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To want to smash illegally parked cars after I just almost got knocked off bike?

(145 Posts)
NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 16:36:27

I am so MAD it's not even describable. I live in an area of loads of victorian terraces...it's very naice and everything but these people park their bastard cars all up the roads and half on the paths making it treacherous for cyclists and pedestrians.

I just turned left into the next street on my bike (on the road) having checked there was no oncoming traffic. As I began cycling off, a car was coming in the opposite direction at quite a speed....probably not above the legal limit though...he did however get so close to me that he knocked the brake almost off the bike and caused me to clatter and clunk along the side of his car...this was due to A his speed and B the fact that the whole side of the road is taken up by fucking CARS where it should be FREE for ME to ride!

angry

I was very apologetic and the driver was white....he kept saying "are you alright?" and I realise now that it was probably more his fault than mine...I was worried about his car!

I never got hurt...but that's because I had the strength to lever me and the bike away from the car and keep my feet clear...causing me to be sort of sandwiched between the moving car and the parked one.

What can i DO??? I have complained about the cars parking there before and they told me they'd ticket them all...then nothing happens!

babyhmummy01 Thu 18-Jul-13 16:38:07

Call police and report it as an accident

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 16:38:38

I literally feel like taking a hammer to the lazy bastard's cars. DH says "but where will they park?"

I DON'T CARE WHERE THEY PARK!!!! I care that a kid wouldn't have had the speed or the strength or the calmness to have been ok in the situation I was just in and I care that people pushing buggies and wheelchairs have to go on the ROAD because these people are using the PATH for their vehicles!!!

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 16:38:57

baby I don't have the number plate!

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Thu 18-Jul-13 16:41:51

I'd log it with the police too. Maybe, if they get enough reports, they will do something about the state of the parking.

babyhmummy01 Thu 18-Jul-13 16:44:20

I would still report it and explain that it wasn't the drivers fault but due to the cars that are parked, although if there are no yellow lines then the cars can park on the side of the road. It's down to other road users to judge if they can traverse the road without damaging the cars parked or injuring other road users.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 16:46:53

Shall I complain to the council?

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Thu 18-Jul-13 16:46:53

Is it legal for them to park there? I.e is it an ordinary road but narrow so people park half over the pavement, or are there restrictions such as lines or permits?

Thurlow Thu 18-Jul-13 16:48:38

I'd call the police as well. But I hate this, I live in a similar area that's just not designed for cars parked on both sides of the road. The amount of places I struggle to get around with a pushchair because people have parked over the crossing (well, the dipped bit) or on corners, and that's with a single buggy, god knows what people with a double buggy or a wheelchair do.

Somedays I want to walk around my town with a notepad and leave little smiley notes on people's cars - "thank you so much for blocking the crossing" or "I really appreciated having to push the buggy through a pile of mud in someone's front garden because you've parked across the entire pavement." Passive aggressive and twattish no doubt, but I'd love to do it. Though obviously none of that is anywhere near as bad as nearly having an accident.

I guess the difficulty is though that there are just too many cars and nowhere to park them. A victorian road doesn't have enough room for people to park outside their house.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 16:48:48

i don't know Antlers....there are some lines but Ive never looked properly...

SoupDragon Thu 18-Jul-13 16:49:17

The fault lies with the other driver, not the parked cars.

diddl Germany Thu 18-Jul-13 16:54:07

Were there cars both sides?

If so, it was your right of way wasn't it-because you were already passing the parked cars-& because you are a bike?

I'm in Germany & rarely cycle on the roads.

But when I do & there's nothing my side, it really pisses me off the amount of drivers who in passing parked cars leave me very little room.

It's hard to hold your part of the road when there's a car coming at you!

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman Thu 18-Jul-13 16:59:52

The parked cars are an issue if, as the OP says, they are forcing pedestrians into the road. It is only a matter of time until someone is seriously hurt.

HeySoulSister Thu 18-Jul-13 17:01:37

the car was already coming up the street when you turned left?

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Thu 18-Jul-13 17:01:39

Ok, so it sounds like the street is too narrow for two lines of parked cars and enough room in the road for two cars to pass. Common in many old streets - you see either people drive down and pass in places, or long term they start parking half over the curb and half over the pavement. Neither solution is odeal, arguably the second is better for road users. Either way, assuming this is an area they can legally park in, even if they then park illegally on the curb, then the issue isn't parked cars - they and stationary obstacle will always be there. It is up to the individual to respond to conditions. Going near the speed limit sounds stupid in such conditions. I find that more annoying, people will the idea you keep at thirty as the minimum speed, not the limit.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Thu 18-Jul-13 17:02:43

What soupdragon said - and more concisely!

LRDYaDumayuIThink Thu 18-Jul-13 17:40:58

I think if you didn't see what road markings there were, you need to check before you decide the cars shouldn't be parked there. And I agree, it sounds as if it was the driver's fault (and very scary for you).

I wonder if maybe as well as reporting it, if there aren't double yellows and there is parking allowed, you could also get in touch with the council and tell them what a hazard it is? And if there are double yellows and the cars are parked illegally, when you report it, tell them that. If enough people make a fuss they are more likely to get a parking warden to toughen up/visit more regularly.

theodorakisses Thu 18-Jul-13 17:44:43

If so much as threatened to take a hammer to my car I would report you and persue it, what a ridiculous thing to say. Then you wonder why people call cyclists car hating aggressive bullies?

HeySoulSister Thu 18-Jul-13 17:46:15

out of interest op,where do you expect everyone to park?

the uk is full of these types of streets

Sparklingbrook Thu 18-Jul-13 17:48:38

That sounds really frightening Neo. Glad you are ok. Definitely report to the Police.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 17:52:19

Soul yes...the street is VERY long...so there should have been plenty of time...I was well on the road and on my way...the oncoming car should have stopped really. He risked it.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 17:53:24

Soul I really don't care where they park...up their own petrol guzzling arses if they like! smile

There are plenty of car parks and garages for hire close by. I suppose they're too lazy to walk though.

NUFC69 Thu 18-Jul-13 19:00:13

We have a problem with cars parked on the pavement here, too. I was talking about it to my DSis and she said that the police in their village have adopted a pragmatic approach - cars can park on the pavement, but there must be room for a double buggy to get through the space which means, of course, that there is also room for a wheelchair. This is actually rigidly enforced and seemed like a really good compromise to me. Not that it helps you, OP, in the situation you were in. Tbh it does sound as if the driver was at fault. Hope you're feeling ok?

VivaLeBeaver Thu 18-Jul-13 19:12:28

Unless there's yellow lines then they can park on the road. They shouldn't be half on the pavement but if they get ticketed for that they'll just park fully on the road making it even narrower for cars and cycles. So maybe be careful what you wish for!

Sounds like it was the other cars fault, that he didn't appreciate how much room he needed. His fault, not the parked cars.

WMittens Thu 18-Jul-13 20:20:01

I'm sorry to hear you had such a close shave, the driver sounds reckless.

where it should be FREE for ME to ride!

This bit is unreasonable - you have no more right to use that road than
anyone else.

Also, re parked cars: yes they're an annoyance but they are a static hazard - everyone: pedestrians, cyclists and motorists, needs to adjust their behaviour when they approach a hazard.

Assume everyone else on the road is an idiotic moron and you won't be disappointed.

EvieanneVolvic Thu 18-Jul-13 20:43:33

Look I can see you are shaken, and I get that, and I am glad you were not actually hurt, but what you are in effect saying is that cars should not be on the pavement (true) and that they should not be on the road either.

<whispers and links arms with Theodora> can't help thinking you are the sort of cyclist who gives them all a bad name.

It may not be desirable but it is a fact that we are very much a four wheel society and as such it seems to me that cyclists contribute greatly to traffic hazards. I also don't like the fact that they always seem to claim the moral highground no matter how extreme and outrageous they are being and no matter how optional they consider red lights to be, but that's another thread

LittleBearPad Thu 18-Jul-13 20:48:12

In my street cars are required to half park on the pavements. The road markings and signage shows this.

YABU wanting to smash the parked cars. It was a moving one which caused the problem.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 20:54:07

I don't want to get into some debate about "giving cyclists a bad name" when the motorists are the ones taking up the room on the road. That would be silly wouldn't it? I was simply riding my bike in a sensible fashion where it belongs...on the road.

Bear I know the car was at fault but how is it ok to take up more than half of the space on a road with static cars and then still have it open for two directions?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 20:55:04

There are no markings to show parking spaces here Bear...I must check the lines to see if the cars are legally parked. I don't think they are at all tbh as when I last rang about this (over a year ago) the police said they weren't meant to park there.

EvieanneVolvic Thu 18-Jul-13 21:03:41

No now Neo I have already given you some slack because you've had a nasty experience and I am not belittling that all, but you know fine well that I was not questioning your riding ability and the 'cyclists a bad name' was a little in jest but I can see that may not have come across, or that you may not be in a place to have spotted it even if it did

wine brew

And what (nearly) everybody else has said...why so vitriolic about the parked cars and their owners? They surely didn't appear in a cloud of glitter and a puff of smoke after you'd turned left?

And I get that the road was not a one way street but (again as others have said) this happens all over the place (especially on country lanes ime) and you take it in turns to pass. It was the moving car who made that difficult from what you say, and it seems the driver accepted that too

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 21:12:56

If the cars were not taking up all that space Evianne then there would have been more than enough room for the car to pass me. They shouldn't be there. It's selfish, it's thoughtless and from what I remember from my call to the police last year, it's also illegal.

EvieanneVolvic Thu 18-Jul-13 21:17:06

Well if it's illegal then of course you have a point but that seems to be in doubt.

And if it's not illegal then as someone else has had, where do you expect them to park. Oh sorry you've already answered that one...

I really don't care where they park...up their own petrol guzzling arses if they like!

Now what was I saying about always taking the moral high ground.

I'm orf. I've been goaded too far. Night!

kinkyfuckery Thu 18-Jul-13 21:21:13

You're complaining about cars parked legally on the road? Get a fucking grip.

xylem8 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:23:41

* due to A his speed and B the fact that the whole side of the road is taken up by fucking CARS where it should be FREE for ME to ride!*

I may not be understanding this right, but surely if the parked cars were on your side of the road then it was the oncoming drivers right of way, not yours?

jacks365 France Thu 18-Jul-13 21:23:50

Neo it may be that the police meant they shouldn't be parked on the pavement not that they shouldn't be there at all. Lets face it councils see cars as easy money if there are yellow lines there you can bet the traffic wardens would be out in force.

I used to live on a road that you could park on both sides of but if people did so you couldn't get a car through and thankfully it rarely happened.

WMittens Thu 18-Jul-13 21:24:19

but how is it ok to take up more than half of the space on a road with static cars and then still have it open for two directions?

Well, how can a winding single track road (meaning the width of one car) be National Speed Limit and open to two-way traffic? By driving/cycling/pedestrianating to the conditions.

To be honest, it doesn't really matter if it's illegal or not - if a car/van/lorry/bus is parked and it creates a risk to the safety of you or someone else, take more care! (This also applies to the car driver who didn't in your situation.)

Accept that other people are going to do some stupid shit and protect yourself against it.

diddl Germany Thu 18-Jul-13 21:25:52

But even if it was the drivers right of way-he should have waited for OP to either pull in or finish "overtaking" as she had already started?

diddl Germany Thu 18-Jul-13 21:26:30

Forgot to add-surely it's only your "right of way" when it's also clear for it to be so?

WMittens Thu 18-Jul-13 21:41:01

But even if it was the drivers right of way-he should have waited for OP to either pull in or finish "overtaking" as she had already started?

That's contradictory - if it was his right of way, he had the right to proceed; if the OP had begun the manoeuvre and the only option was to complete it, the driver did not have right of way.

surely it's only your "right of way" when it's also clear for it to be so?

What happens if two cars both arrive at a bottle-necked road with cars parked on either side, at the same time - who has right of way? They can both see it's not clear to proceed and neither has priority.

In general, I would say a driver should defer to a more vulnerable road user, as should have been in this situation.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 21:43:24

I don't know about that diddl I was just cycling along a road. Correctly as it happens. And Kinky YOU get a grip. I never said they were legally parked...I don't think they are...I wont say it for SURE on here because I haven' checked but rest assured that I will be checking and if it's not legal I will be making such a noise about it that those cars will need to move elsewhere.

megsmouse Thu 18-Jul-13 21:58:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CloudsAndTrees Thu 18-Jul-13 22:08:03

I may not be understanding this right, but surely if the parked cars were on your side of the road then it was the oncoming drivers right of way, not yours?

This is exactly what I'm thinking.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 22:28:56

The parked cars were on both sides of the road.

Panonabike Thu 18-Jul-13 22:58:00

I'd think YABU to wish to smash illegally parked cars, if they are so. But YABVR to feel aggrieved at the carelessness and 'rights' that drivers often express when they leave their cars in places they shouldn't and precipitate accidents. I'm pretty sure the driver saw you but thought 'I'll go down here as I'm driving a car she is only on a bike so I have more right and power ' or some such?

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Thu 18-Jul-13 23:17:51

You say you won't say for sure, yet it's in your thread title.

You'd encounter the same situation on an average street with double parking, irrespective of whether the cars were parked over the pavement or not. It's the responsibility of the road user to respond to conditions accordingly.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:20:15

I DID want to smash them. I'm not ashamed of anger directed towards people who could b responsible for killing a child due to careless and selfish behaviour. It's not like I'm talking about smashing the man who almost hit me...he was old and shocked. I felt sorry for him. He was probably going too fast or whatever but the point is that those cars were taking up MOST of the road. How can that be ok?

how can people even THINK to say "but where will they park?" who CARES?

They shouldn't be taking up all the space on a road! I don't mean one or two...there's yards and yards of them. Just a solid line of cars up and down.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:21:06

Antlers yes it is...but I'd just got in and was still shaking...in my mind they shiouldn't be there...I am sure I remember this fact from last year...but I will check tomorrow.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:21:23

How could I adjust more??? By flying?

Panonabike Thu 18-Jul-13 23:26:13

yes road users need to respond according to conditions. That means not almost knocking someone off their bike. Seems plain.

ceeveebee Thu 18-Jul-13 23:29:15

What on earth are you going on about? Unless there are double yellow lines (and on a quiet narrow back street is be surprised) then of course people can park their cars there. Every street I have lived on since moving to London 15 years ago is exactly like this.

As a road user you have to watch for hazards. You only go when its safe and when there is nothing coming in the opposite direction. If there are two vehicles ie you and the oncoming car, one of you should have pulled over to let the other pass. Nothing to do with the parked cars. It's no different then if you were driving a car on a road with cars parked on both sides, which is pretty normal in most urban areas.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:36:09

Ceevee as I said upthread I think there ARE lines there! I need to check I was too shocked at the time.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:36:33

So read the bloody thread before you come out with your "what on earth" bollocks.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:37:20

AND where did I say it was a quiet backstreet?? If there were no parked cars on either side then it would be quite wide actually.

Panonabike Thu 18-Jul-13 23:39:57

Parking in any way that impedes traffic progress is illegal, esp if it means emergency services can't get down the road. Just because it's fairly common doesn't excuse it at all.

HeySoulSister Thu 18-Jul-13 23:41:04

Well cars need to park somewhere!!! In the absence of a drive where else? Other people manage.... And why should the car be the one to stop? You had the choice to move too

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:41:04

Well then in that case Pan, the whole bloody street is in violation! I can't WAIT to go and check and then report the arseholes.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:41:56

Soul they can park up their own selfish arses. I don't give a shiney shite where they park but if they're parking in places where they're impeding traffic then they'll just have to MOVE!

Panonabike Thu 18-Jul-13 23:45:43

Hey I live on a narrow road and drive a car. I park it somewhere up the road usually where there is a space to park it. 50yds sometimes. That's because I am not an entitled tosser of a driver who things I can park where it's convenient for me and sod everyone else.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:46:32

AND I DID NOT have the choice to frigging move! I was sandwiched between the moving car and the parked car...oh yes...and the other frigging 45 parked cars too!

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:47:43

Thank you Panonabike. I cannot understand this attitude people have! It's bizarre! A child coming home from school could have been knocked off an killed and that's all I could think of when it happened. Thank God that it was me and not a kid....

ceeveebee Thu 18-Jul-13 23:48:57

I did read the thread. You said you thought there were lines but not sure. I cannot believe that if there are double yellow lines that cars would be parked all the way down both sides of a long street - the odd car yes, but not everyone. They'd get ticketed in no time. So I suspect you'll be updating everyone tomorrow to say that actually there aren't double yellow lines.
The car should not have driven at such a speed if there was essentially only one lane, but its not the fault of the parked cars. Unless there are double yellow lines in which case I'll eat my hat words

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Thu 18-Jul-13 23:49:35

So because "you cannot believe" you're just going to blunder on some fantasy of what the facts are? Ok...enjoy that. I'll just ignore you.

ceeveebee Thu 18-Jul-13 23:50:13

Nighty night

Panonabike Thu 18-Jul-13 23:52:15

cee, you are under an illusion that IF there aren't yellow lines you can park. Well no. It has to be not impeding traffic or causing an obstruction. AND you aren't supposed to park less than 15 feet from a corner/junction. But that isn't enforced either.

TheFarSide Fri 19-Jul-13 00:04:26

If the cars were so close that there was no room for a car and a bike to pass each other, it's possible that there would be no room for large vehicles like fire engines and refuse trucks. This has been the case in my street until recently, when the council finally painted double yellow lines down one side of the road - but only in those parts where it was particularly narrow. Presumably there is some kind of legal definition of how much space is needed.

That said, this incident was absolutely the driver's fault for trying to squeeze past you and I am surprised you are so forgiving of him.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 00:07:22

yes FarSide - if the parking causes this difficulty then they are parking illegally. Which appears to be an educative point for some drivers.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Fri 19-Jul-13 00:09:25

Far I know...I am surprised too. I think it's because I saw his white face and feel he was punished enough through the shock of it all. I felt for him you know....he wasn't a young man, but was obviously about 70...his mate was by him in the passenger seat and he looked shocked too. It was like your Granddad having a close shave...you'd feel for him,

TheFarSide Fri 19-Jul-13 00:19:16

Fair enough Neo.

Panonabike - it's not necessarily illegal if the only difficulty is that a car and a bike can't pass each other. If a single vehicle couldn't pass between the parked cars, that would be a different matter - which doesn't seem to apply here.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 19-Jul-13 00:26:13

I don't get it. Is this road very short or something?

I'm not sure I understand how when turning into a narrow road you wouldn't notice a car coming towards you before you committed yourself to turning surely you check for that?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Fri 19-Jul-13 00:45:32

Far don't you consider a bike to be a vehicle then? hmm

Sock Yes I did check it....I turned into the road when I saw it was clear...the car was going fast...approaching me...it was a good distance away when I turned.... IN retrospect partly due to the parked cars...but even if it HAD been in sight I would have been fine had there been more room.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 19-Jul-13 01:25:58

But there wasn't more room.

You saw the car before you turned it was only wide enough for one car not a car and a bike that means the road was not clear even if the car was a good distance away and you shouldn't have turned.

Not saying that the parked cars are ok because obviously they aren't if they are parked illegally just that you shouldn't have made the move.

It may be worth putting a complaint in writing to your local parking enforcement office and state approx how many cars your talking about and if its most days, just thinking out loud (well via keyboard) but if its 10 cars and its most days,if the average parking ticket is about £60 that's £600 per day at least, more if its different cars of lost revenue if they are ignoring the street.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Fri 19-Jul-13 01:32:18

dont tell me what i saw sock.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 19-Jul-13 02:47:41

You told me what you saw.

It was either not there when you turned or it was a good distance away but there when you turned.it can't be both

You said good distance away. Something that is a good distance away is still there. On a road where it has nowhere else to go its flaming obvious it will still be there when you try to pass it.

If you don't fit then you don't fit.

ItsNotATest Fri 19-Jul-13 03:46:11

Owning a car does not necessarily make you a petrol guzzling arse or too lazy to walk.

Being 70 does not excuse you for not taking care when driving.

Parked cars do not excuse cyclists for failing to read the road hazards.

Like a lot of people, I drive, I cycle, I walk. I don't like the sweeping generalisations.

I had a near miss when cycling recently, caused entirely by a pedestrian walking into the road and making me swerve almost into the path of a car behind me. Fortunately said car driver screeched to a halt in time. I should probably have riden into him rather risk my own life to avoid him, but we all make mistakes in the heat of the moment. We all survived, I told the pedestrain he was an idiot. I didn't have a rant about imagined characteristics of the 3 people involved based entirely on their mode of transportation at the time.

MidniteScribbler Fri 19-Jul-13 06:11:30

Based on the OPs method of apportioning blame ItsNotATest, you really should be angry at the shop at the side of the road for having the temerity conduct business too close to where you want to cycle lol.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 06:41:27

Many posters are choosing to ignore that the OP said she checked on turning that there was no oncoming traffic, at the time of turning.

fwiw a bike isn't a 'vehicle' under RTA legislation but cyclists are road users, and Socks analysis appears to discount the rights (or even existence) of bikes to be counted as road users.

and similar to the OP, I don;t care less where drivers park cars, as long as it is legal and not causing others problems.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 06:44:06

It's not like I'm talking about smashing the man who almost hit me...he was old and shocked. I felt sorry for him. He was probably going too fast or whatever but the point is that those cars were taking up MOST of the road

No, the point is that it was the other drivers fault and no one else's

He failed to see you.

Be angry at the right person for causing this accident. The other driver failed to take account of the driving conditions in that road at that time.

Why are you feeling sorry for someone who was driving dangerously? He was far more likely to be responsible for killing a child than a stationary parked car.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 06:48:55

The fact that he was 70 and shocked is irrelevant. If my dad had a similar incident when driving I would question whether he was still safe to be on the road, not feel sorry for him.

WMittens Fri 19-Jul-13 06:51:28

ItsNotATest

Completely agree.

saintmerryweather Fri 19-Jul-13 06:57:13

there isnt really a need for your attitude problem, sock makes a very good point. you said the car was there when you turned into the road proceeding too.quickly down it but you still decided to try and get down it rather than wait and now youre pissed off with people parking outside their house because both you and the car driver handled the situation badly

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 06:57:22

You said good distance away. Something that is a good distance away is still there. On a road where it has nowhere else to go its flaming obvious it will still be there when you try to pass it.

This. Either it was there or it wasn't. The one certain thing is that the road was lined with parked cars which a) were obvious b) were immobile and c) are always there.

LittleBearPad Fri 19-Jul-13 07:00:20

Soup is making excellent points. Just because the old man was shocked doesn't mean he and you both caused the problem. Him by driving too fast and you by turning into a road where there wasn't space to pass.

Cyclebump Fri 19-Jul-13 07:32:33

You've had a scary experience so YANBU to feel shaken up and angry in the immediate aftermath.

If they're parked illegally I feel your rage, roads near me are constantly gridlocked because bad parking has left so little room for anyone to get through, whether on two wheels or four.

I do think you should be more angry with the car that took off your brake though, I can't stand drivers who 'chance it' width wise when I'm on my bike. It's fucking dangerous, a cyclist squished against a car can be seriously injured or killed.

It's rare that anyone pulls over so I can pass, even if there's a space on their side and not on mine. Most people just think cars have more right to be on the road than cyclists, it's very irritating, but it's a fact.

I can't help thinking that if this had been a car driver who'd had a wing mirror taken off by the oncoming car people would be a bit more sympathetic to your feelings of rage in the short term, however unfounded they thought they were.

Ironic since you were at far more risk of injury as a cyclist...

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 08:00:43

I say again I sympathise that you are clearly in a state of shock. Anyone would be. And your extrapolation to 'what if it had been a child' does you credit, and supports my view that a cycling proficiency test should be compulsory in the same way that a driving licence is.

However your very clear 'two wheels good; four wheels bad' and 'I was was absolutely right to do whatever it was I did, whenever and wherever it was I did it' stance is losing you a lot of support, whatever the rights and wrongs of this particular situation.

Hope you're feeling better this morning (sorry that sounds PA but I really don't know how to phrase it otherwise!)

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 08:14:18

I can't help thinking that if this had been a car driver who'd had a wing mirror taken off by the oncoming car people would be a bit more sympathetic to your feelings of rage in the short term, however unfounded they thought they were

If the hypothetical car driver had been directing their rage at the parked cars then no, I imagine the reaction would be the same.

I can't stand drivers who 'chance it' width wise when I'm on my bike.

It is unclear who "chanced it" here as the oncoming car was apparently both there when the OP checked and not there, with neither having right of way. If the road was not wide enough at that point for both car and bike then one should have stopped - who this should have been is not apparent.

The only thing that seems clear is that the driver appears to have misjudged the safe speed for the road.

Technotropic Fri 19-Jul-13 08:17:50

OP I'm sorry to hear that you had an accident. Sadly all too frequent nowadays.

A lot of the time I see this sort of thing happending (either in my car on on my bike) and IME cars tend to think they can plough on through and the bike is secondary.

I even had a near head on on my bike once when I rode through traffic calming and the arrow clearly showed I had right of way. But because I was a cyclist the daft cow in her car thought I wasn't traffic.

If you made the overtake before the car then I believe you have a right to complete your manoeuver. If it was 50/50 then it's more difficult obviously.

That said, if I'm in my car and this happens then I just yield as it's about considering the road user that is the most vulnerable. The driver was being a total dick IMHO for not even slowing to a crawl.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 08:20:20

The person who "chanced it" is the person who was last onto the stretch of road in question.

Had I been the car driver, I would have stopped and let the cyclist manoeuvre past me, be that by dismounting and pushing on the pavement or slowly edging past. Had I been the cyclist I would probably have dismounted and squeezed over to the edge as I do when I am a pedestrian on a pavementless road. Basically, I never trust what the other road user is going to do and take control of my own safety. However, this is impossible to judge for the specific scenario experienced by the OP as I have no idea of the road set up.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Fri 19-Jul-13 08:22:11

I can only explain it like this.

I came up to the corner.
I looked for oncoming traffic.
There was a car coming down the long road but it seemed to be along way away
I KNOW I had time...so I turned and rode
The car seemed to be on top of me almost immediately
DOes that mean he sped up?
It's possible
I am a very experienced cyclist....I am used to judging speed
I don't think I chanced it...I think he was going too fast.

I should feel anger at him...but it's hard. The cars on the road were parker right up to the corner, partially obscuring the view of any cyclist coming round....which is why I stopped and as always was careful to check.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Fri 19-Jul-13 08:23:56

I will be going up there soon to check the lines on the road there...I will update and let you know what I find out. If it's legal well...fair enough to the parkers...they're not breaking the law. If it's not legal, I'll be kicking up a stink and tbh I can't imagine HOW it's legal as it's extraordinarily dangerous there due to the cars. It's also right opposite a large park full of kids and parents...awful really.

ComposHat Belgium Fri 19-Jul-13 08:37:25

So ignoring the parked car red herring... cyclist misjudges car's speed, motorist going too fast and both misjudge the space they have to pass and both attempt to dive through.

If we are going to attribute blame then the motorist is more responsible, but both were careless. Certainly not worth foaming at the mouth righteous indignation.
I write this as someone who commutes by bike.

diddl Germany Fri 19-Jul-13 08:39:13

It sounds as if you were wrong then, OP as the car was already on it's way & you were "chancing it".

You obviously didn't have time.

Technotropic Fri 19-Jul-13 08:41:33

Agree totally with ComposHat

ceeveebee Fri 19-Jul-13 08:49:21

Morning
That is exactly what I said upthread and got a bollocking from OP

As a road user you have to watch for hazards. You only go when its safe and when there is nothing coming in the opposite direction. If there are two vehicles ie you and the oncoming car, one of you should have pulled over to let the other pass. Nothing to do with the parked cars. It's no different then if you were driving a car on a road with cars parked on both sides, which is pretty normal in most urban areas.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 09:09:47

I KNOW I had time...so I turned and rode

In reality, you thought you had time and chanced it on that assumption. Which is not to say it was your fault as this is not a clear cut scenario.

The only ones who were not at fault for the accident are the parked cars though as they were neither moving nor had drivers in. They were visible, stationary road hazards which should have been considered fully by both parties. Whether they were legally parked is actually not relevant - it's still not their fault. Their only fault is a parking violation.

Obviously if checking the yellow lines, you need to check the times they are in force too.

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Fri 19-Jul-13 09:25:20

No I did have time. There was no room for him and me and he decided to chance it.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 19-Jul-13 09:29:05

fwiw a bike isn't a 'vehicle' under RTA legislation but cyclists are road users, and Socks analysis appears to discount the rights (or even existence) of bikes to be counted as road users

No it does not, nobody should attempt to use a road that due to parked cars and moving things already there is not wide enough for them to fit down until the already moving thing has passed.

If it had have been two cars it would be even more obvious to everybody that the last car onto the narrow road should not have turned into the road before the car taking up the entire gap had moved.

I'm neither pro bike or car (over each other)i think both are good modes of transport,I do drive but only because I cannot ride a bike due to balence issues but I think they look wonderful and I would love to ride one even just once.

Of course the rights and wrongs of it don't make much difference because the end result was both road users ended up shaken and it was obviously upsetting.

But if it was two cars and an insurance claim happened it would be assessed as being the fault of the one who entered the road last when there was not space to do so.

That aside its a good idea to check the legal parking status of the road if its not legal then highlight it to the person in charge of enforcement if it is then it may be worth asking someone (not sure who) to reasses it as it does sound like it shouldn't be.

theodorakisses Fri 19-Jul-13 09:32:12

This thread is almost as boring as a conversation with a cyclist.

TheProsAndConsOfHitchhiking Fri 19-Jul-13 09:52:53

After reading the whole thread op it does sound like you were in the wrong. You seen the car coming but decided to take your chances anyway, I feel quite sorry for the 70 year old driver in all this, When he set off along the road it was clear, then all of a sudden a cyclist pulls out and sets off towards him when there was no room to do so.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 10:18:07

Clearly you didn't have time or you would have made it past the obstruction. confused

If the car wasn't in the road when you turned then he is the one who chanced it.
If the car was in the road when you turned then you are the one who chanced it.

The driver made an incorrect assumption that you both would fit as he passed you. As did you really. I assume the driver did not see you properly/in time.

MidniteScribbler Fri 19-Jul-13 10:27:17

If he was alredy on the road, then you were in the wrong. You took achane and made a mistake.

Are you always this resistant to accepting your mistakes? Or is everyone else in the world to blame for your errors of judgement?

babyhmummy01 Fri 19-Jul-13 10:49:02

I have read the full thread and I fully agree with soup and others. Your op states clearly that the car was already coming towards you and as such you were in the wrong and the cause of the accident and not the parked cars. And FWIW I would be saying the same if you had been in a car.

Irrespective of what speed the car was doing he was already on the road and you had only just turned into it. Therefore it was the cars right of way not yours and you should have waited for him to pass.

I suspect your attitude and anger about this is because you know you were at fault but are reluctant to admit it.

ballinacup Fri 19-Jul-13 11:21:18

I'm not so sure the cars will turn out to be parked illegally either.

If you reported it, and the police said they'd ticket but nothing was done, clearly the officer went out, had a look, and decided nothing was amiss. In my experience the police, rightly, don't hold back on giving tickets where appropriate.

trixymalixy Fri 19-Jul-13 11:26:55

I have to agree with babyhmummy and others. Whether you were in a car or on a bike you were wrong to turn down a road that already had a car on it where there was not enough room for both of you to pass.

The cars illegally parked or not are a red herring, they were there and were an obstacle you should have allowed for better.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 17:28:39

"I just turned left into the next street on my bike (on the road) having checked there was no oncoming traffic.."

is there a collective reading-and-comprehension failure? The car appeared in view after she was on the now-infamous road. It wasn't about not checking stuff. And the legality of the cars' parking is relevant. There are laws to account for this sort of stuff, which looks like are being ignored. Police are v v selective about what they prosecute and what they don't. Eg, that green box for cyclists at traffic lights, called the Advanced Stop Line, or 'bike box'. To pull up in there at a red light warrants a £60 fine and 3 pts. It happens at just about every set of lights I pass through to work (about 10 of them, return journey, 20). Have a rough guess about how many prosecutions there have been?

So no, not giving out tickets re illegal parking is no indicator of the status of the cars.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 17:43:56

The legality of the parked cars on the road may or may not be relevant but it could be that the silence of the OP on the matter since this morning indicates that she has discovered they were not illegally parked. Just a thought.

Fenton Bosnia-Herzegovina Fri 19-Jul-13 17:46:03

I thing the point is, not how you perceive it OP, but the road markings in this case.

On the face of it, it seems wrong that cars are parked on both sides of the road and possibly an emergency vehicle couldn't pass. However, roads such as these are assessed for emergency access and thoroughfare and if the council deems necessary it will restrict parking.

I used to live in a street just as you describe and although a bit on the tight side, the ambulances could get down there (we even had a high speed police chase down there on two occasions shock )

So if there aren't any parking restrictions it sounds like the driver was going to fast down a narrow route and really he's to blame.

I can understand you being shaken up though.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 17:46:52

Or, or, she has other things to do today, not RTA or Highway Code related. You know, like most people do?

Fenton Bosnia-Herzegovina Fri 19-Jul-13 17:50:59

Oh and by the way I do cycle and drive (not at the same time obvs)

As a cyclist you really do have to have the patience of a saint, remain calm and expect most motorists to act like knobbers towards you - then there are no surprises and you'll stay safe. Get irate and you'll get into difficulties.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 17:58:12

Exactly Fenton - I ride about 100 miles a week, mostly in heavy traffic. If I were to get irate and fume every time a driver acted like a wanker I wouldn't ride. You need a policy of zen-ness. Ride defensively, assertively and courteously and rise above the inanity that too many drivers bring to the road.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 18:10:01

Or, or, she has other things to do today, not RTA or Highway Code related. You know, like most people do?

You would think, but it was s/he who promised to report back. Ho hum. Once again, I'm seeing things from Theodora's pov.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 18:11:41

Quelle surprise! theodora has a twisted view of cyclists, bless.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 18:16:24

But just one thing before I go Pan, in the OP's own telling:

I looked for oncoming traffic.There was a car coming down the long road but it seemed to be along way away I KNOW I had time...so I turned and rode,

so Neo DID see it (it didn't appear afterwards) but misjudged the distance/time available (still doesn't mean s/he's to blame necessarily, the other driver might have sped up). So I'm not sure the 'collective reading and comprehension failure' is all on the one side.

You need a policy of zen-ness. Ride defensively, assertively and courteously and rise above the inanity that too many drivers bring to the road.

Excellent policy. Insert 'and cyclists and even pedestrians' after 'drivers' and it will be damned near perfect.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 18:18:47

Quelle surprise! theodora has a twisted view of cyclists, bless.

Damn!! I wanted to win the award for patronising tart on this thread, but Pan, I bow...

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 19-Jul-13 18:19:45

Give the op a break, she was wide awake at about 3am probably quite shaken up its hot she's likely to have come in from work (if she has) and fallen asleep I know I want to.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:21:01

is there a collective reading-and-comprehension failure?

Is there a failure to read beyond the first post?

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 18:22:09

I'll share the accolade. But it's often soooo hard to not patronise drivers.grin

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:29:58

So if there aren't any parking restrictions it sounds like the driver was going to fast down a narrow route and really he's to blame.

Well, not necessarily if the OP saw him and misjudged the distance/speed/gap.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:30:56

The only people not at fault for the accident are the owners of the parked cars. they have only committed a parking violation.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 18:37:41

Which alternative universe are you inhabiting Soup? OP is riding a push bike at 5-10mph, the car is doing 25 possible? A tonne of metal, glass and plastic. Let's see. Which one has the 'power' in this scenario? In a civilised world where does the accent on 'causing a life-threatening danger' lie? This isn't a 'battle of equals', and from the account the possibility of driving too fast on a narrow route is highly likely. As a bikist one doesn't 'take on' cars coming at you.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:40:34

I'm living in the real world, which one are you in?

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:41:57

The power is irrelevant.
The OP misjudged the speed and distance involved.
The car misjudged as well.
Neither are free from blame.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:43:38

As a bikist one doesn't 'take on' cars coming at you

Well, I never said that one does. However, being a bikist doesn't make one immune from making a misjudgement.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 18:49:38

No, there was no 'misjudgement' from the OP's account.
In any case, in driving my car in this situation (as most drivers probably would) I'd slow down and (heaven forefend) actually stop to ensure we all got out of the situation nicely and recognise that bikes and cars are different. In this case, the driver appears to have decided he has more entitlement and bike has to get out of his way. Probably.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 18:58:33

Oh, so when she saw there was a moving car further up the road she did not misjudge its speed or distance? Not sure how it ended up right next to her at the wrong place then.

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 19:02:54

In case you missed it There was a car coming down the long road but it seemed to be along way away

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 19:05:07

Hmm, so what were the choices? Stop and hope for the best? And car speed changes (as she speculated) so speed and distances are variable, and she can't be expected to anticipate the drivers intentions to speed up or slow down in this situation.
The other curious thing is the fact that it all took place on the driver's side. So not having to imagine a further six feet or so of space. IT was all there right beside him. And he still decided to drive on. One can only hope there is an expensive body shop bill to meet.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 19:06:54

Yeah I made exactly that point Soup but Pan ignored it (or misjudged the speed grin), possibly because it didn't tally with her assertion that everyone was misreading the thread and that The car appeared in view after she was on the now-infamous road

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 19:08:16

no I didn't miss it, thanks. But unless she has Time Lord capability she can't leap forward to the next time-frame and work stuff out for the driver. Lordy knows we have to try to do that often enough.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 19:09:07

And Pan very few people are asserting that the driver was entirely innocent or even denying that he was mostly at fault. The one person who doesn't seem to be blaming him is the OP!

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 19:10:06

So, still ignoring the fact that there was misjudgement on both sides.
Cyclists are not some perfect beings imbued with the ability to always be in the right and not make a mistake. The only ones not at fault here are the parked cars.

But it is obvious that you will never admit a cyclist could have been wrong. It's as much "quelle surprise" as you earlier claimed about Theodora.

I'll leave you to it.

.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 19:11:51

Thanks Pan but the point still remains that the sequence of events (on the OP's telling) is different from yours on the basis of which you decided that all the other posters had had a reading/comprehension fail!

But yes second -guessing cyclists other road users is apain and no mistake! grin

SoupDragon Fri 19-Jul-13 19:11:51

Its not time lord capabilities, it's called hazard perception

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 19:13:38

oh no, don't be so extreme Soup. Cyclists can sometimes be at fault. I've seen lots of madness on two wheels,and cringe at it. It feeds the anti-cyclist mob, because they usually like to extrapolate in a dumb way, unfortunatley.

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 19:16:42

okay, Soup, hazards change in nature and immediacy depending on circs. Driver chose to increase the hazard, safe in the knowledge his life and limb wasn't at risk.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 19:24:48

But you're the one extrapolating now Pan (stoppit you'll go blind f'nar). The OP has stated more than once that the driver was shaken, apologetic, concerned. Nowhere has she mentioned the callousness that you appear to be seeing in him.

Driver chose to increase the hazard, safe in the knowledge his life and limb wasn't at risk.

If that isn't imposing a preconceived notion of what "all" drivers I like then I'm Shirley Temple.

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 19:26:09

<sings> On the good ship lollipop, it's a nice trip into bed we pop...

Just trying to lighten the mood people...it's Friday after all!

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 20:11:18

There's a massive difference between speculating and extrapolating, Shirley. Shall I explain it for you?smile

antimatter Fri 19-Jul-13 20:17:55

didn't read all of replies but it is important to remember that both users of the road have this resonsibility:
https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/control-of-the-vehicle-117-to-126

^You should always reduce your speed when

the road layout or condition presents hazards, such as bends
sharing the road with pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, particularly children, and motorcyclists^

so he should have driven slower using road with badly parked cars.

antimatter Fri 19-Jul-13 20:18:08
antimatter Fri 19-Jul-13 20:22:16

re-reading your comments OP I believe that the driver of the car was at fault, shame you didn't take his reg plates

EvieanneVolvic Fri 19-Jul-13 21:56:06

<Sigh> You've done it again Pan.

There's a massive difference between speculating and extrapolating, Shirley. Shall I explain it for you?

ie offloading your own mistakes onto someone else. Gotta luv ya.

Over and out thanks

Panonabike Fri 19-Jul-13 22:55:28

Is that it, Evienne? Bit of a whimping out?

OP, update us some time. And thanks antimatter for the guide and directions.

EvieanneVolvic Sat 20-Jul-13 09:16:03

Is that it, Evienne? Bit of a whimping out?

Fascinating. I always thought that wimp/wimping was spelt without the h and a tiny bit of unscientific research has shown me to be right. Yet since there are obvious semantic connections with whimper it would make more sense for the h to be there.

kungfupannda Sat 20-Jul-13 09:41:15

Both the OP and the car-driver were at fault to some extent.

The OP has clarified that the car was already in the road, and that she knew/thought she had time to get clear. She didn't. Even if the other car speeded up, he was already travelling past the obstruction and therefore had right of way and the OP should have waited. This was a fairly simple error of judgement, but still technically places her at fault to some extent.

But the fact that it was his right of way doesn't absolve the car driver of the need to take car - he can't just drive into someone because he doesn't think they should be there, any more than he can just run a pedestrian over because they've walked out in front of him. Although it sounds like he made an error of judgement too, rather than simply ploughing on deliberately.

So both the OP and the car driver made a mistake that contributed to the incident but the car-driver's mistake was probably the more serious one.

In relation to the parked cars, legally, none of those drivers would be held at fault in relation to the incident. They were parked and therefore a pre-existing hazard that both the OP and the driver should have reacted to.

I would also be extremely surprised if an entire street of cars is parked illegally on a daily basis - as someone else said upthread, illegal parking is a massive money spinner for local authorities and a report of a whole street of cars would generally have the nearest traffic warden dispatched at speed for a spot of gleeful ticketing.

Some places are just busy in terms of parking. It's just one of the hazards of living and travelling in busy, built-up areas.

If the cars are parked illegally then obviously they should be reported, but it's still ultimately down to the moving road users to take appropriate care, just as if the cars were a legal hazard.

aquashiv Sat 20-Jul-13 09:50:57

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