If you're aware your child is a spoiled brat - you should do something about it! AIBU?

(246 Posts)
WhistlingNun Fri 05-Jul-13 17:14:05

I've just had the most frustrating conversation with my brother and Sil.

I'm taking my nephew - their 12yo son - away to a caravan holiday next week with me and 5yo dd.

Brother and SIL have just popped in for a quick visit, during which they tried to hand me £500! They said it was his spending money.

Then they tried to give my dd £300 and £100 for myself. I explained that no child would need that amount of spending money for a week at Haven. Most of the entertainment is included, but he might need a wee bit of spending money if he wanted to do extra activities such as climbing wall etc. But only £50 maximum.

I also said that i was only planning on eating out maybe 2 nights out of 7 (self catering) but i'm happy to cover the cost of his meals.

Well, they quite candidly said that my nephew is very fussy and would probably want a burger every night.

They said that i would find my hand constantly in my pocket to keep him happy.

He'd constantly be asking for money for the arcades.

He'll be moody and complaining if i don't give him money to occupy himself while i'm doing things with dd like the kids club.

He;ll be wanting drinks every two minutes.

I tried to assure them that i had a cheaper plan.

I'd buy him in nice quick foods or micro burgers to eat at the caravan. I didn't want my daughter eating out 7 nights and it wouldn't be fair to let him run into burger king every evening when my daughter's having to eat 'boring normal' food in the caravan.

They said he wouldn't put up with this and would go in a mood and probably not eat anything i made.

I said we can all spend a certain amount of time (maybe an hour) going around the arcades, and I'd ration him to £5-£10 per day.

They said he wouldn't be happy about this. He could quite easily spend an entire day at the arcades spending £100 each time. (They suggested i ration his arcade money to £25 a day).

I said he can take one of his portable computers to play (he has an ipad, psp, wiiU and a frigging 3DS) while i'm doing stuff with dd, rather than him doing something that costs money.

They said he gets fed up of his computers after 5 minutes so this wouldn't work.

I suggested i could buy a multipack of capri suns and take some out with me each evening for him rather than buy expensive drinks. They said he will prefer drinks that come fresh from the bar.

They were completely apologetic throughout all of this, stating they were fully aware he was a 'spoiled wee shit' as they so eloquently put it. My SIL says she's just spent over £600 on buying him new clothes for this holiday (almost twice the cost of the actual holiday!) and that she'd had to practically force him to murmur a thank you to her.

I was appalled. I said 'Well in future take him to the likes of Primark."

Then she looked appalled (snobby). "Oh no, he'd not have that. It's all got to be brand name with him."

It wasn't really my place to say, but i said it anyway. "If you want him to stop acting so precious, stop throwing money at him every two minutes."

They said they know it's their own fault, but he's gotten too used to it now, he doesn't know any different.

They left saying that if he plays up - which they anticipate - then they'll bring him home right away.

Now, i've had my nephew stay overnight before - so this week away is a big leap.

Yes, he is indeed a spoiled wee shit. But i don't stand for it when he;s here (which is probably why he hates staying with me!). E.g. the other week, i took him to the cinema and a cafe for a belated birthday treat.

Cost me a bloody fortune. Not one single thank you.

he complained the film was rubbish.

He choose the most expensive pizza on the menu (£20!) then decided he didn't like it. And went in a huff when i refused to buy him the second most expensive item on the menu. So he got landed with a basket of chips. Then all the way home he complained that his mum had bought him a crappy tablet instead of an ipad for his birthday. (They went out the next week and bought him an ipad - the tablet is now in the drawer).

I'm probably coming across as a total bitch here. But i just don't understand. If you know your child is a spoiled brat - why would you just put up with it? Why why why?

Anyway, i thanked them for the money, but handed them back the £400 they'd tried to give me and dd. I then reluctantly took the £500 for my nephew, but assured them he'd be coming home with a lot of change. The blimmin holiday only cost £400!

I love my nephew. I do. And i'm not dreading the week away with him. He'll be good company for me and dd. I'm sort of hoping to drum into him next week that it's possible to have fun without spending a heap of cash.

Wow what a rant! I started this at 4.30 - dinner's a-cinder!

Tee2072 Fri 05-Jul-13 17:22:50

He sounds horrible and his parents sound worse.

I hope you can whip him into shape next week. Good luck!

whalewail Fri 05-Jul-13 17:24:59

Thank goodness he's got you as an aunt!

You go for it!

whalewail Fri 05-Jul-13 17:25:55

His name isn't Dudley Dursley is it?

JaffaMyCake Fri 05-Jul-13 17:26:43

YANBU. If I were you I'd stick to your guns and enforce the type of behaviour you find acceptable, maybe if he sees your children behaving nicely and not being spoilt it might make him slightly embarrassed about his own behaviour.

why are you taking him? TBH i would just take the money from his parents and let him do his thing if that's what he is used to, sounds like will be to stressful otherwise.

Bonsoir Fri 05-Jul-13 17:28:45

I would have taken the money and eaten out (all of you together) every night!

SacreBlue Fri 05-Jul-13 17:30:18

I just wouldn't take him. End of.

mumofthemonsters808 Fri 05-Jul-13 17:34:06

It is very decent of him to offer you the money. At least he has not sent him without any funds. You will probably find your nephew behaves very differently with you because he will be having a different type of holiday from the one he experiences with his parents where money is no object.

wannabeawallaby Fri 05-Jul-13 17:37:16

Yanbu! I feel sorry for the poor boy - maybe a normal - but totally lovely! - holiday with you might make him realise how spoiled he is.

cory Fri 05-Jul-13 17:38:11

I also think there is good hope that the nephew will be a different boy away from his parents. And I do actually feel rather sorry for him, with little or no guidance from parents who prefer referring to him as a spoiled shit rather than doing something about it.

Badvoc Fri 05-Jul-13 17:43:50

I feel sorry for him tbh.
And his parents are at fault.

greenhill Fri 05-Jul-13 17:51:10


How could they let it go on for so long? Their indulgence is completely spoiling him. Hopefully a week with a normal family, such as yours, will chip some of those edges off him and make him more appreciative of them. They do need to rein back their spending on him though, or it will be too late to turn any of this around. I feel sorry for him.

You sound lovely and sensible though.

PennyPennyPenny Fri 05-Jul-13 17:53:15

I know a kid being brought up like this, bonkers parents smile

She came on holiday with me and was a nightmare, the parents didnt pay for her food and offered to collect her if I was going to keep upsetting her

Some parents are just a bit shit

Euphemia Fri 05-Jul-13 17:59:34

Bloody hell, what a wee shit right enough.

I hope you're taking him somewhere nice and windy like Ayr, and that it rains a lot. smile

YoureAllABunchOfBastards Fri 05-Jul-13 18:00:46

Blimey! I sometimes wonder if I spoil mine but going by that I'm doing OK

Optimist1 Fri 05-Jul-13 18:08:53

Words fail me ... these parents are doing their son no favours at all by indulging him and encouraging this spoilt behaviour. Thank goodness he has an aunt who lives in the real world!

I'd say there's every chance that he'll adapt to Whistlingnun rules pretty early on in the holiday, and you'll all have a great time.

GreyWhites Fri 05-Jul-13 18:14:30

Wooah. I would absolutely stick to my guns. This is an idea opportunity to contextualise his behaviour and maybe if you don't give in on all this stuff he might come to see that his behaviour is not on. Especially if your daughter is there too to help reinforce good behaviour. If it works it might also enable your brother and SIL to see that there is an alternative way of dealing with him which doesn't involve just giving him everything he wants.

EstelleGetty Fri 05-Jul-13 18:15:36

You do not sound at all like a bitch. FFS, he is twelve, not four. I would hope, as several posters upthread have said, that he'd learn that he can still have fun when everyone's not falling at his feet and doing his bidding.

LilacPeony Fri 05-Jul-13 18:20:40

He's going to have to work hard and get a bloody good job if he is going to fund spending habits like that as an adult ! I've got a friend who is just like your describe with her kids. Only thing i didn't understand is that you wrote "But i don't stand for it when he;s here (which is probably why he hates staying with me!)." So how come you are taking him on hols if he hates staying with you? I'm surprised he has agreed to go.

WhistlingNun Fri 05-Jul-13 18:29:16

Thanks everyone. I was expecting at least one person to say i was being U... SIL - are you on here?

The thing is though, nephew now knows his parents have given me a heap of spending money for him. And if i don't use it, i'll look like the bad guy. What reason can i have for saying 'no you can't go on the arcades?' The money will be sitting in my pocket.

Same goes for eating out. If i cook him something - even if it's a daft micro burger - he'll not touch it. He'll say 'I'll just use my spending money and get a burger from the restaurant when we go up to the complex'.

He's 12yo. So he can go off for a short amount of time and do his own thing.

And i can't withhold money from him that's technically his.

It's just so infuriating. He's become a snobby, ungrateful little boy. he looks down his nose at me constantly.

He moans my TV is too small, and the other week we were out, i was telling him that he could go and get a wee paper round when he's 13 and start buying his computer games himself.

He laughed and said there's no way he's going out and delivering papers every morning for just a few pounds.

I told him i used to deliver those free papers through people's door - 1000 every weekend - and got paid a penny a paper. £10. When i was 13.

He said i was an idiot.

Makes me thankful actually for not being as well-off as them. I suppose if you have that level of throwaway cash, it would be quite simple to get into the habit of spoiling children, wouldn't it?

WhistlingNun Fri 05-Jul-13 18:32:14

Lilac - his parents are always helping out with childcare with my dd when i get called to work short notice, so i thought offering to have nephew on holiday would be a good payback.

Besides, it costs no extra for him to come with us (except food costs) and he'd keep me company.

I'll probably be tearing my hair out at the end of the week though.

JohnnyUtah Fri 05-Jul-13 18:39:02

Lie to him - tell him you gave the money back. And make his bloody parents back you up! Then you can spend a nice week with him doing it your way (or the highway grin ). I have a twelve year old boy. They really don't have to be like this. And they adjust very quickly once they know the rules. I suppose there's no chance of him coming without his phone? I expect he'll be whinging to mummy if he has it. Maybe there'll be no reception....

Dozer Fri 05-Jul-13 18:39:34

Setting aside the issue of his behaviour, how is he going to be able to afford to continue this kind of spending as an adult?

He doesn't sound like he'll make a successful highly paid type. More likely he'll end up with a gambling addiction.

Dozer Fri 05-Jul-13 18:40:34

You could ration the spending and just say he can't have more than £x per day because on this holiday, you're in charge.

Damn, I was actually scolding myself today for buying DS something from the charity shop two days in a row. Reality check!

It sounds as though your SIL and brother have fallen into letting their son control them. It happens early on if you don't set boundries down from the time they can understand English - I'm seeing the same thing happen with my MIL and her 4yo DD.

It starts out with them just wanting to do nice things for their children, the children become accustomed to nice things, expect them, and the parents keep it up to avoid a tantrum. Then they're left with the sort of situation your brother and SIL is in. It's very sad.

pouffepants Fri 05-Jul-13 18:45:49

Are your bro and sil not concerned about his future?

What do the parents do that they have so much money yet are really stupid?

WhistlingNun Fri 05-Jul-13 18:49:56

Sil's a nurse and my brother has his own building business. TBH i can see them still paying for him like this when he reaches adulthood.

Paying his rent, bills etc.

Either that, or he'll just refuse to move out.

He'll be a legal adult in just 6 years.

The real world is going to seem so foreign to him.

My brother and SIL think they're doing the right thing. SIL says she was always teased at school for wearing hand me downs and not affording nice things, and she doesn't want nephew to ever go through the same.

No. He'll not be teased for what he wears. But i bet he'll get the shit kicked out of him for being an insufferable snob at some point in the near future.

Triumphoveradversity Fri 05-Jul-13 18:52:11

I think your great taking him with you. Stick to not giving in to him.
I wonder why they spoil him so much, any idea?

Report back after the week and let us know how the week went.

Remotecontrolduck Fri 05-Jul-13 19:00:27

You're braver than I am, I would have probably strangled him by the end of the week....

I honestly don't know the answer to the spending money thing. Can you just say no, you have to do what we do and eat what we eat? Give him say £10 a day to go do something he'd like to do away from you? If he agreed to come on holiday with you, he should have to live by roughly your rules. Put your foot down, he has no access to money unless you give it to him presumably.

Good luck!

Mintyy Fri 05-Jul-13 19:03:07

Omg that really is quite exceptionally long!

everlong Fri 05-Jul-13 19:04:10

The parents fault not the boys.
They've allowed it.

thebody Fri 05-Jul-13 19:08:06

Don't like the language and enmity directed at this child.

It's not his fault the adults close to him have let him down.

I feel sorry for him as spoilt kids are so easily squashed and teased by peers and he's just getting to that age.

If the parents do this then it's probably because they secretly like dressing him in designer things and eating out themselves and are in fact blaming him for their choices.

LemonBreeland Fri 05-Jul-13 19:08:43

Actually leave some of the money at home so you don't have it and then you won't need to actually lie to him.

Hissy Fri 05-Jul-13 19:09:27

When he arrives to go away with you, sit him down and tell him that this is YOUR holiday, YOUR rules and YOUR family.

Tell him that you have given the money back and that as it's coming out of YOUR pocket (1) it will be rationed and (2) it will have to be asked for with manners and respect.

All meals will be your choice, if he eats, great, if not, he'll live.

good luck.

PowderMum Fri 05-Jul-13 19:23:29

Loved the bit about not shopping at Primark and only buying brand names, heard this from a colleague the other day too, she wouldn't dream if dressing her DS in anything but brands.

Despite being realitvely well off I am trying to teach my 2 DC about value and working/saving for things. Unlike your SIL I don't feel the need to indulge my children's every whim. My youngest goes away on a self catering holiday every year with her extended family whilst I work, she is given a small amount of spending money, plus I pay for her food to the responsible adult, she does what everyone else does, eats whatever is put in front of her, or goes without, same as when she is with me.

Wuxiapian Fri 05-Jul-13 19:28:49

He sounds awful, OP! The parents sound worse!

Wishing you lots of patience and steely nerves for next week - you are brave!

ShabbyButNotChic Fri 05-Jul-13 19:43:52

Wow good luck! A family friend has a child like this, he is 10 and his behaviour is totally disgusting when his parents ate there. Yet he is nice for my parents/me, funny that isnt it you stupid woman who insists its his character and you cant change it his mum takes so much shit of him its unbelievable, to the point where we tell him off in front of her, and he behaves, while she smiles at her 'lively' damn rude child.

Parents like this do their kids no favours as they know the price of everything and the value of nothing turning into my mum

Hopefully a week away with sane people may have a positive affect on him?? You sound like a brave woman

BridgetBidet Fri 05-Jul-13 19:49:51

I suspect that there is something else going on here. In my own experience when parents are chucking this amount of money at a child it is usually making up for a lack in other areas. Do they spend little time with him and make it up with money? Or do they perhaps have an unhappy marriage which he is stuck in the middle of? I would bet my right arm it's not the being spoilt that is making him difficult but that there's something else going on and another reason he is unhappy and the material spoiling is just a sticking plaster for that.

mrsjay Fri 05-Jul-13 19:56:07

good luck with THAT i am sure he will be fine with you I guess you will use that very rare word NO grin they sound scared of him probably they will be pissed all the week he is away

HeffalumpTheFlump Fri 05-Jul-13 20:00:27

I am completely shock at this. Even more so that his parents are well aware of what they have turned their son into and are not doing anything to change it. It seems so unfair that your nephew is going to continue to act in a way that will make people really not like him and it's not his fault at all really.

I don't however agree with the posters that say not to give him the money you have been given for him. You would be lining yourself up for a massive strop that could very well ruin yours and dd's holiday. It's not your responsibility 'fix' the damage his parents have caused. From your post it doesn't sound like you can afford to just go on another holiday if this one is ruined, so I would play it a little safe! You won't be able to change years of learned behaviour in just a few days.

Good luck.

Also, re the money can you claim you're going to do something really expensive on the last day (on the way home) so you've put aside £400 for that, so he can only have £15 a day for the holiday - then just drop him home?

Or is that horribly mean?

exoticfruits Fri 05-Jul-13 20:25:31

I would follow Hissy's suggestion- it sounds fine to me. Get lots of exercise and wear him out!
(I am still reeling from another thread where the child was taken to the Grand Canyon and wouldn't get out of the car to look!! )

marriedinwhiteagain Fri 05-Jul-13 20:40:23

Two things:

Do his parents actually have time for him?

Is this their way of trying to give you some money to cover the holiday and spend on yourself without saying.

Having said that what they are doing to or for him is not healthy. We don't spend that sort of money on day to day stuff for our DC or eat out every night on holiday. In fact ours were told what the odds were in arcades on their first visit and given a pound maX and when it was gone it was gone. I think we told them arcades might even be a form of legalised stealing!!

WhistlingNun Fri 05-Jul-13 20:48:18

Yep they have lots of time for him. SIL works three days a week, and my brother mainly works from home.

I honestly don't think there's any hidden meaning behind why they're spoiling him. They genuinely believe they're doing the right thing. Giving him the best stuff, so that he'll have friends, won't get teased etc.

Except, by doing this, they've created a monster. Yes, he's got lots of material things. But he has no respect, no compassion, no modesty, and no bloody friends!

It makes me sad.

He's like a teenage baby.

I'm quite angry actually now that they expected me to still let him eat out every night even after i said me and dd would only eat out maybe twice. So basically, me and dd will be eating our little dinner in the caravan with nephew just watching us. Then i have to take him for a dinner at a restaurant/cafe. I'll feel horrible eating my dinner knowing there's a child next to me with a rumbling tummy.

Potteresque97 Fri 05-Jul-13 20:52:25

Is there a middle ground here? Personally, I'd give in on the dinners,make all your lives easier/better, I think it's a reasonable thing for them to pay for, and can't see the other solution workable, but not give in on anything else? I'd try and focus in the rapport with him and not trying to fix him, you can't but he may listen if you just try and connect and have a nice time on your terms. Yes eating out is a waste of money, but having two dinner schedules is going to make your child worse off/bored too.

Dozer Fri 05-Jul-13 20:55:01

You don't HAVE to do anything. You made a generous offer, if they accept then (within reason, obviously) it's your holiday, your rules. If they seriously expect you to go along with their approach, they are BVU and would think twice about taking him.

Dozer Fri 05-Jul-13 20:55:39

Or, just eat out all the time and spend their cash grin

marriedinwhiteagain Fri 05-Jul-13 21:16:22

They've given you a total of 900 quid - surely you can all eat out every night on that and have treats too. You coukld have a barbecue a few nights and get the dc to help marinade, watch, make a salad, etc.. What's the big deal about that.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 05-Jul-13 21:24:59

I know its meant to be a holiday so you may not want any battles.


Take £50. Return the rest. Let him spend his £50 how he likes and don't give him anymore. He's 12 years old. He won't starve. So offer him what you and DD are having and he can take it or leave it,

cumfy Fri 05-Jul-13 21:59:20

Just give Damien's DN's parents all the money back at the end.

Might Damien lose his phone at Haven ?wink

raisah Fri 05-Jul-13 22:28:01

He will test you but make sure he knows that the boundary walls are about 50 feet high. His parents are turning him into a gambler at the age of 12 with his addictin for arcades. It seems that they are paying their way into an easy life, they may not have time to spend doing family things so buying stuff is the next best thing.

His parents could do with going on a parenting course but obviously it would be suicidal to suggest such a thing. They also could benefit from the CAB money management course. How on earth can they afford this level of spending? You should ask them if they are saving any money towarda his college fund, its £9000 tuition fees now but who knows how much it will cost in 8 years time. Its stupid how some parents will spend on holidays, treats etc but wont save anything for their childrens' future.

Your nephew needs a lesson in the value of money. There will come a time that he will not be able to afford all these luxuries & might regret the amount of money spent on rubbish.

Gonnabmummy Fri 05-Jul-13 22:30:34

Give him as much as you think appropriate. If he questions where the rest is tell him you've treated his parents to a weekend away or bought them something nice as they deserve it spend all their money on him grin

foslady Fri 05-Jul-13 22:36:48

Allow him to bring his I pad - you can use it to mn on.......

WhiteBirdBlueSky Fri 05-Jul-13 22:39:06

God they sound terrible.

But it easy to see what others are doing wrong and think 'snap out of it', whilst doing our own wrong things.

So YABU to try to change his parents. YANBU to insist: your holiday, your rules.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 07:33:43

Since you love your nephew, are not dreading the week and think he will be good company for you and DD - I wouldn't worry about it.
I would just explain at the start that your idea is to have a good time without spending money. He is probably a child who doesn't get a lot of time spent on him. You can have a lot of fun with the simple things like a game of cards in the evening. Fresh air and exercise do wonders. I wouldn't even set foot in arcades- just say that you don't do them- it is much easier to miss them out than limit time. He is bound to feel resentful if dragged away. If you are in a caravan he could do a lot of the cooking. Have they ever let him have a sharp knife and chop veg or boil liquids? He is an age where he could plan the meal and do it.
Scouts have a good time and they manage without spending any money.
See it as a challenge to have a great time but avoid places where you spend.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 07:38:05

If he gets bored after 5 mins on the computer options don't take any. Get a few books from the library. Anthony Horowitz got my reluctant reader DSs hooked.( just on his books but it was a start).

xylem8 Sat 06-Jul-13 08:07:23

did he actually want to come?i don't know what a 12 year ood would do at haven for a week with no money and just a five year old girl for company.

Why wouldnt he want to go?My 12 yr old DS come on our family holidays. What should he do instead?

I hope you have a lovely holiday op. I imagine once he realises this is how things are with you, he will accept it.

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 08:20:50

why wouldnt a 12 yr old want to go on holiday confused he is getting money just the OP doesn't want him to spend 500 quid in the arcades

TweedWasSoLastYear Sat 06-Jul-13 08:48:26

Hmm tricky .
You could try to use the week to hopefully educate him a little bit as to the value of money , what things cost etc but this could spectaculaly backfire and he turns into a spoiled little brat who spits constant derogeratory remarks in your direction

Does he know you have been given £500 spending money? Or just 'some' money ?

You could maybe given him £100 at the start and say its got to last a week . 5 days at £20 a day is not an insignificant amount to spend at 12 yo . Then when he has blown the lot on day 2 battle will probably commence.

For a quiter life and abit of a holiday you could try to tire him out with long days on the beach , bike rides ( if they do tag - a- longs for DD )
sign him up for footy or badminton . He will run out of energy eventually.
A walk down the beach is free , visits to local castles also great , keep the cinema for when its raining , and 10 pin bowling .

maybe forget his phone charger?

ps , never been on a Haven hol so not sure exactly whats included , but guessing its like Center Parks

RedHelenB Sat 06-Jul-13 09:03:33

It is supposed to be fun on holiday - personally I would have taken the money offered & you could all have enjoyed it!!

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 10:01:46

you know what ID just let him strop and if he isnt behaving id leave him the caravan to strop about as long as you dont go off park he will be fine say me and DD are going swimming are you coming, NO fine then stay here, you are in charge of him for a week dont pander to him, I feel sorry for him actually throwing money at kids all the time doesn't make them happy they just want more and more

jimijack Sat 06-Jul-13 10:13:35

Thing is if you feel this irritated by all of this beofre you go, what about when the week is done?
If it goes the way the parent are predicting, you and your dd are heading for misery and bad feeling and by the end of the week you are going to be even more annoyed.

Why do it to yourself?

I would seriously consider speaking again to the parents and explaining that you are unwilling to ruin your holiday for the sake of keeping one person out of 3 happy the whole time.

Sounds to me like they are trying to put you off anyway with what they have been saying.

WhistlingNun Sat 06-Jul-13 10:27:38

Thanks for all your posts and advice and contributions.

He knows he's been given the £500.

I'm not comfortable with my dd seeing him getting treated like a little prince (being able to pop coins into arcades every few seconds, being able to trot off and buy burgers/pizzas/ice creams whenever he please, being able to go to the toy shop and buy whatever he wants) when she will be getting nowhere near the same level of treatment. It's not my place to withhold his money i've come to realise. So i think i'll sign him up for costly activities like climbing wall etc so that at least his money is going towards something decent. But there's no pigging way he'll spend £500 in a week at Haven. So he will be coming home with lots of change.

And i'll tell him that the second he moans about money, I WILL be withholding his cash for the day.

He'll be doing his share of chores around the caravan for the week, too, before he starts that rubbish.

The reason i didn't take the £400 they were offering me and dd is because i felt as if if i had, then it would be like i'm agreeing with the ridiculous £500 they'd given their son. Or it felt as if they were 'guilt paying' me. Or that they were looking down on me, thinking that i'd never be able to have a good holiday on my pitiful spending money alone over thinking things due to stress

I've been running around the house all morning like a blue arsed fly (as my good old mum used to say - no idea what it means though except STRESS!).

We are leaving today Saturday to Saturday - not Monday to Monday as i'd stupidly written down on my calendars. I've just located my confirmation letter in my drawer, thinking i'd pack it today to make an early start on things... thank god i had or we'd have missed out on two days of our hols.

Anyway, picking up M (nephew) at 3pm. So shall update later with how the first night's going. I think I'll be using this thread as my little space to rant for the week.

Me and dd are hurriedly packing. I've got a wash on with all our bath towels which i don't think will be dried in time.

confused Substitute for a face that depicts 'arrrrrrggggggggghhhhh! someone help me'

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 10:30:09

oh no enjoy your holiday you loon grin

marriedinwhiteagain Sat 06-Jul-13 10:31:42

Say you have rethought the 400 and make sure your dd is treated as his equal.

They are daft to give a twelve year old 500 pounds to spend at havens. They really are making it hard for you.
Hope it goes well.

shewhowines Sat 06-Jul-13 10:35:13

I'd give him £25 per day and tell him that's it. If he wants to buy a burger later, then that's fine but it needs to come from that money.

Tell him you are doing it because its not fair on you daughter and keep saying that like broken record. Don't engage. Just say no to anything else.

It is a good lesson to learn to budget. Remind him at the start of each day, it needs to last.

If you give in even once, then he will make the holiday miserable because he knows that you will cave. Don't give in and after the first couple of days he should realise its pointless to carry on.

Aren't arcade games 18+ anyway? Surely gambling laws should prevent minors engaging in gambling, and it's not like he could pass for 18.
You could say you can't in all conscience collude in his breaking the law, so arcades are out.
I like the idea of him being able to choose whether to use his money for burgers or spends. That way it's his fault when he can't have dinner out, not yours.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 11:16:49

I would give him the money only if and when he needs it and then make sure he doesn't. I wouldn't go near an arcade- simply say that you don't do them.the weather looks like being good- that will help- stay outdoor and cheap.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 11:19:52

Maybe it is easier for me- we don't do burger and chips, arcades etc on holiday so any child coming with us would have to fit in.

WhistlingNun Sat 06-Jul-13 11:25:14

Thanks everyone but the arcades are everywhere! to get to the clubs etc, you have to pass through the complex which is full of them - those shooting games, ones you put 2ps into, claw machines, more shooting games, ones where you win tickets. It will only be possible to avoid them as long as we stay in the caravan for the week.

I'm going to limit his money for those things. . I'm not going to say he can't go on them at all or there will be hell to pay. Maybe 30 mins a day while dd's at soft play or whatever.

Those towels better hurry and wash!

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 11:37:44

they have kids arcade games EVERYWHERE in Haven

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 11:38:48

Those towels better hurry and wash!

grin that really tickled me OH GOD IT IS TODAY NOT MONDAY poor you

Bluebell99 Sat 06-Jul-13 11:51:48

I feel sorry for him. you say you love him, but actually you sound really critical of him and his parents. I hope you all enjoy your holiday, weather looks like it will be great.

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 11:56:43

I think it is the parents she is critical of and TBh i wouldnt want a 12 yr old stomping about demanding money evry 5 minutes he sounds spoiled but it probably isn't his fault

Tryharder Sat 06-Jul-13 12:13:55

I would eat out every night on that money. Seriously! You're on holiday and it will be nice for you not to have to cook and clear up. Self catering Is all very well when you are skint but if you have the money, why on earth not?

The £100 in the arcade every day is a non starter and ridiculous obviously. My kids get 50p worth of 2ps and when that's gone (in about 10 minutes unless they're lucky and win) we move on. I hate arcades though. I would ration him to £10 and one hour a day.

mrsjay Sat 06-Jul-13 12:16:40

Its the tickets can you imagine the tickets he will win if he spends all his money and going to swap it all for tatt shock

we used to have a caravan on a holiday park and my dds saved up there tickets from all season the still only got a pencil and a aeroplane

I'd 'accidentally' leave some of the money at home. £25 per day, £175 max. Tell him you split up large sums of money to make sure it doesn't all get lost if you lose your purse, have a theft etc (I would do that anyway) and say you left one of the purses at home. if you have the money and try to ration it it will lead to no end of upsets. Better simply not to have it.

Tbh, much as it is tempting to try and teach this child a few lessons in your week with him, you are on a hiding to nothing. He knows he will just be able to go home and continue as he was before. If he is clever and after an easy life he might go along with you but he is 12 and 12 yr olds aren't good at hiding what they think so I doubt he will even do that. Cut out some of the hassle and simply not have the money. Whether you do take it or not is up to you but he doesn't need to know.

I feel sorry for you and you nephew and your DD all for different reason. I have no sympathy for his silly parents.

Sorry I meant I would take £175 max.

Dubjackeen Sat 06-Jul-13 13:31:45

I feel sorry for him, if he has no friends, and is used to getting everything handed to him, life will bring many shocks, in my opinion. I don't think he will be transformed in a week, but I'd try to build in some eating out etc, for all three of you, using some of that money. I am surprised he agreed to going really, I think you mentioned that he doesn't enjoy staying with you? Anyway, it's your holiday and your daughter's holiday as well, so make sure to enjoy it. Hope the towels are dry. smile Best of luck.

xylem8 Sat 06-Jul-13 14:01:44

You invite someone on holiday because you want them to have a good time, not because you want to reform them

Hope things go well for you this week smile

TabithaStephens Sat 06-Jul-13 14:22:16

What his parents are doing is tantamount to child abuse IMO.

Have a great holiday anyway!

greenhill Sat 06-Jul-13 14:28:01

Hope you have a good holiday.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 14:33:49

I am glad we never went to Haven- sounds like hell if you can't avoid arcades. If I invite someone in holiday ,xylem8, I expect to gave a good time. Spending money on junk - or being forced to stand around while a child did-wouldn't be a good time.
Explain at the start how you do holidays and that there won't be much opportunity to spend money.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 14:34:52

I would certainly use it to reform!
Anyway- hope it goes well. Please update later.

xylem8 Sat 06-Jul-13 15:30:14

a 12 yr old would surely go off on his own a bit

EDMNWiganSalfordandBlackpool Sat 06-Jul-13 15:55:33

I caught myself doing this with dc, no where near this scale though!
I grew up on a very low income until I was 11/12 and didn't have the "in" things. So I was determined my dds would. They were taught morals for everything else.

However one of them started to expect it and be rude, ungrateful for stuff, asking if that's all she was getting.

I knew i had to change. I cut right back and really got on top of it.

Its not your place to sort , his parents need to do it.

exoticfruits Sat 06-Jul-13 16:32:24

When we has a 12 yr old, a 4yrold and a 2yr old we spent money on the eldest to do activities like climbing walls or canoeing- we didn't say 'here is £25 - go and play on the machines and get a burger for yourself'.

parkin2010 Sat 06-Jul-13 20:38:03

He sounds spoilt but at least they are offering you the money in anticipation of this, rather than expect you to pander to his every whim out of ur own pocket. In different company he will no doubt behave different, I am willing to bet they spoil themselves as adults so he will regard this as complete normality in their company. x

WhistlingNun Sun 07-Jul-13 07:35:19



WE arrived at 5ish. I asked him to unpack, which he did without complaining. We had no food in yet, so I took them out for dinner.

He sat staring at the menu with his face tripping him. He asked "am I only allowed a main?"I said yes if he was wanting a dessert because the meals (he gets his off the adult menu) are huge.

He picks a chicken double decker thing. When it arrives, I ask him if its nice and he makes a face and says its ok.

Picking a dessert, he says "well theres only one thing I like so I suppose ill have to have that."

Dd was pestering me to take her dancing. Nephew wasnt appeased. I felt guilty so gave him a fiver and said right, im takung dd in to dance for two songs at the club (next door to restaurant), go and amuse yourself for 5-10 mins.

As soon as the money hit his hands, he ran to the nearest arcade and fired coins in. Just ad me and dd reached the door of the club, nephew shows up, arms crossed, and barks "what now?"

I tell him im going to dance with dd, hes welcome to join. He looked horrified at this suggestion, so I found him a table and said we would leave after 2 songs. After one song, I turn to check on him and hes sitting there as miserable as sin. I went and suggested he goes and explores the complex. He said no, not on his own. So I got dd, left with them to explore. He just stands and stares at some shooting game, so I say you can have another fiver and thats it. He huffs and says tgeres no point as that game just eats money and he'd need at least 40 to get a decent go of it.

I was swiftly getting ragey, so I took them to tge supermarket for caravqn food for the week, and brought them home. Although we stopped at the playpark on the way back, which just increased his huffs even though we were there for under 10 minutes.

Back at home, I sat with him through ths entertainment guide trying to pick activities for him. He didnt want to join the youth club. He didnt want to do swimming. He didnt want to do nloody anything! I then sat through it with dd and she picked the panto, roller disco, kids club etc.

So then nephew decided to pick wall climbing and archery etc.

THis is terrible. There are no activities we can all do together! Eg this morning theres a charaxter show dd wants to go to followed by kids club. Takes about 90 mins in total. Whats nephew going to do jn that time? Hes just going to sit there and moan and ruin it. I suggested he go and have a try of tge yough club while dds at kuds club but no.

WhistlingNun Sun 07-Jul-13 07:37:13

Argh! Me eyes! Sorry for random change of tenses and minging spelling. Typing on my phone.

JewelFairies Sun 07-Jul-13 07:42:20

You are a saint to keep patient this far. I feel sorry for him to some extent because it sounds like he's just had money thrown at him to keep him quiet and entertained. Can you go back to old fashioned games maybe and play cards or board games? Your dd is old enough for things like Ludo. Good luck!

exoticfruits Sun 07-Jul-13 07:51:16

He sounds an unhappy child. The money is such a short fix. Even if you give him £50 to waste he isn't going to be any happier- it just buys you a little longer without him.
Can't you forget organised activities and all go swimming- have a long walk etc

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 07:56:39

Blimey! He sounds like a proper little toerag! I would hve no patience for this carry on at all!

Why did you offer to take him away in the first place? I just can't think of anything I would be less likely to do, than look after someone else's spoilt, ungracious brat for a week on my own...even if he WAS my nephew!

Your db and sil are creating a monster that is going to end up making some poor woman's life a misery. That sense of entitlement will stay with him into adulthood now, and already he is quite au fait with being rude, demanding, sulky, critical and arrogant. What a nice person he is. confused

Poor kid - his parents are failing him very badly.

I don't know what to advise you - I'd have ut him straight by now, and he'd not be speaking to me. Bliss.

RedHelenB Sun 07-Jul-13 07:59:55

Can't you go to the beach? It does sound a bit boring for him tbh.

mummytime Sun 07-Jul-13 08:03:26

Have a serious talk with him.
Make it clear, either he joins in and at least doesn't spoil it for you and DD, or you will not be doing anything he wants. You will only give he him money if he has behaved as a treat.
It might cause pain for a day or two but it is the only way to hope to survive.
I be ready to hand him back with a lot of money at the end of the week.

I am surprised he doesn't have some kind of electronic device he can occupy himself with while your DD is at the play park or soft play etc.

It can be hard for teens to join the youth clubs by themselves, but if they don't they need to do swimming or occupy themselves in other ways.

(Tomorrow you could work on please and thank yous.)

Good luck.

Visit the local tourist information centre (or look at the 1000s of leaflets in every Haven campsite) and ask him where he would like to go. Use some of his money to pay for a day out. Somewhere with lots of fairground rides that are free when you get inside! Many places offer a 2 day return as well. Hire bikes and go for a cycle round the local area. You can have a chat about what he would REALLY like to do. I doubt very much that he actually enjoys throwing money into a machine. Try crabbing or a fishing trip (my 12 and 13 yo love both). Find a local swimming pool with flumes. Enjoy yourself and try to relax.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:09:31

I think the 11-16s are very hard to please. We are finding this with our 11 yr old ds1 this year...he complains of being bored on holiday these days.
It's no reason for rudeness though...and certainly is NOT to be rectified by £500 spending money, whereby he is given free reign to indulge himself completely in front of other children, like Prince fucking Golden Boy.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:10:32

I agree with Mummytime btw.

Get. Him. Told.

WhistlingNun Sun 07-Jul-13 08:11:05

Theres loads for him to do. Hes just being a big fuss pot.

Theres a huge three tier swimming centre, bowling, go carts, a farm park next door, wall climbing, youth club, loads of water sports, football, basketball, mini golf, fencing, archery, nature walks, the beach... he doesnt want to do a single thing!

Tried to play snap with them last night and he said it was for babies and he wanted to play switch instead. I said that's too hard for dd and he said well I suppose ill just sit here and watch then.

Argh! Theyre waking up just now so I think im going to sit them down at breakfast and have a firm chat with them both.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:17:22

No...have a firm chat with him. Why are you dragging your dd into this to soften the blow? That's not fair!

Talk to him.

Btw - the holiday sounds amazing for him! My son would be itching to get in about all that!!

He sounds miserable. I agree with Exotic. However, he is not yours to fix, so it's about getting through the week. Tell him you are not interested in listening to, or looking at him moan. Tell him you consider it very rude of him.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sun 07-Jul-13 08:17:34

I don't like this thread at all. Calling him a toe rag?!

I have very little patience for bad behaviour but I know of no boys of his age who would really enjoy dancing with his aunty and little cousin. It's just not cool -despite the onslaught of posts that will now ensue about how it's lots of DS' idea of great fun hmm

Ditto the activities. Did you tell him he had to chose things your DD would like too or did you basically set him up to fail there? Why don't you sit him and your DD down and explain that they can chose one activity each and then work together to chose activities they both like and can do together. Be constructive.

Yes - he sounds spoiled re the money (although, as an other poster said up thread, I think his parents were trying to pay his way and give you and your DD a treat too) . Yes - he should certainly be making an effort to be polite and grateful. However, I strongly suspect he's getting a not very pleasant vibe that he's not very welcome. It's abundantly clear from your posts.

Rather than spoil your holiday, and cause further upset, I would call his parents and ask them to collect him. Boys his age don't tend to burst in to tears, crying that you don't want them there. Part of the issue is that he's clearly spoiled but I think he's acting out too.

Sunhasgothishaton Sun 07-Jul-13 08:18:32

He sounds very much like my nephew was at that age - he told my sister that he didn't like me because I was the only person who ever said "No" to him.

Now at 18 he thinks I'm the coolest, best aunt that he could ever have - and guess what I still occassionally say "No" to his absurd requests.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:19:49

What's so bad about calling him a toerag?
And have you seen the list of activities for him to do?
My son would politely sit through a couple of dances. More even. He's a very typical lad...but he has some manners, you know?

wigglybeezer Sun 07-Jul-13 08:23:14

Don't give him open choices, give him a choice of two options and then stand your ground, no discussing/arguing. 12 is a difficult age for boys, too old for " playing" but too young to be amused by adult stuff for long, 12/13 was the worst age for ds1, attitude wise, he is much more flexible and agreeable now ( not all the time and worse n unfamiliar places).

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sun 07-Jul-13 08:23:18

I've said he should be making an effort to be polite in my post. I've been quite clear on that

This is a child. He needs guidance. Not to be slagged off all over the Internet with increasingly hyped-up posts about his bad, bad behaviour.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 07-Jul-13 08:25:28

It seems like part of his problem is he won't go off by himself?

I wouldn't expect the two kids to share activities. But, he can stay and be unpleasant during hers.

He should wander around on his own. He can sulk about being bored or decide to amuse himself. His choice.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 07-Jul-13 08:25:54

Can't stay and be unpleasant, I mean.

Fluffycloudland77 Sun 07-Jul-13 08:29:59

So he's going to grow up an entitled gambling addict? Marvellous job your sil and db are doing there.

You can't counteract 12 years of crap parenting in one week you know.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:33:59

When I was 14, my mum took me and my bestie to France. It was an absolute disaster. She (bf) did nothing but complain the entire time. She was bored. Everything was crap. She couldn't be bothered. Nothing was good enough. She was rude to my mum, rude to our hosts, and she pretty much ruined our holiday. She was always a bossy, critical, beligerent person...but on that holiday we got to see just HOW.
The friendship of years fell apart on our return.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:35:24

Toerag is hardly hyped up is it? Toerag is actually relatively mild, no?

WhistlingNun Sun 07-Jul-13 08:36:14

No goblin there are limited activities we can do together as a family due to ages, so I had them both circle what they individually wanted to do in the entertainment guide, so we could schedule everything in so they take turns each. It was only when dd started circling like mad, that he decided to pick things.

I agree dancing is a horrible thing for him to have to endure, but couldnt he have grinned and bore (beared?) it for 2 songs to keep his cousin happy?

That's them up. Off to have "the talk".

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:36:43

You can't counteract 12 years of crap parenting in one week you know.

Absolutely. This is about boundaries and damage limitation for the week ahead.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sun 07-Jul-13 08:42:25

I think it's far better to criticise the behaviour - not the child.

I don't tihink its appropriate or constructive to call him a toe rag and I don't like the OP's posts listing all of his terrible behaviour without actually attempting to address it. It seems that it's just grist to the mill for another post.

If he doesn't want to do anything, that's fine. Leave him in the caravan. That means it's actually easier to take DD to all of her activities. What's the big deal?

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:44:41

Jolly good for you. I, however, will express myself as I please thanks.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sun 07-Jul-13 08:45:48

So will I - and say I don't like it if I don't.

NeedlesCuties Sun 07-Jul-13 08:47:01

I don't think the sulking is really the issue. I think all 12 year old boys sulk a bit, especially in unfamiliar places where they aren't really sure on the dynamics.

But.... I think the £500 spending money is outrageous. A huge huge amount for a child that age. That's not your fault, OP, but I wonder about your bro and sis-in-law.

Have you spoken to your DN about his parents, how they are at home? I don't mean a big heart-to-heart, but more informal than that, just to see what his life is like when he's at home.

Does he have any other role models in his life apart from his parents? Any other relations, church leaders, neighbours etc etc?

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 08:48:16

I do agree with you about leaving him in the caravan though!

That's what I'd do. Make him take responsibility for once.

Don't like anything? That's a shame - cheerio!

Gobbolinothewitchscat Sun 07-Jul-13 08:53:00

Hurrah! We agree - pictish. Now hurry up and post something I can argue with you about grin

EDMNWiganSalfordandBlackpool Sun 07-Jul-13 08:55:44

I don't know many twelve year old boys would have joined in dancing tbh.

I don't understand why you brought him, you clearly don't like him, he sounds bloody hard work and as though he didn't want to come either.

halcyondays Sun 07-Jul-13 08:55:52

Well it's understandable that he's not going to want to do all the same things as op's dd. why doesn't he want to go off on his own?

minouminou Sun 07-Jul-13 08:56:11

Some things to ponder, OP. I know you said your bro and SIL work part-time and from home.....this might be part of the problem. Does your brother actually switch off from work when he's home? At evenings, weekends?

He does sound starved of attention, and the money they're flinging at him is a substitute.

I'm self-employed and work from home most of the time, and I have always tried to clearly delineate work and family time (don't always MANAGE it, but there you go). Thankfully, as a copywriter rather than builder, I have the advantage of being able to make the odd call to a fluffy civil servant or fellow writer with one or both child present without looking unprofessional....

I'm also quite worried about the gambling. At 12 he should be able to think about his cousin's needs and accommodate them.

Some friends went on a similar holiday with younger cousins and so forth. Their teenage son had (still has) ADD and at that time of his life was a right handful.
He actually came up with a system himself....he'd thought about it, and told the grown-ups that he'd take his two cousins to the kids' disco every evening for an hour or whatever, in return for staying up an extra hour with the adults when the girls had gone to bed.

This worked really well (this boy is now 25 and a thoroughly decent young man). The reason I'm going on about this is that maybe OP could get something like this going. Not the disco.....can't see that working, but something similar.

pictish Sun 07-Jul-13 09:00:55

I too am wondering why you invited him along in the first place?
Not in a critical way...just curious as to what your motivation was...what you were hoping you/he/your dd would get out of him being there?

Pimpf Sun 07-Jul-13 09:01:55

I would be telling him very firmly that he has a choice to make. He can either buck up his ideas and have a great fun holiday or he can be a miserable arse and have a shit time, it's up to him. Let him know that you will not put up with his sulking and demands and stick to your guns.

So what that he knows about the £500, doesn't mean you have to spend it. You are the adult here, take some of your own advice and don't pander to him

Bluebell99 Sun 07-Jul-13 09:04:01

I think the age gap between the two children is making this difficult. If you had a nephew or niece who enjoyed looking after and playing with younger cousins, it would be great, but this boy doesn't sound like that kind of child. If they were closer in age, they would be company for each other. Thing is, you don't want your holiday to be spoiled. I would have a chat with him, and get your brother to come and pick him up if things don't get better. My sister took her teens, 15 and 13 at the time, to a caravan park and her 15 year old was a nightmare. The 13 year old was fine as he spent his time at the pool. But they didnt want to do any outings with her. Don't ruin your holiday though.

Hissy Sun 07-Jul-13 09:07:19

I agree with Pimpf.

If he sulks, there's no cash.

I agree he sounds very sad, his parents are throwing money at him cos they're not engaging with him.

I'd not allow my child to witness the idiocy of gambling either tbh. Slot machines are cash stealing machines. Wouldn't he prefer a 500 quid wardrobe or something?

Cherriesarelovely Sun 07-Jul-13 09:19:00

God, that's so sad. How depressing and ultimately unfulfilling his future will be if he is allowed to continue demanding stuff and behaving like that. It is literally "spoiling" a child isn't it? A child who could be lovely, thoughtful and appreciative but has been ruined. I couldn't cope with that attitude on weeks holiday but applaud you for trying. We used to have friends with Dcs a bit like this. After years of witnessing their appalling behaviour we finally snapped after terrible spoilt tantrums at Dds party and constant demands on a day out. We dared to broach it with their parents who went ballistic and never spoke to us again. If I'm really honest it was a relief. It's different with family though, Iwish you the best of luck.

EDMNWiganSalfordandBlackpool Sun 07-Jul-13 09:20:17

Is he allowed out on his own at home? Or does he?

To be fair my friends boy isn't allowed to go far and would struggle given sudden full freedom.

Is he used to being taken to activities?

If he is not social he may we worried about going alone, scared of not fitting in somewhere else.

have you offered to take him and stay and watch his activity?

From what I've read so far you took dd dancing and then your taking her to kids club and he's just got to come or find something to do himself.

One of my dc would find this really overwhelming.

She does have sen but tbh he doesn't sound like he has much experience of social groups and has always been around the adults and adult ways.

nennypops Sun 07-Jul-13 09:25:02

Why are they so bothered about him going into a sulk? He hurts no-one but himself. I'd point that out to him and leave him to it. He'd realise eventually that it's actually more fun to be a reasonable human being.

EDMNWiganSalfordandBlackpool Sun 07-Jul-13 09:45:17

I think I would be ringing home and asking for him to be picked up. Its clearly neither of you are going to have a nice time.

KatyTheCleaningLady Sun 07-Jul-13 09:48:57

Why can't you just leave him to sulk? Suggest things to do, then leave it alone.

And ignore the huffs and scowls. Don't ask him if his chicken is nice. It's not your problem.

froggies Sun 07-Jul-13 09:50:17

I am near the end of a weeks holiday with my kids (DD's 4 & 7) DS 16. We went to a caravan park, and DS struggled a bit as there was not a lot scheduled for teens and he doesn't like swimming due to the acne on his back, our funds are limited, and he has generally amused himself with his Xbox (only allowed him to bring it as his friend who was supposed to be coming with us could only come for the latter part of the week), reading he has done abit of the cooking, and he did come on the farm visit with us. Once his friend arrived he perked up a lot and the two of them have been off playing tennis, wandering around and generally just hanging out, we went to the nearby town and I payed for a couple of games of lazier quest for them while I took DD's to the park.

I think what I am trying to say is that it is difficult when you have children with a large age gap, is there anything he wants to do that he might make a friend at, as then he is more likely to want to join in with other things with a friend rather than on his own?

I am not making excuses for the way in which he is behaving, sulking and stropping are not on but it is easy to see how you get in the situation where you say yes to everything. DD's dad gave them £20 each for our week, Dd2 has spent all of hers and wanted a toy in town, screamed blue murder when I said no because she had no money left. Dd1 told me I should get it for her as then she would stop crying as that is what dad does. Hmmm. The answer was still no. Dd1 then told dd2 that she should do some jobs at home and save up for the toy, or ask for it for her birthday. She still wailed but was very proud of dd1. The wailing stopped eventually. It would have been so much easier for me (and everyone else in earshot) if I had said yes, but there has to be a line somewhere, even on holiday.

BarbarianMum Sun 07-Jul-13 09:53:47

<<And i can't withhold money from him that's technically his. >>

Actually, you can. You are the adult. You can keep hold of it, then hand it back to his parents at the end of the week.

I feel really sorry for this kid. Very few people would be kind, polite and generous without some guidance along the way.

xylem8 Sun 07-Jul-13 10:07:50

I really don't know what you expected of this holiday.Did you really think a 12 yo boy and his 5 yo girl which would be much company for one another?

Dubjackeen Sun 07-Jul-13 10:46:37

He may be a bit nervous about going to activities on his own, so maybe try a compromise-he comes along and watches at the activities your daughter wants, and vice versa.

I'd ditch the activities. It is all a bit contrived and if you aren't the joining in type, you aren't the joining in type, spoilt by your parents or not. It would be hellish for me as a child, and I wasn't spoilt, quite the contrary.

Hit the beach. Get him to take a game or a book (does he read?) or a comic. Go and chill for an hour or 2. If he gets edgy and starts complaining, send him for an ice cream or a drink - cheaper than an arcade! He is 12, he should be able to do that easily and if he can't, then perhaps you could give him some encouragement. Building his confidence to do things alone might be the one thing you can do to help him. 'Unspoiling' him is an uphill struggle and I don't think you will achieve that.

Other than that, you are just going to have to ignore as much of the 'moody teenager' thing as possible and just stop trying to keep him happy. Offer once and then leave it. Eventually he will either join in somewhere or he will stay moody and you can leave him somewhere and do things with your DD. I wouldn't be checking on him every 5 minutes either.

I hope things get easier though.

SacreBlue Sun 07-Jul-13 11:50:08

I really cannot understand why you invited him. You knew you disapproved of his behaviour, you surely must have known that he and your DD would have had different interests and you knew in advance you would feel wound up and stressed.

Now you are still disapproving of his behaviour, annoyed that there is nothing for them to do together (sorry have these holiday places suddenly stopped having websites and brochures that you could have checked before going?) and you are stressed and probably getting increasingly irritated - no doubt both kids are able to pick up on that.

I can't think of why you would have done this to all of you?

Where you are at now is damage limitation - I would try and have a chat with the kids about how to make the best of a bad job for the remaining holiday.

This is why I do not invite kids/adults that I or my DS do not get on with (for long periods of time - being polite for a short while is reasonable imo) for a brief period he had a friend I really didn't like and we limited his visits to sunny days when they would be mostly out in the garden/park. Likewise I had a friend he really didn't like and mostly we arranged to meet during school times.

Noone can be expected to get on with everyone all the time. Being forced into close quarters over an extended period with someone whose behaviour or mannerisms irritate you would be horrible for most people. You chose to invite him (unless his DP where really offering you the money to ensure you did take him) and I think it is up to you to make the effort to make it as painless as it can be.

I do wish you good luck in doing so and hope you can find a compromise to salvage the rest of the holiday for all of you.

exoticfruits Sun 07-Jul-13 12:32:30

I would take BigBoobiedBertha's advice- sounds the best in the circumstances.

LaVitaBellissima Sun 07-Jul-13 12:42:34

Good luck, I hope you've brought some wine along!

exoticfruits Tue 09-Jul-13 07:09:02

Any improvement?

ovenbun Tue 09-Jul-13 07:44:08

Wow this boy is very lucky to have you in his life, somebody who gives hime safe boundaries and a firm approach....It is sad that at 12 years old yor brother and sister think it is too late to change things....do they secretly like having a prince to look after? I have seen people foster these behaviours in their children and something about it really doesn't sit right with me...The thing is what kind of adult would they like him to be?

I unfortunately have watched a friend who was treated similarly to this boy grow up...he is a complete tyrant, if his wife cooks him dinner and he feels moody he will tip it straight into the bin, he treats most people in his life appalingly, for example had a massive huge strop on day at me that women get more maternity leave than men...we should have to go back in two weeks apparently, i explained that it takes a few weeks for your body to recover, and if you want to breast feed its hard to go back to work within a fortnight..he just couldnt bear it that his wife got something that he didnt. he regulary storms out or offers big ultimatums to his family if he doesnt get exactly his way,.goes on holiday with his mates leaving wife n children at home because they cant all afford to go...he keeps jobs for two minutes and hands his notice at the drop of hat...never works his notice...and resents others if good things happen to them...its like the empathy and enjoyment of life was spoilt out of him...dont let your nephew go the same way...I wonder if there are some good parenting or self help books around this topic? Anyone know any that could help the parents...a little nero child may be quite fun to indulge but an emperor of an adult will be a complete nightmare....


ImTooHecsyForYourParty Tue 09-Jul-13 07:48:44

I think you're off your bloody rocker! grin

Please don't pander to him.

ovenbun Tue 09-Jul-13 09:13:06

ooh just saw your post since being on holiday....I think like some others said how about a day at the beach that is something they both can enjoy..perhaps a day at some kind of adventure park ?.maybe have a couple of afternoons that he chooses what to do, for example racing you on a few games in the arcade..and some afternoons dd chooses what to do..he must feel a bit of a spare part...sometimes helipng people find their altruism is good...you could ask him if he can help you plan an activity everyone can enjoy? rather than asking him to keep himself busy while you and dd have time together..
I think modelling the right behaviour helps to...talk about how much you are enjoying your meal..dont ask him about his he doesnt know how to say something nice about it ...it isnt his fault that he has been raised to get attention from being ungrateful..

5Foot5 Tue 09-Jul-13 13:37:14

How is it going OP?
With any luck this nice weather will mean you can spend lots of time outdoors and he won't want to be inside hot, stuffy slot machine places.

How about getting a disposable BBQ and having a cook out on the beach. At 12 he would be old enough to help cook and might forget to be such a picky little monster!

formicadinosaur Tue 09-Jul-13 13:49:20

I recon that you need to tell him the ground rules on the way there and then give him a few days to acclimatise. You could even talk to him about the problem and get him to see it from a different perspective

shewhowines Tue 09-Jul-13 14:05:14

I think you need to play cards at his age level too sometimes. DD needs to be patient while you do things for him and vice versa. He needs to see the taking in turns and fair aspect. You can't always include her.

God he sounds a nightmare. And I do have an 11 year old who can be a complete Kevin at times but he'd be banned from all screens and in his bedroom with a book if he behaved like this.

I would stick to two clear choices. eg 'Beach or youth group'.

Is there a surf school or something near by? You could send him off for a 2 hour lesson or even full day holiday club (he'd find some mates then as well) and spend the day on the beach with dd.

Actually I had an issue with ds2 (11 year old occasional Kevin) last November where he needed to join in surfing with ds1 (severely disabled) and ds3 (who loves surfing but is would copy ds2). Ds2 thinks he hates surfing so had a sulk on. I could see the whole day being dreadful and ruined by ds2's sulk - and I did understand that he was only having to do it because of ds1 and that can be annoying, but still, tough luck. I took him aside and said 'look matey boy, we're all going in the water, I don't care whether you do or not - you can join us, or you can stay on the beach and play football, or you can sit and watch, I don't care. But if you do whatever you choose with a smile on your face I will give you fiver. I know you don't like surfing & I know we are doing this for ds1 so I am paying you to be cheerful'. Anyway he came along, joined in and was so busy smiling to get his five quid he ended up having a fabulous time, genuinely enjoyed himself & said it was 'the best surf ever when can we go again?' :hmm:

Could you do something similar but reward with a certain amount of money/time in arcades if he manages to be cheerful

livinginwonderland Tue 09-Jul-13 14:54:16

I think it's a bit unfair to pander to DD all the time. You took him along knowing he was a bit spoilt at home and that, at 12, he wouldn't want to spend his time hanging out with his 5 year old cousin.

If DD wants to play snap, play snap with her for 20 minutes and then play something with him for 20 minutes while she colours or plays with her toys. Find something for him to do while DD is at Kids Club - can you not leave her there and do something more "adult" for him for a couple of mornings? I wouldn't have wanted to do loads of organised activities at 12 either, it's still one of my worst nightmares now!

He can't go on arcades/eat out/buy burgers unless you give him money to do so, so I think you need to find activities you'll all enjoy - yes, they might not be in the holiday camp, but it's only fair that you include him - you did invite him and he deserves to be treated the same as DD is treated. Can't you ALL go swimming together or on the Go Karts as a family, or to the beach for a BBQ? I don't see why everything has to be seperated into DD time and DN time confused

FrenchJunebug Tue 09-Jul-13 15:12:05

Have you tried ignoring him? he might want to join in but feels it would be losing face so if you ignore him, have fun, he might reluctantly join the fun too.

BlackMini Tue 09-Jul-13 15:36:12

Bloody hell, I wouldn't put up with this. I certainly wouldn't give in to his demands for cash, £40 on an arcade game?! Thats almost a days pay in a minimum wage job!!

I would have all 3 of you out doing family activities, swimming,cycling or going to the beach. if he's an only child it'll be something new for him. If you really cant do that, I would pack him off to the youth club to make some new friends.

No way would I give him more than £5 a day. I'm an adult who went away for a week and spent less than hes been given with meals, alcoholic drinks and good activities included.

angelos02 Tue 09-Jul-13 16:06:25

That kid is going to grow up with all sorts of money issues. He must have no clue of the value of things, how long it takes to earn £500 for most people etc. Not his fault of course...the idiot parents.

Remotecontrolduck Tue 09-Jul-13 17:14:38

Even the nicest 12 year old boy might struggle with a holiday like this tbh. Not all kids are extrovert joiner-inners, and nor is that a bad thing. 5 and 12 is a huge gap and he might feel awkward. Neither me or DD is sporty or like activities, though you're not sure what he actually does like (except whinging and gambling). DD was a lovely 12 year old but even she would have done a bunk if every day she HAD to pick between 'swimming or archery', or 'make friends' with other kids. She would have happily gone down the beach and chilled by herself though, or gone for a walk taking pictures.

Can you not try and make him come to a decision about something he wants to do? Not including the 5 year old? Maybe go-karts? Quad biking? Maybe with something like swimming he's a bit self conscious? Go down to the beach for a BBQ?

I'm torn with this. On one hand I think maybe talking to him in a more 'adult' way may gain his respect a bit more, on the other I think that you shouldn't pander to him too much, he clearly is being a pain.

I understand your intentions are good, but it was a bad idea bringing him on this. He isn't going to enjoy it and unfortunately, you cannot MAKE someone have fun. He sounds like he has issues as well, wanting £40 for one game really is something to be concerned about.

formicadinosaur Tue 09-Jul-13 19:33:46

We are quite lucky, my nephew adores my kids. He would spend all his time having fun with them and would be happy to play a silly game if snap. Dancing would be pushing it though! However it is fair that your DD has the opportunity to dance for a short time even if he does not. Maybe a cards compromise would be to let both children choose a card game. Little one chose snap and older one can choose a different card game. Maybe you could use the time to bond more with nephew. Poor chap his parents have given the boy so many issues.

Are you expecting nephew just to take off and go swimming or bowling on his own? The whole place is new to him and can seem quite scary. it might be nice to actually go with him bowling and in the swimming. Once he knows the place, he might happily take himself off. You need to help him have opportunities to make a holiday friend.

WhistlingNun Tue 09-Jul-13 22:19:05

Hello.apologies in advance for my terrible typing on this phone...

No, just to clarify, when I suggested bowling and swimming etc I meant as a trio. Certainly not on his own. That would be horrible.

I only wanted him to occupy himself briefly while dd was at kids club for a half hour. Or when she wanted to dance for 5 mins.

Anyway. Since 'the talk' nothing has improved really. he seems to be totally lacking in empathy. Instead of grinning and bearing it, I've been pulling him up on things now.

E.g last night there was a show on and afterwards I said "yey. Im so happy weve done something that I really wanted to do." He then said "lucky you. I wonder when we're going to do something I want to do".

i listed every single thing hes had since arriving on sat, and he just shrugged.

So far hes done archery three times, wall climbing, shooting, fencing, kayaking, laser quest all mutiple times. These were all things he specifically showed an interest in so I booked with his spending money. Not things I forced him to do. While doing these things I had to stay nearby. Dd was too young for them so we sat patiently and watched. And he seemed to really love each thing at the time.

Yet when its dds turn for similar things, he huffs and moans if he has to wait on her. Yet wont go off to the arcades without me. And apparently his ipad is boring. So its on these occasions id like him to find something to do alone because he doesnt want to sit and wait. And dd has only done a few things and they only run for half the time nephews runs.

Hes not been impressed with having to chip in with the housework.the first time I asked him to do the breakfast dishes... you should have seen his face. "I don't know how". So I calmly showed him. Then he spent 20mins washing his and dds spoons and bowls huffing and puffing. Bear in mind each day I give him the choice of lunch or breakfast dishes. I always do the other plus everything bloody else. Dd washes the table each time and helps me sweep each day. Anyway every day he says "I dont know how" again when asked to dishes think he expects me to say oh never mind ill just do it. No chance.

Ive taken them to the beach and he said he doesnt want to get sand on his socks. So I just smiled and said fine. Left him sitting on a bench then took dd for a paddle. After 20m nephew came over, shoes and socks off, and joined in helping dd find sea animals in her net.

THat seemed to be a turning point. Ive just decided to ignore his huffs and carry on with what we had planned and agreed upon. Whether or not he wants to join in is up to him.

Apparently his parents have went to visit friends til friday so theres no one to send him home to even if I wanted to.

Ive asked him a few times if hes happy and he assures me he is.

He has said with a big grin hes just a negative person.

Euphemia Tue 09-Jul-13 22:35:57

Ive just decided to ignore his huffs and carry on with what we had planned

I like this plan!

You have more patience than I - I would have lost it with him long before now!

SacreBlue Tue 09-Jul-13 22:50:55

"He has said with a big grin hes just a negative person"

I find that sentence remarkably sad from such a young man sad

I hope things have turned a corner & you all can enjoy the rest of the holiday xx

Euphemia Tue 09-Jul-13 22:57:31

He sounds like he's been given so much, always bigger, better, more, that he doesn't know how to find satisfaction. He's always looking for the next thing. Very sad. sad

pictish Tue 09-Jul-13 22:59:55

Ive taken them to the beach and he said he doesnt want to get sand on his socks. So I just smiled and said fine. Left him sitting on a bench then took dd for a paddle. After 20m nephew came over, shoes and socks off, and joined in helping dd find sea animals in her net.

There! That was brilliant! Exactly the right course of action.

He does sound unhappy. Sometimes you wish you had a magic wand eh?

Remotecontrolduck Tue 09-Jul-13 23:10:53

I think you're handling this really well actually.

He can probably see by now that if he doesn't join in, he's going to have a crappy time. By the sounds of it he does deep down enjoy these activities too which is great, a holiday like this might be good for him.

Trouble is, at the end of the week, he'll be returned to the useless mum and dad and revert back to how he was. Is there anything that could be done to help him a bit more maybe? 12 is young still, I think things could be rectified. I don't know what though.

Pimpf Tue 09-Jul-13 23:24:22

I actually feel sorry for him. His parents obviously think throwing money at him is the solution and it clearly isn't.

You have the patience of a saint and hopefully things will turn around

EDMNWiganSalfordandBlackpool Wed 10-Jul-13 02:04:07

He sounds like a pretty sad little boy tbh sad

McGeeDiNozzo Wed 10-Jul-13 03:31:18

This has GOT to be nipped in the bud NOW, or it could manifest itself in much worse behaviour later on. Get some kind of boot camp marine guy in or something. Go on telly. This is extreme!!

shewhowines Wed 10-Jul-13 08:33:43

He's telling you how he feels at the time - typical 12 yr old doing some things he doesn't want to. But you've seen him enjoy things. You've found the way to handle him. Well done. Now you know what to do, perhaps you can relax a bit and laugh a bit more with him. Gently tease him?

It sounds as if he will look back on this holiday with happy memories.

Maybe talk about being cruel to be kind. How making him help etc is teaching him how to be a responsible independant youth. The negative person comment shows he does have some insight. Can you talk to him in a bit more of a grown up way? Can you give him some extra responsibilities he may enjoy? Would you trust him to take DD to the camp shop on an errand for you, for example? Could you ask him to do you a favour and use his imagination to occupy DD for a few minutes while you do something? Don't push the favours, if he won't but be appreciative if he does anything first time or without moaning.

You've set the boundaries now stick to them and enjoy the rest of the holiday.

5Foot5 Wed 10-Jul-13 13:34:43

Does he enjoy reading? Or is that a silly question? If he had a good book he could surely pass the time with that while waiting for something your DD is doing.

Any rock pools to search with the net? I still find them fascinating. Or building dams - that's good fun on a beach.

5Foot5 Wed 10-Jul-13 13:35:19

Oh and I meant to say well done. It sounds like you are coping really well under difficult circumstances.

BumpAndGrind Fri 12-Jul-13 00:21:47

How did today go OP, any easier?

WhistlingNun Fri 12-Jul-13 13:09:40

AAaaaaaarrrrgggghhhhhhh! I am sitting here trying hard to stay calm. Apologies again for my horrendous phone typing skills.

He is the most miserable and insufferable 12yo baby I've ever met. And yes now I certainly do sound like a bitch. Today has been the worst.

Last day of the holiday so Ive taken them both on a day trip to a farm pArk. I asked if he would rather stay in the caravan and he assured me he wanted to come.

SInce we arrived hes...

PUshed dd down a giant tyre slide because she was too Slow. My dd has sen and gets confused with instructions a lot. This resulted in a quick visit to first aid. Nephew stands by what he did and wont apologise.

He yelled at me for buying the wrong juice from the kiosk. After a week I should know by now what he likes apparently.

He started rattling a fence at the animals to scare them and thought this was hilarious.

He told me he was hungry so I said wait till dd has finished feeding the animals (nephew didnt want to because theyre disgusting) then we will go for our picnic. Dd was 'taking too long' so he grabbed the bag of food and tipped it on the ground.

At lunch nephew refused to wash his hands. I said hes not eating until he does. He then grabbed our lunch bag and threatened to throw it in the bin unless I let him eat too. Everyone was looking and nephew was laughing his head off. Seems daft but I nearly Started crying.

Dd went off to play in the park while I had my sandwich. I told nephew to go explore or go in the older kids teenage section or go on the quads. He said no. I said why dont you take the caravan key. Ill call a taxi and you can go back. He said no. So he sat at the table with me huffing and sighing. then he started kicking the fence next to us despite me telling him 6 times to pack it in. I would have physically tried but hes built more like a 16yo than 12. Hes 5ft 9!

Yes hes a reader. He bought 3 bks in town the other day in town but had apparently read them all that night.

HIs parents havent called once to check on him. But hes home tomorrow. So im sure I can do another night without calling them up.

Worst and most stressful 'holiday' ever.

Euphemia Fri 12-Jul-13 13:15:54

Make sure you tell his parents what his behaviour has been like, and that you will not be offering to take him anywhere ever again!

5Foot5 Fri 12-Jul-13 13:16:40

Oh God! Until your latest post I was beginning to think you might be winning him round - what with joining in the paddling and so on. But on today's account he sounds like a thoroughly obnoxious brat.

You sound admirably calm considering. I don't think I could have done so well. I would have lost my rag by now and yelled at him to start acting his age or worse.

Will you say anything to his parent's when he goes home? Being spoilt materially is bad enough but his behaviour today sounds utterly vile.

Not long to go. Poor you!

WhistlingNun Fri 12-Jul-13 13:35:52

I don't5 know if ill tell them what hes been like.

THey did warn me in advance but I just underestimated how bad he really is. He just wants to break things all the time. Hes constantly rattling fences or walls. He said its because hes bored.

Dont want to hurt brothers and sils feelings by slating their son. When they ask how hes been I think ill just give a very forced and unconvincing "hes been fine" then consider this a lesson learned.

Honestly think our aunt nephew relationship is ruined now. The thought of even taking him out for an afternoon ever again fills me with dread.

LJL69 Fri 12-Jul-13 13:38:26

I suspect while it might be wearing, he will get a lot from this week away. It may not last when he gets home and back to the parents but it may stick in his head for the future

5Foot5 Fri 12-Jul-13 13:41:45

Dont want to hurt brothers and sils feelings by slating their son. When they ask how hes been I think ill just give a very forced and unconvincing "hes been fine" then consider this a lesson learned.

You are much nicer than me.

I think I 'd be tempted to say "He has been a total PITA and I am never taking him anywhere ever again. But fair does I was warned!"

LJL69 Fri 12-Jul-13 14:10:28

Can I add that this behaviour on the last day might suggest he is acting up because he is going home? He may not be looking forward to it. Perhaps he has had a better time than you think and may have quite liked the security of the boundaries you have put in place. Also may have enjoyed you talking to him rather than throwing money at him?

Fluffycloudland77 Fri 12-Jul-13 14:23:30

Some poor woman is going to end up marrying him sad

Remotecontrolduck Fri 12-Jul-13 16:26:54

Nah I'm sorry you need to tell his parents what an obnoxious little horror he is. There is absolutely no need for that behaviour.

Terminate your relationship with him, stop putting the effort in now. Tell his parents to sort him out. Let him know that unless he wants to apologise, he's no longer welcome in your house, on holiday or anywhere else.

You don't need that kind of crap, I'm angry on your behalf. Emotionally damaged by his parents he may be but at 12 he can take a certain amount of responsibility for his behaviour.

Remotecontrolduck Fri 12-Jul-13 16:29:52

That sounds very harsh reading it, but I'm afraid any non SN boy that pushes a 5 year old girl resulting in a first aid visit and thinks nothing of it isn't worthy of your time

I would tell his parents - unemotionally and unjudgementally what he has done. I imagine they know - that's wht they offered you so much money they knew it was going to be hard.
A certain amount of sulking and complaining is to be expected from a 12 yr old- he has gone way beyond what's acceptable tho and I feel sorry for everyone involved..

WilsonFrickett Fri 12-Jul-13 16:57:35

OK so I have just read this thread - firstly well done for getting through it!

I do understand that you now want to cut ties with him, I completely get it, but please, please, don't. I'm not suggesting taking him on holiday, or even out for an afternoon with your dd - but please do keep communication open with him. He needs you and one day he will realise that and (hopefully) come to you for help and support. Because he ain't getting that from his parents.

exoticfruits Fri 12-Jul-13 17:26:22

I would keep the lines of communication open- he is a very unhappy child. No contact all week from his parents tells you a lot. However, don't take him on holiday again and I would tell them, in general terms, how it has been.

shewhowines Fri 12-Jul-13 19:01:58

Try not to say too much in front of him, but i'd definitely try to have a serious chat with his parents about what it was really like and how worried you are about his future. Obviously you will have to guage how far you can push it without ruining your adult relationships, but you owe it to him to try to get him some help. Maybe they are worried about it but don't know what to do about it. Maybe they would be open to an outsiders perspective. See if you can suggest going to the doctors for to ask for help or parenting classes or something.

Give it one last chance to get them face up to reality.

JewelFairies Fri 12-Jul-13 20:13:32

I disagree about not saying anything in front of him. He's twelve and if his behaviour is unacceptable he needs to be told in no uncertain terms. He may smirk but at some level it might get through - I wonder if he's ever been told off before. I would tell him quite clearly that his behaviour is awful and give him examples of where he went wrong. I'd also tell him
He will no longer be invited to visit or spend time with at the very least until he apologises for pushing your dd.

I'm fuming on your behalf OP

pictish Fri 12-Jul-13 20:18:52

I tthink you ought to tell your db and his wife exactly what their son has been like this week.
They should know.

RandomMess Fri 12-Jul-13 20:22:15

I would ask your nephes in front of his parents what he thought of his behaviour over the week - will be interesting to see what he says...

HouseAtreides Fri 12-Jul-13 20:49:11

I'd tell his parents- but I'd tell him first.

The thing is he knows his parents will do nothing...

sarine1 Fri 12-Jul-13 21:20:44

I'd ask him what he thinks his behaviour's been like. I suspect he's had a better time than you realise but has been thrown by being outside his comfort zones. He's been with an adult who he can't manipulate and that's both comforting (boundaries) but scary as he's used to getting his own way.
He sounds so in need of some parenting with boundaries and consequences. Good on you for giving him a chance to see a different family in operation. It MAY have an effect later on.

Hissy Sat 13-Jul-13 07:32:35

His parents haven't called ONCE?

That poor boy.

I know he's as annoying as shit, but telling 2 people that don't care is pointless.

I'd talk to him and say that while I was sure it made a nice change to sitting at home doing nothing, and that you were sure that he's enjoyed SOME of the week, i'd like to know if he thought i'd want to invite him again, and why.

Then i'd say no more, until he answered.

Hissy Sat 13-Jul-13 07:34:16

THEN i'd bollock his parents privately for doing SUCH a shit job of raising a young man.

ILovePonyo Sat 13-Jul-13 08:06:08

Also fuming on your behalf OP.

I think you should tell the parents how he's been, they won't be surprised but at least they'll see how his behaviour has resulted in you not wanting to take him away again.

Could you speak to him too? Say something like "I feel like you've not enjoyed our holiday. And I feel your behaviour was unacceptable bcos of..." If he says he has enjoyed it and is just a negative person (or whatever he said before) then I'm a bit stumped to be honest confused

I feel for you though OP.

Whothefuckfarted Sat 13-Jul-13 08:27:19

They sound like silly cunts who will ruin their child.

exoticfruits Sat 13-Jul-13 08:29:12

I would tell his parents what he was like, but the one thing you can't do in RL is criticise their parenting- not if you want to continue your relationship.

yawningbear Sat 13-Jul-13 08:30:29

I agree with LJL69. I think it is very telling that the worst behaviour happens on the last day. It is all very sad and the outcome for him looks very bleak unless his parents drastically changes their ways which seems unlikely. Sounds like you have done brilliantly though OP.

Figgygal Sat 13-Jul-13 08:37:27

He sounds insufferable but also feel sorry for him he sounds very confused/unhappy. Hope you get home today without killing him

helenthemadex Sat 13-Jul-13 09:34:44

I do think it was always going to be hard with such a big age gap, which would mean that they would be interested in totally different things. I know others have said that in families there is often the same sort of age gap, that's true but then the kids have grown up with it and are used to the comprimises that are needed in a family.

I'm not sure that he sounds that different to a lot of pre-teen kids to be honest, hard to please, grumpy, fussy and pushing boundaries all the time. What is different is that he is used to not having any boundaries and getting what he wants all the time

I hope you and your dd managed to have some fun and enjoy your holiday

TweedWasSoLastYear Sat 13-Jul-13 09:48:49

I feel sad for you WN. You try to do a nice thing for your family and it turns into a nightmare. He does sound unloved and unwanted and to some extent un-parented . No rules , no boundary's , no consequences . Not good for the future , at least you tried .
I do hope you and dd managed some fun times in between the little horror show .
oh . just how much of the £500 did you spend??
I think i would be keeping the balance for trips for me and DD over the summer hols. A little thank you from the little shop of horrors.

That is utterly, utterly miserable that his parents didn't make contact the entire week. I know you've said they do make time for him as SIL works part time and your brother works from home, but he clearly spends a lot of time with the insides of their wallets and not much else if they didn't phone once in an entire week apart from him. Sickening.

I agree that you have to tell his parents, as objectively as you can, exactly what his behaviour has been like as they are so used to paying him off they may not be aware that they're nurturing a delinquent. If their response is, 'Well that's why we gave you that money', you can either keep a lid on it or let rip and screw the consequences. I'd do the latter because I really don't think I'd want to maintain a relationship with people who bribe and emotionally neglect a child.

greenhill Sat 13-Jul-13 10:32:43

whistlingnun what a shame that your DN hasn't tried to join in as a family with you and your DD.

As he is 12 and 5 foot 9, maybe his teenage hormones have pushed him into brat category a bit early. Maybe he will have fond memories of the holiday to relay to his parents even though it has been horrendous for you.

It certainly sounds as if his own parents have neglected his personal development and spoiled him with too many treats and rewards for bad behaviour in the past. How could they (and his school) have allowed this arrogance, selfishness and destructiveness to continue for so long? If only they had worked on this when he was younger, hopefully this behaviour isn't set in stone now...poor boy. Neglect comes in many forms.

I wish your holiday had been a happier one for you and your DD flowers

WhistlingNun Sat 13-Jul-13 19:04:02

Thanks, everyone.

Home at last - bliss!

DD's away to bed for an early night and I'm sitting with my first cup of decent tea in 7 days.

Never. Again.

I'd pulled nephew up on all his behavior. I said some pretty harsh things actually come Friday evening. I called him spoiled, a pain, i told him he's ruined mine and dd's holiday, i pleaded with him to tell me why he acts the way he does. Each time i told him off, he just ignored me and looked a wee bit sad. But no answer whatsoever. And then a few minutes later, he'd be back to normal.

My brother came and picked us up today. He seemed so pleased to see nephew and gave him a huge hug. Nephew started telling him all about our holiday, all the activities he'd done and asked me to show his dad the pictures i'd taken.

I couldn't spoil the mood by telling my brother how bloody awful he'd been, so i just kept fairly quiet and bit my tongue the whole journey home.

Before my brother arrived to pick us up, I'd asked nephew how he felt about not speaking to his parents for a week and he did seem quite sad. He asked my brother on the way home why he hadn't phoned to talk to him, and my brother told him it's because he and SIL didn't want to seem like busy bodies, and they assumed he'd be having too much fun to chat with them...

Now that I'm home, i feel really guilty, like i could have tried harder or been less harsh with him.

Remotecontrolduck Sat 13-Jul-13 19:09:48

No I think he needs someone to be harsh with him. He needs to understand his behaviour is completely unacceptable, especially as he isn't a little kid now. He needs to take some responsibility, especially for the disgraceful violence against your DD on the last day.

However I would leave the door open for him to talk to you, if he was willing to apologise. He seems quite messed up.

You've done your best, it's more than a lot of people would do.

buildingmycorestrength Sat 13-Jul-13 19:25:25

It sounds like a family headed for crisis. It is so sad.

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with the parents in terms of whether you could make some positive suggestions, but you could maybe point them in the direction of something like the 123 Magic guy who has, I believe just written a book for parents of teens.

Or, some kind of family therapy might be necessary.

ouryve Sat 13-Jul-13 19:30:40

I know exactly where you're coming from.

Have fun!

ouryve Sat 13-Jul-13 19:31:15

And just realised the thread is a week old and you've already had your fun!

ouryve Sat 13-Jul-13 19:57:52

And now, having read the thread, that last day was all about being pissed off about it ending. I think it's quite telling that he CBA with the arcades all that much, either. They're obviously just a distraction for him, normally.

DS1 does that, but he has ASD and ADHD and has always been prone to huge meltdowns. And he never gains anything by it.

ouryve Sat 13-Jul-13 19:58:52

"That" being the acting out the day before a transition, such as finishing a period staying with my parents.

TarkaTheOtter Sat 13-Jul-13 20:11:54

Not excusing his behaviour to you and your daughter...

But I'd guess he never wanted to go and his parents talked him into it (possibly with a bribe of £500 spending money) because they wanted a break.

I can't imagine many 12 year old boys would want to spend a week with their aunt and 5 year old cousin. I also think its an age where they struggle to go off and entertain themselves too. It was the age at which my parents started letting us bring friends on holiday with us. He's being very ungrateful but my guess was that he was bored.

formicadinosaur Sat 13-Jul-13 20:46:25

You need to tell the parents about everything. Then you need to ask them to get professional help so they can parent better.

formicadinosaur Sat 13-Jul-13 20:47:01

I think there is no excise for such appalling behaviour

kalidanger Sat 13-Jul-13 20:47:51

I haven't read every single post so I don't suppose I'm the first person to say that I can imagine nephews DW on here in 15 years, tearing her hair out.

He's 12 and he's been ruined but his parents. It's fucking sad sad

WhistlingNun Sat 13-Jul-13 21:03:02

But i don't understand why he was bored.

All he does at home is play online playstation.

Last week, i suggested dozens of age appropriate things for him. He said no to pretty much everything - go karts, quads, roller coasters and other fairground rides, archery, wall climbing, etc etc etc. He eventually did a few of these things though, and did seem to enjoy them.

And if he wanted on the Playstation, he could have rented the one in the activity centre - but he said no to that idea, too.

He went home with about £300 change.

Oh, and i've just received a text from SIL asking why i had given nephew fizzy drinks last week as apparently he's not allowed these with his new brace.

I don't drink fizzy drinks, nor does dd. We drink water. It was nephew who asked for them and i thought nothing of it. Surely he should have said if he wasn't allowed?

I thought this stress would have gone once i'd come home. If anything, it's worsened.

CSIJanner Sat 13-Jul-13 21:05:06

Actually wanted to say well down for the week with your nephew. His behaviour on the last day was shite, especially to your DD, but I think that he kicked off because the holiday was coming to an end plus he realised that his parents hadn't called him at all. It must be pretty shit to realise that your parents pay you off, palm you off (giving money to your aunt for the arcades etc) and not call. His shrugging off and acting normally when you had words with him is classic guilt denial that my 4yo exhibits. It will sink in and you'll probably be the adult he turns to later on.

Enjoy the cuppa. Then have a ice cold one. Tis earnt!

CSIJanner Sat 13-Jul-13 21:05:52

Ad if he wasn't allowed fizzy drinks, you would have thought they would have mentioned that when they gave you the money!

ouryve Sat 13-Jul-13 21:08:10

Oh, so she does have a boundary for him?

Never mind the indulgence, the inconsistency sticks out like a sore thumb.

Is here a possibility your DN might have SN?

He may well be spoilt but it doesn't sound like he would be happy even if he had all his money and was allowed to spend all day in the arcades.

I don't know, maybe I am making excuses for him. I just haven't met a child who behaves that badly who doesn't have something else going on.

buildingmycorestrength Sat 13-Jul-13 21:15:31

Dear Lord, he's allowed £500 for the arcade (which is patently insane) and they can go through every detail of all the crazy things he must be allowed to do, or baby will pitch a fit, and then they have the NERVE to moan that you let him have fizzy drinks when they didn't even mention it?

I am incensed on your behalf. That is NOT the way a grateful SIL behaves. angry.

BBB I was thinking the same thing. Asberger's traits aplenty cropping up, but how would you sort out the disorder from the byproduct of shitty parenting confused

And SIL had the fucking NERVE to pull you up on something after you'd treated her son to a holiday, and her to a week off where she clearly didn't give a shiny shit at any point about her only child? Let rip, OP. would you be able to maintain a relationship with your brother if you put SIL's nose out of joint? Alternatively, could you calmly and objectively put down the salient points of DN's behaviour to your DB for him to mull over at his own leisure?

WhistlingNun Sat 13-Jul-13 21:30:55

My dd has HFA. I totally understand that no two people on the spectrum are the same, but to me he doesn't seem to be anything other than used to getting his own way.

He doesn't have many friends but i think this is because he just chooses to sit in all day and play his computers. Not because of any SN.

He did seem to be tremendously bored. Constantly sighing and huffing and theatrically yawning. Asking 'What's next?' every five minutes.

Which is infuriating because i made sure they were always entertained/doing something and asked him multiple times a day what he wanted to do.

pictish Sat 13-Jul-13 21:33:55

OP - why did you offer to take him?

WhistlingNun Sat 13-Jul-13 21:39:48

I'm in tears now. Argh, i'm such an idiot.

I think all this week's restrained stress is finally coming out.

I've just text SIL back and said

'I'll call you tomorrow for a chat, too tired just now. M (nephew) didn't say anything about not being allowed fizzy drinks. In fact, i'd bought him a bottle of water one day and he practically threw it back in my face. Apparently he doesn't like it. He had very weak diluting juice most of the time, so i'm sure the few bottles of pop won't have done anything to his brace. Didn't the orthodontist tell nephew what he was and wasn't allowed to consume with them in? I would have assumed nephew would tell me if i'd given him something he wasn't allowed.'

Very lengthy and rambly, but hope she gets my point. I have a funny feeling that nephew is currently moaning about me to my brother and SIL telling him how horrible i was and how dreadful it was being made to do all sorts of things he didn't want to...

Why the hell did i bother?

Levantine Sat 13-Jul-13 21:40:27

So difficult, he sounds very unhappy. I think you have done really well. My guess is that you are more important to him than he is letting on.

pictish Sat 13-Jul-13 21:41:42

It all sounds very stressful OP. You've been keyed up by this all week, so it's no surprise that it's all flooding out now. Have a good cry. You'll feel better for it. xx

WhistlingNun Sat 13-Jul-13 21:45:00

Because i've had nephew for a day out and overnight before. He's good company when he's behaving, and can be pleasant so long as he's happy and doing something he likes.

I never for a second knew just how badly behaved he can be. I thought my brother and sil were exaggerating.

I thought that all he needed was to be told 'no' a few times and then he'd change. Yes, i'm an idiot.

I've never been on holiday before with just me and dd. I usually go with my parents. So i thought i'd ask nephew along for some company for both me and dd. They've always gotten on on the afternoons they've spent together previously.

I seriously underestimated how different a day of him is compared to a week of him.

CSIJanner Sat 13-Jul-13 21:45:27

^ what Levantine said ^

You actually sat down with him, talk to him and gave him time. You also pulled him up on bad behaviour. I think you're very important to him, more than he lets on.

Your SIL is being rude. Pull her up on it, especially if her text didn't start with "Thank you for having our son". If it was be, I would even throw in the "if you actually gave a shit and phoned him up even once in the week he was away, it would have shown him you missed him and that you gave a damn"

But the OP is far nicer and more patient than I...

pictish Sat 13-Jul-13 21:49:44

Yep ok - I just wondered, because you did seem well aware of his behaviour right at the start of the thread. I guess you just didn't think it could get as bad as it did.

Well...it's over now. Stiff drinky for OP xx

HenriettaPye Sat 13-Jul-13 22:27:06

Just read the whole thread OP.

I think you were very kind taking him away and you were very patient with him.

Some people on here have been very harsh- he is 12 years old- he is a child, and does not deserve to be called a toe- rag or a little shit on an Internet forum. Nor do his Parents deserve to be called cunts. confusedconfusedconfused

I am assuming he is an only child? If so, he is just not used to having to wait around and do things other people want to do. I know that doesn't excuse his behaviour, and he really should have tried harder but I'm sure it was difficult being away from his parents, and I don't really blame him for not wanting to go off on his own in a strange place.

M0naLisa Sat 13-Jul-13 22:36:48

I wouldnt be taking him sorry!! I cant be doing with spoilt little brats!!!

M0naLisa Sat 13-Jul-13 22:37:59

Sorry didnt read the whole thread!

M0naLisa Sat 13-Jul-13 22:54:09

I would tell the parents exactly what he was like. He sounds like a spoilt brat, they need to be firm with him, he is 12 now whats he going to be like at 16/17/18!! They should have nipped the spoiling him in the bud years ago!!!

TarkaTheOtter Sat 13-Jul-13 23:10:29

Oh whistling you are the good guy here! Don't be upset, you did a lovely thing.

I think you might have been a bit stitched up into taking a reluctant teenager in holiday because his parents wanted to go away. I think he didn't want to go (because he's a teenager and wanted to sit in his pants in his room playing Xbox) and they convinced him with stories of arcades and £500 spending money. He realised that wasn't the case and threw a week long strop.

Don't write him off permanently, I know some atrocious teenagers to grew into lovely adults. For what it's worth at that age I would have been only 1 or 2 years off trying to get served in the bars, smoking and generally being as devious as possible - whilst always being polite. I've somehow become a responsible adult.

5Foot5 Sat 13-Jul-13 23:13:32

I am assuming he is an only child? If so, he is just not used to having to wait around and do things other people want to do.

I don't want to hijack this thread but I just had to say FGS can we please stop here with this lazy stereotyping. I am surely not the only parent of an only who is not spoilt and who would NEVER behave like this and is very good at joining in with a group.

LadyBigtoes Sat 13-Jul-13 23:21:06

Wow OP flowers and wine for you. What you have done was incredibly kind and a massive effort. Never mind 500 (shock) quid, you've put yourself out for a week to be an actual parent and adult to this poor kid. I think it speaks volumes that he wanted to come.

All the huffing and sighing and demanding and terrible behaviour are, for whatever reason, the only way he knows how to express himself, but in a week, which is no time at all, you did actually get through to him a couple of times. And you showed him for a few precious minutes what it's like to look for sea creatures and interact with people and that that can constitue a nice time. The rest of the time you dealt with his problems and confronted and contained him over and over, instead of saying here's £50 now bugger off. It was a heroic effort, no wonder you're exhausted and drained.

Of course it would take a lot longer to address the whole issue, that's not going to happen by the sound of it and you certainly shouldn't have to do it. But I would (once you've recovered) try to be around for him if he ever needs to talk or needs to address what's wrong between him and his parents - he's coming up to being a teenager and that might well happen.

I am beyond shocked at the financial figures involved. £500 for a 12-year-old for a week, £600 on holiday clothes and him needing £40 just for a go on the arcade or it's not worth it... <faints> It's just so terrible of them to be teaching him that this is normal. Just by showing him how normal people behave with money, even on holiday, and that respect for money matters, you're giving him a different view on things that he may well come around to one day.

HenriettaPye Sat 13-Jul-13 23:23:59

5 foot- I didn't say all only children were like this! I was one myself for 14 years confused

However if he has never had to wait around on other people and always got his own way, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in saying that.

internationallove985 Sat 13-Jul-13 23:57:05

I can honestly say I have never spoiled my D.D as no good will ever come from spoiling a child.
I've never been afraid to let her face adversity. This may seem harsh but she is going to go out one day into the big bad world that is not going to give a damn about her feelings! I have never fought her battles. It's nothing to do with me when she falls out with her friends she has to sort it out her self.
My D.D is my absolute world and is loved beyond imagination. We have an amazing relationship.
However she is very very independent and can do anything cook clean iron. I kind of feel redundant but my friend told that if your child is independent then it's supposed to mean you're a really good mum.
Also £500 is a ridiculous amount of money for a child. However I am not going to be critical of your nephew as I would not have any be critical of my D.N. xxx

5Foot5 Sun 14-Jul-13 00:09:52

Sometimes I see it suggested on threads that the OP posts a link to the thread to the other involved party. Too inflammatory?

RenterNomad Sun 14-Jul-13 11:09:01

In "telling his parents what he is like," do be sure to stress the good moments, so that they realise he does have them, and can behave, not to mention that he can show how bloody sad he is, and aware of it (that "negative person" comment was quite a brave admission).

If you only tell them the bad things, they will think there's no hope, and no reason not to continue with the hell of their family life.

ZingWidge Sun 14-Jul-13 12:55:19

sorry OP, reading your first post gave me a headache.
not your fault though!

£500 for a 12 year old as spending money for a week is excessive.
and £300 for your 5 year old?
some people really think money is everything.

wanting to contribute would have been nice of them, but wanting to control you like that is not on!

I would not put up with any of that crap, of being told what to do!

I feel sorry for your nephew that he can not occupy himself without having to spend money and that he is indulged so much.

I hope you have a good holiday and that you can show him a better time than fruit machines and burgers!

WhatNow2013 Sun 14-Jul-13 13:33:10

I've jsut read this whole thread... it sounds to me like you did absolutely all the right things and he may well look back on this week and think 'this was what I needed, really'.

He sounds like the only way he gets attention from his parents is by being negative and miserable. I can understand that; I have friends who are only interested in me when I'm unhappy, and I had to get out of the habit of only ever moaning to them (because I felt like if I said I was happy they'd be like 'oh ok we don't need to bother then! bye!'). It's a hard habit to break as an adult. He's got no incentive to be good and nice because it doesn't get him anywhere at home. By being automatically horrid about things it gets him instant attention and pandering.

However this doesn't mean he gets to spoil things for you and your DD and it doesn't make it ok. It sounds like he actually had a good time but wasn't able to express it because he's never been able to? Don't know if that makes sense. Oh and also I reiterate, just because there might be a reason WHY, doesn't mean it is an excuse!

Kleinzeit Sun 14-Jul-13 15:39:35

Hey whistling – you did a good thing by taking your DN on this trip. Sorry it was such a tough one! You did well by your DN.

Wanted to say… I am worried by what your DN did on the last day. Most of the things you described, OK, spoilt and grumpy but rather lonely 12yo boy with 5yo cousin, not an easy combination, a lot of the kind of stuff I’d expect. But what he did to your DD on the last day… no.

Does anyone else think this is, well….. not normal behaviour for a twelve year old? I understand about the last day being a trigger for a bit of temper but even so. Taking your DD’s animal-food and spilling it on the ground because he wanted lunch is not normal behaviour from a 12 year old. A much younger child, yes, maybe, but he is twelve not seven. Pushing your DD down the tyre slide because she is too slow – again, he is a 12 and she is only 5. That is behaviour I might expect from kids with certain kinds of SN (the kinds of SN that interfere with empathy and/or impulse control) or else from kids who are quite deeply disturbed. But not from an ordinary 12yo who is not having a very good time on holiday.

Is there anyone here who could imagine our 12 yos doing that, and whose kids don’t have SN?

I asked my 15yo DS about some of the behaviour, and he said yes, most of it was 12yo stuff. The refusing to join in, or to express enjoyment, gratitude – all very teenaged! But he also said that taking the animal food was something he would expect a much younger kid to do (he called it immature, and he suggested buying more animal food for your DD so your DN would have to wait longer for lunch as a sensible consequence! smile) And as for the slide, he said that was just weird. He could understand keeping away from a much smaller child, and he said he could understand pushing a kid who was a similar age, but not pushing someone so much smaller.

And if I really stick my neck out, I think your DD might not be the only one with an ASC. Yes, the signs may be different from your DD, but at the moment his parents expect him to behave badly, and you’ve noticed his lack of empathy yourself, and there are lots of other minor things which are very like several Aspie boys I’ve met (including my own DS) Plus there’s his overt aggression to your little daughter which is quite unlike any of my DS’s NT friends at that age, and they were not saints. You ask why his parents put up with it? Well, denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. Maybe they’d rather call him a spoilt brat than a kid with SN.

Somewhere upthread you mentioned your SIL looks after your DD a lot? I don’t know if that’s a good idea when your DN is around. If your DD has HFA then she may have communication problems, she may be very trusting, she may not be able to tell anyone if she’s scared or if he hurts her again. Unless you are very sure that your SIL is protecting your DD, I’d rethink.

Sigh! Anyway what you did for your DN was lovely and something he'll treasure, even if he never says thank you! flowers

cory Sun 14-Jul-13 16:06:26

Agree with Kleinzeit's ds; the moaning and not joining in sounds like typical 12yo stuff but pushing a smaller kid or taking their animal food seems very much like a much younger child.

digerd Sun 14-Jul-13 16:16:25

12 years-old and 5'9 already! Wonder if he is bullied or teased by the others, or he is the bully?
No excuses for his behaviour to you and DD, but he sounds to me as if he yearns and has done for some time , to spend time doing things with his parents. He is unhappy/angry.

Does he have friends his own age? Doesn't sound like it to me.

SoupDragon Sun 14-Jul-13 16:22:01

i've just received a text from SIL asking why i had given nephew fizzy drinks last week as apparently he's not allowed these with his new brace.

The only answer to this is "because he asked for them and you didn't tell me he wasn't allowed them"


You sound like a saint!!

myBOYSareBONKERS Tue 16-Jul-13 19:28:20

Especially when he is allowed anything else he wants! !

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