To find attachment parents pretty blooming judgemental and smug(214 Posts)
Or is it just me.
Raise your childhowever you want, different mums & different babies etc etc but at the moment I seem to be getting exponents of gentle parenting, attachment parenting, co sleeping, baby wearing ramming it all down my throat, sharing links on facebook to articles about how much they pity parents who use CC, etc etc
Mumsnet also seems to also be full of people who recommend these parenting styles i.e. sitting in a drak room for hours holding your
toddlers hand in a darkened room until they fall sleep, condemning people who use sleep training methods, want an evening sans child etc etc.
Maybe its just all the mums I know who are doing this 'parenting style' are a teensy but self righteous. I think it really annoys me because of the insinuation that I have failed my child (not responding to their needs/breaking the maternal bond etc) by
doing it another way.
I am prepared to be flamed - but does anyone else out their feel the same.
Fine if you want to be an attachment parent but please stop preaching on about it like you have reinvented the wheel!
Personally I am VERY glad i never discovered MN til Dd was at school
Sorry about all the typos - using an iPad
Perhaps it bothers you because you feel guilty that you have done the things that you have done? Because if you truly believe your choices are correct? What everyone else does wouldn't bother you.
I haven't done AP or non-AP or anything else but what my instincts have told me to do. And I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else posts or says or shares on FB about parenting.
If it bothers you, perhaps you should rethink how you parent.
I'm just winging it tbh. Mumsnet couldn't help me
Do what you want. Ignore the others. It's easy really.
Oh i dunno I sort of agree with you in the
dark ages past folk just parented their babies no parenting style it is a bloody minefield these days, I know a lovely woman who attachment parents ( is that the right words) and she is lovely and not smug , the parents I work with compete all the time it is exhausting
Actually people are allowed not only to parent how they want but to talk about it on facebook etc.
If them talking about their own experiences makes you feel judged then you need to look in the mirror for the source of the problem.
I'm not sure anyone actually parents any differently form donkey's years ago, they just have names for it all now.
Path Of Least Resistance Parent over here.
Some AP types are smug and self righteous. But so are some non-AP type. I find either type quite irritating.
Have a look at sanctimommy on FB if you want some light relief from it all.
im feed up of being told to stop bf my 19 month old and to put her in her own bed and in her own room. To stop spoling her and its ok for a baby to cry for hours.
I disagree my baby my way.
Eveyone else can do what they want with their baby.
Maybe a little harsh, but I do agree that AP parents seem to be allowed by MNers to imply that their way is the right way; whereas if you have done CC etc. and were dogmatic about that, then you would get shot down in flames...
Oh the irony of it all. In moaning about being judged by others you've made a sweeping judgemental smug accusation against a whole group of other parents
I'm more a lazy arsed parent which apparently roughly translates to AP. I find it equally as annoying the judgy parents / professionals who insist I ABSOLUTEY HAVE TO sleep train / use CC / spoon feed my baby / insist my DD used a pushchair rather than sling... the list goes on and on.
I honestly think that it doesn't matter what you do as long as you get your kid to 18 without killing them or leaving them in need of long term therapy, apparently I'm in the minority!
Erm... I suppose I use/d 'AP methods' with both of mine, although never refer to it as that and don't really discuss it (apart from now that is). I just do whatever works for us. Slung dc1 everywhere because public transport in the country I lived in is shite and easier to avoid the dog poo, mostly sling dc2 as have the dog with me and also quicker to get in/out the house.
As for co sleeping, neither of the buggers would/will sleep alone and frankly I'm too lazy to 'sleep train'. Again, the easiest way to ensure we all sleep.
Can assure you that if dc2 develops the ability to self settle I'll definitely feel smug, but certainly don't feel that way about what I'm doing.
So, you're wrong.
What is attachment parenting anyway? I've not come across it (i think)...
All a bit judgemental really - as you say Runes, which is exactly what we're all moaning about.
It should be: my baby, my way. And just ignore anyone who doesn't have anything useful to add. But it's such an emotive subject for us Mums, that it's sometimes hard to ignore - especially if going through a particularly tough phase with dcs!
I think some of the judgyness comes from the fact that AP style parenting requires a level of self sacrifice that is a bit
a lot higher than other styles of parenting. And some of us just aren't up for that. And it doesn't make us worse parents.
I tend toward the attachment parenting side of the fence myself- I just find it easier and it works for me and my baby. I don't think it works for everyone though, I'm not dogmatic about it and think how you deal with your baby is down to personal choice and preferences. I don't bang on about it to other parents or get judgey at people who use controlled-crying or formula feeding because they decide what's best for their own kids; it's none of my business.
I think "attachment parents" are mostly just trying to do the best thing they can for their babies/toddlers, and when they are coming from the heart, should be given credit for that.
Yanbu I know exactly what you mean. Although I would apply this to anyone who has a system for raising babies/children and believes they have THE answer to everything for every child...... And as for people saying that you are feeling guilty over you parenting style what a load of bollocks. Attachment parenting etc might work for some people but it's not the only way and I would say especially hard with 3 plus kids
I think most parents are trying to do that too ARealDame?!
The phrase "attachment parenting" makes me shudder.
The first time I heard it I felt like puking.
What - so the rest if us are, by implication, unattached?! WTF.
In hindsight I did a few of these so called attachment practices myself because it felt right - and I didn't do others eg co sleeping. They were very personal private decisions I made and would have happily discussed if asked but would never have worn as a badge.
Hop i just found my new favourite page on Facebook....
Yes, but they don't attack non-attachment parents as "judgmental and smug". So I don't understand the defensiveness/anger myself, of non-attachment parents if you like. But maybe there is something about attachment parenting they despire, and yes, I wonder why.
I did the Bitsa style Bit a this bit a that
I don't get why some parents need to find out how to parent from books. Surely it's a learn as you go kind of experience?
I don't care how others have done it. However anyone who preaches anything at me would be given short shrift.
And mine are now 18 and I haven't maimed them yet.
I think it depends. Some parents arrive at AP in an attempt to survive the shitstorm that is colic - and they might be the least judgy parents you could meet after having the romantic idea of babyhood decimated over 3 long months.
There are annoying people and nice people. They can use any method and I do not care. YANBU because sometimes people like to be a bit 'evangelical' about whatever they think its the 'best' AP, Gina Ford, Vegans, any religion --actually maybe not any religion as I have never met an 'evangelical' Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish person.
I think there are parents coming from all perspectives who are totally unable to accept that anyone who does things differently from them may have a point. But this is true not just in parenting, but in many areas. Some people are unreflective, unempathic, small minded, arrogant and smug. Just try to avoid and ignore them, and don't let them undermine you.
See, I would never claim that the fact that my daughter, at nearly 15 months, still bfs to sleep, is a good thing! Could have tried to teach her to self-soothe, didn't, not proud, not ashamed, it's just us and our relationship. Ditto how I weaned her and everything really. If they are as well and happy as they can be, then I reckon we're all doing a good enough job!
I did non-AP with ds1 an AP with ds2 for lots of different reasons.
But I would like to feel I am non-judgmental on the way any one parents, I am firmly in the do what suits you camp, stuff what anyone else thinks. My sister did CC with her children, it worked for her.
I always think, this is your child, and no one is living in your shoes right now to be able to judge the decisions you make. What is easy to do with one baby might be difficult to recreate with a baby and a toddler, or twins etc.
Ignore anything that you don't agree with on FB.
YABU - anybody who has a label for their parenting is smug, not just attachment parenting. People who preach about CC or 'routines' are just as smug as those who do AP. You are unreasonable if you can't see that.
For the record, I veered more towards the AP than the other way because CC and routines didn't work and CC particularly was horrible for me and horrible for DS1 (didn't bother with DS2 after the epic fail first time round). There were plenty of people to make me feel bad about not using those methods though. There are judgy people at all points on the spectrum.
And mine are now 18 and I haven't maimed them yet.
see that is how you know how you did a good job by not maiming them and they get to adulthood unscathed
I did AP, though I wasn't aware of it at the time, it was just my instinct. I do hate CC and think it is a mistake but I keep my opinion to myself unless asked.
I don't judge anyone who is doing their best.
although i do think parents can parents how they see fit I do find it odd that they insist their way is the right way and never veer off the path, babies do not come with manuals I always wonder if parents who adopt a style it something doesn't work out then keep trying and making them and baby distressed baby rearing is all about compormise IME
you can hide them on facebook - it's really simple.
Or not read the links.
There was a really good blog recently (possibly a mumsnet blog) about not letting yourself feel judged by other people, just be confident in your parenting style and stop worrying/judging other people who do it differently.
YABU - it's not all about YOU!
This may help
The only type of parents who I find smug, judgemental and just a chore to be with are the competitive ones.
Even worse are the ones who compete to be the most laid back, child centered and non-competitive ones.
I get sick of this debate, the most pointless thing ever. Today someone writes a post 'everyone on mumsnet looks down on AP'ers', next day, 'everyone on mumsnet looks down on CC'ers'.
And the idea that many people at all actually pick 'a style' out of the range available and stick to it forever!? Seriously, how many? I get labelled as a lentil weaver for slinging and cosleeping, but then a hardass for putting my incredibly heavy child in a buggy now! People dub me as lazy for not putting my child to bed at a set time, but then claim I'm 'making work for myself' by doing this.
Newsflash - I'm none of things, I'm me, getting on with my life....so suck it!
Why do so many people get hung up on it? Agree that if you think you're being judged by the facebook sharers stuff...look in the mirror for the root of that problem!
I find any parent who is smug about anything (and that includes "I know what Im doing and Im going to shove my opinion down your throat even though you haven't asked for it" grandparents) bloody annoying. Ill do what works fir me and my family TYVM.
Don't hate AP as such, just the fact we seem to need to 'label' different forms of parenting. I know what you mean about the smugness though, I've come across that once or twice and just ignored it. I just couldn't 'babywear' either, also a term I hate, but each to their own.
YANBU. I was like this with DC1. Twins soon battered that out of me. AP/Gentle Parenting etc just doesn't translate easily into anything that can be put into practical use with lots of very small children. Routine and firm boundaries do.
Of course I could just try harder, like the AP woman I saw blogging, with twins and triplets born very close together, who was determined to feed them ALL herself, and just locked herself away in a room.
I think it's the martyrdom of AP/GP that's equally annoying - like of circumstances (or hanging on to your sanity by the skin of your teeth) dictate that another way is tight for your family, then you've just not tried hard enough.
I loathe the term "attachment parent" but would not wish to make a sweeping statement about a group of people. The name alone does appear quite smug as a previous poster said, are other parents unattached?!
Hello seems to me that there is a lot of 'smugness' as OP called it but in my experience this is from all sorts of parents. I am regularly shocked at how smug and judgemental a lot of parents are. Until I became a parent I had no idea how competitive a lot of people are about their parenting.
Rest assured any I meet will get a thorough analysis .
I think I get what the OP means - it does feel to me like there is more of a judgy attitude towards CC etc than co-sleeping on MN. But I think this may be because of a reaction to how 'society' views these things. People are viewed as being odd doing attachment parenting (you're still breastfeeding??? you baby sleeps in your bed???) so I can understand a defensive attitude being taken. This can sometimes overspill into an offensive attitude towards other parenting styles.
Tee: Because if you truly believe your choices are correct? What everyone else does wouldn't bother you.
Absolutely. If the people OP is talking about were truly confident that they were doing the right thing, different choices wouldn't bother them.
They would feel absolutely no need to constantly parade their choices about on social media or in public.
No OP, I do not agree with you. Cc advocates are just as self-righteous and rather condemning and patronising to those who 'sit in the dark room holding toddlers hand'.
I wish everybody would just shut up about what they think is right and do things whichever way they choose. Without advertising it to all and sundry.
I much prefer my 'detached parenting'. Leave them in a room with a bucket, a bag of crisps and a copy of the radiotimes until they are 20.
I wish everybody would just shut up about what they think is right and do things whichever way they choose. Without advertising it to all and sundry.
Yabu somewhat. Its not that attachment parents are all judgemental per se, its just that a lot of the more vocally judgemental and self satisfied brigade on the internet do AP. Parenting has fashions just like anything else. No doubt in the 2020s there'll be something new. Also bear in mind that mumsnet and the parenting blogosphere generally is disproportionately middle class and therefore probably contains a higher percentage of AP types. If you were able to look at the parenting population as a whole, there's probably no higher a percentage of know it all dickheads in any particular group, its just a question of who you get exposed to.
I think the points about people who feel the need to label their parenting are well made, though.
I am glad in a way that was I was quite young and naive when I had my first two and thought the idea was you just muddled along and did what was best you as I think i would have been completely paranoid. There was no internet in our house either until they were into toddler years
Why are you labelling or branding your style of parenting? That's v weird.
I'm just me. Dacky mum. Comes with its own ishoos but I prefer mine to someone like Gina fords thanks.
I think that it's not just artachment parenting people but just people who think they are right no matter what or that they know it all.
Plenty of people who use CC are completely adamant that you will ruin your child by letting them have their own way, rid for your own back etc etc
Depends on the person, like most things in life really.
Personally I just wing it and ignore everyone else as much as humanly possible
could we have some more styles of parenting to choose from? Id like to define myself in a uniquely smug way
I've met a couple of vile attachment parenting advocates, but they'd be vile if they'd jumped on the "parent standing on your head upside down" bandwagon too - they're just twats, who've decided to label themselves.
Yes AP seems to attract some loud, judgemental thought-policey type people at present - give it a few years and it'll be something else.
The melodramatic "I weep for your poor child" when someone dares to do something different to you is fucking vile emotional blackmail type bullshit though - and hiding behind "you need to look in the mirror" is crap - when you're dealing with people trying to do the best they can with a little person they love, sleep deprived, hormonal, badgered with "miracle solutions" from all angles - some people need to back the fuck off but sadly half the internet is infested with it.
I love the sanctimommy page for putting it all into perspective how ludicrous it all has got.
There's nothing new here. People through the ages have patented differently and probably some were 'attached' some did cc etc.
However now they are 'methods' and the only reason for this is to sell books to gullible parents.
Never ever be smug as a parent as it bites your arse.
I seem to get by with a bit of common sense combined with motherly instinct.
Personally I didn't really feel the need to buy a book telling me how to raise my own children but I guess everybody's different.
But the "I didn't need to buy a book/instinct/benign neglect" can be just as smug.
I knew nothing about children before dd, now I know very slightly more than nothing and practically everything I have learnt is specific to my child alone.
From the other pov they probably get all the "rod for your own back" chat and people telling them their ideas are wrong - to the point they feel they have to justify everything they do.
I doubt they are smug though - more you judging them and feeling insecure about your own choices.
As for really smug folk - I reckon you get them in every walk of life/parenting etc
Hi folks sorry for the delay in coming back to you but I've actually been holding my toddlers hand whilst he falls asleep!
I love mumsnet - when you let off some steam you guys actually come back with very thoughtful and considered responses (on the whole). I definitely don't have a parenting style and just muddled my way along best I could, but I think I get a bit irate and defensive as I was the first in my group to have kids and since then others seemed to have done a scary amount of research and keep on preaching at me, "we are the only species that try and keep our babies as far away from us as possible as soon as they are born" etc etc and are very loud & fixed on their viewpoints. (& I'm sleep deprived and grumpy!)
I probably am a bit insecure if I'm honest but only because these people seem so damn sure of themselves!! Maybe it's all a front though.
I love 'stop pointing that avocado at me' - its the best article I've read in along time and prob hits the nail on the head - it's my new philosophy in life!!
I can see whatever parenting style you have you can feel judged now and then. Maybe the whole term attachment parenting is particularly irksome and maybe there is just quite a few loud proponents of it around at the moment.
Just stop pointing that bloody avocado at me!!!!
I'm not sure that it's AP parents which are the smug ones, but I know the kind of thing you mean. It irritates me when people shove their choices in my face and post crap on Facebook suggesting that their choices are far superior to the alternatives. I don't think that being affected by these things suggests you are insecure with your choices, I think the person spouting off is probably insecure about theirs. I find this particularly true when the baby is quite 'difficult' or when said methods aren't really working but the parent has preached so much they can't back track and do something different. I defriended someone on Facebook once because they posted a really judgey status about how breast feeding was the best and only way, it insinuated that formula was like poison. It didn't upset me that she was so proud of breastfeeding her child for so long (4 years I think) but it annoyed me that she was so judgemental of other people's choices. I formula fed after 2 weeks because I was admitted to hospital (it snowed, roads blocked, DH had to feed our baby) so yes, it was a very raw subject, maybe I took it to heart. However, I didn't need to see a photo of her kid in a different colour/style of sling every 5 minutes either. It's irritating when people feel the need to boast about their choices constantly.
YANBU. I would say I am an attachment parent than any other type of parent but then I live in Sweden and the info sent home with you from the hospital says things like "the best place for a new baby to get used to the world is in the arms of his/her mother and father" and "sleeping with your baby in the bed is not only important for the baby but it is good for the mother as she doesn't have to get up to feed the baby, it will help the mother and baby bond and help get breastfeeding started" interestingly the Swedes don't have attachment parenting they just have parenting.
I am a member of a few attachment parenting groups on facebook, I mentioned that my 6 month old ds was enjoying the pram more than the sling when he was awake because he likes to chat to me and it is bloody hard to hold eye contact with a child in a sling, so many of the mums were rude about me useing a parent facing pram. I explained that I feel like eye contact and conversation is a very important way to bond with your child and they were almost programed to say sling good pram bad sling good pram bad. It is like they don't think about what the child needs they just have found some rules to follow with allow them to spend lots of money on slings so they can use a different colour every day of the week whilst laughing at stupid people spending money on prams with the sole purpose of emotionally damaging their children.
Honey tea - genuine question here - what do they do when their babies are too heavy for slings but can't yet walk long distances? I loved the sling up to 4/5 months and then found it so heavy as to hurt my back etc.
Ps I have two buggies and dd definite prefers to look out, not in! The APs would be horrified I'm sure but I think inquisitive toddlers want to see more than my boring mug all day
They don't really get that heavy in the right sling. I can carry my 28lb 18 month old for ages in my slings.
<disclaimer, I don't do AP, but I do use slings where it's convenient>
What sling hop along?
My 18 month old likes to be held a lot by me and I'm getting back problems 😳
I have a Tula Toddler (full buckle carrier) and I use a linen blend ring sling for quick things like if I need to pop into the supermarket (carrying him in my arms kills my back and he can't be trusted to not lick all the things). I also have used woven wraps to carry him and have a couple on order.
I also have two buggies that I use facing outwards. It's just whatever is most convenient. Taking to nursery - pushchair, walking to the shops - tesco, yomping up hills - carrier, teething and miserable and wont be put down - carrier, just feel like getting in cuddles where I can - carrier.
I'm not hardcore though. Some baby wearers are nuts and spend thousands on slings.
odd I have one of these (but I only carry him on my back as I can't see over his head when he's on my front).
Don't people just do what they have to for each baby? My first DC wouldn't be put down without screaming so I didn't put her down - carried her in sling, co slept etc etc.
Second dc perfectly happy to be put down, in fact preferred to be left along when tired (I never believed people who said this when I had DC1) so he sleeps well in his cot & goes in buggy. I was fully prepared to 'AP' him but it wasn't necessary.
I seem to find that they lose their smugness when number 3 comes along!
3 children like limpets...not possible.
I have ended up doing a lot of 'attachment parenting' not planned or read about, its just what worked for us, we took the path of least resistance and co-slept and used sling etc. But also use a pushchair.
I just do what works tbh and don't much care what others do.
Am jealous of your new sling hop I will post the other one to you but it has been crazy here and tomorrow we are having a party for ds2, will have 16 eleven year olds to organize and feed.... Weeps and reaches for gin...
Also hop what are the slings you have on order?
holidays I have five! It is possible but they also grow up and get less needy etc. The tern years are a whole new challenge tho...
I shudder more at Gina Ford to be honest.
I think she is brutal
and only to be used when all other fair and reasonable means have been exhausted.
Reading a book, treating a baby or child like a problem that needs to be solved and totally controlled and subordinated - makes me want to puke.
And I am not smug
tho my children are of course fabulous and gorgeous hop will testify to that! But I have just muddled along and found things that work for us, each baby has def taught me new tricks! They are all different and parenting techniques adjust to suit the child and family dynamics.
I have one of the new Firespiral wraps on preorder, and I have a Kokadi Sternen something or other coming a for sale board. Don't know if I'll keep both though.
Good luck with the party. Am crap aunt as per usual - still hunting for a present!
Oh, and yes, all of 5mads bunch are well adjusted and lovely!
You will have more slings than me I need you to teach me how to back carry dd!!
Tula toddler carrier looks fab. If only I had a spare hundred quid.... Are you honestly telling me your back doesn't hurt? I have a backpack for my 18 month old bit she's too heavy for me now <pathetic>
Children have been managing to build health attachments for years without the need to turn it into a 'parenting style'.
It is just an
over reaction to years of research that cites the damage that can be caused by poor attachment. We are a load of neurotics basically and are neurosis can make loads of writers and course leaders loads of money. It's a passing bandwagon.
Children are resilient and can actually cope if we get it a littl bit wrong sometimes. They need a handful of fundamental needs to be met. If people have got nothing better to do than turn being a parent into a neurosis masking project then leave them too it. Each to their own. Everyone is different.
'non-attachment parents? -WTF??? All parents are attachment parents unless they are in a state of ongoing crisis, neglectful willfully or otherwise state or TOTALLY absent. Event then other people like grandparents are able to meet a child's attachment needs.
rowtunda I'm bored of this guff too! Ignore them!
Yep, honestly! It spreads the weight across the waist belt and over your shoulders so it's really comfortable. If you have a local sling meet then I'd go and see if they do hires. You can get postal hires too ( I think Slumberoo do them?) but it's good to get someone to show you how to do it/offer advice.
As a few posters have mentioned already, it's the labelling that's annoying. Parenting is parenting, we all want the best for our children and we use the methods that suit us best, cherry picking good (or suited to the individual) methods as we go.
Several new parents these days are deciding 'how they're going to parent' before the baby's been born and that's what annoys the crap out of me.
The ante natal preachers that head tilt at me at work when they ask a question about something I did (eg did I use disposable/terry nappies) and then proceed to tell me why I was wrong to do whatever and the potential harm I have inflicted etc etc etc.
How old is your bub, OP? I was furiously anti-AP when my son was small and I went back to work too soon. We needed the money and motherhood scared me. Fast forward into the toddler years and I have the balance better.
Live and let live, I say. If people want to breastfeed until their kids are in school, carry their babies around and co-sleep, it's their look out. And if some of them go all evangelist on you, just smile and nod. That shows that they are insecure in their parenting. Safety in numbers, innit. If you are secure in your parenting, you don't mind so much how other people do it (bar violence and abuse).
The way to find security is not by reading shit but by doing it.
Thanks hop! Might give it a shot.
I am not a fan of parenting books generally but I found the baby whisperer book a sanity saver for getting dd2 to sleep and into a routine.
I find the thought of following any set of parenting rules to the detriment of my own preference and instinct really unsettling.
agree cat - heard people say they have follwed gina to the letter -
shudder and also baby whisperer.
give it a go first, if you have problems, then read the books.
i hate the idea of people reading the books then coming down like a ton of bricks on a poor defenceless little tiny buba.
then labelling it.
Hmm but my preference wold be to let the kids have as much screen time as they want- no nagging from them and I get to MN.Sadly that wouldn't be in their best interests though.
Same goes for a shed load of other parenting choices.
" poor defenceless little bubba" - vom and pmsl.
I didn't know some attachment parents see buggies as Satan's wheelbarrow! That's mental.
"Parenting choices" = preference.
They all call each other 'mama' too. It's odd.
You parent the child(ren) that you've got. You can't crowbar an unwilling baby into a Ginaesque routine, and you can't get a child like my DS to co-sleep. I did quite like the baby whisperer though, as I felt a bit adrift when I had DS and it gave me some ideas of how to build my days and also helped me learn about his different cries and cues.
Frida Satans wheelbarrow. That's hilarious...
Generally speaking, I have found mothers who practice attachment parenting to be sensitive, caring parents, busy getting on with their own experience of motherhood. So its hard to understand the anger directed at them by OP here; it seems a rather sour even sneery attitude to take.
I have noticed that AP can be targets for criticism by family or friends who find any kind of sensitivity towards babies objectionable, or who feel inadequate or defensive about their own choices.
It is all shit. I breastfed all 3 to varying ages, from 12 months to 24 months. Co-slept with a couple. Used slings, prams, rucksacks, and pushchairs as needed and as appropriate with each of the 3. Had one who slept on their front. One potty trained at 18 months, one at 3.
All of this depended on the individual child and how my life was at the time.
Went back to work at various stages between 29 weeks and 3 years.
All 3 are different now, at 6, 9 and 13. Any connection? Not a one
When I had Dd she wasn't a sleeper, took 'cluster feeding' to the next level (all day) and wouldn't be put down. I bf-ed constantly, borrowed a sling and co-slept. It was the only approach that worked! Then I discovered that you could call this AP, and was relieved to learn that 'winging it gently' had a name, books to read and research you could quote to shut the ILS up. (They all back off when I pretend to go 'academic' on them.)
Then we had Ds and pretty much proceeded as though dd's approach was normal. They're 10 and 6 now and lovely kids. I suppose this may make me slightly smug, but I think I've always had 'slight smugness' as a character trait. I don't think I'm judgemental with it. Certainly we met with judgement, but you always will, won't you, however you try and get through those early days?
Anyway, yabu to suggest I am judgemental and smug, but yanbu to get your worries off your chest.
I think a lot of the problem is in the terminology. It's divisive and critical. If you're not an "attached" parent presumably you're detached. If you don't parent your child "unconditionally" presumably your love is conditional. If you don't baby led wean presumably you're shoving it in their mouths against their will. The terms are smug and unhelpful, and seem almost designed to annoy.
Another one who thinks that there are smug, annoying parents and 'just get on with it' parents and actually that is all they have in common. There are plenty of attachment parents who are doing it because it's the way they arrived at through trial and error, and non attachment parents who are evangelical about their approach, so to assume that one style or the other attracts more arseholes than the other is a mistake.
You'll find smug people everywhere in life. Among those, some people are smug about parenting, but smugness isn't just confined to one particular way of doing things, it can come from many directions. Some people are just smug!
I agree with Elquota but would agree that it tends to be worse with people with new babies who have read the books and have all the answers without waiting to see what sort if baby they have. Attachment parenting is a bit hard for the sort of baby that wants to be put down and have its own space.
I can't say it bothers me because 20yrs or so on you realise that it really doesn't matter. There is no magic formula that says if you do a,b and c with your baby you will get it 'right'.
I have been flamed before for doing CC but the brilliant thing is, I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks. I do what I think is best for my DC and my family/
Try not caring what other people think. It's a lot better
I can see how the term "attachment parenting" can boil the piss, because it does imply that other ways of parenting are somehow "unattached" and therefore less loving. Which is balls. But in a literal sense it is appropriate as the baby is physically attached to you all day.
Smuggery in parenting small children is fucking annoying and divisive in any form. For example, I know that a lot of formula feeders sometimes feel guilty and judged for their choice (or non-choice if they couldn't breastfeed); however, I encountered a great deal of smugness from another new mother who formula fed in the early days when I was finding breastfeeding painful, demanding and difficult with my very colicky baby.
I just follow my instincts and do what is best for me and baby. I don't know what attachment parenting is. There are a lot of words and labels being made up for a certain way of bringing up babies which is all a bit of bs IMO. I'm still sleeping with DS next to me in his cot. He's been sleeping through for months now. I'm not following "attachment parenting" though. I'm following my instinct, same way I gave my babies the same food we ate. It wasn't fucking "baby led weaning", it was me following my instincts and knowing what was best for my baby.
There's no right or wrong way to do things. Parenting is all a bit of trial and error.
Don't start me on BLW- the mother chooses what to give the baby and when the baby will be fed! The baby has the choice of whether to eat it or not- the same as if offered a spoon of something. ( if you can get a spoonful of food down a baby who doesn't want it you cleverer person than me!)
And fwiw parenting books with all sorts of preachy methods were around in our parents' day, and in our grandparents' day.* It's only in retrospect that said parents and grandparents have developed the idea that they were so incredibly laidback and instinctive that they didn't need anyone to tell them what to do.
So will we by the time we come to be grandparents
In fact, now that my dc are teens I can already feel an idea that it was easier in my day stealing over me. But then I remember my mother saying exactly the same thing to me when my dc were little- and I also remember enough of my own childhood to realise my mother was not always as laidback and confident as she is when she remembers it.
*(read e.g. the bit in Anne of Green Gables where her daughter has read the bit about controlled crying, or the bit where Anne herself claims to have read a parenting manual that states that she mustn't kiss her son because she might give him Oedipus complex).
The mother is always made to feel guilty- once you realise that you will be made to feel this whatever you do- you can let go and do your own thing.
I wouldn't do it, but I get the urge to hold chocolate gateaux near enough for the baby to reach and then when it has a mouthful say innocently, 'but I thought it was baby led'.
I probably fall into what people term 'ap' though I really dislike labelling it, and from my perspective I am fed up of being judged for that. I am so fed up of being told I shouldn't co-sleep, that sitting with my son till he falls asleep will make him dependant and a 'wimp' apparently, that bf beyond 6mths 'is just wrong', that carrying new baby in a sling will make him clingy, etc etc. I have happy children and I am happy with our style of parenting, I couldn't care less what people think beyond that! This 'judgey' door swings both ways so agree with others let each parent do as they please and what works for them.
It's a shame you feel like that.
I think I might be "accused" of AP as I ebf and don't use cc and even use a sling. But it's just how I get through the day / night.
I personally have received direct and indirect criticism for not encouraging a earlier separation and independence in my DCs from women who have bottle fed their babies or put them to bed differently.
Different children also have different needs don't they?
My DS likes to be cuddled to sleep most nights. (PFB??) my DD seems more content to "self soothe".
My parenting "style" is a combination of my ideals and what I can manage.
I don't believe in cc. I do believe in ebf and i was lucky enough to be able to do it.
I don't feel smug about that.
But I'm not going to keep it a secret.
I'm another one winging it and hoping for the best. It seems to be working!
DH and i never really had anything to do with babies - i'd not even held one for years before DS was born! We ended up with a tiny prem and we've rubbed along just fine without having an official style of parenting.
We take advice
or ignore it depending on who's giving it pick up on new stuff he does at nursery etc. It works for us.
Tbh all the people i know who follow strict styles trip up as much as we do. DS willingly goes straight to his carer at nursery. He's never cried at being left and I've never had to stay to settle him whereas i know others had. Luck or parental guidance? Who knows. I don't mock others who have to leave screaming babies because mine goes mental for other reasons (no you can't have another bloody biscuit / play in the garden at 8pm/ get up at 4am...)
Most of it is down to luck i reckon! Parent how you want but i can't be doing with listening to the baby martyrs who are still wiping their kids arsed when they're 16!
I didn't know some attachment parents see buggies as Satan's wheelbarrow! That's mental.
Obviously they've met me - getting through doors with my usual appalling steering and my patented "launch arse at door first since it's so fucking big it's got to be of use for SOMETHING" method. The book for this method of appalling buggy-steering will be coming out next year.
I love the pushchair thing though - I slung DD1 a lot (I refuse to use the term babywearing - it's naff and it makes the baby sound like a pair of shoes) - but DD2 does not enjoy being in any of the multitude of carriers or slings that I own, and with two pre-walking kids, and hips and pelvis still wrecked from SPD - fuck it - I not only use a pushchair now, but I use the ultimate source of all evil - a Phil and Teds (if any of the sanctimommies want to stump up the cash to pay for a pushchair both can parent-face in - please feel free)... the shift in perception is quite comical really.
BLWing is another one - I took the lead from my baby - she was desperately ready for solids, we couldn't physically cram more milk into her bottles and I didn't want her weight gain spiralling out of control - but because she was a preemie she didn't have the motorskills to feed herself... so we did spoons, we did stuff she could pick up when the time came, we did whatever she could gum to death since she didn't have teeth till 13 months - isn't following what they're interested in and capable of TRUE baby-led weaning.
They all have such judgemental if you're not following it names:-
Attachment parenting... if you don't follow it you're a detached parent?
Gentle parenting... by extension if you haven't bought that book you must be an aggressive or harsh parent?
Baby-led weaning... so if you haven't followed this you must must must be some kind of dictatorial adult tyrant
Don't start me on BLW- the mother chooses what to give the baby and when the baby will be fed! The baby has the choice of whether to eat it or not- the same as if offered a spoon of something. ( if you can get a spoonful of food down a baby who doesn't want it you cleverer person than me!)
BLW gives me the rage weaning (are we allowed to call it weaning) is all the babies choice
arf Satans wheelbarrow
It's extremely rude and bad manners to give advice or criticise other people's parenting choices unless asked so just don't!!
Why the hell would anyone follow 'a method'.
I have 4 and each one was so different from day 1 that it would have been ridiculous to follow some sort of mantra.
Dc1 lived being held/rocked and dc2 hated it and fought to self settle. He HATED the sling.
Each baby is unique like each parent so treat them as such.
Yep thebody - DD1 would have been incredibly pissed off and viewed attachment parenting attempts (apart from slings cos she could get up close and nosier with the world) as attempts to cramp her style - she'd refuse from the outset to be cuddled or rocked to sleep (bang went my hope of sleepy cuddles) it was just like "get out of my face mum - zzz time here." DD2 - snuggle-seeking-missile. If they made cot mattresses shaped like and smelling like splatting yourself out full length and width across mummy - she'd be happy (just don't sling her or she goes nuts).
My kids apparently never read the manuals.
Exactly thebody that is why is mentioned what if the style doesn't work of course the majority of parents are sensible and will try other things but there must be parents who fret if something doesn't work out and they think they are doing wrong, labelling baby rearing is too much pressure imo,
The thing that irks me about the 'attachment' word in 'attachment' parenting is that if you actually read the research on attachment theory, rather than the various biased re-tellings of it in parenting 'guru' books, it states clearly that an infant's attachment style is strongly (though not invariably) predicted by the adult's state of mind with respect to attachment.
In other words, a child's attachment style is predicted NOT by what the parent does, but by the parent's own experiences and mindset. In other words, you can cosleep and babywear until the cows come home, but you have an anxious or avoidant attachment style, chances are your child will develop the same attachment style. Anyone martyring themselves in the name of attachment and believing it's for the good of their child and will help them be securely attached is wasting their time.
In many cases, the effort would be far better spent by the parent getting some decent long-term psychotherapy in order to work through their own attachment and infancy-related issues.
Disclaimer: I am NOT saying that people who AP (or anything else) should see a psychotherapist. If AP works for you, that's great. But the notion that it has much if any effect on a child's attachment style is at best unproven and
more likely at worst a load of guilt-inducing bollocks.
Yes agree above, the trouble is if you join groups with a mantra and it doesn't work for you and your baby then you are seen as 'failing' and for a first time mum this can be very upsetting.
I like the baby led/ parent halt method myself.
So you go with the flow and do what's nice for baby and then when you realise that actually a human person DOES need sleep you may need to step up and ( oh my god) cc
When your precious tiny baby gets to be a whacking toddler who puts your back out you may put it down to ( oh my god) walk/ buggy.
When your precious baby gets bigger and kicks you in the head while you attempt to co sleep then you may need to ( oh my god) get it a bed!!!
When your precious tiny baby gets really big and you feel the need to go out and get pissed/ life back in track it may be time for ( oh my god) packing your tits away and giving it a cup.
If you are confident in your own choices, why do you care about anyone elses?
If you feel sucure in your own parenting you mind a lot less, probably?
I was an attachment parent through no choice of my own. It was Ds2 idea, he was, almost literally, attached to me until he was 3.
I never talked to other people about this in a smug way, as I did not feel smug, felt a bit of a mug tbh!
But anyway, it did work out in the end
Would never advoctae it as the one and only way though! Though it is fascinating to see how this clingiest of kids that was just "indulged" in his need for semi permanent attachment is now very confident and independent. That bit was unexpected.
I like the body's approach. I haven't actually done the parent halt bit yet but I do intend to (eventually)!
I do agree that those of us who cosleep, don't like leaving our baby to cry and breastfeed do face judgement too. I have in particular and know some people think I'm a "mummy martyr". I didn't intend to be like this and always feel a niggling guilt that I should have my structure to my day, but ah well I'm loving parenthood so it's all good! People judge, that's the problem, and even when they don't, mothers can interpret things being done differently as an implicit judgement - whatever your parenting style. Just do what suits!
I think people who attachment parent, either deliberately or accidentally, are often treated as oddities in RL or at least a bit eccentric. But also attachment parenting appears more obvious. You can't really hide a sling or that you're breastfeeding when you spend any amount of time with someone.
Anything different peaks people's interests. I am often told "ooh I could never do that!" about things I do because they are easier and work for me and my baby. Funnily enough I never suggest anyone should do it
I find anyone who maintains their way is the correct way for everyone is
a bit thick very tiresome. Until every parent and every baby is exactly the same there will never be a right way.
Stop taking offence at other people's choices. It will make you happier.
Othehugemanatee - I think your research is severely flawed. I don't think people are getting that the 'ap' or progressive parenting philosophy is about a list of rules as to what to do and what not to do with your baby/child. It is saying put the child's needs first whatever they may be. So whilst for most babies ebf, co-sleeping, baby-wearing will be their preference, there are going to be a few babies who prefer a dummy to a boob etc. that's just fine and dandy and it is important to meets the child's unique needs. It just annoys me when parents cticise AP by saying 'I just parent them all differently blah blah' when parents are using cc and putting their baby in a cot or bottle-feeding is almost always for the parents benefit. That's why people don't like ap parents because it is a reminder that these parents are putting their children first and foremost and other parents don't like to see that. It's too confronting.
I'm an AP parent. I got thoroughly sick of comments involving "when are you stopping feeding" "cosleeping is bad" "that child should be in a pushchair" and other gems. It works both ways
I tell people when they ask for my opinion. Mainstream parenting is so reinforced that most people are relieved when they can finally admit that they sleep with eir baby etc. and not have the "rod for your own back" comments
Children don't always come first though. My son is partof a family. The majority of the time his needs come first, but not alwalways.
That right there is the issue I have with AP folk. That byaddressing own needs and understanding that just because you bebecbecame a parent, you didn't stop being a person, you are being selfish and not putting your own child first. Most of us weigh up the benefits of things to the baby vs the cost to our own mental health and wellbeing. I see posts all the time saying things like Oh my baby is two and still wakes up every hour and a half for a feed, I'm so exhausted I can barely function. And some ap type with inevitability reply with something along the lines of well they're only little for a short time and hugs mama, hang on in the for another year, bubba comes first. It gives me the rage.
Embrace, so ap parents are 'putting their children's needs first' and those who cc put baby in a cot and bottle feed is always for the parents benefit.
Judge and smug much!!!!
That's the attitude that makes people want to biff you in the head with a large and heavy parenting manual.
Co sleeping, breast feeding and not minding if you never sleep does not make you any better parent.
It's just your way to suit you. Yes YOU unless your baby had a conversation with you and expressed a preference.
Embrace - you obviously don't realise it but you are the epitome of a smug, judgemental attachment parent!!
I always put my babies needs first, thank you very much
New to a city I accidently got involved in an attachment parents group. Labelled AP I thought it was an Area playgroup.
It was fairly casual , kids played , babies cooed , mothers did lots of what I thought harmless hippy chat. Dr Sears mentioned a few times . Thought he was the local doctor.. I'd never heard of AP before.
A fews weeks in , the leader cornered me as a few mothers were concerned I wasn't fully on board because I left the twins in their maxi cosi feeding "themselves " with bottles formula .
I had 4 under 3 , no time for methods it was pure survival.
I feel like the things I do that ate typical of an ap parent like co-sleep, ebf, feed/cuddle to sleep are for my benefit rather than ds's.
I think he would be just as happy in his own room with formula I just don't want to be getting up and traipsing across the house making up bottles of formula when helliterally helps him self to milk in the night so I don't have to wake up.
I am a little in awe of those parents who have sorted out a routine and who have self settling babies and who manage to sterilize bottles and remember the bottle and formula every time they leave the house!
Exactly 4x4, if I hadn't tried CC when my twins were 6months I would have ended up even more sleep deprived and probably done something stupid or dangerous in my haze. 3 hours of broken sleep a night and no chance to catch up during the day (mine napped for 30 minutes during the day but at different times - the swines) was making me ill. If I had got ill what would have happened? I don't think sacrificing my health for my kids would have been best for them.
I'm an a accidental attachment parent (ie my babies like to sleep
on with me and I find a sling easier than a buggy for getting around with no car) so I may have the terminology wrong, but "bubba comes first" being the basis of attachment parenting is bollocks for many people. It is also bollocks that we're all putting the child first at the expense of others. I will concede Embracethemuffintop is doing her best to enforce the smug and judgemental stereotype!
I, and people I know, are just doing what works for us. I like my sleep - my first baby would not sleep in a cot but slept like a dream next to me. Dc2 has slept with me from birth and it has worked for us. We don't have a car so a sling is handy because some getting the pushchair on a bus or down a muddy track is difficult. I mixed fed my first, but breastfeeding has worked well for my second thankfully.
I am balancing all our needs and we're happy. I have friends who cannot sleep with their baby in the room. So long as you're all sleeping who cares?
So long as you're all fed and are supported in your choices, who cares? I might be a bit annoyed if you won't come to a special lunch because your routine says baby must eat and nap at separate times but it's not the end of the world. You might be more likely to come out for a drink from 8pm once baby's down!
Who cares whether you wear a sling or push a buggy? I care if you get my ankles with it or stand blocking the pavement or corner. I care if you won't fold it for a wheelchair on the bus. But I don't care otherwise!
So I care if you are rude or inconsiderate and if you drone on about your way being best, better or correct I will probably drop you... but I otherwise do not give a shit.
Militant types exist everywhere. Don't fall for the idea that what someone else has chosen reflects in any way on your own choices. See wohm/SAHM, breast vs bottle bunfights of yore. Same old, same old. Fear of the other and anxiety about having our choices undermined.
It can be good though to find a philosophy of parenting that you find encouraging ... so to realise that extended breast-feeding and co-sleeping and avoidment of punishment might all be related, and the sort of approach to raising their children that others are taking as well.
I think on the whole it's good to talk about parenting with others, and to be a bit reflective about what will be best for you and your DCs
We could argue about this until the cows come home but nobody would ever convince me, having tried it, that CC is for the benefit of the child.
I am not big AP supporter. I didn't co-sleep much (usually by accident rather than design), I never had a sling nor did I do BLW but CC made my child miserable as sin and me too. I think suggesting CC as being for anything other than the parent's benefit is an argument too far in the other direction. It is a method out of the Victorian 'spare the rod, spoil the child' school of parenting ime.
Anything else you can be guided by the child, some like cots, some don't, some like being held, some don't - they make their preferences felt and you go with it or don't. No child is ever going to chose CC. It is never about putting your baby first, ever and I can't bear the smugness of the people who have done it and got their baby to sleep through permanently, which is more luck than anything, and think that everybody else is deluded/selfish/just plain wrong for not doing it.
AP does make you quite selfish though.
It's completely impossible to spend any quality time with my AP friend these days. If I go over in the evenings she is up and down to her DC's bed as child won't go to sleep without her lying next to him, and also likes to be b/f to sleep.
In my last visit I got there at 8, left at 11 and I think saw my friend for about 20 minutes of the time.
She is a very longstanding friend or I would be entirely fed by now, because it is the same every time I see her (i.e. this wasn't a one off bad night). Her DS is 3.5 and she plans to continue this "as long as he wants".
How can you be a 'big ap supporter'!!!! What suits one baby doesn't suit others.. It means exactly that YOU are a big supporter and your baby has to fit into YOUR philosophy.
4x4 that's hilarious.
YouTheCat, agree cc saved my sanity and gave me a well rested happy baby.
BigBertha, guess you had great sleepers. Or perhaps yes all us dreadful cc mothers do it to torture our babies and for no other reason.
Do be sensible.
I was an accidental AP. (BF to 2 years, sling use for handiness and because I was freaky about having them out of sight, cloth bums because DS1 was allergic to nappies FFS)
I find people on all sides of the debate see your personal decisions as an attack on theirs. It's odd behaviour.
The very very extreme people (like the friend who claimed, loudly, that FF babies "stink," or the other friend who claimed that people who BF got some kind of weird perverted kick out of it) are irritating, but I think they're just justifying their choices that they somehow aren't secure about.
My children are happy and mostly healthy, whether that's because of or in spite of my parenting I don't know!
Oh, I've never tried CC, it wasn't for us. I don't sleep through the night, so I don't expect my kids to. It does seem alien to me, hence not trying it, but I do get that it works for some. CIO is different, I do believe that's a Bad Thing.
On the contrary, embrace, the research conducted by John Bowlby, Mary Ainsworth and later Mary Main on attachment patterns in infancy is anything but flawed - that's why it has become so influential that it has begun to seep into pop psychology. That research - particularly the later work of Mary Main and onward - shows amongst other things that the parent's own attachment style predicts the child's in 75% of cases. This has been replicated by many investigators around the world.
If you want references, try van Ijzendorn, M. H. (1995): Adult attachment representations, parental responsiveness, and infant attachment: A meta-analysis on the predictive validity of the Adult Attachment Interview in Psychological Bulletin, 117, 387-403.
In contrast, despite a lot of searching I have yet to find a decent longitudinal study that shows a positive correlation between an 'attachment' parenting philosophy and a secure attachment style, once you have controlled for the the parent's attachment style. (If you know of such a study please let me know - I'm very happy to update my understanding with new valid research). Hence my point, which is that simply applying a parenting philosophy is a waste of time, as if the aim is secure babies it will probably be more effective to address the parent's attachment experiences and patterns than to apply a parenting philosophy to the child.
I also think it's worth saying that the whole attachment thing gets blown somewhat out of proportion by anxious parents IMO. In my professional life I frequently see clients with very disturbed early attachment issues that are impacting severely on their adult ability to cope. And in no case has that ever been as a result of their parents having used a forward-facing pram, stopping breastfeeding at six months or even doing CC: it's been as a result of sexual abuse, violence, abandonment and other real attachment issues. Normal, concerned, loving parents will in most cases be absolutely fine regardless of whether or not they use AP or some other method. The whole 'parenting style' debate is fought over stuff which in 99% of cases is pretty trivial in the long term, when seen from a clinician's point of view.
Absolutely agree with your post.
I'm mildly "alternative" on balance. I just do what suits my family. I find baby wearing practical (means I've escaped the dreaded double buggy as I can swap my 2 yr old and new baby around). I like the prettiness and bin-space saving properties of reusable nappies. I like not having to faff with bottles and formula. I also like my own space in bed. DS 1 gets overwhelmed by fuss when he's tired, so letting him cry is most effective for him. I don't follow any particular philosophies, and I adapt to what the needs are of the situation (e.g. Co-sleeping if child is poorly and needs more comfort than normal)
I borrow a crappy parenting magazine frm the library (because it's a free, easy read) and like the Emma's Diary type parenting propaganda, they still seem to follow a tight path of sleep solutions, complicated stages of puree, best travel systems... and don't seem to cover the full range of parenting options. I think that's partly why the internet is such a haven for alternative type parenting, as that's where the information is. Also if you're prepared to do one thing differently, you're probably open to doing something else. I'm a member of a nappy group on FB, and it happens that the general balance is towards slings, BLW etc. Also seeing one person trying something, creates interest in it, so the interest grows. As long as there's respect for varying approaches, it's all fine and dandy.
Terminology doesn't help. (I particularly hate "Gentle Parenting". Mind you, if I was always "gentle" I'd never get any thing done around a full rage tantruming toddler). Being fundamental about anything be it religion, politics, parenting styles etc. is never pretty.
I bf for 21 months
I wore DS in a carrier for many hours a day until he was 15 months
I never let him cry longer than a minute
I don't let him watch TV
I sleep-trained at fifteen months (gradual retreat--amazing!)
I co-slept for two months, but couldn't stand the lack of sleep I was getting
I put him in his own room at six months
I did a mixture of spoon-feeding and baby-led weaning (went meal to meal, and at 22 months, he's a fantastic eater)
In short, at every step of the way, I did what worked best for our family, mostly putting my son first, but also taking into account my needs and my husband's. Surely everyone does this? I think it would be so exhausting to slavishly subscribe to one philosophy.
I know someone who practices AP. She isn't smug and she probably doesn't even realise that her style of parenting has a name. But my God does it look exhausting. Sometimes I wish I could say to her that putting herself first once in a while won't damage her child and that it is natural for a child to cry.
That's all very well, Bertha. I'm not saying CC is right for everyone but there is no way I could have done another 6 months on 3 hours of broken sleep. I had no support and so no break ever. I couldn't co-sleep with twins on account of their father being a heavy drinker and smoker.
So should I have put the babies in bed with me and their father? I think that would have been a massive mistake and would have put them at risk.
But in the end, my kids have survived my poor (according to some) parenting and are now adults. People should do what is right for them and their circumstances.
If I hadn't done cc like YouTheCat I would have ended up crashing my car or causing an accident.
I can't describe the utter joy of finally getting a full nights sleep. Best thing I ever did and that baby is now a strapping 23 year old graduate.
Suspect I shall be flamed for asking this but if there is a nappy group on Facebook - what the heck do you all discuss?! This intrigues me! I mean, how much chat about nappies can you actually have?!
I don't really get Facebook to begin with so I've probably not got much hope with a Facebook club that wants to talk about nappies....
"It is saying put the child's needs first whatever they may be."
So what if you have more than one child?
Surely there will be times when you cannot put both children's needs first, where something has to give?
And what if child's needs depend on parent staying in reasonable health?
My GP persuaded me to stop bf when ds was a few months old, so that I could take medicine that made my risk of dropping dead or or dropping him substantially lower. In the end I did see her point that ds' first need was ME.
Unless someone is harming/neglecting a child (and by that I don't mean daring to give a bottle of formula or leaving a baby to cry for a couple of minutes!) then does anyone really care how others parent? Everyone does what works for their family at that time. If something different works for a different family then great good luck to them!
I think if anything the general trend is put everyone first ahead of the mother. I'm not saying that from any particular parenting approach but more from what I see in the media/press as everything being child centred. Any needs or requirements of the mother seem to be seen as irrelevant or showing selfishness.
So we have mums developing PND through guilt at not being able to breast feed, expected never to let a child cry (impossible with multiple children) etc etc
I'm not sure this is going to do our kids much good either tbh.
I wonder if the "benign neglect" of yore might be better all round.
I wrestle with this most days when parenting.
The thing is are are a few quite bonkers people on here and in RL that would have told Cory that she must forego her own medical needs and bf at all costs because not to do so is harmful to baby
It is refreshing that the general consensus on this thread is do what is right for your family though - whether it has a label or not.
There are bonkers people who identify with all schools of parenting.
Can we just stop with the "I have a friend who <insert bonkers thing> who was an attachment parent so that mean attachment parents are X, Y, Z"? It just makes you sound small minded and I'm sure you're not really. Just very self-assured in your choices!
Actually don't stop. We'd have to switch off Mumsnet if it was all reasoned, evidenced based debate
That post was only to those making sweeping generalisations based on anecdotal evidence. Just so I'm clear
I think I'm probably like most parents. If my parenting style were analysed, it would be a little from this style, a little from that, etc.
I chose individual options that suited the DCs and me. I don't want a label, other than "parent", that's all.
First rule of nappy group: we don't talk about nappy group. There's loads of them. Some are more focused on others, but on nappy talk, different brands, fit, strip washing, special offers, pretty ones... Other parenting stuff comes up in the one I'm in.
I think the NSPCC advert has a lot to answer for- the one where a folorn little Johnny peers over the cot having given up crying because no body ever comes. I'm sure that's guilt tripped a lot of parents over reasonable and normal amounts of crying. You know your own baby's cries. Sometimes they need attention more urgently than other times. Some people mistake any crying for neglect. It obviously isn't or all younger siblings woud be psycologically disturbed from a parent dealing with an older sibling first. Everyone's comfort zone is different, but there is a small minority that thinks any crying is neglect, and that undermines a lot of healthy parenting.
Where do the needs of the parent and wider society fit in?
Genuine question, if the child is taught that their needs are the most important thing in the whole world, how do they manage in situations where everyone's needs have to be compromised for reasons of practicality? Eg in schools, healthcare, public transport, many areas of life. Doesn't it come as a huge and damaging shock?
I only know one AP child, and it would appear that the above is the case for them... But perhaps the parents didn't do it right?
I have a friend who eats her own baby's poop so all attachment parents are bonkers
have a friend who eats her own baby's poop so all attachment parents are bonker
WHAT YOU CANT LEAVE IT AT THAT
Hulky WTAF?! That's fucking mental!
no no, you nanas, that was for K8 ^^
People will believe anything about those crazeeee AP parents.
ohh just beautiful there hully...
I should have kept it going
DAMN THAT MISSED OPPORTUNITY
ocht I would have loved a poop munching story while I ate my hand sandwhich
You're eating your hand!
Is that an AP thing too?
hands and poop dear dear dear
Oh god sake Ham I am not eating my hand that would just be weird <<<mmm fingers>>
And this is why I didn't AP. I didn't like the poop eating and self-cannibalisation.
Yeh, the placenta was OK - quite tasty, but the poop was just nasty
I can't help but find attachment parents smug.
I find the terminology so irritating. "Attachment" this, "natural" that, "gentle" the other.
It's so unyielding isn't it? As if parenting is that simple.
Yeah yeah, each to their own, and live and let live, but the smell of burning martyr that permeates when an AP I know complains about being so tired because their child breastfed all night long. Their three and a half year old child. If your child doesn't eat all day and breast feeds all night to make up for it, then y'know, make some changes?
Hully, you have now brought back the memory of the time dd at the dinner table shoved her hand into her pants and then into her mouth and then pronounced solemnly that "it doesn't taste very nice".
I just had lunch with dd. We talked about the theatre and her prom and her plans for the future. It was lovely- but I want those silly and disgusting and funny times back!
wish dd would talk to me, she just looks at me like what rock have you crawled out from and why must you speak?
Mine too Hully.
Just asked her if she was traumatised by cc and also the time mummy got quite drunk at school sports day and she just stared at me. Quite disconcerting.
I knew I should have got that bloody sling.
Mine says, What do you mean? Why would you even say that?
About EVERYTHING I say. <cries>
Mind you I did have a sling and it was a bit rubbish and once I leaned over when I was getting out of a taxi and dd slid out and banged her head.
So that might explain a lot.
Part of the fun is traumatising and embarrassing our children. Otherwise what was the point?
Lol dd said to me yesterday, 'are you going OUT in that?'
I thought I looked dam good but changed obviously.
Also ' your doing my head in'
And always 'OH MY GOD MOM' at the least tiny request to perhaps not using every bloody towel in the bathroom to assist in fake tanning.
I used to get a lot of eye-rolling and fgs
Now she's 18, she's almost human.
You, just biding time Cat. Have grown up lads who were right daft as teens but my dds!!! Something else.😄
Hah! Hully I thought there might be a ruck then. Sadly not. Sigh.
Now, can I just say the sling I have is rather marvellous? I can go to the bar, get a bottle of red, stick it in the sling and carry dd, wine and 6 glasses back to the table. Bet all you attachment-deniers wish you had one now don't you?!
Btw, I heard that parents who do CC eat the baby on the fourth night if it doesn't work. Honest.
I have just remembered giving DS1 a black eye on the car door when he was in a back carry in the sling.
Slings should clearly be BANNED.
There was a time when I was That AP Parent, on holiday in Edinburgh when DS1 was about 5. He was in the sling in a back carry, fast asleep (ASD, crowded shopping area, meltdown followed by passing out, baby asleep in pram, seemed like a sensible idea but rather a lot of people went [judge]) His feet were by my knees.
What I don't get is, are there actually people out there who picked out a "parenting style" before the DC arrived and then stuck with it after the DC arrived?
Because I had all these wonderful fixed idea before DS arrived
Would put him in his own room straight away - no co-slept till 9 months
Wouldn't do CC - saved my sanity at 10 months
Wouldn't let him watch TV - Pingu is the only reason any laundry gets done in this house
Would never feed him crap from a pouch - Hello, Ellla's kitchen
Because once he arrived he made it abundantly clear he was an individual and wasn't going to conform to any books I had read.
So I took the "muddling through with whatever works and lots of wine" style
And if I have another DC I won't assume that what worked for DS will work for them.
So I am always surprised people seem to be able to make decisions on how they will parent and then manage to apply them to a real life child. It was beyond me.
I can say that it was my biggest shock as a parent. I truly believed they were a blank sheet - I had not realised they had a mind of their own. I was very proud of DS at 24hrs old- the midwife said that 'all babies liked being swaddled'- he wasn't having it! He struggled and struggled and he got his arms out!
There is no harm in reading books as long as you wait and see if it is going to work with your DC.
It shocked me
He had a mind of his own from minute one and didn't want to fit into any of my naive ideas about how children should be raised
Mind you - I probably set the tone when I told the midwife I didn't give a stuff if it said I wanted to breathe my baby out on my birth plan whilst listening to whale song and having a relaxing shoulder massage with organic lentil oil, I wanted an fucking epidural NOW.
I agree Cat - I can't imagine any parent not changing views in some way after having had children, moreso after they have had more than one I would think!
books, parenting styles and other things may provide you with ideals but life doesn't work to ideals!
That is why I never had a birth plan- you haven't had a baby before so you can't possibly know what you want! You think you know what you might want, but you have to be ready to adapt. Same once the baby arrives.
YABU, in that to some extent I think APs have more of a right to be smug as it takes a lot more hardwork, effort to practice what you preach. Take for example CCing, it is done to end the sleep deprivation that the parents are experiencing, co sleeping, especially when they're older, is not exactly a great nights sleep but often parents do it for the sake of the children. Wearing a sling is for the child's benefit as opposed to a baby that has learnt to accept the bouncy chair, enabling their parents to get on with things without having a baby attached to them.
I don't think the opposite of AP style if you want to call it that is on a par with AP efforts and in that sense they are not equal choices IMO.
I am not saying this as someone who has practiced all these wholesome approaches. For instance, the one I find tricky is constantly providing wholesome snacks and limiting 'treats'.
Golden that is bollocks.
Anyone who wants to label themselves and be smug is a twat. Parenting is hard work whatever way you do it.
Exactly YouTheCat- if you want to do it and it suits you, and more importantly your child, then just get on with it.
The irritation comes from the idea that it is superior or harder work- parents don't get medals for effort!
I did CC for the sake of DS as well as myself and DH as he wasn't getting enough sleep. Sleep being hugely important for his development
You could equally (badly) argue (and I wouldn't as I don't judge how other people parent) that parents who don't CC a because they find the thought / practice too difficult (and it is) and would rather let their DC go without proper sleep than put themselves through a difficult few nights.
But you'd be a twunt to make such an argument, whichever "style" of parenting you subscribe to, wouldn't you?
Well done goldenbear, your post managed to sum up why people have issues with the nature of some AP parents because they think they are superior to others.
I do agree with cat that a good nights sleep is vital for children. For DS co-sleeping would guarantee an even worse than normal sleep
Ffs if doing stuff that people label as AP was harder I certainly wouldn't be doing it! I do things the way I do because it is easier. If I had a baby who didn't like it or it was disrupting my family I would do something else.
But I've never read a parenting book except the Rapley BLW one (I read the introduction and the page about foods not to be given to babies then wondered how she'd spin it out to a whole book!) so being a martyr about this stuff has passed me by because I haven't read that bit I only found out I do AP-typical stuff from reading it on here!
Anyone who deliberately makes parenting harder for themselves without considerable and actual benefits for either parent or child is bonkers. Why would you make it harder? It's hard enough already!
Are you joking, goldenbear? I fell into AP parenting out of sheer laziness. Keeping the baby in bed? Easier than trying to get him to fall asleep on his own. Extended breastfeeding? An easy way to calm down a frustrated toddler.
If I had a better, less self-centred parenting approach then my DC would definitely be out of my bed and weaned off my breast by now.
Parenting is all about what works for your DC and you. (shrug)
Oops, x-posted with k8middleton!
That is why you should take out of books the bits that suit you. If you find it harder then they obviously don't suit you, or come naturally.
Have I pad. Can mumsnet while holding toddler's hand as they fall asleep... Fab.
Haven't read whole thread, but generally against judgyness either way on this type of thing, reckon you need to come up with best approach to whole family.
I personally didn't subscribe to any particular style of 'parenting', especially prior to having my 1st child but once my DS arrived I knew that I didn't think it was right to do CC or CIO as to me it didn't seem to prioritise the baby's needs. My DS went to bed in his own bed but woke up in ours until he was about 4. My DD co slept as she would breast feed from 3 -7 in the morning until I stopped breast feeding at 22 months. I can't say that I did it to make my life easier as the co sleeping gets quite uncomfortable as they get bigger and the placating of a toddler with a breast doesn't give the effort enough credit. I know as DS stopped breast feeding at 4.5 months and in no way did it require as much energy to stick a bottle in the baby's mouth, for a start other people could do it!
IMO it is a lot harder carrying a baby around the house in a sling and doing chores than just having them contently watch you in a chair. I had a couple of slings but was always much keener for DD to be in the swinging chair as despite believing in the principles of the closeness of AP it was too much like hard work to actually do it all of the time. Plus, I found it draining in that DD just wanted to feed all of the time.
However, I was wrong in my last post to say it is ever right to be 'smug' as it is not. My point was just that I think a lot of it is harder to carry out than say doing textbook Supernanny methods.
I know what you are saying OP.
When I had dc, I didn't even have tinternet, and I was a bit in denial so hadn't done much reading. I had no friends with kids yet, and so had to struggle with, on the one hand Mum and Aunts and their very 1950's ideas of the Right Way to Do Things,and on the other a non sleeping baby who would only sleep on me for the first couple of months.
(I kept the sleeping on me thing secret from the HV as I was failing to put him on his back!)
Anyway, muddled along (baby bjorn and outward facing pram, mix feeding, cot for half the night, my bed after the night feed because he wouldn't settle) until I started going to a toddler group, and met some women who astounded me with their martyrdom and smuggery, because I genuinely didn't know that "parenting" could be a verb..
Playpens were bad, buggies were bad, SPOONS were bad FGS!
One of them became a friend of mine, but God was she invested in the whole "family bed", BLW stuff. The problem was, she was sooo grumpy all the time, as she never got any sleep (or sex!) and actually never seemed to have much fun with her kids, probably as she was so exhausted.
I certainly would never claim to have all the answers, and would love to do it all again, now I know what I am doing (I was soo clueless) but there IS a certain breed of Attachment parent that makes me roll my eyes because trying to stick religiously to ONE style of doing things no matter what kind of is like saying that anything else is just wrong, and damaging to the child, which is bollocks.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
It's because they are sad & have little else going on in their life.
Another one who does all the AP stuff because I'm a bit lazy and it's the path of least resistance. I have never once even sat up let alone got out of bed for a night feed, I went all over London with dc 1 in his sling, could go anywhere, up & down steps, on crowded buses... While my friends were batch cooking and puréeing I was just chucking bits of my own dinner at him. Extended bf= instant and reliable remedy for tantrums, pains, over stimulation... I'd have to develop a lot more parenting skills without this weapon. I am sometimes judgy about sleep training (although never about weaning styles or transport choices fgs) but more often astonished by the lengths other mums go to to get their dcs to do things at times and in the way that they think is right. Someone was telling me she'd returned her dd to bed over 100 times in one evening to teach him to stay there... Another friend developed an rsi from shh patting. Non AP mums work hard!! But tbh I think most AP types have had a fair amount of criticism aimed at them esp from older relatives and I'm not surprised if they sometimes let rip about how they are
right pleased the AP approach works for them
I like to mix it up a bit. Done combined feeding with both my babies. Done "baby led weaning" (hate that term) and spoon feeding with both. Co-slept with both and breastfed through the night because I'm lazy and didn't want my sleep disturbed. I used to breast feed whilst sleeping.
Tbh, I'd never heard this attachment parenting phrase until I joined MN.
I have also mixed it up, I read Baby Whisperer with first but could never follow another doctrine to the letter, as others say take what works for you.
I too only heard this AP term on MN but I have definalty floated through ease, towards it this time round. I have found being the mother to a small child far easier too going with the flow more.
choclate your comment made me laugh about the 100 times.
I think smug, know-it-all, preachiness is a personality trait rather than a parenting style.
in the group of friends I've made from baby group, I'm the one who co-sleeps full time and has since the beginning. Another woman co-sleeps a couple times a week, a couple women have had their babies in cots in a separate room since birth. Same with breastfeeding, I'm still doing it, a couple women stopped a few weeks ago, another couple stopped nearly a year ago when the babies were weeks old. We all have different styles of 'parenting' but no-one, even for a second, has judged or preached or commented that their way is right.
Compare that to my baby's father's family - I'm not even sure what their parenting style was/is, I just know they like to tell me I'm doing it all wrong (with lots of 'making a rod for your own back!' thrown in). Its because they're douchenozzles, not because we parent differently.
Erm this is a thread from July
On the contrary - my experience is that the " yes I put my baby in his own room at 2 weeks old.."are the most smug.
AP parents often find themselves in the minority and can be easily open to attack ... I find AP parents are generally a lot more private about their parenting style.
Mumsnet also seems to also be full of people who recommend these parenting styles i.e. sitting in a drak room for hours holding yourtoddlers hand in a darkened room until they fall sleep, condemning people who use sleep training methods, want an evening sans child etc etc.
Bollox to both of these - sitting in a darkened room is sleep training and in a purist sense non AP - and AP is about forming secure bonds with your child and living a child centred life not about being glued to your child 24/7.
If you are going to attack a group of paremts then at least know what you are talking about.
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