How can people be late everytime?

(136 Posts)
LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 13:40:09

AIBU to be really annoyed that my friend is literally NEVER on time?It is not even just five minutes,its usually at least an hour!

DeepPurple Fri 19-Jul-13 13:40:59

I have a friend like that. I tell her 30 mins before the actual meeting time just so I'm not waiting too long!

WafflyVersatile Fri 19-Jul-13 13:43:23

Because her time is more important than yours.

I have a friend who is the same.

weisswusrt Fri 19-Jul-13 13:44:34

I have a friend like this. I make her pick me up from my home now if we are to meet/do anything together. I don't even put my shoes on or look for my handbag until she arrives.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 13:47:38

Aaaaaargh its really making me mad.
Ive got a child here who has been excited all day to go out.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 13:48:22

Theres one thing messing me about,but my kid?uh oh no way.

Fraxinus Fri 19-Jul-13 13:50:13

Does she show up every time?

The worst is when people let you know an hour after they are due that they are not coming at all.

TuttiFrutti Fri 19-Jul-13 13:52:23

They are only late when it has no consequences for them, as they see it. Have they ever missed a plane? Probably not. They CAN be on time when they have to be, but as a previous poster has said, they don't see your time as important.

Fraxinus Fri 19-Jul-13 13:53:11

Sometimes I think it is not conscious decision to waste your time as she feels you are worth less than her. It is probably often a case of not being organised, focussed or methodical about getting ready, and having a poor concept of how long things really take.

I did some training about neurological development, and if someone is traumatised in childhood, apparently on on the things that can be diminished in their neurology is an accurate awareness of time.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 13:54:44

Isnt that really not nice though?especially when she always picks the time to suit her.summats got to be said,ill make a jokey dig.its usually her doing her friggin hair.fgs.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 13:55:47

My mate is a chartered pyschologist.im hoping she has some sense of organisation!

JRmumma Fri 19-Jul-13 14:01:09

This drives me mad. If you have to be ready at x time, and you know it takes you 45 mins to get ready, then star getting ready 45 mins before x time! Its not rocket science!

Ok if you have a very young child it may not be that straight forward, but then allow more time to get ready at least!

I have a friend who has never been ready when she is supposed to be and thinks that 'oh i got distracted and ended up cleaning the bathroom' is a reasonable excuse.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 14:04:52

Oh no theyre childless,i am the one who is always,ready and explaining why they cant goto the activity and i got more than me to deal with.

aquashiv Fri 19-Jul-13 14:09:47

Could be many things she might be testing you to check you are laid back enough to go with this. She could be someone who hates the structure of being on time. She might be just disorganised. SHe might try to do too much at the last minute. She might just be one who gets away with it and is never challenged so to her its a non issue.
What does she way when you ask her why she does it?
I have a friend like that if she isn't there I go though. So she is now early unless if there is children involved then waits are to be expected.

WithaPickleOnTop Fri 19-Jul-13 14:13:41

I also had a friend like this.
Yet on the odd occasion that they were on time, if I was even a minute late, they would blow their top.

itsallshitandmoreshit Fri 19-Jul-13 14:21:46

It's just complete lack of respect for you and a sense that she and her time are more important than you.

Late people are just more selfish than 'average' people.

It's not normal to hurt someone by letting them down all the time.

I have given up on late people. I maintained friendships with these people in my 20's and30's but now I'm in my 40's I don't bother.

Longdistance Fri 19-Jul-13 14:26:07

I have a married couple friend like this.

Like pp we say a time 30 minutes before we should, so to me they're not late. And we can be 'late' iygwim.

Weirdly enough, we went to Dublin for a short break, and flew there. Funnily enough, they weren't late.

MerylStrop Fri 19-Jul-13 14:36:06

DH is like this.
Drives me mental.
Problem boils down to being so optimistic about what can be achieved in the time available that he thinks he can bend the laws of physics
Just tell him he has to be somewhere an hour in advance and remind him that being late is not a quirky and endearing thing
If someone was half an hour late without apology I would assume they were not coming and get on with my day

my dh is always always fecking late. drives me absolutely barmey! i tried putting his watch, his alarm clock and the kitchen clock 10 mins forward to see if it helped... but nope... he noticed the next day and put them all "correct"

im the type that is always 5-10 mins early which i know doesnt help either confused

twistyfeet Fri 19-Jul-13 14:54:32

I have several friends like this. I now no longer tell dd (who has ASD so is in total meltdown by the time they do arrive) that they are coming because they will often be several HOURS late.
Its just rude. One friend I eventually ditched.

MrsMook Fri 19-Jul-13 15:00:26

I tend to be late- it's a long running family trait. People tend to run to a consistent level of lateness, and the part that gets me every time is the getting out of the house bit. What should be 5 mins seems to be at least 15mins of rounding up things like glasses, nappies and infants. Part of it is a fear of being early and intruding on someone getting ready or havining an emergency tidy-up. My BiL tends to run early and its a right PITA as you're sweaty and messy from cleaning, still putting the vacuum away or getting changed as he turns up. At least if you know someone is consistently late you've got time to relax once you're ready (assuming you weren't heading on to somewhere for a specific time).

I try and factor in contingency time- I'm more successful the longer the distance is. I tend to ring once I'm in the car to avoid someone lurking and waiting.

Ginocchio Fri 19-Jul-13 15:16:28

I'm slightly guilty of this. I now have an understanding with a friend that it's either eg 3pm 'their' time, or 3pm 'my' time (ie 3.20...)

Drquin Fri 19-Jul-13 16:25:00

I think it's the late "every time" which gets me wound up!
I get there'll always be the odd last minute crisis or traffic jam or whatever .... But when its the same people who always have the crisis, yet others would appear to sail through life with no apparent lost keys / goldfish which needs feeding etc, it does get a bit wearing.
I've got to admit I'm in the camp of believing it suggests you just don't value my time ..... So there's some friends I've dropped over the years (although in fairness, there'd be other reasons as no-one is perfect!) and others who I will never arrange to meet on a street corner! You can pick me up, and at least if you're late I can finish my own bottle of wine ...

If it wouldn't out me, I'd tell you the story of being late for a funeral .... ;-)

JRmumma Fri 19-Jul-13 16:28:01

Meryl, i love that, bending the laws of physics. Why are some people so unrealistic about how long things take?

MrsMook if you know it us gonna take 15 mins to get out the door and not 5, then factor 15 mins in!! You have just epitomised the difference between someone who is punctual, and someone who isn't. Im not having a go at you, but that's exactly the kind of thing that would make me angry if used as an excuse.

greeneyed Fri 19-Jul-13 16:36:20

Everyone is different my DSIS is like this and whilst annoying I know it's just the way she is. She never factors in time for the inevitable things that slow you up, is always surprised how long things take and incredibly disorganised (washing last minute, no sterilised bottles, no petrol in car etc). It's always this way so I just factor it in now and manage my son's expectations by not giving him a specific time or telling him a later time for their arrival, if important I always phone ahead an hour or so beforehand to gee her along.

Peoples brains are wired differently and neurotransmitters play a part in motivation, procrastination etc.

softlysoftly Fri 19-Jul-13 16:47:58

I am consistently late, usually between 10-15m.

I am not selfish.

I HAVE missed trains, a plane once, appointments and regularly work. Honestly fucks me right off.

I do stuff like get up extra early, get stuff ready the night before, get kids fully ready before breakfast etc etc and yet a I am always at preschool 9.05/9.15 but our Friday activity even though it's later and I have exactly the same waffle up time/routine add a preschool day I turn up between 10.35-10-45.
If someone could explain to me why this happens I would be very greatful. It's not nice being the "late" "disorganised" friend who gets digs all the time. While family is the same.

An hour is not fair though.

EBearhug Fri 19-Jul-13 16:49:57

My father was pretty even-tempered, and didn't often get angry. But his sister was always, always late for family gatherings, and that could really set him off. (Still does it, she was late to the last funeral we were at, as well.)

As a result, I am nearly always on time for everything, and I also get annoyed with people who don't manage it, and have been known to demand apologies at work. If you've got a 10am meeting, why would you wait till 1 minute before to fit in everything from popping to the loo and making a cup of coffee before sauntering along to the meeting room? I find it so rude that people can be so inconsiderate of other people's time like that. I know some things will always get in the way - really bad traffic problems, or major customer-facing problems at work or so on, but it's not usually things like that, it's just they can't be bothered to make a bit more effort.

The one which really, really annoys me is a manager who cancels meetings last minute, or starts them up to 20 minutes late and so on. And yet, when it was a meeting including his manager as well, he was absolutely on time. It just proves he can do it, and the rest of the time is just bullying and manipulative, because they're people who aren't worthy of him (in his view. Most people on this planet are worth more than him.)

softlysoftly Fri 19-Jul-13 16:50:58

Can't type either clearly

RussiansOnTheSpree Fri 19-Jul-13 16:51:11

Perhaps your friend is dyspraxic.

5Foot5 Fri 19-Jul-13 16:51:56

How can people be late every time

One reason only - selfish, inconsiderate and considers her time more important so it doesn't matter if you are waiting around for her.

Do you have to wait for her before starting whatever activity you have planned? Can you not just go ahead without her and then tell her that you got fed up of waiting. In fact, why not just tell her straight anyway - not in a jokey way either so she can say "Oh what am I like like" but more directly that it really pisses you off and can she make more effort to stick to the arrangements.

JRmumma Fri 19-Jul-13 16:56:21

I wouldn't really consider 10 minutes as late, unless it was for school or an appointment etc, something with an actual start time, in which case you need to aim to be there 20 mins early to ensure you are there in plenty of time.

If you are consistently late for things and want to know how to rectify this, then im afraid the answer is simple. Ensure you aren't late. If the only way yo do this is to try and be 30 mins early, and you end up having to hang around coz you are a bit early at least it is your time you are wasting and not someone elses. Isn't that fair if you are the one with the time keeping problem?

thelma3333 Fri 19-Jul-13 17:01:07

softlysoftly i'm also one of those '10 mins late people.' Nothing to do with being selfish or thinking that other people's time is less important. I have very bad time management, lose track of time, procrastinate, don't factor in the unexpected. Have even been on a time management course !
Strangely, i have improved since having kids.
OP i think maybe you should mention it to friend, or ask her to meet you 1 hour earlier but not be ready until time you think she is going to have to turn up. I know you shouldn't have to do this, and must be very frustrating for you.
Us laties also don't get bothered when other people are late (yes that happens to me aswell), so maybe we've just got a more relaxed approach to time. ie. if someone says to me 10am, i think they'll turn up 10am - 10.30am

MerylStrop Fri 19-Jul-13 17:10:23

Nah, ten minutes late is still late, and if it is ten minutes every time it is cumulatively irritating.
Especially for the waitee who usually also hates getting up on time and also had to deal with all that stuff it.

JRmumma Fri 19-Jul-13 17:10:58

thelma surely you don't think its acceptable to be 30 mins late if you are meeting a friend say in a pub and she would be there on her own for 30 mins in that case?

If you are going to someone's house then ok, if they say come over at 10 then maybe fine ( although id expect notice that you were going to be that late) but not if it leaves someone wasting 30 mins of their day for no other reason than you have a more relaxed attitude to time keeping?!

ElephantsAndMiasmas Fri 19-Jul-13 17:13:26

It's not thinking her time is more important than yours, necessarily. I know because I am like this and I'm just as late (actually, far later) for appointments with myself, IYSWIM. So if I want to go and see an exhibition, by the time I get there I'll only have allowed myself 10 minutes rather than the hour I wanted.

For me it's partly this: "being so optimistic about what can be achieved in the time available that he thinks he can bend the laws of physics". As someone else said, the longer the journy I have to take, the more contingency I factor in, the more on time I am. I would arrive literally on the hour for an event 6 hours away, while I would easily be 25 minutes late for something round the corner. Something's very wrong in my conception of time. It's as if I think the moment I am standing in my house with my shoes on, is the same moment I will arrive at my destination. Faffing and travel time is as nothing. It's embarrasing blush

changeling1234 Fri 19-Jul-13 17:14:04

I don't understand how people are late all the time. If you know it's going to take you half an hour to get ready, 10 minutes to drive to wherever, then another 5 minutes to walk to the restaurant or whatever, then add the minutes together and work backwards from the time you planned to meet.

So, meeting a friend at 10 o'clock means leaving the house at 9.15. I would allow an extra 5 mins for faffing around and an extra 5 mins to find a parking space, so would leave at 9.05.

If you're early, just wait in the car or walk round for a bit.

There's no excuse in saying "my whole family is like it" or "I just can't do it". Of course you can. It really is just lack of planning and no empathy for the friend who's sitting there like a lemon having to wait for YOU.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Fri 19-Jul-13 17:14:39

yes it's totally unacceptable for a "latey" to be critical of other people's timekeeping. If I'm left waiting I just think it's karma.

awaynboilyurheid Fri 19-Jul-13 17:36:23

I too can be guilty of this but have to try really hard not to think I can just fit another job in before I go or as someone on here said try to bend the laws of physics ! its not that we are selfish getting angry won't work, its simply we find it really hard to judge time I always think i could just put on a wash or tidy up or it will only take me x amount to get ready but it always taks longer finally I recognise this ! so now I chop off a half hour as my cut off time and that has helped or friends and family do this too

awaynboilyurheid Fri 19-Jul-13 17:42:15

Oh and I never criticise anyone for being late I'm ususually delighted as it makes me look early

softlysoftly Fri 19-Jul-13 17:43:15

It's NOT a lack of planning! For example I lay the kids clothes out the night before;, half pack a picnic, get the up at a designated time and do final things when they are having breakfast, have 5 minutes to get out the door before the set off time that will get me there on time.

Then something happens, I get to the car and dd1 forgot her sunglasses or dd2 does a huge poo or I have the wrong bag or I remember I need money. Or nothing really happens and I'm still 5 - 10 minutes late. Its like my brain refuses to allow me to be on time.

I've even been late when I've been early. Get to a place early, wait in car, faff about with mn or emails or snooze look at the clock and I'm flipping late again. angry

DiseasesOfTheSheep Fri 19-Jul-13 17:56:00

I'm almost always 5-10 minutes late... Normally because I attempt to do too many things in too short a space of time - sort of a subconscious desire to please everyone, and just end up charging around like a loon, running late.

I also am cursed with inevitable bad traffic / red lights -I can do the same journey without a deadline and it takes 5 minutes, and then at the same time the following day with a deadline and it takes 20. Same for trains and virtually everything else in my life... Logically I know everyone has to deal with traffic / tractors in the road / sheep crossing / kamikaze deer / the roadworks of doom, but sometimes I swear they're out to get me!

JRmumma Fri 19-Jul-13 17:59:33

Don't just leave yourself 5 mins then softly! You know you need contingency time so factor it in!

Why would you not do this if you are only leaving enough time to be exactly on time?

Latey's and non-latey's will never understand each other i fear.

miffybun73 Fri 19-Jul-13 18:01:35

I find this intolerable and one of the rudest things that someone could do.

Grrrrrr.

Eraser Fri 19-Jul-13 18:03:32

I cannot stand being late to the point that I'd rather get somewhere 30 mins earlier and stand around like a pleb then be 5 mins late.

ComtessedeFrouFrou Fri 19-Jul-13 18:12:49

Softly in te nicest possible way, the last two examples of your sentence are why you are late (the first two I can excuse):

dd1 forgot her sunglasses or dd2 does a huge poo or I have the wrong bag or I remember I need money

You may have planned, but If you've got he wrong bag or you only just remember you need money as you're leaving the house you haven't planned enough.

CrapBag Fri 19-Jul-13 18:22:49

YAsoooooooooNBU!!!

This drives me up the absolute fecking wall.

I have a friend who is always late. Before she could drive she had the excuse that she had to rely on public transport. Now she can, she will still be late, still have a 'valid' excuse though. I think piss poor time management actually. I made a joke once when she turned up somewhere bang on time and she got so shitty about it. But then when she is on time or almost, she will always draw attention to it. Mainly people notice that she is so late because she points it out, but heaven forbid if you do! Recently she phoned me to ask if we could delay something by 15 minutes because she had something to finish. I said ok because I knew a couple of others had already said they couldn't be there for the time, this person was still there after them and 25 minutes after her later time that she had asked for. I will drop if she carries on tbh. She does act like she is the only person who is ever busy and it fucks me off.

Someone else I knew who is flakey and late always, made me an hour and half late for my own big birthday night out. I was the last to arrive because of her and sat around at home ready for more than an hour because she can't get her fucking act together. She also held up 11 of us at a meal before for an hour. She has been ditched.

fatfingers Fri 19-Jul-13 18:27:09

"If you're early, just wait in the car or walk round for a bit."

I absolutely dread having to do that. I am a 10 minute late person and I think part of it is the fear of being early and having to wait around, etc. I aim to be bang on time rather than early. I don't even really class 10 minutes as late tbh and I'm with the poster who said a 10am meet up would mean somewhere between 10am and 10.30am. Wouldn't bother me if I was waiting on my own.

CrapBag Fri 19-Jul-13 18:27:42

"There's no excuse in saying "my whole family is like it" or "I just can't do it". Of course you can. It really is just lack of planning and no empathy for the friend who's sitting there like a lemon having to wait for YOU."

^^This. softly you aren't factoring in extra time for the faff that goes on. And how is it that everytime you go out something needs doing?

Sorry but I don't get it, it is poor time management (and that is to all lateys) and you do have to allow an extra 10 minutes or so to get out of the door to factor in something at the very last minute, which I also don't get actually but there we go.

CrapBag Fri 19-Jul-13 18:30:08

10 minutes is late if someone says "lets meet at 10" they aren't talking about 10.10, they are talking about meeting at 10 so anything after that is late. If you want to meet 10 minutes later then say so in the beginning and stop thinking that people should just wait because you don't think 10 minutes is late (to all who think 10 minutes isn't late).

Would you honestly walk into a job interview or a hospital appointment 10 minutes late and tell them that you aren't actually late? Or turn up for work 10 minutes after your start time but tell them that you aren't late? No, you wouldn't, therefore it is late.

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 18:37:18

How long has she been your friend for?

fatfingers Fri 19-Jul-13 18:37:39

Well I regularly walk into work 10 minutes late and then I work 10 minutes over in the evening (I deliberately chose a job where I manage my own diary!). I am often 5 minutes late for appointments but I probably wouldn't be a bit late for an interview, that's true and I don't make the children late for school.

I suppose I just mean 10 minutes is not a big deal to me - is your life that regimented that you can't spare 10 minutes? It doesn't annoy me at all if I wait 10 minutes for someone to arrive (and if I genuinely didn't have time I'd just tell them I'll carry on alone). Over half an hour is taking the mick though imo.

Purple2012 Fri 19-Jul-13 18:44:27

Fatfingers. You say you don't like getting there early and then having to wait around but you dont mind waiting around if someone else is late. That doesn't make sense.

I hate lateness. I have probably been late for work 4 or 5 times in 23 years, twice because my alarm didn't go off and the others unavoidable things like car accident or car breaking down.

I have never been late when meeting a family member or friend. I am always early and factor in time to get there. Its rude to be consistently late and expect other people to hang around waiting for you. People like this can be on time for important stuff like doctors appointments. So it shows a complete disregard for the feelings of the person they are meeting.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 18:45:32

Weve been friends about six years.I dont even mind ten minutes late or if my other friends kids are makimg things a bit later I just hate that its every time for at least an hour.Thats no exaggeration.It's for no good reason,its just late for being late for picking shoes or sone dribble.i am late for nothing.

CrapBag Fri 19-Jul-13 18:47:06

limited I would actually distance myself. That is disrespectful and rude.

sudointellectual Fri 19-Jul-13 18:51:06

I have friends like this. They do it to everyone...Except they don't do it to me because I just leave the bar/serve dinner/get on the train. I don't wait for people more than once. And thus persistently late people are magically able to manage to be on time for me.

It is in their control, really.

fatfingers Fri 19-Jul-13 18:54:00

I know that is a bit weird Purple - I thought it when I typed my post out! I don't understand why but I hate the thought of being early, it makes me anxious so I tend to think "ooh I've got plenty of time, I'll just do xxx" which makes me late. I think it might be to do with not wanting to appear over keen or needy in some way.

In answer to the OP, I would not be prepared to wait an hour for someone so I would have gone without her.

MerylStrop Fri 19-Jul-13 18:56:47

10 means 10.

5 minutes late for an appointment means god knows how many other people are inconvenienced.

it's rude and inconsiderate, its not all charming and relaxed

maybe you latey types could all get some hypnotherapy or summat

fear of being early? take a book, or paper, or go for a coffee - enjoy your time, don't waste other peoples

ithaka Fri 19-Jul-13 18:57:54

My sister is always late - it is self-centred, self -importantness and nothing else. Late people are selfish, inconsiderate and sneakingly feel superior - that they are worth waiting for, or as another poster said, cooler and not as regimented as other folk.

Well, they can think what they like, because I won't have late people in my life by choice, end of. I operate a zero tolerance policy to lateness.

If I have no choice (ie family) I ensure I am never in a situation where their lateness would inconvenience me or my family. Arrange to meet them at a place and just go in and carry on until they turn up, order food etc - I will never wait for them.

If it is someone who is seldom late, of course I would wait. But then, it happens so rarely that people who are not habitually late are late, so it is easy to forgive and move on. The chronically late can jog on with their feeble self serving excuses.

Butterwouldnotmelt Fri 19-Jul-13 18:59:53

I know someone like this. She is over an hour late to meet me almost every time yet moans at me if I am 2 minutes late to meet her. I would ditch her as a friend but our DCs are close friends

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 19:01:47

How important is her friendship to you?
I have a friend who a group of us have been friends with for 25 years. She has always been a little late, nothing too major.

But lately she has been getting generally later, and not caring either.In other words, she is now going too far. We wont cut her out, as we have all be friends for so long, but one of us is going to be having friendly words with her!As she is letting other things slip as well. And we are all getting a little fed up of her rudeness.

NatashaBee Fri 19-Jul-13 19:04:28

I really struggle to understand why people can't just count backwards to work out when they need to wake up/get dressed/leave the house, as someone mentioned upthread. My brother was late for my dad's funeral and was doing his tie up in the hearse. Just how do you not at least build in contingency time for something that important?

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 19:06:24

I don't really buy the 'some people are just like that' line. As others have pointed out, these people can most likely be on time for things like flights. They just don't bother making the effort to be on time for people/things they consider less important.

OP, I'd probably have ditched her by now. Persistent lateness is bad. Persistently being an hour or more late is unforgivable IMO.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 19:07:55

She is important to me,weve grown up through our teens together and shes someone who i can talk to and would help me if i needed her( but prob be an hour late lol)it does make me think that she thinks i should wait around for her and that my time isnt important but because today my child was upset i was sooo annoyed.my friend has five kids and shes never late!annoys me more that its usually due to dolling herself up

goodasitgets Fri 19-Jul-13 19:10:11

I am always early. To the point where if I'm not at work 20 mins early people start worrying about me grin

EndoplasmicReticulum Fri 19-Jul-13 19:10:28

I do what ithaka does, if they're late they miss me. I am specifically talking about my inlaws. FIL thinks it's funny to be late for everything. Just before our wedding he told me several hilarious "when we were late for weddings" stories. I made it very clear that we would start without him if he was late for ours. He made it on time, oddly.

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 19:11:22

I'd have a word, then, if ditching her isn't an option.

'When you're late – and you're often late – it inconveniences me and upsets the DC. Next time, if you're not here by ten/fifteen [delete as you feel] minutes after we agreed, I will have gone out/be doing something else instead and not be available.'

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 19:12:21

Thing is i could just say right im not waiting but what do i do when its a thing me and her are doing and shes meeying me at my house?I would feel bad for someone to get there and noone be there.In sone ways Im quite soft and tbh since being a mum friends have disappeared through the cracks in the floorboards.

BringMeTea Fri 19-Jul-13 19:12:52

Agree with Eraser upthread. I annoy myself by being too early but that is, clearly, because i do not want to be late! Better to hang around a bit than be 'actively' late.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 19:14:00

Goodasitgets thats me too,i get questioned "where have you been?" Im still fifteen early and get asked!

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 19:14:45

Leave the house and go and do the thing on your own/with the DC. Just carry on. She can join in when she deigns to turn up. No need to feel bad that you're not there; she should feel bad for being shite late!

chipmonkey Fri 19-Jul-13 19:18:10

softly I'm a bit like you. ds1 has ADD and although I was never diagnosed, I know I would score like him on the tests!

What I have found is that you have to have lists. And I mean very mundane lists. Shoes in our house must be found the night before and put in the shoe-rack in the hall, nowhere else. We don't have that thing which allows you to remember that they were under the kitchen table. My keys must be in my bag and my bag on it's hook in the hall cupboard. We have to remember that with children there is always a delay so allow an extra five minutes per child.

We have to change our idea of "on time" to fifteen minutes earlier. So if "on time" was 9pm, it must become 8.45 instead.

Don't get sidetracked by computers and phones and use the timer on your phone to go off when you need to log off the phone and go.

MerylStrop Fri 19-Jul-13 19:21:38

meet her at the place you're headed?

text in the morning to confirm all arrangements and get her to confirm eta

assume she'll always be late and amend plans

lessonsintightropes Fri 19-Jul-13 19:22:53

I used to have a couple of friends like this. CBA with it and eventually ditched both. It's selfish and shitty behaviour to repeatedly expect someone else to wait for you. Find new friends!

HandMini Fri 19-Jul-13 19:27:56

YANBU. We've ditched friends over this. Particularly when you have children who (a) are not notorious for their own patient waiting skills and (b) need feeding/napping etc at certain times. It's a real shame, but I can't get over the feeling that someone who is late had something more important than you to deal with (usually themselves) and that's not a great sign in a friendship.

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 19:29:14

Most of time is not a DC activity and its a few drinks at the bar,i dont fancy the bar alone lol i might be sat there an hour x

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 19:29:27

It is not on that she is doing it to your child.
I think you are going to have to have a word.
If that doesnt work, I think, if your child is involved, you are going to leave home after waiting 15 minutes. And tell her, and tell your child that that is what you are going to do , and stick to it. And she will have to catch you up.

She may still be doing her hair or whatever, but at least she will know then, and to that matter, your child when she is older, that you are not prepared to be walked all over.

Does she have insecurity issues do you think, or is she a bit vain, that her hair needs to come first to her.

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 19:33:14

x post.
hmm, bar is trickier!

she is doing the hair, shoes bit for men?

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 19:33:49

Youre all right though its not an endearing quality.We already text a million times to arrange things and times.i think what ill do is say "so we are meeting at seven?its definately going to seven though isnt it?i hate waiting around for hours' is that mean ha?

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 19:42:32

I dunno who the effort is for,she is very stylish.she does have a stable partner who she adores.It a hard call that one!

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 19:46:01

If you're meeting in a bar, when you text her (as you suggest doing above), say 'Just confirming we're meeting at 7? I'll be there until 7.10/15/[whatever you think is reasonable] and if you're not there by then I'll have gone.'

Then go. Somewhere else (cinema?) or home.

yamsareyammy Fri 19-Jul-13 19:54:59

Agree with LadyClarice. Getting regularly walked all over by her is not on quite frankly.

vitaminC Fri 19-Jul-13 20:11:27

OMG, I have a friend exactly like this and she is also a registered clinical psychologist!

It's even worse when she invites us for dinner at her house, as nothing is ever ready when we arrive, so I've started turning up an hour early and with plenty of activities for the kids, so at least we eat before my kids fall asleep wink

I'm at the point now, where I tell her a time an hour early than we want her to arrive and I just get on with what I have planned if she's not there by the time I need to get on.

She turned up over an hour late to my wedding reception and then expected us to collect her from a bus-stop about 20 minutes away! We were all enjoying our meal by the time she turned up. Her choice...

DontmindifIdo Fri 19-Jul-13 20:20:21

Softly - I used to be like you but reformed! I was thinking about it earlier this week when I was going to a hair apointment. My appointment time was 3pm and it's a 10 minute drive from my house into town where my hairdressers is. Previously, I'd have aimed to leave the house at 2:50pm to get there and then been surprised I was late. However, I've since retrained myself, and realised that 10minutes drive means I have to be in the car and backing it off the drive before those 10 minutes start and I now allow 5 minutes to leave the house if it's just me (15 if DCs coming with me) to put on jacket, get my bag, find my shoes, sunglasses, car keys, anything else I want to take with me - as well as getting to the car, altering seat/mirrors from DH driving it. I also now allow 5-10 minutes to actually park the car, buy a car park ticket and walk to the hairdressers from the car park.

An appointment time at 3pm is when my appointment starts so I should really be walking into the hairdressers at 2:55pm, to allow time to go to the reception, have them take any jacket, get me a drink and settled.

As it was, i felt I was running late because I got a phone call that meant I left the house at 2:40pm. (I'd aimed for 2:30pm) It struck me that previously, I'd have called that early and if normal life got in the way, then I'd be annoyed I'd "left early" and not been on time. (Telling myself "it's only a 10 minute drive and I gave myself 20 minutes and I'm still late!" not, "the total journey from deciding to go to being in the hairdresser chair is more like 30 minutes, giving myself only 20 minutes was obviously not enough time")

I walked into the hairdressers at 2:58pm. grin

carabos Fri 19-Jul-13 20:42:09

I used to work with a woman whose idea of punctuality was so outlandish as to be positively deranged.

Example - we would have a meeting arranged with a client at 11am, half an hour's drive from the office. What she would do, would be to leave the office at 11am shock. Her reasoning (and she was completely unapologetic about this) was that she had set aside say 11am to 1pm for the meeting, so she would leave the office at 11 and be back in the office at 1 confused. She was adamant that this was logical and why would anyone do it differently?

Clients would, naturally, find it confusing when she wouldn't mention her lateness, let alone apologise, leading to many awkward moments in reception areas...

As others have said up thread, she never missed a plane...

JRmumma Fri 19-Jul-13 20:44:32

YAY!!!! Dontmind!!!! A convert!!!!

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 21:24:50

VitaminC oooh its freeky!we have matching friends.lets hook them up,they can have a who can be the latest battle!

DontmindifIdo Fri 19-Jul-13 21:33:59

Thank you JRMumma !

I can also explain the "bet they are never late for work/a plane" issue.

For work every day, I'd have 'time splits' - I didn't think each day about what I had to do to be at work for a set time, I'd think about me leaving the house and what I had to do for each task. It would be the same every morning, shower, dress, do my hair, do my make up, get my bag/shoes/coat, leave the house, walk to the train station. i'd get up at the same time every day, I'd have points to make it clear I'd spent more time on each job (eg. I had to be out of the shower by a set time. I needed to be finishing my hair and doing my makeup by the 7:30am news on the radio, when I passed a certain house on the way to the station, I'd check my watch and know if I had enough time to make the train or not, or if it was close I needed to walk faster).

However, on other days, I didn't have that, I also on other days have other things to do other than just get out of the house which would make me late.

This is why the woman up thread can be on time for pre-school at 9am but not a toddler group at 10:30am - because I bet before the 9am pre-school all you do is get everyone up, breakfasted and dressed and go (or do other regular jobs you do every day), for the 10:30am one, you add in extra jobs which I am certain if you are a regular late person, you will underestimate how long they take.

Spend some time this weekend, first write down how long you think it takes to do certain tasks like unload the dishwasher, mopping the kitchen floor, put on a wash load (don't just count the time putting the stuff in the machine and switching it on, go from standing in your kitchen, thinking about it, walking upstairs, sorting out a load, going downstairs again and then putting it in the machine), then once you've got your estimates, time yourself. Plus time yourself from the point you say "come on, let's get going" to having all DCs and yourself in the car and backing off the drive.

Learn to allow enough time for how long things actually take, not how long you'd like them to take.


Then add 10 minutes. wink

waityWaity Fri 19-Jul-13 21:45:37

Those of you who are asking why people don't just add up the time required and work backwards - Dontmindifido has described the problem - there's only any point adding up the time and working backwards if you're going to get it right. Late people often are doing that but getting it wrong. (It is an ADD type of issue - everyone is like this to some extent but the closer you are to ADD the worse you are.)

So part of the solution is if people like that totally ignore their gut instincts as to how long something will take, or just double all the amounts. If you're like this, you need to accept you can't fly by the seat of your pants and guesstimate times - you need a policy of trying to leave what will feel like quite ridiculous amounts of extra time spare to get ready for everything.

And when you do add up times add up all the things you do right down to finding keys and putting on shoes and walking to the car.

Another part of the problem is that different people really do define 'unacceptably late' differently. If you're doing the best you can, constantly aiming for 7pm and getting there usually at ten or quarter past, you know you're not just selfishly thinking the other person's time doesn't matter, you know you had 7pm as your target, and you don't really tend to think of yourself as Late late - just on the late side of 'on time'.

After all, you might say to yourself, surely the people who are selfishly, carelessly late are the ones who decide they CBA and plan not to turn up till half past - you're not doing that, you were aiming to be on time, and no one's complaining anyway so it must be OK really.

So the other part of the solution is for the person stuck waiting for the late person to politely or exasperatedly show they mind about those 10-15 minutes. If they do that, and the late person is a proper friend, then in the future they will then be much more nervous of being even ten minutes late.

Now they know that the person they're meeting doesn't see that as within the range of 'on time' but it @#!*% them off. Now their next appointment with that person feels more like catching a plane - they're anxious about being late - and that little bit of extra (and useful) social anxiety will be constantly pricking at them reminding them to get ready just like fear of missing a plane does.

Of course if you're a very disorganised person with rubbish time management there's a good chance you live in chaos and can't find things so even with techniques like doubling all time estimates, and with real fear of being late, you'll still sometimes screw things up, and even miss planes. It can be less often though!

scottishmummy Fri 19-Jul-13 21:52:33

Because they are selfish and don't value time of other person
Btw I'm a15min andim leave unless I hear compelling reason to stay
Lateness is selfish and rude.it's not an indication of hectic life,or compelling demands just means late person is a twat

DespicableYou Fri 19-Jul-13 22:00:11

*"I'm with the poster who said a 10am meet up would mean somewhere between 10am and 10.30am"*

WTAF?

REALLY??

scottishmummy Fri 19-Jul-13 22:03:51

10am meet up,means I expect to meet at 10am.if I meant 1030 I'd say 1030
I'll be there at 0945, and I think meandering alone anytime between 10-1030 is fuckwitted

DespicableYou Fri 19-Jul-13 22:04:46

Dontmindifido - I don't mind if I do talk about the fact that you're talking bollocks.

I have set tasks to do before I get out of the house every morning. IF, once I've got them all done, I find I have 15 spare minutes THEN I will take on one task, and one task only - e.g. empty dishwasher. Once that's done I CHECK THE CLOCK AGAIN - ooh, still another 10 minutes, I'll put the rubbish out.

THEN I CHECK THE CLOCK AGAIN - five minutes til I have to leave, so I call the DC to stand by the front door with their shoes on.

I do not fart around doing extra jobs when I know I'm leaving the house in 5 minutes.

scottishmummy Fri 19-Jul-13 22:09:43

If I were meeting at 7 I'd arrive 645,build in slippage for traffic etc

LimitedEditionLady Fri 19-Jul-13 22:35:14

If i was stressy and hacked off to my friend wouldnt that spoil the event even more?

iliketea Fri 19-Jul-13 22:36:04

Lateness drives me bonkers. I have a 15 minute rule - if you're not there within 15 minutes of a meeting time then I leave / change my plans to suit myself.

I try to understand why people can't be on time, but it's just plain rude. And as for being late, so you don't have to wait on your own - that's just plain selfish. It's okay for a friend to wait on their own but not you?

I have ditched a couple of friends due to lateness, IMO, being late sends a message that my time is far less inportant than the person being late, and I don't need people like that in my life.

scottishmummy Fri 19-Jul-13 22:37:44

I'd set your so called friend some boundaries eg she must be on time
If she gets hissy,thats tough titty
She isn't treating you well,but you know that already

DontmindifIdo Fri 19-Jul-13 22:47:29

Ok despicable, what makes you late for things when you have more time before you need to leave than when you have less?

Another thing I realised I did that sabotaged myself was when planning backwards when I needed to do a journey, I'd think of the shortest time I'd ever done a task and assumed that's how long it took. If I'd once managed a certain car journey in 5 minutes when all the lights were green and there was little traffic, i'd tell myself it's only 5 minutes to drive to x, yet the average journey might be more like 10 minutes. If I'd managed to do something in a quick time once, I'd assume that for every time, then be annoyed at taking so long to do it normally. Other people seem to work on the longest time it's ever taken them to do a journey/task (eg my dad is always surprised if someone can manage the dartford tunnel without a 2 hour queue, he can't quite comprehend that most times it'll be fine and therefore will arrive hideously early for anywhere that involves going via dartford)

DontmindifIdo Fri 19-Jul-13 22:54:38

Oh despicable, sorry, I thought you were getting stroppy because it was you I was talking about from earlier (just realised it was softly who coul be at preschool for 9, but on non-preschool days struggled to get to a 10:30 starting group), I was just trying to explain how that happens if you don't have a fixed idea of how long things take. If you have a spare 5minutes you could do a 5 minutes job and still be on time, but if that extra task actually takes 10 minutes, you will go from being early to late.

tallulah Fri 19-Jul-13 23:25:31

My DH is always late. He will allow 2 minutes for a local journey or 10 minutes to get to town, and no amount of explaining to him that it takes longer than that goes in.

We go to a class that starts at 6.30. At 6.10 when I say it's time to go he'll go upstairs for a shower shock. When I tell him at 5.30 to get ready I get "it's ages yet. i don't need to get ready for another hour". He expects to leave here at 6.30 and still get there on time.

waityWaity Fri 19-Jul-13 23:48:11

You don't have to be stressy and hacked off there and then, there are a few ways you can do it. You can say "look, just for the record, it really makes it difficult for me when you're late" at another time altogether. Or you can engineer an overheard conversation between you and another friend where you both bemoan people who make them wait. Or start commenting on how if you've booked to meet at 10 you won't turn up till 11 since you know she won't be there. But if you do decide to be a bit frosty there and then, even if it spoils that day a bit it could be a good investment if it gets her into better habits.

Whathaveiforgottentoday Sat 20-Jul-13 01:14:16

Being constantly late is one of the symptoms of adult ADD. Some people just find it really hard and don't do it to be rude. I get arsed off with intolerant people who clearly think they are perfect.
I don't mind friends telling me an earlier time to arrive and love being early/ on time and hate being late. Also I've been late for some very important things including missing a flight.

EBearhug Sat 20-Jul-13 02:11:47

But lately she has been getting generally later, and not caring either.In other words, she is now going too far. We wont cut her out, as we have all be friends for so long, but one of us is going to be having friendly words with her!As she is letting other things slip as well. And we are all getting a little fed up of her rudeness.

I think you're right to have words, but to me, if things have been changing from their usual pattern, and she's letting other things slip when she d, that would make me wonder if other stuff is going on.

I had a discussion with my manager recently about how demotivating work stuff has been lately, and how it's affecting me, and how I have sometimes even been a bit late (which is really unusual for me.) He said he hadn't noticed. I didn't feel it would actually do me any favours to point out the 3 days in the last fortnight when I had been late, but the fact he hasn't even noticed hasn't helped my motivation. I'm not late when I have had to be in for meetings - but he did talk to one of my colleagues about cutting his arrival time rather fine/too late, so he's not even being consistent. Or really doesn't notice me. But how people can do it when others do notice and tell them, that I can't understand.

My last boyfriend was a distance relationship, and I'd go to some effort to make sure I was at Luton on time to collect him when his flight came in, and I usually made it, though there were a handful of occasions I was a bit late, such are the joys of the M25 on a Friday evening. I'm about an hour from Luton in good traffic, up to 3 on a Friday evening... He is about 20 minutes from his local airport, yet I was always the one who had to wait for him to turn up to collect me after I'd arrived and got through passports and so on. He didn't see why he should leave a bit earlier, in case the plane was late and he had to wait. But it was okay for me to do so, after I'd had a few hours journey? He couldn't make a little extra effort to be there for me as I came through arrivals? It's one of the reasons he's ex rather than current - he just didn't seem to understand why it wound me up, not even when it was cold and wintery or anything.

CorrieDale Sat 20-Jul-13 06:57:31

I think it depends on the person as to how much it irritates me. My DSis is always late - especially for things that she hasn't organised. So she rocked up to my ds's 1st holy communion 40 mins late. Literally just in time to see him receive communion. The lunch that took place 90 mins later she was also 20 mins late for. She does it to control and because she is too arty and bohemian to be constrained by my boring social mores. Her time is just more valuable than mine. Obviously if I am ever late for one of her events she sulks. It is a control thing.

My friend otoh is always late because she is having so much fun with the person she is with - whether it's another of her many friends or her family - that she loses track of time. Despite being anally punctual myself I forgive her because a) I know what she's like and I factor it in! and b) i know she will lose track of time with me too. Essentially she is a charming and warm person who lives in the moment with the gift of making everybody she is with - even passing strangers - feel as though there is nobody she would rather be with at that time. Which is why we all forgive her. She also suffered a traumatic event in childhood (mother died unexpectedly) and so I found the neurological explanation put forward by another poster very interesting.

Nagoo Sat 20-Jul-13 07:35:59

Tallulah mine does that, then he'll wait for me to start the car before he decides he needs a poo.

sudointellectual Sat 20-Jul-13 07:44:50

Well, it's true that some people have non-neurotypical based reasons for being late, but it's still rude. I'm rude to people constantly sometimes for similarish reasons, and it's not intentional but it still happens.

I don't think I am perfect. I think that I don't wait around for late people if they do it persistently. I don't have a go at them or anything. I don't need to as it doesn't bother or affect me. I just don't participate in that behaviour. Similarly, some of my friends don't invite me to parties, only small gatherings or dinners. This is because I am terrible at parties. I can't understand new people easily so I'm rude to strangers. A lot! I don't mean to be, but it's still a reality that I am and it makes things pretty awkward sometimes. blush

I hate parties anyway, so I'm glad to not have to go. But I also respect the right of my friends to have a relationship with me that is mostly fun and not a big stress for them. So we have dinner together instead. And my late friends? They turn up on time or they just don't come to things they can't manage.

This is honestly a less stressful way to manage neurological difference in adulthood. Just do different things that suit you. There are lots of ways to hang out. I have a friend that gets lost all the time. ALL the time. She gets lost in TOILETS. So she doesn't come hiking. We go to her house. Find something that suits. I know you can't do this as a kid, you gotta go to school/college, you gotta conform. But you don't HAVE to as an adult. You can choose your battles. You can choose to live differently and be happy! grin

But expecting everyone else to bear the cost of your problem is a bad idea. Forget all the emotional stuff, just pragmatically, people have limits.

AlanMoore Sat 20-Jul-13 08:16:07

I used to be 'always late'. Then I got a job where you CANNOT be late. It was very stressful at first and I cried on the way a few times when I realised I wasn't quite going to make it but after a few weeks of really trying to work out how to get there when I wanted to get there I cracked it and started to arrive in time for a coffee and a fag first smile

Now I am a punctual type (usually!) and much less forgiving of lateness in general. It took a lot of effort for me to overcome it and I get up ridiculously early if I have to be somewhere but it's worth it to avoid the stressy panicky feeling when you realise you are already late...I've got systems that I use so I can find my stuff, I set loads of alarms for different things, none of my clocks tell the same time, I allow loads of contingency time especially with two little kids. If a system fails I go bananas but it's rare. I cried the other week when I was 10 min late to my dd's dance class! I used to feel like that all the time so it reminded me the effort is worth it.

I guess what I'm saying is I am naturally late and disorganised and untidy and find it hard to concentrate but I put a lot of effort into overcoming it because I don't want to inconvenience other people and I feel much better for it.

ithaka Sat 20-Jul-13 08:18:41

I don't buy the neurological explanation - it just sounds like another excuse for being late and late people are the queens of excuses.

Plenty of people have a whole plateful of issues and still manage to be on time. It is called consideration for others, which we should all aspire to, regardless of whatever personal burdens we carry.

Remember, the person you have left waiting will have their own demons they are contending with. Late people - it is not all about you.

Bluegrass Sat 20-Jul-13 09:14:48

Tell one of of these late people that if they arrive at 7pm they would get a cheque for a million quid but at 7.01 they wouldn't and you could be damn sure they would be there on time.

I feel the same way when I arrange to meet someone, the thought of keeping them waiting fills me with horror as it suggests i think my time is more important than theirs,so I feel very motivated to get there on the dot (usually early).

A late person doesn't seem to have that sense of motivation, if they cared enough they would move heaven and earth to get there (just like they would to pick up that cheque).

Whathaveiforgottentoday Sat 20-Jul-13 09:50:42

I should point out I am rarely late nowadays as I have many things in place to help but I still find it hard and am less likely to be late when somebody is waiting as I hate to think of them waiting. I just don't like the tone of this thread that assumed people prone to lateness are just doing it for selfish reasons.

chipmonkey Sat 20-Jul-13 09:58:47

Yeah, I don't buy neurological explanations either, ithaka. Like, those dyslexic people, they should just learn to read like everyone else.hmm

SixPackWellies Sat 20-Jul-13 10:00:52

I have a friend like this, and for her it is not being disorganised, it is because she likes to be the centre of attention and make an entrance and to have everyone notice her.

One time her parents invited my parents and I to a Sunday lunch for 13.00. We waited. And waited.

Finally at 2.30 her mother said 'Oh she's always late, let's eat'. So we ate. The starter. The main. The pudding. We had had a turn around their new garden, visited the next door farm to pat the calves and were sitting drinking coffee when she finally turned up. No apology, nothing.

That was the last time I ever agreed to an invitation anywhere with her.

Purple2012 Sat 20-Jul-13 10:20:40

It's so easy to just plan your time. I get a bus to work. There's 2 buses that would get me in on time. One would get me there with 30 mins to spare the other would give me 10 mins to spare. I get the earlier one so if it's late I still get to work on time.

MrsMook Sat 20-Jul-13 14:00:12

I've been thinking about it and why I run late. It is for social things. Routine things like work, swimming lessons I'm not bad on, and it's because there is a pattern of doing x at a certain time through the morning until I leave the house. Social things aren't routined in the same way. What I need to pack for two infants will also vary (long gone are the days of purse, phone, keys, glasses, go). I also notice that the mornings that I start getting ready late are the ones I'm more efficient with. I do build in contingency time, but if I'm too generous with that and am running early, I end up getting distracted and am at my worst. Social things are where the inconvenience of being early is greatest as my friend will be getting ready- for an appointment or transport there is a waiting area so being early is not of negative consequence. I use time at the start of the school day to do work, so the time I aim to be in for is well in advance of the time I need to be there. I am "late" by my own standards, but not by the school's.

The family thing has an influence as it's the culture I grew up with. It didn't matter how well prepared I was for getting to school when the time I got there was dictated by my mum or brother's readiness to depart. By family standards, I'm pretty good. There wasn't a social taboo attached to being late, and my friends are very similar to me so we are all patient and understanding with eachother (and often grateful as the other is often on the late side themselves)

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 14:17:55

Yes Limited, it will potentially spoil an event a couple of times.

But it depends how big a deal the current arrangement is I suppose.
As others have said, she is being rude to you.
I appreciate that you value her friendship, a lot, fair enough, but if you let the current situation continue, I suspect that ironically, it will be her that doesnt value you very much at all.

Because, in life, once a person is allowed to get away with treating another person disrespectfully, repeatedly, they dont much value them at all. Because in their heart of hearts, they come to the conclusion that the other person doesnt value themselves, so why should they.
And, ironically, she may be the one to walk away from you.

FreudiansSlipper Sat 20-Jul-13 14:27:11

i am nearly always late most if my friends are. its not about not respecting other people its a bad habit and i always feel bad

i am always trying to do too many things at once

plus i have a few friends that are very (but strangely never late when they make an effort) so us meeting up depends on me making the effort so i guess we both but up with the crap side of each other

it is something i am trying to not pass on to ds

and yes i have missed a plane blush but dragging a screaming toddler across stansted airport after being held up by ryan air for over 2 hours was the reason hmm

scottishmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 17:26:13

If you're habitually late for friends you're disrespecting them,rude and ditzy
I bet you don't have any more tasks than anyone ese,you simply can't prioritise
As you say habit you're not willing to break,feeling bad doesn't alter your behaviour

MrsRajeshKoothrappali Sat 20-Jul-13 18:28:48

MiL thinks that it's fine to be late (up to an hour and a half) if you're meeting in a restaurant or pub and the other person has access to drinks and seating.

confused

I've even heard her say' Oh, I'll have to be late to meet XXXXXX' without her even needing to be late if she just sped up a bit.

She's a ditherer though. Gets stressed if she's 'rushed' (i.e. someone wants to leave on time) and really doesn't think it's unforgivably rude to leave someone waiting for 90 mins.

hmm

scottishmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 18:34:13

I think some habitual late people think they can't help it,or it's ditzy cute
In most cases You can help it,you chose to be late.because you're thoughtless

waityWaity Sat 20-Jul-13 19:06:04

Some people may choose to be late but a lot don't. You had it right when you said people "can't prioritise".

Prioritising things, planning and organisation are brain functions that vary between people. We're not all the same at that any more than we're all identically good at reading or maths or sports that require physical coordination.

Look up the long-term effects of traumatic brain injury (ADHD has similar symptoms). Things like depression cause problems with this too.

Even those people who aren't bad enough in this area to get diagnosed with anything still vary along a spectrum. We're not all the same.

To those people who'd end a friendship over this without a backward glance - would you do the same thing if you had a friend who couldn't read as well as you or who couldn't throw a ball as well as you?

I'm not saying people should be just let off any amount of lateness, but just bear in mind that if someone does have problems in this area, they know they're not being deliberately, thoughtlessly late, and so it may genuinely not occur to them that that's how it looks to other people.

They may just see themselves as trying hard, having the right aims even if they miss by a bit, and since they know they mean well they think it's OK, unless and until someone complains.

I should say I'm talking about people who are slightly late not so many hours late with no message sent ahead that it really can only be thoughtlessness.

There are people who are so bad at this sort of thing that to succeed they might need to spend the whole day getting ready for an appointment at 4pm, just like someone with dyslexia might take ten times as long to read a news article as a good reader needs.

Since everyone has a duty to try to be on time, then the people who are really bad at organisation and planning and time management have a duty to spend that whole day getting ready, if that's what it takes, or not make the appointment in the first place.

Once you work out that you need that much time, and that's OK, that's just you, then it's easier to put it into place. But most people don't expect you to need that much preparation time and it isn't always possible to get it given competing demands of work, family, kids and so on.

So it can become a process of muddling through juggling things badly and screwing everything up, feeling embarrassed about being late often but feeling powerless to fix it - because it really is not a case of just not caring.

tallulah Sat 20-Jul-13 19:08:10

Nagoo grin we get that as well.

Bluegrass even under those circumstances DH would leave home at 7pm. Then be surprised he was late.

Alanmoore my DH doesn't get the stressy panicky feeling when we are late. I'm the one hyperventilating because I'd planned to leave 2 hours earlier.

scottishmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 19:08:46

Yes,that's a organisational,clinical reason why a minority are late
Most people do not fall into. That category.given majority arent on spectrum
The majority They fall into hapless,rude or can't be arsed category

twistyfeet Sat 20-Jul-13 19:14:51

I'm agreeing with Scottishmummy. Only I'm going to add swear words.
Its fucking rude and inconsiderate. I had one friend who knows I had 3 hours because I can only bring dd into town to meet up when I have a Carer to help me. So Carer arrives and I get myself, dd (and all her oxygen, nappies, tubes etc she is 10) in her wheelchair and the Carer oonto the bus for the half an hour trip into town. The friend knows we will have 2 hours as I have to get the Carer back as she is contracted to work 3 hours only. The fucking friend shows up 1 hour and 50 mins late with her toddler claiming toddlers are difficult hmm
This friend is now an ex-friend as this happenend far too often.

3boys3dogshelp Sat 20-Jul-13 19:38:35

I used to be late for everything, not very late but a few minutes all the time. Growing up it was just how my family was and it became normal. My mum is the worst - we moved house (10 miles, 3 buses) 6 months before my gcses so I couldn't move school and I had to get a lift home. She was late EVERY day! Often 45 mins or so. I remember being sat on the pavement age 15 trying not to cry with frustration. I vowed I would never do that to my kids and so far (5 years) so good. The first few days of school I was 20 mins early but I've calmed down now! Ironically having small children has made me far more punctual in everything because I've just developed better habits and a more realistic timescale for things.

Ipsissima Sat 20-Jul-13 19:47:58

MrsMook The family thing has an influence as it's the culture I grew up with
Not always! I love my DD dearly but she is the only person in the family who is totally incapable of getting anywhere on time. She is intelligent, highly trained and organised, but is SO bad about punctuality that her friends would tell her an event started an hour before it was actually due to kick off.....and, occasionally, she would still be late.
I despair!!

She grew up with punctuality as the norm. She is not one of the worlds scatty types - always manages to get to work on time, and annoys herself when she is running late yet again!

It just seems completely beyond her and it drives me round the bend!

dubstarr73 Sat 20-Jul-13 19:55:24

What i found is telling my friend if we are to meet at 7 dont leave the house at 7.Or i get her to call me when shes waiting on the bus and i leave soon after.

I find when your late they are the very people to have a fit about being late.I wouldnt mind ive kids,she doesnt if i can be on time why cant she be.Really annoys me as well

xalyssx Sat 20-Jul-13 20:11:46

I have learning difficulties and I am 'always' late - but I know that I am like this so I am constantly trying different things to make my life run smoother, for example I needed to get to work at ten, so the latest train I could get would be the half 9, so I tried to make sure that I was ready for the 9oclock train. Also if I am being picked up by someone, I tend to ask them to arrive 15 minutes before they want to leave. If I am meeting up with someone, I say that I will be there at 5ish and I will text them when I leave and if I am running late.
These things only work if you know that you are a late person.

MollyBerry Sat 20-Jul-13 22:34:56

This annoys me so much too. It runs in my family, a complete inability to get anywhere on time. I am the total opposite and feel panicked if I feel I'm running late and am always on time. Don't know how I turned out so different to them. I think it was always turning up late to things in y childhood and continually being picked up late. I hated it and never wanted to be that way

Bogeyface Sat 20-Jul-13 22:49:10

My sister is like this, she knows she is a pita but doesnt seem to do anything about it. Mum is always late because she totally underestimates the time it takes her to do things, so with her at least it isnt selfish.

What annoys me the most is that mum will kick off if I am late! On a Sunday the kids go around for the afternoon, it is my only child free time so I treasure it and am usually bang on time! However, on the odd occasion I have been late she is ringing ten minutes after we should be there wanting to know where we are. My sister at least doesnt do that. The only time Dsis was on time was my wedding. I was picking her up to go back to ma's after my hair appointment, I said I would pull up, beep once, wait 1 minute and then leave. As I pulled up, she was waiting on the doorstep, she was so proud of herself although she did say she was so worried that she had been ready for over an hour. She was half an hour late on her own wedding day though!

As someone who will text if I am going to be arriving at 2:03pm instead of the 2pm arranged, I hate hate hate lateness!

Your time is not more important than mine, you are not busier than me (in the case of sis and ma I know this to be true!) and you should not take me for granted. Ma has got better since I went out once after getting sick of waiting for her grin

scottishmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 22:52:41

But it's selfish to not adapt behaviour if you know you under estimate
Selfish to know you keep people waiting,because wont amend under estimation
And I'm addressing those with no clinical reason for lateness.thise who can but won't vane

scottishmummy Sat 20-Jul-13 22:53:23

But it's selfish to not adapt behaviour if you know you under estimate
Selfish to know you keep people waiting,because wont amend under estimation
And I'm addressing those with no clinical reason for lateness.thise who can but won't change

Bogeyface Sat 20-Jul-13 23:55:28

Scottish I have read with interest about the possible neurological reasons for some peoples lateness. I think that there are people who genuinely do have problems with time management that they cant help. Those are the people who will be consistently late for work, miss planes etc and I have the utmost sympathy for them. I know someone like this and the more I think on it, the more I think that he underlying issues.

Ma is different, she will be very very early for a plane because she is a last minute panicker. I think that is the reason for her lateness, she is fine, organised, ready to go and then for some reason she must empty the bin for example and that makes her late. She is a major control freak and I wonder if she cant cope with being controlled by someone or something else ie; someone expecting her to be on time. She must be in control of every situation, and that expectation is someone else being in control.

DSis is just thoughtless and selfish I think. She will be on time for a plane (neither early nor late), will plan her packing a week in advance because she knows that she cant do it properly later than that as she is at work. She will be on time for work, meetings, doc appointments. But would always be late meeting me because "Just popped into X shop and saw some lovely trousers I wanted to try on....." ~She is much better with me now because I made it clear how pissed off I was. She can do it, but chooses not to.

lessonsintightropes Sun 21-Jul-13 01:29:20

The thing is, I don't really give a fuck why someone else is reliably, depressingly late. I don't care about time splits, or having left your purse, or a phone call that you could have not picked up. I don't really give a toss about your culture - my latin american and carribean and asian and british friends, or sorry the ones I choose to keep, manage to turn up. I tried so hard to convert my two 'late' friends, nearly a decade apart, and spent so much emotional energy on friendships before realising that I just couldn't be arsed to be around people who - let's be frank here - whilst not wishing to be lazy or disorganised or dismissive of the value of my time, just can't do it. And I just can't manage to, on a day to day basis, put up with it. I have family and friends who are sometimes late and rarely me too, but someone who does it all the time? Lazy, disorganised buggers, I've got better things to do with my life that sit in bars or coffee shops waiting for you and no I don't give a shit that you couldn't leave the house without painting your nails. Apologists, this is what the rest of us, probably, are thinking. We can make the effort to reliably be on time, WTAF can't you???

Bogeyface Sun 21-Jul-13 01:40:08

Been thinking more about this.

In the days of payphones, no 1471, no caller display, no mobiles then being late and not letting the waitee know was more acceptable. But now we all have mobiles. Why do late-runners never let the waitee know that they are not going to be on time? I text if I am running late by less than 5 minutes! If you suddenly realise hmm that leaving the house at 10:05am means you wont make your 10:00am coffee meet up, then fucking text me! Give me the choice between being sat there like a knob or making the most of the hour you have just "given" me!

lessonsintightropes Sun 21-Jul-13 01:51:42

And yes, I have been very happy to sack people for this. I run a charity with flexi time. We need our employees, apart from those who have negotiated a different agreement, to be in between 8am and 10am, to have lunch between 12pm and 2pm, and to be able to go home between 4pm and 6pm. So very flexible in terms of childcare/other issues. I'm better in terms of my contribution at work starting around 9.30 (less tired, more functional) and routinely stay after 6, but will pick up staff who stay longer than their hours as I want to make sure they have a work life balance. If they regularly stay later then either it's a job design issue or a competence issue. If they can't regularly get their arse to work by 10 then I don't care what ever issue it is, they just can't be available to work with colleagues and therefore probably can't do the job, and I'd not lose any sleep in sacking them during probation. I apply the same logic to home, and find the excuses given by people here risable in the extreme. No sympathy - just f**king get up earlier or organise your lives better.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 21-Jul-13 01:53:44

where did I say I am not trying to change

as for disrespecting my friends they know it's my downfall they do not see it that way because it is not intentional many of my friends are the same with their time keeping. at times it may piss them off (those who are better at time keeping) they have down falls too at times that may piss me off but we over look these and accept not everyone is perfect we have other great qualities

and as for having more tasks well yes at this point in my life I probably do (single parent, very little support, study and work) but it is not the reason

yamsareyammy Sun 21-Jul-13 07:43:42

I have noticed that habitually late people hate being "stood up" by others. That is they hate waiting for others themselves.
In fact, I think this is one of the reasons they are late themselves, so that they themselves dont have to wait for others!

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