to feel a bit upset that my daughter was made to look like she was being unreasonable??

(107 Posts)
mimitwo Mon 08-Jul-13 18:36:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JumpingJackSprat Mon 08-Jul-13 18:41:04

Definitely not being unreasonable. think that boy needs to learn some social boundaries!

Scrubber Mon 08-Jul-13 18:42:20

No, the boy should have been properly told off so as not to do it again.

Mother being stupid. Personally I'd contact the school.

Squitten Mon 08-Jul-13 18:43:34

No! If my sons ever did that to a little girl I'd go ballistic!

Yanbu I would be talking to the teacher to make them aware that this is going on.

absoultey not a right of passage, more like a violation of her personal privacy.

If i heard my DS was doing that i would be going absolutely bananas at him and making him apologise there and then to you and your DD.

Did she tell the school what was going on?

ReginaPhilangie Mon 08-Jul-13 18:45:28

Definitely not a rite of passage! My opinion will not be a popular one, but in all honesty I would encourage her to go to school tomorrow, pull his pants down and do the same to him. Guarantee he won't do it again. How old are they btw? Depending on age I'd be concerned about him doing to this to girls and somehow thinking it's okay.

cory Mon 08-Jul-13 18:45:50

I'd have a gentle word with the teacher/Head about what happened, so that she can then have a stern word in assembly and knock this rite de passage idea on its head.

phantomnamechanger Mon 08-Jul-13 18:47:26

not acceptable - unless the mum is also Ok with your DD pulling her DSs trousers down and laughing at his pants - which I very much doubt, then this is NOT "just a game" - it is bullying behaviour.

School/nursery need to know about this, not least because they need to keep an eye on any children showing inappropriate sexual/personal space behaviours

how old are they by the way?

mimitwo Mon 08-Jul-13 18:49:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Plomino Mon 08-Jul-13 18:50:11

Absolutely not . How dare he make your DD feel that way. Why should she just 'take it ' ? I'm no overprotective parent by any stretch of the imagination, but it'd be straight up the school in the morning. If this is going on at school , then it's not appropriate and they ought to be doing something about it . How can they teach children how to be safe and protect their bodies , if they then condone having your clothing intefered with and their underwear mocked . No no no .

Eyesunderarock Mon 08-Jul-13 18:52:24

It's not a rite of passage in any primary school that I've taught in, any more than having your head flushed down the toilet or your arm twisted up behind your back.
I wouldn't bother engaging with the mother, but I would definitely talk to the teacher and if that wasn't enough, I'd email the head. It would involve group/class discussion and a mention without names in assembly about what games are appropriate and how people have the right to play without being distressed by others. No blame and shame, education.
Regina's response is not good and will cause a lot more trouble than it is worth without solving the problem.
Even if the boy is 4, he needs to learn boundaries and his mother is obviously bugger all use. The school is your best bet.

Eyesunderarock Mon 08-Jul-13 18:52:58

Y2?
Absolutely not OK.

Scruffey Mon 08-Jul-13 18:53:33

No it's not a rite of passage. My 7yo ds would not do this to a girl because we have spoken about it. I would be very embarrassed if he did.

Scruffey Mon 08-Jul-13 18:54:09

And yes I would tell the teacher definitely

phantomnamechanger Mon 08-Jul-13 18:56:20

Y2 is old enough to know better

pudcat Mon 08-Jul-13 19:00:03

Please tell the teacher tomorrow. This is inappropriate behaviour even for young children. If the culprits saw that your DD was upset and did not stop it is bullying as well.

onedev Mon 08-Jul-13 19:01:35

Definitely old enough to know better - I'd go into the school. If that were one of my boys, they'd have gotten a serious talking to - that other mums reaction was unacceptable.

GoldenGytha Mon 08-Jul-13 19:01:54

It is most definitely not a rite of passage, and your DD does not have to accept this.

I have 2 DDs and 1 DS and I'd be furious if either DDs had had it done to them, or DS had done it to any girl.

I'd be having a word with the teacher, and she can have a chat in class about this not being acceptable. The boy should also be made to apologise, not in a public humiliation way, but in private.

mimitwo Mon 08-Jul-13 19:01:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Harryhairypig Mon 08-Jul-13 19:02:14

She is not unreasonable at all and it needs reporting to school and they should deal with it. It's inappropriate boundaries. My ds had his trousers and pants pulled down in the playground and school kept the child that did it in until the end of term when he luckily left.

fengirl1 Mon 08-Jul-13 19:03:41

'Rite of passage' is a load of bullshit. I have never heard of this - but I have heard of boys doing this to girls (funny that its never the other way around) and getting into huge trouble for it, and rightly so.

themaltesecat Mon 08-Jul-13 19:04:34

That mother is a fucking weirdo.

5inabed Mon 08-Jul-13 19:07:09

I would be fuming if someone did this to my daughters. I just asked my 7 year old dd if this happens in her school and she was scandalised and said no.

ChasedByBees Mon 08-Jul-13 19:12:16

What kind of weird lessons is he teaching her son? That girls don't have any right to complain if you invade their personal space and behave in a sexually humiliating aggressive way? Jeez.

Joiningthegang Mon 08-Jul-13 19:12:32

My son is y2 - I don't think such behaviour would even occur to him tbh

The mother is weird - let school know

Nat38 Mon 08-Jul-13 19:13:20

Same sort of thing happened to my DD in Year 4, 4 children were excluded for a time, the Head Mistress wanted to permantly expel them but had to follow official guide lines & such.
But it did go on all 4 childrens school records to follow them all the way through their school life.

Eyesunderarock Mon 08-Jul-13 19:36:42

It is normal for children to be rude, cheeky, inappropriate and lacking in empathy, which is why they need adults to teach them what is acceptable and what isn't.
They aren't born with the skills, it's taught directly and indirectly by the people they encounter.
He needs to know that it isn't funny or a game and that doing something stupid and humiliating to someone else for a cheap laugh from his friends is a very bad choice. He sort of knows that already, which is probably why he cried.

Remotecontrolduck Mon 08-Jul-13 19:53:19

He would have got a massive dressing down from me and told strongly what is and isn't appropriate, with some other form of sanction.

I think it's important to emphasise even very young, to boys in particular about boundaries and inappropriate behaviour, and when girls say no, it means no. Or boys say no for that matter.

5Foot5 Mon 08-Jul-13 20:08:34

I remember just after I started school a slightly older boy tripped me on the school field so he could lift my dress and then shout out what colour knickers I was wearing to his friends. I told my Mum as soon as I got home and, as luck would have it, she saw the boy in the corner shop the next day and had a very stern word with him. He never did it again.

polarpercy Mon 08-Jul-13 20:29:52

YANBU, it doesn't matter if the boy thought it was a 'game' or 'rite of passage'. Your dd didn't want to be part of it (and 'games' like this should definitely be stamped out by schools and parents together) and should be allowed to say no without being made to feel bad. What an odd attitude from the other mother. Hope your dd is ok.

Cherriesarelovely Mon 08-Jul-13 20:33:47

What a load of rubbish! A rite of passage???? Just a pathetic attempt to minimise what her child had done. Seriously, take no notice of her, that is ridiculous. Definitely go and see the teacher.

flipchart Mon 08-Jul-13 20:39:59

I am normaly the first person to say stop running to the teacher, deal with issues with your child etc.
However on this it wouldn't be a quite word with teacher as some one suggested.
I would be roaring. In fact I would have turned round and gone back to the school there and then.

volvocowgirl Mon 08-Jul-13 20:40:49

YANBU - go talk to the school.
Hope you're daughter is okay.

MummytoKatie Mon 08-Jul-13 20:45:17

I can remember when I was in Y1 us all being sat on the carpet and being told that knicker chase was very naughty and anyone doing it would be sent to the head.

By doing the maths this would have been 84 or 85.

To give you an idea of what was appropriate in schools in the mid 80s, corporal punishment was not abolished until 1987 in state schools.

So knicker chase - not allowed. Hitting small children with sticks - fine.

Ohhelpohnoitsa Mon 08-Jul-13 20:47:46

Yes tell school asap. Local school here just excluded 2 boys for inappropriate touching & it was no worse than you are describing. The mother is an oaf & if she doesn't teach him what is right, school will. Kind thoughts to your dd.

holidaysarenice Mon 08-Jul-13 20:54:54

Absolutely not!! Report it straight away to the school. He knew he had done wrong when he tried to hide.

Years ago this happened to a neighbours child. She reported it to the police who got involved as the boy was about 7 yrs older. They took it very seriously.

My 6yo DD suddenly announced that she didn't want to wear Hello Kitty knickers any more because "some of my friends think it's babyish"

When I pushed a little, it turned out that the friends in question were all boys. I wrote it off to the fact that they get changed in their classroom, but now I am wondering.

YA definitely NBU, OP. Definitely talk to the teacher. Circle time on boundaries is called for, and I would question your friendship with this woman IIWY.

WorraLiberty Mon 08-Jul-13 21:13:04

Of course it isn't a rite of passage but then again you know that.

I agree with others who have said talk to the teacher

SmiteYouWithThunderbolts Mon 08-Jul-13 21:23:20

Only year 2 as well? That's heartbreaking. No your dd is not being unreasonable at all and games like this are NOT a rite of passage. It's an invasion of her personal space and frankly humiliating. If there's any vital message to instill into all children, it's their right to bodily autonomy and respect for one another.

Time to speak to the school, I think. His mother clearly isn't going to discourage his behaviour or take your daughter's feelings seriously.

Fairenuff Mon 08-Jul-13 21:27:49

I work in Year 2 and there is definitely a growing interest in and awareness of each other's underwear. However, we have a no nonsense approach and nip any sniggering in the bud.

I would probably say to the boy something like, do you wear pants? It's just underwear, everyone wears it and it's called underwear because you wear it under your clothes.

I have about 3 children out of 30 that I have had to speak with this year and we tell them that if it happens again we will call their parents into school to speak with them.

Also, it's very important that your dd knows that she can tell a teacher at the time. She will be taken seriously. So, yes, have a word with her teacher in the morning.

5madthings Mon 08-Jul-13 21:29:19

Yanbu at all! If any of my boys had behaved in that way they would be in BIG trouble!! 'some girls dont lije it' way to excuse her sons behaviour ffs what kind of messages is she giving her son?!!

Please do tell the school so they can tell the boy it is not appropriate as he clearly isnt going to be taught decent boundaries by his mother.

primroseyellow Mon 08-Jul-13 21:31:31

YANBU. It is totally unacceptable and not normal behaviour. It could be described as sexual harassment. Definitely raise it with the school, I suggest HT rather than class teacher. You might suggest it is a safegurarding issue if the school don't take it seriously. It needs to be stopped. The incident happended at school when school had parental responsibility.

BrianTheMole Mon 08-Jul-13 21:33:47

Its not ok. If my ds did that I would absolutely be telling him its not ok at all. Have a word with the school.

notanyanymore Mon 08-Jul-13 21:34:10

I can't believe the boys mum actually endorsed it right infront of him! Sounds like he might have actually seen the error of his ways up until that point.

Eyesunderarock Mon 08-Jul-13 21:38:19

It's only a game, they were just playing, he meant it as a joke...

I can believe that is how the boy's mother sees it, which is why it is better to let the school do the explaining to him, and tell him what the consequences will be if it happens again.
Both children need protecting.

LouiseSmith Mon 08-Jul-13 21:40:32

I wounder what these mothers will say when there "boys" are in trouble for sexual harassment as an adult. Its wrong. I would report to the school.

Allow DS to wear shorts under her dress.

Eyesunderarock Mon 08-Jul-13 21:42:38

She could wear shorts but she shouldn't have to.
The problem is his behaviour, not hers.

MrsRochestersCat Mon 08-Jul-13 21:43:23

That is not ok. Same thing happened at our school - it was dealt with as a safeguarding issue because the school has a duty to protect the children from sexual harassment (which is what this boils down to) - it can also be an indicator of sexual abuse for the child who is showing an interest in another's private area. It is taken very seriously. Speak to HT, not class teacher.

LilacPeony Mon 08-Jul-13 21:44:15

God I can't believe that the mother and her friend tried to make out almost that you and your dd were overreacting as it is rite of passage and tried to insinuate that most girls wouldn't mind it. She is sending a dreadful message to her son and i hope that when you speak to the school they make it known that they take it very seriously and will not tolerate it! I've got dds at primary school and i have never heard them mention this.

HarumScarum Mon 08-Jul-13 21:44:16

But why should she wear shorts? It's hot. A dress and pants is hardly unreasonable attire. Maybe the boy should have his hands tied behind his back if he can't keep them to himself. Why should the girl be punished by wearing hot and uncomfortable clothes in boiling hot weather when she hasn't done a single thing wrong?

thebody Mon 08-Jul-13 21:44:47

I work in a school and trust me this will be taken very very seriously.

The boy could be excluded at our school for this.

The mother sounds bat shit crazy.

Inform the school tomorrow.

omaoma Mon 08-Jul-13 21:45:26

honestly, i have no idea why dresses and skirts are still on uniform lists. the boy was very wrong (and his mum wronger) but trousers and shorts would stop quite a large number of opportunities to continue sexual harassment and belittling of women and girls, from schools. don't mean to hijack OP but it makes me apoplectic, i think some headteachers/governors have fetish problems.

your daughter has my huge sympathy and yes, go to the school, it's bloody harassment and hideous that his mum protected him.

rockybalboa Mon 08-Jul-13 21:45:57

What a little shit, your poor DD. definitely have a word with the school.

omaoma Mon 08-Jul-13 21:46:20

ps harum, shorts don't have to be hot and uncomfortable do they?

HarumScarum Mon 08-Jul-13 21:48:26

No, but I imagine pretty much nobody would have wanted an extra layer under their dress today when it was boiling hot. I know I wouldn't personally have chosen to wear shorts under a dress at any time of year. It's, erm, odd. DD went to school in shorts and a T shirt, as it happens, but should she have wanted to wear a dress I honestly don't see why the onus should be on her to wear shorts to prevent some boy looking at her pants!

HarumScarum Mon 08-Jul-13 21:49:38

Also, it is the responsibility of the harasser not to harass. It is not the responsibility of the victim to make him or her unable to do so.

LilacPeony Mon 08-Jul-13 21:50:41

I agree with " it is the responsibility of the harasser not to harass. It is not the responsibility of the victim to make him or her unable to do so."

Fairenuff Mon 08-Jul-13 21:51:16

Girls can wear shorts at our school if they want to but a cotton dress is much cooler.

MrsRochestersCat Mon 08-Jul-13 21:52:53

Why should my daughters loose the freedom of choice because of another's perversions? In what way will shorts prevent this boy (or governor?) from exposing their knickers 'for fun'?

blackbirdatglanmore Mon 08-Jul-13 21:54:11

god, I remember being cornered by three boys and having this done to me, they actually took my pants down as well and said there was poo on them blush there wasn't!

I still remember how horrible that was; yanbu at all. I just wish someone has stuck up for me. Happened in my own garden too!

SodaStreamy Mon 08-Jul-13 21:55:08

Sorry if if missed it how old are the children?

omaoma Mon 08-Jul-13 21:55:15

of course it's the responsibility of the harasser not to harass! but if you do a cartwheel or fall over in a skirt, your knickers show. I don't want my DD to have to worry about curtailing physical play because she's not a boy and thus supposed to wear a dress.

mimitwo Mon 08-Jul-13 21:55:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sunshine401 Mon 08-Jul-13 21:55:46

School should ban dresses and skirts??? Really?? That is your answer.. shock.
So when grown women are out they should not be wearing dresses or if they do it gives the boys/men rights to be indecent with her..

RUBBISH!!! OP talk to the Headteacher and get it sorted.

Fairenuff Mon 08-Jul-13 21:59:24

Innocently flashing your knickers doing a cartwheel or any other form of play is very different to being deliberately exposed and made fun of. Children of this age can tell the difference.

FoundAChopinLizt Mon 08-Jul-13 21:59:44

Omoama

I don't get why a little girl wearing a dress should be complicated. My brothers wore kilts to school in primary. No child of either gender should have to dress to protect themselves against harassment.

MrsRochestersCat Mon 08-Jul-13 22:00:22

Omaoma, I understand what you are saying, but i feel it is far more important for DD to make that choice based on her own activities, rather than on the unwanted behaviours of others towards her? Far better deal with those behaviours?

omaoma Mon 08-Jul-13 22:01:10

you note i agreed she should get it sorted with school, that is not an issue.

and no, i don't think adults should curtail their behaviour and dress to avoid sexual assault. i just note that in a school environment where you want kids to run around and be as fit and physical as possible, girls are punished because our cultural and social norms still mean showing your knickers is a huge shaming transgression with horrible sexual overtones, and it is hugely easy for human beings who unfortunately will bully and belittle wherever they are able, to make that happen.
i'll shut up now, sorry to cause offence

letdownafterletdown Mon 08-Jul-13 22:01:36

I had this with my little girl she was so upset by it , I spoke to her teacher and she took it very seriously, the children had carpet time and were told it was not acceptable, his mum was also informed , she was so embarrassed and was so sorry for wot he did . he never did it again . x

omaoma Mon 08-Jul-13 22:03:23

if cotton dresses are so flipping comfy, why aren't the boys wearing them too? this argument that a dress is practical is nonsense. women wearing trousers for comfort and practicality is hardly pushing boundaries, is it?

i deal with the behaviours, STRONGLY, but i would also remove a ridiculous archaic convention which doesn't help.

Carameli Mon 08-Jul-13 22:03:26

like others here I would be so cross if my boys did this to a girl.
I also have a 9yr old girl and would be emailing school immediately and checking in the morning that something is being done about it.

MrsRochestersCat Mon 08-Jul-13 22:05:36

Omaoma, I am sorry to have upset you. I have reasons for being quite passionate about this topic and may take it too far? Please don't take my comments personally. (I'm on my phone I can't remember how to do it: imagine there are flowers here)

MrsRochestersCat Mon 08-Jul-13 22:10:15

I prefer dresses to trousers and shorts, not due to archaic conventions but because it is quicker to throw a dress over my head than match top and bottom, fiddle with buttons and zips....

That said, I would be very disappointed if the school did not permit shorts and trousers. Similarly, I would be disappointed if a school prevented a boy from wearing a dress - but making girls wear shorts won't fix that.

vintagesewingmachine Mon 08-Jul-13 22:11:28

Ughhhh, wrong, wrong, wrong. Your poor DD. That boy needs bringing up short pronto or he will continue to behave in such a way and molest countless other girls...and end up in jail. Speak to the school tomorrow.

fuzzpig Mon 08-Jul-13 22:17:40

Rite of passage?!? What complete and utter bullshit angry

My DD would be gutted if this happened to her.

Glad you are going to approach the school about this. Hope it is dealt with ASAP.

What the fuck was his mother thinking excusing it like that. How could she be anything other than mortified at her 7 year old's behaviour.

As an aside, my DD point blank refuses trousers/shorts for school and will only wear skirts/dresses, but it doesn't seem to inhibit her play or adventurousness at all. Not if her grazed/bruised/grassy legs are anything to go by anyway! smile

thebody Mon 08-Jul-13 23:05:35

Don't get this wearing shorts under a dress?

I don't and certainly don't expect my dds to just as I would have been totally livid and gob smacked if my lads had done this. Disgraceful.

Girls should be able to wear arse skimming skirts or dress like nuns and be left unmolested.

formicadinosaur Mon 08-Jul-13 23:53:49

I think you should tell your teacher all about it. The was wrong.

McNewPants2013 Tue 09-Jul-13 00:06:17

I would tell the teacher, only because this sort of thing will be stopped by it being told to all the children that this behaviour is not permitted. Yr2 is still quite and some parents may not have thought about explaining to children boundrys.

The mother is to blame here.

Stickylittlefingers Tue 09-Jul-13 00:23:34

definitely tell the teacher: the boundaries need to be explained not only in terms of telling kids not to lift dresses etc, but also that your DD and everyone else in the class should never have to put up with anything that makes them feel humiliated, embarrassed or ashamed in that way, and that they should absolutely tell a teacher if something that anyone is doing is making them feel that way. A lot of abuse of children could be avoided if children knew they could go to teachers/parents when they feel like that, and not be worried that they'll be told by some ignorant idiot that it's a "rite of passage" and they're just making a fuss.

You are absolutely right to stick up for your daughter OP, and if in dealing with this incident, this is helpful for some other children, at least it has a bright side.

raisah Tue 09-Jul-13 07:44:55

A boy did this to my sister & she punched him in the face. He was so shocked he burst into tears & told the teacher who told him it served him right as he should not have pulled her skirt yet.

That stupid mum will be saying that rape is a right of passage is she thinks skirt lifting is a right of passage.

cory Tue 09-Jul-13 07:52:08

a) This is not a perversion as some posters have claimed: from the little boy's pov it is just a silly game. It doesn't mean he is a sexual pervert who will end in jail.

b) However, like a lot of other silly games that young children like to do (e.g. hitting each other over the head with large sticks) it is not acceptable and the school needs to put a stop to it now.

c) Wearing shorts won't solve the problem (boys pull down each other's shorts); firm handling by the school, and the threat of punishment, will solve the problem.

PicardyThird Tue 09-Jul-13 08:00:09

What cory said. Those of you who are painting a future as a serial sexual harasser or worse for this boy are OTT and out of order tbh. Little boys are children and children are not to be demonised. - but I do see a lot of demonising of little boys on MN, sadly.

However, the boy does need to have it made very clear to him that it is not acceptable to do this or similar to any child, girl or boy (and yes, this kind of thing does happen to boys too). I have two sons and if one of them had done this (which tbh I can't imagine either of them doing) there would be an appropriate sanction, if none had been applied at school, and a calm and serious talk about others' (as well as his own) personal and physical autonomy, plus a gentle probe as to whether someone else had done something like that to him. He would also have to apologise to the other child.

Putting shorts/leggings etc under your dds' dresses sends entirely the wrong message IMO - it sends the message that girls can/should avoid harassment by adapting the way they dress sad

PicardyThird Tue 09-Jul-13 08:03:06

And could we please stop this revolting habit, which seems to have taken hold on here, of referring to little children as 'little shits'. This boy's behaviour was absolutely out of line, but hearing a child, any child, referred to in this way turns my stomach.

Fairenuff Tue 09-Jul-13 08:09:50

if cotton dresses are so flipping comfy, why aren't the boys wearing them too? this argument that a dress is practical is nonsense. women wearing trousers for comfort and practicality is hardly pushing boundaries, is it?

I agree. But girls have the advantage of choice. They can wear skirts, dresses, trousers or shorts. Boys only have the choice of trousers and shorts. In hot weather like this, the dresses are far cooler and more comfortable to wear. Most of the Year 2 girls in my school choose to wear dresses at the moment. They are not as practical for play but, at that age, accidently showing underwear doesn't matter and is not a problem for most children.

Being deliberately exposed is different. And that can happen no matter what the child is wearing.

Also, it's not just boys that do this, girls sometimes lift others' dresses too. But schools are very aware of this and will deal with it. It won't be the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. But schools are there to teach so much more than numeracy and literacy. They will take it seriously and they will speak with the boy and possibly his parents.

TigerSwallowTail Tue 09-Jul-13 10:27:09

Something similar happened to my son in year 2 too, another boy pulled his trousers down in the playground infront of everyone and laughed at him. It was taken very seriously, the boy was taken to his teacher and spoken to, then the head teacher spoke to him and explained how unacceptable it was, the boy had to apologise, the boys mother was informed at the end of the day, ds's teacher explained to ds that it was unacceptable of the boy and wouldn't happen again, and both me and dp were also informed and reassured that steps were taken to prevent it happening again.

This is completely unacceptable and the mother shouldn't have brushed it off, he made your dd feel awful and the school should be informed.

sarahtigh Tue 09-Jul-13 11:53:18

to say girls should not wear skirts/ school dresses to avoid this is a bit like saying girls women should not wear short clothes unless they want to be raped, more victim blaming

I just prefer skirts and dresses; in the summer they are much cooler than trousers/ shorts actually i prefer skirts all the time I just find them more comfy it is personally preference and to be perfectly honest unless rock climbing or mountain biking I do not find it prevents me from doing anything

happyyonisleepyyoni Tue 09-Jul-13 11:56:32

OP hope you have spoken to the teacher and that the boy has been dealt with.

Your poor DD sad

allmycats Tue 09-Jul-13 11:56:52

Have a word with the teacher - it seems that the boy's parent is also in need of some education.

Feminine Tue 09-Jul-13 12:00:49

Its totally wrong. I remember having it done in primary back in the 70's!

I don't think it indicates any thing more serious than a badly behaved boy, who forgot how to behave.

Its not sinister but typical , if the boy has not been taught to behave respectfully.

mrs I don't see the sexual abuse connection. If so, then nearly all the boys in class A (1976) were being subjected to it.

Fairenuff Tue 09-Jul-13 17:09:37

Any update OP. Did you manage to speak with the teacher. Hope your dd is feeling a bit better about it all today.

LilacPeony Tue 09-Jul-13 22:12:06

I don't think that people have demonised little boys in general or said he is going to be a serial sexual harasser or worse. But people have reacted strongly as this particular boy didn't just lift up her dress, but laughed at her knickers, then told lots of his friends what he had done so they were laughing at her, then stopped her and her friends on the way home and made fun of her again, telling them all about her knickers. On top of that the mum and her friend tried to make out the OP was making a fuss about nothing. It's not just silly, typical behaviour. It's pretty unpleasant but i don't see where people have demonised all little boys.

imademarion Tue 09-Jul-13 23:53:08

Totally unacceptable.

Would also agree to involving school immediately.

Nasty cowardly little boys like that, unchecked, grow up into disgusting men.

thatisall Wed 10-Jul-13 02:06:21

Your poor dd! I'd be straight into school with this one to be honest. Even quicker if I thought it was 'the done thing there'. I know the head of my dd's school would have a fit if she heard this, What sort of message is this boys mother sending him?? Shocking

NapaCab Wed 10-Jul-13 02:22:05

As you say OP, you don't let your daughter pull boys' trousers down to laugh at their underwear. So why should your DD expect that treatment as a so-called rite of passage? That boy needs to be taught some boundaries and respect for others' wishes.

I guess all you can do is have a word with teacher since the boy's mother is delusional.

xylem8 Wed 10-Jul-13 05:21:44

my seven year old dd has had problems with other girls making fun oe her pants when they were getting changed for pe so i don t think it is just a any thing

xylem8 Wed 10-Jul-13 05:22:40

boy thing

PicardyThird Wed 10-Jul-13 06:19:24

Lilac, there is a post a little above mine that says the boy if not dealt with in a presumably draconian punitive manner 'will' (not might, will) 'molest countless other girls... and end up in jail'. It's not the only post in a similar vein.
I am not claiming this boy's actions are OK - far from it -, and I think his mother has some really, really worrying ideas if she considers it a rite of passage that girls have to put up with sad If one of my sons had done this I would, as I have said, tackle it decisively and appropriately to their age and understanding. But what I am seeing here, and on other threads, is a concerning level of condemnation of what is, after all, a child who, if dealt with appropriately, could learn a valuable lesson and not repeat the behaviour.

I do think boys in general get a rough time on here, from some people's very evident preferences for a girl/gender disappointment to this sort of thing. And it's never girls who are referred to as (ugh) 'little shits' (although the whole 'stroppy little madam' thing some girls get isn't a great deal better).

PicardyThird Wed 10-Jul-13 06:23:37

Anyway, OP, sorry for mini-hijack <climbs off soapbox>. YANBU to feel upset both at what happened and at the mother's reaction, which, if I read your OP correctly, is what bothers you almost more. If I had been the mum in your scenario I would have called my son over, made him apologise to your dd there and then, and told both children that nobody is allowed to expose and make fun of others' underwear and nobody should have to put up with it.

threesypeesy Wed 10-Jul-13 08:06:22

That is awful your poor daughter. It most certainly is not a right of passage! The mother's reaction really gets me, what hope does he have if that's her attitude.

Dd and a few other girls had this done in school 2 year's ago and after we all complained the little boy was excluded for a week and quite rightly so it is a massive invasion of personal space and privacy.

Hope your dd is ok op. And second the suggestions of little shorts umder her skirt if it makes her feel more comfortable.

I hope that you have been into the school and complained, OP. Let us know how you get on. I think they would take it very seriously, have a quiet, serious word with the individual in question, have his mother in for a "chat" and also have a general talk with the whole school about appropriate and inappropriate behaviour (without any names being mentioned). I hope that they do explain to this incredibly stupid woman, exactly why what her DS did was totally inappropriate and why her reaction was ridiculous. Any school that accepted that this is a "rite of passage" would be totally out of order and if they tried to defend it (which they won't) I would be taking it further.

LilacPeony Wed 10-Jul-13 11:54:12

Picardy if this post had been about a little girl mocking the child's pants and getting others to join in I can guarantee that at least one person would have replied to say that girls can be absolute bitches, so it does work both ways. Maybe people tend to notice nasty comments about the sex of child they have more. (I have girls.)

WilsonFrickett Wed 10-Jul-13 12:07:57

Of course this mother was in th wrong, hopefully she was caught on the hop though and her instinct was to minimise things. And she'll realise when she gets home that she needs to deal with this behaviour very firmly. it is NOT a rite of passage.

Definitely speak to the teacher. They won't necessarily punish the behaviour, but they'll do some work on boundaries, how we play,

aldiwhore Wed 10-Jul-13 12:11:41

I think it's normal behaviour but that doesn't make it right behaviour and certainly doesn't mean it should be left.

The kissing dare game happened at my sons' school (my youngest is five) and whilst it was all silly innocent cheeky fun, it was also a very good time to talk about social boundaries and appropriate behaviour.

In the first instance it needs to be tackled gently with no child being demonised, but it certainly needs to be tackled.

prettybird Wed 10-Jul-13 12:24:38

I think what is shock is the mother's attitude that it was "just" a right of passage hmmshock

That is not teaching appropriate boundaries to her son sad

These things do happen, but good schools and parents would work hard to ensure that the children learn to respect each other. One would have though that by Y2, a child would know that it was not nice to upset someone else and that what they were doing was wrong but if their parent doesn't provide that example and reinforcement..... hmm They are not going to learn that it's not something they should do and yes, in later years, could end up sexually harassing women without even realising it is wrong.

mimitwo - I am sure that the school will be equally disconcerted and will be talking to all the children about silly games like this. Let us know how you get on.

BTW: I don't think you should even suggest to your dd that she wear shorts under her dress. If she wants to wear shorts on their own, fair enough, but wearing shorts under a dress purely to protect against someone else's actions.... it is just teaching her that she is somehow responsible for the embarassment. sad

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Wed 10-Jul-13 12:36:03

I hope you managed to talk to a teacher today. The mothers reaction is really worrying, she's teaching him it's ok to invade little girls boundaries... Not ok.

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