When cultures Clash..I refuse to give my father-in-laws name to my son.

(557 Posts)
orangebee1 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:13:50

Ladies, last week i delivered twins, one boy and one girl. My husband is Greek and tradition here dictates that the grandson must be named after the grandfather.
I am English and it's unthinkable to me that i can't choose my son's name. I am happy to have the grandfather's name (Yiorgos) as a middle name, but certainly not the first one and am insisting that my huband and i find a name we BOTH want.

I delivered by c-section and after two days (when i was still in the hospital recovering!) what should have been a joyous occasion turned into tears and arguments over the name choices - i wrote the names my husband and i had agreed on on facebook and his family saw and all hell broke lose.

My husband was so taken upset by his family's reaction, he was crying and distressed and finally changed his mind about the names.

As yet the babies are unamed and referred to as "the boy" and "the girl".
His sister says to me "you have three children now, what is it to name one of them after the grandfather - he has only one life and waited all of it until this day for his name to be passed on".

Am i being unreasonable??? Would you name your child a name you really do not like at all to keep the peace???

MrsRogerSterling Fri 19-Jul-13 12:17:37

No I wouldn't, I would compromise as you have sugeested and use it as a middle name. Yanbu. How does your husband feel, did he mention to you before the birth that he wanted to use his fathers name?

Yanbu I wouldn't do it, especially as you and your dh had already agreed on another name prior to the family finding out

reelingintheyears Fri 19-Jul-13 12:19:19

I would use it as a middle name too.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Fri 19-Jul-13 12:19:25

I think using it as a middle name is a fair compromise. Your child, your choice.

LastTangoInDevonshire Fri 19-Jul-13 12:19:59

Why not call him Georgie Yiorgis - compromise (assuming Georgie is the Greek equivalent of Yiorgis).

MidniteScribbler Fri 19-Jul-13 12:20:44

No, I wouldn't. But your DH also has a say in it, it's his child as well.

Could a compromise be to name him Yiorgos John, for example but always call him John?

Leviticus Fri 19-Jul-13 12:22:30

Congratulations!

Tell SIL to name her DS after her Dad if she's so bothered!

I think your middle name compromise is very reasonable. Alternatively could you have FIL's name as DS's official first name on the birth certificate and your preferred name as the middle name but the one you actually call him by?

Polyethyl Fri 19-Jul-13 12:22:51

Could you put it as a first name then the second name be one you actually like and use?

My brother is James Hugh .... and everyone calls him hugh. The james was put first just to keep family tradition - but has never been used.

Mandy21 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:23:18

I agree that there is a compromise to be had - as LastTango suggests, is there an English equivalent of grandfather's name that you can use and say you have given him the name, just the English version of it?

Leviticus Fri 19-Jul-13 12:23:20

X post Scribbler!

Mandy21 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:24:42

P.S. As a mother of b/g twins, I'd also suggest that your DH's family recognise that you have quite alot on your plate with 1 week old twins!!

Tabliope Fri 19-Jul-13 12:27:10

Did you not know and discuss this beforehand? I know a British woman married to a Greek man and she went with the tradition of naming their first son after the grandfather. I'm surprised your husband never mentioned anything because he would have grown up knowing this and also was probably told by his parents "ooh we can't wait until you have little Yiorgos".

I completely understand where you're coming from. Your DH should have put his parents straight a long time ago as I do feel little bit sorry for your FIL - it's his culture and one day he hoped to pass his name on so I could understand if he feels cheated. Saying that I refused point blank to give my DS his grandfather's name, even as a middle name, as I hated it. Culture clash as you say.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Fri 19-Jul-13 12:28:06

YANBU

There is no way you should be pushed around about this, you have just given birth to twins for goodness sake!

He is your son, of course you should have a say in his name and just because your DH is from a different culture doesn't trump your wishes

Branleuse Fri 19-Jul-13 12:30:05

Id probably do it, and then call the child a nickname, if that was what my husband wanted, if it truly was tradition

stleger Fri 19-Jul-13 12:30:53

My ds has 'the name' as his first name (the name has been handed down for 7 generations), but is known by his second name. Otherwise we'd be stuck with the family tradition of Old Name, Young Name and Wee Name.
FIL sometimes refers to ds by Name, and confuses everyone. Ds uses it on email accounts and things. He intends to pass it on, his some will be Name Wolf, and that child's mother will be here...

formicadinosaur Fri 19-Jul-13 12:32:46

Firstly he is your son. Yours and dh's choice. Grandad can be used as middle name.

Never ask relatives options about names. Just choose the names and tell people what the kids are called. Ignore negative comments.

roguepixie Fri 19-Jul-13 12:33:10

Firstly, congratulations on the birth of your twins.

Secondly, YANBU. Compromise. It is unreasonable for them to expect this "tradition" to be handed down like this. Agree with Leviticus too - SIL can name her child after him.

My MIL tried to guilt me into naming my DS after her father as "I made the promise to him that I would name my son (my DH) after him but husband took care of registering him and gave him a different name". My response: "you made the promise, not me. Sorry, but don't want to call him X, we've decided on XX".

Stand your ground - compromise exists on both sides not only yours.

NotYoMomma Fri 19-Jul-13 12:36:05

isnt this why Peter andre's son is Junior? I think it was a compromise name

orangebee1 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:37:16

Hi ladies, thanks for the responses so far...
We have discussed putting Yiorgos as a first name but never using it and instead going by the middle name of my choice, but it just seems wrong to me somehow - he'll go through his whole life with Yiorgos as his official name and i just don't want that.
The name translates as George in English but it's still not THE name i would like for my son, i do want something only both my husband and i are happy with so it's not like i'm digging in my heels to get a specific name.
And yes we discussed it before - actually it was a condition i gave to my husband before we married- 'i will marry but you know i won't name any son we have after your father'.

I am not a feminist or anything close to that, but i do feel it sickening that as the mother i cannot chose my child's name?? That i feel bullied and guilt-tripped into doing something i don't want to. It just seems such a backward notion to me. And what of my own father who's passed away? Surely it's enough for my husbands family to have the middle AND last name.

I can think of 4 people I work with who don't use their first name, so it might be a solution to have it as a first name but just use the middle name.

TheCraicDealer Fri 19-Jul-13 12:38:19

Next time his sis tries to start guilting you with "he has only one life and waited all of it until this day for his name to be passed on" line, say "So when are you going to get pregnant then?".

Honestly, tell them to jog on. Or you could call him George, which Google tells me is the English version and isn't heinous.

x post

TheCraicDealer Fri 19-Jul-13 12:39:12

Cross post- stick to your guns. Have you got a name you want to use?

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 12:39:30

He is your son, of course you should have a say in his name and just because your DH is from a different culture doesn't trump your wishes


Erm they are DH's children too. Why should OP's wishes trump his any more than his trump hers? Though I personally would tell them all to go boil their heads and fry their faces if I had given birth to twins in this bloody heat

StanleyLambchop Fri 19-Jul-13 12:41:12

I am assuming from your post that you live in the UK and your ILs are still in Greece? In which case the children will be growing up here? I think that the culture they will live in has to take precedence in this type of situation. It may be difficult for your DS growing up with a Greek name which a lot of people will struggle to pronounce. So I would certainly 'anglicise' the name if I were in your shoes. If you do go for the second name option you could keep it in the original Greek form as he probably won't use it much. If you are in fact living and bringing the children up in Greece then this opinion is totally useless BTW.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Fri 19-Jul-13 12:42:53

Traditions change as cultures change and mix. Your child has mixed heritage so the compromise of the middle name is I think a reasonable one. You could also agree to allow the in-laws to call your son by that name when he's with them - lots of children have nicknames and that shouldn't be difficult for him to understand when he's older. But I agree that his 'real' first name should be one both you and your husband agree on.

It's done now, I know, but this also demonstrates why I think announcing things like names on Facebook - when family don't already know - is not a good idea.

Are you planning to stay permanently in Greece? Does everyone else in your community follow this tradition? If so that doesn't mean you have to, but it does mean you have to be prepared to explain it over and over. Worth sticking to your guns though.

DorisIsWaiting Fri 19-Jul-13 12:43:01

If you discussed this before you were married and before you conceived than STAND YOUR GROUND... this is not new his family are trying to bully you at your most vulnerable time and you will have to live with the consequences of that for the rest of your and your son's life.

He knew your views and agreed to them.

Stick with your decision do not be budged!

JackNoneReacher Fri 19-Jul-13 12:43:19

Yanbu it was all previously agreed?! Your dh needs to grow some and stand up to his sister and family.

GobblersKnob Fri 19-Jul-13 12:46:53

I think using George is a good compromise, they are not just your children, they are your husbands too and they also belong to the wider family.

CadleCrap Fri 19-Jul-13 12:47:27

My husband is Greek and tradition here dictates that the grandson must be named after the grandfather.

I understand your dilemma but are you now living in Greece as indicated by your OP. If so then there is something to be said about adopting the nations traditions,

if not - then I'm talking bollocks and ignore me grin

LadyBeagleEyes Fri 19-Jul-13 12:48:44

He has his grandfather's last name, doesn't he?
That should be enough.
I remember my ex mi'sl catsbum face when I wanted my ds to have a Scottish name, but I pointed out his last name was extremely Yorkshire, so it was going to be Scottish.
She did take it on board.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Fri 19-Jul-13 12:49:40

Stanley ah, I'd assumed they were in Greece. Will need some clarification from the OP to help with how to play this!

TalkativeJim Fri 19-Jul-13 12:50:53

Absolutely not unreasonable - but they are!

You DISCUSSED it. You were clear. If your husband didn't pass that on... his problem, I'm afraid.

It may be tradition, but it's not YOUR tradition.

Keep what peace? Not your peace. Why should you forever not be at peace with your own son's name?!

You can and should name your own son the name you want.

My compromise would be to give your son his grandfather's name as a middle name. That's quite traditional here.

I hope you don't give in 'to keep the peace'. Because it's NOT peace. It's you being bullied out of naming your own child, and I can't think of anything less peaceful and harmonious within a family. I don't think you'd forgive easily. I wouldn't. It would certainly be a terrible thing for your husband to ask of you. I'd be deeply angry and feel that he was betraying his MAIN obligation to his IMMEDIATE family...i.e. me and our children.

And everyone on here seems to agree!

Goldmandra Fri 19-Jul-13 12:51:44

You dealt with this matter and came to an agreement before you were even married. That means it is sorted IMO.

If it meant so much to your DH that his son's name followed family tradition he could have raised it then, before you became pregnant, during the pregnancy or when you agreed the name after the birth. Now is simply not the time.

Your wishes don't trump your DH's but the decision you made as a couple trumps the wishes of the wider family.

Just be prepared that, assuming you don't give in, you will never hear the last of this.

TalkativeJim Fri 19-Jul-13 12:53:17

' i do feel it sickening that as the mother i cannot chose my child's name?? That i feel bullied and guilt-tripped into doing something i don't want to.'

-you can choose, and you absolutely should. I hope you do.

Reading your posts again - it was a CONDITION of your marriage!

Um, how about suggesting that if he wants this condition overturned, then you're going to overturn the convention of your son getting his family name, instead you're going to register him with your father's name - i.e. yoiur maiden name? Just to be fair eh?

picnicbasketcase Fri 19-Jul-13 12:55:26

I don't know why it's even an issue. He is YOUR son, not theirs. Put your foot down and tell them that under no circumstances will he be given any name you're not happy with. A middle name is perfectly good enough to show respect.

YummyYummyYum Fri 19-Jul-13 12:55:46

Good luck with that, a Colombian-American friend married into a Greek-British family and had the same problem. She ended up naming her son after her father in law, but she doesn't like the name and chose a nickname for her son. Her mother in law said she was confusing the child and should call him by his real name. The name is not easy to pronounce, I usually call him baby sad

gemini75 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:56:23

I'd just go with it . My ds is named after his dad and two grandads and is called by a nickname so 3 proud happy men and a lovely little boy with family history to his name .

StanleyLambchop Fri 19-Jul-13 12:56:40

Snazzy Agree the post is ambiguous about the locations of everyone involved. OP can you clarify?

JADS Fri 19-Jul-13 12:56:50

Yanbu

Stick to your guns. This was agreed before their conception ffs. You dh needs to grow a pair snd deal with his family.

I had something similar. Dh has a family middle name which he wanted to use for ds. I hate the name, it is dull. We compromised by using a name that is an adaptation. I still think that getting a middle and surnam e from the male side is a bit unfair.

squoosh Fri 19-Jul-13 12:58:18

To be honest if I was in your position I'd be thinking 'tradition be damned'.

The name needs to be a name that both you and your DH agree on and from your initial post it seems you had found names you were both happy with. Why on earth didn't your DH give you prior warning that a diplomatic crisis was likely to erupt?

I could not and would not give my child a name I hated just to appease the in laws. Middle name is a more than reasonable compromise.

MorrisZapp Fri 19-Jul-13 12:58:52

Congrats on the birth of your twins!

I have some very bad news for you though...

You are a feminist.

Sorry.

YummyYummyYum Fri 19-Jul-13 13:00:08

BTW, in my husband's tradition you don't name a child after a living person, it was so much easier. In mine, technically, I would have to go to the catholic calendar and see what saint's name is on the day the baby was born, or name the baby after someone (a grandfather/mother, godparent, etc.) but we decided the name without any family interference, thank God.

TeWiSavesTheDay Fri 19-Jul-13 13:01:33

Keep saying no, they are bullying you and your husband (he didn't want to do it either, remember)

I would very publicly tell them all to fuck off quite frankly.

There are ling naming traditions in both line and DHs family - we didn't follow either of them and no one cares because they recognise that it is OUR choice. I'm sorry you didn't get that reaction.

stleger Fri 19-Jul-13 13:04:49

My ds with the Name is 21 now, and it has never been an issue. In school there has always been a 'known name' option when he was registered - a surprising number of people have a different name to the one on their birth certificate.
The only time I even think of it is when booking Ryanair things - ds has both names on his passport; dd1 also has her first and second names on her passport, although she never uses her middle name. So I need to check passports.
And congratulationssmile.

DoctorRobert Fri 19-Jul-13 13:06:19

YANBU. Especially as it was something you specifically discussed with your DH before you got married, and he's clearly in agreement.

Why should your FIL's culture trump your own? I understand he'll be disappointed, but middle name is a decent compromise and he'll just have to suck it up.

Morris grin

Souredstones Fri 19-Jul-13 13:06:42

I always say a child deserves their own name.

Family names are for middle names IMO

kooksi Fri 19-Jul-13 13:07:18

See I'd say this was a really HARD decision to make IF you hadn't talked about it and actually made it a condition of your marriage ..

It doesn't mean too much to hubby if he agreed, it's only the family now that are making this hard for you both ... and it's nothing to do with them! .. They are being horrendous bullies and you both need to put your foot down and tell them to piss off!

purplemurple1 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:07:48

Similar position for us so we're going with, FIL name-our name choice then similar double barrel surname (yet to tell the IL's it will be dads name-my name!)

Would you consider something similar XX-FIL's name

pianodoodle Fri 19-Jul-13 13:08:27

My DH's middle name is one of names that made people chuckle at the registry office. He is embarrassed by it. It's also his Dad's middle name and it's apparently a tradition on his Dad's side of the family...

I'm pregnant and there have been hints that if it's a boy we give it as a middle name.

Unfortunately my family have a tradition of not giving children damn fool names so it won't be happening. DH has a sister so let her inflict it on her child if she wants!

I think you have made a good compromise here. You have acknowledged their tradition by giving it as a middle name and they should acknowledge that your culture allows you to choose a first name yourselves.

Jan49 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:10:05

Congratulations on your twins!

If you are living in England you could tell your inlaws that it's traditional for the parents to name their dc whatever they want and that's what you're doing. I'd also like to know, how can a grandparent argue that the grandson must be named after the grandfather" when most dc would have 2 sets of gps. Do they argue over which side gets priority?

One of my friends (English) is married to a Greek, lives in Greece and had this problem too. She has 2 dd. The first dd has the Greek grandmother's first name. The baby's parents agreed to do this as they liked the name. As the second one was a dd too and they intended to have no more children, the Greek grandfather wanted the second dd to have the female version of his first name. The first name and surname would have been almost identical, a bit like if the grandfather was David Davison and the new baby Davidia Davison. hmm The baby's parents refused.

They gave the baby a name which was a compromise, but the gps rejected that too and called the child 'Baby' for 18 months(!). At that point the parents changed the child's name to their own first choice of name. I think the gps must have accepted it...eventually.hmm

Souredstones Fri 19-Jul-13 13:12:00

Also you can point out the child does have FIL's name...he will carry his surname

Trills Fri 19-Jul-13 13:12:55

Waited all of his life? Right...

You and your husband have agreed that you won't do it. So don't do it.

Interested as to why you don't think you are a feminist. You probably have a different definition to me. Do you think it means you have to hate men or have to work fulltime even if you'd rather be at home with your children or have to not take your husband's name when you get married?

You believe that your boy/girl twins should be treated and valued and respected equally, and given equal opportunities, right?

You think that how people behave towards them should be different only because of how they as individuals are different, not because one is a girl and the other is a boy?

And you recognise that the world currently will treat them differently based on their sex, rather than based on their individual qualities?

Then you qualify as a feminist in my book

If you are married and 'not a feminist' then surely you have taken, and will pass on, your FIL surname to your son?

To me, that is more than a compromise!

YANBU.

Fuckin' hell.

X-post with SourStones - I'm never quick enough! grin

CaptainJamesTKirk Fri 19-Jul-13 13:15:43

My friend had this problem and relented in the end and called her son Constantinos (or Konstantinos can't remember the spelling)... He's been known as Stan in the uk since he was tiny. She doesn't like the name but because her husband felt very strongly about it's he relented.

If you do give in, then you could always just call him George and have the Greek name on the birth certificate. But ultimately your son (and your DH's obviously) so it is up to you.

Tanith Fri 19-Jul-13 13:16:04

Neither the Ops nor her DH's wishes were "trumped" by the other. They had already agreed and announce the names

The issue is that the inlaws are trying to force their own choice of name. And no, their wishes should not take priority, however many strops and hysterics they may throw.

CaptainJamesTKirk Fri 19-Jul-13 13:17:13

Loving pianodoodles comments about her family having a tradition of not given their children silly names. smile

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Fri 19-Jul-13 13:17:35

Yanbu. No way would I bow to this request from dh or pils. You carried and gave birth to that child with all the accompanying pain. You get the final decision on name.

kooksi Fri 19-Jul-13 13:24:23

*echos morriszap ...

how did you not know?

DameDeepRedBetty Fri 19-Jul-13 13:26:02

I'm one of five children, of whom just one is actually known by her or his first name on the birth certificate. Two of us are generally known by names that aren't on the certificate at all! It kept all the grandparents very happy and none of us have ever had any trouble remembering to use our full names when booking tickets etc so as not to trip up with passports and so on.

So practically speaking, pandering to FIL's wishes (and your SIL waving cudgels on his behalf) wouldn't be a massive pain.

However, the underlying issue is whether your DH's family should be putting you and your DH in this position at all. And it's pretty obvious they shouldn't.

And enormous congratulations on ooshing out twins in this heat. It was bad enough carrying my dtds in the middle of winter, it must have been unbearable in this weather!

WafflyVersatile Fri 19-Jul-13 13:37:07

'That is not the tradition in the UK. Your name is already being passed down in his surname and we're happy to use it as his middle name. If you keep making a fuss We will call him Notyiorgis, Notyiorgis, Mymaidenname and you can go whistle'.

Pigsmummy Fri 19-Jul-13 13:38:58

Had my DD been a DS I would be in your situation. Although my husband is Irish and wanted the baby named the same as him and his father.
Had I have had a boy we decided to name the child his fathers name and the middle name be my Fathers middle name and know him as a shortened version of his first name. I didn't want two men in the house with the same name, (my DH and potential DS). If my next baby is a boy then I am doing this.

Just go with the middle name and let them calm down. If DSil persists tell her she can call her baby the name.

weisswusrt Fri 19-Jul-13 13:39:56

If you're not even close to being a feminist, then you have no choice but to bend to the will of your husband and FIL, after all you are just a silly little woman, right?

TeWiSavesTheDay Fri 19-Jul-13 13:41:22

You should definitely name him 'Notyiorgos' it has a lovely ring to it grin

GwenStacy Fri 19-Jul-13 13:44:03

Echoing the "go ahead with what you agreed" people.

Just beware though, of not letting your husband register them if there is any doubt in his mind- my father registered both me and my sister as totally different names to the ones him and my mum had "agreed"!

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 13:49:22

Congratulations!

You need your DH's back-up here. Remind him what you agreed in advance. I think using it as a middle name is a perfect compromise.

Oh, and

I am not a feminist or anything close to that

Maybe these events will start to change your mind about that? This is one of the many things feminism is concerned with.

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 13:50:19

x-post with weiss but she put it more succinctly grin

Ujjayi Fri 19-Jul-13 13:55:48

OP stick to your original plans & agreement. As others have said your SIL can do the honours when she has her own. It is a choice that only the parents should make & your compromise of using it as a middle name is a good one.

We had similar situation with my ILs. They wanted DS1 to take FIL's name. Thankfully DH & I were in agreement that it was not going to happen. I also pointed out that as BIL has same name then it should be his DS who should take the name. As BIL hadn't been in a relationship for years there was much discussion behind my back to attempt to change DS1's name.

BIL has since married and has a DS....who was given the name. It makes me so cross that FIL shows a massive preference for my nephew - and more so that my DCs are aware of it.

GwenStacy I seem to hear that all the time on MN - about our parents' generation, not ours.

Anyone else just think they'd rip their DP's balls off if they did that?!

OP this situation is ludicrous - it was agreed in advance and I can sort of see your DH might have just not realised it would be such a big deal when he agreed to your condition, or buried his head in the sand and hoped to cross that bridge when he came to it, but this isn't crossing the bridge, it's just crying to get his / his family's way, when 1 week after delivering twins you shouldn't even be aware of this argument which is so clearly your husband's fault.

It would be more than reasonable, it would be gracious of you to give your child Yiorgos as a middle name when this discussion was already had such a long time ago.

Inertia Fri 19-Jul-13 14:00:42

Congratulations on the arrival of your children smile

Do not be bullied. And make sure you register the names- I don't know how that works legally where you are, but for heaven's sake don't send DH off on his own or with his family to do it.

You and DH are the parents. You have chosen the names. Everybody else sticking their oar in can choose their own names for their children.

Tell SIL that you are letting her have her father's name for her own child as it would be confusing otherwise, two cousins with the same name.

Presumably (given your comment about not being a feminist, which suggests that you normally take the traditional view of such things) you and your children have taken your husband's last name- which will be the same as your FIL's last name? I think last name and middle name is perfectly sufficient for grandfather-honouring purposes.

Lj8893 Fri 19-Jul-13 14:04:40

I was in a fairly similar situation, when I fell pregnant and names were discussed, my dp said that it was tradition for a boy to take his fathers name. My dp has a lovely name but I didn't want two of the same name in my household if that makes sense. We did discuss it and eventually agreed it would be his middle name, but that discussion is now invalid as we are expecting a girl!

Also, got to agree with the other posters about feminism. Assuming you believe in equal rights for women, you are a feminist. Hell, even men can be feminists you know!!

googlyeyes Fri 19-Jul-13 14:08:22

Haven't had time to read whole thread but no way would I even use FIL's name as a middle name.

I absolutely agree that both parents should choose a name together but as I told my DH's family (who fretted re us not using any of FIL's names) the children get their fucking surname (at least in our case they do) so that should be more than enough to keep them happy.

I was always too much of a feminist to be dictated to by my father or anyone else's re names. Patriarchal traditions can fuck right off as far as i'm concerned. It's 2013! They had their chance to name their own kids and cannot use emotional blackmail to try and exert control over what future generations do with their kids! And culture is really no excuse as we all have a culture and I don't feel one should ever dominate another in this way

ImperialBlether Fri 19-Jul-13 14:10:59

How come grandmothers don't look forward all their lives to their granddaughter being named after her?

I'd say middle name or nothing. If he disagrees, you need to emit a high pitched scream until he caves.

googlyeyes Fri 19-Jul-13 14:12:49

V good point re the grandmothers.

It really is all about sexism.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 19-Jul-13 14:31:15

Yanbu

And it's really OK to admit you are a feminist

JamieandtheMagicTorch Fri 19-Jul-13 14:35:45

.

Nassau Fri 19-Jul-13 14:41:49

Anybody else thinking of the scene in 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' where Toula's father is introducing the 'family' to Ian's parents? ... And these are their children Anita, Diane and Nick. ... And their children Anita, Diane and Nick. Nick, Nick, Nicki, Diane, Anita, Nick, Anita etc
m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F

coraltoes Fri 19-Jul-13 14:51:54

call you DD Yiorgis and really stick it to them

I'd say middle name or not at all.

Don't get me wrong tradition is lovely to stick to but both parents need to want to keep it that way. Having his name in their somewhere is a nice tribute to him and not shrugging off his name.

I can't see why someone would keep pushing it. Really your DH should've informed his parents a while back this was going to be the case, so they didn't get their hopes up but what is done is done.

He does need to tell them though that it's not disrespect to his father but that you have your heart set on a different name. But you are perfectly happy to have Yiorges as a middle name if he feels he'd still like his name to be in their somewhere?

As far as the sister is concerned I presume she is going to name her DC after her father? So at least her father wont feel let down that he doesn't have any GCs with that name.

Sorted, really.

thegreylady Fri 19-Jul-13 15:07:00

I have three 'first names' and have been known by the third all my life.It has never been a problem.I have always introduced mysely as name3 and all schools were given that as my preferred name.People didn't even know my other names unless I told them.
I'd go for putting grandad's name first but using the second name from the beginning.

diddl Fri 19-Jul-13 15:07:20

I'd also say middle name as a compromise.

His tradition isn't more important & he'd already agreed not to.

Jan49 Fri 19-Jul-13 15:13:42

How come grandmothers don't look forward all their lives to their granddaughter being named after her?

Perhaps some do. The friend I posted about above was expected to name the first girl and first boy after the grandparents.

will the granddad have access to the birth certificate? Can't you just say you've called him Yiorgos but want him known as the name you like? How will they know that isn't true?

I have two DCs, and me and OH have different family traditions. His is for 2 middle names, and mine is having the middle name of John (if you're a boy of course, my family aren't that cruel!). Thankfully these things don't clash particularly but DD has both her grandmother's names as middle names and DS has his paternal grandfathers and John. I sometimes feel a little guilty that my DF is the only one that hasn't been named in view of his family's tradition.

YANBU OP, you made this clear from the get go. Its not a sudden hormonal change. I've had years of family arguments because a child was named Jim Bob rather than Bob Jim for example. AFAIC they can all go whistle!

orangebee1 Fri 19-Jul-13 15:21:53

Yes Talkative Jim - this is exactly how i feel, it's like being bullied, especially the fact it started when i was still in the hospital struggling on my own there to recover from the c-section - it was a tough time already and then to have all this drama. I was so stressed and could not sleep and consequently my breast milk has gone - totally GONE. And i feel now, after the way they reacted, i absolutely do not want to have the grandfather's name there, i feel disgusted by it. But i love my husband so much, and i don't want to see him suffer because of it. So tough to know what to do...

samandi Fri 19-Jul-13 15:22:08

YANBU, how stupid. Personally I believe that as she did the hard work the mother gets final say on kids' names. Certainly wouldn't be naming a kid after a grandfather automatically. But then, this kind of thing is precisely why I would never have kids with someone from a different culture.

hermioneweasley Fri 19-Jul-13 15:28:49

It is ok to be a feminist!

I think the point about your father is perfectly valid.

My father had a huge sulk because I wouldn't have my son circumcised as is"traditional" in our family. As other mnetters well no doubt say, "no" is a complete sentence.

MrsSparkles Fri 19-Jul-13 15:33:03

Imperial in my DHs country first born boys are named after the fathers father, and first born girls after the mothers mother. Luckily we had a girl first, and my mum said no thanks!

We're hoping BIL has a baby boy before we do because then we'll be excused from naming him - there are already 3 people in the family with the same name - v confusing!

diddl Fri 19-Jul-13 15:36:30

No, it isn't tough to know what to do.

You both agreed that your son would not be called FILs name.

How will your husband suffer?

Your husband needs to tell them to stop bullying.

How many siblings does he have-maybe they'll do it?

Or must all boys be named after FIL?hmm

MrsSparkles Fri 19-Jul-13 15:36:42

Posted too soon! OP try to have a calm chat with your husband - easier said than done ,you must be exhausted - and remind him what you agreed and how you are feeling about it.

It may be that he agreed before but having seen DS suddenly felt it would be really important to things, we are all entitled to change our minds sometimes.

LadyClariceCannockMonty Fri 19-Jul-13 15:37:32

'call you DD Yiorgis and really stick it to them' grin

Hahahaha love the idea of calling your DD Yiorgis instead

burberryqueen Fri 19-Jul-13 15:44:21

the thing is it might cause such a massive rift and a huge problem for your husband with his family - at least it is Yiorgos and not eg Stavros....

MarshaBrady Fri 19-Jul-13 15:45:56

I'm not surprised you feel bullied and manipulated.

I wouldn't use it. No way.

Backpaw Fri 19-Jul-13 15:50:50

I would be so tempted to say 'yes, we've named him after his grandpa - meet little Wilfred. (Or whatever your dad is called). I'm surprised that your DH didn't know what a stink this would kick up.

Where DH is from you just don't name a baby after a living relative! We almost gave DS a middle name after his grandpa - it's like saying someone is dead basically. He did see the funny side and made a big joke of it! We didn't go for it after all!

Chunderella Fri 19-Jul-13 15:57:12

OP if you want to bf, perhaps nip over to the feeding board? I don't bf myself, but I hear that lot have some brilliant tips for those who do, especially re supply. It would be awful if you were unable to feed the way you want to feed because of shitty in law behaviour.

And yanbu.

Lottapianos Fri 19-Jul-13 15:58:34

Oh I really feel for you OP. This is terribly unfair - you discussed it with your DH before your children came along and agreed that this would not be happening. Having said that, as the adult child of two extremely overbearing parents myself, I can understand why your DP is feeling wobbly about it all, especially mixed up with the emotion of your twins being born. He does need to stick to the agreement though. This is not fair on you and giving in to his family's demands on the naming issue could set a nasty precendent for future decisions about the twins.

Please don't be afraid of the 'feminist' label. Like Trills, I'm interested as to why you felt you had to point out that you're not a feminist. I'm sure you think your twins are equally gorgeous and wonderful and that they are equally capable of growing into amazing adults. Your refusal to just give in to this patriarchal bullying about your DS's name suggests that you are a feminist which is wonderful!

Congratulations on your twins smile

thebody Fri 19-Jul-13 16:02:49

you told your dh you weren't going to do it. he knew and so agreed.

sorry op he needs to man up to his family and protect you as his wife. he should be the filter here and stopping this 'bullying' at once.

tell your sil to go fuck herself.

NatashaBee Fri 19-Jul-13 16:05:08

YANBU, your DH should not have gone back on what you agreed. I'm sure it's a great name in Greece, but everyone in the UK will struggle to pronounce it.

orangebee1 Fri 19-Jul-13 16:05:30

Thanks so much for the support all.
It really is very tough, my husband said to me that if i insisted on sticking to a different first name he would agree BUT he would "lose some respect" for me.

I feel that if i give in to the first name demands it will cause a permanent rift between myself and his family, i will ALWAYS resent them for it and i can't see how they'd have a fruitful relationship with my children afterwards. I am already struggling to be civil with them after my experience in the hospital.

The whole notion of a mother not being able to name a child as she pleases (with her partner of course) seems so backwards and alien to me. The most frustrating thing is my husband is so very modern and never lets his family boss him around, so i am shocked he has buckled now. And yes, as someone wrote, i do wish he could prioritise the needs of his immediate family over the rest.

diddl Fri 19-Jul-13 16:06:16

They sound horrible.

And it's a tradition-not a fucking law.

Congratulations, btw!

diddl Fri 19-Jul-13 16:08:47

OMG-sorry, but the absolute bastard!

He'll lose respect for you-who is trying to stop herself being bullied about a tradition in 2013!

ONE WEEK AFTER HAVING TWINS!!!

How have you any respect left for him?

EldritchCleavage Fri 19-Jul-13 16:11:26

It is so easy for people to suggest you compromise, but once you give in, have you set a precedent for the future (where the in-laws know if they kick off badly enough, you'll back down)?

Nobody's tradition can be entirely sacrosanct in a mixed relationship (and I know, I'm the product of one). The grandfather's name will be in there as a surname anyway, so he has relatively little to complain about. And it's all so patriarchal-no one seems to think your father and grandfather should get a look in.

Don't let your DH put this on you being intransigent, culturally insensitive, whatever. He agreed to this with you in advance. Stick to your guns.

fedupofnamechanging Fri 19-Jul-13 16:12:46

If you believe in making life choices for yourself and not being dictated to by men, then you are a feminist.

It's all very well to say you love your husband and don't want him to be unhappy, but he made a promise to you about this issue before you married and had a child and he is now breaking that promise to you and putting pressure on you to subjugate your culture to his.

I would be feeling less sorry for him at this point and more angry that he is letting you down.

Or did he just think that he could promise you any old shite and in the end he would get his own way?

But seeing as you are not a feminist, you won't be objecting to that, will you?

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Fri 19-Jul-13 16:13:22

He will lose some respect for you?! What an atrocious and thankless thing to say to the woman who has just carried his twins for none months and had a major operation to deliver them safely. Fuck me. You need to put him in his place. How dare he speak to you like that.

Lottapianos Fri 19-Jul-13 16:14:12

'It really is very tough, my husband said to me that if i insisted on sticking to a different first name he would agree BUT he would "lose some respect" for me.'

That is a seriously shit thing for him to say to you OP. Jesus, you must feel so ganged up on! That's emotional blackmail and it is not on at any time, but just after you've given birth and are coping with not one but two newborns?! Not good at all angry

Hopefully he will come to his senses soon and apologise to you.

He really needs to suck this up and support you and stick to your original agreement. Everyone on this board is behind you so I hope that helps a bit while your DH is sorting his head out!

Groovee Fri 19-Jul-13 16:14:31

My gran was a bit like this. She really didn't like ds's name and told me so with "Groovee what sort of a name is ***?" It was all because we didn't call him Peter after my granpa. But we agreed if we went down that route we'd have to name them after the 4 grandads.

There always has to be someone who has an opinion and believes that they have a right in the say. I think you have to remind dh about your condition of marriage and let your SIL know that she can use the name instead.

burberryqueen Fri 19-Jul-13 16:15:26

congratulations on your twins btw - a terrific fuss will be made over the boy, his name, his name day etc., ; if you are not a feminist now, you will be soon grin - but really, well done and congrats.

orangebee1 Fri 19-Jul-13 16:17:41

EldritchCleavage - i agree with you entirely, those days in the hospital i really thought to myself "i don't want my son's first lesson in life to be watching his mother being tormented into something she knows is wrong."
At the same time i should emphasise what huge thing it is culturally here in Greece, it's like a huge slap in the face to the grandfather not to do it and the rest of his family now mocks him in a bizarre way because all their kids stuck to the tradition where my husband didn't.
I also want to add that the grandfather has always been lovely to me, and i really do respect him, he is from a tiny village and 84 years old so it's a totally different mentality. I understand his pain, but i can't have MY wishes as the MOTHER dismissed in this archaic way.

SeparatedDad Fri 19-Jul-13 16:18:16

Time is a big healer. It's all really hurtful right now, but think ahead and do what you feel is best for your child long term. He will spend most of his childhood with you, not the other relatives. They will all get over it in time. Think ahead and don't allow the heated emotions of today affect you. They will all settle.

Lottapianos Fri 19-Jul-13 16:21:40

'I understand his pain, but i can't have MY wishes as the MOTHER dismissed in this archaic way'

Absolutely agree. You're not being thoughtless and unfeeling about this, but you are putting your own wishes and desires first (which you agreed with DH) and you're absolutely right to do so.

I'm putting a 'this is what a feminist looks like' T-shirt in the post to you grin Be proud of yourself here - it would be totally understandable if between sleep deprivation and being emotionally overwhelmed you just decided to give in and do as you were told. You will be very glad in months and years to come that you didnt.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Fri 19-Jul-13 16:21:50

He would lose some respect for you? The man who agreed before you were married that you wouldn't use the name. Agreed a name when the babies were born and then buckled when his family threw a tantrum?

I know which way the loss of respect would be going if it was me, and it wouldn't be that way.

But seriously, that is a shit thing to say to a woman who has just had your children.

Catmint Fri 19-Jul-13 16:22:24

It is not on for your DH to tell you that he would lose some respect for you, for not submitting to his family's wishes.

As I understand it, you had secured his agreement prior to becoming parents that you would not follow the tradition.

He has gone back on an agreement. You haven't.

He failed to communicate appropriately to prepare his family, and is now making this your problem, 1 week after having twins.

I am really sorry OP, but I know who I am losing respect for, and it isn't you.

EldritchCleavage Fri 19-Jul-13 16:23:40

Well, the family sounds doubly horrid if they are mocking the grandfather. What pigs.

I do think reaching out to him to explain it isn't a snub, it's just accommodating your different traditions and ideas would be a good idea in the future. But for now look after yourself and your twins, ask your DH to please tell SIL to pipe down and see if you can't get bf going.

Splutter! lose some respect for you! That would clinch it for me. Your dh just lost the right to have any say in it, right there.

How much respect do you have for your dh, now that he has allowed his family to treat his wife in this way, 2 days after giving birth?

Time to tell them that, once they have apologised for their behaviour, you will consider allowing them to see little Not-Called-Yiorgos again.

Wow - I hope you've told your OH that he may lose some respect for you but you've already lost every scrap you had for him now.

Jan49 Fri 19-Jul-13 16:26:53

Since it's your DH who has gone back on something he agreed to, I would expect you to lose a little respect for him, not the other way around.sad

Also if it's a slap in the face to a grandfather not to name a grandson after him, what about a child's other grandfather?confused

Are you saying the grandfather has lots of grandchildren and all the grandsons are named the same as him except yours?confused

MarshaBrady Fri 19-Jul-13 16:27:07

This happened to a friend. Same sort of emotional bullying and emotional blackmail.

Similar overly strong cultural thing. The dh did a big turn around after the birth.

Anyway she said no and sod the consequences, and it did mend over time. The relationship between the gp and dc is fine. Although it changed her view of the in laws and it ruined her early days, and she got ill from it.

It's a lesson really, in that not everyone will automatically follow cultural traditions.

Mama1980 Fri 19-Jul-13 16:27:38

I cannot believe your husband said that to you! I am angry and confusedon your behalf. How awful that this is very shadowing what should be such a amazing time for you.
Congratulations on the birth of your twins thanks
Personally I am a huge fan of traditions and would call ds after his grandfather HOWEVER that you do not want to do this is fine and that is your right as a mother, the fact that your husband agreed to this and has now changed his mind is not ok. This all could have been avoided if he had just calmly stuck to what you agreed and not engaged with any debate.
Regarding your milk the ladies on the feeding boards here are great and very supportive.

ShedWood Fri 19-Jul-13 16:29:54

How dare your husband say he will lose some respect for you!!!

He is the weak-willed one, reneging on a deal the two of you struck before you were married and bowing down to pressure from his family over something he himself doesn't actually believe in and bullying you at a very vulnerable time.

Surely it's you OP who must have lost respect for him???

Stand your ground OP! If it was me I'd be telling DH he was the last person who could talk about respect considering how he's letting his family treat you! Even worse when he'd already agreed to using a different name. Middle name is a good enough compromise, but after the way they've been acting I don't think I'd want to use it at all!

skrumle Fri 19-Jul-13 16:33:55

YANBU - i wanted to give DD my surname as her last middle name but was guilt-tripped into giving a family name from my MIL's side instead and i still grudge it (13 yrs later), and am now considering double-barrelling kids' surname (i kept my own name). and for me it was a middle name - there's no way i would have compromised on first name.

Whothefuckfarted Fri 19-Jul-13 16:36:30

My other half's 'official' first name is Trevor (after his father), middle name James, always been called James by everyone. Never been a problem to him.

ZolaBuddleia Fri 19-Jul-13 16:37:18

I'm flabbergasted by what your DH said to you! It would seem quite a widespread phenomenon that some men can be crap following the birth of a child (or two) but that was an awful thing to say.

And all of this nonsense is totally sidelining your DD!! It's as if only one of them counts.

I think I'd be seriously rethinking living in Greece.

Backpaw Fri 19-Jul-13 16:37:48

Ok - so in a little while this won't matter for you. If you go the 'wrong' way, it will matter for some of the cavemen/cavewomen in the family.
Your husband was so very wrong to say what he did about 'respect' and I hope you reminded him that not only is respect earned (you've don't more than earned that, having twins) but it is also a two way street, buddy! I'm sure I was just family pressure and aggro talking there.

Did they fuss about the other children's names too, or is grandpa just the loudest bull on the farm?

Alisvolatpropiis Fri 19-Jul-13 16:42:20

Yanbu.

Your DH is being VU not to back you up given it was a condition of you marrying him. He's being a twat.

RaisingChaotic Fri 19-Jul-13 16:42:35

I'm shock at what your DH said to you.

What a vile, nasty thing to say. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Do not give into to your bullying in-laws, you'll regret it forever if you do.

As for your dh, I'd be telling him that I'd lost a lot of respect for him, being such a weak, pathetic individual and putting his parents before you and his children.

Pawprint Fri 19-Jul-13 16:46:05

Difficult situation. I agree with the others, but understand that cultural traditions are so ingrained that people can lose perspective.

I had a Greek boyfriend when I was at university. It's fair to say that he wasn't exactly a feminist. He liked me to wear sexy underwear, high heels and skirts. Oh, and make up. I didn't comply with his demands and he just had to lump it.

He was also very phobic of my menstruation and thought it shocking that it is normal for fathers in the UK to attend the birth of their children.

I do remember that he had his fathers (and/or Grandfather's) surname and celebrated his name day etc. He was very much the favoured child over his sister.

To be honest, I found his cultural traditions somewhat irritating but accepted that it was normal to him. I hope he learned something from going out with a feminist.

Best of luck - I would stick to your guns and keep the names you want.

lljkk Fri 19-Jul-13 16:46:46

We've had this thread before (Greeks and all).

ImTooHecsyForYourParty Fri 19-Jul-13 16:46:46

I think you need to be firm that they are being unreasonable to think that only their culture and tradition is of importance here.

Tell them that cross cultural marriage requires compromise and the compromise you have agreed is to have the name as a middle name.

as for your husband losing respect for you, well, that works both ways. Not much respect should be coming his way from you for being so weak and weeping and wailing and going back on something discussed and agreed because other people are pissed off about it. Not much respect should be coming his way from you for putting the wishes of everyone else above you.

So if he wants to talk losing respect, you need to tell him that he's got a bit of a shock coming...

(I am british and my husband is kenyan. I know about two cultures coming together. I tell you this so you know I am not without understanding)

squoosh Fri 19-Jul-13 16:48:09

I'm shocked at what your husband has said to you re. losing respect for you. He is the lily livered baby, not you.

GreenShadow Fri 19-Jul-13 16:51:23

I've just realised that you are actually in Greece.

That must make it doubly hard for you to act as you wish.

I don't have any answers, just want to wish you luck sticking to your guns.

squoosh Fri 19-Jul-13 16:53:08

OP I have huge respect for you.

You've just given birth to twins, you're DH is being a dick, you are sticking to your principles under pressure. You are acting with grace in very trying circumstances.

So do you end up with loads of cousins all with the same name then? Irrelevant, I know, but still - do you?

Maybe you should tell them that it is your family tradition to buy very large expensive presents for the mother of the first-born grandson. Very expensive. And wash her feet. And stuff.

CylonNumber6 Fri 19-Jul-13 17:00:00

What a horrid situation.

You've provided them with 2DGC and all they're focused on is bullying you into accepting their wishes Iver yours and your DH.

Your DH was majorly out of order to say he has lost respect for you. How DARE he! angry

I'm furious for you, I really am.

Congrats on your twins, stick to your guns Xx

Jaynebxl Fri 19-Jul-13 17:04:25

Do what we did, call the child grandfathers name followed by the middle name that you chose then always refer to him by his middle name. So effectively you all get what you want.

Tinpin Fri 19-Jul-13 17:04:52

There is no way you should have to call your child anything other than a name of your choice. However you are obviously under huge pressure and I suspect feeling a little guilty that you are upsetting your DH's family. A relative in a similar position called her child the family name and a few months later introduced a 'nickname' by which he always known to most of the family. He happily uses whichever name is appropriate to the situation.

diddl Fri 19-Jul-13 17:06:36

Why would you give a child a name you never intend to call them by as a first name, just to appease bullies?

Jaynebxl Fri 19-Jul-13 17:07:50

If she is happy to use the grandfather's name as a middle name then that is fine, just reverse the order.

burberryqueen Fri 19-Jul-13 17:08:51

amazing how some men become disloyal to wives once the babies are born - just like my ex (not Greek but some other traditional European country) - I was gobsmacked.
stay strong OP

StuntGirl Fri 19-Jul-13 17:14:20

I'm astounded by your husband's attitude. Lose respect? I hope you told him you had zero left for him now. What a shity way to treat you. It'a not as if this snuck up on him, it was a condition of your marriage!

Perhaps he needs reminding of a few things. Very angry for you OP.

BreadNameBread Fri 19-Jul-13 17:14:52

YANBU. My DH's family are Spanish and our first born son should have been called after his Spanish grandfather but we didnt consider it. I think my DH would have but I made it clear that I didn't like that tradition.
My DHs family never mentioned it thankfully.
My FIL was not a nice man so I would have hated to have named a child after him.
Our DCs already have 'their' grandfathers name in their surname.

Your DH is being a jerk too. What a thing to say after you have given birth to his children. sad

I would brazen it out. Keep telling them that it is not your tradition and you don't want to disrespect 'your' father (or something confused ).

SeriousWispaHabit Fri 19-Jul-13 17:16:57

I'm from a Greek family.
It won't get any better you know, there will be more of this.

Stick to your guns and do what you want. You are doing amazingly well to be so rational about it all.

Wibblypiglikesbananas Fri 19-Jul-13 17:23:27

Gosh, I feel so sorry for you. You've given birth to twins, you've had a major operation and now you're being bullied by your own (D)H and his family.

I'm sorry, but your husband has allowed his family to ruin what should have been a very special time for you - and not only that, a time when you're still vulnerable both physically and mentally. That's unforgivable in my book.

No way should that child have any part of that family's name now - if they do, every single time you say it, you'll remember their bullying behaviour.

Are you in Greece or the UK?

Marcheline Fri 19-Jul-13 17:24:42

Tell them all to fuck off.

Especially your DH. Tell him that you have lost respect for him, for going back on his word and for joining in bullying you, when he shoul be defending you and telling them all how amazing you are for creating life.

Seriously, just go with the names you like and don't give it any more thought. They are your children. Yes, your DH is a parent too, but he has not just carried them and delivered them, and will not be recovering for the next 6 weeks. DH and I discussed first names, made a shortlist together and we each chose a middle name, but ultimate decision on first names was mine.

Congrats on your babies!

Goldmandra Fri 19-Jul-13 17:28:27

Perhaps your DH should consider how much respect you are losing for him as a result of his backtracking on a long standing agreement between you.

He is aware that you felt strongly enough about this to raise it as a condition of your agreeing to marry him.

Respect is earned when one shows integrity. Who is lacking it, I wonder?

WafflyVersatile Fri 19-Jul-13 17:30:21

where would this loss of respect come from?

You said you intended to do X and you are sticking to it. um.

WaitMonkey Fri 19-Jul-13 17:33:01

YANBU in the slightest. Good luck and congratulations on the babies. Must be wonderful. thanks

WeleaseWodger Fri 19-Jul-13 17:36:52

I'm confused. If this was a condition upon your marriage, you had 9 months to have this fight. Have you not said anything your entire pregnancy? Surely you knew this was coming and addressed it with the family? I think if you spoke with the grandfather, etc. and HE was the one who could announce to the entire family he decided his name would be the middle name as the baby is only half greek -- he would have not lost face and this would not have become the big family joke.

Rebelrebel Fri 19-Jul-13 17:38:09

There are many, many people in Greece who do not follow this tradition. There is absolutely no need for them to make such a big deal about this - they could all shrug their shoulders and accept that your traditions are different from theirs and you could all just enjoy the new additions to the family. Given some time, that may yet happen - but your dh needs to be brave enough to support you!

themightyfandango Fri 19-Jul-13 18:01:24

My DH's family have an eldest son of eldest son tradition that for some reason was started about 3/4 generations back. I was adamant that I wouldn't be using it but did call DS a name with the same first letter as a small compromise. SIL also used the name as a middle name for her child.

It wasn't a cultural issue though just a family thing.

wellthatsdoneit Fri 19-Jul-13 18:45:32

What about your cultural traditions? The ones that say the mother and father generally choose the name together without reference to family names, should they so choose? Your husband presumably knew you were British and not Greek when he married you and had children with you, no? You, your family, and your heritage are being completely marginalised. Why is his heritage and his family more important than yours?

That alone would irk me, but for him to say, a week after you've given birth to twins, that he would 'lose a bit of respect for you' if you don't capitulate to his family's demands would send me into orbit. I don't envy you OP, but I think you should stand your ground. They are trampling all over your boundaries which is rude and disrespectful. Just because its a tradition doesnt make it right, or compulsory. As a feminist I am very offended by this tradition which is terribly patriarchal and dismissive of the mother of the child and the mother's family.

Jux Fri 19-Jul-13 19:28:50

So your dh has said he would "lose some respect for you" if you don't. How does he feel about you losing quite a lot of respect for him if he breaks his word to you and forces you to do something YOU BOTH AGREED not to do? Whilst allowing you to be bullied by his family?

Gosh, it's lucky you love him!

quoteunquote Fri 19-Jul-13 19:39:55

Anyone who has been involved in bullying you while you are in the process of recovering from a traumatic birth is a complete Twonk,

I am really angry on your behalf, what fucking shitty thing to do,

say, "If I hear anyone mention anything about my name choices again, not only will I drop any family names but I will avoid having any contact with them",

and do it, No means no, if they don't understand, teach them.

Fucking asshole how dare they taint such a special time, selfish shits, and who wants to be associated with selfish bullies?

Do they normally get away with bullying you? or do they think that because you are in a low physical position they can get away with it?

If you have asked them to stop and they haven't I'm sorry OP but they do not have any respect for you, ask a relative or friend to keep the vile bullying away so you can enjoy your beautiful new family.

many congratulations by the way.

orangebee1 Fri 19-Jul-13 19:40:17

Jux - i hear what you're saying, it is lucky i love him. I was of course so angry when he said that, i was still in the hospital (in Greece) without my family's help or his family's, managing getting back on my feet mostly by myself because my husband had to tend to our other daughter.

The point i'm making is i went through what i feel is a lot (the babies were put in the intensive care at the time) and i was JUST ABOUT coping emotionally and managing, the hormones and emotions where everywhere BUT i did hold things together, but when my husband said about "losing respect" it very nearly tipped me over the edge, and i thought how much i wanted to leave and just take our children and return to england.

I do worry now that we will split over this, his family have no idea what damage they've stirred between us, i am full of anger that my children are now referred to as "the girl" and "the boy" (by my husband too) even though their names were decided!!

ZolaBuddleia Fri 19-Jul-13 19:47:53

Blimey, you already have a DD? That makes all this focus on the one boy even worse!

You poor thing OP, I had a very disappointing partner after DD was born and it's incredibly hurtful.

It does seem there is a large gulf between your two standpoints on this.

TalkativeJim Fri 19-Jul-13 19:55:05

HOW FUCKING DARE HE.

He talks of respect when he has just gone back on an AGREEMENT made in order for you to agree to have children with him? You made your wishes clear, he agreed, he's now changed his mind and is doing the little tilty-head 'oooh, well I might lose resepct for you if you don't let me blackmail you?

Hah!!! Lose all the respect you like, you nasty blackmailing little shit!!

I'll tell you what real loss of respect is. It's seeing a husband UTTERLY FAIL to have the guts to stand by a promise made with his wife. It's seeing a man UTTERLY FAIL to protect his wife, immediately after giving birth, from being bullied by her inlaws. It's seeing a man UTTERLY FAIL to propritise the needs of the immediate members of his family at their most vulnerable time. You have lost your milk because of this stress?

I would never forgive him for that. Name? I'd be looking at giving the baby my maiden name as a surname, something he utterly hated as a first name, and Fuck You Daddy as a middle name.

TWAT.

I think I'd now be saying to him - 'well, the name seems to be the least of our worries. It goes without saying that it won't be the grandfather's name, because I think that if I had one more thing I needed to forgive you for, after this week, it would just be a case of throwing in the towel and booking tickets back home. The best thing you can do now is keep your shit-stirring family away, apologise like it's going out of fashion, and hope that I don't decide to pack and leave as soon as I'm on my feet. Oh and by the way, if I hear you refer to as 'the boy' one more time, he won't even carry your surname. Understood?

TalkativeJim Fri 19-Jul-13 19:56:13

* refer to our son*

CylonNumber6 Fri 19-Jul-13 20:11:40

Talkative Jim has it spot on.

Have you told your H how this is making you feel? What was his reaction?

you know what's even more disrespectful? this is all over ds name but in the maelstrom they're refusing to acknowledge dd2. are they hoping if you give in on ds they can name her too or, as a girl, is she just worthless to them. arseholes the lot of them. including your h

oh, and is be very tempted to say 'which boy/girl?' every time someone called them 'the boy/girl'. and then make a pointed 'he/she has a name, it's Fred/Delilah'

sayanything Fri 19-Jul-13 20:24:17

YANBU, at all. And I don't know how your DH had the nerve to say that he's lost some respect for you, that's just unbelievable.

I'm married to a Greek and have Cypriot origins, so completely understand how difficult this must be. We gave my (deceased) FIL's name as a middle name to DS1, which was commented and frowned upon by many, but I couldn't care less and DH backed me completely.

Just a thought: are you having DS baptised? Could you put Yiorgos as a middle name on his birth certificate, but then baptise him as Yiorgos? A part of the importance of the tradition is for the FIL "to hear his name in church". You'd have to find an understanding priest who'll go along with it, but it could work.

For the record, I'm refusing point blank to have DS2 baptised (I'm an atheist and thought I didn't care with DS1, but it turns out that I do, very much so) and it's causing no end of trouble. But I'm his mother and I decide, with DH, how to raise my children.

YANBU OP your op is being a twat.

BreadNameBread Fri 19-Jul-13 20:26:17

How about sending a family email or letter.

Tell them you love them (if you do) and tell them you love being a part of their family but tell them that you are very, very upset at being put in this situation. Tell them, with no apologies and no explanations, that DS's name WILL BE BabyOrangeBee1 and that you DO NOT ever want to ever hear of it being discussed again.
Then say something pleasant, bland and chatty.

Ps congrats on the babies thanks thanks

ivykaty44 Fri 19-Jul-13 20:26:21

BUT he would "lose some respect" for me.

that is emotional blackmail and not worthy of a reply

congrats on your twins

ChasedByBees Fri 19-Jul-13 20:38:13

I'm so bloody angry for you that your husband said he would lose some respect for you. Arse. I'm sorry as I know you love him but he has treated you so badly and he is being a total arse.

Stick to your guns. Your children have names. They are not 'girl' and 'boy'. They were agreed.

Inertia Fri 19-Jul-13 20:41:35

Your husband is being a total and utter prick. How dare he tell you he's lost respect for you- after you have carried and given birth to his children in traumatic circumstances which you're still recovering from, and he's the one caving in and reneging on your agreement because he can't stand up to his bullying family! I'd have told the lily-livered sap where to stick his respect!

Your son already has his grandfather's name as his surname.

You could always tell everybody that your son's name is Horace (or whatever you agreed) Yiorgis Lastname , and if FIL wants the same name as his grandson he's more than welcome to change his own name.

Your children have names. Don't allow them to be referred to as the boy and the girl. Insist on their names being used. And register the names as soon as you can and before anyone else does it!

wharrgarbl Fri 19-Jul-13 20:49:20

call you DD Yiorgis and really stick it to them

Yiorgina, surely.

celestialsquirrels Fri 19-Jul-13 20:53:21

I'm Greek. Lots of families do this. Just as many don't. Your fil is being a typical bully, probably because he has been told since birth that the sun shone out of his arse and women were there to do what they were told. I believe you should stand up to bullies. Tell your husband that you will leave him if he doesn't stick to his guns and back you up. You will have to shout at your father in law. Scream "I have given birth to these babies and if you want ANY relationship with them at all you will call them by the names I give them you ridiculous old man! Or I will take them to the UK and that's that!" . I feel you need to shock him.

Do not give yiorgos as a middle name because that's what they will call him. And you know that Greeks don't have middle names but if they do it is the name of their father grin

wellthatsdoneit Fri 19-Jul-13 21:15:21

Much as I empathise with your sentiment celeste, the OP can't up sticks and move to the UK with the children without her husbands permission. Her husband could take her to court for child abduction under the Hague convention and as the children's place of habitual residence is Greece they would be sent back there by the English courts. Similarly, furious as I am on the OPs behalf, I don't think making threats of divorce is wise unless she genuinely means to see it through, knowing that she may not be able to return to the UK with the chikdren. I do think the situation is more than the inlaws being self absorbed though. The husbands comment about losing respect is imo the worst thing in all this.

Jux Fri 19-Jul-13 22:47:02

Get their passports and come back to England for a while. Take a long holiday. Register the births and use the names which were agreed between you and your h.

He is behaving like a complete Twunt.

celestialsquirrels Fri 19-Jul-13 23:53:40

I'm not saying she should do it, I'm saying she should make them realise this is non negotiable and threats are one way of doing it, especially when dealing with unreasonable bullies. Meet fire with fire!

Mimishimi Sat 20-Jul-13 00:23:08

We named DD after the maternal grandmother of DH's. Luckily it was a name I loved. I gave her my maternal grandmothers name as a middle name. both grandmothers had passed though. Our son does not have a grandparents name. George is a good name, would you consider calling him that?

ljny Sat 20-Jul-13 00:33:44

I'd be tempted to keep your choice of boy's name - and name the girl whatever the Greek name is for Georgina.

Quodlibet Sat 20-Jul-13 00:46:44

If you give in on this one it is possible that there will be a load of other backwards-thinking things they will also want you to concede on. The tactic of 'but it's always been done like that' and then guilt/histrionics when you don't comply has conveniently been used to keep women in places of subservience for generations. I know you don't identify as a feminist, and maybe your Greek family aren't too retrograde, but I am aware of cases where it can be like that.
Maybe a contraversial view - and I am not insinuating that all Greek families are retrograde, just that sometimes traditions can be oppressive.

LithaR Sat 20-Jul-13 04:57:46

I dunno, there's something nice about giving a child a name with some history, rather than using a fad name of the day.

OhMerGerd Sat 20-Jul-13 06:22:05

Another one here with a brother who is officially xxxxyyyx. Can't put it here it would out me! And then called by his middle name which is the one my mum &dad chose together. Actually family and tradition are very important - in most cultures - and my mum took the view she'd married cross culturally and compromise was required if she was not to spend her entire married life in conflict with the inlaws ( her children's blood relations ). They Absolutely adored her as a result and as the years progressed my gran and aunts would gang up with her against my dad in family disputes!

Nobody outside the immediate family even knows that DBs official name is unusual traditional family name. He's been through school, work, plays sports so often gets written about in local papers etc. Where ever you go there is always the bit on forms that says 'name', then 'known as' ... You put whatever you like there.

Mind you it did give us girls one thing to annoy DB with when we were little... To wind up the otherwise pfbson ( ahem yep that's the big issue really) my sister and I would address him by his 'real' name and it's very cute shortened version. Tee hee ... Made up for all those times we had to do the washing up and he got off just by virtue of being a boy.

ushush Sat 20-Jul-13 06:39:46

To add just another dimension to the discussion, I have a friend at school who is Harriet to everyone. She has a traditional family name followed by her parents chosen name. I cannot remember what they are. However, my point is that she told me that as a little girl she got fed up with parents and other family members calling her by different names and arguing about it. So, she told everyone to call her Harriet and refused to answer to anything else. She has the information for how to change it legally when she can.

exoticfruits Sat 20-Jul-13 06:56:19

I know quite a few people who are called by their middle name, it isn't a problem apart from occasionally having to explain. On a school register you just underline the second name. I think that I would go for tradition as the first name, have your chosen name as second name and always use it. Sometimes grandparents can be a bit difficult and use the wrong one but it stops when the child is old enough to talk and thinks they are silly.

NutcrackerFairy Sat 20-Jul-13 07:24:55

I had a similar issue with my two sons.

DH is Portuguese and his very traditional 85 year old father strongly felt that DS1 should have DHs first name, as is Portuguese tradition.

However DH and I gave both boys English names with DHs and Grandfather's names as middle names.

I agree that this is enough, the boys have Portuguese middle names and surnames, the least I could have is an English first name -considering I carried them for nine months and gave birth to them and all!

Grandfather not best pleased... but he just calls DSs by their middle names... and pretends their first names don't exist.

So everyone happy!

Good luck OP, stick to your guns I say!

nooka Sat 20-Jul-13 07:25:15

But why should the OP have to change from the names that she agreed with her husband? The babies have been born and have their names now.

Discussions about having a first name you don't use and then the name you are actually called are long past, and in any case in this circumstance are surely irrelevant because the dh's family would all use Yiorgos. A name which the OP actively dislikes (as is totally her right) and which her dh obviously wasn't that bothered about before his family kicked off.

We were planning on giving our second son a first name we didn't expect to use because we wanted to call him quite an unusual name and were looking for a bit of insurance but that was our choice (and we had dd in any case).

Orangebee could you get someone from your family to come and visit and support you? It really sounds like you need some back up while you recover from your birth and settle with your new babies.

exoticfruits Sat 20-Jul-13 07:36:12

I would just compromise- you have a lifetime with these people and a name on a certificate that you don't use seems a small price. Give 3 names so that you can keep both yours.

Isityouorme Sat 20-Jul-13 07:38:17

Stand your ground. They'll get over it but if you give in you will be in for a lifetime of resentment and anger. Be brave.

exoticfruits Sat 20-Jul-13 07:38:21

I think that the babies would prefer 2 loving parents, and a doting extended family, rather than a fragmented one over a name that you don't need to use.

exoticfruits Sat 20-Jul-13 07:40:48

If you were going to use the name it would be worth fighting for, but putting it on a certificate and forgetting isn't worth it. DS has a second name- he didn't use it upon his graduation certificate- they get asked which name/names they want on.

EatYourCrusts Sat 20-Jul-13 07:50:36

Tell your DH if he doesn't stick up for you you will lose all your love for him. Never mind a bit if respect.

diddl Sat 20-Jul-13 08:00:29

All this giving in to the bullies.

No wonder they get away with it!

I initially also suggested that the name was used as a middle name as a compromise.

But the more I think about this, the crosser it makes me & I would feel like not using the name at all.

Especially if it was used as a middle name & the family were ignorant enough to then ignore the first name & use it instead.

ZolaBuddleia Sat 20-Jul-13 08:41:21

But exotic, they sound like exactly the sort where nutcracker's situation would come into play, it wouldn't just be a name on a certificate, they would use it every day.

How are you today OP?

I was 'told' we should name our ds after my fil. I refused and also refused to have the name as a middle name.
My reasoning is that i also have a father. One that is much more involved in our life than fil. I wouldnt be using his name so why should I use fil's name.
I didnt want ds to have a long name with 2 middle names and then a long surname as well.
We picked a name we both loved and then I picked my dp's name as ds's middle name. Not because of tradition, but because I love my dp and he had been an amazing support during my pregnancy and in our life together before our ds.

Follow your heart and pick the name both you and your dh love. That will be your ds's name forever.

pianodoodle Sat 20-Jul-13 09:26:37

How dare he say that to you! He is joining in with his family in being a bully now.

Just for that I'd scrap it even as a middle name now (as they'd only use it and ignore whatever first name you chose) then tell them all to go to hell in a handcart until they start behaving.

I feel for you and sympathize. But I have one question. Did you KNOW he was Greek when you married him?

clam Sat 20-Jul-13 09:34:21

So, your h reckons he would "lose some respect" for you.
That's nothing to what you're in danger of losing for him.
Tell him that.

Dilidali Sat 20-Jul-13 09:35:48

Oooh, the Greeks! I bet they also insist that the children are orthodox and brothers and sisters in law to be godfathers lol.
Given it is something you discussed and agreed upon before the birth, so no post partum haze speaking here, I would dig my heels in and have grandad's name as middle name. Make a fuss of asking the greek contingent to use his Grandad's name when dealing with the greeks, you call him whatever you decide.
I too come from two ( similar) cultures and I go by two names because both clans dug their heels in. I never minded that and makes me feel like I belong to both of them.

You will have loads of clashes like this one. Some battles you'll have to fight and some you'll just have to let wash over your head.

skippymurphy Sat 20-Jul-13 09:38:56

Call the boy SUE!!

ByTheWishingWell Sat 20-Jul-13 10:00:04

I think the time for compromise has passed- you had already agreed names with your 'D'H. Him and his family are being absolutely awful to you- it makes me really angry on your behalf! I can't believe that you're being bullied and emotionally blackmailed like this, that you've lost your milk over it, and so many people are advising you to completely give in to the bullies and give your DS a name other than the one you have already chosen.

I wouldn't even give the grandfather's name as a middle name at this point- as others have said, it may just mean that the family refuse to acknowledge your chosen name. And aside from this, I wouldn't want to name my child after someone who would bully me (or allow me to be bullied by his family) in this way, or who would disrespect my DS by referring to him as 'the boy'. Use the names you have already chosen, and stay strong.

Congratulations on the birth of your babies, and good luck flowers

Lonelynessie Sat 20-Jul-13 10:02:00

Pick the names that you want and not what his family wants or you will regret it forever more. Fair enough they have a tradition but what about your culture and tradition? Do not back down to the bullies. If it was me I would have my dads name as the first middle name then his second.

zippey Sat 20-Jul-13 10:11:00

Dig your heels, it is a silly and sexist tradition. It is all tailored to be male centric. No thought going to the female baby or female side of your family or DH family.

Also, your OP started off "ladies" which is also sexist, as we aren't all women on this site.

alemci Sat 20-Jul-13 10:23:03

could you put George as his middle name and give your ds the name of your choice. if you don't want the name of his grandfather then you shouldn't have to do that. It is your baby.

AndHarry Sat 20-Jul-13 10:39:07

YANBU, absolutely not and your DH is being amazingly spineless angry but I would call your DS Yiorgos. If you had been living in the UK I would say stick to your guns, especially as this was all agreed before you were even married, but I think that there is going to be a lot of hurt on both sides now whatever name you choose and it will heal faster if his name is the culturally accepted one. sad for you.

exoticfruits Sat 20-Jul-13 10:53:10

They would only use it everyday until the DS was old enough to talk and understand, and then he would think them silly and they would drop it. If it was me I would accept that I had married into a different culture, give him the traditional name and my 2names. Have him known by his second name, never acknowledge they were calling him the first one- totally ignore and keep to your choice yourselves and anyone else you meet. The DS will know his real name and they will drop calling him by the wrong name as it gets sillier.

LindaMcCartneySausage Sat 20-Jul-13 11:03:42

As soon as I saw the thread title I went "got to be Greek! " to myself. I lived there for a while and there were generations of families called alternately Maria, Alexia, Maria, Alexia etc etc as names were passed on. Cousins sharing the same name too. Ditto with boys names Iannis, Yiorgos, Iannis etc.

anyway, you can't spend your life hating and resenting your son's name. These things fester. I agree with Yiorgos [given name] ideas and make sure he's always known by his second name. Lots of people do this. Your husband believes strongly in tradition and wants to follow that, so compromise has to be the order of the day. Having said that, after giving birth to twins in this scorching heat, I wouldn't want to compromise on anything!

ZolaBuddleia Sat 20-Jul-13 11:24:15

But surely the husband has married into a different culture too, and his previous agreement not to use the FIL's name should stand.

Unless he agreed in the hope to change the OP's mind after the event, in which case she has a whole other set of problems on her hands.

Goldmandra Sat 20-Jul-13 11:26:03

* Your husband believes strongly in tradition and wants to follow that*

If that were the case he wouldn't have chosen a different name with the OP (in line with a very long-standing agreement) and only backtracked when his family interfered.

RaisingChaotic Sat 20-Jul-13 11:53:42

Presumably the OP's dh knew that she was English when he married her.

And yes we discussed it before - actually it was a condition i gave to my husband before we married- 'i will marry but you know i won't name any son we have after your father'.

He also agreed not to follow tradition, wrt naming any children, before they got married.

Booboostoo Sat 20-Jul-13 14:39:23

I am Greek also. While quite a few families stick to this tradition, many do not, e.g. my DD is not named after my mother as I didn't like the name.

I think you should leave this for now. In Greece there is no legal hurry to name children (unless you need passports for them to travel), so leave it for now and wait for things to calm down. It might be easier to have a more rational discussion with your DH when you are settled at home with your babies.

The two of you need to decide on your strategy towards family demands as there will be a lot of them, e.g. you may get quite a few particular demands over the baptism, the choice of god father, etc. before you even get to child raising methods and ideas. I think the two of you need to present a united front and decide which requests you grant and where you put your foot down, but do so as a unit.

Good luck and congratulation on the babies!

CinnamonAddict Sat 20-Jul-13 15:24:53

orange, congratulations!!
(I'm a twin, twins are lovely! wink)

I was in exactly your situation 12 years ago, even down to the name!

Only we didn't live in Greece but in the same country as pil.

My dh is Greek, our son was the first grandson. My pil had always said "do what you want" concerning names, we already had a daughter whose name was fine (middle name Greek).
We didn't disclose it was a boy during pregnancy and called them 4 hours after he was born.
When pil heard about ds's name (first name our choice, second name Yiorgos) they were shocked. And didn't talk to us for 4 weeks.

They were really deeply offended. They always assumed we would call him Yiorgos, no doubt about it.

To be entirely honest, after 12 years I think we should have called him Yiorgos, he would be known as George here in the UK. Or given him "our" name as second name and called him by that name.
The atmosphere at the time was awful, we stuck to our name and they had to accept it.
Half a year later my fil got cancer and was dead when my ds was 1.5 yo.

My sil and dh's brother had a son shortly after and it was no problem to name him what they wanted. It was our son, the first gc that was supposed to be called after fil and we "messed it up".

No one here can pronounce the name the Greek way anyway so we would have better called him George straight away.

I really feel for you. The situation is awful.
Please show your husband this thread. He is behaving like an idiot.
He should be supporting you. In our case it was my dh who said that pil told us they were not bothered about the name so we chose our own (had it for 5 years to be used for a son).

If you can wait, then wait with the naming. The kids are called "baby" until the christening anyway.

CinnamonAddict Sat 20-Jul-13 15:27:00

sorry first grandson, not gc.

edam Sat 20-Jul-13 15:33:43

Congratulations on the babies. How sad that your dh's family and your ruddy dh are causing a fuss and bullying you when you've just given birth - that really is a despicable way to behave.

nicelyneurotic Sat 20-Jul-13 15:45:23

Just wanted to add, please call your son a name you love. My husband named our daughter something i wasn't mad about and I regret not standing up for the name I wanted, which would have suited her better.

orangebee1 Sat 20-Jul-13 20:34:31

Thanks for the responses. The fact is i have thought about putting Yiorgos as the first name but then never using it and instead using the second name (as many people have suggested on this thread). BUT the problem is that i know because we live in Greece everyone here will just end up calling him Yiorgos, and certainly on forms and school register etc they do not have option of "preferred name to use" etc. So i'd end up being the only person to call him by my chosen name and have to hear "yiorgos" the remainder of the time which would be like sticking lit matches in my ears.

CylonNumber6 Sat 20-Jul-13 20:47:13

How has your DH been these past couple of days OP?

Inertia Sat 20-Jul-13 22:42:36

So don't give in to the pressure then. Call him by his chosen name and start making it known - when you speak to him , or talk about him , or discuss on fb.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sat 20-Jul-13 22:45:20

I take it your SIL doesn't have kids then, or not a boy at any rate?

bumpsnowjustplump Sat 20-Jul-13 23:08:03

I would be saying to dh that "I would loose a lot of respect for him if he went back on the promise he made before the wedding" Sorry but that is so rude. And very manipulative on his part.

I do think that you need to stick to your guns on this or the family will be walking over you at every turn.

Good luck and congratulations

OhMerGerd Sun 21-Jul-13 00:18:39

I hadn't clocked that you live in Greece. I feel for you and you husband and your daughter too. Your husband is probably already dealing with a whole load of family and community ribbing/ teasing/ resentments/ suspicions etc for marrying a non Greek. He possibly shares all of this with you .. It's likely he will shield you from the worst. Your son will be more Greek than he is British ( if you are brit) and will share the cultural and familial bonds with his Greek family ( unless you're planning on upping town and moving back). I doubt if he's going to mind being called after his grand dad. He will be like most of the other boys in his peer group. Are you naming your daughter. She is EQUALLY as important and if the family are expecting you to give your daughter MILs name too you have got a job on your hands. And I think this would definitely become a yanbu.
Im loathe to say yabu but I think you are a little... this will set the tone for the rest of the time you live in your adopted community. If you're planning on staying for the school years ... That's a lifetime of festering resentment and having to explain why etc etc . Who wants that really ? If you have a strong cultural ( and I mean that in a genuine tradition/ religious sense) reason for wanting to name the baby x then put your case and I am sure your ILs will accept your decision even if it takes a little time. If not ... Well I'd think about everything else I've mentioned. You need the support and trust of the people you have chosen to live amongst and to raise your children as ... Greek.

foreverondiet Sun 21-Jul-13 00:58:41

You discussed this before you were married so call your son what you want, give him the family name as middle name and tell your DH family they are welcome to call him by his middle name. Fwiw we are Jewish and lots of Jewish children have a Hebrew name as well as the names of their birth certificates. For some kids it's the name name with different pronunciation eg Sarah would be Sara or Jacob would be Yaakov etc but for others kids its a totally different name if the parents prefer a non biblical name as the child's given name. The kids know they have their regular name and their Jewish name - in the same way your son can have his given name and his Greek name and you can explain to him when he is older that some of his Greek family members like to use the Greek name.

Mimishimi Sun 21-Jul-13 01:24:04

I forgot to mention that although we gave DD her maternal great-grandmother's names and didn't give family names to DS, we do call him by his middle name! DH and his family just wanted a name from their culture at least for his first name. It's also a common Western name so no probes really but I always wanted to call my son Zach so that is his middle name and what we call him too. FiL calls him by his first name.

Mimishimi Sun 21-Jul-13 01:24:31

I meant problems, not probes!

"my husband said to me that if i insisted on sticking to a different first name he would agree BUT he would "lose some respect" for me."
I would kick his arse into next week for that angry. How fucking dare he try to bully manipulate you, when you both agreed, before you even married, that this was not going to happen. And how much respect must you have lost for a man who would go back on his word to you sad?

"I feel that if i give in to the first name demands it will cause a permanent rift between myself and his family, i will ALWAYS resent them for it and i can't see how they'd have a fruitful relationship with my children afterwards."
Absolutely.

I don't think I would even be willing to have Yiorgis as a middle name now.

ChippingInHopHopHop Sun 21-Jul-13 02:05:36

I'd do what someone else said - pack up the kids and come back to the UK, tell your DH you have lost all respect for him. Let him come grovelling when he realises what a twat he is being.

He agreed that you would choose names you both liked before you were married.

He agreed the names with you.

He is now the one caving into what his Mummy & Daddy want...??

and disgustingly telling you that he will lose respect for you and allowing his family to bully you just after you have had a c-s with twins??? What an utter twunt. HE should be looking after you, protecting you from his family and supporting you. Not acting like a complete and utter arse.

I wouldn't be having it even as a middle name now. No way.

sashh Sun 21-Jul-13 03:15:49

What ChippingInHopHopHop said.

Or tell them you are putting 'the boy' up for adoption as it will stop all the arguing.

You and your husband made an agreement, he obviously didn't tell his parents that.

He has his own family, you and the three children, and he has his old family and he needs to choose which to support.

And if he is not prepared to stick up for his son at 1 week old when will he?

takeaway2 Sun 21-Jul-13 03:51:40

Why can't you call them both names? Grandad and all Greeks can call him yogios and you can call him English name. That's what we've done with our children. One culture calls them one name and the other the other. It's fine.

xylem8 Sun 21-Jul-13 04:05:34

both dh and i each have a brother knownby their middle name.it is so common it really doesn't cause any problems

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Sun 21-Jul-13 05:58:40

Fucking hell. He would lose some respect for you, if you don't kowtow to him and his Dad...??!! shock shock

Sorry, but this sort of thing makes me incandescent with rage. I AM a feminist and proudly so, and that just yanks all my chains.

That is SUCH a telling thing for your 'D'H to say. Red flags waving all over the place. He needs to apologise for that, retract it and cop onto himself quick smart.

YoniSingWhenYoureWinning Sun 21-Jul-13 06:12:52

STAND YOUR GROUND. For the love of God, stand your ground. They CANNOT bully you into allowing them to choose your son's name. YOU are the mother. I am horrified by this!

YoniSingWhenYoureWinning Sun 21-Jul-13 06:14:18

AND your husband needs a kick up the arse for his behaviour. I would be telling him to sort his attitude or I would be packing my bags. He owes you a MASSIVE apology.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 06:39:24

There is a split of opinion on here.

You have chosen to marry a Greek and live in Greece, but object to his family wanting their son to continue Greek traditions.

Are you generally happy with your life in Greece with your DH and his family?

You have to live close to these people, his family, your DCs family.
You may not be quite so welcome there in the future.

Is this name issue really worth splitting up over?
If DH chooses to take your side he may split his family.
Is it worth it?
Would you leave your DH and move back to England over this?
Move back to be a single mum of three, just over a name.

Though of course, you can't move back until you have passports.

This should be such a joyful time for you all, but it sounds horrendous.

Best wishes to you all.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 06:56:38

Another question: are you and DH financially independent or does he work in the family business?

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 06:58:13

I agree with TimeofChange.
There is such an easy compromise - the Greek name, your 2 choices. Call him by his second name. It is very common- lots of people do it.
Much the best compromise from the child's point of view- he may grow up to feel very Greek and want the Greek name. You can't know his view when older and this way he has the choice.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 07:00:29

If you split the marriage and move back to England over a name he is unlikely to understand it when older - common sense would say 'have the compromise and both'.

middleagefrumptynumpty Sun 21-Jul-13 07:10:09

I think that you are in a difficult position because you are in Greece, living amongst their culture. If you were in the Uk I would tell you to tell them that that's not usually the form in the UK. I don't want to add insult to injury but I think that the naming of the baby may just be the tip of the ice berg. I think that your DH's family is going to want to be very heavily involved in the upbringing of your baby. Just this incident alone tells me that they have no boundaries. I think that honestly, you may have to compromise on the name in some way. HOWEVER if you do under no circumstances do you give that compromise with the left hand without taking something back with the right hand otherwise your in laws are just going to carry on getting their way.

OhMerGerd Sun 21-Jul-13 07:11:36

To those suggesting Divorce and OP leaving her DH over this issue. With week old twin babies? Really?
It's an emotional time with OPs hormones all over the shop, plus the stress of looking after newborns in what must be considerable heat and in an adopted country/culture.
I'm no push over ( my own DH will testify to this ) but the OP is not in the Uk, she has chosen to marry and live in a country with its own traditions. Yes of course she and her new family will undoubtedly break/ change/ remould some those traditions but maybe the OPs husband is also feeling exhausted, emotional and overwhelmed in the face of his families expectations. This extended network of inlaws is not going to be popping in once a month for tea and babysitting twice a year. This is likely to be a far more intimate relationship. The OP is going to need to develop a more sophisticated set of managing measures than stand your ground you are the mother ... divorce him, threaten to leave etc . She will need to pick her battles carefully and not pitch her new family, husband ( the father of her babies who is equally as important) against the rest.
If she chooses to make this her big battle, one week after birth, lets help her find some way to achieve this calmly and with the balance she needs in her life right now.
As one Greek poster advised she has plenty of time.
So let's think, how else can she approach this if going the official name used name is not the answer?
Don't forget she's got 18 years of child rearing cultural and traditional differences to negotiate her way through. It's going to be a hell of a life if there is no give and take on both sides.
Now is George out of the question 100%?

ZolaBuddleia Sun 21-Jul-13 07:20:08

OP, how do you feel about middle names in general? I think they're totally pointless, therefore in your situation I might have considered Yiorgis as the middle name.

However, they've been such absolute bastards about this, and your DH has been so weak (agree with OhMeGerd that he is probably feeling a bit wobbly too but his turn of phrase leaves lots to be desired) that I would in your position be disinclined to do this.

If there is no precedence in Greek bureaucracy for 'known as' names, then I would definitely not put Yiorgis as the first name with a plan to use his middle name.

I'd want to be out of Greece at the very first opportunity, but if that isn't an option could you move to somewhere more cosmopolitan?

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 07:32:27

Since they are such tiny babies how do we know that they are not going to feel really Greek in the future- especially if they are denied that part of their heritage?

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 07:37:47

I think if OP puts it as a middle name, the ILs will use it as his name.

Maybe OP doesn't want that at all for those who are saying-oh use it and so what if you call him something & ILs call him something else.

They should respect OP enough-& their son to let them call their own children what the bloody hell they want.

It's 2013-& not even a tradition that all Greeks still do.

What-are they pissed off that they didn't call their own kids what they wanted to & taking it out on OP?

They all sound so nasty & ignorant.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 07:56:38

But they are the child's grandparents! Do you really want to start off by saying 'half your genes come from nasty, ignorant people ?!!
Why not be sensible and compromise?

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 07:57:40

Because you don't give in to vile, nasty bullies. It just leads to problems in future when they try again and again to walk all over you.

nooka Sun 21-Jul-13 07:59:31

But the OP has already compromised (with the previous agreement of her dh) by using Yiorgos as the middle name. Moving it to be the first name is not a compromise it is a cave in. Why the bloody hell should she feel that she has no input into naming her own child? Sure it is important to acknowledge the Greek heritage of her son, and she has, but he is also half English and that heritage is every bit as important, perhaps more as she is not living in the UK.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 07:59:58

There is no compromise with bullies, is there?

It's not as if it was agreed that they would do this & OP is backtracking.

Mama1980 Sun 21-Jul-13 08:04:01

How are you doing today op?

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 08:04:31

Diddl: No doubt the family think their son and DIL should show respect to the family, as is their tradition, and give the DS the family name.

They also no doubt think the OP is being nasty & ignorant by not showing respect to her DHs family.

Op is in Greece, married to a Greek and has given birth to children who will be brought up in Greece as Greeks.

Love was no doubt blind to posssible problems caused by cultural differences.

But maybe 'when in Rome' is the best option.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 08:08:36

But it's not a tradition that everyone still follows.

So, babies have a Greek surname & are being brought up as Greeks.

So-where does their mums tradition get a look in?

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 08:08:59

They are not nasty, vile bullies.
They are trying to follow their traditions.

ZillionChocolate Sun 21-Jul-13 08:15:49

This is awful! Your husband is behaving like a complete arsehole. The time for discussion, debate and compromise was before you had jointly decided on names.

I have relatives known by their middle names and it does cause problems. Nothing insurmountable but it is a pain in the arse. Eg elderly confused aunt being called by the wrong name in hospital.

I think ywbu not to see this coming and warn the family in advance, but yanbu to call your son by the name you and DH chose for him.

Congratulations on your twins. Hope you can sort this out. If there's no hurry on registering, I would consider just leaving this for a while. You are in a vulnerable position and you need some space.

Booboostoo Sun 21-Jul-13 08:19:02

OP how do you feel about the female version of Yiorgos, Yeorgia (Georgia)? If you like that name, could it be a compromise option for your little girl?

bruffin Sun 21-Jul-13 08:23:26

Agree with Time of Change
Im half greek cypriot and have the anglicized version of my grandmothers name, but we never lived in Greece. The only thing my mum refused to compromise on was piercing my ears as a baby. If you dont understand the culture then its wrong to start shouting words like vile or bullying

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 08:23:34

No, they are trying to force someone else to follow their traditions.

alreadytaken Sun 21-Jul-13 08:26:20

you married a greek man and you live in Greece. You said "I also want to add that the grandfather has always been lovely to me, and i really do respect him, he is from a tiny village and 84 years old so it's a totally different mentality. I understand his pain, but i can't have MY wishes as the MOTHER dismissed in this archaic way."

Name days are very important in Greece and will be important to your child. His relationship with his Greek family will be important to him. I'm assuming he's the eldest grandchild and at 84 the grandfather may not live to see another grandson born. Even if he did the name marks the family's acceptance of your son's place as eldest grandson. So I think it was unreasonable of you to specify before you married that you wouldn't name an eldest grandson in the Greek fashion. Your husband is probably being told he's not a man for letting you act this way. Of course it's unreasonable for him to go back on a promise and not to support his wife in this but you are unreasonable to place him, and your son in future, in such a difficult position. You are putting your needs before your family. Of course if he's not the eldest then the arguments are less strong.

I think you should consider why this is so important to you and why you dislike the name so much when the grandfather has been lovely to you. If you lived in England you'd be acting reasonably but when in Rome do as the Romans do. It suggests there are other things you are unhappy about and a name is becoming a focus for that.

What did you name your first daughter and was she the eldest granddaughter?

takeaway2 Sun 21-Jul-13 08:35:49

From the inlaws pov they are probably wondering why their DIL isn't respecting them? It's full well saying they are not respecting her and her wishes but what about their wishes and traditions? You can't just say 'not all Greeks do this so it's just inconvenient that her inlaws do!'

In some cultures the naming thing is one of their ways of keeping the family tree intact through generational names or through traditional names. It's not on really to say 'why doesn't sil then name her own child the fils name' because the sil will have her husband's family names to contend with.

Whether this is an issue about feminism or not is a separate issue. Fwiw my children have two middle names. The first name is a name we both chose, the first middle name belongs to dh's granny (dd) and another name we liked (DS), second middle name is their other culture name. At the language school, my DS is known by his other name.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer Sun 21-Jul-13 08:36:22

Has the plan always been to stay in Greece permanently, OP?

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 08:37:08

Diddl: Yes indeed, but she was not forced to marry her Greek husband, nor forced to live in Greece with him.

By choosing to marry into a different culture and live in that country you are by default, choosing those traditions.

The issue is a name.
Op even likes the grandad who the baby would be named after.
Op says it would be like a slap in the face with a fish for the old man if the baby does not have his name.

The issue is not genital mutilation or anything life threatening.
It is a name.

ZolaBuddleia Sun 21-Jul-13 08:38:20

Your husband is probably being told he's not a man for letting you act this way.

This is exactly why the whole situation would be unacceptable to many women.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 08:41:54

So she should just put up with using a name she doesn't want to?

It's 2013 & OP is not from their culture.

Maybe OP's ILs need to respect her also & realise that their way isn't the only way.

It's only a slap in the face/big deal if they let it be.

And for the fact that some have already been mocking the old man-& they think that they & their traditions should be respected??!!

bruffin Sun 21-Jul-13 08:46:06

YOu do know this is not a man thing, it's the same for girls and grandmothers, as I said above I was named after my grandmother, but anglicized

WidowWadman Sun 21-Jul-13 08:46:31

To those who suggest that she should pack the kids and go back to the UK - that actually would be child abduction - a parent must not take the children out of the country without the other parents' consent.
Some people erroneously believe that mothers have more rights than the father, but I doubt that a court would look kindly on her abducting the children.

I also don't think that the father is necessarily a prat - the poor sod is stuck between a rock and a hard place, either upsetting his wife or his family and quite likely both.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 08:50:29

It is 2013 and OP has chosen to join their culture and live in their culture.

She may be making her future life in Greece difficult by not respecting their culture.
She may need to do this for herself and not for them.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Sun 21-Jul-13 08:59:56

Understanding a little more why women put up with being second-class citizens for century after century after century.

It really is a hell of a lot easier just to not rock the boat, put up and shut up, right....?

hmm

bruffin Sun 21-Jul-13 09:05:34

Understanding a little more why women put up with being second-class citizens for century after century after century.
What on earth is this to do with women. It could easily be the reverse a mother wanting to name her child culturally and the father wanting something different. What would posters say then.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Sun 21-Jul-13 09:07:14

Funnily enough, it's not though, is it? It's a husband and his father. Both from a very patriarchal country.

DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper Sun 21-Jul-13 09:08:42

I'm referring to the influx of recent posters to thread, urging the OP to just accept it. Not the bulk of sensible replies earlier on.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 09:11:28

Don: It's not about feminism.

As I keep saying OP has chosen, by marrying him and living in his country, to join his culture.

We're not talking about being beaten up, we are talking about a name.
One of them will have to back down.

So you think if OP backs down, she becomes a second class citizen?
So if DH backs down does that make him a second class citizen too?

bruffin Sun 21-Jul-13 09:11:49

As i said the same would happen if it was a girl first born.

cantreachmytoes Sun 21-Jul-13 09:13:31

My DH and I are from different cultures. We live in a third country. He has a bigger family than me. When members of his family visit, there is very much the implication that the way THEY do things in THEIR country is normal. I just am a bit "different". They are really lovely, but when I was recently ill and some came to help, it was truly awful to feel that what I needed/wanted wasn't "right" and I've never ft so isolated in my life.

OP I can only begin to imagine how you feel right now.

The last thing you may feel like doing is fighting, but your DH needs to figure out who he's married to: you or his family.

I think you should also tell his family that you have no idea why there is all this fuss as you had agreed prior to marriage that you wouldn't follow Greek OR UK naming traditions (for diplomacy) and the names were decided before the birth. You are worried about the health of the twins with all this fighting and would love their GPs to love them for being wonderful babies, not for their names.

And as for DH, I understand how he can cave to his family's pressure, but that doesn't make it right. And what he said, given the circumstances, is unforgivable. He needs to be in awe of you and what you've just done: when his body grows, takes care of and then delivers life, then he can cave to family pressure. In the meantime, he needs to behave life a responsible, respectable partner in life.

Good luck, good luck, good luck.

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 09:15:18

It's not their traditions that are making them nasty, vile bullies, it's their behaviour and attitude.

alemci Sun 21-Jul-13 09:16:49

I think it is a bit more difficult for the poster if she is living abroad. she does need to tread carefully. I didn't realise this when the thread was started

If she was in the UK it would be alot easier

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 09:19:25

The OP has her own culture which needs to be respected.

The OP's DH agreed to not naming his son after his father so it's not a case of him backing down it's a case of him sticking to what he's already agreed to.

cantreachmytoes Sun 21-Jul-13 09:19:46

Oh and living in his culture does NOT mean that OP has given up her culture!

If they moved to the UK, would get DH cease being Greek? If they moved to Spain, would they become Spanish - I think the number of British bars areas of Spain popular with Brits is testament to just how much we DON'T lost our culture when we leave our country's borders.

OP has UK culture and has added some Greek. Her DH (and to a lesser extent his family) have their Greek culture and have added UK to the mix. The children are not Greek. The children are Greek-British, or British-Greek.

OP is not a Greek woman wanting to do something different, she's British and they want her to accept them in direct proportion to how much they want to ignore her culture (never mind wishes).

Did you not think about any of these things when you decided to marry a Greek man and live in Greece?

It is always hard when you settle in a new country and want to do things your way rather than integrate and do it the way it is done in your new homeland.

We see this in Britain too, "forriners" refusing to adapt and do it "like we do here". hmm And all the issues related to that.

People just cant seem to be open minded and accepting of all our little and big differences.

kooksi Sun 21-Jul-13 09:25:41

Yes she did Quin :/

WidowWadman Sun 21-Jul-13 09:29:59

cantreach - if it was UK culture to never give a child his grandfather's name under any circumstances you may have more of a point.

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 09:33:05

Did you not think about any of these things when you decided to marry a Greek man and live in Greece?

One of the conditions of marriage was that they wouldn't name any son they had after the grandfather.

bumpsnowjustplump Sun 21-Jul-13 09:34:00

All those saying she chose to marry into a Greek family and live in freeze so should just lump it.. She married a greekman ON THE CONDITION this particular tradition was not followed. She was open and honest and her husband agreed. So she was lied to and ultimately deceived and now she is isolated and vulnerable the husband has denigrated on the agreement..... This is what is bullying and vile..

karinmaria Sun 21-Jul-13 09:36:26

Quint - the OP has said in previous posts that she had the names discussion with her DH before they were married. Her DH agreed that they would call any son they may have a name they chose together.

Her DH has now gone back on that agreement following a big row from his parents and sister after announcing the babies' chosen names.

This situation has stressed the OP so much her milk has not come in properly as the row started before she was even home from hospital and the twins were still in intensive care!

OP for what it's worth YANBU. Yes it's a tradition but your DH already agreed with you. Why on earth he feels its ok to change his mind, and make you feel guilty about your previous agreement, I cannot understand.

bumpsnowjustplump Sun 21-Jul-13 09:37:04

^^my phone makes up its own words grr

pinkfelttippen Sun 21-Jul-13 09:40:55

A friend is married to a Turk, living in Turkey. Apparently they mostly don't have middle names, just the one name, but when they do have middle names, it's the middle name that's used. So when my friend named her son with two names, she was initially confused about why some people consistently referred to him by his middle name. But that's why.

Is there a small chance that it's the same in Greece? So you could use the Grandad's name in the first position, but actually call your son by your chosen 'middle' name?

I also don't think 'vile' and 'bullying' are necessarily true here. Imagine another perspective - can't think of a good one - but let's say that when your son is an adult, he decides to join one of those religions where polygamy is acceptable. And then begins marrying a stream of ladies. Would you be totally accepting of that? Or would you find it difficult to stomach simply because it's not your own tradition, or the culture into which you have been conditioned?

Not a good example, but I do think you need to find a compromise here, particularly since you live in Greece and your son's future would appear to be there.

norkmonster Sun 21-Jul-13 09:46:40

Why, in a marriage of two cultures, is it always the woman who has chosen to marry into the man's culture? Why is it never the man who has married into the woman's culture and should respect it?

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 09:48:16

The in-laws behaviour has caused the OP so much stress that her milk production has halted. I'd say that's more likely to be the result of bullying behaviour than reasonable, well thought out disagreement.

JenaiMorris Sun 21-Jul-13 09:54:06

Has the OP explained why she has such an issue with following the tradition?

If the custom here was that grandchildren were named after their maternal grandparents and that naming them after their paternal grandparents was going to upset the English family then I can understand - but otherwise I really, really don't.

And bloody hell what new kind of twattery it is suggesting a post partum woman breaks up a family over a bloody name? I know the Baby Name board gets quite heated but purlease - this is ridiculous (and from my feminist perspective pretty un-bloody feminist).

OP, I wish you luck. We all have to make compromises - in your shoes that's exactly what I'd do.

SanityClause Sun 21-Jul-13 10:00:21

Umm, nork, because they live in the husband's country. Also, the husband's family has a strong tradition of naming, where the OP's family doesn't.

I am from another anglophone country, but live in the UK. My children have dual nationality, but I think that if you asked them, they would not feel strongly that they were my nationality. If we all lived in my country, I think they would feel more strongly that they belonged there.

I think the OP has rejected compromises, like giving the grandfather's name, but using her choice as a middle name. She needs to be a bit more sensitive to other people's feelings, I think.

I don't like the husband's statement about losing respect for her, but I can see why he said it. Would I lose respect for someone who cared so little about other people's strong feelings? I think I would.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 10:00:42

I am astounded that people are saying she married him & lives in his country & should "suck it up".

I thought that we lived in the 21st century!

ZolaBuddleia Sun 21-Jul-13 10:00:56

But the OP has already compromised by agreeing the use of the name as a middle name.

It's a name! It's important. She should be able to veto it even if she just doesn't like it.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 10:03:35

"She needs to be a bit more sensitive to other people's feelings, I think.

I don't like the husband's statement about losing respect for her, but I can see why he said it. Would I lose respect for someone who cared so little about other people's strong feelings? I think I would."

OMFG.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 10:03:42

Why, in a marriage of two cultures, is it always the woman who has chosen to marry into the man's culture? Why is it never the man who has married into the woman's culture and should respect it?

In this case because OP has gone to live in his country.

Op I hope you are ok and I wish you well.

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 10:05:21

The OP and her DH had an agreement.

He should stick to it.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 10:07:34

Diddl: In Greece in the 21stC, there are family traditions to naming babies.

What is so terrible about that?

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 10:09:05

Nothing terrible if it's what both parents want.

Flibbedyjibbet Sun 21-Jul-13 10:22:25

This is tricky, it sounds like your husband, the Greek not you, wasn't even aware of the tradition or assumed he could "get away with it" in which case it doesn't sound like it is an important tradition to him or in his family.

However in a Greek family, it is really important. My Uncle (silently) has never got over the fact that his daughter didn't name after him. In fact to him it is a little embarrassing amongst his friends and family as it's deemed a bit of a slight. It really isn't a myth that there are so many Peter's and George's around, it's due to hand down names.

I know a lot of people (on here) will poo poo the idea of tradition and shout for doing what you want, to suit you and fuck them all. It's got to be what you're comfy with, it's not your culture/tradition but it is your husband's and the child is his too. I must say though I would be a bit galled by his backtracking, fine if he had said it from the beginning.

For what it's worth, I followed tradition. 1st born was after maternal grandmother (loved the name thankfully) and if our second had been a boy would have been after paternal grandfather (didn't really like it for a baby in 2012 but I would have done it and known that within days the name would just be the perfect one for baby as always happen..... Had a girl phew!

anonacfr Sun 21-Jul-13 10:22:33

Exactly. She was obviously aware of the tradition and was upfront about it. HER HUSBAND AGREED!

Quite frankly it sounds to me that he agreed to 'lock the marriage down' but as soon as the reality of the situation hit he immediately sided with his family.

For those of you who say it's not a patriarchal thing and the tradition also applies to granddaughters/grandmothers, how come there wasn't an issue about girl names when the OP and her husband discussed the situation?

And for those who say 'it's a name, suck it up'. How would you like it if having decided jointly with your partner what to call your baby you were then told he had to be given a name you didn't like and which incidentally will be difficult to pronounce/spell whenever he visits his maternal country?

I have a name that is unpronounceable in any language but mine. When my children were conceived the one condition I had for name choosing was that they would have names that existed in both languages.

JenaiMorris Sun 21-Jul-13 10:22:45

I would lose respect for someone who dug their heels in so extraordinarily. That applies to all involved, tbh.

quoteunquote Sun 21-Jul-13 10:28:14

We have a family naming tradition,

That you get to name your baby any name that you want.

funnily enough if you don't get to name your own baby, you will never get to name a baby,

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 10:32:47

Maybe OP should compromise by using names from her family??

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 10:33:27

When girls are named after the GM-which GM is that?

comingintomyown Sun 21-Jul-13 10:38:40

OP what name would you choose then ?

I just wondered if would be an English name and how that would be for your son living in Greece ?

Presumably to have actually stipulated before agreeing to marry him that you wouldnt follow the naming tradition you knew what a big deal this would be ? Did his family know about it straight from the off too ?

I really really feel for you and I hope things can get resolved soon so you can just start to enjoy your lovely twin babies. What a shame the focus isnt on the wonder of twins instead of all this

bruffin Sun 21-Jul-13 10:39:21

For those of you who say it's not a patriarchal thing and the tradition also applies to granddaughters/grandmothers, how come there wasn't an issue about girl names when the OP and her husband discussed the situation?

Because it is a first born thing. However it appears OP already has a child and named them presumably what she wanted and maybe the Father had second thoughts afterwards and regretted not going with tradition afterwards.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 10:43:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 10:48:40

I agree with coming.

It is a shame that the emphasis is on this name problem rather than the joy of the babies.

I would think acquiescing is the best option, as Op will need the support of DHs family in the coming months and years.

mum11970 Sun 21-Jul-13 11:02:00

I'm amazed that it has been left right up to the actually birth of a boy until this was brought up with the grandparents. If it was discussed before marriage then, I'm assuming, the op and her husband knew this was going to be a contentious issue, so why oh why did neither of them warn the grandparents that, should they have a male child in the future, they would not be following the traditional Greek naming of the child. This would have given everyone plenty of time to get used to it and the op wouldn't be going through such a hard time now.

comingintomyown Sun 21-Jul-13 11:07:24

Thats what I wondered too

alreadytaken Sun 21-Jul-13 11:09:43

the family are living in Greece and the child will presumably grow up there so surrounded by Greek culture and a Greek family. What is best for the child and when do his rights get a mention? This isn't something to break up a family over. If the family were living in England I'd expect the child to have an English name and be following English traditions, with a Greek second name, if intending to stay in Greece I'd give them a Greek first name and an English second.

The elder daughter was possibly not the first born granddaughter and the naming tradition is, I suspect, less pronounced after the firstborn.

I come back to what else is wrong and why does it matter so much? Why the dislike of the name of someone who's been kind to you? Perhaps the OP feels smothered by the Greek family or undervalued by them?

JenaiMorris Sun 21-Jul-13 11:14:18

Is the op's daughter actually the first granddaughter? I imagine either she was indeed named after her paternal grandmother (and the OP liked the name so was ok with that) or she isn't the first grandchild.

Clearly the OP deserves to be cut a huge amount of slack but look at some of the language she uses. She's not coming across well and I'm surprised so many posters are egging her on.

JenaiMorris Sun 21-Jul-13 11:19:20

Lord and putting the names on Facebook, in full knowledge of just how significant this naming convention is, appears deliberately inflammatory.

Do people ever do this, unless they're after a reaction?

ByTheWishingWell Sun 21-Jul-13 11:20:13

I find all the comments advising you to go along with just because it's tradition ridiculous. When your PIL's named their babies, they chose to follow tradition. That is where their say in the matter ends- these are your babies, it is now your turn, and so it is entirely the choice of you and your DH whether or not you continue this tradition. I think offering to use your FIL's name as a middle name is a lovely gesture and fair compromise.

I can see that your DH is in a very unpleasant situation with his family (which I agree, could maybe have been avoided if they had been aware of this choice before the birth), but that absolutely does not excuse him joining in their bullying of you. He should be apologising to you and explaining firmly to his family that you have agreed on names and that decision is final.

My DP's family are quite traditional, and I know that his grandfather isn't too impressed that our DC is to have my surname instead of his, but my DP had shielded me from this (I have no idea what's actually been said), and has never tried to back down from a decision we mutually agreed on. I think that after what you've been through, that should be the least that you can expect.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 11:21:33

Jeez, isn't OP just allowed to not like the name & therefore not want to use it?

She was willing to have it as a middle name.

Why should thee child have a Greek first name just because he lives there?

(Although that may be what OP was intending)

Are the Greeks really so small minded that an English mother giving her son an English name & a Greek middle name would be completely incomprehensible/unacceptable?

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 11:24:19

Maybe the OP and DH put the name on FB because DH was worried about telling his family.

Is it usual in 2013 to announce babies names on FB before informing GPs in a more personal way?

clam Sun 21-Jul-13 11:26:14

My FIL's name was Brian. There is no way on God's earth I would have agreed to name ds that!

Jan49 Sun 21-Jul-13 11:26:54

If everyone continues to follow a naming tradition for fear of upsetting the older relatives, then that tradition will continue and new generations will face the same dilemma. I also don't think that this tradition in Greece is anywhere near as strong as people are suggesting.

OP's h had an agreement with her and is now going back on it under family pressure. I think OP and her h should name their dc as they choose and the gps will get over it. I posted on this thread about a friend whose FIL wanted the second dd named a female version of his name. Despite this not happening, the whole family is close and the name is not an issue. Who knows, perhaps the FIL harbours resentment over it, but that's his problem. In the UK you may get older relatives who think a married woman should do all the cooking and cleaning and shouldn't do paid work, but I wouldn't expect any woman to go along with that just to avoid offending the older generation.

badbride Sun 21-Jul-13 11:27:02

I think the Greek family is being completely unreasonable, OP. You have already agreed to pass on the grandfather's name as your DS's middle name. So you have indeed respected their culture.

They, in turn, need to respect yours by accepting your choice of first name.

In your shoes, I would simply say to them: "This baby is a child of 2 cultures, and as such, has two names to reflect this. One chosen by his parents, as is done in UK culture, and another to honour his beloved grandfather, as is done in Greek culture. You can choose to call him by one, the other, or both, but please stop arguing about it. We have made our decision and are not prepared to discuss it further."

The simply refuse to talk about it--if you discuss it with them, it will make them think they are entitled to have some input into your naming choices, and things will get worse.

Mumsyblouse Sun 21-Jul-13 11:27:22

Are the Greeks really so small minded that an English mother giving her son an English name & a Greek middle name would be completely incomprehensible/unacceptable?

When you enter into a mixed culture marriage, you can't just dismiss other people's traditions as 'small-minded' if you want the marriage to succeed. I actually agree with the OP that if she feels very strongly about not naming the child, she shouldn't, but equally I think dismissing the fall-out in terms of culture is quite narrow minded- in many cultures, such as my husband's, naming traditions are very important and while you can kick against that or refuse to participate, you have to do so with sensitivity and respect, not just a like it or lump it and post it on Facebook attitude. My children have patronyms based on their father's names but their first names are both our choices, made to try and work in both cultures.

I don't think you can have a 'who cares about their ridiculous culture' attitude' when your children are going to be half that culture. Yours is not superior, just different and it's a matter of tone and respect to get that across while getting your own way when it is important to you not to follow their traditions.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 11:30:37

Exactly-neither culture is superior.

So, a name from each culture?

But then would the argument be that the Greek name must be the one he is known by?

rabbitlady Sun 21-Jul-13 11:33:35

i did some family tree stuff through the census. it was really helpful that my relatives, going back 200 years, have a 'john edmund', in every generation.
name your son after his grandad. you can call him anything you like.

Mumsyblouse Sun 21-Jul-13 11:33:50

In one culture, having the family name be the name that the child is known by is important- it's fine to ignore that and make a break with tradition, but you can't pretend that by giving it as a second name it has the same significance to the family, because it doesn't.

rosyryan Sun 21-Jul-13 11:33:55

I hate a lot of the husband-bashing that can go on on these boards but I really do think that your husband is completely and utterly out of order in this instance. How dare he tell you that he will lose respect for you over this when it is him that has done the U-turn and caved to his family's opinion. I don't know how you are going to forgive him and move past this if he can't back down and apologise to you.

burberryqueen Sun 21-Jul-13 11:33:55

also this kind of thing could sour relations for years to come.
why not just call him Yiorgos and be done with it after all OP you have to live there for the next X amount of years and so does your son.

badbride Sun 21-Jul-13 11:36:44

A name from each seems like the sensible solution diddl. And I think one could be quite laid back about what the different members of the family call the baby. Say, for example, his name is James Yiorgis, he could be nicknamed anything from Jamesie, Jim, Jimmy, James-Yiorgis, to Yiorgis, Yiorgi or whatever other diminutive suits.

For example, my DSIL goes by her middle name, while my DMIL and DFIL insist on calling her by her first name. It might sound a bit mad, but it works and keeps everyone happy.

anonacfr Sun 21-Jul-13 12:04:23

Maybe the OP put the names on FB because as far as she was concerned she had told her husband pre-marriage that she would not name any firstborn son of theirs after his father- he had agreed and they had subsequently picked out names together?
If she lives in Greece of course she was going to put the names on FB to announce the birth to all her friends and relatives back in the UK.

Reading back the OP she says her husband was taken aback by his parents' reaction. It sounds as if he wasn't expecting that tradition to be such a big deal and they are his parents!

And the OP does say she doesn't like the name at all. It is perfectly possible to love/like a person and hate their name. There is no way I would want to give a child of mine a name I don't like. Tradition or not.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 12:19:56

Re the name on FB: Is that how people communicate with the parents these days.
Would you not ring your parents first before putting it on FB?

I think I would be a bit sad if my DCs announced their babies' names on FB without telling me first.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:28:46

If you marry someone from another culture it seems only fair to meet in the middle- it is so simple here to take a name from each. In my family history we have names that go down the generations from 200 years ago and it is lovely. There is one that I should have but wasn't given it- it could, so easily, have been a second and third name for me.
It is so common to have a first name that you don't use that it isn't even remarked on.
No one knows what your DS will think in years to come- if he was mine I would like him to have a name from both and not have had a war zone over the decision!

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:29:38

FB is a very rude way to announce names!

KateCroydon Sun 21-Jul-13 12:29:39

Congratulations! You're a feminist.

CinnamonAddict Sun 21-Jul-13 12:29:59

OP, I really think your husband was vvu when he agreed to not name a son after his granddad.
He should have forseen this chaos. He was probably like my dh, he knew about the tradition but thought it wasn't a big deal.
We were just far enough away from Greece for it to become such an issue, mainly because pil stopped talking to us and we had to name the baby within a week.

I hope you are recovering well from the birth and let this mess settle a bit.
You need time to find put what you can happily live with. Don't let anyone pressure you into a decision.

I actually disagree with the comments about boundaries etc. There is no indication that the Pil will want to interfere constantly, this is purely about tradition.

orangebee1 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:35:19

THE PROPOSED COMPROMISE

Since i last posted my husband and i have discussed a compromise and i was hoping for some feedback on it.

1. We will agree on a first name, provided the second name is Yiorgos.
2. His family can all call him by Yiorgos and that includes when they are at our house.
3. All three of our children will be christened, and at the Christening Yiorgos will be placed as the FIRST name (BUT this is just a religious name and the system here is separate for the official name which will be something different.).

The way i feel right now i don't ever want to see the name Yiorgos again, but i realise i will need to compromise to keep things together here.

I am so anti-christening the children, i never wanted to do this and neither did my husband - until now. I don't mind if they are older when they can chose religion for themselves, but i hate the thought of doing this now. That said i agreed to just the boy being christened, but it's not enough - my husband wants all of them done.

Also about his family calling him by "yiorgos" - fine again, this (my husband says) includes when we go to their village - the entire village will call him yiorgos, or to families houses - everyone in those places will know him by yiorgos. Fine again - BUT not in MY HOUSE. In my own home i'd like my wishes to be respected - is that reasonable??

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:39:40

I am all for compromise but I wouldn't call it a compromise!
I would say yes to the christening and the formal name but insist that he has his everyday name.

MardyBra Sun 21-Jul-13 12:40:30

Delurking here.

What about your husband"losing respect for you". Whatever compromise position you reach ( and this will inevitably be picked over with a fine-toothed comb on here), a sincere apology from him should be part of the package.

comingintomyown Sun 21-Jul-13 12:41:13

It all sounds very messy and why has a christening come into it , I am confused !

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:41:44

The child himself will have an opinion. If I was the child I would be refusing to answer to difficult people who insisted on a different name.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:44:18

I do think that you ought to talk to DH and tell him that it is a formal name, he is expected to call him by his everyday name, he will introduce him as his everyday name, he will go to school with his everyday name and his parents can go out on a limb if they wish to sound odd.

CylonNumber6 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:44:26

Glad you've been able to compromise and that you get to call him the first name you want.

Do you really expect his family to respect your wishes though and call him his real name in your home?

As for the Christening, I'd let it go tbh. Try and see it as a cultural tradition rather than a religious one.

How has your husband been with you? its his change of stance that concerns me more than anything.

clam Sun 21-Jul-13 12:45:18

Hmm, doesn't sound like much of a compromise to me. You've given an awful lot of ground here I think.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 12:45:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 12:46:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:47:15

I have said all along that you need compromise- as it stands it is not compromise- you have given way and will be the outsider who uses a different name. It isn't fair.

CylonNumber6 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:47:30

Sorry OP, I've just read it again.

If they're able to call him Yiorgos in your house then its not actually a compromise is it?

Sounds like they are getting their own way.

Hope you're ok, you really don't need this right now.

Does your DH see he has been horrid and unsupportive towards you?

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 12:47:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 12:48:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fuzzywuzzy Sun 21-Jul-13 12:49:09

So you're agreement not to call your child Yiorgis before marriage has been over ridden.

You wish not to christen your children is over ridden.

Your husband has been pretty unpleasant towards you in defending his families traditions which he previous said he wasn't really into.

If you go ahead with this compromise, be sure your child will be called Yiorgis by everyone everywhere.

I'd go thro with the proposal if you're happy with that.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 12:49:14

It would be more of a compromise if he was George.

CylonNumber6 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:49:35

it looks like they have absolutely no respect for you and your feelings. you gave birth to him, not your FIL.

sad

FingersCrossedLegsNot Sun 21-Jul-13 12:49:51

Another delurker, your compromise sounds like its a sneaky way of conning you into having your ds constantly called Yiorgos. It sounds to me as pretty much everywhere you go he will be called Yiorgos. Your dh needs to grow a pair and stop bullying you.

CinnamonAddict Sun 21-Jul-13 12:50:00

orange, we did this, our pil never called him Yiorgos, as it was not the first name. He was given both names at christening, didn't matter.

Where will the christening be?

The pil will still be insulted if you call him by your name.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 12:50:35

OP: Glad for you that it is sorted.
You can now enjoy being a family.

Ignore the nutters on here who would prefer you to LTB.

You will look back and laugh about this in future years.
Best wishes to you all.

CylonNumber6 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:51:35

At what point has anyone said LTB???

badbride Sun 21-Jul-13 12:52:15

The proposed compromise is no compromise at all. It's an underhand attempt to effectively force you to name your DS Yiorgos, by making it so that you are the only person calling him by his correct given name. In detail:

1. This is fine and a sensible way forward. The child has one UK name and one Greek name to reflect his heritage.
2. I think it's fine for the Greek family to call him by his Greek name when he's visiting them. It is not OK for them to ignore his given name in your house. At your house, he is called by the name you have chosen.
3. This is a red herring, an attempt to distract you from the main argument. Whether or not to christen the children is a seperate issue, and one that you should argue over at a much later stage (as it will be extremely sensistive!).

So I would insist on your side of the bargain being respected when folk are under your roof. And say that you will discuss the christening issue later, when you feel up to it. For what it's worth, I wouldn't capitulate--if the child is to be christened, it should be with the names in the correct order. As a sweetener, I would offer to add in a third Greek family forename as a christening name.

LifeHuh Sun 21-Jul-13 12:52:17

Um,one question?
What is your husband planning on calling him? Particularly when at his family's house?
I can see a situation where immediate family call him one thing and slightly more extended family another might work,but I'm not sure about the scenario where everyone calls him Yiorgos except for you,which your compromose sounds as if it might be?

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 12:52:43

I hope the OP stops reading this thread now.
All this criticism of her could be upsetting.

clam Sun 21-Jul-13 12:54:06

Even with this, they're still going to be offended every time they hear you calling him by "your" name. It will be a reminder to them that you would not follow their tradition, even of they did get their way on most of it.
I reckon it would be better to pull the sticking plaster off in one go, call him what you originally intended, and let them deal with it.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 12:55:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 21-Jul-13 12:56:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clam Sun 21-Jul-13 12:56:43

Timeofchange are you reading the same thread as the rest of us? Noone has told the OP to LTB and no one is criticising her either.
ANd it has NOT been sorted. She asked what we thought of the proposal. That doesn't mean she's accepted it.

ZolaBuddleia Sun 21-Jul-13 12:56:58

Gosh OP, that's all very one sided. So, the only people who call him his real name in your house are you and your DH when nobody else is there?

I'd want it to be the other way round, Yiorgis is only used as the first name at the christening (are you atheist?)

In all other circumstances including legal registration, passport etc you must have the right name first, and your husband should only ever use the name you (both) chose, in your house, in the village, wherever. I bet he'll crumble and call him Yiorgis whenever you're not there.

that's no compromise at all. I could see calling him Bob yiorgos as long as there's a christening and in that he's yiorgis bob. that's a compromise. but the entire his family will calk him yiorgos including in your house bit - no. what is the point then in naming him bob at all?

apologies for spelling and making up a first name?

Mumsyblouse Sun 21-Jul-13 12:59:27

I think you have to face the fact that this compromise will end up with him being called the name you don't want. If you really don't want this to happen- then I would make a stand now. I am sensitive to my husband's cultural traditions, don't pick fights over most of them, but the ones I really disagree with (ear piercing for girls) I don't do. If this is that one for you, I would make a stand now. You are in Greece, if everyone there and your own husband calls him Yiorgos, that will be his name (though as a mum you often use pet names).

Christening is another issue entirely, I was fine to have mine christened on the basis that it was very meaningful for my husband for religious reasons (not just for show). Again- is this a bottom-line issue for you?

If I had a son (unlikely now) I would call him by the grandfather's name but would pick an English compatible spelling as it would mean an immense amount to him. If you do not feel like that about it or really hate the name with a vengeance, make this the thing you stand up for yourself over. But you can't do that with everything and I agree it is harder for you as you are living there and are quite isolated.

So sorry OP, but the proposed 'compromise' has set such alarm bells ringing for me sad. Your husband is riding rough-shod over things that are important to you. First the name, now christenings - what will be next? You're fairly isolated over there, and he has all his family behind him - so what next? Having 'won', I would think they will be emboldened to override your wishes on anything they damned well please in the future - schools, attire, diet, discipline - they will all be subject to 'family approval'. Sorry to be such a doom-monger, but I just cannot see this child-naming in isolation, it will just sit within the larger expanse of family traditions that you will be forced expected to adhere to sad. Any agreements you have with your husband will be subject to change if his parents/sister/fourth cousin deem it so.

If everyone around him except you calls him Yiorgos, then surely your son will regard himself as Yiorgos and whatever you call him as just a pet name? How would you feel about that?

It is entirely reasonable to want your wishes to be respected, but I fear that it is just not going to happen here, with this husband's family. I am so sorry.

LifeHuh Sun 21-Jul-13 13:09:10

TimeOfChange,I haven't read this thread as being critical of the OP. Of her DH,maybe... It is a difficult situation,and it seems sad to me that it is a situation the OP had considered,discussed with her DH and that she'd thought was sorted,only to discover that it wasn't.

The lesson from this for me is that you can agree prechildren what you will do about names,family,upbringing etc but once the children are born all bets are off,particularly if "culture" is involved.

OP,I really hope you find a solution that will leave everyone happy in the longterm,and also that you can get on with enjoying your family.

Jan49 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:09:38

That doesn't sound like a compromise at all, OP. If you go along with it your child will be known as Yiorgos, which is what you don't want.sad

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 13:13:05

Basically he will be called Yiorgos and you have the concession that you can call him by his second name! Where is the compromise? confused
It also means you haven't even got that when he is older because when talking to teachers, friends etc you will be forced to explain that you are talking about 'Yiorgos'.

TalkativeJim Sun 21-Jul-13 13:13:12

That isn't a compromise.

It's your husband and his family bullying you.

I suggest you think again. Basically your son is going to have the name...except on one tiny bit of paper that won't be referred to again. He's going to have the other name in your house? Except...it won't be used by your inlaws, it won't be used by your husband, and everywhere he goes your child is going to be referred to as Yiorgios.

It goes without saying that when you aren't there, your inlaws (and probably your cowardly, deceitful, disloyal little shit of a husband) will be coaching your boy to answer to Yiorgios, telling him that's his real name.

I give it two years before the name you want is never, ever used and your son doesn't even recognise it.

It's also the perfect tool for constant low level acrimony. You call son 'xxx' at family party. MIL interjects - 'Yes, do as your mother says YIORGIOS'. You - 'come on xxxx, come over here.' 'YIORGIOS is just talking to ME at the moment' continues FIL.

I wouldn't even go there.

And as for the christening!!! - no! You don't want it!

These. Are. Your. Children.

clam Sun 21-Jul-13 13:18:36

You are an adult, married with children. Since when did parents tell us what to do at this stage of our lives?

Zazzles007 Sun 21-Jul-13 13:20:59

I have been following this thread from the beginning, and I don't think its a compromise either, its capitulation. Your H and his family are bullying you so that they get what they want. sad

RaisingChaotic Sun 21-Jul-13 13:21:50

I'm sorry OP but that is not a compromise. The only one I would consider agreeing to is number 1.

OxfordBags Sun 21-Jul-13 13:23:49

This isn't a compromise, OP, this is you having to capitulate because you're not being respected enough to be allowed any other option. The only compromise being made here is that you're being allowed to delude yourself it's a compromise that you've played some part in, instead of just being bullied outright and told that you have no choice.

You don't want your son being called Yiorgos; everyone is going to call him that. You don't want your DC to be christened; they're going to be christened. You know - you MUST know - that everyone, probably including your DH, is going to call him Yiorgos including in your own home. They will say that they've forgotten that he is not to be called that in one specific place when he is called that by everyone, everywhere else (which is actually logical and reasonable). You will look like a weirdo, a troublemaker, maybe even a mother unable to accept her son, seeing ad you now have 2 DDs, when you call him a name that no-one else calls him. It will probably hurt and upset him to have you call him a name that no-one else calls him. He will probably feel rejected and confused. And because you are acquiescing to this blackmailing and sexism, the way he will be brought up means he won't ever understand why you do it.

Do you know who I actually feel most sorry for? Your DDs. One of them only a few days old, they are both being taught from before they are even aware of it that they matter less than their brother - less than all men, in fact.

This is not culture, this is putting you in your place; at the bottom of the pecking order. This is misogyny. There are ways of working round cultural differences thatmeans everyone is happy. If they cared about you, if they believed you were a person with equal rights to them, this would be happening. And it's not.

Wishfulmakeupping Sun 21-Jul-13 13:25:15

OP if you're ok with the compromise then do it because you want to.
Whatever you do try and do it quickly I want you to be able to enjoy your babies not worry about fall outs and arguments

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 13:29:41

So you can name your son what you want, but no one will really call him it?

Fuck that!

Crumbledwalnuts Sun 21-Jul-13 13:32:29

I agree with Claim.

squoosh Sun 21-Jul-13 13:32:45

Oh OP this is a sorry sort of 'compromise'.

You've been brow beaten into accepting this as a happy medium when it's clearly anything but. Two years from now the name you call him will be all but relegated.

I'm so sorry and furious on your behalf that you've been bullied like this at such a vulnerable time. Your husband needs to grow a spine and cut the apron strings. You must be viewing him in a very different light.

I personally would not concede to the offer that is on the table.

Hope both your babies are doing well and that the in laws are taking as much interest in your DD as they do is DS.

Inertia Sun 21-Jul-13 13:35:14

I second exactly what Talkative Jim said. This isn't a compromise- it's you being bullied until you give in.

Your son has the name that you and your husband chose. That is his name. You are willing to give him your FIL's name as a middle name and last name- you carried your son for 9 months, you gave birth to him; as the parents you get to choose the name he will be known by. If the family and village don't want to call your child by the name his parents both agreed to give him then that's their tough luck.

Christening- again, your husband is going back on what you agreed. Don't make any agreements about whether you christen anybody at this point.

You entered into this marriage based on agreements made with your husband. Your husband is now going back on this because it's easier to bully his vulnerable, exhausted, birth-traumatised wife than it is to stand up to his family and say " My priority is my wife and children, this is what we have agreed for our family so please respect us and our parenting decisions". It's easier for your husband to force you into bending to the will of his family while you feel isolated. Frankly, never mind him losing respect for you- I'd have zero respect for someone who manages to be such a wife-bullying shit and a snivelling weakling at the same time.

Inertia Sun 21-Jul-13 13:37:56

OxfordBags put it much more politely than me , but is absolutely right- this is downright misogyny.

Have the rest of the family even noticed that you've given birth to daughters?

I agree with everything TalkativeJim and Inertia have said sad.

comingintomyown Sun 21-Jul-13 13:40:28

I agree with Clam , it all just sounds crazy to me

Hope you are OK OP , this too shall pass

anonacfr Sun 21-Jul-13 13:40:52

All his relatives and everyone in his GP' s village calling him Yiorgos? Basically your compromise is all about saving face for his parents and pretending the name you've given him doesn't actually exist.

If you're going to do that then there is no way I'd agree to a christening. That was another thing you didn't want or believe in and now you have to do it too?

I agree with the others that it is not a compromise. You know that it's going to be a matter of time before you husband calls him Yiorgos all the time, not just when he's talking to his family.

Sounds like bullying to me.

You need to know exactly what you want here because it seems that your husband doesn't want a compromise, not really. He's given in to family pressure and is trying to find ways to go around your name choice.

Good luck OP, it's such an awful position to be in.

By the way why is your baby girl still referred to as 'the girl'? Has your husband gone back on the name choice for her as well?

Goldmandra Sun 21-Jul-13 13:44:27

orangebee you are doing your best to find a way to move forward and meet everyone's wishes.

You need to sit back for a while and think about what you will feel like in a couple of years time or more. At that point it probably won't bother you that your DC were christened. However, the name your son is accustomed to could be an issue.

You know the structure of your family life and how much influence your in-laws will have.

If you are prepared to take a risk on your son being called Yiorgos by everyone and you think you'll get used to the idea if it happens you would probably be doing the right thing by going with the compromise.

If you think this is going to drag the matter into a battle which goes on for years, making you uptight whenever you hear the name Yiorgos and affecting your future relationships you probably need to stick to your guns now ensure that Yiorgos isn't available for anyone to use.

Only you can really guess what your feelings are likely to be in the future and whether the resentment is going to cause problems.

This isn't about who is winning the battle. The decision you need to make is about supporting positive family relationships in the future. A compromise may feel less painful right now but the pain and the conflict may go on in a more insidious manner for a very long time.

Good luck with this. I really hope it will not spoil the memories you have of your DTs' first few weeks.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 13:55:25

I seem to have done a complete turnaround here from my original posts but you will have to stand your ground or it will only get worse.
Think down the line and you need to phone the school to tell them your child is ill - you give the name, they are confused and so you are forced to tell them Yiorgos is ill.
I wouldn't have them Christened either- it isn't something you can take lightly, there will be promises. I would think it is something for them to decide for themselves when older.

TimeofChange Sun 21-Jul-13 14:02:25

Clam: four different people have said leave.

DollyTwat Sun 21-Jul-13 14:06:50

I think I would go and register the names you want now, before you find your husband had already done it

DollyTwat Sun 21-Jul-13 14:07:33

<the ones you both chose before all the bullying started>

DontmindifIdo Sun 21-Jul-13 14:18:46

I would compromise on having Yiorgos as the middle name and saying to the family they can call him both as if they are double barrelled (so if your choice was say Ben, you'd say "Ben", theyd say "Ben-Yiorgos"). If he has a different name with your PIL that could get confusing, or he could upset thm by saying "my name's not Yiorgos, it's [first name]".

The Christening sounds like the sort of nod to your DH's family that, and i'd go with that unless your family are also religious but a different religion/denomination (don't want to look like you are favouring one side).

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 14:22:36

A Christening is not 'a nod' ,it is a huge undertaking with specific promises!

Inertia Sun 21-Jul-13 14:26:31

Don'tmind, that's a a really good suggestion about names as a possible compromise. It means that OrangeBee's son is always known by his actual name, but the rest of the family can include the second part of his name as well as his actual first name.

CheeseFondueRocks Sun 21-Jul-13 14:31:38

God, that poor boy will be so confused by people calling him different names.

squoosh Sun 21-Jul-13 14:34:54

Personally I'd be happier to go along with the christening than the name.

clam Sun 21-Jul-13 14:41:46

4 posts, out of nearly 400. Ben allowing for multiple posts, that's a tiny proportion.

badbride Sun 21-Jul-13 14:54:06

Having given it more thought, I agree with the posters urging you to stick to the original agreement. Tell your husband there will be no more compromises, and that you refuse to discuss it further.

If other family members try to bully you, assert yourself calmly by saying something along the lines of: "I understand that you do not agree with our name choice. But we have made the decision and we are not going to change our minds. So I will not discuss this with you." Repeat as required.

Lavidaenrosa Sun 21-Jul-13 14:54:44

cheese that's not true. I am called different names/nicknames by different people and I did not grow up confused.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 15:02:54

I don't think he will be confused- he will just be Yiorgos , except to his mother. There are more of them, they are in their own country, they are bullying.

orangebee1 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:13:26

I should say that all our friends and associate would call him by my chosen name, we rarely see his family so it would not be so often. That said, i do still object that if they are in my house they call him Yiorgos, but my husband says it's his house too - i can't really argue with that.

I'm finding it very tough now to talk to my husband in a civil way, i am so irritated by the whole thing, I can't believe how desperate i was in the hospital after delivering and having that overwhelmed feeling all mothers have for my husband to cuddle me and say everything would be OK, but instead he went all silent when the name drama unfolded and just left.

He'll only be called Yiorgos by the inlaws. And when he visits the inlaws. (Probably not that often after this!)

By his mum, friends, school, English family and officially he'll be 'mum's choice name.'

I think it's a workable compromise, I wouldn't like it but I'd lump it.

Oops, cross post!

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 15:19:03

When you put that you rarely see his family-do you mean his parents?

I would have thought that would be more reason to stick to what you wanted to call them in the first place tbh, as it's not as if you would be facing daily digs from them about the name.

Wishfulmakeupping Sun 21-Jul-13 15:22:14

OP I'm so sorry you were left in the hospital like that honestly this situation is so sad you must be so disapointed in your dh I hope you can get past this but for now focus on the babies not all this drama. Now your decision is made tell them all you're not willing to discuss it any further

OxfordBags Sun 21-Jul-13 15:23:46

OP, so what he is telling you is that even in your own home, he will allow his family to call your son what THEY want. That's already backtracking. He's already showing you that any illusion of agency you have in this matter is a lie to him, that your wants,needs and rights don't count.

He is putting them above you. At probably the most vulnerable you have ever been as an adult, he is letting you know that you are so low down in his pecking order that you're barely on it at all.

There is a saying: people tell you who they are. Your OH is telling you that you, your health, your rights, you as a mother, are not respected by him, and that his own wider family are more important than you and will always be so. This is no longer about a name, this is about him revealing his true colours. And they are pretty shit.

And it also shows a complete lack of concern and respect for your children - showing your DDs they are inferior and irrelevant now that The Don is here, and that their very identities matter less to him than arselicking his own mummy and daddy. He will allow your son to be confused and to have his own identity disrespected to give himself an easy life? What aprince amongst men. Because if the family don't see him that often, so Ds does get used to his real name, not Yiorgos, then it is going to really upset and confuse him that his parents allow people, even if they are family, to not call him by his own name. That is CRUEL. And your OH will be making you collude in hurting your own child. That's not compromise, that's a sacrifice of a child's rights and dignity.

OxfordBags Sun 21-Jul-13 15:24:30

The Son, not The Don, sorry.

CylonNumber6 Sun 21-Jul-13 15:40:26

Oh OP I'm so sorry to hear what your husband did to you in the hospital.

I really hope you can move past this.

If you don't see them that often then maybe it is a workable compromise.

I think the best thing you can.do now is to try and resolve the issue with your husband and move forward.

Best of luck Xx

JackNoneReacher Sun 21-Jul-13 15:41:52

Oxfordbags harsh but true.

This isn't just about a name but a reflection of something much deeper.

What inertia said - so true.

Your husband is now going back on this because it's easier to bully his vulnerable, exhausted, birth-traumatised wife than it is to stand up to his family

I think this is the crux of it. You will have to demonstrate this is not the case. (sad but true, last think you need at the moment)

Very weak of him. No respect for this behaviour at all. He should be stepping up to his family and showing them that his allegiance is to you and to honouring the agreement between the two of you.

Inertia Sun 21-Jul-13 15:44:57

Orangebee, you've hit the nail on the head. Your son's name is a big deal, but the most shocking aspect of this is the appalling way your husband has treated you. You were shattered and needed your husband to care for you and your children - instead he saw his arse and left you alone and overwhelmed because you wouldn't capitulate to his family's demands. You're doing well to just be irritated, because I don't think I could ever forgive that.

OxfordBags - spot on again.

rabbitlady Sun 21-Jul-13 15:46:48

So you can name your son what you want, but no one will really call him it?

you are being so ignorant - as in lacking understanding.
many many people have 'passport names' and different names by which they are known. some asian families have 'indoor' and 'outdoor' names, many Londoners have their official names but are known by another, it was commonplace in Lancashire two generations ago - the first Anne would be Anne, the second 'lil annie' (no matter how old) another Queenie and so on.
it really is pointless making a fuss about this. name the child properly according to tradition and give him another name to use day to day. not odd, just normal.

ZolaBuddleia Sun 21-Jul-13 15:50:16

If the FIL is aware of what's going on here, and we have to assume he is given that some of the family are mocking him, I'd say he is also coming out of this very badly. He should be putting a stop to this bullying on his behalf and telling OP he would be delighted with a middle name tribute. Otherwise he is as nasty and misogynistic as the rest of this sorry family.

Boomba Sun 21-Jul-13 15:50:59

this is bonkers

JackNoneReacher Sun 21-Jul-13 15:53:34

name the child properly according to tradition

Rabbitlady Just wondered if you read the bit where the OP and her DH agreed before marriage that they wouldn't be naming the baby according to tradition. Or the bit where they chose a name together that they liked.

If so do you actually think this should all be forgotten and the baby named according to the wishes of the FIL?

DollyTwat Sun 21-Jul-13 16:01:19

What other traditions are to come op?

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 16:02:13

"you are being so ignorant - as in lacking understanding."

Thanks for that!hmm

Yes, I know some people have "official" names & some choose to be known by their middle name.

But in this case, some relatives would be choosing to call the boy by his middle name-even though the mother doesn't want that & both parents had already agreed on a name that they both liked & wished the child to be called by.

burberryqueen Sun 21-Jul-13 16:05:43

it is not the bucking of tradition that is the real issue here it is the way OP's husband allowed her to be bullied by his family at her most vulnerable and went back on his word.....in a word, what a malaka....
announcing the names on fb might have been a bit tactless tbh.
hope you are OK OP

CheeseFondueRocks Sun 21-Jul-13 16:08:49

Name the child according to tradition?

How come the DH's tradition is more important the the OP's cultural tradition of picking the name themselves?

Viviennemary Sun 21-Jul-13 16:09:50

If that is the tradition in his culture then my opinion would be you should go along with it. And your DH has every much as right say in the naming of the child as you have. And it's obviously extremely important to him to follow his culture. Did you not realise this before you got married.

GingerBlondecat Sun 21-Jul-13 16:12:52

ViviennemarySun 21-Jul-13 16:09:50

If that is the tradition in his culture then my opinion would be you should go along with it. And your DH has every much as right say in the naming of the child as you have. And it's obviously extremely important to him to follow his culture. Did you not realise this before you got married.

read the damm thread

OP talked about it before marrying this guy and said before hand she would Never use the name.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 21-Jul-13 16:12:52

VivienneMary

The OP has already said it was agreed before they even got married that they would not follow this particular tradition.

GingerBlondecat Sun 21-Jul-13 16:13:42

Hi Fives Alis

squoosh Sun 21-Jul-13 16:14:19

VivienneMary perhaps it would be helpful to you if you read the OP's posts.

Inertia Sun 21-Jul-13 16:14:27

Rabbitlady- that's all fine and dandy when both parents agree to follow those customs.

In this case, the OP and her husband had already agreed and chosen names before the family stuck their oars in. The OP agreed to marry her husband specifically on the condition that they did not adhere to this custom. In this case it appears that you are being ignorant , as you seem to lack understanding of what the OP has already said about the agreement they had.

It really isn't pointless to expect to be able to give your child the name that you and your husband agreed on. It most certainly isn't pointless, or making a fuss, to expect some compassion towards a new mother who is still recovering from the births.

Any custom or tradition that dictates that adherents of the custom get to bully and ride roughshod over the wishes and needs of a vulnerable, exhausted new mother can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

Inertia Sun 21-Jul-13 16:15:58

Cross posted with somebody else who hasn't read the thread hmm

Cuddlydragon Sun 21-Jul-13 16:18:35

Congratulations on the birth of your twins OP. you're in a horrible position and its just so wrong that this time is being ruined by this. I think though that the compromise will just confuse your little boy in the years to come. I wouldn't want to have to explain to him when he's a little older why he has two names. What if he has a preference towards either and has to be stuck with the one he doesn't like at times. I agree with the other posters who are encouraging you to chose one name and have the fight about it now rather than in years to come. Good luck.

BadSpeakingSkills Sun 21-Jul-13 16:23:44

I would flatly refuse to name my child because of tradition, especially since you had already chosen names ! angry

I'd compromise possibly on a middle name but no way for a first name. These are YOUR children so it's down you and your DH to decide the names.

Elenio Sun 21-Jul-13 16:28:12

I don't think he will grow up confused. I have always had a Greek name and an English name. Some people call me by my English name, others by my Greek name. It has always been that way and its not confusing at all.

The only thing that changed was as I grew older, I realised that I prefer my Greek name and started using it whenever I met new people. My mother never liked my grandmothers name so used an English version of it.

The difference being that my mother was aware of the tradition before she married and had children with my father. I think your husband has been terribly unfair and going back on his word is not right.

It probably is difficult for the grandfather as he is an elderly gentleman from a small village who may not understand why someone would want to break a strong tradition that has been around for centuries. However, it was up to your husband to explain this to him and the reason why. Plenty of Greeks do not follow this tradition any longer but it is still very prevalent in smaller village communities.

Are the children to be baptised? They are traditionally known as 'baby' until they are baptised. Hopefully they are not just doing that out of spite!

5madthings Sun 21-Jul-13 16:28:12

God what a nightmare, there is no way I could go along with this tradition and you and your dh had an agreement that you wouldn't be following this tradition, he should have sorted this with his family before now!

And for those telling the op to compromise, she is living in Greece, so away from her family and presumably she may have left friends or even a job to live there, which is already a massive compromise on her part, one that she is presumably happy with. The least her dh can do is to keep the promise he made re their child's name.

Op the christenings had this been discussed before? How old is your elder dd? Were there no issues over names and christening when she was born? Or is this all about your newborn son?

Fwiw my mil would like my dp and I to be married and the children to be christened, its not happening and I think its been accepted, there were grumbles but never anything more than that.

Oh I forget she did ignore my children's surname, its double barreked and she dropped my surname just giving them dp's, the children corrected her themselves as soon as they were old enough!

JenaiMorris Sun 21-Jul-13 16:30:51

Ffs, do people actually know what misogyny means? confused

The name tradition is a nice one. People the world over (including several I know in person and others on this thread) get along just fine with two names. Cripes, many actually like that connection with their forbears - as the OP's son probably will.

Re christenings - I wouldn't be thrilled, being an atheist. However as an atheist to me the religious aspect holds no power, so better it's got over and done with when the babies haven't a clue what's going on. People like ceremonies and rites of passage - that's why even heathens like me get married and have funerals. I hope I'd be able to see it that way in the OP's shoes (but appreciate that I'm not).

squoosh Sun 21-Jul-13 16:33:53

'The name tradition is a nice one.'

Oh yes isn't it 'nice' that the OP is being bullied into agreeing to giving her child a name she dislikes. Isn't is 'nice' that her husband has gone back on his word. Isn't it 'nice' that he's told her he'll lose respect for her unless she bends to his family's wishes.

How 'nice'.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 16:35:20

I think it has got the point where people are joining and haven't bothered to read the whole thing. It is the updates that have made me change my mind.

anonacfr Sun 21-Jul-13 16:53:51

Sorry to repeat myself but OP why is your daughter still referred to as 'the girl'?

Has your husband refused to name her the agreed name out of spite?

Jux Sun 21-Jul-13 16:59:15

This is getting worse and worse with every post, orangebee. The situation is horrible for you.

He knew you wouldn't follow that tradition before you were even married.
He agreed names which you both like before the boy was born.

How can he go back on it like that? And let you be bullied by his family when you've only just given birth?

It is all such a betrayal. I would find it really hard to trust anything he said again.

exoticfruits Sun 21-Jul-13 17:10:23

I thought as you did rabbitlady- passport name and one for everyday was fine. But that is not how the 'compromise' has worked out!

Booboostoo Sun 21-Jul-13 17:20:04

OP this is a very important practical point (which was true in 2011 when I registered our DD so I assume has not changed):

The registration of birth in Greece does NOT include a name. The baby is registered as Baby Surname (the surname will be the one you chose your future children to have at your marriage, so either yours or your DH's surname).

Then you can register the actual name in one of two ways:
- either at the Baptism. This is a completely legal document and if the name Yiorgos is first that will be his first name in all legal documents.
- or by a name giving document that is used relatively rarely (as most Greeks are Christian Orthodox and go in for baptisms).

We are atheists and needed a passport so we used the name giving document service right after the birth.

Beware of another possible problem there: for this document you will need to spell the name in normal Greek characters. When you eventually apply for passports for your children the conversion to Latin characters will be done automatically and you won't get to chose the Latin spellings. This can be a disaster for some name, e.g. our daughter's name would have been spelt "Lili Sarlot" and not "Lily Charlotte" as we wanted (in a time honoured Greek tradition we got over this hurdle by knowing someone who re-did all the documents but it was very difficult).

Best of luck with the horror that is Greece!

CPtart Sun 21-Jul-13 17:51:13

We were the first parents in several generations to not continue a family name for our DS.
Point of principle. Stick by your guns.

CinnamonAddict Sun 21-Jul-13 17:52:54

I think that your dh's behaviour is really out of order. Please show him this thread. It is HIS fault you are in this situation.
As for him telling you it is his house too - <speechless> he doesn't get it.

Make sure your name is spelt the English way on his documents (what Boo said) otherwise there is always going to be confusion when he travels abroad or lives abroad. Official places like banks etc take spellings from passports.