To point out that the word is 'being' not 'been'

(153 Posts)
Thisvehicleisreversing Sun 07-Jul-13 23:28:00

I've read a number of posts over the last few days where a poster has used 'been' when they've meant 'being'

It's annoying. So there.

juneybean Sun 07-Jul-13 23:30:08

Oh yes, a nursery I worked in had a file for parents to look at "Look at what we have being doing" so it works both ways!

Numberlock Sun 07-Jul-13 23:30:17

Can you give an example of context?

BackforGood Sun 07-Jul-13 23:30:47

Do you know something? Some people just type quickly and press post. We don't sit and proof read things as we would if it were going on a job application or a poster to go on display or something else. This is a website on which to 'chat' not write formal documents.
So sorry to have offended you but I'm still not going to proof read everything I@ve typed before pressing post

<Ooh look - another mistake>

picnicbasketcase Sun 07-Jul-13 23:30:51

Human been?

WorraLiberty Sun 07-Jul-13 23:34:37

YANBU

Someone on my Facebook always confuses the two words and it takes heroic strength on my part to scroll past and not point it out grin

"The kids are been annoying"

"Been as though you asked..."

<< Cries real tears >>

MrsMook Sun 07-Jul-13 23:38:11

My husband's terrible on that one. He just doesn't hear the difference in the two words to know which to write. I often have to proof read documents for him to get decent grammar before he can get them proof read for technical accuarcy.

HotCrossPun Sun 07-Jul-13 23:44:58

I was going to say YABU.

Then I remembered the irritation that I used to feel when my brothers girlfriend always said 'his' wrongly.

She'd say - Would you hand DN he's dummy?

angry

Alisvolatpropiis Mon 08-Jul-13 17:51:52

Yanbu.

Typos happen though obviously.

Can we talk about people using defiantly rather than definitely? This is a smartphone autocorrect thing. My Facebook (I know,I know) is littered with it.

Can be unintentionally hilarious though.

Even worse is "lose" and "loose", and it's not just on chat pages! Drives me round the bend! and double negatives angry arghhh!! People who say "I don't have none" or "I don't know nothing" [stressed emoticon]

HooverFairy Tue 09-Jul-13 19:46:29

YANBU this particular error irritates me so much! The lose and loose one can almost be forgiven but HotCross, how did you manage not to strangle her? That's a ridiculous mistake!

One person I'm friends with on Facebook writes 'paniced' instead of 'panicked', really unreasonably winds me up.

How can you say that "lose" and "loose" can almost be forgiven [faints]???

AKAK81 Wed 10-Jul-13 09:06:24

I see this often along with seen instead of seeing. Its useful in that you know you're dealing with a moron.

I just don't care. I will use which ever my fingers type so there

<blows raspberry at thread>

Been been been been been been been been been been been been been been been

MalcolmTuckersMum Wed 10-Jul-13 09:09:52

I keep saying this and nobody answers - 'lose' and 'loose' don't even begin to sound the same so how does anyone make this mistake without real effort? grin
As for 'been' and 'being' yes, noticed a lot of it lately so YANBU
I don't understand why these threads always bring out the 'it doesn't matter' contingent. It does matter. Of course it matters. It's our language and it's not up to you to change it.

<<<blows hot piss steam out of ears and cries some tears with worra>>>

Goldmandra Wed 10-Jul-13 09:14:30

My DD brought a piece of homework marked by a teacher a few months ago. The comment on the bottom was

"You could of drawn more pictures to illustrate your design."

shock

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MalcolmTuckersMum Wed 10-Jul-13 09:16:16

shock - Gold when the teachers are making these mistakes you realise it really is too late to fix this.

LuisSuarezTeeth Wed 10-Jul-13 09:17:42

We're only human beans. May I respectfully point you in the direction of Pedants' Corner? grin

Hah you will hate I bin to the new cinema, eeek!

Arrianne Wed 10-Jul-13 10:22:19

I loathe could of instead of could have. It is everywhere. As for not checking.....So lazy. Yes I am pedantic. Oh and I hate it when people ask if they can lend something from me. I say no but you can borrow it.

Wahla Wed 10-Jul-13 10:31:19

Round here everybody says done instead of did. "I done it yesterday" - argh!

I think some of the confusion with lose and lose is that choose rhymes with lose but looks like loose, IYSWIM.

NinaJade666 Wed 10-Jul-13 11:15:43

I won him - No, you won. (Or you beat him)

I brought a shirt from Next - BOUGHT FFS!

The fact that teachers are making these mistakes just makes me want to scream. angry

Goldmandra Wed 10-Jul-13 11:24:22

I nearly raised it as I have a lot of meetings with the staff at the moment about managing DD2's SN. Then I realised I didn't think I could raise it without sounding patronising and critical which I really don't want to do while they are being so helpful.

I have to wonder how anyone could get through a degree without getting the basics right.

EvieanneVolvic Wed 10-Jul-13 11:26:04

"Been as though you asked..."

Oh Worra !!!!! <hugs>

That is just dreadful! Not even close.

<stops shrieking> Okay typos happen but there are typos and there are typos and there is treating language as though it's an optional bonus!

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating Wed 10-Jul-13 11:26:53

You didn't put a full stop at the end of your sentence. That's annoying!

EvieanneVolvic Wed 10-Jul-13 11:27:00

while they are being so helpful

Not while they are been so helpful???? grin Mandra

ShowOfHands Wed 10-Jul-13 11:29:29

I was sat...

<weeps>

NinaJade666 Wed 10-Jul-13 11:33:06

Goldmandra It's called spell check

A friend of mine is an SEN teaching assistant after 2 years of online courses. Her language and mathematics skills are poor. If she was in charge of my child's education I would be horrified.

Personally I think she blagged the interview to get the job with her good looks and very good people skills. She's very good at 'getting what she wants'.

Oooh.. that last bit sounded bitchy grin

Goldmandra Wed 10-Jul-13 11:35:25

Goldmandra It's called spell check

True but even then you have to look at what it's highlighting and decide whether to change it. Don't people learn from those mistakes?

Maybe not.

HelgaHufflepuff Wed 10-Jul-13 11:39:02

YANBU.

Someone on my FB keeps confusing 'board' with 'bored'. It's getting on my nerves.
"I'm board." hmm
It's taking all my strength not to type something back like "yes, you are a bit plank like."
must sit on hands

Lose and loose.
Could of winds me up too. I usually end up shouting at the laptop. " Could HAVE!"
think I'd fit right in the Pedants corner grin

LilacPeony Wed 10-Jul-13 11:45:29

I don't like "You could of" either.

NeeeNawwwNeeeNawww Wed 10-Jul-13 11:52:18

I don't think people do learn with spell check. It allows laziness.

"I don't need to be learned I got spell check innit"

LittleMissGerardButlerfan Wed 10-Jul-13 11:55:36

YANBU, I hate the their, they're and there mistakes.

I know some people can't help it, and some people don't care and I wouldn't correct them or say anything but Arrrrrgh! angry

furiously checks spelling

DarkWinter Wed 10-Jul-13 12:24:56

Would HAVE. Should HAVE. Could HAVE!

NOT OF, YOU MORONS.

MrsMelons Wed 10-Jul-13 12:35:09

Of instead of have is the worst. I see board instead of bored lots on FB, all variations of there used incorrectly and lose/loose is ridiculous (not a well structured sentence I know!)

I understand spelling mistakes as often on the internet it is just chat and we don't necessarily spell check or it could just be typos but basic grammar should be natural surely?

FloweryOwl Wed 10-Jul-13 12:47:09

My mother wrote a note for my brother in his planner the other day so he could be excused from P.E.

'Sam can't do p.e today HAS he has broken his toe'

FGS mum.

Heartbrokenmum73 Wed 10-Jul-13 12:51:11

There was a TA at my Mum's school who was working with a group of low-achieving literacy pupils. One week she gave them all certificates to take home. She'd made them on the pc and printed them off. They said 'Your a Star'. My Mum was horrified.

I can shrug it off on Facebook and on here, tbh, but when it's someone assisting with literacy and they're not literate themselves, yeah, that's a big problem.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 12:53:44

I'm really trying to give a flying fuck, but I don't. Sorry.

I think this thread is unpleasant and judgy and childish.

LackaDAISYcal Wed 10-Jul-13 13:02:43

my otherwise lovely DH uses commas instead of apostophes...so they,re instead of they're <chews fists>

Lose, loose....don't go near the weight loss threads, whatever you do! Lots of loosing of pounds going on!

hate, hate, hate would of, should of, could of with a passion. And "off of" instead of "from" or just "off" eg That actor "off of" Coronation Street or get "off of" the bed....aaarrrggghhhh!

I must admit that my text messages need some attention at times! grin I find that predictive text makes the most absurd typos ever. and I quite often press "send" before checking blush. At least they are very obviously predictive text errors rather than laziness as such.

SneezySnatcher Wed 10-Jul-13 13:15:07

Nina I came on to say I hate 'brought' instead of 'bought'.

And 'led' instead of 'laid' e.g. "I led him on the bed".

And 'could of' instead of 'could have'.

OP, YANBU to think it, as long as you don't pull anyone up on it.

RalphGnu Wed 10-Jul-13 13:20:14

I agree with LRD. Let's take the piss out of people because they don't use apostrophes correctly and spell words incorrectly. Lazy peasants.

Goldmandra Wed 10-Jul-13 13:23:41

I think typos are different. It's fine to type fast then press post without proof reading on MN because, as people say, it isn't a job application.

Mistakes which you are aware you have made are one thing but these 'could of' isn't a typo. It's a fundamental lack of understanding of the language you are using.

Having said that, I'm sure I've made plenty of grammatical errors posting on here without realising smile

RalphGnu I agree that we shouldn't take the mickey out of people who make genuine mistakes but my son has a t-shirt (expensive make) where the message uses "loose" instead of "lose". That is ridiculous! what is more embarrassing is that he didn't even notice until I pointed it out!

CuChullain Wed 10-Jul-13 13:27:13

While we are on the subject can some people stop spelling 'disgusting' as 'discusting', it really makes you look very stupid.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 13:33:35

gold - not necessarily, though.

It could just be that, for you, 'could've' and 'could of' are homophones, just as 'been' and 'being' are in some accents.

It is very easy to mistype one homophone for another (I can easily type 'witch' for 'which'). That's why the language changes and grammar changes with it. So, for some people, 'could of' is what they've heard all their lives and they don't know it's not standard grammar.

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 13:33:51

It may seem trivial and petty but after a while, this sort of laziness becomes so ingrained that people can no longer express what they wish to. Someone recently sent me a message with no punctuation at all, it was merely a string of words that then made no sense. I couldn't tell whether they were responding positively or negatively to me at all. The very reason we have punctuation, spelling etc is to make clear what we mean, to aid us in communicating - a pretty key part of life. English is already confusing, so add in poor spelling and grammatical mistakes and eventually things get awfully clouded. You shouldn't have to fish about for the meaning unless you're reading huge philosophical texts.

I've never come across the replacement of 'being' with 'been' oddly, but lately I've noticed people saying 'The thing is, is that...'. Why do they add an extra word which is THE SAME AS THE PREVIOUS WORD? The word 'to' (and/or 'the') is starting to be dropped when talking about going somewhere - 'I'm going shop'.

MrsPercyPig Wed 10-Jul-13 13:37:35

This thread is really nasty.

Do these things seriously wind you up? I really would suggest getting out more or finding a hobby or something.

People aren't making mistakes to wind others up, they are making mistakes because they don't know they are incorrect.

The people criticising other people's mistakes sound like nasty bullies.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 13:37:35

It's not necessarily 'laziness', la.

I can understand why we need punctuation and spelling, and I agree it's really important to write clearly (I would say more for huge philosophical texts, personally).

But I think doing the King Canute thing of standing on the edge letting your toes get wet and yelling 'go back, go back' is a bit of a lost cause. And I think that it's important to understand why people do these things instead of just having a go or pretending it's 'laziness'.

'I'm going shop' is a phrase substantially older than living memory. Dropping 'the' is quite common, and most accents replace it with a glottal stop. If you've not come across it before, listen out for it and you should be able to hear it.

HelgaHufflepuff Wed 10-Jul-13 13:54:41

Ooh just remembered another one!
Gawjus. I mean, what the *k?! Do people really think that's the way to spell gorgeous or is it some kind of new fangled trendy spelling?!
It gives me an irrational rage when I see it, I can't help it!

VodkaRevelation Wed 10-Jul-13 13:55:31

Is it that you use been because your fingers just type it SP or is it that you don't know the difference?

Been is not the same word as being so when it is used instead of being it renders a sentence senseless! If I found out I was making such a huge error I would be embarassed. I don't get this whole pride in not giving a shit about correct language use.

Typos are one thing. Consistent errors, especially when you find out you have been making a mistake are something else.

For those who are happy making such mistakes, would you mind if your child's teacher made them too?

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 13:58:54

I'm not proud or happy about it, vodka, I'm just not proud of being judgy and ignorant about why people do make mistakes.

Personally, I am blessed with more than one braincell so don't fail to understand when someone substitutes 'been' for 'being'. It might give me a bit of a pause, but then I would work it out. Obviously, it's not ideal, and obviously, teachers and anyone trying to communicate clearly should try very hard to avoid this sort of error.

I used to be embarrassed whenever I made mistakes, and I still am sometimes. But increasingly I've realized that the sorts of people who make a big fuss about it aren't making a fuss because they care about me and want to help, or because they have a much better understanding of the English language than I do - they're doing it because they enjoy the process of putting other people down.

HelgaHufflepuff Wed 10-Jul-13 14:00:03

This thread is really nasty.

Do these things seriously wind you up? I really would suggest getting out more or finding a hobby or something.

I don't think it's a nasty thread, and I'm usually a lovely person! smile
OK, fair enough if you can't help being bad at spelling. Not everyone is good at it.
You can't seriously tell me that so many people are so consistently bad though. Oh and yes, people do get wound up by atrocious spelling.
I do. I can't explain. If being passionate about the English language makes me need to get out more then so be it. grin
furiously checks own post for typos

MumnGran Wed 10-Jul-13 14:12:33

I have no inclination to be judgemental but must admit to being driven to distraction by seeing words spelt incorrectly, and the use of atrocious grammar.

"sat" v "sitting"
"wernt"
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

Whilst we are on the subject, when did 'fucking' become an adjective and pre-requisite for every third sentence?

<<contemplates taking OCD self-diagnosis test >>

minouminou Wed 10-Jul-13 15:11:44

Do not get me started.

I don't usually point out mistakes unless it's a professional matter, but I'm having to bite my knuckles at one of my relatives on FB. This woman brays about her various high-level jobs and name/brand drops at every opportunity in what I can only describe as pidgin English.

I will, however, leap on teachers' mistakes at school. A recent example from a report is: "(MM's DS) has a lot of empaphy...."

You can tell when it's a typo and when it's either just laziness or a bad judgement call. When someone says it doesn't matter as long as the message is delivered, you have to explain that we have standardised English to stop the language fraying to the point at which that message will be difficult to decipher.

Dunno if it's true about Shakespeare having 30-odd different ways of spelling his name, but that's the example I use.

I can also spot classic dyslexic mistakes, and they get an instant pass.

I have a friend who constantly & unfailingly confuses off & of when writing. Annoys the hell out of me hmmconfused

MumnGran Wed 10-Jul-13 15:19:13

"Dunno" ??
grin grin grin

minouminou Wed 10-Jul-13 15:27:03

'Dunno' is in several dictionaries and is a well-known contraction of 'don't know'. ;)
I use it occasionally, online and in RL, to appear friendly.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 16:07:43

I can understand getting distracted or finding things hard to follow - I do think that is different and very understandable.

DuckworthLewis Wed 10-Jul-13 18:38:48

What it boils down to, is that some people are better educated than others.

The (main) reason that they are better educated is due to a better start in life, being brought up with parents who value 'correct' grammar/spelling/punctuation etc. . .

This is entirely an accident of birth and nothing at all to do with that person as an individual.

Looking down your nose at someone who fate has not been as kind to as it was to you is unkind and says a lot more about you than it does them.

Shame on you.

DuckworthLewis Wed 10-Jul-13 18:40:29

Frankly, I'd take a kind, considerate, compassionate, inspirational person over a sneery, judgmental, unkind one (albeit with perfect grammar) any day.

x2boys Wed 10-Jul-13 19:18:15

I cant stand it when people ask me if I will borrow them something no I will lend you it and then you will have borrowed it!?

abbscrosswoman Wed 10-Jul-13 19:20:14

I am not judging anybody but must admit that I find the incorrect use of 'was' irritating.

ie 'was you going to call me today ?'

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 19:20:19

I really don't give a toss.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 19:22:13

I confused of and off today in a post on MN.

Bet some of you wet yourselves when you read it.

I don't look down on that friend, or anyone else, actually. I just get annoyed at the misuse of the words.

Totally different than looking down on someone I think

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 19:34:12

Oh well,you can be safe in the knowledge that you are oh so clever.

At least I know who to avoid on MN.

valiumredhead Wed 10-Jul-13 19:34:20

I bet they are posting from their phone,I annoy my SELF with the number of typos I makehmm

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 19:37:32

Bingo.

There's always one.

I don't quite understand why anyone would want to post about what a pedant they are, secure in the knowledge they'll look a twit as soon as they slip up.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 19:40:13

My kindle does what the hell it likes. Puts in apostrophes,leaves them out.Changes words.

I cba to check every bloody post I make on here in case it offends some clever dick.

I haven't slipped up

Off and of have totally different contexts, why wouldn't it be annoying to have them mixed up in sentences?

I don't look down on my friend for mixing them up, I just find it annoying. The same as I would if I was reading a book.

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 20:43:51

I've taught in 4 different educational institutions, including large classes of SEN students. I'm not talking about mistakes made by those who genuinely don't know they've made them, or typos. I see these mistakes from those with 'good educations' and no learning disabilities. In that context, laziness is an appropriate assumption. I do not judge people on this basis but I do wonder why they value their language skills so little.

Generally the people who make genuine mistakes don't mind being corrected if and when appropriate.

I'm terribly mathematical challenged and if someone corrects me then that's good - there's right and wrong in maths for obvious reasons. There's also right and wrong in English and although the reasons may seem less consequential, they are still important, otherwise why do we teach it in schools?

Whilst marking academic essays my superior told me to mark foreign students down for poor English but not those who had perfectly good English skills, yet chose to write in slang. I refused and marked them all according to academic guidelines. Some had quite obviously just submitted awful work and then not even bothered with spell checking. I'm not sure how that can be excused if someone professes to be serious about their education.

Language is no different to appearance as a signifier of intent, so we should arm ourselves with knowledge as much as we can surely? I think we're all able to tell when poor language/literacy is a product of poor education and when it's just laziness.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 20:47:42

I'm quite happy to admit to writing lazy English on a chat forum.

I don't look down on people who misuse words, but I do find it irritating.

The current ubiquitous misuse which irritates the hell out of me is 'invite'.

Damn it! Invite is a VERB!! The word you mean is 'invitation'. Grrr!!

cardibach Wed 10-Jul-13 20:58:35

I'm not being sneery or judgemental - I'm an English teacher, so noticing and correcting these things is what I get paid for and I like to think I do it sensitively. I just don't get 'I'm on a chat forum so I don't care' as a reason - I couldn't type something I knew to be incorrect (although I am a shit typist so you will see many, many typos) and I don't see that it is harder/takes longer to get it right. In the end, sloppy English helps nobody - how can those who struggle improve if there are no good role models?
THese things matter.

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 21:00:53

Yes Usual, that's been covered previously. But in other contexts it contributes to those who don't have good English skills continuing to make genuine mistakes. As people have said, it's pretty obvious when people actually don't know they're wrong.

It's happening increasingly on the BBC, on news programmes, in newspapers etc. Not just on chat forums.

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 21:01:41

And exactly what Cardibach said!

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 21:04:09

lala, I assume with your standard of English you're being sarcastic?

Otherwise, your students must be quite angry at your hypocritical attitude.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 21:05:42

having - if you haven't slipped up, care to explain how punctuation is your friend? Or should we only judge US English on a UK forum?

See, one could be pedantic for days. It's silly. It make people feel shit. We're not here to write grammatical treatises, so why not be a bit kinder to people?

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 21:12:10

I don't care if I get it wrong on here.

It doesn't matter.

It's a bit of chit chat,nothing more.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 21:14:10

I don't care if I get it wrong on here.

I care that some people are happy to judge when I know there will be people who do care and feel awful.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 21:19:18

Yes,iswym,LRD.

Not nice to think people would be put off posting if their spelling doesn't come up to stratch.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 21:20:19

Or scratch grin

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 21:20:40

Yeah, or would post thinking it was ok and then would read this and feel a bit crap. Especially since the OP is about posters, it does feel a bit pointed.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 21:21:21

grin

See, I didn't even misread that - I just read it as 'scratch'. Does that say my spelling is shit or my clairvoyance is impressive? Who knows.

raisah Wed 10-Jul-13 21:22:42

Loosing instead of losing

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 22:29:28

Sorry LRD, I don't follow? My attitude is that I want to teach people good language skills.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 22:34:43

People don't use MN to be taught good lanquage skills.

This op was about posters on MN, not your students.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 22:38:32

The OP is talking about posters, ie., people chatting on here.

Your post is riddled with basic errors.

You claim you want to teach people good language skills.

Now, I want to do that too (believe it or not). But I don't start out by assuming I can tell who's being 'lazy' in their errors and who isn't. If I did, I'd surely conclude your errors must be the 'lazy' variety since you claim to be qualified to correct the mistakes made by other people. Yet, if your errors result from laziness, how is it not hypocritical to agree with the OP, who is judging posters on this forum?

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 22:39:37

Cross post.

What usual said was true too, and probably more to the point.

God knows I try to teach my students good English, but I don't start out by assuming I can call them 'lazy' and get a good result.

you are been unreasonable grin

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 22:45:40

You said it so much better than me,LRD.grin

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 23:02:44

I missed the rule stating threads must never expand organically or mention anything other than what the OP said...

LRD referred to my students Usual, I was answering that. I never called my students lazy, I thought I'd made that clear. I never called anyone lazy actually. Feel free to point out my basic errors - I'm not too proud to learn grin. I never claimed to be an English teacher, but yes I'd like to aid foreign and SEN students in their understanding of English as much as I can. There is a difference between correcting words that are wrong and the real nitty gritty stuff I imagine you're about to point out to me. I only went to a state school after all wink.

I also did make a big point about use in the context of forums. I'm a little bemused as to why you're sticking it to me so emphatically when many others have been openly critical of language used in chat.

ParadiseChick Wed 10-Jul-13 23:05:06

That'll learn ya.

DuckworthLewis Wed 10-Jul-13 23:06:03

Language changes over time; spelling, meaning, all of it really.

Many of the words and idioms that we use today meant something very different when they were first defined. People have used them 'incorrectly' for so many years that their new usage has become standard.

Whilst it is tempting to think that the evolution of language stopped abruptly when you as an individual ceased formal education, it has continued to evolve, and the English language looks very different now than it did 20 years ago. In fact, I think it quite arrogant to assume that the language that you were taught is the be all and end all.

Whether this is a good or bad thing is another question altogether, but for all the meanings that have been lost, we have also gained many other words that I believe are more relevant to the culture of today.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:10:20

I have no issue with threads expanding organically.

What I do have an issue with is your basic errors. You must know them if you teach literacy. they are simple.

Many posters on this thread made equally basic errors.

I'm bemused as to why you seem to mind 'sticking it to you' when you claimed people who make genuine errors don't mind rude corrections? confused

Maybe now you see why, huh?

'I'm terribly mathematical challenged'

'Language is no different to appearance as a signifier of intent'

Your punctuation has too many errors to quote.

I'm picking holes because I think it's incredibly rude to set yourself up as an authority - especially when you admit you penalized students without authorization, just because you felt like it - when you are making basic errors yourself.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:12:16

I'm not entirely clear why you think 'laziness is an appropriate assumption' is different from calling someone 'lazy', btw. Of course, the former phrase is shit English, but I doubt that was your point.

You did admit you assumed some people were lazy, you know you did.

hellymelly Wed 10-Jul-13 23:16:13

Nothing is as annoying as "would of, should of, could of" WHY people do that? Does it not occur to them it makes no sense? Take out the would from "I would of gone to the shop", you are left with "I of gone to the shop"... What would the negative be, I ofn't? It truly drives me barmy. It is HAVE people. HAVE.

usualsuspect Wed 10-Jul-13 23:21:07

I feel like writing 'could of'all over MN.
There's more moaning about it than posters actually writing it.

DuckworthLewis Wed 10-Jul-13 23:22:37

Hellymelly, a lot of the language that you use every day makes no sense to someone a generation older than you. They find your 'incorrect' use of words irritating. I expect it drives them barmy too.

A little insight wouldn't go amiss here, people...

LisaW456 Wed 10-Jul-13 23:23:55

I have a 'friend' on FB who often updates her status telling us how 'board' she is and how she celebrated 'Farther's Day'. She made the mistake several times so definitely not a typo. The worst part is she's a secondary school teacher.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:25:48

shock

Really, lisa?

Goodness, how can the idiot hold her head up, and a secondary school teacher too. sad

I'm referring, of course, to the fact she keeps someone who sneers at her as a friend.

hellymelly Wed 10-Jul-13 23:31:30

Duckworth..er, no. Half my friends are a generation older, we don't seem to have any problem communicating.

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 23:34:30

LRD - I'm not a literacy teacher and I never said I was!

I said I REFUSED TO PENALISE STUDENTS FOREIGN STUDENTS FOR POOR ENGLISH!!

Thanks for pointing out my mistakes, I'd appreciate it if you'd correct them rather than just telling me I'm wrong.

DuckworthLewis Wed 10-Jul-13 23:34:40

They probably just have better manners that you, and hence wouldn't dream of raising it as an issue with you.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:35:08

Language does change, though. I agree a generation might be overstating things, but certainly if you went back two generations, your granny when she was your age would have spoken very differently from you. It's normal.

DuckworthLewis Wed 10-Jul-13 23:35:15

*than

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 23:38:21

And yes, typos, I know.

I refused to unfairly mark some students down for poor English and not others. Please explain to me why you think that means I judged them? I stuck up for them!!

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:40:05

lala - I did correct you. I quoted the posts. Do you actually need me to go explain why the word in bold is not correct? confused

I'd thank you to read mine properly. You said you penalized students for slang. Yes? Or have you changed your mind about what you did?

You said you'd taught. You described marking students for literacy. I referred to that. Please, do feel free to explain why it was somehow wrong of me to describe this as teaching literacy? Or do you mean, you're somehow entitled to teach badly if it's not your specialism?

Your errors (other than the ones I've pointed out) are mostly missing punctuation, which makes your grammar hard to follow.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:41:34

'Whilst marking academic essays my superior told me to mark foreign students down for poor English but not those who had perfectly good English skills, yet chose to write in slang. I refused and marked them all according to academic guidelines. Some had quite obviously just submitted awful work and then not even bothered with spell checking. I'm not sure how that can be excused if someone professes to be serious about their education.'

This is your post, right here.

sad

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 23:51:04

Exactly. I marked them all according to guidelines. Unless you think it would have been wise to let someone who'd not bothered to read their own work submit a thesis that had the word 'circumcision' instead of 'circumstance' throughout, without pulling them up on it.

LaLaLeni Wed 10-Jul-13 23:52:24

I can't see bold type on my phone by the way. If you mean 'mathematical', that's clearly a typo.

Permanentlyexhausted Wed 10-Jul-13 23:54:34

LaLa's post reads, to me, that her supervisor told her to mark students down for using slang and that she refused. I really can't see where she says she marked students down for using slang.

Now, I don't profess to always use perfect grammar or punctuation but, to my mind, LRD's post criticisng LaLa's punctuation has some rather dubious punctuation itself. I say "to my mind" since the correct use of punctuation is, to some extent, subjective.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:54:57

I thought you said your superior told you how to mark them. And you did differently.

I correct my students for that sort of mistake.

What I don't do is to judge them more harshly than students making other kinds of mistake, because I can recognize that some students struggle in one way, and some in another. Is it possible your superior knew that too?

Something may look like laziness to you - but for that student, it might be that they genuinely found it difficult to proof-read, and they didn't see the mistake as easily as you. As your own posts indicate, it's quite easy to overlook your own mistakes. I don't follow why you think it's ok to decide which students where allowed marks and which weren't on arbitrary criteria.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:56:04

perm - my posts are full of errors. The difference being, I've spent this whole thread trying to explain as best I can why it's not great to judge people for such things. I'm not being a hypocrite. I'm not setting myself up as an authority on trivia when I can't manage myself.

Permanentlyexhausted Wed 10-Jul-13 23:57:28

Okay, I take my first paragraph back. I've re-read LaLa's post (again) and have changed my mind. smile

LRDLearningKnigaBook Wed 10-Jul-13 23:58:47

No, you're right, it's ambiguous, I'm not sure what she meant to say either.

LaLaLeni Thu 11-Jul-13 00:04:34

Marking and teaching are not the same. There are many who mark exams but do not teach the subjects. All academic work has an element of literacy assessment.

DaveMccave Thu 11-Jul-13 00:10:13

This is the error some people make that drives me insane. Always the same posters/people. Def not typos. I don't know why it annoys me so much more than other errors but it really really does. 'I seen' instead of 'I saw' and 'lend me' instead of borrow just doesn't irk me in the same way.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Thu 11-Jul-13 00:10:17

Of course, this is true.

Quite why you wrote 'I've taught' and are now taking issue with the distinction between teaching and marking, I am however unsure ...

ChippingInGoAndyGo Thu 11-Jul-13 00:10:53

Pedants corner >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now do be a dear.

morethanpotatoprints Thu 11-Jul-13 00:16:31

YAbeenU

You might be better educated than some people who do this, it may not be their fault.
It is a small thing to be bothered about. Try pedants corner.

nennypops Thu 11-Jul-13 00:23:59

I think failing to make a bit of an effort to write correctly is basic bad manners, and also bad policy. It's bad manners because in effect you are telling people that you can't be bothered to try to write clearly for them and you expect them to go out of their way to try to understand you. It's bad policy because, if you want to make a point, you will fail; if I am reading a post and suddenly come up against "been" instead of "being" or "could of", it instantly brings me up short and distracts me, so that I lose the thread of the comment completely.

It's particularly unacceptable in teachers. I remember going into my ds' school and seeing a large poster with the words "Standing on the shoulder's of giant's". Hundreds of children were going to be filing past that every day, thinking that that usage of apostrophes must be correct. It seems to me to be incredibly irresponsible to let that sort of thing stay on display.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Thu 11-Jul-13 00:27:19

I agree with that, nenny.

But I'm not sure how anyone can tell who makes an effort and who doesn't?

Thisvehicleisreversing Thu 11-Jul-13 09:26:27

I really don't get this "perhaps you've had a better education than others"

We live in a country with free education for all. English is taught at schools as standard. If you don't get taught well at school then are these things called books which you can take out of free libraries.

You don't need to go to Eton to know that 'been' instead of 'being' or 'of' instead of 'have' is wrong.

usualsuspect Thu 11-Jul-13 09:52:22

You don't need to go to Eton to know it's rude to take the piss out of other peoples spelling on a chat forum.

Or label them thick and morons as some charmers have done on this thread.

I'd take manners over spelling any day.

DuckworthLewis Thu 11-Jul-13 10:44:50

We live in a country with free education for all. English is taught at schools as standard. If you don't get taught well at school then are these things called books which you can take out of free libraries.

<<bangs head on desk>>

I really worry about this country when I hear people spouting rubbish like this, I really do.

Do you mind if I ask how old you are OP?

Pinkponiesrock Thu 11-Jul-13 10:44:55

What are yous doing today?

Makes me feel a bit sick!

usualsuspect Thu 11-Jul-13 10:49:52

How can words make you feel sick?

How odd.

DuckworthLewis Thu 11-Jul-13 10:51:16

All that smugness can get a bit nauseating, I guess

usualsuspect Thu 11-Jul-13 11:13:45

True dat grin

Words make you sick?! Strange.

I came here to chat shit and maybe hand out advice now and again. My spelling and grammar AINT important

grin

Seriously though. I dont possess the ability to give a flying giraffe about this.

I bid thee farewell

towerofjelly Thu 11-Jul-13 11:31:36

I am not fantastic at spelling and grammar but feel I get by. My DH is terrible and he knows it and I feel had he gone to school in more recent times he would probably of been given a lot more help. My point is that it is not his intention to annoy the S&G nazzis and often avoids training days and such in fear of the red pen. He won't fill a form in for the sane reason. Get your heads out your arses there are so much more to people than what they do or don't write.

KatoPotato Thu 11-Jul-13 11:33:02

Sometimes I love been a part time worker!

Seems as how I'm off today...

Nuggets from my timeline...

usualsuspect Thu 11-Jul-13 11:44:57

My DP is the same,towerofjelly.

he was labelled thick at school,so left at 14,
.
He's always worked though,but dreads training days.

Thisvehicleisreversing Thu 11-Jul-13 12:38:51

DuckworthLewis I'm 33.

TuftyFinch Thu 11-Jul-13 14:34:36

I taught a woman, who at the age of 40, couldn't spell the names of het children. She also couldn't read them a bed time story.
She was neither lazy or thick. She attended a school in the Uk from 6-16.
When I taught het, over the space of 1 year, to 'learn' the spellings of her children's names she wrote them both a Christmas card- the first she had ever written. We both cried.
Feeling you're better than someone else based on a natural ability to learn how to spell and write helps no one.
I'm the fastest runner in the world but it doesn't make me better than you.

hellymelly Thu 11-Jul-13 16:39:49

So just how does finding "would of" annoying equate to bad manners? I am very polite in general.. smile Anyway slang or colloqualisms in speech, which all of us use, vary with generations, and which are social glue in many ways, are quite different from writing something down in english that makes no sense whatsoever.

DuckworthLewis Thu 11-Jul-13 17:10:25

hellymelly I am aware that I am generalising here, but it has been my experience that as you go up the socio-economic scale, grammatical/syntactical/muddled homophone errors such as you point out tend to decrease in frequency.

It has also been my experience that individuals have very little control over their own socio-economic status; contrary to popular belief, we are not all born equal and social mobility is much less liquid than The Daily Mail society makes it out to be

I guess I see your looking down your nose at someone's mistakes in the same light as I would if you were sneering at someone wearing 'chavvy' clothes, living in a council house, on benefits etc.

I think its snobby, unpleasant, and yes, ill mannered.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Thu 11-Jul-13 17:22:28

It's bad manners to comment, not to find it annoying, I think, helly.

I think duck has a point, but I also think it's simply unnecessary to make people feel bad. I know there are a few rare people who'll respond with 'oh, thank you, I'm so glad you corrected me', but honestly, far more will feel hurt or upset.

It is also hypocritical unless you never make a mistake yourself, and I have to admit, every time these threads come along, I am stunned by the number of people who're quite willing to criticize other people, but who get incredibly defensive when it's pointed out that they, too, make mistakes. I think it is fairly telling, that! It suggests people do know it's upsetting (because they get upset themselves) - they just assume they'll not be on the receiving end.

tufty, that's so sad, but wonderful you were able to do that with her. You must feel very proud.

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 11-Jul-13 17:58:20

Doesn't it depend on the context in which somebody is told they have made an error?

On here? It's designed to make the person who made the mistake feel embarrassed.

In the work place? Well if you're writing letters that will be seen by clients/customers then personal feelings don't come in to it. Mistakes must be corrected.

usualsuspect Thu 11-Jul-13 18:10:26

Absolutely right to correct in the work place.

But OP started the thread about MN.

DuckworthLewis Thu 11-Jul-13 18:22:58

Hmmm...it's an interesting point Alis but the fact remains, today's mistake is tomorrow's standard English.

How many of you use the term 'begs the question' to mean 'begs you (to ask) the question'?

This is a perfectly acceptable modern use of the phrase, but it is still technically wrong. I even heard a Judge using it in this context a few days ago.

How many people over the years got 'annoyed' by people using it incorrectly? Tried to correct those using it in the workplace incorrectly? They certainly lost that battle, didn't they?

How about the word 'Gay'? Means something very different to me than it would have done to my great grandparents...

(I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture)

BackforGood Thu 11-Jul-13 18:26:08

Thanks to people like the last 3 posters who have defended the right of everyone to come on here and have a chat, against some sneery, rude and downright nasty people who might hopefully think a little bit more before being so offensive in future.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Thu 11-Jul-13 18:32:56

Absolutely agree, avis, it does depend (though I still think it is important to do it tactfully and I agree with duck that sometimes, we have to be aware that language changes).

Fifty years ago no-one with a non-RP accent could have gone on the BBC. Now, thank goodness, that's changed and people wouldn't expect to be 'corrected' for speaking with a regional accent. I suspect a lot of grammar will go the same way.

It's just dialect and accents though isn't it?

I say could of/should of and been instead of being. It sometimes gets typed that way if I forget to proof read and spell check my inane chatty forum posts...

Those that are sick and crying because of certain words incorrectly said and spelt would keel over and die if they heard the way locals speak round my way!

"Goin tahn to tret me sen lark"

hellymelly Thu 11-Jul-13 18:48:53

Duck I disagree with that, my grandparents were sticklers for grammar, (my granny was a teacher in an age when education in Wales was reveared above all else). My Grandfather was slaving down the coal mine at 14 , but running his own business in his 20's. Neither were born with silver spoons by any means, but they recognised education as the way for anyone to pursue their aims in life. I think the loss of respect for language is very sad, to be able to express oneself is such a basic human desire. I am not intentionally looking down on anyone, I wouldn't find mistakes annoying in someone who hadn't had educational opportunities, who had special needs, or dyslexia, but I see the "would of" written all the time on mumsnet by women who are clearly educated and whose spelling is otherwise fine. Maybe it is simply modern teaching? I don't know.

hellymelly Thu 11-Jul-13 18:49:32

Spelling mistake on "revered" serves me right...!

DuckworthLewis Thu 11-Jul-13 18:54:37

Yes, but I bet your grandparents have no understanding of, for example correct syntax in programming languages? (which is now being taught to 7 year olds under Michael Gove's planned changes to the National curriculum)

Which do you think is more relevant to today's society? Correct use of who's/whose? Or the ability to express yourself in the digital age?

LRDLearningKnigaBook Thu 11-Jul-13 18:59:51

helly, I assure you, I have immense respect for language (as well as Welsh coal-mining ancestors of my own).

What I found terribly sad, in that context, was the number of people who lost their mother tongue because they were punished for speaking Welsh. That is what was seen as 'education' and 'respect for language' back then.

It's not very different from the attitude towards dialects and accents on this thread, though.

I genuinely find your posts slightly difficult to read, because you don't punctuate properly (what is it with punctuation and people who're pedants on this thread?!). Are you aware you're doing that? And that you might come across as just as 'annoying' as someone who writes 'been' for 'being'?

Alisvolatpropiis Thu 11-Jul-13 19:40:22

usual

It's moved on into a more general discussion? I thought anyway.

But as I said - correcting people on MN isn't intended to be helpful,it's always a dig. I might notice an error on here but I wouldn't ever comment. Unless you're in Pedants Corner grammar and spelling isn't really the point of any of us posting on any thread.

LRD

True even in the workplace a bit of tact wouldn't go amiss. Amending the letter is enough, loudly chastising the person in front of others isn't on. That's what I meant about feelings not coming into it. Otherwise it turns into an exercise in belittling the person.

LRDLearningKnigaBook Thu 11-Jul-13 19:44:20

Yes, I agree, that seems totally fair to do. And helpful, because it's in context.

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