justify it to themselves?

quoteunquote Wed 31-Jul-13 20:14:15

But linking to a thread on another forum where that behavior is being displayed, is just silly

Because they may or may not come after us?

All it does is attract trolls and trouble

Oh Yes, good point, lets all keep our heads down and let them keep beating up on Doreen, she is use to it. hmm

Look, there's nothing wrong with discussing racist behaviour

but heck don't draw attention to disapproval, or they may turn on us.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

I am so glad we have Doreen Lawrence, we need more people to stand up to these hateful people, because without those with a back bone we are all royally screwed.

Go on that forum and do it then.

These people are thick as shit and they are women-haters.

What they have done, historically, is to troll the sections here where women are more vulnerable. Perhaps you could now link them to those threads to make it easier?

The link has been done. If it attracts the trolls, we will deal with them as we have always done. Maybe the best thing to do is to stand up and be counted. There is so much misogyny and racism on the net, violent threats and attempts to silence. We have a website here which is mainly a female space. They can come here, doesn't mean they get it their own way.

I'm frankly feeling a bit militant after the rape threats against a woman who just wanted a woman on a bank note. Doreen Lawrence has made the UK a better, more just and more open democracy. Goodness knows how angry SHE must make these scum.

Tweasels Wed 31-Jul-13 20:25:07

The last time those fuckwits came on here it was ridiculous. I think we held our own and they give up in the end but in the process of that I read some utterly vile mysoginistic shit which made me feel very concerned.

OP, you've done nothing wrong but I'm not surprised people are wary.

ubik Wed 31-Jul-13 20:27:30

Are you really comparing pearl- clutching at the comments of some no-hopers on a stupid Internet forum with Doreen and Neville Lawrence's courage taking on the whole criminal justice system and the government to get justice fir their son?

Really?

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 20:29:46

The less vulnerable defend the vulnerable. But censoring to avoid having to do this is a really bad way to go.

Why the hell is the op getting attacked here? Is it easier to take him/her on than a bunch of rascists?

ubik was that to me?

I don't think the op has been attacked - do you feel attacked op?

People have expressed concerned about the link. And about giving idiot twats a wider audience - which is what they want and makes them feel important.

I would like to discuss how we feel about Doreen Lawrence's appointment which is brilliant.

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 20:46:56

Thisisaeuphemism: Well I did a bit tbh, but then Ive nothing really to compare it with lol. But I never intended to hurt anyones feelings or to invite trolls to start on anybody. I have had some nice messages though and some nice support on here. The bits I don't get is how making a link would alert anyone?

I feel Doreen's appointment is brilliant too. They say that some people "have greatness thrust upon them", and I just know as we all surely do she would rather still be plain old Doreen Lawrence who has a son, Stephen, but she isn't and doesn't and to me thats the saddest thing imaginable.

spotscotch Wed 31-Jul-13 20:50:22

What is the link between the Arrse (an apt name) and the Army, just out of interest? There must be a large proportion of army people on there, just as the majority, although by no means all, members of mumsnet are parents.

Why don't the army get the forum shut down, the views expressed on there are so fucking vile and thick it makes me want to cry. It's not exactly a great image of 'Our Boys' is it?

mignonette Wed 31-Jul-13 20:50:40

Like 'Greatness thrust upon them'....Something she never wanted and would happily set down if she could.

Sallyingforth Wed 31-Jul-13 21:01:33

I haven't read that link because I'm not interested in what they say there.

My only concern is that the honour might be degraded by the inevitable accusation that it was given by the party leader to attract votes. But then I suspect that many honours are indeed given to curry favour.

MrsDeVere Wed 31-Jul-13 21:10:00

She may well have countered that sally as she will be sitting on the Labour benches smile

everlong Wed 31-Jul-13 21:15:45

What mrsD said at 17.07.

Not clicking link.

Sallyingforth Wed 31-Jul-13 21:17:32

I hope she will have time to take her seat.

ubik Wed 31-Jul-13 22:16:30

I'm not attacking op, her intentions were good and it is shocking to see racist attitudes so overtly expressed.

Isabeller Wed 31-Jul-13 22:21:24

Have not clicked on link, sounds like a load of unpleasant unpatriotic people criticising our dear Queen. And Doreen. Harrumph.

WineNot Wed 31-Jul-13 22:28:52

Have not clicked on link, sounds like a load of unpleasant unpatriotic people criticising our dear Queen. And Doreen. Harrumph.

Call them whatever you like but I wouldn't class them as 'unpatriotic'

DespairSometimes Wed 31-Jul-13 22:39:11

ubik: Thank You, made me feel a lot better.

spotscotch: "the views expressed on there are so fucking vile and thick it makes me want to cry." is exactly how i felt and told DH in no uncertain terms, just didn't expect to see it. shock

PomBearArmy Thu 01-Aug-13 01:30:47

I had no idea some people held such negative views on Doreen Lawrence. That's baffling to me.

PomBearArmy Thu 01-Aug-13 01:54:55

Ah, now I understand. It's an actual forum of dedicated racists. Charming...

stooshe Thu 01-Aug-13 08:48:08

Personally, as black woman, I hope that she doesn't accept. It will only neutralise her and quite frankly no political parties in Britain at the moment want anybody with an ounce of "umph" out there being "political". This tactic of duping genuine "not in it for the shine" activists with bread and circus promises which are withdrawn as soon as the former activist gets mainstream political cachet is so old as to become boring. I'm still reeling from witnessing baroness Amos being wheeled out to apologise on behalf of Britain about some colonial atrocity it committed (I can't remember which). That she did it with a straight face ...I don't know, but I hate her now for being yet another in a long line of selfish sell outs. I hope they don't do Ms. Lawrence that way. I hope that any skeletons in her cupboard are rattling openly for all that matter to see. Only a blind somebody can't see what is being done here. Compared to what could happen, the open racists on that link are just empty barrels making too much noise.

MrsDeVere Thu 01-Aug-13 09:28:18

I find that those who do the most breat beating about Dear Old Engerland are the most unpatriotic winenot

All they seem to do is moan about how crap it is.

Doesn't seem very patriotic to me.

FreudiansSlipper Thu 01-Aug-13 09:33:53

i can not think of many other people that i believe should get a peerage but if anyone through their tireless work is worthy she certainly is

AuntieStella Thu 01-Aug-13 09:42:45

Those "not clicking link" should let go of their pearls. Or at least stop making assumptions about what is actually on the thread.

That thread contains a mix of comments - many from those who are unaware of her activities since the murder simply wondering why, some in support and lots condemning the Daily Mail. The few comments which went beyond that were dealt with on the thread. And of course some support the appointment.

And of course now they know of the existence of this thread: to quote jarrod:

"You can guarantee a few (troublesome posters) will go and troll mumsnet, they just can't help themselves. And a few of there most screeching of harpies will probably come here. All the normal people from both sites will just carry on normal jogging and ignore each other.

I say we give them (troublesome posterW) as a sacrifice"

Sallyingforth Thu 01-Aug-13 10:07:06

I'm told by someone who claims to know, that the site has a lot of users who are skinhead wannabe NF types who pose as soldiers.

Dackyduddles Thu 01-Aug-13 10:11:12

I absolutely detest that link.

But I'm not behind the honour either. I have no issue to her being given it. There's just others if rather see get one. That's all. I feel like that about quite a few of them too.

ubik Thu 01-Aug-13 10:42:22

I don't have to click a link on the Internet to know that none headed knuckle-draggers exist.
Clicking on a link on the Internet isn't some fabulous act of courage.

Sallyingforth Thu 01-Aug-13 10:43:07

I understand that Dacky. I feel the same. There's too much politics involved.

emuloc Thu 01-Aug-13 11:20:01

I have no desire to look at the link. Doreen Lawrence has done nothing but carry herself with dignity and a quite determination all these years. I wish her well.

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 12:05:34

Sallyingforth - "I'm told by someone who claims to know, that the site has a lot of users who are skinhead wannabe NF types who pose as soldiers."

You either made that up or you have been informed by someone with no idea about that site. I'll wager you 'made that up'

verilyverity Thu 01-Aug-13 12:16:07

I feel the need to comment.

Auntie Stella:

Those "not clicking link" should let go of their pearls. Or at least stop making assumptions about what is actually on the thread.

Good idea.

That thread contains a mix of comments - many from those who are unaware of her activities since the murder simply wondering why, some in support and lots condemning the Daily Mail. The few comments which went beyond that were dealt with on the thread. And of course some support the appointment.

Not one statement made regarding poster being "unaware of her activities..."

"Some in support" Really? How many? Let me apprise: NONE. Two posters supportive, but only tacitly.

"And of course some support the appointment."

But of course (refer to the above) NONE do, as far as one can see.

And of course now they know of the existence of this thread

They know of the existence of the thread because a made-up poster alerted them to it, in post 120:

Was over on mumsnet and saw this thread about arrse. I'm sympathetic towards you guys by the way.

to quote jarrod:

Actually you're not quoting jarrod. You're quoting a response by someone calling himself mac, to jarrod's modified post:

"You trolley bothering shelf stacking fantasist never served F-cking civvy C-nt"

This is the quote:

* You can guarantee a few (troublesome posters) will go and troll mumsnet, they just can't help themselves. And a few of there most screeching of harpies will probably come here. All the normal people from both sites will just carry on normal jogging and ignore each other.

I say we give them (troublesome posterW) as a sacrifice *

Substituting (troublesome poster/s) for what is actually written (m-ngs) imbues the quote with a maturity and sensitivity that it did not actually intend to convey.

The thread is much less menacing than it was a while ago; it has been cleaned right up. Doreen Lawrence and Diane Abbot come in for a continual slagging in those pages though.

BTW, one of ARRSERs big cheeses is called Aunty Stella.

Comments?

spotscotch Thu 01-Aug-13 12:17:49

Auntie, the comments on there are not what I would call a mix and some of them are positively vile. But the worst thing is that when people wrote stuff like 'she is milking it, her sons murder was the making of her' and 'she has played the victim and gone on about it over and over again' no one really pulls them up on it. No matter what your views on her proposed appointment are, comments like that surely should be seen as universally pretty disgusting. But far from anyone saying 'that is a horrible comment' a moderator in fact comes onto the thread to congratulate everyone on being so 'sensible' hmm

I know that it is a complete waste of energy to even get bothered about that forum, but argh!

Sallyingforth Thu 01-Aug-13 13:03:10

Hefeweizen
I have a good friend in the TA. He goes on exercises with the regular army. He tells me it's common knowledge that there are many guys who hang around that site who pretend to be soldiers but aren't. They like to big themselves up, go around in camo shirts and boast on-line about going to Afghanistan etc. Most of them are NF types and racists.
He says the real soldiers despise them and call them 'walts', short for Walter Mitty. He also says that there are racists in the army but no more than anywhere else. And he is black so I reckon he should know.

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 14:05:40

Sallyingforth - I concur that the site does attract some idiots, but on the whole, the NF skinhead thing is just plain incorrect.

If I tried to blag that I was a father in a newborn or a IVF thread, you'd see through me as quick as a flash. It's the same on that website, those who have served would see through a never-served in a heart-beat. (I'm a father of three BTW)

'Racists in the army', of course there is, it reflects a young active percentage of the population, but as you rightly say, no more than anywhere else.

Please can I just say, the majority of the remarks about the Comments section on the Daily Mail website were regards to it's blatant censorship. It's a shame that there's a few of the MN users on this thread just can't see that. Has it not occured to anyone that the red arrows are in direct response to the unduly bias moderation by Paul Dacre's newspaper? I'm sure that the EDL/BNP have better things to do than 'dislike' a newspaper article, so I don't think we have a massive racist outburst here by any means.

Mrs Lawrence's enoblement to the HoL stinks of political band-waggoning by the Labour party. Throughout the decades there's been campaigners in one such cause or other that have been seduced by the political parties for their own means, and most, I suspect have regretted it. If she accepts the Labout Peer, than I believe any good she has done (if any, I have no view) will be highjacked for shallow political ends.

The moment she takes the Ermine, she will lose her credibility as a campaigner. Is that what her supporters really want, or do they want a presence in the HoL that will toe the party line rather than seek community cohesion, justice and whatever else she's seeking?

I find the opposition to Doreen Lawrence taking a political Peerage being construed as being rascist offensive. Why is it racist that others should oppose a political party aligning itself with a campaigner for their own means? Aren't people allowed to have an opinion about someone without others classing it as racist? To call everyone a racist who voices an opinion against someone who is an ethnic minority is crass, oppressive and exactly the type of argument used by the intolerant to suppress free, educating and open debate.

As a last note, please remember that freedom of speech, percieved racist or otherwise, in which you enjoy, is exactly the thing that the majority of ARRSE members have signed up to defend.

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 14:45:42

Hefeweizen: Aww bless you, you find some things offensive. You find offence in having your little site called 'racist'. Good. You feel oppressed. How ironic. Your site is littered with racist references: tell the MNers what a 'Gibson's Dog' ((c) ARRSE) might be, or a 'Non-Swimmer', or how the real racism on your site is played down as if it's all a big joke; how some of your users have racist icons like golliwogs in their profiles, or how seemingly every prominent black figure - Nelson Mandela, Diane Abbott, Mrs Lawrence to name just a contemporary few - are put through the mill at every turn. 'Offenders' are frequently banned, only to resurface minutes later treating the whole thing as a joke, and this is accepted by the site leaders and made hay with by it's largely cowardly hoi polloi. Sir, your site is essentially racist, and its movers and shakers seem quite content with that state of affairs.

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 14:47:55

Hefeweizen I forgot to add, regarding your last sentence: should the world feel grateful? I don't think for one minute that freedom of speech is high on the agenda, TBH.

Sallyingforth Thu 01-Aug-13 14:59:33

It's the same on that website, those who have served would see through a never-served in a heart-beat.
Yes Hefeweizen they do and they are called Walts. If you google on the term it takes you straight to that site.
However you, like everyone here, are welcome to your opinion and I don't need or desire to change it to mine. Just don't suggest that I have made anything up, thank you very much.

mingegunge Thu 01-Aug-13 15:23:40

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Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 15:37:34

Opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one.

Website aside, I'm still intrigued why the majority on this thread feel that opposing DL's peerage is racist. I've mentioned on here that the post is a political one and as such, not one that everyone will agree with.

Sallyingforth says: "My only concern is that the honour might be degraded by the inevitable accusation that it was given by the party leader to attract votes. But then I suspect that many honours are indeed given to curry favour."

This is exactly what Honours are given for when no monetary favours are involved (I won't get onto political donations). Do you really believe that Ed Milliband and his party will not exploit Doreen and roll her out at every opportunity to bash someone or other on race issues? Do you think she'll be a figurehead in Labour anti-racist policy, Yep, you bet, although she may not agree with them all, or any.

stooshe sums it perfectly, better than I if truth be told, regarding the politicising of campaigners. If Doreen Lawrence really wants to make an impact, then she should refuse the Peerage and get others to lobby on her behalf to be ennobled as a Crossbencher, only then will she keep the credibility that she currently holds.

Bloody hell people, Look beyond the colour and see the Pawn in the political game she's about to become. I may be wrong, perhaps she has always harboured political yearnings and will feel comfortable as a Labour mouthpiece? If that's the case then she deserves all she gets!!

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 15:50:30

Website aside? Your are making assertions, for that is all they are, and even if you were to offer an argument, which you have not so far, it would be fatally undermined by your association with the website and its behaviours that you seek to defend.

Salmotrutta Thu 01-Aug-13 15:53:56

mingegunge - I think you have spittle on your chin.

Welcome mingegunge.

Op, you did say you were aware of run ins with the cretins from that website before. This is why some people felt it's kind of a good idea not to bother with links to them. .

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 16:03:57

And defend with my life sweet-cheeks!

Nah, not really, it's just somewhere I got to vent all my outlandish, chauvinistic and racist behaviour clearly

As I'm short on argumental offers, Could I offer you a drink or a cigarette instead?

Pagwatch Thu 01-Aug-13 16:10:27

Gah, where is the Op?

Where are those who feel the link was a great idea do that they could stand up for the vulnerable?

They have arrived. Could you sort them out as you asked them over?

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 16:10:53

That sounds nicer.

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 16:26:46

marcelladuffy - I can do nice.

So are we dating yet?

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 01-Aug-13 16:29:06

Ew. Flirting

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 16:35:37

Well if it prevents an invasion of trolls I suppose I could always lay back and think of Iowa.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 01-Aug-13 16:38:12

yy. marcella

hows about I flirt with you, honey-pie?

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 16:46:41

I'm not a troll, I'm a hard-working married man with 3 kids, a mortgage that resembles the GDP of a small African country and a curiously bad taste in clothes & friends and a filthy Cider habit

Sorry, is this not the 'Welcome' thread?

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 16:51:14

JamieandtheMagicTorch Are you batting for the opposition?

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 16:51:18

Hefeweizen OK, maybe more 'Representative' than 'Troll', perhaps? Hope for you yet?

Which country, by the way? I'm only asking.

Hefeweizen Thu 01-Aug-13 16:59:37

Burkina Faso

marcelladuffy Thu 01-Aug-13 17:01:48

Mmm? Don't know how much money that is. Enough to get me a BMW the one with no roof? P.S. Midnight Blue with white seats.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 01-Aug-13 17:02:22

I'm neither male nor female, gay nor straight. I am a hard-working parent of 7.

I am interested by your assumptions.

When you assume you make an ass of u and me both

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 01-Aug-13 17:03:22

pag

we will safe steer. Fear ye not, me heartie

Pagwatch Thu 01-Aug-13 17:04:47

PARD will overcome.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 01-Aug-13 17:05:59

Some day

Myluverrr Thu 01-Aug-13 17:31:22

I like Gin

ethelb Thu 01-Aug-13 17:51:42

At work Pag.

Hefe if you really are a dad of three and married perhaps you could reconsider using that forum.

The comment about Ms Lawrence being burried under concrete could potentially be construed as a threat but was in fact posted by a moderator. Hardly a particuarly reputable forum.

I would be ashamed if my partner or dad used it. Or dared to try and defend it.

Have you considered the impact that forum could have on the military as well?

Sparklymommy Thu 01-Aug-13 18:01:21

Ok, new to this thread but having read some, not all of the link I feel I have to post. hefe the majority of the posts a pith Mrs Lawrence are indefensible. Anyone with half a brain would surely be appalled by them. There ARE valid reasons why many will think that Mrs Lawrence becoming a peer is not a good idea; some of which have been discussed here, but race and/or sex are not them. How would you feel if your wife or daughter or mother were discussed the way Mrs Lawrence is being on that forum? It's disgusting and vile and tantamount to threats on her life.

MamaChubbyLegs Thu 01-Aug-13 18:06:43

"Concrete overcoat" shock

Fuh-king hell.

That thread really is shameful. Never heard of arrse before. Appropriate name hmm

mingegungemk2 Thu 01-Aug-13 18:17:52

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TheBiscuitBaron Thu 01-Aug-13 18:18:37

Peer or Pier? I can see the concrete overcoat option being popular amongst a few?

This is the comment.

I think he is merely suggesting that a minority will find the decision highly unpopular.

mingegungemk2 Thu 01-Aug-13 18:21:37

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mingegungemk2 Thu 01-Aug-13 18:25:17

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Pagwatch Thu 01-Aug-13 18:27:06

<tumbleweed>>>>

mingegungemk2 Thu 01-Aug-13 18:37:18

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mingegungemk2 Thu 01-Aug-13 18:37:34

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Salmotrutta Thu 01-Aug-13 18:46:06

I've reported.

ethelb Thu 01-Aug-13 19:04:09

@biscuit I don't think me saying that I would like to see you buried under concrete would go down very well on this forum. It would not be construed as 'just a comment'. I wouldn't be surprised if I was banned. But a moderator made that comment on the forum you are defending.

It could potentially be construed as a threat and if I was found to be making comments like that on a public forum about a public figure and my work found out I wouldn't count on keeping my job either.

Don't debase yourself by pretending that is merely suggesting some may not like Doreen Lawrence to be a peer. It is disgusting.

TheBiscuitBaron Thu 01-Aug-13 20:48:44

It is not a threat neither is it the opinion of the poster. He is musing, speculating, pondering how some elements of society will feel.

I am defending only the integrity of the written word.

Perhaps an established poster might care to help me out here??

ArtEFischlerReisson Thu 01-Aug-13 21:04:56

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singledadupahmed Thu 01-Aug-13 21:19:00

I don't understand. Black lady going to be knighted but soldiers don't like so mumsnet don't like soldiers? Can someone explain? Are soldiers racist because lady is black or because she didn't fight a war?

Why is racist?

ArtEFischlerReisson Thu 01-Aug-13 21:29:38

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JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 01-Aug-13 21:33:51

SI

LaGuardia Thu 01-Aug-13 21:36:34

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Pagwatch Thu 01-Aug-13 21:45:46

See. Massive wankerfest.

ArtEFischlerReisson Thu 01-Aug-13 21:50:11

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ethelb Thu 01-Aug-13 21:55:31

@art It crops better like that if you need to put in a square or landscape image (most newspaper/magazine layout would require these shapes more frequently). Plus, it isn't always cropped 'by the media'. I have seen the 'hand gesture' which is just a fist.

Any more conspiracy theories?

Doreen Lawrence hasn't been made a peer for 'being a murder victim's parent'. She has been made one for constantly challenging the system, sutting up a sucessful foundation and, yes, arguably being a good rent a quote. That's more than most politicians, elected or not.

Biffensbridge69 Thu 01-Aug-13 23:04:26

Most of the posts here have the odour of Iceland frozen turkey burgers , oven chips & Lambrini about them.

Hefeweizen Fri 02-Aug-13 08:22:18

ethelb - "Hefe if you really are a dad of three and married perhaps you could reconsider using that forum"

And what forum would that be prey tell?

Everywhere I read on this website I see the tag line 'By Parents for Parents'. I am a parent, ergo, this site is for me.

Are you suggesting some type of censorship against me or that I'm not welcome on this site because I'm male?

flagrantviolator Mon 05-Aug-13 15:24:45

Actually, I have a friend in the Coldstream Guards who is a member of that forum. According to him, the members MERCILESSY pursue and abuse the very same impostor-types you speak of. They even have a special forum dedicated to exposing and hunting these impostors down. He also mentioned that the site does a huge amount of charity work for good causes.

Pagwatch Mon 05-Aug-13 15:28:46

I would assume that if Ethelb meant mumsnet she would have said 'this forum.'
Saying 'that forum' suggests whatever the name of the army one is.

Isn't that obvious?

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