To refuse to visit PIL until they train their dog?

(50 Posts)
KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 14:32:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

3littlefrogs Sun 28-Jul-13 14:36:01

Do not visit their house.

Do not allow them to visit you with their dog.

Their was a thread on here a while ago about a child and mum who were attacked and injured by a dog belonging to the paternal GP.

Untrained, unsocialised dogs revert to wild behaviour. Do not put your child at risk.

They are clearly completely blind to reality and therefore completely unreliable in terms of keeping their dog under control.

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 14:40:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zatyaballerina Sun 28-Jul-13 14:40:15

yanbu, your pil are idiots, that poor dog could end up being put down if he bit a child in public causing serious damage and all because they're bad dog owners. Tbh I'd call the rspca. Not training a dog properly is animal cruelty, not to mention a danger to others. Explain that to them and tell them that your daughters safety is more important than indulging their arrogance. They can visit you without the dog until he is properly trained. If they can't be arsed, stay away.

PuppyMonkey Sun 28-Jul-13 14:43:36

Don't visit them. No brainer.

Ezio Sun 28-Jul-13 14:47:20

Zatya is right, if the dog attacks and injures then it will be put down, they'll be no other option.

zipzap Sun 28-Jul-13 14:47:40

I would start out resolute but not combative to start with. So if the come to visit you make them put the dog outside (easier in the summer to start with as well) or if they ask you to theirs then ask if they'll put the dog out. If they won't just say that no worries, you'll come another day. And repeat.

At some point they will realise that that are not seeing you so you will have to make it explicit that they have to choose between seeing their dgc and the dog being trained and/or locked out. Or dog stays in, they don't see dgc.

If I'd been the parent of the girl bitten on the shoe by the dog I would be furious - would have taken name and address of owner and reported to the police (or dog warden or council or who do you report dogs to these days?). Bit late this time but if something like that happens again, slip the person a note with the pil's details and get them to report it. If they get a visit from the local police worried about dog safety they might take it more seriously...

Beastofburden Sun 28-Jul-13 14:49:14

Agree, your house only, and without the dog. End of. Let them have their big row/tantrum, it will make them realise that their DGC is more important than their dog.

HeySoulSister Sun 28-Jul-13 14:49:25

Who trained your own dog? Maybe offer them the same?

NulliusInBlurba Sun 28-Jul-13 15:02:43

kingRollo, you're in Germany, aren't you? Are your PIL Germans? With older Germans it's always a good option to go down the route of legal obligation (ie 'I don't want to have to take this radical step of reporting you, but I'm legally obliged to as a law-abiding citizen'). So you could say you've been advised by the Jugendamt that allowing your DD to come into contact with a dog that might bite would be a 'Verletzung der Fürsorgepflicht'.

Do your PIL have Haftpflichtversicherung for their dog? Warn them that if their dog causes any damage to your DD (or you) requiring medical treatment you will be obliged to disclose how the injuries came about and they will then by chased for the money by your Krankenkasse.

The obvious short-term solution is that the dog wears a Maulkorb whenever it's in public or anywhere near your family (obviously the better solution would be to get the poor mutt properly trained - I have zero patience with owners who don't recognise the importance of training for dogs).

"If they get a visit from the local police worried about dog safety they might take it more seriously." - one of the problems with dogs here in Germany is that it tends to be regarded as a civil matter, or a misdemeanor at best. The fine for leaving dog shit lying around is paltry, just a few euros, and (minor) dog attacks tend to be dealt with at the civil level of awarding compensation to the victim rather than a criminal prosecution - hence the importance of insurance against the risk of being sued.

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 15:03:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Montybojangles Sun 28-Jul-13 15:07:47

If it were a Rottweiler would they have the same attitude to it's aggression?

Just because it's a smaller, cuter dog doesn't mean it's any less in need of training.

Get a dog crate for them, if they come to yours or you to theirs, they need to put the dog in it. Or they train it.

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 15:10:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beastofburden Sun 28-Jul-13 15:14:47

Get another babysitter. They need to realise that the dog will get in the way of their relationship with their gc.

Sounds as if PIL dominates both is wife and his son, you may have to persevere a bit here.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 28-Jul-13 15:15:25

Yanbu.

I have a dog which sounds very much like your pPIL dog.

I am training mine but its not working much! However if we're out where there's people about then he's muzzled. If people come to our house then he's muzzled and on his lead. We have tried crating him but he's not keen on the crate.

Dackyduddles Sun 28-Jul-13 15:17:38

Quite simply most dog attacks are by known animals in family situations. Google dog attacks and you will see what I mean. It's not worth becoming front page news is it?

Yanbu. Don't do it.

Quaffle Sun 28-Jul-13 15:26:25

YANBU at all.

YABU to allow your DD to "touch and stroke your dog not very gently". The fact the dog is tolerant is absolutely no excuse. One day the dog won't tolerate it and you'll only have yourselves to blame.

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 15:30:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoominsYonisAreScary Sun 28-Jul-13 15:41:34

Ds2 was bitten by a dog in a local beer garden, his am was carrying him past and it ran out from under the table and bit his leg.

I told it's owner he should take it home and not have it out in noisy public places, it was obviously anxious and stressed by all the noise

Don't go round and don't let it in your house

Solopower1 Sun 28-Jul-13 15:51:43

YNBU at all! I wouldn't leave PILs, plus dog plus baby, alone together.

I've also noticed that so many of these dog attacks do tend to happen in grandparents' houses. I sometimes wonder if it's about more than the dog. Maybe something to do with accepting you as parents in your own right and not just their children any more?

As a (fairly new) gp myself, I have caught myself thinking along the lines of 'I know best' but I always stamp on it. I don't know best when it comes to someone else's children!

I have also realised that my famous 'instincts', which saved my own kids from so many accidents, major and minor, do not work automatically with my grand children - not until I have spent several days with them, at least. Also, I am simply not as able to move fast enough to whip a toddler out of danger as I used to be.

So YANBU for all those reasons. But I would not refuse to see your child's gps, just make sure you are inches behind DD at all times. Not very restful for you, but totally unavoidable, imo, if you decide to go the route of non-confrontation.

I wish, as I always do in these cases, that the adult whose parents these are would confront the issue.

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 16:02:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Solopower1 Sun 28-Jul-13 16:12:16

Hope it all goes well for you, and that you continue to get on well with your PILs. smile

Dorris83 Sun 28-Jul-13 16:37:17

YANBU this must be a very frustrating situation as it doesn't sound like your DH or PILs are taking your concerns seriously.

I think the pp who said that you need to be hard line and factual with them are correct.

There is no being polite or conciliatory when it concerns the safety of your baby so you will have to stop going over until they will control the dog.

Honestly I don't think any amount of dog training will mean that you will feel more comfortable about having your DD there. PILs need to create a solution where the dog is shut away or in a crate when DD is visiting, or you can't visit... Simple as that.

Sorry kingrollo it's not a good situation.

MikeOxard Sun 28-Jul-13 17:20:03

You're mad to consider leaving your baby with them. Don't visit them and don't allow the dog to visit you. If it causes a big fight, that's a fight worth having - clearly your baby is at risk.

Whothefuckfarted Sun 28-Jul-13 17:30:38
formicadinosaur Sun 28-Jul-13 17:35:37

Give them the problem and give them the opportunity to resolve things. Don't take any risks.

MissStrawberry Sun 28-Jul-13 17:46:03

What do you think will happen should the dog attack your baby? Worrying about your PIL if you used the "nuclear reaction" preferable to an injury or fatality surely?

pianodoodle Sun 28-Jul-13 17:50:42

Agree with not taking risks - YANBU

If something happened you'd never forgive them but also you'd never forgive yourself either sad

Go with your instincts definitely. Keep them apart or have them visit you etc...

If they make a fuss about it tough. Be prepared to be thought of as a pain or over protective or whatever else but don't give it a second thought you're doing the right thing.

My dad had ill trained dogs that are supposedly good "guard dogs" for his business. They are not. They would bite indiscriminately and could not be called off. I personally like the dogs but since having DD I phone ahead to make sure they're in the compound not in the house.

She will never meet them I just wouldn't chance it. They are rottweillers but I'd apply the same caution with any dog known for biting and known for having a careless owner who thinks it's no big deal. To me it means they won't exercise due caution as they are so fond of the animal they get blind to the facts.

We have a very gentle dachshund who loves our 2 year old but even then I watch to make sure DD doesn't try her patience.

LookMaw Sun 28-Jul-13 17:52:59

YANBU. And I say that as a dog lover/owner who regularly rolls her eyes at the dog hatred on MN.

PIL's JRT went for DD when she was a week old. They tried to play it down as 'she just wanted a sniff' but no dog sniffs through its teeth whilst violently shaking and growling. MIL supposedly is a qualified dog psychologist as well!

Stay well away. If they won't babysit without bringing the dog then accept you'll have to make alternative arrangements.

LEMisdisappointed Sun 28-Jul-13 17:58:19

What Quaffle says - are you expecting your ILs dog to tolerate he same treatment? Maybe you should teach your child how to behave around dogs because not every dog that she meets will be as tolerant as yours or if yours is feeling under the weather, she may react badly to "not to gentle" handling.

LEMisdisappointed Sun 28-Jul-13 18:00:30

Just insist that the PILs put the dog in the garden when you visit, or in another room - then the only problem you have is your own dog

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 18:01:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LEMisdisappointed Sun 28-Jul-13 18:09:17

You should do what some people did when i was working at the vets - their labradors used to bark at the GC when they visited so they had them PTS hmm Two lovely healthy dogs put to sleep for no reason other than not appreciating noisy children in their previously quiet home sad heartbreaking

Just insist the dog is in another room - its not rocket science

Twattybollocks Sun 28-Jul-13 18:16:39

Yanbu. For the record, I allow my 6 mo dd to pet our family dog. She isn't very gentle so I hold her arm and stop her if she tries to grab. If she's never allowed to touch the dog, how will she ever learn to be gentle and respectful? Thankfully my dog is also v tolerant and loves the baby (always trying to lick and fuss, I think she thinks she's a bald puppy)

Dackyduddles Sun 28-Jul-13 18:35:22

I have trouble with two cats! It's not just dogs!!! Just cats don't often actually manage to eat kids. The thing is its all fine til it happens. But do you want to forever explain THAT scar to your dc?

One thing for a strange mutt, a known dog is different. It's setting every example for all their lives. Make them good ones is all I mean be that horse, mouse, chinchilla or dog.

Lastofthepodpeople Sun 28-Jul-13 18:41:42

YANBU at all! Small dogs can be aggressive with younger children especially if not trained properly.
Your PIL would be very unreasonable not to lock the dog away when you are visiting especially if it has had a history of biting children.

Unfortunately, even if your DH doesn't want to have a big argument with his parents, a small dog can do a lot of damage to a baby in a short period of time and I can't see that you have any other option if they refuse to keep the dog away.

formicadinosaur Sun 28-Jul-13 18:43:03

I think it's great that you are setting boundaries

DreamingOfTheMaldives Sun 28-Jul-13 18:53:08

Your PIL don't even need to put the dog outside when you visit or in a crate, they could get a playpen which opens up and can then be used to keep a separate area for dog so that it can have it's bed and plenty of space without coming into contact with your DD. Keeps your DD safe but gives the dog its own space too.

This would be a good solution for an open plan space where baby gates wouldn't work

saintmerryweather Sun 28-Jul-13 19:05:51

tibetan terriers are stubborn, difficult to train, want to please themselves. we have two of them and i wouldnt trust either of them with a baby. it would take a lot of training and consistency (more so than a bog standard naturally obedient dog) to get ithem to the stage i would trust it.

dont let it round if you are not there to supervise

saintmerryweather Sun 28-Jul-13 19:08:06

oh and TTs are not particuarly small dogs, one of ours is about the size of a springer spaniel

KingRollo Sun 28-Jul-13 19:08:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Back2Two Sun 28-Jul-13 19:09:16

Yanbu

Actually KingRollo your second sentence is very astute FIL treats it like the first GC

I'm not a dog lover by any stretch - and I know loads of dog owners let their canines sit on sofas, beds, lick plates <<shudder>>

I believe dogs are dogs and should be appreciated and respected as such.They shouldn't be shut out in their own home though. Say 'hello' to visitors in their territory then take themselves off to their quiet area where your DD does NOT approach him.He needs to feel safe too.

They have elevated their dog to the status of GC. But the dog doesn't understand the human qualities that they have applied to it.

You cannot trust this dog.
Don't put your child at risk. End of.

essextolondon Sun 28-Jul-13 22:06:49

I have the same problem with my MIL's dog. It isn't trained, but she thinks it's perfect so much she refuses to accept it does. She won't even come to visit our DD because she'd have to leave it for a couple of hours instead of cooing over it (Our DD is second in pecking order)

My OH told her that the dog stays outside or indoors on a lead and my SIL has been training it. She adhered eventually after trying to hold a staffy still on a lead all afternoon.

Last week we were charged and growled at by a dog, off lead in a park - DD is two and it was completely unprovoked. If you don't trust a dog don't risk it.

Beastofburden Sun 28-Jul-13 23:10:53

Be very careful visiting your PIL. It is the dogs territory and he may well defend it. Better they come to you and leave the dog at home, for a while.

KingRollo Mon 29-Jul-13 05:31:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Partridge Mon 29-Jul-13 08:00:55

I'm glad it's heading in a better direction. I am in a similar situation - my aunt (lovely, great with my kids, helps a lot, obsessed with dogs and totally anthropomorphises them) has a lurcher who bit my dad badly, totally unprovoked. She was mortified and started muzzling her when she was around the kids.

This has now completely lapsed and it is like she doesn't remember this incident. I have no idea how to address it but just see her less, particularly at her house hmm. Youngest ds is nearly 2 and obsessed with dogs. Bad combination.

KingRollo Mon 29-Jul-13 08:03:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MTBMummy Mon 29-Jul-13 08:33:21

Good Luck Rollo - I've had similar issues with PiL's dogs, and it came to a head at Christmas when their dogs snapped and bit me on the face, and punctured my eye lid.

I managed to convince DP that one holiday 3 months later - there was to be no contact with the dogs, but they have since been allowed back into our house on their last visit. Granted PIL's kept the offending dog on a lead the entire time it was in our house, but we're due to visit them in a months time and I am terrified, the dog has had a little training but not enough in my mind, to make me feel safe about the visit.

Solopower1 Mon 29-Jul-13 18:40:36

MTBMummy - I really sympathise. The first time I met my prospective PILs I was introduced to Sheba, a German Shepherd, with the words 'She's highly neurotic, hates people - but she'll be alright as long as you keep out of her way, and don't ever look her in the eyes.' Note she'll be alright. I was a jellylike mess.

Think you need to start another thread on this one!

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