to think that pub garden after 8.30 should be adults only?

(87 Posts)
lessonsintightropes Thu 25-Jul-13 01:11:39

Prepared for a flaming here and am really not sure what the right answer is, so would be keen to know what others think.

There's a naice pub about 10 mins walk from us. It is v kid friendly which is lovely. There's a nice garden at the back which includes a little playground for the kids. I was in there with DH this evening having dinner. At about 8.30 we'd finished eating - we were sat at the table nearest the adventure playground. There were a lot of kids when we arrived at 7 but had pretty much gone by 8.30, but there were a few - five, say? - all between 3 and 6. They were fairly unsupervised - parents and friends sat drinking about 20 yards away at the other side of the garden, kids were running around, scooting on scooters, and bumping into tables where other people were eating.

I wanted to have a cigarette after dinner and looked around, saw the kids were a little way from us, and lit up, blowing it away from where the kids were playing. One mum lurched over to our table (she really was a bit pissed) and told me off for smoking near her kids. Several people at the table she was sitting at were smoking.

AIBU to think that a) she shouldn't have been that drunk in charge of DCs, b) that they should have been better supervised anyway and c) shouldn't they have been in bed at that point?

I totally get that it's a kid-friendly pub - especially during the day throughout the week - but AIBU to have a fag after dinner in an open garden?

(Hoisting up judgy pants. No DCs myself yet so really don't know if IWBU).

NoComet Thu 25-Jul-13 01:23:44

Sorry, some of us don't have babysitters and will have our DDs in tow if we dare to socialise with friends or family, by the time food has arrived and been eaten it will be past 8.30 and DDs will be running about in the garden while adults have a final drink or cup of coffee.

Oh and give up the fags, I'm watching that habit kill my DDad by inches and you don't want to go there.

bellabelly Thu 25-Jul-13 01:30:25

YANBU. Since the smoking ban, parents with kids can have a smoke-free environment INSIDE the pub. I have 4 small children and, at any time of day, I would expect smokers to be smoking in the beer garden, given that they are not allowed to smoke indoors!

HarrietSchulenberg Thu 25-Jul-13 01:31:11

YABU re kids in beer garden at 8.30 (it's summer hols ffs) BUT parents have to remember that it's a pub environment and not Jolly Jim's Jungle or whatever and not expect everyone else to be child-friendly at that time. And parents should be capable of looking after their children too.

bellabelly Thu 25-Jul-13 01:31:57

And, ideally, parents should be sober when in charge of their kids! But I'm old-fashioned like that. grin

mynameisslimshady Thu 25-Jul-13 01:32:35

You are right, its illegal to be drunk and have responsibility for a child. You were well within your rights to smoke where you did, she should have called the children away rather than tell you off. Does the pub not have rules about the time kids stay until, most child friendly pubs I know have?

bellabelly Thu 25-Jul-13 01:34:30

It's lovely when pubs cater to families, with play areas etc. But most people (reasonable people) would recognise that pubs are primarily for adults.

bellabelly Thu 25-Jul-13 01:35:22

What did you say to the drunken mum, out of nosiness interest?

softlysoftly Thu 25-Jul-13 01:35:41


Children don't have to be in bed by 7 especially when Fir once they can be out enjoying the late sunny evenings.

If however you had come on and asked if ywbu to think parents should stop kids annoying others diners by bumping tables, supervise their dcs, not all get pissed on duty and accept people in beer gardens will smoke then I would have said yanbu.

I now hate smoking and drinking around kids but that's why I choose to steer clear of pub's. My choice not all parents.

IneedAyoniNickname Thu 25-Jul-13 01:36:14

Well your title and your post ask different questions,

So the title, Aibu to think that pub garden after 8.30 should be adults only? yes you are. It's the summer holidays, its hot. I've taken the dc to the park this late as its cooler. (Not the pub as the one near us has no play area) However, on the rare occasion my step dad looks after the dc, he takes them to his local, family friendly pub. They love it, and I can't see the problem.

And your post, AIBU to think that a) she shouldn't have been that drunk in charge of DCs, hard to say without knowing how drunk she was, and if there was someone else in charge who was more sober. I'd have a couple of drinks and look after my dc, because I know my limits. b) that they should have been better supervised anyway possibly. Bumping into other people's tables is not on! and c) shouldn't they have been in bed at that point? like I said above, its the summer holidays (at least it is here) and tbh its been so hot my dc haven't been asleep much before 10pm.

Finally AIBU to have a fag after dinner in an open garden? I guess not, although I hate smoking myself.

IneedAyoniNickname Thu 25-Jul-13 01:38:35

Slimshady my db used to own a pub, children weren't allowed in the bar after 10pm (or was it 9?) Nothing to say they weren't allowed outside though.

lessonsintightropes Thu 25-Jul-13 01:42:41

Fair enough chaps - thanks, I think I phrased it badly. I'm not really suggesting that kids should not be in the pub at that time, just that the parents should have control of them and also expect that it's an adult environment.

I was quite shocked by pissed Mummy bellabelly but pointed out quite calmly that it was getting on in the evening, we were out of doors and that I thought it was okay. She (I think) regretted approaching us and backed off.

I do think the pub really is at fault here - it's that old chestnut about people having different expectations of the space. The pub itself was hosting the pub quiz but was fairly quiet so there would have been room (and would be cool enough) for them to have moved inside earlier in the evening. The pub however doesn't state that children should have left by such and such a time, but also doesn't state that it's ok to smoke in the garden (although does provide ashtrays - including on the only vacant table when we arrived which is right next to the playgarden!) Setting people up to be pissed off I think?

To reword my AIBU - AIBU expecting to not be harassed for having a (legal) fag in a pub garden at 8.30 in the evening?

WafflyVersatile Thu 25-Jul-13 01:42:50

YABU about kids being there.

The woman was a twat, a twat with double standards at that.

Monty27 Thu 25-Jul-13 01:43:49

Isn't it supposed to be 'well behaved and supervised children' in beer gardens?

YANBU to smoke, particularly as the dm's df's were smoking nearby too.

MidniteScribbler Thu 25-Jul-13 02:01:09

I wouldn't smoke next to a playground with children using it, regardless of whether it were in a pub or not.

lessonsintightropes Thu 25-Jul-13 02:16:00

Sorry Midnitescribbler that is almost exactly my point. I think, given it's legal (and the Mum in question was sat with smokers) that I should be allowed to smoke, given that it is still legal? I tbh think the pub is being unreasonable given the fact they haven't made the rules clear.

Totally happy to accept IABU about kids in pubs at later hours than I'm used to, that's one of the reasons I asked. My DPs were very clear about bedtimes regardless of time of year (spent many a bored evening writing stories in my bedroom) and both my sisters enforce pretty strict bedtimes so they can spend adult time with their DHs, but realise this is unusual/different and wanted to know if it isn't typical - definitely have my answer there, thanks to all.

Answers seem pretty mixed though on whether it was alright for her to challenge me. It is a large, open garden, without clear rules.

Monty27 Thu 25-Jul-13 02:24:00

It's not just a public place, it's a beer garden, in a pub, where adults can smoke and drink alcohol if they wish. It is not a playyground and it is a free country. dam the nanny state. So free in fact, that parents can take their dc's home or for a picnic in the country if they want to be out drinking with their friends where the dc's can play but not near smokers in beer gardens. (which actually these dc's were, as the dm was sitting at a table with smokers}


MidniteScribbler Thu 25-Jul-13 02:34:27

Yes, you may be entitled to smoke, but I still wouldn't light up near children. Where I live it is against the law to smoke within ten metres of a children's playground.

WafflyVersatile Thu 25-Jul-13 02:38:29

This isn't where you live.

It's reasonable to be allowed to smoke in a smoking area at a time when the proprietors say no children should still be there.

It's also reasonable to smoke if the children's own adult companions are smoking.

lessonsintightropes Thu 25-Jul-13 02:39:35

Where do you live Midnitescribbler? This is a UK based question and understand the rules are different elsewhere. Also this is not a publicly accessible playground, but a little area of a pub garden (where adults are expected to consume alcohol and food) primarily aimed at adults if that helps.

MidniteScribbler Thu 25-Jul-13 02:44:06

I didn't say anything about whether the woman was rude, or whether children should be in a pub after 8.30. Nor did I even say that you were rude for smoking there. I said that I wouldn't smoke a cigarette near a children's playground. This is still a forum for discussion isn't it? That includes people who may have a differing opinion to yours.

I really wish people would just say that they only want people who agree with them to respond. It's really rather boring when people ask if they are unreasonable then get upset when they get the response they are looking for.

Monty27 Thu 25-Jul-13 02:49:36

I don't agree with you Midnite, in this country a pub is a pub, some have beer gardens where adults can smoke if they wish (some have beer gardens that do not allow smoking).

This beer garden allow smoking and has a play area for kids.


lessonsintightropes Thu 25-Jul-13 02:49:41

Fair enough leaves to skulk just wanted to actually have a debate about why you'd posted what you had, hence the questions, rather than a closing-off "this is what I would do, you are being unreasonable." Perhaps I have misunderstood the purpose of a discussion, apologies.

MidniteScribbler Thu 25-Jul-13 02:57:15

I posted what I had because it was my opinion. I don't like smoking around children, it's as simple as that. I think the pub is silly to have a children's playground right next to a smoking section. You were perfectly within your rights to smoke there, I'm not debating that point. Doesn't mean I have to think it's a fantastic thing to have happen and it would be nice if management could look at the layout and see if there is a way to move either the playground or provide a buffer zone around it, which would be the sensible approach.

Monty27 Thu 25-Jul-13 03:02:58

Fair enough MS but the OP did say she was aware dc's were around and gave consideration to that.

Very few people would be happy about smoking around dc's these days, now we know what we know. And it was outdoors in a pub garden where smokers are permitted to smoke.

As OP says, the dc's could have been taken inside to the non smoking zone.

WaitMonkey Thu 25-Jul-13 08:03:50

YANBU. It's a pub, if parents want to take their children out at that time of the evening, then that's fine, but go to the park. Child friendly pubs, great for day time, but it should be remembered that they are an adult environment and people will be drinking and smoking.
And she certainly shouldn't be in that state, if she has children to care for.
As an aside though, and not what you'd asked, I'd ban all smoking in a public place

bedhaven Thu 25-Jul-13 08:21:30

YADNBU! Whilst its brilliant that so many pubs are family friendly have realised the value of the parental pound it's really blurred what the environment is.
In a pub I expect principally adults (especially those without children), alcohol and varying degrees of inebriation, nuts, smoking, full glasses, hot food, adult conversation, high heels.
In a child friendly pub, I also expect lots of push chairs, that the children are learning with parental guidance how to behave in an adult environment but who still need some practice! We should all be considerate of each other, not expect everyone to pander to us.

whois Thu 25-Jul-13 08:28:07

YABU about the children being in the pub garden.
There was a pub near us when I was growing up on the edge of loads of playing fields and had a huge playground. Pretty standard in the long summer evenings to bike there, have some food then is play in the playground or play football with other children or something until 8.30is before biking home while mum and dad chatted to friends and had a drink. Lovely memories.

As much as I hate smoking, you were totally reasonable to smoke where you did.

Onesleeptillwembley Thu 25-Jul-13 08:35:09

YABU. I'd rather have the kids than smokers. Whole different level of offensive.

ComposHat Thu 25-Jul-13 08:41:37

I spent most of my summer holidays sat in beer gardens with a bottle of vimto and a packet of crisps whilst my parents and grandparents drank inside. (back in the halcyon days when kids weren't allowed inside pubs)

I think YABU about them being there but YANBU about the ciggy or the mum being an ignorant drunken twat.

Groovee Thu 25-Jul-13 08:49:34

Our bowling club allows under 14's in until 9pm as that is what the licence is, so likely the same is there for pubs. We often go til 9pm at the bowling club but as long as you don't smoke near me, I don't mind what you do. I'm also tea total and dh only has 1 or 2 pints.

AnnabelleLee Thu 25-Jul-13 08:54:09

I wouldn't smoke in a playground, thats a space for children that admits adults to mind them.
In a beer garden though, thats a space for adults who can bring children along if they wish. It's more my place than theirs, and they can stay well away from my table.

FeckOffCup Thu 25-Jul-13 09:04:29

YANBU, if you choose to take your children to a pub later on in the evening you have to accept that people may be smoking, appearing drunk or having adult conversation in said pub premises. YANBU to take kids to the beer garden but YWBU to complain about any of the above behaviours around the children, it's your choice to take them to a pub.

HairyGrotter Thu 25-Jul-13 09:19:49

Hmmm, I'm not the biggest fan of children, but I do take DD to beer gardens of a nice summers evening. I'll have a few pints (I smoke too) whilst she has a run around and play with other kids. She's 5 and very friendly but also aware that not everyone will want to interact.

I'm not really worried about her seeing me have a drink, mainly because it's not wrong to enjoy a drink sensibly. I also don't mind if someone is inebriated in front of her because I'm there to watch over her etc.

You are more than entitled to smoke in the beer garden, the mother was being a bit of a bellend really, so YANBU in that respect!

teacherandguideleader Thu 25-Jul-13 09:27:32

Children playing in a beer garden wouldn't bother me, I actually quite enjoy listening to children playing -as long as they are not running riot (I have no children myself). I might be a bit judgey if children were in a beer garden past 8pm term time, mainly because I often deal with the over tired children the next day, but it is he holidays!

With the regards to the smoking, as much as it annoys me that the gardens are smokey I just accept that it's a pub and that's where people smoke. If the parents were so worried about that, they should have taken the children elsewhere.

Pigsmummy Thu 25-Jul-13 09:33:15

Why is everyone spelling nice "naice" these days? Has it changed and did I miss the memo?

YABU about children out, its the school holidays but can't comment on the smoking as I didn't see your proximity to the children. As for the pissed Mum before you judge do you know if her partner was there? Maybe it was her turn to have a drink and her (sober) partner was going to put children to bed etc?

Jenny70 Thu 25-Jul-13 09:34:07

Australia has laws about smoking near children's playgrounds (but on private land may be different), stops cigarette butts in pg and teenagers hanging around there etc.

OP, YABU to expect others to take children home for your convenience - rules need to be able to be enforced - what about babies, are they to be banned after 8.30 even if they are asleep in buggy? What about 12yr olds? Who deciides which age, which time - oh parents, why don't we let them decide for their own children?

YABU to smoke near pg, there must be other places - at front of pub etc.

YANBU to expect the pub to have a better clue about separating users, smoking and children in same space isn't compatible, if they want families, then create a sep smoking area.

CuChullain Thu 25-Jul-13 09:38:06

I am about as anti smoking as it gets but the OP was legally well within her rights to light up a ciggie in the garden of the pub. I am still of the school of thought that pubs are essentially first and foremost adult environments that let children in at certain times, namely daytimes and early evenings. Just because your children are in a pub garden, their rights do not trump all others and you cannot expect some kind of santised outdoor space free from smoke/bad language or whatever when you are essentially in an adult space irrespective of whether there is a climbing frame and slide present. Most pubs, even the children friendly ones, tend to have a policy that after a certain time kids need to be kept under control on indeed, even leave. I have seen increasingly parents dumping their kids in beer gardens and leaving them to it while they get pissed with their pals, more often than not, they do not keep their kids under control so everyone else who wants to enjoy a few sundowners has to put up with the resulting mayhem. Its bloody inconsiderate.

Incidentally I was in my local pub last night and ended up having a word with a group of parents who had decided to finish their children’s end of term party in the rather busy beer pub garden. This was about 9.30pm, I strongly suspect that they were probably on their way home when the parents thought they could get away with a cheeky last drink. No problem with that except that they still had in tow about a dozen or so 11 – 12 year old girls, who clearly still giddy from the days entertainment ran riot and made enough noise to suggest that Justin Beiber had just popped in to say hi. The girls were basically bought a round of crisps and coke and left to their own devices which essentially involved making high pitch squeals and doing dance routines on the table, and generally being fucking irritating. This was not just my view, other patrons ended up finishing their drinks and leaving or moved to tables further away, the parents could not give a toss until I asked them to keep the kids under control, at which I got the astonished ‘they are not that noisy’, at which point I suggested they were extremely noisy…..and annoying. Of course this sparked the ‘they have just as much right to be there as everyone else which I thought at that time of night is bollocks statement. They left soon after when I think they realized just how much resentment they had caused.

See this is a hard one really. If I go to a pub for a drink during the day then I expect kids there. And I expect it to be loud busy lots of playing etc and I would feel that it's something I accept as part of my choice to eat at that time.

However if I Go out at 8:30/900 I do so to avoid children. Not because I don't like them I'm not that mean but because I would automatically assume at that time it would perhaps be older ones or the families would be heading home by then holidays or not.

I would t however sit near a playground then moan about the kids bring there and I certainly would t be smoking if there were kids present as that would just not feel right to me.

However if the mum was pissed then I'd be annoyed FOR the young kids thinking they'd probably want to be home at that time watching tv than causing chaos in a beer garden. It doesn't sound like a family meal out. If she's drunk she's probably had those poor kids there hours and yes that would probably annoy me.

But I'd do the moving.

Damnautocorrect Thu 25-Jul-13 09:41:44

Yabu about the time.

Yanbu about the child's behaviour they should have been respectful to others trying to enjoy if.

The smoking depends where you were positions etc.

ChunkyPickle Thu 25-Jul-13 09:49:55

YABU about the time, and the kids being there - especially in the hot weather in the summer holidays. Also about the squiffy mother - there could have been other people who were in charge of the kids.

YANBU about kids bumping into tables HOWEVER I class kids bumping into tables as others are eating as just as rude as people smoking while others are eating (the kids sound like they were far enough away that the smoke around the kids isn't an issue to my mind). That may just be me though, and I wouldn't say anything unless you were actually at my table (in which case I'd know you, and either be able to ask, or be expecting it and mutter to myself about it on the way home)

specialsubject Thu 25-Jul-13 10:00:00

the kids aren't allowed inside the pub. But it is a pub, not a playground. Much as I hate smoking, some people do it and a pub is one of the places where they do it.

with the indoor smoking ban (which I applaud) many pub gardens are now revolting no-go zones. That said, it is still a pub and still an adult place of entertainment. You sound like you have some wind awareness (unusual in a smoker) and you say that there were people smoking much nearer the kids than you were.

so you get a YANBU from me. Mum needs to swill less while she is in charge of the kids.

lessonsintightropes Thu 25-Jul-13 10:46:44

For future reference - for those who think I was unreasonable, what would you do differently? Go to a different pub?

RatUpADrainpipe Thu 25-Jul-13 10:47:21

Non-smokers wanted smoke-free places - now they've got them they should use them.

If you want to smoke where it is legal, then go ahead.

Crinkle77 Thu 25-Jul-13 11:56:54

YABU about the 8.30 time as it is the summer holidays and lovely weather outside. If smoking was allowed in that section then I think fair enough - you can smoke there. It is a pub. The mother should expect that people are going to smoke. She is more likely to do her children harm if she is drunk than what your cigarette smoke would do.

arabesque Thu 25-Jul-13 12:09:42

YANBU. If parents want to have their children in the pub at 8.30 they need to accept it's an adult environment and there will be people smoking.
Also regardless of location or time, parents should exercise some control over their children and make sure they're not unfairly annoying other customers. Family friendly does not mean 'kids come first'.

The mother was a twat who was drunk in charge of her children and then thought it was okay to lecture other people.

WilsonFrickett Thu 25-Jul-13 12:12:51

I do hate that all outside spaces in pubs are colonised by smokers. But that isn't the OP's fault or problem. You are entitled to smoke outside pubs, in fact I'd go as far as to say pubs encourage smokers to use their outdoor facilities to smoke because when the ban first came in they were petrified about losing smokers' money. So YANBU to smoke outside the pub, at all. Fair enough if you were deliberately blowing your smoke inside a newborn's pram hood I would say something, but you weren't.

And I hate smoke btw. Doesn't mean you were doing anything wrong.

Bowlersarm Thu 25-Jul-13 12:19:02


Before I had children I used to be a bit annoyed if some where at a pub being rowdy, and well, kids really.

Hypocritically, after I had children I used to love the fact that we could take them to the pub in the evening (unlike when I was little and the rare occasions my parents went to the pub, children weren't allowed in and I had a bottle of coke and a packet of crisps sitting in the car).

But I still think they are primarily adult places for adults, and if people take their DC there then they have to accept that it is not necessarily an environment directed towards children. I hope it continues like this as well.

YouTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 12:27:09

Pubs are for adults. The fact that kids are allowed in some is wonderful but it's still an adult environment where I'd expect kids to be appropriately supervised.

If there's a play area then maybe the pub should have a no smoking buffer zone around it and have smoking tables further away?

MrsMelons Thu 25-Jul-13 13:13:57

Dcs should definitely be supervised if in a pub which is primarily for adults who are drinking. My friend was barred from their local as they let their dcs play in the garden whilst they were sat inside drinking, she was really cross but I totally agree as I do not wish to look after other people's kids when I am out having a few drinks.

I don't really have any objections to dcs being in a pub garden if properly supervised and behaving appropriately for where they are

differentnameforthis Thu 25-Jul-13 13:16:31

and both my sisters enforce pretty strict bedtimes so they can spend adult time with their DH

I enforce pretty strict bedtimes too, normally. But at the times we go out as a family, those rules are relaxed because it isn't the norm, especially when it is hot (mind you, we have the problem of it being TOO hot to sit outside in the summer, even at night)

At the pub I used to work at, once food was done (usually around 9 as we stopped serving at 8.30) no children were allowed in the bar unless going to use the toilet, so YABU to have expected them to go inside. Also, tear children away from a playground to sit in a hot stuffy pub....really? Can you see how that just isn't logical! They would be hot & bored & if the parents are smoking outside, unsupervised.

I don't agree with them being troublesome for other patrons, not at all. Mum was a bit out of order.

I am guessing that you had the option to sit inside, and pop out for smokes, but decided to take the last table by the playground, so you should have expected some child related noise & not expect mum & dad to carry them off as soon as the clock strikes 7pm!

differentnameforthis Thu 25-Jul-13 13:20:28

And she certainly shouldn't be in that state, if she has children to care for And how do you know that she wasn't with their dad who was only drinking a couple? Or a friend who agreed to look after kids/only have a couple?

Judge judge judge!

FreudiansSlipper Thu 25-Jul-13 13:22:12

good idea

inside could be wh

FreudiansSlipper Thu 25-Jul-13 13:23:10

good idea

children could run riot inside while being watched by the staff while parents relax outside perfect solution

Jan49 Thu 25-Jul-13 13:28:09

I think the problem with the children was that they were behaving badly and not supervised, not the fact that they were there. It's not up to you to decide what time kids should go home or go to bed and 8.30pm wasn't late.

Legally you are entitled to smoke outside. Obviously you are risking your own health and those who are around you by smoking. Not just children. The woman was wrong for telling you off and weird since apparently people were smoking at her table. I think if you are going to smoke you should go on doing what you were doing. I don't think YWBU in those particular circumstances.

5Foot5 Thu 25-Jul-13 13:39:43

And how do you know that she wasn't with their dad who was only drinking a couple? Or a friend who agreed to look after kids/only have a couple?

Well if that was the case the dad or friend were doing a piss-poor job of supervision if they were sitting so far away and letting the children run riot and annoy other people.

I think in summer it is reasonable for the children to be there as late as 8.30 providing they are being properly supervised and not annoying other people. Actually, forget the time I think that should apply at any time of day.

And regardless of how much or how little she had drunk the mother was being ridiculous for taking her DC in to that environment and then expecting people not to be smoking.

I don't think it matters who else they were or were not with to be honest. I don't think children should ever see their parents plastered its not a good example to set. I realise that I'm probably in the minority and bloody boring according to you lot blush but I just couldn't allow myself to be in that state whilst around my children. Evev if their dad Was around snd sober. However as a pp said. 8.30 in a pub/beer garden ? If you stay thre that long with kids then you will have to deal with smoking outside, other drunk people even if parents are sober and bad language/inappropriate conversations.

However I couldn't bring myself to do that with kids around but that's probably just me rather than what should be expected.

MiaowTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 13:53:51

I don't think they were unreasonable being out in the pub garden. However, I think at that point in the evening you have to have some degree of acceptance that a pub has traditionally been an adult environment and that there will be behaviour adults tend to partake in - in terms of smoking (outside now obviously), drinking and occasionally saying rude words when your team are getting hammered at the football... and if you can't take all of that - then fuck off and go somewhere else please.

And with the smoking ban - people smoke outside pubs these days.

Cravey Thu 25-Jul-13 14:11:56

I run a bar and we aren't allowed kids in after seven they can however go in the garden if supervised. I think Yanbu but if adults are going out to smoke then it's the parents who should be moving the kids. Not your problem so to speak. We've had loads of kids in with mums and dads this week must be the warm weather.

ThePrinceofCambridge Thu 25-Jul-13 14:13:08

she should not have come over to tell you not to smoke, its she who has brought her dc's to a pub garden, it sounds like she was drunk and spoiling for a fight.

HOwever I have no probs with dc on very hot summer nights enjoying running round in a pub garden.

I have many memories of it myself, and did me no harm.

in hot summers children play and run round till hearts delight on the continent.

CorrStagnitto Thu 25-Jul-13 14:21:51

right now as i sit at my desk wheezing because my asthma is so bad, i would much rather have children running round bumping into my table in a pub garden than be sitting next to a smoker, horses for courses i guess

YouTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 14:23:36

Well don't sit next to a smoker then. confused

CorrStagnitto Thu 25-Jul-13 14:25:31

err the point is you cant choose you you meet in a pub garden, dont sit outside pubs in the summer at night if you dont like kids running round

Onesleeptillwembley Thu 25-Jul-13 14:29:30

youthe cat I'm guessing you don't work. As anyone with common sense would know, most people in offices don't have a choice where to sit. hmm

YouTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 14:30:36

Pubs aren't for kids. They are allowed as a courtesy (and to make money from their parents).

Asthma is bloody awful and I sympathise, but you do have the option of moving away or going inside. I'm quite sure you used to find smoky pubs really nasty before the ban, but you can't have it all ways.

YouTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 14:31:29

Um which office is it where you can smoke? Not in this country and yes, I do work.

How patronising! hmm

CorrStagnitto Thu 25-Jul-13 14:34:06

'pubs arent for kids' - only in your opinion , most are very family friendly these days and that is the reason they have gardens with play areas, i dont see many adults wanting to use the swings and slides at these places do you? wink

YouTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 14:41:18

My point is they are primarily for adults, as they are the paying customers. Allowing kids in is purely about making money. I suppose the demographic has changed. Pubs are no longer filled with chain smoking blokes, supping bitter and talking about football/pigeons etc.

Going to a family pub is a nice treat for kids but some people take the piss and kids get very bored after a while, even if there is a playground area.

Cravey Thu 25-Jul-13 14:42:05

I disagree with the pubs aren't for kids thing. We have a garden full of stuff for kids and IMO it allows a lot of parents who can't get care etc to have a meal or few drinks out with the kids.

Cravey Thu 25-Jul-13 14:42:43

Oh and believe me we don't make a huge amount of money from say a family of four.

CorrStagnitto Thu 25-Jul-13 14:43:21

the op is complaining about children running around enjoying themselves(offence to some? maybe) while she is being equally offensive to some others by smoking (granted its a public place and people can move away) but you can’t go around moaning about things that offend you while your doing something that is probably offending someone else at the same time, hypocritical? very much so imho

you cant control what people do in public spaces, if you don’t like it then don’t go to them

CorrStagnitto Thu 25-Jul-13 14:50:37

of course the times have changed, and for the better i say, why should pubs only be filled with chain smoking blokes, supping bitter and talking about football/pigeons? your attitude is rather dated

they are much nicer place to be these days with families enjoying themselves

and i think that smoking shelters should be implemented in these places (preferable at the other side of the car park away from outisde eating areas) for those that want to smoke, like they have in work places nowadays

YouTheCat Thu 25-Jul-13 14:53:20

I didn't say I preferred it! I used to work in pubs like that though, many years ago.

I don't tend to go to pubs with playareas tbh as my kids are adults now.

LtEveDallas Thu 25-Jul-13 15:08:04

Non smokers didn't want smokers inside, so the law changed and smokers now stay outside.

But now non smokers don't want the smokers outside either?

Well until the law changes again, and smoking is either completely banned, or banned in all public places, then it's up to the non-smokers to move themselves away from the 'only' place that smokers are allowed to be.

There are more places where non-smokers are welcome than there are smoking areas. Leave the smokers alone to enjoy what space they have left, or stop complaining. You have the choice, smokers don't.

maninawomansworld Thu 25-Jul-13 15:46:16

Sorry but if you sit near an adventure playground then what do you expect... no sympathy here.

There are loads of 'adult' pubs around that don't have adventure playgrounds and the like where you are less likely to get children if that's what you want.

Molinko Thu 25-Jul-13 15:55:28

OP I don't think YABU, not at all. A pub in the evening is for adults, I would never keep my kids in a pub after say 7pm out of respect for the other pub patrons, summer holidays or not. I don't really see what you smoking has got to with it honestly.

I love a family-friendly pub and am grateful when we find one, but we would only ever visit in the daytime. I also wouldn't inflict my kids on evening (after 7pm) diners at a restaurant. If you can't afford a babysitter for an evening out then maybe you should drink/eat in the comfort of your own home or garden.

Jan49 Thu 25-Jul-13 17:19:12

Leave the smokers alone to enjoy what space they have left, or stop complaining. You have the choice, smokers don't.

LtEveDallas, you honestly can't think of any other choice the smokers have? Like maybe NOT smoking?confused

LtEveDallas Thu 25-Jul-13 18:32:08

The 'choice' in my last post was regards to sitting inside or outside. Non-smokers can do either, so they have a choice. Smokers can only smoke outside, so they DON'T have a choice.

nkf Thu 25-Jul-13 18:36:25

Bumping into tables is not on though is it? Parents should keep a better eye on their children. Apart from that, it's okay.

merrymouse Thu 25-Jul-13 18:40:51

I hate smoking, but YANBU. I don't think it's wrong for children to be in a pub garden at this time, but its a bit silly not expect people to refrain from smoking because of their presence given that its 8.30, outside a pub.

On the other hand it sounds as though her logic was impaired by drink.

merrymouse Thu 25-Jul-13 18:42:09

Silly TO expect

pianodoodle Thu 25-Jul-13 19:08:59

YANBU you can smoke outside in the garden whether people like it or not.

YABU re: kids in the garden even though the badly behaved bit would annoy me too.

VerySmallSqueak Thu 25-Jul-13 19:14:55

We haven't got enough rules then?

If people want their kids running around in the pub garden till closing time it's up to them,not me.

If people want to have a fag in the fresh air it's up to them not me.

No one is breaking any laws here so live and let live,eh?

heronsfly Thu 25-Jul-13 19:18:46

Yadnbu, its a pub, not a playground !

ThePowerof3 Thu 25-Jul-13 19:47:24

If the mum was drunk then a law was actually being broken.

Boomba Thu 25-Jul-13 20:09:26

this is a nothing thread huh?

a woman asked you to stop smoking. you ignored her confused

VerySmallSqueak Thu 25-Jul-13 20:49:24

ThePowerof3 I didn't know we had ascertained for sure that she was in charge of the children.

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