shouting "that's really bad parenting" out of a car window is not reasonable behavior(117 Posts)
this was not my finest hour:
3yo DS was having a melt down. Ten minutes away from home he refused to scoot, be carried, or walk in a homeward direction. He let me pull him for a bit on the scooter, but ended up just wanting to push it down on the pavement and stare at it. The midday sun was baring down on us both. I tried to put some sunblock on him, he hates that so more screams. Eventually I found that if I carried the scooter he would follow me crying shouting for the scooter. Shameful, but at least we were getting towards home. We reached a road crossing with traffic lights. I asked DS to press the green button. He refused, so I did, queue another meltdown from DS. When the lights changed I tried to get him to follow me across. He refused. We waited for another green light, still no movement. When the third green light came I walked across to the centre and he looked like he might follow. The lights changed and he was at one side of the lane of traffic and I was at the other and I gave up and went back over to him. The traffic had been held up a bit and someone sounded a horn a few cars back. The cars started moving and some woman shouted out of a window "that's really bad parenting". I felt like
Yes, OK, I should not have let DS more than an arm's reach from me beside a busy road. I'm quite confident about his road sense, but I should not assume drivers are sane. Bad mothering! I also should have taken the pram.
So I'm not proud.
I would have been no more proud if I'd shouted that out of the window though.
AIBU to think if she'd wanted to be helpful to me or DS she could have shouted something else, like "careful" ?
The heat today has been awful and I'm impressed you managed to cope with all that without crying! Have some
If it helps, I have resorted to picking up dd and carrying her with her back to me so she couldn't kick or hit me..... You're far from alone.
Oh Fuck her, like anyone is perfect.
I had a moment summer before last where I sat on the pavement and cried I was so exhausted/fed up/feeling helpless about DD and nothing working with her tantrums. We've all been there!
Hope you're getting a break now.
I'll second the and - you deserve them.
But I have to admit that I'd have dragged mine across (in full tantrum no doubt) rather than let them mess around (and mess other people around) by a busy road. So in some respects I think you got of lightly.
what a horrible person, the world is full of judgeypant people these days, they get a snapshop of a situation and feel the need to comment.
i blame the internet myself
I've been there and I feel your pain.
My 3 year old is exactly as you describe.
What you did was pretty bad parenting but so is a lot of what I do at times.
Gosh imagine that .... You happened to have the worlds best parent in a car at that time!
Or maybe they are just judgemental feckers
It does sound like quite poor decision making, but understandable given you were hot and stressed. I would be very surprised to see someone cross a busy road leaving a 3 year old alone on the other side. Why didn't you carry him across?
Fire mans carry always worked with our eldest who would do this a lot.
Just adding to all the others saying what a horrible thing to shout. A lot of people forget what its like having toddlers. Its the tutting that winds me up no end.
You are very patient.
I would not wait for 3 green lights.
I would grab his hand and pull him across the road and all the way home.
I should have been shouted at, not you.
Screaming fuck off bitch would have been appropriate.
Dorange makes a good point - I'd have bundled mine across the road kicking and screaming then probably made a stupid threat like that I would put the scooter in the bin unless she walked home properly.
That'd probably have got me shouted at too.
I am bit zero tolerance when it comes to crossing roads. Tantrums or not. They don't get to piss about near traffic. But shouting 'that's bad parenting' from a car is just rubbish and so not helpful.
You have the patience of a saint to have not screamed and dragged him across the road, which is almost certainly what I would have done (and regretted it later mind).
The lady in the car was an arsehole to shout that at you. What exactly was she trying to achieve?
DS2 is almost 5 and still behaves like this. I have perfected the rugby hold and haul him about under my arm. He is mortified into doing as he's told.
God, what a caah. You know you could have handled it better, DS probably knows he could have handled it better
somewhere in his 3 yo brain but how in the name of fuck does some dozy mare shouting out of a car help?
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I think you just had one of those days that so many of us have/have had and on the whole I think you were quite restrained.
However, one point I do disagree with: Yes, OK, I should not have let DS more than an arm's reach from me beside a busy road. I'm quite confident about his road sense, but I should not assume drivers are sane. Bad mothering! I also should have taken the pram.
He doesn't have road sense; he's not old enough. I believe ROSPA reckons 7.
If he behaves like that again (and he probably will!) just pick him up and lug him across.
Otherwise, just chalk it up to experience!
I hope you gave her the one fingered salute.
I would have judged you for leaving a very small child on the other side of the road from you, that could have had tragic consequences. Which is probably what went through shouty person's mind too.
She was v rude, but I wouldn't leave a 3 yr old like that,I'd drag or lift tbh...
She's probably a mumsnetter.
Thanks for being largely understanding and sympathetic. Sorry that others have suffered similar.
DH here has more sympathy for the cow in the car.
I did carry him in the end, after taking some time out on some grass by the side of the road. Hard though with bags and scooter too and against his will. I should know better than to have been there in the first place.
I think we've all made that sort of mistake with a pita toddler. It's a nightmare but you have to be brutal and lug them along and you should never have put him on one side of the road and you on the other BUT you know that now, you knew it then and no harm done. Shouting from the car just isn't helpful to anybody. I felt like shouting similarly at a woman I saw yelling at her toddler because said toddler had strayed in to a road at a shopping centre. I wanted to go and say 'hang on - you should be holding her hand,it's not her fault' but I reckon she knew that and if attacked she'd only have got more overwrought.
as a driver I find it quite scary when young children are unattended by the side of teh road and you don't know what they are going to do.The driver wNBU you were!
We all make mistakes, especially in the heat of the moment.
If she was that bothered by your parenting skills she should have got her judgey self out of the car and given you a hand.
Whilst it was obviously not nice to be shouted at, it was an incredibly stupid thing to leave a young child unattended at the side of a road.
Three year olds do not have sufficient road sense for that, no matter how much you think they do.
I would have been thinking just what that driver was thinking. I wouldn't have shouted it, but I would have thought it.
I would also have been annoyed at you holding up the traffic with your arsing around. Next time just pick your child up and carry him home, screaming or not.
you need to perfect the carrying under one arm with legs kicking at the rear and arms pinned to side whilst simultaneously carrying whatever object you need in the other hand and having an expression that gives no indication that there might me a small screaming biting shouting object under your arrm.
it takes practice. i have had plenty of opportunity to perfect this method.
Let me make it clear that I didn't cross the whole road. Just over one lane of traffic.
If I look like I mean it he's more likely to follow. I was ready to get him before the lights changed. I don't plan to do it again.
However, DS almost never walks along beside me holding my hand. Can you really enforce that?
I usually just walk between him and the traffic, or a few feet in front of him.
I guess that's where I'm going wrong.
oh yes and you need to be able to do this one arm scoop up in the middle of the zebra crossing outside school and infront of all the parents and headteacher,, baley missing more than one step.
I'm afraid I would perhaps resort to reins. It's impossible to guess what a toddler will do.
The shouting was just a twats trick and shouldn't bear another thought.
4yo DS still runs off sometimes, and winds me up no end by refusing to consistently obey the "stop" command. He had a major tantrum today because I called him back harshly after he'd climbed through a safety barrier and was making his way towards a sheer drop of about 10 feet. I was terrified, and I suspect that I scared him. Another family's kids were already playing there (why?!), so I think he mainly got confused.
Anyway, point is that you can expect this behaviour to continue for some time yet.
We insist that DS holds a hand for crossing roads, and almost always he complies (he very occasionally has been known to break into a run part way across and get free of us).
I think you need to do holding hands to cross roads as a minimum. I think reins are a last resort for a child of 3.
I'm a driver as I guess many of us on here are, yes it is worrying when you see a toddler or young child not holding their parents hand but being a parent of a very wilful boy I can undestand how this happens
ds (5) refused to go to school today I dragged him along and somehow scratched his leg, he has a mark now and tonight said mummy you did that but it's ok it was an accident as I was being silly
no you were being awful but seeing the mark I feel a bit bad
If I was a driver close to that incident my heart would be beating in car the child ran out. If I had called out it would be because really I was terrified i could have hit your child,
You need a long drink after a day like that, but would cut her some slack, too.
It's bloody hard work and the comment from the car was far from helpful.
I have a 7yo with ASD who is regularly this difficult. He walked the entire km home backwards, a couple of weeks ago. If he's not willingly walking by my side, I have his wrist in a vice like grip. Both wrists, if possible. Not possible with a scooter, i know, but I think that, from now on, the scooter is a reward, when your DS gets home, rather than his means of transport. It obviously creates as many problems as it solves.
And DS2 is wriggly and 23kg and I have hypermobility syndrome, but if he gets serious spaghetti legs somewhere dangerous, I pick him up and move him (and take the good pills when I get home)
I wouldn't let a 3 yo, esp a tantrumming being-unreasonable 3 yo walk without holding a hand when crossing a road or in traffic.
And yy to reins. We've only just stopped using them with DS2 (because he spins around and twists them around my hands). Life was so much less frightening when he would wear them.
I would never have shouted that out of a car window but I would definitely have been thinking it - sorry.
I get it was hot and your toddler was tantrumming (been there many a time with my 3 DC).
But not holding my hand was never an option, especially crossing a road.
I'd rather forcibly carry a tantrumming child or wait until they've calmed down enough to cross safely, rather than put them at risk.
I know that sounds judgey and I'm sorry but I've tried rewording it and it still did.
I'm just impressed with your patience. I have been in countless similar situations and know I would have been shouting and would have roughly dragged dd by her arm across the road or carried her kicking and screaming. I also used to pick up her scooter and threaten to bin it when she wouldn't scoot on it or be pulled. Your tactics were much better.
Picking up and carrying is the best tactic in that situation imo
But we all parent differently.
YABU. Pick him up next time, it was by a road with busy traffic, are you insane?
You and your DC are not the only ones stressed, tired, hot and needing to get home. Grow a pair.
Sometimes you just need to stick them under your arm and go.
Im pretty sure they deliberately save up tantrums like that for when you are on a main road/near judgey people. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to chuck a screaming child under my arm/over my shoulder or drag them across the road by their arm whilst listening to nosey gits tutting at me like their the only children to have ever behaved like it.
The lady who shouted was unreasonable, but had you of dragged your kid across the road she probably would of judged you for that anyway so I wouldnt worry about it too much
I remember pushing the baby in the pram, one twin walking nicely while the other wailed as I carried him like a carpet under my arm. He'd been a shit in Asda and clearly wasn't finished - at one point I was dragging him around as he refused to walk.
I was crying my eyes out all the way home with two three year olds and a baby - a kind word from someone would have been nice.
We've all been there. It wasn't a great idea to leave him near a road but we all make daft decisions at times. i would probably have carried dc across the road and probably triggered another meltdown though. It sounds like you've had a horrible day. Hopefully tomorrow will be better. That woman in the car sounds like an unhelpful unsympathetic cow who either doesn't have kids or has forgotten what it's like.
She was definitely BU for saying the dreaded words 'that's really bad parenting' but I can imagine in a similar situation I would have been sitting in my car, nearly wetting myself in terror at the sight of a 3 year old on the opposite side of the road to his mother. So maybe she just got a fright and felt like she had to let off steam. She was still BU though as she should have followed Louis CK's advice:
'Don't Judge Other Parents'
Can someone tell me also by the way when
the blighters children finally do get the sense to either hold your hand or be carried? I was crossing a car park today with DS (21 months) and he stopped midway across and just rooted himself to the ground, trying to wrest his hand out of mine wanting to walk on his own. He KNOWS he is not allowed to walk on his own where there are cars and yet he still always tries to slip my grasp! I had my other hand full with a bottle of water and my wallet so he ended up falling over onto the ground although I blocked his fall with my foot so he didn't bang his head. Cue me grappling in the middle of the car park to pick him up and not drop the water or my wallet or car keys either - Christ! Luckily there were no cars coming but I can imagine some busy-body giving me disapproving stares if there were.
I wouldn't say anything, but I would be judging you leaving a child on the side of a road on his own. And also for you standing in the middle of the road.
She saw a fees seconds and judged all of us have done that
Yes I think you can - and should - enforce hand holdingat 3. And if you can't, use reins/back pack
You need to know you can keep your child safe while out and about.
If I was in a car I would have had to stay at a standstill until you were holding your child; no way would I have risked driving past an unaccompanied 3 year old, whichis what he was at that point.
I realise this may sound harsh but really you are lucky this turned out well and have been lucky every time if you have not habitually been holding his hand.
There is s poster on mumsnet who lost a child who ran out on to a road; I think of her all the time and while my 3 year old will hold my hand I stilk take his backpack reins if we are going somewhere v busy when I also have the baby's pram
My three and five year old are like that. You poor thing I can just imagine you were at the end of your tether and it was the last thing you needed to hear.
It is VERY hard to carry a child who does not want to be carried plus your bag and the scooter and whatever else you had. Of course you won't do it again but sometimes when our buttons are completely pushed its hard to be everything.
not so chic not every child will wear reins. Mine lie on the ground kick and scream like a stranded beetle and I have two choices- drag them, or don't use the reins. Short of dislocating a limb it does not work. All children are different.
NapaCab Fri 12-Jul-13 04:03:26
"She was definitely BU for saying the dreaded words 'that's really bad parenting' but I can imagine in a similar situation I would have been sitting in my car, nearly wetting myself in terror at the sight of a 3 year old on the opposite side of the road to his mother. So maybe she just got a fright and felt like she had to let off steam."
If, God forbid, a tantrumming 3yo ever ran out in front of our car, I would find it very difficult to forgive the parent who left them unattended and crossed to another lane of traffic just to make a point.
Yes, you can enforce handholding (easiest if you hold them by the wrist). Yes, you can pick them up and carry them.
Yes, you can make them wear reins.
But no, you can not trust their road sense ust because they've never run into the traffic before. Especially not when they are in a tantrum.
I think the heat is making people more arsey, tbh. That said, if you were holding the traffic up and people saw your DC on his own, I understand why they were angry - they were probably worried that your DS was going to.run out into the traffic.
I feel a bit sick reading this. I would have got a terrible fright if I had seen this as I would have assumed that DS wasn't with you and was lost. If i could have stopped safely and DH was in the car to look after the baby, I would have probably put my hazards on and stopped and run out and got him. I would not know, assume or trust that a very small child had good road sense. Particularly when he was het up and could have bolted across the road to his mother.
And them when you went back to get him and the traffic was delayed - I presume it was a green light. I'd be so worried that some twat not paying attention would just shoot off.
She should not have shouted at you but sometimes - when people get a big fright, which she might - then the adrenaline can make people act very aggressively. I also wonder if she was trying to impress on you (badly) as she couldn't stop to talk that what happened had the potential to have horrible consequences
Sorry - I know you were very stressedetc but I cannot in all conscience post that you made a good decision
And yes - as above - you can enforce hand holding. You grab by the wrist or by the upper arm. I'm a mistress of doing this with my dear nephew - who is nearly 3.
He's pretty good with hand holding though as be knows it is never, ever negotiable. Ever. If he tanantrums, he's in the pram the next time he is taken out. If he goes rubber legged, he's picked up and carried. I
I do sympathise with how difficult it all is but I'm afraid I'm going with the YABU camp on this.
'I'm quite confident about his road sense' He's 3. I find that a worrying thing to assume.
My son had a very very similar melt down when he was 3. He had many. But several are etched on my mind forever, and this is one of them.
It was summer too and we too had a scooter. Except my tantruming toddler reFUSEs to walk mid tantrum. We lived up a huge hill as well, I had to half carry half drag him because he was the size of a 5 year old and I was pregnant. It was horrible, I was getting so hot, hurt (physically) and more and more wound up.
I couldnt walk off/walk away because his road sense was and still is 3 years on, terrible, he would have wondered into the road. Ive dragged him out the road countless times.
Honestly it was horrible, I really, really, really disliked him that day. Carrying him under my arm, hot and pregnant whilst he screamed shouted and kicked and I tried to carry his bastard scooter too.
Fucking horrible morning that was.
Idocrazy with reins you can also lift them off their feet and carry like a bag with a handle in short bursts. It gets them moving and generally mine were not that keen and would walk rather than be lifted. Not ideal but it kept them moving and out of danger.
My Aspie DS has had several public meltdowns and I used to pick him up and carry him if necessary, yelling and howling. Even when he was 6.
It's embarrassing and you get a lot of judgy looks and comments.
I have also collapsed on the pavement and refused to go any further with the yelling and screaming and been on the verge of tears.
I have also manhandled him when it has been necessary and he wouldn't move, and it must have looked like a clip from The Sweeny on occasion.
But you left your DS on the other side of a busy road, and yes, that is bad parenting. You know what could have happened. Pissing off the drivers wouldn't even register on my radar, but he could have been killed.
Perhaps the yeller was so astounded that they wanted to make you realise it?
'Idocrazy with reins you can also lift them off their feet and carry like a bag with a handle in short bursts. It gets them moving and generally mine were not that keen and would walk rather than be lifted. Not ideal but it kept them moving and out of danger.'
Yes, done that many, many times too.
Not as dangerous as dragging them by an arm either.
Poor you, that must have been a shitty thing to hear but honestly, I think if I'd have seen that as a snapshot, i.e. a child on his own on any part of crossing a road, I would have been a bit shocked too, - there's no way that motorist could know whether or not you were in charge of the situation.
It sounds like he has rather too much control over how things go when he's walking with you. Hands held whenever crossing the road IME - no argument.
3 is too young to really have reliable road sense especially during a meltdown.
The OP has already admitted this was not her finest hour and she is not proud. Think she is well aware that what she did was "bad parenting" in the heat of the moment - I'm not sure that everyone repeating this fact is really helping.
OP have a
Don't know Sally, do you think she'll leave him alone and out of grabbing range next to a busy road again?
Because if people pointing out that carrying him, yelling at him, dumping the scooter or giving him a wallop would all have been less life-endangering than leaving him on the other side of a stream of traffic makes her think 'That was stupid, I'll never do that again' then I think there is a point.
It is also worth pointing out that other people do have a right to judge you on issues that could potentially affect more lives than one. A child who runs into traffic could easily cause a traffic accident which kills a child travelling in one of the cars in the subsequent traffic pile-up.
When you are out and about your decisions do not only affect you and your offsprings but other people around you. You can't take decisions in isolation.
No ones perfect, next time I'd go for a fire and lift but you'll probably find someone who'll object to that too
Of course they'll object, but that's not the point.
Your child is unlikely to be killed as a consequence of you carrying him in a fireman's lift. Likewise him yelling and wailing will make them tut and hiss like vipers, but won't endanger him.
What a cheeky bitch. You would not have been unreasonable to have covered your Dc's ears and screamed back 'Get fucked, cock chops'.
I feel your pain- I've been there so many times myself. But I'm sorry I'd have judged you a bit too. I would never ever shout at someone in the street about it but I'd have freaked out seeing a tiny child standing by the side of the road on his own mid tantrum. He's 3. He has no road sense whatsoever, especially mid tantrum.
Honestly next time pick him up and carry him at least across the road. Or failing that, firm grip of the wrist or upper arm. Like I said been here plenty of times with my nearly 6 year old (and as DS is still only 2 got loads of these scenarios to come!). Hand holding to cross the road is non negotiable imo.
No 3 year old has road sense and you got off lightly in that he didn't get run over to be honest.
However you are far more patient than me.
I didn't do tantrums and I would have dragged him across the road.
Think the heat makes us all a bit crazy though.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Yes she would have been. The yelling motorist wasn't the one endangering her child's life.
Think about it though, OP.
You on the island in the middle, you look at him and he runs to you.
Right in front of a van.
If you do this again, that might be the consequence.
All the judging and criticism about noise, rudeness, fussy eating, clothing, pierced ears and the rest of the petty crap that gets picked over on here and out IRL is nothing compared to that
I wouldn't have shouted.
To be fair though, the driver probably felt scared.
I am really surprised you felt confident enough to leave your son
You need to take control next time.
I'm sounding bossy now too sorry you might have caused an accident for others also.
As a car driver, if I had seen the mum starting to cross and the child not moving, I would have just waited for the mum to come back to him. I wouldn't have been worried about hurting the child because I was NOT moving (light was red before) and therefore no risk of hurting anyone.
The problem wasn't there. The problem was that a few people got hold up for a bit and got annoyed (effect of the heat). It wasn't a reason to take it on the OP though.
Faults on both sides really. I would be terrified if I saw a toddler on his own beside a busy road and nearly afriad to move the car an inch in case he ran out suddenly and yes I would definitely be thinking 'what is that bloody irresponsible woman thinking of'. But no I wouldn't shout that out of the car window.
But seriously, what you did could have had tragic consequences ruining not only your own life but some innocent driver's as well.
But at the same time I too have had moments where I have just lost it inside and nearly wanted to strangle a dc with my bare hands.
The yellers choice of wording was poor.
However. .she just saw a snapshot and probably thought she had to say something. .how was she to know that wasn't just how you always crossed road.
She didn't have time to give you a detailed lecture so just yelled something, thinking of your Ds, I assume. She hadn't seen the build up
However I understand your annoyance havjng wanted to shout at the woman who told DD to walk carefully down the stairs as DD was making a meal of it and giggling. .she didnt know DD struggles with stairs so judged on a snapshot, but I suppose wanted DD to be safe.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
The driver is right though; you shouldn't have left him at one side of the road with you on the other. I sometimes do the walking away and saying goodbye thing as it does sometimes encourage my 3 year old to follow me but I would never put a road between us.
Can you give him a piggy back? I often do this if DS is tired or being awkward.
It was a nasty thing to hear, but it was true. I would savage seven shades of shit out of DP if he made the same parenting decision you did. I would also sack a nanny/childminder if I knew she'd done this.
I would put her comment out of your mind but I would ensure you have a strategy for this in future.
For what it's worth, my strategy (I have a small baby and a confidently walking 2 year old) is that DD1 walks, but if toddler rage occurs (which happens not infrequently) I restrain toddler with knees, put baby in a sling which I always keep under buggy and toddler gets strapped into buggy. I get that you might not want / need a buggy everywhere but if you've got a lightweight one you can pile all your kit in it and use it strap DS in if necessary.
Carry your kit in a rucksack, not a handbag or cross body bag which slips all over the place
Reins are a godsend. I don't think any child puts them on willingly at first but they soon forget they're wearing them. Reins backpacks are good.
Get a strap for the scooter so you can loop it over your shoulder.
Now forget about it and move on.
Well the first car if front will see and wait. And the others behind that car will have to wait anyway?
I would be surprise that cars would have been able/tried to overtake with the OP still in the middle of the road.
There are some slings you can fit a three year old in, like an Ergo on your back. Just like piggy back but safer and hands free.
'Well the first car in front will see and wait'
Which is why I said van. Like the ones that frequently drive through amber and red lights round here. Too risky.
i feel your pain.
I think some posters saying YABU don't realise you were on a pedestrian crossing AND you had only partially crossed the road.
Depending on how strong you both are, carrying a toddler through traffic can also be dangerous.
there are no easy solutions.
the woman was an arse.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
It wasn't nice of the woman to shout that and having been in the position of being close to tears where DD at the same age had taken her scooter to the park then been 'too tired' to scoot back and refused to walk/move, I do feel your pain.
However. I threatened to dump her scooter, to the extent of putting it in the bin at one point. And if she hadn't immediately got back on it and behaved herself that scooter would have been left in the bin. DD's safety on the roads is more important than a scooter.
I am probably the mother from hell and have scarred her for life, but I have impressed on DD from a very early age that she MUST hold my hand when we are on the street and crossing roads/in a car park/wherever cars are around - and that if she doesn't A Car Will Hit Her And She Will End Up In Hospital Or DIE (in my defence she has dyspraxia and never pays attention to the traffic or looks where she's going, we have only just started doing crossing the (quiet) road on her own (with me shadowing) at age 8 and it's terrifying me to see her lack of attention...). It started from the earliest times she was let out of the pushchair - her freedom to walk around was conditional on holding my hand or the pushchair, and if she messed about she went straight back in the pushchair. Reins didn't work, but the threat of the pushchair did.
"However, DS almost never walks along beside me holding my hand. Can you really enforce that?"
My 3 yr old hates holding hands, too. But if it's near traffic the rule is she either holds my hand, or I carry her (or she goes in the buggy if I have it with me).
We walk her sister to school every morning and we have this argument at every single road we cross, and have been having it since September.
I sympathise, as it's very wearing. But it is non negotiable.
I think that leaving him on the other side of the road was unsafe, and 'dragging him' as others have suggested would have been a bad decision too as that would have been disrespectful to him and destroyed his trust in you. What would have been better, and more respectful to him, would have been to press the button when HE was ready, that way not disturbing the traffic unnecessarily, and make walking across the road fun and joyful however you could. Scoop him up like an aeroplane, or run across the road like a race, anything that would make your child enjoy the experience. i would NEVER advise dragging him or leaving him but there are a heap of much happier alternatives in between those two extremes IMO
I don't see how she could have scooped him up like an aeroplane when she had a scooter and bags to carry, to be fair embracethemuffintop.
And mine have always been taught not to go racing across roads so I wouldn't make them race to the other side either.
"her freedom to walk around was conditional on holding my hand or the pushchair, and if she messed about she went straight back in the pushchair."
This worked pretty well for me, too. However, with multiple young children, reins also had their place.
What a snugglesome, gentle and lovely idea Embrace.
Indeed, enchanting him from his tantrum with imaginative role play delights would have been a better choice.
But unfortunately it wasn't pixiedust and twinkly bubbles time, it was a knackered and over-heated pair attempting to get home and struggling.
Perhaps you've never been at the wanting to scream and flail stage yourself.
"I don't see how she could have scooped him up like an aeroplane when she had a scooter and bags to carry, to be fair embracethemuffintop."
If she couldn't get everything and the child across a busy road, then she could have asked someone to help. Maybe someone could carry the scooter/bags while she carried her child. And then made sure she wasn't in that position again.
Or, if possible, hang bags on scooter, drag scooter across and carry child.
unless the driver was intending to stop and help she should have kept her trap shut
<I was trying not to go down that route when I composed my reply, but tickled to see someone did>
Sorry, I can be a very woo parent on many occasions but I think the OP deserves sympathy for being at the end of her tether whilst recognising that what she actually did wasn't good.
I'm not woo when crossing roads, and my 18 and 22 year old have not had their trust destroyed by any sense. In fact, in stressful situations they still often have an expectation that I'll know what to do to keep them safe.
Apparently I am an earworm.
To be brutally honest my then 3 year old ds did run away from my hand holding once and put a toe in the road, I smacked his bottom hard, one and only time, and he never ever misbehaved by the road again!
I've never smacked mine, or sworn in their company before they were around 16ish, and then only mildly.
They used to get a home-cooked from scratch meal every night, with preferences catered for. I have an art/craft cupboard to die for, and the garden is a delight and nature trail all in one.
I am cuddly and lovely, small children and their parents have wept bitter tears on finding their child not in my class. <twinkle twinkle>
But I have also been that exhausted woman with a 6 year old in meltdown on my shoulder and the community looking [shocked]
I told said 3 year old to fetch me a 'bloody large glass of wine' last night. In my defence he's now 23 and remember with fondness the smack.
I am sorry but when you are crossing a road with a three year old behaviour is non negotiable...holding hands is imperative.
My dd can do the meltdown not wanting to walk/scooter/be carried thing. But she either walks holding hands/with her back back or I carry her/put her back in the pushchair and sling scooter over top of pushchair etc.
Holding hands or wearing the back pack by the busy road is NOT negotiable at all. Either she does or she goes in the pushchair, this has resulted in her screaming the entire half an hour walk home from school, but she didn't get run over... Screaming tantrum v's child possibly run over, I will take the tantrum any day thanks.
As a passer by I would have been terrified to see a toddler near the road on their own, as another mother I would offer to help if I could tho is carry scooter/bags etc for you.
I'm really surprised at the responses the OP has been given. She acknowledged she made a bad choice. She said it would never happen again she was not asking anyone if what she did was reasonable as in her mind it was not, and not a situation she would put herself in again.
Unless i read her post wrong
She was asking if the woman who road raged her was reasonable. No that woman was not. She was rude and could have caused the situation to escalate further.
I'm also a bit at people saying yes you can drag a child. It only takes a second for a small shoulder to pop out or an elbow to dislocate. My DS has very flexible joints and whilst he has never dislocated anything I am very careful not to pull on him too hard. Because of his flexibility he can move his wrist in abnormal ways which makes it difficult to keep a tight hold of him too. Hence he goes in the ergo baby carrier quite a bit still. (He is also very good at getting out of prams)- with the ergo there is no escape!
Maybe I should put him in some contortionist classes??
I think 'drag' means hold hand tightly and walk smartly across a road so child has to do the same.
Not physically drag if you see what I mean.
For me, drag is to grasp one arm firmly (not by the wrist, since DS2 and I both have joints that pop - I take care to make sure that I come out of it the worst) and have a hand on his back, holding his clothes, if necessary to keep him moving forwards and not spinning around. If he's wearing a coat, I hold the end of his sleeve, rather than his arm.
I had the pair of them melting down on the way home, one hot day, last week. It wasn't pretty. I was ready to sit down in the middle of the street and scream, myself.
I'm glad thebody and I hope the others meant the same.
At the end if the day though it comes down to individual personality. Two of my three have very strong personalities and I have had to develop a type of frog march to get mine going when reluctant to move. As wrist/hand holding does not work for us. I truly hate to think what people think of me sometimes
especially this past week but I am glad not to have had critical remarks; that would truly tip me over I think. Sometimes on a really bad day, we need a little compassion. And wine. And chocolate.
Not for one second is it ok to leave a child near a road, but the op already knows this and does not need it rubbing in her face, any more than it has already been.
Thanks everyone, especially all those who went to the trouble of being kind.
I'm happy to report a much better day today: no tantrums, not even any tears.
I was especially happy to be holding his hand every time we crossed a road and it wasn't even that hard to get him to co-operate. I half got the impression he actually enjoyed it in fact.
They shouldn't have yelled out the window, but we have a 'hold hands on road' rule no ifs buts or maybes.
Fireman's carry or football hold, or as a last resort in the middle of the road, I will pull them up by their arm and drag them.
No fucking around on or near roads.
You have my sympathy, been there, done that.
It was another day when everyone survived. Some days that is my only goal. Don't worry over what had happened but reflect on what you could do better next time and have that plan ready to go. Sounds to me like you are a lot more patient than I am.
DD2 (2.7) is beginning to bolt and if she will not hold my hand then I grip her wrist until she agrees and from time to time we've sat down on the ground and waited. She used to be good at holding onto the side of the pushchair but after she let go and bolted into the roadway (internal to a hospital) 2 weeks ago I'm not trusting her. One of the ambulance crew leaped out at my yell and afterwards said he was going to tell me to hold onto her better, but my reaction showed that I had zero tolerance of her behaviour. She got placed very firmly in the buggy and strapped in.
I did think about maybe taking the kids out today. But I'm now thinking we should stay in where it's cooler and there's slightly less chance of meltdown
Water off a ducks back, you know better, you do better next time. No one's fucking perfect. Especially not that good for nothing shouter!
Balls to her.
And that's that.
I do the underarm thing for 2.5 DS too - he hates it - calls it 'being stuck under your arm' - and it will usually force him to walk. When do they grow out of this?!
DD is quite a - ahem - character.
This Monday she threw a spectacular tantrum on the bus....pulling her own hair, hitting her own face and head, and biting her own feet (always a favourite).
An elderly woman on the bus was barking "You silly girl!" at her at regular intervals and I ended up snapping "Thanks for the input, but I've got this."
I just started talking to DS about his friend's birthday, and completely ignored her.....a few seconds later and DD had started to calm down.
The woman on the bus saw me doing what looked like nothing, but I was doing exactly what works with DD.....removing the oxygen of attention.
You took a judgement call based on your experience, at a very trying time. The bint in the car, if she was that great a person/parent, would have seen this and would have thought "Kids choose the best times, eh?" instead.
Huge sympathy from me. As the parent of a 3yo DS, I have been in this exact situation more than once.
I am 100% sure I didn't handle it perfectly, and would have been bloody livid at the drive-by parenting guidance you received. What an absolute bloody cow bag. I bet that on reflection she felt bad about it actually.
She didn't make the best choice of words but she probably got the fright of her life. Agree with other posters who say take this as an opportunity to have a plan for those meltdown moments. Am in full sympathy after having walked along the road on Thursday with DD under one arm also carrying toy bugg, doll, hat, sunglasses, shopping, juice, handbag... nice dusty footprints on my cream coloured trousers.
Big sympathy here too. I remember being 8 months pg with DS2 and Dd was 2 and a bit at the time and refusing buggy but getting fed up halfway through DS1's school run and demanding to be carried. Once she sat down smack in the middle of the busy road we have to cross. Fucking nightmare - stuck with child, buggy, lumbering pregnant bulk and a car coming. Somehow I got them all out the way fast enough and screamed like a fishwife at her once safe on pavement.
Another mother stopped and I basically screamed at her too but all she was trying to do was ask if I was ok. I was on such a war footing I totally misread it. We always say hello now
I think most people would sympathise if they have ever had to deal with toddler strops and roads. It's hellish.
All sounds like standard practice in our house and thankfully nobody has ever been bold enough to shout at me in public! It's less than ideal and you know that but I have done similar things in a fit of peak or desperation and I think this is all normal life with a toddler. What a bitch she was. Don't dwell on it and enjoy the sun!
I remember struggling to get DS into his car seat once, he was doing the old arching his back trick. The car door was open onto the pavement and meant that no one could get past. I tried to pull the door in to let this old biddy past and she said something about not having all day to wait for me. I snapped quite loudly at her to fuck off!
Not my finest hour, but the look on her face was brilliant oh and I think DS knew that the Mummy was on the verge of complete meltdown and got into his seat!
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