To not want to meet friends tomorrow for picnic as they'll be drinking?

(244 Posts)
ChangeyMcChangeName Fri 05-Jul-13 23:59:50

My friends (a couple) have recently gotten over a bad health was her...the female half. She had a terrible illness which came on suddenly and almost killed her.

She's been out of hospital for two weeks. Her DH suggested my DH and our DC go to see them tomorrow as theres a very nice beauty spot near their flat....we could have a picnic with the DC he said. I agreed...our DC are 5 and 8 and theres are 3 and 1.

Then I got a txt saying "We're going to be having a couple of bottles of bring a beer or whatever if you want..."

AIBU to get a bit judgey? She's still recovering...I mean she was in a MESS....she was at deaths door. We're going to meet them on the train as we have no car drinking isn't really a good idea...and we;ll all have the DC with us.

Am I a big misery guts? It's just put me off a bit. We're not drinkers really so I said no we wouldn't be drinking.

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 00:03:08

If you don't want to drink, then don't.

HildaOgden Sat 06-Jul-13 00:03:47


Yes,you are being very,very judgey.Ever think the woman (and indeed,her hubby) have decided to enjoy the moment....sunshine,friends,childrens laughter,wine,picnic on a summers day?

Please don't bring that judgmental attitude to the picnic,it will be as welcome as a hungry wasp.

MichelleRouxJnr Sat 06-Jul-13 00:03:56

So don't drink.

MichelleRouxJnr Sat 06-Jul-13 00:04:55

oops x-post.
Also...everything Hilda said.

Don't drink if you don't want to but leave your judginess at home.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 00:07:41

If she's had such a scare I'd say she might be in need of a (very large) drink.

I'm not sure I follow your thinking though, what are you being judgy over exactly?

That you think she shouldn't be drinking because she's had a brush with death and kicked him in the nads? Or because you think it'll interfere with her medication? Or that she should be making the most of life now and you don't think alcohol should be included in that?

You're not a misery to not drink yourself, that's your decision, just like having a couple is hers.

usualsuspect Sat 06-Jul-13 00:08:10

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quoteunquote Sat 06-Jul-13 00:08:25

Maybe she is just feeling like trying to get back to a care free fun life, she is probably all too well aware how close she was.

She may well not feel like drinking, but just like the idea she could.

unless you expect them to be rolling around drunk, it wouldn't hurt to try to have some quality time together.

sitting in the sun and having a glass of wine is quite a nice thing to do to raise one spirits

BrianTheMole Sat 06-Jul-13 00:08:32

Oh leave her alone. Shes best placed to make that judgement, not you.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:09:30

Agent I just think she's being foolish. Her health should be her priority right now. Her organs have been battered.

SavoyCabbage Sat 06-Jul-13 00:10:22

We often have wine on picnics. One of my friends doesn't drink so she has sparkling water. It's fun.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:12:37

I know it's fun. But honestly? When you've had a terrible illness where your main organs all shut down? Would you really then drink alcohol only weeks afterwards?

HildaOgden Sat 06-Jul-13 00:13:47

Unless she has had liver failure,then I don't see what your problem is.And actually,even if she had ,then I really don't think it's your place to tut.

I think she (and he) are far more aware of her health situation that you are.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:16:04

well she did hilda. As I said, all her organs were under terrible strain. She was on life supportf

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sat 06-Jul-13 00:16:31

You must never question the drinking of wine on MN. Never.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:16:53

And actually I am fully aware of her health sutuation as I was kept undated daily and helped her DH through the awfulness of it all.

HildaOgden Sat 06-Jul-13 00:16:54

Have you considered,if her health is so bad,that maybe she has been told she doesn't have as long a life ahead of her as she could otherwise have expected?And that they have decided to enjoy it their way?

All sorts of possibilities here...but one thing is sure,they don't need you judging them.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:18:18

Apparently not Jamie! Even if you're lying on the slab it would be considered rude not to have a glass of bloody wine here. I still think it's bloody awful actually. To almost die...have your life taken away...leave your DC...get saved by the NHS and then to go off and drink alcohol. Wrong.

Morloth Sat 06-Jul-13 00:18:40

I think her organs are her business.

And that you should get over yourself.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:19:58

Hilda that's not the case at all. She's been told she needs to live carefully but there's no risk of an early death.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 00:20:59

In moderation, alcohol isn't bad for your health, and you can't underestimate how much being happy in your head can help if you've been ill.

I'm sure she just said 'a couple of bottles' as the way you say it in conversation (which is used on MN too, I say things conversationally that I don't really want like 'mmm chips/choc/wine'), not necessarily that she's going to chug them both down herself.

What kind of a drinker is she normally?

Have you had chance to talk about what happened to her?

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 00:21:03

Changey I completly agree with you. I have 3 kids and have never felt that when we go out on picnic BBQ's etc it is the right place to be drinking. Why do people say she may need a large drink if she has been ill?????? Why drink if you have been so ill? You are right to worry, if you dont want to drink then you dont have to and if you feel they have had a bit too much at any point then excuse yourself and leave if possible.

I am not perfect (far from it), Ive been a mum 22 years and my kids have never seen me tipsy or drunk. I have much more respect for them and for myself to think that this is OK. My son said to me a while ago (hes 22) that he has more respect for me that his friends do their parents as he has never had to watch me slurring my words and slumped in a corner.

I am not suggeting your friends will do this! Just that we are all able to have a great time and have a laugh without necking a bottle of wine.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:21:20

Morloth I know they are but it seems wrong! I bet if I said "My mate almost died of lung cancer and she's back on twenty a she wrong? People would agree with me...but alcohol...oh nooooo it's FINE! hmm

TheSecondComing Sat 06-Jul-13 00:22:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Serenitysutton Sat 06-Jul-13 00:23:27

Do you have reason to think she has been advised not to drink? Because she's obviously recovered from "all her organs shutting down"- I don't really understand why you wouldn't be able to drink unless there was a specific reason

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:23:31

Agent she's always been a heavy drinker. Oreo that's it exactly...I just don't feel "right" drinking on a picnic with children! It's so unnecessary! Why not just play and have a walk and eat some nice food? Drinking is for affects your judgement and in the hot sun outdoors it makes you feel shit!

Morloth Sat 06-Jul-13 00:23:58

I wouldn't agree with you, people can do what they like with their own bodies.

She is not answerable to you.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:24:37

SecondComing I am worried about her future ffs. How is that po? Serentiy I am not going into details here but yes...she was told to avoid alcohol, fatty foods and smoking.

Smoking she's stopped.

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 00:24:52

Well that would depend if her condition was due to drinking or not then.

BackforGood Sat 06-Jul-13 00:25:06

Personally, I think it's too hot to be drinking wine in the middle of the day - give me some icy water any time, but I think it's not for you to judge what she is choosing to do. Speaking as one who has been diagnosed with a cancer, it changes your outlook on life, but not necessarily by turning you into a healthy, monk like person who wishes to spend their life abstaining from everything that may not be good for you.

ChangeyMcChangeName Sat 06-Jul-13 00:25:27

No Morloth that's obvious, I just feel...I don't know. I feel like it's stupid! I am dissapointed. She almost died. It was a terrible time. And now she's drinking? Not on.

HildaOgden Sat 06-Jul-13 00:25:40

Grand so,no risk of an early death.She can enjoy a tipple so.

You sound very bitter about your friend having the audacity to enjoy a picnic (with) wine.Your post of 00.18 is just nasty....I'm guessing that you didn't actually have the courage of your convictions and actually say all that to the friends??No?

How dare she enjoy a summers day with friends and family after a near death experience...why,she should be in sackcloth and ashes,on her knees praising the taxpayer.

I'll repeat my first post on this :Get.Over.Yourself.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 00:27:32

'Even if you're lying on the slab it would be considered rude not to have a glass of bloody wine here'

Make that a gin and I'm in.

Just because you helped support her/her family when she was ill (and I'm not underestimating the amazing things you did for her) that doesn't give you any right to judge her whatsoever.

Maybe you should keep away if you think she's not making the most of her life as you think she should. That she's wasting it on picnics and having a glass of something. Should she be going out at all? Maybe she should stay at home and dwell forevermore on her lucky stars?

She wants to forget it and do normal things with people she feels are on her side.

BrianTheMole Sat 06-Jul-13 00:28:20

People would agree with me...but alcohol...oh nooooo it's FINE!

its not about the alcohol. Its about her right to make choices for herself.

DENMAN03 Sat 06-Jul-13 00:29:20

Sorry but you sound a nightmare friend. It's her life, let her enjoy it as she likes and stop judging her decisions!! No one is forcing you to have a drink.. Mind you it might loosen you up a bit. Don't go if you feel that strongly.

CooEeeEldridge Sat 06-Jul-13 00:29:24

Why have you bothered to post?! You've already judged, so just don't go! Why do you need other people to validate what you want to do?! You clearly don't want to go, so don't. Dont rely on strangers to validate your decisions.

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 00:32:13

Changey, its amazing the reaction you get when you mention "alcohol", I spend a lot of my time at work counselling patients who are recovering from substance and alcohol addiction and the reaction that we have from some spouses/families when we suggest that they remove it from the house, not to drink around them and avoid going to places where people are drinking never stops amazing me and the other nurses on the unit! You would think we had asked them to stop breathing or something.... there are some fab families as well though who do understand that their loved ones have been close to death and that enabling them to drink is not loving them. Hope you have a nice pic nic. ignore the rude comments you have had.... maybe they have never seen anyone in acute liver failurel It is not a pretty sight, your friends sounds irresponsible to be even considering drinking, you are supposed to abstain for 12 months after acute liver disease at least... the meds she will be on will also have contraindications...... let her get on with it and you do what you want to do.

wannabeawallaby Sat 06-Jul-13 00:32:33



I'm not!


DioneTheDiabolist Sat 06-Jul-13 00:32:44


That's it.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 00:33:01

'I am dissapointed. She almost died'

It's very sad you've put those two things together?

She almost died!

And you're more bothered about her drinking than her enjoying surviving her near death experience?

Could this be your way of dealing with what you found to be an extremely distressing and disturbing situation?

That you are genuinely worryed about her, but it's coming out as a hoik rather than a different way of showing you care about her?

TheCutOfYourJib Sat 06-Jul-13 00:34:36

What exactly was wrong with her?

Serenitysutton Sat 06-Jul-13 00:35:08

I agre with cooEee. You've already decided you are nbu. I have a strange feeling you're going to reveal that all her medical problems were related to alcohol abuse and you already know one more glass would kill her

Morloth Sat 06-Jul-13 00:35:30

Think what you like but keep your trap shut.

And don't go to their picnic.

aldiwhore Sat 06-Jul-13 00:36:24

My Mum was tee total for 61 years.

She had a brain haemorrhage, was at death's door. Once she was out of the woods and feeling better, she started to enjoy wine.

Wine would not make her ill again.

I guess it depends on whether a bottle of wine will kill her or fling her instantly back into serious illness.

Perhaps she's decided to LIVE, and celebrate her life?

I think either way you're being extremely judgey, this is HER LIFE.

You may have a valid reason to think that her drinking wine might be selfish, but without knowing her exact condition I think I have to say YABVU.

If one bottle of wine could kill her, she's not yet recovered or out of the woods.

I don't know. I don't like your 'tone' though, but I accept that is hard to gauge on a forum.

HildaOgden Sat 06-Jul-13 00:37:41

What was this illness that nearly killed her?

Unless your friend is actually an active/recovering alcoholic, it's none of your business. If your hatred of drinking is down to having grown up with an alcoholic parent or something, it's understandable, but it's still not your job to tell other people not to drink alcohol.

Mind you, if your friend sent you the invite and mentioned that there would be alcohol at the picnic, it sounds like you have not, previously, had a problem with other people drinking alcohol in your presence. Either that or she does know that you are massively self-righteous on the subject and has therefore sent you the text in the hope that the stick up your arse will keep you away from her celebration.

wannabeawallaby Sat 06-Jul-13 00:45:37


oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 00:47:09

from reading what you have said about it sounds like she had primary sclerosing cholangitis - you can actually have the odd drink with this condition as her liver will be able to break down the alcohol still albiet slowly. She will have had some advice from her health care professional about what she can and cant do and so perhaps you should trust her judgement? she obviously knows how seriously ill she was and if she has little ones its doubtful she would risk becoming ill again. Go with the flow.

CleoBrown Sat 06-Jul-13 00:47:12

It seems sad that you can't enjoy a day with your friend, especially seen as how close you two supposedly were, without the judging.
Maybe it's her 'one off' as a celebration that she's alive?
Surely if you know her that well you can ask her or at least hold off judgement before your picnic.

If I had gone through something awful and wanted a final 'blow out' , regardless f the advice, I woud feel awful that my friends were judging me for it. sad

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Cravingdairy Sat 06-Jul-13 00:58:34

The text might have meant 'we're going to be bringing a couple of bottles of wine' i.e. one red and one white for all the adults to share. You can't assume from the text that the lady is intending to chug down a whole bottle to herself. You don't know what she plans to do. It's not really your business but if you feel you have to, why not raise it with your friend instead of jumping to conclusions and judgments?

ilovesooty Sat 06-Jul-13 00:59:14

I can't believe you're arrogant enough to sit in judgement about her choices. Just don't go if you're unable to keep your disapproval to yourself. It would be better if you didn't spoil her day.

Snoot Sat 06-Jul-13 00:59:26

If you can't help judging her just stay away from the picnic, you'll ruin it. You sound like incompatible friends which is ok, just don't ruin her special day.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 01:05:26

The OP doesn't have to say what's wrong with her friend wannabe, it might out her.

She's not cheating you out of something if she doesn't, like if you came back with 'well why post if you're not going to say', it's up to the OP.

Butterflywgs Sat 06-Jul-13 01:08:17

OMG, OP you are being very judgemental and nasty.
Presumably your friend knows more than you about her condition and the advice she has (or hasn't) been given.
It's not about alcohol, it's about her right to do what the fuck she wants with her own body.
I'd feel the same if it was smoking. Although smoking has been scientifically proven to be bad for your health; in moderation alcohol has not. In fact there is evidence that a glass or two a day has beneficial effects. But even so, anyone has the right to smoke. My nan had lung disease and continued to smoke. Died last year at 88, having been independent until the last year of her life. I would never have presumed to tell her not to smoke - she wasn't a drinker and it was one of her few pleasures in life towards the end.

VestaCurry Sat 06-Jul-13 01:08:57

Just don't go. They and you can then do as they/you wish.

If you are this worried about your friend, then you should speak to her about your concerns.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 01:11:08

'If you are this worried about your friend, then you should speak to her about your concerns.'

Probably not a good idea to dump this one on her at such a time?

It'd just bring more shit into her life.

It's the OP's problem, so she should keep it to herself.

(said in a non-shitty way)

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Dumpylump Sat 06-Jul-13 01:41:17

I don't understand why op seems to be assuming that her friend is going to be knocking back an entire bottle of wine by herself. confused

mollygibson Sat 06-Jul-13 01:48:49

Hi OP, if you're worried about your friend, why not have a word to her - she might be able to put your mind at rest; maybe she's been told it's OK to have the occasional glass of wine. Just because they're taking a couple of bottles of wine doesn't mean they're planning on drinking the whole lot.

Don't really see the need for snide/nasty replies tbh even if the OP is being unreasonable/judgemental.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 02:04:25

Why should the friend, who's just been through a traumatic situation, have to put the OP's mind at rest, molly?

Why should she have yet another thing to worry about?

If the OP's any kind of friend, she'll stop any of her hoiking from leaking out in front of her mate. If she did say anything, she'd be saying for selfish reasons of her own rather than out of any care for her friend.

I know people who think they have a right to make you aware of their harsh judgements of you, even though it's only their opinion and fuck all to do with them. 'I insist you listen to me and do as I say', and then get shitty when you tell them where to get off.

suburbophobe Sat 06-Jul-13 02:23:55

True, Agent. Some people think they have the right to tell you how to live your life.

None of us know how or when we will pop our clogs.

My grandad gave up smoking at 92, he died at 94.

A friend died of lung cancer at the age of 49. She'd never smoked in her life.

Just saying....

Idocrazythings Sat 06-Jul-13 03:32:49

I suppose my feelings would depend whether she was having a glass, or getting smashed (I'm guessing you mean she'll be drinking heavily). You sound like you were very worried she would die, and were possibly quite involved supporting her DH and now she's out of hospital are scared she's going to go straight back there. Can you tell her that? If she is going to drink several bottles (to herself) and disregard her recovery then maybe rethink the friendship?

If its just one small glass as a one off then YABU.

ThreeMusketeers Sat 06-Jul-13 05:58:30

Do not go to that picnic, you will ruin it for them.
It is NOT your place to judge.
Don't drink yourself but butt out of other people's lives.
Gosh, you do sound such miseryguts.
People who have been at the death's door want to enjoy and make a most of the life they have been given back.
If having wine at a picnic is what makes her happy, they she should have that wine.

daisychain01 Sat 06-Jul-13 06:16:12

Surely the reason to post on this AIBU is precisely because its about checking out a situation. Telling Changey don't go on the picnic and that she is being 'judgy' is remarkably immature given the context she described and is missing the point. She is clearly concerned about her friend - If i had witnessed my friend on life support only weeks before then I would feel equally as worried.

Changey, you are being a caring friend and thank goodness for people like you around! You have good cause to have concerns, but unfortunately all you can do is hope your dear friend will be sensible and look after herself.

If possible go along to the picnic and ensure your friend sees you are there to support her. Difficult though it may be, I am sure she wants to have fun with friends around her after that scare.

luxemburgerli Sat 06-Jul-13 06:50:06

I think you're getting a hard time unnecessarily OP.

Your friend nearly dies in hospital, you and her family willingly spend lots of time and energy supporting her. The doctors say "avoid alcohol" and she apparently doesn't. I think that yes, under these circumstances, she IS answerable (to a certain extent) to others. Sometimes a bit of judging is a good thing.

That said, it is her choice in the end. So IMO you could reasonably bring it up with her. Along the lines of "I must have misunderstood, I thought the hospital said no more alcohol". But if she refuses to heed medical advice, it is her decision. And it would then be your decision whether you stick around and watch the eventual fallout.

HappySeven Sat 06-Jul-13 07:32:44

Have you considered that she's possibly thinking of having a glass and the two bottles are for you all to share with a choice of colour?

If she's really been told to avoid alcohol then she's being daft but it really is her choice to do so. You can say 'as a friend, I'm worried about you, do you think you should drink?' but at the end of the day it's her choice.

bearleftmonkeyright Sat 06-Jul-13 07:35:38

Fucking hell, is everyone enjoying kicking the OP hmm. Clearky your friends illness has been a massive shock to you OP. But her health is in hee hands. I agree as a separate issue, that alcohol at a picnic with kids is unnecessary but its their choice. I hope you go, I just think you are worrying.

maddy68 Sat 06-Jul-13 07:38:42

Omg. A picnic in the sun us lovely with a couple of bottles. We are planing to do the same!!!
You are on the train do perfect to have a drink no driving!!

If you don't want to drink then don't? No one is forcing you!

You found like a bag of fun tbh. Not someone I would want to share a picnic with

fairylightsinthespring Sat 06-Jul-13 07:40:00

I agree that the wording of the text from the husband is suggesting that they are bringing a couple of bottles to share, and that you might want to bring some too, so there's enough for all of you. Without knowing what the illness was caused by, we can't really say of she is being unwise, but if you are that close, presumably you could ask her on the picnic, what the drs have said about alcohol, express surprise if you like, but maybe do it in a way that you are so pleased her recovery is good enough to allow it, rather than judging her behaviour to be dangerous and selfish.

raisah Sat 06-Jul-13 07:42:49

If you are worried about their ability to drive you back to the station then call a cab but do go to the picnic & give your friend a hug. She almost died and she wants to share a lovely day with her loved ones with good food and drink. Enjoy it with her & try seeing life from her eyes. What would you do if you came back from deaths door?

LoveBeingUpAt4InTheMorning Sat 06-Jul-13 07:45:58

I think you are being premature in deciding she's battering her body again

ilovechips Sat 06-Jul-13 07:47:07

I don't think you should go to the picnic. You clearly can barely contain your disapproval of your friend so you would likely ruin their day. I would hope any friend of mine would be glad I was still alive, not posting judgey twattish posts about my personal choices on mumsnet.

ImagineJL Sat 06-Jul-13 07:49:17


All this "her body her business" stuff really annoys me. What ever happened to caring about other people? Aren't we allowed to be concerned about those we love, and what damage they may be doing to themselves, or to the people around them?

I'm guessing she had cholecystitis and was septic with multi-organ failure? (bit of a shot in the dark, but the low fat diet suggested that as a possibility)

Whatever she had wrong with her, if it involved liver failure then she is barking mad to have a drink at this stage, and like you I would feel sad about it, and wouldn't want to be there while she was drinking.

Of course it's her decision, but it would be a sad state of affairs if we all just shrugged and said "hey, not my business" when people did dangerous things. Where do we draw the line? I tried to help my cousin when she was drinking 40 units of vodka daily. But hey it was her business, maybe I should have stayed out of it. I know that's not what OP's friend is doing, but I'm making a point.

TobyLerone Sat 06-Jul-13 07:50:04

You sound like a barrel of laughs, OP.

ImagineJL Sat 06-Jul-13 07:52:51

Alcohol is not always a laugh, as many of us are unfortunate enough to know. It has a time and a place, and that time is not 2 weeks after liver failure!

Kafri Sat 06-Jul-13 07:53:28

She might be ready to go out and have a few drinks if she's had such a scare. As long as she's not steaming while looking after the kids too then what's the problem??

If you're going on the train as you don't have a car then surely that's the best time for you to have a couple of drinks???

Don't judge your friend - if you want a drink, do. If you don't then just don't. Let your friend do the same.

I don't drink at all - through choice and even I can see you're BU. she's a grown up, she can decide for herself if she wants a drink without other people judging her for it.

Jamdoughnutfiend Sat 06-Jul-13 08:06:27

YANBU - drinking a bottle of wine when looking after a 1 & 3 year old, never mind the health condition is wrong IMO. But I am a massive killjoy when it comes to drinking around children - so am in the minority view probably

imademarion Sat 06-Jul-13 08:30:04

Changey I agree with you, budge up on the judgey bench.

I am no longer surprised at how defensive people become when anyone's drinking is questioned. If its not a big deal to have it, then it's not a big deal not to, surely?

I don't think a picnic with children is the place for drinking, and sadly I have personal experience of why not.

Your friend has a problem if she needs to be drinking 'a couple' of bottles of wine post-illness on a picnic with children.

MrsMook Sat 06-Jul-13 08:30:17

YANBU. You sound like a concerned friend, not a killjoy.
My liver and kidney function became impaired in labour with DS1. After a few weeks tests said it was "borderline but no action required". At my 8wk checkup, I requested a re-test as I wanted to be sure I wasn't harming my body before my first post-pregnancy drink. It had to be a small amount because of BFing a young baby frequently.

Why assume that a sober person is a party pooper? It's a picnic, not a hen night- not that drinking is compulsory on a hen night anyway.

Go, enjoy the sun and the company of your friends.

echt Sat 06-Jul-13 08:38:20

No-one has assumed that not to drink is to be a party pooper, just that some posters have said that, yes, the OP is BU to judge her friend's conduct, as asked in the OP.

Has the friend said she "needs" to drink a couple of bottles of wine? Surely the two bottles suggested is merely being sociable, and the idea that all bottles opened must be being drunk is an unreasonable inference.

ImagineJL Sat 06-Jul-13 08:41:46

I think any amount of alcohol after an episode of liver failure is madness. If you'd just had a brain haemorrhage would you spend an evening headbanging? Or even 10 minutes headbanging?

RedHelenB Sat 06-Jul-13 08:48:19

I think I would fell a bit like OP IF it meant she would be endangering her health again - she has two very young children depending on her.

VixZenFenchell Sat 06-Jul-13 08:53:44

I'm impressed with all the assumptions flying around. imagine you have put 2 and 2 together and come up with a complete diagnosis, future prognosis and sweeping "any amount of alcohol after an episode of liver failure is madness" judgement. Where's your medical degree from?

OP, it all depends on what the underlying diagnosis was. Multi organ failure can result from a variety of things. Liver function is often impaired when you are very ill but the liver can and does regenerate once the cause of the impairment (sepsis, low blood pressure, renal disease, gallstones etc) is treated.

Once your liver function and clotting tests are back to normal, there's no reason why your liver won't continue to work at its usual tasks including metabolising alcohol. Yes, I'd probably suggest caution with alcohol intake but I'd suggest that to anyone whether recently ill or not.

(University of London, 1991)

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Sat 06-Jul-13 09:09:02

Well I'd probably be a bit worried about her if she is planning on going on a binge - worried for her health & her kids.

I can see how it might feel like she was throwing back in your face the heartache and worry and everything you've been through in the last few weeks - seeing a friend almost die is a traumatic thing that people seen to be forgetting in the heat of the thread!

If you believe that she is effectively saying I am taking massive risks with my health and I do t give a monkeys what'ssit if I die leaving you all to grieve for me... Then yes I get your hurt.

However if it's just that this woman and her dh want to enjoy one or two glasses of wine on a beautiful day and feel happy to be alive... Then it's not nice to deny them that moment.

After almost dying, it's incredibly significant, and healing to the psyche to do something really lovely and life affirming. That's why you are getting flamed! It could be said that you want to take away that positive experience or self agency to enjoy her life, and she should be acting repentant or whatever instead.

What I've found is that people have really entrenched and opinionated views on how ill people should live their lives... And it's very upsetting to have that imposed on you by others. It's feels crass, unkind and displays a lack of empathy or humanity!

So... If the situation is, she's being medically irresponsible (emphasis on medical, not just an opinion from yourself), then no YANBU... But if it's that she is not acting according to a script you have in your head, then yes YABU.

ImagineJL Sat 06-Jul-13 09:11:43

Vix funnily enough I graduated from medical school the same year as you, different place though.

My guess was, as I made clear, a shot in the dark - but I was thinking what a young woman might get that could involve a stint on ITU and being advised not to drink or eat fatty food, and the first thing I thought of was cholecystitis. But it could be any number of other things obviously.

I still stand by my assertion that drinking alcohol so soon after being near death (as OP stated) due to liver failure is madness, and I wouldn't enjoy spending time watching it done.

VixZenFenchell Sat 06-Jul-13 09:29:45

I can't see a reference to liver failure. I can see advice to avoid fatty foods, alcohol and smoking (standard on any icu discharge) and multi organ failure. No specific reference to liver problems - multi organ failure doesn't have to involve the liver. I agree fatty food avoidance sounds gallbladder related though.

It depends on her age, her underlying comorbidities, what was actually wrong with her, what level of organ support she was on and for how long - far too many unknowns to go sweeping in with assumptions and judginess.

Triumphoveradversity Sat 06-Jul-13 09:32:50

I nearly died six years ago, it was over the Christmas holidays. I was let out on New Years Eve. I'm not a big drinker and haven't been since my twenties. I was still on meds. I asked the doctor if it was ok to have one glass of champagne at midnight.

' After what you've been through you deserve a drink' was her reply, only one allowed though.

I have never needed a drink more and I'm not even a drinker. It cannot be explained how peculiar/scary/ weird it is being that close to death.

Triumphoveradversity Sat 06-Jul-13 09:35:20

I just hope she did ask her Doctors for advice

ImagineJL Sat 06-Jul-13 09:39:15

Vix I'm sure I saw a bit where someone asked if it was liver failure and OP said yes, among other things. And it's not judginess coming from OP, it's care, concern, worry, and sadness at the horrors they've all recently been through.

Callycat Sat 06-Jul-13 09:43:06

I was raised by an alcoholic. I don't drink and I don't like to be around drunk people.

However, I still think YABveryU. You are zoning in on the alcohol way above the fact that your dear friend has survived, and now has the chance to have a wonderful day in the sun, with her family and friends, and with (if she so chooses) a nice glass of wine, like (almost) everyone else. Can't you try to be happy for her?

You're not coming across well, here OP - there is an undercurrent of spite in a lot of your posts.

I can understand you are concerned for your friend after her illness but she is an adult and is entitled to make her own choices. No matter what you think of them.

You can choose not to drink just as much as she can choose to drink.

Bogeyface Sat 06-Jul-13 09:54:05

OP, what is your idea of "heavy" drinking?

Drinking after her health scare is her decision to make, and if you are prepared to forgo a nice time with friends in order to show your disapproval then I think that is sad and doesnt make you are very good friends. Good friends accept others choices, whether they agree with them or not.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 10:01:50

How is telling someone they're overstepping the boundaries of their friendship being 'remarkably immature' (daisychain01) or defensive (imademarion)?

And shock at 'All this "her body her business" stuff really annoys me' WTF?? That's not caring for someone, it's trying to control them!

It is her body, do you often tell the people you know how you think they should be behaving?

Saying it's none of the OPs business and that she's over involving herself in a decision that has nothing to do with her, might end up with the friend telling her she can't be doing with people around her who think they've got some kind of parental authority over her.

And saying I think she shouldn't go to the picnic is my answer to the question the OP specifically asked in the title.

Mumsyblouse Sat 06-Jul-13 10:11:30

I don't hear spite at all I hear a person who was just scared rigid her friend was going to die. This is incredibly traumatic, and I'm sure you shed tears over her during this time.

It is then very hard, I have seen it myself, when the friend who has just survived a life-threatening illness, to do something which will endanger them all over again. I have been in this situation and it is hard not to think 'god, noooooo, don't do that' even if you keep it to yourself (as I did).

I don't think this is a rational well-thought out stance, you have been very upset by your friend's near death, from your understanding (which may or may not be correct) she shouldn't be drinking, and you panicked when you got the text.

Having said all that (and I think the people imputing you don't care for your friend are just incredibly wrong), you a) don't know she will definitely be drinking, she may be suggesting the bottles of wine for you all to share and may take soft drinks herself and b) even if she has a glass of wine, she will have made that decision having the knowledge of what the consultant said which you don't know and b) she is your friend and so go along and see her and celebrate her survival, even if you have to bite your tongue.

I find the attitude towards alcohol on MN really very bizarre. Alcohol is by far the biggest killer of the legal drugs, and middle-class alcoholism a very real problem, but any suggestion that you might want to umm remain sober around your tiny children (1 and 3 do need supervision) is met with disbelief and cries of judgementality. I think having one sober person per small children's outing is extremely important, but I have friends who get regularly as drunk as skunks all afternoon while caring for their children. I hate it. I also have a friend who was exceptionally put out when I failed to agree with her that it was her right to have two large glasses of wine every day when pregnant (so, most of a bottle then) and sure enough, a couple of years in, she was struggling with an alcohol problem. I would have thought not drinking a bottle a day when pregnant, or trying to have one person sober around tiny children were really basic safety steps, I am amazed at the defensiveness here over the 'right to drink' around tiny children.

ImagineJL Sat 06-Jul-13 10:14:33

I just think that in a civilised society where people experience friendship and empathy, we are allowed to care what our loved ones do and how they live. We shouldn't nag or lecture them, but of course we can have opinions. Would you remove the car keys of a friend about to drive home when very drunk Agent? Guess not, as it's their business what they do. I think that's sad.

"She's been out of hospital for two weeks."
"she was told to avoid alcohol, fatty foods and smoking."

"Then I got a txt saying "We're going to be having a couple of bottles of bring a beer or whatever if you want..."

AIBU to get a bit judgey?"

Given that you've said liver failure was involved; I don't know that how I'd feel would be called judgey, but I sure as hell would have picked up the phone and asked why she was putting her health on the line so casually.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if that text was almost an unconscious invitation to do so. In a 'well, ChangeyMcChangeName didn't say anything when I mentioned it so it must be OK' way.

It's her choice to drink.

You can always say ' I told you so' when and if the day comes, until then let her do what she chooses to do.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 10:19:44

Arf at 'civilised society' grin

There are far more uncivilised things to keep you busy than an adult having a glass of wine in the sunshine after nearly dying.

Bowlersarm Sat 06-Jul-13 10:20:25

Why is everyone being so extreme?

People seem to be either condemning the friend for wanting to drink to a state of drinkeness or saying it is her right to get trashed.

Surely it is anyone's prerogative to have a glass of wine at a picnic without being accused of an inability to look after the children?

(Obv have not answered the question of whether she should be drinking at all due to health reasons)

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 10:21:11

In fact, I can't think of anything more civilised tbh.

pigletmania Sat 06-Jul-13 10:26:23

Op yabvvvvu u, that's her decision to make. Mabey the scare has made her realise that life is too short and she wants to enjoy herself, what's the harm in that!

Samu2 Sat 06-Jul-13 10:26:40

I get you are worried but there is nothing you can do except have a quiet word with her if you think that might help.

I too think it is stupid to drink so soon after having organ failure when she has been told not to drink. However, I am not a drinker and don't understand all the fuss about it so that might cloud my opinion on it a bit.

I think you are just coming across as a worried friend and I would be worried too.

Mintyy Sat 06-Jul-13 10:27:18

Op, I totally get what you are saying. I also find it tiresome that alcohol seemingly has to be a part of every social event and it wouldn't appeal to me to drink at a picnic on a hot sunny day when I had young children to look after (and I say that as someone who generally drinks too much). And also I fully understand your concern and impatience with your friend. But you can't cancel now, its too late. Just go and have a good time alcohol-free. Maybe you will lead by example, who knows?

Samu2 Sat 06-Jul-13 10:28:21

Well, Piglet, there might be harm in it considering she has been told she should not be drinking.

Without knowing exactly what happened it is hard to say but I think drinking after being told not to after having organ failure might actually be harmful.

I doubt the OP would care if it wasn't.

pigletmania Sat 06-Jul-13 10:34:04

Just read the extra stuff yes she is still foolish, and I would casually mention to her whether she should be drinking. But I guess it's up to her

HotCrossPun Sat 06-Jul-13 10:39:10

OP, I think it's telling that you used the term 'judgey' in your original post.

I've tried imagine how I would have reacted in your situation. If my friend was recovering from a serious illness that involved her liver and said she was drinking, I would have text her back and asked whether the Doc had said drinking was okay.

She wouldn't be doing something that she knows is going to damage her health, especially after what she has just been through, so the chances are she has been told that moderate drinking is okay.

Showing your distain by not showing up, judging your friend, and then posting on a forum about her choices isn't being a good mate IMO.

If you are so concerned (which is understandable) just pick up the phone and talk to her.

MrRected Sat 06-Jul-13 10:41:52

Perhaps she intends on having one glass and that the rest of you would like to join in. To celebrate and relax.

You shouldn't judge. End.

MrsEricBana Sat 06-Jul-13 10:51:35

At the end of the day it's up to her but as someone who now doesn't drink much (due to a health issue) I have been put off meeting a particular couple where every gathering seems to be about drinking as much as is physically possible and encouraging others to do so too, especially at day time events where the children are milling around. I think yanbu to be disappointed that a daytime family picnic out has loads of wine on the agenda but yabu re her and her health in that it's up to her really. There are many many people all around us damaging their health voluntarily every day through drinking, smoking, overeating etc and what can you do.

Moxiegirl Sat 06-Jul-13 10:52:35

Are you going to feel the same if she eats a few pork pies? After all she's been told to avoid fatty foods.

Mumsyblouse Sat 06-Jul-13 10:58:23

She wouldn't be doing something that she knows is going to damage her health, especially after what she has just been through, so the chances are she has been told that moderate drinking is okay.

Unfortunately people do continue to drink when it's harming their health, smoke when they have got emphysema and eat a crap diet when they've got diabetes. They also smoke cannabis knowing they have MH problems. It is hard to watch and sometimes you can't help saying something if it is someone very close to you, but it is their choice. But that doesn't mean you can't be uncomfortable with it or even avoid being around them when they are doing it. I shout at my husband every now and again for eating utter crap when having Type 2 diabetes, of course it doesn't help, but sometimes watching someone doing something quite destructive is emotionally too much and your inner judge escapes.

Mumsyblouse Sat 06-Jul-13 11:00:17

And- in response to the pork pies, yes, I would tell my husband to lay off the pork pies, they are exactly what he shouldn't eat, what with being obese and having diabetes. He can then choose to ignore me as he usually does. You can't always be supportive and non-judgemental when you care about people (well, you can try but you may well fail).

imademarion Sat 06-Jul-13 11:01:35

agentzigzag, I did read the replies on here as remarkably defensive. I see the results of our nation's drinking all too often sad

I think enjoying a glass of something cold to enhance a sunny picnic is perfectly reasonable.

But this lady is fresh out of hospital, is planning to bring a bottle of wine EACH for her and her DP and is asking the OP to bring more booze.

So I'm judging the drink to be a pretty focal point of this outing.

I think a bottle of wine per adult, at a picnic where children are present, is inappropriate.

But then I'm sure my mates think I'm inappropriately fixated on having nice food at picnics, so each to their own vice. grin

FriendlyLadybird Sat 06-Jul-13 11:04:35

Taking the illness out of the equation, a couple of bottles of wine between four adults is not a huge amount. There would be no need to go all Puritan over drinking that amount and still being in charge of children.

Even considering her illness, there's a world of difference between a sociable text, saying 'We'll be having a couple of bottles of wine' -- i.e. if you want to drink yourself, feel free; bring beer if you don't like wine; no need to pretend we're still hanging round someone on life support -- and actually drinking themselves into oblivion. Just saying you're going to bring 'a' bottle to a picnic sounds awfully mean, actually.

Don't drink if you don't want to. Don't go if you don't want to, especially if you think you'll be sitting there counting the units that your friend drinks.

Themobstersknife Sat 06-Jul-13 11:06:48

I suspect your friends may still be in shock. Cut them some slack. They have been through a life changing event and just want to relax and enjoy the very rare sunshine. Nothing in what they have said suggests she is going to drink a shed load of wine. They probably want to pour everyone a glass to toast her feeling well again, and are looking to celebrate with their friends who have supported them. But really, whatever their plan is, I can understand why you would be worried, but it is not up to you to judge, as you have no idea how they are both feeling.

I have been very poorly and could have died. I still suffer from anxiety. I often drink alcohol, rarely too much, and whilst I would expect my friends and family might worry, I definitely would not expect them to 'have a quiet word'. I am a grown up and make my own decisions. My situation is different, as I have not been advised not to drink but still... She has had a tough time, probably not thinking rationally and what she does now, two weeks on, is not indicative of how she might live her life. It is very early days. I think she would be devestated if she knew you were 'disappointed' in her. She doesn't really need that. If there is a chance she might read this thread and recognise herself, I would get it deleted.

sweetestcup Sat 06-Jul-13 11:09:39

No idea what this persons diagnosis is or illness was so cant comment whether drinking is appropriate or not, but just loving all the really judgey comments in general about adults having the nerve to even drink alcohol on a picnic when children are present, as if that makes them better parents then someone who has some wine.

Kiriwawa Sat 06-Jul-13 11:14:23

You seem a very unlikely friend for someone who is/was a hard drinking/hard smoking sybarite I must say hmm

Bogeyface Sat 06-Jul-13 11:14:42

Her DH suggested the picnic, who texted about the wine? It could be that none of this is the friends idea and it her DH talking about the wine and suggesting they bring beers if they want to.

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 11:17:37

Good point. It could be that the dh doesn't want to be drinking on his own?

Mumsyblouse Sat 06-Jul-13 11:28:01

Alcohol affects your cognitive (and other) abilities- that's what makes it fun. How weird that if you posted that you were leaving your 1 and 3 year old with a 15 year old from down the road, everyone would call you irresponsible as they don't have the maturity/abilities to deal with a crisis, but would think it fine for everyone to get really quite drunk, with impaired cognitive abilities in a crisis, by drinking wine. So, to some extent, knowing you need to have someone (only needs to be one person) looking after toddlers who is cognitively functioning at a pretty high level IS a mark of good parenting in most people's books.

Some of my skepticism is coming from the fact that people keep going on about having just 'one glass of wine'. In my experience, people who love afternoon drinking don't drink one glass of wine at all. I don't know anyone who drinks like this, they all neck it for hours all afternoon and into the evening or don't drink at all.

Mumsyblouse Sat 06-Jul-13 11:29:34

But I wouldn't sweat this situation over a text message which could be interpreted in many different ways and which may not correspond to what actually happens. I would go and have fun with your friend.

specialsubject Sat 06-Jul-13 11:30:11

join in, just bring what you want to drink. If they get boring (as most people do if they drink too much) tell them they are boringly drunk and leave.

but if it is just a sociable tipple and doesn't make them no fun, why not? Doesn't sound like anyone is driving.

HeffalumpTheFlump Sat 06-Jul-13 11:38:25

I can see where the op is coming from. Seeing your friend nearly die must have been extremely traumatising for you and so to see her taking risks with her health must be really scary. I can therefore understand your reaction. However, if you are unwilling to talk to her about it, you need to step back and allow her to make her own choices regarding her health.

I can see why other posters have taken your comments as nasty, but I don't know anyone who could see a loved one nearly die and then not feel angry if they saw them possibly putting themselves back in that position. I personally would be fuming, but would talk to them about it in terms of 'you are scaring the shit out of me with what you are doing'.

You obviously care about your friend and that is not a bad thing, but I think you may be going about this the wrong way.

hermioneweasley Sat 06-Jul-13 11:39:04

I understand why it seems strange. I would be wondering too - alcohol is hardly going to help someone who has been so ill. But I don't think you can say anything, just go and enjoy yourself and let her take responsibility for her choices.

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 13:01:04

We are off to a BBQ this afternoon, my friends at their house, lots of people coming with small children. Its an alcohol free zone, our freinds drink (we have had many a night out drunk) but NEVER round their kids which suits me just fine and the others that are coming. She often has parties and BBQ's and if kids are there we know the score. We have a great laugh and I have never heard anyone complain about no drinking.....not everyone thinks its MUST to drink ...... there are some sad people on this site giving you a hard time. If she wants to kill her self and drink let her get on with it. Keep your self and your kids away from her stupidity. ignore the I NEED a drink brigade on her and move up on the judement bench so I can sit next to you...... lemonade anyone??

Bogeyface Sat 06-Jul-13 14:50:40


You know, with a bit of effort you could have fitted a bit more sanctimony into that post!

So now the friend is stupid and the OP's children must be protected from her? Wow. Just, wow.

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 14:58:24

I love pious threads like this. So many, erm, posters hmm on MN now straight out of Puritan times. It's entertaining.

Why not take her a pack of cigarettes? Or introduce her to cannabis?

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:03:44

I hate to see what the dementia wards will look like in a few decades with all these clean-living people who think the reward for this is going to be a long, healthy retirement.

But then, I won't be here. I'll be partying in the afterlife with all my good-times mates.

piprabbit Sat 06-Jul-13 15:03:51

When I was recovering from a frightening and life-threatening illness that involved a long stay in hospital and long-term health implications, I was passionate about not wanting to be defined by my illness, not wanting people to judge me or make assumptions about what I could or could not do.

I'm sure that many MNers have arranged a night out with their friends and joked about having a drink or two while secretly knowing full well that they are pregnant and don't intend to have more than a sip when it actually comes down to it.

Or maybe the friend is planning a bit of a session, in which case she is being foolish but that is her choice. Similarly the OP is being judgemental and unpleasant, that is her choice.

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 15:08:43

Its been a bad day..... I need a drink. Ive had a great day..... Lets have a
drink. I got the job..... Lets have a
drink to celebrate! I didnt get the job.....lets have a drink
to commiserate. Its summer at last... Lets all have a drink. Its bloody
freezing today... Who fancies a drink to
warm us up? A party!!! Ooh how much will I
need to chuck up outside and make a
complete fool of myself..... A funeral.... Yes lets all have a few drinks
to toaSt the dearly departed. In fact lets have a drink anyway who needs an far to boring to be
able to have a good time without it....

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:15:39

Someone doesn't need a drink, they need a great big fat doobie to learn to unclench grin.

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 15:15:41

We dont have 'dementia wards' they are organic or functional....consistent drinking causes all sorts of issues post 60.... Id rather be able to enjoy my grandchildren and know I lived a healthy life to help me do that. Statistically you are more likely to have a stroke, ulcer, DVT if you drink. I may be pious but I like being healthy, Fit and active. Go and see the effects of moderate lifetime drinking then come back and post.

Dackyduddles Sat 06-Jul-13 15:18:33

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expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:19:07

'Id rather be able to enjoy my grandchildren and know I lived a healthy life to help me do that. Statistically you are more likely to have a stroke, ulcer, DVT if you drink. I may be pious but I like being healthy, Fit and active. Go and see the effects of moderate lifetime drinking then come back and post.'

PMSL! Hope your kids have them. Some never do, you know. Some never even want them. I'm not here to put pressure on my surviving children about that. I'd rather they lived their lives as they see fit. If that includes children, good. If not, good, too.

Best not to live for a future you may not have but enjoy the now. Go and see the effects? I couldn't care less. If later life is full of a bunch of boring, pious po-faces, I'd rather be dead, thank you.

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:21:31

Some people like to be very creative in their posting, Dacky. Lot of very imaginative writers here. We haven't had a Hang Smokers thread in a couple of days, so it's time for a Drinking WILL Result in Death thread.

Most entertaining.

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 15:22:23

Not to mention varicose veins, bad skin, brittle Hair and bones, eyesight problems, bladder and liver, erectile dysfunction and my personal favourite "Korsakoffs syndrome". A lot of posters have all these great things to look forward to.and sadly it will my colleagues and I
clearing up your shit and vomit...

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 15:22:44

But Oreo that is your choice. Someone pushing their choices onto someone else is arsey behaviour.

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:24:53

' A lot of posters have all these great things to look forward to.and sadly it will my colleagues and I
clearing up your shit and vomit...'

Because ANYONE and EVERYONE Who Drinks WILL have this happen to them.

No one who lives a healthy, fit lifestyle will ever get any sort of disease, like dementia. They will live FOREVER, to harangue us all about how to live.

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 06-Jul-13 15:24:54

Well, Oreo, sorry but having you at any event, in my imagination, glaring at everybody with disdain, because you don't drink makes me think 'avoid, avoid' at all costs. And I have loads mates that don't drink but they just enjoy without judging anybody else.

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 15:25:18

Oh and I am in my 40s, drink and smoke. My calcium levels are absolutely spot on and I have better eyesight than many people half my age.

Skin and hair are good too.

LookingForwardToMarch Sat 06-Jul-13 15:27:22

Why drink if there are children there?

Never seen pissed people incharge of kids but hey ho each to his own.

Yanbu for not wanting to drink op. You can't howevet stop yout friend from doing it.

(P.s I've been a drinker and non-drinker since dd but by all accounts am not pious nor pofaced grin )

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Sat 06-Jul-13 15:27:34

Ouch OP, poor you, some of this thread has been way beyond vigorous debate.

I posted before firmly sitting on fence due to not enough info.

Just wanted to throw in the thought that 'to judge' is not always an insult, or a negative behaviour! Judgement and having a stance on what's right and what wrong is not a failing. Loving someone and caring that she is endangering herself and those around her is yes, judging, but caring and right too...

Just a thought smile

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:27:56

But you are doing to die, TheCat! OMG! You will never live to see anything. You will die in pools of vomit and misery, looking like the corpse you are, tomorrow.

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 15:30:25

OMG! Really? You mean I won't live until I'm 120 in some miserable state run home? Playing bingo and drinking tea? grin

Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 15:30:36

Op is so judgemental.

You should go, live a little. If you are tee-total that's fine you don't have to drink but being with a couple that are having a glass of wine isn't going to kill you or them.

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 15:33:25

Hahahaha love winding those 'biters' up....

thebody Sat 06-Jul-13 15:35:10

Agree totally expat and YouTheCat.

Op you sound like a blast!!

A few wines on a summer day, now that is paradise here on earth. Cheers😀

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 15:35:52

I have ice cold pear cider in the fridge. Very tempting.

BlameClaimProfit Sat 06-Jul-13 15:39:13

Cut your friend some slack OP, some people are unable to have a good time without drinking due to having to block out some underlying misery in their lives, these people deserve empathy.

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 15:39:15

'Hahahaha love winding those 'biters' up....'

I love engaging with wind-up merchants myself. Lately, loads of opportunity on here. So many imaginative OPs. Was an amusing aside whilst the match was on. But now it's finished. Lisicki lost (good). Off to go and gobble a pack of crisps to clog the arteries in my heart.

thebody Sat 06-Jul-13 15:39:17

Oh and Oreo, my sons friend was blown up in Afghanistan 4 years ago aged 18.. My dds teacher was killed on a school trip. My non drinking/smoking super fit slim mil died if cancer at 64...
My hard drinking/ smoking grandad died at 92.

You never know when your number is up and personally I would rather enjoy the here and now.

rockybalboa Sat 06-Jul-13 15:40:11

Yes, YABU. Very.

LookingForwardToMarch Sat 06-Jul-13 15:44:02


I'm a non drinker atm but I would be ever so grateful if, you know, you could keep that pear cider on ice for me until I'm no longer bf and have a baby sitter?

(Licks lips, lies back and waits)

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 15:48:00

Ooops too late! grin

LookingForwardToMarch Sat 06-Jul-13 15:51:50

Ahhh crap

ShellyBoobs Sat 06-Jul-13 15:52:13

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YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 15:52:56

Is this why you are LookingForwardToMarch?

McNewPants2013 Sat 06-Jul-13 15:56:24

its a glass of wine, which if she is sensible and sticks to 1-2 glasses as well as water It will do her no harm.

LookingForwardToMarch Sat 06-Jul-13 16:03:03

Haha no

Dd was supposed to be born in march (surprised us in feb)

I am looking forward to a lovely pear cider though! I'll have to namechange!

Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 16:03:54

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Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 16:04:04

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Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 16:10:42

' drinking is for adults'
' affects you judgment and makes you feel sick'. No, it doesn't me. I feel fine.
' I have let my children see me slumped in a corner and slurring me words'. Me neither. I drink like fish, but don't get pissed, tipsy, slurry words.

Some of you have wierd ideas of what 'drinking' entails.

Yorkie1990 Sat 06-Jul-13 16:13:18

Yabu. Everyone knows drinkers are more interesting and fun.

X: what did you do last weekend?
Y: got pissed, talked rubbish and fell over.
X: what are you doing this weekend?
Y: getting pissed, talking rubbish and falling over.

Imagine how unfulfilling life would be without such intriguing conversation.

Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 16:16:28

I drink. I don't talk rubbish. I don't fall over.

fluffyraggies Sat 06-Jul-13 16:17:18

There's a time and a place for alcohol, and i believe a kids picnic isn't one of them.

I think OP is worried for her friend. This thread has now become ridiculous with posters even saying they themselves are, miraculously, unaffected by alcohol hmm

CaptainSweatPants Sat 06-Jul-13 16:21:15

Op is hungover grin

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 16:46:16

I agree, drinking isn't for kids picnics! Roll up a spliff instead.

Who are all these people who just get pole-axed every time they drink?

Is there no one who just drinks a glass or two of wine at the weekends and that's it?

MN, it's a funny world (this doubles match is boring).

McNewPants2013 Sat 06-Jul-13 16:49:21

I think chilren do need to see adults drinking sensible.

Dackyduddles Sat 06-Jul-13 17:34:40

Expat, agree ill die of something. Bound to eventually. It's not the responders that bother me. Many are witty or knowledgeable. I just felt the op wasn't behaving as a friend really... I find that more interesting than the actual topic!

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 17:40:19

Exactly Expat, the implication is that none of us who drink (or the OP's friend) are capable of just have one or two glasses. We must all be rolling around, incoherently slurring at each other and covered in vomit. hmm

Kiriwawa Sat 06-Jul-13 17:46:36

I do hate the assumption that you can't parent if you have even a sip of wine. Or that a glass during the day leads to all afternoon drinking.

Some of us can control ourselves

Bogeyface Sat 06-Jul-13 17:48:49

These threads always end like this.

The non drinkers saying that they and they alone will live to 200 and that every one who drinks get pissed every single time, throws up, talks shite and falls over. They will also die in a puddle of their own shit and vomit aged 35, looking like a 90 year old.

It patently ridiculous! My mother likes an occasional glass of wine and she has never been drunk her entire life, yet she is thrown in with the Special-Brew-Crew sitting on a wall shitfaced at 8am grin

Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 17:52:20

Kids picnic is the perfect place for alcohol.

Latara Sat 06-Jul-13 17:59:34

Well I've got a BBQ to go to tomorrow and i'll be the only non-drinker there so i'm nervous; the irony is I loved drinking but I take medication now that means I can't even have a glass of wine!

Futterby Sat 06-Jul-13 18:04:59

YABVU. Don't drink if you don't want but you have no right to judge others on whether they want to or not.

ShatnersBassoon Sat 06-Jul-13 18:05:06

If you're a close enough friend to have known the ins and outs of her illness and the medical advice offered afterwards, you're definitely close enough to say "I thought doctor's orders was no booze," said in a non-judgmental, chummy way.

Coming on here, agog and pointlessly judging, you're going to get flamed.

HeffalumpTheFlump Sat 06-Jul-13 18:07:34

To the poster who mentioned the ice cold pear cider, shame on you. I'm pregnant and now I want that so much my mouth is watering. I can see the droplets of condensation on the glass and can't actually think of anything I want more than that right now. Thanks for that!!!

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 18:08:22

You're welcome. grin

At least 90% of posters on this thread are judgmental and Nasty.

OP is not one of them.

Chiggers Sat 06-Jul-13 18:18:13

There's the alcohol-free pear cider as well Heffalump, that's if you were on about the Kopparberg Pear Cider? The alcohol free stuff is really sweet and lovely, but one or 2 bottles is about all I can handle. I normally drink a 6 pack of Bavarian alcohol-free beer. Tis lovely too.

ShatnersBassoon Sat 06-Jul-13 18:20:28

I just don't know why op didn't say something to her friend. It would have been perfectly fine to say something about going against medical advice (information that op had been privy to). To sit back and criticise is pointless.

Latara Sat 06-Jul-13 18:21:28

Chiggers where can you buy the alcohol-free cider?

I'm off to a bar tonight and will have to be on the Mocktails btw.

nkf Sat 06-Jul-13 18:22:23

Maybe, she won't be drinking. I kind of get where you are coming from. I have a friend who smokes heavily and she was very very ill with an illness exacerbated by smoking. But she gets very angry if I show any signs of being upset or critical of her smoking. You can't stop her. I think you have to process your feelings of concern in a way that allows you to be friends with her.

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 18:22:57

Sainsburys have the alcohol-free pear one.

HeffalumpTheFlump Sat 06-Jul-13 18:23:51

I have just been googling low alohol/ alcohol free cider!! About to go out and get some hehe grin

HeffalumpTheFlump Sat 06-Jul-13 18:24:55

Latara - I'm off to sainsburies, they do a 1% version that is apparently really nice. Hth.

LookingForwardToMarch Sat 06-Jul-13 18:25:05

Oooh I feel a trip to sainsburys coming on!

LookingForwardToMarch Sat 06-Jul-13 18:25:56

Meet you there Heffa haha

Latara Sat 06-Jul-13 18:25:59

Thanks that's me in Sainsbury next week! (I will just have to fake the extra confidence / relaxed feeling I get from alcohol... it's not easy when you are quite shy normally).

YouTheCat Sat 06-Jul-13 18:26:28

I never look at the alcohol free or I'd have mentioned it before. It has been rather a long time since I was pregnant (18 years). grin

Latara Sat 06-Jul-13 18:27:25

Heffalump just realised it's 1% - I can't even have that with my meds.

If you can get 0% alcohol cider then that's what I need.

Mumsyblouse Sat 06-Jul-13 18:39:10

You can- it's called Appeltiser!

charlottehere Sat 06-Jul-13 18:54:02

Really? I mean really? You don't agree with a person who was very ill having a drink and enjoying themselves?hmm

amazingmumof6 Sat 06-Jul-13 18:57:58

we have never been to a family do without the adults drinking a glass of wine with lunch. even a sherry before lunch. and maybe a beer or two later.

we even let some of the older children to have a sip of wine or lick the froth of the beer.shock

poor children must be traumatized for life seeing their parents, uncles, aunts and grandparents having a nice relaxing time!wink


Oblomov Sat 06-Jul-13 19:09:36

You are bothered by people drinking?
Am I allowed to be bothered by non-drinkers? I don't. I don't care if some does or doesn't drink.
But, are you actually saying that I am allowed/supposed to be?

oreocookiez Sat 06-Jul-13 19:11:08

at the BBQ, left the kids at MIL and we are having a good old drink

HeffalumpTheFlump Sat 06-Jul-13 19:43:22

Latara - I ended up with the kopparburg mixed fruit alcohol free cider in the end. It's not too bad. I had to have a donut first to make it taste a bit less sweet, but needs must grin

sweetestcup Sat 06-Jul-13 20:22:42

Enjoying a few glasses of wine at a picnic doesn't make you suddenly develop Korsakofss you know oreo, talk about over dramatizing things...

Cherriesarelovely Sat 06-Jul-13 20:34:27

I don't blame you for being concerned about your friend. It sounds like she was terribly ill. It would be worrying if her Drs had told her not to drink...I can't imagine it is a good thing to drink ALOT under those circumstances. Otoh I know exactly what it is like to go through a hideous time with your health and to just want to have a fun, relaxed time doing things that you thought you would never do again. A difficult one, however, the only options I can see are gently mentioning it to her in a concerned way or letting her and her dh decide for themselves.

HacerCalorHoy Sat 06-Jul-13 20:39:48

Quite a picturesque image, middle class family, couple of well dressed kids having a picnic with a bottle of red. I wonder if people would react the same way to a couple of rough 'uns swigging from cans of carlsberg special brew at 11.30 in the morning on a park bench, which is essentially the same thing.

letsgotostonehenge Sat 06-Jul-13 20:40:38

ha ha hungry wasp!! grin

LadyBeagleEyes Sat 06-Jul-13 20:50:18

How is it the same thing Hacer, what nonsense.hmm.
Even common people with badly dressed children have picnics with a bottle of wine for the adults.

HacerCalorHoy Sat 06-Jul-13 20:58:48

Adults drinking alcohol in a public place in the middle of the day. Does the choice of alcohol or absence of children matter?

Snoot Sat 06-Jul-13 21:38:35

Oh FGS, do people really judge others for having a glass of wine? Does that spread out into cheese, bread, cigarettes? I certainly would avoid such people, what do they do for fun? Judge? Incredible. Glad my friends are not like this, some are teetotal, vegans, whatever but we manage to get along without judging each other. Good luck with that.

skislope Sat 06-Jul-13 22:14:21

What a mad discussion. What is wrong with a few drinks at a picnic in the middle of the day? With kids or without? Whatever next! Wouldn't even cross my mind this is 'wrong'. The mind boggles.

I suppose we ought to be kind and remember that some of the catsbumface posters might have had many a weary social event having to defend themselves against the just-as-rude-and-tiresome type of person who won't leave them alone about their refusal of an alcoholic drink. You know, when you ask for a fruit juice or a cola or a glass of water and there's someone who just won't leave it alone - 'Oh go on, have a beer/some wine. Oh you're so uptight, it will do you good. I suppose you think you're better than us. Are you ill? Are you pregnant? Why won't you have a drink...' endlessly. That can make you a bit snippy with people who like a drink or two even when we have good manners...

imademarion Sat 06-Jul-13 22:18:29

Last time I checked, cheese didn't cause 8,748 deaths last year.

Not does it wreck families and cause trauma to children that lasts their whole lives.

Nor, to my knowledge, does it cause relatively socially adjusted adults to piss in public, start fights over trivia, have sex with random strangers or puke attractively on a bus in front of schoolchildren.

I am aware that not everyone drinks to this excess, but alcohol can be antisocial and downright dangerous.

Pop out to your local high street at chucking out time tonight for further edification.

I think the OP was brave. As I said earlier, if its really not such a big deal TO drink, why does it seem to be such a huge deal to suggest NOT to drink?

echt Sat 06-Jul-13 22:59:34

imademarion How has the OP been brave?

Not so sure about the cheese: if one extrapolates it to include other fats consumed in large quantities, then I'd say far more than 8,748 would be killed by it, and their families devastated. It's a crap analogy isn't it? About as relevant as yours, though.

You say you realise that not everyone drinks to excess, then use the statistics of excess.

The friend isn't proposing a bender.

I can see why you would be worried about her drinking when looking after a 3 and a 1 year old, as they are hardly big and if they do get pretty sloshed, that's not too nice for the little's plus puts them in greater risk as they wouldn't be as aware as they would normally be.

As far as her organs are concerned though, I think it's her choice what she decides to do with them.

I am sure she'd be flattered though that you care so much about her, it's nice to have a friend who cares.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 23:13:35

'why does it seem to be such a huge deal to suggest NOT to drink?'

Because the OP is suggesting it for someone else, in a less than lighthearted, jokey, pleasant way.

That the way she's written the OP makes it seem as though she'd put pressure on someone already under enough pressure.

It'd be a friend making a bad situation worse.

And alcohol doesn't do all those things you say, it just sits there in a bottle, those people would do those things regardless, alcohol doesn't excuse or cause any behaviour, it's just a liquid.

AgentZigzag Sat 06-Jul-13 23:17:50

Although after saying that, I'm wondering whether the OP's taken to the bottle after seeing the thread and she's not up to drunken posting grin

expatinscotland Sat 06-Jul-13 23:18:33

'I think the OP was brave. As I said earlier, if its really not such a big deal TO drink, why does it seem to be such a huge deal to suggest NOT to drink?'

Because adults can make their own choices. The OP can chose not to drink, that's fine. But enjoys being judgey about other peoples' choices.

She said no, they wouldn't be drinking. Fine.

RoxyFox211 Sun 07-Jul-13 07:52:03

Yabu. & over reacting. Not your place to make decisions on her behalf, frustrating though that may be for you.

nkf Sun 07-Jul-13 15:13:31

Most people seem to have missed the point. It's not about drinking with children around. it's about concern about whether someone who nearly died should be drinking. And, if as a friend, it's okay to say something.

MN posters are generally such boozers that even a mild suggestion of restraint is pounced on.

WorraLiberty Sun 07-Jul-13 15:20:56

I don't think the OP has showed any concern...just judgement.

A quick 'Are you sure you should be drinking?' in her friend's ear would suffice.

Mintyy Sun 07-Jul-13 16:48:01

Spectacular amount of missing the point! Mumsnet appears to be full of proper thickos.

deste Sun 07-Jul-13 17:59:23

I know where you are coming from, saw a friend two weeks ago and commented on how well she was looking. She told me she just got the all clear for two months after having treatment for lung cancer caused by smoking and yes she celebrated by starting to smoke again.

AgentZigzag Sun 07-Jul-13 18:03:21

'Mumsnet appears to be full of proper thickos'

Including yourself in that Mintyy?

Not none of yoos are as thick as me.

Snoot Sun 07-Jul-13 20:42:02

I think the point is that it's her business (recovering friend!) and none at all of judgy-judgy OP.

CoteDAzur Sun 07-Jul-13 20:58:30

"I just don't feel "right" drinking on a picnic with children!"

Don't drink then.

"It's so unnecessary!"

So is a picnic. Sometimes people do things for pleasure rather than necessity.

"Drinking is for adults..."

And only adults will be drinking the wine. Do you think they will pour some for their children?

YABU, judgemental, and yes "a big misery guts".

Xmasbaby11 Sun 07-Jul-13 21:54:58

That's a tough one, and I can see why you're alarmed given what your friend's been through. The thing is that she will drink whether you're there or not, so you should go and be a friend. It doesn't matter whether you drink or not. Perhaps by talking to each other you will understand each other better.

JackNoneReacher Sun 07-Jul-13 22:06:38

deste the friends illness was not caused by a glass of wine on a picnic so is really not comparable to your friends lung cancer.

deste Sun 07-Jul-13 23:16:21

The OP said the illness was caused by drinking. It doesn't matter if its on a picnic or at home, it's the drinking again that's the problem. Our NHS is over-stretched as it is without people deliberately going against doctors orders.

JackNoneReacher Sun 07-Jul-13 23:19:47

Where did she say that?

expatinscotland Sun 07-Jul-13 23:19:50

And where is the OP, really? hmm

JackNoneReacher Sun 07-Jul-13 23:26:50

pissed in the park?

MichelleRouxJnr Sun 07-Jul-13 23:52:57

Isn't it 'funny' how non-drinkers make it blatantly obvious they have no idea and yet still pour their ignorant judgements upon those who do enjoy an occasional alcohol drink?
There is a widespread and ridiculous misapprehension that drinking alcohol ALWAYS = falling over, puking, talking rubbish...

Puking? Um ... no, not since I was maybe a 19/20 yr old student.
Falling over?, can't remember ever losing the use of my legs after a few glasses of wine
Talking rubbish? Lively conversations, laughter and debate maybe.

Alcohol consumotion is on a spectrum ranging from a glass of baileys at christmas to clinical alcoholism.
To suggest that any adult drinking any amount of alcohol is at the same level of risk as another is ridiculous.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop generalising and casting your ill-informed aspersions upon adults who actually have experiental knowledge of something you frown upon from your pedastals.

sweetestcup Mon 08-Jul-13 08:11:21

The OP said the illness was caused by drinking.

No they didnt. They said it was multiple organ failure and havent mentioned what the illness or or what caused it.

amazingmumof6 Mon 08-Jul-13 08:17:00

michelle feel free to read back my comment.
I'm a non-drinker. I don't judge people who drink a bit.

you accuse all non-drinkers of being judgemental and blind to the fact that there are levels of drinking, yet you are just as judgemental about noon-drinkers.
hypocritical much?confused

amazingmumof6 Mon 08-Jul-13 08:18:20

noon- drinkers grin grin grin grin ( have I just invented something? )

I meant non-drinkers!

imademarion Mon 08-Jul-13 08:39:41

michelle, I too don't claim to be a non drinker.

But I think planning to drink a bottle of wine (a couple, two bottles, OP to bring her own) implies an emphasis more on the booze than enjoying life, a sunny day, a picnic, your kids, your friends and a second crack at good health.

All of the above are perfectly enjoyable without drinking.

People really don't need to drink to have a good time, and if they do, there's a problem.

imademarion Mon 08-Jul-13 08:45:32


A D&A counsellor I know suggests people ask themselves how they would feel imagining not being allowed to drink for a month.

A shrug? No problem.

Feeling of panic and worry about how to fill the evenings? Maybe think about how important alcohol has become to you.

Howls of fury at how under control your drinking is, what business is it of anyone else's, furious defensiveness and justification? Draw your own conclusions.

As I understand, the OP sees this as a health issue.

An awful lot of people seem to take it as a personal attack on anyone who drinks.

echt Mon 08-Jul-13 08:59:31

imademarion the D&A counsellor's Q and A have no bearing on the OP's question. There is no question of coercion, so not sure what point you're making here.

The OP sees it as a health issue, and others that, health or no, it's not her business to interfere. The OP did rather invite a spirited by response by positioning herself as judgey, so was taken to task on that basis.

Mintyy Mon 08-Jul-13 09:11:34

I would love an update on this one.

YouTheCat Mon 08-Jul-13 09:23:37

Me too.

I want to know if she did go to the picnic and if they all ended up inebriated and slurring, covered in sick.

imademarion Mon 08-Jul-13 09:25:51

echt, the questions were my thoughts in response to those those same 'spirited' replies.

It's an interesting debate, though, how far should/do you go to protect your friends from themselves?

These boards are full of advice to 'sit down and tell xxxx how you feel about xxxx'

I think she's justified in commenting and not wanting to witness her friend doing somethingdangerous for her own health.

LadyClariceCannockMonty Mon 08-Jul-13 09:33:33

How high are your judgypants, OP, and aren't they a bit uncomfortable?

Get over yourself. You don't have to drink if you don't want to.

I'm a non-drinker, by the way, so am not being defensive about my right to get pissed or anything like that.

Bogeyface Mon 08-Jul-13 09:39:25

I think she's justified in commenting and not wanting to witness her friend doing somethingdangerous for her own health.

I dont think that anyone would disagree with you ima

The issue most people had was that instead of having a quiet word with her friend (which what I assume you meant by commenting) about whether it was advisable to drink so soon after her hospital stay, she got snotty.

She was judgemental not only about her friend, but about anyone who drinks alcohol based on the fact that she doesnt drink so doesnt get why other people might want to. She was saying that she was so disgusted she may not attend the event. She couldnt celebrate her friends recovery from major illness because "To almost die...have your life taken away...leave your DC...get saved by the NHS (WTF has that got to do with anything?!) and then to go off and drink alcohol. Wrong." Yet she didnt know for sure that her friend was going to drink, she just assumed the worst, which suggests she doesnt think much of her friend at all.

Sadly there is never any middle ground. The drinkers assume the non drinkers are priggish goody goodies who are smug and sneery and the non drinkers assume the drinkers are pissed up arses who cant face the day without a bottle of wine inside them and regularly wake up in pools of their own vomit. While both do exist, they are by no means the norm, but that doesnt make for a very good bunfight does it? grin

imademarion Mon 08-Jul-13 10:06:53

Bogey, ha! No it doesn't!

I thought your post was interesting. I didn't read the OP as she had been judgy and arsey with her mate on the phone, rather that she was surprised and worried that this Lazarus was planning to drink (at least) a bottle of wine and didn't want to be part of such an irresponsible act.

I totally failed to pick up that the OP was teetotal too!

I absolutely agree about the degrees of alcohol (ab)use, hence my post about questions to ask. Prompted by the furious defence of drinking in contravention of sensible medical practice so shriekingly defended by so many subsequent lushes posters. wink

Annakin31 Mon 08-Jul-13 10:17:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

D0oinMeCleanin Mon 08-Jul-13 10:37:45

I have to drink for the sake of my children. How can dd1 perfectly time asking for the debit card so she can buy a ridiculous pair of shoes I would never agree to paying for whilst sober if I stop drinking?

She waits until I've just the right amount of alcohol. Not enough and I'll say no, too much and I get "silly" apparently hmm and don't say no, but won't tell her where the debit card is or what the password is to the acc she is trying to use because I am "too busy being silly with Aunty X"

She is unhappy atm because Aunty X has gone back home and we didn't have a wine fueled night in together, she is being suspiciously nice to her sister and has tidied her room, she wants something and it's expensive.

VitoCorleone Mon 08-Jul-13 12:44:35

Well its really up to her what she does with her body (although if she has liver damage then id be pretty concerned about her having alcohol)

Not on the same scale, but i have a really bad chest infection and im still smoking heavily. And i dont think id appreciate somebody "having a word" with me about it.

deste Mon 08-Jul-13 17:19:39

Unless she has had liver failure,then I don't see what your problem is. And actually,even if she had ,then I really don't think it's your place to tut.
Well she did hilda. As I said, all her organs were .......thats where it said it was liver failure.

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