To think that Jamie Oliver is being ideological.(70 Posts)
This is probably old but Psychologies tweeted it and im quite disappointed in them for phrasing it in the inflammatory way that they did.
Its an article on how young people expect too much and people like Jamie Oliver has said that not enough young people are prepared to graft and do work experience and internships .
All very well for him to say but a lot of young people cant afford to work for no wages. A lot of them may have parents who have been hit by the economic crisis and/or on low wages or have a disabled parent at home.
Jamie Oliver is a very stupid man who got lucky. Just look at his comments on UKIP.
Why he feels the need to comment ok politics and youth issues, I have no idea. He should stick to cooking.
Kids today do better in exams, do fewer drugs, drink less and are generally achieving more than those before them.
Jamie Oliver should STFU.
Doing better in exams means nothing if it can't be translated into the world of work.
Id forgotten about the UKIP thing.
I did also see a comment that he only has 2 GCSEs himself.
'not enough employers are willing to pay people to work for them' is the correct response to that.
Yet teenagers are urged universally to demonstrate the intelligence and learning they have in those exams, as a ticket to the future. Then it turns out that it's their fault they can't get a job because they know nowt and need to work a whole lot harder.
As for Jamie Oliver, I heard he was a member of the EDL... Anyone know about this?
I suspect that is bollocks.
I also wouldn't put any store on his comments on UKIP in the form they appeared in a newspaper.
Jamie Oliver is a posh brat. His mouth works faster then his brain.
You can't make a sweeping generalisation regarding a large proportion of the population!
I wonder if he'd do as well as he did, if he was young in 2013?
At which point did Jamie Oliver change from being likeable Essex lad who cooked to being soundbite supremo of Britain? Was it before or after he made his first million bucks?
Simmer down Jamie and get back in the kitchen, can't wait to see how hardworking your own teens will turn out...
YY Shelly He strikes me as the sort who has been happy to take advantage of the oppurtunities he has had and is one of those with the attitude of "If i can do it everyone can"
It's simplistic, but I don't think you can blame him for thinking it. It is extremely shortsighted and he probably hasn't thought about those who don't have the opportunities, or have them but can't take them.
It is definitely "If I can do it anyone can" - problem is that doesn't take into account that everyone is not you and not everybody finds the same things easy. What is taken for granted by one person is an extremely difficult, perhaps impossible, struggle for another.
I generally like Jamie but I don't think he's immune to being a bit shortsighted. Lots of people are.
A lot more people could take advantage of opportunities offered to them. Obviously not everyone could be Jamie Oliver. But there is a real culture of fecklessless in this country, and it is harming us as a nation.
There is a real culture of blaming the poor for the sins of the rich in this country which is harming us as a nation.
I used to have a soft spot for J.O even with his budget food containing saffron or his fifteen minute meals if one employs a sous chef. Lost all patience with him when he showed his kitchen-garden bigger than Heathrow Airport.
I wonder if he would be so concerned if his many DD's follow the path his own missus has taken.
Blaming the poor for the sins of the rich? Who does that? All the hate I see is aimed at "banksters" and "fat cats".
I just think that more people need to fulfill their potential and not be content to coast along in life, particularly when they expect other people to work on their behalf to subsidise them.
I think one of the problems is that more young people feel trapped by circumstances beyond their control into a life of nothing but low pay than they did previously.
you must be fucking blind if you can't see the propaganda designed to make everyone hate people for being poor. Benefit bills being blamed for the state of the country's finances.
There are not enough jobs for everyone who has no work. That's not the fault of the unemployed. I don't know anyone on benefits who coasts along. Also everyone I know who is on benefits has earned money which went towards paying the benefit bill at that time.
I've never claimed benefits but i'm happy for my taxes to go on benefits. I'm not happy for it to pay Tesco's staff bill while they exploit the unemployed on workfare schemes.
It's almost as though Jamie thinks that anyone who is hard working and passionate can make 100million quid before they're 40. Just as he did.
This is not true. Financial, familial support, a favorable economy and a huge amount of luck got him to where he is today. But the reality is that not everyone can be that lucky.
I think that he is forgetting a lot, taking credit for too much and absolutely not being realistic. TV producers don't turn up in everyone's workplace talent spotting and they don't take on all the talent they do see.
He is an employer though? So surely able to have his own views and opinions on the people he is meeting? Wether or not we agree is another thing entirely obviously!
I do feel we've diminished skills and trades and put academia too high up with a 'one size fits all attitude'. For some young people uni and degrees are not the way forward but training in a job is.
Well said Waffly. Spot on there.
Agree with you, Dionne, too.
I can somewhat see his point. A good friend of mine is trying to recruit a junior for receptionist job. Pays above award wages and will pay for the person to get a nationally recognised qualification on the job. No interest. He simply cannot find anyone at all. He's really frustrated. The last person he put on left after she decided that making coffee for a client was beneath her. When I was coming out of school, those sort of jobs would have had queues around the block.
I do wonder if there is a culture where some younger people (and some older ones!) expect everything handed to them. We hear so much now about children not being allowed to fail, no more awards for achievement lest we ruin the self esteem of other students, no more real drive for competition in some aspects of their lives. What's wrong with telling young people that they're going to have to fight for what they want in life, work hard, get some dirt under their fingernails and get beaten down a few times? It's a fact. When did people become so fragile that giving them the simple truth about life became taboo?
Didn't see the comment but based on recent experience (office) I would agree there is a tendency to feel certain work is beneath you based on some entering employment these days. I have definitely seen it and it annoys the heck out of me.
I agree midnite. Kids don't seem to be allowed to fail when young now eg school sports days etc and I think a hard lesson of life is that you have to work hard and still that's not enough sometimes.
I don't think we are setting up our kids to know how to pick themselves up after a disappointment.
Not everyone can succeed like Jamie Oliver but everyone can do the best they can in each situation. There is an expectation of it being handed to you that we didn't all have.
I don't know where you live to not get a junior receptionist - where I live you would have too many applicants to read them all!
My DS was unable to get a simple job in a coffee shop or stacking shelves- just too many people wanting them. A new shop opened with 53 vacancies - counting everything - office staff, warehouse, shop floor etc and 360 people applied.
DS has just got a job at his correct level but it took 13 months and every job he applied for had competition of over 100 people.
Our coffee shops, supermarkets etc are staffed by graduates who can't get jobs and they are not useless or work shy - they are desperate to work.
I would have loved DS to get work experience or an internship but we simply couldn't afford to keep him in the places he would have needed to go- e.g London. They are for the rich and that is why universities have stopped advertising them.
There are not enough jobs. When I was at school you could easily get a Saturday job- you wandered up the High Street asking and eventually someone had a vacancy- they asked you which school and you started. I didn't even know what a CV was! DS had a CV from 16yrs. For a part time shop job at Christmas he had a group interview where they had initiative type tests and those who did the best got a personal interview. I don't know how many applied, but 30 were at the first interview and there were 2 jobs. He tried to get a Saturday job at Pizza Hut- when he phoned up to find out why he hadn't heard they had 100 applicants.
I think that we are failing an entire generation and I get really angry when people make out that the young don't want to work or can't work hard enough and would love Jamie Oliver to tell me how my DS could have afforded to work with no wages.
He was also willing to accept low pay but I thought he was going to be hard pressed to live in London on £13,000 and that we would have to subsidise him. He has at least started on a realistic salary now.
Employers are also out to exploit. Back in my day you got a simple Saturday job- now they get 'and can you do Sundays as well' and 'which evenings can you do?' They have exams - they need to study. DS got one holiday job in a pub simply because he said he wasn't going on holiday and he could work any hours. They want a cheap labour force they can send home when quiet and phone up when busy.
Internships and work experience are , all too often, free labour that leads nowhere.
In sorry exotic - that sounds really tough for your ds. And it makes me wonder whether my experience is based where you live. The employment situation isn't great anywhere but the costs of living in the south seem exorbitant.
There aren't enough jobs, but I don't think that means we can't encourage our kids to put in the hard yards and keep at it. Persistence is something that everyone needs to learn.
I must say that I'm quite impressed with a scheme that has been introduced here. Students can now study an apprenticeship or traineeship alongside their senior high school classes (grade 11 and 12 here). It is undertaken during school time, and usually takes the place of one or two subjects. The young boy across the road took on a carpentry apprenticeship. He went to TAFE (technical college) one day per week, school three days and worked on a building site one day per week and during school holidays (for which he was paid apprentice wages). After two years he walked away with his senior certificate (high school graduation) and began as a third year apprentice (and on third year apprentice wages). I think it's good as it's giving students the opportunity to learn a trade, but also keeps them in school to complete their senior schooling (which will enable them to enter university if they so desire when they are older). It also means that they can complete their very low paid apprenticeship years whilst still at school and are still being supported by their parents. Employers are given incentives for taking on students on this scheme. Within a few years of leaving school he will be in a position that he is fully qualified and able to set up his own business if he so desires. We also have a workplace based traineeship scheme, where the government will subsidy employers for the cost of putting staff through on the job traineeships (retail, administration, etc). It means the young person is working, earning but also learning.
I really think schemes like this are something that should be encouraged. We need to get creative about developing opportunities for people, so that there are options if you want to work hard.
Luckily he got where he wanted to be- but 13 long months it took- which is why I am a bit sensitive about privileged people like Jamie Oliver spouting rubbish!
It is a huge disadvantage if you live in a rural location.
He even thought about changing to cooking as a career but he was too old to be taken on as an apprentice- he only looked into it superficially but there appeared to be no government funding after 21yrs- if he had wanted to do it then it should have been from school.
Sadly there are done people who do not take opportunities or want to do so.
I am involved with a small company who work with NEETs and many simply won't do things they deem as below them, things many of us would have done when first starting out would have done.
That's not fiction. That's not having a go at people who have no money. It's simply what is happening.
Apprenticeships are the way to go.
DS2 had a very good apprenticeship but they are like gold dust! He got a college place but couldn't get an employer - mid August and he still didn't have an employer and the only advice was to go back to school and do A'levels. He got an employer 2weeks before the college course started - after over 100 letters. He was lucky- there was then an economic downturn and his firm didn't take on any apprentices for about 3years.
It is also very difficult for school leavers to get jobs because they are all staffed by graduates!!
Jamie isn't a posh boy or priveleged. He worked very hard to get where he is - yes he was lucky too but that doesn't mean he can't comment. His 15 restaurants are meant to help disadvantaged kids get skills yet many of them drop out. This is his experience of employing young people. I can see why he would get disheartened.
I don't know what ideological means in this sense.
Youth Unemployment is a massive problem in the UK. why should companies set 18 year olds on when they can set a 21 yr old graduate on for the same money?
Thats where a lot of young people leaving school/college will struggle now and moving forwards.
However the more it is talked about, the more we say 'young people can't get jobs/can't get jobs they want to do/can't get jobs that aren't beneath them' the more we talk our young people into believing it.
A lot of the problems start at school/college where kids are told by parents and teachers and advisers 'you can be anything you want to be'. So lots of kids work towards degrees in Media Studies, Travel and Tourism, Law degrees. Whilst those who don't want to go to uni toddle off and do a Hair and Beauty Course, or a Childcare Course, or a Mechanics course.
In reality we have a massive amount of young people who could change your oil or do you a nice bob and colour, whilst in particular the building trade is struggling, even now when its just slowly starting to pick up, for young people who can learn a trade.
We run a small construction company. My DP would love a 'young lad' to set on and develop and train. We advertised offering way over the going rate for an apprentice. No one who applied had the relevant CSCS card, no one had any type of basic education in any kind of construction despite our local college offering a range of courses, none of the applicants had safety boots, a tape measure or a pouch and none were willing to pay a portion of their first weeks wages towards them if we bought them for them.
By the time we'd taken into consideration NI payments, sick pay, holiday pay plus their wages, plus paid for them to go on the safety course, plus got them their basic safety gear it would have cost us to set someone on, especially in the first 6 months as they would have needed 1 to 1 training and support just to keep them safe on site.
Had we had applicants from young people who had at least done a college or vocational qualification in the trade they would have had a working knowledge of site safety, their basic site safety training and their basic gear.
It's hard dirty work in the building trade and you do start at the bottom and work your way up. No one dreams at school of 5am starts, 10 hour shifts and labouring for someone else for 2 years before you are allowed to even think about actually building something. But thats how it is in the industry. Now DP is on very good money. We have our own small company and managed to keep going through the worst of things finacially over the last couple of years and keep 4 men in full time work. BUT that is only because DP has a good reputation as being a bloody hard worker. He's just worked 13 days on the bounce and has another 6 day week this week. Lots of the young people we interviewed were more concerned with weekends off and how many holidays they got.
We can't afford to carry someone and many employers will feel the same in this day and age. My advice to any 13/14 year old wondering about carers would be to look at where the gaps are in the market. The building industry is just on example. There is and will be a massive shortage of skilled tradesmen and women. It might be little Michaels dream to be an architect one day but 3/4 years at uni to qualify won't mean jack if there are no tradesmen to put his designs into reality.
"genuine compassion is based on a clear acceptance or recognition that others, like oneself, want happiness and have the right to overcome suffering. On that basis, one develops cOncern about the welfare of others, irrespective of one's attitude to oneself. That is compassion."
The Dalai Lama
In other words - don't be judgey about people buying one-pound burgers.
And wot Waffley sed.
But frouby how do you know at 13 or 14 where there is a gap in the market or which industries are doing well/swamped with applicants/less popular? Especially if those aren't your parent's trades or your parents are out of work. It would be great if all young people could find suitable places to work but in my experience the school support was limited to helping you work out which area you wanted to work in (turned out totally different to what I wanted to do once I'd tried it) and then pointing you towards courses, not giving any advice on how to actually seek information on the industry itself.
When I said that Jamie Oliver was 'privileged' I merely meant that he was speaking from a privileged position now.
Career advice is sadly lacking in UK.
Those at school have no idea of the job situation.
I was talking to a 15yr old on work experience last week- only general chat because she happened to be with me for 30 mins- she was quite unrealistic but I didn't think it my place to tell her so.
Her father had started work at 15yrs and worked his way right up.
I agree Yoni. Schools, careers advisers and parents need to help young people make informed decisions as to what to work towards to give them the best chances of getting work in the future.
You can't make a child choose a course they will hate, but you can help steer them away over subscribed courses with few real career opportunities once qualified.
And before a young person commits to a particular course try and speak to a variety of people at different stages of their careers in that industry to get s real idea of what is involved in the early part of their career and how it could progress. Work experience where at all possible is invaluable imo.
I agree that there aren't enough jobs but some unemployed people do not want a job.
My 17 yo nephew has had a job since he was 15 1/2 in the industry he wants to work in (retail) and has had 3 jobs (sometimes overlapping). Whilst studying at sixth form.
His dad (my DB) has been out of work that whole time (except for the odd days cash in hand work). It he really wanted to work he could have found something but he's happy not to.
And that's not me blaming the poor, just real life examples of where there's a will, there's a way.
I do think that there is starting to become a shift in the traditional career paths, and it should be encouraged. I'm noticing most new teachers are more mature, having had a variety of different jobs and careers whilst completing their degree at night. Or in Froubylou's example above of Mikey wanting to be an architect. Rather than going straight to university after leaving school, he might go and do a building apprenticeship and work on the tools for eight years while completing his degree in architecture at night. He'll not only be able to support himself, he'll have years of hands on experience in the industry, which will make him more attractive to employers.
Jamie is being ideological. And he was a middle class privileged guy when he started.
I volunteer with young people, mainly boys, in a deprived area up north. Most of these wonderful teens are not white. I can tell you now that despite begging practically every business in the city to take on one of the teens for work experience (free unpaid work!), not one of the teens has secured a place. Yes Jamie waltzes through 'deprived' towns and cities spouting his crap, but he really really has no idea about the harsh realities faced by all young people these days. And the worst group by far are young people who live in poor areas, whose schooling is poor quality, who have disrupted family lives and spend their lives fighting poverty and prejudice.
Like others here I am absolutely suck to death of people like JO bashing the poor. I just can't stand him and his smug face.
"Jamie isn't a posh boy or priveleged. He worked very hard to get where he is - yes he was lucky too but that doesn't mean he can't comment."
That. One can blame luck for not making your millions by the time one is 40, but getting a job is not a matter of luck but a matter of getting off that sofa.
His parents own a gastropub in Essex. I'd call that posh.
I remember watching Jamie's Kitchen when he was trying to launch his restaurant and the attitude of some of the kids on it irritated me - I thought he bent over backwards for them.
I don't like the snidey comments about his education, either. Doesn't he have learning difficulties? Those few GCSEs are a real achievement for him - or do we need a minimum qualification before we're allowed to have an opinion?
I am a careers adviser ...our service has been cut by 55% and we no longer work in schools and colleges as Gove felt schools should do that (they aren't)
There is very little in the way of independent, unbiased careers advice for all young people. We only work with statemented young people, those in care, care leavers, the unemployed and a few more tiny select groups.
I do my job because I like young people and I like supporting them and helping them achieve ...young people do want to work and they do have ambition but options are increasingly limited
His parents didn't own a gastropub - i think they ran a pub - that's not 'posh'
Jamie is one of the few powerful people out there who takes a risk and tries to make a difference. I think it's better than doing nothing.
When I read Mumsnet I am aware of the massive differences there are nationally. I accept what you are saying baking novice and I can see why his comments irk you. Here in south east, there are jobs. Many of my Polish and Bulgarian friends have had no problems in finding work and doing well - yet many of the young locals, (my wider family included) don't fancy working. I think those are the people Jamie is targeting. I can see that wouldn't apply to different areas.
I think Jamie Oliver is great, he's passionate about what he does, including giving countless opportunities to disadvantaged youngsters.
Some of the bashing on here about him is horrible and so personal.
I think the silent majority would agree.
They own the pub and he went to private school.
Jamie needs to remember he has had immense advantages in life. Yes, he works hard but so do lots and lots of people who haven't been as well rewarded.
I actually think it is rather crass to suggest an entire generation are works work shy, especially coming from a multi-millionaire.
I think people in general don't do as much physical work as was the norm in the 50s and 60s, not through laziness, but because everything is motorized.
My DBs used to mow the lawn with a hand mower, lop branches off trees with a saw, rebuild their bikes or repair punctures, we swept and weeded the drive. You just don't see people outside with a broom in their hands nowadays. It was a lesson in doing the boring jobs and finding reward, grateful parents, afterwards.
Why don't shopkeepers sweep in front of their shops, or house dwellers sweep the pavement - oh, of course we'd rather pay the council to do it every 6 months.
I don't like all the bashing of young people. No one talks about the many things they are doing in the volunteer sector. My DS couldn't get a job, and we couldn't afford to keep him on an internship away from home, but he has been working for a charity and using his particular expertise and doing a second voluntary job. Thousands of graduates are working in retail, catering etc- they are not just sitting there refusing to get out of bed because they can't find the 'right' job. Unfortunately it means that if the graduate with a 2:1 in a science subject is washing up in a restaurant he is taking the job from a 16yr old who might have had it in the past.
JO did have advantages AFAIK - including a supportive family who were bothered about him doing well. I don't think the importance of that can be understated.
I think he is too sanctimonious for his own good and he winds me up.
I do find him sanctimonious and he has an unfortunate way of putting things but in terms of the work he does with 15 and in terms of being an employer himself, I think he's entitled to say what he sees. It's unfortunate that he doesn't dig a little deeper to see the causes of some of the issues though.
My oh is an emoyer in a trade sector. He has work experience kids, he has apprentices as well as fully qualified. He also has kids coming to him to train instead of school, so your school refusers.
He's had youngsters steal, lazy not turning up when they should, disappearing off the face of the earth, kids without any communication skills.
Yes he's had a mixed bag, some good. Some awful. But recently the bad lazy ones have outweighed the good and he has struggled to find ones who actually want to work.
He patronisingly addressed me as "Sister" in a tweet, so I obviously think he's a patronising git.
Internships are only available to people with parental support, within striking distance of their family home. Not a lot of use if you're unemployed, live in Reading and are offered 1 month in Jamie Oliver's office, is it? How on earth can you take it?
I am heavily in favour of the Jobcentre's work experience scheme, but stunned at how little interest there is in it. I have taken on three people in my tiny company on that scheme and employed all three of them at the end of it, but they were all fairly middle class to start with, and living with their supportive parents (who could probably have supported them on an internship if need be anyway). I don't know why there was no interest from people with other backgrounds - the Jobcentre struggled to find people to send to me and all I needed was "interested in working in an office in the design industry", not an MBA. There are about 2,500 on JSA in my city, and they'd be getting it anyway while working with me, as well as being entitled to go to as many interviews etc as they liked during the placement. What is there to lose?
His parents own a small pub in a village in Essex and he went to Grammar school not private school.
How did he win a place at grammar school if he has only just read his first book?
I remember I wanted to work vaguely in "media". I had no idea of the different jobs in media and everywhere I tried to research I hit dead ends. Eventually managed to speak to a friend's dad who was incredulous that I had no idea of the different jobs (which made me feel frustrated because I was trying!) and then said, god, whatever you do, don't study "media" at university.
Seems obvious now but when you're 14 and all you've ever known is school and possibly your parents' industries (if they even have one, my mum was a waitress and then unemployed due to long term sickness) and the school are nicely pigeonholing everyone, oh you want to do media, go on this media course... you just have no idea.
I don't want schools to go back to "You're useless and will never amount to anything, now do a typing course, girls can't be doctors!" but I don't think that giving wildly inaccurate career advice is helpful either. What young people need is low status jobs which can lead somewhere and which, crucially, give you an insight into a particular industry and how it works so that you can work out where you fit in that one, if you indeed fit into that one at all. Once you leave school and start meeting other adults you learn loads about different jobs, but teachers and career advisors just don't seem to know in enough detail.
College was great for me - all tutors were ex-industry workers. IMO that would be a great asset, if secondary school science teachers had worked in labs or engineering or as a vet, english teachers in publishing or journalism, etc etc. It's not realistic but it would be fantastic for young people.
Wiki says he went to a state comp.
I don't like youth bashing - the old have a lot to answer for - they should be bashed too.
I feel sorry for kids who are growing up with no support or aspiration and in a system that allowed them to do nothing. It's not their fault.
NaanBread how long has that scheme been running? I've never heard of it until now.
exoticfruits you're taking this very personally about your son, but it's really not an attack on him at all. Yes, he's had a hard time of it, but he persisted. And that is the whole point. He could have said 'sod it, I'll sit on benefits for the rest of my life', but he hasn't. He's done the hard work, he's doing work experience, he's volunteering. He's a child you should be proud of, and he will go far.
I think exoticfruits son sounds very typical of the youth of today not the lazy arse cliche that the media like to bandy about.
I agree that I am taking it personally but he is one of many- I know so many similar.
The job centre were useless- I'm not surprised there is little interest- I have never heard of it for a start.
Schools are full of DCs that mess about, play up the teachers etc and they are not going to be employable unless they change their attitude. That doesn't mean that they are all like that.
Quick question on this subject, are children still being pushed into Uni? When I was at school we were effectively given the choice of "you either go to college and Uni or you get a job as a shelf stacker". There was no other advice about work based courses,C&G (as it was way back when!) and no encouragement to find your own way.
This didn't help me at all, I went to college, dropped out and found my own work experience course doing the new NVQ with no outside help.
Is this the advice still given or has it changed and become more broad minded? Are children being given the encouragement while still in school to actually find work and gain qualifications in a different way now, and if not, how does this impact on youth employment?
DS is year 8 and is adamant that he doesn't want to go to Uni, he has a career in mind that will be work based so this is in our interest.
Pushed to Uni- most don't need it. They then get the sort of job that you used to get after O'levels in my day.
I have 10 yrs between my DCs and the job situation is much, much worse than it was 10 yrs ago.
It was one of the part grammar, part comprehensive - it's now a comprehensive.
Thanks exotic, it's just as I feared then..
I know the drop out rate for first year students is pretty high in some places (anecdotal, I have a friend who works in admissions at a large Uni). The penny hasn't dropped then obviously.
I too agree with Waffly If there is a job that needs doing it should be paid.
Naan in my Op i did state some reasons why young people from all sorts of backgrounds cant take up "oppurtunities" like working for no wage.
If someone is doing a work placement it is highly likely a parent who is on low wages themselves could be struggling to subsidise that. How long are they on work placement with you before you employ them? Im not a young person but i have experienced workfare a couple of times. The most recent time was in very early 2007 I knew it was coming and that travelling to a different town was going to cost extra. In 2006 my DH had a heart attack and was attending a cardiac rehabilitation session once a week at the hospital. He never completed it. He had to stop going so we could save the money on petrol/taxifares because the Job centre were sending me on "placement" which was going to cost us for me to do. But i had no choice because i would have been sanctioned if i hadnt done it. IMO DH not completing that course has not helped his health.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.