Dogs on beaches. Why?

(307 Posts)
Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:23:08

Today i took my 3 young kids to the beach for a rare day out.
It was ruined by dogs!
They shit all over the place, one pissed up my icebox and one bloody stole my sons ball.
We moved twice and eventually gave up and went home

Why do people insist on taking dogs with them? Grrr annoyed!

KittensoftPuppydog Sat 20-Jul-13 17:24:09

Oh go away.

YANBU. Some places the dogs are banned in certain months or only allowed on specific bits of the beach. i don't want a big wet sandy dog in my picnic. sad

PseudoBadger Sat 20-Jul-13 17:25:46

People on the beach ruin my dog walk wink

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:26:04

Err, the beach is absolutely LittleDog's most favourite place, and we go nearly every day. hmm

RVPisnomore Sat 20-Jul-13 17:26:23

Because dogs get hot too and they enjoy the water. Not all owners are irresponsible and let them run loose.

It's just as easy to generalise and say people who go to the beach leave all their crap there but I don't because they're are Lso responsible people who pick up their rubbish......

DiseasesOfTheSheep Sat 20-Jul-13 17:26:49

Most beaches have dog free sections. Certainly all the ones commonly used by families do. Beaches are lovely places to walk and play with dogs, provided owners respect the (usually well enforced) restrictions.

I go to the beach with my dog because it's a place I can easily walk with him and my severely autistic son. And my son and dog love the sea. We also go there all year round - (although I do tend to avoid on sunny days when the tourists/day trippers are out unless the tide is far out making the beach very large).

I live near a lot of beaches. In the winter dogs are allowed on all beaches (and tbh 99% of the beach users are either dog walkers or surfers/kite surfers/windsurfers/surf kayakers). In the summer some beaches are dog free and some only allow dogs in certain areas - you should be able to find a dog free beach or area near you. If you check on local council or beach websites they will tell you which ones are dog free.

I do love September. smile

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:28:07

I really resent other people actually daring to walk on my beach. Particularly the annoying screamy ones, FFS LittleDog is all of 8 inches tall, and more terrified of you the great wuss

Eyesunderarock Sat 20-Jul-13 17:28:08

Most of the beaches round here have rules about dogs being on leads between April and September on the beaches.
Would you mind the dogs if they had left everyone and their picnics alone, and the owners had collected the dogshit?

overthemill Sat 20-Jul-13 17:28:19

because dogs love the water and running n open spaces. but they should be controlled but some people do seem t fail to do this. although do see other thread about how woosey today's children are with dogs...

Why - my dog loves the beach, especially swimming in the sea. I wouldn't dream on not keeping it under control though.
When my DCs were young I'd seek out dog free beaches. I've just been searching the net for info about beaches where we are going on holiday in the UK next month.
The beaches are divide into dog free, dog on a lead only or dog friendly. I will make sure I choose wisely.

Floralnomad Sat 20-Jul-13 17:28:35

I assume you were on a beach where dogs are allowed and in that case YABU because there are plenty of beaches where dogs are banned . If you were on a beach with a dog ban then you should have reported them .

Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:29:09

I have a 4 year old whippet, i know not to take him where it gets busy.
It's not fair on families and especially young children.

@kittens. If you don't like the thread, you go away.

MrsKeithRichards Sat 20-Jul-13 17:29:20

I'm not a dog hater at all. Even spent a wee minute acknowledging the scruffy westie that was about when we were unleashing for our picnic. But when, after 39 minutes and the little rat had spent more time sniffingabout us and our lunch whilst it's owner's were blissfully unaware, reading their books, I had enough.

A quick 'oi sort yer dug oot' solved the problem.

Dorris83 Sat 20-Jul-13 17:29:29

Hmmm dogs on beaches because beaches are brilliant, there's loads of room to run and they can go swimming. My lab LOVES the beach.

Saying that, the experience you had does sound grim. Unfortunately irresponsible dog owners spoil it for good dog owners by allowing bad behaviour and not picking up their dogs' mess.

Our local beach only allows dogs off lead before 10am and after 6pm. I think that works for everyone...

IAmNotAMindReader Sat 20-Jul-13 17:30:25

Why are people allowed on beaches they ruin the intertidal area for its natural inhabitants and are an eyesore. I don't want to see their pale or overcooked bodies ruining a perfect landscape. Not to mention the litter they leave behind its a disgrace.

Eyesunderarock Sat 20-Jul-13 17:30:32

I do hate the fact that all my favourite places seem to be covered with litter left by picnickers ATM, why don't you take all your rubbish home with you?

MrsKeithRichards Sat 20-Jul-13 17:31:15

No there isn't flora, not one beach or park (bar the little bit with a fence where the equipment is) in my county, or the adjoining one, is 'dog free'.

bigbuttons Sat 20-Jul-13 17:31:16

round here( Brighton) dog owners seem to to think their precious pooches can go on any part of the beach, restricted or not. Drives me nuts

CoteDAzur Sat 20-Jul-13 17:31:23

YANBU. Dogs are not allowed on the beaches where we live, even on a leash.

Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:31:24

We went to Talacre beach. It was jam packed and full of dogs.
Most were on leads and were no bother.

Some were just gits.

coffeeinbed Sat 20-Jul-13 17:32:11

Because most dogs come with an owner attached and owners quite like beaches too.

Or should they not be allowed too?

PhallicGiraffe Sat 20-Jul-13 17:32:53

Thankfully, a lot of beaches ban dogs in the summer. Yes, yes, you might be wonderful at looking after your darling little mutt, but there are always the inconsiderate arseholes than let their dogs piss and shit everywhere.

TimeofChange Sat 20-Jul-13 17:33:14

Most beaches have a No Dog area.

Many years ago I dog sat for a friend.
I'd never had a dog so was a bit naive about them.

We took him to the beach on a lovely sunny day, planning to go for a walk away from all the sun bathers and families on the dry sand.

I made the mistake of letting him off the lead when we got on the beach, instead of dragging him past everyone.

He cocked his leg up and peed all over a blouse that was hanging off a deck chair.

He then pooed on top of a sand castle.

I was mortified.
I had no idea that they could behave so badly!

I am now much more used to dogs and adore them.

I love my beach between September & June.

July and August it's practically out of bounds to us (especially ds1). Nothing to do with the dogs. We just go on rainy days. Talking of which there's rain and surf forecast for next week :happy dance:

If the dogs don't put their nose in my picnic, shake water off themselves near me or poo on the beach that would actually be ok TBF.

Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:34:44

One pooped right infront of where we were sat. The owner just kicked sand on it. I told him to pick it up and he just ignored me.

EndoplasmicReticulum Sat 20-Jul-13 17:35:25

Go find the dog free bit.

They are rarely actually free of dogs, because not all dogs can read the signs and neither apparently can some of the owners.

But there are certainly less dogs.

CockyFox Sat 20-Jul-13 17:35:31

YABU, as annoying as it is, if you have chosen to go to a dog friendly beach.

YANBU if, as we experienced last year, you are on a dog free beach and a dog owner informed you that they don't care what the sign says they walk their dog their everyday of the year as it is a free country and if it upsets my 'precious city children I should keep them at home'.

Floralnomad Sat 20-Jul-13 17:35:43

mrskeith where do you live then because if I ever move that's where I need to be ,when we took our dog for a swim in the sea this week we had to drive past about 10 beaches to get to a dog friendly one !

TimeofChange Sat 20-Jul-13 17:36:00

I went to a beach last Sunday at 6.00am.
It was a bloody disgrace.
Why don't humans pick up their litter?

Talacre - that's where we take our dog, it's ace! (I wasn't there today though)
I've never seen any dog poo there, what a shame.

Dogs are allowed on that beach all year round.

The human litter is a bloody disgrace on beaches. Burying it seems to be the norm. Especially nappies.

shufflehopstep Sat 20-Jul-13 17:38:26

Why do people insist on taking dogs with them? Because people have dogs so they can enjoy their company and if they are going on a family outing, the dog's part of the family and will go with them. If it was a dog-friendly beach, don't go there if you have a problem with it. If it was a "no dogs" beach, report them. If an owner has failed to clean up after their dog, report them. Stop complaining about things that you have the power to do something about.

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 17:39:33

That beach seems to be marketed as a dog friendly beach.

The beach is so much nicer without the tourists cluttering it up. When I take ds1 for most of the year he knows everyone, everyone talks to him, he goes surfing - we love it - it's a our little safe space that we visit at least once every week.

Come July and August and out come the gawpers and the starers and the tut tut brigade.

Give me a bunch of dogs - even badly behaved ones any day.

I would rather they took the dogs on the beach than left them in the car.

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 17:41:01

You will need to take it up with the council.
I presume there are debates in your local paper about it?

There are loads of signs up at Talacre saying that there is a £1000 fine for dog fouling.

500internalerror Sat 20-Jul-13 17:44:43

It's the same in the park when we take a picnic. But we all have a right to enjoy this earth, so we should all be tolerant. If a dog is bothering you-weeping up your cool box, talk to the owner.

Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:44:47

I don't understand why anyone would leave litter behind. Beaches always have lots of bins.
SauvignonBlanche i bet you control you dog and pick up after it though don't you?

Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 17:47:28

@500. The owner was no where to be seen. Or at least nobody would own up to owning the little sod.

SauvignonBlanche it was caked in dog poop today.

SillyTilly123 Sat 20-Jul-13 18:03:58

I got my dog in January and took her to the beach at least once a week-no matter what the weather. Why should we have to change something we always do to please people who only come out in the sun?

Our local beach is half allowed dogs and half not in the summer, so I take my dog and my 3 kids to the beach and habe a wonderful time watching them chase each other in the water. Why should we miss out? My dog has 99% recall though and doesnt chase after people or other dogs (very proud of her -shes only 10 month) so I do let her off lead. Ive also witnessed other children delighting in her frolics and throwing sticks for her.

usualsuspect Sat 20-Jul-13 18:07:03

I like seeing dogs on beaches.They always look like they are having a great time.

SelectAUserName Sat 20-Jul-13 18:07:03

Oh goody, another dog thread.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 18:10:44

Dogs are allowed on my our beach all year round, there are others locally that do not allow dogs during the tourist season. The beaches are immaculate for the whole of out season; as soon as the tourists arrive, the beaches are littered with cans, bottles, old nappies, etc.

Then there's the fucking caravans.

It's the tourists that are the bloody nusciences, not the local dogs.

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 18:12:17

hmm. You didnt answer my question, your choice though I realise.
But it does make me think that really you are just venting. Maybe understandably, but you are not going to actually do anything, are you. Again, your choice.

Pigsmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 18:15:06

If you are a dog owner there is nothing nicer than taking your Dog to the beach for a run. YABU

Are you a local OP, what is the council there?

SoupDragon Sat 20-Jul-13 18:17:14

Your problem is not with dogs on beaches, it is with crap owners taking their dogs to beaches.

Lara2 Sat 20-Jul-13 18:18:08

Anyone who doesn't pick up after their dog is BU.However, I'm sick to death of my dogs eating all the leftover BBQ crap people leave all over my beach - take it home!!!!!

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 18:21:07

hmm

If you don't like it go to a beach where dogs are banned.

Most beaches don't allow dogs. I have to drive much further to go to a dog friendly beach as all the ones that are closer to me ban them in the summer.

LastTangoInDevonshire Sat 20-Jul-13 18:24:21

I suggest, OP, that you get onto your local Council and try and get dogs banned from your preferred beach. Good luck.

Or look up dog free beaches in your area and go there.

Tut.

Prestatyn beach is very near Talacre and dogs aren't allowed on the beach in the summer.

Happiestinwellybobs Sat 20-Jul-13 18:29:09

Happiestdog loves to splash in the waves, swim in the sea, dig great big holes and romp around.

That being said we clean up his poo, keep him on a long lead if people are on the beach and have taught him not to piss on people's ice boxes.

Burmobasher Sat 20-Jul-13 18:36:49

Erm, they take their dogs because the beach doesn't just belong to you!
Fwiw I keep my dog on a lead in the summer and out of control dogs are as much a PITA to responsible dog owners as they are to you.

tallulah Sat 20-Jul-13 18:37:04

We went to a beach last weekend with notices everywhere saying dogs banned May to September. There were dogs everywhere. Unfortunately the sort of people who think the notice doesn't apply to their dog are also those who can't control them sad

Turniptwirl Sat 20-Jul-13 18:43:05

If its a beach where dogs are allowed all year round yabu, most beaches ban dogs in the summer so should be easy to find a dog free one.

If dogs were banned and irresponsible owners ignored that then yanbu

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 18:43:46

Locals don't take their dogs on the dog free beaches, we don't want to walk them in Mablethorpe or Skegness. Locals know all the lovely, mostly tourist free beaches, and avoid the tourists ones like the plague.

LucilleBluth Sat 20-Jul-13 18:48:57

We rented a lovely beach front cottage in Wales in May, it had private access to the beach. I'm not kidding when I say that the beautiful beach was rammed with dogs, a few even ran up to the cottage and into the garden, I would drink my morning coffee on the deck and watch hoards of dog owners picking up shit.

I love love love dogs btw, but they do spoil a good day at the beach with little ones.

SarahAndFuck Sat 20-Jul-13 18:51:56

It's advertised as a dog friendly beach all year round, so YABU to wonder why people take dogs there.

Not being unreasonable to expect owners to be responsible for them while they are there.

Would you also be complaining if you'd gone to the park or the woods instead and seen dogs?

And how often do you have a day on the beach with little ones? And how often do the dog owners go in the beach?

I was told off for having my dog on a beach by a tourist. I pointed out they had misread the signs & if they crossed the other side of the stream they would be on the dog free bit (& we would not :rolls eyes: )

I think dog free beaches are fine. But I do get cross with people who go to the beach twice a year complaining when we're on a dog allowed bit of beach with a well behaved dog.

Dumbledoresgirl Sat 20-Jul-13 18:56:28

Well, I can fully understand why dogs would enjoy beaches and why dog owners would want to take their dogs to the beach, but I am a bit bemused by this as the beach I have always gone to, all my life, in Cornwall, only allows dogs on the beach during the off-season. I don't know how you find out these things, but it must be possible to look up which beaches near you ban dogs OP.

jellybelly18 Sat 20-Jul-13 19:05:31

We have beaches which are half dog allowed half dog not allowed which is perfect. If dogs weren't allowed on the beach I would have nowhere locally to walk my dog. So if it was a dog friendly beach YABU

littlewhitebag Sat 20-Jul-13 19:27:07

My lab loves the beach but in the summer season I would only take her early morning or evening or in the rain. I love the winter months on the beach. It is deserted. I always pick up after my dog.

soverylucky Sat 20-Jul-13 19:29:51

YANBU - but then I think all dogs except working dogs/guide dogs should be banned. Wouldn't even think of going to a beach unless it was one that banned dogs.

MiaowTheCat Sat 20-Jul-13 19:32:25

Aaaah the summer "we want the open spaces so lock the dogs up for 2 months" festival of vitriol starts.

I don't take our dogs to the beach - the fluffy brainless one is scared of the water coming back to chase him!

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 20-Jul-13 19:34:11

Dog walkers are usually on the beach in the bleak winter months with their dogs, not just in the summer so <shrug>

I'm sorry a few twatty owners ruined your day though.

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 20-Jul-13 19:36:01

I was being sincere there - allowing ones dog to piss over someone's possessions suggests they weren't paying attention to their dog. That makes them twatty imo.

But as I walk my dog on a nearby beach in the depths of winter,I'll continue to do so now it's summer. More considerately than the few you came across.

Eastpoint Sat 20-Jul-13 19:43:03

I'm sick of families leaving their rubbish on the beach - nappies, broken spades, food they couldn't finish. I've bought muzzles for my dogs to wear so they can't eat what should have been taken home/left in a bin. There are big bins at the closest path to the car park & loos that are emptied every morning.

It's a dog friendly beach, go & spoil somewhere else.

Chickensarmpit Sat 20-Jul-13 19:51:41

Why should i go somewhere else? It's my local beach.

The dogs on the beach are mainly tourists dogs. Who are ruining it for everybody.

MrsDeVere Sat 20-Jul-13 20:16:02

Bloody tourist and their bloody money.
Ban them
Then you can have the beach to yourself.
Your local economy will probably fizzle away but you won't have to worry about a few crp owners.

It's mine and my dog's local beach too, though I live in England.
If you're local to the area why not contact he council?
It must be visitors as I've never seen a single turd on that beach though I mostly go out of season.

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 20:43:55

I'm guessing you have already contacted the council, and the local paper and got nowhere.

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 20:46:03

Why should i go somewhere else? It's my local beach.

The dogs on the beach are mainly tourists dogs. Who are ruining it for everybody.

You should go somewhere else as its a dog friendly beach and you don't want to be on the same beach as dogs.

How exactly do you know they are all tourists dogs?

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 20:46:47

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/agencies-join-forces-crack-down-2643669

There you are. Things you can actively do about it.

ouryve Sat 20-Jul-13 20:50:30

Why not?

On really busy resort beaches, where you can't even walk without having to step over other people, I can understand no dog rules. We went up the Northumberland coast for the day, a couple of weeks ago, though and a large, bouncy dog was part of the uniform. They were charging around having fun, as were a load of teenage boys - all with tennis balls. One dog was digging an even bigger hole than the people it owned.

There was no dog dirt.

Growlithe Sat 20-Jul-13 20:54:00

I don't mind dogs on the beach. Can't stand smokers leaving ciggie stumps in the sand though.

Our dogs love the beach - winter and summer. At the moment, it is great for them to be able to cool down. You can strip down to the lightest summer clothing, but my lab is stuck wearing a thick fur coat, so really struggles with the heat. Taking her, and ddog2 (whose fur coat is lighter than ddog1's but still pretty warm for this weather) to the beach or the river so they can have a swim is pretty vital for them.

However, we don't let them make a nuisance of themselves and wouldn't dream of leaving their poo on the beach, or letting them wee on anyone's possessions - that is just grim, crap-dog-owner behaviour, and I would have no problem with such people being thrown off the beach and/or fined.

YABU to be surprised to find dogs on a designated dog-friendly beach, but YANBU to want and expect decent behaviour from them and their owners.

dawntigga Sat 20-Jul-13 20:58:14

We go to Talacre beach at least twice a month and have never been bothered by dogs, maybe it's you.

FFSTiggaxx

Taffeta Sat 20-Jul-13 21:03:21

We have a cat not a dog but are a family of animal lovers, so if we go to a beach that has a dog area, we seek it out. Love dogs.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 21:04:43

How exactly do you know they are all tourists dogs?

Because out of season dog walkers get to know each other, even if only by sight.
Because out of season there's rarely dog shit on the beach.
Because out of season there's rarely litter on the beach.

MrsCampbellBlack Sat 20-Jul-13 21:05:19

I am not a dog lover by any stretch.

However, just back from lovely week in Pembrokeshire and went to several beaches which were dog friendly. And all the dogs were well behaved, all seemed to be off lead and thankfully I saw no dog poo anywhere.

Far worse dog fouling in my Wiltshire village to be honest.

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 22:06:33

*Because out of season dog walkers get to know each other, even if only by sight.
Because out of season there's rarely dog shit on the beach.
Because out of season there's rarely litter on the beach.*

That's crap. I walk my dog twice a day and don't profess to know every dog owner who does that walk or who uses the local beach.

I was at our local beach today (with my dog) and there were lots of other dogs there. Just because I go there regularly and haven't seen them before doesn't mean that they're all tourists.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 22:24:12

With respect, I live in a tiny, rural area, and not only do most people know each other, it is also very obvious when the tourist season starts.

Just because it isn't like that where you are, doesn't make it crap.

ChoudeBruxelles Sat 20-Jul-13 22:25:47

My dogs love the beach. Go to a beach where dogs aren't allowed. Most popular beach in the summer don't allow dogs anyway

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 22:30:28

Well it is crap if its not true and it's certainly not true where I live (in deepest darkest country bumpkin middle of nowhere land).

It's not fair or reasonable to assume that all people with dogs on beaches that you don't know are tourists and even if they are tourists, if its a dog friendly beach then they have as much right to be there as anyone else.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 22:34:45

Oh FFS, just because its not true where you live, doesn't make it not true where I live. Unless we're going to the same, tiny beach, which is practically deserted out of season, and only really used by the tourists who stay in the very local, very small caravan parks/campsites in the immediate vicinity.

Otherwise it's hardly known.

miffybun73 Sat 20-Jul-13 22:36:06

YANBU. I would only go to a beach that was dog free. Otherwise I wouldn't go near.

specialsubject Sat 20-Jul-13 22:36:07

why should the OP go away? If the beach is a no-dog zone, that's it. No-one has to own a dog. If you do, you have to follow the rules.

I quite like dogs, BTW.

DreamingOfTheMaldives Sat 20-Jul-13 22:37:48

You know, I hate it when I go on walks with my dog and I have to be careful not to get glass in his paw because some inconsiderate arse has smashed glass on the floor, or I have to stop him picking up plastic bottles (which he loves to play with) that have been discarded by lazy inconsiderate arsey litterbugs.

Do I think that ALL people should be banned from walks - no because that would be ridiculous!

Alisvolatpropiis Sat 20-Jul-13 22:38:05

Sarah

Are you based in S.Wales?

Your beach sounds like the one I take my dog to (all weathers). I just wondered because there's definitely an element of recognising each other going on. I don't tend to recognise people because I'm only there once a week, maybe once a fortnight but the very regular people recognise me (well,the dog).

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 22:38:53

special it's not a no-dog zone.

stratters is this your local beach that the OP is talking about?

If so, my apologies. If not then your argument doesn't stand as its bit true for all beaches and all holiday destinations everywhere.

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 22:39:23

Bit = not. Meh.

thenightsky Sat 20-Jul-13 22:43:36

Stratters are you talking Anderby? I used to take kids and dog there in years gone by. Lovely lovely place.

Sarah - it makes sense to me that a regular on a particular dog walk be it on a beach or anywhere else, would get to know most of the other regulars, and would therefore be able to spot the tourists. MrsWolowitz - I am not sure why you seem so keen to shout Sarah down. hmm

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sat 20-Jul-13 23:01:35

Wolla Bank, night, even tinier than Anderby!

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 23:01:40

I'm not keen to "shout her down" but I don't agree that you can identify tourists just because you haven't seen them before. I say that as someone who used to live on an island of few inhabitants and is a popular holiday destination <outs self>

However I am very tired and teasy so I hope I haven't been rude but I still don't understand how you can pick someone out as a tourist on the basis that you haven't seen them before, or what that has to do with the OP.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 23:09:35

I never see that.

I live in a popular holiday destination and the only places that I see dog poo is on the school routes and the back lane walking routes.

I rarely see it anywhere else. I must be very lucky (or have shoes with loads of crap in the soles that I've stood in without seeing it).

That's why the dog poo threads always confuse me as its not something that I see, people tend to be good at picking up.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kerala Sat 20-Jul-13 23:15:59

Loving the snooty attitudes from those that happen to live near beaches towards those that dare to visit them

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 23:16:58

I hope that doesn't mean that the dogs don't get a walk just because its not lovely weather sad

My dog would just go berserk if he missed a walk. He's only 6 months old but he is so full of energy. He's exhausted this evening after playing on the beach and swimming in the sea earlier though. Even though he stinks and needs a bath now.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IRCL Sat 20-Jul-13 23:19:39

Because beaches are for everyone to enjoy.

Although I completely agree that shit dog owners shouldn't be allowed.

We no longer have a dog but when we did we would never let him do the things described in your OP.

Disgusting.

RobotBananas Sat 20-Jul-13 23:20:33

Go to a beach that doesn't allow dogs. Easy.

If you think your local beach should be dog free, talk to the council.

mrsyattering Sat 20-Jul-13 23:20:42

I have no problems with dogs on beaches as long as they are cleaned up after. One owner on a Lewis beach this week though it acceptable to leave a dog poo next to my kids sand castle!!!!

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 23:21:13

What the actual Jeff have I said now to deserve a hmm ?

ChippingInHopHopHop Sat 20-Jul-13 23:23:32

People on the beach - why?? If you can answer that - you can probably answer why there are dogs on the beach. Doesn't actually take a genius. If you can't answer that, you probably need help. HTH.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 23:27:30

I think you think I've accused you of not walking your dog.

You said * I wonder what the irresponsible owners actually do with their dogs the other 10 months of the year*

And I said I hope that doesn't mean that the dogs don't get a walk just because its not lovely weather

Not sure how you've managed to make that about you but that's what I think you've done. Other than that I have no idea what you're all hmm about.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsWolowitz Sat 20-Jul-13 23:35:44

I agree.

It'd stop people buying on a whim then not having a clue about what to do. Part of the licence should be compulsory vaccinations and flea and worm treatment IMO but maybe that's a bit harsh.

I'd also like to see dog foul penalties more frequently enforced (school run dodge the poo rage).

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kleptronic Sat 20-Jul-13 23:51:31

Really? £1000?

I pick up my dog's shit. Every time. Even when it's liquid, in nettles/brambles/long grass, when it's invisible I go by smell and I scrabble at it with a poop bag. I really try hard. My dog even shits right next to the bin, he's that bright.

I pick up random turds if there's any nearby. I might as well, how can I say, this shit, but not that?

I am not paying £1000. I do my time, and I'm not sure how it would be possible to differentiate between me and any other lackadaisical dog owner.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 00:03:06

£1000 for dog shit?

Can we start charging for horse shit that can be left wherever the horse feels like shitting then?

That's much bigger.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 00:03:27

I obviously don't mean in fields.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 00:16:29

What is BYB's?

Thumbwitch Sun 21-Jul-13 00:57:08

Back yard breeders.

NoComet Sun 21-Jul-13 01:05:57

Why do people own dogs, full stop?

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 01:10:31

Ah I see!

It would be no bad thing to see the back of such people,you're not wrong.

Threefurrymonsters Sun 21-Jul-13 01:17:21

Starball i own three dogs because I like dogs (and most animals) better than I like most people, tbh.
I live two minutes from a pristine beach. Walk my 3 there every day, as do loads of other people. Nary a dog turd to ever be seen.
I say it's pristine...that is until the daytrippers turn up and leave their fag ends, coke cans and sandwich wrappers everywhere. Or they leave their rubbish beside the bin if it's full instead of taking it away with them. Rude, thoughtless littering bastards.
You can maybe see why I like dogs better.

RealAleandOpenFires Sun 21-Jul-13 01:23:56

Picture & shame campaigns with hefty fines on all beaches with re:- to both irresponsible litterers & dog owners.

RealAleandOpenFires Sun 21-Jul-13 01:29:10

Oooops! that should've been "irresponsible dog owners".

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 21-Jul-13 01:36:14

Because out of season dog walkers get to know each other, even if only by sight.
Because out of season there's rarely dog shit on the beach.
Because out of season there's rarely litter on the beach

That's not crap, Mrs.Wolowitch.

I walk my dogs twice a day, but rarely at the same time or place on the same days. I still know a fair few dog owners local to me.

My Dad walks his same time of day, same place every day (the local beach as it happens) he knows everyone from the security men, the fisher men, the golfers and fellow dog owners.

Which is great for me because it means he can calm me down when I get power leaned by sopping wet, unusually hairy Rottweilers, by informing me their owner is just over the hill and will be along shortly to rescue me but that the rotties love his dogs and always run off to play when they hear them.

He even knows the ponies.

It's only when high summer comes that he has problems.

manicinsomniac Sun 21-Jul-13 03:09:25

I've never understood the no dog thing. I don't live anywhere near the beach but it seems grossly unfair to disrupt local people's daily routine just because some people who are only there for the day don't like it.

charitymum Sun 21-Jul-13 03:40:02

YANBU - it's not dogs though it's owners. Most are great but some are crap. A dog close enough to you and far enough from owner to wee on your picnic box is a danger. And please dog owners don't tell me it isn't. I spent all day at beach last weekend shooing dog away from my one year old who was playing at teeth level on blanket. And no there was not a dog free beach available.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 21-Jul-13 03:49:23

YANBU.

Dogs are not human. Humans have greater rights to public spaces then dogs do.

I would love a £1000 dog licence fee.

manicinsomniac Sun 21-Jul-13 04:09:30

a £1000 dog licence fee is an appalling idea. How many people have that kind of cash to spare? What would happen to all (the majority?) of dogs whose owners would have to give them up because they couldn't afford £1000? What would happen to all the puppies born that nobody could afford to buy? Why should poor but caring and responsible people who would love a dog be debarred from owning one but rich people who could pay someone else to train, walk and feed it and give it a pat on the head every so often be allowed one?

Chottie Sun 21-Jul-13 07:12:14

OP - I understand where you are coming from. We've had a dog on a lead allowed to pee over our windbreak. It is so annoying, having to rinse the windbreak off, watch DC and belongings.

I am sure that all MN with dogs are really responsible smile but dog owners who are not really spoil other people's day out. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live near to a beach, for some of us it is a really looked forward to treat.

p.s. I also think that dogs are not humans.

<<flack jacket and tin helmet at the ready>>

SillyTilly123 Sun 21-Jul-13 07:46:38

If they brought in a £1000 licencing fee I'd have to have my dog put down or rehomed. £20 a week on top of food/toys/vacs is totally undoable for me yet im very responsible. I've trained my Tilly loads and make sure she doesnt bother anyone (99% of the time she comes back) The thought I might have to get rid of her really upsets me. I could maybe afford £10 a month but not £20 a week.

Then theres my nan who has her little dog for company after my grandad died. How can she afford £20 a week on a state pension, when she already goes without some luxurys to feed him?

Of course you get to know local dogs if you're a regular. My DOG recognises the locals, never mind me!

I walk my dog year round on the same beach - I do often avoid sunny days in july/august but that's because of the way strangers (they may be tourists they may be daytrippers) react to ds1 rather than the dog, I don't think it's fair on ds1 to be gawped at.

I have never seen a dog poo on the beach. But see above, I don't go on days when I know the beach won't be busy with tourists/daytrippers. I always pick up after my dog, but then like many year round beach users I am in the sea a lot all year round. I don't want to swallow a dog turd while surfing.

I worry more about broken bottles & rusted bbq's - have nearly cut myself surfing before on glass at the shoreline - which must have been left on the beach very recently or it would have been smooth (eg if carried there).

Like many regular beach users I pick up, and get rid of other people's rubbish if I see it on the beach. Like many responsible dog owners I pick up other dog poo if I see it, eg in a park. It seems more practical than whinging or coming up with bonkers ideas about £1000 licences - being rich doesn't make you responsible or thoughtful. Sticking with the beach theme the last person to swear at ds1 at the beach was a rich tourist (judging by his car). I don't see that he would make a more thoughtful dog owner than someone who couldn't afford a £1000 licence. Most places have fines for not picking up anyway.

Eastpoint Sun 21-Jul-13 08:02:26

I walked my dogs before 9 yesterday morning, only fishermen & dog walkers on the beach. However my little dog has just sicked up a big ball of tin foil left over from someone's picnic. Luckily it was windy & we didn't have as many picnickers as sometimes so there'll be less rubbish today.

buttercrumble Sun 21-Jul-13 08:04:52

Get on the dog free part

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 08:10:06

Yasoooooonbu

Loathe dogs on beaches(out of control greyhound on one at year).One we go to and pay taxes for was overrun last year- jumping over picnic blankets,over excitedly bounding up to people,poo,sniffing picnics etc.I love it when they're banned in the summer until Sep,whole different atmosphere.I know soooooo many people who feel the same.

We go to another one in the summer which allows them but on leads,marginally better.People still take the Mick,after getting fed up with an off the lead dog sniffing their picnic last year the family next to us reported it to the parking attendant and it was dealt with.

Yay to a tax and also visible license numbers so nuisance dogs are easier to report.

ovenbun Sun 21-Jul-13 08:24:31

hmm...sorry you came across such bad owners at the beach...i think in future maybe asking for a dog free area is a good idea.

With this licence fee rubbish it would cost more to administrate than it would achieve..think it would be really hard to police..there will always be good owners and bad owners...farmers are regulated to the hilt but there are still bad ones...i think better regulation of breeders/puppy/litter fees would be more feasible..although still very difficult

xxx

Oh I see the bonkers anti dog brigade have made it on to this thread as well. Pmsl at using 'I pay taxes' as an argument. Er presumably the dog owner pays taxes as well. What on earth is the relevance of that. I see far more dog owners than picnickers on the beach for ten months of the year. They're the ones buying food & coffees at the cafe in the middle of winter (well along with the surfers - not many picnickers).

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 08:32:09

£1,000 a year from every dog owner might see enough dog shit wardens employed.

And parents could pay a similar fee to have the crap their children leave behind cleared up.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 08:34:53

The problem is there are more irresponsible dog owners than responsible ones. I'm sure everyone on here is a responsible owner- but it' not much goo saying "we'll complain then" after your toddler has had it's sandcastle trashed by a manic spaniel and a collie has peed on your deck chair!

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 08:39:35

The problem is there are more irresponsible dog owners than responsible ones.

No, the problem is that you generally don't notice the responsible ones because they are being responsible.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Turnipinatutu Sun 21-Jul-13 08:43:52

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread.
If you don't like dogs on beaches, then fuck off to dog free beaches and stop moaning.

No beer - it would mean only the wealthy could afford dogs. Personally my experience has been that having money doesn't necessarily make you thoughtful or considerate.

I meet many dog owners. Only one is what I would call irresponsible & her dog is a danger to other dogs rather than people.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 08:51:31

And yet you still try to argue that a ridiculous fee won't restrict dog owning to the well off confused

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 08:53:19

I still think a license fee for the owners of children would go a long way to clearing up the mess they leave outside secondary schools etc. Either train your children to pick up after themselves or go and do it yourself. Irresponsible parents

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 08:54:45

"
No, the problem is that you generally don't notice the responsible ones because they are being responsible."

Well, possibly. But the fact is that dog owners can't just say "not my problem". The presence of dogs often makes things very unpleasant. Something has to happen- I'm not sure what. And, sadly, dog free beaches are a step in the right direction. Because a child's right not to step on dog shit in bare feet is more important than a dog's right to go own the beach.

How many people buy a cute ickle puppy? Dogs are expensive anyway. The only person I've met in shock after buying a puppy (she stopped me on the beach to quiz me about her puppy's (normal) behaviour) had done all the research very carefully. She just clearly had no concept of what puppy's were like.

If you want people to go into dog ownership sensibly then insist on time with puppy's or dogs so they know what they're getting into.

I'd quite like a horse. I don't have one because I know I don't have the time. I know that partly because I ride but mainly because I attend weekly horse care lessons.

Education usually works better than charging a random amount that will put dog ownership out of the reach of many.

I don't think mandatory dog care courses are remotely practical btw but if you want to tackle the issue of irresponsible dog owners they'd work a lot better than charging everyone £1000 to own a dog.

My children have never stepped on dog poo on the beach. And we go there every week all year round. They have however narrowly avoided glass & tin cans. Maybe you'd like to rethink what needs to be banned from the beach?

Honestly how often do you all actually go to the beach? In a year?

Oh I do know how to spell puppies but my phone doesn't

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:00:33

But the fact is that dog owners can't just say "not my problem".

Well, it isn't my problem. I pick up after my dog and he is always on a lead - what else is it you expect me to do?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

And you are wading through dog poo in that time? In the depths of winter the only people on the beach (keeping the cafe open) ime are dog walkers and surfers/kite surfers etc.

Incidentally I have seen many horse owners with money but no clue, again education is the key, not money. You don't automatically become a good horse owner just because you have cash. Ditto dog owner.

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:02:24

I agree with JimJams - the vast majority (I would say all actually) of stuff on the beach near my where my parents live is due to humans.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:03:08

Saintly and Soup not where I live.

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:03:28

Yy. I'm only responsible for my dog, not any one else's.

Not entirely sure what your sentiment/meaning is here.

Yes but I am beginning to think you live in a parallel universe as far as dogs are concerned mrbuttercat

Do you have no rubbish left by humans on the beach? Only dog poo?

I really have never seen a dog poo left on the beach. If I did I would pick it up, paid up member of SAS, I like my water clean.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:10:45

I go to the beach about once a week in the winter- 3 or 4 times a week in the summer. Why?

And it's ridiculous to say things about litter and so on. That's bad too. But this thread is about dogs!

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:12:07

OK - I was confused by the last few posts where you seemed anti dog grin

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:14:05

And a Macdonald's wrapper, however disgusting, is not anything like as bad as dog poo. And I don't like being shaken over or having dogs run over my picnic rug, or trampling sandcastles either.

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:14:14

And it's ridiculous to say things about litter and so on.

No it isn't. This thread is making dogs out to be the epitome of evil and solely responsible for mess/annoyance/destruction on beaches. How is it ridiculous to point out that humans are responsible for far more?

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:15:44

But it's not just McDonald's wrappers is it?
It's glass. Which cut.
And cans - which go rusty. And cut.
Fishing paraphernalia....

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:15:50

OK. humans leave litter too. Agreed.

Back to dogs......

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 09:16:37

And small children behave badly and trample over stuff too.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:22:09

Patient sigh.

Yes. But it is very unusual for a small child to trample a sandcastle and run across a picnic rug and for the parents either not to see because they are 100 metres away, or for them to say "oh, sorry, he's only being friendly". Also not many small children would be actually frightened if another small child did this.
Now, back to dogs....

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:26:08

Curlew kids don't often lick other people's food,put their noses into picnic bags or jump on/ over kids they don't know and run round and round picnic blankets getting more excited the more the poor kids sat on the blanket get terrified.

Ok. I have never experienced a problem with a dog on a beach. Not once. In parks yes, on the beach not once. Despite using the beach more than the majority of posters on this thread. And more often than I use parks.

I have nearly cut myself on glass while surfing. I have had the kids nearly cut themselves on BBQ shite left behind while surfing, I have had people swear at my disabled son who was minding his own business. I have come across used condoms on a beach. I have come across nappies dumped in unsavoury places. I have come across drunk people fighting on the beach.

Erm the problem really isn't dogs. And if you can't tolerate dogs on the beach in the summer you can usually find a dog free beach. I drive past two to get to my regular beach (which also had a summer dog free area). Now I'd like a lemon sucker free beach or one free of the tut tut brigade. Unfortunately they're harder to find (although midst of winter seems to work well).

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:31:38

Saintly I live in Devon and go to a lot of beaches,none I know are like that.

Um my severely autistic son used to love jumping on sandcastles - which led to some interesting wrestling matches. Ban him!

I live in Devon as well. You've clearly been lucky. Or too busy complaining about the dogs.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:33:18

But this thread is about the particular problems that dogs cause on beaches.

Happy to contribute to another thread about litter.

But pretending that dogs never cause problems is just silly.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:33:59

Saintly he can't help it and wouldn't scare my kids or spoil their picnic.

And if you live in Devon with the greatest respect - certainly in south devon - maybe the north is different - there are loads of dog free beaches in the summer. And many more with dog restrictions. Considering how much you loathe dogs just go to a dog free beach.

Lazyjaney Sun 21-Jul-13 09:36:46

But it is very unusual for a small child to trample a sandcastle and run across a picnic rug and for the parents either not to see because they are 100 metres away

You forgot about the small child weeing on your picnic box and taking a dump on the beach too.smile

Amazing how so many dog owners do not seem to see dog poo on beaches as a problem either. Funny, that.

Well the dog can't help it. And at 5 foot 6 he seems to scare quite a few who haven't been exposed to people with learning disabilities

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 09:37:28

The solution is very simple, if you don't want to be on the same beach as dogs, go to a beach where they are banned.

There are more dog-free beaches in the summer than there are dog- friendly ones.

He being ds1 there - I don't have a 5 foot 6 dog. Point being if my dog or child trample a sandcastle it is my fault not there's but I take actions to ensure neither does because I know they're both capable of it.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:38:41

Saintly I do but come the winter they're back.Also frankly as we pay a shed load of council tax I wish to go on any beach I choose without having my kids jumped on or chased- all year round!

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:41:20

"Well the dog can't help it"

No. But a dog can and should be stopped. Because it's a dog! And dogs are lower down the pecking order than humans.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 09:42:52

Also frankly as we pay a shed load of council tax I wish to go on any beach I choose without having my kids jumped on or chased- all year round!

Dog owners also pay council tax hmm

As for "go to any beach I choose" you are just making life hard for yourself. The beach I like is dog-free in the summer so I go to another one, much further away to take my dog. It's not a problem, it's a choice I make. Why are you deliberately choosing a dog-friendly beach if they bother you so much? Just go to a dog-free one.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 09:48:34

Why do people insist on their dog's right to behave badly wherever it wants to? I am not intruding on a dog's space lying on a rug- the dog is intruding on mine by galumphing over me.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:49:28

Because my nearest beach is 15 minutes way,where my dc see their friends,where the local park is,is safe,better range of water,rockpools etc,etc,etc.

Can't afford petrol to drive miles away.

Dog owners may be tax payers however as a tax payer I have a right to enjoy the beach without my kids being terrified or our picnic spoilt.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 09:50:08

Nobody is defending irresponsible dog owners allowing their dogs to behave badly.

We are defending our right to go to dog-friendly beaches with our dogs.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 09:52:15

Well MrButtercat unfortunately if you won't go to a dog-free beach then you are stuck with having dogs around you on the beach.

You don't have the right to stop dogs going in dog-friendly beaches.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 09:54:17

I do have the right to want the authorities to clamp down on dogs invading my space and bing a nuisance on beaches which sadly in my experience are the maj on beaches.

cricketballs Sun 21-Jul-13 09:55:54

GoshAnneGorilla "Humans have greater rights to public spaces then dogs do" - why?

Dogs, cats, in fact any sort of animal has just as much right to use space on this planet as we humans do.....

Lazyjaney Sun 21-Jul-13 09:55:59

"Nobody is defending irresponsible dog owners allowing their dogs to behave badly"

I think one of the problems is that what many dog owners think is dogs behaving delightfully well and being friendly is actually very annoying and worrying to others, especially those with small kids.

Er yes curlew I said that it was up to me to stop my dog (or severely autistic child) trampling sandcastles. Hardly defending the dog's right to behave badly!

I live in Devon mrbuttercat & since my children have learned how to behave around dogs have never been chased. As I have said on countless threads ds2's OTT reaction to the mere sight of a dog used to lead to him being chased repeatedly. But not since he's learned to ignore dogs he doesn't want to interact with.

There's loads of room on Devon beaches in the winter. I can't imagine where you're going to be chased by rampaging dogs everywhere.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 10:02:47

MrButtercat as we've said, noone is disagreeing that dogs on beaches shouldn't be allowed to misbehave.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 10:03:07

Since my DS was bitten and is actually 9 not a toddler he certainly doesn't run around,he freezes.hmm

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 10:03:54

Mrs but they do.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 10:05:36

Then your issue is with irresponsible owners.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 10:06:18

"Dogs, cats, in fact any sort of animal has just as much right to use space on this planet as we humans do....."

Err- no they don't!

And it's not up to me to teach my child how to behave around dogs (although I, in fact, do). It's up to dog owners to make sure their dogs don't harass people who don't want them around them.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 10:07:00

Mrs who are the maj on beaches.They let them off leads and run yards ahead.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 10:10:44

No they aren't the majority. I don't know how all the badly behaved dogs rampaging around all seem to be near you but I rarely see naughty dogs on the beach.

cricketballs Sun 21-Jul-13 10:11:04

"Dogs, cats, in fact any sort of animal has just as much right to use space on this planet as we humans do....."

Err- no they don't!.......opps sorry, I must have forgotten that humans were the first living species on this planet and its all the rest that have invaded the space we have, caused pollution etc etc

Well if he freezes on an empty Devon beach I'm stunned a dog goes anywhere near him. My autistic son used to freeze near dogs, still does quite a lot & they never bothered him, only the 8 year old who used to flap and run.

Given how rural Devon is I think it's a bit bonkers to complain about dogs in the area tbh. I see dogs everywhere - and that was why ds2's dog phobia was such a major problem. All his friends had dogs - he really couldn't go & play at a dog free house - there weren't any. Short of moving from Devon (never!) we had to deal with it. He didn't have to love dogs (he does at it happens now) but he did have to learn to be around them if he was to continue going to friend's houses. He was terrified, it wasn't easy but such a joy to see him now.

KittensoftPuppydog Sun 21-Jul-13 10:12:50

Curlew, where did you get that idea from? What gives us more rights?

I let my dog off on the beach. He has a great run, has only eyes for his ball & the sea. If horses come on the beach he goes in the lead, as he does if it's very busy.

MrsWolowitz Sun 21-Jul-13 10:13:25

And it's not up to me to teach my child how to behave around dogs

I disagree. I teach my children how to behave around all animals that could a danger, horses, dogs etc. if you don't teach them who will?

Yes it is the owners responsibility to ensure that their dogs aren't a PITA but some basic knowledge of how to behave around dogs is important.

I think she misread my post kitten. Where I said my dog couldn't help trampling a sandcastle, in response to my buttercat saying it was okay for my severely autistic don to do it. Completely missing my point that I don't allow either of them to do that now I'm wise to it - and if it happens it's my fault.

No one had to teach their child to behave around dogs but you can't really then complain if your child gives 'play' signals to a dog & the dog then plays. Exactly what happened to ds2.

Likewise you don't have to teach your child to behave around horses. I did, but ds 3 didn't listen to me & ended up kicked in the head. He was very lucky not to be seriously injured - partly because he was wearing a hat. However, it was not the horse owners fault or the horse's fault. It was ds3's for not listening & mine for assuming he would .

I can't really understand why you wouldn't teach your child how to behave around animals really.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 10:21:26

Sorry - I'm not prepared to discuss the issue of whether humans have more "rights" than animals. To me, it's just a given. Obvious. Common sense. Any child has more rights than any dog. And anyone who thinks differently has skewed values

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 10:24:48

"I can't really understand why you wouldn't teach your child how to behave around animals really."

Neither do I. But it's up to animal owners to assume that people don't, and not blame the victim if something happens.

FanjoForTheMammaries Sun 21-Jul-13 10:26:14

Dogs on beaches enhance the whole beach experience for us..my DD.loves watching them

kissmyheathenass Sun 21-Jul-13 10:26:56

On the dog free beach yesterday, which is adjacent to a dog beach, were two families with big dogs off the lead. I should have told them to fuck off 20 yards to the dog beach but I didn't. They were obviously very entitled. Tossers..

cricketballs Sun 21-Jul-13 10:51:28

Curlew; no one has said that a dog has more rights than a child, I and Kittensoft have just questioned the point that was made that humans have more rights in public spaces

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 11:00:35

It's amazing how stupid some of the dog haters manage to make themselves sound on every single dog thread and yet others are able to be reasonable about it without reverting to "all dogs/owners" or "only humans have the right to be on the planet" style statements.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 11:02:45

Humans do have more rights than dogs in public spaces.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 11:04:15

That isn't what you said.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 11:04:55

"It's amazing how stupid some of the dog haters manage to make themselves sound on every single dog thread and yet others are able to be reasonable about it without reverting to "all dogs/owners" or "only humans have the right to be on the planet" style statements."

Nobody has said either of those things. Or anything like them. And I haven't seen any dog haters either. But you just make up whatever you like.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 21-Jul-13 11:16:54

I am not wealthy, far from it, but if I had to pay £1000 for a dog, I would find a way, because I need a dog in my life.

The same as we find a way for afford holidays, I'd find a way to fund my need for a dog.

I agree with Beer, that something needs to be done to stop impulse buying and a license fee would be a sensible way to that. Perhaps a cheaper one but a wait of say 60 days after applying before you can buy a dog and a reduced fee for people who want to rescue.

Our beach has dog free area. I have never seen a dog on the dog free area. I have never seen dog shit in the dog area. We always go to the dog area, occasionally my children and dogs get joined by dogs we know from walking there year round, because they're making lots of noise and have balls etc that they are throwing into the sea for the dogs.

I took them to dog-free beach once. They built a sandcastle and then got bored and asked where all the dogs where because they wanted to find an owner who'd let them take their dog into the sea to play fetch with a dog stick they'd found. Why should dog haters children trump my child's right to fun? For my children fun on a beach equates to playing in the sea with either their own dog or one they have managed to borrow from a friendly owner.

I'm happy to have parts of the beach we cannot go on with dogs. It means that the reckless eejits who put BBQs on the sand and then take them away leaving so sign that the sand is still boiling hot and leave their drink cans and litter, stay at their end of the beach and I can enjoy my end of the beach in relative peace.

You still get the odd one or two fair weather dog walkers, or people who drove from out of town who don't abide by the local "unspoken rules" of the dog beach, and there is more litter than normal, but generally the dog part of the beach is much cleaner and much friendlier and we have loads more space too.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 11:25:24

What I want to know is why anyone who thinks dogs should all be as well controlled as all mumsnetters dogs obviously are is a dog hater.....

SoupDragon Sun 21-Jul-13 11:50:44

Probably because you are blaming the dog rather than the Owner and making out that the vast majority of dogs are allowed to shit everywhere and run riot.
Probably because you place the cause of bad beach experiences squarely at the feet of dogs when they cause only a tiny minority of problems.

D0oin - your children would be heartily welcome to borrow my dogs to play in the sea and they could run the paws/legs off each other so they would all sleep like logs that night!

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 21-Jul-13 11:57:08

They found a dog on the beach in Turkey last time they went. They'd been bored silly and miserable and kept asking to go back to the pool so they could use their floaties (we don't let them have floaties in the sea in case the float too far out, because one of us has to mind the stuff there is only ever one parent to supervise both of them in the sea)

They then spotted a little Turkish girl playing with her dog and stared longingly at her for 5 minutes until she beckoned them over to play, they didn't understand a word they were saying to each other, but they had great fun throwing balls into the sea for the dog. The dog stayed with children and left the tourists alone.

On a beach in Spain a few years ago, I saw a Spanish woman take a shit and then cover it in sand.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 12:10:40

"Probably because you are blaming the dog rather than the Owner and making out that the vast majority of dogs are allowed to shit everywhere and run riot.
Probably because you place the cause of bad beach experiences squarely at the feet of dogs when they cause only a tiny minority of problems."

Well, if you read the thread rather than thinking you have you'd realise that's not true. Of course it's the owner's fault. Nobody is suggesting that dogs pick up their own poo!
And I have said repeatedly that I would be happy to join in a thread about litter- BUT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT DOGS!!!!!!

Ahem - ddog1, a brown lab, does pick up her own poo, of we don't get to it first. Fresh and warm is good, cold is good, and frozen poopsicles in winter are good. She is a vile and disgusting hound! grinenvy<boak-face.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 21-Jul-13 12:16:14

One of my dogs picks up other animal's shit envy <- also a boak face.

There is far more fox shit on our local beach than there is dog shit envy <- also boak face.

Oh how my dogs love fox shit sad

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 12:19:04

And my friend wonders why I don't like her dogs licking my face!

Ddog1 is something of a shit connoisseur - sheep poo, cow poo, horse poo and her own poo - all have been devoured and savoured. Fox poo is equally loved, but for rolling in, rather than consumption.

Someone local has been doing some gardening, that involved a truly disgusting-smelling mix of well rotted compost and horse shit. They dumped the leftovers by a path through the trees round e back of the houses, where a lot of dogs get walked - both of ours had to have showers on Friday night because they got to this bit before dh, and rolled luxuriantly and extensively in it.

Nope - I am baffled too, curlew!! grin

cornyblend37 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:21:37

I saw a jellyfish on a beach once. That's really taking the piss.

Mine will munch the contents of the cat litter tray at times. I have managed to train him to leave random shite alone. Thank God he doesn't roll in it (our collie used to). Although give him a muddy puddle and.....

God yes jellyfish should be banned or fined. I saw the tide destroy a sandcastle once as well.

quoteunquote Sun 21-Jul-13 12:34:57

available on line, for those people with access to a computer wink,

A list of dog free beaches for each area, and a list of dog friendly beaches.

If you don't like dogs go to a beach which has no dogs, lots available.

Personally I like human free beaches, unfortunately it is impossible to find one that doesn't have human litter on it.

I run a beach fairy group, one of many, dogs are not the problem humans are.

Of course it can be the fault of the child or parent if the child has never been taught how to behave. Ds2's arm flapping around dogs got him in all sorts of unwanted situations with them. That wasn't the dog's fault or the owners. And as someone who doesn't think the works revolved around their child I saw it as our job to teach him to behave in a way that didn't make him stand out as a willing plaything to every hound in the vicinity.

Likewise when ds 3 was kicked by the horse. It was unfortunate but it was not the horse or owner's fault. It was his and/or mine. He behaved in a way the owner (and I) had told him not to. Yes it was unfortunate (and tbh bring kicked in the head can be life changing - he was lucky) but the fact it happened doesn't make it suddenly not his (or my) fault. He listens now to instructions around horses luckily.

Buttercup4 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:38:51

OP it should more have been "why do they insist on bringing unruly dogs with them?"

I have spent many a times on the beach and at times it has been unruly children ruining my picnic. shock

My dog is well behaved and I wouldn't dream of letting her go anywhere near someone else's picnic.

The problem is respect. I respect someone else's right to enjoy their day, I expect the same from others.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 12:39:53

As you sadly know, you can teach a child til you're blue in the face how to behave around animals, but in the heat of the moment, they can forget. So it is up to dog owners to make sure their dogs don't frighten children.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 12:40:48

"The problem is respect. I respect someone else's right to enjoy their day, I expect the same from others."

This.

ArgyMargy Sun 21-Jul-13 12:43:11

So many dog threads!! Bored with this topic there is nothing new to say about dogs!! Oops sorry I'll go & read something else before I'm told to f-off.

I disagree curlew. I felt it was very much up to my son to learn to behave around dogs. It's up to dog owners to keep unsafe dogs away fom children/other dogs, but it's not a dog owners fault if a child over reacts & then causes problems for himself. My son couldn't even act sensibly around friendly family pets & so the invitations to visit friend's stopped. He/we HAD to sort that out, that was not the responsibility of the dog owners. Ditto if on the moors or beach when he'd start flapping every time he saw a dog - not the owners faults if their dogs took that as an invitation to play.

Likewise if his younger brother cannot understand 'stay away from that horse' (which was tied up) then gets kicked (as happened) then it is most certainly not the horse owner's fault.

And I do see it as my job to help my children through their fears - especially when they can't be avoid. This time last year ds2 was terrified of swimming. So he had lessons & this week was dunking friends in the sea after a (flat) surf lesson. His younger brother who was the same has just taken part in a swimming gala.

Ds1 has at various times been terrified to walk through doors, disturbed by light aircraft & driven to screaming distraction by people sitting in their cars & not getting out. He had to learn to deal with those because telling people minding their own business to get out of their cars wasn't acceptable & we live in a world of doors & light aircraft.

I haven't bothered to do too much about ds2's fear of heights because it doesn't affect him socially & has only been a problem twice. If he was in a position where it was more problematic we would have to try & find a way to deal with it.

Lazyjaney Sun 21-Jul-13 13:27:53

From this and other threads on here I've come to the conclusion that many doggy people have a sort of reality distortion field in their heads, and are completely unable to conceive of a world where their dog isn't loved by all, and doesn't take priority over all others' interests (and all people who don't also have this view of course labelled "dog haters").

And they will dogmatically assert that they are being rational in this dogma no matter how overbearing the contrary evidence - they are barking mad IMO grin

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 13:32:44

I see it as my job to teach my children how to behave around animals too. But unless a child actually does something to provoke an animal by hurting it or something like that, it is the dog/dog owner's fault if a dog scares/hurts a child. Children sometimes forget/are too scared to do the right thing.

Threefurrymonsters Sun 21-Jul-13 13:35:03

It is basic common sense to teach your kids how to behave around animals, and especially dogs. Because they are everywhere, and this isn't going to change. I can't tell you how many times unruly children have literally launched themselves at my dogs because they are big and golden and hairy and look like huge teddy bears. Now, if my mutts weren't the most laid-back dogs in the world, any one of those incidents could have caused serious trouble for me and my dogs despite us being totally fault-free because guess who would have gotten the blame if one of them had snapped at the child in fright? Mutual respect please. Responsible owners teach their dogs good behaviour and in turn, teach your kids how to behave around animals.
Oh, and I firmly believe that any and all species have the very same rights to the space on this planet that we humans do. Probably more so actually.
And one more thing. Humans, pick up your damn beach litter please.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 21-Jul-13 13:41:25

It's not the dog's fault if the child overreacts - what sort of victim blaming rubbish is this?

Also, no dogs do not have equal rights to humans in anything. Unless I'm on a thread with a load of Jain vegans, I'm pretty sure most of you do generally view animals as having fewer rights then humans, so stop pretending otherwise when it comes to dogs.

Also dog poo is a filthy, disease laden waste product, most litter isn't.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 13:42:03

"can't tell you how many times unruly children have literally launched themselves at my dogs because they are big and golden and hairy and look like huge teddy bears"

And they absolutely shouldn't. And in that case, if the child gets bitten, it's the child's fault. What we were talking about was so- called "play cues"- like running away. A scared child should be able to run away from a dog without being chased.

GoshAnneGorilla Sun 21-Jul-13 13:46:00

Mutual respect?

If your dog is at risk of biting someone, then they should be muzzled in public. Problem solved.

We generally believe in society that it is the onus of those with the violent impulses to control themselves, not for other people to avoid "provoking" them.

babybythesea Sun 21-Jul-13 14:10:24

From this and other threads on here I've come to the conclusion that many doggy people have a sort of reality distortion field in their heads, and are completely unable to conceive of a world where their dog isn't loved by all, and doesn't take priority over all others' interests (and all people who don't also have this view of course labelled "dog haters").

And they will dogmatically assert that they are being rational in this dogma no matter how overbearing the contrary evidence - they are barking mad IMO grin

Alternatively, dog lovers may be saying that there are options to go to beaches where dogs aren't allowed, so if you are not fond of dogs choose these beaches instead of insisting you can go wherever you want and then getting huffy when you find dogs there. I take my dog to the beach. I keep her away from the beaches where we are not allowed, even though I chose to live by the sea in order to be able to enjoy the beach. I just travel further to the dog-friendly beaches. There is plenty of space for non-doggy folk. I'd be pretty pissed off if I was left with no beach to go on because non-dog folk want access to all beaches all of the time with no dogs on. A compromise has been reached which should keep everyone happy. You choose a dog-friendly beach, there will be dogs. You can do something about it - but it's much more fun to keep going there and just moan isn't it?

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 14:13:52

The issue is that many dog owners- not mumsnetters, obviously, regard dog friendly as meaning dogs can do anything they like. Thus giving Mumsnet type dog owners who do pick up poo and stop their dogs running across picnics a bad name. Sad but true.

Threefurrymonsters Sun 21-Jul-13 14:14:08

Gosh I think you may be extrapolating there, in both of your posts hmm

jellybelly18 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:55:12

Ffs. I pick up my dog shit, put him on the lead near people especially children and only walk him on dog allowed beaches but I think some of you would still not be happy "that dog is breathing MY air. I pay council tax dontcha know"

Varya Sun 21-Jul-13 15:59:16

I don't take my dogs on the beach but noticed discarded nappies and other rubbish left behind by some parents on one beach near me. Dogs can't stay in the car when its hot, but we take ours inland and not on the beach in summer. Some dogs and some parents spoil the beach for others IMO.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 16:18:32

But unless a child actually does something to provoke an animal by hurting it or something like that, it is the dog/dog owner's fault if a dog scares/hurts a child. Children sometimes forget/are too scared to do the right thing

Totally agree with this. As I said on one of the many other dog threads, mine is tiny to an adult. Not so much so to a child. I'm very mindful of that when children are around/approach to stroke her.

I wasn't victim blaming - I was talking about my own son fgs. But his fear made him raise his arms, leap around and at worse run off screaming. All of which said 'play with me' to every friendly mutt in the vicinity. There was no victim - ds2 was never in any danger from these dogs. He just needed to learn to modify his behaviour so as not to get a playful response from every dog. Calling him a 'victim' is like calling ds1 a victim for being terrified of doors & light aircraft. They're everywhere so he had to learn to deal with them. Likewise ds2's life became a lot easier when he stopped over reacting to every friendly dog within 100 yards of him. That doesn't mean I welcome snarling child eaters - but I haven't met any yet.

Anyhow we've just been for a lovely walk. Me, ds1 & the dog. On the moors so I kept him on the lead (he isn't remotely interested in approaching children but he is very interested in sheep & ponies so he stays on the lead near livestock). He was approached by two adults who fussed him which he reacted to by wagging half his backside off. One took him off me (which he wasn't hugely impressed with he's a bit keen on me). He didn't approach anyone, didn't drool on anyone & didn't raid any picknics. But I suspect if a few on this thread were present they would still have found something to complain about.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 16:35:45

Personally I think terrified children can react any way they wish,condemning natural instinct in a fear situation is a sure fire way to screw a kid up.

There are some really strange priorities on this thread.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 16:39:04

Oh and Saintly glad your dog was on the lead,sure you've seen all the sheep worrying signs with ripped to shred sheep pics.Clearly many don't(sure the sheep are to blame some how).

We have ranger friends who think dog owners are a major pita on moorland too and full of their dog's entitlement.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 16:43:54

LittleDog hates children. Because he is so very tiny, and odd looking in a cute sort of way, people treat him like a toy. I've seen him scooped up by complete strangers for a cuddle, without even asking me if its ok. And they get right in his face, adults are actually worse than children for this. He still has teeth, you know, even if they are wonky and don't meet properly (he can't actually bite, but they don't know that).

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 16:47:51

It's a learned fear, not a natural fear instinct. People aren't born frightened of dogs, or cats, or even spiders and snakes.

Teaching your child that its ok to be frightened in safe situations is a much easier way to fuck them up. Why not teach them how to react in a safe way, that would be far more sensible and instructive.

No mrbuttercat I want my children to be able to access life. My frightened child stopped being invited to friend's houses because of his over reaction to friendly safe dogs. That needed sorting or he was going to have a very lonely few years. He didn't need to learn to live them, but I've needed to learn to live with them. In fact he adores dogs now & sneaks our retriever into his bed so successfully cured of his fear

Likewise when ds1 broke a window with his head because he couldn't cope with someone sitting in their car outside his house I felt he needed to learn to deal with people sitting in their cars rather than try and police behaving in a reasonable way on a free street.

Personally I think not working to help your child overcome a fear they have to deal with daily to be bizarre. Teaching then how to behave around and not fear friendly dogs doesn't mean that you condone aggressive dogs with irresponsible owners - luckily they are in the minority. Teaching a child to deal with something which they will come across every day seems a better response to me than demanding the world is freed from dogs (especially when you live in Devon fgs) or people sitting in cars or light aircraft or whatever it is you/your child fears.

Of course I could have stamped my feet and said that ds2 was scared and should be allowed to do what he wanted when scared. But he would have carried on not being invited to his friend's houses- which would have been rather unfair of me I think.

Mrbuttercat you sound quite insane. I have said I keep my dog on the lead on moorland because he has nir had enough exposure to sheep to be safe with them (or ponies).Why the ranting about ripped to shreds sheep? I used to work on a sheep farm, I know about sheep.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thinking about it Ds2 only has one friend without a dog, and he's more of a mate than a close friend so erm l think we owed it to him to sort out his fear really. All the families we meet up with regularly have dogs. So he really would have been suffering if it had continued.

It is hard beer - feel free to tell her about ds2. By age 8 he couldn't be in the same room as a dog without bursting into tears and shaking. Out and about he would panic & run off screaming (cue dogs chasing him - it was a real vicious circle).

A year later he was a dog fanatic. He adores dogs & seems to have a real way with them. So it is possible to overcome that fear. I thought we never would. Actually he's written in his year 6 yearbook about wanting to have a dog when he's an adult (a chow chow FFS - is that what it's called? I had to look it up!)

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ilovemyrabbits Sun 21-Jul-13 17:21:24

Anyone who leaves a soiled nappy in a public area should be shot. No question. Dog owners who don't scoop up or don't govern their dogs, similarly so. However, if said dog owner is off the beaten track and is trying their best with their dog and apologises if it fucks up, then it's no different to having a child who's playing up. It happens. If the responsible adult shows themselves to be responsible, fair enough. Otherwise, they should be barracked until they comply with the rules of reason.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 18:40:42

Sarah when you've had a child bitten by a dog through no fault of it's own in front of his siblings,taken to A and E vomiting with shock then come back and lecture me.

He learnt it by coming face to face with reality- dogs bite and even aledged nice ones can turn.

All 3 are now frightened of dogs and there is nothing you or I can do about it.I'm not making DS or his siblings feel crap for something he didn't deserve and for reacting or feeling how they feel.

Dealing with their fear doesn't mean making them feel crap. Ds2 was terrified of water after someone (who should have known better) threw him into the deep end of a pool. His fear was understandable. But it still needed dealing with because he was missing out socially.

He's also scared of horses after hearing about his brother being kicked by one - but he doesn't need to be around horses so I haven't done a great deal about it. Ds3 who was kicked isn't particularly scared of horses although he is more cautious than he was. Had he become scared of them he would either have had to deal with that or give up riding.

Ds1 was terrified of light aircraft because the noise was physically painful to him (I assume from the reaction) but he still had to learn to deal with it.

Being scared of dogs after being bitten by one is understandable but given that dogs are everywhere it's in the child's interest to not let it progress into an out & our phobia.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 18:52:44

I was bitten by my neighbour's collie when I was 8. They had to prise his jaws open to get him off me, and I am scarred from it. Their dog went for our dog, I was simply unfortunate to be in the way.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 18:56:04

Oh and there is plenty you can do about it. You can expose him to well behaved dogs, and keep doing it until he realises that he doesn't need to be afraid. Or, the absolute best thing you could do, circumstances permitting, is to get a puppy. The worst thing you can do for him is to keep avoiding because every time you do that you are reinforcing his fear.

curlew Sun 21-Jul-13 19:14:25

Or people with dogs can make sure that their dogs never approach anyone unless they are sure they want to be approached. Works both ways!

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 19:18:08

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on that one. But surely it's better for the child to be helped to overcome its fear? I have two very allergic DDs, one of whom was severely needle phobic. She's not anymore because I did something about it, rather than avoiding it.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 19:19:19

Dur, meant to say, they both carry Epi-pens.

baskingseals Sun 21-Jul-13 19:22:24

Mrbuttercat, my dd is facially scarred from a dog bite. So can I lecture you.

baskingseals Sun 21-Jul-13 19:26:39

Through no fault of her own, she was 20 months old and with a registered childminder when she was bitten. It was awful and something I think about every day, I see her scar, every day. It has left me with issues over leaving my dc.

Dd, she has no issues, well not over dogs anyway. I have a big dog that I adore, but didn't have a dog at the time she was bitten, but she still has no fear of dogs at all.

Her scar will need plastic surgery at some point.

MrButtercat - as SarahStratton says, helping a child to overcome,their fears, whatever they may be, absolutely does NOT mean making that child feel like crap, and I am somewhat bemused that you would think so. On the contrary, I think that overcoming a fear would be an immensely empowering thing - for a child or an adult - and would also make the world a better place for that child.

I am not saying that because I think all children should enjoy playing with dogs (though I do believe that dogs can bring a whole lot of fun and joy to life), but because they wouldn't be worrying and stressing about dogs when out and about - it must be horrible to be worrying about whether there is a dog round the next corner or whether that dog over there is going to rush over and hurt you.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 19:38:49

Done all that,even with the help of a vet,pretty much every time he has made small progress something happens such as out of control dogs on a beach.Last weekend a dog went for my ankles,thankfully protected by a beach bag.

We're not attempting anymore.There are only so many times you can tell a child dogs are fine and have them looking at you with mistrust.

I just want them to keep out of our space and we'll happily keep out of theirs.

josephinebruce Sun 21-Jul-13 19:41:48

Reading some of the posts on this thread just reminds me why I prefer my dog to most humans!!

I rarely let him off the lead though, but when I do he just walks beside me.

He ignores most children because he's never really been around them, but if one wants to say hello and their parents are ok with it, I let them pat him on the head - but that's all.

Really small children scare him because they move fast and flail around. One hit him once - the parent was several metres away and my puppy was doing nothing but sitting there ....and yet it was my dog's fault? And yes, I did see it, yes, I was there and yes, I did tell the child off - only to be given a mouthful of abuse from the child's parent.....

Yes it has been wonderful to see ds 2 go from terrified to adoring dogs. And I loved seeing him ducking his friends and being ducked underwater in the sea last week. Very different from the child who this time last week say crying on the side of a swimming pool last year (shallow end).

Curlew - it's all very well saying dogs shouldn't approach strangers - I agree. But in ds2's case all his friends (except one) have dogs so being terrified was restricting his life enormously. Whether or not dogs approached him out and about was neither here nor there really. I was more concerned that he wasn't being invited back to people's houses because the parents couldn't deal with the gibbering crying child when he was faced by their friendly bonkers slobbery hound (fair enough - I couldn't have a dog terrified child here now either - likewise when we advertise to employ people I always make it clear we have a friendly but bouncy dog)

holidaysarenice Sun 21-Jul-13 19:44:09

A water pistol squirted striaght at the owners face usual sorts the problem.

Let your dog annoy me, ill annoy you.

Last year he didn't get over his swimming fear in a week!

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 19:48:59

Yep, I've had similar, including an arsey parent because LittleDog dared growl at the out of control, strange child who thought it would be ok to run after him, and pick him up, hurting him in the process. He really is tiny, and a bit fragile. Easy to hurt, poor thing.

MrB, I can't see how a vet could help, but spending time with a friend who has a well behaved dog would, as would asking if you could sit in on some dog training classes. Otherwise, your poor DS is going to find it really interferes with his social life.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 19:52:59

A water pistol squirted striaght at the owners face usual sorts the problem.

You do that to me, and I'll have you done for assault. What a bloody stupid reaction.

MrButtercat Sun 21-Jul-13 19:56:51

Said vet had well behaved dogs.It didn't work and forcing him makes it worse thanks.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 20:01:49

But you do need to deal with it, like DD2 had to deal with her phobia, and sooner rather than later. What will he do when he wants to go round a friend's house, and they have dogs? Or when he's old enough to go out on his own, and comes face to face with dogs? I do feel for you, I know how awful it was for DD, but we can't let it interfere with their lives, for their sakes. sad

Dackyduddles Sun 21-Jul-13 20:04:42

Cor.... You wouldn't like me. I ride horses. They shit wee gallop and play with footballs and swim.

We aren't saying force him, MrButtercat - but there are lots of dogs in the world (plus the fear of potential dogs round every corner) so I do not understand why you would give up on helping your child overcome the fear. Surely fear like this is very debilitating and limits his enjoyment of life - is worse in the long run than the stress of dealing with the fear?

It sounds as if it needs to be a very slow and gentle process for your child, and maybe you could find better help than the vet. To my mind, a vet is going to be someone who loves animals and is therefore not likely to understand, on a deep level, a fear of any animal, and is unlikely to have studies the psychology of phobias - you need a psychologist, maybe, rather than a vet.

McNewPants2013 Sun 21-Jul-13 20:11:53

I rarely go to the beach, this year I have been twice.

I don't see why local people should be banned from taking thier dogs to the beach which they use a far more than I do.

I do think that all owner should have pet insurance.

If licence fees was introduced how would it be policed.

Going to upload a pic to my profile of my previously terrified of dogs ds2 (and no dogs and boys wearing shoes aren't really allowed on the sofa - not even grotty sofas, but I took a photo before telling the pair of them to behave...)

A year before that photo was taken ds2 couldn't be in the same room as a dog - he was terrified.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 20:16:14

According to one poster, upthread (please don't ask me who, I cba to find the post), dogs should have their future license number prominently displayed. So, number plates for dogs then? grin

Bakingtins Sun 21-Jul-13 20:16:52

Plenty of beaches that don't allow dogs in the summer months if you don't like them. YABU.

Oh I give up, I have made the photo tiny and still mumsnet won't upload it. Anyway it's a sweet photo of ex-terrified child cuddled up to the dog (retriever) on the sofa.

SarahAndFuck Sun 21-Jul-13 20:39:15

SarahStratton we also have a little dog who people swoop on and pick up for a cuddle, even while he's on the lead. They seem to come from nowhere to pick him up, usually saying something about "Look! It's the smallest dog in the world!"

He is friendly, but he's also very young and still in training, and they don't know him. He's a JRT and a lot of people have taken pains to tell us how 'nasty' JRT's are. He's sociable, but he can still be frightened or hurt. He's actually very tolerant, enjoys being petted and has never growled or snapped at anyone.

I've also been bitten by a dog when I was a child. It was a friends dog, with an ear condition that had been neglected and not treated. Dog was in pain and my friend touched his ears, he jumped forward and bit me.

We've also been out with the dogs at a national trust property which welcomes them. It's basically a massive forest with fields and a lake. It's filled with dog walkers and mountain bikers. We went for lunch and chose to sit on a wall far away from the main cafe and picnic area to keep the dogs away from people who might not like them, especially while they were eating.

A family walked the length of a field to come and sit beside us and then complain loudly that we had a dog with us, their son was frightened of them and we should move away as it wasn't the sort of place to bring a dog. It's exactly the sort of place to bring a dog. And they had no need to come near us, there were plenty of tables, benches and other bits of wall much closer to the cafe and away from dogs.

I'm not sure what the point of the thread is really. The OP went to a dog friendly beach that is advertised as a dog friendly beach, lives locally to it and so must know it is a dog friendly beach and saw some inconsiderate people, which you get everywhere. And yes, they give a bad name to the good owners and good dogs, but calling for all dogs to be banned from the beach is not the answer.

No more so than calling for all people to be banned from the beach because some people litter it. I don't want to see people leave dog poo on the beach any more than I want them to leave bottles, cans, cigarette ends, plastic bags, dirty nappies, fast food wrappers and everything else that people leave on beaches. Some of which is just as bad and just as dangerous as dog poo.

Report the owners who are not cleaning up after their dogs. Take a sneaky photo if you can, or give a description. That's what I've done to a repeat offender (owner, not dog) I've seen on our street several times now. She has a German Shepherd dog she never cleans up after and after third time I confronted her and told her I was going to report her if I saw her again. And I have reported her.

But it doesn't mean the other dog owners who walk down our street and do clean up should be banned from it, it just means this one lazy, irresponsible madam needs to up her game and take care of her dog and it's mess.

I'd like to see more bins and more wardens issuing fines to people who are irresponsible, both with dogs and litter.

Awks Sun 21-Jul-13 20:42:01

You only go to beaches on "rare days out" and probably leave all your dirty litter behind I go every day with my dog.

SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit Sun 21-Jul-13 20:42:27

I do 'Like' your post, Sarah. Full of common sense.

Me too, Sarah. Applause, SarahandFuck.

MrsDeVere Mon 22-Jul-13 14:08:17

A boy ran into the road rather than walk past my two small dogs who were on a lead. Its not the first time I have seen that. He was alone but i have seen kids ushered into the road by their parents ffs.

If my child was so frightened that he was willing to risk his life rather than be anywhere near a dog I would have to do something about it.

You just have to do whatever it takes or you are putting your child at huge risk.

That is not the same as me thinking it is the parent's fault (or the child's) they are scared. Its being realistic.

Dogs are everywhere and they always will be. Its like not bothering to teach your child how to cross the road safely because you disapprove of cars.

If my child had a phobia of sharks or parrots I could get away with perhaps not doing anything about it. But dogs, birds, buttons, trainers....

Its awful to see a child terrified of dogs. Its not the same as them not liking them. Not everyone has to like dogs.

Absolutely spot on, MrsDeVere.

MrButtercat - if your child had a fear of water, would you abandon your attempts to help them overcome that fear and learn to swim? Or would you, rightly, think that this is a safety issue, and carry on until you had found something that worked for them, because that would be better than your child drowning?

What if you never tackle your child's fear of dogs, and they panic one day, run out into the road and are hit by a car? That is not catastrophising to scare you - MrsDeVere saw a child run into the road because they were scared of her dog - it was just good luck that there was no car coming past at the time.

As I said earlier, I think that a vet might not be the best person to tackle fear of dogs, because it is unlikely that they will have received the neccessary psychological training to deal with phobias (I doubt that is part of veterinary training), and as it si very likely that they love animals they may well struggle to understand a child who fears them.

I think you should find someone who deals with childrens' phobias, and get their help with this. It makes sense to help your child overcome this fear (not to make them feel crap, or to force them to do something - but to help them) because it would remove a major source of stress and distress from their life.

GummyLopes Mon 22-Jul-13 15:58:45

Dogs are alive and I think all alive animals should be able to run about and enjoy themselves the same as anyone else. Why should human's have the final say-so?

possum18 Tue 23-Jul-13 01:20:32

My Local beach has certain months (mainly summer) where dog and bicycle use is restricted to early morning and late afternoon - evening and this seems to work well. Some people choose to ignore but this is generally not an issue as long as owners are responsible and have control over their pets! If you can't control your doggies, put them on a lead

SillyTilly123 Tue 23-Jul-13 17:44:05

I was walking my dog in a small forest type place today, very rarely see anyone there, and Tilly was doing her usual running ahead to explore then coming back. Anyhow I heard a little scream so I called her back, to which she came and there was a family there (about 4 adults,2kids- I didnt really look was trying to get tilly past them on her lead as the dad had shooed her away quite aggressivly so she was scared) and the 2 kids were practically shivering with fear (tilly had only ran past them, not bothering them) Its no way for the poor kids to live.

SillyTilly123 Tue 23-Jul-13 17:46:45

Oh and I didnt know they were ahead as the path is windy.

Scruffey Tue 23-Jul-13 17:50:32

I only use beaches where dogs are banned.

The last time I used one where they weren't banned, I walked in bare feet up to the sea to paddle and someone had let their dog shit right there. It was foul, I felt sick.

I love dogs but some owners don't realise they are ruining parks and beaches for thousands of people. I got a slide and swing set for my garden as the lovely local park has been shat all over. I never go there now.

MrsDeVere Tue 23-Jul-13 18:10:24

dogs make a very small part of the crap (literal or otherwise) that is one our beaches and in our parks.

I don't know about other dog walkers but I suspect they do the same as I and pick up rubbish other people have left on their daily walks.

I can't walk past a bottle or can on a beach so I put it in a bag and bin it on my way home.

Dog crap is vile and can be highly dangerous but so are condoms, galss bottles, jagged tins and old bonfires and you are more likely to step on one one of them on a beach IME.

stickingattwo Tue 23-Jul-13 20:03:01

People complaining about dogs on beaches. Why?

LupeVelez Wed 24-Jul-13 17:18:14

This world is here for everyone, isn't it? Why should people have priority over other animals who mights also want to enjoy being alive?

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