To think that the older retired generation have it too cushy ...

(288 Posts)
suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 21:52:57

Nice holidays, large houses now worth £££, good pensions etc. (I know I am generalising her)e.

And the young/middle aged people can't rely on an inheritance as the elderly people may have to sell their homes to pay for care. Yet the elderly people did get an inheritance and are enjoying it on their holiday spending sprees.

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 21:54:32

YANBU the generation that is aged 25-35 is screwed really

funkybuddah Sun 30-Jun-13 21:57:15

Nobody should ever rely on inheritance. I'm getting none and my kids are most definitely not.

I'm gonna spend every pound. And I encourage my parents/grand parents to do the same.

PearlyWhites Sun 30-Jun-13 21:59:01

What a strange attitude funky do you actual have any children yet?

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:00:28

I don't feel that way. I want to be in a position to leave an inheritance for my DC- I want their lives to be easier.

juule Sun 30-Jun-13 22:01:10

Yes, you are generalising and so YABU.
Not everyone who is retired has it cushy and not everyone who is younger has it difficult.

MollyBerry Sun 30-Jun-13 22:01:36

I'm not personally really bothered but YANBU.

The book by David Willets says it all The Pinch: How the Baby Boomers Took Their Children's Future

AndHarry Sun 30-Jun-13 22:02:24

I'm not relying on anyone's inheritance but I do feel a pang of envy when friends my parents' age and older talk about the 3-bed semis they bought for £14k thirty years ago that are now worth £200k+. £14000 wouldn't even have covered our deposit when we bought a modest home 3 years ago. The lifestyles that generation enjoy are unobtainable for anyone my age (doomed age bracket as above!) unless they're absolutely loaded.

YANBU

My mum keeps going on about when we move to a bigger house. We have a 3 bed semi and I don't think we'll ever afford anything bigger. She doesn't seem to get that it's not like it was when she was buying property that would double in value in a few years.

Shakirasma Sun 30-Jun-13 22:04:17

YABU

This is a generation who grew up in wartime/post wartime Britain. The younger generation's entire lives have been cushy compared to the childhoods the older generation endured.

If they have done well for themselves, or just caught a break, well good luck to them and I hope they enjoy it.

WineNot Sun 30-Jun-13 22:05:06

I always find it interesting on here that 'benefit bashing'/generalisations arent allowed but 'OAP bashing'/generalisations about wealth are

I know very few OAPs who are even comfortable, let alone wealthy.

AndHarry Sun 30-Jun-13 22:05:39

Saying that, more than a few OAPs live in desperate poverty. As always, those who rode the gravy train have had an easy ride and those who missed it have never been able to catch up.

YABU. Every winter elderly people die due not to being able to afford heating. The care they pay for may well be the reason they enter an early grave - some care homes are horrific! Not every older person has it so cushy.

funkybuddah Sun 30-Jun-13 22:06:14

Yes I have 2, I've never grown up with the notion of inheritance my parents don't own their homes, I'm unlikely to ever own mine. Why would i squirrel away money that I've earned for them to have when I'm dead? Maybe those from backgrounds where there is disposable income expect more.
My mother lived from day to day for the best part and I have plans for when my kids have flown the nest and they cost a fair whack.

But as that clearly makes me odd I'd best change my life plans and be bored and unfulfilled, on my deathbed wishing I'd done something interesting.

PseudoBadger Sun 30-Jun-13 22:06:15

Ha ha my parents would have it cushy - except that we are so poor we have to live with them forever temporarily grin

ImNotBloody14 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:07:10

Hmm, i think you sound quite entitled op. some might have it cushy, whether that be through inheritance or success during working life, but equally there are alot of 'retired' people who have had to stay working to keep oil in the tank and food inthe fridge and some who cant even work to do it and freeze during the winter. There are also a good number of working age people who are sitting very comfortably aswell, for various reasons.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:08:02

And it's crazy that the wealthy ones still get the winter fuel allowance ...

Yabu and generalising massively.

Once again, it is something being peddled around about. Somehow, the elderly I know are not the well off, entitled people of which you speak. They may be asset rich, but are cash poor.

NowThatsWhatICallANickname Sun 30-Jun-13 22:09:48

I agree. My fil and step mil are in their late 70s, both retired at 60, own a nice property that is now worth a few bob and go off on holidays and caravan trips for months at a time.

I don't think I will ever enjoy that kind of life because by the time I retire the age will be about 80 I think!

usualsuspect Sun 30-Jun-13 22:10:05

Yabu , I know plenty of skint pensioners.

But then I do seem to live in a parallel universe to some mnetters

stickortwist Sun 30-Jun-13 22:10:23

Yanbu.
Not a lot we can do about it though. Aged 33 we can (just) about afford a house. However i'm still paying off student debt and will be for many years. A sizable sum goes into my pension too.... However the yr which i will be able to get it gets pushed further and further away.
Im pretty sure there wont be free bus passes or winter fuel payments.... More likely we will be paying to "top up" our nhs care if the nhs still exists

Snugglepiggy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:10:48

Feeling a bit grumpy today so would tend to agree,and I worry greatly for our DCs ( mid 20s) generation.
At a party last night and DH and I chatted to 2 couples in late 60s who I have no doubt worked hard and saved etc but all had had careers in public sector and seemed thrilled to bits with their retirements ,holidays and lifestyle and maybe it does sound a touch green eyed but as self employed and having ridden through yet another recession feel they have had the best of deals that younger generations could only dream of.

Heartbrokenmum73 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:10:48

Yeah, my Mum and Dad, who will have my youngest brother living with them until they die (because he's SN and will never cope with living alone), and are struggling to get by each week, and could never afford their own property, yeah, they're really leading a cushy life.

Over generalisation and talking out of your behind OP.

Once agIn, this op sounds like just another version of the feckless benefit scroungers with their big SUVs and flat screen televisions ...

Triumphoveradversity Sun 30-Jun-13 22:11:57

I am not a babyboomer but I do not resent them.
Too much of a generalisation
YABU

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:11:58

Of course, people have different circumstances but I'm talking about the general shift in society. It's getting harder for young people to get onto the property ladder, they have to pay university tuition fees, the working environment is far more competitive and stressful etc. Whilst older people have benefited from rising house prices, most mothers were able to stay at home (not having to juggle all the plates like working mothers now), blah de blah.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:24

"talking out of your behind OP" That's a tad rude don't you think?

FunnysInLaJardin Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:49

yabu and mean sprinted. You will be fine, just let the 60 somethings enjoy their day in the sun. My parents are in their 80's and had this in their 60's so tbh I think it is another green eyed red herring. Oh everyone else is better off than us. Do you work for the DM btw?

ImNotBloody14 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:15:03

Look the grass is always greener attitude will always make you miserable. There are so many different variables that mean some people are cushy and some arent. The only thing you can do is concern yourself with your OWN situation and stop being resentful of other peoples wealth or perceived wealth. It wont change your situation no matter how jealous you get.

usualsuspect Sun 30-Jun-13 22:16:13

My mum worked always to put food on the table,then my dad died just before retirement age.

Yeah, she's had it so cushy.

apostropheuse Sun 30-Jun-13 22:16:48

They've earned their money, paid their taxes, paid into pension schemes and are now reaping the benefits. Good luck to them.

Jealousy is a terrible thing.

Ever heard of kippers?

Why is it essential to own a house? The fees are only payable at a nominal rate of interest until the graduate earns over a certain threshold ...

i just think that sometimes there just seems to be a parallel universe - this is not a unique UK centric issue it is the same the world over and I like to know that some of the tax money goes towards helping a few pensioners make ends meet

LineRunner Sun 30-Jun-13 22:17:28

I agree that there is a huge economic shift happening before our eyes, yes.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:17:37

Lots of them lived through world war 2.
I dont envy them one bit.

Sunnysummer Sun 30-Jun-13 22:19:16

Current OAPs often don't have it easy, but the boomer generation is a bit of a different story. Free education for many, plentiful jobs for most, huge rises in house value for those who have them (yy this is by no means ALL - but it's a large proportion - and over time house price increases are a very effective way of transferring wealth from the young and the poor, who have to rent, to the old and wealthy, who are owners and landlords), and having had to pay taxes and NI at a time when there were multiple working people per pensioner, rather than the 1-1 relationship that our generation will be approaching. Of this very privileged group, many are still approaching retirement with minimal savings and will have to be funded by generations to come. Add to that a rapidly worsening environment, and no amount of improved modern technology and cheap air travel can offset the unfairness.

People will always point out individuals and subgroups who have had it very tough, and this is absolutely true, but on a group level, today's average 20 year old has a tricky path ahead.

Triumphoveradversity Sun 30-Jun-13 22:20:13

Only about 5% of those boomers will have attended University. My Mother who is a babyboomer always worked full time and she had six dc. Family allowance payable for first dc only and no tax credits at all.

If you want to generalise about anyone screwing up the economy and letting markets run riot then blame successive governments of all political colours.

mellicauli Sun 30-Jun-13 22:20:50

YABU - they worked s hard to bring us so many advantages, they had so little and we have so much. How can you grudge them a week or two in sun?

RedlipsAndSlippers Sun 30-Jun-13 22:20:52

Due to work I know a lot of elderly people, and I would say maybe 1 in every 50 or so get to holiday every year etc. A lot of them are really struggling due to rising bills, care costs, children that for whatever reason never move out, or do move out but still rely on their parents for regular help financially. It's not as cushy for them as you may think.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:21:16

No one has right to an inheritance.no one in many family has ever had or left inheritance
You seem to be describing a specific prosperous set of people
Is this about you?did you expect an inheritance thats not now forthcoming

PepperPotts Sun 30-Jun-13 22:21:28

My parents and in laws are what you describe.

I think you are being very unreasonable. They had it so tough as children in the 40s/50s that I begrudge them nothing now.

Rather my 80s childhood with indoor toilets and heating and no ration books than how they lived, any day

wannabeawallaby Sun 30-Jun-13 22:22:33

YANBU OP.No generation - on the whole - in our lifetime will have it as good as them.

I feel very sorry for the youf - they will struggle to pay their £45k of uni loans and live a life while paying the pensions of people in their 90s who sucked every penny they could from property, while they can only dream of owning a home and never have hope of a state pension.

usualsuspect Sun 30-Jun-13 22:27:53

Plenty of todays pensioners brought their families up in rented slums.

No bathrooms or heating.outside toilets.

SkivingAgain Sun 30-Jun-13 22:28:38

My parents are in their 70s, didn't go to university, bought their first house when in their mid 30s. Interest rates were much higher, so this was a real struggle with two kids, both had to work full time -sounds very much like the experience of many today. Neither has inherited either. They are now quite comfortable because they always saved a small amount and avoided debt. No forrin hols till kids grown up etc.
They have assets to leave, so will actually give more than they have taken in life -and I think they are fairly typical - but not because they have been lucky, or greedy!

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:30:10

"Is this about you"? Not directly. My elderly in laws spend the inheritance they received yet one of their children is struggling (not my DH). Their grandchildren haven't been on holiday in years yet they holiday several times a year. I think it's wrong/selfish but then my parents would never do that so I struggle to understand it.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:31:26

Also, they are not dead yet.
If this country's finances go really belly up, I would rather be younger than old a that time.

Also, I try not to compare my life to anyone else's really. Not a lot of good to do that, is it?

NowThatsWhatICallANickname Sun 30-Jun-13 22:32:01

I do agree that they had it good with jobs and property but they do have a different attitude to younger generations - they aren't wasteful.

One thing I have always come across in older people is how they do not let things go to waste, especially with food. They use up leftovers, they cook proper meals, they aren't greedy like younger people and they tend make and mend do.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:33:39

People can and do spend their own money how they wish.
Best to never think or rely on getting a handout or help. If you do, you do, but there is never a guarantee.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:34:56

So this is your sense of entitlement,you expect pil to leave inheritance?
Frankly no one has right to an inheritance
If your pil spend their own money,go on holidays it's up to them.they do not need justify or explain

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:35:02

Good point Now. Also, they are not after the latest must have must not have

havingamadmoment Sun 30-Jun-13 22:35:15

A part of me agrees. For example, my grandparents who were all working class families were able to live with one worker and buy 3/4 bedroom houses when they got married (young). My grandmother is constantly having a real go at me because my kids have no stability as we keep moving rented houses. She cant understand why we dont just buy grin.

However, I wouldnt swap my life now for hers in a million years - would you?

cory Sun 30-Jun-13 22:35:33

It wasn't exactly easy to get onto the property ladder in the 50's or 60's either. Dh's parents lived with his parents (with his mum looking after her elderly MIL) until they managed to rent a tiny flat with mouldy walls which left dh's asthma flaring, sending him into hospital.

The difference was that young couples didn't necessarily expect to be able to marry as soon as they wanted to, and that a young married couple certainly didn't expect to be able to buy their own house straightaway.

Greydog Sun 30-Jun-13 22:35:52

YABU - and nasty. I took early retirement last year. For all the forty years I worked I paid a huge chunk of my wages into a pension plan. I have only ever been abroad twice - and then on a short break to France! i live in a terrace house. I am not on the bread line, but i don't live the life of Riley. I resent the remarks made by another poster about sucking out the values of the property market. If anyone is to blame for the predicament we are in now as a society its succesive governments who have done nothing except make life easy for their cronies. I am sorry to rant, but such an ignorant, stupid remark makes me cross (bet you couldn't guess that!)

havingamadmoment Sun 30-Jun-13 22:36:02

Oh I have no inheritance as my dad seems intent on giving it away to as many wives as possible before he dies grin.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:36:13

Sorry, where did I say this is my sense of entitlement? I think they should help out their struggling offspring, not me.

rockybalboa Sun 30-Jun-13 22:36:21

My parents live in a huge house, have been away for the weekend with their friends in their fancy sports cars and have also been to look at a £250k holiday home. Both pretty much retired and live the life they want to live. I don't begrudge them anything about that at all, they've worked hard for many years, raised their kids, built up to what they've got and probably didn't have as much as I do now when they were my age. Yes, their existence might be 'cushy' compared to my own right now but they're a generation ahead and they've bloody earned it. I couldn't care less if they spend 'my' inheritance, it's their money!

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:39:56

Yes,that's the sense of entitlement.you think pil compelled to financially help
If your pil want to holiday,and spend cash in preference to saving up for family thats up to them
Your pil don't need to help out,nor do they need to moderate their spending

specialsubject Sun 30-Jun-13 22:40:43

My parents have all the things that you mention. They WORKED bloody hard for them.

YABU.

frogwatcher42 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:40:54

YABU imo. I accept that the following is a massive generalisation but I spend a lot of time with many 60+ year olds and this is what I think:

If you actually talk to a lot of the retired people they had it sooooo hard in their younger years. There was very little help or benefit and they had to work hard or go hungry. We have it so much easier now.

No, we cant afford a house as easily as they could if they were in ok jobs, but some of that is because our expectations are so much higher for day to day living imo and our money goes on things they would never have spent it on. They didnt expect new items of furniture, takeaways or holidays. Food took a massive proportion of their income and life was basic and simple.

Life was tough for them - I know many 70 year olds who wore cardboard in their shoes as the soles wore out. And got hand me down trousers which gradually turned to shorts to be worn day in and day out even in winter until the next hand me downs came. Many didn't have transport (couldnt even afford a bike) and would walk miles to school or shops.

When I see children suffering what they suffered then I will agree with you.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:41:24

You say you struggle to understand why they dont.
But all people are different. And it is their choice at the end of the day.
Some people do nice behaviour, some people dont, and a lot are somewhere in between.
Perhaps they think that your bil or whoever is a bit frivilous?
Or would use it to fund a secret gambling habit. Or who knows? You could ask them I guess?

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:41:26

It is a mentality I don't understand.

ReallyTired Sun 30-Jun-13 22:42:52

There is a huge gap between the richest baby boomers and the poorest baby boomers. The majority of retired people live in povety with little hope of inheritance or increasing their income.

There are some very wealthy pensioners who frankly aren't taking their fair share of the financial pain. It is ridicoulous that all pensioners get the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes and TV licences.

However we have life far easier than our children. Our children have to pay huge university tutition fees and there is increasingly more intense competition for jobs. Increased immigration will increase the cost of housing further. It is likely the NHS will collapse in the next few years.

I expect that peopel will be shocked when we tell them that we bought a 3 bed terraced house for only 250K.

FamiliesShareGerms Sun 30-Jun-13 22:43:07

YANBEntirelyU - the thought of being able to retire in our 50s having paid off our mortage and a job pretty much for life is a pipe dream to all but the most privileged 20-40yo now. I really really think that there is a growing chasm between generations, which cannot be healthy for our country in the long term

FunnysInLaJardin Sun 30-Jun-13 22:43:12

TBF the OP is total bollocks and so why we all react, I will never know.

Purple2012 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:43:15

Yabu. My grandmother is relatively well off. Her dad lost
His leg in WW1, he then died when she was 12. She married but didn't have a happy marriage. She had 4 children and lived hand to mouth. She was in the army during WW2. She lived through bombings and hardship.

After 60 years of a hard life she was able to get her old age pension and a work pension. She doesn't own the house she lives in as my grandad owned it and left it to his children. She didn't have any rights as his wife when they bought it so wasn't a joint owner.

And to top it all off her eldest son died a few years ago.

So, no I don't begrudge her money and that she is reasonably well off. She has had years of struggling and I am pleased she is comfortable in her old age.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:44:12

Older people seemed to walk or bike for miles and miles.And had repetitive, bland meals. And a lot more problems in childbirth and other serious health issues. I could go on...

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:44:34

I think you're spot on ReallyTired. Things will only get worse for young people and for the middle aged. Interest rates will start to rise soon and that will push some over the edge.

PasswordProtected Sun 30-Jun-13 22:44:57

My parents aee 82 and 83. They were professionals, brought up 3 children. I am delighted that they can take holidays abroad, AND still want to, as and when they feel like it.
It makes me quite sad when my father talks about the work they have done on our family home as "preserving your inheritance". Why? Because they have enabled me, through education, to earn my own living.
They payed into the pot, as it was whilst they were in employment. Why should they now be disadvantaged?
For what it is worth, my father make a HUGE joke about the extra quid my mother got when she turned 80 - he is the younger of the two.
I was incensed at the "insult" of the system.
Let us be realistic, the demography is for an older population. They are mostly the ones, who have worked and paid the required contributions to underpin their old age. Why knock that?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:45:44

I think this thread is going to run and run, even if the op "gets" it midthread or not!

schooldidi Sun 30-Jun-13 22:45:48

YABU - I think dp and I are in a better position than either set of parents were at our age.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:46:22

Wow, can't believe how rude some people can be!

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:47:21

Yes, suebfg, but what has that got to do with the older generation. They have paid their dues in one way or another. And even if they havent, what has that got to do with us?

*Lots of them lived through world war 2.
I dont envy them one bit*

They didn't. The definition of baby boomer is those born in the post war period from 1945-1960.

Purple2012 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:47:58

Oh, and my parents are fairly comfortable now. We were poor when I was growing up. I remember my mum crying because she had a pound less than she thought in her purse.

Now, they have a decent amount of money, they give usgifts of money fairly regularly. They have nice holidays. I would rather they spend their money on themselves and not worry about us but they are too generous. I don't begrudge them their holidays either.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:48:18

You have posted in AIBU, and on a sunday night. fatal!

frogwatcher42 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:48:20

In fact this makes me really angry and the op must be ignorant.

Has he/she any idea of what life was like for the majority of the elderly. There was obviously the lucky ones in good jobs and a good life. But for the rest life was bloody hard. Really hard, harder than we will ever see as we have a great benefit system to pick us up and make life easier.

They had so little compared to us - if they have comfort now, surely that is a good thing.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:48:58

Clearly, yes

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:50:04

Akiss. She used ths subject heading "older retired generation".

Which is roughly 65 to 110 years old.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:50:06

It's greedy and graspy to expect to be left an inheritance
And it's immature to whine it's not fair that pil sped their own money as they wish
So it no inheritance,no holidays for your family member.tough,thems is the breaks

Mintyy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:51:03

Yabu. Younger generations have no concept of how spartan life was for the vast majority of people over retirement age now.

No central heating, no daily baths, no home phone, no supermarkets, no holidays abroad, no Primark, no ready meals, no takeaways, no gadgets (obv), no disposable nappies, no domestic appliances beyond a twin tub.

If retired people are slightly more comfortable now then fair play to them.

Although, they should def. give up the winter fuel allowance if they are well off.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:53:54

My family member in difficulty will probably die before the parents - inheritance isn't an issue. I would have thought they might want to help out. But then my parents are different - thank goodness.

BrianTheMole Sun 30-Jun-13 22:54:33

My parents didn't have it easy. They grew up in the war and lived hand to mouth for years. Not many people of their age round here bought, they all rented. And university absolutely wasn't an option. And receive an inheritance? No one had anything to leave, any savings their parents had went on there funerals. I don't begrudge them, or others like them, a single thing.

Ooh, where to start ... (YABVU, by the way).

Inheritance : WTF? Outside the pages of an Agatha Christie book, inheritance is completely unknown to me. No-one in my family ever had anything to leave besides their personal effects (clothes & furniture). Rely on inheritance? Why? I work for a living, FFS.

Large houses : My retired parents are in a two bedroom council flat, in a multi-storey. My grandparents were similar. One grandmother, widowed, confessed she'd love a bedsit - 'so much less work to clean'. Very happy when the council moved her to a one-bedroom flat.

Good pensions : Anyone retired now worked through the 70s and 80s, probably got made redundant at least once so have a couple of smaller pension pots and broken service, or had their pensions destroyed by thieving bastards like Robert Maxwell or had their company take a pension holiday for a few years. A favoured/lucky few may have escaped that.

ANd how do you think things were for the current retirees when they were young or middle-aged? Fucking hard, that's how. Women paid less than men and able to be fired for getting married/pregnant. Higher education for 5%, not 50%. Lower technology, so most people's jobs were manual/in factories/low-paid. Childcare next to non-existent, except from family. Holidays a long car journey to a B&B in Blackpool, in a good year. Laundry once a week in the communal laundrette (nobody had a washing machine). Telephone was a party line, once you got to the top of the queue and a number became available (yes, really).

Yes, you ARE fucking generalising. Massively. You have a very bad case of envy going on OP, and you really don't know what you are talking about.

pigletmania Sun 30-Jun-13 22:57:03

Yabvvu why shouldent people who worked hard njoy the fruits of their labour in the later years hmm

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:57:13

Get a life

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:58:13

"Yes, you ARE fucking generalising. Massively. You have a very bad case of envy going on OP, and you really don't know what you are talking about."

Yawn, read the thread. You don't know what you are talking about.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 22:58:48

Its Greedy,and graspy to sit and expect an inheritance

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 22:59:57

I'm not sitting and expecting an inheritance thanks

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:00:16

Suebfg I haven't read all of the thread, some of it.

You need educating. The pensioners of which you speak, came through the war, learned how to save, respect everything they made and earned and didn't squander it. Good luck to them. Long may they live to enjoy it. What do you want? A gas chamber?

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:01:01

The baby boomers didn't come though a war.

I'm very well educated thanks

Akiss. She used ths subject heading "older retired generation". Which is roughly 65 to 110 years old

Oh right, in that case I don't agree with the OP. It's the baby boomers who've screwed us, not the generation before them.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:01:56

I was referring to baby boomers

Didactylos Sun 30-Jun-13 23:02:31

angry you are falling for it - divide and rule
scapegoat a group and set us all against each other

Don't you think we (speaking rhetorically for my 25-35 yr old 'generation debt' age group) have more to set us in common with most baby boomers and pensioners than to set us apart?

we are, both groups watching the current government and financial system enrich the very richest and privatise our public services while for the average person we are all seeing our standards of living change, food, housing and utility prices increase, greater family pressures as structures of support are taken away, loss of jobs, zero hours and part time work only available, ATOS and the Workfare program, spare room tax, less support available for those who are carers, who have disabled children of any age, for those who have physical and mental health problems

I am reserving my ire not for some pensioner who fulfilled their part of what was then the social contract and is now being rewarded for this, but for the millionaires and buffoons in the cabinet (and the opposition) who swanned into parliament on a background of daddys money, private education, a braying self confidence and 1 weeks work in Selfridges, folding towels. Or just quietly lied on their CVs.

These are the people who are disconnected from the reality of life for most of us, these are the people passing regressive changes to the welfare state which target the most who are vulnerable, turning a blind eye to huge corporate tax dodging, sticking their hands in the till, enriching themselves and their friends, planning sell offs of any industry or resources not already handed over to millionaires and offshore companies who still need huge state subsidies and more taxpayer monies to give us a poorer service for more upfront costs, carrying out massive top down restructuring of public services that was not clear in their election manifestos, stopping funding for valuable local and small scale services and then expecting them to continue solely through volunteerism (then taking 3 million plus to find out its not really tenable)

Their sheer contempt for us as the electorate and people of this country is astounding and the big problem is as in this thread we often do their dirty work for them - believe their lies, look on each other with suspicion oh, hes a skiver, shes a welfare scrounger, I don't believe you are disabled.... Baby boomers are taking up too many resources.... everyone is out for all they can get so I might as well do it too....

This is a rant from someone in a very bad mood and I know the next thing someone is going to post is 'Well, what are you going to do about it/whats your alternative/theres no magic money tree you know

A more tempered post with some solutions may follow
Alternatively, you could all vote and put me in charge. Ill sort it out, Im dead gallus blush

charlottehere Sun 30-Jun-13 23:02:45

Agree

Mintyy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:03:03

So its your way or the high way is it sue?

Well I'm afraid you are simply coming across as a massive !"£$%^&.

Hopefully other posters will read the whole thread and realise it is not worth engaging with you.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:03:54

I think the op has had enough now.
op, perhaps you might want to ask for the thread to be pulled?
I dont know if MNHQ will do it or not.
And they may not do it until tomorrow mid morning.

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:04:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:06:05

No, I just think there are some really quite personal comments on here. People can make a point without being personal about it. So I am ill educated, greedy, and all manner of things???

lemonybarcode Sun 30-Jun-13 23:06:12

YANBU

I wonder if anyone has actually read the book that was linked to earlier. It supports the OPs assertions and is very well written and researched.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:06:49

Your cross as you think your pil should leave inheritance to the family concerned
I have read your thread and you think your family member is entitled to inheritance
You think pil should moderate spending,that is greedy and graspy attitude

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:06:50

Monty27, that is completely uncalled for.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:07:51

No, you are wrong scottishmummy - I don't think you have read the thread properly - but heyho, that seems par for the course on here tonight.

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:07:54

Why Yams?

OP has a right to say how she feels. And MNHQ does not put threads easily. Its said, its done. Why pull? Report it yourself, see what MNHQ says?

OP is expressing herself....

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:10:11

I'm sorry Sue I wouldn't offend if I didn't think what was being said is offensive. I wouldn't go out to do that.

I did say 'do tell' if you have an issue, but you haven't 'told' apart from being really awful about older people. sad

Not on.

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:10:15

There are now several pas on here, Monty, including yours.

bassetfeet Sun 30-Jun-13 23:11:04

Well off? oh how I wish OP.
Every spare penny was spent on my children. I havent had a holiday in 10 years or night away . Savings are enough to cover any immediate appliance breakdown and a funeral.
I am not complaining at all. This has been the way it is for all my adult life. And it is fine by me .
DO NOT make generations fight and feel resentful against each other .

Inheritance ? forget it . My dear mum is paying £600 a week for her care and all out of her savings and house sale . Most of it gone now.

We older people do care hugely for the struggles of the younger generation but we are not all on holiday and spending . Most of us are looking after our grandchildren and helping as much as we can .

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:11:04

MNHQ dont like bunfight threads, which is what this thread has become.

SoggySummer Sun 30-Jun-13 23:12:03

The 70's and 80's were pretty shit. My parents were out of work and I recall seeing my mum cry because we were so skint they were strugglin to feed us and thought they would loose the house.

They ended up OK though and yes have a home that we will never aspire too.

I think its wrong to assume they went through life tickety boo. They went through shit as well but I do agree - alot have come out the other end doing alot better than most of our generation ever will.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:12:26

I think referring to someone as unhinged is really below the belt. I think I have been measured in my responses and not personal.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:12:41

Unfortunately.I have read all the thread
Inc your protests thats it's not you seeking inheritance,it's a family member
I'm commenting upon your notion that pil should leave an inheritance. Greedy,graspy

Mintyy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:13:32

I don't think you have been measured in your responses actually sue.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:13:33

Oh give it a rest please. You are saying the same thing over and over again ....

Mintyy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:15:13

"yawn" and "get a life". I wouldn't describe those as measured.

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:16:35

Oh it's tough isn't it.not only do the pil have temerity to spend own money leaving no inheritance
Now you've got to contend with people disagreeing with you
No wonder you're irascible

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:19:04

Wow, wow, it's like a nest of vipers

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:19:47

Oh, so I'll bow to you to you and apologise for my diction ie 'unhinged'. It may be rather a strong word, as maybe uneducated may have been strong.

Does 'pissed off about something' serve it well.

I stand up for the pensioners who have looked after their hard earned cash and themselves smile

cocolepew Sun 30-Jun-13 23:20:09

Yabu.
My mum and dad are both 70, they went out to work at aged 14. My mum gave her wages to her widowed mum who, herself worked 12 hour days in a factory.
Neither got an inheritance because there was nothing to leave.
Why should your pil hand over money they worked for?

tallulah Sun 30-Jun-13 23:21:28

Yawn. This same subject seems to come up again and again and again and is always the same format. "Why should the baby boomers have..." then going on to talk about the elderly. Get it right people. Baby Boomers were born between 1947 and 1964.

I am a baby boomer. We have debts and no savings. I will have a civil service pension that gets smaller by the week. DH works in the private sector and has no pension at all. We bought our first house 30 years ago for £20k - a 2 bed terraced. Each time we moved up a bit prices had leapt - just like for everyone else. We have a 1930s semi that is nothing special - just like lots of other people. We won't pay off the mortgage until we are 65. Not blaming anyone else; we chose to have a number of children and they cost money. Had we stopped at 2 I expect we'd be raking it in hmm

Trying to compare people's lives across the decades is like comparing apples oranges and coconuts.

I completely agree with WhereYouleftIt. No tax credits, no central heating, no car, no phone. Lots of older people lived with their parents for years. People didn't move in together, have children, then expect to have a big house. YABVU OP. Have a biscuit

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:21:45

Such a lot on your mind,pil profligate spenders,no family inheritance
Mn nest of vipers
And all you ever said was yawn and get a life. Wouldn't say boo to the goose

yamsareyammy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:23:49

scottishmummy. With respect, you have said the same thing about 5 times now. Though I know you are allowed to do that.

OP : Contentious and offensive generalisation from her PIL to all retired people.

Vipers : You're wrong and this is why, expressed in robust MN style.

OP : You're all so rude and I'm ignoring your refutations because all I'm really interested in is shit-stirring. Yawn.

LuisSuarezTeeth Sun 30-Jun-13 23:25:24

You are clearly worried about this family member and have mentioned that you think they will die before the PILs. Ate they ill? Is that what's bothering you, OP?

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:26:09

Yes, they are very ill - nearly died last year.

LuisSuarezTeeth Sun 30-Jun-13 23:26:13

Sorry, are they ill...

LuisSuarezTeeth Sun 30-Jun-13 23:27:10

So you think pils need to support them more? Have you talked to them at all?

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:27:25

Well it's not an overly implicated thread,there no complicated moral tussle to explore
Op is greedy and graspy to expect her pil leave an inheritance
And she's in a huff. Hence the vipers,and yawn,and get a life

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:28:14

Yes I do think they should but I don't feel I know them well enough to raise it - they aren't my parents.

WafflyVersatile Sun 30-Jun-13 23:30:52

No they do not have it too cushy. We don't have it cushy enough.

Why not wish for better for those worse off instead of for those who are doing ok to be brought down to not good enough?

ThisIsMummyPig Sun 30-Jun-13 23:31:01

Of course, If the OP had come on and said how difficult life would be for the under 30s, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

I think that pensioners are seen to be protected by the current government (Guaranteed Pension Credit gives an income of £130 a week up, while jobseekers is only £71, no bedroom tax, free public transport etc) while working age people are not protected.

No way would I want my mothers life, or my grandmothers, although both of them have been rich in their retirements. Some things are worth more than money.

LuisSuarezTeeth Sun 30-Jun-13 23:31:09

Ah ok. Trouble is you've made some generalisations that have prevented a sensible debate and also not been able to address your worries.

It must be very difficult for you to watch this happening. Do the pils know exactly what is happening?

scottishmummy Sun 30-Jun-13 23:31:36

How fortuitous for your pil,that they're not subjected to your moralising about inheritance
Does your husband share your low opinion of his parents?

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:34:27

I did say in my post that I was generalising but then we all generalise based upon our personal experiences don't we? In their social circles, their friends are all the same.

Yes, of course, they know what is happening and I think it is particularly hard for the other sibiling who is really struggling. I think the other sibling is resentful and doesn't get much help from said parents as they are always socialisng/holidaying etc.

Mimishimi Sun 30-Jun-13 23:34:59

No, my grandparents generation were badly affected by WW2. They lost many cousins and friends. My paternal grandfather had ongoing serious mental health issues related to his service in SE Asia and as part of the occupation forces in Japan. My parents generation? They had to deal with the fallout from that during their childhoods. Their houses are worth more now but it still cost them a lot of their salary back then to buy. They were also affected by war, with many of thrir friends being forcefully conscripted to go to Vietnam ( in Australia). My dad said the conscription missed him by a day either side (it was like a bad luck lottery where they would call for all military age males born on a certain day). My dad did seem to retire a bit too early though.

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:37:22

Why don't you help these people out yourself OP if you care about them so much? Why assume the responsibility lies with the elderly?

Salmotrutta Sun 30-Jun-13 23:39:30

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:40:03

We do help out where we can but we both work, we don't live nearby and we have young children of our own.

Jan49 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:40:24

I think you forget that whilst some elderly people now live in nice homes that they've owned for years, they spent years getting those homes up to the standard you see today. They are likely to have grown up with no central heating, no bathroom, no washing machine and no car. Things that younger generations today see as necessities were luxuries to them.

I'm in my 50s and grew up in a house where only the living rooms were heated ever, the plumbing was basic and the toilet outside. I admire the older generations who coped with hardships which would be unthinkable now. My parents spent their lives in houses without basic "necessities".

Some pensioners now have things that younger generations won't have, such as a good pension, but I think on the whole they deserve it. Some people in their 20s and 30s think it's a hardship if they can't park outside their house and have to walk for 2 minutes or if the washing machine is out of order for a day.

LineRunner Sun 30-Jun-13 23:41:05

The elderly are not the issue. The great economic shift is centred around the age group that are 57 - 68.

suebfg Sun 30-Jun-13 23:41:15

Fine, dish out all the personal insults you want. Funny how people can be so brave with their insults ...

Salmotrutta Sun 30-Jun-13 23:44:12

Oh, and since DH and I have worked our socks off, we'll spend our money how we see fit. Hope that's OK with you OP? hmm

My parents are "elderly" and had very little spare money in the early years when we were growing up. But when times got better they finally managed to be in a position to have "treats".

I didn't grudge them that - and still don't.

MrsMook Sun 30-Jun-13 23:44:24

I'm happier to be raising babies today with appliences like washing machines and tumble driers to make my life easier than having to hand wash, boil nappies and dry indoors/ outdoors like my grandma-mum had to.
She's in a decent position now, but life wasn't always easy to get there. Her opportunities for education and work were restricted. House prices were more favourable compared to incomes- but interest rates were in double figures. Her house is fairly useless to her as an asset- unless she moves on, it is more likely to end up funding for care or as inheritance. She didn't inherit much from her mother.

Other people of her age group are in better circumstances, others much worse off.

I think corporate and personal greed has more to answer for than blaming one age group.

"Funny how people can be so brave with their insults ..."
Yes sue, you are. You really don't see how massively insulting your OP is, do you?

aldiwhore Sun 30-Jun-13 23:48:50

YABVU. The older generation are LUCKY that things turned out well for the, there's no need for hatred.

My folks worked so SO hard and they are enjoying a modestly happy life now.

YANBU to think that 'us lot' have a much harder time of it, it's harder to buy a house that will increase in value as house prices are sky high, it's harder to save, it's tough.

I don't resent my parents on bit.

THEY have what we all should have after a life of hard work. The injustice is that we probably won't be able to.

And our kids are screwed...

No point blaming our elders. We need to change. We meaning society. There was so much wrong with my parent's era (sexism, racism, struggles) but one thing that's turned out well is the ethos of work hard, and you can be rewarded.

Work hard now, and you just get screwed more. If you're an average person.

My FIL bought his house for £5k. It's on the market for £200k. 40 years later of course, you expect inflation, but outgoings are up, wages aren't up enough to compete, it's all a bit depressing.

But I don't resent my parents at all, they deserve the rewards of their hard work, and I've told them to spend every bloody penny because they made a lot of sacrifices for us kids over the years.

I can't see me being able to leave my children anything but good memories.... and actually, that's okay.

The times, they are a changing (again). We need to adjust.

aldiwhore Sun 30-Jun-13 23:52:36

For the record.

My FIL (78) is paying for his care, had no inheritance, worked fucking hard all his life to pay off his house and now that is paying for his care... fair enough actually.

My Mum and Dad worked hard, made money on their home, lost everything in the 80's crash, started over (with 3 teenage and expensive children) and because they're canny with money (they didn't pass this gene on to me) sorted themselves out alright, they're not on endless holidays, they're still working, they're well past pension age, they donate their WFA cash to the RNLI (their choice) but they can live comfortable due to luck, being smart, and modest retirement ambition.

op You're blaming the wrong people.

Monty27 Sun 30-Jun-13 23:53:28

Let's not forget mobile phones, internet, technology of all sorts, gym membership, constant clothes buying, stuff for babies, special buggies, bedrooms, ballet, extra curricular blah blah.

Stuff the elderly never had nor needed. Because they went out and shopped and toiled ever day on a budget. Long may they live to enjoy every penny they've saved.

Life seems warped from your point of view Sue

LuisSuarezTeeth Mon 01-Jul-13 00:12:55

Clearly your overwhelming feeling at the moment is anger. I'm sorry you feel like that - but it's not always helpful to criticise a general group because of a particular experience.

If the pils helped out financially, would it solve the problem?

Salmotrutta Mon 01-Jul-13 00:18:55

The problem with "helping out financially" is that it's a quick fix - unless parents have unlimited funds its not really a long term solution to an offspring's problems.

harverina Mon 01-Jul-13 00:47:35

I get where you are coming from op to an extent. I have retired relatives who have recently bought a larger, far nicer home (they live alone). They go on 2-3 holidays per year too.

But the flip side is that it took them till they were in their 60's to do this, wheras our generation have a far easier life earlier on - of course I am also making a huge generalisation as there are so many people living in horrific poverty but I think that even put description and definition of poverty has changed so much since our elderly relatives were younger. Poverty today is not the same as it was then. We would be horrified if children had no shoes or had barely eaten for days. We would also be horrified at the amount of labour young children were expected to so within families. (Of course this still happens - I suppose my point is that we no longer see this as the norm)

SilverOldie Mon 01-Jul-13 01:17:58

YABU

I'm retired, worked hard all my life despite being disabled, have a miniscule pension and haven't had a holiday in ten years. I do own my home but it's a 2 bedroom maisonette, not a large house.

Also did not receive an inheritance as my parents sold their house to move into sheltered accommodation.

Of course there are some people who have all you mentioned but the majority do not.

How sad to be so jealous of others. Get over yourself.

Salbertina Mon 01-Jul-13 01:32:04

Yanbu

MummytoKatie Mon 01-Jul-13 05:04:00

Op - I think this thread would have gone better if you had specified that you were talking about baby boomers not "older" in general.

Interestingly I was discussing this with my parents (who are babyboomers) earlier (before I saw your thread) and they do agree with you that they have benefitted from a unique set of circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated.

Sex is something that hasn't been mentioned - they are the only generation where sex was not like russian roulette in one way or another. When my parents were young the pill existed but life threatening STIs didn't which, apparently, was pretty great. (Cheers for sharing that one mother!)

House prices has been mentioned a bit already.

As a country we have been slow to wake up to just how long people live these days. When my mum worked in the DHSS in the 70s it was almost a long standing joke that men retired at 65 and were dead by 66. ("OMG everyone I've found a file on a man that is 67!") Nowadays, on average, you can expect to live into your 80s and so final salary pensions are not affordable. But a lot of baby boomers will get the FS pension and a nice long retirement that comes with being the crossover here.

On the other hand their childhoods were often very spartan as they were raised by parents who had lived through the war and rationing.

Finally it is important to remember that baby boomers are currently at the maximum of their wealth. They have almost certainly received all inheritances they ever will. They have just got any pension lump sum they will get. Until very recently they were still earning. And they haven't yet had to start paying for care.

Things may look very different for them in 10 / 20 years.

JessieMcJessie Mon 01-Jul-13 06:27:44

Both my parents died before they had had a chance to spend my inheritance. Lucky me, eh?

Leverette Mon 01-Jul-13 06:47:24

YANBU.

There is massive wealth concentrated in the hands of the oldest couple in my family - they both inherited farm sale cash back in the 70s when people tended to drop dead from strokes or heart attacks in their sixties.

Huge advances in medicine, surgery and anaesthesia mean we routinely keep people going for a further 25 years but often in a physical condition which means they require assistance.

I think inheritances as we understand them will pretty much disappear apart from within the very rich families.

If I could buy a house now I would put in my DCs names right from the start.

sleepywombat Mon 01-Jul-13 07:19:21

YABU
My mum is a baby boomer. She has had a really tough life.
Yes, she got inheritance from her rich, but stingy (due to wartime & I guess just from that 'make do & mend' era) parents when they died and was able to buy her own house after years of renting (she didn't/doesn't have a hugely well paid job despite being packed off to an expensive boarding school - in those days, they were still about sewing, cooking & etiquette in order to snare a good husband - which she didn't).
For many years she has been really mean on herself in order to save money for her old age & possibly my inheritance, especially as due to the financial crisis, her pension scheme is worth next to nothing. This year she decided to blow a load on an expensive cruise & had the most wonderful time. It was so good for her. I'd much prefer she had a happy old age than saved money for me & I hope she does another one next year.
Dh and I have both grown up without money. We have worked hard. We are used to living on a budget. We now have a small house (with a huge mortgage), but we are happy. We'll be fine.

YANVVU.

My father was born into poverty, "inherited" debt & was the only one of his family to go to university.

He worked bloody hard for his "cushy" retirement and will not have to sell his home to pay for care because he made proper preparations for his old age (and has me, obv.).

Dackyduddles Mon 01-Jul-13 07:34:00

Yabu and extremely dogmatic for selfish reasons.

You are not looking at that generation in its place in history, how life was, grew, changed, sociologically or historically.

Personally I dislike the 'want it all now' views and 'I can sing make me a star' attitudes of today. I dislike footballers earning millions. There are basically bigger things in our own generation to be worried about.

Callycat Mon 01-Jul-13 08:57:36

I'd like to comment on a recurring point in this thread - that the baby boomer generation have worked hard for their comforts.

That is true (in most cases, although certainly not all). But it was not the norm for baby boomers to work two, or even three, jobs just to cover rent and bills. It was not the norm for that generation to live hopping from short fixed term contract to contract, with no long-term job security. Those things ARE the norm for a large proportion of the under-45s.

I think the responses to the OP have been a little harsh.

lozster Mon 01-Jul-13 09:06:54

Agree with mummytokatie - be clear on the definition of baby boomers - they are not all older people and they most certainly did not fight in the Second World War!! I think the chief beneficiaries are those who went to grammar school/university and got to retire early on good pensions. I know quite a few people who fall on to this category and, quite frankly, they are deluded about the challenges younger generations face and generally don't appreciate the role that serendipity has played in their good fortune as well as their own hard work.

Nanny0gg Mon 01-Jul-13 09:29:40

God forbid that people who have worked hard for the last 50 years should reap some of the benefits.

I wish we were in that position. I've just 'retired' early (so no pension yet) for stress reasons, but still looking for work. My DH, in his late 60s works longer days than some much younger than him. The goalposts have been moved on my state pension so I have 7 1/2 years to wait for that and the ones I get in 18 months won't be for much.

We still have DC and DGC that we want/need to help and a DP who's in quite difficult health and financial circumstances.

We've had on holiday in three years and we never used to have annual holidays anyway.

Oh, and we've still got a mortgage.

So feel free to envy our 'cushy' lifestyle.

Do I envy those who were probably more sensible and prudent than us? Yes. But I don't begrudge what they have. I think they've earned it.

However, believe me, I do see the challenges that the younger generation face, especially in terms of work. There is certainly no longer the job security and availability that I had when younger. But because of the loss of industry, my DH has faced and survived redundancy many times. Not to mention 15% interest rates on our mortgage.
There also wasn't such easy access to credit and loans when we were younger, and I do feel we were more likely to 'make do' which is also responsible for the mess so many are in now.

cleoowen Mon 01-Jul-13 09:55:12

My parents and dh parents have it easy and retired in their early 60 s. Nice holidays, more than one house etc. dh s mum offered to lend us £100 k the other day as a temporary measure as moving until mortgage company pay up. We were shocked at how much they had and we had no idea.

My dad and dh s sd have great pensions as do my aunt and uncle both in public sector jobs. Yes I do think they are lucky and we will never have such a good pension, however, they worked hard for it all their lives so why not.

My dad has given us and dgc chunks of money recently I think to avoid inheritance tax. So we are very lucky and will probably be set up but I would like to be able to do the same for my DC a but doubt we will be able to.

Dhs mum recently argued with him about why we are worried about money in the future as a he is an only child and parents split up so will get inheritance from both sides. My df disagrees and completely agreed with paying into our pensions. We may we ok as we are lucky both sets of parents are in a good position but I am not willing to take the risk as all this might go to paying for their care. I do think we will have it harder yes.

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 01-Jul-13 11:07:08

A reminder of our talk guidelines.

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 11:10:51

oh so the oldies are not supposed to enjoy their reitrement and spend THEIR OWN MONEY they are still responsible for their adult children and they need to get their money Pfft let them enjoy themselves they have worked for it, and FWIW not all retired people live like that some really struggle but i I guess you are talking about the rich ( or your parents are they spending all your money dear are you sweating a bit )

ladymontdore Mon 01-Jul-13 11:17:44

Haven't read whole thread but, OP, I get where you are coming from.

It only makes me cross when my DM tells me that people should really have paid off their mortgages by 40! She never had to work, they bought houses at just the right time, inherited money at just the right time, benefits of NHS, antibiotics, plentiful fuel, no world wars etc. Our generation just aren't going to have it so easy!

persimmon Mon 01-Jul-13 11:23:12

Babyboomers didn't live through WW2 as several posters have claimed.

angelos02 Mon 01-Jul-13 11:28:50

YANBU. My DF can't understand why DH & I are struggling to get onto the housing ladder when we earn a good income. He just doesn't get it. His first house was 1 x his salary!

LessMissAbs Mon 01-Jul-13 12:06:38

YANBU DH's PIL are typical. Retired in their early and late fifties respectively from public sector jobs on final salary pension schemes with large lump sums. Benefitted from free uni education, and have a far better house than their children can afford, despite having better jobs.

BUT both worked full time and MIL returned to work after having three children. Two out of their three DIL work only a few hours a week.

doingthesplitz Mon 01-Jul-13 12:51:47

YABU. A lot of that generation worked very hard most of their lives without the benefit of foreign holidays, eating out, household conveniences and a lot of other stuff that younger generations take for granted. Some of them would have lived through post war austerity, many many of them would have had no opportunity to receive a third level education; lots of them built up careers or businesses by starting at the bottom with nothing. I hate it when people get all bedgruding about a generation that are finally able to relax a bit about money and enjoy a few luxuries for the first time int heir lives. Very very mean attitude.

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 12:59:12

I hate it when people get all bedgruding about a generation that are finally able to relax a bit about money and enjoy a few luxuries for the first time int heir lives. Very very mean attitude.

I agree with you it is just mean , these people can spend their money how they like imo

FunnysInLaJardin Mon 01-Jul-13 13:16:31

mrsjay I was just about to post the same. I really don't get the hatred towards the 'baby boomers' as though it's their fault that they have done OK and other generations not so well. Very odd

VestaCurry Mon 01-Jul-13 13:24:27

I can't say yabu or yanbu, but I'm not sitting on the fence either!

I'm in my late forties and for every 60something married couple who have one or two index-linked pensions between them, property here and a holiday home plus a cruise and another £££ holiday each year, I know people of the same age living hand to mouth, in real poverty eeking out their state pension and others who have very modest pensions from their working life which keeps the wolf from the door.

Then my generation, I remember during the eighties, so many friends losing their home, because though it might have been say a studio flat, interest rates rocketed and then property prices plummeted. Result: massive negative equity, massive mortgages which stretched people to breaking point and defaulting. It took many years for some of them to recover financially. Others were much much luckier, able to ride a wave where house prices in eg London were soaring and they became millionaires almost overnight.

There are always winners and losers. My mother was a 'baby boomer'. She killed herself after losing her home when my Dad's small business went bust and the bank took the house.

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 13:28:02

mrsjay I was just about to post the same. I really don't get the hatred towards the 'baby boomers' as though it's their fault that they have done OK and other generations not so well. Very odd

I know it is as if they are foot stomping and say HOW VERY DARE THEY have a life after working/ raising children it is odd . my parents are not that well off dad is still working mum is too part time but they go on a couple of holidays a year meals out etc why shouldn't they, my dad is retiring age but works still what are they meant to do with their life save all the money for me my sister and grandchildren confused

Greydog Mon 01-Jul-13 14:40:20

I think, now that I've calmed down - slightly! - that the reason the OP seems to be so upset and begrudging is that she has relatives who need help and can't get it? I could be wrong, that is what I'm reading in the posts now? But it's still not nice to slag off us older folk. (I only had central heating installed last year! Imagine that!)

Callycat Mon 01-Jul-13 18:36:36

I didn't see OP "slagging off" older folk, Greydog. The frustration is at the situation, not the individuals.

Emilythornesbff Mon 01-Jul-13 19:52:30

I do worry about my children's generation.
House prices are extortionate compared with the time if my baby boomer parents.
University seems to be essential, yet costs thousands of pounds a year, whilst previously it was free to students.
Plus, there's so much more that ppl are expected to buy.
So,in some ways I seewhatopis saying.

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 20:04:59

There is no automatic entitlement or progression towards uni,or mortgage
It's almost become a global expectation,to own property and graduate uni
I was the 1st in family to go uni,my parents were council tenants.its not a give it will happen for our kids

Realistically,one needs to prepare kids for work,studies and yes they'll incur debt.Sometimes that's just how it goes
I had debt at uni,no bank of mum and dad,and no inheritance

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 20:08:50

I agree with scottish money what is wrong with children grown children doing their own thing off their own back and earning their own bloody money,

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 20:09:15

scottishmummy obv not scottish money not even sure what that was about confused

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 20:21:09

Home ownership,uni were until relatively recently not a majority pursuit
Since council house sales,and uni expansion they have dramatically expanded
Still doesn't make automatic.and inheritance,well that's privileged and can't be relied upon

If you want your kids to own home,be secure it will largely be own to them
Unless you're the bank of mum and dad,and they're expecting a gap year,or handout.there no entitlement to parents monies

digerd Mon 01-Jul-13 20:23:04

My dad never had credit other than the mortgage and was very careful with the little money he earned. In 1984 he had at last paid off his mortgage and was over the moon. He died 3 months later of a coronary Heart Attack aged 75.
My sis's FIL also died at 75 from the same and my FIL died of prostrate cancer at the same age in 1989. They were all in WW2 and left little in the way of inheritances.

LessMissAbs Mon 01-Jul-13 20:25:34

But I do think its a valid social comment. DH and I are professionals but are doing up our own home because we can't afford to pay tradesmen to do it. We have professional friends who live in pretty slummy areas of town because its the only way they could get on the housing ladder. its not exactly novel that people working in the professions should buy houses, but without help, most of them cannot afford to buy a house anywhere near the standard of their parents.

If the previous generation did benefit from free tertiary education, low house prices and council house sales, then its a poor show on their part if they didn't set themselves up for a comfortable retirement.

DH's parents are useless in a crisis because they've never had to struggle. My parents were feckless and didn't plan ahead. FIL retired at 53 and has spent half his life not working but still enjoys an enviable standard of living. DH's parents exhibit a similar type of irresponsibility, except they spend their substantial savings on foreign homes (2) and motorbikes and caravans. They are on their fourth motorhome in the past ten years, the others all sold at substantial losses because they didn't like something about the layout. They can't understand why DH and I dont have more things, and are convinced its my fault in some unspecified way, and question me closely about what I do exactly at work and whenever they find out im on annual leave.

wordfactory Mon 01-Jul-13 20:26:40

The baby boomers lived and prospered in incredible times.

Good luck to them.

However, given how fortunate many of them were, I do think it behoves them to try to understand what life is like for the younger generation. Tghese young people are having it horribly tough.

Emilythornesbff Mon 01-Jul-13 20:31:32

I don't begrudge ppl good fortune.
I also feel very sad that many elderly ppl are living in poverty.
But it is harder for younger ppl I think in many ways, certainly in comparison with my parent's generation.

Many jobs require a BA or Bsc minimum now whereas piously they didn't. Yet there is almost no state funding for tertiary education. So debts are incurred by the stunts or their parents.

A large proportion of baby boomers were able to pay their mortgages off before they ached their 50s. That is extremely rare these days.
Early retirement would appear to be a thing of the past.

It's a shame.

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 20:32:01

So what if they holiday,buy caravans,profligate spenders,it's their money
You seem to be suggesting poor you,plodding along whilst they spend at will?
Are you honestly suggesting pil and your parents moderate their spending to support two adults?

Emilythornesbff Mon 01-Jul-13 20:33:34

FFS. stunts? = students.

jollygoose Mon 01-Jul-13 20:33:46

UABU when you hear about the supposedly ridiculous price the olds bought their homes for you should realise it was all relative to earnings at the time. In my ownparents time mortgages were only available to "professional" people. KI fyou happened to work in a factory it didnt matter if you were skilled or not you were turned down.
Yes its very hard for the early 20s generation but think of the other opportunities they have had - the foreign holidays/gap years and the fun times at uni.

mrsjay Mon 01-Jul-13 20:37:15

not all jobs require degrees not all children will do professional jobs,

oh and we are buying a big fuck off motor home when the kids leave grin

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 20:41:38

Some if you live in a privileged bubble.back in the day most folk didn't go uni,or inherit
Those 5% who did get to uni were generally middle class,and not representative
One male wage used to keep a family,that's not case anymore.times change.and exoectations need to change too

wordfactory Mon 01-Jul-13 20:43:57

scottish I agree that times have changed dramatically.

The baby boomer times were an aberation.

I just wish they'd accept it too!

LessMissAbs Mon 01-Jul-13 20:45:24

You've got quite an imagination there, scottishmummy. I cannot think of anything id find more abhorent than 'being supported' by two rich OAPs lording it over our lives. Where did I give the impression that DH and I did not have well paid jobs? I very much doubt we will inherit anything and im not all interested, because we have put in place what we bed to have a comfortable future ourselves.

We have however worked a damned sight harder for it than PIL. No cushy 9-5 jobs for us, Our wedding was in a registry office, our holidays abroad are often in youth hostels (unlike the skiing holidays PIL had) and we dont currently have a shower or kitchen. And we won't be retiring at 53 on a final salary pension scheme. But we are in a better situation than students going our fields now who face not only having no maintenance grants, but loans, tuition fees and unaffordable housing.

gordyslovesheep Mon 01-Jul-13 20:45:37

YABU if 'the elderly' or 'the retired' have good pensions and nice houses it is because they earned them - they worked, they paid into a pension and they paid a mortgage

Not every pensioner is rich - many live isolated lives in poverty

Inheritance is not a right - you don't earn someone elses money

intarsia Mon 01-Jul-13 20:47:13

YABU. The reason they are well off is that they never had access to easy credit and lived to their means. I remember my mum buying hand knitted jumpers from jumble sales , unpicking the wool and reknitting it for jumpers for us. She was always re-sewing clothes into something else. That kind of thing rarely happens today

wordfactory Mon 01-Jul-13 20:48:43

gordy many baby boomer pensions were extremely generous. They have been scrapped now for the upcoming generations.

As I say, good luck to 'em. But they didn't deserve them. Any more than you, I or our DC don't deserve somehting similar.

Ditto houses. Prices reasonable. Mortgages doable. That's just luck!

Shenanagins Mon 01-Jul-13 21:00:33

Yabu. My parents now have a very cushy life but they earned it.

they did not have the opportunity to go to uni but got a trade. My mum gave up work after their first child as that was the done thing in those days even though she would have loved to have had a career.

my dad worked 6 days a week and some nights to make ends meet whilst mum was left at home to look after 3 children. This included Christmas day for no extra pay.

they scrimped and saved every penny, never living on credit - if they didn't have the money they didn't get it, including holidays. The only loan they had was a mortgage in which they somehow survived huge interest rates that would put most of us under.

i don't expect to get their house as an inheritance but it will piss me off that the government might get it given how much they worked for it and how they were the generation that was sold the lie that by paying into national insurance will protect you.

ok, i get that the younger generation do have it tough but too many seem to think the world owes them something without them sacrificing their lifestyle.

gordyslovesheep Mon 01-Jul-13 21:05:45

they paid into a pension scheme - they got good returns - i fail to see why they don't deserve the money they where promised

holidaybug Mon 01-Jul-13 21:06:11
LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Mon 01-Jul-13 21:46:08

What utter utter crap the OP is. Take a walk around any ex-mining town in the Welsh valleys and then tell me the oaps you see there are having it large at the expense of the young.

I can't ever remember being so angry at the blinkered stupidity.......

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 22:03:51

Abs,you complained your pil/parents holiday,buy caravans whilst your repair own home?
Do you think they should moderate their spending,help you out?if so why
They free to spend own money as they wish.they're under no compulsion to be thrifty

boschy Mon 01-Jul-13 22:14:15

<as a complete aside: scottish mummy, why do you not write sentences? it's like reading haiku!>

re babyboomers. my mum and PIL are too old to qualify, but both are now living in much better style than us. do I begrudge them? No, but nor do I understand why they don't 'get' the economic situation. and as far as our children are concerned, I am much more worried for them and their future. Its the next generation that are REALLY fucked financially.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 01-Jul-13 22:21:48

Your parents and grandparents who if in their eighties were growing up during the war, even if 10 years younger still lived through rationing and the really poor conditions we don't experience ourselves.
They worked hard and paid their tax and deserve to live their old life in luxury.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 01-Jul-13 22:29:38

I think this generation expect too much and aren't prepared to start of at the bottom like we did.
In many places in the North you can buy 2 bedroom terraces from 35k upwards that need renovating. But people expect to move into 3 bed semis all done up. We had to get our hands dirty, learn how to plumb, mend and fix to own our own home, as our parents did before us.
We didn't have credit, except for a mortgage, no car, holidays etc. You had these when your dc were a bit older and you were more on your feet.
We had hand me downs for the first 10 years of our marriage. This is how we mamaged to own 2 houses outright and afford a few luxuries. It has taken us 25 years to get here.

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 22:34:41

Some seem to have a huge sense of entitlement.no one is due monies from parents
One lives within means,and accommodates whats affordable,not griping about inheritance
Adults with capacity,can and should have control and choice over their monies

yamsareyammy Mon 01-Jul-13 22:44:42

boschy, attention.
But she can write how she wants.

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 22:51:29

Like most on mn,I write it as I think it,As compared to writing stage directions
No<creepy wee brackets>. Hey ho Everyone has Their own habits
There are the first biscuitbiscuit Huns, the humphy facesangryhmm and the good ole days crew

The 60-70yrs olds are all dropping like flies IME. Post war indulgence leading to appalling lifestyles, crap in the foods, yet to be regulated chemicals everywhere, lots of smokers etc.

For those who ask why it is essential to own a home tis simple. Mortgages (if you can get them) are cheaper than rent in many areas. Legislation protects property owners and their tidy incomes.

morethanpotatoprints Mon 01-Jul-13 22:56:54

Scottish Ditto.

I love the way you post, even if I don't always agree with what you say grin

scottishmummy Mon 01-Jul-13 23:01:28

Its not essential to be homeowner,it's desireable but not attainable by all
That's the rub.one may really wish for home ownership etc but it's not a given
Certain areas,and localities have prohibitive prices,so one has to make decisions to suit own finances

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs Mon 01-Jul-13 23:30:38

But why the hostility to the older generation? Just because you perceive they have had "more" than this generation?

What do you propse they do to set it right in your mind, OP? Should they give all their (possibly pretty moderate) income and their worked-for and paid-for homes to the Government, to give to our generation? Really cannot see what it is you want them to do about it!!

What is the point in comparing and being envious? Do you have similar bad feeling to others who have more? Those lottery winners have it too cushy...those "celebrities" and footballers... I think sometimes in this society today, all the wrong people are "rewarded". I have no problem with people who have worked, earned a living wage and saved having a few holidays.

LessMissAbs Mon 01-Jul-13 23:51:02

Scottish_mummy. I am telling you this for the second time now. I do not want my bloody PIL's money. it is all in your imagination. Which is clearly more fertile than your written comprehension.

Why comment? Because they are quite feckless, and would struggle in today's climate. Because its social commentary, its part of history, how things change from generation to generation and because im not dead to the world and notice these things.

You may have an obsession with inheritance. I do not. I have not mentioned inheritance other than in replying to you, DH and I have bought our property without any assistance and we dont want any fucking inheritance because I cannot think of anything worse than living my life in hope of one. Tbh it would come too late in our lives to make any difference.

I'm sorry for you if you think the only reason for commenting on peoples profligate spending habits is because you assume everyone is so obsessed with inheritance as you.

timidviper Tue 02-Jul-13 00:09:12

There are winners and losers in every generation. For every wealthy had-it-easy baby boomer there is an impoverished unlucky pensioner just as for every young person struggling to get on there is someone else wanting life handed to them on a plate.

DH and I are just after the baby boom, we own our house having been lucky enough to get on the property ladder which we would probably not today. Having said that, we had hand-me-down furniture, did our own renovations and did without a lot of things that our children would class as essentials. Again swings and roundabouts.

I know I have mentioned this before but an accountant told me recently his theory that a lot of the economic woes of the country are due to the larger numbers of elderly. Firstly because they cost more in pensions and healthcare but also because, in previous generations, their wealth would have been inherited by now and more of it would have been spent. Older people often live more frugally and save more so locking money out of circulation and slowing the economy. Whether that is a reasonable theory or not I don't know.

Changeasgoodas Tue 02-Jul-13 00:59:01

Being in my fifties I do feel embarrassed by the easy life I had compared to those in their twenties - I'm not retired yet though. Average lower middle class childhood, tinned food but no outside toilets. Excellent grammar school education. Able to play outside without parental fear of abduction. Parents not pressured to be "stimulating" me so could just play out with friends. Full grant to go to uni as parents earned under the generous threshold. Saturday and holiday jobs easily come by since age of 14 because lots of temp work available, no competing against half of Europe with CVs full of unprovable work experience for such jobs. Housing benefit available to students. Travelling in twenties, easy to get a casual job, save for a bit, go travelling, come home to benefits and then another casual job or do things like grape picking or kibbutz work abroad. Bought first flat with deposit from small inheritance from grandparents, rode the market up since then. Grandparents had daily visits from district nurses and council paid carers near the end as this was before means testing for care so easy on the family..

Yes we had less "stuff" but we were not bombarded from all sides by slick, targeted, heavily researched advertising so it was a lot easier to say no to "stuff". Magazines were staffed by journalists, not by people editing PR releases which aim to tell you you are a lesser person if you don't own x,y,z and look like a,b,c. Relationships were not put under pressure by strip/lapdancing clubs in every town and on tap porn coming into the home via the net......etc.etc. etc.

I have had opportunities and freedoms that are available to a far smaller section of British society today now than they were through most of my life. I consider myself incredibly lucky and do my best to give back where I can. I would like to see young people become far more politically active to see if they can fight to win back these opportunities and freedoms. If it comes at my detriment, so be it, I've had more than my fair share of them.

lozster Tue 02-Jul-13 01:37:09

Bravo changeasgoodas you are indeed who I think of as a lucky baby boomer - except you are smart enough to realise the advantages you had and empathetic enough to relate to younger generations. I'd forgotten that students were no fees, got grants AND could claim benefits!

twofingerstoGideon Tue 02-Jul-13 07:47:59

Haven't read past first page, but here goes:

If young people didn't spend tens of thousands of pounds on fairytale weddings and week-long stag and hen events, they'd be able to put a deposit down on a flat.

(Answers big, biased sweeping generalisation of an OP with equally nonsensical comment...)

digerd Tue 02-Jul-13 07:48:28

We got no financial help from our parents as they didn't from their's.

mrsjay Tue 02-Jul-13 07:56:59

I am finding DD (20) can act a bit spoilt and entitled as her friends are handed cars/flats/money on a plate it is a constant battle with her as we do not hand her anything she lives here still gets fed and watered obviously and the odd tenner here and there, but So n SO got a new car last week and thingy gets their rent paid by parents now these parents are not what i would say as loaded have ordinary jobs I just dont understand how they can afford it and why they do it confused

BikeRunSki Tue 02-Jul-13 07:58:02

It is fairly well established that the generation.who are retiring now have benefitted well from tax payer investment and a good economy.
recent newspaper article.

I am hoping that inheritance supply will run out as older generations have to pay for care. That should slow down the price of property as that is what most people use if for.

I only hope that it runs out sooner rather than later.

Most people NEED inheritance to survive. I am fortunate enough to have bought a very small first house in London at the age of 40 (far small for 3 kids, one who has a disability but that's another thing), but just before we snapped up this falling down shed, our rent plus commute was more than our income. DH has a job/specialism that means it would be incredibly difficult for him to get a job outside of London, or a different career now he has being doing this one all his life.

Salbertina Tue 02-Jul-13 08:06:32

Change- excellent post, says it all and admire how you appreciate the advantages this generation had. With you on the need for much more political activism by the young. They need to fight for a much stronger political voice to get a fairer deal

soverylucky Tue 02-Jul-13 08:14:35

The biggest problem is housing costs. I am in the north west in a very working class area and even here the cheapest you will buy a tiny terrace in need of some work is 70k. I know the problem is far, far worse down south.
I think the average wage is something like 23k (stand to be corrected on that one) So you can see how unaffordable houses are for young families. You used to be able to comfortably get a mortgage that would enable you to purchase a home for 3x salary - so there should be loads of houses around the 69k point. There aren't. No where near. It is a scandal.

soverylucky Tue 02-Jul-13 08:15:14

oh and changeasgoodas - brilliant post!

raisah Tue 02-Jul-13 08:24:23

If they had to rely on the state more to fund their retirement you would be complaining so they can't win either way. It was a combination of events which resulted in the older generation benefiting so much & it will not happen again to that extent.

My dad bought his house for £20k and it is now worth over 250k. Whereas my first house was near that mark, I dont begrudge him that as he worked v hard for his retirement and paid all his taxes etc. So he deserves to enjoy the fruits of his labour.

Crumbledwalnuts Tue 02-Jul-13 08:29:42

I think you can probably blame Labour for the bitter sense of injustice you feel. Works for me.

twofingerstoGideon Tue 02-Jul-13 09:10:09

Change - I get what you're saying, but am guessing you were from a fairly middle class background if your grandparents had an inheritance to give you. I'm a baby boomer, too, but my parents worked in factories and my grandmother was a single parent in the days before universal benefits, so brought up my mum and her siblings on the pittance she earned in the Co-op. They literally shared one double bed (mother and 3 kids) and lived in one room. For families like mine, university was never on the horizon, as it simply wasn't part of our culture, even though it might have been 'free'. I do agree that work was easy to come by during the sixties and seventies (at least it was in the south-east), even for people without qualifications, like me, and that's something I think is really hurting the younger generation. I don't think baby boomers are to blame for that, though, but the death of UK manufacturing industries coupled with global competition, etc. My DD is trying to find a part-time job to help her through college and it's nigh on impossible.

I know very few baby boomers who enjoyed the life you describe, except for friends from middle class backgrounds.

I do agree that the young need to be more politically active. At our last local election I was the youngest in the polling station by far, and probably the only person who wasn't voting UKIP.

I think this 'blame the baby boomers' stuff is the usual old divide-and-rule rhetoric used by politicians of all shades.

digerd Tue 02-Jul-13 09:16:45

soverylucky
How right you are. A scandal indeed.

toomanycourgettes Tue 02-Jul-13 09:26:34

My parents couldn't afford to buy their first house until they were in their mid forties. They both started work full time at age 14. They had few holidays and saved hard for them. They never, ever ate out in restaurants. Dad used to have a couple of pints at the local on a Friday or Saturday night. They have saved as much as possible for their old age. Do I begrudge them their relatively comfortable retirement/old age. No. I think they worked very hard for it, and I am very happy that they do not need to worry about how they are going to afford to live.

I'll be back on Mumsnet in 30 - 35 years to see what everyone's saying about their situation when they're pensioners..... and whether they are deserving of a 'cushy' life on the backs of hardworking younger generations. 'Twas ever thus.

I also think we expect far too much at too young an age and don't see it as our responsibility to save for our own futures. One of the downsides of the welfare state is that we now expect that someone else will foot the bill, and we complain when all our needs are not met by the state.

pinkandred Tue 02-Jul-13 09:30:32

YABU, lots of pensioners have a nice life now during retirement but that is how it should be (although its certainly not cushy for all pensioners) . I know its not going to be like that when I retire and I certainly wish it would be but I don't begrudge the pensioners of today a nice life.

That kind of attitude is similar to the way the country is making all the cuts at the moment. It should be a race to the top, not a scramble to the bottom. We don't want everyone brought down a level, we should be looking at ways to make things better for future pensioners, not make cuts to existing ones.

Kinnane Tue 02-Jul-13 09:33:53

The state pension is about £100 per week. I do not envy them.

Kinnane Tue 02-Jul-13 09:35:23

Totally agree,pinkandred.

lougle Tue 02-Jul-13 09:38:57

My Dad is 63. He was born 5 years after the war - there was still rationing then. In fact, I've just looked it up and meat and bacon ended at midnight on 4th July 1954.

My Mum and Dad have no savings, a mortgage they struggle to service and may well lose their home, which they've clung to for 25 years, through multiple redundancies.

Dad worked in any job he could get and worked abroad for much of our early childhood - 3 months out, 3 weeks home. They had to relocate on the same day if a job came in. Mum had to stop at a payphone half-way up the motorway to tell her boss that she wouldn't be reporting for work because she was moving to Cumbria.

Another time, Dad was offered a Married-Status job while Mum was out getting food shopping. At that time, there was one phonecall - you either take it or leave it. Dad had to decide whether the whole family relocated to Brunei for 2 years, without consulting Mum. We went.

Only ignorant people or those seeking a bunfight generalise so much.

If my parents had any money, I'd tell them to spend every penny.

Arabesque Tue 02-Jul-13 09:50:18

Oh God, we hear people going on like this here in Ireland as well. I mean, Ireland was a very poor country until relatively recently so most of the older generation would have grown up with very little; parents often didn't even own their home; staying on at school do complete your education was a luxury; University a privilege for the very well off. That generation really struggled, raising families on very very little, and making huge sacrifices in many cases to put their children through universities. Those who ended up reasonably comfortable through prudent investments etc were usually very generous about helping their children get on the property ladder and now, following our economic meltdown, are often helping those children with their mortgages and bills or offering free child care so both parents can go out to work.
But still they get criticised by some mean minded begrudgers for daring to go on the odd holiday, eat out occasionally, play golf, have a house that's worth a lot more than they paid for it years and years ago. I can't stand that attitude. Unbelievably selfish!

Kinnane Tue 02-Jul-13 10:40:18

Grandparents who earned £9 and £8 when they got their first morgage and paid 11% to 15% interest for many years on said morgage and lived on soup and toast for dinner. I am so proud of them. I never hear them complain and they help their family in every way they can.

Kinnane Tue 02-Jul-13 10:41:42

Araesque, So true!

Salbertina Tue 02-Jul-13 11:08:50

The discussion is about generational not individual disparity. For every parent/grandparent helping, they'll be many more unable/unwilling to help the next generation. My parents? Clueless- no help with getting on housing ladder etc or while i was at university. My mother martyishly speaks of how she had to work in the uni library a morning a week while a student, forgetting that i was working several evenings and every Sat in Mcdonalds/local pub while i was a student as they failed to make up my grant!!!
It is not the fault of the baby-boomers directly as individuals that they've had it so good. It IS the fault of successive governments who daren't take on such a large and influential portion of their voters by means -testing various benefits and re-evaluating the tax system.

Viviennemary Tue 02-Jul-13 11:15:00

You cannot possibly generalise about this. Yes some older people are well off because of good pensions (which means they probably had a good job) or inheritance or other. But a lot are not well off at all and can only afford the basics. Some of the people on MN seem to be very well off indeed. Incomes of £100,000 plus and yet seem to be broke. Poor souls!

Badvoc Tue 02-Jul-13 11:24:49

My parents are pensioners. They have both worked since they were 15.
Mum retired through ill health 6 years ago.
My dad is 67 and still works and will do so until his health deteriorates.
I wouldn't describe their life as cushy tbh.

thegreylady Tue 02-Jul-13 11:28:35

I suppose I am lucky. I have a teachers pension and so does dh. We own our house ( a fairly modest bungalow) outright. All our dc are homeowners (aged between 38 and 44) we have no real savings as we have helped our dc over the years but we are very happy and quite comfortable. I am 68 and dh is 77. We both worked hard and brought up our children, we give our wfa to Age Concern. None of our 5 dc begrudge us our security and all have decent professional careers. My parents never owned a house and I had a grammar school education.

nokidshere Tue 02-Jul-13 11:33:35

I will never get why people are so keen to see other people suffer.

Its not like pensioners had a choice about the cost of housing or the pensions on offer - that was what was available at the time. Are you seriously saying that if those things were on offer today you wouldn't take them? or that if your house value had risen in the same way as theirs you would be upset and try and give it away?

Pensioners have been taxed on their earnings, taxed on their savings, taxed on their pensions and taxed again when they die, not forgetting the massive interest rates they have paid over the years - I think they are entitled to enjoy whatever they have earned despite the climate in which they earned it.

Stop moaning about what everyone else has and get on with enjoying yours or making sure that you can enjoy your own retirement.

Salbertina Tue 02-Jul-13 11:38:03

Governments have to generalize based on demographic, financial data/predictions in order to set policy. Really what the hell are we let alone are kids going to have??? I am not expecting a state pension to still be in existence when i need it (despite many years of paying in) nor free medical/homecare and will probably still be paying off our massive mortgage and uni fees well into my 60s! I cannot conceive of how my kids will get on the housing ladder. At all.

curryeater Tue 02-Jul-13 11:38:38

It's hard for me to see how / when young people today have the chance to make the money they need for a comfortable life.

- They are all expected to stay in education for ages, and pay for it too (as opposed to previous generations, where it was possible to leave school at 16 and work, or if you did go to university you had a grant for the fees at very least. So every worker started at whatever age at a baseline of zero, instead of significant minus figures as they do now)

- Because of the 50% being expected to stay in education for ages and attempt to support themselves at the same time (although not really, significant debt is expected, so "attempt" is the operative word) there is a huge flexible army of young desperate workers with low expectations, reducing the chances of the other 50% to earn a living wage in the service economy

- meanwhile there is no manufacturing or industrial work to do instead

- They will have to pay heavily into pensions all their working lives, alongside their loan repayments

- at the same time, renting is fiendishly expensive as there is no council housing for young, childless people, and many will not be able to live with parents and be available for work, as work is concentrated in certain areas which are very expensive to live in (but really, did our parents expect to live with their parents at 22, 23, 24, 25, 26? You became an adult when you left school and got a job. Which is increasingly deferred - adulthood deferred, status and dignity deferred)

- meanwhile, wondering whether there is a way to put £800 a month rent money FOR A ROOM to better use, they find that they will need to save something like £50k as a deposit for a house. Taking a pack-up to work instead of buying a sandwich will save them about a grand a year, optimistically, so only 50 years to that deposit then.

- the nhs is going to disappear, or will require top ups from users. The pensions are going to disappear. Public transport is increasingly expensive. Petrol, utilities, all forms of energy cost more all the time. But in a life that starts with long, paid for education, goes into low paid work and high costs of living and ends with private pensions, when are the years where you save? where is the moment when you finally get to make some money?

At the top I said "for a comfortable life". I mean

A house big enough for children
Time and money enough to eat well
Time to spend with your family and on hobbies
Don't worry about healthcare (remember the NHS won't be covering this properly soon)

More of the older generation took all this for granted far more than the younger ones will.
Oh but we can despise them because they have funny hair

curryeater Tue 02-Jul-13 11:51:47

Coincidentally, just came across this article after writing that

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/young-and-isolated/?_r=1&

It's the "adulthood deferred" part that is saddest, in a way - people just want to get down to life and are always told that the good stuff is round the next corner - and they aren't good enough yet

mateysmum Tue 02-Jul-13 12:00:19

I was born at the end of the baby boom years and am not yet retired. I think the availability of final salary pension schemes will prove to be the biggest benefit to my generation, but I do resent this whole "baby boomers sucked everything out" attitude. How were we supposed to predict the economic future 30yrs ahead and how were we supposed to sell/buy houses below their market value just in case our (unborn)children were ever struggling to get on the housing ladder.

Also the idea that we had charmed lives is bollocks. Anybody that says this never lived through the 70's. They were grim - especially oop north where I come from. The old industries were dying, unemployment and social unrest were rife. There were power cuts and endless strikes. Then later interest rates rose to 14% - try paying your mortgage at those rates. Women could not get a mortgage without an additional guarantee on the loan.

Most people didn't have cars and we only ever had 1 UK holiday a year. There was no technology to speak of. We didn't have central heating or a TV till I was 5 or 6 and my parents were middle class.

Expectations and opportunities were very different. Even in the 70's women were not expected to work if they had a family and the range of jobs was much more limited. University was for a select few. Gap years or exotic travel were unheard of. Jobs were not for life for the baby boomers - that is another misconception.

So yes, the baby boomers have reaped some benefits from the times they lived in but wow, how much greater are the opportunities for young people today - regardless of their gender/sexual orientation or class.

OP YABVU

Salbertina Tue 02-Jul-13 12:11:16

Matey- with you that the potential opportunities are greater now but how can they afford them or to start a proper life?? A quick cheapie hol in ibiza is great and admittedly a "luxury" unavailable to all but the richest baby boomers at the same age. However, this is a quick timeout in one's life which doesn't make up for the huge financial/housing/working challenges faced by the young. Something has gone badly wrong with gov policy when the average age of a 1st time buyer is now 40!!!

mateysmum Tue 02-Jul-13 12:19:52

Salbertina - my niece and nephew are in their 20's and my niece is getting married this year and both are struggling to get going in life, even though they have professional jobs - one works for the NHS, the other is a teacher. So I am familiar with the challenges of youth and sympathise. My point is more about the false idea the the baby boomers had it all easy in the past and the future and that today's problems are all our fault.

curryeater Tue 02-Jul-13 12:19:53

mateysmum, not to pick on you, as others have expressed this confusion too, but nobody is saying that any particular indvidual has or had an individual responsibility not to benefit from what was on offer during their life, in order to donate to future generations (as if that were possible by individuals choosing not to benefit).

What is important to note is that age groups, as a class, operate within different economic environments, and I think there is justifiable frustration in younger people that older people do not recognise this, and seem to think that they - the younger people as individuals - can solve all their problems through hard work, as individuals.

Various different govts have worked very hard not to deny certain age groups anything, on the basis that you will cause an electoral uproar by seeming to take things away (house price crash for instance) but you can apparently deny anything you like to those who have never had it (impossible to buy a house if you missed the boat due to age)

So as individuals, Mr X at the age of 60 living in a £500k house is not personally to blame for the fact that Mr Y at 30 cannot hope to buy one for £300k, which is the cheapest you can get nearish where Y works. But Mr X has benefited from policies that have disadvantaged Mr Y, deliberately, and it is very uncomfortable for him to acknowledge this, as opposed to patting himself on the back for all his hard work over the years, but there it is. It's a fact.

curryeater Tue 02-Jul-13 12:26:00

x-posted mateysmum

"the false idea the the baby boomers had it all easy in the past"

I don't think they are saying they had it easy in the past. I think they are saying that there are a lot of comfortable people now of a certain age who are enjoying a lifestyle the next generation never will. Because the time to work and save for it is now, and there is no work to be had, and before you even start to save you have to look at the insane debt

It's hard to see how young people now can psychologically buy into a causal link between work and reward. What evidence is there for this?

mateysmum Tue 02-Jul-13 12:27:18

I don't feel picked on Curry - your argument is very rational but others have not been.

thegreylady Tue 02-Jul-13 18:10:27

You are right-many of today's young people will find it hard but I can only look at my own family none of whom had super advatantages but all of whom should have a decent lifestyle when they are old.
Among my dc/sdc are a plumber, a couple of teachers, a a TA and an accountant .each couple has managed to buy [with mortgage] a house suitable for themselves and their dc.
It has taken time,hard work and not much help from us but it has been achieved and can be achieved.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 02-Jul-13 18:46:10

"thegreylady".

I totally agree. My eldest is 21 and saving for deposit for house with not far to go now. It will be a crap bomb shell that he has to do up, but we all started at the bottom and he is happy to do so. Many of his friends the same age are still relying of bank of mum and dad, living at home and behaving like teens. Some still have an allowance or are rent free shock

scottishmummy Tue 02-Jul-13 18:54:29

maybe there needs to be readjustment of attitude/expectation about property,finances
Not all adults will be home owners.Prosperous childhood doesn't automatically=one will be prosperous adult homeowner
Yes our kids will need to incur debts,maybe delay homeownership or adjust expectations

Jan49 Tue 02-Jul-13 19:41:14

I don't think they are saying they had it easy in the past. I think they are saying that there are a lot of comfortable people now of a certain age who are enjoying a lifestyle the next generation never will.

But equally, many older people experienced hardships earlier in their lives which most young people will never experience and would think intolerable. Young people today have luxuries which would have been unimaginable to older people when they were young, so maybe younger people have cushier lives now but will have to work longer.

thegreylady Wed 03-Jul-13 06:47:39

Yes more than, my dd and her dh started with a really rundown Manchester terrace which they did up and sold. They now have a Victorian semi in Shropshire. My dss and his dw stared by buying a council flat which his dw had been renting. They now own a huge house in Surrey; and my other dss an!d dw were lucky that her parents were wealthy and had bought her a tiny pad in Whitechapel which they eventually sold and after years of renting were able to buy and do up a lovely cottage in Hertfordshire.

Ledkr Wed 03-Jul-13 06:58:45

We will never have that cushy retirement period as we wil both be working till nearly 70.
I'm in my forties now and still helping out my grown up kids from time to time as jobs are scarce and low paid and they have no chance of ever buying their own homes so have all the pitfalls of renting such as having to move on or bei g ripped off deposits etc.
One of mine is also poorly so may end up back here.
We have public sector pensions which shrink each year and the average age for death in our professions may mean we will never enjoy it.
For those reasons I also live for today and intend to enjoy my life as much as possible with the money I earn.

Guerrillacrochet Wed 03-Jul-13 07:33:30

Sue I don't normally angrily post on AIBU but you surely must have realised that putting such a topic on was going to get you flamed?
A better question would have been 'AIBU to be annoyed at DH's parents spending their inheritance on themselves rather than supporting their family'.
I totally agree with Didactylos, whereyouleftit and the other posters... the older generation have worked, been through multiple recessions and frankly deserve any assets they still hold on to. But cushy? Do kindly fuck right off. We can have this conversation when elderly people aren't freezing to death in winter, or having to fight tooth and nail to have any kind of dignified care. There are more pensioners like this than those planning four cruises per year, I promise you.
The elderly, the disabled, the unemployed... what kind of fucked up country are we living it where these are acceptable targets for our ire? Seriously?
PS I did mean to be so rude.

Guerrillacrochet Wed 03-Jul-13 07:38:02

Oops just seen the second page with more excellent posts blush. My indignation made me post without reading to the end !

ConferencePear Wed 03-Jul-13 08:04:12

If pensioners are so rich why do we have one of the highest, if not the highest rate of deaths from hypothermia in Europe ? Is it to do with that generous winter fuel allowance ?

StepAwayFromTheEcclesCakes Wed 03-Jul-13 09:00:43

don't forget that when houses were £14000 wages were relative to that too. people lived within their means same as today but attitudes seemed different, my parents taught me never to get in debt, if I could not afford something to save until I could, loans and HP were not an option. today everyone wants the newest model and they want it now, they want big weddings, and a lifestyle they often cannot afford. wages are lower now too relatively so YABU I don't begrudge anyone who has earned their way to spend it however they want to and will encourage my DC to earn their way too as I was encouraged. if there is anything left over when I am gone ... well it will be a nice little bonus. if they struggle I will help out where I can but they won't be able to rely on this as I also will fund my own life too. harsh? maybe, they will cope.

curryeater Wed 03-Jul-13 10:19:26

There is a massive psychological difference between being young, having nothing, and working hard with something to look forward to; and being young, having less than nothing, and working hard with nothing to look forward to.

And I don't agree about hardship, in many ways. When I had measles in about 1978 (? thereabouts) the GP paid a home visit and was expected to. My brother was a newborn in the 70s and the MW came every day, sat and chatted. My mum had 3 or 4 days in hospital after a perfectly normal delivery and was well looked after and rested when she came home - she was expected to stay in so she could be brought meals and stay in bed resting.

Most of my friends at school had dads in blue collar jobs, mums who WOH very part time if at all, and owned 3 bed houses, and the whole family had dinner together at 6pm and had all weekend for hobbies and pastimes. We are just so strung out now. Lives like that are beyond our grasp. A smart phone just does not make up for it. Our labour does not buy us as much as it used to. My partner and I WOH between us a minimum of a 110 hour week (in good jobs) for the same standard of living I saw families with one blue collar worker having in the 70s on a 45 hour week. And we will not retire at 60 / 65. And I still suffer from pregnancy complications now my youngest is over 2, because I can't get medical attention (have tried, have been brushed off, can't find the time and energy to fight, although I know I should, but I am ALWAYS working)

And it is far far worse for those 20 years younger than me. I started work nearly 20 years ago as the most junior in a team of people. Since then I have been gradually promoted to the level of the person who in 1994 was about 5 people above me. (Different companies, equivalent teams) In that time, almost NO duties have been taken away from me. I do what I did in 1994, along with everything else at every intermediate rung. And I am on my own. When I feel like moaning about this, I remind myself that at least I have a job - the 22 year old equivalent to me back then, has nowhere to start, because one man bands like my "dept" can't hire. I would rather be me now, working, than a 22 year old in 2013.

I think we have an anachronistic cultural tendency to think the young have it easy, and the older are seasoned strivers, because it used to be true. It used to be true that anyone who was 60 or 70 had probably fought in a war, borne children at a time when many people died of it, worked down mines, survived when some of their siblings had died of childhood diseases, worked hard to get an education in their spare time when the state chucked you out of school at 14, etc etc etc. Baby boomers did none of this. Their parents fought the second world war, they were sent to university for free, they experienced incredible effortless growth of wealth if they bought property, and now they are retiring early.

As a society we need to recognise the difficulties that the young face.

boschy Wed 03-Jul-13 10:48:46

curryeater I totally applaud that post, you are so right. I am so glad that mine are still at school, not having to face the economy yet.

aftereight Wed 03-Jul-13 11:00:56

Curryeater has nailed it for me. Excellent post.

Salbertina Wed 03-Jul-13 11:03:26

Absolutely, Curryeater

Step, that's the problem - when houses cost £14k, they were proportionately hugely more affordable on the average salary! All the data on average salary and average house price proves this over a period of at least the last 30 years. Not a matter of opinion! Just in 15 years in London from my own personal example, i bought at 3x my salary and would now be unable to buy a garden shed in that area as same flat would now be 9x my 2013 equivalent salary, crazy! Sadly, i didn't keep the flat, but that's another story.

As above, regional difference a huge factor too. Much more affordable housing outside London/SE. I think gov should consider much much higher London weighting for public sector workers such as nurses, teachers.

Guerrillacrochet Wed 03-Jul-13 11:12:04

Good post curryeater and I don't disagree with your comments... I don't think the young have it easy but I don't think all babyboomers have it cushy either, which was the OP (and she was referencing a lack of inheritance, which is the least of the problems of the young tbh). It is a shame that the discussion becomes so reductive- just because young people have a hard time doesn't mean it isn't bad for a lot of older people. It's pretty shit for a lot of people at the moment.

givemeaboost Wed 03-Jul-13 11:38:52

whilst I have no problem with the older generation having things easier(as some not all do) what I disagree with is A) overs 60s being excempt from the new bedroom&council tax rules and B) well off elderly getting things like the winter fuel allowance, it should be means tested.

In regards to A people will and are playing the system, someone I know has split with his wife(they had 6 kids, most left home now) she has been moved to a 2 bed house with youngest child, whilst hes rattling around in a highly sought after big three bed house in the centre of town, the HA cant do anything as hes 70 now so excempt from bedroom tax so wont have to pay anything to continue living there, now that makes me lividangry!!!

I live in a area with a higher than average elderly population and was basically told (re;council tax) that we are effectively subsidising them as they don't have to pay, but the council still has a budget to meet, why is it I have to now pay a sum every month(currently on benefits) which I can barely afford whilst everyone on my road doesn't have to pay anythingsad it is not fair!

IvanaCake Wed 03-Jul-13 11:39:35

YANBU at all. My parents both retired a few years ago on final salary pensions. They have 4 foreign holidays a year and never have to worry about money. If they did need to raise some cash they are sitting in a house worth 300k.

Retirement for DH and I will be nothing like this. We are early 30s and don't even have pensions (can't afford to pay into them).

Viviennemary Wed 03-Jul-13 12:09:31

I think houses were a lot more affordable in the 1980's than they are now. And it was a lot easier to move to a better house then. Now the gap is so huge between the house you are in and a better house it's just not possible to bridge unless you move to a cheaper area. I think house prices are mainly to blame for people finding it hard when they earn a reasonable amount.

digerd Wed 03-Jul-13 12:24:09

Ivana

Do your parents have UK pensions and if so, which jobs get final salary pensions?

frogspoon Wed 03-Jul-13 13:30:21

I think you're generalising, some older people really struggle. However almost everyone my age (mid 20s) is struggling, except those who are helped out by their parents.

House prices have gone up astronomically, way out of proportion with increase in salary.

I do the same job as my mum (teacher). My parents' first house (3 bed semi, outer London) cost the equivalent of about 3 years of my mum's salary 30 years ago.

To buy a an equivalent sized house in the same area would cost me about 10 years salary.

I accept that my parents have every right to enjoy their hard earned cash, they have both worked hard and deserve to spend it. But I do feel they genuinely did have it easier when they were my age.

Buddy80 Wed 03-Jul-13 13:47:09

Curryeater spot on!

LessMissAbs Wed 03-Jul-13 13:57:02

I think its a shane that we now live in a country where, even if you are an intelligent high achiever who does well at school and university and succeeds in getting quite a good job, whether or not you that hard work buys you a nice house and lifestyle depends more on how much money your parents will give you to help.

It used to be that if you worked hard and were clever, it guaranteed a nice lifestyle. That is no longer the case.

That's pretty poor social mobility for a first world country.

I also find it ironic that the people who decided students must borrow to fund their tertiary education were those who not only got it free themselves but would also have got maintenance grants if they had needed.

Kat101 Wed 03-Jul-13 14:01:38

Its the non-understanding of the difficulties faced by the current younger generations that can be a problem. My ILs recently gave BIL a large deposit to get on the housing ladder, they "couldnt understand why he hadn't bought a house" and it "just wasnt the way they did it". Even when explained to them, they still didnt get it. This house will be far too small when BIL has kids, but ILs persuaded him that the house will rise in value short term and he can sell it on and make a profit to buy his next much bigger house. This is in an area of high unemployment and low static house prices.

Good luck to them, I think they're gonna need it sad

boschy Wed 03-Jul-13 14:07:49

we live in a house that is really too big for us and in which we have a reasonable amount of equity. however for various reasons it would be hard to sell (tho it is lovely).

we are now thinking that actually we need to hang on here, because we would have enough space for both DDs to stay here/move back in if they need to post school/uni/apprenticeships/whatever. and if they needed to come back with boyfriend/babies then it could be manageable.

this is not what I want to happen, I want them to forge their own paths and for DH and I to be able to enjoy life on our own terms.

however, I dont think the economic climate will be in their favour for a good few years.

Salbertina Wed 03-Jul-13 14:08:12

Less- interesting point about social mobility...

Indeed, successive govs esp Labour gradually eroded the very grammar school system which had given many ministers a leg up in the first place. Hypocritical and blinkered thinking at its worst!

I believe social mobility is less now than in the 1970s hmm

Biscuitsareme Wed 03-Jul-13 14:10:18

great post, curryeater.

My parents were both teachers. They are now retired and have good pensions and nice houses. They fail to understand why OH and I 'don't take the kids on holiday' and are anxious about our (patchy) pension savings. They just assume that in a couple of years we'll be able to move into a bigger house and 'arrive'. It's frustrating.

curryeater Wed 03-Jul-13 14:50:02

I think the portrayal of the 70s as a dismal, doomy time is a deliberate strategy to glorify the Right who took over in the 80s. The unions had worked hard to gain some security and some comfort for the working classes and taking it away had to be justified. Actually the 70s was a great time to be a child. It was in the 80s (in the NW) where you started to really see, and suffer the effects of, real poverty. (In my case suffer vicariously: we did not get poor but we lived amongst broken windows, boarded up parades of shops, high crime, crappy school facilities, etc etc). It was not uncommon in the "loadsamoney" decade, where I am from, to see children without shoes. And yet this was the "solution" to the "problem" of the 70s. It is pure Orwellian doublespeak. the "wrong" people had money. Only a tiny bit - only enough for a house and a caravan holiday - but it had to be taken away.

oldwomaninashoe Wed 03-Jul-13 15:17:47

YABVU!!!
I am in my early 60's and even if I work till I am 65 my occupational pension together with my state pension will not cover my basic living expenses and pay my mortgage!
I will have to sell my home to live, moving area away from family and friends to get something considerably cheaper. The adult children that I still have living at home are on such meagre wages they will never be able to afford to buy and will only be able to rent with the help of benefits.
I don't have/cant afford foreign holidays now , like many youngsters do, and I certainly wont be able to afford them when I'm on my (public sector) pension.
I have worked all my life since I left school ai 18, commuting at my age and with age related health issues is increasingly difficult.
Sorry OP I deserve to retire, but I can assure you I won't be living in the lap of luxury!

I think the OP is making a huge generalisation, however there are some pensioners who have it very easy.

My inlaws were civil servants and took early retirement on very nice pensions. Shortly afterwards FIL's mother died and left them everything. They are now in their 70s and still living the life of Riley, taking their winter fuel allowance as spending money on their January cruise envy

OTOH I know a lot of elderly people who are struggling to make ends meet on pension credit and who would never leave the house if it wasn't for their free bus passes. So I realise that not everyone is like my inlaws.

Latara Wed 03-Jul-13 15:43:28

My parents are 64 & 65 but they are divorced and therefore both have to carry on working despite health problems - to pay for accommodation and the bills.

cory Wed 03-Jul-13 15:53:01

One problem is that we see the cushy lives of the older generation with hindsight.

And with hindsight, WW2 came to an end, austerity came to an end and a welfare system was put in place that my FIL's generation can hardly have dream of when they got married in the 1940's. They didn't know that.

With hindsight, England climbed out of the 1980's recession, the miners' strikes passed into memory and other industries were found which provided work, employment rose again. The young who were just setting out in life didn't know that.

I got married in the early 90's. The reason we got our house cheap was the recession- which meant that countless other families were repossessed when their mortgages could no longer be paid. Things got better after that but we didn't know that was going to happen.

And we have no idea what is round the corner for the youngsters setting out today either.

Salbertina Wed 03-Jul-13 16:37:20

True, Cory but demographics have changed dramatically- vast number of people are 65+ now compared to numbers of young people to support them. Far, far fewer people survived long into retirement way back when. This trend is unsustainable and unaffordable hence the current cuts which are only going to get worse! The above we DO know, sadly,

lougle Wed 03-Jul-13 19:22:40

My Dad worked in Oil and Gas - 12 hour shifts in the desert in Egypt, or countries like Iran, Oman, Brunei, etc. Sleeping in cabins.

He had 3 months working 7 days per week, 12 hours per day, followed by 3 weeks at home. He would be regularly put at risk of radioactive isotopes and once had to be flown home for testing because someone took a cap off a canister that they shouldn't.

Job security was abysmal. Contracts offered by word of mouth and by phone with no notice at all - take it, or we move on to the next guy.

Once back in the UK, he was regularly made redundant, as job after job collapsed. He was in a critical role (quality assurance) and could sink any remaining assets if he so chose, so he was told his job was gone and escorted from the office within 30 minutes.

I remember Dad taking a phone call after a long period of unemployment. He was offered a job which would mean that we would have less money than on income support. He took the job because he wanted to work.

The 70s/80s were not the 'heyday' that people speak of, for everyone.

CleverlyConcealed Wed 03-Jul-13 19:36:00

The 'older, retired generation' could be anything from 55 to folk in their 80s and 90s and there's a massive difference in how they are living.

You needed to be more specific in your rant OP.

storynanny Wed 03-Jul-13 22:42:07

"yet the elderly did get an inheritance"
not sure how many of the "older" generation inherited property or much money. Renting was the way most working class people lived pre war.
My parents are in their 80's, live comfortably but definitely didn't inherit money.
Inheritance is not a right. I don't expect to inherit from them as their hard earned money will pay for their care as they age. I don't expect to have much for my children to inherit and they don't expect it.
Just try your best to enjoy every day, those elderly people have earned the right to do what they please with their money.

thegreylady Wed 03-Jul-13 23:56:45

My parents didn't leave an inheritance. They were council house tenants from 1950 until Mum died in 1993. My dad was an invalid from 1955 until his death in 1990 (MS). Mum had two jobs, she worked in a factory canteen all week and on a market stall at weekends. I was an only child so never really knew hardship though many did in the pit village where I lived. I am 69 now and dh is 77, we are both grammar school educated. I think university fees were a big mistake as was abolishing grammar schools. I also agree that many of today's young people will never have the security that we have, however I feel YABU to resent what can't be helped.

McGeeDiNozzo Thu 04-Jul-13 05:50:58

It's not true that the older generation have it too cushy. But some of them do make assumptions about job-hunting and house-hunting that are, to put it mildly, fanciful.

The real problem is that artificial house price inflation has hugely outstripped wage inflation. That's not the boomers' fault, although some of them have been terribly lucky to have benefited from it.

Badvoc Thu 04-Jul-13 08:28:38

My parents weren't left anything...other than my GM with Parkinson's to care for along with 3 young children.
They still live in council accommodation and therefore my siblings and I will get no inheritance. I would far rather my parents spend their money and enjoy themselves now.
My pils are comfortable and own their own home but they could both easily live for another 20 years and so any inheritance will be used for care I imagine.
I am not expecting anything from anyone.

LessMissAbs Thu 04-Jul-13 13:29:06

I'm always surprised to hear that people used to expect jobs for life. I know so many people whove been made redundant, and not just once. so when I hear of men who were made redundant in the eighties as relatively young healthy men from traditional industries, I find it hard to concieve that some of them never worked again, and that some of them saw not wanting to move to another area a valid reason not to work.

I think the workplace is so different now. Did they have so much performance assessment then? I've got friends who were pushed out of their jobs, even though they did nothing wrong, because they weren't percieved as high flyers. You're on shaky ground now in a lot of jobs if you think you can get away with just working 9 - 5.

ARealDame Thu 04-Jul-13 15:12:03

Oh yes, they have it cushy. If they managed to keep a reasonably paid job, and buy a home, they're laughing.

Its just an historical blip, due to post-war boom.

I don't resent them for it, exactly. As a result, many "ordinary" people had comfortable lives and old-age, perhaps for the first time in history.

But sometimes it does feel wrong, compared to other groups. I'm not sure they're all that generous in return, which is the main question for me. Are they?

allmycats Thu 04-Jul-13 16:17:33

My father, who worked in a nationalised industry just does not understand that when your child is of a working age you cannot take them down to work with you, speak to the manager who will start them next week and then they will have a job for life.
he thinks that if you want a council house you put your name down when you are about to be married and by the time your wedding comes about you have been offered a flat/house - which you will then keep until you die.
He thinks 'it is all talk' and even when he sees his own grandchildren struggling to get work.
he was of a generation that left school, worked where their dad worked and then did national service, came out, went back to their previous employment and just carried on as if nothing had happened. he also cannot understand why people who work 'night shifts' don't do a bit of work on the side on the side during those days cos in his day 1/2 of them slept whilst them others watched out for them and the next turn around they returned the favour !

MaybeBentley Thu 04-Jul-13 18:28:14

Anything my parents have will go on care home fees. They will end up in the same local care home (hopefully) as someone without a £250,000 house to sell to pay for it, so no luxury care home. They worked hard all their lives and should enjoy their home and a little travel while they can, as soon (already) they are too dependent to do it. If you begrudge hem that I am really disappointed at your attitude to others.

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