AIBU to think choosing not to have a child does not make you "unlucky"?
Saw a vile bitch frenemy at a gathering at the weekend who has really REALLY REALLY got my dander up by twatting on about how "lucky" I am to have children.
Basically, she's always wanted children in a semi half assed fashion, but has never wanted the hard work and sacrifices that go with raising a family.
Which is fine, and absolutely her choice. I just strongly object to the inference that I was "lucky" because I wanted children more than I wanted a disposable income/sleep/flat stomach/freedom/yadda yadda yadda.
Sorry. Rant over. Pg hormones.
PS: I know she isn't infertile and I'm not taking a pop at anyone else who can't have children for medical reasons.
I can't understand why you are quite so upset by her comment. Maybe if you don't like her, anything she said may have upset you?
How can you know she isn't infertile, if she doesn't have kids?
I suppose it is fortunate when someone is clear on the path they want to take in life rather than being so conflicted that they feel torn and feel they cant make a good choice no matter what they do-they lose.
Do you know what lucky means? It's just you're saying "lucky" like most people would say "steaming dog turd".
I don't really understand the upset either
Sounds as though she was just making polite small talk.
I feel very lucky to have my children, I imagine most people do. I don't get why you are upset really
What a vile bitch. Calling you 'lucky' to have the children you dearly want.
I feel unlucky not to have children. I desperately want them. But I did not think it was appropriate to get "accidentally" pregnant with someone's child and I have not a met a man who would like to have children with me (and there is often flaming for the suggestion of intentionally having children alone). Now that is not purely unlucky as it is partly because I choose terrible men and am a bit of a fuck up but it is not because I have CHOSEN to have my career/sleep/disposable income. I would happily make the sacrifices involved and I will do one day.
Hard work and sacrifice ain't everyone's childrearing lot. Some of us just breeze along <pokes OP with Pointy Stick>
I feel very lucky to have the children that I do. They are lovely people. And even at the ages they are now (mid teens) they are great to have around.
I know parents that want their children to move out at a similar age to mine. I can't imagine feeling like that for a long time.
But how do you know she isn't having problems conceiving? When we were going through fertility treatment I brushed off any comments with a 'oh no, we're not ready for kids yet, I like my sleep too much!' while secretly dying inside at every pregnancy announcement.
So don't you think you're lucky? Do you regret wanting children and then being lucky enough to have them?
Yes, I do know what lucky means and it's exactly that that has narked me. It wasn't some random stroke of chance that means I now have gorgeous, bright, funny children and she doesn't. It's because I put the effort into having babies and raising them. I find it a bit demeaning phrase if I'm honest. I wouldn't call someone who spent twenty years practising to become a concert pianist lucky, and I don't like the same principle being applied to me.
I know I sound like I'm ranting (and I possibly am). I guess you'd have to know how much of a self pitying emotional vampire she is to realise that it wasn't intended as a compliment or small talk.
melbie snap. I also desperately want children. My current options are unprotected one night stand, sperm bank or adoption. Ho hum. Yup, saucyjack I think you're lucky too.
Exactly, intheshed. I know of at least a couple of friends who struggled with infertility and used to brush off said comments with 'no kids for us, we like our holidays too much' etc
Even if the lady in question in the OP isn't struggling with infertility, I don't see what she said that warrants being called a vile bitch.
Big unpleasant overreaction OP.
Wow, you could have found yourself infertile with all the heartache that goes with that, so actually I think you're lucky to have the children that you wanted. You sound quite horrible op
"It wasn't some random stroke of chance that means I now have gorgeous, bright, funny children and she doesn't. It's because I put the effort into having babies and raising them."
I put a lot of effort into trying to have babies... I was not lucky enough to have one. If you are infertile, you can put as much effort in as you like, but it wont make much difference will it, so yes lucky is the right word. You are lucky that you managed to get pregnant, and you sound quite cruel and unfeeling.
why is this worth more than a second of your time? Airheaded comment from someone you don't like. Smile and move on.
It wasn't some random stroke of chance that means I now have gorgeous, bright, funny children
It mostly was a random stroke of chance you know. Being able to have kids when you want them is a stroke of luck and the rest is just grind. What you really want is your 'friend' to bow down to your uneek super-awesome speshul mummy-powers & gifts. Or a Nobel Prize for Motherhood. Well done you.
It sounds very much to me as though there's a back story she isn't sharing with you OP.
And you do realise that no matter how much effort is put into parenting 'gorgeous, bright, funny children' aren't a given for all?
That sounds like the excuse my friend gives out to others about why she doesn't have children. She uses her career as a reason when those of us close to her know a little more detail about the failed treatments.
I know being a mother is hard work but my 8 yr old has just spent the last 5 mins giving me cuddle for no other reason except I am his mum.
Yes it was a random stroke of chance. Just the same random chance that you might not be able to have any children....or suffer mc after mc....or have a boy when you had your heart set on a girl.....or had a child that struggled to read when you're a prize winning novelist. It is all random chance.
As Tondelayo said - being able to have kids is luck, the rest is just grind.
I've been trying for over 3 years to have a child, including countless tests, examinations, laparoscopy and a round of ivf that we paid for ourselves. So, I think I've put in a pretty good effort. Sadly, we're unlucky that dh has a very low sperm count due to being born with an undescended testicle. Fertility really is down to luck.
We haven't told anyone that about what we're going through and I brush off the endless comments about when we're going to have kids with a "oh not ready for all that yet" so don't assume she isn't trying.
I think anyone who has "gorgeous, bright, funny children" is lucky.
Lots of people can't have children, for medical or other reasons (including no partner, lack of money etc).
Lot of people have children who aren't "bright". Some even have children who are ill, or have SN, or who just aren't as perfect as the op's for various reasons.
Having happy children is luck too, not just down to parenting.
So, your friend may be a bitch, I don't know. But you aren't sounding too nice yourself
You haven't finished raising your children yet OP
But this thread is making you sound like a bit of a martyr to it.
Ah now, you are being a bit smuggo. Totes echo what Mary said.
A concert pianist is lucky to have the gift of talent to work with. So they are lucky too.
Every child is a gift. More should think that way
Can't remember who said it but there's a quote that goes something like "genius is 1% talent, 99% hard work".
Also "the harder I practise, the luckier I get" springs to mind...
You're lucky that you conceived and carried children who are now healthy and gifted.
I also believe (as a mother of two) that you have worked hard and put in the graft.
But you're still lucky.
And that's all she's said....based on the snapshot you've given us and a few friends I know, I would have thought she's quite envious of you.
Be grateful for what you have, and save the "motherhood is tough" chat for when you're with other mums. Of course she doesn't understand how many years it takes to get them to say please/thank you and not eat like animals, but why should she? It's not your place to educate her on how tough parenting can be at times.
Your title asks it the other way around - does choosing not to have a child make you unlucky? No it doesn't. But having children that you wanted to have or are glad you've got makes you lucky. Plenty of people want children but they don't always manage to have them.
Some people will get pregnant easily or by accident and make little effort in raising their children yet will still have "gorgeous, bright, funny children" and others will try hard and be unable to have children or will have children who have lots of difficulties. Even the concert pianist will usually have a natural talent and won't get there just through hard work.
Of course, luck doesn't really exist so the whole concept is flawed. What it comes down to is, you can work really hard at something and not succeed or work really hard at it and succeed. Life is like that. Be glad your choice to have children is working well for you.
Have you ever thought that maybe she really wants a child and can't have one. Is very easy for you to say she's selfish and doing it in a half assed way. Yabu and a tad nasty. You don't know what's going on so why comment. In fact if I was her I would be more than happy that you were a frenemy and not a true friend.
Get over yourself.
I agree with everyone else that has posted.
I don't think the vile bitch is the woman that called you lucky.
I think you need to look closer to home. You don't sound like a very nice person.
Yabu- agree with what other posters have said. If she hasn't had a child there is absolutely no way you can tell if she is infertile. Equally there is no way you can tell if anyone is struggling with fertility unless they tell you. I have one son and am struggling and unlikely to have another. You wouldn't know unless I told you. I might call you lucky (because you are lucky to have a child or children even if you have put the hard work into raising them) and you might take offence.
Or it could be that earlier in her life she placed importance on her career and child free lifestyle which she now regrets because she'd really like a child. So she feels you are lucky in the sense you realised you'd like children earlier in life.
It's funny because until your option of not having a child whether it be a first, second or third is taken out of your hands I don't think you realise the immense pain this can cause you and how lucky other people become in your eyes.
I have a DD and I think I'm very lucky to have her, especially because we had six miscarriages before we had her.
I think you don't like this woman so are nit picking at what she said to justify not liking her. I can't see why you're annoyed at all, seems like polite conversation .
How on earth can you possibly know that she doesn't have fertility problems?
After three years of heartbreaking ttc, invasive tests, waiting and hearing of others getting pregnant, we now have DS.
We consider ourselves super lucky.
I'm 99.99999999999999999999999 per cent sure that she isn't keeping any fertility issues to herself, because quite frankly it is not in her psychological make up to keep her personal problems to herself, which is one of the main reasons I detest her so much. She's never held back from boring me with her woes before, and bitchy as it sounds she just would not be capable of keeping schtum on something so potentially sympathy inducing as infertility.
FrenchRuby I think you're right. I can't imagine her walking up to me and making any green eyed comment about my personal circumstances that wouldn't make me want to head butt her.
Why on earth would you even bother giving the time of day to someone you clearly despise? I agree with what others are saying YABU and sound quite smug.
Don't you feel lucky to have your children?
You sound awful.
In many different ways.
Well how on earth does anyone know (including her) whether she has fertility problems if she's not been TTC?
You need to woman up and cut this person out of your life if you detest her so much.
There's no such thing as a 'frenemy'...just 2 faced people who pretend to get along with someone and then bitch behind their back.
You sound really,viciously nasty.
You were lucky to be able to have the children you wanted.No amount of planning,or hard work,or sacrifice can guarantee anybody that.There is luck involved.
Hopefully,if the target of your vitriol is lucky too,then she will never have to encounter your bitterness again.
And btw,don't blame pregnancy hormones for the bitchiness in your posts,it's a cop-out.
You are making yourself sound awful.
If you detest her so much, don't see her. But right now it looks like you prefer to so you have someone you can bitch about and feel superior to.
Most adults aren't going to join in with your nastiness or view it as the choice of an emotionally healthy, happy individual.
And your mummy martyr schtick? Please, get over yourself. And maybe recognise your children are individual, whole people that will soon be making their own choices...lets hope mummy's influence is still so strong then. Because of course every positive thing is down to your parenting.
Op, I understand, I think,how you feel. I don't think you are terrible for feeling so pissed off with her. Don't waste your energy on her, or this thread.
Enjoy the sun with your dc, and let other people think what they want.
You seem nice.
If your children are bright, gorgeous and funny then it might be despite having you as a mother, not because.
YABU - if you don't like her, that's fine, but implying that people who don't have 'gorgeous, bright, funny children' just haven't put the effort is in appalling. This whole thread doesn't exactly portray you in a good light, so it might be worth considering how to avoid bringing out this side of yourself.
OP either you are having a bad day or there is a part of you that doesn't enjoy having children as much as you make out!
I think you have thought about it too much.
Her comment wasn't anything really...a bit like bus stop chit chat!
You have achieved a reasonably long thread so far though...
DoJo It is not an appalling thing to say, and if you really think it is then you're either willfully misrepresenting what I say or a teensy bit thick.
She is not childless due to infertility or baby loss or marriage breakdown or any other insurmountable problem.
She is childless because when push came to shove, she simply couldn't be bothered with the realities of having a baby.
This does not make her unlucky. And it does not make me lucky because I could.
You sound lovelier and lovelier with each post OP. Not.
I think this thread is fucking nuts lol.
OP I think you need a grip. she called you lucky not a raging cunt
She never described herself as lucky.
She described you as lucky because you had the children you had always wanted.If you hadn't managed to have those children,would you have felt unlucky then??Probably.So therefore,you are lucky you had them.
You really do have a bee in your bonnet.What did you want her to say?'Oh SaucyJack,you are so brilliant for sacrificing disposable income/sleep/flatstomach/freedom/yadda yadda yadda (your words),why you have truly earned your position as world's worthiest mother,I am an insignicant lowlife in comparison to you?'
Get over yourself.I seriously doubt she's still re-thinking that conversation 24 hours later in the same way you are.Perhaps it's time for you to expand your own indentity in terms other than motherhood,because your reaction to a simple comment like that is extreme,to say the least.She pushed your button,ask yourself why that particular button bothered you so much.
Because your description of what she has,says a lot about how you view yourself.Do you feel you are broke/sleep deprived/flabby stomached/tied down/yadda yadda yadda?
So she said you are lucky to have children and this has made you furious?
Wow, you have issues! You're also coming across really badly.
I still don't understand what your actual problem is.
I have kids, I'm lucky - I made a decision and its worked out. I'm a lucky cat, my kids are healthy, kind, annoying, smart, alive. That's luck - there is nothing worse than parents expecting to be thanked for having good fertility and even better timing.
If you don't like her, you don't like her <shrug>, but to what the big girls and boys do and just ignore her instead of getting worked up about imaginary slights.
I've certainly been feeling very lucky to have had my children (after a year and a half TTC and a miscarriage in between), especially after finding out one of my younger colleagues has been diagnosed with cancer, the treatment of which will leave her infertile several years before she was planning to try to conceive.
You are lucky too. Nothing to do with effort really.
Thanks OP - this thread has reminded me how lucky I am to have DS (which isn't always easy to remember after yet another 6am start!)
I sincerely doubt that her comments were engineered to make you angry. It's just something nice that people say.
I think you're worked up because someone you don't like spoke to you. I know someone very similar to how you describe this "frenemy". I can't imagine getting worked up at her calling me lucky (I know she'd say it in a sneering, insincere way, but I'd just ignore her.) I AM lucky.
My son makes me feel like the luckiest person in the world every day, and if you don't feel lucky to have your "gorgeous, funny, bright" children, then thats just sad, imo.
Imagine your children hearing you say that.
Please contact your acquaintance and request that next time, instead of saying something that could be deemed pleasant and complimentary, in order to avoid any confusion - she simply calls you a steaming dog turd.
You ARE lucky - and I'd be willing to bet she hasn't chosen not to have a child - the circumstances, or biology haven't worked out for her.
And yep, lucky is exactly what springs to mind when I look at my two - after six years to have them... we worked our arses off and still do - but we had a bloody large sprinkling of luck in there as well and I count my blessings for that. If anyone says to me I'm lucky to have them - I just smile and agree wholeheartedly.
I think you need to stop digging yourself into this hole where you're making yourself look a not very nice person now.
She is childless because when push came to shove, she simply couldn't be bothered with the realities of having a baby.
So fucking what? She made a comment in passing. You are way, way overthinking it.
Wow you are an angry person OP.
She didn't say anything wrong and you are grossly over-reacting.
I think you need to calm down a little.
I believe all who are able to conceive and have children are lucky and I have had four children. I would hazard a guess that there are many people who desperately want children and work very hard to achieve that - they no doubt think people with children are lucky.
Good grief, get things into perspective here.
You sound really really delightful OP.
Each post you update us with just makes you sound even worse!!!
YABU. You have no idea what's happening in someone else's life, no matter what assumptions you make. You only know her "public" face and even when someone appears very open they may just be good at keeping certain things to themselves. So don't judge, and go and think about something else more constructive.
OP, have you ever heard the old adage about stopping digging when you're in a hole?!
Why do you socialise with someone you clearly hold in such low regard?
You're in an incandescent rage about an inane comment over lunch
Clearly you don't like her.so mooooove on
Do you, with your wonderful children that you are lucky to have, not have anything else to brood over than this?
Maybe of the 2 of you she's happier with her choices because she certainly isn't going to be thinking about you or a passing comment now.
You can call her out on her reproductive laziness or you can actually do the hard work and look at yourself - why does this bother you so much, what does she have that you want? Why do you put yourself in a situation where she'll be able to <shock horror> pass a superficial comment to you if it winds you up so much? You are definitely coming across as the weird one tbh.
If you hate her - don't see her.
She was saying you were lucky. It doesn't follow she was implying she was unlucky. If she is childless out of choice then it's unlikely she thinks she's unlucky isn't it?
Get a fucking grip. You're presenting yourself as a really unpleasant person.
Gosh, a lot of people spectacularly missing the point of the OP.
But then this is AIBI, I suppose...
This thread is turning pretty awful - I'd step away OP. I don't think people want to respond to your actual point, and I suspect you're just going to be crushed in an avalanche of vitriol.
You are lucky, OP. She said something true.
If somebody looked at me and my life and my lovely children I would be delighted if they could say something as perceptive as calling me lucky.
Op, even if you weren't "lucky" in wanting children, you are lucky to be able to have had them, and for them to (so far) turned out to be happy and healthy. So unless there's something you're not telling, you are being massively unreasonable
So what is the point Don?
I think the point is that the op is seethingly furious with the "friend" for some reason and would be annoyed by anything she said.
I find it hard to believe that any parent would be so angry at being told "you are so lucky to have your children".
I think Maryz, that the op feels that luck is not the only thing that is involved in having children.
OP in a sense I get where you are coming from. People used to say to me, you're so lucky your DS sleeps so well and I used to think its not luck it's because I didn't have a social life and put him down at the same time every single night. When I knew the person saying it would be til all hours with her children visiting friends.
But if someone said I was lucky to have children, I would nod and say yes certainly am.
What huge effort did you put in to have children? Taking your knickers off?
Agree with Maryz, please Don enlighten us on the point of this thread. I struggled to see it when I posted hours ago and I still can't see it now. The OP is angry her life choice has been called lucky and she feels 'frenemy's' life choice is lazy therefore not making her own lucky? If that's the point I still don't get it.
I get that basking, but surely she is still "lucky" to have them, which is all the friend seems to have said. Presumably she didn't say "it is luck and only luck that gave you those children, you don't deserve them because you don't work hard enough, it's just luck. If I was as lucky as you I would have children too".
To be honest, it's a bit weird to be so upset about someone saying something so obviously true and innoffensive [baffled]
I think might be being a little unreasonable - because having children is a privilege and lucky as not everyone a) is fertile and b) is in a position to have children - and because maybe she either did want children and couldn't have or now regrets not having them.
Fuck me. Threads like this make me despair. Childless / free women being judged once again... Not only are we a waste of womanhood but no-one even wanted to breed with us...
You ARE lucky to have met someone you liked / liked you enough to have children with. I'm 43 and yet to be in that position. And when it happens I'm unluckily going to (probably) be approaching the menopause, given that I'd like to actually know the person I might consider to be spending the rest of my life with and he ain't on the horizon yet.
I've got an amazing career. I haven't 'bothered' to have children. I enjoy my disposable income / sleep etc.. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have 'bothered' to give it up (or not) had circumstances been different.
But always good to know that if I comment on my friends luck, they think I'm being a bitch.
Way to go the Sisterhood, sweetheart...
It boils down to having an inferiority complex wrapped up in a superiority complex.
The Op feels inferior in some way (and the hint is in the 'sacrifices' she has made...flabby stomach,lack of sleep,financial,being tied down etc),so when the chirpy 'frenemy' dares to say something about luck...well then,she must be knocked down as being a lazy self centred bitch who dared to not reproduce.
Have a look at yourself op,because you really aren't coming across as the one who is happier with their life choices.
What ifancyashandy said. Lots.
Wow. I thought only people in soap operas had frenemies and took offence at nothing much.
I can say having children was really easy. We had some sex. Raising them is a whole other ball game and the hardest thing I've ever done. I am lucky to have my dc, I am lucky to have found a man I want to have children with and I am lucky I conceive really easily. I don't always feel lucky I have to be a parent but that's just life isn't it? Sometimes the important stuff is hard.
But all this angst over some woman who has made different choices and decisions for whatever reason is crazy. Other people's decisions are not a value judgement on your decisions.
But having children is lucky isn't it? Motherhood is sometimes a relentless slog and there are days when you wish children came with a refund clause so you could send them back, but we're still lucky to have them.
Every time I see my friend, who finally has a much loved DD after many attempts at failed IVF, it makes me smile how lucky she eventually was, I also look at a friend who had a totally unplanned pregnancy and think how lucky she turned out to be. I also have friends who are childless by choice who I consider lucky to have chosen, and be very happy with, their lifestyle.
If your friend had made a snide comment about overpopulating the planet, parents being selfish, etc I'd understand your anger, but lucky seems fair enough.
flojo but you were lucky - I have friends who tried that and their DC didn't sleep through or go down easily till maybe two and a half! It's a combination of things.
I think that's what the OP is saying and that's not so bad as such.
What is irking, though, is the tone about this woman. I am nearly 34 and don't have DC yet because I focused on my career. Last month we missed ttc because I was away for work. I chose not to cancel that trip. Does this mean I can't be bothered to make the sacrifice? Well, in one way, yes. But it's massively judged to put it that way.
And also I really don't know how you know she isn't infertile. Seems a massive assumption. Or hasn't met the right person.
So yes YABU.
I suggest you acquire a grip, OP.
Flojobunny even with a regular bedtime and no social life for years my eldest still didn't sleep. He is now 17 and still only needs a couple of hours sleep a night and is up with the birds every morning.
So yes you were lucky.
SaucyJack you too are lucky as
1 you knew you wanted children
2 you met someone like minded
3 you managed to have the family you wanted so i assume no fertility issues on either side.
4 your children were born healthy and have thus far remained that way.
count your blessings and stop bitching about someone who was being perfectly pleasant to you.
You are being spectacularly unreasonable.
You knew you wanted children and your physical and social circumstances were such that you were able to make that wish come true. To have children in these circumstances is generally among the most lucky life events that can ever happen to anyone.
You are lucky. children are a gift - all parents are lucky. It is v hard to know the true reason why she hasn't got them. One of my best friends spent years telling me she couldn't be bothered with kids, too much hassle etc, before announcing she was pregnant with twins. All the time she had professed to not to be bothered she had been going to through round after heart breaking round of IVF, miscarriages, chemical pregnancies. I'd had NO idea. I'd personally written her off as a bit of a cold hearted self centred bitch (and feel terrible about that now).
This thread is making me feel like shit . I didn't meet Mr Right and decided to go down the donor route . I still consider myself very lucky that it worked DD is the best thing that has ever happened to me, but still OP I would consider you very lucky you met someone to have children with. Life is hard enough for those of us who are single without those who have what we want not even appreciating it. You are lucky OP. Show a bit of compassion. Why do you hate this woman so much anyway?
Had a gorgeous cousin who told me "I just couldn't imagine having kids at my age" as though I'd been the teen scandal of the family when I did. I was 24 years old with my first, same age as her now. That said, she's having fun and if I'd been talking about it with an older cousin just a year before back then, I probably would have said the same . An uncle said "My commiserations" and patted me on the back when I told him DD will be 13 in December. That made me laugh.
Wow, I have to agree with most people - you are BU and also quite nasty.
I discovered I have medical problems making it very unlikely I can conceive without treatment, after 2 mcs. Relationship in which I had the 2 mcs didn't work out either. Realistically given my age, by the time I actually meet someone with whom I would like to have children and get to the point where we are ready (cos, you know, guys tend not to like it if you demand to know how they feel about dc on the first date ), it is quite unlikely to work out. I will still try.
Most people I know have no idea.
I try to make the best of it and say similar things, wanting to focus on career and lifestyle etc. Even my DM had little idea until I burst into tears the other day having seen DNs. I am usually open but this, I am not.
So - never make assumptions.
I don't have children. I don't want them. I am married to the stunningly beautiful DW, and in a fortunate financial position.
I consider myself extremely lucky.
Closest friend is the same age, with a great job, and two kids, the eldest of which is now 13. I think he is very lucky too.
If you're more or less happy with your lot, then you are lucky.
Best of luck to all those who are ttc.
OP I think you are being totally unreasonable.
On the contrary I think you are indeed very lucky to have your children. You really do NOT know whether this other woman does have fertility issues or not.
You really sound quite unpleasant and for me, hiding behind a veil of 'pregnancy hormones' is no excuse & just makes you seem even worse.
Get over yourself, look around you and count your blessings.
DH and I decided not to have children as it would have been the wrong thing for us due to mental health issues. I do feel slightly bereft but all in all I'm happy with our decision.
saucyjack what I want to say to you would probably end up deleted.
You need to get a grip. You are lucky (as am I, as a mother of one, with a wonderful husband). I've worked hard, I've made the decisions I needed to make along the way, I and my family have no health worries. But for the most part it's luck. Life is all about lucky breaks and hard work.
You may have worked hard - but you've also been lucky. If you can't see that and have sympathy with others then you are not a very nice person and eventually it'll comeback and bite you on the bum!
YABU and you are lucky to have children.
I've got two and one on the way after two miscarriages and I think every single day how lucky we are as I know people who can't have children due to infertility, or because they haven't met the right person and are mid thirties and running out of hope.
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