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GP really arsey

(126 Posts)
sukysue Fri 12-Jul-13 22:26:52

Well aibu? took dd1 to gp for emergency appt to get antibiotics for cellulitis on her leg following insect bites . She is away at uni and is registered there now not at the home surgery but of course she is home now.Anyway she had to register as a temporary patient to see the gp today. When we went in she gave dd the antibiotics straight away within about 1 minites consultation it was 5 o'clock and we were the last patient waiting. She was on emergency surgery till 6.30. So while we were there I said to her oh dr could you please prescribe my dd some duac for her acne. She went on about how it was an emergency appt and that it wasn't really the time and place to ask for that,she then went on to say I have been here for 3 hours in surgery and I have had a terrible day . By the time she had finished moaning and being arsey if she had just given her the bloody duac we would have been gone already I explained that we wouldn't be going back any time soon as she was in uni and this was to prevent a waste of ours and their time getting an appt just for the duac,honestly we never go to the gp . I was very nice to her thanked her very much and creep arsed around her but it has really upset me to be honest it was such a little thing to ask of her there was no need for her to treat us like that. I just feel really deflated at her attitude. I wish I could do just a four and a half hour shift.

Sirzy Fri 12-Jul-13 22:29:27

I thought one appointment one problem was standard - even more so at an emergency appointment.

I also find it strange that a child old enough to be at uni needs a parent to ask for medicine for them anyway!

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Fri 12-Jul-13 22:30:58

I'm sorry, but I agree with her. Emergency appointments are for emergencies.

She is a temporary patient, she can make an appointment for the prescription.

MagicBaguette Fri 12-Jul-13 22:31:29

Yabvu.

That's not how a GP works.

You don't turn up and demand that they prescribe you something, and she is right that she shouldn't diagnose/prescribe something non urgent at an emergency appointment. It requires a consultation.

she probably shouldn't have moaned to you, but it sounds like you we're being a bit of an arse so she felt she had to explain herself in very blunt and direct terms.

claraschu Fri 12-Jul-13 22:34:19

GP being a jerk, if your other problem was quick. I hate this kind of officious behaviour- following the letter of the rule, rather than common sense and kindness.

Montybojangles Fri 12-Jul-13 22:34:20

One appointment, one problem. Emergency appointments are for emergency problems only, not for some prescription your dd should have arranged in good time with her regular surgery.
YABU.

Kasterborous Fri 12-Jul-13 22:34:36

Sorry but YABU. Emergency appointments aren't the place to discuss routine things. I had an emergency appointment the other week for a burned hand. I needed hay fever meds too but I made a separate routine appointment for that. That said I can see why you asked.

sukysue Fri 12-Jul-13 22:35:58

well dd really wasn't very well and actually nearly flaked out on me in there otherwise I wouldn't have gone with her but she asked me to go in with her . As mentioned we never go to the gp and I have never heard one problem one appt before is this normal protocol in all surgeries? Bit daft really cos by me asking it hs saved their time and it literally took 1 minite for her to do .

sunandstars Fri 12-Jul-13 22:36:55

Yabu.

An emergency appt. for a temporary patient is not for routine acne medication which she should be getting from her own GP at university. If she is at university she is old enough and should be respinsible for organising this herself.

The GP is very likely to have been doing other work in addition to the surgery time and have rheams of paperwork. Do you really think GPs just see patients in their surgery time and then go home?

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 12-Jul-13 22:39:23

She was right for all the reasons above. Why on earth did you even go in with a supposed adult, let alone ask for medication for her?confused That's a bit creepy.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Fri 12-Jul-13 22:40:36

Yes, it is normal protocol. Otherwise how the hell do they keep to schedule.

People moan when their appointment is running late, and moan when they can't cover everything they want.

Our GP has big signs saying that if you have two issues you need to book a double appointment. it is on their website too. In your case, you knew you had an emergency appointment. That means emergency issues.

Sorry, but YABU.

Sidge Fri 12-Jul-13 22:41:31

Generally speaking if you see a GP as a TR (temporary resident) then you should only receive immediate necessary treatment. That would exclude regular medication as it should be prescribed, monitored and reviewed by your own GP.

Also the GP may have been doing that clinic for 3 hours but may well have done a morning surgery from 0800-1230, then done home and hospital visits for a few hours then done an afternoon surgery from 1500-1830 for example.

idiot55 Fri 12-Jul-13 22:42:39

I think you we're not being unreasonable, you will have to go back, use another slot etc etc.

Perhaps if appointments weren't so hard to get, people wouldn't have to save up all their medical problems for when they finally get one. Not the GP's fault or the patients just an unfortunate sign of the times I guess.

ilovesunflowers Fri 12-Jul-13 22:43:38

It's minute not minite.

I doubt the doc had only had a 4 hour shift. They'd probably been doing home visits for hours as well. Yabu to want acne medication in an emergency appointment. Let your daughter get this herself when she's at uni.

BlackMini Fri 12-Jul-13 22:43:48

It was an emergency appointment, not for routine problems. The GP didn't have her notes to refer to either. YABVVU.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Fri 12-Jul-13 22:46:20

Yes yes, GP didn't have her notes. Didn't know for sure what she'd had in the past (she can't rely on your word). She would have had to do a full and detailed consultation as if for a first prescription. It wasn't a 2 minute job.

Why didn't your DD get this dealt with before she left uni BTW?

Inkblinkandmustard Fri 12-Jul-13 22:48:48

You got a same day appointment for a temporary resident, dealt with quickly and you're not happy! YABU. You have no idea who else might be coming in, and the GP probably has a paperwork mountain waiting also

apostropheuse Fri 12-Jul-13 22:52:30

YABU The emergency appointment was for the cellulitis issue, which can be a serious emergency and needs to be attended to urgently. The acne is is routine condition that she can consult her own doctor about.

Emergency appointments would run over time if patients all had just another little thing to mention to the doctor. That's not the purpose of the appointment.

You are also being unreasonable going in to the doctor's surgery with your adult daughter, and even more so for telling the doctor what you wanted prescribed.

ImagineJL Fri 12-Jul-13 22:52:37

YABU.

It's quite possible there wasn't actually an appointment slot at all, and your DD was added on the end.

Also, prescribing drugs is not like turning on a tap. It requires thought, considering medical history, others medication, allergies, sometimes blood test monitoring - all of this takes time, and is especially difficult with temporary residents who are not known to the GP.

Mummydoctor Fri 12-Jul-13 22:56:13

This sounds like some of the c

ILoveDolly Fri 12-Jul-13 22:56:14

As per other posts, GPs have loads to do besides surgeries, work very long days, see all kinds of really sick patients they probably could do with having extra time to talk to..... and you're surprised she was arsey. Really your daughter is old enough to be managing her own health at her own drs, I would add.

Montybojangles Fri 12-Jul-13 22:56:47

Appointments

The length of a GP appointment is 10 minutes, a nurse appointment 15 minutes and a HCA appointment 10 minutes. If you have several issues to discuss, please book a double appointment. If you cannot attend, please cancel as soon as possible so that we can allocate the appointment to someone else. Urgent cases will be seen as soon as possible. Please be considerate if someone else needs to be given priority.

Seeing the Doctor

Patients may see the doctor of their choice subject to availability. This may sometimes require you to travel to the other surgery in order to be seen sooner. On occasions a fully qualified and experienced locum GP may be in attendance.

 For illnesses that are not life threatening you should arrange a routine appointment. These appointments with the GP are longer than an 'on the day emergency appointment' and can be booked in advance.  They are normally available within a few days of you calling and are the preferred way of getting to see a doctor, as they are able to spend more time with you. 

Urgent Appointments

  This is for a 5 minute appointment with a doctor and they can only deal with only one problem These appointments will be at the end of the doctor’s surgeries and there may be a longer wait than usual.  

We respectfully ask that you consider carefully whether your problem is urgent.

Mummydoctor Fri 12-Jul-13 22:59:24

Sorry! Some of the consultations I have had during busy on call days. What people sometimes don't see are all the other 'urgent' things waiting to be dealt with - the urgent blood result which means arranging a hospital admission, the nurse wanting an ECG reviewed, late home visit etc etc.

Most GPs are drowning in the workload currently being shifted into primary care and ever increasing demand. Rant over.

bimbabirba Fri 12-Jul-13 23:02:39

OP have you considered that perhaps she said no because she would have had to do a full consultation before prescribing what you asked? If the medicine you wanted was not on repeat then it wasn't as straight forward or quick as you seem to make out.

Pobblewhohasnotoes Fri 12-Jul-13 23:02:49

Yabu. An emergency appointment for a temporary patient is not for a regular prescription that should have been sorted out already.

fabergeegg Fri 12-Jul-13 23:12:00

Oh come on. How hard is it to give a repeat prescription? And GPs everywhere tend to be rubbish.

Also, the one problem one appointment is utterly ridiculous. Has medicine gone mad? When did GPs get to be so entitled? Surely they go through training in order to consider symptoms in context? How is the patient supposed to know how many 'problems' they have?

Absurd.

ImagineJL Fri 12-Jul-13 23:21:26

Fabergeegg it is impossible to operate any other way. If it was a total take-as-long-as-you-like "free for all", you could very easily get a situation in which the few patients booked in before you would take half an hour each (having saved up several problems to talk about), and you could end up waiting 2-3 hours.

It's nothing to do with being entitled. It's time management. I'd be perfectly happy to spend the entire day sorting out one patient - after all, I'm there all day anyway, makes no odds to me what I'm doing. But the other 1999 patients on my list might get a bit fed up with that system!

ImagineJL Fri 12-Jul-13 23:24:57

And your question " how hard is it to give a repeat prescription" demonstrates your medical ignorance. Are you aware of drug interactions? Allergies? Contraindications?

Anyway I'm not going to say any more because GP bashing just winds me up.

bimbabirba Fri 12-Jul-13 23:29:05

One problem one appointment doesn't men you shouldn't describe your symptoms in context. It means you can't go in for a sore throat and then mention you have acne.
Doh!

OllyPurrrs Fri 12-Jul-13 23:45:43

ilovesunflowers why correct her spelling?? confused

WetDog Sat 13-Jul-13 00:20:27

My old drs surgery used to clearly state on a laminated sheet you were given when you arrived for an emergency appointment that an emergency appointment was for emergencies only. Not for routine problems or repeat prescription renewals.

YABVVU and you sound like you were very rude to the GP.

Abra1d Sat 13-Jul-13 00:23:44

She doesn't say anywhere that she was rude to the GP.

DoJo Sat 13-Jul-13 00:40:06

YABU - if you need regular medication then a repeat prescription should be sought in good time to cover you from when you previous prescription runs out, so you shouldn't need to go to your GP at all, let alone ask during an emergency appointment. If your daughter didn't consider it pressing enough to get from her own GP at university then why should the GP add to her workload by dealing with it during an emergency appointment?

kali110 Sat 13-Jul-13 00:50:07

I tend to sometimes have few issues wheni go for an app never heard of one problem one app, however at my docs its extremely hard to get an app in next three weeks anyway and thats if you are lucky! However emergency apps should be used for just that, emergencies. Doc isnt going to be able to provide things like that if shes a temp patient, the docs isnt going to have records off what your dd has been provided at uni. For all the doc knows a doc at ur dds uni could have refused to give that particular medication to your dd, how would this doc know?

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs Sat 13-Jul-13 00:50:10

I think YABU. I'm not a GP but a vet. These "while I'm here" issues might not seem to be a big deal to you, but when every single client adds a "could you just...while I'm here" on, it realy affects the day. Added to that the fact that she is not your GP's patient- the Gp is permitted to give emergency treatment, but ongoing treatment should be prescribed by the doctor who is in charge of her care (and has all her notes/ records/ info)

It's not fair to ask the Gp to do this just because it is convenient for you- without the proper records the GP could leave herself open to all sorts of professional misconduct issues. I wouldn't be happy to prescribe treatment for a dog that wasn't officialy "under my care" so I can totally understand why a GP wouldn't for a human!

softlysoftly Sat 13-Jul-13 00:55:40

Was the gp Asian?

sagfold Sat 13-Jul-13 01:01:26

She's only human. Sounds like she was at the end of her tether, when people are unreasonable or complain about their day like that you always have to wpnder what else is going on with them. Maybe heat was getting to her too.

justanuthermanicmumsday Sat 13-Jul-13 01:01:36

i didn't know gp appointment was for 1 ailment only. That is such a stupid rule. Not only does it waste everyone's time having to rebook the gp and go on again, when it could have been dealt with in one go? Such a lack of efficiency. Is it the same in scotland? I have seen no notice stating only 1 ailment per appointment, please do not present more than, one symptom, its madness!

my surgery wouldn't give me an emergency appointment they changed to walk in style, which is silly, fr very infirm patients, screaming toddlers and those who are vey ill. I was very ill i walked in had to wait til surgery nearly came to an end and by then i was shivering but had a soaring temp and baby with me. One look at me gp sent me to hospital I'm lucky to be alive. This one rule would have meant i was dead.

justanuthermanicmumsday Sat 13-Jul-13 01:03:17

As for notes they're easy to pull up within 1 minute on the computer system. It's not like when i was younger when they used paper files and secretaries to pass them over.

fabergeegg Sat 13-Jul-13 01:11:27

Well I can see that the GP was reasonable not to want to deal with the acne issue. But the OP doesn't sound as if she was being rude. It was a simple request; the GP had only to say 'sorry but no'. Don't be daft. But it does sound like the GP is suffering from NHSitis, in which any concept of the patient as an adult worthy of respect and courtesy has gone out the window. From what the OP described, she sounded more like a bossy teacher giving off to a pupil who has forgotten her homework.

Regarding one problem per appointment - still think it's utterly ridiculous! It may sound obvious that acne isn't related to a sore throat. That's a stand-out example though and not representative of where many of us are at. GPs are trained to diagnosis. Patients bring multiple symptoms in one body - the professional's job is to sort out what belongs where. If a GP decided he/she had identified one problem and was unable to make a decision about treatment for possible other problems, then that would be halfway reasonable (although not particularly, given how horrendously difficult it can be for an older/disabled/parent to get and attend an appointment). But to expect all patients to industriously describe their sore throat while keeping their nausea and rash and muscle weakness for another day - you have got to be joking. The NHS isn't working and this kind of thing is a brilliant example of why that is - and why many doctors would be out of a job if they were expected to actually perform what they're trained to do.

justanuthermanicmumsday Sat 13-Jul-13 01:12:04

i do feel sorry for the gp concerned sounds like she had a hard day, but not all GPS are great either. I had an emergency appointment before i went back to scotland. Rather than doing something about my high temp she told me to use paracetamol even though i said i had used it and ibuprofen for 1 week and had never felt So bad in my life. Only when I went back home to scotland did my gp quickly send me to the hospital. lets face it there are incompetent docs out there too. In this posters case i think she was a good gp, but had to follow the bureaucratic nh rules, to get her work completed.

Btw i always find duty docs dismissive because its unlikely they'll see you again they work across surgeries. i always wait it out for an hour to get a regular gp I'm familiar with, or go Walk in or a&e. i know i won't wait next time I'm ill badly its a&e

fabergeegg Sat 13-Jul-13 01:12:33

trained to diagnose, rather smile

ilovesooty Sat 13-Jul-13 01:52:28

You got an emergency appointment and the emergency was dealt with. I don't see a problem. And your daughter should be capable of dealing with her own non emergency medication without your input.

Is it health professionals bashing time just now?

timidviper Sat 13-Jul-13 02:09:40

Just for info to the person who said records can be pulled up in 1 minute. No they can't unless the patient is registered at that surgery. The DD is registered at uni, so her notes would not be accessible to the GP meaning any consultation would be "done blind".

kali110 Sat 13-Jul-13 02:22:36

Very true timid what i was trying to say. When i went to uni i didnt know my old gp details and when i came home i had no clue what their details were either ( as id had to change twice due to the one surgery suddenly closing down with no warning) so my old docs had no idea some of the medication that i had had prescribed.

FirstStopCafe Sat 13-Jul-13 03:13:54

I can understand both sides of this. I always feel as though I'm wasting the GP's time when I need an appointment to get a repeat prescription of something. They usually are very quick so I can see why tagging it on the end of another appointment seems to make sense. Overall I think it would save nhs time.

However I also can see the point of view of the gp. Particularly as your daughter was a temporary patient. I don't think the way she handled it sounds particularly professional though. She shouldn't be moaning to patients about how long she's been there.

Hope your dd is feeling better

toomanyfionas Sat 13-Jul-13 04:23:48

Makes me glad I don't live in the UK. I often try to serve up family ailments in a batch and it's never a problem. And we always get same day appointments.

Gemd81 Sat 13-Jul-13 04:40:16

No YANBU sometimes they forget just cos its nhs they're still a service and we pay their wages most of them so OTT god complexes!

VixZenFenchell Sat 13-Jul-13 05:39:17

I was going to write a reasoned reply.

But they've been written and ignored already.

One problem one consult is standard. One problem may present with multiple symptoms so all symptoms should be discussed. It's up to the GP to decide what is relevant to the most immediate problem and what can be left for discussion at another time.

I doubt any of the "we pay your wages""lazy crap GP""earn more than 100k for sitting on your arse all day" brigade will take any notice of me either.

The GP in this case was absolutely correct not to prescribe routine medication as part of a emergency appointment, that needs to be done with ongoing follow up for side effects which should be done by her permanent GP.

Freudianslap Sat 13-Jul-13 06:05:32

'most of them so OTT god complexes' !!!'

Yes dear.... What utter nonsense.

Montybojangles Sat 13-Jul-13 06:15:45

It's very simple, if you want to discuss more than one problem you book a double appointment. This is nothing new, gp surgeries have always advised people to do this.

This was an emergency appointment and was for a non registered patient. Emergency appointments are for the emergency problem only.

The ultimate aim will be that health electronic record systems will be accessible by every nhs health provider. Currently however, it is generally only your specific gp that can access your gp records, some areas have limited sharing locally but this is hit and miss, partly because at the beginning different gps/ hospitals/ community trusts bought different computer systems.

Ged81 you do not pay her wages. The NHS pays her wages. As she pays tax too are we to say she is self employed??

softlysoftly ????

AngryGnome Sat 13-Jul-13 06:48:52

Surely it's obvious that it isnt't 'one appointment, one symptom' but rather one health issue per appointment. So it would be fine to go to gp and say you have, eg sickness, dizziness, rash and expect them to try and diagnose and prescribe treatment. It would not be reasonable after that to say, 'oh and whilst I'm here can I get another prescription for my anti-depressants' for example, as that would require a whole new consultation.

Some GPs are rude, yes. In the same way some teachers are rude, some cashiers are rude etc. If you dont rate a doctor, ask to see a different GP when you book.

And softlysiftly - not sure why the ethnicity of the gp is of any relevance unless of course you are a racist bigot

SarahBumBarer Sat 13-Jul-13 06:57:02

The GP system in the UK is the WORST thing about the NHS. They're a bunch of officious jobsworth gate-keepers who have been dragged kicking, screaming and protesting to the stage they are at now by various govts who have had to FORCE them to offer reasonable opening hours etc. The UK system of having to register with a single surgey etc is rubbish and does not work at all well in the case of Uni students etc. GP's have however done an AMAZING job of peddling a crap service and getting the public to adhere to it /promote it as evidenced by all the "it's the system so follow it" comments on here.

It's a second class crap system and they get away with it because 90pc of Brits can't bear to have anything about the NHS criticised.

YANBU OP!

BusterKeaton Sat 13-Jul-13 07:05:45

SarahBum...

Out of genuine curiosity, in what country or countries have you experienced a superior GP system and how did it differ from the UK system.

I agree that the case of the Uni students is troublesome. My kids did Oxford terms, so they were at home more weeks than they were at Uni; just didn't make sense.

YABU

Say everyone booked one appointment and went in and had 2 or 6 different things that they wanted to consider???

SarahBumBarer Sat 13-Jul-13 07:29:23

Australia. Chose which doc you see. See medicare doc and pay nothing or chose a more expensive doc and pay the difference between their cost and medicare. Nothing like the issues getting an appt in the uk and AND discuss as many problems as you want. If they gave you the attitude that UK GP's do you just would not go back to that Doc and their earnings would plummet.

Also my daughter is currently in hospital in Italy. Here with children you just take them direct to children's hospital no GP nonsense and then specialists are right there when you need them. Again - no "one issue" crap.

toomanyfionas Sat 13-Jul-13 07:39:56

madame well that's we do and it's not a problem.

Nagoo Sat 13-Jul-13 07:41:58

Yabu.

You got an emergency appt, she dealt with that problem.

The gp could have done with the 'no is a complete sentence' advice though. There was no need for her to go on about how tired she was, she should have just told you 'no'.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sat 13-Jul-13 07:48:26

I know no one on this thread is going to change their mind, but for any GPs reading, I just wanted to say that generally I have found GPs great. They work massively hard and I've always had good service. I have utmost respect for the role.

I agree that there needs to be a system to assist people like uni students and others who split the year between two locations. Maybe that will be easier to achieve with electronic records easily accessible in the future.

softlysoftly Sat 13-Jul-13 07:49:09

Ha no sorry dashed that off half asleep them failed to return, am married to a Bengali!

The reason I ask is my mild mannered gp DSIL puts up with all manner of bollocks all year long and works ridiculously long hours.

It is however now Ramadan on the hottest longest time of the year. With no food or water her bullshit tolerance has fallen through the floor wondered if you had met her grin

In all seriousness YANBU to not expect her to be grumpy but your statement of "a 4hr shift" and you adding stuff rather than your adult daughter hints that you may have been a little pushy.

SarahBumBarer Sat 13-Jul-13 07:55:41

Fionas - it's amazing how the rest of the world copes with what Britain deems "impossible" and has better standards (education/healthcare/life expectancy).

Mummydoctor Sat 13-Jul-13 07:56:08

Having worked for a while in Australia, I experienced consultant paediatricians ordering quite unnecessary tests for their private patients because they got paid extra for them. Never mind the extra radiation to the children or whether it was clinically indicated.
Also speaking to friends who work their currently, the system is easier for doctors because they can bill for the problems the patient comes on with. GP funding in the uk is very very different. If the public want an improved system in the uk, primary care needs more funding. We can not deliver more and more services over increasing hours with no investment.
Most GPs care alot about the care they provide and the majority of patients with genuine needs have those needs met, but there is room for improvement of course. I cannot do anymore than I already do in my 'part time hours' that being 32hrs over 2.5 days.

Not a GP but I do work in NHS with booked appointment slots. I sometimes have Emergency patients booked in that I know nothing about apart from their name and address.

So they come in, and I need to do a history.
Check circulation and sensation (most of our patients are diabetic)
Treat the emergency.
Arrange antibiotics if needed
Arrange another appointment

In 20 minutes.

Sometimes we have emergencies turning up late if they have to go to another clinic site and don't allow enough time to find out where they are going.
And once they are through the door they think time stops and they have unlimited time.

Oh and don't get me started on the ones who turn up for a routine appointment and want an insole made.
Or Nail Surgery and want their other nails cut too.
confused

So sukysue I guess your GP could have WORDED it better but YABU.

McGeeDiNozzo Sat 13-Jul-13 08:07:04

1) One visit, one problem is sensible. If you fill 20 minutes talking to your doctor about the 7 health issues you've left until now to talk about, they are not going to be able to evaluate your problems to the best of their abilities. (You don't get this problem in the US as time doesn't tend to be rationed there, but there, if you hit them with all of that during your visit, they will just charge you more. Charges for primary care office visits are partly based on how complex the doctor judges your health issues to be).

2) An emergency doctor is not your regular doctor and is not well-informed about your, or your relatives', day-to-day health issues. You go to see emergency doctors because of specific problems, not because of ongoing chronic conditions (unless there is a flare-up). So if you demand your regular acne medication, the emergency doctor, not knowing the history of that particular complaint, doesn't know whether that demand is justified or not. Your GP would give it to you without a second thought.

3) Doctors don't appreciate being told what to prescribe! I went to the doctor this week to try to get some fluconazole for what I thought was a fungal infection I'd picked up after a course of antibiotics. It turned out that I didn't have a fungal infection at all. I got it wrong. And, although I'm not a doctor, I've got a fair chunk of medical experience.

arethereanyleftatall Sat 13-Jul-13 08:09:52

aaarrrggghhh to the posters who cannot grasp that obviously a doctor can only deal with one problem in one booked appt. Otherwise how on earth could one time manage.
I'm sure these posters would be first to complain if they kept waiting whilst the patient in front of them kept saying 'and another thing...'

LondonMan Sat 13-Jul-13 08:12:37

It's not GPs fault, but what this thread highlights is that the NHS provides a crap service, from a patient perspective. Anyone who has experience of living abroad is used to much better.

By some Stalinist measure of overall efficiency, the NHS may well be better. From a patients perspective, you are just raw-material for a machine that has no respect for you, your needs or your time.

In another similar thread I think it was claimed that GPs only earn £10 for each extra appointment. In a similar thread on a different forum someone commented in passing that patients should pay a "token" £20-£30 per appointment, in order to discourage time-wasters. (I suppose that like me they were assuming a GP appointment could and should cost £50-£100 in total, with the level of service one would expect at that cost.) If what many (I accept not all) people regard as a "token" amount is two or three times what GPs actually get, it explains why we have a system that has no chance of satisfying many of its customers. It wouldn't be hard to devise a system where half of all appointments were free, and half paid for, with the paid-for ones being sold as being at more convenient times for working people. The revenue raised could be enough to eventually double the number of available GP appointment-minutes.

toomanyfionas Sat 13-Jul-13 08:18:51

sarah I know. Amazingly awful system yet they just accept it.

arethereanyleftatall Sat 13-Jul-13 08:27:08

Lol to the none UK posters saying our system is crap. I think it's absolutely brilliant. The only people who don't are the very entitled types who are never happy.

Whothefuckfarted Sat 13-Jul-13 08:36:57

However busy they are GP's should still be professional and not arsey/rude to patients. They're only human though after all...

Sleep404 Sat 13-Jul-13 08:42:07

Yanbu. It doesn't matter how crap the GPs day has been. She is offering a service (which you have paid for) and she earns a wage. What kind of organisation would approve of its service provider having a rant at the customer. A simple I'm afraid I can't do that, you'll need to book a normal appointment would have been fine.
I have experienced great and very poor service at the same surgery. One of the Drs had a right go at me once for coming into the surgery to book an emergency appointment for my dd instead of calling first. I had just picked her up from nursery which was on the next street and thought driving home to ring in would mean we ended up in A&E given the late hour. I was prepared to wait but the GP thought this was unreasonable and not following procedure. I felt like a kid being told off, but was extremely apologetic and polite despite thinking, what an arse, because I was in a position where he was responsible for my baby's health.

NightFallsFast Sat 13-Jul-13 08:43:05

Londonman GPs don't earn anything extra per appointment. A GP surgery has Partners who take drawings from the business rather than a salary. GP pracices are paid various amounts by the government, but the basic sum is about £70 per patient per year. This is is the same, however many appointments the patient needs, which I think is excellent value. It also means it's of no advantage to the GP to only see one problem per appointment except that it means the problems can be treated safely and correctly and the other patients or jobs aren't kept waiting.

GP surgeries are also paid extra for things like flu jabs and for reaching targets in monitoring and treating chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sat 13-Jul-13 08:54:14

How many of the posters who think overseas systems are better have experienced being dirt poor in those countries?

For me, I will take the problems of the NHS over worrying that I don't have insurance or can't afford the GP.

Oh, or we could have much, much, much higher taxes.

Abra1d Sat 13-Jul-13 09:10:55

'Maybe that will be easier to achieve with electronic records easily accessible in the future.'

The new electronic record-storing seems to have been a total waste of time, with doctors unsure of how to access blood test results, etc.

We had to wait three weeks for results we knew had been posted on the computer (knew it because the lady who did the sweat test at the hospital told me when she'd done it) to be made known to us because the consultant didn't know how to call them up. Three weeks--waiting to hear whether our son had CF: a very serious disease. In the end, my husband had to ask our GP surgery to fax (!) the results they seemed able to pull up to the consultant, who was just gazing at his screen in our appointment, saying, 'I just can't see them anywhere'.

In a similar vein, I have been waiting four weeks now to learn whether the biopsy taken in my colonoscopy is anything to worry about. This, in a family with so much colon cancer I had genetic counselling. I know my biopsy results have been interpreted by someone in the system but my GP doesn't seem able to find that person.

Where possible I now ask for anything that might be of any interest to anyone to be printed off and given to me so that I can take it from appointment to appointment myself.

littlecrocodile Sat 13-Jul-13 09:21:36

I have a chronic condition and so unfortunately see a lot of GP surgerys. I've also lived and experienced the healthcare systems in a number of different countries and really have no complaints about the NHS in comparison.

But back to the OP, YABU - an emergency appointment is just that, to deal with an urgent problem. It's not to deal with routine issues being cared for by another surgery or regular medication which should have been arranged in advance. It's really not a quick task for a GP seeing a temporary resident, they're very unlikely to have access to records unless you're under the same practice and so can't (responsibly) just prescribe what you ask for without a full consultation.

LessMissAbs Sat 13-Jul-13 09:30:16

Not really suitable for an emergency appointment but I can see how your daughter found herself in this position. in the UK, travelling away from home and needing to see a doctor seems to cause great problems. In these days, patients notes should be easily accesible electronically, what does it matter where the patient lives in the UK?

On the same subject, what is the point in changing your go hen you move a few miles? Why do these rules exist? If you are working away from home or on holiday for two weeks, its completely impractical to register as a temporary resident wherever you go.

It would probably be simpler to fly to France and pay a small fee to see a documents or there.

BookFairy Sat 13-Jul-13 09:47:39

I can see where the OP is coming from: I have a long term condition and have moved about for uni/work. It can be a total arse getting an appointment at some surgeries. Knowing you will have to spend another morning redialing and redialing over and over, only to be told there are no appointments left, means that you grab any appointment they offer, and try to get repeat prescriptions done too.

TarkaTheOtter Sat 13-Jul-13 09:59:57

I think generally YABU.

But it doesn't really make sense for students to be "temporary" patients over the summer. She's probably back until October now, can she really only access emergency GP cover all that time without travelling back to uni for a routine appt?

SarahBumBarer Sat 13-Jul-13 10:53:10

I AM a UK person! I just happen to have been lucky enough to have experienced better healthcare elsewhere. No doubt both I and the OECD rankings are incorrect though and the Brits who have never experienced healthcare elsewhere but have a gut "our system must be best because its British" reaction know best.

Meid Sat 13-Jul-13 11:00:24

YABU to have asked for the 2nd prescription in an emergency appointment.

But I agree with you, the doctor was being arsey to have a rant about it rather than politely decline.

SarahBumBarer Sat 13-Jul-13 11:01:01

And whatever I think about the NHS I am looking forward to coming home again (being in a foreign hospital away from friends and family is no fun) but I am genuinely nervous about my child's care being transferred to the nhs. Italian docs diagnosed a congenital heart condition in my daughter which uk docs failed to spot in days of testing/x-rays etc (if you want to talk about unnecessary tests) and one of the main clues they had was the medication used by the nhs.

YABU

kali110 Sat 13-Jul-13 11:49:00

There are allways going to be good and bad. I think op was bu for the acne medicine as for reasons mentioned before but think gp could have been nice. Dcsnny me only have 10mins for each app. I remember my dad seeing gp, he never went to the doc bt he was in so much pain. Doc jus told him he'd pulled a muscle and to go home. Me and my mom were so mad as we knew it was seriously. We booked an emergency app with my doc. She told h to cancel goin om hol the next day and to go hosp instead. He had three cracked ribs and hole in his lung. Then found he had terminal cancer. This doc was bad. He didnt even listen to his chest. My doc however was great. Allways ringing up to checkmon him, day he passed she came over just to check. She waa by far the greatest doc ever.

bamboostalks Sat 13-Jul-13 12:00:22

doing home visits for hours That is truly laughable. My cousin is a business manager for 10 practices. None of the permies do any home visits. They are outsourced to private providers. The GPs have a truly fantastic deal which has improved beyond their wildest dreams in the last 10 years both in terms of pay and conditions. The experienced GPs are on at least £80 for a 30 hour week and the profit sharing GPs twice that. FACT. So yes they should show a bit of decency and prescribe an antibiotic without a load of moaning. Seriously, they are very privileged indeed ( top end of our society) and with that goes responsibility.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Sat 13-Jul-13 12:05:25

Why does the fact a GP earns oodles (If they do, I have no idea) mean they are selfish if they don't go above and beyond what their job requires? confused Do they need a martyr tattoo as well to prove they are 'worthy' of being a doctor?

The OP asked GP to do something above and beyond for free. Does it matter why? That alone makes OP BU.

Wages shouldn't come into it, the OP's GP was not paid to do what she was asking, so yes SWBU.

Everything else is politics (and economics?) IMO, and a different conversation.

Sidge Sat 13-Jul-13 12:57:42

bamboostalks that certainly isn't the case in our area. GPs do home visits for their own patients. One of the GPs I work for did 5 yesterday between her morning and afternoon surgeries.

And some posters seem to think that prescribing is just about printing and signing that piece of green paper. There's more to it than that.

diddl Sat 13-Jul-13 13:19:01

I don't think it's one illness per appointment, is it?

More that this was an emergency appointment & a repeat prescription would be better dealt with by her regular GP.

As far as I'm concerned, when I have a regular GP appointment, I can talk to them about whatever ailments I want!

Sounds unprofessional to moan about her day, though!

diddl Sat 13-Jul-13 13:21:31

With OPs daughter's regular prescription-could she not have got enough to cover her time back with the OP?

OneHandFlapping Sat 13-Jul-13 13:26:12

So... how do university student - who are home half the time anyway, get non- emergency appointments and medication?

Spickle Sat 13-Jul-13 13:48:06

OneHandFlapping, I am wondering the same.

My DD had to go and see our regular GP at Easter and I was shocked to discover she was no longer a patient there. I really had no idea that the Doctors she was registered with at Uni, meant that she couldn't see her GP at home unless it was an emergency. I would have thought it would be better for uni students to be temporarily registered near their studies, rather than permanently moved from the home surgery to another. Tbh, my DD has been home for longer than she was away. Though I do understand that if she needed a "home" visit, the GP doesn't want to travel for hours to get to her!

Wabbitty Sat 13-Jul-13 13:51:29

OneHandFlapping, they register as a temporary patient and book a normal appointment.

For all those wanting a centralised computer system try googling NHS white elephant. The government (Labour) wasted millions of pounds on that alone.

Most doctors do have a one illness, one appointment system

ImagineJL Sat 13-Jul-13 13:57:45

Bamboo I'm intrigued at the source of your data. I work 38 hours per week and I earn 45k. We are a fairly high earning practice in an average market town.

OneHandFlapping Sat 13-Jul-13 14:12:30

Wabbity, he did that. And also got the arsey GP (take 2 paracetamol and come back in 2 months if the lump's still there).

bamboostalks Sat 13-Jul-13 14:21:03

East London Tower Hamlets/ Southwark

Mrsmorton Sat 13-Jul-13 17:04:12

The OP is the entitled one here. I do a dental ooh clinic on Sundays and every week someone who has had a problem for months will bring their child in who has an acute problem like swelling and say "oh, could you look at my broken tooth while I'm here?"
No
Here's a list of dentists who are taking on patients. Take care, goodbye.

Why could dd not see her own gp for her acne tablets? And why can she not arrange her own medical care...?

KobayashiMaru Sat 13-Jul-13 17:10:24

You're all mad. How is a sensible use of time to take another appt, another wait, another phone call, all for a simple prescription that would have taken a minute? not to mention the unprofessionalism of the dr of whinging to a patient about her terrible day.
no wonder the nhs is such an inefficient mess if this is the way they carry on, and you all agree with it.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sat 13-Jul-13 17:15:46

Bamboo - that may be the case in your area, but it isn't the case nationwide www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9567689/More-than-700-GPs-earned-200000-despite-overall-drop-in-salaries-figures.html. No GP I know (know a few) would be anything less than normal full time hours either - 30 must be very specific to your group of practices.

I hate this mentality that if you have a well paid job, you aren't ever allowed to set any boundaries around it. Boundaries which, incidentally, are for the benefit of parents overall.

There are obviously flaws in the NHS system- difficulty dealing with those who live in a number of locations or move frequently being one of them.

But the answer isn't to allow people to store up all their routine health problems and cover them in emergency appointments. All the DD had to do was make another appointment and go back at an appropriate time.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sat 13-Jul-13 17:19:13

Kobayashi - How do you know it would have taken 'a minute'? You don't. You are assuming you just write out the prescription. The GP didn't have access to the health records, so would have had to take a full history, discuss contra indications, discuss instructions for taking the medication. It would essentially be as if prescribing for the first time. It wasn't just 'filling out a repeat' .

It would be negligent to just 'take a minute' and write it out in this situation. Imagine the enormous consequences if the mother had got the name of the medication wrong, or the doctor didn't know some detail of the daughter's medical condition (Just, off the top of my head, what if the daughter had other new medication or was pregnant) that should have impcated on treatment. There would rightly be an outcry that she'd just written it out.

No, she shouldn't have moaned. But that's the only bit that was out of line.

KobayashiMaru Sat 13-Jul-13 17:39:04

Because she did do it, after the moaning, and it only took her a minute. So yes, I do know.She didn't do any of that, so are you saying the dr is negligent?

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sat 13-Jul-13 17:49:14

No she didn't, based on the OP.

Delayingtactic Sat 13-Jul-13 17:49:43

Um no in the OP she states that she didn't give it to her just explained why it wasn't reasonable to do so.

KobayashiMaru Sat 13-Jul-13 17:52:04

the second message says " it literally took her 1 min to do it" whch to to me suggests she gave the prescription.

SarahBumBarer Sat 13-Jul-13 18:18:04

Responding to an earlier point - we are not paying anything for DD's care in Italy because we pay exactly what an Italian would pay - ie zero. Again the Uk has this myth that we are the only country with good social health care. We base this on the fact that the US healthcare system is about the only one most Brits know anything about and conveniently for our national superiority complex it is about the only system in the developed world that is worse than hours. Most first world countries have Universal health care, many tax funded with similar or lower tax rates to our own (eg Italy) or part tax/part employer insurance funded and still maintain higher living standards/lower taxes (eg Australia). It is seen as practically traitorous to criticise the NHs but it SHOULD and COULD do better - especially the GPs. What's more we should demand it. Free at the point of delivery is NOT free!

expatinscotland Sat 13-Jul-13 18:25:17

YABU.

Wabbitty Sat 13-Jul-13 18:31:26

Yes KoboyashiMaru - antibiotics for the cellulitis and after a consultation.

LIZS Sat 13-Jul-13 18:34:44

yabvu , and inappropriate. An emergency appointment is just that , a one off for something which cannot wait. Did your dd even ask you to discuss her acne ? Has she had that medication before (and therefore would have a tear off slip for repeats) and as she is presumably over 18 she may well have had other medications, or reactions to, which she may need to notify a gp of first, but perhaps not in front of you .

ImagineJL Sat 13-Jul-13 19:02:12

I try not to deal with multiple add-on "while I'm here Dr" problems if I can, for one simple reason.

If I spend longer than the allotted time with a patient, the next patient has to wait. If they too have several problems, the third patient waits even longer, and so on. By the end of the session I can be running an hour late, and no one is happy then.

How does that make me entitled, jobs-worth and lazy, as some have suggested?

Obviously there are times when the 4th problem is the most serious and has to be addressed there and then, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

I would be interested to hear any suggestions for a way the system could be run enabling patients to have as long as they want, without inconveniencing subsequent patients. We are always reviewing our appointment system in response to suggestions and satisfaction questionnaires, so I'd be very happy to hear any ideas.

KobayashiMaru Sat 13-Jul-13 20:13:50

not how I read it, but only OP can tell us.

piprabbit Sat 13-Jul-13 20:19:48

At our surgery Emergency appointments are for when you can't wait for a standard booking (usually two weeks) - but you can't specify who you see.

Standard appointments are 5 mins long and are for one issue only. We are advised to book a double appointment if we have more to discuss.

Wabbitty Sat 13-Jul-13 20:35:40

KobayashiMaru read it again. The OP says "when we went in we were given the antibiotics straightaway within about 1 minutes consultation". The OP then goes on to say that whilst they were there she then asked for the gel (Duac) for the acne. Can't be much clearer than that.

KobayashiMaru Sat 13-Jul-13 20:40:58

Read the second post, not the first. Thats the one I'm talking about. It certainly reads like the 2nd prescription was given.

Notyourdaughtersnickname Sat 13-Jul-13 21:04:30

Sorry OP but YABU,

An emergency appointment is for emergencies. Not to "top-up" regular medication.

It gets very wearing to have a long list of so-called "emergencies" only to find you're prescribing hayfever medicines and cough mixture for most of the day. Coughs, colds, hayfever, acne, not really an emergency.

SarahBumBarer Sun 14-Jul-13 08:24:10

At most surgeries "emergency" appts are NOT for emergencies. For "emergencies" you go to A&E. The clue is in the "E"

Emergency GP appts (not many GP's do anything with genuine emeregencies otrher rhan call an ambulance or send you off to A&E) are simply standard appts but given out on the day for people who can't wait the ridiculous length of time necessary for a standard appt. So if you have a niggling back pain that you've put up with for a few months and finally decide to see about it you wait for a standard appt; if otoh you wake up one day with a sudden acute symptom you would call and get an on the day (so called emergency) appt. But let's be hones - we're not usually talking life or death situations here. And students people away from home have no option but to get emeegency/temp resident appts. It is the system which is crap.

As for how to improve it? I don't know - I only see front of house. As a start stop being so defensive, Send someone to one of the countries where it does work better, watch and learn!

MamaChubbyLegs Sun 14-Jul-13 08:55:33

YANBU to be deflated by her attitude. She was unprofessional and rude, which is unnecessary.
YANBU to be cheeky and ask for a prescription.
YABU to expect her to do it or assume what kind of shift she had had.

She WNBU to refuse.
She WBU to handle the situation so unprofessionally.

I would not even dream of moaning to a patient or relative about my day.

KobayashiMaru Sun 14-Jul-13 21:56:16

Emergency appts are just regular appts in a totally fucked up system that sees people waiting a month for a regular appt. It;s all a huge mess, you're just so used to it you can't tell anymore.
I'm not in the uk. I can call my drs at 9am and have a 90% chance of a same day appt, if not, then the day after for sure. I can get 10 different things done if I like. Thats how it should be.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 22:00:11

I am in the UK. I can call my doctors at 9am and have a 90% chance of a same day appt, if not the day after. The only difference is that I have to book a double if I have lots of things to talk about.

Yes, there are issues in some areas of the UK, but don't assume it's the same everywhere. The situation I described has applied with the last 4 practices I have been registered with - i.e. my whole adult life.

KobayashiMaru Sun 14-Jul-13 22:02:04

Lucky you. It doesn't seem that way for most people.

AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom Sun 14-Jul-13 22:05:29

Maybe not, but unless we're basing it on stats not anecdotes, I have no idea whose experience is more common. could be your version or mine. I was just saying don't assume what's normal based on stories, because my assumption of normal on that basis would be the polar opposite.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 14-Jul-13 22:10:21

Yabu (sorry)

I do feel for your daughter though. I had the exact same thing last year,only I left it quite some time before going to the Dr's (I'm stupid) and they most certainly did fit me in when there was no real slot. They definitely were not interested in anything other than the cellulitis I'd been incubating for almost 2 weeks. Zero interest whatsoever. I don't think they would have even entertained speaking with me about anything else.

I hope your daughter feels better soon.

cory Sun 14-Jul-13 23:20:45

LondonMan Sat 13-Jul-13 08:12:37
"It's not GPs fault, but what this thread highlights is that the NHS provides a crap service, from a patient perspective. Anyone who has experience of living abroad is used to much better."

Wouldn't that depend on where you lived? Or is Abroad one homogenous country with one perfectly working system?

Fwiw I have experienced very good care in Sweden- and absolutely crap care, the latter including a GP who claimed to be unable to tell me when chickenpox ceases to be contagious. (In the end, I had to dictate the letter she wrote to the insurance company as she was so clueless.)

I spoke to a relative in Canada the other day about a medical problem we share: she told me she had had to fight really hard to find a doctor prepared to use a less invasive method (a simple pessary) than operation. Of course the doctor would have been paid more for the operation which is why he was so dismissive of the non invasive treatment. In the end, she managed to get hold of another doctor.

gasman Mon 15-Jul-13 00:08:58

This thread has made me really cross.

The appropriate thing for the university aged daughter to do would have been to arrange an appropriate supply of anti-acne drugs prior to leaving university to go home for the summer. Asking any GP to prescribe routine medication without access to your medical records is putting them in a difficult position. To do that in an emergency TR slot is really, rude.

WRT healthcare in other countries I am fascinated at how Australia is being touted as amazing: friends I have who GP out there feel the system is really unsafe as people can visit several GPs and thus no one person has all their information leading to a huge risk of polypharmacy and drug interactions. They have also commented on over investigation in the private secondary care sector.

Secondly, "specialists" in europe have much less experience than UK Consultants. A paediatric specialist will only have done 3 or 4 years. A UK GP will usually have done 6 months paeds in hospital and more in their year long GP based training time whereas a UK Consultant will have 8 years of training. It is like comparing apples and oranges. I think people just quite like the glamour of seeing the "specialist". I'm also always amused at how patients always see "the top man".

I work all the time with surgeons and while I know who I like personally, who consults/communicates well and lastly who can actually cut well (these things are usually not always done well by the same person) I really don't know on what criteria you decide someone is the "top man"...

Delayingtactic Mon 15-Jul-13 07:23:04

I too am amazed by 'abroad' being so wonderful. Are we talking about America? Surely not as for huge swathes of the population healthcare is unaffordable and patients die from conditions that could be managed here in the UK. Certainly in my home country there are some wonderful things about state provided healthcare but there are heaps of conditions which can't be treated properly because of funding issues.

Wuxiapian Mon 15-Jul-13 07:51:19

I lived in Switzerland for a couple of years, and while I love the UK, the healthcare system was definitely better over there.

Groovee Mon 15-Jul-13 08:48:20

OP I do think YABU. Your daughter should have arranged her medication before she came home at the surgery she is registered with.

That is truly laughable. My cousin is a business manager for 10 practices. None of the permies do any home visits. They are outsourced to private providers.

All our GP's in our practice do home visits. I've often seen various GP's in our area parking their cars and going into a nearby home carrying their dr's bags and a set of notes. We're classed as a big practice with 10 GP's and they often have locums in too. But the locums only do the emergency surgeries.

MojitoMagnet Mon 15-Jul-13 09:47:18

YABVU.

One appointment one problem is vital to enable the GPs to keep their heads above water, which they are only just managing as it is. They are very stretched.

It is not a waste of either their time or yours for you to make a separate appointment for a separate issue.

Appointment slot times (usually 10 minutes for an ordinary appointment, 5 minutes for an emergency) are based on the average time needed, but in actuality they take a range of times. The ones which can actually be dealt with in 2 minutes are a blessing, because they allow the GP to catch up from the fact that some take longer - like the time my son was in for a 5 minute emergency appointment which actually took 20 minutes and ended in being collected from the surgery by ambulance. Those spare 3 minutes which you didn't need from your emergency appointment can be spent way more valuably by you getting out of the room quick than by you trying to fit in another non-urgent issue.

The workload of a surgery will be projected based on the number of people registered with various assumptions made about their health and the number of medical issues that may arise on average. It is right and appropriate to make a proper separate appointment for a non-urgent thing. If they can deal with it in 2 minutes that's brilliant, it will mean 8 minutes less of running-late for everyone else with appointments later that day - where 30 minute delay between appointment time and actual time seen is not uncommon, often due to people with quickly-resolved issues not getting out of the room when they should but instead saying "oh one more thing".

Flobbadobs Mon 15-Jul-13 10:35:56

When I dealt with repeat prescriptions it was always just a note requesting the meds handed in at reception. If she explains when she makes her request before the end of term that she needs enough to cover her holidays when she's back at home she should be covered. She should only see a doctor about them if they need to do a meds review I think.
Honestly when I read threads like this I see why my former boss phased out his drop in clinic! If everyone had a "just one more thing" episode the surgery would never close...

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